I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
What crisis?
/WH
Deficits don't matter.
/Darth
crisis is the greek word for decision
Subprime mortgages are giving homes to those folks who are better off now.
/Babs
Hi, Spinoza, whose decision tho?
and butterflies are named Minerva! at http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com
Ruth-
Probably Cassandra.
I was looking at YouTubes about Arlington, VA and I note that a number of them are trying to sell specific houses or condos. Has this been going on for some time or is it new?
For those of you who were too frickin lazy to nominate either Ruth or I as the name for the new butterfly, you're now too late.
Thanks a whole helluva lot.
Also, since people don't eat or use fuel, there is no inflation, either.
Probably Cassandra.
spinoza, non ridere, non luger
Oh that broad, no one will take her seriously.
"Crisis" is derived from an Indo-European root meaning "place your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye".
Say, if we get to ten, twenty million homeless, pretty soon you're talking about a real problem.
"Mortgage" is derived from the Spanish word Mort, meaning, you're dead meat now.
Say, if we get to ten, twenty million homeless, pretty soon you're talking about a real problem.
David Derbes | 11.24.07 - 3:06 pm |
The best barometer of the economy are the lines at the 99 Cents Only store.
Bums are now asking for handouts in Euros only.
Hi, Diane, I think we get dibs on the next undiscovered box turtle, don't we?
Who are they asking? Because I suspect if you asked some people in the administration the answer would be Crisis? What crisis?
Bums are now asking for handouts in Euros only.
NSA | 11.24.07 - 3:07 pm | #
Heh. LOL
"We haven't faced a downturn like this since the Depression," said Bill Gross, chief investment officer of PIMCO, the world's biggest bond fund. He's not suggesting anything like those terrible times -- but, as an expert on the global credit crisis, he speaks with authority.
"Its effect on consumption, its effect on future lending attitudes, could bring us close to the zero line in terms of economic growth," he said. "It does keep me up at night."
Here's a link to Gross's November Investment Outlook.
Say, if we get to ten, twenty million homeless, pretty soon you're talking about a real problem.
David Derbes | 11.24.07 - 3:06 pm |
Only if they're registered Dems
Bums are now asking for handouts in Euros only.
NSA
Food stamps in loonies?
from below:
Steve, you're older and wiser than I am (older for sure! ), but I do not think anyone to the left of Milton Friedman will one day pine for the good old days of the second Bush junta.
Oh, I am not too sure. They are already rewriting the Iraq war. "The invasion was a success. The occupation was the problem. And that was Rumsfeld's fault." Believe me, in two to three years the whole war will be blamed on Pelosi and Reid, and Bush 43 will be painted as a martyr who tried to wrestle with Saddam and social security and went down fighting. Stabbed-in-the-back memoirs will blow out of west wing assholes like bats out of a cave.
Answer to a great question from Steve:
Frankly, what good will a Dem sweep in 08 be if they're unwilling to clean out the Augean stables?
steve simels
-----------------
Here is the question. Can we prove that "cleaning out the Augean Stables" is a GOOD thing for THEM?
Yes we can agree it is good for the country, but politically I'll bet they can't see it as a good thing. Think about how Chris Matthews STILL sees the world. He (and the villagers) WANT that bipartisan, "Tip O'Neill Held Reagan's hand in the Hospital" moment again and the Democrats are the only ones willing to be bi-partisan. The Republicans showed that they didn't give a rip. To them bi-partisan meant that they get what they want and the democrats agree.
I must be PROVED to Democrats that it is ESSENTIAL and that falling into a "We all need to heal" is bull because if the cut is infected we need to remove the splinter or it will never heal."
By the way, that might be a metaphor we can start using AGAINST the "We all need to Heal" metaphor.
I think that Obama is going to be the biggest "We need to Heal" candidate.
Who is the LEAST "We need to Heal" candidate?
Edwards? Dodd? Dennis?
"Its effect on consumption, its effect on future lending attitudes, could bring us close to the zero line in terms of economic growth," he said. "It does keep me up at night."
What, the effects of the perfect storm of the last 7+years finally getting through to the financial community?
How droll.
Home buyers were rather silly to assume that the Bush economy would come with middle class jobs.
Bums are now asking for handouts in Euros only.
NSA
Perle should get a damn job.
Liberal is not a dirty word!
...as in moderate meaning status quo and if we went along with that we'd be kissing corp ass just as we are now.
Nancy Willing
from the last thread - I'd just like to point out that LIBERAL means: fair, open-minded and generous (Webster's). Are those not American values as well? Ask the next wingnut who use the word Liberal as a slur.
What I hate about these posts is that they attract Econ102.
Say, if we get to ten, twenty million homeless, pretty soon you're talking about a real problem.
David Derbes | 11.24.07 - 3:06 pm |
Only if they're registered Dems
Difficult to vote when you can't prove that you live in the district.
Oh, I am not too sure. They are already rewriting the Iraq war.
I really don't like the trend I'm seeing of broken down republicans turning into columnists (rove & santorum). They'll be in a great position to rewrite history. Or at least blow enough smoke to confuse the average voter.
When the movie is filled entirely with bad guys, it is hard to know who to cheer for: so most people simply do not attend. To a certain extent this crisis is like that. The unscrupulous lenders are hard to feel sorry for. The consumers who were so ignorant that they borrow way the hell more money than they could ever hope to pay back are not really very sympathetic. The borrowers who hoped to flip the houses and make some money for nothing are the least sympathetic of all.
I think there are so good people who got caught in the machinations of the bullshit: let's help them but for the rest of them?
NTodd,
Did you ever find out what that email was that was being discussed elsewhere?
Who is the LEAST "We need to Heal" candidate?
Edwards? Dodd? Dennis?
spocko | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:10 pm | #
Kucinich of course. But I think the lesson of the Clinton years is that it is wrong for liberals to give the Democrats too much slack. Those guys should have been feeling the heat and seeing primary challenges from the first cave.
NTodd, it seems we need a refresher course in Econ 102, especially the risk management part.
What I hate about these posts is that they attract Econ102.
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:11 pm | #
Gilly's Pa was an Econ Professor. Never made more than $30K a year, IIRC.
Stabbed-in-the-back memoirs will blow out of west wing assholes like bats out of a cave.
I'm so gonna steal that line.
Did you ever find out what that email was that was being discussed elsewhere?
Yes. Not a biggie, but I'll forward...
"I'd just like to point out that LIBERAL means: fair, open-minded and generous (Webster's). Are those not American values as well? Ask the next wingnut who use the word Liberal as a slur."
word meanings change. the average american hears liberal and they more think tax and spend ought to come before that. the right has done a great job demonizing the word. No point in pretending that's not true.
This is a job that frightens me in so many, many ways....
Gallery of History the nation's leader in the sale of original historical documents is looking for a Writer/Archivist/Cataloguer for its Las Vegas headquarters.
Candidates must have a solid understanding of history and current events. Candidates should possess the ability to write concise historical backgrounds. The candidate should also demonstrate skills in developing and communicating saleable descriptive headlines.
Must be computer literate with a solid understanding of MS Word, Outlook and Excel.
What, the effects of the perfect storm of the last 7+years finally getting through to the financial community?
If I remember correctly, Gross has been a skeptic for some time.
There can be little doubt that we have an American hegemony. But while the United States rules the waves as well as turf and sky, I'm not so sure that we are, or perhaps will be the economic powerhouse we once were. Three years of stock market declines, a 20% devaluation of the dollar over 10 months, and an inability to serve as the global economy's locomotive despite massive monetary and fiscal stimulation suggests America's "shining city on a hill" may have lost some of its sheen of late. The US of A it seems is becoming less wealthy by the minute as foreign investment is withheld and in some cases redirected to Chinese and other more attractive ports of call. Economically, we may have begun a process of hegemonic decay and if true, at some point we will have to put that in our Funk & Wagnalls and smoke it.
February 2003
Oh, Hecate, I see you got it. Nevermind.
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher | 11.24.07 - 3:14 pm | #
But the dems are notoriously bad at framing political arguments in their favor.
Left and Right as a description of spheres of political beliefs are bologna too! i.e. Republics have mortgaged country's future after a Democrat had left a large surplus that was created with a simple pay as you go philosophy.
When Dems were in the Whitehouse Oil was 12$ a barrel - with a Republic it is 99$ - odd that, yes?
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar | Homepage
Uh-oh...a good job located in a less than prime location.
I'll light a candle for you, GWPDA.
NTodd,
Yeah, just wondered about the backstory. Work has been interfering w/ my blog reading lately. I hate it when that happens.
"But the dems are notoriously bad at framing political arguments in their favor."
I know. And that above all is the skill the left needs to learn. That might well be happening as we speak - I think we'll only know for sure looking back on all this.
Gilly's Pa was an Econ Professor. Never made more than $30K a year, IIRC.
Gilly Gonzylon 11.24.07 - 3:13 pm
----
This is what my wingnut relatives had to say about an econ professor that I praised who also didn't make a lot of money.
"Really? Then he was crummy econ professor if he couldn't make some real money. How could you trust someone who was teaching about money if he couldn't make money? Couldn't he get some business consulting contracts on the side? Sit on a few board of directors?
You know what they say, those who can't do teach, those who can't teach, teach econ. If you laid all the Econ professors end to end you still couldn't reach a conclusion. HA. Ha. It's just a joke! I'm sure you econ professor is a nice man, you liberals really don't have a sense of humor."
/These statements come from my relatives, they are not mine.
Does anyone know if politicians read the blogs ?
Winning where? Spreading our joy and happiness alles uber.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_200...6/
112407Y.shtml
I'll light a candle for you, GWPDA.
Diane C. Barking-Mad
I don't think I'll apply. "The Gallery of History" in the Gallery of History Plaza, next to Osco and Peter Piper Pizza.
The Associated Press asks:
Have We Seen Worse of Mortgage Crisis?
um, how about "worst", not "worse"?
spocko | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:18 pm | #
Yeah, I know. I was channeling something I heard Ross Perot say in 1992.
Does anyone know if politicians read the blogs ?
I've heard that Elizabeth Edwards does.
how about closing my fucking tags?
/These statements come from my relatives, they are not mine.
spocko
Is it really necessary to channel my dead father?
What I hate about these posts is that they attract Econ102.
NTodd
Heh, you missed mimi this a.m. call us all Hatriots. Except Barry. Barry she likes.
I don't think I'll apply. "The Gallery of History" in the Gallery of History Plaza, next to Osco and Peter Piper Pizza.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar
"The disturbing conclusion is that despite a universal desire to 'succeed' in Afghanistan, the country is in grave danger of becoming a divided state. The Taliban are the de facto authority in significant portions of territory in the south. Exploiting public frustration over poverty and inflammatory US-led counter narcotics policies, the Taliban are gaining increasing political legitimacy in the minds of the Afghan people."
I believe this cycle has occurred in the past.
"Is it really necessary to channel my dead father?|"
and mine, for that matter.
Heh, you missed mimi this a.m. call us all Hatriots. Except Barry. Barry she likes.
ql vaginal American | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:20 pm | #
Uh oh. Ntodd now has penis envy!
Spinoza. I too will steal this line.
Stabbed-in-the-back memoirs will blow out of west wing assholes like bats out of a cave.
Heh, you missed mimi this a.m. call us all Hatriots. Except Barry. Barry she likes.
[sobs]
She always liked Barry best. She has a thing for pilots.
[runs from room, throws self on bed, bites pillow]
Well, I'm getting ready to head for Gomorrah on the Hudson, where as is my wont I'll be quaffing elitist chardonnay blah blah blah...you know the drill.
Have fun in my absence, and when I return much later this evening -- snockered, one assumes -- be kind to me.
No point in pretending that's not true.
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher
Quite right, but can we not reclaim it by re-defining it's terms every time we are confronted with said bias? He who defines the terms wins the argument -
Heh, you missed mimi this a.m. call us all Hatriots. Except Barry. Barry she likes.
Oh, I was hoping she'd given up and left for good. Along w/ her various alter egos.
"when I return much later this evening -- snockered, one assumes -- be kind to me."
tonight was going to be the night of my quarterly bender. diagnosis of an ulcer rules that out, dammit
I could probably go mow the lawn or something. Make a cake. Smoked turkey pate.
Maybe a nap?
Have to go out and run errands, which I guess is just as well since the "We Need to Heal" shuck is so unbearably lame and bogus that it makes my nose bleed if I contemplate it for more than a few seconds.
It's really such self-serving bullshit, whether it's expressed as faux Lincolnesque high-mindedness, or as the inevitable "common-sense" politics.
In the latter case, I'm thinking of a Bill Clinton interview in which he unapologetically and righteously explained that yes, his administration made a deliberate policy decision to put open DOJ investigations involving Iran-Contra and the S&L crisis on the (way) back burner.
Pursuing such matters seemed contrary to their goal of building a bipartisan consensus and a less conflicted, working government. Let bygones be bygones. Exactly what I expect from Obama & Hillary.
"Quite right, but can we not reclaim it by re-defining it's terms every time we are confronted with said bias? He who defines the terms wins the argument -"
we can we should and I think will. However, we're not there yet and need to also work with what we have.
Does anyone know if politicians read the blogs ?
Gilly Gonzylon
Yes.
"Maybe a nap?"
a motion for a nap is always in order.
Does anyone know if politicians read the blogs ?
Gilly Gonzylon | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:18 pm |
Yes. Their staff does and then they tell them stuff like, "The blogs went crazy over this." Or "The blogs loved it."
And you need to understand who they read and who they will quote. So if they are reading Instapundit and Powerline ("Time's blog of the Year") you will get a very different understanding of "the blogs."
Also I think that people need to understand the power of search and blogs as related to the politicians.
I would love to teach a course to blogger on why understanding search engines is important to getting your message through to people.
I'm a Hatriot. I'm wearing a bowler.
"Exactly what I expect from Obama & Hillary."
and what you will get, I think, from almost any dem.
Cliff Schecter needs to hang out the shingle to teach the dems how to frame an issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7...h?v=7c-
AlkHH1U0
Anybody from out in eastern Canada here? If so could you please tell me what time it is?
"This example illustrates the distress many homeowners are in or will find themselves in: A subprime adjustable-rate mortgage on a $400,000 home could have payments of about $2,200 a month, with borrowers paying 6.5 percent, interest only. When the teaser period expires, that payment becomes $4,000, with the homeowner paying 12 percent and now having to come up with principal as well as interest."
I just don't understand why anyone would agree to such a loan, other than being conned into it.
Anybody from out in eastern Canada here? If so could you please tell me what time it is?
Nuts! | 11.24.07 - 3:27 pm | #
Milk in a Bag
I just don't understand why anyone would agree to such a loan, other than being conned into it.
Richard
Half the people have an IQ below 100.
Milk in a Bag
Gilly Gonzylon
Sheeps stomachs!
I just don't understand why anyone would agree to such a loan, other than being conned into it.
Richard
They believed they would be able to sell at 25% profit in three years and never have to worry.
Half the people have an IQ below 100.
lipreader | 11.24.07 - 3:29 pm | #
136, but I still feel dumb!
Sheeps!
I just don't understand why anyone would agree to such a loan, other than being conned into it.
Richard
They -meant- to resell the house or, were really, really going to refinance, or, figured the price would actually go down. They were asked "how long do you intend to stay in the house? Less than five years?" When they agreed to that idea, they were then sold on what amounted to a short term lease based on the idea that they'd be out of there and gone, with a nice little profit, before the chickens came home to roost.
evening moonbats
"I just don't understand why anyone would agree to such a loan, other than being conned into it."
--Richard
The only reason I can think of is that the lender quoted the percentage, but didn't give the borrower the $ amount increase--and the borrower didn't stop to figure it out.
Excuse me folks, but I didn't fall for the charade and I haven't missed a month's payment EVER on my mortgage.
Please explain to me why I should bail out (1) biog banks who lent to people who couldn't pay and (2) people who thought that they deserved a house they couldn't pay for.
Just a question. I mean, capitalism works when it rewards rational economic decision-making.
I made rational decisions and now I am supposed to pay for those who did not, both on Wall Street and on Main Street?
Besides, the "market" protects consumers from bad businesses. That's why we don't need the right to sue them.
Terrorism: getting the balance right
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:30 pm | #
exactly.
the bubble is NEVER going to burst, you know.
there was a bubble in silver and gold in the early 80s. my father made a killing cause when he was advised to get out he got out. He knew that bubbles don't go forever. seems lots of homeowners didn't.
If you took out a sub prime in LA in 2001 and sold out in 2004 or 2005, you probably earned about 70% in profit.
Relax, all we have to do is pass all our problems off to Hillary.
"I just don't understand why anyone would agree to such a loan, other than being conned into it."
--Richard
Saw a news piece on a 22 year old part time web designer who had 5 houses in the US. Needless to say, not anymore.
Just a question. I mean, capitalism works when it rewards rational economic decision-making.
Just ask all those Enron employees!
Please explain to me why I should bail out (1) biog banks who lent to people who couldn't pay and (2) people who thought that they deserved a house they couldn't pay for.
I always love that second point. These people didn't *deserve* a house, thus we should have no compassion for people who were never educated by our system about how this stuff works and were thus taken advantage of. Congrats on being smart about this _a priori_ whilst these other saps weren't.
Aussie Election Shock
Moonbootica, Heterodox | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:34 pm | #
John Howard = Moe Howard = Stooge
"I made rational decisions and now I am supposed to pay for those who did not, both on Wall Street and on Main Street?"
--drfranklives
If there had been regulation, but there wasn't...
If you took out a sub prime in LA in 2001 and sold out in 2004 or 2005, you probably earned about 70% in profit.
trifecta | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:33 pm | #
And inspired a bunch of suckers to try the same trick (including perhaps, yourself).
I want the Australian election officials to count the votes here in 2008.
I made rational decisions and now I am supposed to pay for those who did not, both on Wall Street and on Main Street?
I haven't heard anyone suggest that you bail out anyone. However, the govt. can step in and change the laws to help keep people in their homes. I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a neighborhood full of empty homes (empty, that is, until the squatters move in) and homeless people and desperate people who are forced to turn to crime just so that i can sit smugly in my home and congratulate myself for making my mortgage payments -- since I never had a major medical problem that made me lose my job and thus my insurance and thus my home.
Just a question. I mean, capitalism works when it rewards rational economic decision-making.
drfranklives
Nice theory you got there - where do you factor nepotism and cronyism into that equation?
Not all, but MOST of those getting hit with the resets were betting. They bet that rates would stay low, and thus the reset wouldn't be a problem or, more likely, they were betting that the price would continue to go up ao that they could refinance or sell to a profit or with substantial "equity" that they didn't earn.
"136, but I still feel dumb!|"
High IQ people do make mistakes all the time. lawd knows i fuck something up daily.
Please explain to me why I should bail out
Because this is a society that takes care of the enfeebled and idiotic, rather than throws them into the street. Or at least that's pretty much how it was set up. You'll thank the one "you" bail out when you need a hand.
Pope Benedict XVI has created 23 new cardinals at a solemn ceremony in St Peter's Basilica at the Vatican.
The pontiff gave each cardinal a red hat, a symbolic reminder that they must be willing to shed their blood for the Christian faith.
They now join more than 100 other cardinals who form a college which will one day choose the Pope's successor.
But five of the appointees are not be eligible to enter the elite conclave because they are over 80 years of age.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ope/
7110813.stm
I wonder if the WH will ignore Rudd as they do Zap in Spain.
Just a question. I mean, capitalism works when it rewards rational economic decision-making.
Wow.
Such a profound statement.
Really.
I am in awe.
I have posted, a couple of times now, the idea that we should not be lowering the discount rate but increasing it. The rationale is that by doing this we would be strengthening the dollar. By strengthening the dollar we would be easing the pressure on increasing oil prices and might even force them down easing the inflationary spiral that seems to be (though it is unreported as of yet) increasing.
I am limited in perspective: is this worth pursuing? I can see little sense in lowering the rate if it only causes everything else to cost more.
Not all, but MOST of those getting hit with the resets were betting. They bet that rates would stay low, and thus the reset wouldn't be a problem or, more likely, they were betting that the price would continue to go up ao that they could refinance or sell to a profit or with substantial "equity" that they didn't earn.
drfranklives | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:35 pm | #
Where do you get that "most" from?
I don't want to live in a neighborhood full of empty homes (empty, that is, until the squatters move in) and homeless people and desperate people who are forced to turn to crime just so that i can sit smugly in my home and congratulate myself for making my mortgage payments
There's the rub. It's not just about you: it's about your community and the ripple effect.
Also consider that 2/3 of our economy is supposedly driven by consumer spending. If you skullfuck the consumers, you skullfuck the economy, and yourself in the end.
Nice theory you got there - where do you factor nepotism and cronyism into that equation?
Nuts!
Nepotism and cronyism are not taught in the 100 level Econ classes freepers have heard about.
NTodd, you intentionally mistook what I wrote.
I said thought they deserved a house they could not afford.
of course all deserve housing. But do all deserve mcMansions in Alexandria? Would it have hurt some of those folks to settle for home with only 3 1/2 baths and one garage?
I've said it before. At least half the clerks and secretaries I supervised couldn't read a six digit number. Really. I had to explain to my secretary, with a graphic, why buying a monthly metro card wasn't always such a good idea unless there were no holidays and she never planned on getting sick. I tried to show another woman what 3 and 1/4 looked like with a ruler. She just couldn't see it the minute I started to talk fractions. I had to re-figure a quilting pattern for her.
Now try explaining an interest only mortgage with an adjustable rate. They will sit there and nod their heads like they understand when they have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.
could refinance or sell to a profit or with substantial "equity" that they didn't earn.
drfranklives
Ah. It's the 'unearned' and undeserved profit you want to make sure doesn't go to those of whom you, personally do not approve.
Suck it up, jack. Life ain't fair and sometimes, sometimes, folks who aren't as good as you are aren't as a result thrown down a well to die a violent and nasty death.
Gilly Cliff Schecter needs to hang out the shingle to teach the dems how to frame an issue.
He has a shingle! He can teach people.
(I met him at YearlyKos) nice guy, super smart. Funny too.
But the people who need to be taught don't WANT to be taught. And the producers of FOX and MSNBC want people like Colmes that they can beat up.
A few democrats were able to kick the ass of some of the republican operatives but they weren't invited back. And that is actually a problem with Cliff. He kicks serious ass, is funny too, but they producers hear from the other people "I don't want to go on opposite Cliff."
It really pisses me off. I actually offered to help people in this area but since I'm just a blogger and not a serious professional political consultant I don't get the calls, they call people like Bob Schrum or Donna Brazil.
Not all, but MOST of those getting hit with the resets were betting.
Got ANY support for that?
"Not all, but MOST of those getting hit with the resets were betting."
heard a commentator back in the 80s talking about wall street - said it's not a place to watch business at work - it was a casino full of people betting.
seems to me that's our economy. bet right and win bet wrong and sleep in a cardboard box.
Where do you get that "most" from?
Where all good stats come from: his dog's anus.
meanwhile, "progressives" should do the right and proper thing to preserve and protect Planet Gore:
sterilize yourselves, pronto.
Good afternoon.
I have, as a gift to all of you, some Public Enemy w/ Herb Alpert.
Watch, dammit!
Please explain to me why I should bail out (1) biog banks who lent to people who couldn't pay and (2) people who thought that they deserved a house they couldn't pay for.
For purely selfish reasons. If you don't agree to do that, we might well get something almost as bad as the Great Depression. The link Atrios put up explains how the waves spread out from those defaults into the wider community, until one day they touch you and your job.
GEPDA I agree, and I don't mind bailing people out when they are not responsible for where they are. To the extent anyone was duped or defrauded, then by all means, we should help. To the extent they are the victim of circumstance, say losing a job, medical bills, etc., then we should certainly do somtehting for them (such as amending the idiotic bankruptcy bill passed two years ago).
But I know people who bought three houses in Florida, thinking they'd get to turn them before their mortgages reset.
That, my friends, is a gamble.
Oops. bubbles pop.
there is a moral economic reason for supporting those less well off than you.
the welfare state and as a result of this state intervention is the price vulgar libertarians fuckheads pay for the policy of land enclosures
the taking away of public land and therefore a way for the public to support themseleves created landless masses who ended up in the cities and when they lost a job or were unable to work they had little visible means of support
if that makes sense
sterilize yourselves, pronto.
Lubyanka
Fortunately, all signs point toward an increasingly liberal population in America. You can't reproduce by fucking young boys. That's gonna hurt the GOP.
Now try explaining an interest only mortgage with an adjustable rate. They will sit there and nod their heads like they understand when they have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.
Many, many othe3rwqise intelligent people can't do the maths.
My wife argued with me several years back about the mortgage - she wanted a 15 year, I got a 30 year and pay it off like a 15. She didn't think you could do that.
She's one of the smartest people I know when one removes math from the equation.
and its so bloody typical to blame the poor for their own misfortunes
i mean it goes back to the oft held myth that the poor were poor because it was their own fault
the patronizing attitude is just awful, they need to stop it!
NTodd, you intentionally mistook what I wrote.
Wow, now you're a fucking mindreader.
I said thought they deserved a house they could not afford.
And you clearly mistook what I wrote about educating people so they would know they can't afford that house. And your compassion, it's still oh so overwhelming.
who's blaming the poor?
You can't reproduce by fucking young boys. That's gonna hurt the GOP.
lipreader
I must correct that statement: Lindsay Roberts excluded.
"its so bloody typical to blame the poor for their own misfortunes|"
if you don't you have to admit it could happen to you.
Fortunately, all signs point toward an increasingly liberal population in America. You can't reproduce by fucking young boys. That's gonna hurt the GOP.
Game.
Set.
Match.
That one left a mark on Dikyanka.
the fucking banks encourages people to get mortgages willy nilly whether they could afford it or not
all the banks wanted to was make loads and loads of cash, the poor be damned
my dad says in his day there were much more stringent checks when someone went to take out a mortgages, then a few years ago the shackles were taken off and it went off the wall
and they balk at any form of regulation, threating that it'll ruin the econmny and therefore the politicians get frightened and don't do anything
its a fucking vicious cycle and one again the poor get fucked royally
sterilize yourselves, pronto.
Lubyanka
funny how right wing humour always ends up in the same place - you can almost hear the guffaw as the mouth breather slaps himself on the back for the witty riposte and looks around the schoolyard for approval
I haven't heard anyone suggest that you bail out anyone. However, the govt. can step in and change the laws to help keep people in their homes.[...]
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:35 pm | #
Maybe secret leftists Diane Fienstien, Mary Landrieu, Sue Collins, Olymbia Snowe regret their votes on the "bankruptcy reform" acts and banking deregulations that will take away homes from so many.
I spend my days dealing with this crisis. It's what I do. I look at thousands of loan files.
Acknowledging that people made irrational decisions on the hope that they would hit a jackpot flipping a house does not equal lack of empathy for the poor.
That, my friends, is a gamble.
Oops. bubbles pop.
drfranklives
How shocking, I'm sure. Gambling is morally evil, isn't it? The morality police are thus involved, each individual even more moral than the next, constantly eyeing their neighbors to make sure that they are behaving according to the rules as established by - someone. Those in charge. Violation of those rules of course must be punished or else a bad example will be set.
Chuy. The infantilisation of civil society - I swear we 'most of us' had more sense in Grade One than is exhibited by the selfish little twits now abundant in our midst.
I'm going to go make more food than I deserve to have, and spice and season it in ways that represent an actual challenge to the existing authority structure. Afterwards, I may find myself in gastric distress, but I will not deserve to have a bottle of bromo sold to me for I will have knowingly attempted to get away with something wrong.
PFui.
Fortunately, all signs point toward an increasingly liberal population in America. You can't reproduce by fucking young boys. That's gonna hurt the GOP.
Mmmmmmmmmmm! That's some tasty snark!
"its a fucking vicious cycle and one again the poor get fucked royally"
actually this mortgage mess looks to me like fucking the middle class.
the poor have already been skinned.
Now try explaining an interest only mortgage with an adjustable rate. They will sit there and nod their heads like they understand when they have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.
Yes, because we don't really teach this stuff and people don't want to look stupid or ask a question that gets them denied a loan. We could teach folks consumer mathametics, but, by and large, we don't. I had to keep asking the mortgage broker to explain various terms and I've got a few degrees.
I do think bankruptcy judges should be able to reset mortgage loans. Right now they can't, which means your home loan is different from every other type of debt.
The ostensible reason being that they can keep rates lower if they remove doubt about returns.
The lie is put to that by counting how many people noticed a decline in their credit card interest rate after the last bankruptcy act passed.
Um. nobody.
Northern Rock's largest shareholder has issued a warning over plans to sell off the troubled bank.
The firm's preferred route out of its current crisis is to sell itself to other banks or financial institutions.
But the chief executive of RAB Capital, Philip Richards, said he would vote against a proposed takeover of the bank that did not properly value its shares.
BBC business editor Robert Peston said Mr Richards feared the bank's assets would command a low price at present.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/busin...ess/
7110599.stm
and its so bloody typical to blame the poor for their own misfortunes
i mean it goes back to the oft held myth that the poor were poor because it was their own fault
you can thank Martin Luther for that.
sterilize yourselves, pronto.
Lubyanka | 11.24.07 - 3:39 pm | #
Have you ever been boned up the ass for being a fucking wiseguy?
For some reason, I see this in your future...
actually this mortgage mess looks to me like fucking the middle class.
the poor have already been skinned.
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher | 11.24.07 - 3:46 pm | #
I agree with Drfranklives - there should be relief to allow people to keep their homes or trade down, not to rescue real-estate investments.
actually this mortgage mess looks to me like fucking the middle class.
the poor have already been skinned.
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher | 11.24.07 - 3:46 pm | #
ah good point
the ruling class are fucking the middle class, cause they have exhausted screwing the poor
you can thank Martin Luther for that.
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
????
An attitude usually associated (slanderously) with Calvin.
Afterwards, I may find myself in gastric distress, but I will not deserve to have a bottle of bromo sold to me for I will have knowingly attempted to get away with something wrong.
heh indeed.
I gambled on my house. Sure, I put 20% down and bought a lot less house than the bank thought I could afford. Sure, it's a 30 year fixed rate loan. And I've got more money in the bank for a rainy day than some. But it's a gamble that I won't get so sick that I lose my job, my health insurance, and, eventually, my home before I can pay it off. Guess I'm a bad person.
Acknowledging that people made irrational decisions on the hope that they would hit a jackpot flipping a house does not equal lack of empathy for the poor.
drfranklives | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:45 pm | #
That's not the way I see it.
And I'll be seeing you sooner than later, I suspect...
Prepare to bend over....
Have you ever been boned up the ass for being a fucking wiseguy?
Why yes! Yes he has!
"there should be relief to allow people to keep their homes or trade down, not to rescue real-estate investments."
seems to me if this plays itself out the consequences will be just awful. bail out now or breadlines later? that might be the choice.
How shocking, I'm sure. Gambling is morally evil, isn't it? The morality police are thus involved, each individual even more moral than the next, constantly eyeing their neighbors to make sure that they are behaving according to the rules as established by - someone.
There has been a re-education of people over the past 30 years or so. Gambling is ok. In fact you can write a book on virtues and be a gambler. And if it is ok to buy a one dollar lottery ticket on Saturday, what is so wrong with gambling real estate?
I stayed away from crazy loans and crazy step ups ("The three of you all own the mortgage together. It's how you get around the whole condo conversion process.")
And I felt like a sucker since I didn't get in on the "Buy a home while the getting is good with low interest rates!"
I thought, but I don't make enough money to really keep it up if it adjusts. I don't have the assets to cover an increase.
My relatives called me a sucker and an idiot because in the mid-west they have McMansions.
I just thought that it was financially reckless to get a loan I had no business getting.
point conceded:
not much procreating going on in Greewald's bathhouse..
I agree with Drfranklives - there should be relief to allow people to keep their homes or trade down, not to rescue real-estate investments.
rootless-e
Gonna be interesting devising that legislation. Somehow I don't see homeowners being saved while business gets screwed.
Too radical a shift from recent history, and all that.
"Guess I'm a bad person."
No. you're not.
Mrs DWD and I had a conversation with our sons (who keep getting credit card applications in the mail - preapproved of course) about credit the other day. We told them that when we were first married we had to apply to get a credit card from JC Penney's. We were turned down at first because I had not been working long enough (only six months I think) Finally I had been working long enough and we were given something called a Young Modern's Credit Card with a $200 limit. If we proved that we could handle this one, then we could be approved for a regular JC Penney Credit Card.
The boys were just incredulous.
(I never thought that being turned down or having to wait for a credit card or learning how much debt I could afford was an insult or a bad thing, btw)
Still no Gravatar. :-(
PFui.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:45 pm | #
So your position is that a real-estate speculator is owed the same debt of social concern as someone who is unable to pay home mortgage because of illness?
my father paid off his mortgage in 2000
An attitude usually associated (slanderously) with Calvin.
I thought that the trope that people who are successful in this world must have God's blessings - and conversely, those who are poor must have done something to earn God's wrath - came directly from Protestantism, which teaches that works are insufficient to earn God's grace.
But, I could be wrong. My main point is that it's a very Protestant notion that if you're rich, it's because God wants you to be rich because (S)He likes you.
I just thought that it was financially reckless to get a loan I had no business getting.
spocko | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:49 pm | #
You chose..wisely
I'm going to go make more food than I deserve to have, and spice and season it in ways that represent an actual challenge to the existing authority structure. Afterwards, I may find myself in gastric distress, but I will not deserve to have a bottle of bromo sold to me for I will have knowingly attempted to get away with something wrong.
PFui.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar
Bravo
not much procreating going on in Greewald's bathhouse..
Lubyanka | 11.24.07 - 3:49 pm | #
Seriously...ever had demonic cock down your mouth?
I also see that as your destiny....
And if you guys think the bailout is going to go to the homeowners, you are smoking some really good weed.
It will go to Wall Street in NY and Trade Street in Charlotte.
We could teach folks consumer mathametics, but, by and large, we don't.
NYS tried offering "business math" for those unable to do the traditional year of algebra, geometry and trig. It was a disaster. Very few but the well off opted to take the college prep classes and we wound up with a couple of generations of math illiterates. The business math was rated as an eighth grade course. many people graduating from high school could not pass. Math takes a certain amount of discipline and we have to start instilling the habit in the primary grades. IMO.
For what it's worth, I sucked at math till I got to college in my thirties. Then I pulled straight As. Either it was presented differently or my brain had matured.
I agree with Drfranklives - there should be relief to allow people to keep their homes or trade down, not to rescue real-estate investments.
so how do we go about determining who was a flipper who got burned, and who isn't?
I suppose if you never occupied the house then you were just a speculator...
I have, as a gift to all of you, some Public Enemy w/ Herb Alpert.
That is excellent!
i think it works in the ruling class favour to keep the plebs ignorant of financial affairs
easier to control and keep them constrained.
i mean they probably think its dangerous if they knew whats what
got go go byee
And if it is ok to buy a one dollar lottery ticket on Saturday, what is so wrong with gambling real estate?
spinoza, non ridere, non luger
It's all about the trickle-down. Real estate speculation is GOOD for you! Especially if you're a lower economic class schmuck!
Hey! It's all for you! Donald Trump wants you to be rich, too! In fact, he got rich for your sake!
Isn't it amazing what people will swallow?
Gonna be interesting devising that legislation. Somehow I don't see homeowners being saved while business gets screwed.
Too radical a shift from recent history, and all that.
Rmj, Banned in Boston | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:49 pm | #
The probable outcome is that banks and mortgage companies/housing companies are bailed and there is a mechanism which people with good lawyers can use to get bailed on real-estate investments, and also a means of shunting valuable foreclosed property to well connected investors at bargain prices. But none of that makes me see that bailing out speculators is a moral necessity.
we should teach consumer math throughout primary and secondary school. use it to teach math. What's the complaint a kid usually gives you? "But why do I have to study this when I will never use it?"
And if you guys think the bailout is going to go to the homeowners, you are smoking some really good weed
I AM smoking some really good weed.
I also know the government bailout isn't going to do jack shit.
i think it works in the ruling class favour to keep the plebs ignorant of financial affairs
It certainly made the move from pensions to 401k's easier. Now, if big business gets hit, the little guy pays.
so how do we go about determining who was a flipper who got burned, and who isn't?
I suppose if you never occupied the house then you were just a speculator...
You know, there just isn't an argument anywhere that can't be rendered pointless by a little hyperbole.
Still no Gravatar. :-(
My gravatar is holding your gravatar hostage.
BERLIN, Nov 24 (Reuters) - German rail operator Deutsche Bahn has made a new offer to its striking train drivers that foresees wage increases of between 8 and 13 percent, a spokesman for the company said.
Deutsche Bahn has been locked in a long-running dispute with the GDL drivers union, which politicians and economists have warned could dent growth in Europe's largest economy.
GDL, which had been demanding salary increases of up to 31 percent but signalled it would settle for less, has said it will announce on Monday whether it plans to accept the new offer or launch more strikes.
Bahn chief Hartmut Mehdorn gave details of the new offer, which had remained secret until now, at an event in southwestern Germany earlier on Saturday. "I can confirm this," a spokesman for the company said, when asked whether the offer involved raises in the 8 to 13 percent range.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedar...icle?
id=7100490
And if it is ok to buy a one dollar lottery ticket on Saturday, what is so wrong with gambling real estate?
spinoza, non ridere, non luger
Well, people lose their affordable apartments to gentrification because of real-estate speculation ..
I AM smoking some really good weed.
Damn you Barndog. Damn you to hell!
I thought that the trope that people who are successful in this world must have God's blessings - and conversely, those who are poor must have done something to earn God's wrath - came directly from Protestantism, which teaches that works are insufficient to earn God's grace.
It did, but Protestantism teaches God's grace is given, not earned. Catholicism largely agrees with that, btw.
The attitude you speak of is associated with the Reformed, v. Lutheran, branch of Protestantism. Specifically, Calvinism, though it is a perversion of Calvin's soteriology and "doctrine of the Elect" (a pernicious doctrine in itself now largely disregarded by most Protestants).
But, I could be wrong. My main point is that it's a very Protestant notion that if you're rich, it's because God wants you to be rich because (S)He likes you.
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
My gravatar is holding your gravatar hostage.
Richard
Luckily *I* negotiate with criminals.
State your demands.
The biggest declared shareholder in Northern Rock has threatened to block any deal to restore stability to the troubled bank that would not deliver value for money for shareholders.
Philip Richards, chief executive of hedge fund company RAB Capital, said it would be "totally inexcusable" to deliberately force the company into administration by rejecting potential offers from Sir Richard Branson's Virgin and Luqman Arnold's Olivant.
Mr Richards, who bought into Northern Rock only after it fell into crisis this summer, said that either of the bids could result in the Government eventually getting back its £25 billion loan and allow the rebuilding of the bank.
But Liberal Democrat acting leader Vince Cable accused Mr Richards of seeking to "blackmail" the Government and insisted that the best option for Northern Rock was temporary nationalisation.
Although he did not rule out an acceptable deal with Virgin or Olivant, Mr Cable said it looked likely that either would require the postponement or cancellation of interest or the delayed repayment of part of the loan - effectively subsidising shareholders at the cost of the taxpayer.
http://ukpress.google.com/
articl...NJRouGnfFuWpJNg
OK, so I'm in the reddest of red state territory for the holiday, and my fundie father-in-law tells me how much he regrets voting for Bush. He's working third shift for Wal-Mart stocking 3 pallets a night of dairy products. He's 74 years old.
My mother-in-law tells me about a community knitting group with mostly wealthy Republican women - when asked by one member if they would knit helmet liners for the troops, they replied that they didn't have time, and besides, they only knit for themselves.
Slowly, too slowly, change is coming.
turnover, shit!
Time for the brandy spike in the coffee.
Damn you Barndog. Damn you to hell!
I share you know.
What makes you good people think there will be any kind of a government bailout. The government is not just broke but in hock up to its neck to the Chinese. And the Chinese are making noises they want to turn off the spigot. We are well and truly fucked.
I think that the school curriculum should be altered in many many ways. (God! So many ways) But learning to live in our world is one of them. Not only financially but how to be a PARENT should also be taught. Particularly in schools where the majority of the population is receiving food stamps or some sort of assistance. (Something has to be done to break the cycle of poverty and it begins in the home. Certainly society is responsible as well. But we have to address all causes)
Music programs should NOT be teaching students to play band instruments that they will play while they in school then put away for the rest of their lives: they should be teaching piano and guitar and band instruments (if the children are interested - and after they have mastered an individual instrument)
We should have art taught every day from Kindergarten through 12th grade. And not just visual art but every aspect of the artists' experience: film, dance, theater, and anything else that can possibly be shown to children and young people.
(I will shut up now)
Britain's £116bn buy-to-let mortgage market is facing a tough six months that could end in thousands of novice landlords having their second homes repossessed, it was claimed yesterday.
Rising mortgage costs coupled to the first serious falls in house prices are leading some to predict a leap in the number of landlords handing back the keys. Anecdotal reports suggest it is already happening - one experienced landlord in Kent has just paid £150,000 for a repossessed property bought by a rival for £220,000 six months ago.
This week, the UK's third-largest buy-to-let mortgage provider, Paragon, revealed the lending freeze that led to Northern Rock's demise could see it also collapse if it failed to secure funds on the money markets by February.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
busine...runch.mortgages
I share you know.
Barndog, waiting for warm
Well...shit. I need more than virtual weed...but...OK!
I'm still waiting for support for the statement that most of these people were speculators and an explantion of why it's in my interest to watch my neighborhood go down the tubes. Oh well. When challenged, the morally righteous can always accuse the dirty hippies of smoking weed.
I thought that the trope that people who are successful in this world must have God's blessings - and conversely, those who are poor must have done something to earn God's wrath - came directly from Protestantism, which teaches that works are insufficient to earn God's grace.
Works are not sufficient to earn God's grace. But faith alone without works is a pallid faith indeed. Calvinism did not claim that the rich have God's blessings. it taught that God, who is by definition all-knowing, must know who is elect. And we don't. And NONE of us deserve it.
The doctrine has of course changed a bit over the years.
Ecclesia Reformata, Semper Reformanda and all that.
You know, there just isn't an argument anywhere that can't be rendered pointless by a little hyperbole.
drfranklives
The MSM busies itself with proving that every day of the week.
My main point is that it's a very Protestant notion that if you're rich, it's because God wants you to be rich because (S)He likes you.
I woke up early one morning, turned on the TV, and saw Pat Robertson explain the "law of reciprocity"- praise Jesus enough, and Jesus will make you rich.
As "evidence", he brought on a couple that had donated money to his TV ministry and then went on to win the state lottery.
Jesus fucking Christ.
But, I could be wrong. My main point is that it's a very Protestant notion that if you're rich, it's because God wants you to be rich because (S)He likes you.
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
Rmj, Banned in Boston
Don't know why I left that in there. Not enough Protestant Work Ethic, I guess.
As Democrats See Iraq Gains, a Shift in Tone
“The politics of Iraq are going to change dramatically in the general election, assuming Iraq continues to show some hopefulness,” said Michael E. O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who is a supporter of Mrs. Clinton’s and a proponent of the military buildup. “If Iraq looks at least partly salvageable, it will be important to explain as a candidate how you would salvage it — how you would get our troops out and not lose the war. The Democrats need to be very careful with what they say and not hem themselves in.”
At the same time, there is no assurance that the ebbing of violence is more than a respite or represents a real trend that could lead to lasting political stability or coax those who have fled the capital to return to their homes. Past military successes have faded with new rounds of car bombings and kidnappings, like the market bombing that killed at least eight on Friday in Baghdad.
Neither Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Obama nor the other Democratic candidates have backed away from their original opposition to the troop escalation, and they all still favor a quick withdrawal from Iraq. But Mrs. Clinton, for one, has not said how quickly she would remove most combat forces from Iraq or how many she would leave there as president. Former Senator John Edwards, by contrast, has emphasized that he would remove all combat troops from the country, while Mr. Obama favors withdrawal at a rate of one to two brigades a month. Those plans stand in contrast to the latest American strategy of keeping most American combat brigades in Iraq but giving them an expanded role in training and supporting Iraqi forces.
Democrats, end the war now - bring home all the troops!
The MSM busies itself with proving that every day of the week.
Nuts! | 11.24.07 - 3:58 pm | #
I got to observe a newscast from the control room and saw the producer shouting to the reporter EXACTLY what to say.
Well...shit. I need more than virtual weed...but...OK!
If only it was legal. And, it damm well should be.
Blessed are the poor.
Rupert Murdoch has told a parliamentary inquiry that he has "editorial control" over which party The Sun and News of the World back in a General Election and what line the papers take on Europe.
But the News Corporation chairman said he took a different approach with his other national newspapers in the UK, The Times and Sunday Times. While he often asks what the Times and its Sunday sister are doing, he never instructs them or interferes, he told the House of Lords Communications Committee.
Mr Murdoch's comments came in evidence he gave behind closed doors on September 17 in New York, during the committee's visit to the US as part of its inquiry into media ownership and the news.
According to a minute of the meeting published by the committee on Friday, Mr Murdoch said that Sky News - operated by BSkyB, which is 39% owned by a subsidiary of NewsCorp - could be more popular if it emulated his Fox News Channel in the US.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
uklate...7100110,00.html
Slowly, too slowly, change is coming.
ignoreland
that made me howl! TY!
Blessed are the cheesemakers.
But none of that makes me see that bailing out speculators is a moral necessity.
rootless-e
Law and moral necessity aren't even kissing cousins.
They seldom even pass each other on ships in the night.
Progressives! Planet Gore cries out in agony! Sterize yourselves now! For the Goddess Gaia! For Planet Gore!
HOW DO WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN IRAQ? THE NEWS PEOPLE ARE TOO SCARED TO LEAVE THE GREEN ZONE AND THE ONLY INFORMATION COMING OUT OF THE AREA IS BEING GIVEN BY THE MILITARY AND THEY LIE.
Blessed are the cheesemakers.
Richard
No whey!
I just thought that it was financially reckless to get a loan I had no business getting.
spocko
It is not reckless if you have steady employment and good prospects in the case of unemployment.imho
but mcmansion sized homes? not so much
Afternoon batsies.
I think the series should be retitled Simple Answers to Stoopid Questions.
Have We Seen Worse of Mortgage Crisis?
If I were an English teacher, this would make me cringe. Wait, I'm not, and it does, anyway. Cheez...
Jeebus.
Why didn't anyone tell me it was Rightist Saturday Poetry Slam at Eschaton?
Sterize
Why can't we put more learning on our freeptards?
bye for now moonbats
Why can't we put more learning on our freeptards?
It's a lost cause.
one could deduce from the situation in Iraq now that it would have settled down a hell of a lot earlier if we had just gotten out earlier.
It's not peace, it's a diedown in violence. Quite literally. Enough people have died or been forced from their homes that neighborhoods are now ethnically homogenous.
what a lovely result of our foreign policy.
Clinton: into the balkans to avoid ethnic cleansing. Success. no American troops dead.
Bush: into iraq, promoting ethinc cleansing, thousands of Americans dead or crippled.
Let's hear it for Bush!
I'm still waiting for support for the statement that most of these people were speculators
If that's true, and the article is true, then there were 133,000 rilly stoopid speculators, at least, in Miami-Dade-Broward.
Somehow I doubt it.
Law and moral necessity aren't even kissing cousins.
They seldom even pass each other on ships in the night.
Rmj, Banned in Boston | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 4:02 pm | #
and same for social policy. So what good is a social policy that rewards people for speculating in a way that makes housing unaffordable?
Let's hear it for Bush!
drfranklives
We're not "booing"...we're saying "hang the motherfucker"!
Law and moral necessity aren't even kissing cousins.
Well, that may be true. But one is fucking the brains out of the other.
Why would it be hard to believe that in a metro area of several million there might be 133,000 people who made the same boneheaded decision?
Now, let's just assume that 35,000 of them are working poor who were hornswaggled.
Help them.
But the guy I know with the three homes in Florida? All three are in the Miami/Dade/Broward area. So, perhaps you're just talking about 40,000 stupid people each with multiple investment homes.
Not so hard to believe now, is it?
Jesse Jackson summed it up well:
http://www.commondreams.org/arch...007/10/23/4764/
Finally, Reid has done something I actually like...
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn...frustrate-bush/
WASHINGTON (CNN) — With the nation’s attention focused on Thanksgiving leftovers and bargain shopping, the Senate held another brief but significant session on Friday as part of a continuing effort to prevent President Bush from making unconfirmed “recess” appointments.
Sen. Byron Dorgan of North Dakota took on the task of gaveling the Senate in and out of session; the formalities lasted approximately 28 seconds and no other senators were present. Dorgan followed Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia, who presided over a similarly brief meeting on Tuesday. By not going into recess, Democrats can prevent President Bush from filling federal government posts without going through the confirmation process. Dorgan’s holiday plans were not disrupted; he told CNN he was happy to preside, as he had already planned to be on Capitol Hill on Friday for an appropriations meeting.
----
From what I gather, Bush had intended to appoint this psychopath as Surgeon General...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Jam...n_homosexuality
Gilly Gonzylon, if yer still around...
Wheaties ad from 1956
Don't remember the ads (at 6 yo I wasn't much into print media) but I saw the commersials on TV
"came directly from Protestantism, which teaches that works are insufficient to earn God's grace."
iiuc, faith alone is necessary.
i'm covered. nothing can go wrong.
So what good is a social policy that rewards people for speculating in a way that makes housing unaffordable?
rootless-e
Puts money in the pockets of people who put money in campaign coffers.
And the wheels go 'round and 'round.
jdw, the letter to james disposes of that notion.
Why can't we put more learning on our freeptards?
It's a lost cause.
Barndog, waiting for warm
People have to WANT to learn.
They don't.
They, arrogantly and wrongly, think THEY can make US believe as THEY do.
So, perhaps you're just talking about 40,000 stupid people each with multiple investment homes.
Not so hard to believe now, is it?
drfranklives
Each with multiple investment homes and no ability to sustain the investment?
In other words, 40,000 rilly stoopid investors?
Yeah. Still hard to believe.
Here is an article about some people who do not have my sympathy
http://www.signonsandiego.com/
un...b17specula.html
You must not have visited Miami in the last ten years. Who do you think occupied those 75 story condo buildings along the beach? Most of them sold out when built. But seemed to be eternally half-empty.
Richard,
I agree. Reid deserves kudos for keeping the Senate in session. Fuck Bush with a rusty chainsaw.
Each with multiple investment homes and no ability to sustain the investment?
In other words, 40,000 rilly stoopid investors?
Yeah. Still hard to believe.
flory
Not hard to believe:
a) Texas during the S&L scandal, and its aftermath.
b) investors in general. Not nearly as smart as they're cracked up to be.
133,000? I imagine the number to be much higher than that.
They, arrogantly and wrongly, think THEY can make US believe as THEY do.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
IIRC, they create their own reality.
What good is learning about this reality if you can create your own?
Don't remember the ads (at 6 yo I wasn't much into print media) but I saw the commersials on TV
Elmer, PHD | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 4:10 pm | #
aHA! Ice Cream indeed!
That roadblock apparently hasn't slowed the new generation of speculators, who are betting on continued appreciation. "I don't mind losing $200 or $300 a month with my partner," Hall said. "If you keep it a year and it appreciates $60,000, I don't mind losing $2,400 a year to make $60,000."
ding ding ding ding. We have a winner.
Hall, the pharmaceutical rep, said he expects to make $20,000 to $25,000 on each condo he's selling in Palermo – after splitting the proceeds with his partners.
At the Rancho Santa Fe house he is purchasing for $1.6 million, Hall plans to spend about $100,000 on paint, carpets and other upgrades. Six months after the renovation is complete, he plans to sell the house for more than $2 million.
"I'm 38 years old and before you know it I'll be 50," he said. "I realized I needed to do more. I'm buying real estate for my children, because I know I can make a lot of money and then do a 1031 exchange and roll it over into a bigger piece of property."
Here is an article about some people who do not have my sympathy
http://www.signonsandiego.com/ un...b17specula.html
rootless-e | 11.24.07 - 4:12 pm | #
Article's from 2 1/2 years ago. Wonder how he's doing now.
ding ding ding ding. We have a winner.
drfranklives
There's one born every minute. Or so.
Again, I don't mind helping out those who are in a bad situation. We used to have a bankruptcy system that allowed that to take place, with a judge who was able to make decisions based on the circumstances.
It would be nice if we still had that.
"Stabbed-in-the-back memoirs will blow out of west wing assholes like bats out of a cave."
NOT that anyone will BUY them.
b) investors in general. Not nearly as smart as they're cracked up to be.
133,000? I imagine the number to be much higher than that.
Rmj, Banned in Boston
No. But housing investments are the same as making a few stoopid purchases on ETrade.
You have to go thru the whole mortgage process, then find a renter and maintain the property. Not something most people would do on a whim. The whole thought of being stuck with a house you can't rent or sell stops most people cold.
Stoopid speculators just aren't a big enough demographic IMHO to account for the pace of foreclosures.
so will the RE agents and broker have to return the fees on all of the bad loans they immoral and unethically signed off on?
Not hard to believe:
a) Texas during the S&L scandal, and its aftermath.
b) investors in general. Not nearly as smart as they're cracked up to be.
You don't need to be smart when the government rewards carelessness*.
*applies only to people who are politically connected and extremely wealthy.
because I know I can make a lot of money and then do a 1031 exchange and roll it over into a bigger piece of property."
Would be nice if there were more special deductions for lower-income folks (especially those without kids) and fewer codes for special structured "earnings."
What I love is how the tellalls are immediately taken back by the author of the moment.
In book: "bush is a criminal"
Headline: 'Former Secretary X says "Bush is a criminal'
Next day: "Former Secretary X denies calling Bush a criminal"
Richard | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 3:59 pm
1) Where's my gravatar! 299 Quatloos to the finder of my Gravatar.
2) Richard do you think that this exchange is on tape anywhere?
"
As "evidence", he brought on a couple that had donated money to his TV ministry and then went on to win the state lottery."
NOT that anyone will BUY them.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
Come now, people need to prop doors open. And those rubber wedge thingies might set you back a whole dollar.
"I'm 38 years old and before you know it I'll be 50," he said. "I realized I needed to do more. I'm buying real estate for my children, because I know I can make a lot of money and then do a 1031 exchange and roll it over into a bigger piece of property."
or you kids could go to work and buy shit on their own.
Again, I don't mind helping out those who are in a bad situation. We used to have a bankruptcy system that allowed that to take place, with a judge who was able to make decisions based on the circumstances.
It would be nice if we still had that.
drfranklives
Banks and credit card companies didn't like those decisions. And they write the checks that fund the campaigns that keep us all so disgusted we stay home in record numbers (lowest voter turnout of almost any industrialized democracy in the world).
These things are not unrelated. And do I hear ANY Democratic candidate promising radical change?
*silence*
Yeah. Gonna get SO much better in '09.
Have We Seen Worse of Mortgage Crisis?
What kind of grammar is that? Besides, does anyone think that a financial mess that affects so many millions of people, and which took years in the making will pass in a coupla weeks, no problem?
No, there are stupid speculators, and then there are average joes who bet they would be able to refinance before the rates rose.
To the extent they were lied to or duped, we should certainly help them.
We should also help them if they lose their home to foreclosure. But I am not convinced that we should help people who bought a big ass house when they clearly didn't have the income to be able to pay for it, solely on the assumption that it would rise enough that they could later put the equity back into it and lower their monthly payment.
And I know for a fact that happened quite a bit.
You don't need to be smart when the government rewards carelessness*.
*applies only to people who are politically connected and extremely wealthy.
Stinky
THE lesson of the S&L debacle.
Rmj - John Edwards has your change for you.
Public financing first. It's the keystone reform.
Yeah. Gonna get SO much better in '09.
Rmj, Banned in Boston
Won't get better til the Lieberdems and Blue Dogs are sent packing.
And maybe not even then.....
THE lesson of the S&L debacle.
I'm waiting for Pat Buchanan to blame the sub prime meltdown on the jews.
From the article linked to above:
Based on two new surveys, the association estimates that investors purchased 23 percent of all homes purchased last year nationwide, a substantial increase from 2003.
It only got worse from 2004-2006.
NOT that anyone will BUY them.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
Come now, people need to prop doors open. And those rubber wedge thingies might set you back a whole dollar.
Stinky
Those books end up in the dollar stores anyway.
As "evidence", he brought on a couple that had donated money to his TV ministry and then went on to win the state lottery."
The basic theology of the mega-church. It's what Osteen preaches. Robert Tilton preaches it. And Rev. Ike's been preaching it for over 30 years.
Reverend Ike makes it a point of his preaching. His theology centers around the "Science of Living" and "Thinkonomics," his own version of economics based on the premise that poverty, a lack of luck, poor health, etc., are the result of incorrect attitudes, a lack of confidence, a lack of faith and a failure to get in touch with the "presence of God within each of us."
It's the bane of Xian theology, frankly.
I'm waiting for Pat Buchanan to blame the sub prime meltdown on the jews
Don't forget illegal immigrants.
"These things are not unrelated. And do I hear ANY Democratic candidate promising radical change?
*silence*
Yeah. Gonna get SO much better in '09."
--Rmj, Banned in Boston
Even if there is some democrat promising radical change, from what I've read, it sounds like it will get so much worse in '09.
Bush&co have screwed us royally.
FWIW, the g/f worked in the title business during the height of the real estate bubble, and she swears up and down that a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of people were speculating.
I begged to differ with her, I just didn't believe that it was THAT many people.
She asserted that - here in Arizona - there were lots and lots and lots of Californians selling their overpriced homes, buying a primary home here as well as another one or two for speculation.
Just passing on that anecdote...
I really, really wish I'd sold my house last year. *sigh*
Gonna be here a loooong time.
Rmj - John Edwards has your change for you.
Public financing first. It's the keystone reform.
drfranklives
Which is why I will vote for Edwards.
Reverend Ike:
"You can't LOSE with the stuff I use!"
"Don't forget illegal immigrants."
--Barndog,
And the gays, and the unmarried living together. I'm sure there is more.
There certainly wasn't an example of responsible fiscal policy coming out of Washington DC, in the past seven years.
There certainly wasn't an example of responsible fiscal policy coming out of Washington DC, in the past seven years.
a fucking men. We have a subprime economy here!
Which is why I will vote for Edwards.
YOU BASTARD!
I HATE YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE!!!
his own version of economics based on the premise that poverty, a lack of luck, poor health, etc., are the result of incorrect attitudes, a lack of confidence, a lack of faith and a failure to get in touch with the "presence of God within each of us."
Sounds like Oprah.
Edwards is looking better and better. Still undecided, but leaning Edwards. Not that I live in a state with an early enough primary to matter, so it won't make much difference.
YOU BASTARD!
I HATE YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE!!!
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
Okay, okay, I won't vote for Edwards.
Or if I do, I won't tell you.
"Don't forget illegal immigrants."
--Barndog,
And the gays, and the unmarried living together. I'm sure there is more.
mer
Belly-baring teen girls and MTV values.
his own version of economics based on the premise that poverty, a lack of luck, poor health, etc., are the result of incorrect attitudes, a lack of confidence, a lack of faith and a failure to get in touch with the "presence of God within each of us."
that's just grotesque.
If Jesus really were to come back, he'd kick Rev. Ike's ass all the way to the lake of fire.
Edwards is looking better and better. Still undecided, but leaning Edwards. Not that I live in a state with an early enough primary to matter, so it won't make much difference.
TheOtherWA
I understand my state's primary is in February.
Edwards is my daughter's man - has been since he threw his hat into the ring.
I'm wavering between Edwards and Kucinich.
Sounds like Oprah.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
Same gift for selling absolutely nothing at all and still getting people to buy it.
YOU BASTARD!
I HATE YOU AND YOUR ASS FACE!!!
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
For god's sake, please don't burp.
a failure to get in touch with the "presence of God within each of us."
...of course, it does serve the useful purpose of taking focus away from GOP policies designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
There certainly wasn't an example of responsible fiscal policy coming out of Washington DC, in the past seven years.
I've learned from them and now buy all my food off budget.
I've learned from them and now buy all my food off budget.
my hookers and blow are off-budget.
I'm waiting for Pat Buchanan to blame the sub prime meltdown on the jews
Don't forget illegal immigrants.
You forgot feminists and abortions and witches. And Poland.
...of course, it does serve the useful purpose of taking focus away from GOP policies designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
Which you can't do anything about, anyway, so stay out of politics and get back to finding your "God presence."
Politics will take care of itself. Suckers.
"Don't forget illegal immigrants."
--Barndog,
And the gays, and the unmarried living together. I'm sure there is more.
It's the illegal immigrant jewish homosexuals that are destroying america. See the next Lou Dobbs special. And then there is the upcoming Adolph Dobbs special, What has america become with Arbeit macht bean fries?
I've learned from them and now buy all my food off budget.
I understand that you can feed a family of 38 for six cents worth of off-budget tofu.
I threw my budget away, and now I have so much money I can't find ways to spend it all!
Buy my new book and video series and I'll show you how I did it!
You forgot feminists and abortions and witches. And Poland.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
and HITLERY!!!!
his own version of economics based on the premise that poverty, a lack of luck, poor health, etc., are the result of incorrect attitudes, a lack of confidence, a lack of faith and a failure to get in touch with the "presence of God within each of us.
If there's one thing the Bible tells us, is that God and Jesus wore green banker's eyeshades, and lurved them some rich folks.
If there's one thing the Bible tells us, is that God and Jesus wore green banker's eyeshades, and lurved them some rich folks.
MP
God is all about the Mammon.
"Stabbed-in-the-back memoirs will blow out of west wing assholes like bats out of a cave."
NOT that anyone will BUY them.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
Scaife'll scarf 'em up, don' you worry...
Rmj,
The whole premise of Reverend Ike can be very seductive.
In some cases poverty and poor health, ARE the result of incorrect attitudes.
And it also plays into the whole, "pull yourself up from your bootstraps myth that the Republicans love to sell. It is very frustrating to believe that there is nothing you can do to fix your situation because of structural things that make it impossible to succeed.
That is why they love stories that have people say, 'The harder I work the luckier I get' They want people to think that the Horse in Animal Farm Does succeed.
Tying all this to Christ is just insanely wrongheaded, but if there isn't anyone challenging them they get away with it. Wouldn't it be interesting for someone to take Rev. Ike on and point out just how Un-Christian his pronouncements are?
Not that they don't work (because heck people think a lot of things work based on superstition) but just that they aren't CHRISTIAN.
"Hey you can believe all that mumbo jumbo, just don't drag Christ into it. Call it something else."
Watching "Raintree Country" on TCM.
You can sure the difference in Monty Clift from both and after his accident.
If there's one thing the Bible tells us, is that God and Jesus wore green banker's eyeshades, and lurved them some rich folks.
yeah, when Jesus was talking about the rich man and the eye of the needle, he was just, um, telling a joke or something.
Back when I was in Sunday school at a non-denom church (which was in practice a lot like fundamentalism lite), we read that passage about how Jesus said you should give up your worldly things and follow him. The teacher said, "...but we don't have to do that."
My 11 year old mind knew there was something fucked up about that buffet fundamentalism, but I was too young to have the 'nads to directly challenge him...
a failure to get in touch with the "presence of God within each of us."
That's how Michael Milken and other Wall Street sharks make their millions - by getting in touch with the presence of God within.
That's how Michael Milken and other Wall Street sharks make their millions - by getting in touch with the presence of God within.
so God's a con man, is he?
Makes sense, actually.
Watching "Raintree Country" on TCM.
Gonna watch "Days of Heaven" and "Happiness" tonight.
yeah, when Jesus was talking about the rich man and the eye of the needle, he was just, um, telling a joke or something.
He was being ironical, remembering rain on his wedding day.
Oh, hell - this movie I'm watching:
A rebel officer played by DeForrest Kelly.
"I'm an army officer, damnit!"
My 11 year old mind knew there was something fucked up about that buffet fundamentalism, but I was too young to have the 'nads to directly challenge him...
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
You shoulda come to Orangewood Pres with me - you'da gotten the straight scoop. And also, some lovely dates and pita bread as examples of Middle Eastern cuisine (subtext - see? We got dates here too, which means WE DON'T HAVE TO APOLOGISE FOR NOT HAVING SNOW AT CHRISTMAS!)
.
"Hey you can believe all that mumbo jumbo, just don't drag Christ into it. Call it something else."
spocko
It's become as American as apple pie. Rev. Ike's "credo" is the basic sales pitch of every "mega-church" on the planet, and many that aspire to be just as "successful." "Success" for a Christian, of course, would be serving the poor and being the servant of all.
But everybody knows that sh*t don' sell!
It's the difference between the Church of Meaning and Belonging (the mega-church) and the Church of Sacrifice for Meaning and Belonging (the true Xian church, IMHO).
Same as it ever was.
Btw, Elmer Gantry is on TCM at about 3.30...
GWPDA, I went to Sunday school at Grace Community Church in Tempe. Familiar with it?
Those are the fine folks who turned me into an atheist.
(I'm just an agnostic now. So much of the universe is still unknown...)
I think the Bush administration chose to let the housing markets function as the engine of economic well-being during his reich. There weren't that many alternatives. So to some extent all this was done on purpose. The collapse came sooner than Bush would have wanted, though.
My concern is not really about whom to help or not to help at this point. My concern is with what happens if we don't interfere at all. People have been using their houses as the storage of their wealth. When that wealth is suddenly worth a lot less people will stop spending, firms then will stop hiring, unemployment happends and more tightening of the purse strings. A downward spiral which could end in a really bad place. This is what we should address now.
. It is very frustrating to believe that there is nothing you can do to fix your situation because of structural things that make it impossible to succeed.
I have two colleagues who like to carry Ayn Rand novels between their legs and rustle the pages with their genitalia while telling others how we need private highways and batshit nutty freedoms. The one inherited wealth. They live in one of the most expensive parts of New York. They bitterly complain about how they need more lab space, etc.
I think the Bush administration chose to let the housing markets function as the engine of economic well-being during his reich. There weren't that many alternatives. So to some extent all this was done on purpose. The collapse came sooner than Bush would have wanted, though.
as usual, it will be up to a Democratic president to clean up the mess left by a Republican. Been that way since Nixon.
In some cases poverty and poor health, ARE the result of incorrect attitudes.
And it also plays into the whole, "pull yourself up from your bootstraps myth that the Republicans love to sell. It is very frustrating to believe that there is nothing you can do to fix your situation because of structural things that make it impossible to succeed.
We have a long-time friend whose wife became a fundie. The crap her megachurch spews about tithing is ridiculous, they feed people BS like if you give to the church you'll become wealthy. And she's buying into it.
These are people of very modest means with two small children, they barely have two nickels to rub together and the wife is writing checks hand over fist to that church hoping her luck will change.
I have two colleagues who like to carry Ayn Rand novels between their legs
Her novels aren't even fit to wipe one's arse, much less warm the crotch.
yeah, when Jesus was talking about the rich man and the eye of the needle, he was just, um, telling a joke or something.
I actually had that explained away as a narrow gate in Jerusalem where an over-laden (greed, see?) camel couldn't get through.
Jesus, of course, meant a sewing needle, and an impossibility. But as I said, that stuff don't sell in suburbia.
Also treated to many long disquisitions on the Greek word Paul used when he said "the love of money is the root of all evil." I was assured (greed, again) that the word Paul used was 'excessive love.'
I've read the original Greek. He said "philourgia." Which simply means "love of money."
Not a lot of wiggle room, there.
the wife is writing checks hand over fist to that church hoping her luck will change.
*sigh* I too could be rich now, if I had no conscience. Fleecing Christ's flock is so damned easy sometimes... it happens over and over and so many of them have to learn first-hand not to trust the preacher man.
pull yourself up from your bootstraps myth
It's all a matter of degree. There's nothing wrong with an inspirational story about not giving up in the face of adversity.
But don't use Carnegie or Rockefeller as the examples. Those sociopaths would kill their own grandmothers for another 3% of market share.
GWPDA, I went to Sunday school at Grace Community Church in Tempe. Familiar with it?
Those are the fine folks who turned me into an atheist.
If it's the one I'm thinking of, I'm not really surprised.
My concern is not really about whom to help or not to help at this point. My concern is with what happens if we don't interfere at all.
Or if the interference is only at the level of the big banks conspiring to hide and offset real losses. Transparency should be the response.
We have a long-time friend whose wife became a fundie. The crap her megachurch spews about tithing is ridiculous, they feed people BS like if you give to the church you'll become wealthy. And she's buying into it.
Which gives me so much more respect for my unassuming mainline Presbyterian pastor, who asks for tithes, but does so as an expression of thankfulness for God's bounty and a realization that everything we got came not from us. There is no promise of future rewards based on the act of the tithe. That is so assbackwards it's unbelievable.
And yet people throng to those places.
Life in black and white. Easy answers to uncomfortable questions.
Blech.
RMJ,
I have been in a funk on the CHURCH of late. It is just my feeling that there are so few followers of Christ left that if the end came at this point, heaven would be a lonely place. HIS followers are now using the church as an instrument of hate, war, and economic oppression: I cannot even conceive of anything more un Christlike.
Jesus, of course, meant a sewing needle, and an impossibility. But as I said, that stuff don't sell in suburbia.
And "camel" was actually "rope," right? Which makes it a more reasonable metaphor, but still impossible...
Life in black and white. Easy answers to uncomfortable questions.
Blech.
drfranklives
And the promise of an easier life, if your faith is just as the grain of a mustard seed....(which was a useless weed in Jesus' day; another metaphor lost in translation).
pull yourself up from your bootstraps myth
It's all a matter of degree. There's nothing wrong with an inspirational story about not giving up in the face of adversity.
Yes, indeed. However, nobody gets where they are just by themselves unless they live on a desert island. And no matter how good and smart you are, shit sometimes doesn't break your way, and sometimes you can be evil and fucking stupid and become preznit...
And "camel" was actually "rope," right? Which makes it a more reasonable metaphor, but still impossible...
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
Oh c'mon. He meant the cigarette. There's no way he meant the 1,200 pound animal.
Article's from 2 1/2 years ago. Wonder how he's doing now.
Buckeye, Dealer of Rare Coins | 11.24.07 - 4:16 pm | #
Possibly reconsidering those contributions to the RNC. And blaming immigrants.
As the Democratic presidential candidates debate whether Americans should be forced to obtain health insurance, the people of Massachusetts are living the dilemma in real time.
Gosh, that's not at all a condemnatory lede from the New York Times.
Rmj, you're familar with our area?
It's at Southern and, um, just a bit east of Rural Road. I went to HS with the son of the pastor. Said son was C. Davidson. A rather worldly kid he was, too... I'm fairly certain he was not lacking for any material comforts.
After I was old enough to attend regular services, I noticed they spent a lot of time begging for money. I finally timed it. Out of a 90 minute service, they spent 45 minutes haranguing people for money. 45 minutes exactly. That made me very suspicious...
The final straw - after a slow awakening to the hypocrisy and lies and money-grubbing of these arseholes - was when we were treated to a disinformation campaign against evolution. I was only 12 or 13 but I was able to see through their crap. That's when I decided it was all lies and all they were doing there was fleecing the gullible to support the lifestyle they wanted to live in.
Now, this was a middle-class/upper-middle-class church so I doubt that anyone who attended services there was starving their family in order to afford the tithe. All the same... discovering that I'd been lied to and propagandized for years made me a rather vehement atheist for many years after that.
Sheets.
Wall Street is full of MBAs, Marx-slagging capitalists... until the paper they hold is suddenly worth less than the paper they used to wipe their butts this morning. Suddenly, everyone is all about asking the Feds to buy their worthless paper for whatever they say it "should be" worth, never mind what the "free market" determines. Oh, the market is magical, all right -- too bad the trick it's playing is on most of us.
And the article practically admits that Helicopter Ben intends to inflate his way out of the crisis. Might be time to start hoarding Euros, or at least Canadian dollars.
As the Democratic presidential candidates debate whether Americans should have socialized medicine shoved down their throats, the people of Massachusetts are living the Stalinist nightmare in real time.
Fixed their typo...
If it's the one I'm thinking of, I'm not really surprised.
Rmj, Banned in Boston
I hope it's not the "Community Church of Joy". They're nuts.
Orangewood United Presbyterian was what we used to call mainstream Presbyterian. The only way we knew we were damned was because we could never get anybody to patch the roof successfully. And the minister one time embezzeled the treasury. But that was economical and not theological.
HIS followers are now using the church as an instrument of hate, war, and economic oppression: I cannot even conceive of anything more un Christlike.
please don't confuse all followers of Christ with the rather loud-mouthed, right-wing fundies. They've given the religion a bad name.
Well, them and the politicians constantly pandering to them, and all the priests molesting little boys, and all the hypocrites who go to church on Sunday, sing his praises, leave feeling holier than thou, and are lying, cheating, judgemental assholes the rest of the week.
Still, there are some good people who are Christians. It's just that they're not terribly in your face about it. Instead they are out there actually comforting the afflicted and otherwise doing what Jesus wanted them to do, rather than using the Bible to beat people into submission.
I think the Bush administration chose to let the housing markets function as the engine of economic well-being during his reich. There weren't that many alternatives.
Yep. Once the stock market tanked at the beginning of his reign, they had to do something to prop up the economy.
Housing was the only obvious alternative.
And if Greenspan going on teevee and encouraging people to refinance their mortgages into ARMs wasn't proof of that, I don't know what would be.
A young man asked him, "teacher, what can I do to follow you?"
And He responded, "You know the commandments - "honor thy father and mother, remember the Sabbath, do not kill, do not bear false witness, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and love thy neighbor as thyself."
And the young man said, "but I follow all of those. What can I do to be perfect?"
And He responded, "if you wish to be perfect, return to your home, sell all your possessions, give the money to the poor, and follow me."
And the young man wept, for he had many posessions.
Sorry, I'm not a regular poster and will not become one, but here's my beef with regular economists: why o why are they all so darned quiet about this? Be it the advocates of steady state economics or the harnassed monetarists, not one of them is willing to go beyond the obvious. How many fucking models do they need to come to the conclusion that the US cannot sustain a war, a negative savings quote, another war, a trade deficit, a current account deficit, and a nine trillion debt on top of an artificial low price of money (ie, interest) combined with a housing bubble which is imploding. How, Atrios, will this pan out?
We have seen lack of proofreading, however.
The 'mortgage crisis' will be mostly over by 2012. The mortgage crisis is just the tip of the iceberg of the problems in the financial system.
What is unfolding is simply the most important thing that will ever happen in your life in regard to economics, which actually defines almost everything you do. An historical and cultural and political upheaval which will rival if not surpass the Great Depression is not unfolding.
I really really hate being a crackpot on the web. I hope I am wrong.
PS
Too bad there is no edit function.
An historical and cultural and political upheaval which will rival if not surpass the Great Depression is now unfolding.
"The 'mortgage crisis' will be mostly over by 2012. The mortgage crisis is just the tip of the iceberg of the problems in the financial system.
What is unfolding is simply the most important thing that will ever happen in your life in regard to economics, which actually defines almost everything you do. An historical and cultural and political upheaval which will rival if not surpass the Great Depression is not unfolding."
Great, that's at least two contradictions: in 2012 the crisis will be over, nevertheless the crisis will surpass the Great Depression since the mortgage crisis is just the tip of the iceberg, which will usher in an historical and political upheaval, which will be over in 2012. Interesting.
Thanks.
"greatest story never told"-Larry Kudlow
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
