I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Boing!
Praise Jesus!
Keep your Jesus off my penis
Fred!
Well, to be fair, it was necessary for Kennedy to do that because he didn't share their religion. Only the different need to prove themselves.
I do like that Whackjob Embarrassment Archbishop Burke has come out and said he'll deny communion to Guiliani, not that you hear it repeated every minute on the 24-hour news, but at least Burke is consistent in his insanity.
A.
Actually that was Morbo, not Steve.
Whackjob Embarrassment Archbishop Burke has come out and said he'll deny communion to Guiliani, not that you hear it repeated every minute on the 24-hour news
Denying communion is only newsworthy when it's John Kerry.
Jefferson says C&S separation protects your religion more than it protects your state. C&S separation keeps the state from manipulating your religion for political purposes as well as keeping political fakers and pretenders from weakening your religion.
Damnit, why can't a democrat say that instead of pretending C&S separation is unfair to religion?
C&S separation keeps the state from manipulating your religion for political purposes as well as keeping political fakers and pretenders from weakening your religion.
Man, have times changed.
I think the difference is that, in 1960, the belief that the United Sataes should be run as a theocracy was considered radical and unAmerican. Nowadays, we have a whole different Republican party.
“It’s pretty much a slap in the face,” Anderson said. “I think it was a scheme to save money...Anderson’s orders, and the orders of 1,161 other Minnesota guard members, were written for 729 days.
Had they been written for 730 days, just one day more, the soldiers would receive those benefits to pay for school.
--------------------
I want to see the Armed Services Committees hold hearings to find out who exactly made the calculation to cut the orders 1 day short. This was a scheme and it must have originated with high leadership, almost certainly political appointees. This is exactly the story that will show who really supports the troops.
Also Democrats including Obama, please, please stop pretending Christianity is one religion instead of hundreds. "Christians" can't even agree how to get to heaven or even what the definition of Christianity really is. Just ask Mitt.
I do like that Whackjob Embarrassment Archbishop Burke has come out and said he'll deny communion to Guiliani
Athenae
But ONLY for abortion. Being for pre-emptive war and the death penalty are OK.
back in the day it was important for someone like Kennedy to convince religious elites that he had a deep belief in the importance of the separation of church and state.
In fairness, one must observe also that Back In The Day, there were apparently only three options: Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish. When "Fuck The All The Churches" starts to gain ground as an option, "All The Churches" tend to feel threatened and band together. I believe that is what is happening today.
Athenae is right. Obama had to issue all sorts of assurances that his attending a Muslim-run school for about 5 minutes wouldn't lead to him forcing American women into burkas.
The religious right believes in the separation of YOUR church from the state.
Mitzi Romney went to town
Riding on a pony
Stuck his head inside his hat
And spoke to old Moroni.
Let's Elect a Catholic Again!
Oh, did I say Catholic?
I meant Baptist anti-tax anti-choice anti-immigrant right wing Republican
Well, to be clear about it--the religious right of Kennedy's time is exactly like the religious right of our time. Some folks will never change, passing bizarre hatreds though generations.
Irrational loathing of "papists" is a timeless affair in this country.
On the other hand, I wonder if some future generation, assuming this system still exists, will be bombarded with the stupid question, "Is America ready for an Ethiopian Zion Coptic president?"
"Christians" can't even agree how to get to heaven or even what the definition of Christianity really is. Just ask Mitt.
Troutski
No es verdad. The definition of "Christian" is someone who professes the Nicene Creed (later, also the Apostle's Creed).
Mormons are NOT Christians - no Christian group that I am aware of considers them as such.
Anderson’s orders, and the orders of 1,161 other Minnesota guard members, were written for 729 days.
That's an MBA thing. I see it all of the time in my analysis of school district budget spending on subs. If there is any kickers in the sub contract language, subs always get laid off for one day mis contract to break the kicker. Most subs never notice.
From below:
Well, if it isn't mmmm, missy, manon, mishimishi and mimi! How are you all doing?
Marcellina
I got a very nasty email from the long absent mishimishi last year when he/she misinterpreted some comments I made about the Iraq War. I deleted it and vowed to steer clear.
SMOKES!
I love your new grav!
Eurpean Tribune comment:
What you surely can't have noticed, joining ET when you did, is that we are lucky enough to have had two tall blonde Canadian / French engineers here. The other one oddly enough began with an m- too. Here is her Goodbye assholes scene. Please note how she divides people into two camps, the demons and the angels.
So m-whatever could refer to mmmm, or mishimishi, mishi, or other m-combinations. I didn't say it, or explain this, to drag up dirt. Just to say, as Migeru pointed out above, that it looks like a story of an (unexplained) grudge coming over from DKos - not so much a "new" member. And that it gets frustrating, over time, to see the trollish behaviour and how people get manipulated - and how it divides the community.
Sound familiar?
Someone's off someone's meds ...
Well, no, not when there's money to be had by declaring oneself part of a 'faith based' organisation.
Sound familiar?
All too familiar.
Rudy: "It was a sin to marry my cousin, but God forgove me."
Mormons are NOT Christians - no Christian group that I am aware of considers them as such.
See? Mormons and Universalists say yes, Born Againers say no. Who the fuck are you to decide? Who the fuck is anyone to decide besides of God(s) and the worshiper?
Democrats would get a lot of support if they sold separation of C&S this way.
In fairness, one must observe also that Back In The Day, there were apparently only three options: Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish. When "Fuck The All The Churches" starts to gain ground as an option, "All The Churches" tend to feel threatened and band together. I believe that is what is happening today.
blerb
Actually, I ran across something interesting the other day when Rex Humbard died.
In his Wiki entry, it says that he started his television ministry after WWII "because almost no one went to church any more."
And California elected a proud atheist as Governor in the 1930s.
I suspect that if you researched it, you would find a greater tolerance of Atheism in the 1920s than today, and that the Depression and WWII pushed people back to the churches.
Somebody yesterday suggested that Congress should pass a bill granting those Minnesota Guard members their benefits based on their service (if they had to get technical I'm sure they could slip a day in transit or soemthing like that in there). Bush and the Repugs would naturally oppose it (bonus if we could get a Repug on camera calling it a "budget-buster"), and we could use it as an issue for the next year.
And, as an added benefit, some really deserving troops could get the benefits they clearly deserve. Republicans are bound to be against that.
Laws? Mama Doc Rice's Blackwater Guards don't need no steenkin' laws.
For those who listened - sorry it sucked. I need to get used to the new host.
QL - regarding your one giant cookie? Cut it into little squares, top each one with a dab of strawberry jam. These become sugar cookie squares, and intentional.
.
Democrats would get a lot of support if they sold separation of C&S this way.
You'd think, but Jon Krakauer says Mormons are all Republicans.
Atrios--after reading your link about the jobs report, and then following a link in the comments (below), it seems this B&D component, Birth and Death factor, seems to be, from what I could understand as a never took an econ course type, manipulable
http://www.financialsense.com/Ma...rket/
wrapup.htm
Is that the case? Can the government try to play with the B&D to change the job report numbers to meet certain short term needs?
Why was this B&D factor added in mid-2000?
Is there a good, concise explanation of this factor for laypersons?
Anyone?
Most subs never notice.
Troutski
But being in uniform in Iraq and in danger every day of being blown up concentrates the mind exquisitely.
Soulless and heartless motherfuckers in the Pentagon.
I love your new grav!
watertiger
Thanks. You can see a better image if you click the homepage link.
The images, which are manipulated Microsoft clipart, are from the cover of my latest CD, which should be hitting your mailbox soon.
It's an angry affair called We Are Doomed.
Chicken Little has come home to roost.
Happy Anniversary, QL and Mr. QL!
I meant Baptist anti-tax anti-choice anti-immigrant right wing Republican
Culture of TrÜth
I think McCain fits that bill this week. Better act fast, though.
For those who listened - sorry it sucked. I need to get used to the new host.
I did not hear it and therefor will continue to believe you were fabulous.
Jon Krakauer: did he write that Everest book?
See? Mormons and Universalists say yes, Born Againers say no. Who the fuck are you to decide?
Troutski
So if a Hindu says "I'm a Christian," he's a Christian?
It's not my definition - it's the Christians' definition. They bloody well can say "you're not one of us because you don't believe what we believe."
Jon Krakauer: did he write that Everest book?
Yes. And Under the Banner of Heaven, about the origins of Mormonism and the FLDS.
It's not my definition - it's the Christians' definition.
But isn't that a bit circular?
So if a Hindu says "I'm a Christian," he's a Christian?
Yep. Because who the fuck are you to decide?
I did not hear it and therefor will continue to believe you were fabulous.
Marcellina
You are too kind.
Show archives are accessible at the homepage, on the left sidebar. Scroll over to about five minutes left in the show (55 minutes in) to hear me.
Athenae, are we still on for November 24th at your place? I promise Theresa won't eat all the Pringles this time.
"Christians" can't even agree how to get to heaven or even what the definition of Christianity really is. Just ask Mitt.
------------------
Mainstream Christian churches, like the Catholics and the Methodists, not to mention the evangelicals, take the position that Mormons aren't Christians, for a whole long list of doctrinal differences about the nature of God and Christ, which is why Mitt squirms when asked about the details of his religion.
My experience is that "Christians" (of the fundie stripe) have a whole slew of reasons for decreeng that someone else is not a real Christian, and most of those reasons have little to do with religious tenets.
But isn't that a bit circular?
It's more cross-shaped.
I want someone to ask Senator "Slippers" McCain which passages in the New Testament inspired and/or correspond to the Bill of Rights, since our "Founding Fathers" intended this to be a Christian nation.
Jon Krakauer: did he write that Everest book?
"Into Thin Air". It was excellent.
And yet I haven't kept up with his later writings.
I need more reading time, dammit!!
it's the Christians' definition.
jesus jac, your a fucking moron. There is no religion called "Christianity". There are Catholics, Baptists, Mormons. etc.
didn't know an offer like this could deadthread anything... so, again from below...
mornin' dfh's. bloody mary's by the pitcher. step right up.
last fucking offer. guh gungulla
Correction: 56 minutes.
It's not my definition - it's the Christians' definition.
But isn't that a bit circular?
Culture of TrÜth
How so? Don't the folks who are IN the club ALWAYS decide who's in the club?
Islam views Jesus as one of its prophets, but views Mohammed as its last and greatest prophet. They aren't Christians.
Similarly, the Mormons view Jesus as one of their prophets, but Joseph Smith as their last and greatest prophets.
In college, my baptist fundie (within the limits of frat boy ethics and country clup respectability) acquaintance very patronizingly informed me that we had different views on religion, because whilst I was a Catholic, he was a Christian.
There is no religion called "Christianity".
I guess we're not really a Christian nation then.
I want someone to ask Senator "Slippers" McCain which passages in the New Testament inspired and/or correspond to the Bill of Rights, since our "Founding Fathers" intended this to be a Christian nation.
Jim
Judeo-Christian, wasn't it?
damnnn keyboad is stiky his morning. Wonder whr the cat slpt last nigh?
Mormons are NOT Christians [based on not committing to the Nicene Creed]- no Christian group that I am aware of considers them as such.
jac | 10.06.07 - 11:06 am
The MCM*, seemingly playing the odds, is not saying that about Romney and the Mormons. Indeed, it appears Mormons are just like any other Protestant group, so no need to report on its tenets, beliefs, and hierarchy.
Unless the MCM writes Romney off as a viable foil to a Democratic candidate, there will not be widespread or deep reporting about his religion. It's all being kind of fudged and fuzzed.
*MCM--Mainstream Corporate Media
I'm not a blogger but I play one on TV and it seems to me that the bush junta suddenly jumping up and lying and denying torture (flacks on TV) is important - as if the meaning of this is finally getting traction in the American people's minds -
little more than a year ago bush was stumping for his torture bill as was cheney (reeeeallly sorry for the pun in there) - and parsing the Geneva Convention - I'd harp on this endlessly if I were an american lefty - seriously, it's putrid
In college, my baptist fundie (within the limits of frat boy ethics and country clup respectability) acquaintance very patronizingly informed me that we had different views on religion, because whilst I was a Catholic, he was a Christian.
Jim
This was in 1989.
Judeo-Christian, wasn't it?
Lime Rickey | 10.06.07 - 11:16 am | #
Okay, he can have the OT too.
I want someone to ask Senator "Slippers" McCain which passages in the New Testament inspired and/or correspond to the Bill of Rights, since our "Founding Fathers" intended this to be a Christian nation.
Jim
I think they're working up a doctrinal justification for decreeing that the so-called "Bill of Rights" wasn't really the idea of the founders of this country.
It's a lot like that passage in the bible about how it's easier for a came to fit through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. They've just about decided that some communist Philistine slipped that one in when God wasn't looking.
Of course, the idea of someone at the top of some overarching hierarchy that decides religious orthodoxy for everyone has spilled enough blood to copy billions of times Jefferon's Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in dripping letters.
Here I've been eating barbecued Christian babies all along. My diet can't handle differentiating among Baptist babies, Catholic babies, Methodist babies, and so on.
What am I to do?!?
What can't more Christians be like "The Magic Christian"?
jesus jac, your a fucking moron. There is no religion called "Christianity". There are Catholics, Baptists, Mormons. etc.
Troutski
Jesus, Troutski, you're a fucking moron. Each one of those "separate religions" considers the others Christians. Baptists take communion with Presbyterians, and sit in Methodist pews.
Ask an Episcopalian if a Baptist is a Christian, and he'll say Yes.
Ask a Baptist if an Episcopalian is a Christian, and he'll say Yes.
An aside: The more Safari acts like Windows ("are you sure you want to close this window?") the more irritating I find it.
I'm not a blogger but I play one on TV and it seems to me that the bush junta suddenly jumping up and lying and denying torture (flacks on TV) is important - as if the meaning of this is finally getting traction in the American people's minds
What this story needs is a scandal mentality in the media: to not let go of it and keep it forefront in people's minOH LOOK! THAT GUY"S NOT WEARING A FLAG PIN!
Islam considers Jews and Christians to be "people of the Book"
Are Mormons "people of the Books"?
I think some Christian rhetoric should be attacked from the right. Take prayer in school... Turn the conversation to baptism in school. Do parents want their children baptized by the School?
Abrahamic religions are loopy horseshit.
I say we solve this dispute once and for all.
I need phone numbers for the following, if you can help:
Christian Slater
Christian Laettner
Christiaan Barnard
TIA.
Here I've been eating barbecued Christian babies all along. My diet can't handle differentiating among Baptist babies, Catholic babies, Methodist babies, and so on.
What am I to do?!?
Sinfonian,preparing for a trip
You'll learn to differentiate by taste. Catholic babies are much spicier. Besides, the Baptist babies don't respond well to a bourbon marinade.
What am I to do?!?
Sinfonian,preparing for a trip
You can't go wrong with Mormon.
Islam, Christianity, and judaism are "Abrahamic" religions.
Ask a Baptist if an Episcopalian is a Christian, and he'll say Yes.
jac |
Depends on the Baptist. A lot of them think that you're only a Christian if you've accepted/acknowledged Jesus Christ as your "personal savior", and that Episcopalian means "spends Sunday morning reading the New York Times"
we hold these truths to be self evident, that we are endowed by our http://us.st11.yimg.com/
us.st.yi...age_1969_990551
certain inalienable rights...
It'd be really nice if xtians read that New Testament thingy - they'd discover what a lefty peacenik tract it is
seriously to be a xtian mean you believe in turning the other cheek as in pacifism - name me a pacifist xtian leader with credibility and a following
So do you get to heaven by good deeds, ritual, or faith? Christians can't agree on this most basic tenet of all.
To pretend that all of the Christian sects are somehow the same when grouped under the banner of "Christian" is intellectually dishonest. And more often than not when someone pretends there is a "Christian religion" there are political motives behind their religious claims.
Boing!
Gerald | 10.06.07 - 10:55 am | #
I worry that a sizable percentage of the people here don't understand why that's funny.
Chiles arrived! Creating a new shopping list.
You can't go wrong with Mormon.
Lime Rickey
I find them too stringy and inbred.
Thanks all, and GWPDA, I'll take your advice.
Marcellina, it confirms my previous conclusion. Seriously ill person to be avoided at all costs. Thanks for the digging.
My experience is that "Christians" (of the fundie stripe) have a whole slew of reasons for decreeng that someone else is not a real Christian, and most of those reasons have little to do with religious tenets.
Doc | 10.06.07 - 11:14 am | #
I find it's generally because the offending party proposes something Jesus himself would approve of.
I firmly believe that if Christ returned, today's "Christians" wouldn't stop at mere crucifixion to silence him.
pacifism - name me a pacifist xtian leader with credibility and a following
NTodd?
Semantically, "Christianity" is a religion; the various groups are considered "sects" within Christianity.
As Shia are a sect within Islam; Sunnit being another, plus there a those I don't know (Sufi is one, iirc).
and you schismatics don't even use the right Ten Commandments. So suck it.
Scientologists are Christian. They always have a big picture of Jesus in their churches.
and you schismatics don't even use the right Ten Commandments. So suck it.
Jim, tribal Catholic
Okay, that just made me laugh right the fuck out loud.
OH LOOK! THAT GUY"S NOT WEARING A FLAG PIN!
SteveNS
I've been meaning to ask - do all politicians wear one? who noticed Obama wasn't wearing his and when will real american politicians stand up and have the flag tatooed on their foreheads?
Scientologists are Christian. They always have a big picture of Jesus in their churches.
Troutski
Does he have antennae on his head like "My Favorite Martian"?
So do you get to heaven by good deeds, ritual, or faith? Christians can't agree on this most basic tenet of all.
That's not the most basic tenet to Christians - it the most basic tenet to Troutski.
Read the Nicene Creed. Read the Apostle's Creed. All Christian denominations say that if you adhere to one of those, you are a Christian. Everything else is detail.
Whether you like it, or agree with it, or not.
I firmly believe that if Christ returned, today's "Christians" wouldn't stop at mere crucifixion to silence him.
MANIMAL
They build a fence to keep out people who insist on speaking aramaic.
C&S separation keeps the state from manipulating your religion for political purposes as well as keeping political fakers and pretenders from weakening your religion.
Unfortunately evangelical Christianity has been morally bankrupt since its takeover by televangelists and mega-church charlatans, with the eager assistance of their dumb-as-dirt flocks. They've perverted Christianity into an unrecognizable brew of racism, xenophobia and devil-take-the-hindmost worship of wealth. Rush Limbaugh and that nice man behind the pulpit both say Jesus hates liberals and loves tax cuts for the rich, so it must be true. Does anyone honestly expect these benighted clowns to understand the concept of the separation of church and state, let alone the reason why in the long term it's essential to the survival of religion itself?
ql,
I worry that a sizable percentage of the people here don't understand why that's funny.
Gerald McBoing-Boing?
fokiwi @11:20--what a stunning photo!
Where is your cabin? Away from urban light spill?
Can you see the immensity of the Milky Way? God, I miss seeing that in the night sky.
I stopped going to church when they stopped serving wine. the portions were small but it was free.
Scientologists are Christian. They always have a big picture of Jesus in their churches.
So does the Self Realization Fellowship (SRF). But next to Jesus there's a picture of Swami Sri Yukteswar.
What are you on about, Troutski? What point that you are trying to make is so important that it warrants this level of acrimony? Or am I still in your killfile for defending Hillary?
What scares the shit out of me is that Ron Paul seems to be the most sane Republican candidate.
That's how much times have changed.
I firmly believe that if Christ returned, today's "Christians" wouldn't stop at mere crucifixion to silence him.
MANIMAL
Peter Pumpkinhead
Came to town
Spreading wisdom and
Cash around
Fed the starving and
Housed the poor
Showed the Vatican
What gold's for
Christianity is dying off, according to polls of the younger generation.
It's just possible that Mittster can convince his followers that kids prefer a fresh modern religion invented in the last millenium, like Mormonoidism or Psychotonomy, over those stale, outdated ones.
In college, my baptist fundie (within the limits of frat boy ethics and country clup respectability) acquaintance very patronizingly informed me that we had different views on religion, because whilst I was a Catholic, he was a Christian.
Jim
The fundies have co-opted the title "Christian" and anyone who does not believe they have a personal relationship with Christ is simply not considered Christian. I had one tell that Quakers are not Christians.
Folowi @ 11:21
Short term mememory loss?
Has Obama ever come right out and said something like, "Wearing a flag pin does not make one more American, and not wearing one doesn't make one any less so?"
Because if he hasn't, he should. Repeatedly.
Scientologists are Christian. They always have a big picture of Jesus in their churches.
Troutski
Troutski is a Christian because I say he is.
Jeez, Catholics still give you wine on Sunday morning.
Scientologists are Christian. They always have a big picture of Jesus in their churches.
I lived with some Scientologists way back when -- in fact they were pretty much running the church out of the house. And I never heard one of them even mention Jesus in passing.
fokiwi @11:20--what a stunning photo!
That's going to require a LOT of Visine.
Jeez, Catholics still give you wine on Sunday morning.
Molly Ivors
Tougher on the knees, though.
All Christian denominations say that if you adhere to one of those, you are a Christian. Everything else is detail.
Ya and Catholics are the only true Christians then, asshole. Just ask Peter.
Jeez, Catholics still give you wine on Sunday morning.
Molly Ivors
The Whiskypalians get theirs Saturday night.
John Kromko, former AZ State House Rep had to lead the legislature in prayer one day. His prayer?
"Oh, Lord, please deliver us from those who would destroy the separation of church and state.
Amen."
NTodd?
camelot
25 people reading a blog does not constitute a following but he if promting peace and pantlessness are xtian then he's the king (with all due apologies to our modern Herod bushboy)
ql Johnson is RIGHT!!
You have to "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior," or else you aren't a Christian by the fundie definition.
pacifism - name me a pacifist xtian leader with credibility and a following
Desmond Tutu.
Somebody someday may win an argument about religion but one thing is for sure, Unca Smokes is right:
Chicken Little has come home to roost.
Actually, my dad, who's very very Catholic, says that the Greek orthodox church is probably closer to a straight line from the original church.
Ya and Catholics are the only true Christians then, asshole.
Kind of early for that, isn't it?
Gerald McBoing-Boing?
pie | 10.06.07 - 11:24 am | #
Yeppers.
Oh, BTW -- I'm gonna burn you that Springfield tribute album manana.
.Christianity is dying off, according to polls of the younger generation.
The decay of traditional religious institutions among educated societies is an inexorable, worldwide trend. The US has been lagging pretty severely, but it is happening here too.
Want to see a bunch of self described Christians argue? Ask them if Jesus believed in the death penalty.
Tougher on the knees, though.
Doc
Catholics? Oh, please. That's nothing. They get cushions. Try bathroom tile for a while and you'll learn tough on the knees, pal.
Jac - making shit up for the glory of God.
I concede that makes Jac a true Christian.
Ya and Catholics are the only true Christians then, asshole. Just ask Peter.
Troutski
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have both, in my lifetime, made it very clear that the Catholic hierarchy view Protestantism as Christianity. Flawed, yes. Should return to the Catholic church, yes.
But Christianity.
I'm sorry about your small penis making you so angry.
Jeez, Catholics still give you wine on Sunday morning.
Molly Ivors
Ever see that Edward Burns movie where John Mahoney is the father telling his sons they shouldn't shack up with their girlfriends because it violates Church law, and one of the sons says:
"Jesus Christ, Dad, you don't even believe in God"
"That's got nothin' to do with bein' a good Catholic!"
Jac, do not see how have already assumed which are christian denominations, and which are not, by writing "All Christian denominations say"
I don't really give a damn how Chrisitans define themselves and others as co-religionists, but I think we can all agree that anyone who voted for George W. Bush because he was a "good Christian man" is a dangerous moron.
Ask them if Jesus believed in the death penalty.
Well, it was demonstrably real for him.
Oh well, I guess Athenae is still mad about all the Ho-ho's getting scarfed during our last visit, can't say I blame her. 
(walks away w/head hung down)
"Oh, Lord, please deliver us from those who would destroy the separation of church and state.
Amen."
George Johnston
Bravo.
fokiwi @11:20--what a stunning photo!
Where is your cabin? Away from urban light spill?
Can you see the immensity of the Milky Way? God, I miss seeing that in the night sky.
jawbone | 10.06.07 - 11:24 am | #
my cabin is right in the middle of the photo...
I'm gonna burn you that Springfield tribute album manana.
Thank you!
My husband loved Gerald when he was a wee lad.
I'm gonna burn you that Springfield tribute album manana.
12 different versions of 'Jesse's Girl'?
*ducks*
Actually, my dad, who's very very Catholic, says that the Greek orthodox church is probably closer to a straight line from the original church.
Molly Ivors
But is that the 'original' church of Zeus, or of Ra-tet?
You have to "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior," or else you aren't a Christian by the fundie definition.
That's right. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
You have to "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior," or else you aren't a Christian by the fundie definition.
Sinfonian,preparing for a trip | Homepage | 10.06.07 - 11:27 am | #
You have to say you do. The fundamental basis of ChristoFundamentalism in the US is a serious commit being a sucker and a bullshit artist at the same time.
Gerald McBoing-Boing?
pie | 10.06.07 - 11:24 am | #
Yeah, well, I had a Winky-Dink screen.
Christianity is dying off, according to polls of the younger generation.
Hooking the wagon to something as volitile and worldly as a political movement was a mistake of epic proportions.
You have to "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior," or else you aren't a Christian by the fundie definition.
Sinfonian,preparing for a trip | Homepage | 10.06.07 - 11:27 am | #
Good. That means I don't have to give up making matzohs from the blood of Christian babies.
h/t to the photo from chtulu. i put it on my laptop for background.
it's the eye of god, don't y'all know?
I don't really give a damn how Chrisitans define themselves and others as co-religionists, but I think we can all agree that anyone who voted for George W. Bush because he was a "good Christian man" is a dangerous moron.
Doc
Preach it, Brother!
Now that I'm in South Dakota, having grown up Southern Baptist in Texas, I learned that Northern Baptists do not consider my erstwhile denomination "real Baptist."
That makes me laugh like hell, and thus it is time for an Emo Phillips' classic, where he is trying to coax a man from jumping off a bridge:
"I said, 'Are you a Christian or a Jew?' He said, 'A Christian.' I said, 'Me too! Protestant or Catholic?' He said, 'Protestant.' I said, 'Me too! What franchise?' He says, 'Baptist.' I said, 'Me too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?' He says, 'Northern Baptist.' I said, 'Me too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?' He says, 'Northern Conservative Baptist.' I said, 'Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reformed Baptist?' He says, 'Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist.'
"I said, 'Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Eastern Region?' He says, 'Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region.'
"I said, 'Me too! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1879 or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912?' He says, 'Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912.' I said, 'Die, heretic!' and I pushed him over."
Yeah, well, I had a Winky-Dink screen.
Brooklyn Girl
Oooh, I am so jealous!
I wanted one of those so badly, and also wanted a Teddy Snowcrop puppet.
Sigh...
So do you get to heaven by good deeds, ritual, or faith? Christians can't agree on this most basic tenet of all.
--------------------------
Take the stairway.
That makes me laugh like hell, and thus it is time for an Emo Phillips' classic,
What can't more Christians be like "The Magic Christian"?
George Johnston
Free money in a pool of bile! Amen!
jesus jac, your a fucking moron. There is no religion called "Christianity". There are Catholics, Baptists, Mormons. etc.
Troutski
Well, yes and not yes. There is a little qualifying creed, which is the ultimate qualifier - and those who do not subscribe are not considered by the rest to be even marginally close members. The various auxiliary tenets, theology and practices are certainly wildly divergent one from the other - but at the center is that one, agreed upon creed.
You have to "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior," or else you aren't a Christian by the fundie definition.
Sinfonian,preparing for a trip
Does he have a website? Or can I just IM or text him?
Jac, do not see how have already assumed which are christian denominations, and which are not, by writing "All Christian denominations say"
Culture of TrÜth
I can't quite parse this. Mind rephrasing?
To the extent that they tend to constrict the perceived social boundary between "us" and "them", all religions are a bad thing. Any that wish to survive into the long-term future had better cut all that shit out.
Ya and Catholics are the only true Christians then, asshole.
Kind of early for that, isn't it?
pie
Hey! It's not too early for the bushies to be parsing torture on TV so it's definitely not too early for religiosity snark or cornholing a congresscritter (tappity tap tap)
I had one tell that Quakers are not Christians.
Oh hell, I've had 'em tell me that we Piskies are not Xtians... Works for me...
Oooh, I am so jealous!
I wanted one of those so badly, and also wanted a Teddy Snowcrop puppet.
Sigh...
Lindsay, clean fucking hippie | Homepage | 10.06.07 - 11:33 am | #
I once made the mistake of not putting it on the teevee before I drew the bridge that would save Winky from certain death ... my parents weren't happy ...
The radio station I listen to is playing Bob Dylan's "Most Likely You Go Your Way", the 10th time in the last 2 weeks, and his diction is so awful that it still sounds to me as if he's singing "I'm gonna lick your ass."
more about separation between Pope and state.
Of course, if some cranky Catholic bishop is giving Kerry a hard time, well that's okay...
Good. That means I don't have to give up making matzohs from the blood of Christian babies.
Heh. I knew there was a reason we never got Halfhalfdan baptized....
Want to see a bunch of self described Christians argue? Ask them if Jesus believed in the death penalty.
------------------------
He didn't just believe in it. He'd seen it done.
Sigh...
Lindsay, clean fucking hippie
go tribe [whispering]
That's right. "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
Halfdan
Me, Myself and I, wasn't it?
Off to feed the horsies and collies. L8r heathens.
Before we get around to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, here's an illustration of how problematic the question of True Christianity is:
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said:
"Stop! Don't do it!"-- "Why shouldn't I?" he asked.
"Well, there's so much to live for!"-- "Like what?"
"Are you religious?"-- He said: "Yes."
I said: "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"-- "Christian."
"Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"-- "Protestant."
"Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"-- "Baptist."
"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of God."
"Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God."
"Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said: "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915."
I said: "Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.
Ferretface.
with apologies to ferrets.
Me, Myself and I, wasn't it?
John Prine?
You should hear a Presbyterian baptismal service, as in unison, the congregation makes sure everyone understands that the "c" in "And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church" is distinctly lower-case.
.
Well, reluctantly I must sign off.
Big game today (#6 South Florida coming to town to play Our Owls) and I'm working the tailgate (not a Larry Craig reference).
Catch you patriotz laterz.
76 Visitors owes Uncle Smokes a communion wine.
pie:
ssshhhhh
Basically, talking out my ass as a one-time Anthropology major, I think one of the major social functions of religion across human society is to differentiate "us" and "them". Thus, it seems futile to expect broad, forgiving tolerance between different creeds, regardless of simiarities. I'm just not in favor of organized (and especially regimented) religion of any flavor.
Any that wish to survive into the long-term future had better cut all that shit out.
blerb
I'm still thinking we're fucked until science discovers a vaccine.
with apologies to ferrets.
watertiger
And Larry Linville.
That has got to be the longest coke post ever.
Bye!
The radio station I listen to is playing Bob Dylan's "Most Likely You Go Your Way", the 10th time in the last 2 weeks, and his diction is so awful that it still sounds to me as if he's singing "I'm gonna lick your ass."
Marcellina
It's sacrilege to say so, but I think Dylan played the harmonica so badly to make his singing seem more palatable.
So do you get to heaven by good deeds, ritual, or faith? Christians can't agree on this most basic tenet of all.
--------------------------
Take the stairway.
Newton Minnow
Nah, you have to get with the Foreordination thing. If you accept that god is omnicient then god already knows who is going to hell or heaven: therefore whatever you do on this earth has already been determined. Therefore, it don't make no difference.
Good. That means I don't have to give up making matzohs from the blood of Christian babies.
I like those the best with gefilte fish and red horseradish. Lovely color combination on the plate ... the pale pink matzoh sets the fish off quite nicely ...
Ok, you have a hypothetical Hindu who says "I am a Christian," and you respond, "you can't be, because all Christian denominations say you have to accept this creed, and you don't", and the dude says, "well how do you know those are Christian denominations and mine is not," and you say, "because they are in the club and you're not," and he says "well how do I get to be in the club" and you say "you have to be a real Christian."
Good. That means I don't have to give up making matzohs from the blood of Christian babies.
steve simels | Homepage | 10.06.07 - 11:31 am | #
Good to see the old craft tradition still being kept going. Maybe there should be a Williamsburg village kinda historical re-enactment - could even be in Williamsburg Brooklyn.
You have to "accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior," or else you aren't a Christian by the fundie definition.
Sinfonian,preparing for a trip#
i did that when i was a teen, but this year i intentionally blasphemed the holy spirit.
i think jesus's head exploded.
Sorry, 76 Visitors Online, but I beat you to the exact Emo Phillips' quotation.
[I am such a comedy geek.]
Yeah, well, I had a Winky-Dink screen.
Brooklyn Girl
Oooh, I am so jealous!
Dang, I'm glad I scrolled on a bit before I posted the exact same words.
I had Saran Wrap and a crayon.
But, you know, all I ever really wanted was one of those two-foot Tootsie Rolls Pinky Lee gave away...
uncle smokes. you live in sioux falls? i live in brookings, but up at lake poinsett for the weekend.
Ok, you have a hypothetical Hindu who says "I am a Christian," and you respond, "you can't be, because all Christian denominations say you have to accept this creed, and you don't", and the dude says, "well how do you know those are Christian denominations and mine is not," and you say, "because they are in the club and you're not," and he says "well how do I get to be in the club" and you say "you have to be a real Christian."
Culture of TrÜth
See, a Zen Buddhist would appreciate that. One hand clapping, and all that.
So do you get to heaven by good deeds, ritual, or faith? Christians can't agree on this most basic tenet of all.
My dear, this is far from the most basic tenet - rather it is the origin of the Protestant Christian tenets of faith.
with apologies to ferrets. watertiger
And in those days there will be snarm and rumors of snark, and son shall lose his father's hammer, and there will be prop malfunctions, and the people will wait in wonder.
i have no faith in this thread.
so i'm going upstairs.
Sheets
those worn over the pointy heads of people like Glen Beck
So do you get to heaven by good deeds, ritual, or faith?
Not sure about that, but I do know that you'll never get to heaven if you break my heart.
i think jesus's head exploded.
Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Scanners"
And in those days there will be snarm and rumors of snark, and son shall lose his father's hammer, and there will be prop malfunctions, and the people will wait in wonder.
I am Gimlet, daughter of Groin...
Good. That means I don't have to give up making matzohs from the blood of Christian babies.
steve simels | Homepage | 10.06.07 - 11:31 am | #
Good to see the old craft tradition still being kept going. Maybe there should be a Williamsburg village kinda historical re-enactment - could even be in Williamsburg Brooklyn.
rootless2
There is a church here in Tirol which was built on the alleged spot where a xian tot was abducted and murdered by itinerant jews.It's been officially debunked but the kid ("Anderl of Rinn" has already been beatified by the catholic church, and has "followers". Creepy.
I once made the mistake of not putting it on the teevee before I drew the bridge that would save Winky from certain death ... my parents weren't happy ...
Brooklyn Girl | 10.06.07 - 11:35 am | #
Oh my god -- you really did that?
That's so cool....
and he says "well how do I get to be in the club"/i>
Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jim Bakker, or their latter-day counterparts say "Visa, MasterCard, or American Express, baby."
s
h
e
e
t
s
I just don't understand why anyone cares whether people of other sects accept them as being "Christian" or not. If you think you're doing it right, and that someone else is doing it less right (or different right) than you, then why is his or her approval relevant? That's partially what I don't get about Obama. He really wants other Christians to accept him as one of their own, when his church is weird to them.
Yeah, well, I had a Winky-Dink screen.
Brooklyn Girl
Oh, we did, too. Though we were known to draw on the tv screen without it.
.
my cabin is right in the middle of the photo...
fokowi at lake cabin | 10.06.07 - 11:30 am
Cosmic, man.
Didn't Martin Luther nail somebody's hands to a church door to make him a Protestant?
uncle smokes. you live in sioux falls? i live in brookings, but up at lake poinsett for the weekend.
fokowi at lake cabin
Indeed I am in Sioux Falls. I can look out my apartment window upon the minor expanse of the Empire Mall.
Were you born in South Dakota? That is, are you a "true" South Dakotan? 
My dear, this is far from the most basic tenet - rather it is the origin of the Protestant Christian tenets of faith.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Historian | Homepage | 10.06.07 - 11:41 am | #
As an outsider, I can't see that there is a basic tenet of faith in Christianity - certainly, there exist or have existed self-identifying Christian sects with precepts ranging from the revolutionary communism of Thomas Munzer to the right wing lunacy of Opus-Dei which have tried very hard to exterminate each other.
Religious doctrines are coherent and harmonious wholes only to the believers.
Didn't Martin Luther nail somebody's hands to a church door to make him a Protestant?
Lime Rickey
Sure that wasn't Clint Eastwood?
I belong to a more pure, breakaway group of the FSM.
Ok, you have a hypothetical Hindu who says "I am a Christian," and you respond, "you can't be, because all Christian denominations say you have to accept this creed, and you don't", and the dude says, "well how do you know those are Christian denominations and mine is not," and you say, "because they are in the club and you're not," and he says "well how do I get to be in the club" and you say "you have to be a real Christian."
Culture of TrÜth
OK, thanks.
We're talking about different things. Anyone can, of course, label him/herself "a Christian," no matter what he/she actually believes.
Which, since people with widely divergent beliefs call themselves Christians, creates an identity problem.
GWPDA's post above says it well - how do Christians recognize each other, by the label or the beliefs?
The formal, official answer to that question is, "by the beliefs."
This isn't actually a new conversation - the purpose of the Council of Nicaea was to "define" Christianity, and what writings were "good" versus "bad."
It came up with the Bible, and the Nicene Creed. Protestants wrote the Apostle's Creed, and there are variations between them, but there are a lot of commonalities.
Oh my god -- you really did that?
That's so cool....
steve simels | Homepage | 10.06.07 - 11:44 am | #
Yes, yes, I did. Saved his ass many times.
Ask them if Jesus believed in the death penalty.
Well, it was demonstrably real for him.
Molly Ivors
________________________________________
Then why is He referred to (by True Christians, whatever those are) as "The Comeback Kid"?
Yes, yes, I did. Saved his ass many times.
Brooklyn Girl | 10.06.07 - 11:48 am | #
Hilarious.
I actually own a square inch of land in Alaska. Got the deed to it by sending in some Wheat Chex boxtops as instructed by Sgt. Preston of the Yukon.
I bet it's really valuable....
I suspect that if you researched it, you would find a greater tolerance of Atheism in the 1920s than today, and that the Depression and WWII pushed people back to the churches.
jac
I've no doubt that you would. I would venture that the mainstream media's push to portray "real Americans" as "people of FAITH" has had more to do with people's claimed affiliations in polling than has won the day...but I don't assume that those people are all telling the truth, either. I suspect many of them are saying what they think most other people want to hear.
It's not my definition - it's the Christians' definition. They bloody well can say "you're not one of us because you don't believe what we believe."
jac
"Christian" means "follower of Christ", which would open up the field even to people practicing other religious traditions such as Hindu or Buddhist, so long as they were open to the message of Christ and "follow" him in their actions in life. At least that's what it originally meant, back when there were still gnostics. Everything else since then, every creed, every pledge, every dogma, is all man-made and, you can be sure, made to suit the agenda of whoever was setting the policy.
I actually own a square inch of land in Alaska. Got the deed to it by sending in some Wheat Chex boxtops as instructed by Sgt. Preston of the Yukon.
________________________________________
Sorry, Steve-- if you read the fine print, you'll find that the land reverted to the Ralston Purina company after a year and a day because you failed to develop the property.
Is it possible to be a Democrat and a R Catholic? If you watch Catholic teevee or listen to Catolic radio and believe the right wing rhetoric spewed forth 24/7 you can't be both RC and liberal.
Mitt Romney has rightly fallen victim to what can be called the Republicans' "God Trap." That is, running as "men of faith" to lead what many of its own members call "God's Own Party," Romney is being called on it.
In 2006, the former Massachusetts governor told Fox News, "People in this country want a person of faith to lead them as their president." On Tuesday, WHO radio host Jan Mickelson took him up on it, and questioned Romney (video here) about his Mormon faith. An agitated Romney complained he was not "running as a Mormon" and that Mickelson was "trying to tell me I'm not a faithful Mormon."
Romney, of course, brought this on himself. In a February 2007 interview in South Carolina, Romney acknowledged Americans' natural curiosity about his faith. In May, Romney gave a graduation address at Pat Robertson's Regent University, despite the latter's past description of Mormonism as a "cult." And just two weeks ago, Romney signaled he would likely follow in the footsteps of John F. Kennedy and deliver a major speech describing his Mormon faith and how it would inform his presidency:
"I have thought about that. I haven't made a final decision, but it's probably more likely than not. It's probably too early for something like that. At some point it's more likely than not, but we'll see how things develop."
In the interim, Romney's refusal to answer questions he raised by his "person of faith" claim has left the field open to others. For example, the New Republic in its January 15th and 29th issues examined the impact of Mormon doctrine, including its tenet that the Second Coming of Christ will occur in the United States, upon a Romney presidency. Over at the National Review, Kathryn Jean Lopez tried to make Romney's case for him. Meanwhile, the New York Times reported in June that as Romney tries to evade inquiries about his little-known faith, Mormons across the nation increasingly find themselves under the microscope.
For more details, see:
"Romney, Giuliani and the Republicans' God Trap."
Evangelitards have never been for separation of church and state.
They exist in an insular, parochial world where theirs is the only 'religion' and the 2000+ other religons in the world are 'cults' of no legitimacy. Oh, and George Washington and Jeebus both subscribed to their particular religion. Just ask them.
They'll scream if any other religions garner any tiny bit of influence (social studies classes in public schools about Muslim countries, which *gasp* mention Islam), while pining for a world where their religious bigotries, superstitions and perversions are enforced on everyone.
The tortuous cranial gymnastics involved to hold such positions in your skull, border on mental illness.
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