I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Da Dah!
Endless war is the business of America.
I'll wait.
.
Don't even think about going for home.
[looks at watch]
.
A fan touched the ball, the ump sent me home!
Will Chimpy use his 11.45 Minneapolis speech to stomp his feet about the FISA bill?
How did we ever become such a silly country? Al Gore seems to think it's because of TV. I don't have a better explanation.
Democrats who voted for the bill:
* Evan Bayh
* Tom Carper
* Bob Casey
* Kent Conrad
* Dianne Feinstein
* Daniel Inouye
* Amy Klobuchar
* Mary Landrieu
* Blanche Lincoln
* Claire McCaskill
* Barbara Mikulski
* Bill Nelson
* Ben Nelson
* Mark Pryor
* Ken Salazar
* Jim Webb
but they hate us for our freedoms ... (and our 1,000,000 to 1 bomb-kill ratio potential)
Here's my scenario: coup in pakistan leads to insertion of US/Israeli special forces teams to sieze pakistani nukes. They recover all of them, but proclaim only partial success, announcing some nukes fell into the hands of terrorists. The gov't retains several pakistani nukes to use when necessary to keep us all terrified and in slavery.
Mikulski's the only one on that list who really surprises me. Although I'm disappointed with Webb, too.
How did we ever become such a silly country? Al Gore seems to think it's because of TV. I don't have a better explanation.
SteveLG | 08.04.07 - 11:34 am | #
The business of turning local tragedies into events worthy of national mourning is part of it. This of course accomplished by the 24 hour cable 'news' assholes needing something to fill their time with.
.
How did we ever become such a silly country? Al Gore seems to think it's because of TV. I don't have a better explanation.
SteveLG | 08.04.07 - 11:34 am | #
anti-intellectualism
Will Chimpy use his 11.45 Minneapolis speech to stomp his feet about the FISA bill?
P O'Neill | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 11:33 am | #
What's he got to stomp about? He's getting everything he wants already.
But of course our Very Serious Media People such as Ken Pollack all think nuking both Iran AND Pakistan is a good idea.
Meanwhile, Benazir Bhutto would like to run Pakistan, but knows that toppling Musharraf is dangerous and irresponsible at this time.
P. O'Neill -- Depends on what the House does today.
Meanwhile, Benazir Bhutto would like to run Pakistan, but knows that toppling Musharraf is dangerous and irresponsible at this time.
I'd hit it.
We need to throw all the bums out, and get all new reps and senators. It'll take the cia a while to kidnap, drug, and take compromising photographs of them engaging in sex with minors, and until then, we'll have a measure of freedom.
I was just thinking about this. Obama's answer should have been, "Only one nation in human history has used nuclear weapons in war, and it was the United States. The result was horrific, and no world leader ever wants to see that happen again."
It's a way to sound anti-nuke without actually committing one way or another. But most importantly, it's an adult answer instead of this ten-year-old warmongering position all of our damned candidates are engaging in.
How did we ever become such a silly country? Al Gore seems to think it's because of TV. I don't have a better explanation.
SteveLG | 08.04.07 - 11:34 am | #
anti-intellectualism
Mike |
I mentioned yesterday a local TV news station is advertising that their weather forecast segments will have less technical jargon. Astonishingly they have bona-fide meteorologists hawking this dumbing down of the weather coverage.
Dare to be stupid.
.
Or, to put it another way, imagine if Pakistani or Iranian politics was dominated by discussion about whether or not nuking the US was "on the table."
These idiots seem to think that the United States is somehow "special" and gets to do and say things that are not OK for anyone else. It amazes me when I hear people whining about the Iranians interfering in Iraq. Suppose the French invaded the US and then complained about Canada or Mexico "interfering" with what they (the French) were doing in the United States?
George Bush will say: "I want to announce plans to re-build this bridge... back to the 18th Century! Where's my throne, bitches?"
(Elected Dems scurry and get King George a throne...)
imagine if Pakistani or Iranian politics was dominated by discussion about whether or not nuking the US was "on the table."
"Why those fuckers, let's make Mecca into glass!"
- Tom Tancredo
These idiots seem to think that the Republican Party is somehow "special" and gets to do and say things that are not OK for anyone else.
Followed your train.
anti-intellectualism
That's always been the case.
I'm Atta J. Turk and I approve this message:
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/
...AdtLvIUagXFps8F
I mentioned yesterday a local TV news station is advertising that their weather forecast segments will have less technical jargon. Astonishingly they have bona-fide meteorologists hawking this dumbing down of the weather coverage.
Dare to be stupid.
.
Agent Orange | 08.04.07 - 11:40 am | #
I'm not so sure it's a bad thing when it come to the weather. Every station here trumpets their "Super Extra Doppler 10000 Radar" and 15-day extended forecasts. It's all so fucking stupid.
Why those fuckers, let's make Mecca into glass!"
- Tom Tancredo
attaturk |
"Shock and Awe" worked really well to tame the Iraqis.
.
What's he got to stomp about? He's getting everything he wants already.
Barbarism Begins at Home
When he is not given what he wants he takes it anyway.
Who ordered the Code Red on Sgt. Tillman?
-
Maybe the Democrats' 2008 campaign message should be:
"Democrats - Getting pwn3d since 2000."
I'm not so sure it's a bad thing when it come to the weather. Every station here trumpets their "Super Extra Doppler 10000 Radar" and 15-day extended forecasts. It's all so fucking stupid.
Barbarism Begins at Home |
Great! So we're back to "it's gonna rain like a cow pissing on a flat rock" stuff.
.
Ten minutes flying over a collapsed bridge = a grasp of a disaster that should've never happened.
Sorry, didn't see that the names had been posted downthread.
My computer was frozen for several frustrating minutes.
Phoenix Woman - near gravatar.
Puppethead - I think that answser by Obama would be seen unnecessarily as America-bashing, not to mention it would ignite a national debate on whether the US was right to drop the bomb.
And that's not a fun one even here at Eschaton.
George Bush will say: "I want to announce plans to re-build this bridge... back to the 18th Century! Where's my throne, bitches?"
(Elected Dems scurry and get King George a throne...)
It's Happening | 08.04.07 - 11:41 am | #
They might as well just get the coronation over with. They already treat him like a king, so why bother with all the pretending?
Courts will strike the surveillance bullshit down.
Dems earning a front row into the McCarthey files...
I'd hit it.
The Kenosha Kid
As long as we're elevating the political discourse, I give you Argentine Presidential front-runner Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner
Will Chimpy use his 11.45 Minneapolis speech to stomp his feet about the FISA bill?
P O'Neill
i don't think i can bear to watch it; you know he'll be inhis gunslinger posture and condescending as hell. and that's bullshit about reviewing it in six months. the presidential campaign will be even more intense by that period and the dems just handed the repukes the issue to take another p.r. beating that they will cave to then.
truly disgraceful.
Sorry - that's "neat gravatar"
Courts will strike the surveillance bullshit down.
the Roberts-Scalito court?
I'm not so sure it's a bad thing when it come to the weather. Every station here trumpets their "Super Extra Doppler 10000 Radar" and 15-day extended forecasts. It's all so fucking stupid.
Barbarism Begins at Home |
Actually this speech should be quite a gem. A real challenge for his writers.
.
I'm Atta J. Turk and I approve this message:
Beau. Tee. Ful.
*sniff*
Oh, SNAP!
I'm listening to Boosh live here in town. He sounds rather confused...
As long as we're elevating the political discourse, I give you Argentine Presidential front-runner Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner
How YOU doin'?!!!
That hand gesture is just crying out for a caption contest.
George Bush himself signed the Tillman Silver Star recommendation, only his signature isn't his signature, or something like that...
As long as we're elevating the political discourse, I give you Argentine Presidential front-runner Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner
SteveLG |
Buenos Tacos!
.
Bush: We're going into murky waters to "find facts".
Not victims, mind you...facts.
"Democrats - Getting pwn3d since 2000."
Jennifer
As someone pointed out recently, it's only because the public was so clearly and strongly behind Bill Clinton that the democrats didn't acquiesce in his impeachment and conviction.
They'd have sold him out in a heartbeat, otherwise.
As long as we're elevating the political discourse, I give you Argentine Presidential front-runner Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner.
Hey maybe they'll let me move down there.
I can claim I'm a relative.
If this country is turning into Argentina (in the bad days) I might as well live in the original.
How did we ever become such a silly country?
SteveLG
1. Most people are stupid/slaves
2. Abundance of natural/prized resources
3. The fear/hate gene
4. Some people are smarter/greedy evil-fucks
WAR GOOD!!PEE PEE BIG!!!!
Or, to put it another way, imagine if Pakistani or Iranian politics was dominated by discussion about whether or not nuking the US was "on the table."
A key component of the neocon/wingnut mind is a profound inability to "imagine".
Ten minutes flying over a collapsed bridge = a grasp of a disaster that should've never happened.
Zap Rowsdower, Own3r
Hey, he has Coleman's fundraiser to get to (his already scheduled trip to Minneapolis).
Great! So we're back to "it's gonna rain like a cow pissing on a flat rock" stuff.
.
Agent Orange | 08.04.07 - 11:44 am | #
That's fine with me. Do you really need a weatherman to tell you that it's gonna be hot as shit on August the 4th?
If there's a hurricane or tornado headed my way, by all means let me know, otherwise, it's all just nonsense. On my cable there's the Weather Channel, Weather Channel Local, TWO local 24 hour weather channels, not to mention the 25% of every local news broadcast.
It's overkill, IMO.
I'm listening to Boosh live here in town. He sounds rather confused...
Well, that's no surprise.
I just listened to about 10 seconds of the deal.
He's repeating the Katrina speech.
It's clear Bush is a sociopath, he doesn't understand how to have empathy for others. When he pretends to care it really sounds forced, artificial and confused.
Bush:
"God bless the people in this part of the world."
He doesn't even know where he is.
Support Bridges not War!
The Kenosha Kid
...at least its an ethos.
As long as we're elevating the political discourse, I give you Argentine Presidential front-runner Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner
SteveLG | 08.04.07 - 11:45 am | #
Now that's what I'm talking about.
Bush:
"God bless the people in this part of the world."
Cheney:
"The rest of you can go fuck yourselves."
It's clear Bush is a sociopath, he doesn't understand how to have empathy for others. When he pretends to care it really sounds forced, artificial and confused.
puppethead | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 11:50 am | #
It's been clear for years.
Chimpy: "God bless the people of this part of the world."
What about the people in the librul enclaves? Are we all doomed?
Oh, Amy Klobuchar is in town. Maybe I can go talk to her about how angry I am over her FISA vote.
From Christy at FDL:
It’s time to hit the phone lines, boys and girls. The House will be taking up the FISA legislation — and I refuse to allow the Constitution and probable cause to go down without a fight. So let’s hit the phones, shall we? (H/T to katymine for the numbers)
1 (800) 828 - 0498
1 (800) 459 - 1887
1 (800) 614 - 2803
1 (866) 340 - 9281
1 (866) 338 - 1015
1 (877) 851 - 6437
Please take some time today to call your elected representative and tell them that you don’t trust the Bush Administration, and neither should they. And while you are at it, let the leadership know that as well:
Speaker Nancy Pelosi, (202) 225-4965
Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, (202) 225-4131
W wants the I-35W bridge built "better than ever."
Yep, that would be good!
that fucking bridge will be rebuilt before the repub convention there next summer. otherwise it will overshadow their stupid bullshit...
Maybe I can go talk to her about how angry I am over her FISA vote.
No effin' shit!
Just baffles me.
Oh, Amy Klobuchar is in town. Maybe I can go talk to her about how angry I am over her FISA vote.
puppethead | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 11:51 am | #
She lives near Brasa on East Hennepin. She goes there for lunch and dinner a lot.
That's fine with me. Do you really need a weatherman to tell you that it's gonna be hot as shit on August the 4th?
No but I need a weatherman to tell me that if it's NOT going to be hot as shit on August 4th if that's happening and maybe a little info on why.
.
It's clear Bush is a sociopath, he doesn't understand how to have empathy for others. When he pretends to care it really sounds forced, artificial and confused.
That's exactly it. He's a phony bag of crap.
Back to the FISA bill that passed in the Senate, I'd not rule out the fact that many Dems voted for it just so they could go on vacation.
Pelosi's mailbox is full, as was my DINOcrat Senator's (DC and local)
Any new bridge should have provisions for either light rail or a bus lane at the very least.
A resident of the area said the bridge wasn't expected to be rebuilt for at least 2 years. Besides, then the GOP can try milking an ancient tragedy next summer!
W wants the I-35W bridge built "better than ever."
Yep, that would be good!
plantsman, areligious
"It'll be better than new. Much much better than new!"
.
She lives near Brasa on East Hennepin. She goes there for lunch and dinner a lot.
No shit?
I may have to "stop by"...
Mark Twain is back from the grave, inspired by Bushco. to write again:
Death on the Mississippi
This FISA vote kinda snuck up on me. There goes my weekend.
You know, if they're not going to read bills or debate, they should be allowed to vote from outside DC.
21st C. baby.
Time for the 10@10 marathon!
Right now, it's 1975, and they're playing "Rock Show" by Wings - who celebrated their 36th anniversary yesterday!
FISA vote - water under what was left of the bridge.
Just baffles me.
Zap Rowsdower, Own3r
She's a prosecutor, her vote was reasonable from a law enforcement standpoint. Except for the part about giving more power to the lawless Bush government, she made a bad decision based on the wrong politics.
And it's a real pisser that so much of the bridge was newly repaved when it fell into the river...
just imagine the goods that the nsa has on all the members of congress with their black on black eavesdropping program.
and, we wonder why the dems cave on it???
gee... let me think.
Every time I see that the Democrats caved on the Surveillance bill bile rises to the top of my throat. They won't get another dime out of me until they change leadership or get another set of balls. I'm done with them and that's what I will tell the DNC when they call. I don't pay for pussies.
I emailed DiFi about the FISA vote. Clearly, the lacquer on her helmet hair has become impenetrable!
i'm going to drop another logic bomb into their search engine...
Any new bridge should have provisions for either light rail or a bus lane at the very least.
I can assure you that it WON'T have a light rail provision.
And I can almost assure you that it won't have a bus lane.
You think the feds will spring for something so communist?
Plus, where's it gonna go? Nobody in that part of the metro uses the bus; and they're less willing to support a train. It's gonna have to be inter-city, like it's been planned.
"just imagine the goods that the nsa has on all the members of congress with their black on black eavesdropping program."
It seems the american people vastly underestimate the use of blackmail in our government
I think the dems cave left and right just so they can keep their jobs
2nd email of the day to Reid:
Dear Senate Majority Leader:
Why did you agree to thrown our freedoms away, giving control to, of all people, Alberto "I can't recall, I don't know, I have no memory at all" Gonzales? And to BushCo Inc.?
Some things used to be sacred, like our Constitution and our Bill of Rights. Was it Benjamin Franklin who told us, a mere couple centuries ago, that "We have a Republic, if we can keep it"?
Why does the Democratic Party hand power to this monarchically tending president?
I am so deeply disappointed in my party. How is this happening? Because Dems are afraid of Bush and Rove and the Mighty Wulitzer of the MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media?
I am so angry and so disappointed in my party. We elected Dems to represent us and our Constitution against Bush and his monarchical tendencies--and we have no bulwark. None at all.
To the House!
jawbone, Citizen and Democrat
"Light-Rail to Nowhere" It's kinda catchy!
Jim, I've taken to snail mail to contact them.
Why is Pelosi not getting the message? We're their bosses. They're supposed to do what we require.
And if you were Iranian and heard the Clinton and Tancredo remarks, wouldn't you tell your nuclear scientists to start putting in overtime? Wouldn't such talk actually spur nuclear proliferation in the Muslim world?
Why should it? The remarks show that Pakistan's nukes don't deter us, so why would Iran's?
It's stupid to say nukes are on the table, but not for that reason.
Except for the part about giving more power to the lawless Bush government, she made a bad decision based on the wrong politics.
No president should have that kind of power...period.
That should be in spite of this mal-administration.
I think the dems cave left and right just so they can keep their jobs
Yes, but we employ them, and we're not pleased.
That fact that Clinton agrees with Tancredo should convince anyone that she triangulates like a geometry student on acid.
So many people here have told me the only answer is to nuke them all I'm no longer shocked when I hear it. And DE is a blue state.
Still puzzled that the MN recovery effort has no federal support, although the chimp flew over the site today by helicopter, possibly to pray.
Sheriff's office coordinating divers, some volunteers. Bad current, etc, you'd think they'd get in some expert help. Or that feds would offer it.
I think the dems cave left and right just so they can keep their jobs
Mike |
Being a US Congressman has got to be one of the greatest jobs on Earth. It's like being a little Don Corleone. People come to you constantly seeking favors that you can make happen for the right 'price' followed by cash donations.
.
Heartlessness has reached epidemic proportions among the rat wing, accommodation to tyranny on the left.
"Light-Rail to Nowhere" It's kinda catchy!
plantsman, areligious
We need a Monorail!
Still puzzled that the MN recovery effort has no federal support, although the chimp flew over the site today by helicopter, possibly to pray.
House ok'd 250 million for bridge replacement yesterday...
Monica,
Good points, but it is worth noting that the vast majority of Dems opposed this bill. "Some Democrats" caved but it is not quite true that "the Democrats caved."
I think the important now is to work the House of Representatives and stiffen the spines of those on the fence.
"Why is Pelosi not getting the message? We're their bosses."
No, we're not. We just think we are. She got the message all right. From her real bosses.
"Light-Rail to Nowhere" It's kinda catchy!
It needs to be framed better, something like Ronald Reagan Memorial Rail.
The defining characteristic of Americans is the inability to apply to themselves the standards they apply to others. In other words, they're a bunch of fucking relativists, which they profess to hate.
Being a US Congressman has got to be one of the greatest jobs on Earth. It's like being a little Don Corleone. People come to you constantly seeking favors that you can make happen for the right 'price' followed by cash donations.
Well they fucked up this time because they will not see another of Honey's pennies until they show some fucking semblance of being an opposition party.
If we're not the rightful employers of members of Congress, why are we bothering?
I ask this mostly out of frustration. I'm hardly ready to throw in the towel, but I am profoundly tired.
I'm wondering if this is the way it's been all along, and the Bush Junta just brought it all out into the light.
I never get fundraising calls, though I'm a frequent (if very small) donor to individual campaigns.
I wonder if using ActBlue gets you eliminated from a DNC list?
So many people here have told me the only answer is to nuke them all I'm no longer shocked when I hear it. And DE is a blue state.
ql-was in NY
Yeah, they seem to be confused about who invaded whose country. Those damn sand niggers ought to be grateful that we came in and killed their relatives and destroyed their infrastructure. Bunch of ingrate bastards.
attagurl, honeybear...
There is no provision for any type of light rail or bus lane on the new bridge.
The budget will not permit such superfluous items. However, as directed by the highest level of federal authority, the new bridge will include a porch for Trent Lott and VIP visitors.
That is all.
Hello. There is no Federal Department of Transportation engaged in building anything. There ARE State Depts. of Transportation, however.
House ok'd 250 million for bridge replacement yesterday...
Zap Rowsdower, Own3r | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 12:01 pm | #
Seems like an awful lot of money.
.
I get calls from the DNC all the time. They are not seeing another dime until they get their act together.
I know, good luck on that one.
Thank goodness Minneapolis only has about 1,000 bridges!
Otherwise fixing them would be difficult!
Sheriff's office coordinating divers, some volunteers. Bad current, etc, you'd think they'd get in some expert help. Or that feds would offer it.
el
Don't really need the federal help. The sort-of neglected story is the spectacular emergency response. And the Sheriff's Department has a lot of experience with the river, it's a normal part of their work. Finally, they are getting help from the Army Corps of Engineers to lower the river level and try and ease the currents (there's a lock and dam less than a mile upriver).
Still puzzled that the MN recovery effort has no federal support, although the chimp flew over the site today by helicopter, possibly to pray.
It's so when the big one hits Florida or NO again, the mass majority of people will not expect the feds to do anything. FEMA should be renamed REAMA. as in REAM a new asshole.
Do any of these morons understand the kind of conflagration a nuke in an oil-rich area might unleash, let alone the radiation?
I get mail from Schumer's DSCC all the time.
Next time they'll get an empty envelope with the message "no cojones, no dinero" in it.
"I'm wondering if this is the way it's been all along, and the Bush Junta just brought it all out into the light."
Yes.
I think the only possible basis for hope, any at all, is a) getting involved in local politics, and b) pushing for government devolution and decentralization.
So many people here have told me the only answer is to nuke them all I'm no longer shocked when I hear it. And DE is a blue state.
ql-was in NY
I like to then suggest that maybe Saddam Hussein had the right idea about "killing his own people". To bad we sent 4,000 American soldiers to their deaths to get rid of him.
That pisses them off.
.
Seems like an awful lot of money.
I think it also includes costs for clean up...
I get mail from Schumer's DSCC all the time.
I told them to fuck off when they pussy-footed on Lieberman. IIRC there's an "unsubscribe" button on their mail. I used to give ten dollars a month to the DNC, too. Told them to fuck off, and why, at the same time. The poor intern who got my phone call was not hearing that for the first time, was my impression.
I still give to individual campaigns, including, lamentably, four of the people on the latest Vichy list.
Well they fucked up this time because they will not see another of Honey's pennies until they show some fucking semblance of being an opposition party.
HoneyBearKelly
At least both your senators voted the right way. One of mine voted correctly, the other, a fucking Dem caved. And the lone congresscritter from DE is a rethug who claims to be moderate but votes with his colleagues every time.
100 million americans on the internet could (if they tried) easily surpass the cia in intelligence gathering and analysis and easily surpass homeland security in preventing attacks on american soil.
The government knows this, why don't we?
But, but, Saddam had balsa-wood UAVs capable of dropping the Nuclear bombs he had on the US *homeland* in 45 minutes, didn't he?
Sent this love letter to the DSCC:
To whom it may concern,
I kindly ask that you remove my name from your mailing list. I cannot in good consciousness give money to a political party that continues to cave in to this corrupt administration. Perhaps when the Democratic party begins to respect the right of citizens of the United States not to be spied upon by its own government and fight against such acts, I will be able to contribute again. Until that time please remove the following address from your lists:
Sincerely,
Monica (last named blocked out for national security reasons)
Do any of these morons understand the kind of conflagration a nuke in an oil-rich area might unleash, let alone the radiation?
Whatever oil is left will require the hightest tech space suits available to obtain.
The kind we've been 'researching' for visiting 'Mars'...
and were recently given to Halliburton.
Well, just called Pelosis's number and no one answering, goes to mail box which is full.
Any way to contact these beeyotches over the weekend?
Seems like an awful lot of money.
I think it also includes costs for clean up...
Also, Halliburton needs to pay for the new sign on the bridge, naming it the Wonderful George W Bush and Dick Cheney Gift to the American People.
And the lone congresscritter from DE is a rethug who claims to be moderate but votes with his colleagues every time.
ql-was in NY
Mike Castle? Yeah, he's an Olly Snowe Republican. Living in a fantasy world where there's still such a thing as an "Eisenhower Republican".
Useless, deluded fools.
I think the only possible basis for hope, any at all, is a) getting involved in local politics, and b) pushing for government devolution and decentralization.
Gee. Just like Grover Norquist!
But, but, Saddam had balsa-wood UAVs capable of dropping the Nuclear bombs he had on the US *homeland* in 45 minutes, didn't he?
plantsman, areligious
Have you ever been hit on the head with an aluminum tube? Man that can really hurt! Saddam had crates full of them.
.
I can't get no Yearly Kos on either cspan 1 or 2. What's up with that?
Goddam AEI or Cato or Heritage Foundation are on c-span all the time. WTF!
I feel bad for Dr. Dean. He helps these fuckers regain the majority and they proceed to fuck it up. If I were Howard, I'd run for the Senate and then run for the leadership position. Stupid fucks!
Agent Orange @ 12:06pm--Fookin' brilliant!
Can't wait to use that line!
I ran full clip into a tether-ball pole once,
Any way to contact these beeyotches over the weekend?
jawbone
Email. And fax? Seems to me during one of the judicial nominations, it was said faxes was the best way to contact them, because snail mail is screened for anthrax and email just gets deleted when they're overwhelmed.
Faxes can be counted, was the theory. Who knows?
House ok'd 250 million for bridge replacement yesterday...
Zap Rowsdower, Own3r
We told them we be cutting our own throat with that measly sum for our no-bid contract.
Dick said they felt real bad about it and all.
Strib columnist Nick Coleman:
If you think everyone should play nice about it, you are living in Pollyanna Land. We are in a bare-knuckled political brawl in this country, and the government is in the hands of government haters who want to starve it or, in the alleged belief of presidential ally Grover Norquist, want to "drown it."
You can't drown government. It is people who drown.
Friday, the Taxpayers League -- the heart of the No New Taxes beast -- called on us not to point fingers. They probably disconnected their phone and took down their sign, too.
Gee. Just like Grover Norquist!
plantsman, areligious | 08.04.07 - 12:09 pm | #
It's quite possible.
This is why I would rather have Ron Paul as president than any of the announced candidates.
The progressive agenda may suffer a bit, but 4 or 8 years of Ron Paul could be the shock treatment this country needs.
Meanwhile, Benazir Bhutto, who ran the country and knows what the fuck she's talking about, would like to run Pakistan, but knows that toppling Musharraf is dangerous and irresponsible at this time.
They know. They don't want to think about the depth of their betrayal of the Constitution.
I've got the most worthless, shamefully Liebermanesque senators, both of whom made the list. Lincoln and Pryor, the proud inheiritors of seats once ably filled by Dale Bumpers and David Pryor (Mark's dad - who must feel like puking every time his son votes). It's the same story everywhere...the people who are in office now are there by and large because big money wanted them there, and they promised big money not to do anything even slightly even-handed or progressive before big money wrote the check to buy the office for them.
FReeper calls for "engineering innovations":
Paradoxically, when I drive up and down Interstate 81 this summer every friggin' bridge seems to be under repair, along with half the road surface. Interstate 81 is nearly a de facto two lane road rather than a superhighway.
This situation screams for engineering innovation. We need a way to repair/replace bridges with less disruption. How about a civilian version of the portable Army bridge (Wolverine?). Something that could temporarily carry the load while the permanent span is repaired. It wouldn't work for the longest spans but we need creative solutions.
How about using old aircraft carriers? Use the flight decks as bridges. Two of them, one on each bank, with a temporary span between them to allow river traffic to pass. 800-1000 ft.each plus a 100+ ft span and you could bridge a significant gap.
Mark Twain could pilot the aircraft carriers up the Mississippi.
Benazir Bhutto was drummed out of office, was she not?
Mike, I think Ron Paul's 'shock treatment' is exactly what we don't need. Progressive values have already suffered enough.
Let's stop complaining about this shit. Let's start doing something about it. Perhaps we should start entering or finding netroots people interested politics. Serious start handing out money to these candidates sans DNC or DSCC. It's nice to sit and talk about it, but it's even nicer to be able to affect change. Let them see how serious we are.
Agreed, Sallyh. The cost savings garnered by Social Security and Medicare are directly related to their centralized nature. Diffuse is obtuse.
Update: no new bridge is required after all. Instead, plans have been drawn up to build a wall along the entire length of the Mississippi. One on each bank, in fact.
River-crossing will be accomplished by means of secure ferry stations, operated by Halliburton/KBR. TSA agents will man the checkpoints. This will foreclose the possibility of future bridge collapses as well as prevent the influx of illegal immigrants snorkeling up the Delta.
That is all.
Mike, I think Ron Paul's 'shock treatment' is exactly what we don't need. Progressive values have already suffered enough.
Sallyh
Wasn't that the exact argument the Greens made in supporting Nader?
How about using old aircraft carriers? Use the flight decks as bridges. Two of them, one on each bank, with a temporary span between them to allow river traffic to pass. 800-1000 ft.each plus a 100+ ft span and you could bridge a significant gap.
LO effin' L!!!!
Those freepers know everything
Benazir Bhutto was drummed out of office, was she not?
More like "you have fifteen minutes to get on that plane before we start shooting your children".
Gee. Just like Grover Norquist!
No. Grover Norquist wants corporations to retain rights of personhood.
Actually, he only wants corporations to retain rights of personhood, and then people can appeal to corporations to try to vote in the interest of people.
Kind of like what we have now, except that the 'political parties' will be called Banks & Corps instead of Dems & Repubs.
Meanwhile, people will actually lose their liberties & rights while the Banks & Corps decide what works best for them.
Wait...
"Bowen said the study revealed some vulnerabilities that would allow hackers to manipulate the systems "with little chance of detection and with dire consequences." Her review also found that the machines posed problems for disabled voters."
Damn--I've never managed to get my fax function working--now I could really use it. Damn.
Mike, I think Ron Paul's 'shock treatment' is exactly what we don't need. Progressive values have already suffered enough.
Sallyh for Hussein, Grandmere | 08.04.07 - 12:14 pm | #
Perhaps, but it seems to me your operating with an assumption that there's a shred of decency in any more than a small handful of congresspeople.
I don't think so. This country is not gonna get better. As long as we continue to play our masters' games, the only thing we can hope for is to slightly slow down the rate at which things will get worse.
Dear Freepers:
The highway is elevated, what are you gonna do, tie balloons to the aircraft carriers?
This just in from Planet Wack-a-doo (Bill Kristol)
For the Iraq war's opponents, July began as a month of hope. It ended in retreat. It began with Democratic unity in proclaiming the inevitability of American defeat. It ended with respected military analysts -- Democrats, no less! -- reporting that the situation on the ground had improved, and that the war might be winnable. It began with a plan for a series of votes in Congress that were supposed to stampede nervous Republicans against the continued prosecution of the war. It ended with the GOP spine stiffened, no antiwar legislation passed, and the Democratic Congress adjourning in disarray, with approval ratings lower than President Bush's.
It would be hard to underestimate the damage those two nitwits O'Hanlon and Pollack did with one exceedingly dishonest editorial.
Update: no new bridge is required after all. Instead, plans have been drawn up to build a wall along the entire length of the Mississippi. One on each bank, in fact.
I think ramps on each side of the river might work. Tell everyone to go really fast and make like Evel Knievel when they reach the other side.
.
Fux Style Econ 101.
oh, any my "representative" if Freulingheysen, stalward Rethug back bencher who never knows how he's going to vote, per his office--until he gets his orders from the Rethug leadership.
What a minion.
How about using old aircraft carriers? Use the flight decks as bridges. Two of them, one on each bank, with a temporary span between them to allow river traffic to pass. 800-1000 ft.each plus a 100+ ft span and you could bridge a significant gap.
Mark Twain could pilot the aircraft carriers up the Mississippi.
LOL. You could also just turn the midwest into a sheet of glass with enough nukes. Then you wouldn't need bridges.
"Christine Jennings contested her 369-vote loss in the 13th District, asking a judge to order a new election because of problems in Sarasota County, where more than 17,000 voters who cast ballots in other races Nov. 7 did not do so in the congressional contest."
More god news from Steny Hoyer's War:
* BASRA - A large fire broke out in Basra where British forces said they had struck a disused oil installation, returning fire after insurgents launched rockets or mortar rounds at an Iraqi security forces headquarters. A British military spokesman said there were no British or Iraqi military casualties.
BAGHDAD - Three people were wounded when two mortar bombs hit al-Firdous square in central Baghdad, police said.
BAGHDAD - A mortar bomb wounded one person in al-Salhiya district in central Baghdad, police said.
ANBAR - A U.S. Marine died in combat in western Anbar province on Thursday, the U.S. military said.
KIRKUK - Gunmen killed one Iraqi police officer in front of his house in Kirkuk, 250 km (155 miles) north of Baghdad, on Friday, police said.
AL-RASHAD - A roadside bomb wounded one policeman in the town of al-Rashad south of Kirkuk, police said.
HASWA - Gunmen killed one person in a drive-by shooting in Haswa, 50 km (30 miles) south of Baghdad, on Friday, police said.
JBELA - One Iraqi soldier and another person were wounded in clashes between armed groups in Jbela, 65 km (40 miles) south of Baghdad, on Friday, police said.
HAWIJA - Gunmen wounded an Iraqi soldier in a drive-by shooting in Hawija, 70 km (45 miles) southwest of Kirkuk, police said.
KIRKUK - A roadside bomb targeting a police patrol wounded three people in Kirkuk, police said.
Mike, I agree that things are in disarray. But I don't think Ron Paul's the guy to do it.
How about using old aircraft carriers? Use the flight decks as bridges. Two of them, one on each bank, with a temporary span between them to allow river traffic to pass. 800-1000 ft.each plus a 100+ ft span and you could bridge a significant gap.
Let me guess: Deputy Commissioner for Reconstruction in Iraq.
Dear Freepers:
The highway is elevated, what are you gonna do, tie balloons to the aircraft carriers?
Silly! This is how they expect you to drive across:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l...h?
v=lR2ZN9PpT5E
Actuaoly if you incorporate yourself you gain insulation vs. eavesropping and wiretaps. You get enough standing to challenge in court according to the current flavor of security being subcontracted...
Mike, I agree that things are in disarray. But I don't think Ron Paul's the guy to do it.
Agreed. It's sorta like asking Hitler to sort out the problems caused by WWI and the Weimar Republic.
Gawd, I wish MSNBC wasn't being squeezed so hard by GE and could afford some new original programming!
You're in fine fettle today, Agent Orange--made me laugh so wickedly scared the Maine Coon cat out of the room!
Silly! This is how they expect you to drive across:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l...h? v=lR2ZN9PpT5E
Monica_A: Superdevil
Looked OK to me?
.
Wasn't that the exact argument the Greens made in supporting Nader?
ql-was in NY
Remind us all...
What was the exact argument for supporting...
Liebreman in 2000?
Glass Jaw Skull & Bones in 2004?
And, pray tell...
how will justify voting for Billary Bush in 2008?
Because this 'election' nonsense is only about coronation of the continuation of the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton dynasty after all.
Haven't you figured it out yet?
Wasn't that the exact argument the Greens made in supporting Nader?
I think it was the exact same argument that the Left made about how corrupted the Democratic Party has become.
Mike, I agree that things are in disarray. But I don't think Ron Paul's the guy to do it.
Sallyh for Hussein, Grandmere | 08.04.07 - 12:19 pm | #
I agree with you. But I can support Ron Paul as a transition. Shake everything up, and when it settles, there's a *chance* it will be better than it is now.
There's a lot of interlocking things that need to be broken, mostly involving money and/or blackmail. Voting isn't enough to break these chains.
You're in fine fettle today, Agent Orange--made me laugh so wickedly scared the Maine Coon cat out of the room!
jawbone |
My fettles are unusually fine today.
.
'Mamber when cars had bumpers that actually did something?
Time for me to go. My husband needs a new car. He's think about another BMW. Surprisingly, we get really good gas mileage on the two we have now.
What was the exact argument for supporting...
Liebreman in 2000?
The anti-Clinton moral compass in the White House.
.
Thinking about. To hell with the kids! Is our adults learning?
Dammit!
I'm watching clips of Revenge of the Nerds on YouTube.
What's wrong with me?
How about using old aircraft carriers? Use the flight decks as bridges. Two of them, one on each bank, with a temporary span between them to allow river traffic to pass. 800-1000 ft.each plus a 100+ ft span and you could bridge a significant gap.
And there is the genius of the 28% of true believers.
What was the exact argument for supporting...
Liebreman in 2000?
The anti-Clinton moral compass in the White House.
Then how about a Buddhist a Vice-President?
Time for me to go. My husband needs a new car. He's think about another BMW. Surprisingly, we get really good gas mileage on the two we have now.
Monica_A: Superdevil | 08.04.07 - 12:23 pm | #
See if you can wait till the boosh admin is over before buying a new car. I've been waiting since 2001.
Millions of corks from wine bottles are needlessly thrown away every year.
What if we glued them all together?
Presto - instant bridge!
Do I have to think of everything?
Zap: Bridge Tragedy Fatigue.
Rumor has it that Michael D. Brown is coming out of retirement to accept a position as US Bridge Czar.
In other news, L. Paul Bremer III has been spotted rowing a dinghy up the Mississippi without a paddle, towing a buoy stuffed with hundred-dollar bills.
That is all.
Zap: Bridge Tragedy Fatigue.
plantsman, areligious
Like airplane crashes, the final failure analysis report should be interesting.
.
Haven't you figured it out yet?
Dems=Repubes
Nope.
If Gore had been been allowed to assume the office he was elected to, we never would have gone into Iraq and we would have a decent conservation program running apace.'
If Kerry had been allowed to assume the office he was elected to we would be out of Iraq and we would have a decent conservation program in place.
Millions of corks from wine bottles are needlessly thrown away every year.
Thousands of illegal immigrants, made to form a human pyramid, with boards put across their backs would make an excellent temporary bridge, and alleviate the immigration problem at the same time.
Bridge Tragedy Fatigue.
Must be, plantsman.
"Look, guys...wonderjoints!"
Brownie tugs his maroon Nordstrom polo tighter across his midriff. "I am a fashion god!" he ejaculates.
I think Al Gore's going to have to run.
So the GOP gained or held five total House seats on diebold and the Derms caved to Dubya on the Senate, while Hillary gave plausible nukular cover to AWOL on Pakistan the week he bombs 350 Afghan civilians...
Chertoff had a "gut feeling" that something like this would happen, but he didn't tell anyone because of all the guff he took from the dirty hippy crowd. Thanks, lefties!.
I'm watching clips of Revenge of the Nerds on YouTube.
That's a very inpsirational movie.
They may have have to screen that should Gore ever win.
The anti-Clinton moral compass in the White House.
Ah, you mean the faux anti-Clinton moral compass... as opposed to the actual Clinton who voted to give Bush his war?
It's time you faced the truth: Bill Clinton (as he's made very plain on several occassions) LOVES George Bush and the Bush Family.
He really, really does.
Why, without them, there'd be no him!
He owes them and they owe him.
Friendships work that way.
Even if some fools can't see past the professional wrestling routines used to trick you into thinking there's a dime's worth of difference.
Chertoff doesn't have a gut; he hardly has a face.
Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), chairman of the House Appropriations defense panel, has secured the most earmarked dollars in the 2008 military spending bill, followed closely by the panel's ranking member Rep. Bill Young (R-Fla.)," the Hill reports:
Even though Young secured 52 earmarks, worth $117.2 million--and co-sponsored at least $27 million worth of others--Murtha's 48 earmarks amount to a total of $150.5 million, according to a database compiled by the watchdog organization Taxpayers for Common Sense (TCS).
I'm so disillusioned. I really thought the Democrats would be different!
CoT, hey, I love that movie 
And the geeks shall inherit the earth.
*Afghanistani
If Gore had been been allowed to assume the office he was elected to, we never would have gone into Iraq and we would have a decent conservation program running apace.'
If parallel universes exist it would be nice to compare the US of today and the Al Gore / John Kerry US of the other.
If Americans could experience both, which would they choose as our fate?
.
More from Mr. Murder's link--pretty WOWsome.
Bowen said she had decertified the machines, then recertified them on the condition they meet her new security standards. She also limited the Diebold and Sequoia machines to one per polling place. That will force some counties to find replacement equipment on a tight schedule.
Bowen ordered the review, which was released last week, to ensure California would not face the same doubts about the accuracy of its voting systems that hit Florida after the 2000 election and Ohio in 2004.
The additional requirements she imposed included banning all modem or wireless connections to the machines to prevent them from being linked to an outside computer or the Internet. She also required a full manual count of all votes cast on Diebold or Sequoia machines to ensure accuracy.
Bowen said the study revealed some vulnerabilities that would allow hackers to manipulate the systems "with little chance of detection and with dire consequences." Her review also found that the machines posed problems for disabled voters. SNIP
Machines made by a fourth company, Election Systems & Software, were not included in the review because it was late providing information the secretary of state's office needed said Nicole Winger, a spokeswoman for Bowen.
The secretary of state launched a separate review of that company's Inkavote Plus system, which is used only in Los Angeles County. On Friday, Bowen said she had decertified that equipment but would review and reconsider it.
If you'd been paying attention to what the GOP has wrought, you'd know there's a boatload of difference.
Chertoff had a "gut feeling" that something like this would happen, but he didn't tell anyone because of all the guff he took from the dirty hippy crowd. Thanks, lefties!.
General Zod | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 12:29 pm | #
Or, maybe, Chertoff's rumbling in his gut was another test of the acoustic weaponry, and they told him they test it on him again but all full power if he didn't go along.
I'm watching clips of Revenge of the Nerds on YouTube.
That's a very inpsirational movie.
They may have have to screen that should Gore ever win.
Culture of TrÜth
"I consider myself to be a nerd."
Murtha likes the military, he always has.
No Prob, ES&S counts paper ballots, subtraction by addition.
Meanwhile the Cali diebold machines get shipped to other states...
If parallel universes exist it would be nice to compare the US of today and the Al Gore / John Kerry US of the other.
If Americans could experience both, which would they choose as our fate?
.
Agent Orange | 08.04.07 - 12:30 pm | #
Uh, I'll take the Gore universe thanks. Unlike the universe of gore we live in now.
We're all Chomsky now.
btw: I'm assuming St Hagel of the Shoehorns (Maverick-NE) voted against the principle of separation of powers?
We're all Chomsky now.
FreshgravesforFriedman | 08.04.07 - 12:33 pm | #
He's another devolutionist. It ain't just folks like norquist.
"Meanwhile, an unofficial tally in New Mexico's 1st District shows Rep. Heather A. Wilson (R) winning her race against Patricia Madrid by 879 votes, out of more than 210,000 cast. The results were scheduled to be finalized late Monday."
aiight. Blood sugar low. Needta eat. You bats be good to one another!
If Gore had been been allowed to assume the office he was elected to, we never would have gone into Iraq and we would have a decent conservation program running apace.'
If Gore had been allowed to RETAIN office, meaning, didn't visit Dallas in an open motorcade...
because then we'd have President Lieberman doing what Bush is doing.
Because the truth is, without Lieberman - Gore would have had an undeniable win, but Gore caved and picked Joe 'Let's Invade Iraq!' Lieberman.
As for Kerry... again, have you never seen the WWE?
Do you not get how this shit works?
It's called DYNASTY.
Some people are hired to 'fail'...
Just like Glass Jaw Skull & Bones Kerry.
"In Ohio's 2nd District, a few counties began counting provisional and absentee ballots in the race between Rep. Jean Schmidt (R) and Victoria Wulsin. Schmidt led by about 2,800 votes, though nearly 9,000 votes could remain to be counted in the district."
Echo Beach just came on the radio.
Excuse me while I jump around the living room for a bit.
Thousands of College Republicans, made to form a human pyramid, with boards put across their backs would make an excellent temporary bridge, and alleviate the chickenhawk problem at the same time.
"In Ohio's 15th District, Rep. Deborah Pryce (R) was ahead of Mary Jo Kilroy by more than 3,500 votes. About 19,000 ballots remain to be counted, with results expected next week."
Echo Beach just came on the radio.
Excuse me while I jump around the living room for a bit.
HoneyBearKelly?
I smiled just reading that.
To the youtube!
It's an Echo Beach needin' kind of day.
"In North Carolina's 8th District, election officials were recounting votes that last week gave Rep. Robin Hayes (R) a 339-vote lead against Larry Kissell. Kissell is considering a hand recount."
war on terror 101:
just what was it again that americans are 'terrified' of???
if all the nukes are accounted for, what's to be terrified of? a conventional bomb going off somewhere? i mean, c'mon...
america is on it's knee's waiting for another building to get hit, or another plane to be hijaced. we have millions more of both. as george the lesser said perfectly. 'bring it on'...
our dem leaders have no ability to stand up and say, 'we're not terrified'!
or the short version of terror 101:
See FDR quote. we have nothing to fear, but...
Generalissimo Dunkin Atrios-Donut advises General David Petraeus on his conduct of the Iraq War:
"Surrender now, General, your so-called "surge" is only antagonizing the jihadists. Why can't military people be pacifists, like my netroot idolizers?"
Just over 1,500 votes decided three races for the GOP via diebold from late certification.
More than that vanished from Sarasota County in and of itself.
Again, 100% error in favor of one side...
Lieberman did not fully reveal his Rethuglican nature until 9/11--but he gave hints during his VP debate with Cheney when he was so insufferably amiable and jocular and practically fluffing Cheney. I was screaming at my TV, begging him top bring up Cheney's votes against Head Start (right? or was it school breakfasts for poor kids?), supporting cop killer bullets for everyone, etc.
Ol' Joe didn't bring up anything uncomfortable for Cheney. When Gore had the election stolen, my only consolation was that Lieberman was not VP. And that was not very consoling.
But, the mention above that Gore might have been given his "Dallas moment" might be on the money. If they couldn't have assassinated Clinton's character, a good friend kept telling me they would have assassinated Clinton.
Democrats win: "absolutely kosher"
Democrats lose: "GOP VOTE FRAUD!!!!!"
[hilarity..]
Again, 100% error in favor of one side...
Which is a statistical impossibility.
Lieberman showed his pompous ass during clinton's impeachment.
Lube-and-yank-you has all of the answers!
Bow to his general expertise!!!
Harry Reid is not in my good books today.
On the other hand, I pity the poor NSA clown who has to listen to my overseas calls.
onward christian soldiers...:
Officers' Roles in Christian Video Are Called Ethics Breach
By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, August 4, 2007; A08
The Defense Department's inspector general has found that four generals and three other military officers improperly participated in a fundraising video for an evangelical Christian group, inappropriately offering support for the religious organization while appearing to operate within the scope of their official government duties, according to a 47-page investigative report.
Investigators concluded that the officers should not have participated in the filming in 2005 of a 10-minute video for Christian Embassy, a nonprofit religious group, which ultimately used the video as a fundraising tool. While Christian Embassy has hosted prayer meetings at the Pentagon for years, the inspector general concluded that the officers' endorsement of its activities -- while in uniform, showing their rank and in the halls of the Pentagon -- violated ethical rules.
"The overall circumstances of the interviews emphasized the speakers' military status and affiliation and implied they were acting within the scope of their official positions as DoD spokespersons," the report concluded. ...
Air Force Maj. Gens. Peter U. Sutton and Jack J. Catton Jr., and Army Brig. Gens. Vincent K. Brooks and Robert L. Caslen Jr. were singled out for failing to seek appropriate approval to participate in the video and for violating ethical rules by appearing in uniform while praising the religious group. Retired Army Col. Ralph G. Benson, a former Pentagon chaplain, was also criticized for allowing Christian Embassy unescorted access to the building to film the video and for misrepresenting the purpose of the effort as a promotion of the Pentagon chaplain's office.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...0301907_pf.html
Erin I heard Novick (who is going to run against Smith in Oregon) on AAR yesterday.
Sounds like a good guy.
there was an article on Lieberman during the Lamont campaign that said that he became convinced during the 2000 campaign that he was more qualified, as a politician and campaigner, than Gore. The reason he bailed so quick on the recount was he figured he had the '04 nomination locked up, and then when the best he could do was to come in third for second place in one primary, he turned on the party as a bunch of ingrates who don't recognize how wonderful he is.
I don't remember how much of that was speculation and how much was reported (associates say...)
Oy.
The gimp comes to Minneapolis.
/pic
pretty quiet in here.
somethin' i said???
Again, 100% error in favor of one side...
Which is a statistical impossibility.
Speaking of statistics, remember that the congressional districting is pre-rigged in favor of red states because of census undercounts in places like cities. Then it is rigged again with false election fraud suits brought by USDAs. Then it is rigged again by taking legitimate voters off the voting rolls. Then it is rigged again by using suspicious machines made by companies like Diebold. Then it is rigged again by not supplying enough machines in liberal districts to allow everyone to vote. Then it is rigged again by having clowns like Bolton and such screaming in Florida. Then it is rigged again by having a supreme court that would Make John Marshall projectile vomit across the Potomac.
fokowi, nah. I'm still recovering from my own vacation.
Hhhhmmm--given the wacky nature of American politics and love of threats to nuke anyone displeasing us, if I were in power in Iran I'd try to buy some nukes from Pakistan just to have some on hand and then find a lookalike of AQ Khan to take his place in "house arrest" and get the real Khan to Iran to run a crash program for in-country development and manufacture.
I mean, what gives us the right to threaten whomever we wish--and then cry foul when they take offense?
The Rethug "just jokin'" defense?
Harry Reid is not in my good books today.
On the other hand, I pity the poor NSA clown who has to listen to my overseas calls.
Don't worry. They are listening to Harry Reid.
Spinoza, and people say math education is a waste.
beer battered freshly caught walleye sizzlin' in the frying pan...
My ex made the internets.
I heard Novick (who is going to run against Smith in Oregon) on AAR yesterday.
Sounds like a good guy.
HoneyBearKelly
Yes, a brilliant, feisty guy. We also have another good candidate, Merkley, so there is hope to oust the pretend moderate.
The rational thing would be to contribute to Dennis Kucinich's campaign.
.
OT, but extra-special Saturday morning Moon and Rex blogging!
I'll probably have more pictures from the local shelter later this afternoon...
fokowi, to be honest, I had more fried seafood in the past week than I have in the past five years. Cape Cod restaurants appear to be incapable of operating without a deep fat fryer.
Lieberman did not fully reveal his Rethuglican nature until 9/11
Actually, it made itself quite apparent in the 1998 Iraq Liberation Act, sponsored by Lieberman, Bob Kerrey, and John McCain, and signed into law by President Clinton):
"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."
If they couldn't have assassinated Clinton's character, a good friend kept telling me they would have assassinated Clinton.
Bonjour!
my job this week-end is to post this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mni...lem/1003629442/
enjoy
My ex made the internets.
Zap Rowsdower
You dated Al Gore?
U.S. President George W. Bush (L) walks with Gary Babineau (R [on Bush's right, not necessarily Republican]), who helped save children from the schoolbus which was on the bridge, while touring the I-35W bridge collapse site in Minneapolis, Minnesota, August 4, 2007. REUTERS/Larry Downing (UNITED STATES
The MCM* creates a "hero" from this tragedy, and then Bush uses him for a photo op.
I mean, what the hell is he doing out there with Bush? One would think Bush would be getting some actual accurate technical assessments from someone technically qualified, to justify his effin' bein' there.
Sheesh.
*MCM--Mainstream Corporate Media
Generalissimo D--
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Air Force Maj. Gens. Peter U. Sutton and Jack J. Catton Jr., and Army Brig. Gens. Vincent K. Brooks and Robert L. Caslen Jr. were singled out for failing to seek appropriate approval to participate in the video and for violating ethical rules by appearing in uniform while praising the religious group. Retired Army Col. Ralph G. Benson, a former Pentagon chaplain, was also criticized for allowing Christian Embassy unescorted access to the building to film the video and for misrepresenting the purpose of the effort as a promotion of the Pentagon chaplain's office.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp...0301907_pf.html
linda | 08.04.07 - 12:45 pm | #
Remember, the Air Force controls most of the nukes. Colorado Springs, home of the Air Force Academy, is also the epicenter of Xtian wingnuttery.
A trifle worrying, no?
One of the last acts of the Center party moderates in the Riechstag was to grant "temporary" powers to the Chancellor. Shockingly, he never gave up those powers.
I just put on Police On My Back.
A favorite of the Max Weinberg Seven, for some reason...
the stupid. it BURNS!
"I met a man who was on the bridge when it collapsed and his instinct was to run to a school bus of screaming children and to help bring them to safety," Bush said. "A lot of peoples' first instincts here in the Twin Cities was to save the lives of somebody who was hurting."
oh, carp--slanties.
Watertiger, I'm glad I didn't hear the clown say it--it was painful enough to read.
Cape Cod restaurants appear to be incapable of operating without a deep fat fryer.
Sallyh for Hussein, Grandmere
Mmmmmm ... fried Ipswich clams ... mmmmmmm
One of the last acts of the Center party moderates in the Riechstag was to grant "temporary" powers to the Chancellor. Shockingly, he never gave up those powers.
rootless2 | 08.04.07 - 12:54 pm | #
That's a very impolite comparison to make. Very uncivil.
I'll probably have more pictures from the local shelter later this afternoon...
dave™©
those kitties and bunny are too cute for words! And you have great courage to spend time at the Humane Society. When i go there, i feel so guilty not giving homes to all those kitties. My Henriette is anti-social towards other cats, she would not tolerate having another in my house, dammit!
BBAT, funny you should mention the winger AirForceAcademy. Look at my homepage, there's an article I'm featuring there that gets into their escapades.
no deep fat fryers here. good old cast iron skillet. frying 'em in a little bit of butter.
WT,
Did you see this photo?
Dood's liver has paralyzed the right side of his body...
If they couldn't have assassinated Clinton's character, a good friend kept telling me they would have assassinated Clinton.
But they knew in '92 his 'character' was shot to shit from his well-known womanizing & cocaine in Arkansas, home of Barry Seal's Mena Airport rendevouzs.
That's why they hand picked Bill to succeed Poppy after he fatally broke his 'No New Taxes' pledge.
Neat how they got Pamela (widow of Bush-Nazi bank buddy Averell) Harriman to help Clinton raise the dough to run.
Sad how she died as Ambassador to France, eh?
When you know you can't win, pick a friend to run against!
In other words...
Prepare for Billary Bush Über Alles!
sallyh is on the Cape. color me jealous.
plum p, since Fluffy's becoming lame, I had to move him in with Cleocatra. She hissed at him and slunk around until she got tired of it, now she's tolerating him. I think eventually they'll make friends. But they just work around each other.
Spinoza, and people say math education is a waste.
I took high school geometry in summer school (I know, I know, what a nerd for volunteering to spend part of my summer in a class room), and I was continually amazed and delighted. As I was with my first stats class. We use heavy duty math to make technical advances and maintain public health, to do evolutionary biology and linguistic analysis. But when it comes to things like politics and public education, someone as fucking dumb as Norm Coleman can stand up and ask if integers are a communist plot to take over the world. Someone as fucking dumb at Ted Stevens can think logarithms are something he ate with some cheese-whiz at a Stuckey's
Mmmmmm ... fried Ipswich clams ... mmmmmmm
Fried clams and a frappe. My mouth's watering.
.
"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."
-
What's wrong with that ?
Mrs. Ibrahim, I was on the Cape. I'm home now.
I did have the fried clams for you. And a lobster roll.
Averill was a bigger friend of the Richard Halliburton- Thomas Tutwiler nexis, venture capitalists, Skull and Bones types, Prescott's buddies in Union Banking COrporation.
Get your facts straight, troll...
BBAT, funny you should mention the winger AirForceAcademy. Look at my homepage, there's an article I'm featuring there that gets into their escapades.
Ruth | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 12:56 pm | #
Scary shit, Ruth. Scary shit.
What's wrong with that ?
Doug Watts
Nothing!
Zap, I was downloading it when you rang!
He's such a fucking spaz.
fokowi, to be honest, I had more fried seafood in the past week than I have in the past five years. Cape Cod restaurants appear to be incapable of operating without a deep fat fryer.
You will be glad to know the police are investigating it. It is known as "Battered Cod Syndrome".
fokowi, is that planted walleye?
Spinoza, that's why when students ask, 'When am I ever going to use this stuff?' we launch into real world problems. Some of them may actually get it.
But they just work around each other.
Ruth
i'm so tempted to try it with Henriette. But i got her at one year because in her previous home, she was the second cat and she was hysterical. My Henriette likes men, the only one species she likes. Women? don't care much for them. Kids? Loathe them. She a men cat she is!
there's still a slim chance we might spend four or five days in Mashpee around Labor Day. I swear, nothing but scallops and fried clams and lobster rolls and raw oysters.
spinoza, last night on Newshour Bobo claimed that the number of earmarks has gone up in the 110th Congress. I guess he can't tell the difference.
My favorite use of math/geometry was in calculating wallpaper usage. Back in the day I was pretty good at that particularly frustrating activity.
spinoza, you are on a roll today
Floppy, Atrios and Boswell
Who is who?
fokowi, is that planted walleye?
ErinPDX, in Sierras | 08.04.07 - 1:01 pm | #
hi, erinPDX
my cabin's on a very good natural walleye lake in eastern SD.
if that's what you meant...
I've never had a lobster roll. Never even seen it on a menu but it sounds divine.
"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by P.W. Botha from power in South Africa and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."
-
I ask again.
What is wrong with that ?
Mrs. Ibrahim, I hope the scallops don't disappoint you the way they did me on this trip. They were awful.
The clams are still delicious, especially with lots and lots of beer.
Spinoza, that's why when students ask, 'When am I ever going to use this stuff?' we launch into real world problems. Some of them may actually get it.
Sallyh for Hussein, Grandmere
I used to do that teaching English. Now I just tell them: "When you find yourself in a situation where you actually have to think!"
It works just as well.
He's such a fucking spaz.
Yep.
And, of course, his "inspection" was thorough:
His Marine One helicopter circled and hovered over the site during a 10-minute tour, allowing him to gaze down upon the muddy waters where some bodies are trapped. He saw pieces of the highway littered with vehicles, including a school bus hugging a guard rail. Rescue boats below helped in the search for victims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
W._...verell_Harriman
William Averell Harriman (November 15, 1891 – July 26, 1986) was an American Democratic Party politician, businessman and diplomat. He was the son of railroad baron E. H. Harriman. He served as Secretary of Commerce under President Truman and later as Governor of New York. He was a candidate for the Democratic Presidential Nomination in 1952, and again in 1956 when he was endorsed by President Truman but lost to Adlai Stevenson.
[snip]
Using money from his father, in 1922 he established W.A. Harriman & Co, a banking business. In 1927 his brother E. Roland Harriman joined the business and the name was changed to Harriman Brothers & Company. In 1931 they merged with Brown Bros. & Co. to create the highly successful Brown Brothers Harriman & Co.. Notable employees included George Herbert Walker, and his son-in-law Prescott Bush (father of U.S. president George Herbert Walker Bush).
[snip]
While Averell Harriman served as Senior Partner of Brown Brothers Harriman & Co., Harriman Bank was the main Wall Street connection for German companies and the varied U.S. financial interests of Fritz Thyssen, who had been an early financial backer of the Nazi party until 1938, but who by 1939 had fled Germany and was bitterly denouncing Hitler. Business transactions for profit with Nazi Germany were not illegal when Hitler declared war on the US, but, six days after the attack on Pearl Harbor, President Roosevelt signed the Trading With the Enemy Act after it had been made public that U.S. companies were doing business with the declared enemy of the United States. On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City.
The Harriman business interests seized under the act in October and November 1942 included:
Union Banking Corporation (UBC) (for Thyssen and Brown Brothers Harriman).
Holland-American Trading Corporation (with Harriman)
the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation (with Harriman)
Silesian-American Corporation (this company was partially owned by a German entity; during the war the Germans tried to take the full control of Silesian-American. In response to that, American government seized German owned minority shares in the company, leaving the U.S. partners to carry on the business.)
The assets were held by the government for the duration of the war, then returned afterward. UBC was dissolved in 1951.
Hand in hand, Nazi Democrats & the Bushitlers.
Just like Billary & Poppy to this day.
So Harry is not going to the YearlyKos then. After last night, the reception for him would have been glacial, to say the least. Weak monsieur Reid, weak!
BBAT, at least with the Academy, you know that West Point will feel it has to come to the country's rescue. But the wingers are truly, deeply convinced they've got to make us behave. yikes.
my cabin's on a very good natural walleye lake in eastern SD.
cool!
fokowi
I believe you are our second S. Dakotan.
Spinoza, that's why when students ask, 'When am I ever going to use this stuff?' we launch into real world problems. Some of them may actually get it.
I was reading some William Carlos Williams last night. I doubt I will ever "use it".
This may become a must-visit web site
"It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by P.W. Botha from power in South Africa and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."
-
I ask again.
What is wrong with that ?
Doug Watts
It worked largely because Mandela was a spiritual figure/leader. The US government is really not good at such things. And our track record at establishing democracies is really no better than any other European imperialist power.
Just ask Ghandi.
It's amazing how the Rethugs can both venerate the Founders' generation, who took the flametorch into the streets to resist tyranny, and at the same time villify any criticism of the Bush junta as treachery.
RMJ, the problem is, some of our kids fear thinking. They don't even want to try it.
I believe you are our second S. Dakotan.
ql-was in NY | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:05 pm | #
good to be in the presence of all of you fine people.
RMJ, the problem is, some of our kids fear thinking. They don't even want to try it.
Sallyh for Hussein, Grandmere
The whole point of the much denigrated "liberal arts education." Much easier never to think, of course.
Chimpy sez the fact that people helped each other when the bridge collapsed proves that this is a unique and wonderful country.
Cuz the Dutch or Koreans? They woulda just kept driving.
Why do you not discuss the Harriman portfolio before the '29 crash, backing venture venture capitalists alongisde the Rockefellers?
This may become a must-visit web site
jac | 08.04.07 - 1:06 pm | #
---
Not funny.
plum p, I have taken a chance twice now with Cleocatra, but she was socialized by living with a brother for over a year. The other time was a dog, and they got along fine but it took a long time.
I'm waiting for her to actually get together with Fluffy. He's sniffed her a couple of times, and doesn't seem at all scared by her hisses.
SallyH, did they have quohogs?
It's amazing how the Rethugs can both venerate the Founders' generation, who took the flametorch into the streets to resist tyranny, and at the same time villify any criticism of the Bush junta as treachery.
MP | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:06 pm | #
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter. Usually depends on what side of the power gap you happen to be on.
One of the last acts of the Center party moderates in the Riechstag was to grant "temporary" powers to the Chancellor. Shockingly, he never gave up those powers.
rootless2 | 08.04.07 - 12:54 pm | #
That's a very impolite comparison to make. Very uncivil.
Barbarism Begins at Home | 08.04.07 - 12:56 pm | #
--------------------------------------
History makes such uncomfortable comparison possible. History is a bitch.
Zap,
unfuckingbelievable.
This may become a must-visit web site
Hi. Lar. E. Us!!
This one is too fucking funny!
I've never had a lobster roll. Never even seen it on a menu but it sounds divine.
ql-was in NY
Oh yes, especially when they use the right bread and don't muck it up with lots of mayo. The next time you are in NY, head to the Pearl or Mary's Fish Camp. Pricey, but worth it, even though the service at the Pearl might make you want to trip your waiter ...
It's amazing how the Rethugs can both venerate the Founders' generation, who took the flametorch into the streets to resist tyranny, and at the same time villify any criticism of the Bush junta as treachery.
MP | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:06 pm | #
--
It's called lying.
This may become a must-visit web site
jac | 08.04.07 - 1:06 pm | #
From the creators of "I can has cheezburgers"?
Chimp admiring all the great fellow feeling in Minneapolis, says 'do not try this at home'.
Ruth, no quohogs. And eating the oysters was advised against due to contamination issues.
Chimpy sez the fact that people helped each other when the bridge collapsed proves that this is a unique and wonderful country.
I think he's writing his own lines now.
.
I have shopping to do, see ya later atriots.
ah... Tom Carper is this week's DLC "leader"
spinoza, last night on Newshour Bobo claimed that the number of earmarks has gone up in the 110th Congress. I guess he can't tell the difference.
The repugs are screaming about the democrats spending more than anytime in this history of the world. There is one particularly repulsive bint from N. Carolina and another from I think Kentucky. They never say that what got us here is Bush's profligate ways. They never say that Clinton balanced the budget. It's like teaching a class in comparative psychology, and having an ill-mannered preppy-dressed never-give-a-blow-job why-can't I park-my-audi-on-the-lawn student ask if because her cat vomited last night, maybe evolution is a bad theory. That's when I pull out the gun and shoot her. However, some of my more sane colleagues say that this should be "a teaching moment", that I should embrace the dialectic. I then had to shoot them. I am now on the run and hope to get to Iran by the end of the day.
I'm tired of all this talk of things being on or off "tables." It's a stupid cliché.
Actually, Little Boots might actually be impressed than anyone would undertake something personally dangerous, because he himself would never think of such a thing.
Biologists seem to think the tendency to help others is hardwired into most humans. Chimps actually show compassion, while monkeys do not.
Which is why I no longer refer to him as "Chimpy"--it's too insulting to chimpanzees.
"Monkey," on the other hand....
However, I think he's probably a sociopath, thus the amazing lack of compassion or imagination applied to others.
From the creators of "I can has cheezburgers"?
Barbarism Begins at Home
and speaking of...
http://icanhascheezburger.com/20...heezburger-man/
spinoza, you are on a roll today
Sushi would be good.
It's amazing how the Rethugs can both venerate the Founders' generation, who took the flametorch into the streets to resist tyranny, and at the same time villify any criticism of the Bush junta as treachery.
MP
As Mel Brooks (of all people!) said, the American Revolution was a merchant's revolt. The French Revolution, was a people's rebellion.
There is a difference. The old joke (by now), is that in France, the government fears the people, while in America, the people fear the government.
Same as it ever was.
Why do you not discuss the Harriman portfolio before the '29 crash, backing venture venture capitalists alongisde the Rockefellers?
Well, other than its relationship to the emerging Federal prohibition of Hemp, I don't see the relevance. But we can discuss that if you wish!
The point I was making is this:
Democrat, Republican, it makes no difference.
If their first aim is not to restore Liberty, fuck them.
Fuck them with hot lead forks, each & every one.
But don't try to pass yourself off as a 'progressive' when your track record is...
Vote for Lieberman in 2000!
Vote for Plan Colombia in 2004!
Vote for Billary Bush in 2008!
Because then you just get shit on and look stoopid in the process.
Please, stop making yourselves look foolish.
ql, a proper lobster roll is served on a New England style hot dog roll, toasted, and only a small amount of mayo.
Anything else isn't a real lobster roll.
I've never had a lobster roll. Never even seen it on a menu but it sounds divine.
Never have sex with someone with an exoskeleton.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter. Usually depends on what side of the power gap you happen to be on.
Barbarism Begins at Home | 08.04.07 - 1:08 pm | #
---
Bullshit.
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
The slogan is bullshit, the conflation is bullshit, the intellectual laziness is transparent and obvious.
The point I was making is this:
Democrat, Republican, it makes no difference.
Yes, it does. If the SCOTUS hadn't screwed Gore, none of this shit would be happening.
As much as I'd like to transform all of them into progressives, our first priority is to get the fascists out of power. We can tweak later.
Saying there's no difference between Reps and Dems is comparing Hitler to Bismark.
Don't even try it your troll.
Off to do laundry...
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
Really?
Tell the Native Americans.
Guess I'm not the only one who's cranky this morning.
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
Nah, they just preserved slavery for several more generations.
Much nicer!
Buzz Bomb, I'd be less cranky if my house would clean itself.
BBAT, at least with the Academy, you know that West Point will feel it has to come to the country's rescue. But the wingers are truly, deeply convinced they've got to make us behave. yikes.
Agreed. The Air Force Academy is the military branch's vocational schoo with short busesl. At least West Point and Annapolis do a decent job, though some assholes like Poindexter and such slip through.
And our track record at establishing democracies is really no better than any other European imperialist power.
It is significantly poorer.
Empires were not in the business of establishing democracies, in any case. Any which were subsequently democratic, or parliamentary, were not established to be independent of empire, but rather as integrated parts of empire contributing and supporting it. Thus, you have the British creation of a series of governmental forms which became democratic in essence - while you have the incompetence of any such arrangement from the Ottomans or the Belgians or the Chinese. And thus in the end, you have a politely reconfigured British Empire into the Commonwealth where other empires went boom.
In none of this political reconfiguration of course did the United States ever have any significant role, altho periodically pretending that it was an ambition. The United States may have at various times wanted to have an empire - but it has never been capable of being one.
Guess I'm not the only one who's cranky this morning.
Buzz Bomb
I'm always cranky these days, and it doesn't take much to set me off. Which is why I spend a lot of time over here.
Yes, it does. If the SCOTUS hadn't screwed Gore, none of this shit would be happening.
If Gore wouldn't have screwed the pooch by asking Lieberman to be his running mate...
and on and on.
But he did, because the truth is...
There's no difference.
Just ask Reid & Feinstein!
I must say that while Hillary's remarks don't surprise me so much, I was really surprised and dissapointed by what Obama said. He alone among the Democrats was able to say that he was against Iraq from the beginning and therefore a principled advocate for a new, saner foreign policy. With all this absurd talk about invading northwesrern Pakistan, he has pretty much flushed that advantage down the toilet -- a stunningly boneheaded move. Maybe he thought he was going to get steamrollered by Hillary anyway, so he had to find a way to look tough without "flip-flopping" on Iraq, but this was definitely not the Goddamn way to do it. "Mitigating" his stance by declaring that although he would invade, he won't nuke doesn't do anything to help, especially since it gave Hillary an opportunity to declare that nukes were never off the table in her book. D'ohhhh!!!There is no more likely way for Al Qaeda to get a nuclear weapon than for us to poke a stick into the anthill of Pakistan. That is the most dangerous foreign policy situation we face today, and it needs to be handled with extreme care. So which of these frothing hawks do we vote for now? Time to take another look at Edwards, I guess.
As Mel Brooks (of all people!) said, the American Revolution was a merchant's revolt. The French Revolution, was a people's rebellion.
--
No it wasn't. Read your history.
That's a very impolite comparison to make. Very uncivil.
Barbarism Begins at Home | 08.04.07 - 12:56 pm | #
I'm sorry. Must remember to roll over.
spinoza, watching the Dems hold onto their tempers and NOT retort that the GoP's got us into a $3TN debt - to avoid having them use it to show that they could so too get off topic - while the minorities acted like frathouse goofs on the floor Tuesday - it was driving me to the point of learning to shoot. No, I still haven't.
Buzz Bomb, I'd be less cranky if the Housewould clean itself.
Sallyh for Hussein, Grandmere
Framed your Tintoretto.
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
I guess you are unaware of how Royalists were treated during the Revolutionary period. All that migration to Quebec and Louisiana was like, totally voluntary. Their houses, caught on fore totally accidentally. Those graves in upstate New York and North Carolina, totally dug themselves.
Buzz Bomb, I'd be less cranky if my house would clean itself.
Sallyh for Hussein, Grandmere
I hear that. A lazy, layabout, good-for-nothing, welfare queen, is my house. It should go get a job.
If Gore wouldn't have screwed the pooch by asking Lieberman to be his running mate...
As if that's what costed us the WH in 2000...
/the state of Florida
the American Revolution was a merchant's revolt.
Well, then most of the richest Americans made a pretty lousy bet at the time.
The slogan is bullshit, the conflation is bullshit, the intellectual laziness is transparent and obvious.
Doug Watts | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:15 pm | #
Who put a bug up your ass???
You don't think King George and the British government thought the American revolutionaries were terrorists? You don't think it was deserved in some respects?
History is written by the winners, friend, and many atrocities are whitewashed over the course of time. I don't remember praising the PLO killing Israeli athletes, so you can shove your straw man right up your ass.
GWPDA--I think Gandhi (and Orwell, at least in his essay I'm familiar with, "Shooting the Elephant,") would find little distinction between British intent and British reality.
The fact that Britain was not as brutal of Leopold of Belgium would be cold comfort to those who suffered under British rule.
Which was my point: the road to hell is paved with good intentions, as Reinhold Niebuhr pointed out over and over again. America prides itself on its intentions, and never pays quite as much attention to its results. Which are seldom as admirable (in foreign affairs) as we think.
GWPDA, Roving Historian | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:17 pm | #
Your endorsement of the British Colonial experience is misinformed. Look anywhere in the world for a war or massacre and you are likely identifying a border drawn by the Brits.
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
Which candidate are you prepping for the debates?
Tancredo?
a man was advised by a friend that on his wedding day, he should a dozen oysters to have a truly wonderful first night of wedded bliss.
upon return from the honeymoon, his friend asked the newlywed... 'so, did you take my advice on the oysters?'
the newlywed answered, 'you bet i did.'
friend asks, 'so, how'd it go?'
newlywed replied. 'i don't know. ok, i guess...'
friend asks, 'what do you mean?'
newlywed replies, 'well, only 10 of 'em worked.'
No it wasn't. Read your history.
Doug Watts
I have. You're an idiot.
Go away now.
If Gore wouldn't have screwed the pooch by asking Lieberman to be his running mate...
and on and on.
But he did, because the truth is...
There's no difference.
Just ask Reid & Feinstein!
Fight or get fucked
Even with Lieberman, he still won by 600,000 votes.
We are fighting. We're just not being stupid about it.
And I'm beginning to suspect that you are a troll.
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
Nah, they just preserved slavery for several more generations.
Much nicer!
Rmj, Sylar's Evil Twin | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:17 pm | #
--
Wrong. Slavery was illegal in all the northern states well prior to the founding of the United States.
More from Professor Cole...
The certifiable Tom Tancredo is talking about holding Islamic holy sites Mecca and Medina hostage to nuclear blackmail. Can't one of Tancredo's family members have him committed, sign the papers and get rich off his estate while he is in a padded room for a few years?
.
Buzz Bomb, I'd be less cranky if my house would clean itself.
Sallyh
I got so mad this morning I scrubbed a bathroom top to bottom with bleach and am getting ready to do another.
Or take a nap.
Don't know if I can stomach listening to the House debate on the FISA law this afternoon.
That's a very impolite comparison to make. Very uncivil.
Barbarism Begins at Home | 08.04.07 - 12:56 pm | #
I'm sorry. Must remember to roll over.
rootless2 | 08.04.07 - 1:18 pm | #
That's better.
/The Very Serious Wise Men of Washington
That is the most dangerous foreign policy situation we face today, and it needs to be handled with extreme care. So which of these frothing hawks do we vote for now? Time to take another look at Edwards, I guess.
the upside is the Pakistani's might transfer more nuke technology to Iran, allowing the Iranians to get some nukes quicker than the ten years they currently project.
you have to always look for the silver lining.
Wrong. Slavery was illegal in all the northern states well prior to the founding of the United States.
Wow, you're stupid enough that a lobotomy might actually improve things.
ql,
You just did a big move.
Got any packing tips?
Hi. Lar. E. Us!!
This one is too fucking true!
Zap Rowsdower, Own3r
Fixed your typo.
Wrong. Slavery was illegal in all the northern states well prior to the founding of the United States.
and Dredd Scott has the papers to prove it, so there!
the American Revolution was a merchant's revolt.
Well, then most of the richest Americans made a pretty lousy bet at the time.
MP
The complaints were over taxation and freedom to make money, not the severe oppression suffered in France. Which is not, pace, to justify the "Reign of Terror," but let's not consider the American Revolution some holy, ahistorical event.
And since when did a rebellion produce precisely what it was supposed to produce, with no consequences even for the victors? People often back revolt expecting a far better outcome than they get. Just supporting change doesn't mean you've made the right bet. One of the wisest adages of all is: "Be careful what you wish for. You might get it."
Wrong. Slavery was illegal in all the northern states well prior to the founding of the United States.
It wasn't explicitly forbidden in many Northern colonies at the time of the Constitution. It just didn't make a lot of economic sense in that region.
I got so mad this morning I scrubbed a bathroom top to bottom with bleach and am getting ready to do another.
Ouch! That'll show that bathroom!
hi, brooklyn girl
didn't hear a peep from gui guy.
just sayin'...
Here's Justin Raimondo's take on the Obama foreign policy speech. He sees some of the problems with John Kennedy--which got us further into Viet Nam. (Obama as the New Kennedy--and not in a good way)
http://antiwar.com/justin/
Politics aside, the implications of Obama's remarks are quite ominous, as he really seems to have it in for the one dependable US ally in the region, General/"President" Pervez Musharraf, or Mushie, as I think of him for some reason, although he is anything but. No one has captured more al-Qaeda leaders than the Pakistanis, and for their efforts – which surpass our own – they have taken great risks: the General has survived a number of assassination attempts, and his entire government is standing on some very shaky ground, not only at home but in Washington, where they have been subjected to the rising complaints of armchair critics. Obama is not alone in demanding that Musharraf crack down on the so-called tribal areas that border Afghanistan – wild country that no central government has ever administered with any degree of authority. SNIP
More bad news for Obama's antiwar supporters: Obama has his own version of "we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here," or else what does he mean when he says "the security of Afghanistan and America is shared"? If avoiding another terrorist attack on American soil depends on how well we can maintain the "security" of Afghanistan, then, fer chrissakes, I say let's head for the underground bunkers and start stocking up on canned food.
I give up. My comments just keep going into uncontrolled scrolling. Thinks it's the right wing. l8r
Got any packing tips?
Zap,
You didn't ask me but as a survivor of far too many moves, my advice is ---
douse your possessions in gasoline, set ablaze. Rebuy everything and have it delivered.
Ok, it isn't the most practical advice, but when you're still finding unopened boxes 3 years from now, you'll think fondly of this approach.
Nah, they just preserved slavery for several more generations.
Much nicer!
Rmj, Sylar's Evil Twin | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:17 pm | #
------
If they had held onto the cotton plantations, the Brits would not have been able to abolish the slave trade.
Thanks to Washington, a couple of sugar islands were all that remained of Brit slave colonies and even then they had a tough time doing the right thing, finally.
As if that's what costed us the WH in 2000...
/the state of Florida
A spectacularly bad bet by Gore!
He actually thought Jew Lieberman would win that state for him!
Dumbass!
Face it: some people would rather not vote for Joe 'Let's Invade Iraq in 1998!' Lieberman, VP or otherwise.
Some people don't care who they vote for as long as the letter after the name is the 'correct' one because they haven't figured out yet that they're being suckered by a 2 headed Hydra.
The kind who'll actually be happy when Billary Bush is given a chance to extend the Dynasty.
Y'know, proud anti-libertarians.
It wasn't explicitly forbidden in many Northern colonies at the time of the Constitution. It just didn't make a lot of economic sense in that region.
MP
Well, there's another misconception posted as fact. WRONG! States - after the compromise - had to be either Slave or Free states by LAW.
Fuck the house. I'm going to concentrate on my sad little container garden today. (Why is cleaning the house drudgery, but working in the garden a pleasure, I wonder?)
The United States may have at various times wanted to have an empire - but it has never been capable of being one.
I beg to differ. The US has always been an empire, but more like Russia than Britain -- i.e. it's imperial lands were acquired contiguous with the original imperial base and the native inhabitants subjugated, killed, or expelled. We haven't been much for open overseas empire, like the British, except for Puerto Rico and the Phillippines and Hawaii, but we have done it -- just with our own style.
The complaints were over taxation and freedom to make money, not the severe oppression suffered in France.
Fuck the "complaints" of the landed gentry. They very well stood to lose all their stuff. Including their lives.
Wrong. Slavery was illegal in all the northern states well prior to the founding of the United States.
Um...how many "Southern states" were there prior to the "founding of the United States"? I'm assuming you mean late 18th century, right? The slave trade was still was still activie in Connecticut in 1839 when the slave ship Amistad sailed into Mystic seaport. The question of their rights as persons or property was adjudicated in a "Northern state."
Load up and try again, will ya. Better yet, don't. You're too ignorant to argue with anymore.
ot any packing tips?
Zap
Pay someone.
Heh, it's the first time we did and it was sooooooo much easier.
Unpack asap so the home feels like your own. We were finished unpacking within a couple of weeks, all but that final 5%.
Wrong. Slavery was illegal in all the northern states well prior to the founding of the United States.
It wasn't explicitly forbidden in many Northern colonies at the time of the Constitution. It just didn't make a lot of economic sense in that region.
MP | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:25 pm | #
--
By 1800, it was illegal.
Whoops! Should have read the comment better. (Embarrassed grin)
Slavery was not feasible in the North because there was no need yet many Northern Entities such as Insurance companies and shipping companies did benefit greatly from the Triangular Trade. So, while slavery was not a recognized societal norm in the North it was an economic force . . . .
(Sorry)
quick historical reminder, what really cost Gore Florida in 2000 was Jeb!s voter rolls purge, and the caging of African American voters, particularly egregious in Duval County.
Well, there's another misconception posted as fact. WRONG! States - after the compromise - had to be either Slave or Free states by LAW.
DWD - Reaching Tinder Point
Yeah, fucking *after* "the Compromise". And I was clearly indicating the time leading up to it. Makes all the difference.
By 1800, it was illegal.
Doug Watts
Thank goodness women & black could vote in that election!
Oh, wait...
And you haven't answered the question:
Were First Nations not treated much like the PLO treated their prisoners at the Olympics?
Read much, D'ough?
hi, brooklyn girl
didn't hear a peep from gui guy.
just sayin'...
fokowi at lake cabin hungover
I'm surprised, because he was enthusiastic about it. I'll email him again, and I'll ask him if I can also send you his name and email. If something has happened to change his mind, I'll let you know.
(Why is cleaning the house drudgery,
but working in the garden a pleasure, I wonder?)
Because you only watch the house get dirty all over again.
The garden provides some gifts - be they flowers or vegetables, or fruit.
(rock gardens excluded)
Yeah, fucking *after* "the Compromise". And I was clearly indicating the time leading up to it. Makes all the difference.
MP
(See apology above - sorry again)
later batz. I'm off to a cookout. Enjoy your Saturday.
Oh, well, might as well have some more from Raimondo:
Is the US mainland really in physical danger because the Taliban and the remnants of al-Qaeda are holed up in mountains thousands of miles away? Must we control every cave, every mountaintop in Waziristan before American mothers can feel safe in walking their prams down the street?
It's the old "domino theory" that we used to hear about during the Vietnam era. Only now it isn't just Burma, or India, that we have to worry about: it's the homeland that's in danger, this time. If we don't fight them in Iraq – or Afghanistan, or even Pakistan, according to some – they'll soon be suicide-bombing our malls and setting off nuclear devices in American cities. The politics of fear, while mainly utilized by the Republicans up to now, is a bipartisan phenomenon, and Obama has lately taken the rhetorical threat-level to an orangey shade of red.
Obama's policy of striking where we have "actionable intelligence" would have us charging our way clear across the Middle East and into Central Asia, a fool's errand that would do much more harm than good. In which case we wouldn't need to speculate as to how ordinary people in the region feel looking up at an American helicopter: we would know, for sure, that it was pure hate. And who could blame them?
Withdraw from Iraq – and invade Pakistan. Oh, and also impose an Iraq-like occupation on Afghanistan, without calling it that, of course. This is the foreign policy platform of the leading "antiwar" candidate in the Democratic primary.M.b< Surely the antiwar "base" of the Democratic party can do better than Obama. If not, then it's time to pack it in, forget about having a rational foreign policy, and resign ourselves to perpetual war.
Thanks to Washington, a couple of sugar islands were all that remained of Brit slave colonies and even then they had a tough time doing the right thing, finally.
Those sugar islands were worth more economically to Britain than the 13 revolting colonies -- and there were more than a couple of them. Part of the reason Washington won was because the British diverted considerable military and naval forces to hang onto the sugar islands once France became involved in the conflict.
whenever i hear some white haired male southerner refer to the civil war as the 'war of northern aggression', under the guise of humor, i still sense underlying bigotry, if you will.
makes me puke.
Slavery was functionally illegal in Massachusetts in 1783.
http://www.mass.gov/courts/
jaced...tjuslavery.html
Plus, than damn buttefly ballot....
Pay someone.
Heh, it's the first time we did and it was sooooooo much easier.
I wanted to hire someone to move (we live in a 3rd story apartment w/ narrow stairwells), but it just doesn't pan out financially.
/shakes fist at economy
I cannot imagine how it must feel to be Theresa LaPore--with knowledge that her ballot design, aside from other issues, directly lead to Bush becoming president.
God, I would need permanent high doses of something....
bg. cool. have him email me his #. if he sees an incoming call with area code of 605, it's me...
and, thanks again.
(See apology above - sorry again)
DWD - Reaching Tinder Point
You ain't gotta apologize for anything. It's how we roll here at Atrios' Tavern.
My nephew - The Buddha of all knowledge - just opined that we need another way. Bush has pointed out a big flaw in our Constitutional form of government. We simply cannot seem to rid ourselves of this incompetent bastard. There should be a mechanism for calling a referendum on his leadership. Dunno what it would be but something . . . Short and sweet with a three month or so window that we can recall his ass.
Well, according to Wiki (for what that's worth): "All the Northern states passed emancipation acts between 1780 and 1804, most of these arranged for gradual emancipation and a special status for freedmen, so there were still a dozen "permanent apprentices" in New Jersey in 1860."
So it was hardly by the "time of the founding" of the US, but it was begun before then, and put into practice shortly thereafter. What, of course, this has to do with anything, I don't understand.
I hate on-line pissing contests.
Read much, D'ough?
Tell the Truth | 08.04.07 - 1:31 pm | #
---
My point was that it is intellectually lazy and disingenuous to lump all self-described "revolutionaries" into one group with the stupid and ignorant slogan, "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
By this rubric, you could equate Pol Pot with Mahatma Gandhi.
What that type of sloganeering does well, is flatten out all historical and factual distinctions into one value-less peneplain that is toxic to intelligent discussion.
Slavery was functionally illegal in Massachusetts in 1783.
The Adams/Jefferson letters are fascinating. They both knew they'd done something really timeless. And they both knew it was doomed.
what really cost Gore Florida in 2000 was Jeb!s voter rolls purge, and the caging of African American voters, particularly egregious in Duval County
Yes, because blacks were lining up to vote for Joe and because Gore campaigned with Clinton so often in black areas!
Right? No.
If Gore had wanted FL, he should've picked Bob Graham.
I don't like him nor trust him, but he would've won by a significant margin.
If Gore wanted to lose by a slight margin, he shouldv'e picked Lieberman.
He did, and he did.
But, it's nice to know that when you call your relatives overseas to try to claim it was all Nader's fault, you'll have the knowledge that your Democratic Congress gave Bush the right to listen under FISA, isn't it?
I'm with QL. Get rid of as much as you can before moving day--and more. We've still got boxes in the basement that we haven't opened since we moved, and it's been (oh my) ten years . . .
The Adams/Jefferson letters are fascinating. They both knew they'd done something really timeless. And they both knew it was doomed.
MP
God. Two giants whose work is being unraveled by an intellectual dwarf. It's so depressing
"Slavery was illegal in all the northern states well prior to the founding of the United States."
slavery was in fact legal in ALL of the northern states. In fact, since most of the states ended slavery on a gradual basis (slaves stayed slaves but their children were freed, for example) there were slaves in many northern states into the 1840s. New Jersey listed 4 slaves on the census of 1860.
when freedom was in sight for the slaves in the north, the demand for slaves in the south was increasing. many northerners did not set their slaves free, they sold them to the south.
sittin' here thinking and drinking.
wait... that's probably only about half right.
He actually thought Jew Lieberman would win that state for him!
Take your anti-semitism elsewhere.
.the upside is the Pakistani's might transfer more nuke technology to Iran, allowing the Iranians to get some nukes quicker than the ten years they currently project.
you have to always look for the silver lining.
mrs. ibrahim al-jafaari
Funny thing is I'm not nearly as worried about Iran getting nukes as I am about the ones Pakistan already has. If the Iranian government falls due to internal pressures, it will probably be to something better. If the Pakistani one does, Oy.
The Adams/Jefferson letters are fascinating. They both knew they'd done something really timeless. And they both knew it was doomed.
Lucky they didn't get caught with that goat.
Oh. I did completely fuck up in saying when slavery was finally abolished in the northern states.
oops ...
Give us a break! 1000's of votes meant for Gore went to freakin' Buchanan! Without the damn butterfly ballot, Gore would have won handily. Without the voter caging and voter purges, Gore would have squeaked by with the butterfly ballot. Without the ruling by the Supreme Five, Gore might have won the overall count the FL Supreme Court would have ordered and won.
Gore would have won Florida. Period. For many reasons, he didn't and it had nothing to do with his campaigning. And it probably had little to do with how his team handled the recount. The fix was in with the Supreme Five--once it was take there, BushBoy was in.
The US has always been an empire, but more like Russia than Britain -- i.e. it's imperial lands were acquired contiguous with the original imperial base and the native inhabitants subjugated, killed, or expelled.
Unfortunately, that is not the definition of empire. While lands were acquired they were incorporated and not dependencies, legally, politically or economically. It's the dependency relationship that defines empire, not the incorporation. Empire is not really synonymous with big or overwhelming or illicitly created....
And Russia was indeed an empire, with dependencies, subordinate legally, politically and economically.
I hate on-line pissing contests.
I can write my name in on-line snow...
The Massachusetts census of 1790 listed no slaves.
So Mass. was def. ahead of New Jersey.
strawhat
I didn't say that, but it is good advice.
Also, buy the boxes pretty much all in the same size so they stack neatly.
He actually thought Jew Lieberman would win that state for him!
Take your anti-semitism elsewhere.
Gomez
Politics is bare-knuckles, Gomez.
If you can't recognize a diagnosis of what the Gore camp was thinking when they picked Joe, then you're probably not smart enough to realize that what was being pointed out by my word choice was Gore's attempt to pander to Jews.
So, you tell me: Is that Pro-Semite?
What that type of sloganeering does well, is flatten out all historical and factual distinctions into one value-less peneplain that is toxic to intelligent discussion.
Doug Watts
You mean the intelligent discussion that blatantly ignores and/or glosses over what colonists did to indigenous peoples on Turtle Island?
Or what continues to be done via unfulfilled treaties with other sovereign nations?
That kind?
But, but, ruling out the use of nukes proves you're a pussy!
"they were incorporated and not dependencies, legally, politically or economically."
well - we do have Puerto Rico.
And Russia was indeed an empire, with dependencies, subordinate legally, politically and economically.
GWPDA, Roving Historian
You mean like, reservations?
ql!
Yes, all ours are in neat tidy U-Haul boxes, stacked against the wall in the basement. Good insulation, I guess.
I'm working on a Prairie Braid lap quilt in cowgirl patterns for a pal going through chemo. I think she'll like it. What's in your sewing machine these days?
Why, escaped slaves could travel throughout northern states and be greeted with flowers and candy. The idea of an underground railroad is a spurious assault on northern sensibilities.
-Paul Barfowitz, 1855
And Russia was indeed an empire, with dependencies, subordinate legally, politically and economically.
GWPDA, Roving Historian | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:45 pm | #
http://www.commondreams.org/view...s04/0115-
08.htm
I think Lieberman was on the 2000 ballot not because of his ethnicity/religion, but because he was a moral scold who publically scolded Clinton.
Al Gore spent way too much time running away from Clinton, at the behest of the scandalizied prudish hypocritical dogshit of the MSM.
You mean the intelligent discussion that blatantly ignores and/or glosses over what colonists did to indigenous peoples on Turtle Island?
Or what continues to be done via unfulfilled treaties with other sovereign nations?
That kind?
Try Being Honest | 08.04.07 - 1:46 pm | #
--
Dood. My Blog is called TISPAQUIN'S REVENGE.
Tispaquin was the Black Sachem of Assawompsett.
By the time the 2000 election was over, it was a jump ball. I can't really blame the SCOTUS for how they ruled. It was not the really a fair remedy, but they were dealing with the fact that the initial result favored Bush. And as it turns out, the recount Gore sued for would have gone to Bush too. Gore sued for the wrong recount. If he had sued for a statewide one, the "unequal protection" argument that sandbagged him with the SCOTUS would not have been operative, and the final tally would have gone his way also. He himself admits as much.
Now BEFORE the election happened, that was when the fix was put in. That is where the outrage belongs, IMO. What Jeb and Pontoons did to the vtoer rolls should have gotten them both thrown in fucking jail. And Nader should have been stoned to death by an angry mob the day after election day, also. Thye rest of it, I'm not so worked up about.
Can I ask a stupid DWD question? During the course of the research that I did for the book I wrote with Mitch Garwolinski - SILENT SCREAMS OF A SURVIVOR (with its just announce second printing) - I learned quite a bit about the Forgotten (The Non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust.)
Considering that I co-wrote a book about these people and I have some knowledge to share, would you consider it to be "cheeky" of me to offer to go to schools and appear (for a fee) as a person to address their students on this subject?
(I am considering leaving the classroom and semi-retiring. Doing something like this would make such a thing possible)
Be as brutal as you like. I have not done this as I consider it kind of cheeky myself but I feel I do have at least some credibility in the area.
I think Lieberman was on the 2000 ballot not because of his ethnicity/religion, but because he was a moral scold who publically scolded Clinton.
as I recall, there was a lot of speculation that Lieberrman's religion would cost votes for the ticket
What's in your sewing machine these days?
strawhat
I pieced kitchen curtains and am almost done piecing living room curtains. I'm kinda bummed because it's not really very inspirational and I always promised myself I would only make what I wanted when I wanted. The living room curtains are about equivalent to a queen sized quilt. But once their done I have a few other projects I can get to work on.
And Russia was indeed an empire, with dependencies, subordinate legally, politically and economically.
Indeed, and the US certainly fits that definition now and since...the Monroe Doctrine? Well, that might be pushing it. But for a while, anyway.
I think Lieberman was on the 2000 ballot not because of his ethnicity/religion, but because he was a moral scold who publically scolded Clinton.
Al Gore spent way too much time running away from Clinton, at the behest of the scandalizied prudish hypocritical dogshit of the MSM.
That sounds about right. I bet Tipper loved having him on the ticket. She's a moral shrew that scares Doug and Dinsdale Piranha.
Dood. My Blog is called TISPAQUIN'S REVENGE.
Who the fuck cares what its called if it's full of your inanity such as this gem:
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
Bullshit (to use another of your phrases).
Are you starting to realize how foolish you look?
By the way, are you recognized by the Wannahbe Tribe, or just a descendent?
. I can't really blame the SCOTUS for how they ruled. It was not the really a fair remedy, but they were dealing with the fact that the initial result favored Bush.
Well, everyone wants a chance to be creative once in a while, and taking a constitutional amendment that was intended to protect the rights of black ex-slaves and using it to justify disenfranchizing their descendents is freking creative.
I think Lieberman was on the 2000 ballot not because of his ethnicity/religion, but because he was a moral scold who publically scolded Clinton. - jim -
i don't disagree with that...
I think Lieberman was on the 2000 ballot not because of his ethnicity/religion, but because he was a moral scold who publically scolded Clinton.
Well, that was what everybody said. And the idea that Lieberman was about pandering to the Jews in Florida is laughable. The Democrats own that constitutency, there is no need whatsoever to pander to it. It's the Cubans they have a problem with, and Joe Lieberman is probably no big help there.
But with the Revolution, the Trail of Tears, the Mexican War, the Civil War, World Wars I and II, there's one common theme.
The old, rich white guys win in the start, the middle, and the end.
oh, my, speak of the devil: At TPM there's a post about Lieberman using the RUdy's wackiest descriptor for radical Muslims during an interview with Salon:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/arc...ives/
016201.php
JL: I worry that whoever gets the Democratic nomination will have a hard time scampering back to assure people that they're prepared to take on the Islamist extremists and [any] other nation that threatens our security.
WS: Turning to another thing --
JL: They don't use that. You'll have to check it. But they don't use the term "Islamist extremism" or "Islamist terrorism" in the debates.
WS: Are you saying it's "political correctness" on the part of the Democrats?
JL: You've got to acknowledge the problem.
What' Lieberman's game here? Damn little concern troll senator.
the US always did empire a bit differently. Take Cuba. they were "independent" but had to obey a thing called the Platt amendment. from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Pla...Platt_Amendment
"The amendment ceded to the United States the naval base in Cuba (Guantánamo Bay), stipulated that Cuba would not transfer Cuban land to any power other than the United States, mandated that Cuba would contract no foreign debt without guarantees that the interest could be served from ordinary revenues, ensured U.S. intervention in Cuban affairs when the United States deemed necessary, prohibited Cuba from negotiating treaties with any country other than the United States "which will impair or tend to impair the independence of Cuba" or "permit any foreign power or powers to obtain ... lodgement in or control over any portion" of Cuba, and provided for a formal treaty detailing all the foregoing provisions.
Later in 1901, under U.S. pressure, Cuba included the amendment's provisions in its constitution. After U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt withdrew federal troops from the island in 1902, Cuba signed the Cuban-American Treaty (1903), which outlined U.S. power in Cuba and the Caribbean. Tomás Estrada Palma, who had earlier favored outright annexation of Cuba by the United States, became president on May 20, 1902."
Ok, it ended in 1934. However, that's the way the US does things. "you're independent - now let me tell you what that means." Any central american or Caribbean nation that gets out of line is dealt with in short order.
it's a different kind of empire to be sure - but for all that it is an empire.
Yes, I have some curtains going too. Thick lined jacquard drapes for a drafty north window. The big piece is actually hung up on the traverse rod, but I've got to hem the darn thing -- and I'm sick of rasslin' that huge chunk of fabric, so there it stands.
Well, that was what everybody said. And the idea that Lieberman was about pandering to the Jews in Florida is laughable. T
In October, '04, Lieberman told a Jewish seniors' group in Palm Beach Country that Israel had no better friend than George W Bush, but John Kerry still had to prove himself in that regard.
Yup, Lieberman was Gore's "distancer" because Lieberman was the #1 Concern Troll Senator even then.
By the way, are you recognized by the Wannahbe Tribe, or just a descendent?
Chief Puhleeze | 08.04.07 - 1:53 pm | #
--
Are you knowledgeable of Native American history or not ?
I am.
taking a constitutional amendment that was intended to protect the rights of black ex-slaves and using it to justify disenfranchizing their descendents is freking creative.
The use of the Equal Protection clause to argue generic cases of alleged voter disenfranchisement is much older than the 2000 election matter. And I imagine that the Gore campaign probably invoked it in their own suit, although I don't know for sure.
DWD-
You should share your knowledge. There is absolutely no reason that your heritage should forbid it. That kind of arguement led to one of the city colleges appointing a jewish professor as head of black studies and then getting heckled for it. By that logic, we cannot have anyone except ancient greeks teaching ancient greek. More fundamentally, human nature is human nature (read Malraux's classic). I once had a student tell me that she had read a great novel about an hispanic lesbian. I asked her the name of the novel. She told me I would never understand it and SHOULD not read it. That seems to me counter to humanistic and scholarly thought for the past +3000 years.
Gore thought Lieberman would help him in many ways.
He could not have been more wrong.
Not leadership material.
Wanting him to run again is the height of folly.
Trusting any Democrat to be more than a doubletalk Republican is a close second.
Iran doesn't have nukes yet, Pakistan does not have a way to deliver them to the US.
hey doug... have any opinions on russell means?
i know him. just curious.
and I'm sick of rasslin' that huge chunk of fabric, so there it stands.
strawhat
And here I sit.
Still, the move wasn't finished till 6/9 and what with unpacking and all I haven't been that unproductive. The curtains will be up by Wednesday. Upstairs can just wait.
Let's see: The Supreme Five said their Bush ruling was not to be used as a precedent because...well, because it was so...uh...original? And a one-off ruling? And it was so well based on precedent and law? Oh, yeah, well, let me sell you this bridge in NYC....
two men sit in the corner of a diner
both of them look quite a bit like Carl Reiner.
How can you not love a band with lyrics like that?
The use of the Equal Protection clause to argue generic cases of alleged voter disenfranchisement is much older than the 2000 election matter. And I imagine that the Gore campaign probably invoked it in their own suit, although I don't know for sure.
blerb | 08.04.07 - 1:57 pm | #
The supremes claimed that it could be used to protect George W. Bush. The idea of a political candidate claiming HIS 16th amendment rights would be violated by a recount instigated by massive suppression of black voters, is mockery.
Are you knowledgeable of Native American history or not ?
I am.
Doug Watts
You obviously cannot be if you're claiming that colonists didn't use terror and torture!
What? You wanna change your answer now?
T'aint No Diff:
You've been at this for several hours under different monikers, and you're still wrong about.
But, believe what you'd like, troll.
hey doug... have any opinions on russell means?
i know him. just curious.
fokowi at lake cabin hungover | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 1:58 pm | #
--
I don't know him. I do environmental advocacy stuff with Maine tribes, principally the Penobscot Indian Nation.
You obviously cannot be if you're claiming that colonists didn't use terror and torture!
What? You wanna change your answer now?
Expert BS Detector | 08.04.07 - 2:00 pm | #
And the Native Americans used terror and torture too. So everyone is the same, according to you?
Yup, Lieberman was Gore's "distancer" because Lieberman was the #1 Concern Troll Senator even then.
jawbone
Really. Why did Gore choose him of all people in 2000? That's an interesting question. I think if he would have gone across party lines and chosen somebody like Senator Chuck Hagel, it would have been a pretty formidable ticket. Or Wes Clark.
To All No Diffs out there: No Dem president would have requested an end to habeas corpus. Period. And no Rethugs would have given it to a Dem president.
Two differences rigght there.
And, in reality, there are many, many more. Dems don't do a Roberts or Alito--they wouldn't be permitted to do so without a 60 vote, or more, majority.
Dems have their problems--and I'm furious today at the Dem Sens who showed little sense--but they are different overall than Rethugs.
Sheesh.
Why is there this congreewoman with a spider on her shoulder on cspan?
"You obviously cannot be if you're claiming that colonists didn't use terror and torture!"
it is my understanding that scalping originated with colonists as a way to obtain the bounty on Indians.
http://ct.essortment.com/
history...calpin_rdrp.htm
You obviously cannot be if you're claiming that colonists didn't use terror and torture!
There is a difference between colonists in general and "revolutionaries". So maybe you can cite an example of Americans capturing and torturing British native allies? Seriously, I don't know of any so would be glad to learn more.
You obviously cannot be if you're claiming that colonists didn't use terror and torture!
Expert BS Detector | 08.04.07 - 2:00 pm | #
--
This is stupid.
Dems have their problems--and I'm furious today at the Dem Sens who showed little sense--but they are different overall than Rethugs.
and the Dems who voted against it outnumbered those who did by two-to-one.
The supremes claimed that it could be used to protect George W. Bush. The idea of a political candidate claiming HIS 16th amendment rights would be violated by a recount instigated by massive suppression of black voters, is mockery.
No, they didn't. First, it is the 14th amendment that has the Equal Protection clause, not the 16th. The 16th amendment guarantees only the right of everybody to give a share of their income to the gubmint. The supremes argued, IIRC, that having the recount only in certain counties and not statewide did not provide equal protection to the voting rights of everybody. The part about it not being a precedent I cannot defend. Anyway, if you want to have all your outrage over the part of the SCOTUS in this, that's fine with me. But I think that is not where the real blame lies for 2000.
But, believe what you'd like, troll.
plantsman, areligious
I'd say the real 'trolls' are your buddies, Harry & Diane.
They'll sell you for 30 cents.
They already did.
I like Russell Means.
Wes Clark was an active forces officer. Hagel wasn't anything but a religious rightwinger at the time. No way in 2000.
And Lieberman had many of the qualities thought to be a moderate Republican's. So, in that sense, he was almost as good. I don't think it was really, really apparent how much of a turncoat he was going to become.
If Republicans had been in charge there would have been no Social Security, no Civil Rights or Voting Rights Acts. Jonah Goldberg was shilling for means-testing for voting this week. Things haven't changed, and there IS a difference.
This is stupid.
Doug Watts
No, Doug, THIS is stupid:
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
So, do you plan to recant, or are you going to let your ignorant lie stand?
I'd say the real 'trolls' are your buddies, Harry & Diane.
They'll sell you for 30 cents.
They already did.
Yes, they did, though I would submit that having a Dem president and not having finally wrested the Leg from the GOP, they probably wouldn't have been in a position where they felt they had to "compromise" in a "bipartisan" fashion to temporarily fuck with FISA.
And the Native Americans used terror and torture too. So everyone is the same, according to you?
rootless2 | 08.04.07 - 2:02 pm | #
Thank you.
Beware of anyone claiming "it's all the same."
If that were true, human language would not have developed.
Supreme Five could have ordered FL to recount in all counties. Easypeasy. But that didn't meet their objective. They held the power of ascendency in their hands--and used it.
The American revolutionaries did not kidnap and brutally execute innocent people, aka the PLO at the Munich Olympics in 1972.
So, do you plan to recant, or are you going to let your ignorant lie stand?
I'm still waiting for a single example from you.
And Lieberman had many of the qualities thought to be a moderate Republican's. So, in that sense, he was almost as good. I don't think it was really, really apparent how much of a turncoat he was going to become.
jawbone
Cool. I didn't know all of that backstory. Damn, it seems like decades ago.
The British arguably used terrorism (smallpox tainted blankets) against the Native Americans.
I like Russell Means.
NTodd, Foaming At The Mouth
Me, too. I've heard him speak a number of times. Quite a presence.
.
I'm not impressed with mindless rat wing talking points, sorry.
And said their ruling was not to be used by anyone else in any other similar election situation. Pulled up that ladder after themselves.
I wish Juan Cole would be secretary of state during the next Democratic presidency
they felt they had to "compromise" in a "bipartisan" fashion to temporarily fuck with FISA.
Yeah, that's worked so well thus far.
No track record to look back on and realize their error.
Right?
And the Native Americans used terror and torture too. So everyone is the same, according to you?
rootless2
It depends.
Were they defending or invading?
This is stupid.
Doug Watts
It really is and it really should be ignored.
.Supreme Five could have ordered FL to recount in all counties. Easypeasy.
I'm not so sure about that. Al Gore did not sue for that particular remedy, so it is not an entirely straightforward proposition to what extent they are allowed to interfere of their own accord with a state's apparatus for electing a president. If they had granted Gore what he sues for, he would have lost.
Juan Cole is quite a firecracker. If you haven't yet, look at the interview with him at TPM.
The prison ships at the mouth of the Thames were no picnic, either.
Damn, I can't wait til Preznit Hillary uses her new Executive Dictator powers to f*ck up the trolls. After all, to question anything the Preznit says during wartime would be treason.
I think it was Reagan's, not Nixon's antics that really prepped this nation to accept a C- towel-snapper as our Chief Executive.
imagine a mind like russell's developing from where his journey began...
Preznit Obama will use his new Super Untouchable national security Data Mining Powerz to detect any treasonous wingnuts who made fun of his middle name in blog posts, and render them to Egypt for testicle-crushing.
Some of the New England/New York tribes during the 1600s were experts at torture, particularly the Mohawks. Many of the New England tribes were scared the fuck out of Mohawk raids because they Mohawks were unbelievably cruel. This is not from European settlers' accounts but from accounts of tribal members.
I think it was Reagan's, not Nixon's antics that really prepped this nation to accept a C- towel-snapper as our Chief Executive.
MP |
and the Maureen Dowdization of the political media
and the sheets and the owls apostal
imagine a mind like russell's developing from where his journey began...
Imagine some asshat like Doug trying to tell him and AIM that the colonists didn't use terror & torture!
Some of the New England/New York tribes during the 1600s were experts at torture, particularly the Mohawks. Many of the New England tribes were scared the fuck out of Mohawk raids because they Mohawks were unbelievably cruel. This is not from European settlers' accounts but from accounts of tribal members.
Doug Watts
IIRC there's a toe-curling torture scene in Mayflower (I think that's the title.... a recent history of Plymouth colony and the wars that followed)
I think it was Reagan's, not Nixon's antics that really prepped this nation to accept a C- towel-snapper as our Chief Executive.
MP | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 2:11 pm | #
---
I agree. Reagan established the precedent that it is real good to have a President who is stupid, lazy, falls asleep at meetings, and takes huge vacations and just doesn't give a fuck about much except himself.
Mohawks - Guilty.
Colonists - Innocent.
It depends.
Were they defending or invading?
See the Difference? | 08.04.07 - 2:08 pm | #
I think "it depends" was Doug's point. As for your question, the answer is, both. As you might know, one of the major advantages of the European genociders was the ease with which they were able to enlist Indian allies to continue long existing quarrels or to invent new ones.
"Reagan established the precedent that it is real good to have a President who is stupid, lazy, falls asleep at meetings, and takes huge vacations and just doesn't give a fuck about much except himself."
well he did love his nancy...
...Damn, it seems like decades ago.
MP | Homepage | 08.04.07 - 2:06 pm
It was a Bizarro world ago.
they felt they had to "compromise" in a "bipartisan" fashion to temporarily fuck with FISA.
Yeah, that's worked so well thus far.
Way to miss the fucking point, dipshit.
Me, too. I've heard him speak a number of times. Quite a presence.
I love his voice.
Imagine some asshat like Doug trying to tell him and AIM that the colonists didn't use terror & torture!
Once again, you might consider noting the difference between 'colonist' and 'revolutionary' and then provide at least one example of terror and torture during the Revolutionary period by Americans against British allies or even tribes not allied with the enemy. TIA.
I think you missed the boat on this one. It is not about using nukes, it is about talking about whethro or not to use nukes. I don't think a leader should promise any country that may or may not harbor terrorist that the US will never use nukes is stupid.
I think "it depends" was Doug's point.
Where did he try to make that point?
Why is he so reluctant to acknowledge the truth?
Colonists DID terrorize and DID torture.
And he's either a blatant liar and/or fool to suggest otherwise.
There's a lot of genuine, sincere research interest in why some of the northeast tribes in the 1600s were so fucking war-like and vicious -- and why others were not. Some of the accounts I have read suggest that raids were almost done for the fuck of it, ie. conquest for conquest's sake, similar to the Viking raids on Europe c. 1000 A.D.
The movie "Black Robes," about some early French priests accompanying French explorers in North America, had some bloodcurlding scenes of torture in it. Good movie, iirc.
Colonists DID terrorize and DID torture.
--
Just cite a specific historic incident of that and you're golden.
IIRC there's a toe-curling torture scene in Mayflower (I think that's the title.... a recent history of Plymouth colony and the wars that followed)
Mayflower is an EXCELLENT book. Flory got it for me a while back.
Also: Founding Myths.
Mayflower is an EXCELLENT book. Flory got it for me a while back.
Isn't it? Really well written. I wish I could do that.
The movie "Black Robes," about some early French priests accompanying French explorers in North America, had some bloodcurlding scenes of torture in it. Good movie, iirc.
Man, my folks gave that to me a long time ago. Fucking terrifying.
"provide at least one example of terror and torture during the Revolutionary period by Americans against British allies or even tribes not allied with the enemy."
being tarred and feathered was no doubt unpleasant, and that was used against loyalists frequently. Mob intimidation of loyalists was also common.
is this "torture" in the sense of someone having their fingernails ripped of on the orders of some bald guy petting a cat? no. however, it is using violence for political ends. make of this what you will.
Preznit Obama will use his new Super Untouchable national security Data Mining Powerz to detect any treasonous wingnuts who made fun of his middle name in blog posts, and render them to Egypt for testicle-crushing.
melior, tapped out | 08.04.07 - 2:12 pm
That's enought to make anyone's groin muscles contract involuntarily....
Isn't it? Really well written. I wish I could do that.
Yeah, well researched and he constructed a good narrative that was a nice, quick read full of stuff that really challenges what you learned in gradeschool. A helluva lot richer story when you get details.
"Colonists DID terrorize and DID torture.
--
Just cite a specific historic incident of that and you're golden."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ind...ndian_Massacres
and
http://www.religioustolerance.or...g/
genocide5.htm
from which I take: In the early 18th century, the states of Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Jersey promoted a genocide of their local Natives by imposing a "scalp bounty" on dead Indians. "
Just cite a specific historic incident of that and you're golden.
Doug Watts
You mean the books published by white guys about defeating the Indians fair & square?
Start here and ask if you need more help with your own homework:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Wou...d_Knee_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
San..._Creek_Massacre
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher | 08.04.07 - 2:21 pm | #
--
Good points. Thanks.
My original and only point regarded the intellectual emptiness of the slogan "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
Slogans of that type destroy thought. And we have far too much destruction of that type today.
Colonists DID terrorize and DID torture.
And he's either a blatant liar and/or fool to suggest otherwise.
'Fess Up, Doug | 08.04.07 - 2:17 pm | #
-------
I'm losing the thread of the argument in the weave of invective, but I agree with you that the colonists were guilty of those crimes. What's the upshot?
Kinapping Indian children and beating them for speaking their own language (not to mention molesting them when you're not beating them)...
that's not torture.
Why, I stand up all day!
Revolutionaries. Revolutionaries. Doug was not claiming that there was no torture or violence in the colonies. The question was whether "freedom fighters" engaged in the same kind of tactics.
You're all talking past each other. And there are sheets.
"My original and only point regarded the intellectual emptiness of the slogan "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.""
well, it's an intellectually empty idea. However, in wars people pick sides and their side is the "good guys" so I suppose it's natural.
I agree with you that the colonists were guilty of those crimes. What's the upshot?
One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.
Doug disagrees and claims that colonists didn't torture nor terrorize, and does so to promote his blog.
And to claim some kind of moral high ground for his promotion of American Exceptionalism.
"The question was whether "freedom fighters" engaged in the same kind of tactics."
yes - originally that was so but as often happens the discussion (or so it seemed to me) shifted to be colonists VS native americans. reading back over the thread that's what seemed to happen.
as for an example of revolutionaries engaging in these tactics? as I said, mob violence against loyalists was common, including a rather unpleasant thing called tarring and feathering. so - the rank and file founding father did indeed use violence and intimidation to further their ends. as did the british. and the indians. No ones hands are clean.
"You're all talking past each other."
you say this like you were a detached observer. you were a participant, and to me it didn't look like you were taking into account what had happened while people were talking to each other. the discussion shifted. maybe it shouldn't have, but it did.
And to claim some kind of moral high ground for his promotion of American Exceptionalism.
Inviting, no? | 08.04.07 - 2:32 pm | #
I think your slogan is both true and false. It's true in the sense that all revolutionaries are "terrorists" before they win and when they continue the same tactics in power they are somehow not terrorists. But it's false in the sense that e.g. the Bosnian Serbian nationalists at Sbrenica are not the same as the French Maquis fighting Nazis.
"But it's false in the sense that e.g. the Bosnian Serbian nationalists at Sbrenica are not the same as the French Maquis fighting Nazis."
depends on who writes the history book doesn't it?
I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact I agree with you, but I think once people decide they are going to use guns and bombs to get what they want they are going to end up making choices that might look bad to an outside observer.
I'm not saying you're wrong. In fact I agree with you, but I think once people decide they are going to use guns and bombs to get what they want they are going to end up making choices that might look bad to an outside observer.
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher | 08.04.07 - 2:47 pm | #
--
And also when they decide not to use guns and bombs to get what they want, e.g. like the Dutch soldiers who walked away from Sbrenica, they can also make choices that look bad.
"they can also make choices that look bad."
yeah... guess there are just no absolutes in this world.
Blame Obama
No Democrats had to answer questions about nukes before his idiot advisors started implying that Hillary is nuke-happy.
They are just being Democrats.
Democrats are simply Republicans who make didn't get born to money.
Obama, Clinton, Edwards . . . Christ what a motley crew. Tell me, would any of this gang give us a fair and equitable tax system, universal health care or a sane foreign policy? Of course not.
You want change, vote change.
Voting Democratic last November was like someone in Connecticut voting for Lieberman: it seemed like a good idea at the time. In the end it means the same old policies.
It's not an appropriate comparison. Notwithstanding all of the blunders we've made, or even the fecklessness of the current Bush / Cheney administration, we have a reasonably stable government that has managed to avoid using nuclear weapons for 52 years now, and that has managed to pursue policies that have helped pursuade others to do the same. The question is whether we think either Iran or Pakistan have similarly stable governments which we have some confidence would pursue similar policies from now until... forever. The questions answers itself.
Obama would make a decent Sec. of State, but he ain't no President. Will Mr. Al Gore PLEASE stand up?
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
