I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
I don't really think I'm first. Haloscan is misbehaving badly.
Damn you TKK. just damn.
It's so much better being first when you are second.
No flirting
From Josh Marshall:
A new SurveyUSA poll of Kentucky shows Hillary Clinton beating the Republicans in all four match-ups, with two results within the margin of error and two well beyond it. On the other hand, Barack Obama doesn't do nearly as well, losing three matched and holding only a statistically insignificant lead in the other:
Clinton (D) 48%, Giuliani (R) 44%
Clinton (D) 54%, Romney (R) 39%
Clinton (D) 55%, Huckabee (R) 36%
Clinton (D) 48%, McCain (R) 47%
Giuliani (R) 52%, Obama (D) 38%
Romney (R) 44%, Obama (D) 43%
Obama (D) 44%, Huckabee (R) 42%
McCain (R) 56%, Obama (D) 34%
Kentucky is turning a very dark purple. Be afraid Mitchie, be very afraid.
Obama does not have my vote.
Obama has proven himself to be pretty damned thickheaded when it comes to policy issues.
I wish Obama would focus on real problems. It's not as if we don't have any.
Damn, it gets dark early this time of year.
How does TKK do it?
I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.....
Fucking take the FICA cap away, and let's move on to another issue. Dammit, this is getting tiresome.
Obama girl can blow me.
"Everything should be on the table," Obama said over the summer. Now, in a shift in emphasis that has drawn notice by his rivals, he says, "We don't need to cut benefits or raise the retirement age," a position that flatly rules out neither approach.
Actually the article is wrong in one important respect. It says the Democrats are not eager to get into the issue. That's not true. They were the ones who brought it up and now the Republicans have eagerly jumped on the bandwagon.(Running on social security at this juncture would be equivalent to the Republicans running on health care reform after they defeated the Clinton plan in 1994 --- only they aren't that stupid.) I assume this is an attempt to shore up the elderly vote in Iowa and New Hampshire, but the ramifications of that short term strategy are quite severe.
Heckuva job, Obama.
Obama girl can blow me.
To be fair, you'd say that no matter what Obama's position on SS might be. 
wtf is with obama. Either he's stupid or he is getting very bad advice.
Progressives Unite! Policies For A Pristine, Preserved, Fragile Planet Gore:
1. Mandatory euthanasia for all reaching aged 65;
2. Mandatory sterilization for all whack-job, crack-brained, ass-hat mush-headed nutroots (For Planet Gore!);
3. Al Gore named Emperor Of The Known and Unknown Universe for life.
"Obama has proven himself to be pretty damned thickheaded when it comes to policy issues."
--puppethead
I don't know who his advisers are, but he needs to get rid of them.
I always thought he was a nice guy, but too young to run for president.
To be fair, you'd say that no matter what Obama's position on SS might be.
Hmm...you might be correct about that.
ql
My bet is bad advice. But you'd think Democrats would have figured out how bad advice hurt Gore and Kerry and would be more careful. He's not being helpful w/ this nonsense.
The young Senator from Illinois could take a famous lesson from, er, Bill Clinton.
When you've dug yerself into a hole, at some point, you gotta stop digging.
Higher-end restaurants remain relatively unaffected by the more difficult economic climate, experts said. As Randall Hiatt, a Costa Mesa restaurant consultant, put it: "The cream of the $5-million homeowners whose homes are now worth $4 million -- they really aren't feeling this pinch."
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we buy.
"I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack....."
--Culture of TrÜth
You gonna be here in the morning for my Sunday fix?
I bet Tim Russert has a cushy lifestyle.
You guys are waaaayyy to tough on Obama and this. I love social security, HATE privatization, but man, the guy is trying to run a presidential campaign.
You're nitpicking.
At the end of the day, I trust Obama more than Clinton, maybe my trust is misplaced and his ability to gain said trust is part of his political genius.
wtf is with obama. Either he's stupid or he is getting very bad advice.
Given the success of his political career to date, I'm guessing the latter is more the cause.
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we buy.
Dorothy Parker:
Eat and drink and laugh and lie,
Love the reeling midnight through.
For, tomorrow, we shall die.
But, alas, we never do.
You gonna be here in the morning for my Sunday fix?
mer
Yes. I've been traveling, got in a while ago, went back out to replenish the larder, and intend to relax for a little while, then reawaken the political part of my brain tomorrow morning.
You guys are waaaayyy to tough on Obama and this. I love social security, HATE privatization, but man, the guy is trying to run a presidential campaign.
Then he should run smarter.
You're nitpicking.
Uh, no, we're criticizing his stupid fucked up strategy based on a crisis that doesn't exist.
at thanksgiving dinner, I was the only Democrat in a room full of Republicans.
The subject of politics came up *groan*. I got told that I was going to vote for Hillary, because of course all Democrats march in lockstep just like the GOP drones do.
I rolled my eyes and said, 'look! I'm sick of this! You people watch too much Fox News. I don't know any Democrats for whom Hillary is their first choice. She's Republican lite!'
Then I proceeded to tell them that I was also sick of the Hillary-bashing. I challenged them - 'tell me what she ever did that is so horrible? Name one thing. I've never had anyone tell me what she ever did to earn the vitriol she gets!'
Only one person - my stepfather - had anything like a coherent answer. His answer was that she was so calculating and ambitious. Like that's a unique trait among politicians running for president...
You're nitpicking.
I disagree. The Democrats and political activists fought back an effort by Bush and the Republicans to f*ck with Social Security -- and Obama is undermining that effort. In doing so, he is putting in play the financial security of many people, and he does not have the political clout to stop a runaway train regarding Social Security "reform."
Obama is certainly not a stupid man. But people look at successfully run campaigns as an indication of the ability to successfully run a country.
Right now, he's not finessing his message to the media. In fact, the media is playing him.
Although politics is often best avoided at family gatherings, in fact my family are all pretty liberal, and no one likes Bush or the war anymore anyway, but we like talk about other subjects.
Jesus fucking keerist.
Is utter and complete stoopidity now a prerequisite for becoming an elected Democrat?
Have these people learned nothing over the last 20 years?
I don't know any Democrats for whom Hillary is their first choice.
I'm voting for her in the primary.
Sounds as if you did a v. good job standing up to a whole roomful of Fox-addicts. We all need to do more of that.
Hillary is my first choice.
oh, and my mother groused about how Hillary put up with Bill Clinton's dalliances only because she wanted to be president so bad.
I wanted to say, "You're just pissed that they didn't get divorced, because then you could criticize them for that!" but... I didn't want it to turn into a partisan free-for-all.
I'll save that retort for another time...
I also wish the topic of politics had been avoided, but I was directly challenged...
, in fact my family are all pretty liberal,
can I get adopted by your family?
renato,
Well the family values crowd is supposed to be big on families staying together -- until it's Hil. You're correct: if she'd divorced him, it would be because she was so ambitious and cold and wanted to separate herself from a liability. No winning
I told the morning crowd but will repeat it now. One of our new neighbors told me that she watches nothing but Fox Headline news. I assumed she was a rethug idiot and so avoided at all costs. Last night she went off on a shrub rant that would have made anyone of us proud. Not one person of the nine in attendance owned up to voting for w and all were pretty firmly in Hillary's corner. DE is a very perplexing place.
If they were really wingnuts, I would ask them who they support - the immoral philadering moron, the complete idiot, the trogdelite, the total shithead, the pathological liar...
For all of his faults, Bill Clinton fucking wrote the modern book on how to campaign properly.
In '92, he had no Daddy Preznit, he had no War Agin' Terra, he had no "I'm the Deciderer" crap to latch onto.
And he beat St.Ronnie's second in command, in a fucking 3 way race.
OT - All the president's men is on Cinemax now. it just started.
I love this movie!!
Hillary is not my first choice right now. Either Kucinich or Edwards will get my vote in the primary. Things might change before I vote, but her stance on Iraq is not to my liking.
It's called David Axelrod. edwards fired him. Obama hired him. and now Obama is spouting the middle of the road sunshine that Edwards tired of spouting.
Obama ruled out benefit cuts or raising the retirement age in the advertisement with which he first raised the issue (in text which flashed on the screen). Your use of "now" suggests that you weren't paying attention.
So yes that leaves a tax increase as oritinally proposed by Obama and as is supported by a majority of Americans according to every poll of the issue.
So what we have is Obama proposed increasing taxes on the richest 6% or earners and roughly 60% of Americans agree with him. What a disaster.
Obama's statements about SS are so dumb he must be getting advise from Rahm Emanuel.
"Given that Obama's now ruling out benefit cuts or the raising of the retirement age that leaves... a tax increase."
If it's simply raising or eliminating the cap level, then pretty much the majority of people won't have their FICA burden rise at all.
Sounds as if you did a v. good job standing up to a whole roomful of Fox-addicts. We all need to do more of that.
thanks Hecate. You would have been proud of me when one of our guests tried to bring up that Whitewater crap. I asked him to tell me what that was all about, and when he couldn't, I told him what it was about.
It was about the Clintons buying into a land deal run by a crooked banker, and they lost $300K. End of story.
Had there been more time and space for a reasoned discussion, I would have explained all the other Clinton -gates to him too. Troopergate? They fucking lied for money and petty vendettas. I would have told them all about David Brock too.
Still, my mother finally admitted the other day that she doesn't like Bush. A little late to the party, but she's welcome anyway. It was also revealing that she doesn't like ANY of the GOP candidates.
Now - and this is going to be amusing to you fine Atriots - you know what I constantly hear from stepdad? "There's one Democrat I would vote for - Joe Lieberman!"
Oy vey. I keep replying, "you can have him!" Someday I'll even get to explain to him exactly why he's as useless as tits on a bull.
I don't know how anyone can say Obama is a smart person if he's too stupid to realize the bad advice he's getting. Social Security is the single most successful "liberal" program in this country, the one the GOP wants to destroy more than anything. If you can't understand that you shouldn't be running for president as a Democrat.
All the president's men is on Cinemax now. it just started.
I love this movie!!
I like that movie too. It's difficult to see the Woodward in that movie as surviving in the current Woodward.
A British expat friend working in the USA told me that he could not believe the income cap in Social Security. The Brits abolished that decades ago. If I have to give up 16% of my income to SS, why shouldn't Bill Gates?
I don't know how anyone can say Obama is a smart person if he's too stupid to realize the bad advice he's getting. Social Security is the single most successful "liberal" program in this country, the one the GOP wants to destroy more than anything. If you can't understand that you shouldn't be running for president as a Democrat.
puppethead | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 5:10 pm | #
They are all smart - but Obama, Hillary, and Edwards have all chowed down happily on bad advice.
Hate to harp on the AUMF, but it was a decision to give authority to George W. Bush to start a war that has been every bit the catastrophe that Fiengold, Kucinich, and even Ron Paul predicted at the time.
If I have to give up 16% of my income to SS, why shouldn't Bill Gates?
Cuz in the USA, we have the principle of one dollar = one vote.
So what we have is Obama proposed increasing taxes on the richest 6% or earners and roughly 60% of Americans agree with him. What a disaster.
Is the following a misquote?
"Everything should be on the table," Obama said over the summer. Now, in a shift in emphasis that has drawn notice by his rivals, he says, "We don't need to cut benefits or raise the retirement age," a position that flatly rules out neither approach.
I'll say it again, Obama does not have the political clout to stop a runaway train regarding changes to Social Security. The people who run the government will roll the train right over him.
Social Security is the single most successful "liberal" program in this country
I'm not sure how many pols have to get shocked by touching that 3rd rail, in order to realize you don't fuck with it.
I like that movie too. It's difficult to see the Woodward in that movie as surviving in the current Woodward.
Milton Arbogast
He was an investigative reporter back then (we desperately need someone like that now). He's a stenographer now. It's all about access now!!
So what we have is Obama proposed increasing taxes on the richest 6% or earners and roughly 60% of Americans agree with him. What a disaster.
Robert Waldmann
What we have is Obama putting back into play a subject that was decisively CLOSED.
For no fucking reason.
There is no crisis. There is no need to raise those taxes whether 6% or 60% or 600% of voters agree with him.
It shouldn't be a topic of conversation.
I'm not sure how many pols have to get shocked by touching that 3rd rail, in order to realize you don't fuck with it.
as I've repeatedly said... take a look at the subprime mess and ask yourself, 'privatizing Social Security - what could possibly go wrong?'
I'm not sure how many pols have to get shocked by touching that 3rd rail, in order to realize you don't fuck with it.
MP | 11.24.07 - 5:13 pm | #
DC insider opinion is that by siding with the rich against working people on this issue, a politician can prove his/her seriousness almost as well as signing on to a war.
A republican asked me the other day if I'm voting for Clinton or Obama, as if they're the only two running. He made it clear he thought Clinton would be the nominee. I told him his, and all the media pundits, beliefs were based on polls. No one has voted yet! No one. We don't know who the nominee will be.
I mentioned Edwrds, and he said Edwards was running for vanity and he wasn't serious. WTF is that? I said Edwards was quite serious and was running for real.
Luckily, dinner was served then, so we avoided an argument.
"If I have to give up 16% of my income to SS, why shouldn't Bill Gates?"
--PinHouston
And Bill Gates could afford it much more easily than some of the rest of us. Makes no sense.
It shouldn't be a topic of conversation.
Particularly when bandits are running the government.
"It shouldn't be a topic of conversation."
Why? It'll start drawing from general tax revenue within a decade. Would you like an income tax increase to make up the difference, or would you rather that the wealthier taxpayers start paying their fair share?
I mentioned Edwrds, and he said Edwards was running for vanity and he wasn't serious.
jesus christ, running for president is like crawling across a field of broken shards of glass 24/7 for two years, and at the end of the process you may well end up with nothing to show for it other than the scars.
Who the hell would do that for the sake of their own vanity???
Why? It'll start drawing from general tax revenue within a decade.
BECAUSE THE GENERAL TAX REVENUE IS THE ISSUE, NOT SSI.
Please ignore the troll
as I've repeatedly said... take a look at the subprime mess and ask yourself, 'privatizing Social Security - what could possibly go wrong?'
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
Yes, George W. Bush's "ownership society" has been just great for America.
Notice no one among his administration or the elite punditry (same thing) are no longer using that term?
Or crowing about the record homeownership levels?
Though they are extolling how great the economy is, since all is rosy for them.
Would you like an income tax increase to make up the difference, or would you rather that the wealthier taxpayers start paying their fair share?
Those are not and will not be the choices.
If Kucinich looked more like Han Solo and less like Yoda he would be in serious contention. I hated junior high the first time. Sigh.
My objection to continuing to travel with the ex-gay preacher is that Obama gave a 2d class twit a national platform to spout his hatred. Obama should have realized that with his heightened visibility that was a bad thing to do. Let the guy stay on the fringe where he belongs.
Who the hell would do that for the sake of their own vanity???
r€nato
Exactly! It was the most bizarre thing this guy has ever said. He's normally quite lucid. It was a holiday, maybe he got into the wine early.
"If Kucinich looked more like Han Solo and less like Yoda he would be in serious contention."
He could like like Adonis, he'd still be a marginal candidate.
It was a holiday, maybe he got into the wine early.
I think perhaps he just didn't realize that he was talking about something he knew nothing about.
"If I have to give up 16% of my income to SS, why shouldn't Bill Gates?"
--PinHouston
You must be self-employed. Regular folks pony up far less than that.
And BTW, though the absolute highest US income tax bracket is 35%, absolutely *nobody* pays 35% of their gross income to the Federal gummint.
That 35% is after exclusions, deductions and credits. The average effective rate is in the teens.
He could like like Adonis, he'd still be a marginal candidate.
Why?
If the US is going to last the next century with any social programs whatsoever, it's going to get over its phobia of taxation.
"If Kucinich looked more like Han Solo and less like Yoda he would be in serious contention."
Kucinich/Paul '08
If Kucinich looked more like Han Solo and less like Yoda he would be in serious contention. I hated junior high the first time. Sigh.
gullycat | 11.24.07 - 5:18 pm | #
Anyone who comes out against the war, for impeachment, against the warfare state, and against corporate power so strongly is going to be a figure of fun for our media.
Hahaha! So funny. Serious people understand, as does Obama, that politics stops on the waters edge and that withdrawing from NAFTA would be bad for all sorts of important interests.
And BTW, though the absolute highest US income tax bracket is 35%, absolutely *nobody* pays 35% of their gross income to the Federal gummint.
That 35% is after exclusions, deductions and credits. The average effective rate is in the teens.
Could I give you the phone number of my wingnut father, and you could explain this simple math to him? I mean, even though he's an engineer which I assume means he's familiar with basic math, he keeps grousing:
"I pay over 50% of my income in taxes! 31% income tax, 8% sales tax, property tax, gas tax..."
I tried over and over to suggest, no you don't pay 31% of your income because you have a home mortgage interest deduction and I know you take full advantage of every single credit and deduction available to you.
But, he never listens to anything I say so long ago I gave up trying to have any kind of discussion with him. In fact, I don't talk to him at all any longer. He really is a piece of shit, and it only starts with his neanderthal politics.
And BTW, though the absolute highest US income tax bracket is 35%, absolutely *nobody* pays 35% of their gross income to the Federal gummint.
That 35% is after exclusions, deductions and credits. The average effective rate is in the teens.
The 16% was regarding SSI, not income taxes _per se_.
Retailers Post Robust Start to Holidays
NEW YORK (AP) - The nation's retailers had a robust start to the holiday shopping season, according to results announced Saturday by a national research group that tracks sales at retail outlets across the country.
According to ShopperTrak RCT Corp., which tracks sales at more than 50,000 retail outlets, total sales rose 8.3 percent to about $10.3 billion on Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, compared with $9.5 billion on the same day a year ago. ShopperTrak had expected an increase of no more than 4 percent to 5 percent.
"This is a really strong number. ... You can't have a good season unless it starts well," said Bill Martin, co-founder of ShopperTrak, citing strength across all regions. "It's very encouraging. When you look at September and October, shoppers weren't in the stores."
It's woven into the American fabric to bitch like crazy over federal income taxes, but we are one of the least taxed industrialized nations on the planet.
...oh, I also tried to suggest that, no you do not pay 8% of your income as sales tax (our local sales tax is 8.1%), unless you spend all of your income BEFORE taxes on sales taxable items, which would exclude food.
Like I said, he doesn't listen to a goddamned thing that I say.
All the president's men is on Cinemax now. it just started.
Cinemax? I think you're watching "All the President's Women"
Would you like an income tax increase to make up the difference, or would you rather that the wealthier taxpayers start paying their fair share?
The wealthy benefit from Soc. Sec., just as people benefit from investing in roads they'll never drive on or schools they'll never set foot in.
People who object to living in a stable country with good infrastructure and a high quality of life in which the old and disabled can live with a modicum of dignity should take their millions and move to a Third World nation.
They should not be allowed to make America into a third world nation.
In a separate statement released Saturday, J.C. Penney Co. (JCP) reported "strong performance across all merchandise categories," including fine jewelry, outerwear, and young men's and children's assortments.
But the department store chain cautioned, "while we are encouraged by our strong start, it is still early in the holiday season, and we are mindful of the headwinds consumers are facing."
J.C. Penney, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (WMT) and other major retailers are expected to report same-store results for November on Thursday. Same-store sales are sales at stores opened at least a year and are considered a key indicator of a retailer's strength.
The upbeat reports were encouraging since merchants have been struggling with anemic sales in recent months, as shoppers, particularly in the middle and lower-income brackets, were becoming more frugal amid higher gas and food prices and an escalating credit crunch.
The 16% was regarding SSI, not income taxes _per se_.
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
Yeah, but I wanted to rant about income tax, not SSI.
Baghdad Bonanza: The Top 100 Private Contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan
* Unidentified Foreign Entities
1 KBR (formerly Kellogg Brown and Root)
2 DynCorp International (Veritas Capital)
3 Washington Group International
4 IAP Worldwide Services (Cerberus Capital Management)
5 Environmental Chemical Corporation
6 L-3 Communications Holdings
7 Fluor Corporation
8 Perini Corporation
9 Orascom Construction Industries
10 Parsons Corporation
11 First Kuwaiti General Trading and Contracting
12 Blackwater USA
13 Tetra Tech
14 AMEC
15 Laguna Pueblo (Laguna Construction)
"If Kucinich looked more like Han Solo and less like Yoda he would be in serious contention."
Kucinich/Paul '08
Hmm...
Why? It'll start drawing from general tax revenue within a decade.
How do you know? Do you really trust the assumptions a Bush administration used to make that forecast?
Funny how it was solvent thru the middle of the century when Clinton was in office.
It's woven into the American fabric to bitch like crazy over federal income taxes, but we are one of the least taxed industrialized nations on the planet.
MP
Why is that? I mean, no-one in Europe particularly likes paying taxes, and raising them is difficult for a politician, but folks understand all the good stuff we get for the tax money. Does no-one spell the benefits out in the US?Is even doing that political suicide?
In an apparent sign of desperation, the nation's stores ushered in the official start of the holiday shopping season on Friday with expanded hours, including midnight openings, and a blitz of early morning specials that were more generous than a year ago. J.C. Penney and Kohl's Corp. opened at 4 a.m., an hour earlier than a year ago.
The strategy appears to have worked, as shoppers jammed stores in record numbers for early morning deals on Friday. Martin noted that judging by the strong figures on Friday, stores were able to sustain strong sales throughout the day. He said he's counting on strong traffic throughout the weekend as many stores, including Macy's Inc. (M), are continuing with special deals.
The upbeat reports were encouraging since merchants have been struggling with anemic sales in recent months, as shoppers, particularly in the middle and lower-income brackets, were becoming more frugal amid higher gas and food prices and an escalating credit crunch.
I wish there was a dating site for people who refuse to worship at the church of consumerism.
I mean, I do like nice things but I do not feel the need to drive a new car just because the neighbor got a new car, etc. And if you don't worship at the altar of conspicuous consumption in this country, there is something wrong with you and you are a lot like a leper.
flory, please ignore the troll so that he'll go away.
Like my esteemed blogmate, I would never blogwhore, but there's the bitchingest thing evah at the homepage!
Yeah, but I wanted to rant about income tax, not SSI.
Rant away.
BTW, not sure, but I think Atrios had linked to this colum at TAP a while back that might be handy again...
thanks Molly, that was cool.
Why? It'll start drawing from general tax revenue within a decade.
Good. The fucking politicians have been cheating all along by scooping out general fund money from SSI resources for decades, without having to "raise taxes".
Fuck them. Take the goddamned cap off of FICA, pay for Ted Stevens' stupid assed bridge, and let's move on.
if you don't worship at the altar of conspicuous consumption in this country, there is something wrong with you and you are a lot like a leper.
adding, I would much rather be the guy who drives a sensible, economical car while quietly building up a nice retirement account and savings in case of emergency, rather than being one of the millions of people who live beyond their means through debt and only make minimum payments on the credit card.
Does no-one spell the benefits out in the US? Is even doing that political suicide?
There's not much to explain. Every single social benefit program in the US is underfunded, we have the most expensive health care system in the world with the burden shifted more and more to the individual, and most of our taxes go to paying GOP deficits and the war machine.
Americans don't like taxes because they perceive they don't get much out of it, really. Almost three decades of GOP efforts to cut every government service has really had a negative impact on this country.
"I pay over 50% of my income in taxes! 31% income tax, 8% sales tax, property tax, gas tax..."
And wtf do the sales tax, property tax and gas tax have to do with his income?
Nobody escapes the altar of consumerism.
Does no-one spell the benefits out in the US?
No. Everything that other people get are "entitlements" and everything I get are important things protected by the Constitution and are magically paid for by the underpants gnomes. So if you want raise taxes, clearly it's just to take my money away and reward lazy poor people.
• Over the three years studied, more than $20 billion in contracts went to foreign companies whose identities—at least so far—are impossible to determine.
• Nearly a third of the companies and joint ventures on the Top 100 are based outside the United States. These foreign contractors, along with the $20 billion in contracts awarded to the unidentified companies, account for about 45 percent of all funds obligated to the Top 100.
• U.S. government contracts for work in Iraq and Afghanistan have grown more than 50 percent annually, from $11 billion in 2004 to almost $17 billion in 2005 and more than $25 billion in 2006.
More than $25 billion in one year!
Fucking Obama.
He is so dead to me. Between his "let's get along and work with rethugs" and his "social security is in CRISIS!!" I just want to slap him silly.
Does no-one spell the benefits out in the US?Is even doing that political suicide?
Arkenor - Elite Chatterer
Because the Republicans have managed to successfully frame the discussion as "those other people" get all the benefits, while "we" pay all the taxes.
You can probably guess who "those other people" are.
And the Dems have done fuck all to try and change the debate.
"I pay over 50% of my income in taxes! 31% income tax, 8% sales tax, property tax, gas tax..."
I'd be interested to audit that claim. Throw it all in, every hidden tax you can think of.
I want to see the ledger prove you part with 50% of your income in taxes.
And wtf do the sales tax, property tax and gas tax have to do with his income?
flory, I finally learned long ago that, for all his left-brainedness, there's no reasoning with him especially when it comes to money. He loves his money above all else in the world. He is absolutely one of those 'fuck you, I got mine' Republicans.
This is the guy who had a computer he didn't want, he tried to give it to everyone he knew including Goodwill but no one wanted it, and when I - the only child he will ever have - asked him if I could have it, he basically told me I could go fuck myself.
I really do not understand the fury this inspires. Yeah, the private accounts were incredibly stupid and yeah, I don't trust the keepers of our national discourse to filter competing SocSec reform ideas to the republic responsibly, but this seems like too much wailing to me.
First, I don't know if Atrios means to say Obama is ruling out everything but tax increases when the quote at the link says exactly the opposite. But, you know, raising the cap on income taxed for SocSec benefits is actually a good idea, no?
My own feelings put me far closer to Clinton's rhetoric than to Obama's on this point, but I really, really fail to see why this is supposed to be some catastrophic strategic error on Obama's part. His position is roughly in the center of the Democrat party's position, as are the rest of the Dem candidates. And the Democratic position is far more popular than the Republicans', so why not highlight the issue if you're trying to win elections? I vaguely understand this objection recited in comments above that Obama is trying to reopen an issue that was definitively closed, but that's simply unrealistic. Anyone can repropose modifications to SocSec at any time, whether those modifications would be sensible or disastrous, Josh Marshall's heroic efforts last time notwithstanding.
Talking about Social Security doesn't undermine it. Frankly, this all seems like more of the same: Democrats having to be "crafty" rather than just say what we intend to do, because we've all internalized this stupid meme that Democratic positions are so unpopular we have to obscure what we think. Raising the FICA cap on SocSec taxes would solve 90% of any potential longterm SocSec shortfall and would only affect a handful of the richest Americans---what the heck is wrong with saying that out loud?
He is so dead to me. Between his "let's get along and work with rethugs" and his "social security is in CRISIS!!" I just want to slap him silly.
fourlegsgood,
His first bs about Iran did it for me.
Hmm...
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 5:27 pm | #
Yeah, I saw the "crazy ticket" postings at Huffington Post and OpenLeft. Some folks don't like Kucinich a'tall.
We maintain that talking about the candidates-for-candidacy this far out, especially in as exclusive a party as this one, is wonking, and that we will either endorse a sufficiently progressive Democrat if pigs grow wings and defeat the Space Ponies, or go with the guy whose name cannot be uttered out of spite (not him, the other one).
Talking about Social Security doesn't undermine it.
Jack, we won that battle! One of the few we've won in the last seven years.
Why dig it up again and skullfuck the corpse?
How do you know? Do you really trust the assumptions a Bush administration used to make that forecast?
Funny how it was solvent thru the middle of the century when Clinton was in office.
I recently got my "statement" from the SS Administration. It has bullshit language in it about how the system is gonna go broke.
Fucking pisses me off. Using government money to print rethug propaganda.
"How do you know?"
The forecasts are pretty accurate that far out. Boomers have just entered the system, so it's just raw numbers. A large number of peak income people are now going to start drawing and the system will be fed by a much smaller cohort.
"Do you really trust the assumptions a Bush administration used to make that forecast?"
Here's what the CBO says:
Although the full budgetary impact of the aging of the baby-boom generation will not be felt during the 2008– 2017 period, CBO’s baseline provides an initial indica- tion of those coming budgetary pressures. Examining the differences over the next 10 years between projected receipts and outlays for the Social Security trust funds reveals those strains. Receipts—excluding interest—are projected to exceed expenditures in each year of the period, but under current policies, the amount by which they do so will peak at close to $100 billion in 2011 and then decline steadily to about $30 billion in 2017 (see Figure1-7). The net surplus of the trust funds—includ- ing interest payments—will peak in 2015 and decline thereafter. As a result, the capacity of the Social Security system to offset some of the total deficit in the rest of the budget will begin to dwindle.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?in...dex=7731&
type=1
This is the guy who had a computer he didn't want, he tried to give it to everyone he knew including Goodwill but no one wanted it, and when I - the only child he will ever have - asked him if I could have it, he basically told me I could go fuck myself.
Oy, sounds like my father. A real asshole.
I am so sorry.
Hey, folkses.
Arkenor -- the origin of the Democrats' willingness to capitulate to the rethug frame of reference on issues may be found in this phrase:
"Tax-and-spend Democrats."
Once that phrase got ingrained it became virtually impossible for Democrats to raise the issue of taxation in any kind of rational way. It's become nearly commonplace for everyone to assume that the services they value will continue to exist regardless of how little revenue the Fed takes in, and that any services that are discontinued are not essential.
It's keeeeerazy, but there we are.
I want to see the ledger prove you part with 50% of your income in taxes.
MP | 11.24.07 - 5:34 pm | #
Suppose you earn under SS max
-16% for FICA/Medi
-7% state income tax
-35% fed
-------
about 50%
then add in sales tax and property tax
The big savings come at the low end and high end.
I'd be interested to audit that claim. Throw it all in, every hidden tax you can think of.
I want to see the ledger prove you part with 50% of your income in taxes.
MP, that might involve proving my father wrong about something, and he'd rather die than admit he's ever wrong about anything whatsoever.
In fact he lost me, his only son, over this stubbornness of his. I've pretty much disowned him and the idea of talking to him or being around him literally makes me nauseuous.
People, 35% federal income bracket does *not* mean you pay 35% on *all* of your taxable income. It;s a grauduated system. You only pay that amount on watered down taxable income over a certain amount.
The *effective* rate is way less than 35%.
Milbank is either too young or to old to remember that Social Security had faced problems in the past. In 1983, the program literally ran out of money. Guess what? No one missed a check. President Reagan and Congress set up a commission (chaired by Alan Greenspan) and they produced a compromise package that is now projected to leave the program fully solvent for 63 years.
While it would not be advisable to wait until the trust fund is empty, we are still 39 years from our next 1983. Mr. Milbank must think that this country is in great shape if he thinks this distant and relatively minor problem should be at the top of the national agenda.
More than $25 billion for war profiteers in one year!
I mean, I do like nice things but I do not feel the need to drive a new car just because the neighbor got a new car, etc.
I drive an old Neon, which has become sort of a white trash car. I like it.
I feel it gives me a certain mystique, especially to Republicans who see me behind the wheel and probably think I have meth mouth and five illegitimate children.
-35% fed
What?
I make good money and I don't pay 35% fed taxes.
That's complete crap.
But, but, but... Obama talks about holding hands and a new type of politics...Only he is good enough for our country.....Who cares that he made a horrendous mistake by hopping on the broken-down social security reform jalopy?
-
I wish there was a dating site for people who refuse to worship at the church of consumerism.
Can we get a waiver of the no-flirting rule?
"flory, please ignore the troll so that he'll go away."
Killfile time for you, my friend. I have no need to read such things.
Oy, sounds like my father. A real asshole.
I am so sorry.
fourlegsgood
yeah, well, thanks for that, believe me that is the very tippy-tip-top of the iceberg. I have so many stories like that one. It's a measure of my capacity for forgiveness that it took me 40 years for me to just stay as far away as possible from him.
One of Obama's top three economic advisors is Jeffrey Liebman. Liebman is a principal author of the privatizing Liebman-MacGuineas-Samwick Social Security Reform Plan aka LMS. A cap increase is a component of LMS. I think I have a good idea of where Obama is getting his advice from and where he is going here. LMS is thoroughly anti-worker.
SS does not need a cap increase. A cap increase is both bad policy and bad politics. To understand why you need to know more about SS financing at the more granular level of data detail.
Obama is taking economic advice from an enemy of Social Security as currently configured. Don't get scammed.
Talking about Social Security doesn't undermine it. Frankly, this all seems like more of the same: Democrats having to be "crafty" rather than just say what we intend to do, because we've all internalized this stupid meme that Democratic positions are so unpopular we have to obscure what we think. Raising the FICA cap on SocSec taxes would solve 90% of any potential longterm SocSec shortfall and would only affect a handful of the richest Americans---what the heck is wrong with saying that out loud?
See above. If anything must be done regarding Social Security, that is a minor issue that effectively sucks all the air out of the room.
I really do not understand the fury this inspires. Yeah, the private accounts were incredibly stupid and yeah, I don't trust the keepers of our national discourse to filter competing SocSec reform ideas to the republic responsibly, but this seems like too much wailing to me.
It's not wailing: it's holding the line on a successful program that is not, in fact, in crisis. Stop lobbing easy pitches for the GOP...
People, 35% federal income bracket does *not* mean you pay 35% on *all* of your taxable income.
That's marginal thinking.
Bad play to touch the third rail. Raising the cap will be characterized as class warfare but if that is what Obama thinks he can do then great.
If he really wanted to pander to retirees that vote in high percentages he should talk about supporting the first real benefit increase in 30 years.
Can we get a waiver of the no-flirting rule?
SteveLG
There's a no flirting rule? I'm in serious violation of that one What's the punishment? A spanking? I might like that, so long as I get to return the favor...
Like my esteemed blogmate, I would never blogwhore, but there's the bitchingest thing evah at the homepage!
orsome
In fact he lost me, his only son, over this stubbornness of his. I've pretty much disowned him and the idea of talking to him or being around him literally makes me nauseuous.
A wise decision.
Just because you're related to someone doesn't mean you have to spend time with them or let them fuck up your life.
Can we get a waiver of the no-flirting rule?
SteveLG
Wait -- it's a RULE?
If anything must be done regarding Social Security, that is a minor issue that effectively sucks all the air out of the room.
Indeed. If you're a Gooper, you'd much rather talk about privatizing SS than about the war or Bush or the deficit or subprime mortgage crisis...
People, 35% federal income bracket does *not* mean you pay 35% on *all* of your taxable income. It;s a grauduated system. You only pay that amount on watered down taxable income over a certain amount.
Heh, tried to explain that to NTodd's Pa's Wife's Sister once. She never did fucking get it.
Just a quick sleepy drive-by. How's things?
Fucking pisses me off. Using government money to print rethug propaganda.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
I just can't believe we're having to have this conversation all over again.
And it was our own side that fucking put us here.
If this is Obama bucking the Cool Kids Rule that Democrats cannot just come out and talk sense as Dean would, without ducking and bowing to a million stupid obstacles, then good for him. It would be nice if they all did that on every issue.
Killfile time for you, my friend. I have no need to read such things.
Econ 102 | 11.24.07 - 5:39 pm | #
Feel free to go fuck yourself.
With a rusty chainsaw.
SS does not need a cap increase. A cap increase is both bad policy and bad politics. To understand why you need to know more about SS financing at the more granular level of data detail.
I'm interested in reading about that. Can you give me a link or say more about why it's bad policy?
Just because you're related to someone doesn't mean you have to spend time with them or let them fuck up your life.
fourlegsgood
Amen bro. I shoulda wised up at least 10 years ago.
I did, kind of. I kept putting more and more distance between us but sooner or later it became obvious it was never enough.
renato (sorry, can't do the euro-symbol thing), you're going to have to explain that to me. We won that battle because it was a really, really easy battle to win. People like Social Security like it is, so if the other side is talking about monkeying with it and we're talking about keeping it, of course we're going to win, every single time. Why wouldn't we want it to be an issue every election?
Do Republicans "win" the issue of income taxes once and then never bring it up again? Hah! they bring it up every single election season because they think it's a winning issue, and it doesn't matter what the actual tax rates are; they always argue they're too high.
There's even some precedent on SocSec itself. In 1996 Bill Clinton ran for reelection against the Gingrich-Dole tax cut plan by pointing out it would coincide with cuts in entitlements of approximately the same size (I think the cuts were more to Medicare, but am not sure). A coupla years later, "Save Social Security" was the winning rallying cry against another stupid GOP tax cut. Bringing up Social Security is good news for Democrats. People like Social Security. People like the Democratic position on Social Security.
Of course, it's entirely possible I'm missing something really obvious that all of you get. But you're going to have to explain it to me like I'm stupid, because these code words aren't making sense to me.
SS does not need a cap increase. A cap increase is both bad policy and bad politics. To understand why you need to know more about SS financing at the more granular level of data detail.
I don't, but I'm curious.
I understand the argument that any form of rate increase is unwise as long as it's being siphoned away to mask the shortfall in general revenues, but I don't at all understand why a cap increase would be bad policy apart from that.
I make good money and I don't pay 35% fed taxes.
That's complete crap.
On a paycheck, it's probably 30-35 percent with payroll taxes (your Soc. Sec., medicare, FICA and fed withholdings).
I think that's where people get confused.
Property taxes and state income taxes can be written off. Most people who bitch about those things conveniently fail to bring that factoid up.
People, 35% federal income bracket does *not* mean you pay 35% on *all* of your taxable income.
When you add in Social Security's regressive tax structure, state and local taxes it is closer to 50% for lower income people.
Killfile time for you, my friend. I have no need to read such things.
Econ 102
yeah he really showed me, didn't he?
I just can't believe we're having to have this conversation all over again.
And it was our own side that fucking put us here.
Yep.
Just shows Obama's inexperience.
Steve -- thanks so much for "Sometimes." It was perfect. I took one of St. Husband's beautiful flower greeting cards and printed the poem, and then he attached it inside. It were lovely.
And Hecate -- thank you, too, because Steve said he got that from you.
You never know when or how something you offer up on the intertubes will benefit someone. (I'm sure the opposite is also true.)
So thanks you lovely human beans!
I hate to be judgmental but...
The home I was in last night night had about a 50 inch monitor for video games and right beside it an equally sized flat screen teevee. Next to that was a pretty fancy computer desk with all the gadgets. This all was in the family room. The kitchen had a 20 inch flat screen teevee and a Boise radio. The master bedroom had another 50 inch screen teevee and I'm sure other doodads. I didn't get to see the other two bedrooms but I'm betting they had teevees as well as musical gear since adult children occupied those rooms.
I guess Mr. QL was right when he said we just don't shop like other people
(Hooboy, I'm making chicken wings and I think I put a bit too much fresh horseradish in the sauce. Just spooning it on caused to break out in a sweat and my nose to run.)
It's not that one can't talk about Social Security. It's more to do with the priority order of the problems we have. If you have been diagnosed with a severe acute illness you don't go and schedule your wisdom tooth surgery first, unless it's related to the potentially fatal condition you need to look into.
From this point of view talking about Social Security IS a little silly. We have much more urgent and burning problems: Iraq war, environmental degradation, just to mention two. If you want to talk about problems with the social safety net, talk about the Medicare troubles. They are much more acute than the SS troubles.
I offer my Caturday pic as a distraction from the Social Security discussion (which is not broken by the way)...
Do I have to give Milton a coke if we just asked the same question?
People like Social Security like it is, so if the other side is talking about monkeying with it
Jack, I'm pretty sure the other side wasn't talking about it AT ALL until Obama brought it up.
I think that was the whole point of the post to which this comments thread belongs.
but I don't at all understand why a cap increase would be bad policy apart from that.
Class warfare! Class warfare! Squaawk!
I really do not understand the fury this inspires.
The Repugs have invested a huge advertising campaign into labeling social programs either "welfare" (money to black people) or "entitlements" (money people do not deserve). They then have invented a "crisis" in entitlement spending. The fury against Obama is that he has, like generations of prior foolish democrats, accepted this narrative and agreed that stemming "entitlements" is a critical issue. For a government that spends hundreds of billions off-book on an evil war against the wishes of the public, social security does not exist as a financial crisis - except as an excuse for stealing SS from the public.
I did, kind of. I kept putting more and more distance between us but sooner or later it became obvious it was never enough.
Yep, there's a reason I don't live anywhere near any of my family.
The rare times I do see them they spend the whole time bitching and moaning because I refuse to stay in the family box where they think I belong.
How dare I live my own life!! the noive of it all.
And Hecate -- thank you, too, because Steve said he got that from you.
You never know when or how something you offer up on the intertubes will benefit someone.
And you have no idea how much I needed to hear that today.
{{{{{ love ya }}}}}
ql, I read an article recently about a New York college having to retrain the incoming freshman class on how to interact socially. They had spent so much time with the internet, tv and video games that they didn't know how to talk to each other.
The Repugs have invested a huge advertising campaign into labeling social programs either "welfare" (money to black people) or "entitlements" (money people do not deserve).
Indeed, most of the GOP playbook is inventing a crisis in government and then offering a solution which usually has the benefit of enriching GOP donors and politicians.
Of course, trashing the government is part of the GOP bible. The government is inherently incompetent and evil, and in cases where it isn't, it must be made so because GOP dogma is infallible.
Indeed. If you're a Gooper, you'd much rather talk about privatizing SS than about the war or Bush or the deficit or subprime mortgage crisis...
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
Exactly. And since our fair and balanced media take all their cues from the Repukkkes, SS is ALL we're gonna hear about from now on.
Great move Obama.
.Who cares that he made a horrendous mistake by hopping on the broken-down social security reform jalopy?
And by getting in bed with gay-bashers. One more strike and he's out.
I really do not understand the fury this inspires.
They are appealing directly to the meanest part of the meanest people.
Property taxes and state income taxes can be written off. Most people who bitch about those things conveniently fail to bring that factoid up.
Stinky | 11.24.07 - 5:43 pm | #
Written off does not mean "free" - its a deduction, not a credit. People see a big tax bite - and do not see much of a benefit. I don't see the point in pretending that the tax bite is not there.
A timid, indexed cap increase is already part of the plan. However, you average school teacher pays way more social security tax than Steve Jobs of Apple fame.
yeah he really showed me, didn't he?
I've been killfiled today too. It was curiously arousing.
If this is Obama bucking the Cool Kids Rule that Democrats cannot just come out and talk sense as Dean would, without ducking and bowing to a million stupid obstacles, then good for him.
Is that what he's doing by raising Social Security reform as a prominent issue, when reform of Social Security is not in fact a significant concern?
Hitting 50% isn't unreasonable for total tax burden. We hit around 46% with a an income near the state median.
From this point of view talking about Social Security IS a little silly. We have much more urgent and burning problems: Iraq war, environmental degradation, just to mention two. If you want to talk about problems with the social safety net, talk about the Medicare troubles. They are much more acute than the SS troubles.
Echidne
Healthcare healthcare healthcare, and particularly its effect on Medicare and Medicaid. If they really want to have an impact, that's the thing to tackle. Our healthcare spending is wacko.
And by getting in bed with gay-bashers. One more strike and he's out.
Oh, that was the other thing for me. He's already out as far as I'm concerned.
I want either Hillary or Edwards.
fourlegs, I do get along well with my mother, thank goodness. I think I'd be a much worse-off person if I didn't have at least one parent whom I love, for all her faults.
All I have to do is compare and contrast. I know my mother would do anything for me. I can really talk to her. Not about everything, but about a lot of things. I know that she is not out to judge me on everything I do, not out to put me down or dominate me.
Basically, we feel like family. My father and I, there is nothing there. He is a sociopath. I really don't think he has it in him to feel familial love. He is completely and totally self-absorbed.
Steve -- thanks so much for "Sometimes." It was perfect. I took one of St. Husband's beautiful flower greeting cards and printed the poem, and then he attached it inside. It were lovely.
And Hecate -- thank you, too, because Steve said he got that from you.
You never know when or how something you offer up on the intertubes will benefit someone. (I'm sure the opposite is also true.)
So thanks you lovely human beans!
Oh, you're very welcome and I'm glad Steve thought of it. I love that poem.
It's not wailing: it's holding the line on a successful program that is not, in fact, in crisis. Stop lobbing easy pitches for the GOP...
Cept NTodd, this is exactly the part I don't get. How is it "lobbing easy pitches" if our position is the popular one? They wanna bring on the barn-burners and talk about privatization, bring it on! That's an easy fight for Democrats, precisely for the reason that you note---that Social Security is a popular program. Frankly, I doubt Republicans are itching to have this fight because they know their base is going to demand something completely untenable, but if one of them is going to make Christmas come early, I think it's foolish not to take the present.
So renato, I still don't get it. If the Republicans are going to start talking about privatizing it all over again.... Again, you're going to have to explain to me why that's not a very very good thing to me.
"Feel free..."
See ya.
Do I have to give Milton a coke if we just asked the same question?
Judges rule: No coking required.
They are appealing directly to the meanest part of the meanest people.
Who are "they"?
Marcellina
Our friend was around again this morning.
I really don't think he has it in him to feel familial love.
Seems to be a common problem with fathers, especially of ours' generation.
"A cap increase is both bad policy and bad politics."
No it's not. It'll get painted poorly, but it's "bad politics" about as much as increasing the income tax rate on earners over $300K would be - meaning lots of noise from the wealthy media voices.
It is absolutely true that working middle-class people are getting killed by taxes. This is because of an earlier abandonment of progressive politics by both sides and because of a deliberate effort on the part of the rulers and the ultra-rich to roll back the French Revolution and exempt the wealthiest from taxes. A really great idea here would be some populist class warfare shoving back against the accountants.
Have I been kill-filed by a troll?
Quelle horreur!!
I didn't really have much enthusiasm for Obama in the first place. Jumping from a state leg to the US Senate to a presidential run before even the first term in the Senate is done, seemed a bit too soon. And anyone who makes a point of pandering to religious folks smells awfully fake to me.
But, looking at what he's been doing lately, the guy just isn't someone I'd support even if he had a full term in the Senate under his belt. He's too DLC for me.
Cept NTodd, this is exactly the part I don't get. How is it "lobbing easy pitches" if our position is the popular one?
If Obama was willing to run on the: "If we weren't pissing away 500billion on Iraq, we would not have a SS problem" line, then he'd have some case. However, by pretending that SS is some particularly out-of-line expense, he buys into a conservative line and then has to try to argue that his tax increase won't hit most people. That's politically weak.
I did, kind of. I kept putting more and more distance between us but sooner or later it became obvious it was never enough.
Yep, there's a reason I don't live anywhere near any of my family.
I didn't intentionally create the distance between my mother's family and myself, but it's certainly convenient. I do have one cousin who lives about a mile from here; I last saw his wife when she came over a couple of years ago to get me to donate to her niece's project to bring Christianity to the heathens in Africa. (Not a chance.)
I don't loathe them or anything, but we don't have anything in common and I'm too old to either behave in a manner that suits them or feel like an errant child when I act like myself.
Healthcare healthcare healthcare, and particularly its effect on Medicare and Medicaid. If they really want to have an impact, that's the thing to tackle. Our healthcare spending is wacko.
I vote for V for Virginia, hearbroken.
They then have invented a "crisis" in entitlement spending. The fury against Obama is that he has, like generations of prior foolish democrats, accepted this narrative and agreed that stemming "entitlements" is a critical issue.
rootless-e, you're going to have to forgive me if I don't for a second believe that Obama has actually bought into it. Not everyone talking about removing the cap on FICA taxes has bought into stupid Republican talking points. I would actually guess very few of them have, in fact.
Our friend was around again this morning.
Oh for chrissake.
Have I been kill-filed by a troll?
Quelle horreur!!
we should all be fortunate enough to suffer such punishment.
"July 31 (Bloomberg) -- Lawyers at Kirkland & Ellis, the law firm that's home to Whitewater prosecutor Kenneth Starr and Bush administration official Jay Lefkowitz, have given more to Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign than to all of the top Republican candidates combined.[...]
Clinton, a New York senator, and Barack Obama, an Illinois senator, are benefiting the most from the largest law firms, according to the Center for Responsive Politics in Washington, a nonprofit organization that tracks political contributions. Five of Clinton's 10 largest donor groups are from law firms."
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/ne...&
refer=politics
A cap increase might be poor policy, given the way politics is funded and given the bias in the voting population compared to the general population, true.
But there never should have been such a cap in the first place. Why make those payments a higher percentage of the incomes of the poorer tax-payers?
Our friend was around again this morning.
ql vaginal American
Awwww, I"m sorry she didn't get to see me.
Nice quilt, you!
Hitting 50% isn't unreasonable for total tax burden. We hit around 46% with a an income near the state median.
Well, let me whip out my handy dandy 1959 Chicago Times Almanac in which I find on page 597 that the tax on separate returns for over $200,000 was $156,820 plus 91% of any excess. Pretty amazing eh? I don't suppose Lou Dobbs wants to return to that 1950 world though he would love to lynch a few brown people.
rootless-e, you're going to have to forgive me if I don't for a second believe that Obama has actually bought into it. Not everyone talking about removing the cap on FICA taxes has bought into stupid Republican talking points. I would actually guess very few of them have, in fact.
Jack Roy | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 5:53 pm | #
Obama is now forced to run on increasing taxes! Why would he want to do that?
So I guess that you LIEberals watch 9/11 tapes over and over again to beat the holiday blues?
Who was it that said if you are explaining yourself then you aren't winning?
Have I been kill-filed by a troll?
Quelle horreur!!
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
Have u posted any new kitteh pitchers?
Please ignore the desperate troll
Reform is impossible without some alarms going off. Obama's plan would permanently insulate Social Security against the kind of politics that might one day deprive americans of a comfortable retirement and lifetime social insurance.
Ann Coulter Fan Club
I thought I saw your heroine at a ferry crossing yesterday and I very nearly vomited* on an innocent bystander.
*Accidentally.
I offer my Caturday pic as a distraction from the Social Security discussion (which is not broken by the way)...
ellroon
Heh. Tiger had a traumtic weekend, including accidentally jumping into the sink, but is sleeping happily nao.
ql, I just read through the morning posts. Jeez, she's ranting hatefully about me when I'm not even there.
Obama's plan would permanently insulate Social Security
there is no promise Congress can make, which a subsequent Congress cannot break.
Them's the facts.
In this appraisal of America’s woes, conservative TV and talk-radio host Beck (The Real America) lays lighthearted siege to everything that makes the world worse. [P]olitical correctness is the biggest threat this nation faces today, he declares, as it makes us prey for Islamic fundamentalists, renders taboo the roots of our economic troubles (poor people are, in fact, lazy, he argues) and creates rampant distortion in the media. Beck goes paragraph for paragraph with global-warming alarmist Al Gore, merrily slaughtering the sacred cows of the environmentalist crowd. Not sated by the hide of the former vice president, he goes after everything and everyone from poverty to perverts, offering solutions to these and other problems (e.g., the key to success in the capitalist system is to believe in it).
Glenn Beck: Poor people are "lazy"
Note also that you could remove the cap and lower the rate at which the tax is applied. That way the majority of tax-payers would see a tax reduction.
Only kittens can save us now.
As permanently insulated as habeas corpus?
"Well, let me whip out my handy dandy 1959 Chicago Times Almanac in which I find on page 597 that the tax on separate returns for over $200,000 was $156,820 plus 91% of any excess. Pretty amazing eh? I don't suppose Lou Dobbs wants to return to that 1950 world though he would love to lynch a few brown people."
I wasn't complaining about the level (though local taxes are getting ridiculous with cuts in state aid, which comes from cuts in federal aid to states), just clarifying that 50% total tax burden is pretty easy to hit even on a normal income. If I made $1 million per year working for a corporation, my total tax burden would decrease markedly.
Heh. Tiger had a traumtic weekend, including accidentally jumping into the sink, but is sleeping happily nao.
Culture of TrÜth
Was the sink full of water?
Note also that you could remove the cap and lower the rate at which the tax is applied. That way the majority of tax-payers would see a tax reduction.
that is an excellent idea. Pit the middle-class against the rich for once, instead of pretending that both classes have the same interests.
Denying the SS crisis is only necessary if you're scared of the neocons.
Afternoon, rational people.
I wish I had a kitten, but I can't keep one.
ql, I just read through the morning posts. Jeez, she's ranting hatefully about me when I'm not even there.
Marcellina
She might be a little cr*zy, is my speculation.
permanently insulate Social Security
There is no permanent in politics.
Note also that you could remove the cap and lower the rate at which the tax is applied. That way the majority of tax-payers would see a tax reduction.
Echidne
Class warfare! How dare you propose a plan that could help hundreds of million of Americans?
"Note also that you could remove the cap and lower the rate at which the tax is applied. That way the majority of tax-payers would see a tax reduction."
Exactly. That's what a Democrat should be running on if they're going to raise this issue. Stop letting the Republicans frame everything as a tax increase when it's not.
Denying the SS crisis
There is no Social Security crisis. There is a health care crisis.
k&Y,
Those baby blues!
Note also that you could remove the cap and lower the rate at which the tax is applied. That way the majority of tax-payers would see a tax reduction.
And why is no democrat pushing this progressive idea?
Sheeeeit.
.
Clinton, a New York senator, and Barack Obama, an Illinois senator, are benefiting the most from the largest law firms, according to the Center for Responsive Politics in Washington, a nonprofit organization that tracks political contributions. Five of Clinton's 10 largest donor groups are from law firms."
And they haven't been strung up and shot? Where is the justice???
And why is no democrat pushing this progressive idea?
spinoza, non ridere, non luger
It's hard to push things when you keep on curling up on the floor in a fetal position....
Note also that you could remove the cap and lower the rate at which the tax is applied. That way the majority of tax-payers would see a tax reduction.
Echidne | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 5:58 pm | #
It just seems politically foolish to argue in favor of a tax increase for a tax that most people see. Even with your scheme, which is a good one, its a complicated pitch - that is not needed.
If we did not spend $500billion in Iraq, we would not have a budget problem - is short, simple, easy to understand, and appealing and it addresses the most pressing moral and political issue. Why present fussy plans for fixing non-problems when the place is on fire?
he key to success in the capitalist system is to believe in it).
Clap louder, damnit! Tinkerbell needs a new rate cut.
Kucinich/Paul '08 There will be no coloring outside of the margins.
Weird. Ron Paul is something of a crank, but America loves her some cranks: Mark Twain, Will Rogers, Hunter, RFK.
Kucinich is an old school FDR liberal so that makes him a far left radical DFH.
I'm gonna call my ninety- eleventeen yro. momma and tell her to wear flowers in her hair. Should be be good for a giggle.
Lennie!
Obama could win on this issue and the tax increase could be used to broaden social insurance. If you want a bigger social welfare state this is where you fight the battle.
Alright, folks, it's off to bed for me. Got an early gig.
Denying the SS crisis is only necessary if you're scared of the neocons.
repeat after me: there is no SS crisis.
there is no SS crisis.
there is no SS crisis.
there is no SS crisis.
OTOH, we have real crises such as the devaluation of our currency, the war which has broken our military and gotten us stuck in a quagmire in the Middle East, our addiction to petroleum which entangles us in ME politics which we would be wise to steer clear of, global climate change, and so on.
It's particularly egregious that our insistence on wasting energy as part of our 'way of life', is what gets us involved so deeply in the politics of a part of the world we really don't understand.
Or, at least it's the idiots running our policy who don't understand, even though they think they do.
Glenn Beck: Poor people are "lazy"
Milton Arbogast | 11.24.07 - 5:58 pm | #
I know for a fact that I suffer from chronic lazyness and I am not poor.
Not rich either. ....... omg! maybe I am on the verge of losing everything! Maybe this lazyness is only a precurser to worse things to come! AHHHH!
Well, gotta go now.
V&M - Spooky that she says she pays close attention to the threads and discusses them and the posters with her cousin. More than a little bats if you ask me.
HEre, a few years ago, the Liberal Democrats (our 3rd party. Gets about 20% of the vote, and has 62 seats in parliament), ran on a policy of putting 1 penny in the pint on the base rate on income tax that would only be spent on education.
It was an incredibly popular proposal with the public. Ring-fencing tax increases like that can help overcome knee-jerk objections to tax.
Poor people are "lazy"
Paris Hilton and Jenna Bush, however, work their asses off. Oh, wait.
Was the sink full of water?
ellroon
It was partially full. I tried to stop him. But when he realized he had to get back in the car, he climbed atop the shelf above my family's washer, then when he saw me jumped down in to their sink. Poor silly Tiger.
Class warfare! How dare you propose a plan that could help hundreds of million of Americans?
1 penny in the pound even. Not pint. Freudian slip.
final thought
I've never known any politician get elected who promised to raise your taxes. Not a one. No matter how carefully they try to explain, it just doesn't happen.
Let's try it again:
Class warfare! How dare you propose a plan that could help hundreds of million of Americans?
There's class warfare all the time. It's not noticed because the rich are winning and that is called peace.
And why is no democrat pushing this progressive idea?
Because the politics in the Democratic party have been pushed to the right of where RM Nixon was during his term.
It kind of baffles me, this. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, are not communists largely on the outs, with a few inconsequential exceptions?
What are they (democratic and republican party) fighting for, and why are moving they more to the right?
According to David Walker, the comptroller general of the United States, the outsourcing of government has escalated across the board over the past five years, although oversight of the process has shrunk during this same period. In an interview with the Center for Public Integrity, Walker noted particular problems with military contracting. "We have identified about 15 systemic, longstanding acquisition and contracting problems that exist within the Defense Department—which is the single biggest contractor within the U.S. government—that we are still not making enough progress on," said Walker, who heads the Government Accountability Office. "I mean, this stuff isn't rocket science."
Social Security, not in crisis. Defense Department contracting, in crisis.
HEre, a few years ago, the Liberal Democrats (our 3rd party. Gets about 20% of the vote, and has 62 seats in parliament)
it's really a shame we don't have a parliamentary system here in the US. We'd have been rid of Bush long ago.
In a parliamentary system, every day is an accountability moment. In the US system, it's every two to four years, depending on how you want to look at it.
Christ, rootless-e, I don't know how the hell you get there. I don't know where Atrios comes up with it either; as I read the quote at Digby's it seems like Obama's explicitly not ruling anything out---maybe I'm missing something. But even those of us who do think removing the tax cap is the best way to address the potential for future shortfalls: Who the hell is this worried about Republicans calling us class warriors anymore? Removing the cap would just mean that someone making $200K pays the same Social Security tax rate as someone making $45K. Who's afraid of making that argument?
Again, I totally get that since 9/11 and because Clinton was the last Dem who won and he did it while triangulating, that therefore we're all supposed to be totally scared of the American people actually knowing what Democrats want to do if they win elections and all pretend that our favorite candidate doesn't really believe anything.... I just have my suspicions about whether it's not really, really mistaken.
To me it seems everyone who's nodding along in agreement on this comment thread seems to think that there's only one strategically smart way to play this, and any deviation is going to get the Dems killed. That simply doesn't make any sense to me. And yet it's treated like Gospel. Again, you'll have to forgive me if I'm missing something patently obvious (I don't believe anyone's brought anything to my attention so far), but this all seems bunk.
When you add in Social Security's regressive tax structure, state and local taxes it is closer to 50% for lower income people.
George Johnston
Indeed. That is true. FICA needs the cap removed. To me, that's the end of the story. The affluent can fucking pony up a little bit, and get over it.
There's class warfare all the time. It's not noticed because the rich are winning and that is called peace.
I love you and I would like to bear your children.
Glenn is right up there with late night Faux Spews who was claiming the vast majority of child molestors are homeless people.
Poor people are "lazy"
Paris Hilton and Jenna Bush, however, work their asses off. Oh, wait.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
I guess Glenn Beck is paying the people who clean his toilets and wash his dirty socks 100K or so, because that strikes me as being actual work, so they must not be poor.
Poor people work extremely hard. My grandmother worked in a dry-cleaning plant until the day before she dropped dead of a massive stroke at 72. I know a little about this.
Because the politics in the Democratic party have been pushed to the right of where RM Nixon was during his term.
It kind of baffles me, this. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, are not communists largely on the outs, with a few inconsequential exceptions?
What are they (democratic and republican party) fighting for, and why are moving they more to the right?
The crucial paragraph is your middle one. Communism worked as a restraint that actually kept capitalism more humane. Once that restraint was perceived as having vanished, the race to the extreme of "disaster capitalism" type stuff started.
What are they (democratic and republican party) fighting for, and why are moving they more to the right?
Doug
I really don't think 'regular' people are moving toward the right, I think the media has been attempting to drive us into that bias.
But when polled, people really do uphold the liberal ideals of fair play, etc.
Democrats believe in absolute rich and Repubs believe in absolute poor.
Since the fall of the Soviet Union, are not communists largely on the outs, with a few inconsequential exceptions?
China, inconsequential?
I would rather hear Obama talk about what he plans to do about Iraq, the economy, but FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT, what he plans to do about restoring the Constitution to its former status as the foundation of this country.
Does he plan to restore Habeaus Corpus? Does he plan to restore the right to privacy for the citizens of this country? Does he plan to restore the balance of power between the three branches of the government?
Obama needs to learn to prioritize. I am not at all impressed with this strategy. He must be running on the Bush lite strategy.
Glenn is right up there with late night Faux Spews who was claiming the vast majority of child molestors are homeless people.
well, come on... if they told the truth that most of them are, in fact, Republicans, that wouldn't exactly win them many viewers, would it now?
"If we did not spend $500billion in Iraq, we would not have a budget problem"
Considering that the national debt has increase by $3.3 trillion since the first day of Bush's first budget (10/1/2001), there would still be a massive cumulative deficit from this administration's policies.
Pitting the working poor against 'welfare' blacks.
I love you and I would like to bear your children.
An offer I can't refuse!
1 penny in the pound even. Not pint. Freudian slip.
Arkenor - Elite Chatterer
I thought it was a beer tax
My grandmother worked in a dry-cleaning plant until the day before she dropped dead of a massive stroke at 72. I know a little about this.
V for Virginia, hearbroken
Dear lady. That is horrible.
There's still plenty of communist partys in Europe's parliaments. Don't think any of them are in charge, except possibly as part of coalition governments.
Glenn is right up there with late night Faux Spews who was claiming the vast majority of child molestors are homeless people.
That is one chunky-nutty brand of crazy, alright.
well, come on... if they told the truth that most of them are, in fact, Republicans, that wouldn't exactly win them many viewers, would it now?
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas | 11.24.07 - 6:09 pm | #
No it wouldn't and you are right on.
Have u posted any new kitteh pitchers?
No, I haz some new one but they're still inside mah camera.
U will haz to be patient, precious.
My grandmother worked in a dry-cleaning plant until the day before she dropped dead of a massive stroke at 72. I know a little about this.
V for Virginia, hearbroken
Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that was fantastic that she did that. Get any sleep? Huh huh.
China, inconsequential?
Milton Arbogast | 11.24.07 - 6:08 pm |
China was never Communist, but it has never been less Communist than now. The most frightening thing about China is that its modern horrors illustrate totalitarian state capitalism at its most free from Marx.
While we wait impatiently for fourlegsgood to post her kitty pictures...
try this.
China, inconsequential?
I'm not sure I'd call the politics in China communist. Chinese yes, but communist? not really.
Jack Roy | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 6:06 pm | #
Why is SS an issue? There is no SS problem, except to republicans who want to destroy SS.
The USA is entangled in a catastrophic war. The non-SS budget is catastrophically out of balance. The trade deficit is pegged. The government is torturing people and imposing a police state. And Obama wants to make a plan to increase social security taxes his differentiator? Dumber than a rock. The real issues are dangerous to repubs - they would much rather discuss gays and "entitlements" ( a word that is itself a nasty bit of propaganda).
Glenn is right up there with late night Faux Spews who was claiming the vast majority of child molestors are homeless people.
That is one chunky-nutty brand of crazy, alright.
Milton Arbogast | 11.24.07 - 6:10 pm | #
I haven't had expanded cable for years so I have missed out on all the cable news. Now that I have it I wonder if it is worth it. The cable 'news' has really gotten out of hand and is more like jerry springer than anything else.
Dear lady. That is horrible.
ellroon
She could have retired -- her children were prepared to help her if she needed it and she owned a home and got SS. But it was a long-standing habit that she worked for a living and she would not let her children help her.
She was only working part-time, but still.
So far as the EU Parliament is concerned:
The European United Left–Nordic Green Left is a socialist and communist political grouping within the European Parliament. The period 2005-2007 it had 41 MEPs.
It combines the European United Left subgroup (which consists of a core of parties that are in the Party of the European Left and a periphery of unaffiliated leftist parties) and the Nordic Green Left subgroup consisting of MEPs from the Nordic Green Left Alliance parties of Sweden and Finland.
China was never Communist, but it has never been less Communist than now. The most frightening thing about China is that its modern horrors illustrate totalitarian state capitalism at its most free from Marx.
I don't know if they were never Communist - Mao's regime wasn't full-on Communism??? - but today they are an interesting paradox. Outwardly, all the speeches and symbols are Communism, but in reality they are a lot more like full-on fascism: the union of government and corporate power.
We ask nothing in this nation from our rich. Absolutely nothing.
Please, Repukkkes, camp upon the third rail until it singes your fucking balls.
Outwardly, all the speeches and symbols are Communism, but in reality they are a lot more like full-on fascism: the union of government and corporate power.
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
Isn't one of the markers of fascism indifference to humanity?
China's products
V for Virginia,
Yup. My grandfather painted a house all day and came home, got in bed, and died of a heart attack. He worked like a dog every day of his life, from about the time that he was 11 and he never had squat. I don't imagine the boyking's every done an honest day's real work in his life and he's got a nice bank account. So I don't want to hear about the poor being lazy and the rich just being rewarded for hard work and believing enough in capitalism.
We ask nothing in this nation from our rich. Absolutely nothing.
On the contrary: We demand that they establish policy and pay for political campaigns.
A billion here a trillion there. I just need to know how many bales of $100 bills that is and how many airplanes does it take to transport it to Iraq?
While we wait impatiently for fourlegsgood to post her kitty pictures...
try this.
ellroon
HAH!
Outwardly, all the speeches and symbols are Communism, but in reality they are a lot more like full-on fascism: the union of government and corporate power
Just like, outwardly, all of Bush's speeches and symbols are Democracy, but in reality they are a lot more like ful-on fascism: the union of government and corporate power.
We ask nothing in this nation from our rich. Absolutely nothing.
MP
And yet they are very afraid of poor people...very afraid.
China has certainly embraced capitalism in a big way. The leaders have at any rate. The peasants, not so much. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see utter internal chaos there eventually.
Just like, outwardly, all of Bush's speeches and symbols are Democracy, but in reality they are a lot more like ful-on fascism: the union of government and corporate power.
you must be one of those Dirty Fucking Hippies I keep hearing about.
"Prevent trouble before it arises.
Put things in order before they exist."
Just like, outwardly, all of Bush's speeches and symbols are Democracy, but in reality they are a lot more like ful-on fascism: the union of government and corporate power.
He always talks about freedom, yet he never defines it.
You know you've done enough when every bone is sore
You know you've prayed enough when you don't ask any more
You know you're coming to some kind of understanding
When every dream you've dreamed has passed and you're still standing
Mama says god tends to every little skinny sheep
So count your ribs and say your prayers and get to sleep
Nothing is louder to god's ears than a poor mans sorrow
Daddy is poor today and he will be poor tomorrow***
Daddy's been working too much for days and days
He doesn't eat
He never says much but I think this time it's got him beat
It isn't that he isn't strong or kind or clever
Your daddy's poor today
And he will be poor forever
/patty griffin "poor man's house"
Mao's regime wasn't full-on Communism???
No. Neither is there any paradox.
The crucial distinction in Maoism as opposed to equally uncommunist strains of Bolshevism is that Mao was starting from a much more primitive level and his goal was not just "Communist" growth, but "Communist" development. Mao had this terrible self-help idea during the Cultural Revolution (which Marx would never endorse; he saw the cultural revolution part pretty much being in or preceding The revolution of a given country), of creating and empowering local industry by seizing any metal that came to hand and melting it all down to forge uselessly weak and adulterated "steel."
He always talks about freedom, yet he never defines it.
Echidne
Well... he spells it Freedumb so he's never been able to find it in the dictionary...
For instance, who is it who is supposed to have freedom under Bush's scenarios? If everyone is supposed to have freedom, including criminals and so on, we are going to have anarchy.
And he never makes it clear that he only really means freedom in the marketplace and freedom for only the sellers.
We let the wealthy rip off homeowners, poison our waters, send our children off to die ugly in idiotic wars, and we ask nothing in return. It's fucking amazing.
I haven't had expanded cable for years so I have missed out on all the cable news.
you are missing nothing other than an aneurysm or an ulcer.
It's that bad. Seriously. Take it from someone who used to be a total news junkie. I quit CNN for good when they promoted Nancy Grace to her own fucking show. That woman is a monster.
No, I haz some new one but they're still inside mah camera.
dat nao gud
We let the wealthy rip off homeowners, poison our waters, send our children off to die ugly in idiotic wars, and we ask nothing in return.
Oh, bullshit. We ask them to make sure the fags can't marry.
Your daddy's poor today
And he will be poor forever
/patty griffin "poor man's house"
SteveLG
That's beautiful, and really sad.
Tell jokes, dammit! I'm cried out!
Echidne | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 6:20 pm |
He is talking about Paulist freedom. It's part of the Fundy code he uses. It is a "freedom" most people would call "slavery" or "death."
Oh, the Humanity! [Mark Hemingway]
Ron Paul's supporters are trying to raise money to fly a blimp around the country for the entire month of December.
Are you gonna help blow it up with your hot air bullshit?
Tell jokes, dammit! I'm cried out!
Two fish in the aquarium swam into the glass wall. One turned to the other and said:"Dam!"
what's the old joke? Communism hasn't failed--it's never been *tried*!
something like that, anyway...
Two fish in the aquarium swam into the glass wall. One turned to the other and said:"Dam!"
Echidne
Thanks, I needed that.
I don't imagine the boyking's every done an honest day's real work in his life and he's got a nice bank account. So I don't want to hear about the poor being lazy and the rich just being rewarded for hard work and believing enough in capitalism.
Notice little georgie's plans for his post-presidency- "refilling the old coffers."
In other words, snagging him some of that nice wingnut welfare.
And this is my favorite naughty joke:
A couple had just made passionate love in the back of the car, on the very first date. He turns to her and says: "Honey, I'm so sorry. Had I realized that you were a virgin I would have taken it more slowly."
She answered:"I probably should have taken my pantyhose off first."
Tell jokes, dammit! I'm cried out!
V for Virginia,pissed at fate
Well, V, I don't have any jokes, but I do have a little Iraqi snark.
He is talking about Paulist freedom. It's part of the Fundy code he uses. It is a "freedom" most people would call "slavery" or "death."
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. - Anatole France
that he only really means freedom in the marketplace and freedom for only the sellers that are well connected to his crime family
fixed your typo
Then he took to the trees and timber
To live a life of shame;
Every crime in Oklahoma
Was added to his name.
But a many a starving farmer
The same old story told
How the outlaw paid their mortgage
And saved their little homes.
***
Yes, as through this world I've wandered
I've seen lots of funny men;
Some will rob you with a six-gun,
And some with a fountain pen.
And as through your life you travel,
Yes, as through your life you roam,
You won't never see an outlaw
Drive a family from their home.
/woody guthrie "pretty boy floyd"
"Put things in order before they exist."
WTF?
Notice little georgie's plans for his post-presidency- "refilling the old coffers."
In other words, snagging him some of that nice wingnut welfare.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
I wonder who on earth will have Georgie come strutting in to speechify after he's done being preznit.
dat nao gud
I am in teh middle of posting sum kitten porn from daze gone bai.
Gimme a minute, damn U!!
something like that, anyway...
nick carraway | 11.24.07 - 6:23 pm |
Anarchism had been tried to tremendous success in Spain until Stalinists destroyed it. Returning lords were so pleased with the reforms of some Anarchist servants that they kept them on, kept their new processes in place ands protected them from the police. Social Democracy is the default political system of the industrialized world and therefore the world (there are notable exceptions, but then, these are after all exceptions).
I wonder who on earth will have Georgie come strutting in to speechify after he's done being preznit.
Oh, america haz no shortage of assholes with deep bank accounts.
Notice little georgie's plans for his post-presidency- "refilling the old coffers."
In other words, snagging him some of that nice wingnut welfare.
compare and contrast what Democratic ex-presidents have done, and what Republican ex-presidents have done.
Both Carter and Clinton have used their influence and prestige to help the less-fortunate.
Bush the Elder ran around making speeches for big bucks. So will Bush the Lesser. Don't exactly recall what Reagan did, I think by 1989 he really wasn't all that up to doing much of anything considering the Alzheimer's had set in.
Then there were the guys who were changing into their sweats at the athletic club.
When one of them drops his trousers the other guys notices that he is wearing Victoria's Secret panties.
"Whoa," he says... "How long has this been going on?"
"Since my wife found them in my glove compartment."
im writing the legal research paper. it hilarious: every fucking sentence has a footnote. heh heh heh.
it makes me think how fucking sloppy journalists are.
I wonder who on earth will have Georgie come strutting in to speechify after he's done being preznit.
ellroon
He's so good at it, too. Worth every penny I am sure.
And this is my favorite naughty joke:
A couple had just made passionate love in the back of the car, on the very first date. He turns to her and says: "Honey, I'm so sorry. Had I realized that you were a virgin I would have taken it more slowly."
She answered:"I probably should have taken my pantyhose off first."
Ha! here's the only one I can ever remember.
"Little red riding hood decides to go visit her grandma and take her some nice shortbread. Her mom tells her, 'Watch out for the big bad wolf!"
So off she goes, skipping along, when all the sudden the big bad wolf jumps out from behind a tree.
"AHA! Little Red Riding Hood, I'M GOING TO EAT YOU!" he roars.
Sez Little Red Riding Hood, "Eat, eat. eat. Doesn't anyone want to fuck anymore?"
Well, V, I don't have any jokes, but I do have a little Iraqi snark.
Diane C. Barking-Mad
Thanks, Diane. Have you been having any problems with sitemeter? It's still trying to contact them. I'll leave the window open so I can read it when it settles down.
One more joke:
Two cows were chewing the cud and talking about the news of the day. One said:"Isn't it terrible about the mad cow disease?"
The other one answered:"Yes, I'm sure glad I'm a squirrel."
Both Carter and Clinton have used their influence and prestige to help the less-fortunate.
Bush the Elder ran around making speeches for big bucks. So will Bush the Lesser. Don't exactly recall what Reagan did, I think by 1989 he really wasn't all that up to doing much of anything considering the Alzheimer's had set in.
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
Just remember what our real president Al Gore did right after Katrina.
I wonder who on earth will have Georgie come strutting in to speechify after he's done being preznit.
Military contractors.
Fundies.
Rabid Republican activists.
Can't really think of anyone else. I feel pretty sure that even the GOP will carefully distance itself from him, after they get royally spanked next year.
euphronius | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 6:28 pm |
JH Hatfield's fatal bio of Dumbya had at least three sources for every statement.
The USA is entangled in a catastrophic war. The non-SS budget is catastrophically out of balance. The trade deficit is pegged. The government is torturing people and imposing a police state. And Obama wants to make a plan to increase social security taxes his differentiator?
rootless-e, you're really cheesed because of the order Obama is presenting aspects of his platform? That's really what's got you set off? It'd sure be significant if Obama actually weren't opposed to torture, but that's not at all true---it's just not what he's talking about now. This was the first thing that drew me into this comment thread, because I really don't understand what the heck about Obama's seemingly non-controversial comments it is that gets people riled up so. Now I'm to understand it's because he's talking about Social Security without prefacing "While not as significant issue as the deficit or rendition"? You'll excuse me, but I'm still really, really confused why the heck this is an issue at all.
im writing the legal research paper. it hilarious: every fucking sentence has a footnote. heh heh heh.
footnotes? are they those blue text thingies?
Considering that the national debt has increase by $3.3 trillion since the first day of Bush's first budget (10/1/2001), there would still be a massive cumulative deficit from this administration's policies.
Econ 102 | 11.24.07 - 6:09 pm | #
The electorate does not consist of accountants. They want an elevator pitch not a business plan pro-forma budget. An elevator pitch should indicate critical priorities and directions. If your critical priority and direction is "fuss with tax codes and pussyfoot around the war", then so be it.
im writing the legal research paper. it hilarious: every fucking sentence has a footnote. heh heh heh.
footnotes? are they those blue text thingies?
George Johnston
I think footnotes is a slang for facts because your paper won't stand up without them?
Gimme a minute, damn U!!
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
Hurryup already.
It's been dayz without new kittehs....
Just remember what our real president Al Gore did right after Katrina
you know what? if anyone was justified in running around cashing in on being an ex-president, it was Bill Clinton. Do you realize they never owned their own home for about 20 years or so, until 2000 when they bought in NY? The Clintons were not born into money nor did they make a bundle before starting their political careers. They certainly did not get filthy rich while he was President.
But that's not what Clinton did. I'm sure he's made speeches for money, but he has done so much more than that.
Can you really imagine Bush doing anything for the betterment of mankind after he leaves office?
I mean, other than turning himself in for war crimes trials?
Ha!
I'm watching "The Day the Earth Stood Still"
family is sitting around the dinner table, wondering why the government doesn't do something, the wife says, "maybe they can't do anything, they're just people."
The dad says, "People, Ha! they're not people, they're democrats!"
Why aren't you using endnotes? Your every page must only be a quarter of actual text!
Hurryup already.
It's been dayz without new kittehs....
Blogger iz being slow.
"Since my wife found them in my glove compartment."
SteveLG
Kids in the Hall did a very funny sketch along these lines. Guys coming in after a night out when all their wives had been out of town, IIRC. Scott Thompson was wearing two ties.
Notice little georgie's plans for his post-presidency- "refilling the old coffers."
In other words, snagging him some of that nice wingnut welfare.
I'd like to see him try to make money with an honest business venture. Considering his business record to date, he'd be bankrupt in a year or two, if he didn't have the backup of his fathers friends to bail out the debt, his management would cause.
Thanks for reminding me about Kids in the Hall, gotta see if they are available on Netflix.
Can you really imagine Bush doing anything for the betterment of mankind after he leaves office?
I mean, other than turning himself in for war crimes trials?
r€nato, aka Warren Christmas
The man is a fucking sociopath with a God complex. I wonder if Laura will find someplace else to live than Paraguay....
Good evening.
If you didn't see it already, watch this mash-up between Public Enemy and Herb Alpert.
Great stuff.
No one liked mah joke.
See if I tell you loosers any jokes agin!!
Jack Roy: it's an issue because Bush failed miserably & deservedly at *his* Social Security "reform" and to open it up again now is sort of a tacit admission Bush may have been right. It seems like bad politics on Obama's part.
Whether it's the End Of The World? I wouldn't know-- but Obama's success to date mystifies me anyway.
I wonder who on earth will have Georgie come strutting in to speechify after he's done being preznit.
Given his inability to utter even one sentence in English, people might pay him to not give speeches.
no the footnotes i use are to proetect my ass from plagerism claims. every thing i think is usually from somewhere else so footnote footnote footnote. they are also to demostrate that i actually read something.
Blogger iz pissing me off.
Guess I'll go take a hot shower.
wan mady n riply
No one liked mah joke.
I liked it. I laughed, but you couldn't hear it.
V for Virginia,pissed at fate | 11.24.07 - 6:29 pm
Nope, but I did check anyway.
Maybe what's going on is the sitemeter graphic is hanging up in the loading for you.
I'd close the window and try again if it still hasn't loaded.
He could go on the comedy circuit, perhaps.
I'd like to see him try to make money with an honest business venture. Considering his business record to date, he'd be bankrupt in a year or two, if he didn't have the backup of his fathers friends to bail out the debt, his management would cause.
well, being an ex-president would probably stand in for actually running to daddy and his friends for help, but yeah you're right on.
What he's done to this country is exactly what one would expect if one gave even the most cursory examination of his business career. His only success was the Texas Rangers, and that was a 100% crony capitalism Texas-style operation.
Why aren't you using endnotes? Your every page must only be a quarter of actual text!
kei & yuri, kittenbringing | 11.24.07 - 6:33 pm | #
yeah. convention? i dont know. law articles use footnotes. endnotes are a PIA anyway.
You see, it is ME! I knew it. If I actually would have asked Nancy Pelosi's Daughter a question at FDL this would have been it:
Why is your mother a traitor to this country? Why won't she impeach this traitor of a president and why does she refuse to end this war with the power she has been given?
But I could never make it over there: they are nicey nice. I am too old and close to death to be that nice.
Does Amtrak keep to schedule? Because I predict that's all anybody will have to say about Chimpy in 40 years.
Why aren't you using endnotes? Your every page must only be a quarter of actual text!
Law schools no likee endnotes. A page w/ only 25% text is fine for law reviews. I had one law prof whose greatest claim to fame was having published an article in the HLR w/ a footnote to a footnote.
wan mady n riply
Pitchers R stuk in teh intertubes
Social Security will continue to be affordable. It is not part of an “entitlement crisis.” Its cost is projected to rise to 6.2% of gross domestic product (GDP) by 2030 and to remain at about that level for 50 more years. The increase in the share of GDP going to Social Security as boomers retire is smaller than the increase in spending for public education when young boomers showed up in record numbers to enroll in kindergarten.
From ASP: Building on Social Security's success
apropos of nothing, it is now...
Thanksgiving Zora catblogging time!
Give thanks!
Given his inability to utter even one sentence in English, people might pay him to not give speeches.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Now that would make more sense.
"The electorate does not consist of accountants. They want an elevator pitch not a business plan pro-forma budget."
What they want is to hear that someone's going to give them a free lunch. This is why we have the problems we do in this country - people are constantly encouraged to ignore reality and push problems off onto another day and onto someone else's plate.
"An elevator pitch should indicate critical priorities and directions. If your critical priority and direction is "fuss with tax codes and pussyfoot around the war", then so be it."
Considering that Social Security is, next to the Defense budget, the single largest expenditure by a governmental unit in this country, and that for many people it is the single largest item in terms of their tax burden, then I would say that is far from being a marginal concern. I sure as heck would like some things straightened out with it sooner than later, because it's my cohort which will take the brunt of it if we don't.
so anyone who has written a law article, any hints to flesh out the footnotes to make them look more scholarly? you know those ramoling 40 line footnotes that mention everything.
yeah, reaiding the footnotes is usually more informative than reading the text.
euphronius | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 6:35 pm
We are absolutely terrified of the question of orginality in research, because short of a textbook case of blatant plagiarism like with Dersh, we think it is very possible that you could unintentionally follow along the same lines as some other person you hadn't read. Every law in science was actually discovered by someone other than its namesake, who failed to get famous.
Does Amtrak keep to schedule? Because I predict that's all anybody will have to say about Chimpy in 40 years.
MP
Nope. Fun to ride but your arrival time must be flexible.
18 pages of text (4500 words) and I have 108 footnotes.
any hints to flesh out the footnotes to make them look more scholarly? you know those ramoling 40 line footnotes that mention everything.
Those don't look good; they look as if you weren't sure which cases were on point, so you threw in the kitchen sink. Follow the bluebook to the letter, though. I mean, follow.the.bluebook.to.the.letter.
so anyone who has written a law article, any hints to flesh out the footnotes to make them look more scholarly? you know those ramoling 40 line footnotes that mention everything.
euphronius
Depends on the subject matter. The only one I had published was on tax policy, and I just overwhelmed the stupid article with a gazillion footnotes, because there were so many to choose from.
We are absolutely terrified of the question of orginality in research, because short of a textbook case of blatant plagiarism like with Dersh, we think it is very possible that you could unintentionally follow along the same lines as some other person you hadn't read. Every law in science was actually discovered by someone other than its namesake, who failed to get famous.
kei & yuri, kittenbringing | 11.24.07 - 6:39 pm | #
-------
the only thing i dont have footnotes now are title headings and intro, conclusion and segue sentences.
18 pages of text (4500 words) and I have 108 footnotes.
euphronius
um... you have backed this masterpiece up on many hard drives, right?
Does Amtrak keep to schedule?
Um, no.
bluebook?
(just kidding, heh)
I wonder who on earth will have Georgie come strutting in to speechify after he's done being preznit.
Think tanks, lobbyists, anyone with money who wants access to other people with money and other people with access to people in power. Bush will be leaving office, but he won't be leaving the ruling class.
What they want is to hear that someone's going to give them a free lunch.
This is what you want to hear from politicians?
3 ellroon.
Now I'm to understand it's because he's talking about Social Security without prefacing "While not as significant issue as the deficit or rendition"? You'll excuse me, but I'm still really, really confused why the heck this is an issue at all.
Jack Roy
I'll take a swing:
A lot of us are deeply concerned about how thoroughly the 'thugs control the basis for every policy discussion in the nation. There isn't a crisis in social security, but "Social Security crisis" as a phrase has taken on a life of its own, and many people still think something has to be done RIGHT NOW or all the boomers will starve.
We'd like to see the "opposition" party, you know, oppose -- not just stupid policies, but the way we discuss issues. For me a great frustration is how we wander into the 'thugs' frame of reference; they only open issues they can win. We accidentally shut them up on this, and now Obama is behaving as though there's something to it.
This is somewhere along a continuum between annoying and alarming.
Cripes... I leave the keyboard for a few minutes to tend to dinner and you've gone from dirty jokes to footnotes?
Sad. Just, sad.
The footnote is the essence of western civilization.
a bad joke:
Genghis Khan, as played by
John Wayne...
"Okay, men, let's go over this one more time....
"We're going to kill the men, steal the sheep, and take the women as our wives."
"Now for God's sake...let's get it right this time."
Modern philosophy is one long footnote to Plato.
3 year old for sale. Slightly used.
He decided putting cereal in the vents of the dish washer was very very funny. Had to take the whole thing apart to clean it out.
I will miss the boy.
"This is what you want to hear from politicians?"
How could you infer that based on my comments?
We'd like to see the "opposition" party, you know, oppose -- not just stupid policies, but the way we discuss issues. For me a great frustration is how we wander into the 'thugs' frame of reference; they only open issues they can win. We accidentally shut them up on this, and now Obama is behaving as though there's something to it.
This is somewhere along a continuum between annoying and alarming.
And if you still "don't get it" after V. for Virginia's spelled it out for you like that, then you don't want to get it.
What they want is to hear that someone's going to give them a free lunch.
Well, they also want to hear that the people they don't like are going to be oppressed, and that the people they fear are going to be killed.
All major GOP campaign themes.
The footnote is the essence of western civilization.
buzz
c.f. Imperial Spies, pps 227-29, Plotke
.
All I ever wanted to do in life was write a good footnote.
Best Footnote Ever:
In a brieft submitted to the US Supreme Court:
1. "cite the usual crap."
ok styoe advice. I have a recent on topic case with great attention grabing facts that illustrates the legal issues i want to talk about. it naturally should go at the front of the paper - but how do i do that because the cases the district court and circuit court discuss in the opinion ill be disccusing later in the paper. should i move the case to the end of hte paper and start with the boring precdent and controling cases? bleah.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! I gots a new bathtub pretty soon! And TWO new closets!!!
Whooopeeeeeee! I am saved!
.
Oy, blogger iz being teh slow wit teh pitchers.
Does Amtrak keep to schedule? Because I predict that's all anybody will have to say about Chimpy in 40 years.
MP
I started to say, "that would be Giuliani," but then I realized how crazy it is to think he would do anything at all about publicly-subsidized transportation.
How could you infer that based on my comments?
You are a member of the electorate, and you said that this is what the electorate wants to hear.
One of my best-ever favorite threads was the one with just the punch-lines to classic, or classically stupid jokes.
c.f. Imperial Spies, pps 227-29, Plotke
.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Scholar
What they want is to hear that someone's going to give them a free lunch.
Only the MBAs at my company get a free lunch. I think it was because they were trusted to do the accounting and their lunchtime business meetings obviously had to be catered.
Best Footnote Ever:
In a brieft submitted to the US Supreme Court:
1. "cite the usual crap."
Teh excellent.
The footnote is the Hegelian master.
"Well, they also want to hear that the people they don't like are going to be oppressed, and that the people they fear are going to be killed."
Those are also free lunch notions. There's obviously consequences to what we're doing and that's just brushed over.
Cripes... I leave the keyboard for a few minutes to tend to dinner and you've gone from dirty jokes to footnotes?
So these two footnotes went into a whore house....
RE: the bathtub:
if I had it all to do again, I would have installed a deep Japanese soaking tub (the kind with the built-in seat) rather than the cast-iron 5-1/2' whirlpool tub. Though it is a beautiful tub, and I do enjoy it.
The scholarly book would be a contradiction without the footnote.
I mean, follow.the.bluebook.to.the.letter.
We don't know anything about law but we are used to doing very well in English without any preparation. We knock out an A-paper five minutes prior to class (but are useless in math). We got to be that way pretty much only by reading lots and lots of different styles. Very early on we recognized when a person, even in an unfamiliar subject, was treading water, and now it just fracking screams. We cannot imagine that a law professor would be more tolerant.
3 year old for sale. Slightly used.
He decided putting cereal in the vents of the dish washer was very very funny. Had to take the whole thing apart to clean it out.
I will miss the boy.
trifecta |
I would like to have him. A Dog needs a Boy.
I've got a really good corner he'll like too - and a nice bowl too. And the Two-Legs? She'll make sure he's okay.
Deal?
.
i think im going to put it at the end and use it as the centerpiece of my "why american courts are fascist toadies" section.
Cripes... I leave the keyboard for a few minutes to tend to dinner and you've gone from dirty jokes to footnotes?
Yeah, it's a fetish.
Footnotes are merely castles in the air, having no existence except in the terror of a one-sided and empty formalism of thought.
I will miss the boy.
trifecta
Why don't I take him off your hands on a long-term loaner basis? This way I can see if that whole not-having-kids thing was the right way to go, and you can get a break.
I'll give you right of first refusal if i decided to mark him up and sell him on.
Jennifer | 11.24.07 - 6:47 pm |
What kind of material is it? Is it the totally unnatural green stone with the multicolored and gold flecks?
Oy, blogger iz being teh slow wit teh pitchers.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
We iz waitn at ur blog, refreshin constantly.
It's a deal. He likes to eat dog biscuits too so it won't put you out much. He also barks whenever the dogs do.
I will send up a flare when blogger decides to actually load these kitteh pitchers.
Footnotes = facts.
At least according to La Chucacabra.
you've gone from dirty jokes to footnotes?
Yeah, it's a fetish.
Yep, I always get hot when I think about sexy footnotes.
lol, footnotes are needed. how the fuck else do you follow what a writer is saying? they claim "joe sued mary on three differnet claims in the Eastern district of New York" like ok fine, nice fact, now give me the cite so i can go read it.
if I had it all to do again, I would have installed a deep Japanese soaking tub (the kind with the built-in seat) rather than the cast-iron 5-1/2' whirlpool tub. Though it is a beautiful tub, and I do enjoy it.
Jennifer
Those are good tubs. I think of my outside jacuzzi as one of those tho. This inside one - this one is a crapshoot. My blessed contractor contracted with the local Kohler supplier for a lot of other work - which netted him -all- their old showpieces.... at just about nil cost. Now - he's sharing!
So these two footnotes went into a whore house....
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
U -- no jokez, U! Kittehs!
(HAH!)
Milton Arbogast | 11.24.07 - 6:47 pm
Those are the numbers themselves.
I'll give you right of first refusal if i decided to mark him up and sell him on.
V for Virginia,pissed at fate
Just remember what happened to Ellen DeGeneres and the doggie....
nice fact, now give me the cite so i can go read it.
euphronius
I thought that was a job for interns you want to discourage.
I would like to have a nice bathtub.
I hates teh one I haz nao.
What kind of material is it? Is it the totally unnatural green stone with the multicolored and gold flecks?
kei & yuri, kittenbringing
What? The tub? The tub is enamelled cast iron. In fact I went through quite a battle with the builder (now my employer) over that tub. He just couldn't get why I wouldn't opt for a cheaper acrylic whirlpool. I told him, because I don't like feeling like I'm in a motel or apartment in my home.
That tub weighed something like 600 - 800 pounds, and one of the guys blames it for his hernia. But it's a gorgeous tub.
I thought that was a job for interns you want to discourage.
George Johnston | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 6:51 pm | #
if you are casually reading a law article piece (lol why?) then footnotes are useless, but when doing research they are essential.
Just remember what happened to Ellen DeGeneres and the doggie....
ellroon
Yeah, but in this case there won't be any witnesses . . . well, shit.
That green stone with gold flecks is the default tub material in Korea and Japan. Other substances are used on a custom basis, but that stuff, which looks nothing like any natural stone, is so common it shows up in anime.
but when doing research they are essential
Wouldn't a hyperlink be faster?
Deal!
Make sure he brings his blankie and his ticking clock. We'll be in good shape with the biscuits.
How does he feel about liver?
.
I never did really get the whole Ellen and the dog story, probably because I tuned it out and just got as far as "she had a meltdown on TV regarding a dog". Which really is a whole lot more than I cared to know in the first place, so don't fill me in.
He is more of a kibble kind of toddler.
Those are the numbers themselves.
There are only 10 types of people in the world — those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who understand Gray code.
Which really is a whole lot more than I cared to know in the first place, so don't fill me in.
Jennifer
Moral of stoopid story: read the fine print on contracts you sign.
but when doing research they are essential
Wouldn't a hyperlink be faster?
George Johnston | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 6:54 pm | #
they are all hyperlinked, yeah. on westlaw. its pretty cool. the footnotes are that is.
He is more of a kibble kind of toddler.
trifecta
O-kay! We'll get some Toddler Chow!
.
BTW, legal briefs, the stuff you give t oa judge, dont normally use footnotes but instead have in text citation for some unfathonamble reason. probabaly because back in the day, lawyers and judges werent about to pay to have a printer put in nice footnotes.
O-kay! We'll get some Toddler Chow!
My experience with my nephew informs me that Toddler Chow usually involves processed chicken shaped vaguely like dinosaurs.
Or Spaghetti-os. You may need to run to the store.
Damn. Forgot that I love the boy unconditionally. Gotta keep him.
Everything tastes better if you press it into the shape of a dinosaur.
ABOUT TWO HOURS TO RAZOR!
Obama's obsession with a relative non-issue like Social Security indicates taht he longs to be a full fledged shithead.
If I wanted (another) shithead as President, I'd be jumping up and down for Ill Douche.
Damn. Forgot that I love the boy unconditionally. Gotta keep him.
trifecta
Can we play ball with him anyway? 'Cause we like that a lot and he might too....
Do you want this extra bag of Toddler Chow?
Will you let Him pet my ears?
.
Darik's Boot and Nuke (DBAN) - If you really need to wipe a hard drive. Also useful for upgrading those new Christmas Vista computers to XP. Power on, insert DBAN, F12, Setup, Boot from CD. Hasta la Vista, baby!
btw, i suppose no one want to learn about the state secrets privilege, eh? i know a depressing amount about it know. le sigh.
BTW, legal briefs, the stuff you give t oa judge, dont normally use footnotes but instead have in text citation for some unfathonamble reason. probabaly because back in the day, lawyers and judges werent about to pay to have a printer put in nice footnotes.
euphronius
Seems like though that in a brief the cite is so central to the argument for the case that it would belong in the flow of text. Whereas, for the study of law, including cites in the flow of text which is not about arguing a case but rather about outlining the law and the precedents which brought it about would be distracting.
But I'm not a lawyer.
I am voting for myself as a write in. I have a 100% agreement record with myself.
Oooh, Howard lost! Yayayay!
The ducks just lost to UCLA.
USC wins Pac10 with a win over UCLA next Saturday.
Everything tastes better if you press it into the shape of a dinosaur.
So true! It's a shame more high end restaurants aren't taking advantage of this trend..
We are needing to get into the bootness because we got a great Seagate backup system, but it runs Win by default and our ubuntu machine doesn't recognize it. The various forums say you wipe the thing through your machine, and that sounds easy to dork up.
Seems like though that in a brief the cite is so central to the argument for the case that it would belong in the flow of text. Whereas, for the study of law, including cites in the flow of text which is not about arguing a case but rather about outlining the law and the precedents which brought it about would be distracting.
But I'm not a lawyer.
Jennifer | 11.24.07 - 7:05 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
it is distracting. but you learn to read over them. also, precdent can be persuasive in its own right. often it is controlling and it doesnt matter waht you say other than pointing the court to your cites.
K and Y, we missed you btw. maybe you were posting on another name.
My neice was here for the past couple of days, and she was telling me excitedly about how great Billie Holiday was, playing "Strange Fruit" for me on her ipod.
I felt really proud.
The case of Thomas V Long Dong Silver comes to mind.
Thanksgiving Zora catblogging time!
That cat is beautiful.
Okay, I givs U kitteh PoRn nao:
http://plush-life.blogspot.com/2...itten-
porn.html
Stop UR rioting at once.
euphronius | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 7:10 pm |
We had done that and we had also been away. However, whenever we posted under another name, people pretty much were able to guess who we were.
Heh. Iz only 41 degrees here.
Maybe summer is finally over.
Stop UR rioting at once.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
AHHHHHHHHHHH!
BAYBEEEEE KITTTEEEEEES!
AHHHHHHHHHHH!
AHHHHHHHHHHH!
BAYBEEEEE KITTTEEEEEES!
They wuz cute behbehs.
U supposed to say EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEp!
I just made myself a nice turkey pot pie and biscuits for dinner. Quite good if I say so m'self.
Stop UR rioting at once.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
Awwwwww....
Thx for teh kittehs, 4lg.
Proud to be an American, Part N in a series of N+1:
I'm listening to a podcast of This American Life from week before last. It's about the black/white political divide in Chicago.
When Harold Washington was elected mayor (1983) he was on a radio show (Ira played a clip); a caller asked, "I understand when you move into City Hall you're going to replace all the elevators with vines. Is that true?"
I hang my head in shame.
However, whenever we posted under another name, people pretty much were able to guess who we were.
kei & yuri
However did they do that?
Ware haz evry1 goan?
Not only is immigration reform the morally right and compassionate thing to do; not only is it the practical and sensible thing to do; it’s also the politically smart thing to do. The American people are ready for it, and the Hispanic population is growing. The demonization of immigrants may play well with the Republican base, but it’s more and more of a loser outside of it. The anti-immigration ship is sinking, but Rahm and Shuler want to jump on it - and take the rest of the party with them.
Consider also Athenae’s great post about the “embarrassment squick” of watching Democrats talk big and act small, again and again
Opposition: You’re Doing It Wrong
U supposed to say EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEp!
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEP!
If you really need to wipe a hard drive.
Well, I know a faster way to do it, but that's a full security wipe, everything is gone permanently.
By "everything", I include the platters....
The demonization of immigrants may play well with the Republican base, but it’s more and more of a loser outside of it.
Lou Dobbs would give the Statue of Liberty a rifle to shoot those friggin wops, spics, and jews before they got to Ellis Island.
It's quiet in here . . . too quiet.
Lou Dobbs would give the Statue of Liberty a rifle to shoot those friggin wops, spics, and jews before they got to Ellis Island.
spinoza
Lacks style. How about mounting lasers in her eye sockets?
SHEETS!
Well, we actually went to a immigration reform position following the writings of independent leftist California freelance journalist Robert Lindsay, but it's not something Pat Buchanan would recognize. In American politics the State offers you a brainless immigration position (racism) and an equally brainless reaction (allow all immigration because otherwise it's racism). In fact Mexican immigrants coming here to be exploited as slaves, destroy what had been non-slave jobs in the past, and commit crimes of necessity is a disaster all around. The best answer is to address our relationship with our neighbors, which creates the need of the most desperate to risk the border crossing.
"Comment by Ann Coulter Fan Club blocked. [unkill][show comment]"
As opposed to your favorite porn of uppity niggers gettin' dawgs sicced on 'em and they nappy heads busted?
Or are you more of the Nazi death camp films that are essentially unavailable to the public at large, because they are just so unspeakable?
Yeah, I think you're the Nazi death camp movie type.
In any event, Welcome to Killfile, HELL!
Now fuck off and die, jack. There's a good little shitmonkey.
someday I will find the correct recipe for the crusts for pot pies. I like to make a 8x8 dish of pot pie, but it always seems too dry. I'm on trial # 39.
Lovely, a holocaust denialist that Robert Lindsay.
Same old K&Y.
Obama is a tool. He's been perhaps the biggest disappointment to me in my entire voting-age life.
Robert Lindsay also defends the white kids in Jena against the uppity negroes.
Why K&Y. Why?
I would like to have a nice bathtub.
I hates teh one I haz nao.
ef u haz cialis u has one on teh top of deh hillz
Forgot that I love the boy unconditionally. Gotta keep him.
trifecta
i haz fund yur akiles heal
I've said it before, but it bears repeating:
Fuck Obama.
Thanks
Ok...
Obama is virulently opposed to privatization, has disavowed the word 'crisis' and favors a sensible progressive tax hike on Social Security (that HRC cynically demonized, by the way) that will help shore up it's long-term financing.
So of course, it's time to shoot Obama in the face.
After you do that, and after you get done shooting HRC in the face for being too hawkish and pro-corporate, we can all welcome a President Guiliani in 2009.
In other words, many of you are acting like Obama has sold out basic party principles on Social Security, but he hasn't. When a major dem sells out a major party principle, that sounds like the time to start screaming (instead of just chiding).
Their side:
-Privatize social security
-Privatize health care
-More tax cuts for the rich
-Stay in Iraq forever (except for Ron Paul)
-Deport all brown people
Our side (including Obama):
-Shore up social security with a progressive tax hike
-Roll back tax cuts for the wealthy.
-Expand considerably public health care.
-Get out of Iraq (at least fairly soon)
-Sensible and humane immigration policy.
Why are we yelling about Obama again? Because his exact 'strategy' was not precisely to our personal liking?
god damnit. every time we hold off the repubs some "seperate myself from the pack" type fucks shit up
We're "yelling" about Obama because he's made the very issue of Social Security reform a front-burner issue again, which lends the typical "And even the liberal _____ agrees that there is a problem here!" credibility to renewed Republican efforts to gin up some phony "crisis" in Social Security to provide cover for gutting the system.
While there's nothing wrong with Obama's idea to shore up SS in particular, the fact of the matter is that SS is about 20th on the top 10 list of things that need to be fixed in this country under the next president. It's the fact that he's treating it as anything other than that, and thereby tossing progressives under the bus in the name of his presidential ambition, that has people steamed.
obama is running a toxic campaign. homophobes, wingnut framing and encouraging hillary hatred in his supporters. it's the same thing bradley did to gore, cheered on by the media whores. it's like he isn't even running for the dem nomination. exactly to whom is he appealing? when I read comments by his supporters I'm sickened as much as when I read comments by the korner kidz.
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