I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Woo hoo... Bush is gonna run Iraq's economy too?
I can't wait to see what that's like!
Well, let's see - first Bushco made sure that Iraq was disarmed before it went in and "conquered" it. Now it is making sure that there will be no competition for all Dick Cheney's and Bush Pere's companies doing business in Iraq. I bet Disney already has plans drawn up for "Ur World."
Re: the story Jeanne wishes she'd written - I've taken The New Yorker for 23 years. I've noticed a very marked anti-Bush political slant ever since the war in Iraq started. There've been some exceptions to that, but overall, it has been noticeable.
"We recently found two mobile biological weapons facilities which were capable of producing biological agents.”
George W. Bush
Camp Sayliya, Qatar
“Bush Pledges to 'Reveal the Truth' About Weapons of Mass Destruction “
The Washington Post, Thursday, June 5, 2003
“The trailers probably are part of a two- or possibly three-trailer unit. Both trailers we have found probably are designed to produce BW [biological warfare] agent in unconcentrated [sic] slurry. The missing trailer or trailers from one complete unit would be equipped for growth media preparation and post-harvest processing and, we would expect, have equipment such as mixing tanks, centrifuges, and spray dryers. These other units that we have not yet found would be needed to prepare and sterilize the media and to concentrate and possibly dry the agent, before the agent is ready for introduction into a delivery system, such as bulk-filled munitions.”
Iraqi Mobile Biological Warfare Agent Production Plants
A Central Intelligence Agency Report, 28 May 2003
Objectively, then, according to the Central Intelligence Agency, Mr. Bush is a liar. The apparatus discovered in Mosul, Iraq is—and one cannot absolutely so conclude—at best a mere component of a biological weapons factory, of which no other part has been found. Mr. Bush’s willingness to figuratively fasten himself (twice in one week!) to these two trailers of ambiguous purpose as the justification for a terrible war, a continuing drain on American wealth and lives, the harrowing of a half-century of international cooperation, and earning America the enmity of much of the world’s population, stinks of desperation. It implies that there's no better casus belli coming down the pike. Gone will be HR 114-107 and Congress' finding that Iraq continues “to possess and develop a significant chemical and biological weapons capability” and that “members of al-Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens […] are known to be in Iraq.”
Get Bush scared. Then, keep the scare on him.
Iraq is now, for all practical purposes, a colony of the Bush Crime Family.
Brian C.B. - Yep. Keep on saying it: Bush lied, thousands died. Because there was and is no justification for that war. No matter how many times the right wingnuts say: "But Saddam Hussein was a bad man," it still doesn't justify what happened. Bush lied. People died. And they are still dying. We should all march on Washington chanting that, like in the old days when the marchers chanted "Hey hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?" It gave poor old Lyndon nightmares. I'd love to give Chimpy nightmares. In fact, if I could have one wish besides seeing him impeached tomorrow, it would be to give him nightmares for the rest of his unnatural life.
http://www.sundayherald.com/34491
Check it out. According to the Sunday Herald (Edinburgh) the British were running their own version of the Office of Special Projects since 1991, and there is a CIA analyst who is quoted regarding the OSP itself. A rebel Labour MP promises to raise the Herald report in Commons on Thursday.
OT (but would make a good thread)
A division inside the British intelligence agency that is a group of ideologues with pre-determined notions of truth and reality. They take bits of intelligence to support their agenda and ignore anything contrary.
Not to be outdone there is the Office of Special Plans (OSP) in the US Pentagon. The OSP was set up by Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to gather intelligence which would prove the case for war. In a staggering attack on the OSP, former CIA officer Larry Johnson told the Sunday Herald the OSP was 'dangerous for US national security and a threat to world peace', adding that it 'lied and manipulated intelligence to further its agenda of removing Saddam'.
Source
All the diversity of that economic "summit" held in Waco last year. Wonder what Wojo thinks about it?
Meanwhile across the Atlantic, it appears that Mr. Blair has decided to pick a fight with the wrong people, the Independent is reporting.
I have always said, we will know if this was about the oil, when it is all said and done, a year, 2 or 5 from now, and the Iraqi oil fields are privitazed. And, call me crazy, but I think they will be.
Then, that is the proof that this was about the oil. If when the Iraqi's have control of their government but not control of their own natural resource.
Only time will tell.
I think the intelligence community could hang aWol out to dry if they got mad enough. They know what the Admin. was told prior to 9/11, and what was ignored. They know the stuff that has been classified about the events of that day. They hold the cards, I think, and I find it interesting that it is the intelligence people on both sides of the Atlantic that look to blow the whole Iraq war wide open. Bush and Blair have apparently really pissed them off.
Up to this point, it has been key to the Bush administration to control the flow of information in the media.
They don't have enough control over the European press or internet to make this go away.
Amazingly the public opinion polls have stayed with them. But one negative thing after another has got to take its toll eventually. Maybe this is the tipping point.
Bush Bleat:
"The U.N. and U.S. intelligence sources have known for some time that Saddam Hussein has materials to produce chemical and biological weapons, but he has not accounted for them:
26,000 liters of anthrax—enough to kill several million people
38,000 liters of botulinum toxin
500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agents
Almost 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/respon...nse/
disarm.html
-------------------------
Q If we do have to go to war and --
THE PRESIDENT: With which country?
Q With Iraq. And if -- and with our economy stagnating, what makes you confident that we can afford --
THE PRESIDENT: First of all, you know, I'm hopeful we won't have to go war, and let's leave it at that.
Q But if we do, though, what --
THE PRESIDENT: Until Saddam Hussein makes up his mind to disarm -- see, it's his choice to make. See, you need to ask him that question, not me.
Q But the White House is drawing up plans to pay for the war, if we come to that. So why --
THE PRESIDENT: Well, let's leave it at if, for a while then, until it happens.
...
Q One more. Are you satisfied that the inspectors are getting to Saddam's weapon scientists?
THE PRESIDENT: He is a man who likes to play games and charades. The question is, will Saddam Hussein disarm. The world has asked him to disarm from weapons of mass destruction. The first indication isn't very positive that he will voluntarily disarm. After all, he put out a declaration that the world realized was false. And the inspectors are there to verify whether or not he is disarming. You hear these reports about Iraqi scientists being interviewed, but there's a "minder" in the room.
You know, Saddam Hussein -- hopefully he realizes we're serious, and hopefully he disarms peacefully. He's a danger to the American people, he's a danger to our friends and allies. For 11 long years, the world has dealt with him. And now he's got to understand, his day of reckoning is coming. And therefore, he must disarm voluntarily, I hope he does.
All right, let's go get a coffee.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/r...1/
20030102.html
Tena, you're downright inspirational. The suggestion to march on Washington chanting "Bush lied, people died" brings back many fond (original meaning: slightly crazy) memories of the Nixon years. But think back a few months to the pre-war anti-war rallies that were curtailed and stifled and unreported as much as possible. I think it's even harder to protest government policy now than it was in the '60s and early '70s. (Please persuade me I'm wrong.)
Q Sir, why should we be more worried about Saddam Hussein, who has no nuclear weapons, than Kim Chong-il, who is unstable and does have nuclear weapons?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, first of all, I think it's important to remember that Saddam Hussein was close to having a nuclear weapon. We don't know whether or not he has a nuclear weapon. We do expect him to disarm his weapons of mass destruction, that's what we expect.
Secondly, the international community has been trying to resolve the situation in Iraq through diplomacy for 11 years. And for 11 years, Saddam Hussein has defied the international community. And now we've brought the world together to send a clear signal: we expect him to disarm, to get rid of his weapons of mass destruction. The first step in determining whether or not he will do that was discouraging. His declaration was short. And the international community recognized that, that he wasn't forthcoming.
Again, I hope this Iraq situation will be resolved peacefully. One of my New Year's resolutions is to work to deal with these situations in a way so that they're resolved peacefully. But thus far, it appears that, first look, that Saddam Hussein hasn't heard the message.
...
Q I have a question for you.
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Patsy.
Q Did you keep last year's resolution to eat less cheeseburgers?
THE PRESIDENT: A matter of fact, it's an interesting question she asked: did I keep last year's resolution to eat less cheeseburgers. (Laughter.) And the answer is, yes, to the extent that I'm now comfortable in having a cheeseburger today. (Laughter.)
I hope you all are enjoying yourself here.
MRS. BUSH: Happy New Year, everybody.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/r...20021231-
1.html
"I think it's even harder to protest government policy now than it was in the '60s and early '70s. (Please persuade me I'm wrong.)"
None of the one party system give a shit about public opinion. Calls to politicians ran ten to one against a war vote, millions of people demonstrated around the world. War still happened.
Too much big money in the system, makes politicians arrogant. They don't need the people anymore, except election year. Then it is a choice between the lesser of two evils.
This is the time of the small minded. There are no great plans for the people. Only small greedy plans for individuals.
This is nothing new, look at Clinton policies. Welfare represented less than one per cent of the budget and it needed reformed? Meanwhile he increases us arms sales from %35 to %65, and doesn't sign the landmine ban.
President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat
Remarks by the President on Iraq
Cincinnati Museum Center - Cincinnati Union Terminal
Cincinnati, Ohio
...
Some ask how urgent this danger is to America and the world. The danger is already significant, and it only grows worse with time. If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today -- and we do -- does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?
...
We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas. Saddam Hussein also has experience in using chemical weapons. He has ordered chemical attacks on Iran, and on more than forty villages in his own country. These actions killed or injured at least 20,000 people, more than six times the number of people who died in the attacks of September the 11th.
And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons. Every chemical and biological weapon that Iraq has or makes is a direct violation of the truce that ended the Persian Gulf War in 1991. Yet, Saddam Hussein has chosen to build and keep these weapons despite international sanctions, U.N. demands, and isolation from the civilized world.
Iraq possesses ballistic missiles with a likely range of hundreds of miles -- far enough to strike Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and other nations -- in a region where more than 135,000 American civilians and service members live and work. We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States. And, of course, sophisticated delivery systems aren't required for a chemical or biological attack; all that might be required are a small container and one terrorist or Iraqi intelligence operative to deliver it.
...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/r...20021007-
8.html
In the near term, most of the interesting action on this matter will be happening in Britain, rather than in the US.
Mr. Blair is in a bucket load of trouble, and this issue will be boiling most of the summer. Only after the matter peaks there and some people pay a price will the issue begin to move to the US in a more noticeable way. It will be framed as what happens when allied with the US administration, more so if things continue as they have begun to in Australia.
One noticeable thing about the British parliamentary system is that members address each other as "the right honourable gentleman", and they mean it. The emphasis on honor is basic to the political climate there.
I encourage everyone to watch Prime Minister's Questions this Sunday (C-SPAN 9PM ET and again 3 hours later). It's one of the more pointed sessions in recent times.
Last One:
President: Iraqi Regime Danger to America is "Grave and Growing"
Radio Address by the President to the Nation
...
The danger to America from the Iraqi regime is grave and growing. The regime is guilty of beginning two wars. It has a horrible history of striking without warning. In defiance of pledges to the United Nations, Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. Saddam Hussein has used these weapons of death against innocent Iraqi people, and we have every reason to believe he will use them again.
...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/r...0/
20021005.html
"They fear they are being lined up to take the blame for faulty intelligence used to justify the Iraq war."
That's taking place in Britain. Meanwhile here Bush's America, the rightwing controlled propaganda outlets are starting to issue more and more reports which refer to "faulty intelligence". Note, none of these media outlets go so far as to say Bush and his henchmen knowingly lied to the American people. No, they've already started to spin it as the Chimp was a victim of misinformation from the CIA. I hope the spooks leak everything they might have on Bush, Cheney, Dumsfeld, et al.
Anonymous - I think you are too pessimistic. If enough people here start making enough noise, politicians will listen, because they like to get elected. It's that simple. If you get all downhearted and say "nothing is going to work," and don't do anything, then, self-fulfilling prophecy.
That said, I think the avalanche will begin in Britain, but I see pebbles rolling off the mountain here, pretty steadily. The trick is to keep them moving. Don't let people forget. the minute we say we are helpless, we are.
One more thought, if I may. I hope everything about how the Bush regime lied to the American people comes to light just prior to the Repugnican National Convention (Which Karl Rove and co. have had the apparent sensitivity to schedule for the same week as the 3rd anniversary of the Sept. 11th attack). Can you imagine if this whole thing blew up in their faces the very same week the GOP intends to crown their king for a 2nd term?? We can only hope, can't we?
Gene - the spooks seem to be getting pretty tired of the whole spin. Anyway you look at it, it is not going to look good here if Blair goes down and the intelligence people in Britain are the ones who take him down. There really can't be anything that can be pinned just on Blair that doesn't lead directly to Bushie. Bushie's only defense is his stupidity, but if Rove tries to rely on that to save him, it could be his undoing. People didn't really think that Reagan was dumb, just innocent when he claimed he had no knowledge of Iran Contra. I kind of think that wouldn't work with Bushie. Most of America pretty much knows that Bushie is really not very bright.
frabjous - All I can say is that if everyone keeps saying it and gets out there, eventually we get heard. On another thread today someone commented that his or her step son is in the marines, and that he and a lot of the other service people in Iraq are not buying the party line anymore. Things keep going south there, and once they realize that they are getting screwed with their benefits too, there could be a lot of yelling. Let's hope their votes get counted correctly - in fact, let's all try to do what we can about that, whatever that might be.
Sorry, everyone, but on that note, I've got to close down and go to bed. Long day. Later.
Tena -- I agree, everyone has to be saying "Bush Lied" -- not in big demo's where we are dependent on corporate media to report it -- but everywhere else. Say it in Grocery lines, at the Super America, in Cafes and of course in the workplace. Lied to the people -- lied to congress. If people hear it over and over again from other just ordinary people, there is no way the message gets shut out.
If someone agrees with you -- compare notes. Which lie was worse? If people hear the conviction a few times a week -- they will be more open to the information. People need to be helped to feel they were taken for a ride -- that their intelligence was insulted. Thousands of us commenting in all sorts of ordinary social situations is better than any TV item or any demo.
Remarks to the United Nations Security Council
Secretary Colin L. Powell
New York City
February 5, 2003
My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we are giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence. I will cite some examples, and these are from human sources.
...
Numerous human sources tell us that the Iraqis are moving not just documents and hard drives, but weapons of mass destruction, to keep them from being found by inspectors. While we were here in this Council chamber debating Resolution 1441 last fall, we know, we know from sources that a missile brigade outside Baghdad was dispersing rocket launchers and warheads containing biological warfare agent to various locations, distributing them to various locations in western Iraq.
Most of the launchers and warheads had been hidden in large groves of palm trees and were to be moved every one to four weeks to escape detection.
We also have satellite photos that indicate that banned materials have recently been moved from a number of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction facilities.
Let me say a word about satellite images before I show a couple. The photos that I am about to show you are sometimes hard for the average person to interpret, hard for me. The painstaking work of photo analysis takes experts with years and years of experience, poring for hours and hours over light tables. But as I show you these images, I will try to capture and explain what they mean, what they indicate, to our imagery specialists.
Let's look at one. This one is about a weapons munition facility, a facility that holds ammunition at a place called Taji. This is one of about 65 such facilities in Iraq. We know that this one has housed chemical munitions. In fact, this is where the Iraqis recently came up with the additional four chemical weapons shells.
Here you see 15 munitions bunkers in yellow and red outlines. The four that are in red squares represent active chemical munitions bunkers.
...
http://www.state.gov/secretary/r.../2003/
17300.htm
hadenough: Keep it coming! Your postings should be collected and read by more than just us here.
Sara: You're absolutely right. I have had a great week or so posing questions about this abominable administration's actions to my co-workers and friends... and I'm seeing some agreement and ... dare I say... a shift towards indignation/questioning from those who previously never gave these things much thought. Sparks ignite flames which will burn out this cancer in our democracy. If their objective is to crush us from the top down, we must build from the bottom up.
TALK to people. They're sharper than you think. Information will set you free. It's the American way. It's the HUMAN way.
Blair's getting diced and threshed
Intelligence officers are holding a "smoking gun" which proves that they were subjected to a series of demands by Tony Blair's staff in the run-up to the Iraq war.
The officers are furious about the accusation levelled by the Leader of the Commons, John Reid, that "rogue elements" are at work in the security services. They fear they are being lined up to take the blame for faulty intelligence used to justify the Iraq war.
The intelligence services were so concerned about demands made by Downing Street for evidence to use against Iraq that extensive files have been built up detailing communications with Mr Blair's staff.
This is how Nixon got impeached. It was when he made a move to make others in the administration into to scapegoats in order to protect the President. Nixon was a crook and Bush is a lair and it looks like Blair is headed toward impeachment. It's a good thing the UK was juniors sidekick because with Blairs fall so then to will go Bush.
At least the Brit's still care about the truth. Thank God for Robin Cook.
Oh geezz,
Anyone watching FOX news.
Colin Powell makes a statement to
Tony Snow that made Snow angry - there was a moment there were it actually made Tony fairly pissed off for a brief and shining moment.
Colin Powell said that American's didn't care about the missing WMD's as much as the media was making hay about the whole thing.
That noticeable tick Snow off.
FOX isn't owned by Tony Snow unfortunately because there for a brief and shining moment Tony Snow was about to turn into a real journalist just before he remember who the hell it was he worked for.
Ok, I officially sentence Powell to the duck pit. I thought at one time that he was honorable. I didn't realize he had been involved in the My Lai coverup. I had hopes that he could moderate this extremist admin.
No More. Powell is a lying suck up and a disgrace. Into the duck pit - loose the Mergansers!
There were two main tip-offs that Powell is not an honorable man:
1) Bush appointed him, and Bush makes an effort not to appoint honorable men.
2) He hasn't resigned.
PNAC! PNAC! PNAC!. Give us a bumper sticker slogan, BWAK! BWAK! BWAK!
Not only is CP not honorable, go see TheBlackCommentator.com for some good stuff, he raised a rat bastard of a son too.
Heh, Tena, I like it. "To the duck pit!" has a better ring than "To jail!". I hope you get the chance to shout it soon.
Communism had its satellite nations...
Capitalism has Iraq...
It gave poor old Lyndon nightmares. I'd love to give Chimpy nightmares. In fact, if I could have one wish besides seeing him impeached tomorrow, it would be to give him nightmares for the rest of his unnatural life.
Tena, evidently LBJ had a conscience -- think it'd work with this one? Plus they'd probably plug his ears so he wouldn't hear us.
"Loose the mergansers!" Hey, Tena, are you a birder?
Alas, there do not appear to be mergansers in FL.
Would that be;
" Cry havoc and Loose the mergansers of war!"
Catalexis, look for mergansers in Florida in the winter.
WMD = Wild Merganser Ducks, threatening us with being nibbled to death!
Europe skeptical of Iraq-ricin link
Wednesday, February 12, 2003 Posted: 2:58 PM EST (1958 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- European intelligence officials questioned U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell's contention Wednesday that the lethal poison involved in a terrorist plot broken up in Britain came from Iraq.
Powell cited the plot in testimony before the House International Relations Committee, arguing that part of the danger of not disarming Iraq lay in possible alliances with terrorists.
"The ricin that is bouncing around Europe now originated in Iraq -- not in the part of Iraq that is under Saddam Hussein's control, but his security forces know all about it," Powell said.
But investigators have said that arrests in Europe found suspected terrorists trained in biological and chemical weapons in the Pankisi Gorge region of Georgia and nearby Chechnya -- and the traces of the ricin found in a British raid were clearly "homemade."
A French intelligence source said he was "stunned" by Powell's comment.
"There is no, repeat, no suggestion that the ricin was anything but locally produced," he said. "It was bad quality, not technically sophisticated."
Further, the source said, British authorities "are clear" that the poison was "home-made."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/me...icin/
index.html
Colin, do you hear a faint QUACKING sound in the distance?
In the final analysis, I don't really think it much matters if ''the government" (except possibly the democrats running for office) listen to the protesters.
What the protests did, and it was terribly important, is to let an awful lot of people know that they were not the only ones who were appalled and disgusted, and that all those talking heads knew it and chose not to share it with us.
I think when this is all a distant ugly memory, those demonstrations and how they were handled is going to be seen as a turning point.
frabjous - Re: Mergansers - Where I am now, on the second largest natural lake in Colorado (that is subject to some controversy, however) there are mergansers, among many other species of duck. The mergansers fish eating ducks with long thin bills that have sharp little teeth. I think they are the perfect ducks for the pit.
I'm an amateur birder, amateur lepidopterist and amateur geologist during my summers in the San Juan Mountains. A flock of Canada Geese just went by, honking, and my hummingbird feeders need refilled, and pretty soon I have to get the seed feeder in for the night so that I don't attract bears. One got in my house last summer - god what a mess. I came home from work and my whole kitchen was trashed, and the bear had shit on the carpet in the living room. Thank god it was gone.
Ok, back to the Bush crime syndicate.
Wonderful comments everyone. Sara, yes, re: talking to people I've found people I barely know are anxious to talk about what's happening, and even those who need to give any President a residue of respect turn out to have questions about where this one's taking this country.
Tena, a flock of Canadian geese hasn't flown by anywhere I've been for twenty years. Lucky you, bears and all.
Leah A - haloscan went down just as I was posting an answer to you. Hope you get it this time.
I bless every day that I am here. I bless my parents for bringing me up here the first time when I was 18 months old. I bless them for having a house here, even though they sold it while I was in grad school. I was an only child, and after I lost my mom (my dad was already gone,) I sold her house in Dallas and bought myself a little place here. Now I spend 4 months a year here, and I'm grateful to my husband, who is back in Dallas, for understanding that I love the San Juan Mountains so much that if I didn't have this, I'd die. I spent the day today with 2 friends hanging off the slide of a slope over the Lake Fork of the Gunnison River at the site of an old calcite mine. I filled my pack with calcite pieces. They don't look like much unless you have a short wave uv light, then they flouresce deep orange, red, yellow, blue. I wish I could live here all the time, but I'll take what I can get.
Saddam and his weapons are now roaming the countryside and the scary part is Bush with all his power and all his men can't find either.
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