I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
joe biden?
the guy from delaware, right? that's what all the hoopla was about?
Sure is.
Thread Fraiche.
On closer examination, this Biden guy is a good pick. He'll appeal to a bloc of voters we need in PA, OH, and the midwest.
noblejoanie | 08.23.08 - 10:59 am | #
because he's done so well in the last five presidential campaigns.
*sigh*
i guess it really doesn't matter. obama will win no matter who he picked. and the party ain't moving an inch left any time soon, no one has given them any reason too. we're all just relieved it won't be mccain, it's a good thing our strategy of picking the most electable candidate is such a solid one.
but joe biden?
re-HICA!
.
Cindy McCain and the Bush tax cuts.
Yet lots of people are liberal!
"so if you want to slap a label on be, go right ahead!"
-- opus the penguin
Russ Feingold?
dirk g, it is who it is.
.He also is good with union crowds, helping in Ohio.
trifecta
Well, that's what we need, and that's why I was hoping for Hillary. I guess with her, though, there was the real possibility that she would have taken a dive just to try for 2012.
Dennis Kucinich?
John Hodgman on c-span2.
Democrats are liberals? We're DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posting again, just because it makes me lmao. via ezra, biden being biden:
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/
blo...den_as_v#108507
Yet lots of people are liberal!
liberal schmibrel. most americans want progressive taxes, single payer health care, solid guaranteed social security, and america out of iraq.
Barney Frank
dirk g, it is who it is.
plantsman | 08.23.08 - 11:06 am | #
sure, NOW it is.
o, barak, you are such a tease!
Biden called himself 'liberal' on his Facebook page:
www.facebook.com/joebiden
I'm voting GOP this year because I am for:
mom not Marx
commerce not communes
Petraeus not Betrayus
Lee Greenwood not DJ Kill Whitey
God bless America not God Damn AmeriKKKa
Robert "Fire Breathing Liberal" Wexler isn't so prominent yet, but that may change.
joe biden?
the guy from delaware, right? that's what all the hoopla was about?
dirk gently,socioapathetic
I haven't had enough coffee yet.
I'm not sure there is enough coffee for me to move on into acceptance. Where did my pleading phase go?
At last, fy shows his true colors.
i mean, forget about the air rushing out of the hillary balloon - that never would have happened anyway. but biden?
i guess i have never forgiven him for the bankruptcy bill. but aside from that, he has spent 20 years not generating any enthusiasm in presidential campaigns. stephen colbert outpolled him.
On closer examination, this Biden guy is a good pick. He'll appeal to a bloc of voters we need in PA, OH, and the midwest.
noblejoanie | 08.23.08 - 10:59 am | #
That's what I think, too. Someone earlier today said that "little old ladies" like him ... not my words, but unfortunately, it's true.
To decode this, the people who don't want to vote for a black guy will be happy with this pick. And whether we like it or not, we need those fools.
Hey! I signed up last night for e-mail @ Obama.com (or whatever it is), and I got an e-mail this morning that Biden is the VP pick!
Too bad it came at 7 a.m., and I was still asleep. But hey, I got the word!
I feel so special.....They even want me to send Joe a personal note.
Let's see: middle "C" sounds about right.
I hope Atrios doesn't get sent to Gitmo On The Platte.
If he does get sent to GOTP I recommend making reservations for the big pile of naked prisoner extravaganza.
A new McCain ad shows 2007 footage of an ABC debate with the Democratic presidential candidates in which Biden affirmed his belief that Obama is not ready to be president.
“You were asked, ‘Is he ready?’” the moderator, ABC’s George Stephanopoulous, says to Biden. “You said, ‘I think he can be ready but right now, I don’t believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training,’”
“I think that I stand by the statement,” Biden responds, with Obama standing to his right on the stage.
The ad also shows Biden on a 2005 segment on “The Daily Show” saying, “I would be honored to run with or against John McCain, because I think the country would be better off.”
I can't think of any prominent Republican politician who self-describes as bigoted, though some adopt the mushier "conservative." Yet lots of their supporters are bigots!
I give Biden credit for changing, but this shit is awful and really hard to forget:
In July 2002, at the first Senate hearing on Iraq, then-Senate Foreign Relations Committee chair Joe Biden pledged his allegiance to Bush's war. Ever since, the blunt-spoken Biden has seized every opportunity to dismiss antiwar critics within his own party, vocally denouncing Bush's handling of the war while doggedly supporting the war effort itself. Biden carried this message into the Kerry campaign as the candidate's closest foreign policy confidant, and a few days after announcing his own intention to run for the presidency in 2008, he gave a major speech at the Brookings Institution in which he criticized rising calls for withdrawal as a "gigantic mistake."
http://www.thenation.com/doc/200...20050829/
berman
To decode this, the people who don't want to vote for a black guy will be happy with this pick.
but they still won't vote for a black guy.
no matter what.
i don't need them.
I've heard that the McCain house number is up to eleven in some counts. I guess that Cindy handles all the money matters because the girl toy isn't good with figures.
mom not Marx
Your kids are probably disappointed.
"i guess i have never forgiven him for the bankruptcy bill."
he wasn't the only one. but for some reason others that voted for it would have been acceptable. brilliant even.
just sayin'.
shawn johnson johnson is right!
but joe biden?
dirk gently,socioapathetic
Some deities have no sense of humor, but do have a well developed sense of the whimsical.
I know. I'm reaching here. Work with me.
Biden ranks fourth in seniority among Democrats, sixth overall; how's that for a fresh face?—Biden practiced law for three years. That's it. Three years of fresh-out-of-law school practice represents the sum and total of Biden's profession experience before joining the Senate.
Obama-Biden? A candidate with an astonishingly thin professional background—Community organizer? Desultory lecturer in law school?—has just named as his running mate a man whose principal professional achievement is to have perfected his skills as a gasbag.
On closer examination, this Biden guy is a good pick. He'll appeal to a bloc of voters we need in PA, OH, and the midwest.
noblejoanie
He'll bring in the much needed MBNA vote.
I'm voting GOP this year because I am for:
mom not Marx
commerce not communes
Petraeus not Betrayus
Lee Greenwood not DJ Kill Whitey
God bless America not God Damn AmeriKKKa
McCain's Wright, Obama's wrong | 08.23.08 - 11:10 am | #
Comedy gold here, folks.
"Mom, not Marx" ....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I haven't had enough coffee yet.
I'm not sure there is enough coffee for me to move on into acceptance. Where did my pleading phase go?
R. Manhammer |
There isn't enough coffee, tea, or alcohol. But you better hurry up and accept it, because we're all supposed to "close ranks" and get "excited". Senator Bankruptcy Bill. No matter how many awesome things Joe Biden may have done in his career or his personal life, that bill is an absolute horror. Chris Dodd had it right when he described it as one of the worst laws EVER passed by Congress.
this whole thing makes me tired.
"To decode this, the people who don't want to vote for a black guy will be happy with this pick."
yup. can't have *too much* change, lest it freak out the merkin people.
Biden ranks fourth in seniority among Democrats, sixth overall; how's that for a fresh face?—Biden practiced law for three years. That's it. Three years of fresh-out-of-law school practice represents the sum and total of Biden's profession experience before joining the Senate.
Obama-Biden? A candidate with an astonishingly thin professional background—Community organizer? Desultory lecturer in law school?—has just named as his running mate a man whose principal professional achievement is to have perfected his skills as a gasbag.
ariel52
It's killing you, isn't it?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
because he's done so well in the last five presidential campaigns.
Thank you. Let's face it -- there's a reason he's not president already. HE'S A CRAPPY CANDIDATE!!!!
Jeebus, I don't think picking him is necessarily fatal, but the fact is that Biden's largely nuts, and he has a history of saying REALLY STUPID SHIT. We'll be very lucky if he gets through to November without being a major screwup.
has just named as his running mate a man whose principal professional achievement is to have perfected his skills as a gasbag.
Suck it.
but they still won't vote for a black guy.
no matter what.
i don't need them.
dirk gently,socioapathetic | 08.23.08 - 11:13 am | #
They're the folks who won't admit that they're somewhat racist ("Some of my best friends are black"), and yes, you do need them.
OMG ! Some Democrats are libruls. What will we tell the chillun?
TJ, I'm still going to work to make sure they're elected. The alternative would be horrible.
One thing I don't know is Biden's record on reproductive rights. I need to look that up.
he wasn't the only one. but for some reason others that voted for it would have been acceptable. brilliant even.
not to me.
but even at that, it wasn't their defining vote.
joe biden? he's done a couple of worthwhile things in his long career, i guess. sigh. and he's not evan bayh. but jesus christ.
joe biden.
I think Biden is a good pick
I can't think of any prominent Republican politician who self-describes as bigoted, though some adopt the mushier "conservative." Yet lots of their supporters are bigots!
shawk johnson
So nice I wanted to read it twice.
i have a new drinking game -- a shot every time joe scarborough says 'elitist' while describing democrats.
To decode this, the people who don't want to vote for a black guy will be happy with this pick.
The ones in this particular corner of Alabama are still inconsolable about Hillary, and still having a really hard time getting over it. Our county chair can hardly bring herself even to pronounce Obama's name.
These people don't know Joe Biden from the man in the moon, and he's not going to carry any weight with them. He's not going to get them over not wanting to vote for a black man.
this whole thing makes me tired.
TJ, anti coathanger
Politics'll do that to ya. Have a cookie.
Liberals is immoral. I know cuz some GD Democrat told me dat.
simels has been whining constantly since early in the primary season. He's never satisfied.
One thing I don't know is Biden's record on reproductive rights. I need to look that up.
Pro-choice Catholic.
he wasn't the only one. but for some reason others that voted for it would have been acceptable. brilliant even.
just sayin'.
jdw
He didn't just vote for it. He pushed that thing through the Senate. Twice. (Clinton vetoed it the first time.) He fought harder for that bill than he has ever fought for anything else, as far as I remember.
Pretend otherwise, but Biden & Hillary both hold some responsible for this war.
It's helpful to think of the Democratic strategic class as a pyramid. At the top are politicians like Biden and Clinton, forming the most important and visible public face. Just below are high-ranking former government officials, like UN ambassador Richard Holbrooke, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and Assistant Secretary of State Jamie Rubin. These are the people who devise and execute foreign policy and frame the substance of the message.
Chris Dodd had it right when he described it as one of the worst laws EVER passed by Congress.
this whole thing makes me tired.
TJ, anti coathanger
I'm with you.
Jeebus, I don't think picking him is necessarily fatal, but the fact is that Biden's largely nuts, and he has a history of saying REALLY STUPID SHIT. We'll be very lucky if he gets through to November without being a major screwup.
steve hüssein® simels
WE'RE DONE FOR! WE'RE DONE FOR!!!!!
Very few people expected any Democrat to carry Alabama.
Funny how the article quotes chuckie schumer, the man who personally brought us the monster that is mukasey. I'm suspicious of anything coming out of chuckie's mouth.
I live in DE, and I hope o'bama spends those THREE electoral votes wisely. But the good side of this is that if biden is VP, then maybe his moronic son will be appointed replacement Senator and will no longer be available to screw up the AG's office.
he wasn't the only one. but for some reason others that voted for it would have been acceptable.
Which bankruptcy bill are you talking about?
2001, yeah, pretty much every single Dem senator on the list voted for it.
2005, there's Bayh, who I didn't see much enthusiasm for, and Biden.
One thing I don't know is Biden's record on reproductive rights. I need to look that up.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere
His record is good. He was also either a sponsor or big supporter of the Violence Against Women Act, I'm pretty sure a sponsor. From that perspective, Biden has been good, no question.
"WE'RE DONE FOR! WE'RE DONE FOR!!!!!"
THE RIOTS AT THE DEM CONVENTION WILL MAKE '68 LOOK LIKE A TEA PARTY!!!!!
Biden's son the AG is headed for Iraq.
The ones in this particular corner of Alabama are still inconsolable
Nine electoral votes the Democrats never had anyway.
TJ, I'll take that. At least we won't have a president trying to keep us 'safe' from our own capabilities as moral agents.
These people don't know Joe Biden from the man in the moon, and he's not going to carry any weight with them. He's not going to get them over not wanting to vote for a black man.
theodoric of athens
I gotta wonder, when it comes time to pull the lever or mark the box, just how many people Joe Biden will bring to the voting booth who otherwise would have voted for McCain, or not voted at all.
Obama-Biden? A candidate with an astonishingly thin professional background—Community organizer? Desultory lecturer in law school?
ariel52
So you're probably one of those intellectually lazy idiots who has been spreading the 50 Lies about Obama crap, all of which have been thoroughly debunked at Snopes.
Shut up, asshole. You don't convince anyone here ... we're all smarter than you.
Thanks, rmj. I have some oatmeal chocolate chip cookie dough that I made for the teenager night before last in the fridge, as a matter of fact. Probably a good time to preheat the oven.
simels has been whining constantly since early in the primary season. He's never satisfied.
plantsman | 08.23.08 - 11:17 am | #
Actually, I've been whining about the Democrats since BEFORE the primary.
And if you don't think the party as it is currently constituted is gutless, clueless and useless, then you really haven't been paying attention for the last eight years.
Sorry -- nothing personal, obviously, but the fact of the matter is we're in deep shit even if Obama wins big, which I still think he will BTW.
.Very few people expected any Democrat to carry Alabama.
plantsman
Nope, but a white Southerner would certainly have helped in Virginia and NC.
They're the folks who won't admit that they're somewhat racist ("Some of my best friends are black"), and yes, you do need them.
Brooklyn Girl, shady dame | 08.23.08 - 11:16 am | #
no, i really don't. my tent isn't that big. if this representative democracy is really made up of a mojority who won't vote for no black man nohow, then i'd rather be kicking and screaming from the losing minority side than join them.
and they will NOT be appeased and vote for obama just because he picked a white-haired white man to be his sidekick. they won't. i know these people. i don't understand them, but i know them.
i need them about as much as dysentery.
then maybe his moronic son will be appointed replacement Senator and will no longer be available to screw up the AG's office.
larry, dfh
That's a good thing?
Nothing taken personally, nor thrown personally.
Obama MUST be elected. You gotta start somewhere.
"mom not Marx"
If you put the pentathol on Roberta McCain, inside of ten minutes she'd give you two dozen reasons why her son should never be allowed within 500 yards of the White House.
Biden is mixed on abortion.
Supports Roe V Wade, thinks life begins at conception. Voted against late term abortion. Voted to end the ban on abortions at military clinics. Is for stem cell research. Votes for contraception funding. He is opposed to public funds for abortion. He voted against the bill banning under 18 girls from traveling across state lines to get an abortion.
He believes in a constitutional right to privacy.
Basically, a moderate catholic east coast democrat position.
Gets a 36% from NARAL, gets a 0% from the right to lifers.
Have all the concern trolls and PUMAS (=racists) checked in yet to tell us that the Obama/Biden ticket is the end of the world?
Yanno guys, we were never gonna get a real liberal. On women's issues, Biden's as good as it gets.
According to Jonathan Alter, Chris Dodd was high on Obama's list until it came out that he got a loan through Countrywide's VIP program ... too bad.
Dirk, I'm not excited, not horrified either. I gave up on a transformational race about a year ago. Like plantsman says, it is what it is. It could have been worse.
Maybe we'll be able to move that window a fraction to the left. It's probably the best we can hope for.
THE RIOTS AT THE DEM CONVENTION WILL MAKE '68 LOOK LIKE A TEA PARTY!!!!!
[puts on tiara]
A picture of Karl Marx as a young man.
http://www.malaspina.com/jpg/marx.jpg
And the familiar one when he was old.
http://splinteredsunrise.files.w...5/
karl_marx.jpg
Another one.
http://www.freewebs.com/socialis...h/bralds_marx-
s (2).jpg
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
has just named as his running mate a man whose principal professional achievement is to have perfected his skills as a gasbag.
Well, five minutes later, our candidate will be able to REMEMBER who he chose.
Just saying....
There isn't enough coffee, tea, or alcohol. But you better hurry up and accept it, because we're all supposed to "close ranks" and get "excited". Senator Bankruptcy Bill. No matter how many awesome things Joe Biden may have done in his career or his personal life, that bill is an absolute horror. Chris Dodd had it right when he described it as one of the worst laws EVER passed by Congress.
this whole thing makes me tired.
TJ, anti coathanger
I agree with that entire post. I know people personally who have been and continue to be screwed by the "new" bankruptcy bill. I notice that none of those draconian rules appear to apply to corporations, or even to rich people (can I say "rich motherfuckers" here?). It's unbelievable. It's also one of the major contributing factors to the ongoing predatory mortgage fiasco. Can't dump the credit card bills (why DO they call it unsecured credit, now?), but I can dump the mortgage. Makes perfect sense.
Speaking of Chris Dodd, why not him for the VP slot? Or Finegold?
Biden? Seriously?
People don't vote for Vice Presidents. He will be extremely useful for attacking McSame. He will be a great asset for influencing the Senate/Legislative Branch. He has experience in Foreign Affairs that will be helpful. He knows Washington and anyone who thinks change can occur without manipulating the existing machinery of government is naive.
Biden authored the violence against women act that finally passed in 1994.
There are worse democrats on women's issues.
and they will NOT be appeased and vote for obama just because he picked a white-haired white man to be his sidekick. they won't. i know these people. i don't understand them, but i know them.
For those people, Obama could have picked Thomas Jefferson as his running mate and they still wouldn't vote for him.
Yeah, Biden is a hero obviously and Obama ran on her voting for the war. What a fucking hypocrit world. At least she had the conscience and sense to write her reservations and opinions in a document and speech I believe-to the senate. So, did Biden do the same? Where is the copy of his reservations and speech?
It is all about fucking women, anyway you can.
i have a new drinking game -- a shot every time joe scarborough says 'elitist' while describing democrats.
nona | 08.23.08 - 11:17 am | #
----- *hic* -----
Obama has guaranteed a 50% turnout, with his pick for VP. What kind of enthusiasm is Biden going to generate, aamong disaffected voters? None.
Methinks he needs better than 50% to win.
I gotta wonder, when it comes time to pull the lever or mark the box, just how many people Joe Biden will bring to the voting booth who otherwise would have voted for McCain, or not voted at all.
That's my point: none. And it's not really got anything to do with Alabama. There are plenty of those people in Ohio and Florida for whom Joe Biden is a complete nonentity. I'm betting that even a lot of people who watched the primaries have trouble distinguishing between Biden and Dodd.
Yanno guys, we were never gonna get a real liberal. On women's issues, Biden's as good as it gets.
qlª - Obama/Biden
This is true. As I said earlier, it's more than a little sad that I'm relieved that the Democratic vice presidential nominee is pro-choice (that should be a given), but such is the political reality we live in.
According to Jonathan Alter, Chris Dodd was high on Obama's list until it came out that he got a loan through Countrywide's VIP program ... too bad.
Brooklyn Girl, shady dame
That is a real shame.
"According to Jonathan Alter, Chris Dodd was high on Obama's list until it came out that he got a loan through Countrywide's VIP program ..."
shit.
toobad, Senator Biden has a website where you can read what he thinks of his AUMF vote and the Iraq Occupation now.
The ones in this particular corner of Alabama are still inconsolable about Hillary, and still having a really hard time getting over it. Our county chair can hardly bring herself even to pronounce Obama's name.
These people don't know Joe Biden from the man in the moon, and he's not going to carry any weight with them. He's not going to get them over not wanting to vote for a black man.
theodoric of athens | 08.23.08 - 11:17 am | #
Then they're childish morons. They obviously don't know anything about Hillary, either.
Methinks he needs better than 50% to win.
Adam Hominem
Only if Diebold is involved in the counting.
Uh, Biden has only a 36% rating from NARAL.
Here is a choice quote from Biden (who hearts Clarence Thomas):
Q: Are you still opposed to public funding for abortion?
A: I still am opposed to public funding for abortion. It goes to the question of whether or not you're going to impose a view to support something that is not a guaranteed right but an affirmative action to promote.
----- *hic* -----
Brooklyn Girl, shady dame
didn't take long, did it. gawd, he's an asshole.
It could have been worse
Let us hope that Obama runs a transformational term(s) in office leaving Biden to play golf.
The good news with Biden is the corporate overlords might be satisfied now and possibly let Obama win. I think McCain scares them worse.
Have all the concern trolls and PUMAS (=racists) checked in yet to tell us that the Obama/Biden ticket is the end of the world?
I think the end of the world was signified by the text message arriving so late. That has completely destroyed the campaign, the Democratic party, and the future of our species. Clearly it was the work of Clintonite saboteurs.
SHUT UP. BE HAPPY.
Once again, liberals seizing defeat from the jaws of victory.
What an absolute disaster on so many levels.
The Agent of Change's first major "Presidential" decision is to pick an establishment pol.
Biden, the "Foreign Policy Expert" makes the biggest mistake of his career by voting for the Iraq War, along with one Hillary Clinton, who we all know was virtually stoned by Obama for it for an entire year.
Here it is:
Question: On the Joint Resolution (H.J.Res. 114 )
Vote Number: 237 Vote Date: October 11, 2002, 12:50 AM
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
http://www.senate.gov/legislativ...00237&
session=2
Maybe we'll be able to move that window a fraction to the left. It's probably the best we can hope for.
Libby, waking up | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 11:23 am |
Yes. A fraction. At best.
So - in order to get a handful of Pennsylvanians to vote for Obama, we get a corporate apparatchik as vice president.
This kind of forward thinking is what encourages me to believe that habeas corpus may actually make a comeback, eventually, when the time is right. Maybe after we have aspired long enough to the removal of occupation troops in Iraq.
Biden's website:
http://biden.senate.gov/
Yeah, Biden is a hero obviously and Obama ran on her voting for the war.
How much of the brown acid did you drop?
SHUT UP. BE HAPPY.
The Happiness Patrol
Fuck you.
Obama could've carried Kentucky if'n he'd named The Father, The Son, & the Holy Ghost as the rotating VP choice.
I would have liked Bayh more but I'm pretty happy with Biden, Obama needs to distance himself from the radical nutroots as much as possible.
Elias, why don't you run on over to No Quarter where you belong. Nobody here likes you.
Only if Diebold is involved in the counting.
cosmic tumbler
Oh, they will be.
But my point is that he needs more than 50% of the voting eligible people to vote. He needs a big turnout. Typically around 50% and we get Republicans. Because there's a certain percentage of wingnuts and lunatic old people who always vote.
It appears that Biden does support access to birth control methods.
Ralphie, ask me if I give a shit...
Enough Billy Boy, to be in reality. You?
Sensible Democrat is being very concerned, and sensible.
If Democrats want racists from the south to vote for them, they have to become racists. Fuck those guys.
Libby, i basically agree with you. no harm, no foul, but no goal. i believe obama is a shoe-in, still think he'll win by a landslide mostly because the gop does not WANT to win this time around.
although i'm beginning to think the dems don't either.
biden has proven for 20 years that he cannot attract votes nationally. that, and the bankruptcy bill, and is initial pro-war stance, and his generally hawkish stance aside from iraq, all turn me off. or at least, make me incredibly drowsey.
vps (cheney not withstanding) aren't that important in a race anyway. the most important function they serve is the buzz created just before and just after they are announced.
biden's buzz sounds like this:
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz.
Biden must have promised to keep his yap shut when not on script. Which makes him less interesting. Or maybe Obama brought him on to be the attack dog he himself refuses to be.
I say there's gonna be an ego-clash, regardless of what Obama wants from him.
Bayh would have been the best non-Hillary choice because he would have brought Indiana.
And at least Biden opposes the global gag rule.
Ralphie, ask me if I give a shit...
Elias
Enough to respond, asshole.
According to Jonathan Alter, Chris Dodd was high on Obama's list until it came out that he got a loan through Countrywide's VIP program ... too bad.
Brooklyn Girl, shady dame
That's unfortunate for Dodd and us, but it does instill a certain confidence that they do a good job vetting people.
Just now got my text message. Wow, it's Biden.
didn't take long, did it. gawd, he's an asshole.
nona | 08.23.08 - 11:27 am | #
He also wouldn't shut up about Hillary putting a 2012 fundrasing note at the bottom of her Biden endorsement, as if she's already preparing for another presidential run.
I guess Scarborough is too stupid to realize that she's running for the Senate again in 2012.
I sent MSNBC an email.
Biden is a terrible choice. And reflects poorly on Obama judgment, which shows that he put aside principle for expedience.
I knew when Clinton selected Gore in 1992 that they would win the election.
With Obama's choice of Biden, I am not even close to being hopeful.
Very few people expected any Democrat to carry Alabama.
plantsman
No doubt true, but the larger point, I think is to not just write those people off. Someone needs to counter the bullshit that is hosed out of Fox Noose every single day. Someone needs to counter the ongoing economic and environmental tragedy that is Alabama (and to a slightly lesser extent, Mississippi) today. These loons people are Americans, too.
Once upon a time, a lot of progressive people lived in Alabama. I'm not sure that all of them have run away. In my personal experience, they can be reasoned with (some can be, anyway), but you have be willing to engage.
Elias feels unhappy
It feels so sad
It lost the best friend
That it ever had
Elias loved a woman
It loved her so
But it's too late now
She said to blow.
It's going through changes
It's going through changes
Obama's first "presidential" decision is to pick a running mate from...
...DELAWARE?!
As goes Delaware, so goes the nation.
JFC, people!
Joe Biden is articulate and clean. He's entertaining, too. I don't find him boring, as I would have any of the also rans. Except Hillary, whom I did not support. She might not have been boring, but I wasn't going to be happy with the Whitewater-redux and the Where's Bill crap. So we're spared all that. Sibelius would have been nice, but pretty much unknown, and no foreign policy.
I'm okay with it. I think Obama's decision to go with Joe was very pragmatic, not out-of-the-blue visionary.
Toby, there's no evidence any VP pick has "brought" a State since LBJ in 1960 -- but continue your shit-for-brains blatherings.
And at least Biden opposes the global gag rule.
Sallyh
Sad that's it come to this.
Biden will put America's interest first, not France's.
vps (cheney not withstanding) aren't that important in a race anyway.
dirk gently,socioapathetic
They can hurt the campaign, for instance, when Lieberman in 2000 threw the debate.
They are also the preferred candidate for the party in 8 years.
It's sock puppet time
And Hillary was such a treasure? Watching her wander about the countryside like Joanna the Mad dragging the corpse of her failed campaign and refusing to conceed was painful to watch. And right now polls show that nationally 49 percent won't vote for her for president.
PA is full of rascists that are trying not to be rascist. Biden may help, I don't know. I will have a better feel after tonight and tomorrow night.
PA cannot afford to write off these voters. I have to say I drink more often since I been working with the campaign. (some of the stuff I hear is nauseating)but the alternative is to turn my back and say we don't want you.
It is surprising that older conservative Dems (make me throw up in my mouth to use that phrase)are willing to move on this issue at all.
Enough Billy Boy, to be in reality.
Eep Ahp Ork Ah Ah
Sad that's it come to this.
Unbelievably so. It's too much like being grateful that a Democrat supports unions....
Mr Fuschia?
Can you please tell the class the last time an all US Senator ticket has won the White House?
Sad that's it come to this.
qlª - Obama/Biden
It's ALWAYS been like this. The lesser of two evils is the choice I've made in 9 presidential elections.
ql, I imagined in 1973, as a naive young college student, that by now, choice in reproduction would be assumed.
I was so terribly, terribly wrong.
Obama has guaranteed a 50% turnout, with his pick for VP.
Tosh. Obama has the turnout thing handled on his own. It's white wobblers he needs to worry about.
Why don't you tell us, E-lie-us?
I still think you dirty fucking hippies are signing on to the biggest megalomaniacal con job since Elmer Gantry, but whatevah.
CT = Repub Gov. hence Dodd was a no go.
BTW, some anagrams for Obama Biden:
Amoeba Bind, Babied Moan, Babe Domain, Nabob Amide, Nabob Media, A Bemoan Bid, A Dean Bimbo, Adman Be Obi, Babied Am No, Babe Maid On, Babe Maid No, Babe Mad Ion, Nabob Aid Me, Abode Am Bin, Boa Name Bid, Aid Name Bob, Aid Amen Bob, A Bad Bi Omen
(there are probably a bunch of other interesting ones)
Eep Ahp Ork Ah Ah
Aw, he knows the secret code!!
Yes. A fraction. At best.
steve hüssein® simels
simels, you and i are on the same page i think.
here's the biggest problem w/ biden: he won't generate excitement.
obama is pretty surely the next pres. but so what? we dodge a bullet, that's all.
otoh, we have an opportunity at the local and congressional races of moving everything a little bit left. throw out repubs, defeat a few dlc'ers w/ progressives, increase the senate majority to a REAL majority, maybe even filibuster-proof. and a dem president will know he isn't going eight years by vetoing dem-sponsored social legislation.
but if progressives want to accomplish this, they need to make their voices heard even in races they can't win
time and opportunity are slipping by. don't worry about mccain. no one wants him anyway. they just want it to look close so our voices are drowned out.
Hold your nose and pull the Obama/Biden vote lever, but don't be afraid to call bullshit when you smell it. That is what makes us different than the wingnuts.
Can you please tell the class the last time an all US Senator ticket has won the White House?
[pssst]
both candidates for president are senators
At least we're not with the Geriatric Gigolo™.
Elmer Gantry, in the Lewis novel, was a republican.
Do your own homework, dirt boy...
He also wouldn't shut up about
earlier this a.m. he was describing the elitist education that obama received at the private school in hawaii, and then princeton and harvard. mika was meekly trying to insert that he was the son of a single mother and the family occasionally had to rely on food stamps; she might also have included that his attendance at those schools was on scholarship and that he worked part time while in school. but it wouldn't have mattered anyway, because scarborough rudely talked over her to continue his lying smear.
Unbelievably so. It's too much like being grateful that a Democrat supports unions....
GWPDA yclept Damaged Historian
Indeed.
Ain't my homework, troll-boy.
both candidates for president are senators
Clearly then, McKinney will win...
I still think you dirty fucking hippies are signing on to the biggest megalomaniacal con job since Elmer Gantry, but whatevah.
Reegun.
Bush 43.
The jokes write themselves.
billy bitch...
That wasn't the question.
When did an _ALL US SENATOR TICKET_ win the WH, dumbass.
If McCane picks a Senator, it's a mute point, mullet pubes...
Planstman:
Toby, there's no evidence any VP pick has "brought" a State since LBJ in 1960 -- but continue your shit-for-brains blatherings.
Al Gore would have been President in 2001 if he had only carried his own state.
because scarborough rudely talked over her to continue his lying smear.
nona
Woulda been a good time to ask Joe about murdering his intern. Let's see him talk over THAT.
I don't care if Biden wasn't a successful presidential candidate. He has always struck me as more of a sychophant, a guy who chickens out when it comes to leading, maybe a perfect veep pick, IOW. He's not supposed to overshadow Obama, but to do the less popular/fun bits of the campaign, and Joe will gladly do that.
He's always gonna be the bridesmaid, never the bride, and I think that suits him well.
I'm surprised at the 36% rating from NARAL.
No public funding for abortion; it imposes a view. (Apr 2007)
Supports partial-birth abortion ban, but not undoing Roe. (Apr 2007)
Accepts Catholic church view that life begins at conception. (Apr 2007)
Nominees should agree on constitutional right to privacy. (Apr 2007
Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 200
Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 200
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Voted NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
Voted NO on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on banning human cloning. (Feb 199
Rated 36% by NARAL, indicating a mixed voting record on abortion. (Dec 2003)
Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)
McMittwit will have a hell of a time trying to bite a dog that bites back. Biden brings that.
If Democrats want racists from the south to vote for them, they have to become racists. Fuck those guys.
There are large portions of Ohio, and probably Pennsylvania as well, that are sociologically indistinguishable from the South.
Florida, well, it IS the South. The panhandle is, anyway.
Plantsman
Geriatric gigolo. I'm using that, is it yours?
Elmer Gantry, in the Lewis novel, was a republican.
In 1927, so were most Negroes.
Yes, Toby; Al Gore DID NOT "bring Tennesseee", my point precisely.
here's the biggest problem w/ biden: he won't generate excitement.
but obama generates all the excitement you need. biden brings years of senate foreign relations experience to bolster obama.
They can hurt the campaign, for instance, when Lieberman in 2000 threw the debate.
bad example. gore won.
Coined it today.
It shouldn't be so hard to decide which side to be on and Biden has trouble there. So does Obama dammit!
ql, I imagined in 1973, as a naive young college student, that by now, choice in reproduction would be assumed.
I imagined a lot of idealistic stuff in those days too. It horrifies me to see that not only did they not come true but that we seem to be regressing politically to where we were before we made all the gains we fought for back then.
I mean, who would have thought that 40 years later, the government would be trying to allow health care practitioners to refuse to prescribe freaking contraceptives? It boggles the mind.
Tosh. Obama has the turnout thing handled on his own.
blerb
I don't think so. I think he just shot that thing right in the ass. But we'll see.
Time to go deal with a diabetic border collie.
Presidential candidate Sen. Joseph Biden (D-Del.) stood out yesterday [4/17/07] as the only Democratic candidate to remain quiet on the Supreme Court’s ruling that the 2003 congressional ban on some late-term abortions is constitutional.
* * *
Biden is the only Democratic presidential candidate who was in the Senate in 2003 to vote in favor of the bill banning so-called partial-birth abortions, legislation that has been vilified by groups that support abortion rights as an assault on the case of Roe v. Wade.
Exactly. We don't need racists to win.
McCain does and that still isn't enough to save him.
Alf Landon couldn't carry his own state of Kansas in 1936.
bad example. gore won.
dirk gently,socioapathetic
Lieberman hurt the campaign. That's all I said.
So the requirement for voting for someone is electability, not principle, Mr Fuschia?
I don't believe Obama will win, therefore I'll follow your logic and vote for McKinney.
Maybe McKinney won't win either, but I'll have voted principle over pragmatism.
And with an attitude like yours, a third party will never win, will they "activist" hypocrite?
Pragmatism sucks.
If Democrats want racists from the south to vote for them, they have to become racists. Fuck those guys.
bill
If you want those votes right now, yes. If you are willing to engage constructively, those votes will be available in a future election cycle.
The American Deep South doesn't have to be a moral wasteland.
Obama generates no excitement at this end unfortunately--just--nothing.
Fine, assholes; Vote for McCain.
Florida, well, it IS the South. The panhandle is, anyway.
theodoric of athens
it's pretty much all the south except for Miami, Palm Beach, Sarasota, etc. i.e. the wealthy coastal hot spots. the whole central part of the state is indistinguishable from georgia.
(born and raised in FL)
Time to go deal with a diabetic border collie.
Troutski
Hey, I missed this news. What happened? My bc hasn't been well lately either.
Rated 36% by NARAL, indicating a mixed voting record on abortion. (Dec 2003)
Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)
qlª - Obama/Biden | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 11:38 am | #
nrlc only has two ratings: 100% and zero.
ql, CA needs the federal matching funds desperately--we have a huge uninsured population--but we rejected matching funds on sex ed and on environmental issues as well.
What we really need to do in CA is modify Prop 13, but that's a whole other conversation.
I don't believe Obama will win, therefore I'll follow your logic and vote for McKinney.
Maybe McKinney won't win either, but I'll have voted principle over pragmatism.
Elias
Eldridge Cleaver. Gave us Nixon.
Do your own homework, dirt boy...
Elias | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 11:37 am | #
Well, now that's perfect. You ask someone else to answer your question because you're too lazy to look it up yourself, and then when he won't, you accuse him of not doing his homework.
Plantsman:
Yes, Toby; Al Gore DID NOT "bring Tennesseee", my point precisely.
I know. I just like pointing that out to Democrats. It rankles.
Poor baby collie, Troutski. Sorry for that.
I mean, who would have thought that 40 years later, the government would be trying to allow health care practitioners to refuse to prescribe freaking contraceptives? It boggles the mind.
Libby, waking up
I was listening to that on pacifica last night coming home from a late meeting and just about ran off the road.
nrlc only has two ratings: 100% and zero.
Good point. I was thinking the same thing.
The last 8 years is what really rankles.
Fine, assholes; Vote for McCain.
plantsman
plantsman, speaking only for myself, I'm not an asshole, and I'm definitely not voting for McCain.
Women's reproductive health and rights will do absolutely fine in an Obama/Biden presidency. It's not an issue.
The right has successfully made the word liberal the same as the word "nigger".
Proposition 13 by itself almost has resulted in almost the total destruction of California as a civilizatin.
Eldridge Cleaver. Gave us Nixon.
Adam Hominem
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A nation of ignorant, jingoistic, fearful, warmongers gave us Nixon.
Elias is like an addiction. We deserve Elias and his various aliases, because we are weak. If we want to be free of him, we will have to find the inner strength and discipline to shun him consistently. I say this not as somebody asserting some kind of moral superiority, but as a sinner myself, seeking redemption and wishing to make public my resolve. So in that light, I will make my plea -- let's do away with it now, for good, together.
but obama generates all the excitement you need. biden brings years of senate foreign relations experience to bolster obama.
nona | 08.23.08 - 11:39 am | #
like 6 years of support for the iraq misadventure? now, that's experience! exactly what obama was running against.
eh, like i said, i don't think it matters. except of course that biden won't stand a chance eight years from now. but the evil overlords already have obama slated for a four year run as scapegoat in chief.
reaching around - sorry , i mean across - the aisle indeed.
If you want those votes right now, yes. If you are willing to engage constructively, those votes will be available in a future election cycle.
Best cure in my mind would be education. How about a President who is confident, smart, effective and doesn't make life worse for a change. Maybe those barriers will begin to crumble. Oh yeah, that President would be even more affective in that cause if he/she happened to be black.
I know. I just like pointing that out to Democrats. It rankles.
Gore ran a pitiful campaign and he still won the popular vote.
Well Biden must be a great pick cause the trolls are all here with the vapors.
The vapors, I tells ya!!
You radical leftist morons need to shut up and just vote for Obama, the adults are in charge of the Democratic party again!
The guest genius on MSNBC just said that Biden "calls a spade a spade."
And the media thinks that Biden says stupid shit?
Billy boy was thinking??
I say this not as somebody asserting some kind of moral superiority, but as a sinner myself, seeking redemption and wishing to make public my resolve. So in that light, I will make my plea -- let's do away with it now, for good, together.
blerb
Amen.
I don't know how to ask you women that were strongly working for abortion rights in the 70s to come out and help. I'm not sure what will constitute concern trolling, electioneering or getting flamed, but if any of you have the time or place to mentor college age women or put yourself into a place of influence with them, I believe it would go far in changing this generation of women. It is easy to be frustrated, but look at the invaluable resource you are for the feminist movement.
Hello? This is a liberal echo chamber. Of course y'all believe Americans are liberal. You probably used to think they were communistic, too. Believe me, I can tell you, by far most Americans are conservative. That's why even the democrats push for lower taxes - a conservative value.
Oh well, enjoy your echos, I guess.
So in that light, I will make my plea -- let's do away with it now, for good, together.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can't do away with an idea, with your conscience...
Ban me all you want, you know I speak the truth.
So far the reaction around the liberal blogosphere to Biden seems to be a resounding "meh."
The right has successfully made the word liberal the same as the word "nigger".
Hell no. They call people they don't like liberals all the time.
The last 8 years is what really rankles.
Was hell on my liver till the last few months, I'm telling you.
Women's reproductive health and rights will do absolutely fine in an Obama/Biden presidency. It's not an issue.
Tralfaz | 08.23.08 - 11:44 am | #
probably true, but i'll be sleeping w/ one eye open. just in case.
Maybe McKinney won't win either
You sure are smart. Did it hurt when you wiped your ass with a porcupine?
eh, like i said, i don't think it matters. except of course that biden won't stand a chance eight years from now. but the evil overlords already have obama slated for a four year run as scapegoat in chief.
dirk gently,socioapathetic
History can repeat. Jimmy Carter. Then Reagan.
What scares me is the realism of your scenario. Obama clearly just ain't as smart as we were hoping he was.
Generational somnolence accounts for the backsliding on abortion and any number of other rights. We were around for the backalley abortions our girlfriends had to undergo, our boyfriends had to worry about low lottery numbers in the draft, we remember an overtly segregated America.
Listen up, you youngsters, oh, and stay the fuck off my lawn.
The guest genius on MSNBC just said that Biden "calls a spade a spade."
And the media thinks that Biden says stupid shit?
Brooklyn Girl, shady dame
TCB, your math is hogwash. Republicans and Conservatives are at their lowest ebb in decades.
You caused this mess, it's a cinch you can't fix it.
It was nice to see that Obama didn't pick a Southerner.
That's why even the democrats push for lower taxes - a conservative value.
and john mccain thinks taxes, like interest rates, should be zero.
what a simplistic moron.
Exactly. We don't need racists to win.
You say that as if these people were all running around with RACIST stamped in red ink on their foreheads.
I'm here to tell you that there are a lot of people who would tell you that they're not at all racist and yet will find convenient excuses to vote for McCain unless you make a strong case to them.
They're in Ohio; they're in Pennsylvania; they're in Washington State; they're in Virginia; they're in Minnesota. You DO need them in order to win, and writing them off as "racists" is a losing strategy.
Sensible Democrat | 08.23.08 - 11:45 am |
Put a sock in it, Luby.
btw, when i said "simplistic moron" i meant tcb, not mccain. although i guess it could apply to either.
It is easy to be frustrated, but look at the invaluable resource you are for the feminist movement.
camelot
Well, I was told by a regular here that the old feminists concentrated on the wrong issues and that we aren't really all that relevant anymore. She was tired of hearing about the old fights. Time to move on!! Sorry camelot, you're on your own. We did our part.
It was nice to see that Obama didn't pick a Southerner.
Fuck you.
Camelot, what we do in my class is do an analysis and examination of states that have better access to contraception and abortion vs. states that don't. We also look at the impact of 'abstinence-only' education.
All I can do is show them the numbers. And from campus polling, on our campus, 91% of students who responded are prochoice.
We also look at other fun stuff, like what the war has done to the federal budget, how Prop 13 has caused the perpetual budget crisis in CA, etc.
Every number tells a story, don't it.
I believe it would go far in changing this generation of women. It is easy to be frustrated, but look at the invaluable resource you are for the feminist movement.
camelot | 08.23.08 - 11:46 am | #
Change them in what way? Realizing that abortion is not wrong and it's a personal decision (unlike the Christianist, pro-life message they have been hit over the head with in recent years) or realizing that their abortion rights are in jeopardy?
So far the reaction around the liberal blogosphere to Biden seems to be a resounding "meh."
wÒÓ
MMMMMMEHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
But I guess he needed a little "meh" in his campaign, so I'm warming to the idea. Slowly.
I, of course include feminist males in my plea for mentorship. Equally as important.
simel regrets and all that shit.
Listen up, you youngsters, oh, and stay the fuck off my lawn.
noblejoanie |
Ditto in triplicate!!! Don't fuck with me at all.
In the last half hour, my spouse has counted at least four GOP ads run on JoeScarbo, not as ads, but as talking points. Great.
Osama Bin Laden
YOUR LIBERAL MEDIA
via Yahoo Headlines:
* Analysis: Biden pick shows lack of confidence (AP)
* Biden speaks - and speaks - his own mind (AP)
* Analysis: Is Obama ready for world's toughest job? (AP)
* A statesman known for slips of his tongue (Politico)
*Is McCain's history with Indians a mixed blessing? (AP)
Time to move on!! Sorry camelot, you're on your own. We did our part.
qlª - Obama/Biden
Now THAT is not a constructive attitude. In fact, I'd go so far as to call it a Republican attitude.
I've got mine, so now you get yours, eh?
Well, I was told by a regular here that the old feminists concentrated on the wrong issues and that we aren't really all that relevant anymore.
Are you serious? For fuck's sake.
I was born in '71, and I certainly don't feel that way. I'm able to do what I do because of the sacrifices made by women of your generation.
yet will find convenient excuses to vote for McCain unless you make a strong case to them.
and i'm telling you that chosing biden is not a strong case. it's a wash. it will make no difference to them.
now, MCCAIN's choice might make a difference to them. but the only way obama can would be to step down. if they are going to vote against obama and the platform they support simply because he is black (and yes, i've heard them say that in so many words), the only thing to do is make them even MORE afraid of mccain. nothing else will sway them. and if they aren't already more afraid of mccain then ... well, i just don't know.
A new women's and liberal party may actually be the thing we need to balance out the bullshit. It may not win an election but it certainly would be something to respect.
McCain's gonna pick Condosleeza for VP. I can feel it.
Adam, I was just repeating what was said to me.
Saddam Hussein Osama Bin Laden
Adam, I was just repeating what was said to me.
qlª - Obama/Biden
My apologies! I knew you were better than that!
YOUR LIBERAL MEDIA
via Yahoo Headlines:
Culture of TrÜth
But I thought one advantage of Biden is that the Villagers luuuuuv him.
Huh. Who woulda figured that wouldn't pan out the way people thought.
Last election cycle the anti-choicebots showed up at a speech by the Democratic candidate to leaflet. It was fun watching people crumple up the leaflets and throw them on the ground. And it was the majority doing that.
Who took over the AP's DeeCee bureau?
A former Moonie Times editor or Rushbo joke writer?
McCain's gonna pick Condosleeza for VP. I can feel it.
Adam Hominem | 08.23.08 - 11:52 am | #
Well, considering that this Russia/Georgia mess happened on her watch, I certainly hope so.
But hey! They can compare Ferragamos!
See? Here comes Joe!
No bullshit jet ride last night!
.
Barack Hussein Obama Joe Biden
I'm here to tell you that there are a lot of people who would tell you that they're not at all racist and yet will find convenient excuses to vote for McCain unless you make a strong case to them.
...
theodoric of athens
The case is being made. If they ignore it, screw them. And if the racists end up winning, this country is deservedly overwith. I personally will no longer give a shit.
Quite a crowd of locals in front of Biden's house.
McCain's gonna pick Condosleeza for VP. I can feel it.
Adam Hominem | 08.23.08 - 11:52 am | #
no, because he'd lose a huge contingent of "i'm not votin' for no black nohow."
he can't afford that.
Anyone else notice Joe Scarborough sounds like Joe Biden? Voice quality, not content, of course.
I don't think ql's being a Republican at all. I was born in 1955, and was 17 when Roe was made law. Like her, though, I still can't believe this is not an accepted medical practice and that we're still having ridiculous laws proposed to control women's bodies and lives.
It does make one tired.
I'm lucky in that I have a ready made platform. I don't have to tell my students my political views. Statistics, done properly, tell their own story, and they have a habit of reinforcing reality.
Barack Hussein Obama Joe Biden
Saddam Hussein Osama Bin Laden
Hate and fear give you meaning, don't they?
If you couldn't hate and fear, you'd just dry up and blow away. There'd be nothing left.
So far I've heard that McCain is gonna pick:
Romney
Huckabee
Sarah Palin
Condi
any other contenders?
"...after years of centrist politics..."
Did I sleep during that phase?
It was fun watching people crumple up the leaflets and throw them on the ground
litterbugs!
It's not outright racists who need to be brought into the fold, but rather somewhat narrow-minded, marginally xenophobic people who are with the Democrats on most issues but are still subconsciously affected by that Radical Muslim/Black Panther/Scary Brown People fear. In aw way, Biden is the closest thing image-wise to McCain they could have put on the ticket -- an old white guy with high name recognition who does not offend anybody's provinicial prejuduces. In that sense, it was a very good move, even if an important swing-state provenance might have been better.
"...after years of centrist politics..."
Did I sleep during that phase?
Newton Minnow | 08.23.08 - 11:56 am | #
newt was a centrist. compared to the bush regime.
McCain's gonna pick Condosleeza for VP. I can feel it.
Adam Hominem | 08.23.08 - 11:52 am | #
Well, considering that this Russia/Georgia mess happened on her watch, I certainly hope so.
well, in all fairness, she was -- and continued -- on her vacation during those days.
no, because he'd lose a huge contingent of "i'm not votin' for no black nohow."
he can't afford that.
The republics won't let that happen. McCain't won't be doing the choosing.
Scarborough is being less disgusting than usual.
Richard Holbrooke, who accompanied Biden to Georgia, is talking about the trip on MSNBC right now.
Hussein's choice for VP is important, Biden will have to take over often when Barry go on meth benders with Larry Sinclair.
and i'm telling you that chosing biden is not a strong case. it's a wash. it will make no difference to them.
Agreed.
if they are going to vote against obama and the platform they support simply because he is black (and yes, i've heard them say that in so many words)
Some do. Many don't. Some are changing, even as I speak. I have spoken to at least one relative, a transplant from Michigan, who started the primary season telling me that she was afraid of what would happen if the n****rs got into power, but lately made it pretty clear to me that she was going to vote for Obama. I have no way of knowing what she actually does in the voting booth, of course, but things are changing. People are changing, and the more we work with them, the faster they will change.
no, because he'd lose a huge contingent of "i'm not votin' for no black nohow."
he can't afford that.
dirk gently,socioapathetic
I'm sure that's a calculation they have already done in the McCain camp. With the racists, so many votes. Without them, so many votes.
My feeling is, he will wrap up the suburbs and much of the rural areas with Rice for VP. A lot of racists won't vote, but on the other hand a lot of otherwise Dem or non-voting suburban voters will vote for him.
It's the Pawlenty constituency all the way. They'll vote for a black person. And I believe they are now more important than the racists.
So how could these people not know who Biden is? Just wait until they see him and recognize him from those showz on sunday Tee Vee!
It is easy to be frustrated, but look at the invaluable resource you are for the feminist movement.
camelot | 08.23.08 - 11:46 am | #
My experience with new feminists has been similar to ql. I don't feel particularly welcomed in the movement anymore, but that's true of all movements. It seems over time, as organized groups become more larger and more influential there's an inevitable fracturing, and it splits up into competing factions.
I'll still fight for the cause, but I don't feel like the younger generation particularly wants my advice. I consider myself kind of a lone warrior on the fringes.
McCain/Nosferatu '08
In that sense, it was a very good move, even if an important swing-state provenance might have been better.
blerb
There is a boatload of inherent racism in this race. WI is purplish for that reason as are other states needed in the EC calculation. Biden will help assuage that.
but rather somewhat narrow-minded, marginally xenophobic people who are with the Democrats on most issues but are still subconsciously affected by that Radical Muslim/Black Panther/Scary Brown People fear. In aw way, Biden is the closest thing image-wise to McCain they could have put on the ticket --
none of those people were going to vote FOR mccain. they were only going to vote AGAINST putting a black person in the white house. they all already knew that obama was not going to pick a black running mate.
you are giving them too much credit. if their motivation includes "too bad he's black" they are lost.
Did anybody listen to Rachel's radio show yesterday?
One of these so-called "pumas" call in.
Rachel just kept asking her "do you think choice will be safer under Obama or McBombBomb who has said that his mission is to select SCOTUS members who will overturn Roe V. Wade?"
The woman was babbling incoherently by the end of the call.
You just knew that the woman doesn't want to vote for Obama because of race.
It's fucking sick.
BG
Unfortunately in my area the former, hopefully moving to their abortion rights are in jeopardy.
Sallyh's area must be different, of course! Thank you Sallyh for all that you do, not to mention making math fun.
ql I'm sorry and IMHO that is what makes the movement such a slow slog, the divisiveness. I am sorry you ever had to hear anyone say that. I realize you did your share. You are correct that we have to do our work now, it just helps for young girls to see that there are women out there who are strong and proud in their convictions about feminist issues.
I quickly learned to enlist other women in being vocal when young girls in my classes would look at me as a freak for demanding equality and supporting abortion rights.
I take responsibility. I had no idea.
You are such a fool, blerb!! There is really more to life than the simple racist non racist meme you espouse so you can feel so superior. You are the narrow minded one.
Osama Bin Laden
Obama Joe Biden ,
Well, except for that. I guess they didn't vet the homophonia issue, or else the staffers in charge thought it was a sex thing.
Seriously, when isn't Joe Biden on the Sunday shows?
McCain's gonna pick Condosleeza for VP. I can feel it.
And why shouldn't he? She'll do a GREAT job.
progressive ain't mushy. it supplants the wingers decades long demonization of liberal.
i can live with it...
Biden will put America's interest first, not France's.
Correction. He will put the interests of American Express first.
Joe Biden:
Voted for War on Islam? Check!
Voted for War on Consumers? Check!
Voted for War on Cognitive Liberty? Check!
Will follow the instructions of the CFR? Check!
Let's let him have a shot!
Yeah, people who don't like Obama call him "Barry."
We get that.
If he picks Condi, he gets the suburbs, and the racists have no one but him to vote for.
Condi.
have no way of knowing what she actually does in the voting booth, of course, but things are changing. People are changing, and the more we work with them, the faster they will change.
theodoric of athens | 08.23.08 - 11:58 am | #
agreed. but appealing to them is not the way to work with them. i'm not sure if i mean that exactly the way it sounds, so i'll trust you to interpret it correctly.
The funny thing is, when Biden debates Romney, Romney will come off as the outside the beltway candidate - something that will appeal to independents. I see the Biden pick backfiring on Obama. Prediction - in four weeks McCain will be up by at least 5 points.
I predict that the Villagers' love of Biden will end right about ...... three hours ago.
It was nice to see that Obama didn't pick a Southerner.
Fuck you.
theodoric of athens
It can't be a Southerner every time. Chill out.
I ordered a few of these for the next group ride...
.
Romney will come off as the outside the beltway candidate - something that will appeal to independents.
Romney will come off like the gibbering idiot he is.
You are such a fool, blerb!! There is really more to life than the simple racist non racist meme you espouse so you can feel so superior. You are the narrow minded one.
toobad
Ah. It's mimi. I don't know what took me so long.
gotta go for a while. last thought:
joe BIDEN? really?
Biden works in DC, he has never LIVED there.
The woman was babbling incoherently by the end of the call.
...You just knew that the woman doesn't want to vote for Obama because of race.
...It's fucking sick.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants
Well, she herself may be a lost cause, but at least she's conflicted. Others of the same ilk will be won over. McCain did himself a deep disservice when he went balls-out anti-choice like that in such a prominent forum. In a way, he eliminted the need for Hillary on the ticket, because he waved such a nasty cudgel in the faces of all the disaffected Hillary supporters motivated by feminist issues.
Condi gets the suburbs? Why, because of the Ferragamo outlets?
If choosing Biden is any indication of the quality of Obama's leadership potential, then it may be just as well that his campaign implodes.
What totally sucks is that the alternative is much, much worse.
What a terrible time.
Ah. It's mimi. I don't know what took me so long.
Yep.
Camelot, there's a lot of good research out there, and I try to choose those issues which will, with a little luck, keep my students awake. Which is why I have to tweak my classes every semester.
you are giving them too much credit. if their motivation includes "too bad he's black" they are lost.
dirk gently,socioapathetic | 08.23.08 - 11:59 am | #
Then his choice for VP would have been irrelevant under any circumstances. Even having Hillary on the ticket wouldn't have changed this. It would have made him look weak, which is already a meme the Repubs are floating, even with Biden.
Well, I was told by a regular here that the old feminists concentrated
on the wrong issues and that we aren't really all that relevant
anymore. She was tired of hearing about the old fights. Time to move
on!! Sorry camelot, you're on your own. We did our part.Yep. And I agree with ql, not just of my own age. I'm in the curious position of reaching back a couple of generations as tho they were my own - my grandmother who went to business college, in 1916, and worked her entire life, including as a wife and a mother - my mother who completed college and went to New York for her career and then volunteered for the Red Cross and was in the war til '46, marrying and having children and then returning to school in order to start another career.... my feminist credentials are both earned and hereditary and my patience with the politics of conventional wisdom is pretty much worn thin. And I have done what I can to guide and mentor - and all I got out of it was Joe Biden.....
Romney looks like the Cheez-Whiz Network "perfect President."
Magic underwear, baptising the dead which really rankles non-Mormons, and the recent Mormon child marriage scandals will hamper Mittens.
Correction. He will put the interests of American Express first.
number2son
yup.
bye, dirk gently. it's joe biden. really.
Reality always seems to be somebody called MiMi on this comment section--or a troll.
Fuck you, fascists!!
Frankly we aren't expecting to get many votes from the South.
Biden will shore up the Mid-Atlantic area and possibly the Midwest.
Ah. It's mimi. I don't know what took me so long.
Adam Hominem
Shh! Be vewy vewy quit! We're ignoring trolls! Just think how rewarding the spectacular terminal meltdown will be.
and all I got out of it was Joe Biden.....
GWPDA yclept Damaged Historian
What? No t-shirt?
I was stuffing envelopes for SNCC when I was 10, and I feel the same.
Then his choice for VP would have been irrelevant under any circumstances. Even having Hillary on the ticket wouldn't have changed this. It would have made him look weak, which is already a meme the Repubs are floating, even with Biden.
Yes, ma'am. Hillary and Obama do not like each other.
Auntie GWPDA, believe me, I understand the weariness. I do it because I have a forum and because I have to. I wish that wasn't the case.
You are such a fool, blerb!! There is really more to life than the simple racist non racist meme you espouse so you can feel so superior. You are the narrow minded one.
toobad | 08.23.08 - 11:59 am | #
Nope, no way I'd recognize THAT lapidary prose style.
Hagel likes the ticket.
I'm a bit more hopeful about the degree of American racism these days, unlike in the sixties, say. People are used to working with, or for, people of other races, the ordinary interactions like in restaurants/stores and whatnot are better. Although black folk have it a hell of a lot roughter than white folk, and have to constantly be aware of racist others, the general meshing of gears in society I think has improved. We haven't gotten over the mountain MLK spoke of, but we're much further along.
I'm not always this optimistic, but I observe that the dumbshit racist stuff like the nooses and whatnot is met with shock and outrage in most parts.
Dr. J I understand the weariness.
It seems that I'll have to fight unto the grave.
I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Reality always seems to be somebody called MiMi on this comment section--or a troll.
Because it's reality, no matter how many different names you choose.
Frankly we aren't expecting to get many votes from the South.
You are going to be surprised.
Hagel likes the ticket.
Gomez
Well that's it, then. Chuck Hagel likes it, so it must be teh awesome.
Nice Leftie Les Paul, billy b.
Ah. It's mimi. I don't know what took me so long.
Adam Hominem
No, it's not me! I'm me! Or at least I think I'm me. But I'm not real, and I'm crazy, so what do I know?
Someday, I hope to see the word "conservative" relegated to the shitbin of history, and its practitioners forced to live in the streets and subsist on rotten fruits and potatoe peels.
Isn't Joe Biden's wife Mormon?
There goes that line of attack.
Did Biden vote for the AUMF?
Biden works in DC, he has never LIVED there.
No reason to. It's an easy commute. You can be there from Wilmington on Amtrak in the time it takes to get there from western Fairfax on I-66.
Nice Leftie Les Paul, billy b.
Thank you, my friend.
Did Biden vote for the AUMF?
Yes. Quite vocally.
Yes he did Steve.
But he's sorry.
Did Biden vote for the AUMF?
Yes, he did; he was also one of the first to admit what a mistake it was.
It's the gang rape boys behind the Dairy Queen again. Sooper Dooper!!
Biden's wife isn't running for office. Mormbot is.
I'm a bit more hopeful about the degree of American racism these days, unlike in the sixties, say.
I think the mass media have been doing a pretty good job over the last couple of decades of disseminating images that undermine racism subconsciously. When those ideas are so consistently shunned and vilified in the entire stream of popular media content, people's attitudes will shift over time. I believe, thankfully, that racist thought will be an alein concept to my son. But people live a long time.
If anyone knows who Ken Gregory or blueyonderusa is over at Kos it would really be helpful.
They sent Vicki very insulting and threatening e-mails.
I'm not always this optimistic, but I observe that the dumbshit racist stuff like the nooses and whatnot is met with shock and outrage in most parts.
helena handbasket | 08.23.08 - 12:07 pm | #
One of the reasons I'm convinced Obama will win big is precisely the fact that people under 30 in this country are, for all sorts of reasons, far less racist than their elders. In fact, they kind of think it's tacky and stupid to even think in those terms.
I hope I'm not overestimating this, but we shall see.
Billy B, I've been to a lot of conferences and such in the South.
It's hardly homogenous.
Well, I was told by a regular here that the old feminists concentrated
on the wrong issues and that we aren't really all that relevant
anymore. She was tired of hearing about the old fights.
I'm so sorry to hear how many of you have been getting this message.
Here is one Gen X'er who disagrees...
Biden voted for the War for Iraq, which means that Obama has no problem with its supporters, which means that the anti-war rationale Obama brought to the table is no longer operative.
Hippies get dissed again. Film at eleven.
Isn't Joe Biden's wife Mormon?
There goes that line of attack.
I, for one, am relieved. Not only do we allegedly have freedom of religious choice in this country, but I personally get tired of Christians making fun of the Mormon fairy tales while taking their own utterly seriously.
Yes, he did; he was also one of the first to admit what a mistake it was.
plantsman | 08.23.08 - 12:10 pm | #
Oh joy.
one other thing to keep in mind, despite all of his years in washington dc, he's not a millionaire.
Gee, and all this time I thought I was alone. It really did hurt my feelings at the time. But you know what, it's the internets. No room to take it personally.
Someday, I hope to see the word "conservative" relegated to the shitbin of history
Absent that, it would be nice if it actually started to mean what it is supposed to,instead of being code for "fascist"
Joe Biden, teh working man's Arlen Specter.
Toby, go to
http://biden.senate.gov
and educate yourself on Biden's position on the war.
It's the gang rape boys behind the Dairy Queen again. Sooper Dooper!!
It's the Tastee Freeze. If you're going to trool mimi, at least get the references correct.
Biden's wife isn't running for office. Mormbot is.
You're calling Joe Biden's and Chris Dodd's wives 'Mormbots'?
Again, there goes your line of attack.
Steve, I don't think you're overestimating it.
When I was in college, an interracial couple was still an oddity, looked upon in askance by even my so called enlightened peers. Nowadays, when I tell my students about that, they look at me as if they don't get it. They cross color lines these days without even thinking about it.
What moron in the Obama camp couldn't remember that Biden said Obama wasn't ready to be Prez in the ABC debate?
What was Obama thinking when he picked someone who said that?
I'm hearing some stirrings that... it... might... just... be... Joe Biden.
.
It's hardly homogenous.
Thank you, my dear Madame.
Simels:
I hope I'm not overestimating this, but we shall see.
Your understanding of your own racism is what's shocking. This insistence that race is importantunimportant is schizoid.
one other thing to keep in mind, despite all of his years in washington dc, he's not a millionaire.
nona |
Yup. No dirty money or greed there. 99th out of 100 in wealth. We really could have done much worse. My neighbors, except for the rethugs, are very happy with Biden.
Oh, you've been beind the Tastee Freeze, too. Cool! How was it pervert!
He's a centrist corporate whacko with some liberal tendencies, but dammit he's OUR centrist corporate whacko with some liberal tendendices!
gotta run.
Gee, and all this time I thought I was alone. It really did hurt my
feelings at the time. But you know what, it's the internets. No room to
take it personally.
I didn't see it at the time, ql - I woulda beat them into the ground had I done. Feminism isn't necessarily pacifism. You were never alone, however.
You can't honestly deny that Biden is the consummate insider. Could sorta blows that change message away.
I wanna see how Terry C is with it.
I'm hearing some stirrings that... it... might... just... be... Joe Biden.
Call the LA Times and tip them off, willya?
I hear the Biden message was sent at 0300 EDT. How fucking crafty is that?
Petzold's an idiot, but he makes a good point.
What was the single, most important issue Obama ran on to become the Democratic nominee, and what did he relentlessly attack Hillary on?
Both the left and the right seem equally disgusted with the choice of Biden. This could shape up to be Obama's biggest blunder when everyone hates your choice. On Neil Cavuto's show this morning there was not one guest, to a man or woman , who thought much of Biden as the vp choice.
Steve, I don't think you're overestimating it.
When I was in college, an interracial couple was still an oddity, looked upon in askance by even my so called enlightened peers. Nowadays, when I tell my students about that, they look at me as if they don't get it. They cross color lines these days without even thinking about it.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere
And that's why I think McCain will pick Condi for VP. The suburbs are now more important than the racists. And the suburbs want to vote Republican.
They sent Vicki very insulting and threatening e-mails.
Let me guess. . .
The police and the FBI don't give a shit?
Grow some skin. It's the internet.
Don't like it? Join a quilt circle jerk.
I think the reason he's Senator MBNA is that there is a hell of a lot of banking business going on in his very corporate-friendly state of Delaware. He ran the risk of being politically lynched if he didn't vote for it.
Biden voted for the War for Iraq, which means that Obama has no problem with its supporters
He said he regretted his decision.
sallyh, good point. And even here, in deepest redneck OK, interracial couples and mixed race children are everywhere, w/o remark. Of course, there are segregated neighborhoods and all that, but I'm just convinced that the general atmosphere is better.
Hillary would never admit her vote for the AUMF was a mistake -- that's not at all where Biden is, but thanks for playing poorly.
over the last few decades, wingers demonized the term liberal. then, over the past 8 years, wingers did the same thing to the term conservative.
leave 'em to their own devices, i say. implosion rocks.
Obama's nomination is historic. Why? Because of his race? What other reason is there? None. Therefore, the one thing that most distinguishes him in the minds of his acolytes is his race. That is racist. That is insufficient.
Tuffskins, shut the fuck up.
Christ, I just burned my pancakes over this...
Let me guess. . .
The police and the FBI don't give a shit?
Grow some skin. It's the internet.
Don't like it? Join a quilt circle jerk.
Tuffskins
No. I want to personally kick their ass. And who are you?
On Neil Cavuto's show this morning there was not one guest, to a man or woman , who thought much of Biden as the vp choice.
jack
Anyone notice that jack watches an awful lot of TV? Howard, is that you?
Iraq is sooo last week. The neo-cons are going to drop the Iraq Islamofascist thing in a flash and start shrieking about the Russian menace. A much more menacing demon to scare their base with.
Yup. No dirty money or greed there. 99th out of 100 in wealth. We really could have done much worse.
yah, know, i really do think that fact is significant. esp during these past 30 years when so much of that wdc class was focused on raking in the bucks. he's not my ideal, but it could have been worse.
Listen GWPDA and ql
I hear you, but am very sorry. You both know what you know and I can't apologize for every feminist that has scorned you. I must say, I have learned much from both of you and am here for more bolstering in case you didn't notice.
I am 45 and have no idea the age of anyone else, but when I realized that some of these young women do not have women my age in their lives that speak up for themselves, I was shocked. The reason they were shocked, IMHO was that I am an average looking, non-threatening type. What I tried to do was make them realize that I wasn't a radical but an average everyday woman who thinks this way. In these young girls eyes, I was fringe; I wanted them to know I am mainstream and it is not 'sinful' to breather the word abortion.
The fundies never give up, and they never say it is your generations turn, they just keep pounding and pounding these girls.
So now today I am sad at both ends of the spectrum, losing both of you and knowing that their are girls still being raised this way.
This post is too emotional and I apologize.
After this election my efforts will be more targeted on women's rights and the peace movement. I would like to say local politics too, but it is ugly for me here in conservatopia.
On Neil Cavuto's show this morning there was not one guest, to a man or woman , who thought much of Biden as the vp choice.
Neil Cavuto? It is to laugh.
He said he regretted his decision.
NTodd, 198 Tees In The Woods
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But he's the consensus "foreign policy expert"...
No. I want to personally kick their ass. And who are you?
Hmm. That sounds like a threat.
Should I contact the police & the FBI?
Obama's nomination is historic. Why? Because of his race? What other reason is there? None. Therefore, the one thing that most distinguishes him in the minds of his acolytes is his race. That is racist. That is insufficient.
Toby Petzold
I never noticed he was black.
Thank you for pointing that out.
What was the Green Party thinking nominating a former Congressperson that lost their seat in primary battle... twice? (and followed up with a law suit over one of them that was thrown out because her complaints were UNCONSTITUTIONAL!)
I know, the Green Party was choosing failure at the ballot box as their motto.
"A much more menacing demon to scare their base with."
I doubt their base is big enough anymore for stuff like that to work.
The problem with making heartfelt pleas to ignore the trolls on these threads is that everything goes down the memory hole so quickly. I wonder what it would cost to get Atrios to replace HULK SMASH with DON'T FEED THE TROLLS for a few days.
Prickstein:
He said he regretted his decision.
Why is that enough for you? Because your opposition to the War for Iraq isn't based on principle but on politics. So is Obama's. That's why you support him: for the changiness.
He's the head of The Senate Foreign Relations Committee -- and your credentials?
The consensus foreign policy "expert" makes a "mistake" on the biggest foreign policy decision of his career, and we should overlook it because he admitted it was a mistake...
Did he make big crocodile tears with his apology?
He didn't just vote for it - he enabled the R's and helped give Shrub cover, thinking the war would turn out like GWI.
Biden voted for the War for Iraq, which means that Obama has no problem with its supporters
McCain's isn't historic at all, so the race thing IS a big deal. It breaks up the status quo, which is worth the price of admission.
And then there's his experience, youth and energy, not to mention better policy stances than McCain's. The contrast is killing you, innit?
Neil Cavuto
The crazy fuck with the coke bottle glasses.
Obama's nomination is historic. Why? Because of his race? What other reason is there? None. Therefore, the one thing that most distinguishes him in the minds of his acolytes is his race. That is racist. That is insufficient.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:17 pm | #
Says the guy who's in bed with the party that all the honest to god, hate the N's invariably vote for.
Let's sum it up: You don't have to be a hardcore racist to vote Republican. But all the hardcore racists do.
Go fuck yourself, Tobes.
Hmm. That sounds like a threat.
Actually it isn't. I said I WANT to. I actually have to say I'm GOING to - to be a threat.
The Law. Read it.
yah, know, i really do think that fact is significant.
nona
His support for the bankruptcy bill is what was significant.
It was poor priests who burned Bruno at the stake. Whether Biden enriches himself at the public trough has little to do with his policy positions, unfortunately.
Okay then, it's Biden and we'll all deal with it in our way. And we'll fight for change because there's no other choice but surrender.
I have to go, but for those who loved the One House, One Spouse, Obama 08 meme, you can get code here to make bumper stickers or just buy one from my pal Jules, who is a 72 year old yellow dog Dem and living in Cancun for the last 20 years or something.
Check out his website. He's quite a character.
Well, Blerb, I feel confident that you would be the first troll to be erased.
Neil Cavuto? It is to laugh.
do you have any idea what the ratings are for that fox channel -- they're tanking, big time.
Business Is Slow for Fox Channel
Financial News Outlet Continues to Lag Far Behind CNBC
By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, July 26, 2008; Page C07
Fox News executives knew it would be a long, uphill battle to challenge CNBC when they launched a new business channel last October -- and new ratings confirm that they are right.
For the first three weeks of July, according to Nielsen figures obtained yesterday that have not been publicly released, Fox Business Network is averaging just 8,000 viewers during daytime hours, and 20,000 in prime time.
Putzfuck, you've been told before: when anyone here wants your moronic opinions, they will be beaten out of you with a Louisville Slugger.
Now STFU.
Dickweed.
Why is that enough for you? Because your opposition to the War for Iraq isn't based on principle but on politics.
It's enough for me to vote for Obama over McCain, yes. My opposition to all war is based on principle, you dog flambe eating moron.
we should overlook it because he admitted it was a mistake...
Elias | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:20 pm | #
Sadly, yes.
"Changiness???" Has Toby been secretly watching Colbert???
Obama hasn't even pulled out "vote for McCain and you/your kids will go to war" or "vote for McCain and all abortions, even the morning after pill, will be illegal" yet. McCain offers a very nice gift basket full of Daisy ads to his opponent.
One house
One spouse
One-button mouse!
.
That's great. You just admitted that your voting for a man because of his race. How is that not racist?
I'm going to be voting for McCain because I trust him and know him. You're voting for a guy because he looks different.
Brilliant.
What was the Green Party thinking nominating a black woman who, like the majority of America, wants a real investigation of 9/11, an end to the drug war (including letting nonviolent prisoners out of jail and restoring voting rights), and an alternative to the left/right hydra of the CFR/Skull & Bones?
I doubt their base is big enough anymore for stuff like that to work.
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher
Their base is the poorly informed, the easily gulled, and the just plain stupid.
Big as hell.
.Now STFU.
You know there's only one way to make that happen.....
One house
One spouse
One-button mouse!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian
somebody I forget who earlier proposed
"Two Guys, Two Houses"
Tobes, if you know him so well why don't you tell us exactly how many houses he has?
FYI for anyone coming here to Denver..
http://www.tentstate.org/
FOX needs to put some tighter sweaters on Liz Claman, God help me.
What was the Green Party thinking nominating a black woman
Again with the color thing.
Well, Blerb, I feel confident that you would be the first troll to be erased.
toobad | 08.23.08 - 12:21 pm | #
Glad to see you know who is still an ass. Apparently, the nerd chicks at his D&D group aren't helping...
You can't honestly deny that Biden is the consummate insider. Could sorta blows that change message away.
Troutski, BTW | 08.23.08 - 12:15 pm
The LBJ to JFK...
Actually it isn't. I said I WANT to. I actually have to say I'm GOING to - to be a threat.
Oh, so you aren't going to?
Then you're harmless & insignificant.
I'm sure the culprit is shaking in their shit kicking boots.
FOX needs to put some tighter sweaters on Liz Claman, God help me.
Toby Petzold
You've never been laid, have you?
That's great. You just admitted that your voting for a man because of his race. How is that not racist?
I admitted no such thing. I observed that his candidacy is historic because of his race and breaking the status quo of white men.
I did not support Obama during the primaries. I support him now because McCain is a disaster and until we have IRV I will not vote for a third party candidate for president, even if it's a black woman.
Learn to read.
This post is too emotional and I apologize.
you're sweet and I appreciate the support. But as I said, this is the internet. Doesn't pay to get emotionally involved.
The whole PUMA mess was started by a feminist who used to post at the big Orange. She got so tired of the misogynistic crap that she was getting for supporting Hillary that she started her own blog. (after seeing some of the emails Vicki got, I can understand it better) It mushroomed. I've been following them almost since they broke away. IMHO, they felt personally insulted by their online community and have transferred that into their irrational political position.
I believe that if HRC had said something like this at the beginning of her campaign she'd be well on the way to becoming Madame President.
I was involved in many of the early decisions on Vietnam, decisions which helped set us on our present path. It may be that the effort was doomed from the start; that it was never really possible to bring all the people of South Vietnam under the rule of the successive governments we supported — governments, one after another, riddled with corruption, inefficiency, and greed; governments which did not and could not successfully capture and energize the national feeling of their people. If that is the case, as it well may be, then I am willing to bear my share of the responsibility, before history and before my fellow-citizens. But past error is no excuse for its own perpetuation. Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom, not a guide by which to live. Now as ever, we do ourselves best justice when we measure ourselves against ancient tests, as in the Antigone of Sophocles: “All men make mistakes, but a good man yields when he knows his course is wrong, and repairs the evil. The only sin is pride.”
RFK at the beginning of his presidential campaign.
TJ: "Two Guys, Two Houses"
That was a dood who was on Morning Joe, today.
.
"Fox Business Network is averaging just 8,000 viewers during daytime hours, and 20,000 in prime time."
one question I asked everyone while I was at that teachers workshop at the New York Stock Exchange: What do you read and/or watch?
Just about all of them said they watched FBN. It was also one of the news stations watched on the trading floor.
Tobes, if you know him so well why don't you tell us exactly how many houses he has?
Only a dumbass whose own home was purchased in concert with someone under multiple indictments would think to raise an irrelevant issue over an answer like McCain's. Who gives a fuck? The desperation is pretty clear.
I'm going to be voting for McCain because I trust him and know him.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:23 pm | #
You know and trust an Adulterous Senile Gigolo?
Wow.
Tobes, if you know him so well why don't you tell us exactly how many houses he has?
White Supremacists have a hard time with arithmetic.
Oh, so you aren't going to?
Then you're harmless & insignificant.
I'm sure the culprit is shaking in their shit kicking boots.
Pish posh.
Again. Name and location please?
Again with the color thing.
If the Greens want to peel off votes of people voting based on Obama's race, as well as those who won't vote for him because of perceived sexism towards Hillary, why not choose a black woman?
I'd love to see Cynthia & Michelle in a debate.
Michelle would have her (proverbial) weave ripped out.
News Corp's stock is down 34 percent for this year.
Toby:
Just out of curiosity, how many basements does your mom own?
NTodd, what is IRV?
You are going to be surprised.
billy b
Biden was not my first second or even 5th choice, but I guess Obama is doing what he or his advisers think he has to. Maybe it's the fear of what they found in the backgrounds of other, more liberal choices, that caused this pick. The trouble with that is that the country is going to be stuck with Biden and maybe an aged Biden candidate after 8 years.
Only a dumbass whose own home was purchased in concert with someone under multiple indictments
You really are a dumbass aren't you?
I clearly need to apologize for punctuation and grammar. I am on the laptop and suck more without a keyboard and mouse.
It does bother me that the same yungins' that are far less rascist and homophobic are still very sexist. I cannot figure it out and do not know what direction to go with this.
McStain's Theme Song:
Just a gigolo, Everywhere I go,
People know the part I'm playing.
Paid for every bill, By each corporate shill,
Everyday some rube betraying.
There will come a day, I will pass away,
Then, what will they say about me?
When the end comes I know
They'll say "Just a gigolo,"
As life goes on without me.
"Big as hell."
true dat. but is it big enough to win? I don't think so.
if mccain simply sucks up to the far right i think he loses for sure
RFK at the beginning of his presidential campaign.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants
When he shall die
Take him and cut him out in little stars
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world will be in love with night
And pay no worship to the garish sun.
Again. Name and location please?
Why would you be interested in that?
Your sexual advances are now welcome.
Shall I contact the police & FBI now?
Biden brings nothing to the ticket. It was a sell-out move. Unelectric.
RFK at the beginning of his presidential campaign.
That was awesome. Totally elitist, of course.
I believe that if HRC had said something like this at the beginning of her campaign she'd be well on the way to becoming Madame President.
I believe you're correct.
RFK at the beginning of his presidential campaign.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:27 pm | #
You got that right.
If Hillary had been unambiguously anti-war, she would have had the nomination in a walk.
Michelle would have her (proverbial) weave ripped out.
Only in your most twisted fantasies, fucktard.
oh, for chrissakes, david shuster is trying to link the infamous 3 a.m. ad to the 3 a.m. v.p. text messaging that didn't go off quite right.
The problem with making heartfelt pleas to ignore the trolls on these threads is that everything goes down the memory hole so quickly. I wonder what it would cost to get Atrios to replace HULK SMASH with DON'T FEED THE TROLLS for a few days.
blerb | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:20 pm
a few simple modifications to the scroll troll filter and voila... no more toby or elias in sight.
f the Greens want to peel off votes of people voting based on Obama's race, as well as those who won't vote for him because of perceived sexism towards Hillary, why not choose a black woman?
I'd love to see Cynthia & Michelle in a debate.
Michelle would have her (proverbial) weave ripped out.
FORP.
"I'm not a liberal! I'm a foreign policy superhero"-Peter Beinart
heh. Lime Rickey, you and tigre think alike. She posted the Just a Gigolo video in honor of McCain just the other day at dependable renegade.
Your sexual advances are NOT welcome.
Though you are welcome to give your name & location.
Or are you a chickenshit?
Darksyde is reporting that Robin Leach (Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous) has come out in support of McCain.
http://www.dailykos.com/
Why would you be interested in that?
Coward.
Biden brings nothing to the ticket. It was a sell-out move. Unelectric.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:30 pm | #
>
Seriously, Tobes -- your mom owns how many basements?
"Changiness???" Has Toby been secretly watching Colbert???
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere | 08.23.08 - 12:23 pm | #
Toby thinks Colbert's character is real.
What is IRV?
G'morning friends: I see that the buffoons have already shown up today--must be very concerned about this race if they have to haunt this site day in and day out.
If these clowns were secure in their candidate, they would have no reason to be here--are you a little scared Putzy, Chilibean, Elias, etc? What a bunch of wussies.
FWIW Biden is a very decent, smart and funny man. I worked closely with him when I worked on the hill on one of his committee's and I have enormous respect for him. This was shortly after his wife and daughter had been killed. He hasn't changed in 20 years--plus he is extremely well liked by his colleagues.
To the trolls: get the hell out of here and hit the bricks--if you can't be part of the discussion and have some respect for the rest of us, you have no business being here. Tata.
.Glad to see you know who is still an ass. Apparently, the nerd chicks at his D&D group aren't helping...
steve hüssein® simels
Wow. What an utterly uncalled-for, totally asshole thing to say.
Who gives a fuck?
Let's watch and find out.
"It does bother me that the same yungins' that are far less rascist and homophobic are still very sexist. I cannot figure it out and do not know what direction to go with this."
it always disturbs me that when i try in school to interrupt sexist behavior it is often the young women who argue the loudest that there is no problem.
Tobes, show me where Obama got help on his house purchase from Mr. Rezko. While your looking, show me exactly where it says Rezko was under any indictment when Obama bought his house. I'm not quite through. Look up what Rezko was indicted for and show me how Obama was involved in any way. Your next stop, Keating Five.
I'll wait here, you dumbfuck.
Simels, you fucking hack. If you're gonna just phone it in, why don't you hit the bricks instead?
Cosmic, if Leach has a rationale for that, I believe it's because McCain gives him so much more material to work with.
Leach is a bitchy old queen.
I believe that if HRC had said something like this at the beginning of her campaign she'd be well on the way to becoming Madame President.
Alas, I believe those were different times.
Just about all of them said they watched FBN. It was also one of the news stations watched on the trading floor.
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher
no wonder the markets are so corrupt and in such a state of meltdown. this is the intelligence level you're dealing with.
heh. Lime Rickey, you and tigre think alike. She posted the Just a Gigolo video in honor of McCain just the other day at dependable renegade.
TJ, anti coathanger
Dammit! Scooped again!
I'm disliking David Shuster more and more every day.
I was a fan of his lazy eye earlier on but now he's showing his Faux News roots.
Wow. What an utterly uncalled-for, totally asshole thing to say.
blerb | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:32 pm | #
I'm assuming you're being namestolen, but if you're not I was referring to the troll, not you.
NTodd, what is IRV?
Instant Runoff Voting.
Simels, you fucking hack. If you're gonna just phone it in, why don't you hit the bricks instead?
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:33 pm | #
So your mom owns multiple basements?
Y'know; Biden's wife Jill bears a passing resemblance to Cindy McCain - except she looks much more relaxed and alive.
"this is the intelligence level you're dealing with."
oh they're intelligent - just insulated. it's a weird world.
RFK at the beginning of his presidential campaign.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:27 pm | #
What are you trying to do ... make me cry?
Toby the White Supremacist has allies who are being made to feel unwelcome in Today's GOP.
Flake, along with Reps. John Shadegg and Trent Franks, sent a letter Tuesday to Tom Husband, Maricopa County Republican chairman, demanding that J.T. Ready be removed as a precinct committeeman in legislative District 18 because of his ties to the neo-Nazi movement.
david shuster is trying to link the infamous 3 a.m. ad to the 3 a.m. v.p. text messaging that didn't go off quite right.
Hillary woke up and cried.
Coward, thy name is Gomez.
Name and location?
Or are you too much of a hypocritical chickenshit?
Only a dumbass whose own home was purchased in concert with someone under multiple indictments would think to raise an irrelevant issue over an answer like McCain's. Who gives a fuck? The desperation is pretty clear.
Yes, it's pretty clear on your end. Flop sweat smells great in the morning.
Stanley Kurtz is doing some top-shelf investigative reporting on the Obama-Ayers collaborations. It's going to dominate the news in a couple weeks. Just wait. America doesn't like hippie terrorists or the useful idiots who sit at their knees.
blerb the age of people speaking in complete sentences is, alas, gone.
Shame really.
I'm disliking David Shuster more and more every day.
he's taking every fucking innocuous, irrelevant thing and trying to blow it up into some huge insight/evidence of the obama campaign's disarray.
what a shithead.
IMHO, they felt personally insulted by their online community and have transferred that into their irrational political position.
qlª - Obama/Biden | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:27 pm
Unfortunately they've had many a loon, who are more sexist and racist, join as hangers on...
camelot, it has to do, as always, with fear. Fear of the Other, fear of personal damage, fear of failure. When it is no longer possible to live in a society and be given (or take) benefit because of pigment or ethnicity, the Other will remain.
What is IRV?
It's what your Mom took your sister to the doc to have installed in her uterus so there was less chance of her bearing your mutant, inbred spawn.
.
she looks much more relaxed and alive.
And poor.
Toby, you're so off base it's ridiculous.
Instant Runoff Voting.
thanks, I'll go read and learn.
question for you: if it turns out that NC is absolutely not in play for the Democrats, can I vote Green? i would be interested in your opinion b/c I have been mulling it over.
Still waiting, Tobes. Dumbfuck.
I'm going to be voting for McCain because I trust him and know him.
Toby Petzold
------------------------------
Would you trust having McCain fly the plane your riding in? would you trust McCain with your wife? Would you trust McCain doing your banking?
Coward, thy name is Gomez.
Name and location?
Jack Mehoffer
Now your name?
Just like the "Should Obama Pick Hillary?" ad on the Eschaton homepage.
Biden also believes the election of Chavez as well as other anti-US leaders throughout Central and South America is "anti-democratic."
Stanley Kurtz is doing some top-shelf investigative reporting on the Obama-Ayers collaborations. It's going to dominate the news in a couple weeks. Just wait. America doesn't like hippie terrorists or the useful idiots who sit at their knees.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:36 pm | #
I must have missed the news -- Has Obama picked Ayers as Secretary of Kill Whitey?
Cool!!!!
OK, I guess I didn't see the snark. We were talking about D&D just two days ago, so it seemed very much like you were talking about me. And it's not like you've never up and unloaded on me out of nowhere before. Unless you were being namestolen then, which I doubt.
The report claims more than 50,000 women a year have deserted their congregations over the past two decades because they feel the church is not relevant to their lives.
It says that instead young women are becoming attracted to the pagan religion Wicca, where females play a central role, which has grown in popularity after being featured positively in films, TV shows and books.
The study comes amid ongoing controversy over the role of women in all Christian denominations. Last month its governing body voted to allow women to become bishops for the first time, having admitted them to the priesthood in 1994, but traditionalist bishops have warned that hundreds of clergy and parishes will leave if the move goes ahead as planned.
The report's author, Dr Kristin Aune, a sociologist at the University of Derby, said: "In short, women are abandoning the church.
"Because of its focus on female empowerment, young women are attracted by Wicca, popularised by the TV series Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
"Young women tend to express egalitarian values and dislike the traditionalism and hierarchies they imagine are integral to the church.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/...udy-
claims.html
Obama-Ayers collaborations
obama was what, 8 years old, in 1969.
Of course you are, dear. | 08.23.08 - 12:36 pm | #
there can't be that many Allen Butler's in a town the size of Georgetown, Texas, can there?
Thanks ql, I hate being sweet and am working on it.
I agree Uncle Blodge, (about the female students) and are we still in need of a hand-holding Kumbaya moment? I believe I pissed you off in some way?
Ralphie:
Look up what Rezko was indicted for and show me how Obama was involved in any way.
I don't think he was, was he? Do you know something I don't?
Why were those adjoining properties bought on the same day in the wives' names?
if it turns out that NC is absolutely not in play for the Democrats, can I vote Green? i would be interested in your opinion b/c I have been mulling it over.
I'd probably still vote Dem myself only because I'm not satisfied that the Greens have done enough work to built a real movement and ability to govern nationwide. I don't mean in terms of organization, but in terms of meaninful local and state offices, a Congressional seat or two, etc. I'd like to see more there first before they grab for the brass ring. YMMV.
As for IRV, check out FairVote: http://www.fairvote.org/irv/
I'm hoping Biden will fill Obama in on the egregiousness of Bolton's crimes, since it's the egregious ones Barak says his admin will investigate.
Only a dumbass whose own home was purchased in concert with someone under multiple indictments would think to raise an irrelevant issue over an answer like McCain's. Who gives a fuck? The desperation is pretty clear.
Putzfuck: another guy who missed his calling down at the octoplex.
Even not-so-young women are attracted to Wicca.
NTodd, we have IRV in CA. It's a good way to go.
Reality always seems to be somebody called MiMi on this comment section--or a troll.
We don't do reality here. You must be thinking of another blog.
Now your name?
Gomez
That's a brave thing, Gomez. I'm not sure I'd have gone there. Bet the troll doesn't.
Who gives a fuck?
A 70+ year old curmudgeon is running for the most powerful positon on the planet. The fact that the senile old fool can't sort out that he has 8 or 9 houses is a problem.
The desperation is pretty clear.
That would be the case with you and the rest of the republics. It's ass out for you, peabrain.
heh.
So the parcel could be sold as a single unit.
Jack Mehoffer
Now your name?
Gomez
It suits you! Does Vicki comply?
My name?
Ken Gregory
You can tell Obama is going to cater to the teachers' unions by opposing school choice and other major reforms. He has no principles.
What were he and Ayers collaborating on? Corrupting education in Chicago.
BTW, if we'd had IRV in 2000, people in Florida could've ranked their preferences thus:
1) Nader
2) Gore
3) Mickey Mouse
When Nader was shown to not have a majority vote, Gore would be the next operative choice and would've won handily...
thanks, NTodd.
We were talking about D&D just two days ago, so it seemed very much like you were talking about me.
blerb | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:38 pm | #
Our friend the asshole troll whose name I will no longer mention (or talk to directly):
http://roleplayers.meetup.com/41...embers/7230648/
ql--there were many of us, especially women of a certain age, who were dumbstruck by the sexism threaded throughout the liberal blogs during the primary.
We clearly have a looong way to go. More of that generational somnolence I spoke of earlier.
Come on Tobes, you made a statement. Back it up, dumbfuck. Jesus, you are one pathetic, sick asshole. All talk, no proof.
"Young women tend to express egalitarian values and dislike the
traditionalism and hierarchies they imagine are integral to the church.
Same with older women.
"I believe I pissed you off in some way?"
not in the least. however, misunderstandings between me and others here have become distressingly frequent. it's irritating.
there's other stuff - but it's personal.
we're fine worry not.
You can tell Obama is going to cater to the teachers' unions by opposing school choice and other major reforms. He has no principles.
One might say that working with the unions and blocking bad "reforms" (ala SS) is principled.
"Because of its focus on female empowerment, young women are attracted by Wicca
They can turn a snake into a stiff rod.
Is this boxer's name num num?
any of you hosers ready for a batch of bloody mary's? if not, noproblemo, i'll just have to drink them all.
hi honeybear...
"There is apparently no limit to the Bush
administration's desire to invade Americans' privacy in the name of national security. According to members of Congress, Attorney General Michael Mukasey is preparing to give the F.B.I. broad new authority to investigate Americans - without any clear basis for suspicion that they are committing a crime. Opening the door to sweeping investigations of this kind would be an invitation to the government to spy on people based on their race, religion or political activities. Before Mr. Mukasey goes any further, Congress should insist that the guidelines be fully vetted, and it should make
certain that they do not pose a further threat to Americans' civil liberties." (NYT)
Wouldn't it be nice if the Democratic candidates noticed this going on? I mean, particularly since they are both Senators and might have some involvement in cutting off this deal?
I must have missed the news -- Has Obama picked Ayers as Secretary of Kill Whitey?
Cool!!!!
steve hüssein® simels
No, but he could appoint him head of the Weather Service, which would be sorta apropos.
There already is school choice. You can choose a private school just don't expect us the taxpayers to pay for it.
Come on Tobes, you made a statement. Back it up, dumbfuck. Jesus, you are one pathetic, sick asshole. All talk, no proof.
it's how they are taught to debate at the National Socialist White People's Summer Youth Camp and Bonfire Jamboreee.
sad, really.
Sally H: I was glad to read that things are going MUCH better in your household....you deserve a well earned respite.
Ahh, getting our morning workouts with the shadowboxing troll dummies are we? Well, enjoy. Going to do housework today mostly, weather has cooled off a little bit. Death to the corporatist pigs, long live the revolution, bigger, deeper duckpits, and eco-friendly SunRockets™ we'll rid the world of the trolls someday.
My name?
Ken Gregory
Of course!
Funny. I thought it was Mike Hunt.
Now your name?
Dick Pinch, Clear Lake IA.
It's an extraordinary weakness for a Democratic nominee to have so poor a record on edcuation.
Well, Kerry admitted his vote for the war was a mistake and he go a shitload of grief from the rethugs for it. Remember, first he was for it, then he was against it. Flip flopper.
I don't want to refight the primary wars. I am moderately enthused by this ticket and feel good about it. Of course, it's not ideal, but it's politics, the art of the possible.
have one for me, fokowi.
Uncle Blodge, saw your new school! I'm very excited for you.
I agree with you on women at times being the most egregious sexists. Regrettably, we have a culture that is so ingrained in that fashion that it's tough to fight it.
hi fokowi...
I need a new pair of glasses.
Off for now.
You can tell Obama is going to cater to the teachers' unions by opposing school choice and other major reforms. He has no principles.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:41 pm | #
The "reforms" you're talking about are Republican stalking horses for their ultimate goal of getting rid of public education altogether.
The fact that he's against them proves that he not only has principles but brains. Unlike you, who have neither.
BTW -- good luck to you Republicans running against teachers. That'll work great!!!!!
You can tell Obama is going to cater to the teachers' unions
Toby Petzold
God forbid!
if it turns out that NC is absolutely not in play for the Democrats, can I vote Green?
Fuck off, Greenshirt!
They can turn a snake into a stiff rod.
Yeah, but can they then direct the stiff rod for maximum effect?
I'd probably still vote Dem myself only because I'm not satisfied that the Greens have done enough work to built a real movement and ability to govern nationwide.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Create a Catch-22, then condemn those who reject it...
FoxNews is using Biden's remarks against Obama. Just how low can Fox go?
It's an extraordinary weakness for a Democratic nominee to have so poor a record on edcuation.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:44 pm | #
The jokes just write themselves.
Now your name?
Dick Pinch, Clear Lake IA.
it's true
I would have guessed Hugh Jass.
Shuster in hack mode is hard to take.
sekmet:
You can choose a private school just don't expect us the taxpayers to pay for it.
Right. Instead, force lower-income parents to keep sending their children to these pits of violence and incompetence. That's a real "progressive" view to take. Just keep low-income people down for the benefit of asshole education bureaucrats.
Funny. I thought it was Mike Hunt.
Gomez
You have a cunt?
Why am I not suprised?
Yeah, but can they then direct the stiff rod for maximum effect?
Apprentice to Darth Holden
It comes natural-like.
"You can tell Obama is going to cater to the teachers' unions by opposing school choice and other major reforms."
alleged intelligent people think this shit too. it's part of why I sometime think this teaching shit is a waste of time. me against the world.
I won't quit but damn it's depressing sometimes
BTW -- good luck to you Republicans running against teachers. That'll work great!!!!!
Toby the White Supremacist likes to rail against teacher's unions because he taught 6th graders for a whole year, and they kicked his ass. the union grievance officer just laughed at him when Tubby demanded the local "make them stop laughing at me!"
Create a Catch-22, then condemn those who reject it...
It's not a Catch-22, actually, nor have I condemned anybody for rejecting it.
I said they need to work at lower levels and build a firm foundation. Then they'll be able to enact local and state electoral reforms and push more for national IRV and such. Then it will be more likely that a) they can win the Presidency and b) even if they can't, they won't continue to foster the notion that a Green vote is a wasted vote.
Get on board the clue bus.
Sconset, much better, thank you so much.
I'm a little wigged this morning. The ex has been pressuring Mlle to take Maddy with him and her on an outing. She finally agreed to Magic Mountain's Thomas the Tank Engine exhibit, which Maddy will love. She's hoping it will shut him up. I told her that he was manipulating her, and she knows he is. I also told her that if he starts getting weird or ugly, to call me immediately. MM is only 10 miles away; I could get her easily.
Monsieur and I are supposed to have Maddy tomorrow afternoon; we will probably take her out to see her Mom in Mom's neighborhood. Lots of things for kids to love in Pasadena.
Saddam Hussein Osama Bin Laden
Khrist, even Kerry wouldn't pick Biden...
it's a gorgeous day here in Chapel Hill. I'm off for a run, then gardening, then school shopping with the teenager (oh joy!)
later, peeps.
You have a cunt?
Why am I not suprised?
Kenny G
Nothing worse than a cunt, eh?
Thus stands revealed Republican thinking, in all its glory.
The Geriatric Gigolo™ is nowhere to be seen on MSNBC.
You can tell Obama is going to cater to the teachers' unions by opposing school choice and other major reforms.
Thank the goddesses for that.
I would have guessed Hugh Jass.
I'd like to introduce these guys to my friend Taras Balzoff.
I would have guessed Hugh Jass.
Amanda Hugandkiss, a dyed-in-the-woll Republican, even knows how to tap his toes.
Right. Instead, force lower-income parents to keep sending their children to these pits of violence and incompetence. That's a real "progressive" view to take. Just keep low-income people down for the benefit of asshole education bureaucrats.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:46 pm | #
Ladies and gentlemen, may I present the King of Pretzel Logic.
Only a dumbass whose own home was purchased in concert with someone under multiple indictments would think to raise an irrelevant issue over an answer like McCain's. Who gives a fuck? The desperation is pretty clear.
Come on Toby, I'm waiting for your proof. Dumbfucking asshole.
Our friend the asshole troll whose name I will no longer mention (or talk to directly):
Fair enough. Misunderstanding. My bad. And thank you for not talking to it. It has gotten way too fat and sassy, and there are many important matters to be discussed by all the smart and interesting people here.
FoxNews is using Biden's remarks against Obama. Just how low can Fox go?
Oh, I'm sure we have yet to see Faux plumb the deepest depths of depravity yet.
Just keep low-income people down for the benefit of asshole education bureaucrats.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:46 pm | #
Of course that statement totally lacks anything resembling the qualities that might make it the truth, but in the larger sense the idea of a Republican evincing the slightest concern for low-income people is so laughable I don't know where to begin.
The Republican Party: Socialism for the Rich!!!!!
I said they need to work at lower levels and build a firm foundation. Then they'll be able to enact local and state electoral reforms and push more for national IRV and such. Then it will be more likely that a) they can win the Presidency and b) even if they can't, they won't continue to foster the notion that a Green vote is a wasted vote.
Get on board the clue bus.
NTodd, 198 Tees In The Woods
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Where is this stated in the US Constitution?
As always, my lawyer (the honorable Reason A. Goodwin, Esq.) informs me I must insist all namestealers include this link when impersonating me.
Thanks for your prompt attention to this matter...
You can tell Obama is going to cater to the teachers' unions by opposing school choice and other major reforms. He has no principles.
Toby Petzold
---------------------
1. The teachers' unions no not run the schools, the school boards do!
2. Everyone has school choice. The question is who is going to pay for it.
Fair enough. Misunderstanding. My bad. And thank you for not talking to it. It has gotten way too fat and sassy, and there are many important matters to be discussed by all the smart and interesting people here.
blerb | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:49 pm | #
No problemo.
Reality always seems to be somebody called MiMi on this comment section--or a troll.
We don't do reality here. You must be thinking of another blog.
What we do here is we fight trolls and each other. When we fight each other we mostly use sock puppets.
Biden will be as tough with banks and car manufacturers facing bankruptcy as he is with Americans struck with cancer up to their eyeballs in credit card debt facing bankruptcy?
Simels:
The "reforms" you're talking about are Republican stalking horses for their ultimate goal of getting rid of public education altogether.
Obama's record on education ---just as it is with housing--- is surprisingly bad. You may want to check in to his time in Chicago, Steve. The Ayers thing is looming, as are the housing project stories he's implicated in. It's major graft. Look into it.
Yawn. As if you gave a flying f*ck about poor people.
Both the Liberty and the Free Gaza have made it past the blockade and into the territory.
Right. Instead, force lower-income parents to keep sending their children to these pits of violence and incompetence. That's a real "progressive" view to take. Just keep low-income people down for the benefit of asshole education bureaucrats.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:46 pm | #
Fleeing the system to fix the system.
In my experience, if you scratch these "school choice" people they end up saying "niggers go to these schools, niggers I tells ya."
And no, Tobes, you didn't come out and say it, but you know you're thinking it.
You and your ilk are no different in result--and possibly motivation--than George Wallace in his "school choice" initiatives.
"Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."
Doesn't Putzhole EVER leave?
I mean, doesn't he have fellow racist/sexist mouthbreathers he can hang out with?
Who was it who wrote the the comments at Eschaton were a cesspool. Must have been prescient.
You can tell Obama is going to cater to the teachers' unions--
Education: the enemy of the wingnut.
Where is this stated in the US Constitution?
I made no Constitutional claim, though IRV would not be unconstitutional. Amending the fucker to rid us of the College would be important, but IRV would be the first most effective step. We're talking about what I see as necessary strategic thinking: going for the WH is more or less a stunt with the current political environment, like it or not. Build a solid foundation and it becomes more likely to happen, not unlike pouring concrete and putting up a frame before you roof your house.
North Carolina is definitely in play this year. It has polled with very low McCain margins for months. Please don't vote Green or any other liberal 3rd party there. Just don't do it. Please.
BHO-MBNA '08!
Doesn't Putzhole EVER leave?
5 cents a word from Unka Karl is all he's got left since they bounced him at Jack-in-the-Box...
Jeez, I hope the trolls stay on education through November. Huge failure on Republican's part and a plank that Dems are very strong on.
Do the work for us and I'll be registering more Dem voters.
I mean, doesn't he have fellow racist/sexist mouthbreathers he can hang out with?
They had the guts to ban the dumbfuck.
Yawn. As if you gave a flying f*ck about poor people.
sekmet
I've come in late.
Don't tell me the asshole is pushing vouchers.
The Constitution doesn't mean shit to these rightards, do they?
Doesn't Putzhole EVER leave?
I mean, doesn't he have fellow racist/sexist mouthbreathers he can hang out with?
Terry C - Kick the GOP out
I'm telling ya--the Bush economy lost him his job. He's got all kinds of free time, now.
Instead, force lower-income parents to keep sending their children to these pits of violence and incompetence.
heh. In the make-believe world of republics, the po' folk can get a $2000 voucher to send them to private school.
What a swell group of guys the republics are.
I mean, doesn't he have fellow racist/sexist mouthbreathers he can hang out with?
They had the guts to ban the dumbfuck.
Ralphie
Probably.
I meant OFF the computer.
In the real world.
Feminism means something different to each generation of women, thanks to our predecessors.
MSNBC is in love with Biden's personal story ... goes home every night to be with his family. On Amtrak.
And why don't we make public schools in poorer areas better by giving them more money so they are comparable to suburban schools.
I must say the "school choice" people are one the most dishonest group of people I have ever met.
Just come out and say it voucher people. School choice, vouchers, privatizing, etc., is about raiding public school budgets for personal gain.
Anything else said is just bullshit.
omg it's 10am already. I can't let another day go down the Eschadrain....
BHO-MBNA '08!
And if McWarLover picks Mittens, it's McCain/Wall Street.
Never mind that Romney is an empty suit.
Guess where this bit of stupidity comes from:
On All the Wires
August 23rd, 2008
Everybody’s saying it’s Obama-Biden.
That means McCain wins. I hope he picks Mitt Romney if for no other reason than to draw Obama into having something to say about Mormonism or polygamy. His supporters won’t be able to help themselves. And then the coups de grace come on the crypto-Muslim issue. To the swift go the boats.
I say to Hillary’s supporters: walk away from this unqualified liar and work on getting your Congressional candidates into office. You’ll be doing the right thing for yourselves twice: strengthening your hold on Congress while giving Hillary another chance in 2012. Do it for your grandmothers, ladies. Do it for the Republic.
sheets
Prickstein:
Amending the fucker to rid us of the College would be important
The Electoral College is a brake on regional domination. Remove that resistor and it will lead to secession.
Private schools aren't allowed to discriminate - oh, wait, they are.
Did we say discrimination? No the admissions process is very competitive.
Who was it who wrote the the comments at Eschaton were a cesspool. Must have been prescient.
Someone told Jay A. that before he came here.
omg it's 10am already. I can't let another day go down the Eschadrain....
blerb
I suggest you trademark that, quick!
Blerb, OMG, you're right. I haven't even hit the shower yet, and I've been up for over three hours.
Place is a fucking crack den
why don't we make public schools in poorer areas better by giving them more money so they are comparable to suburban schools?
Why don't we tax the multi-millionaires and corporations so we can provide for the common good, the way communists like Eisenhower did in the 50s?
And why don't we make public schools in poorer areas better by giving them more money so they are comparable to suburban schools.
Since that makes sense and would be successful, it automatically goes out the window as far as the republics are concerned. Plus, there's not enough cash for them to steal in a plan like that.
"And why don't we make public schools in poorer areas better by giving them more money so they are comparable to suburban schools."
it'll be answered "they have all the money they need" and with an assertion that private is always better than public.
Oh - and "you can learn anywhere"
The Electoral College is a brake on regional domination. Remove that resistor and it will lead to secession.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 08.23.08 - 12:56 pm | #
Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Guess where this bit of stupidity comes from...
Larry Johnson?
Everybody’s saying it’s Obama-Biden.
That means McCain wins
Bullshit.
I'll never forgive Lincoln for not using the bomb when he had the chance...
that private is always better than public
Ya, the Iraq war showed that is total bullshit.
"Ya, the Iraq war showed that is total bullshit."
you and I know that but I don't think the sheeple do
Shuster in hack mode is hard to take.
plantsman
he's hard to take period, with that Wallace (of Grommit fame)mouth of his.
and that crossed-eyed gay black rethug strategist is infuriating
Smaller schools make for better education. The kids are safer, more disciplined, and enjoy more personal time with their teachers.
:terrorist fist jabs: 'morning. Biden? mokay.
And will someone please put Scott Simon out of my misery.
Smaller schools make for better education. The kids are safer, more disciplined, and enjoy more personal time with their teachers.
If you went to one, it sure didn't do YOU any good.
The corporations want to
1. raid the billions in public school financing like they did with the military budget
2. make public schools an extension of the corporate HR department.
That's what NCLB, vouchers, standardized testing, etc. is all about. It is not about real education.
Everything else said is just bullshit.
I'm shocked - SHOCKED - to discover the AP's Ron Fournier dissing Obama's VP pick!
"Your paycheck, Mr. Fournier."
"Oh, thank you very much, Senator..."
"Smaller schools make for better education. The kids are safer, more disciplined, and enjoy more personal time with their teachers."
Oh and - smaller class size.
all this costs money.
when I hear a repug talking about giving schools more money I might believe them.
"make public schools an extension of the corporate HR department."
I assume you know that a school has to surrender student records if a military recruiter asks? This includes addresses and phone numbers.
parents can sign a waiver but they have to know they need to.
Time to put the Dog Burner on killfile.
Jeezus, what a stupid racist loser.
Holy shit, I just realized I am poor and I care about me. Dang, so much for joining the country club.
Smaller schools make for better education. The kids are safer, more disciplined, and enjoy more personal time with their teachers.
Plus its easier to liberalize the little fuckers.
Recent research suggest female and male genitalia are much closer in design than originally thought, I guess that makes us all "cunts" (and "pricks").
Biden represents EXACTLY the beltway mentality that Obama's early candidacy promised to "change." For veep he selects a total mediocrity who is the very embodiment of status quo. No wonder absolutely NO ONE is excited about this pick.
I am seriously going to vote for Bob Barr now.
If Obama had picked Hillary, he might have a chance of winning.
With Biden, he has no chance of winning, so I might as well vote for the party I agree with. Barr is a man who will do anything for politics.
God bless him, and fuck the Democlicans.
adopt the mushier "progressive.
Atrios
Watch out, Atrios. I suggested the same thing, that "progressive" was mushy as a political appelation, and Simels told me to fuck myself, and threatened to ban me. Just a tip, but I'd be careful.
I like Biden.
I like Obama.
Definitely a winning ticket, both for the Democratic Party and for our nation.
Republicans religiously believe in the death penalty. Most conservatives, if not all conservatives, religiously believe in the death penalty. Two thousand years ago, those people who crucified Jesus Christ religiously believed in the death penalty...and scourging.
Over the past eight years, similar-minded simple-minded conservatives, who religiously believe in the death penalty (and scourging/torture), have done everything they can to crucify our nation, cripple our liberal democracy, castigate our Constitution, destroy it. For eight long, long years, Bush, Cheney and all the conservative neo-con Republicans have been chanting "Death to America," driving up deficits, selling out our children's future, subverting the rule of law, promoting the "death penalty" for U.S. citizens (Katrina) and other men, women and children overseas (Iraq), while lying about all that they've been doing to destroy America, to crucify the "liberal" in our liberal democracy.
I like Obama.
I like Biden.
Definitely a winning ticket, both for the Democratic Party and for our nation.
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