I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Crisco!
It's about fucking time.
Hey Bjorn.
Did I read that the CIA redacted Val's breasts?
Hopefully this is John Howard's last day as PM.
My breasts are perfect; and they're spectacular.
Relatives are a dish best served cold.
.
Hopefully this is John Howard's last day as PM.
I've got my fingers and toes crossed! I hope he loses his seat in Bennelong, too. Fuckwit.
Oh, and we have Friday Cat Blogging.
For those that missed it last night, I present...
The Quackometer
Run your favourite website through and see if it quacks.
For reference, Deepak Chopra rates 8 canards.
ProfWombat,
I should have remembered that was you. It was so good that I copied it to my computer at work. Spot on.
Poetry of the revolution.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Change a few words and it could've been written yesterday.
Deepak Chopra can deepthroat my cobra.
Aznar, Blair, Howard, Bush. The four stooges of the apocalypse.
Dang... Wizards about to lose to the Warriors.
They'd won six straight after opening the season 0-5 and are still, I believe, suiting up only nine guys at the moment.
Crisco Shortening Now Contains 0 Grams Trans Fat Per Serving
http://www.crisco.com/about/
shor...amstransfat.asp
I've got my fingers and toes crossed! I hope he loses his seat in Bennelong, too. Fuckwit. watertiger
Yeah, your pies could steal a sailor from the sea.
[Stoopit wittus interruptus sheets!]
Deepak Chopra rates 8 canards.
Is that all?
Why must every Bing Crosby Christmas movie feature a minstrelsy number?
.
Martin Short is the modern day Danny Kaye.
Why must every Bing Crosby Christmas movie feature a minstrelsy number?
Question answers itself, dood.
Did I read that the CIA redacted Val's breasts?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to redact hers...
Crisco Shortening Now Contains 0 Grams Trans Fat Per Serving
how large is the "serving". A small enough serving can be pure fat and bill itself as "fat free". Oy.
Martin Short is the modern day Danny Kaye.
Bjorn,a poor young country boi
I liked Danny Kaye when I was a kid.
Used to catch his variety show in Wednesday nights.
There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to redact hers...
As you wish.
.
http://www.crisco.com/about/ shor...amstransfat.asp
Bjorn,a poor young country boi
Interesting -- they've changed it since the last time I used it (it's been a really long time).
I'd still probably prefer lard if I'm not going to use butter, though.
Proper pie crust pastry should be made with butter.
The end.
how large is the "serving".
Enough to generously cover an AG.
Change a few words and it could've been written yesterday.
That's what breaks my heart.
Turning the tables on Al Qaeda: http://www.chicagotribune.com/
se...8641,full.story
An 'Awakening' in Iraq
Men like Abul Abed have helped change the face of the war. Following in the footsteps of the late Abdul-Sattar Abu Risha, the tribal leader who led the Sunni revolt that drove Al Qaeda from the base of its operations in Iraq's Anbar province, more than 70,000 people, most of them Sunnis, in 148 groups have joined in the so-called Awakening, or Sahwa, movement, according to the U.S. military, turning against Al Qaeda and turning to the Americans for help.
Is that all?
aangus
Canadian Homeopathy Association got a full ten little black ducks.
"Deepak Chopra, not as bugfuck looney as homeopaths!"
ON Wednesday nights.
(Fucking keyboard has all the letter and numbers worn off the keys)
Poetry of the revolution.
You won't stop the John Donne of the revolution.
I'm out. Have a good evening, y'all.
I appreciate you so much -- I surely do 
Men like Abul Abed have helped change the face of the war. Following in the footsteps of the late AbZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I'd still probably prefer lard if I'm not going to use butter, though.
V for Virginia
use both.
(Stop reminding me that I'm hungry.)
Turning the tables on Al Qaeda
There's light at the end of the corner market that just got peace bombed!
Oh, crap. It's friday. I guess I should post some kitteh pictures before the plushiots riot.
And res has email.
Are your breasts still covert?" The CIA thinks Plame's are
Yes, on the Daily Show, during Jon Stewart's discussion about Plame's book, Fair Game, we find out that Valerie Plame's breast feeding moments got redacted by CIA.
http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/17...nks-plame-s-
are
You won't stop the John Donne of the revolution.
No man is a rock, no man is a poet of the revolution.
Al Qaida is a Sunni operation.
The Iranians will have nothing to do with it.
Not that the fuckheads of the maladministration have the slightest intention of every understanding this distinction. It's irreleveant to their lust for more money based on blowing brown people to tiny pieces.
My blog has further Bob Woodward blogging, as well as half naked japanese girls...
"Deepak Chopra, not as bugfuck looney as homeopaths!"
Can't tell the difference myself!
A Russian with a Scots burr. I always love this bit.
What I just learned from watching the Discovery Channel: Sheep's eyeballs are very nutrious and are the last parts of rotting carcass that goes bad. Good thing to know if you're trying to survive while stranded in Iceland.
Valerie Plame's breast feeding moments got redacted by CIA.
And people wonder why I drink. Sweet Kali on on croissant. Between Ashcroft covering up Justice's breasts and these assclowns, you'd think that we lived in a patriarchy.
Enough to generously cover an AG.
Not that the fuckheads of the maladministration have the slightest intention of every understanding this distinction.
They don't want to. Al Qaeda has always emanated from Saudi Arabia, and the Bush crime syndicate sure doesn't want anyone one scrutinizing that.
A Russian with a Scots burr. I always love this bit.
Actually, he was Lithuanian.
It's irrelevant to their lust for more money based on blowing brown people to tiny pieces.
Apprentice to Darth Holden
Brown-skinned Muslims all look alike to THEM.
You know....kill 'em all and let dog sort 'em out.
Turning the tables on Al Qaeda
Why the fuck do these shitheads insist on taking a table with them down into the hole they're digging?
Bartendah! Nudder round. My cat doesn't understand me. I have to be unfettered, free to move about. Yes I know I will sit on HER sofa and yes the pillows will be rearranged a bit. And yeah, I flattened out all the good bumps on the cushion.
But, it really is my sofa. Why should I have to endure the long, accusing gaze and looks of betrayal.
Make that next one two fingers eh?
half naked japanese girls...
Yeah, but, the wrong half!
bbl
Want to learn about the Huckster and his ethical problems?
Check this out...
Huckabee is a stone crook. A con man's con man.
Between Ashcroft covering up Justice's breasts and these assclowns, you'd think that we lived in a patriarchy.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Let's not forget their getting their panties in a twist over Janet Jackson's titty.
Aznar, Blair, Howard, Bush. The four stooges of the apocalypse.
puppethead
Howard will probably be out of a job by Monday, happily. Unless he manages to pull off a big recovery.
My blog has further Bob Woodward blogging, as well as half naked japanese girls...
You had me at "wood."
Huckabee is a stone crook. A con man's con man.
billy b - slip kid
http://www.rollingstone.com/
poli...ghtwing_nut_job
Just to make you all smile on I went to the trouble of getting a happy gravthingy. Happy Thanksgiving atriots!
You had me at "wood."
"you'd think that we lived in a patriarchy."
I firmly back a matriarchal society. Better rules, more justice and fresh baked cookies.
I hope the Aussies are smarter than we fucktard Americans and rid themselves of their shithead of government.
Actually, he was Lithuanian.
Ni parl Russki?
I firmly back a matriarchal society. Better rules, more justice and fresh baked cookies.
You sealed the deal with the cookies.
Marc Bolan's androgynous swagger.
"You sealed the deal with the cookies.
Apprentice to Darth Holden "
And before Sally chimes in, 2% milk.
Uh... testing 1, 2, 17
I firmly back a matriarchal society. Better rules, more justice and fresh baked cookies.
Too much guilt slinging. And not enough crotch scratching.
.
Oh, crap. It's friday. I guess I should post some kitteh pictures before the plushiots riot.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U?
Duh.
Uh... testing 1, 2, 17
All primes, right?
20th Century Toy
The Slider
Jeepster
"And not enough crotch scratching.
."
Somethings we can give up I think. In fact, I am sure of it.
Bolan for dollars.
JeffCO
God, he was beautiful (sigh)!
All primes, right?
Apprentice to Darth Holden
chortle.
"This business is getting out of control. It's getting out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it!"
More nutroot-induced hilarity:
At CA Democrat event, nutroot hysterics attempt to force state party to "censure" Dianne Feinstein, prompting longtime state party hack Bob Mulholland to label the nutroots "fringe," "pre-nursing home," and "worse than Bush."
Nutroots: inexhaustible idiocy!!!
Actually, he was Lithuanian.
Ni parl Russki?
He speaks it, but so did all the thrall states like the Baltics. Hell, there's a cool Estonian group called "Avenue" that only sings in Russian even today.
None, however, speak as though their mouths are full of haggis.
Somethings we can give up I think. In fact, I am sure of it.
EkCenTriK
But can you handle "queef" as an everyday word?
I hope the Aussies are smarter than we fucktard Americans and rid themselves of their shithead of government.
Apprentice to Darth Holden
They haven't shown that they are. They re-elected Howard in 2004 to his fourth term.
Absolutely. I forget the opponent to Howard's name, but he's going to ratify Kyoto and pull out of Iraq. Howard annoyed the hell out of me.
Maria Giambutas thesis about matriarchal societies has been shown to be false.
Mark Bolan and Ann Wilson, separated at birth?
Nutroots: inexhaustible idiocy!!!
You're joking, aren't you?
At CA Democrat event, nutroot hysterics attempt to force state party to "censure" Dianne Feinstein,
Good for them. Goddess knows, she needs censuring.
Oh, crap. It's friday. I guess I should post some kitteh pictures before the plushiots riot.
fourlegsgood, gots torch du U? | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 9:32 pm
You just now noticed you haven't posted any for three days?
None, however, speak as though their mouths are full of haggis.
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
Of course not.
They swallow.
Uh... testing 1, 2, 17
All primes, right?
Apprentice to Darth Holden
The next numbers in the sequence should be 19, 43 and ?
None, however, speak as though their mouths are full of haggis.
My father was from Latvia, next door to Lithuania.
He preferred pickled herring.
"Nutroots: inexhaustible idiocy!!!
Lubyanka "
Oh look, another troll who can't get enough attention.
Oh my, eek, it's a troll! I am now terrorized and brow beaten. Whatever shall we do???
That enough for you? Can we return to our normal discourse?
At CA Democrat event, nutroot hysterics attempt to force state party to "censure" Dianne Feinstein,
Good for them. Goddess knows, she needs censuring.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Hell, yeah.
Maria Giambutas thesis about matriarchal societies has been shown to be false.
Not.
Thank you for playing. Stop at the door and pick up your complimentary consolation prize of a lifetime supply of Metamucil.
Well I did it.
A new macbook is winging it's way to Casa de Honey.
Even though it wasn't much of a sale $101 off is better than nuthin'.
Absolutely. I forget the opponent to Howard's name, but he's going to ratify Kyoto and pull out of Iraq.
Kevin Rudd. Or, as the Aussies were saying: "Kevin in Oh-Seven."
Fuck off, jack.
And learn to spell "Marija Gimbutas"
thanks Hecate
euph:
'Star Wars' jumped the shark when self-reference triumphed over humor, and visual genius became an end in itself rather than a means to tell a story.
No, Lucas didn't redeem himself with III. The key event in the entire saga 'til then, the transformation of Anakin into Vader, was utterly unbelievable.
Good for them. Goddess knows, she needs censuring.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 9:43 pm | #
A smart successful woman like that? She's got to be a secret leftie.
The next numbers in the sequence should be 19, 43 and ?
lipreader
Zip up your fly, your Fibonacci is showing.
I wish jack and Dickyanka would meet up someplace and leave us adults alone.
Men like Abul Abed have helped change the face of the war.
He fought against us before, he's been bought off and will "ally" with us as long as it suits his convenience, and when the Americans eventually leave, as we must, all hell will break loose and American Hawk can go back to not giving a shit about Iraq, which he only discovered about five years ago.
There is no plan. There never was. There never will be.
"But can you handle "queef" as an everyday word?
JR, kerosene and a match "
Changing topics...
Hey, that weather is getting a bit nippy out there!
A new macbook is winging it's way to Casa de Honey.
My niece spent the better part of yesterday and today lobbying her parents for a MacBook, because my sister, her boyfriend, and I all have Mac laptops.
Usually at this point someone will point out that Kyoto is woefully inadequate.
I agree, but it's a heck of a lot better than not doing anything, and focuses minds in the right direction.
He speaks it, but so did all the thrall states like the Baltics. Hell, there's a cool Estonian group called "Avenue" that only sings in Russian even today.
None, however, speak as though their mouths are full of haggis.
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 9:42 pm | #
For some reason I thought he was half Lithuanian, half-russian.
Fuck off, jack.
And learn to spell "Marija Gimbutas"
JR, kerosene and a match
He probably copied it from a right wing site.
None of those fuckers can spell.
Zip up your fly, your Fibonacci is showing.
JR, kerosene and a match
Don't harsh my buzz.
I wish jack and Dickyanka would meet up someplace and leave us adults alone.
"They" are already staring at the same computer screen in mom's basement.
Jeepster
Damn you! Now I've got that stuck running 'round my brain! 
http://video.google.ca/videoplay...earch&
plindex=0
I won't feel a success as a liberal until I have my own entry in Conservapedia.
Nutroots: inexhaustible idiocy!!!
Lubyanka
What's the matter Brian? Did you ruin another Thanksgiving dinner at the Hardig House, causing you to have yet another silent, tension-filled ride home with Janet?
None of those fuckers can spell.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
Or pronounce "nuclear".
My niece spent the better part of yesterday and today lobbying her parents for a MacBook, because my sister, her boyfriend, and I all have Mac laptops.
Where is the next installment of Teenage Laurabot?
For some reason I thought he was half Lithuanian, half-russian.
"He's Lithuanian by birth, raised by his paternal grandfather, a fisherman..."
Good evening. We had the most handsome young god for a waiter tonight. I wish I could have taken a picture of him for the times when the thread turns into one all about boobs again.
Where is the next installment of Teenage Laurabot?
I hope she doesn't hold out for the MacBook as part of her contract negotiations.
American Hawk can go back to not giving a shit about Iraq, which he only discovered about five years ago.
I'm betting he can't even pronounce it correctly.
Probably calls it "Eye-rack".
rootless
"smart"
i don't think that word means what you think it means.
Probably calls it "Eye-rack".
Uh... wait. How do y'all pronounce it?
My niece spent the better part of yesterday and today lobbying her parents for a MacBook, because my sister, her boyfriend, and I all have Mac laptops.
Tell them it's a long term investment.
I've had my powerbook for over 6 years.
I've dropped it loads of times. When I was temping it went everywhere with me. I've even burnt it with cigarettes (not on purpose).
I hate to retire it but it really gave more than I had hoped for.
For some reason I thought he was half Lithuanian, half-russian.
"He's Lithuanian by birth, raised by his paternal grandfather, a fisherman..."
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 9:49 pm
I just checked. Don't know why I thought that.
Perhaps I was put off by the Scots burr.
And that Dr. Frank-n-Furter is the sub's doctor.
Probably calls it "Eye-rack".
I HATE that. Puts my teeth on edge when the administratiob does it.
"Ear-ache" ?
"Uh... wait. How do y'all pronounce it?"
Fi-As-Co
Sound it out.
Embattled Oral Roberts president resigns, officials say
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20071...roberts_scandal
TULSA, Okla. - The president of Oral Roberts University facing accusations he misspent school funds to support a lavish lifestyle resigned on Friday, officials said.
Richard Roberts' resignation is effective immediately, according to a statement e-mailed from George Pearsons, chairman of the school's Board of Regents.
Roberts and the university have come under fire since a lawsuit was filed by three former professors last month.
The lawsuit includes allegations of a $39,000 shopping tab at one store for Richard Roberts' wife, Lindsay, a $29,411 Bahamas senior trip on the university jet for one of Roberts' daughters, and a stable of horses for the Roberts children.
Black Friday couldn't have been very black. I had no trouble anywhere. Got a lot done, no crowds.
Fi-As-Co
Ah, yes... like the wicker Chianti bottles.
I wish I could have taken a picture of him for the times when the thread turns into one all about boobs again.
Echidne
According to scientific polls (albeit a small sample), you should just bookmark This one
(Anyone recognize him?)
Probably calls it "Eye-rack".
Uh... wait. How do y'all pronounce it?
SteveLG | 11.23.07 - 9:51 pm | #
Eee-rock, Eee-Rahn, that's how I'm pronouncing them.
Perhaps I'm wrong.
Lindsay likes the younger "men".
"Richard Roberts' resignation is effective immediately"
He just wants to spend more time with his family
in their incredibly lavish mansion.
Whether through stupidity, cowardice, or corruption, the Democrats have allowed the Republicans and insider consultant/pundit class (what Digby and others call “The Village”) to define The Sensible Middle as somewhere to the right of Barry Goldwater. News flash to Democrats: No matter what you do, the 25% who still think Dubya is a great president WILL NEVER VOTE FOR YOU. Please stop pandering to them.
so says eli
and his mom, there is your dimes worth of difference.
Ear rock. Ear ron.
Tell them it's a long term investment.
She has a perfectly good laptop. I was glad the 'rents said "no".
I recommended that if she wants a MacBook that badly, she learn to set aside money for the purchase, instead of expecting her parents to buy it for her.
teach the child that it doesn't grow on trees, fer crissakes.
Probably calls it "Eye-rack".
Uh... wait. How do y'all pronounce it?
SteveLG
I pronounce it "“a-ROCK"
67?
Isn't the Australian election being touted as the first one that is about global warming? Being a denier all these years whilst Australia loses what little fertile lands she has will not endear the surly arrogant howard on voting day methinks.
being so wrong on Iraq? well, him and the rest of the genius neo-cons. fancy themselves a lot me also thinks - Go Labour!
Some call it Mesopotamia.
But they regret the error.
Alright, off to watch some hobbits and a Balrog.
Ee-ROCK.
Probably calls it "Eye-rack".
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
Or maybe "I wreck", ala Junior. (There's a little snickersnort goes with it that I can't spell...)
More from the Roberts story...
Gary Richardson, the attorney for the three professors, said, "those who have seen what we have seen won't have any surprise about the fact that Richard has stepped down." He later said, "There was no option, period."
One of the plaintiffs, John Swails, said Roberts "could have spared the university and the students by going ahead and stepping down and admitting his wrongdoing."
The professors also alleged in their lawsuit that Richard Roberts required students in a government class to work on 2006 mayoral candidate Randi Miller's campaign.
Roberts publicly endorsed Miller, but said then that he was doing so as a private citizen and not as an ORU representative. He has denied the lawsuit's claims that he ordered students to work on Miller's campaign.
Professor Tim Brooker, one of the lawsuit plaintiffs, accused the school of forcing him to quit after he warned Roberts that requiring students to work on Miller's campaign jeopardized ORU's tax-exempt status.
In the weeks since that lawsuit was filed, others have cropped up, including one from a former senior accountant who alleged that the Robertses ordered him to help them hide improper and illegal financial wrongdoing from the authorities and the public.
---------------------
What good Christian values.
Ah watertiger.
I thought the niña had no computer.
You're right.
The terrible drought in some parts of Australia has focused minds on the subject.
Heh heh heh.
The talking cats translated.
iRoc.
And now I'm going to go bank some z's.
Ee-ROCK.
Bless you!
I pronounce it "“a-ROCK"
As in "all I got was..."?
Some call it Mesopotamia.
But they regret the error.
Arkenor - Elite Chatterer
What, Simels busy tonight?
I pronounce it "“a-ROCK"
As in "all I got was..."?
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
Whilst Linus waits for Tim Russert.
Eli must be stopped.
Istanbul, not Constantinople.
yo folk
teach the child that it doesn't grow on trees, fer crissakes.
Well so much for that Ipod I planted. [throws sheaf of papers to ground]
Illegal immigrant rescues boy in desert
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20071...qMUj.3KeIRH2ocA
PHOENIX - A 9-year-old boy looking for help after his mother crashed their van in the southern Arizona desert was rescued by a man entering the U.S. illegally, who stayed with him until help arrived the next day, an official said.
Eli must be stopped.
The Kenosha Kid
What have you got against barrow boys?
"Constantinople."
Why not Varianople?
Why get in a rut?
Question: What is the spelling of that German word that you say when somebody sneezes?
Everything Aussie is upsides down and backwards - the conservatards are the Liberal Party!
A Very Special Paxcast has finally uploaded.
Well, well, well....
This should provide plenty of entertainment for wingnutosphere watchers
"The Supreme Court said Tuesday it will decide whether the District of Columbia can ban handguns, a case that could produce the most in-depth examination of the constitutional right to "keep and bear arms" in nearly 70 years."
I have no problem with Bowery Boys, Dead End Kids, or Little Rascals.
Gesundheit?
not sure. Not German.
Moonbats, tonight pull the warm covers up over your chin under the full November moon. Sweet dreams.
gehsundheit.
I think.
I Feel It All.
A Very Special Paxcast has finally uploaded.
Did Blossom lose her virginity?
Well so much for that Ipod I planted. [throws sheaf of papers to ground]
[pinches JeffCO for his cheekiness]
Sallyh
I am so glad you don't live in Baltimore
Sent chills up my spine.
Illegal immigrant rescues boy in desert
Top story on Michelle Malkin's site.
NOT!
Gesundheit is the German and Yiddish word for health. When a person sneezes, German, Yiddish, and English speakers typically say Gesundheit! to wish them good health, serving much the same purpose as "bless you" in English. The expression arrived in America with early German immigrants, such as the Pennsylvania Dutch, and doubtless passed into local English usage in areas with substantial German-speaking populations.[1] The expression is first widely attested in American English as of 1910, about the time when large numbers of Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazi Jews immigrated to the United States.
Gesundheit?
Ja! Danke!
A Very Special Paxcast has finally uploaded.
Did Blossom lose her virginity?
No, but Linus did. With Six.
Crap, JR.
I've had too many dreams about this to be anything but upset.
Gesundheit?
Vas is dis 'gesundheit'? Der Fuhrer never said 'gesundheit'!
Illegal immigrant EATS boy in desert
Top story on Michelle Malkin's site.
Eli must be stopped.
The Kenosha Kid
What have you got against barrow boys?
Barrow boys, minions of barrow wights?
I've had too many dreams about this to be anything but upset.
Sallyh
you got that alarm system installed, RIGHT?
Everytime I see something like that it makes me twitch.
Probably calls it "Eye-rack".
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
Or maybe "I wreck", ala Junior. (There's a little snickersnort goes with it that I can't spell...)
Elmer, PHD
I like "Fiasco".
No, but Linus did. With Six.
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:05 pm | #
It's Your First Orgasm, Charlie Brown!
Gesundheit is the German and Yiddish word for health.
As a joke, I would say "Krankenheit" to people when they sneezed.
I didn't say it was a funny joke.
With Six.
I thought that there were seven dwarves?
Ooohhhhh!
Never mind!
But don't say danke, or a german fairy dies 
The talking cats translated.
JR: if they try to apply the doctrine of original intent, perhaps they'll say that people can bear arms without government interference, as long as they're front-loading muskets.
JR, alarm system, large barking dog, court appointed visitation monitor...
Doing what we can.
""The Supreme Court said Tuesday it will decide whether the District of Columbia can ban handguns,"
tried to get Pennsylvania to allow some changes to the gun control laws to allow Philadelphia to regulate guns - didn't work.
dammit
Hey Duncan it's really hot when you diss on me, let's get together at the I-76 restroom closest to Philly. I'll pop your man cherry; don't be embarrassed if you want me to wear a condom so you don't get the HIV, I understand.
sallyh: hang in there, love
The E people are correct.
if they try to apply the doctrine of original intent, perhaps they'll say that people can bear arms without government interference, as long as they're front-loading muskets
Naw, it means the independent militia can have battleships, canons, jet planes, and sharks with lasers!
JR, alarm system, large barking dog, court appointed visitation monitor...
I'd get rid of JR, but the other components are good and put my mind at ease.
I always thought Six was more the Pigpen type.
Shit!
An original member of Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band has melanoma and is taking a leave from the singer's "Magic" tour to undergo treatment.
Danny Federici is "one of the pillars of our sound," Springsteen said in a statement Wednesday.
Charles Giordano, who played with Springsteen last year on the "Seeger Sessions Tour," will fill in for Federici.
Fans at Monday's show in Boston had already heard rumors of Federici's illness and chanted his name as he and other band members took their bows, The Star-Ledger of Newark reported.
ProfWombat, I'm willing to bet that the ex and his mother are going to ask for custody on the next court date.
They have that much brass.
Doing what we can.
Sallyh
Well, the alarm is pretty important until you get everything over with. It's just that you never know....
Sorry to be a downer.
I posted some eye candy at 9:53, go look!
A Sullivan | 11.23.07 - 10:08 pm
That is SO fucking pathetic.
JR: if they try to apply the doctrine of original intent, perhaps they'll say that people can bear arms without government interference, as long as they're front-loading muskets.
I'm pretty sure the Framers intended for me to own a laser-sighted fully-automatic rifle, tactical nukes, and futuristic hand-held plasma weapons that have not been invented yet.
It's Your First Orgasm, Charlie Brown!
that is just a whole shopping bag of wrong.
alarm system, large barking dog, court appointed visitation monitor.
Don't forget bison grade (they make these, Quality farm supply in Hamilton MT, can get them for you) cattle fence shock wires around the windows.
I'd get rid of JR,
NTodd
Hey, I've had my shots, and I'm housebroken.
I always thought Six was more the Pigpen type.
No, all the dust takes the curl out of her naturally curlies...
I'm pretty sure the Framers intended for me to own a laser-sighted fully-automatic rifle, tactical nukes, and futuristic hand-held plasma weapons that have not been invented yet.
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
I got a rock.
The Supreme Court said Tuesday it will decide whether the District of Columbia can ban handguns
My speculation is the Roberts court wants to use this to strike down individual gun ownership, clearing the way for private paramilitary forces like Blackwater to become "militias" run by GOP governors and other criminal elements.
Does the universe exist only because we are here to observe it?
Does the universe exist only because we are here to observe it?
euphronius
NO SOLIPSISM!
I'm pretty sure the Framers intended for me to own a laser-sighted fully-automatic rifle, tactical nukes, and futuristic hand-held plasma weapons that have not been invented yet.
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
Only for a well-regulated militia though or are we still forgetting that part?
Does the universe exist only because we are here to observe it?
Mine does, get your own!
Does the universe exist only because we are here to observe it?
I refute euphronius thus...
It's Your First Orgasm, Charlie Brown!
I got my rocks off.
Only for a well-regulated militia though or are we still forgetting that part?
Well, the SCOTUS will weigh in on that in this case, most likely, but I'm still not convinced arms are limited by Amendment II to just well regulated militias and not individuals.
lol, no i was refering to the conscious observer stuff in the qantumm physics.
I'm pretty sure the Framers intended for me to own a laser-sighted fully-automatic rifle, tactical nukes, and futuristic hand-held plasma weapons that have not been invented yet.
There's the rub. If the 2nd Amendment says handguns should be allowed, why can't bazookas or machine guns or the upcoming energy weapons? There was no enumeration of types of "arms" in the 2nd Amendment.
Does the universe exist only because we are here to observe it?
We are actually destroying the universe by observing it.
A good thing that doesn't work with boobies.
I'm pretty sure the Framers intended for me to own a laser-sighted fully-automatic rifle, tactical nukes, and futuristic hand-held plasma weapons that have not been invented yet.
Those weapons are necessary. You never know when private citizens might be required to defend the USA from stampeding hordes of islamofascists when they cross the Canadian border.
Does the universe exist only because we are here to observe it?
euphronius
That would be the anthropic principle. Which is, unfortunately, a tautology; that is, it doesn't answer anything.
In other evidence, Mr Murdoch said Sky News could become "a proper alternative to the BBC" if it acted more like his US Fox News station.
"He stated that the only reason that Sky News was not more like Fox News was that 'nobody at Sky listens to me'," the minutes read.
Erk. Sky is bad enough as it is.
sallyh: there's a school of lawyering that asks for the moon, thinking a piece of it'll be in the offing; nothing ventured, nothing gained, that sort of thing. Everyone accepts it as the cost of doing business. Doesn't sound, fortunately, that the court's too kindly disposed to the Donor's case, nor to his counsel...
Today's simple economics post which tells you why the new conservative meme (Democrats are the party of the rich) is crap:
here
i would just ike to know what electrons are doing when no one is watching
Only for a well-regulated militia though or are we still forgetting that part?
DWD - Recession, Hah!
If "we" includes the current SCOTUS, then the answer is yes.
What's the difference between Hitler's top aides and Bush's top aides?
---
Hint: I have been watching the Nuremberg trials on teevee.
Does the universe exist only because we are here to observe it?
Do not forget Carl Sagan was stoned most of the time.
Does the universe exist only because we are here to observe it?
Personally, I think the Copenhagen interpretation is a bunch of hooey.
What's the difference between Hitler's top aides and Bush's top aides?
Hitler's aides had to testify under oath?
DWD: a well-regulated ANYTHING, in the era of Bushism, isn't on offer...
Henrietta the Hound turns sixteen or seventeen or something inbetween tomorrow. Not a bad age for a pointer mix.
explain the double slit experiment if you think copenhagen is hooey.
What's the difference between Hitler's top aides and Bush's top aides?
George Johnston
Wait, wait, I know this one!
Bush's aides have yet to stand trial.
i would just ike to know what electrons are doing when no one is watching
taking naps
A slice of pumpkin pie to JR. However it is punchier if you say: Hitler's aides agreed to testify under oath.
What's the difference between Vietnam and Iraq?
Bush had a plan to get out of Vietnam.
(Yeah, it's old.)
i would just ike to know what electrons are doing when no one is watching
shopping on QVC.
Not a bad age for a pointer mix.
A slice of pumpkin pie to JR.
George Johnston
*burp*
There's the rub. If the 2nd Amendment says handguns should be allowed, why can't bazookas or machine guns or the upcoming energy weapons? There was no enumeration of types of "arms" in the 2nd Amendment.
Nor is there an enumeration of the types of "speech" in the 1st. Yet we have, as a society (and with the blessing of the SCOTUS), decided that there are reasonable limits on speech (e.g., no yelling "theater" in a crowded fire). So might we not be able to reasonably limit the individual's rights to bear some weapons under the 2nd amendment?
But it does bring up a larger question for me: what weapons do we as a people limit our military to? Should we give the State a monopoly on nuclear arms and other weapons of mass destruction just because they say we need such things to defend the "homeland"?
The only way I can think of the wave/particle duality is to imagine something alternating infinitely fast between the two states.
I don't know if that meets with approval from the community of those who actually understand this stuff, but it works for me.
Adam's answer was also good. Another slice of pumpkin pie...
I'm guessing that the 2nd seemed like a good idea at the time.
Generalissimo Duncan Atrios-Donut, an expert in military strategy, expounds on the U.S. "surge" in Irag:
"What a fucking failure and embarrassment America is!
Decreasing casualties are always a sign of increasing violence in civil wars everywhere!
Any improvement in conditions in Iraq is illusory, and, in any event, the brutish and incompetent U.S. military can take no credit for anything!"
Henrietta the Hound turns sixteen or seventeen or something inbetween tomorrow. Not a bad age for a pointer mix.
Yay, Beemer!
Another secret leftie: Paula Reynolds, CEO Safeco. Last political contribution: $1000 to Michael McGavik, running against Maria Cantwell.
Some context:
"Why did you drink the 151 Bacardi last night?"
"It seemed like a good idea at the time."
I'm guessing that the 2nd seemed like a good idea at the time.
Yes!
The very first time I read - on my own - the words, "A well-regulated militia being necessary. . ." connected to the gun nut's arguments I was flabbergasted. To me the interpretation of that was simple. In English when the first part of the sentence reads, A well-regulated ANYTHING being NECESSARY, it is ALWAYS assumed that the end of the sentence will include WHAT is necessary for the ANYTHING because it is NECESSARY. To extrapolate individual rights where there is NO delineation of these rights seems a terrible stretch of semantics to me.
not FALSELY yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
otherwise, yes, why should 2nd amendment rights be absolute? no other one are. you cant own a nuclear bomb, for example.
Thanks, George. Don't mind if I do.
why can't bazookas or machine guns or the upcoming energy weapons?
Small stuff, I have it on good authority that the second amendment guarantees my right to a nuclear submarine.
I'm guessing that the 2nd seemed like a good idea at the time.
So did the whole thing about quartering soldiers...
But it does bring up a larger question for me: what weapons do we as a people limit our military to? Should we give the State a monopoly on nuclear arms and other weapons of mass destruction just because they say we need such things to defend the "homeland"?
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:20 pm | #
The intent of the second was to allow the states to prevent the Federal government from political overreach. This may not have been a good idea - as shown by the slavers rebellion.
not FALSELY yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
That's what I said.
That would be so cool. I always wanted my own submarine.
But it does bring up a larger question for me: what weapons do we as a people limit our military to?
One of the great mysteries of the pro-gun crowd. They're the ones who seem to want to pour as much tax money into military development as possible. So when government agents show up with the new energy weapons to make everyone have burning skin and vomit and pass out the assault weapons aren't going to be much use.
In the US you have the right to bear arms.
In Ontario you have the right to bare breasts/
Where would you rather live?
The intent of the second was to allow the states to prevent the Federal government from political overreach.
Yes, I'm aware of the history of the time. You might also look at the Virginia constitution, from whence much of our founding document came.
Anyway, my point was the obverse of that: how much do you allow the Federal government to have in its arsenal, particularly when the Framers also didn't like the idea of standing armies...
Of course, killer robots are going to muddy second amendment rights as well... especially if you incorporate the robot.
NTodd: the great irony, of course, is that the precise consituency that doesn't trust the government to deliver mail, provide health care or regulate business has no problem with its operation of ballistic-missile submarines capable of wiping out continents within half an hour of making a mistake.
Where would you rather live?
Is that a trick question?
Is that a trick question?
aangus
That depends on how you feel about witer....
explain the double slit experiment if you think copenhagen is hooey.
It's an interpretation of the results that is based largely on assumption, as such, it's not a true explanation of anything. It does not come out of the mathematics of the theory.
I would like a giant stone-slinger. I could push it around in a pram.
Today's simple economics post which tells you why the new conservative meme (Democrats are the party of the rich) is crap
I don't know if it's "crap," but rather that the argument they're presenting and the one you're countering with are different things.
It's pretty clear that the states with higher incomes and standards of living tend to be the blue states. There's also a considerable amount of wealthy people who vote Democratic - probably much more so in the past. These aren't the same parties they were in the 70s.
One could get a lot more specificity by correlating Census demographic data from specific voting precincts and correlate those with voting patterns. One could also simply poll people and see what their voting preferences are by income.
Buenas noches.
Keep The Car Running.
I would like a giant stone-slinger.
Echidne
Google "trebuchet blueprints"
particularly when the Framers also didn't like the idea of standing armies...
Hush, your not supposed to mention that.
Heh. Novak's doing an online chat for the Wash Post on Monday.
I remember Podhoretz doing one of these earlier in the year and getting really pissed off and nasty at some of the (comletely legitimate) questions they ran. So, it could be fun.
Remember to wear your garlic necklace.
o for fucks sake.
I have to W-A-L-K the dog.
BRB.
can I still get sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads under the Second Amendment?
aangus, that's a very cool gravitar. What does it say?
NTodd: the great irony, of course, is that the precise consituency that doesn't trust the government to deliver mail, provide health care or regulate business has no problem with its operation of ballistic-missile submarines capable of wiping out continents within half an hour of making a mistake.
Indeed, they don't trust the gummint with our money, but they do trust the gummint to execute people; they don't trust the gummint to administer health insurance, but they do trust the gummint to wiretap; they don't trust the gummint to provide for our old age, but they do trust the gummint to count the votes...
Free Advice To Dimocrats And Their Nutroot Fello-Travelers:
Make gun-control a rallying point yet again for the Dimocrat Party!
You can do it!
Econ 102, the pdf link goes to a study which looks at the actual voting data.
The Washington Times article does argue that it is the Democratic voters who are rich. But as I point out in my post, if you use the same rough correlations between the percentage of blacks in a state and whether the state votes mainly Republican or not you would argue that the Republican party is the new party of the minorities.
particularly when the Framers also didn't like the idea of standing armies...
We don't got a standing army, we got them hunkered down in eyeRaq -- The Popular Wartime Pretzelnit
richard, this is what gets me: We could try peeking, to see which hole the photon goes through, and to see if it goes through both holes at once, or if half a photon goes through each hole. When the experiment is carried out, and detectors are placed at the holes to record the passage of electrons through each of the holes, the result is even more bizarre. Imagine an arrangement that records which hole a photon goes through but lets it pass on its way to the detector screen. Now the photons behave like normal, self respecting everyday particles. We always see a photon at one hole or the other, never both at once, and now the pattern that builds up on the detector screen is exactly equivalent to the pattern for bullets, with no trace of interference. As if that was not bad enough, it gets even worse! We do not need place detectors at both holes, we can get the same result by watching just one hole. If a photon passes through a hole that does not have a detector, it not only knows if the other hole is open or not, it knows if the other hole is being observed! If there is no detector at the other hole as well as the one it is passing through, it will produce an interference pattern, otherwise it will act as a particle. When we are watching the holes we can't catch out the photon going through both at once, it will only go through one. When we are not watching it will go through both at the same time! There is no clearer example of the interaction of the observer with the experiment. When we try to look at the spread-out photon wave, it collapses into a definite particle, but when we are not looking it keeps its options open.
That depends on how you feel about winter....
fyt
(click Homepage)
can I still get sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads under the Second Amendment?
No, only ill-tempered chilean sea bass.
the obverse of that: how much do you allow the Federal government to have in its arsenal, particularly when the Framers also didn't like the idea of standing armies
Depends on who the commander in chief might be. In the present case, not much more than the right to be in a jail cell. I wouldn't give him the keys to a broken down smoking mid 70's junker, let alone today's modern weapons.
He's not responsible enough to control much.
DWD: you're right, of course; there'd be no need whatever to mention the well-regulated militias at all were they not central to the raison d'etre of the Second Amendment. The notion that the second clause can be treated independently of the qualifying phrase, which, were you to diagram the sentence, clearly modifies 'infringed', the only verb in the sentence, is wrong on its face.
Akshally, gun-control polls rather well.
The problem is, polls aren't votes.
The American people are pretty sensible, it's too bad they don't all vote.
Or was is Horowitz? Whatever.
According to one federal judge (wingnut Reagan appointee) the key word is "bear" -- submachine guns & bazookas are OK -- tanks or combat airplanes are not (because you can't carry them) -- of course he is an asshole [but his brother was a great guy -- federal judge appointed by Carter -- considered for SCOTUS by Clinton but rejected for health reasons -- correctly, as he is dead now -- ]
Anyway, my point was the obverse of that: how much do you allow the Federal government to have in its arsenal, particularly when the Framers also didn't like the idea of standing armies...
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:24 pm | #
Yeah, well the second amendment fanatics as a political movement have been as consistent to their founding document as evangelical wingers have been to the teaching of christ. However, there was a serious idea behind an armed citizen militia and the Bushians have worked hard to centralize control over and weaken the national guards as much as possible.
Electrons are even more mysterious than cats, which is saying something.
According to Feynman, nobody understands quantum mechanics. People know how to calculate quantum mechanically, but no one really understands why nature works like that. The non-locality proved by experiments on John Bell's theorem is simply beyond weird.
Night, all.
Akshally, gun-control polls rather well.
But who are you going to listen to? The thousands of mothers crying about their lost children or the guy who is strapped?
Thanks for the advice, Lube-eek-anka. We'll certainly give it the consideration it deserves. Please keep those cards and letters coming.
gregg stimac
go to projects, hit recoil.
i've no pony in the show. but it does seem like a weird culture.
Here's CNN's exit poll data from the '06 elections.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006...0/
epolls.0.html
Clearly there's a correlation between income and propensity to vote Republican (which is logical, as people tend to vote their narrow self-interest), but if one looks at exit poll data from 2 years prior, one can see that the trend is towards more parity.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006...0/
epolls.0.html
Things are always shifting. The parties are more opportunistic than predictably ideological.
Whoops - second link is wrong.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004...0/
epolls.0.html
NTodd -- as I said to one Republican, "People who vote for the party that says government doesn't work get what they deserve!" (sadly, if there are enough of them, the rest of us get what THEY deserve!)
As Churchill said, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Speaking of a well regulated militia, did the Founders intend for it to be mired in some distant quag?
of course the South was fanatically all about gun control for years. and then the worm turned, as they say.
"The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine."
Theodore Sturgeon, who also said "90% of anyything is crap."
Things are always shifting. The parties are more opportunistic than predictably ideological.
Who da thunk it!!!
Clearly there's a correlation between income and propensity to vote Republican (which is logical, as people tend to vote their narrow self-interest),
------------
lol, that isnt logical at all.
Prior,
ProfWombat | 11.23.07 - 10:24 pm |
Indeed, government is never bigger than when it is killing someone or knocking down a door in a drug raid at the wrong address.
"The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine."
Theodore Sturgeon, who also said "90% of anyything is crap."
Adam Hominem |
So are the sexual pecadilloes of Republican men.
As Churchill said, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
Prior Aelred
yeah, see NTodd, this is what i said down below. i'm well aware that i'm too ignorant to vote. and trust me, i'm much more aware than your average voter.
Indeed, government is never bigger than when it is killing someone or knocking down a door in a drug raid at the wrong address.
kei & yuri, electronicperforme | 11.23.07 - 10:34 pm | #
-----------
like in brazil a uniquely brilliant movie.
Clearly there's a correlation between the willingness to abuse people's trust for a buck and propensity to vote Republican
Fixed your typo
(From BartCop)
The 25%, folks. To stupid to live.
I'm betting HE isn't over in Iraq.
--------------------------------
"Subject: i love bush
You can kiss my ass. I love bush and reagan. I'll kick you in your bush fag. Get a life.
You have nothing better to do but talk shit. If any other fag like you was in there, you would have let 911 go and made the whole country look like pussies. He had the balls to do something. Fuck you bitch ass fag.
Andrew Deans
=================================
I'm curious - how could you kick me in my "bush fag?" I don't own a "bush fag," so how you going to kick me there?"
So are the sexual pecadilloes of Republican men.
DWD - Recession, Hah!
Pecadillo's is a nice word for it. I prefer "crimes".
One way to interpret the average state income correlation with voting Democratic is that the rich are more likely to vote Republican in general, but that the rich in poorer states are much, much more likely to vote Republican. As someone better informed in this area put it, it's class war on state level.
"The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine."
Thought that was Arthur C. Clarke.
Let me check.
Doug: you point out the precise, necessary, essential reason why it shouldn't be dependent on who the commander in chief is. If the presidency can't be restricted to superbly competent, compassionate, intelligent, infallible human beings--and Bush has certainly demonstrated this by counterexample--then the presidency should not be trusted with weapons that can destroy continents.
I would like very much to hear the Democrats running for president point out the dangers of unchecked and unbalanced presidential power, in addition to educating me about the wisdom of entrusting them with it...
According to one federal judge (wingnut Reagan appointee) the key word is "bear" -- submachine guns & bazookas are OK -- tanks or combat airplanes are not (because you can't carry them)
So what about frickin' lasers?
richard, this is what gets me:
Look, the mathematics of the theory gives you that result. The difficulty is in the interpretation of what that result actually means. The idea for example, that things only come into existence when they are observed is only one interpretation. There are others, the many world's interpretation, Bohm's interpretation (which uses particles moving according to quantum fields), and so on. There is no particular reason to pick one over the other.
I wonder what part of Iraq Andrew Deans is writing from.
The notion that the second clause can be treated independently of the qualifying phrase, which, were you to diagram the sentence, clearly modifies 'infringed', the only verb in the sentence, is wrong on its face.
I don't think it's wrong on its face. The Framers argued a lot about phraseology, and it's certainly possible they made a mistake. They clearly did on larger issues such as the 3/5 compromise, so why would we expect them to get grammar correct in a way we'd interpret today?
Further, the document was basically a bastardization of a variety of State constitutions, including Virginia's, which says:
"That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free State."
When you consider that militias were essentially raised from self-armed citizens, it becomes more likely that the right to bear arms was individual, and that the constitution is affirming that right as well as the rights of the states to raise such militias to defend against Federal encroachments.
"i would just ike to know what electrons are doing when no one is watching
shopping on QVC."
no one can be certain.
Look, the mathematics of the theory gives you that result. The difficulty is in the interpretation of what that result actually means. The idea for example, that things only come into existence when they are observed is only one interpretation. There are others, the many world's interpretation, Bohm's interpretation (which uses particles moving according to quantum fields), and so on. There is no particular reason to pick one over the other.
Richard | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:36 pm | #
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well, um, that makes sense and is a coherent response and um. . . ill go read some more.
Hi aangus!
Fr Wm went to Chicago last time -- I will try to give you a heads up if he heads toward Montreal!
BTW -- someone (at Fr Jake's) said that Celine Dion is Anglican! I realize that she doesn't have 15 kids, but I have seen her husband, so there is a possible explanation besides birth control, but I assumed that she was (at least theoretically) RC -- do you know about this?
(FWIW, John Updike is an Episcopalian - like Molly Ivins -- except that he is not dead ... yet)
As Churchill said, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
That is not a good argument against democracy. That is the naked, pure, anti-human snobbery of Winston the Playboy oozing out from behind the symbols of respectability. In fact the best argument against democracy is its delicacy.
"When you consider that militias were essentially raised from self-armed citizens, it becomes more likely that the right to bear arms was individual,"
i dunno. i thought the arms were provided by the gvt, as they are now....
Churchill was a right-wing opportunist.
Ahhhh!
Though sometimes attributed to Eddington without citation, this seems to be derived from a statement by J. B. S. Haldane, in Possible Worlds and Other Papers (1927), p. 286: The Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.
Variants: The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.
The world is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/
Art...anley_Eddington
regardless of the 2nd amendment, any gun control laws would still be bound y the 14th amendemet: ie, it is doubtful gov could ban guns entirely without a really good reason.
BTW -- someone (at Fr Jake's) said that Celine Dion is Anglican!
You are welcome to join the tribe of wandering Jews.
Bjorn,a poor young country boi --
Aren't you supposed to use "finger quotes" when you say "lasers"?
Indeed, government is never bigger than when it is killing someone or knocking down a door in a drug raid at the wrong address.
There are people who relish the need for Hobbe's Leviathan protecting society against brown people while bitterly complaining about the cost of public education and regulations.
no one can be certain.
Would Schrödinger have done cat blogging?
@Echidne
"Econ 102, the pdf link goes to a study which looks at the actual voting data."
Sorry, I should have followed that before launching a comment. I'll look at it in a minute.
"The Washington Times article does argue that it is the Democratic voters who are rich. But as I point out in my post, if you use the same rough correlations between the percentage of blacks in a state and whether the state votes mainly Republican or not you would argue that the Republican party is the new party of the minorities."
Hm. Well, clearly that's not the case, though among non-African American minorities, the GOP does surprisingly well, though they seem to have lost ground between '04 and '06. Take a look at the exit poll data. Bush definitely picked up minority votes from '00 to '04.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004...0/
epolls.0.html
But you're right that the basic logic is flawed, since "rich" people are far outnumbered by "non-rich" people, so that it's entirely possible that they could vote heavily Republican yet still live in heavily Democratic areas. Precinct-level voting data would sort of clarify that, but not entirely.
yeah i thought there was armories which hed the guns in common?
Henrietta the Hound turns sixteen or seventeen or something inbetween tomorrow. Not a bad age for a pointer mix.
Echidne
My Boston Terrier turned 3 today.
Our old Papillon/Sheltie/Terrier mix is almost 18.
"3. 1. 5."
When you consider that militias were essentially raised from self-armed citizens
War is very different now and there is basically nothing you can do but die playing that game. If you try to use basic hunting and outdoorsmanshipnessosity against any modern competently trained infantry formation -- let alone a well equipped one -- they'll show you what they learned in the few centuries between then and now.
fuck who votes for who. republican poicy favors the riches 0.1%. democratic policy favors the richest 80%.
outdoorsmanshipnessosity against any modern competently trained infantry formation -- let alone a well equipped one -- they'll show you what they learned in the few centuries between then and now.
kei & yuri, electronicperforme
Seems to me I've heard, too, that revolutions succeed when the govt. troops lay down their arms. Not when they are all killed by the insurgents.
k & y -- Well the famous quotation from Winston Churchill is, "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried," so I liked finding something from a different perspective.
WC was totally moronic about the expedition against the Bosphorus, but I liked his line, "History will be kind to me because I intend to write it."
War is very different now and there is basically nothing you can do but die playing that game. If you try to use basic hunting and outdoorsmanshipnessosity against any modern competently trained infantry formation -- let alone a well equipped one -- they'll show you what they learned in the few centuries between then and now.
kei & yuri, electronicperforme | 11.23.07 - 10:42 pm | #
-------
they'll call in an air strike or hit you with mortar fire from 3 miles away and thats that.
"Indeed, government is never bigger than when it is killing someone or knocking down a door in a drug raid at the wrong address."
people always argue that the right to bear arms was a way to keep gvt at bay. but how many are successful at keeping the cops from bursting in the wrong address by having a gun? how often do they demonstrate with them when their liberties are being eroded?
"fuck who votes for who."
ditto
If we accept that citizens who might be called upon to protect the republic from the encroachment of Federal powers or outside forces have the need to have weapons, because they are members of a well-regulated militia, doesn't that, by its very nature preclude anyone who is NOT a member of a well-regulated militia from enjoying the same privilege?
Not trying to be argumentative but applying current conditions to laws written to address problems that were current at the time seems nonsensical. Certainly we can try to ascertain what the founders thought: and I think that the beginning of the sentence states this CLEARLY. A WELL-REGULATED MILITIA. . . if you try to take that beyond that you are building an argument predicated on wisps of thought and wishes. (But it has worked remarkably well - sigh)
According to this site, Celine Dion is Catholic.
http://www.adherents.com/
largeco...m_catholic.html
(Scroll way down)
"History will be kind to me because I intend to write it."
Prior Aelred
And he did, too.
i dunno. i thought the arms were provided by the gvt, as they are now....
Colonial militias did have arms caches, which the British attempted to seize at times, but so did the individual militia members.
Regardless, it makes no sense that in the midst of a string of individual rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights, where the State isn't mentioned as having rights until the end, that this amendment would make a big deal about granting the states a right to a militia without also assuring the rights of the people to bear arms.
What's more, neither the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights precludes the rights of the individual to be armed. You want penumbra, bitches? There's the 9th for ya...
Isn't it possible that the bit about the militias was very much based on events that had just passed then and that the Founding Fathers had no idea what they unleashed on this country?
I realize that she doesn't have 15 kids, but I have seen her husband
I assumed that she was (at least theoretically) RC
I would also think that more than likely. but, have no interest in researching it.
If you try to use basic hunting and outdoorsmanshipnessosity against any modern competently trained infantry formation -- let alone a well equipped one -- they'll show you what they learned in the few centuries between then and now.
John Rambo took down a sheriff's department, a SWAT team, and Brian Dennehy all by himself using only outdoorsmanshipnessosity.
Are we not all in favor of the right to arm bears?
spinoza, non ridere, non luger | 11.23.07 - 10:40 pm
That's among the biggest problems with libtards. There's an extent to which they are merely ignorant, refusing to learn essential history but wanting people to be amazed at their little pedantic grasp of utterly theoretical economics, and then there's their purely puerile style, ... and then there's the fact that a lot of them are just basically open racists, like that guy on the Daily Show who couldn't understand why anyone wold have trouble with distributing cigarettes and toy guns in a black neighborhood.
Would Schrödinger have done cat blogging?
The Schrödinger's cat thing came as a result of his objections to the Copenhagen interpretation...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch...%B6dinger'
s_cat
Schrödinger's cat is an imaginary experiment — a thought experiment — devised by Erwin Schrödinger, which is often described as a paradox. It attempts to illustrate what he saw as the problems of the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics when it is applied to systems large enough to be seen with the naked eye, and not just to atomic or subatomic systems.
It is accepted that a subatomic particle can exist in a superposition of states, a combination of possible states. According to the Copenhagen Interpretation, the superposition only settles into a definite state upon observation. This is known as collapse or measurement.
Schrödinger proposed his "cat", after a suggestion of Albert Einstein's. Schrödinger states that if a scenario existed where a cat's state of life or death could be made dependent on the state of a subatomic particle, and also isolated from any possible observation, the state of the cat itself would be a quantum superposition — according to the Copenhagen interpretation, at least.
Schrödinger did not wish to promote the idea of dead-and-alive cats as a serious possibility. Rather he believed the "absurd" conclusion indicated a flawed assumption.
The thought experiment serves to illustrate the strangeness of quantum mechanics and the mathematics necessary to describe quantum states. It is widely accepted that particles can exist in a superposition of possible states. Large objects appear not to. When, how and whether any barrier is crossed between a microscopic quantum world of superposed particles and a macroscopic world of large, non-superposed objects is one of the major interpretational problems of quantum mechanics. Several interpretations of quantum mechanics have been put forward in an attempt to resolve the paradox. How they treat it is often used as a way of illustrating and comparing their particular features, strengths and weaknesses.
What's more, neither the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights precludes the rights of the individual to be armed. You want penumbra, bitches? There's the 9th for ya...
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:45 pm | #
--------------------------
exactly. that and the 14th amendment.
NTodd: I don't subscribe to Founder hagiography, in part because I don't see the 3/5 provision as a mistake from their point of view at the time. And I suppose one could argue your way. One could, though, seems to me, argue conversely, by saying that Virginia's law, and the Second Amendment, supply a necessary legitimacy to the fait accompli of an armed citizenry, and, absent that legitimacy, a compelling state interest could be found sufficient to limit individual ownership of weapons.
Echidne, thanks for that study. Looks good. Interesting to see the difference between Mississippi and Connecticut and the slopes of their respective curves. I've suspected that sort of thing before - that areas where there's huge race/income segregation that the rich are going to hold onto voting Republican more so than in a more broadly wealthy place.
The Kenosha Kid | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:45 pm |
A terrible example. Rambo was a highly trained, elite, decorated, veteran infantryman who found excellent materials.
I would also think that more than likely. but, have no interest in researching it.
Especially since I just found out that she was born within a 20 minute drive from where I live!
I assumed that she was (at least theoretically) RC
I would also think that more than likely. but, have no interest in researching it.
aangus
She's Catholic, and supposedly the hubby has some Syrian ancestry.
Fer crap's sake...
If we accept that citizens who might be called upon to protect the republic from the encroachment of Federal powers or outside forces have the need to have weapons, because they are members of a well-regulated militia, doesn't that, by its very nature preclude anyone who is NOT a member of a well-regulated militia from enjoying the same privilege?
I see no reason why an individual's right would be precluded, unless you believe the Constitution is a document that only grants rights that are enumerated, which from where I sit is antithetical to the document's intent. It was designed to enumerate specific powers of the government, denying it anything not explicitly spelled out, and reserving everything else to the people.
arent there catholics in syria too?
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
What does the individual right to bear arms have to do with a "well regulated militia"? And doesn't "people" apply in the plural sense?
If you try to use basic hunting and outdoorsmanshipnessosity against any modern competently trained infantry formation -- let alone a well equipped one -- they'll show you what they learned in the few centuries between then and now.
Well if you use the tactics of hunting, this is true, but if you have the guts to bleed and run when needed, and use the tactics of insurrection, an asymmetric conflict can tie down a modern military as long as you want.
Isn't it possible that the bit about the militias was very much based on events that had just passed then and that the Founding Fathers had no idea what they unleashed on this country?
Echidne | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:45 pm | #
Well, that's why the Slaver Rebellion is a key point against the 2cd.
But I agree with Scalia: the key method is to find the preferred outcome and reason backwards from there.
arent there catholics in syria too?
euphronius
Oh, yeah. But I don't think they're Roman Catholic. They may be Maronites, like in Lebanon.
a compelling state interest could be found sufficient to limit individual ownership of weapons.
If we accept that the State, in whatever form, is dangerous, then the People would have the right to rebel. One way to do that is via arms.
But that Thomas Jefferson was a crank and prolly didn't really mean a little revolution now and then was a good thing...
But I agree with Scalia: the key method is to find the preferred outcome and reason backwards from there.
rootless-e
Or we could just go duck hunting...
What does the individual right to bear arms have to do with a "well regulated militia"? And doesn't "people" apply in the plural sense?
Bjorn,a poor young country boi
All good questions, certain to be neither considered nor answered by the zealots on the Court.
It was designed to enumerate specific powers of the government...
How is the right of free speech and association a power of the government?
"lol, that isnt logical at all."
If my narrow self-interest is defined as short-term economic benefit, then if one has a high income, one will tend to vote on the basis of who keeps my taxes the lowest. Most people are selfish, short-sighted, and cynical, so the way they vote doesn't surprise me. I'm not happy with it, but I understand it.
But that Thomas Jefferson was a crank and prolly didn't really mean a little revolution now and then was a good thing...
That's treason! Unless you're talking about the Clenis, of course.
A terrible example. Rambo was a highly trained, elite, decorated, veteran infantryman who found excellent materials.
kei & yuri, electronicperforme | 11.23.07 - 10:47 pm | #
Dude, he was fictional.
Or we could just go duck hunting...
I'm gonna train ducks into a well-managed militia and come after you.
arent there catholics in syria too?
euphronius
Some. I think most Christians there are Orthodox.
an asymmetric conflict can tie down a modern military as long as you want.
Doug | 11.23.07 - 10:49 pm |
No it cannot. That becomes a question for the conventional military in terms of how evil they are willing to become. Indonesia was not Vietnam because Indonesia went the route of Stalin. Lawrence was very blunt in stipulating the things the Turks could've done to stop the Arab harassments, and they were almost all things the Turks could not or would not have done. One was a system of interlocking, mutually supportive forts.
@Echidne
"One way to interpret the average state income correlation with voting Democratic is that the rich are more likely to vote Republican in general, but that the rich in poorer states are much, much more likely to vote Republican. As someone better informed in this area put it, it's class war on state level."
Exactly. Sorry I'm having trouble keeping up with the comments and saying things out of turn.
If my narrow self-interest is defined as short-term economic benefit, then if one has a high income, one will tend to vote on the basis of who keeps my taxes the lowest. Most people are selfish, short-sighted, and cynical, so the way they vote doesn't surprise me. I'm not happy with it, but I understand it.
Econ 102 | 11.23.07 - 10:51 pm | #
------------
yes. but it isnt logical. higher taxes = more prosperity in the context of today. our taxes are too low. also, the deficit is a huge problem. oh well, i get your drift though, and i agree many people think that way.
Ducks can be cute. These god-damned Canadian geese, on the other hand...
If I might chime in, seems like the SCt would better spend its time deciding that the right to declare war is the exclusive responsibility of Congress...
Variants: The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.
The world is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.
I prefer the Douglas Adams variant.: "There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
I'm gonna train ducks into a well-managed militia and come after you.
Echidne | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:52 pm | #
If they shoot at me I'll duck.
Gun Control?
I have no problem with people having guns for hunting. I do have a problem with people having weapons whose only purpose is to kill other people. If you are worried about someone breaking into your house, I doubt you will find a better weapon that a 12 gage shotgun with pellets. Why do you think you need a Glock? Or an AK 47? or an Uzi? Or a .55 Rifle with Armor Piercing rounds?
I think that having a reasonable approach to the regulation of weapons would go a long ways toward ending the needless and senseless killing that goes on in our society.
Well, Valerie Plame is an Episcopalisn (scroll WAY down)
http://www.adherents.com/
largeco...m_anglican.html
'If my narrow self-interest is defined as short-term economic benefit, then if one has a high income, one will tend to vote on the basis of who keeps my taxes the lowest.'
The act of definition alluded to here is highly non-trivial. It is an ideological assumption. There are ample counterexamples.
Dude, he was fictional.
Which fictional wingnut hero would win in a fight, Rambo or Jack Bauer?
Dude, he was fictional.
rootless-e | 11.23.07 - 10:52 pm |
Granting temporarily that he wasn't, dude, he still would not contradict the superiority of infantry tactics to say the Ruby Ridge family and their stockpile of consumer firearms.
"Which fictional wingnut hero would win in a fight, Rambo or Jack Bauer?"
Rambo
Which fictional wingnut hero would win in a fight, Rambo or Jack Bauer?
puppethead
Chuck Norris would wipe the pavement with both of them.
but honestly, though, i have a hard time envisioning the American armed forces invading the USA.
maybe that will change - and it appears to be.
Dude, he was fictional.
Which fictional wingnut hero would win in a fight, Rambo or Jack Bauer?
puppethead | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:54 pm | #
I think this calls for a large scale trial using wingers.
but honestly, though, i have a hard time envisioning the American armed forces invading the USA.
maybe that will change - and it appears to be.
coughblackwatercough
Democracy's great if people are well-informed and capable of voting for the sake of the common good. We are a long way from that ideal and seem to be regressing.
This is good news:
"In a dramatic offer, the government of Guyana has said it is willing to place its entire standing forest under the control of a British-led, international body in return for a bilateral deal with the UK that would secure development aid and the technical assistance needed to make the change to a green economy."http://environment.independent.co.uk/
climate_change/article3191500.ece
Okay, they were once a British colony, but I'm trying to imagine any other country making us that offer.
coughblackwatercough
Echidne | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 10:56 pm | #
ayup.
Why do you think you need a Glock? Or an AK 47? or an Uzi? Or a .55 Rifle with Armor Piercing rounds?
Because it gives them stiffies.
Honey Bear: thanks for the music. First time I heard those guys & they're great!!!
wiki has a great writeup on the 2nd.
""To keep and bear arms"
The meanings of the terms "keep" and "bear" are integral to the debate and much of the amendment jurisprudence relies on such interpretations.
Relative to the "bear arms" meanings, an extensive study found "...that the overwhelming preponderance of usage of 300 examples of the 'bear arms' expression in public discourse in early America was in an unambiguous, explicitly military context in a figurative (and euphemistic) sense to stand for military service".[39] Further, the Oxford English Dictionary on Historical Principles declares that a meaning of "to bear arms" is a figurative usage meaning "to serve as a soldier, do military service, fight"."
it would be nice to get politicians who would even reference "the common good" in a speech.
Seriously considering some Calvados in the baby's bottle.
"Which fictional wingnut hero would win in a fight, Rambo or Jack Bauer?"
Rambo
Unless the body oil Rambo was wearing conducted a fatal amount of electricity from Jack Bauer's "persuasion" electrodes.
maybe that will change - and it appears to be.
coughblackwatercough
Echidne
Whats for sure, is that once the brave/foolhardy had tried a fair fight and been wiped out, the remnants of sane America would end up looking a whole lot like an insurgency. Asymetrical warfare is just about all you can do if you don't want to die on day 1.
Wow. The greater Twin Cities contingent is here tonight.
a question for the conventional military in terms of how evil they are willing to become
If the insurgents refuse to quit, it leaves the occupying force the choice of;
staying and bleeding,
abandoning the conflict,
or genocide.
Seriously considering some Calvados in the baby's bottle.
Sallyh, Grandmere Poissonniere
Benadryl, I understand can work wonders.
What is Jack Bauer's super power again? He's a sexual deviant who cannot come without physically hurting another human being against their will? Gotta go with the half-German half-Cherokee.
Which fictional wingnut hero would win in a fight, Rambo or Jack Bauer?
puppethead
Chuck Norris would wipe the pavement with both of them.
Adam Hominem
I have a friend who is a "real life Rambo" of sorts. We were actually going to do a book about his experiences in "Nam. He wrote and asked permission: he was denied.
He spent his three years in country mostly in North VietNam with a small group of Montegnard Tribesman serving as a forward bombing spotter. (He was Green Beret assigned to CIA)
Nice guy: what he had to do finally did him in. He had to leave his job on a medical and spends his time at the local VA Hospital. He never wanted to kill anyone. . . .
Okay, they were once a British colony, but I'm trying to imagine any other country making us that offer.
noblejoanie
I hope we take them up on their offer. Could be great for everyone.
fighting "fair" lol. i love "asymetric" warfare. kick the imperial forces in the nuts, i say.
Maronites ARE Roman Catholics (just not Latin Rite -- in fact, they are the ONLY Eastern Rite for which there is no non-RC equivalent) -- Syria is the more Christian friendly state in the Middle East -- refugees from all over the area have ended up there -- Nestorians & Monophysites & Orthodox & Eastern Rite RCs all flee to Syria for protection -- rather ironic, really, but there it is
Guns make everyone safer, right? That's why they issue sidearms to everyone who boars an airplane (OK -- that might happen after the next SCOTUS decision)
If the insurgents refuse to quit, it leaves the occupying force the choice of;
staying and bleeding,
abandoning the conflict,
or genocide.
Doug | 11.23.07 - 10:59 pm | #
that french movie shows this choice powerful. the battle for algiers?
Why do you think you need a Glock? Or an AK 47? or an Uzi? Or a .55 Rifle with Armor Piercing rounds?
Deer in Oregon are now wearing kevlar.
Would I make up something like this?
There have been no fatalities involving free speech zones yet. Perhaps Bush will get Blackwater involved.
"yes. but it isnt logical. higher taxes = more prosperity in the context of today. our taxes are too low. also, the deficit is a huge problem. oh well, i get your drift though, and i agree many people think that way."
More prosperity for everyone but less momentary prosperity for a given individual of high income. The whole US tax system is a travesty at this point, the degree of regressivity. Plus nowadays people are getting what amount to privatized taxes in the form of higher energy, medical, food, and educational prices - all of which are much more punitive the lower one's income is.
The influence of people like Norquist in conditioning people to inane notions like "tax and spend," "no new taxes," "death tax," and the like really has made rational discussion of fiscal policy very difficult.
jdw,
Good post
Another hot piece on the environment (and Al Gore will be there):
"A discovery that could give the world access to vast quantities of energy with minimal damage to the climate will be shown off for the
first time at a glittering gathering of the famous, rich and influential next Friday night....
Mr Kramer, who was 23 in 1979 when he conceptualised the technology
that led to the creation of the first MP3 player, refused to give specific details of the new discovery, or to name the inventor, so as
to maintain the element of surprise for Friday. But he indicated that it is a breakthrough in micro-technology, and that British scientists
who have tested it are convinced that it will work.
"This is something ... that's the accumulation of almost a decade of work," he said. "It's a new science, a Super Material. It would be 80
per cent cheaper than any alternative means of production, and it will contribute in a major way to reducing climate change....
http://
environment.independent.c...icle3191512.ece
It was designed to enumerate specific powers of the government...
How is the right of free speech and association a power of the government?
It isn't. The Constitution's essential design itself, I'll note, specifies the State's powers, not those of the People. That's why some agitated for a Bill of Rights, but as Hamilton observed, doing so was redundant and possibly dangerous because now you have to spell out every right the People do have, and any admission that there's a relationship between individual rights and the State would allow for an argument about regulation and restriction of those rights by the State. In other words, he was fucking prescient since we now debate how much speech is reasonable, whether individuals have rights to bear arms, etc.
Well, good for her:
Clinton digs in on toxic toys after China's 'slander' charge
"This is the same government that just this month revoked the licenses of more than 750 of its toy companies because of quality control problems and ordered another 690 to renovate or improve their facilities, even as it asserted that 99 percent of toy exports met quality standards," Clinton said in her statement.
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/
Cli...r_11232007.html
econ102, so you are saying SHORT term short term thinking.
There have been no fatalities involving free speech zones yet.
George Johnston
As long as we seem to have constitutional scholars aboard, I've always wondered just where in the Constitution those appear.
it would be nice to get politicians who would even reference "the common good" in a speech.
In my latest podcast, Teddy Roosevelt does. Actually, I guess so does FDR...
Isn't the whole of the USA supposed to be a Free Speech zone?
time place and manner restrictions on non-traditional places of protest are constitutional sez scotus.
"it would be nice to get politicians who would even reference "the common good" in a speech."
Toxic right-wing media have made people associate such notions with communism. Though it's ironic when Bush uses it, they don't seem to take notice.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%
...Awhitehouse.gov
How are 860 Al Quada holding 300 M Americans hostage?
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/200...a-exaggeration/
"the common good" or "commonwealth" are conceptions too rare in our "I've got mine, fuck you!" society (is "society" even the right word? Margaret Thatcher didn't think so.)
Although we would seem to be theoretically more opposed to having a standing army than the Limeys, the only reason they can have an army at all is that Parliament has to pass the Mutiny Act every year (if they "Belgiumed" it would rally be a mess)
that 99 percent of toy exports met quality standards," Clinton said in her statement.
Bjorn,a poor young country boi
Even if true, the remaining 1% could still be a shitload of toys, of course.
"Isn't the whole of the USA supposed to be a Free Speech zone?"
Hippie
non-traditional places of protest are constitutional sez scotus.
euphronius
"Non-traditional" apparently includes anywhere the POTUS is.
Interesting definition of "non-traditional".
Even if true, the remaining 1% could still be a shitload of toys, of course.
Adam Hominem | 11.23.07 - 11:06 pm | #
You mean those Lil' Princess Lead-y toothbrushes?
OK -- "rally" was supposed to be "really" of course -- & good night!
Although we would seem to be theoretically more opposed to having a standing army than the Limeys, the only reason they can have an army at all is that Parliament has to pass the Mutiny Act every year (if they "Belgiumed" it would rally be a mess)
Prior Aelred
I'm not familiar with that. Do you have a link?
We spend 2.5% of GDP on defense. Our army is really pretty small compared with a lot of places.
"Non-traditional" apparently includes anywhere the POTUS is.
Interesting definition of "non-traditional".
Adam Hominem | 11.23.07 - 11:07 pm | #
well, they pretty much say streets, parks and some governemnt property are traditional fora.
You mean those Lil' Princess Lead-y toothbrushes?
Bjorn,a poor young country boi
The Chinese know they have too much lead in China, so they are shipping it all here a little bit at a time. They're a wily people, I tells ya.
who is "we" for you Arkenor?
We spend 2.5% of GDP on defense.
As long as you don't count those off budget "supplementals" to fund Pretzelcoatl's quagmire.
euphronius | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 11:09 pm | #
420!
We, for me, is the UK.
B.O.H.I.C.A!
.
I clearly don't mention Britain often enough. I shall try harder!
We, for me, is the UK.
Arkenor - Elite Chatterer | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 11:10 pm | #
you have a nice navy.
"econ102, so you are saying SHORT term short term thinking."
I'm just telling you what I see the logic to be for a lot of people, and I've definitely observed my contemporaries change their voting preferences as their income increases.
"Isn't the whole of the USA supposed to be a Free Speech zone?"
Oh, really, that's so pre-twenty first century!
euphronius: you have a nice navy.
Be a pity of somethin' was to... uh, happen to it.
.
We spend 2.5% of GDP on defense. Our army is really pretty small compared with a lot of places.
Arkenor - Elite Chatterer
Bush just signed a 500 billion defense appropriation. Comparing it as a percentage to GDP is a little misleading. It's a lot of money.
"you have a nice navy."
ah yes - the Royal Navy. England expects that every man will do his duty.
The Chinese know they have too much lead in China, so they are shipping it all here a little bit at a time. They're a wily people, I tells ya.
Adam Hominem | 11.23.07 - 11:09 pm | #
And they're requiring our interest payments to be denominated in potable water and cheerleaders.
you have a nice navy.
euphronius
It is quite nice. Comes in jolly handy too. We're spending a silly amount of money building a couple of new aircraft carriers.
The navy is quite a big part of Britains traditions. Maritime nation and all that. It does try to make itself useful for disaster relief and things though.
alright folks, it's been fun spot reading your ascii's and clicking your links and pretending i'm part of the conversation. have a nice navy
There is no cannabilism in the ROyal Navy!
.
I've definitely observed my contemporaries change their voting preferences as their income increases.
I haven't.
Bush just signed a 500 billion defense appropriation. Comparing it as a percentage to GDP is a little misleading. It's a lot of money.
Adam Hominem
I was referring to the UK. To call the US's military small would take slightly more insanity than I'm prepared to admit to
assuming a bunch of things, aircraft carriers are worth the money. Churchill would approve.
"Rum, buggery, and the lash."
What are the things that made the Royal Navy great, Alex?
There is no cannabilism in the ROyal Navy!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 11:14 pm | #
Well perhaps we can have Jenkins here cold for breakfast.
Sorry arkenor. Bit UScentric of me.
The richest districts elect dems.
i didnt know other countries had the internets.
assuming a bunch of things, aircraft carriers are worth the money. Churchill would approve.
euphronius
Theres certainly worse things to spend the defence budget on. Having a damn big mobile base is all sorts of useful for lots of things. Not all of which are incredibly evil.
My little calculator shows 500,000,000, 000 / 12,416,505,085,952
is 4%. That, of course, doesn't include the hundreds of billions for Iraq or the debt service for borrowing to pay for $500 toilet seats or getting mired in Iraq. It also doesn't include the deferred costs of medical benefits for those injured for live for Bush's vainglorious war.
"Rum, sodomy, and the lash."
fyt
i didnt know other countries had the internets.
euphronius
I did, but I forgot.
the fact that richest districts vote for dems is secondary to the fact that the best educated districts vote for dems.
voting democratic is LOGICAL if you are poor or rich. voting GOP is never logical.
free speech zones
Is this going to be done again in the 08 elections?
I'm going to have to do something about it.
the us spent over 1 trillion on "defense" last year.
i didnt know other countries had the internets.
They do, but the difference is that theirs are made of trucks, not of tubes like in the Good Ole US of A.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Lis...of_armed_forces
We're at 29th
I'm going to have to do something about it.
Please, do!
Doug: I'm going to have to do something about it.
I'm shooting random wingnuts as fast as I can. Maybe I need a speed-loader.
.
the us spent over 1 trillion on "defense" last year.
Can you itemize that?
I'm going to have to do something about it.
Doug
I'm thinking a big water balloon slingshot.
Won't you please come to St. Paul
For the help we can bring
We can change the world -
Re-arrange the world
It's dying - to get better
assuming a bunch of things, aircraft carriers are worth the money.
Such as the idea that they and the force they carry, can hold an enemy at a distance that it can not hurt the carrier fleet.
The Chinese sub that popped up in the middle of a US Navy exercise, says we no longer can do this.
free speech zones
Is this going to be done again in the 08 elections?
I'm going to have to do something about it.
I plan on violating them as much as possible, particularly at the Democratic National Convention.
assuming a bunch of things, aircraft carriers are worth the money. Churchill would approve.
euphronius
Theres certainly worse things to spend the defence budget on. Having a
damn big mobile base is all sorts of useful for lots of things. Not all
of which are incredibly evil.
It is the most efficient way to deliver 4K johns to the local bordello.
Anyhows, I don't want a big military. Just one thats large enough, well trained enough, and well equiped enough to stop people giving us jip.
voting GOP is never logical.
euphronius | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 11:19 pm | #
Well to fair, it is if you're a homophobic, evolution and holocaust denyin' primative warlike shithole.
the us spent over 1 trillion on "defense" last year.
Can you itemize that?
$490 billion for Carlyle Group companies
$500 billion for Halliburton companies
$10 billion for "incidentals"
The Chinese sub that popped up in the middle of a US Navy exercise, says we no longer can do this.
Doug
Thought I had heard that the life expectancy of an aircraft carrier in full-fledged combat is about 4 minutes.
The Chinese sub that popped up in the middle of a US Navy exercise, says we no longer can do this.
They cheated. They ran silent and ran deep.
the us spent over 1 trillion on "defense" last year.
Because they knew that at 1.1 trillion, the voters start getting pissed.
That 1 trillion could have been used to create a new american ruling class.
$490 billion for Carlyle Group companies
$500 billion for Halliburton companies
$10 billion for "incidentals"
Does incidentals include hammers and toilet seats?
thats awesome by the chinese. i love shit like that.
The Chinese sub that popped up in the middle of a US Navy exercise, came up just in time for budget hearings
Fixed your typo.
I plan on violating them as much as possible, particularly at the Democratic National Convention.
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
Where are they holding that? I should know, but I don't.
If you want to join me and some friends in St. Paul for the Republican Convention, I have a spare room.
We could discuss planets viewed from a distance.
They cheated. They ran silent and ran deep.
For fiddy cent, ya can haz at the tastee freeze.
Does incidentals include hammers and toilet seats?
Bien sur!
We could discuss planets viewed from a distance.
No flirting!
Do you know what I'm doing during the RNC convention?
I don't. That's why I asked...
Oh, really, that's so pre-twenty first century!
aangus | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 11:12 pm | #
Pre 9/11
We could discuss planets viewed from a distance.
From Earth, the rings around Uranus appear cold and dry.
Where are they holding that? I should know, but I don't.
Denver. I hope the altitude won't make it hard for me to not resist arrest.
If you want to join me and some friends in St. Paul for the Republican Convention, I have a spare room.
You might regret that offer. But I might hold out for Zappette's Vegan Lasagna...
"My little calculator shows 500,000,000, 000 / 12,416,505,085,952
is 4%."
Q3 GDP came in at around $13.9 trillion, not $12.4 trillion.
http://bea.gov/national/nipaweb/...r=2007&
Freq=Qtr
National defense, under national income reporting, is 4.8% of GDP. That's up from 3.8% in Q4 of 2000.
http://bea.gov/national/nipaweb/...r=2007&
Freq=Qtr
Estimated outlays for the current fiscal year (200
are estimated to be $607 billion.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/bu...sheets/
27_1.xls
Add in another $200 billion or so for "supplemental" requests (war funding), and that comes to around $800 billion.
Divide that by Q2 GDP, which should be around $14.3 trillion, and it comes to 5.6% with supplementals included, 4.2% without.
You might regret that offer. But I might hold out for Zappette's Vegan Lasagna...
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
I wouldn't regret it. But I'd go for the lasagna, too.
I'll probably be still eating leftover turkey.
Pre 9/11
Did I forget the snark tags?
'Scuise me!!!
Do you know what I'm doing during the RNC convention?
Mocking Republicans?
Divide that by Q2 GDP, which should be around $14.3 trillion, and it comes to 5.6% with supplementals included, 4.2% without.
Econ 102
So the 2.5% talking point is no longer operative?
Where are they holding that? I should know, but I don't.
Denver.
As unanswerable as why Denver is always on Monday Night Football.
But I might hold out for Zappette's Vegan Lasagna...
NO FLIRTING WITH MY WIFE, MF'ER!!
The UK spends over L33B/year on military (excluding pensions.) Not small change. In addition, the UK is one of the largest exporters of arms in the world.
http://www.mod.uk/
DefenceInterne...nceSpending.htm
So the 2.5% talking point is no longer operative?
George Johnston
2.5 is the UK!!!
On the Cowon music player right now;
Oliver Mtukudzi - Tuku Music 1999
I've been listening to African, Cuban, and Brazilian pop, rap, trance and dance music this evening. It's been good.
Mocking Republicans?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/20...n-black-friday/
If you want to join me and some friends in St. Paul for the Republican Convention, I have a spare room.
We could discuss planets viewed from a distance.
Adam Hominem
I'm committed to heading up with copies of the Constitution and Bill of Rights - just to read them to the wingerz and see how long it takes one of 'em to snap and assault me (DAMN RIGHT I'LL PRESS CHARGES)!
Zap and Adam - are you guys game for this stratergy?
NO FLIRTING WITH MY WIFE, MF'ER!!
I just want her to feed me. You can keep the tofu turkey baster.
"The Chinese sub that popped up in the middle of a US Navy exercise, came up just in time for budget hearings"
The real threat is if the sub hull is covered in leaded paint.
Divide that by Q2 GDP, which should be around $14.3 trillion, and it comes to 5.6% with supplementals included, 4.2% without.
Econ 102
The fuck does GDP have to do with it? It's all borrowed money.
So without Halliburton and Carlyle Group overcharges then it could be 2.5%...
"So the 2.5% talking point is no longer operative?"
If someone is making that claim, they are mistaken, yes.
What is the tab now, 9 trillion? And countries actually lend us money?!
Evening, all.
Been gone for a while.
Have I missed anything irksome?
Oh, and BTW...saw the Dylan movie.
Woo hoo!!
Zap and Adam - are you guys game for this stratergy?
Roadmaster, Milwaukee Office
My plan was to exercise my free speech rights. Don't care how.
Thoreau was once in jail for failing to support the Mexican American war. He was visited by Emerson, who asked him why he was there. Thoreau asked Emerson why he (Emerson) wasn't.
I think anyone who isn't jailed at the Rep Convention better have a good excuse.
I just want her to feed me. You can keep the tofu turkey baster.
Hmmm. I'll run it by the Missus.
What is the tab now, 9 trillion? And countries actually lend us money?!
MP
Land makes for good collateral. Just ask the real estate industry.
good job econ 102, but you forgot to add in interest on all the borrowed monies, veterans welfare, and nuclear weapons spending (DOE). that'll add a few nother 100 billion
Oh, and BTW...saw the Dylan movie.
Woo hoo!!
steve simels
Any good?
Shrub: By paying down the national debt when I first ran for office, I meant doubling it.
I misspoke.
Eritrea's out of control.
http://www.nationmaster.com/grap...enditure-of-
gdp
What is the tab now, 9 trillion? And countries actually lend us money?!
MP
Someone wiser than me once said, if you borrow a thousand dollars, and can't pay it back, you have a problem. You borrow a billion and can't pay it back, the bank has a problem.
Which is why they are switching to Euros as the preferred medium for international exchange as fast as they can.
What is the tab now, 9 trillion? And countries actually lend us money?!
We're totally good for it. We've got this can't-fail scheme to win at craps...
The navy is quite a big part of Britains traditions. Maritime nation and all that. It does try to make itself useful for disaster relief and things though.
Arkenor - Elite Chatterer | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 11:13 pm | #
The UK is a nuclear armed nation with a +100K standing army, a discretionary military budget in the neighborhood of 70billion $US/year, and is a naval power with deployments around the world - including in Persian gulf.
We've got this can't-fail scheme to win at craps...
NTodd, Boxer-Briefed
Double or nothing!
sheets
Have I missed anything irksome?
Oh, and BTW...saw the Dylan movie.
Woo hoo!!
steve simels | Homepage | 11.23.07 - 11:36 pm | #
You've missed an explanation that Hillary will govern to the left of both her positions while running and her legislative record, because all smart successful women are secret leftists.
Which is why they are switching to Euros as the preferred medium for international exchange as fast as they can.
Adam Hominem
The United States is gonna need its Dad to co-sign, if this shit keeps up.
The UK is a nuclear armed nation with a +100K standing army, a discretionary military budget in the neighborhood of 70billion $US/year, and is a naval power with deployments around the world - including in Persian gulf.
Yeah, but they couldn't beat Croatia...
What is the tab now, 9 trillion? And countries actually lend us money?!
MP
China lends us a ton. We buy a ton of cheap crap from them with it. No connection, though, I'm sure...
You've missed an explanation that Hillary will govern to the left of both her positions while running and her legislative record, because all smart successful women are secret leftists.
rootless-e | 11.23.07 - 11:42 pm | #
To paraphrase Lady Brett from THE SUN ALSO RISES...
Wouldn't it be pretty to think so...
"What is the tab now, 9 trillion? And countries actually lend us money?!"
A little over $9.1 trillion. $5.1 trillion of that is held by the public, the remaining $4 trillion is intergovernmental.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP...?
application=np
Foreign holders own about half of the privately-held debt.
http://www.fms.treas.gov/bulleti.../b2007-
3ofs.doc
Japan, China, and the UK are the three biggest holders of foreign-owned debt.
http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
Oh, and BTW...saw the Dylan movie.
Saw it this afternoon, and found it fucking amazing...I'd be STUNNED if you didn't concur...
"good job econ 102, but you forgot to add in interest on all the borrowed monies, veterans welfare, and nuclear weapons spending (DOE). that'll add a few nother 100 billion"
The DOE number is in there. You're right that $46 billion in military retirement isn't in that number, and about $8 billion in DoD Medicare isn't either.
Interest is going to apply to any expenditure - hard to put a clear dollar amount on it, but you're correct in pointing out that it's not insignificant.
And John Howard is handed his arse by the electorate.
About time - Now we have a modern government - not one that's trying to recreate Howard's idea of 1950s America.
Hope this rubs off in the presidential election.
Bush's Final Year: "Small Ball" v. Small Balls
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