I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Hear hear!
sad.
I thought Obama was a constitutional lawyer. What is wrong with him?
Yup. Sad but true.
DOOOOOOOOOMED!
he has earned the award
This concerns me.
McCain/Lieberman '08!
To be fair -- Hillary would have done no different.
Which is really sad.
he wants to send out a signal that there won't be too much change.
How dare thou blaspheme against he who is called the Obama.
Snark about believing in something or other.
Keep showing me those snorg girls and I'll be wanker of the day.
To be fair -- Hillary would have done no different.
Which is really sad.
Hesiod
Yep.
Obama did say he would fight to take telecom immunity out of the Bill, though.
But the only way that will happen is if a credible filibuster threat is made.
That ain't gonna happen.
To be fair -- Hillary would have done no different.
I guess Obama's not so inexperienced* now. He's working from the inside already, doing the bidding of corporations.
*secret decoder ring word for "corporate outsider"
the big media companies are also phone providers these days.
My "phone company" these days is Charter. Some people have Time-Warner.
I suspect this was a big sloppy kiss to the press.
dead-threaded!
Trying to recreate his heroism in the Vietnam War, Senator McCain today parachuted into a rice paddy in Iowa. Unfortunately for the senator, the recreation was more true to life than he expected when local Iowans began to pummel him and scream obscenities at him.
Like I said. Grow some balls.
Fuck you, Obama.
And Hesiod, I agree with you.
politics as usual. ok enough of this shit. i now shall remove the "O" from my name & popout my "O" key.
i'm out .
mestiz
What Dems voted against? I just got in. Is there a site?
Hold your feet to the fire by withholding our $$?? 'Yes, we can!'
Of course he stands to benefit from it eventually ...
Well of course the next president wants the expanded powers W has assumed for himself. That's a given. It's our job to see that he doesn't get them.
politics as usual. ok enough of this shit. i now shall remove the "O" from my name & popout my "O" key.
i'm out .
mestiz
mestiz
Cute.
I guess Obama's not so inexperienced* now. He's working from the inside already
It's very Kerryesque.
They'll still call you a liberal Barack.
Then again, maybe this is Obama's way of driving up Bob Barr's vote totals.
I'm concerned, very concerned.
I don't quite understand how retroactive immunity, on the basis of Chimpy telling the telecoms that hsi request is legal, will withstand judicial review.
I guess today is not going to be Barack Obama day.
Even B. Hussein Obama is more patriotic than the nutroots, and he's about as far left as you can get without worshipping Che Guevara. When the far left fringe thinks you're too fringe-y, it's seriously time to reconsider your life choices. As it stands, the liberal blogosphere is opposed to listening in on terrorist conversations, under the theory that Achmed and Mohammed deserve privacy more than children deserve not to be blown up in homicide bombings.
Goddamnit.
He lost me with his first sentence: "Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before they strike"
Lies. The "global war on terror" is all lies. The original FISA law was fine. They knew 9/11 was going to happen, they caught it. But the Bush cabal chose to let it happen.
I kind of understand his not taking too strong a stand. Why waste the political capital for a lost cause. However, since he's been transforming the Democratic Party into the Obama Party, he really has to take some responsibility.
Holden,
Did you see the poem I wrote you a few threads down?
Search for "Suck it."
You're making me angry, Senator Obama. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
This is the end of the GOP. Obama is in it to win, and with this statement, he takes the wind out of the GOP's sails.
Kirsten Gillibrand ( my old NY district) voted for the FISA bill. I presume this is an attempt to get re-elected in a shitty repug district. But John Hall (my rep!) voted nay.
Every politician right now has thought out the potential of another attack, and doesn't want McSame or the administration to be able to point to any kind of obstruction of the preznit's ability to respond between now and the election. They would use it to say we are soft on terra.
Cute Vicki.
One nice thing about being lukewarm on both Dem candidates is that I'm catastrophically depressed by their failures to uphold the law, instead of being suicidally depressed.
Craptacular.
Haw haw! McAnus, who isn't smart enough to know what due process means, will defeat that there Balak Osama! Haaaawwww! And then John will bring a new time of, err, uhhh, I don't know. Wait. Killin' terrizts! That's the ticket!
Like I said. Grow some balls.
Fuck you, Obama.
And Hesiod, I agree with you.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore | 06.20.08 - 4:12 pm | #
hello "centrism"
They'll still call you a liberal Barack.
Twice as often and twice as loud.
res-
I'm always searching for suck it.
Now I'll go look.
Thanks for sharing, American Hawk. We care.
Fuck it, I'm voting for Bob Barr!
You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown.
house.gov should have the result.
Triangulation. Bleeech.
Now that's leadership!
I hope at least when he becomes preznit he'll use these powers to spy on wingnuts.
Achmed and Mohammed deserve privacy more than children deserve not to be blown up in homicide bombings.
American Hawk | 06.20.08 - 4:15 pm | #
Bush has blown up more children than any other terrorist. He's the world's #1 terrorist, and will be hunted for the rest of his life. I cheer for the hunters.
I really hate it when Ralph Nader is right.
I am waiting for the press release from Kodos.
the non wanker part...
"It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect America Act." - obama
What Dems voted against? I just got in. Is there a site?
To be fair -- Hillary would have done no different.
Which is really sad.
You should check out the <a href="http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/6/
20/14581/9154">105 Capitulators</a> over at Booman Tribune.
Nita Lowey, Eliot Engels and the rest? Go fuck yourselves.
Lies. The "global war on terror" is all lies. The original FISA law was fine. They knew 9/11 was going to happen, they caught it. But the Bush cabal chose to let it happen.
puppethead | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:15 pm | #
yep
What the hell does a Constitutional lawyer do anymore?
Like Mr. Whipple, they just stand there squeezing the Charmin...
I hope at least when he becomes preznit he'll use these powers to spy on wingnuts.
R. McGeddon
I don't. I hope he shows more character than that.
He lost me with his first sentence: "Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before they strike"
They already had that, you fucking asshole. And they compromised their own goddamn ability to gather intelligence by filing Arabic translators for being fags. Among other things.
Wake me up when this bullshit is over...preferably after airlifting me to Mars.
ah, fuck.
Booman Tribune.
When will Dems learn that you can't appease playground bullies?
It just makes them bully you even more...
What I learned from this comment thread:
-- America let 9/11 happen
-- America is a terrorist nation
-- Terrorist rights trump citizen rights.
Who says the left is out of touch??
Firing, I mean.
I hope at least when he becomes preznit he'll use these powers to spy on wingnuts.
R. McGeddon | 06.20.08 - 4:17 pm | #
oh, he will, and we will be better off for it.
Hesiod | 06.20.08 - 4:17 pm |
I didn't mean it, really.
It's almost summer, so Barry O gets raspberries from me. Not like he'd do everything we'd ever want during his quest for the shiny, but it would be nice if the 4th Amendment was something more than a chewtoy to these wankers.
Nita Lowey, Eliot Engels and the rest? Go fuck yourselves.
Hey, your guy (Nadler) did the right thing. So did mine.
They already had that, you fucking asshole. And they compromised their own goddamn ability to gather intelligence by filing Arabic translators for being fags. Among other things.
Wake me up when this bullshit is over...preferably after airlifting me to Mars.
Phila, Phila Sarpint |
File under F?
yo yo you -- yes to puppethead:
The original FISA law was fine. They knew 9/11 was going to happen, they caught it. But the Bush cabal chose to let it happen.
obama makes me sad.
who will filibuster this thing and force Dem cowards to vote with Gooper tories to destroy the Constitution and cover up for Bush?
At least Dems in the days of Nixon, didnt cover up for his crimes.
The Booman Tribune has been bought out by Haloscan?
atrios is all over nader now.
Holden,
Did you see the poem I wrote you a few threads down?
Search for "Suck it."
res ipsa loquitur
Found it.
I was wondering if anyone would get my "Nantucket" joke.
However, since he's been transforming the Democratic Party into the Obama Party, he really has to take some responsibility.
The time is now. Jeezus.
We desperately need a leader in this country. I can make phone calls, write letters, and all of that, but I'm powerless if it falls on deaf ears.
Maybe I was hoping too much that he'd proactively assume a leadership position.
What would happen to Obama if he would just walked up to Bush and punched him in the face?
LANDSLIDE!!!!!!
Prawned by WT again.
Overheard at an anti-FISA rally:
You had me at "Hell no!"
He lost me with his first sentence: "Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before they strike"
mccain could have said this.
Who says the left is out of touch??
American Hawk | 06.20.08 - 4:18 pm | #
You're just upset because the left is exposing the right's treason and incompetence, as well as your hatred of the Constitution. Too bad.
Wow. A WOTD already. Re: non-wanker part, I wonder how he hopes to get the retro-immunity part excluded.
What I learned from this comment thread:
reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?
Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of warrantless surveillance will be over ... making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard the civil liberties of the American people... It does, however, grant retroactive immunity,
[raises hand]
yes, dirk?
um, what exactly was the compromise? i mean, was the competing proposal that bush be allowed to continue illegal surveillance? and, um, doesn't this actually make it clear that the president CAN get away with circumventing the law and disregarding civil liberties? and how can FISA be "restored" if it was never taken away? oh, and one more thing ...
sorry, dirk, your time is up. does anyone else have a question?
Aw, how sad.
Unamerican Chickenshit obviously has reading comprehension issues.
I know I'm an optimist, so I could be viewed as naive for wanting to wait to see if Obama, Feingold, Leahy, and Dodd can actually strip immunity. S'pose not, but...
And American Hawk, go back to your cage.
Hey, your guy (Nadler) did the right thing. So did mine.
"Nad"ler.
I hope...really hope...that it is his intent to turn this weapon on the repugs and teach the conservatards that swords cut two ways.
Not like he'd do everything we'd ever want during his quest for the shiny,
You can't expect everything you want, but Christ on a Nicorette patch, some balls would help.
No point voting. No point registering to vote. Just going to emigrate to the free fucking world.
I owe Old Man From Scene 24 an insult-the-troll-with-the-truth coke.
Thanks plantsman, the first time I tried, it knocked me offline. Whatever that other post is, well, haloscum ate the rest of it.
I wonder how he hopes to get the retro-immunity part excluded.
Senate version.
Though doubtful.
h, he will, and we will be better off for it.
ronjazz
No. No. No.
It is just plain out wrong, no matter who does it.
So who's gonna call Obama's office? Camp out in it, even?
The dude is actually going to be the next President.
Moar Powr!
Want!
I wonder how he hopes to get the retro-immunity part excluded.
there will be an amendment proposed to strip immunity from the Senate version of the bill which he'll vote for.
mccain could have said this.
pretzelattack | 06.20.08 - 4:20 pm | #
"you will, oscar. you will."
What is so burdensome about having to have a legal reason for keeping somebody locked indefinitely? Couldn't they just deny them bail or something, you know, commonplace and easy to do?
The Failed Barack Obama Presidency ....
Maybe I was hoping too much that he'd proactively assume a leadership position.
Vicki, Who ? Al Gore | 06.20.08 - 4:19 pm | #
can't you wait until he's the leader? Jesus, everybody bitches that Dems don't win, then the guy plays every card just right for the win, and everybody screams. Take it easy, folks, he can fix a lot of this shit once he's in office. alienating voters besides the few of us that know what's going on is playing for the loss.
Ronjazz-- B. Hussein Obama was a constitutional law lecturer at one of the finest law schools in the nation, and even he admits this is constitutional. Try again. If this went to SCOTUS, it would likely be 7-2 with Stevens and Breyer as the lone moonbats.
why didn't we all vote for kucinch again?
oh, that's right.
he's short.
No point voting. No point registering to vote. Just going to emigrate to the free fucking world.
fuck you too | 06.20.08 - 4:21 pm | #
I'd avoid Sweden.
I actually don't thing its such a bad move.
Flame away.
Senate version.
Though doubtful.
Exactly. I doubt it's possible.
Booman: ...or represents New York's metro region (and therefore might fear getting blamed for a terror attack).
Emphasis on "metro." All of the House reps from Manhattan (Nadler, Rangel, or Maloney) -- you know, where the attack actually occurred -- voted "Nay."
time for scotch, rocks, and 4th amendment on mars, bitches. join me in my biodiesel spacecraft, won't you?
I need to find out how to emigrate to New Zealand.
I just assured the good Senator that it will be some time before he sees any of my (admittedly paltry) donations again. I hope some others will do the same.
I owe Old Man From Scene 24 an insult-the-troll-with-the-truth coke.
Its Friday afternoon, make it a beer and we can split it.
My rep, Lloyd Doggett, voeted No on FISA. As did the majority of House Dems.
I'm not a soccer expert, but the ESPN guys are making it sound like Turkey has a special ed student playing goalie.
Yet it's scoreless.
I mean think its such a bad move.
can't you wait until he's the leader?
he is the leader. well, the presumptive leader. as presidential nominee, he sets the direction for the party.
"-- George W. Bush let 9/11 happen
-- George W. Bush is a terrorist
-- George W. Bush's rights trump citizen rights."
Fixe yer typos Hawkshit...
can't you wait until he's the leader? Jesus, everybody bitches that Dems don't win, then the guy plays every card just right for the win, and everybody screams. Take it easy, folks, he can fix a lot of this shit once he's in office. alienating voters besides the few of us that know what's going on is playing for the loss.
This seems correct to me.
it would likely be 7-2 with Stevens and Breyer as the lone moonbats.
American Hawk | 06.20.08 - 4:22 pm | #
do you know who appointed them, idiot?
I need to find out how to emigrate to New Zealand.
I'm going there in December. I'll let you know.
Libertarian champion of the consitution Ron Paul did not vote on FISA.
Wankeriffic.
breaking news from american sparrow--reagan was a moonbat!
Its Friday afternoon, make it a beer and we can split it.
The Old Man From Scene 24
See, Congress? THAT's how you compromise!
I hope...really hope...that it is his intent to turn this weapon on the repugs and teach the conservatards that swords cut two ways.
Revenant | 06.20.08 - 4:20 pm | # [kill][hide comment]
Jesus, what's going on here today? Hesiod is right...this "turnabout is fair play" bullshit is a one-way trip to Hell. And we'll get there long before the GOP does. We'll break their fall, at best.
If Obama won't honor the fucking Constitution, he's no better than Bush.
"Lloyd Doggett" is an excellent name.
why didn't we all vote for kucinch again?
Because I endorsed him.
watertiger, Sec.Foot2Face | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:23 pm
Lucky stiff. Are you planning to come back?
I hope some others will do the same.
Nope. Sorry. I'm disappointed, but at least he will try and get the immunity stripped from the bill. He's still getting turkee from me.
Get the guy elected first.
Yes, he's a wanker. But that's one of those wanks that will help him get elected.
"Libertarian champion of the consitution Ron Paul did not vote on FISA."
Another Republican piss ant coward...
Change, my ass.
New Zealand probably has a web site that explains how to immigrate. I mean, you'll have to find someone that can read New Zealandese, but still.
Dems gotta win.
can't you wait until he's the leader?
How about showing some actual leadership so I can cast my vote in faith?
I need to find out how to emigrate to New Zealand.
I'm going there in December. I'll let you know.
watertiger
I may go to the New Applebees next week.
Change your own ass.
Heh...more soccer play by play:
Our commentators are saying the heat might have something to do with the poor game. Apparently the temperature is still in 80s. Well woop-de-doo.
There's only been one 0-0 draw in the competition so far, but Turkey are doing their best to register another one.
Arda goes down but gets a look of disdain from the ref, and half of Europe.
Boring.
A cracking run from Modric results in a threaded pass through for Olic, who had chosen that precise moment to turn his back on the play. Idiot.
Now this is change I can believe in.
American Hawk | 06.20.08 - 4:22 pm | #
SCOTUS is a terrorist organization, as antiAmerican as the GOP. I don't give a shit what SCOTUS thinks, any more than I give a shit what you think, asshole. Your hatred for America puts you in the terrorist camp.
He's still getting turkee from me.
Me, too. But I might write 'im a little letter.
Everybody makes mistakes, and Stevens/Beyer are two conservatives have to own. It happens in issues both prominent and obscure; their dissent in Picadilly v. Florida Dep't of Revenue (released last Monday) was hilariously bad. If they weren't old enough that the icy scythe of death was going to come get them soon enough, it'd be worth impeaching them.
"Lloyd Doggett" is an excellent name.
res ipsa loquitur
His wife is Libby.
Lloyd and Libby Doggett.
I can understand why he did it, but it still makes me sick.
"How about showing some actual leadership so I can cast my vote in faith?
"
WORD!!!!
I think this whole thing plays very well for Rudy Giuliani.
Today's funny legal case of the day:
Failure to warn of dangerous propensities of ram in mating season - Plaintiff butted in knees - Suffers meniscal tear
And "Dangerous Propensities of Ram" would be a good album name, I think.
nixon appointed stevens and clinton appointed breyer, just to be clear.
Yes, he's a wanker. But that's one of those wanks that will help him get elected.
Gromit
Yep. Still feel the need to vent though.
Jesus, everybody bitches that Dems don't win, then the guy plays every card just right for the win, and everybody screams.
Yep.
I've gotten fed up with Dems wearing bright red coats and marching in straight lines.
American Hawk and his ilk fail to realize the honorable thing is to face death and die in defense of your principles.
I, personally, would rather have Americans die and live up to the Constitution, then vice versa.
Give me liberty, or give me death.
why didn't we all vote for kucinch again?
Because I was a chickenshit and thought at least Edwards could get elected.
Now I stand in the line-up beside the rest of the Eschatonians, bending over while the Dems tell me to, "pretend you like it."
What else I learned from this thread: Lefties think the SUPREME COURT is a terrorist organization. Ahhh, it must be nice to have such rational discourse.
but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives - and the liberty - of the American people
translation: trust me. what choice do you have?
[hey, it worked for bush]
there will be an amendment proposed to strip immunity from the Senate version of the bill which he'll vote for.
The Old Man From Scene 24 | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:21 pm | #
you get the picture...
He's still getting turkee from me.
Me, too. But I might write 'im a little letter.
Maybe every day?
Try this:
www.immigration.govt.nz/
To hell with the democrats.
We need a revolution.
if a dem had violated the constitution and had telco's do illegal wiretapping, the Goopers would not have given him a pass.
they would have played hardball.
if you dont believe it, just ask James Baker and read or watch what he did during the 2000 REcount.
they play to win and when they are out of power they talk bipartisanship. when they are in, they screw bipartisanship.
Under Hastert, a bill that did not have the backing of half of the Goopers would not have gotten a vote on the floor.
Pelosi and Hoyer are losers and get gamed by the Goopers day in and day out.
why didn't we all vote for kucinch again?
oh, that's right.
he's short.
dirk
if mcpain were a couple inches shorter, obama would vote against fisa.
obama folds like a cheap camera, just another punk. federal election committee should investigate to see if negros are sending in their welfare checks to his campaign. that is federal money and shouldnt help his campaign. thats our tax dollars
I can understand why he did it, but it still makes me sick.
Lumpenprolitariot
I can't even understand why he did it. In poll after poll the vast majority of Americans a) oppose warrantless wiretapping, and b) oppose retroactive immunity.
Shelly Berkley voted for it. Disappointed but can't say I'm surprised.
Croatia have a corner! Low and behold!
Srna's corner is poor, but he gets another chance.
His second corner is equally rubbish. Rubbish rubbish rubbish.
Gravatarnixon appointed stevens and clinton appointed breyer, just to be clear.
Stevens was appointed by Ford. In both cases, conservatives didn't do enough to stop it.
at least he will try and get the immunity stripped
if he was serious about that' he'd have withheld his support, as leverage. this is purely CYA, and weak CYA at that.
It's a done deal. It's not changing.
American Hawk,
I bet your legal resume is every bit as impressive as your financial expertise.
racist much, sonny?
Better right-wing illiterates, please.
I can't even understand why he did it. In poll after poll the vast majority of Americans a) oppose warrantless wiretapping, and b) oppose retroactive immunity.
What he said.
Maybe he just did it to get res to write him a letter.
Lefties think the SUPREME COURT is a terrorist organization.
Oddly, we supported their decision about Gitmo. How about you?
Yeah, disappointing.
American Hawk | 06.20.08 - 4:22 pm | #
SCOTUS is a terrorist organization, as antiAmerican as the GOP. I don't give a shit what SCOTUS thinks, any more than I give a shit what you think, asshole. Your hatred for America puts you in the terrorist camp.
ronjazz
Hang 'im high!
Yes, he's a wanker. But that's one of those wanks that will help him get elected.
Gromit |
great. just what we need.
another wanker in the oval office.
I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity...
Past tense, eh, Barry? Fuck...
obama folds like a cheap camera, just another punk. federal election committee should investigate to see if negros are sending in their welfare checks to his campaign. that is federal money and shouldnt help his campaign. thats our tax dollars
sonny ablaza | 06.20.08 - 4:27 pm | #
Seig heil to you too, buddy!
im off the obama wagon. i suppose ill vote for the dem in november.
And I might add that we're gearing up for the general election. Now's the time that people start studying this shit. If this were February, it might be a little different - just a little, and only in that it wouldn't get as much exposure.
Jesus, everybody bitches that Dems don't win, then the guy plays every card just right for the win, and everybody screams.
Is there any reason Obama shouldn't receive letters and calls expressing disappointment? 'Cause I can't think of any. Might even do some good.
Seems to me like it'd be much worse to glue your mouth shut in hopes that he's just setting things up to govern to the left. Why shouldn't he get feedback during the campaign?
fickle, fickle, fickle...
Well...
At least Joe Klein is happy.
No co-inkydink this is Friday afternoon.
How about showing some actual leadership so I can cast my vote in faith?
Vicki, Who ? Al Gore | 06.20.08 - 4:25 pm | #
How about playing a winning hand, instead of going down in flames for an ideal? He is powerless to do anything about how the House votes, in the first place. Since the Bush terror cabal is going to force the issue, how about putting a guy into office that won't use and abuse this horrendous law? Given what's going on, do you want a lying, thieving sociopath like mcCain to exercise these powers?
American Hawk,
Since you obviously hate America and everything that makes her great -- freedom, tolerance, the rule of law, due process, checks and balances -- why don't you just get the fuck out and let the REAL Americans take care of her?
Just shows to go you that you don't have to be a Clinton to do something unprincipled.
Is there any reason Obama shouldn't receive letters and calls expressing disappointment? 'Cause I can't think of any. Might even do some good.
I'll write a letter. I also think withholding turkee for a little while is appropriate, just to get the point across.
translation: trust me. what choice do you have?
[hey, it worked for bush]
dirk gently
yep.
So nobody's gonna go to DC and impress upon Obama the need to fight this?
Best. WOTD. Ever.
I've supported Obama, and I'll continue to support him. But bullshit is bullshit.
And this is bullshit.
I must say I'm disappointed with the most recent Snorg Tee girl. Just not up to the usual standard.
Oh wait, that's Cheney.
Just shows to go you that you don't have to be a Clinton to do something unprincipled.
Professor Wagstaff
They didn't invent triangulation.
thats it. im supporting McCain. at lease he has the principle of his lack of conviction.
at least he will try and get the immunity stripped from the bill
Which will never happen and he knows it. To my reading, that part came off as almost insulting.
but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives - and the liberty - of the American people
here's the FUCKING thing that none of these assholes (yes, obama, you too - today) understand.
it shouldn't fucking MATTER which asshole is president - we shouldn'thave to fucking HAVE to trust that the one in there won't abuse the excessive power.
fucking CHECKS and fucking BALANCES were but in the fucking constitution for a fucking REASON!
fuckers.
Did I miss the "Fuck you, Nancy Pelosi" thread while I was out?
I'm trying to catch up.
I'll write a letter. I also think withholding turkee for a little while is appropriate, just to get the point across.
res ipsa loquitur
It might not hurt to threaten him with Column B.
There's an eternity between now and next Friday (the Senate vote), too.
I really would rather see Obama with a power to eavesdrop tho - he's got the ears for the job.
]
Sucking it all up at http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com/
Maybe we should all make fun of how Michelle Obama dresses or something.
What else I learned from this thread: Lefties think the SUPREME COURT is a terrorist organization. Ahhh, it must be nice to have such rational discourse.
American Hawk | 06.20.08 - 4:26 pm | #
it must be nice to hate your own country as much as you do, and call yourself a hawk while doing nothing to defend it. No wonder you suck Bush's flaccid little cock so joyfully.
I've supported Obama, and I'll continue to support him. But bullshit is bullshit.
And this is bullshit.
VictorLaszlo
Ah, you are a fighter, Mr Laszlo?
Lloyd and Libby ...
toby is bored with our government's pretend hunt for bin laden and is now demanding that they pretend to kill him.
They didn't invent triangulation.
attaturk
It weas that bastard Isosceles!
(wipiing spit from face) Yup, his own words said it best. The new flaovor of democratic ass, get used to it.
There's an eternity between now and next Friday (the Senate vote), too.
res ipsa loquitur
True.
What will Chris Dodd do?
"Jesus, everybody bitches that Dems don't win..."
Translation:
We should cheat like the Republicans...
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTT!!!!!!
I can't even understand why he did it. In poll after poll the vast majority of Americans a) oppose warrantless wiretapping, and b) oppose retroactive immunity.
As far as I can tell the new law does not allow warrentless wiretapping of citizens, and Obama is still against immunity.
Maybe we should all make fun of how Michelle Obama dresses or something.
Gomez
That's real deep, there, Gomez.
telcom immunity and spying will help merka put more 32 year-old violin teachers behind terrist bars:
Teacher gets 6 years for 2001 UW firebombing
'I am not a terrorist,' Waters says
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/
lo...1_waters20.html
I hope...really hope...that it is his intent to turn this weapon on the repugs and teach the conservatards that swords cut two ways.
Revenant
Now there's an idea. Let the Congress pass a law saying it's legal for Democrats to spy on Republican lawmakers, and make it retroactively.
I'm kidding, but if you can with a wave of the gavel make one law ex post facto legal, you can do anything.
And that is the problem with this abomination.
Croatia has a free kick and Turkey's goalie is just off the short bus (according to ESPN)
Because I was a chickenshit and thought at least Edwards could get elected.
yeah, me too. im not very optimistic, and i kind of expect stuff like this
from the dems these days.
Stevens was appointed by Ford. In both cases, conservatives didn't do enough to stop it.
American Hawk | 06.20.08 - 4:28 pm | #
In fact, they fell into lockstep behind the nominations, as they always do, like good little Nazi morons.
True.
What will Chris Dodd do?
attaturk
Refinance his mortgage?
The Special Ed kid saved it!!!
"I really would rather see Obama with a power to eavesdrop tho - he's got the ears for the job."
WHATCHOOTALKINBOUTWILLIS?
i kind of agree with him on the issues isolated from teh immunity provisions.
they really arent immunity provision though. they are not explicitly immunized. its interesting.
I can't see Dodd filibustering this.
You know he hates it, but the fix seems to be in.
Looks like I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue.
What will Chris Dodd do?
attaturk | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:32 pm | #
Take another bribe from Countrywide.
Fuck him, he is dead to me.
Gummo,
Petit bourgeois washouts like Toby, Auggie, AH and Brian are great figures of fun. Imagine how quickly they would be in the custody of security guards if they tried to socialize with the grandees whose cause they espouse with such canine fidelity and ferocity.
Barack, say it ain't so. Say it ain't soooooooo.....
v
American Hawk plays soccer?
My dog is strangely unmoved by all this.
"What a save! Srna whacks it towards the top corner and the ancient keeper Rustu pulls off a smashing one-handed save."
To quote Chris Rock:
" I ain't saying it's right, but I understand!"
MLB Wagstaff,
I'm stealing that "Petit bourgeois washout" thing.
WHATCHOOTALKINBOUTWILLIS?
TROLL IN BASEMENT
allright, allright, the kids look funny. That better?
i feel beter when i work hard all day.
I actually think this is fucking hilarious.
How about playing a winning hand, instead of going down in flames for an ideal?
a winning hand? a WINNING HAND? do you honestly think that if he sounded a clarion call to the party that the rule of law must be respected that it would tip some delicate balance in favor ov McThusela?
god damn it, if the repubs manage to steal the election somehow that's one thing. but if more americans vote for mccain than obama based on obama's speaking out against retroactive immunity for the enablers of the most despised president in history, well then i just fucking give up anyway.
I really would rather see Obama with a power to eavesdrop tho - he's got the ears for the job.
Obama can fucking glide on those things..
BIG BIG WINS for president bush and the gop this week. he got all $162 billion for Iraq that he demanded and the telecom bill he wanted on his terms. lame duck my ass.
Jeez, what are we gonna do when he actually has to bomb something?
qlª: "I kind of understand his not taking too strong a stand. Why waste the political capital for a lost cause."
Americans don't want telecom immunity.
Americans hate George W. Bush.
Taking a stand for the Constitution would in no way "waste political capital."
Every time the Democrats hand a victory to George W. Bush, it's because they want to.
they really arent immunity provision though. they are not explicitly immunized. its interesting.
How? Also, what does the bill do re: warrantless wiretapping?
Fired Up And Ready to.......
er
um
ah
yeah, um....
i hope attaturk live blogs from the salad bar at the new applebees.
Professor Wagstaff,
Yes, but sometimes it's fun to call out the real America-haters. Since they're so used to patting each other on the back as faux patriots, when all they really are are frightened dvelopmentally challenged little children looking for a mean daddy to punish them....
My dog is strangely unmoved by all this.
She has nothing to hide.
"Teacher gets 6 years for 2001 UW firebombing"
Arson is terrorism?
Usually it's a insurance scam by Republican business owners who can't make a profit...
i kind of expect stuff like this
from the dems these days.
I am going to refrain from bashing the party for at least the next few seconds for fear of burning any remaining bridges. But the Democratic Party is not high on my list of loved ones today.
Seems to me like it'd be much worse to glue your mouth shut in hopes that he's just setting things up to govern to the left. Why shouldn't he get feedback during the campaign?
Phila, Phila Sarpint | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:29 pm | #
I think he should get thousands of letters, emails and phone calls objecting to his position from patriots like us. I also think he has proven conclusively that he knows the difference between campaigning and governing, and the difference between winning and losing. I agree wholeheartedly with you that he needs to be forced to the left, but he doesn't need to tip his hand. he has enough going against him, if you look at the racist crap from sonny ablaza, bugs, etc. I'm damn sure he's very much smarter than you are giving him credit for right now.
Would that people stopped responding to Emetic Hawk. He is fucking blowhard, a creepy Arthur Bremer type, a basement dweller who jacked off when he saw Nancy Reagan humping Ronnie's casket in the rotunda, a loser with a blowup doll of Larry Craig, a typical former member of a high school circle jerk, someone whoseone testicle ascends every time he see a minority member.
"What a save! Srna whacks it towards the top corner and the ancient keeper Rustu pulls off a smashing one-handed save."
Gromit
A troll's Saturday night
seriously though - can someone explain to me what the "compromise" was?
but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives - and the liberty - of the American people
Gee, thanks. It's good to be the King, eh? Except this nation is supposed to be ruled by laws, not men.
What will Chris Dodd do?
He'll not be sworn in as President next January.
Fucking unfortunately, too.
Dow closes -220.
BIG BIG WINS for president bush and the gop this week. he got all $162 billion for Iraq that he demanded and the telecom bill he wanted on his terms. lame duck my ass.
sonny ablaza
In all candor, I think Mr. Ablaza is correct.
It's a mystery to me.
i hope attaturk live blogs from the salad bar at the new applebees.
notaboomer
I'm going to demand a BLOOMIN' ONION and tell 'em to charge it to David Brooks.
If you say so, Atrios:
the President's illegal program of warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance - making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future. It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.
.
Retroactive immunity.
Telecomm shareholders will be quite happy on Monday.
I actually think this is fucking hilarious.
Yeah, it's really funny. Really, really funny.
You know how funny?
I just don't give a shit any more.
Norway is sounding very intriguing about now.
lame duck my ass.,/I.
I take it that Chimpster's not leaving office seven months from now?
Thanks for the tip, douchebag.
Um - you don't 'waste political capital' by expending it in a just cause. That's the way you increase it.
I want to see if I've got this right: supporting a bill that most Americans don't, containing a provision that most Americans REALLY don't support, is going to help Obama win?
seriously though - can someone explain to me what the "compromise" was?
dirk gently, melancaholic
They'll use the rubber paddles instead of the wooden ones.
I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.
Retroactive immunity for wankerism contingent on how hard he tries.
seriously though - can someone explain to me what the "compromise" was?
No retroactive immunity, but the telecoms get to dismiss 40 cases.
As usual, GWPDA is right.
exactly GMT, the more i read, the non immunity part is fine.
the immunity part is a travesty though. Travibad.
I've said this before but it doesn't seem to be sinking in. The trivial concessions Dodd got in the CW deal are perfectly routine. Mme. Wagstaff and I got the same things without asking in out most recent mortgage.
It is also worth noting that the Republics are howling like Old Testament prophets from the dunghill of corruption they have built over conventional practices all banks extend to clients economically comparable to Dodd.
Oops have thunder. And suckers at http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com/
Gee, thanks. It's good to be the King, eh? Except this nation is supposed to be ruled by laws, not men.
puppethead
that's what i said. except i threw in a lot more "fucks"
I'm damn sure he's very much smarter than you are giving him credit for right now.
ronjazz
I have a feeling this will look different exactly seven days from now.
Norway is sounding very intriguing about now.
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I'd quite like to be....
No retroactive immunity, but the telecoms get to dismiss 40 cases.
Snow (WF-SC) | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:39 pm | # [kill][hide com
with prejudice i assume.
Retroactive immunity for wankerism contingent on how hard he tries.
watertiger, Sec.Foot2Face
I like the way you think.
McThusela?
Another Croat free kick.
C'mon Corky!
I know it's bad news, but it's also Friday. I want you guys to go out, have a little fun, and, for god's sake, don't plan any t*rr*r*ist b***ings.
what sister said.
and there is a week to get something going in the Senate.
GMT, those are nice words, but you, he, and I all know that he's about as likely to "remove this provision" in the Senate as Rumsfeld is to voluntarily surrender himself to the International Criminal Court. It would surprise me if Obama is even in DC when they debate this.
Yeah, it's really funny. Really, really funny.
Yes. Everyone getting their undies in a bundle over a bill that will be changed on Jan 21.
Waitasec: this bill lacks retroactive immunity?
Since when?
Except this nation is supposed to be ruled by laws, not men.
What in this bill, aside from the immunity bullshit, goes against the rule of law?
he got all $162 billion for Iraq that he demanded and the telecom bill he wanted on his terms. lame duck my ass.
sonny ablaza | 06.20.08 - 4:36 pm | #
it only cost him the future of the GOP, which is now nonexistent. Telecoms will pay, and pay big, and iraq will be cleaned up by the party that knows how to govern. The republicans are finished, and that's the best news there is from all this. Bush is a lame duck, but the Republican congress is full of traitors and America-haters, and that is now clear to real Americans, unlike you.
that's what i said. except i threw in a lot more "fucks"
dirk gently, melancaholic
Heh, have a fucking coke.
No retroactive immunity, but the telecoms get to dismiss 40 cases.
Snow (WF-SC)
but isn't it de-facto retroactive immunity? all the telcos have to do is produce an email saying that the chimp said it was legal.
As usual, GWPDA is right.
Y'know, if we just let GWPDA and ProfWombat run the world, everything would be ducky.
Yahk Cam! And it looked like a motorcyclist was there!
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I'd quite like to be
Denmark. "60 Minutes" said they're laugh-a-minute happy over there.
Yes. Everyone getting their undies in a bundle over a bill that will be changed on Jan 21.
Eh?
I bet the spaghetti sucks in Norway.
I tried to quickly update myself on the past threads. I think I'm caught up:
Fuck Conyers.
Fuck Hoyer.
Fuck Nancy.
Fuck McCain
Fuck Obama.
yeah, now I'm caught up.
Y'know, if we just let GWPDA and ProfWombat run the world, everything would be ducky.
Gromit
But, but, they use too many big words!!!!
- N.E. Wingnut
but isn't it de-facto retroactive immunity? all the telcos have to do is produce an email saying that the chimp said it was legal.
dirk gently, melancaholic | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:
not the same thing as immunity.
What in this bill, aside from the immunity bullshit, goes against the rule of law?
The Old Man From Scene 24
It's all legal if the "president" says so. So it's not a legal system, it's a regal system.
with prejudice i assume.
euphronius
playing the race card, eh?
Y'know, if we just let GWPDA and ProfWombat run the world, everything would be ducky.
Duz the job come with somebody to take away dead things in my shed?
I love this immunity. Now President BO can wiretap the RNC and congressional leadership. All he has to do is tell the telecomms it's legal and they'll hand everything over to him.
It's a win-win!!
/sigh....
There was a reason I put my shoes on. What was it? What am I supposed to be doing other than talking to you jerkys?
but isn't it de-facto retroactive immunity? all the telcos have to do is produce an email saying that the chimp said it was legal.
dirk gently, melancaholic
I still don't see how that process will withstand judicial review.
Where's the precedent?
Y'know, if we just let GWPDA and ProfWombat run the world, everything would be ducky.
Gromit
Well, kids, how about it?
You guys up for the roles of King and Queen of the Earth?
Not that we could do anything about it, but fantasize. Still...
Oh Noes! The shining champion of Hope and all that is Good aquires a little bit of tarnish.
You Obamaites wanted him. You will be getting him. And you will be responsible.
Hillary would have done exactly the same thing and she would have been all shrill and old and wearing a pantsuit. Plus Bill got a few BJs once. Oh and the Clintons are racist. The End.
Then he'd better get his ass to work removing that retroactive immunity provision from the Senate version.
And if he can't manage that, it's time to filibuster the fucking bill.
I sure as shit don't want to hear about this immunity thing getting slipped back in through a conference committee either.
Obama just lost my vote. First kissing up to AIPAC and now this. "Trust me" is his pitch, just like Bush, while he helps gut the Constitution. He's just another Democrap who talks a little left and acts hard right. I can't decide whether to write in Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich or Pigasus come November.
Hopefully Michele will give him the what-for later.
exactly GMT, the more i read, the non immunity part is fine.
the immunity part is a travesty though. Travibad.
euphronius
If immunity can't make it through the Senate, this bill is dead. The fascists won't support it without immunity and would rather kill it and try to blame the Democrats.
I doubt Bush would even sign it without immunity.
So, it's easy to "compromise" on a dead man walking, if I read this correctly.
.
produce a piece of paper that says the DOJ asked them to do it.
It's all legal if the "president" says so. So it's not a legal system, it's a regal system.
and this law says that does it?
I still don't see how that process will withstand judicial review.
Where's the precedent?
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:42 p
thats the first thing i thought of when i heard about this.
i dont know if the judges will be keen on this.
Um - you don't 'waste political capital' by expending it in a just cause. That's the way you increase it.
GWPDA-
Agreed, but the calculus here may include votes for Obama in the face of another attack. Bush and Cheney have run this country on fear fear fear, and Obama would be hammered for lowering our supposed protection if something did happen. As someone above said, he has taken the wind out of the sails for such an argument. Campaigning is different from governing, something I pray Obama knows, because god knows, the Bush Cheney administration does not.
No retroactive immunity, but the telecoms get to dismiss 40 cases.
"My love's in double jeopardy, baby..."
Denmark. "60 Minutes" said they're laugh-a-minute happy over there.
Well, they're laughing, but just on the inside. On the outside they're sipping coffee and doing crosswords.
not the same thing as immunity.
euphronius | 06.20.08 - 4:42 pm | #
if they can't be held accountable, it effectively is.
and doesn't the bill give bush himself (and his admin) immunity?
Um - you don't 'waste political capital' by expending it in a just cause. That's the way you increase it.
GWPDA
I'm trying to be generous here. He is the candidate and we can't afford to have McStain appoint 3-4 supremes.
Duz the job come with somebody to take away dead things in my shed?
GWPDA, yclept Irate Historian
U can haz teh CIA and teh Secret Service.
he wants to send out a signal that there won't be too much change.
trifecta
Sad but true...
gwpda-wombat 2012!
Maybe Obama has been trying on his new crown and likes how it fits.
"it's good to be king"
I just called the Obama campaign and told them I will not support him in the GE. Screw them all. I'll write in Al Gore's name. Fuck these pussy Dems - I've had it. They STILL think that we HAVE to vote for them. Well, guess what? If I want a Republican in office I will vote for a real one and not some spineless Democrat that will sell my Constitutional rights down the river for a campaign contribution from AT&T. Obama had better stop worrying about Hillary's supporters and start worrying about US - the REAL backbone of the Dem party and of Obama's fundraising operation. Isn't it funny how terrorists crashed the jets into the WTC and got the American government to do everything they wanted to diminish our rights, yet we work within the law to change things and our representatives screw us every time, even when opinion is 100-1 against the FISA bill. When will the Dems ever learn?
Obama just lost my vote.
McCain thanks you for not calling Obama and pressuring him.
Where's the precedent?
Holden Caulfield
Here.
.
i mean, the judges dont have to do something just because teh COngress instructed them to. sometimes they do. not all the time.
I just called the Obama campaign and told them I will not support him in the GE.
McCain also thanks you.
"Olic has a final chance after taking down Kovac's volley and that is that. We'll have 30 more, turgid, minutes no doubt. Boo!"
Finland, Finland, Finland,
The country where I'd quite like to be
Denmark. "60 Minutes" said they're laugh-a-minute happy over there.
res ipsa loquitur | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:42 pm |
I'll take Sweden. And maybe New Zealand.
There was a reason I put my shoes on. What was it? What am I supposed to be doing other than talking to you jerkys?
Monica_A: Dammit!
I think you wanted to kick someone.
Duz the job come with somebody to take away dead things in my shed?
GWPDA
Not fair. I'm the one with monsters and dead bodies in my closets, sheds and basement.
Here.
.
Grand Moff Texan
Oh, no. In Bush v. Gore the SCOTUS specifically said their decision could nto be used as a precedent.
if you say so GMT
There was a reason I put my shoes on. What was it? What am I supposed to be doing other than talking to you jerkys?
You were going over to streetsofnewyork.com and picking up the pizza I ordered. Thanks!
and this law says that does it?
The Old Man From Scene 24
Yes. Telcos produce letters from the president that he said it was legal, and they're off the hook. Ergo, whatever the president says is legal is legal. Rule by fiat.
I really can't remember what I'm supposed to be doing. You people make me lose my sense of place and time. Damn you. Damn you all!
Obama just lost my vote.
Your daughters and granddaughters thank you!
and this law says that does it?
The Old Man From Scene 24
well, as good as. it says the telco's can't be held responsible if the pres said it was ok. and that the pres can't be held responible either as i understand it.
so if no one can be held accountable based on the king's say-so, that's as good as saying "it's legal if he said it is"
He is who we thought he was.
Very said. Obama is turning out to be the corporatist lackey I always thought he might be.
I just called the Obama campaign and told them I will not support him in the GE.
Four More years!
Four More years!
MLS RIL,
Thanks and you are hereby licensed to its use.
and
Gummo,
True enough. They are morally, intellectually, and politically odious creatures who deserve to be told as much. But their delusional self importance also invites contempt and I am happy to RSVP.
notaboomer
Duz the job come with somebody to take away dead things in my shed?
I don't know why not. After all, they take away W's poop.
I'll take Sweden.
Ja well they just passed a law saying the government can spy on all communication that leaves or enters the country.
The telecoms were never going to be held accountable anyway. Even if they did, it's our bills that would have gone up. But then again, I prefer to focus on the excesses of the Bush administration and not those coerced into assisting them.
Rule by fiat.
puppethead | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:45 pm | #
triumph!
You were going over to streetsofnewyork.com and picking up the pizza I ordered. Thanks!
I just read that the best pizza in the U.S. is in Phoenix. I think it was called "Pizza Bianca"...?
if they can't be held accountable, it effectively is.
and doesn't the bill give bush himself (and his admin) immunity?
dirk gently, melancaholic | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:43 p
well whatever the effective difference is there is a difference in the legal reality.
bush already has immunity from civil suits. his sataff already has qualified immunity.
Where's the precedent?
Holden Caulfield
Here.
Now, now, GMT. Nino said that Bush v. Gore was sui generis. And Nino wouldn't lie about something like that.
And just to clarify. Yes, he said he would try to remove immunity from the bill.
He will fail.
Then he will vote for it anyway.
What a piece of shit.
well, as good as. it says the telco's can't be held responsible if the pres said it was ok. and that the pres can't be held responible either as i understand it.
that's the immunity bit (which Obama says he is against), I was asking about the rest of the law.
I think you wanted to kick someone.
Could be. My B-I-L was just here.
You were going over to streetsofnewyork.com and picking up the pizza I ordered. Thanks!
Pretty sure this wasn't it. Sorry.
This thing that passed today is basically another part of the Enabling Act of Bushofascist America.
i mean, the judges dont have to do something just because teh COngress instructed them to. sometimes they do. not all the time.
euphronius
Indeed.
Even with the passage of this bill, it is still illegal for the telecoms to give the government access to your private communication s without a warrant.
Chimpy's say-so does not negate that fact.
I just read that the best pizza in the U.S. is in Phoenix. I think it was called "Pizza Bianca"...?
res ipsa loquitur
I read that.
That's just not right.
You people make me lose my sense of place and time.
I love it when a woman tells me that.
Dear Sen. Obama,
Thanks to your unconscionable support of telcom immunity for breaking the law, take me off your Presidential Campaign mailing list.
Didn't texasbob forget to tell us he's a lifelong member of the Democrat Party?
sui generis
A generous pig?
I ell you there is no difference between Bush and Gore.
-Ralph Nader, 2000
I tell you, there is no difference between Kerry and Bush,
-Ralph Nader, 2004
I tell you, there is no difference between Obama and McCain.
-Ralph Nader 2008
bonfire!
Obama's a politician. Now the question is what people here are willing to do to get him on board...
http://www.pizzeriabianco.com/
Never been myself - have to wait forever.
notaboomer:
It's a pretty big "if," I admit, but we've already seen the fascists kill things that don't give them everything they want, and they've been paid to deliver immunity.
If I'm in the Senate, I'd start off with "we know how much money has been spent by the telecoms to buy their way out of trial and perhaps prison, but once we're outside those doors, it'll be a simple matter of math to determine how much each 'yes' vote cost."
(bc you can't make direct accusations on the Senate floor)
The subject is corruption, not security.
.
Even with the passage of this bill, it is still illegal for the
telecoms to give the government access to your private communication s
without a warrant.
It's the "retroactive" part that has some of us a bit nonplussed.
courtesy of G Greenwald, this is what the law says is required to dismiss all claims against a telco:
Seriously though, our party shouldn't put us in this position........over and over and over again.
[A] civil action may not lie or be maintained in a Federal or State court against any person for providing assistance to an element of the intelligence community, and shall be properly dismissed, if the Attorney General certifies to the district court of the United States in which such action is pending that . . . (4) the assistance alleged to have been provided . . . was --
(A) in connection with intelligence activity involving communications that was (i) authorized by the President during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on January 17, 2007 and (ii) designed to prevent or detect a terrorist attack, or activities in preparation of a terrorist attack, against the United States" and
(B) the subject of a written request or directive . . . indicating that the activity was (i) authorized by the President; and (ii) determined to be lawful.
So all the Attorney General has to do is recite those magic words -- the President requested this eavesdropping and did it in order to save us from the Terrorists -- and the minute he utters those words, the courts are required to dismiss the lawsuits against the telecoms, no matter how illegal their behavior was.
Further proof that, of the three major Democratic candidates, teh white guy was the most liberal.
i am so confused. is switching to credo mobile enough or should i go to dc with ntodd, torches, and sticks?
That's just not right.
A lot of pizza here sucks ass.
And Eye-ties do occasionally move west.
I had very good pizza in (of all places) Receda, CA. The guy making it was a transplanted Brooklynite.
Thanks to your unconscionable support of telcom immunity
Dumbass.
It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.
.
Now the question is what people here are willing to do to get him on board...
I thought the question was what will NToddler do for 25¢?
the rest of the law, from what i gather, affrims - importantly- that FISA is the exclusive means of spying. and the time period for warrents was lengthened from 3 t o7 days. and the gov does not have to get a warrent of call with 2 foreign parties where the digital info may have happened to pass through a US server.
I'm trying to be generous here. He is the candidate and we can't afford to have McStain appoint 3-4 supremes.
qlª | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:43 pm | #
that, and McThusela© will be much more likely and able to vigorously fight any actions from the left side of congress. obama will have a harder time denying democratic moves.
moral: vote for obama, but vote harder for progressive local and congressional candidates.
Turn off the money! We have until next week. Lets see what he thinks of taking in MUCH less money over the w/e.
Yes. Everyone getting their undies in a bundle over a bill that will be changed on Jan 21.
How, exactly, will it be changed? Once you immunize the telecoms for this, there are no takebacks.
And it could be argued that once you open the door to rule by presidential fiat, that genie can't be put back in the bottle either.
BiancO. That was it.
[delivers Belgian waffles to GWPDA]
[realizes he forgot pizza]
[gets on bike, starts pedaling]
the rest of the law, from what i gather, affrims - importantly- that FISA is the exclusive means of spying.
BUT IT ALREADY WAS!!!!!
What a piece of shit.
Ozzy Apples | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:46 pm | #
You are a piece of shit. You don't have the faintest idea of what's about to happen.
-Ralph Nader, 2000
-Ralph Nader, 2004
-Ralph Nader 2008
Wow wrong each time, why is this man not a TV pundit?
That's just not right.
Nevertheless it could be true. There's some surprisingly good restaurants in both Phoenix and Tucson. In Globe and Winslow? My advice when driving through them: keep going till at least Flagstaff.
The congress might have the power to grant immunity, but does it have the power to force a court to grant immunity?
it is "effectively" retroactive immunity but does not work that way. it just gives the telcoms a sort of evidentiary affirmative defense. or soemthing.
i sure hope you are right, GMT.
" just called the Obama campaign and told them I will not support him in the GE. Screw them all. I'll write in Hitler's name..."
Kyle?
Is that you?
Now the question is what people here are willing to do to get him on board...
I thought the question was what will NToddler do for 25¢?
Holden Caulfield | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:49 pm | #
same answer.
Soccer liveblog, continues...
Extra time begins. Remember, 15 minutes each way, twice
Huh?
Or once. I think I mean once.
Ok, thanks.
BUT IT ALREADY WAS!!!!!
dirk gently
Yes, but that's not what the fascists wanted. They've been lying about FISA for years.
.
the rest of the law, from what i gather, affrims - importantly- that FISA is the exclusive means of spying.
Which had already been affirmed by FISA 30 years ago.
but isn't it de-facto retroactive immunity? all the telcos have to do is produce an email saying that the chimp said it was legal.
Not if there are more than 40 cases and not if the telecom can't produce Chimpy's royal decree.
BUT IT ALREADY WAS!!!!!
dirk gently, melancaholic | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:49 pm | # [kill][hide comment]
i know i know.
what can i say?
res ipsa we still picnicking?
moral: vote for obama, but vote harder for progressive local and congressional candidates.
And work on Obama NOW.
Why can't we send Goren and Eames to defeat the terrorists?
Someone suggested that Obama "grow a pair". But all should know that in his pursuit of the white middle-aged female vote, he has decided that his candidacy should be "post-sexual", as well as "post-partisan". As such, dangling accouterments are unnecessary.
And, if you ask him to "grow a spine" instead, his candidacy will become "post-vertebral", as well.
This really sucks but (I'm looking desperately for a silver lining here) in the long run this should lead to a healthier relationship between the blogosphere and candidate and soon to be President Obama. Let's face it: Obama is a fairly centrist, if populistic, Democrat. I know he isn't going to agree with me on every issue (I refuse to give him an "expediency" pass on this one). The sooner we all get over the Obama swoon, the sooner we can get down to the business of a) Remove the Rethugs from power; and b) Elect better Democrats. I will work my ass off to get Obama elected, knowing that he sometimes does things that piss me the hell off. Consider the alternative.
Isn't it funny how terrorists crashed the jets into the WTC and got the American government to do everything they wanted to diminish our rights, yet we work within the law to change things and our representatives screw us every time, even when opinion is 100-1 against the FISA bill. When will the Dems ever learn?
Dom
Yeah ha,ha,ha. The lesson isn't lost on me.
I think it involved Bed Bath & Beyond and closet organizers. If not, Ouzo's out of $150. Everybody be cool and be good to each other.
I may have to use the clothespin from '92 and '96 for my nose when I vote for BHO(AND contribute to him), but another Republic administration would be exponentially destructive.
I think the "compromise" will be that the Senate removes immunity, there's a hell of a fight in conference, and then Bush pardons them all anyway.
Or something.
But the thing to watch is how the Democrats in the Senate move against immunity.
.
Reseda. Hunh. I'm a bit more surprised that RIL would ever -be- in Reseda. It's like casually mentioning that I've been to Yahk. And back.
This is like a guy asking you if he can use you to break up with his girlfriend or a guy using you to break up with his girlfriend.
Sucks either way, uses you either way, one you know you're being used, the other you don't.
Don't like.
So now, the Democrats too have proved themselves to be no more willing to stand up for our way of life than the Republicans. Congress continues to (illegally) amend the Constitution by legislation, in an effort to legalize Georgejr's crimes.
My only consolation is I can still vote for my Democratic cadnidate for Senate, Tom Udall, in good conscience. He voted NO, today.
And take Lil Ouzo to his bowling tournament. That was the second thing. Sheesh! You turn 36 and everything starts to go.
the rest of the law, from what i gather, affrims - importantly- that FISA is the exclusive means of spying. and the time period for warrents was lengthened from 3 t o7 days. and the gov does not have to get a warrent of call with 2 foreign parties where the digital info may have happened to pass through a US server.
Non of which goes against the rule of law (although I don't understand why 3 days isn't long enough).
Its the immunity bit that's egregious.
I think the "compromise" will be that the Senate removes immunity, there's a hell of a fight in conference, and then Bush pardons them all anyway.
The Senate is not going to remove immunity. They were the ones who put immunity in their own bill to beging with.
Lotta new trolls around here.
.
tweety promo i just saw:
'eight years ago al gore won the popular vote and lost the presidency. will the same thing happen to barack obama.'
tweety doesn't appear to remember that the supreme court its own damn self said their installation of idiot son was a one off.
238 Visitors Online
I was fired up and now I am pissed off.
so, I dont think this works that well for the core constituency. Those young idealists I spoke to on the campaign HQ phones yesterday were ALL against telco immunity.
Of course, I vote for the guy, but I aint very enthusiastic today. I am waiting to see what happens in the Senate.
This is not a vote he should miss. It is also a vote that requires a 60-person majority to show that a filibuster would fail. I hope they dont have that.
Yahk is the dark side of the moon.
but does it have the power to force a court to grant immunity?
That isn't the issue. Court's follow the law, and a grant of immunity is the law. The courts cannot reject a grant of immunity; it can only enforce an immunity agreement.
we must get the organizers out of the closet.
Unification!!!1!!
...for the good of the party.
well whatever the effective difference is there is a difference in the legal reality
that's what i meant by "de-facto"
iirc, that's what "de-facto" means.
snow courts can ignore congress if congres stells them to act unconstitutionally.
Which had already been affirmed by FISA 30 years ago.
Now that's what I call a compromise!
McCain thanks you for not calling Obama and pressuring him.
If, by "wanker," you mean "total coward," I agree completely.
I thought the question was what will NToddler do for 25¢?
Holden Caulfield
Nothing. Fiddy cent.
GMT,
We've been knee deep in troll shit most of the afternoon.
But I learned something interesting: Holden told me that Toby can see a gas station from his apartment. What a coincidence! I can see Rock Creek Park from my window.
The courts cannot reject a grant of immunity; it can only enforce an immunity agreement.
A grant of immunity can be appealed.
Gomez, the only spaghetti I like is my own.
"It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses.
-----------------------------
If he means this, he will oppose the bill if the provision remains. In that case, his statement would allow him to say Bush is putting the nation at risk in order to save himself and the telecoms.
But somehow I don't believe that's what he'll do.
iirc, that's what "de-facto" means.
dirk gently, melancaholic | Homepage | 06.20.08 - 4:54
i know.
but the de jure difference might be mroe important than the de facto one. and hte de facto difference might end up being the de jure one. then the de fact oand de jure difference will merge and we will be hunted down by MechA De Jure Factorus
But I learned something interesting: Holden told me that Toby can see a gas station from his apartment.
that photo was legit? was that toby brown bagging it?
Gomez, the only spaghetti I like is my own.
Ditto NToddler.
Wait, did you say "spaghetti".
GWPDA,
Reseda, yes. Don't ask. I cried every day.
What is the water like in Phoenix? Hard? Soft? Just right? It makes a diff in the dough.
So great to support a party with leadership whose consistant position for negotionations on defense the rights of citizens is pants' waist around ankles, shoes behind ears.
Gomez, the only spaghetti I like is my own.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore
You don't like Gomez' noodle?
We've been knee deep in troll shit most of the afternoon.
You wouldn't think they would be so confident after the pasting we gave them on Archer-4.
.
A grant of immunity can be appealed.
By who?
Hagel interested in being Obama VP.
maybe they have good spaghetti in phoenix
Aha! So it was Vicki who created the Flying Spaghetti Monster! Ergo, she is the Creator of the Creator!
I don't quite understand how retroactive immunity, on the basis of Chimpy telling the telecoms that hsi request is legal, will withstand judicial review.
Holden Caulfield
It looks fine to me.
And work on Obama NOW.
NTodd, WhyIGottaBeMrPink |
well, yeah. some of us started doing that before he even got nominated.
that's why we gave money to a hobbit who could never have won (because no one would vote for him (because he could never have won (because no one would vote for him (because ...))))
by the time i get to phoenix,
the pizza's there! (croons)
that photo was legit? was that toby brown bagging it?
pretzelattack
That photo is not the actual Major Brand Gas station that lies across the street from Toby's pathetic 1BR.
However, he does live across the street from another Major Brand Gas.
Notice how Toby fled after that was posted?
Bunch of friggin crybabies. You trying to get McCain elected? No? Then shut the hell up and march!!
So Congress can vote away my right to privacy retroactively?
Yes Obama is a wanker. No vote here for Obama despite past support.
What he is basically saying violating and eviscerating the 4th Amendment (with the able and now soon to be immune efforts of the telcos) is a miscarriage of justice if Bush did it, but when I am in power I will, with the able and immune efforts of telcos, continue to violate and eviscerate the 4th Amendment with due respect for the people. Bullshit!
Insofar Obama speaks of change, he is another fucking fraud in a long line of the same.
DC and its current power structure need to fall hard by any means necessary.
Why do americans work and pay taxes only to pay for a government that can and does spy on them inviolation of the Constituion with impunity? All American W-2 workers should quit working for several weeks/months and cut off DC's lefe blood, taxes. Let DC collapse and then rebuild anew with all new faces.
What a nice guy:
In a public rally last week, Freshwater said the school administration’s directive to remove a personal Bible from his desk was an abridgment of his First Amendment rights, and refused to comply with the order. On Friday, students held a rally in support of Freshwater and his stance for displaying his Bible.
In a press release issued Tuesday afternoon, Superintendent Steve Short said, “The allegations against Mr. Freshwater are very serious. This is not about his personal Bible on his desktop. It is about the totality of his conduct.”
One of the complaints was that Freshwater used an electrostatic device to burn crosses onto students’ arms.
http://www.mountvernonnews.com/
l...hwater_upd.html
You don't like Gomez' noodle?
NTodd, WhyIGottaBeMrPink
I make homemade sauce.
If he means this, he will oppose the bill if the provision remains. In
that case, his statement would allow him to say Bush is putting the
nation at risk in order to save himself and the telecoms.
It's called "political theater."
the silly "process" here they get their suit thrown out can be appealed. it - on first blush - looks questionable on the grounds of separation of powers. it is the judiciaries role to make such determinations, not the executives.
By who?
Snow (WF-SC)
EFF.
Hagel interested in being Obama VP.
I'm interested in Bill Gates giving me $50,000,000.
Obama's new seal looks great, Wolf. Do NOT try to denigrate it.
If McStain had such a seal, you'd be on your fucking knees, slobbering over it.
You don't like Gomez' noodle?
With the dire straits of hell ... EVERYTHING ... these days, I don't think about noodles any more. Or boobies. Haven't for a lonnnnngggg time.
Sex is for heathens.
But feel free to discuss amongst yourselves. I find it refreshing.
'Notice how Toby fled after that was posted?
Holden Caulfield'
He had a couple of dogs on the grill to attend to.
that's why we gave money to a hobbit who could never have won (because no one would vote for him (because he could never have won (because no one would vote for him (because ...))))
[sobs]
I guess today is not going to be Barack Obama day.
res ipsa loquitur | Homepa
We on the left brought him to this party,he better dance with us.
judiciary's i meant
Do they have restrooms at the Major Brand Gas station? Do they accomodate a wide stance?
By who[m]?
Snow
Smith & Wesson.
.
Well the real pissy thing is he's appealing to the middle WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE TO:
Newsweek Poll: Obama Opens Up 15-Point Lead
Barack finally has his bounce. For weeks many political experts and pollsters have been wondering why the race between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain had stayed so tight, even after the Illinois senator wrested the nomination from Hillary Clinton. With numbers consistently showing rock-bottom approval ratings for President Bush and a large majority of Americans unhappy with the country's direction, the opposing-party candidate should, in the normal course, have attracted more disaffected voters. Now it looks as if Obama is doing just that.
THERE'S YOUR BOUNCE
Yes Obama is a wanker. No vote here for Obama despite past support.
Super. McCain is happy.
What he is basically saying violating and eviscerating the 4th Amendment (with the able and now soon to be immune efforts of the telcos) is a miscarriage of justice if Bush did it, but when I am in power I will, with the able and immune efforts of telcos, continue to violate and eviscerate the 4th Amendment with due respect for the people.
um, did you read what is in the bill or what Obama's statement? It doesn't sound like you did.
What is the water like in Phoenix? Hard? Soft? Just right? It makes a diff in the dough.
You mean, 'tap' water? It's potable. Got most of ur required trace elements in it. Some rocks. A little bit of salt. Sometimes, algae. But it isn't hardly ever sticky any more, and it remains wet. And u can drink it.
HBK,
Yes, I am leaving in 0:10.
246 visitors online want to know why Obama's a wanker.
Sorry, casual visitors. It's going to take a lot more than weak knees on telecom immunity to make me vote for Ralph Nader.
One of the complaints was that Freshwater used an electrostatic device to burn crosses onto students’ arms.
Just like Jesus did.
I forget where in the Bible it says that, though.
For weeks many political experts and pollsters have been wondering why the race between Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain had stayed so tight
Those experts are fucking idiots.
seriously, the more far-left progressives win races, or put up effective challenges in places where no one thought they had a chance, or raise moneythat would have gone somewhere else, the more pressure there is on the center to move left.
the correct pressure on obama is not "i'm going to abandon you (and vote for someone even worse)" - he knows that will not happen. the correct pressure is "look how many people are actively working to get more liberals into office - and putting their $ in with the effort"
of course, a phone call wouldn't hurt, either.
We on the left brought him to this party,
And many behaved like very nasty assholes to make sure it happened.
Do they have restrooms at the Major Brand Gas station? Do they accomodate a wide stance?
B1 Bummer, Sgt. Unicorn
Toby ain't tellin'.
However, I suggest that every time Tobes appears here everyone in the room should shout, "Major Brand Gas"!
I think this is a lot less of a big deal than we are making it.
Seriously, did anybody actually believe that the corpos don't own a chunk of Obama?
And work on Obama NOW.
NTodd, WhyIGottaBeMrPink
and your plan is? e-mails, phone calls, marching on Michelle?
THERE'S YOUR BOUNCE
attaturk
SPROING!
And many behaved like very nasty assholes to make sure it happened.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore
And are strangely silent.
And many behaved like very nasty assholes to make sure it happened.
Vicki
Did you see something nasty in the woodshed?
.
It's going to take a lot more than weak knees on telecom immunity to make me vote for Ralph Nader.
He doesn't have weak knees on immunity. He is against it.
However, I suggest that every time Tobes appears here everyone in the room should shout, "Major Brand Gas"!
i agree with the major gas part. but i think of toby as being more generic.
I think this is a lot less of a big deal than we are making it.
That's what she said.
/NToddler
I think this is a lot less of a big deal than we are making it.
Gomez
Well, yes and no. There's no doubt the internet is full of the more strident (and usually) more informed activist.
[No Quarter folks excepted]
I've called and written Obama, Stabenow, and Levin. I've written Vern Ehlers, too.
Ehlers, as you all probably know, is fucking useless.
and your plan is? e-mails, phone calls, marching on Michelle?
Odd that I'm the one that has to have a plan...
But yeah, letters everyday, going to DC to occupy his office...c'mon, have I just been saying shit to empty air all these years?
Newsweek Poll: Obama Opens Up 15-Point Lead
It should be 30 points. McStain is a whiney-ass has-been.
Why do americans work and pay taxes only to pay for a government that can and does spy on them inviolation of the Constituion with impunity?
a very good question.
doesn't justify electing mccain, though.
Did you see something nasty in the woodshed?
In several internet crackdens, actually.
But you know, if you fill a pitcher with tap water and put it in the ice box, almost all the off taste disappears. Throw in a couple of slices of lemon - that works well too. Did I mention that it is wet?
This FISA "compromise" is shambolic. Y'all posting about what HRC would have done, or finding other excuses for the Special One, are lemmings; thank goodness atrios ain't afraid to call a wanker a wanker; off to KOS to see how those uber-obama cultists are spinning it. By the way,while I too support & will vote for BO, I don't expect the commencement of the progressive nirvana that y'all seem to envision. F*** the FISA compromise!
I think this is a lot less of a big deal than we are making it.
That's what she said.
/NToddler
Holden Caulfield
heh.
The Old Man From Scene 24
OK, under the "compromise", assuming it passes in current form, the executive branch in 2009 says to AT&T let us the see the e-mail and voice mail traffic of X without a warrant. Is AT&T immune from subsequent prosecution if it forks over the requested data?
c'mon, have I just been saying shit to empty air all these years?
You should blog that shit.
Depressed vindictive sheets.
.
the correct pressure on obama is not "i'm going to abandon you (and
vote for someone even worse)" - he knows that will not happen. the
correct pressure is "look how many people are actively working to get
more liberals into office - and putting their $ in with the effort"
Accountability Project.
It's not just for U.S. Representatives.
And many behaved like very nasty assholes to make sure it happened.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore
And are strangely silent.
Gomez | 06.20.08 - 5:02 pm | #
Do we have to go there again?
Speaking of hot dogs, do they still use those horrid roller things that keep the week-old hot dogs rolling around and around?
off to KOS to see how those uber-obama cultists are spinning it
Someone's going to be disappointed.
.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee - just hit 114F!
Do we have to go there again?
camelot-Obama
They have nowhere else to go.
.
Newsweek Poll: Obama Opens Up 15-Point Lead
Now thats fucking good news.
I forget where in the Bible it says that, though.
doncjesuis, Tina Fey fan
You're not familiar with the Book of Body Modification?
"I say unto thee, the body is Mine temple, and I shall treat it as I please. Take from Me My sign, so that it shall be shown that you are of Mine."
Grand Moff--hope your right (I'm slow on the draw right now; caught up in EURO 2008 Turkey-Croatia extra-time, which, by the way, is NOT shambolic).
OK, under the "compromise", assuming it passes in current form, the executive branch in 2009 says to AT&T let us the see the e-mail and voice mail traffic of X without a warrant. Is AT&T immune from subsequent prosecution if it forks over the requested data?
No.
My understanding is that the immunity (which, once again Obama opposes) is retroactive only applying to certain law suits that have already been filed. The legislation requires that they Get. A. Warrant. to do what you describe.
You should blog that shit.
Blogging is gaiii.
We need a better Democrat!
He doesn't have weak knees on immunity. He is against it.
The Old Man From Scene 24
There is certainly a whiff of politics to Obama's statement. Clearly he wants to assure Americans that he will do what is necessary to protect the nation from terrorist attack provided there is judicial oversight. The Telecom thing smells, but only fool really believes ATT was going down. They will vote for some kind of amendment in the senate. It will fail. Life will go on. What's important to me is that Obama has made it clear that President Obama will be bound by the constitution. But then again, I am too old to be a purist.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee - just hit 114F!
The good news: Not 114C.
Seriously, did anybody actually believe that the corpos don't own a chunk of Obama?
B1 Bummer, Sgt. Unicorn | 06.20.08 - 5:02 pm | #
He's been fully vetting by Corp. They like him. Obviously.
If only the quality of the game matched the fervour in the stands. It'd be 7-7 by now if it did. The game has got even worse sadly.
The Old Man From Scene 24
If you read further you should find that telcos will have prospective immunity for future disclosure to the executive. All the telcos need to show the judge is that the order protocol was followed and the order came from the prez, even without a warrant. This is carte blanche for the governemnt, acting through the telcos, to do what the 4th smendment prohibits.
By the way, do you really think any real difference exists bewteen the US civilian government, the US military and US telcos? Fascism classico that would make Mussolini smile.
I don't like Obama. He's flash - no substance.
I really don't like Obama.
It's not a political movement, it's a church.
There is certainly a whiff of politics to Obama's statement. Clearly he wants to assure Americans that he will do what is necessary to protect the nation from terrorist attack provided there is judicial oversight. The Telecom thing smells, but only fool really believes ATT was going down. They will vote for some kind of amendment in the senate. It will fail. Life will go on. What's important to me is that Obama has made it clear that President Obama will be bound by the constitution. But then again, I am too old to be a purist.
oh I agree absolutely with everything you say. But some people here are acting as if he against eh 4th amendment or something.
If you read further you should find that telcos will have prospective immunity for future disclosure to the executive. All the telcos need to show the judge is that the order protocol was followed and the order came from the prez, even without a warrant.
I don't beleive that's the case. Do you have any cites for that?
True dat, Gromit--all the EURO crowds have been huge w/ the singing, chanting & etc. Good idea that they keep matches in not-so-enormous venues (I don't know Wien's capacity but the other sites have been 35K
+or-). Not so here--but I like the crowds that chant the bass line to Seven Nation Army; ESPN should ditch that crappy Stones video & get the Stripes immediately). Game now has detiorated; its like two exhausted fighters hanging & grabbing to stay afoot. The the inevitable PKs; but the tournie so far has been so stellar I can handle one or so games like this.
Rustu just bottled it---karma for Turkey's keeper getting himself sent off for nuttin the last game; at least we appear to be spared the PKs, thank goodness. Croats are crypto-fascists; can't wait to see someone give thwem their commeuppance.
you have got to be kidding!
http://www.actblue.com/page/fisa
Yay, Atrios!
Good on you.
The dems need to start moving away from the single issue of "national security" and concentrate on the issues that, every single day, affect us way more than that - healthcare, the economy, education, et cetera, et cetera.
If Obama is such an inspirational speaker, he should be able to do that.
It worries me that the dems don't know or don't want to know about any of that.
LOL, the Obamaniacs who were out in full force demonizing Hillary as a traitorous witch and an immoral slut are now out in full force with every excuse in the book for Obama on FISA. Give me a break.
I just went out and pulled up my Obama sign. Screw him.
Barack Obama--Wanker of the Day.
Today will be the first of many wank titles for the Precious One--I guarantee it.
Ugh. Definitely on good call for Wanker of the Day status.
Gromit--what say you? This thing justs keeps getting better & better.
I'll gladly not pay you on Tuesday for the laws I break today.
I'm liking this new ethics and morality.
Right on!
maybe it is because I'm older, but I'm kinda laughing my fat old ass off at the Obama-maniacs on this & other sites either acting like nerdy teenagers who have been stood up on a date, or are suddenly making all these real-politik, wise-beyond-our-years noises about how this is the best we can do, and w/o a compromise Bush will veto a bill, & any FISA problem can be rectified in the future. Screw FISA, & Screw the veto. There are more then enough extant means of gathering intelligence. I'm telling you young'ns, get ready for more of this (e.g., a sudden willingness to consider social security privatization, more weak ass "compromises" on so-called security issues to show the right he's really not a softy, etc.). I'm voting BO, & wouldn't consider otherwise under any conceivable set of circs. But this guy ain't no progressive, and he's gonna run right. Indeed, FISA may be his & his advisors intended "Sista Souljah" moment. Caveat Emptor, cultists.
He got his last dime from me.
Good grief. The "legitimate threats" we face are from our own government! Thanks a lot Barry, this shit is NEVER going to end, is it?
the constitution is a 4 letter word to these d00ds
Obama sold us out.
Use email encryption for stuff you don't anyone to see. There are encryption packages that even the NSA would have trouble cracking.
Okay, can I come back now?
It sucks...I just got some mail from Obama and was going to write a check tonight...
No fucking way now.
Never expected it would be this issue on which Obama would sell us out...his prior statements are clear that he would not support telecom amnesty.
Quite simply, unless he leads some sort of filibuster effort, Obama is a liar and just as much of a "flip-flopper" as John McCain.
We all have to sort of deal with that reality now.
Obama's "new kind of politics" = same old bullshit politics.
Obama is a wanker (Hillary supporters already know this). PLEASE wake up (the rest of you)!
And so begins the long grinding disappointment of progressives with Barack Obama. Mark this day. It is the first but certainly not the last of what, I suspect, will be a long string of such capitulations, dodges and evasions. More and better democrats in the Congress. Yearghhh...
Now you know:
Obama is a spineless, incompetent, unqualified, ethically-challenged, unintelligent fool. He will never get my vote (NOW MORE THAN EVERY)!
"unless he leads some sort of filibuster effort" . . . good point, Dixon. Its not just BO's statement or (new?)position that rankle, altho they sure as hell do! Its the fact that this would be an opportunity to take charge in the senate & make pts re our ever fading civil liberties, and the BushCos still-unchecked power grab. What a platform this provides, and what an oppty missed.
Just to clarify. Obama still gets my vote. I understood all along that he is first and foremost a politician of Herculean personal ambition and, if need be, will throw anything, including the Constitution, under the bus to get where he wants to go. The alternative in the general election, however, is a non starter. Sure John Edwards, from my perspective, was the best choice. But that's democracy. You don't always get what you want. Obama will always lead from behind. That's why we need more and better Democrats in the Congress to push him in the right direction.
Now you know:
Obama is a spineless, incompetent, unqualified, ethically-challenged, unintelligent fool. He will never get my vote (NOW MORE THAN EVERY)!
Oh, I'm voting for him, but without any illusions. This way he may surprise me.
Boy, Obama must be having a damn good laugh about this.
First he got the Edwards supporters, then he went after the Clinton supporters. Now he gives the finger to them all.
Guess he feels he needs to secure Tancredo supporters now.
Oh, I'm voting for him, but without any illusions. This way he may surprise me.
* * *
You are a g* d* FOOL!
What Dr. Black said.
Wanker of the day?
Damn skippy... (not you, Skippy)
OH, but at least he's NO HILLARY CLINTON...you guys wanted him...you got him...now watch him spin around like all the rest...CHANGE, my left foot!!!
Who are all these new nyms around these parts? Drop off the blog for a few weeks and the empty niche quickly fills up with...
I thought that the I-told-you-so's wouldn't start until at least after the election.
So how's that new politics working out for ya?
Barry "The Pussy" Obama
The position Obama sold out his principles to take is an UNPOPULAR one. Voters across party lines oppose warrantless wiretaps -- including large majorities of independents and Republicans. Large majorities of Democrats and independents also oppose telecom immunity - -and Republicans are evenly divided.
This was proven by Steny Hoyer, John Barrow's, and Harry Reid's pollster, Mark Mellman.
Explain how it helps Obama to sell out on a matter of principle in order to adopt a position opposed not only by Democrats by most independents and Republicans?
This was an argument Obama could easily have won. He could have used this as a club against McCain. And of course, not that it matters, but it IS a matter of core principle that he shouldn't have caved in on no matter what the numbers are.
But given what the numbers are, there is no excuse for this craven display of abject cowardice on the part of Obama, Pelosi et al.
They are a disgrace to our country.
Barry Obama -- he's the new Colin Powell!
I gave $ to get that slimy creep Hoyer out, but even if it succeeds he'll undoubtedly be rewarded w/ a high-paying gig as an AT & T lobbyist.
If there are any Demos in the Senate w/ the slight amount of integrity needed to FILIBUSTER I'll support them, but they just seem to be ReThug Lite. I'll probably hold my nose & vote for Obama in Nov. 'coz the idea of crazy "I hate the gooks" Grandpa running the country scares me BUT: even if the RePukes get turned out in record numbers, this proves very little will change.
The Elite protect their own. The rest of us (98.5% of 'Murikans) can go fuck ourselves as far as they care.
Hope and change anybody? Working against the special interests anybody? A transcender in the works, anybody? This is what inexperience and lack of qualifications get you beyond the flighty rhetoric. Another company owned politician who is arrogant enough to think what he does has no effect on the voter.
And we are expected to flock to the polls in November and forget Obama, the Chicago machine and the DNC. Right.
Wanker of the day? You ain't seen nothin yet. Wanker of the century if he really wins in NOvember.
(1) Right now, Senator Obama has pretty much one job and one job only: winning in November.
(2) He unambiguously came out against telecom immunity and said he will work to get it out of the Senate bill and support a filibuster.
(3) If (2) doesn't develop into a Doddian full-throated cri de coeur but stays at the level of a mere "no" vote, please see (1).
Some of you are a bit "demanding," to put it mildly... he's supposed to be House Majority Whip as well? Can we save the pearl-clutching and trips to the fainting couch until we're at least past the "campaigning" and into the "governing"?
Wingnuts often reach the level of drama-queening contained in the comments but usually to much more productive ends. That might have something to do with why they win so often when they should be losing.
Sheesh.
I'm proud of Atrios for not being afraid to pick on the Dem nominee and multi-racial knight Barack. Contrast that with how the other side always brown noses their leaders.
thanks, heger
Disappointing. But his "first 100 days" pledge included overturning executive orders that wouldn't pass constitutional muster. So he could overturn this by fiat.
I'm willing to concede that he has little to gain by making a stink here. Except that he could still vote no and say: "We have to pass Constutitional standards here, and this doesn't do it - and it's sad that defending the Constitution is regarded in some quarters as being a 'liberal' value, and even sadder, some call the Constitution itself 'un-American'".
After the election - look out. He better say that. So it is disappointing. It could just be a heat-of-the-campaign misstep.
OH, but at least he's NO HILLARY CLINTON...you guys wanted him...you got him...now watch him spin around like all the rest...CHANGE, my left foot!!!
And Corporate Hillary would have stood up better?
They're all a pack of gutless corporate-cronyist sock-puppets, only slightly less tainted than Bush/Cheney. The powers behind both parties yanked their chains, and the invertebrate House Dems folded like wet origami.
The brief moment of tepid hope for accountability for the phenomenal crimes of this administration is gone.
As of today I'm finished with the Democratic Party as an entity. I might support individual candidates for specific actions (my Congresscritter voted no, thankfully), but the party apparatus that promoted the gutless Pelosi and rotting Stenchy Whore is politically dead to me.
Nader '08
R.I.P. transformational politics.
-mort
If we want Washington to change, we need to put down the remote, take a week off, and burn Washington down to the ground.
Nuff Said.
P.S. AT&T, thanks for monitoring my email sent via your server.
F@#K YOU TOO!
This was predictable. Republican in Democrat clothing.
Makes former candidate Mike Gravel look a little better now, doesn't it?
I'm starting to lean, seriously, towards Ralph Nader.
He many not have a plan, but at least he has some cajones.
I am on the Obama email list. I clicked on the unsubscribe link and found that it includes an optional field to explain why one is unsubscribing.
“The Senator has caved in to Mr. Bush by accepting Telcom immunity in the FISA bill. Now is the time for leadership. Now is the time to stand up for our Rights. I had thought that Mr. Obama was capable of being the leader we need. I now believe that, while Mr. Obama *speaks* of "real change in Washington", he will not act. I would like to be proved wrong in this belief, but Mr. Obama has only days to prove me wrong by rallying his fellow Democrats in the Senate to stop this subversion of the rule of law.”
If you are on his email list, I urge you to unsubscribe and use that field to show him what he must do to win your support.
also...I've considered the statement's clause that as Prez, BO will closely monitor FISA for abuses. First, it is unwise to unleash the genie in the hopes of future good-faith compliance or monitoring. Second, I don't want a Prez of any stripe or good intent to have the power to beneficiently monitor a program that constitutes a serious encroachment on my rights.
Goodbye. 4th Amendment. It's moments like these that make me ashamed to be human much less an American. Nancy, just resign. And take the rest of the rotten Dems and Reps with you!
Nader 2008! He was right, let's face it.
Right on.
And I'm an Obama supporter of the Independent persuasion.
I hope there's not more disappointin' from him comin' our way...
I say fuck Obama... hes lost my vote and my wifes...he spits in our face on this FISA/ Telecom immunity deal so come November we'll remember
I am seeing a theme here:
When pressed on health care cost inflation he said the insurance companies need protection.
When pressed wire tapping, the phone companies need protection.
When press on energy policy - he indicated the oil companies need protection.
I was a delegate - I now believe I made a horrible mistake and supported just another panderer. Change is impossible. Exxon, AT&T, Cigna, KBR/Haliburtan will need to sign off on it first. Welcome to Bush's third term.
HULK | 06.20.08 - 9:53 pm | #
I would not stop it.
May the next election or so work like a much needed devastating plague hitting the halls of DC government removing all of those pigs who have slopped at corruption's trough for far far too long.
haha, oh my....are all the Hopium Tokers waking up from their dream world to finally see the NIGHTMARE they stuck us all with?
Too funny. Pogo Possum had it right: "We have met the enemy and he is us." Or how would Walt Kelly have worded it now?
We are the enemy we have been waiting for.
And no, Nader was not right. There is a VAST difference between Al Gore and George Bush. Just as there is a vast difference between Bill Clinton and Bush Sr....and between Hillary Clinton and BHO.
But there are a LOT of similarities between the Naderites and Obamaborg Collective. Cult heros attract the same type of zealots.
Zee
What, exactly, do you want?
surely after the reversals on campaign funding, iran, jerusalem, iraq, his "church," nafta and so on this cannot come as a surprise?
He's a very smart man. I've been a bit weirded out by this, but have decided to wait and see. There's a good chance there's more than meets the eye here.
I'd never take Steny's word on that, but O'bama definately deserves a benefit of the doubt.
Oh yeah. All of the Hannity Trolls here can kiss my a$$.
Seraphiel (nice name, btw!),
What do I want? At this point...just to laugh at the wailing of morons who think Obama "sold them out" when in fact all the evidence of how he's going to act has been there all the while for those who could see that the hype was just that: all hype. And that Obama actually has quite an evil history of fraud and corruption.
It was Gore v Bush all over again, quite obviously. The media Gored Hillary. That alone should've been a clue for the so-called "reality-based" left to do their own damned homework.
And anyone doing the homework would've recognized the same inexperienced narcissist who makes the PERFECT corporate puppet. All of Obama's stammering, his ignorance, his haughty nature, his fratboy mockery, his lies and his blaming everyone else but himself would have come into focus.
But no, instead, giddy nimcompoops sent around lists of Obama's "accomplishments" provided by the Obama camp as if they'd just proven something, when in fact king-makers hijacked those laws from the authors and people who actually did the work on them so that Obama would have a fraudulent resume to hoodwink people with.
And what happened to the lone journalist who wrote about this? Obama personally called him up and screamed at him.
And people call McCain 4 more years of Bush? Obama is 8 more.
And no, no links, if anyone wants to start that bs. Look it up yourself. The journalist I mentioned was a Chicago newspaperman, but the article I mentioned was published in Texas.
That is just barely scratching the surface. You addicts have MONTHS of research to catch up on.
Obama, wanker of the day. I think the progressive blogs have come to see the truth about Obama. Nah, it's just a passing lucid moment. The bloggers will go back into their fevered stupor and continue their irrational talk about change, unity, not same politics, blah, blah, blah. Suckers!
I have to be a loyal Democrat, I know. But what do I do when the nominee is not a loyal Democrat. I don't know. It's puzzling.
Great idea! That a wonderful way to send him the message. I think we should all do that.
No reason for Obama to give up ultimate power.He wants to be president in the worst way.. 'course, we've already had 7.5 years of the worse way.
Change... yeah, the only change he'll bring is what he's jangling in his pocket... we're the rubes and he's been a masterful carnival barker
ryan--nice try. I abhor Hannity & Billo & co. more then you can imagine. But (in keeping w/ Atrios's orig. post) if it walks like a Wanker & talks like a Wanker, its a wanker. Again, for the umpteenth time, despite what BHO our nation is not facing any threat that requires any further or ongoing dissolution of the 4th Am., & that's what this is, w/ an added whiff of corporastism/fascism now specifically set out in the "compromise" I, unlike you, refuse to blind myself to an obvious stinkeroo by placing my RIGHTS in the hands of BHO. His good or bad faith to "carefully momnitor" is bullshit. F*** the compromise & F*** BHO's carefully crafted cave-in. No to Telecom immunity & No to searches & seizures w/o a warrant. That ain't Hannity dude, its the antithesis of Hannity, who also invokes what he believes to be the Prz's ggod faith & best intention as the safeguard re any of the scores of Hoemland Secuity 9/11 power grabs.
Well, Chicago-style politics requires that you use every lever of power available to you.
Maybe Sen. Obama sees advantages in being able to spy on Americans virtually carte blanche. So it's a twofer: He gets to look "strong" on national security (terrists beware!) and he gets a means of acquiring information on possible opponents.
Altho' since it's now the Obama Party, and the Repubs are diminishing as we speak, maybe he won't have much opposition for quite awhile. That way lies danger, with the kinds of powers which have accrued to the unitary executive.
Who is in power who will stand up for the Constitution and civil liberties?
Who??????
jawbone | 06.21.08 - 11:18 am | #
If so, this is the type of thinking that needs to disappear from DC.
Ron Paul didn't vote against it only because he wasn't there. He has been busy lately out fighting for that *real* change people keep seem to wanting..
"Jesse Benton was quoted: Dr. Paul missed the vote today because he had a longstanding commitment to speak at the Montana GOP Convention today."
http://www.campaignforliberty.co...56#comment-
2489
But it's more fun to ignore his many statements against the bill (and those like it) and pretend he supports it somehow.
http://www.house.gov/paul/congre...8/
cr031408h.htm
http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/do...ent.php?
id=1064
I'm only surprised that anyone is surprised.
PUMA!
I hope all the Hillary haters are happy now--Obama will LOSE in November because he has no idea what he is doing and the same right wingers that gave him the nomination will see to it. I saw this coming months ago. Glad I didn't vote for him in the primaries--I have nothing to be ashamed of...I voted for Edwards.
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