I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Choo-choo.
Impeach!
What's that about horseshoes and hand grenades?
who needs new rail cars anyway? not the murkin way
Maybe Atrios should start a rubber drive in his neighborhood. He can add it to his duties as warden of the Victory Garden...
Well isn't this awkward. Sort of like talking to your dad about sex...
The war is actually affecting a lot of major infrastructure projects, as parts like ball bearings are going to the military, resulting in project delays that further drive project costs.
Combined with record inflation and skyrocketing commodities prices as Americans have to compete for construction materials with countries like China, infrastructure project costs are going up dramatically, with the price tag being passed to you and me...
OBAMA!
Damn - if I thought it through I could have made a fortune buying steel futures contracts...
Great.
Wouldn't it just be cheaper for SEPTA to build hang-gliders, or something?
The war is actually affecting a lot of major infrastructure projects, as parts like ball bearings are going to the military, resulting in project delays that further drive project costs.
If you're trying to buy any substantial quantity of stainless steel these days, bend over and grab your ankles.
The war is actually affecting a lot of major infrastructure projects, as parts like ball bearings are going to the military, resulting in project delays that further drive project costs.
Don't be silly.
I mean, if that were the case, we'd be having major steam line ruptures in NYC, or bridge collapses in Minnesota!
Don't look now, Georgie, but your little war is making people unable to work. Oops.
Atrios,
What's the best Ted Leo album? "Shake The Sheets"?
I just came from getting my taxes done. Gimme a marguarita and a jet pack.
I'm a Capricorn. We hate everyone, primarily because being a goat isn't that sexy in any context.
If you're trying to buy any substantial quantity of stainless steel these days, bend over and grab your ankles.
Dr. Wu
Concrete, too. Jeebus H.
"Let us beat swords into plowshares."
(I put that in quotes so no one on this thread attacks me.)
Maybe Atrios should start a rubber drive in his neighborhood.
Instead of driving around picking up all the rubbers, maybe he could just work on getting people to stop littering.
Or anyone from the thread below for that matter.
Why are you offended by someone believing in a higher power?
Snow
Because it's the gateway to all kinds of unreasonable things.
I'm not saying that you don't have the right to believe in a higher power. I'm just not giving you a "by" because it's all fluffy and shit. 
Geez,
I was ready to take the day off from the news but Mrs Schaeffer is upstairs with a LIFETIME movie on about some woman dying of cancer so I am left with:
Bush gutting the Intelligence Oversight Committee on Kos
Idiots separating children by socioeconomic factors for public school lunches at the New York Times.
Hillary acting like a screeching harpy with her ridiculous advertisement. (sorry - but she is)
Mukasy refusing to enforce the law - what the hell? He is the chief attorney of the UNITED STATES, right?
The economy is in the shitter.
The moral turpitude in Washington is fucking amazing.
The press is silent on everything important and chattering endlessly about shit that don't matter.
Have I figured it out yet?
(I put that in quotes so no one on this thread attacks me.)
Shared Humanity
))))
Actually, few of Bush's base ride public transit or need to make use of any of the infrastructure improvements that are affected, so it's not going to cause any rethinking about the war in the least.
Let's say there was some pressing need in the combat zone for something like gold-plated toilet seats or platinum hood ornaments for Bentleys. That's when Bush would start to perceive the sacrifices and, most likely, cut the taxes of the rich to offset the pain.
DWD,
It is born.
Adam Alexander R___________. March 1. 10:29 AM. 7# 12oz. 21" long.
Cone.haid.
Maybe Atrios should start a rubber drive in his neighborhood.
Maybe Bush's buddies in the steel industry should be providing their product to the military at cost.
Now excuse me for a moment while I pee my pants laughing.
There are some people that if they don't know you can't tell them.
Can you blog whore someone else' blog?
I wrote a review of a book about another minor cost of war at Echidne's blog this morning.
Instead of driving around picking up all the rubbers, maybe he could just work on getting people to stop littering.
Actually, most condoms are made of latex.
Because it's the gateway to all kinds of unreasonable things.
What am I doing that you find unreasonable?
The next original thought that I have and articulate (that hasn't been borrowed or influenced by those I've interacted with throughout my life) will be the first.
(Does that make me stupid?)
I don't think that many of Bush's "Pioneers" would have made very good real pioneers.
Adam Alexander R___________. March 1. 10:29 AM. 7# 12oz. 21" long.
Let me add my congrats all around!
Though you realize of course that his identity has now been stolen.
Can you blog whore someone else' blog?
No.
That would be called blog pimping.
If you're trying to buy any substantial quantity of stainless steel these days, bend over and grab your ankles.
Dr. Wu
Concrete, too. Jeebus H.
Interestingly enough, these are the things that are doing well in the global markets because of massive development in many regions of the world. Steel, concrete, etc...
If you're trying to buy any substantial quantity of stainless steel these days, bend over and grab your ankles.
Dr. Wu
I read the other day that recycling revenues for items like white goods (household appliances) were skyrocketing, but I didn't put it together until right now.
I just watched the Beatles' Shea Stadium concert on DVD. I shelled out eight bucks for my ticket and then they wouldn't let me go, so it means a lot to me to finally see it, even though it's all grainy and discolored.
Reading from below, I have learned something significant. Apparently Republicans and Muslims (the ones who hate us) have a lot in common. Who knew???
Republicans HATE when people call them out on their crimes, and the crimes of their buddies. I love how the writers imply that it was the tattle tale who was to blame for the guy losing his job, NOT the guy who broke the law!!!! Republicans!!! they are soooo funny.
MAH HAID IZ POINTEE
It is born.
Adam Alexander R___________. March 1. 10:29 AM. 7# 12oz. 21" long.
Cone.haid.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore
Congratulations! New Auntie ?
If you're trying to buy any substantial quantity of stainless steel these days, bend over and grab your ankles.
Dr. Wu
Concrete, too. Jeebus H.
My dildos are made of neither steel nor concrete.
Actually, most condoms are made of latex. dave™©
And Slim Jims are made of silicon?
Maybe Atrios should start a rubber drive in his neighborhood.
IZ 2 LATE
IZ HERE NAO
Vicki,
Give the new parents congratulations from me and the mrs and give the new babe a kiss. Congratulations, auntie.
It is a good day for that anyway.
If you're trying to buy any substantial quantity of stainless steel these days, bend over and grab your ankles.
Dr. Wu
You don't eat stainless. What about wheat?
Congratulations! New Auntie ?
Oui. And Nim is now officially a father.
What do you call a Pontiac Vibe with a dead battery?
A dildo.
"Actually, most condoms are made of latex."
latex isn't rubber?
I'm not saying that you don't have the right to believe in a higher power. I'm just not giving you a "by" because it's all fluffy and shit.
JR, kerosene and a match
OK.
Time for everyone to get their rain gear on!!!
I'm generally sympathetic towards SEPTA in spite of the slings and arrows of outrageous service I've endured over lo, these many decades of riding.
So I won't make the obvious joke that this development will be unnoticed by SEPTA rail riders, who often feel like they've waited four months for their train anyway.
Christ, record prices for wheat and stainless. I'm fucked! A pint of good Ale is going to cost a fortune.
NOT the guy who broke the law!!!!
Half of the guy's columns included stolen work. Half. And they were all voluntary submissions.
Oh, thank goodness, Vicki, I was getting tired of holding my breath. Congrats.
What am I doing that you find unreasonable?
Snow
I don't know, I don't know you that well. I said it was a gateway, not a guarantee.
Maybe Bush's buddies in the steel industry should be providing their product to the military at cost.
If I were, say, a high school drama teacher, I'd have the kids working on productions of "All My Sons" and "The Andersonville Trial."
I wouldn't have a job long, probably...
Thanks for the patience and all the answers to the questions on "light". I understand it better now.
The hamhock is a daddy, that's great. Mazel Tov!
Okay,
Now I can take a shower.
The phone won't ring, and I won't be waiting for Nim's call.
My nephew is officially 2 hours old.
Circle of life...I'm 47.5 years old.
Maybe Atrios should start a rubber drive in his neighborhood.
IZ 2 LATE
IZ HERE NAO
The Baby
LOL!!!
Auntie Vicki and Unky Dunky!
I'm sure they'll both be at the christening!!!
I'm gonna do some work.
LOL!!!
noblejoanie
I know....I'm loving The Baby's posts!
Religion, the gateway to fascism?
Discuss.
I'm sure they'll both be at the christening!!!
dave™©
I kinda doubt there will be a christening....
It is born.
Adam Alexander R___________. March 1. 10:29 AM. 7# 12oz. 21" long.
Cone.haid.
Reagan?
Seriously, just missed being a leap year baby.
Hmm, one can't help but wonder how many New Year's Eve babies will be born after Eschacon 2.
Actually, I noticed a local Catholic high school did "All My Sons" a couple of years ago. Didn't see the show, but I was glad to see someone doing it!
Big Hug, Auntie Vicki.
Maybe Bush's buddies in the steel industry should be providing their product to the military at cost.
They had a whole War Production Board during WWII, to try to keep that raw profiteering in check. They failed.
I kinda doubt there will be a christening....
Sorry, meant the sataning...
My dildos are made of neither steel nor concrete.
rorschach, meh
If they're made of something that can be used to construct filter enclosures for municipal wastewater treatment, I may be interested in buying a few dozen tons.
Of course, I might need to see a demonstration. Do you have a webcam? :P
Christ, record prices for wheat and stainless. I'm fucked! A pint of good Ale is going to cost a fortune.
Shared Humanity
There was a news story some months back about people not returning beer kegs because it was so profitable to sell them for scrap.
Religion, the gateway to fascism?
Discuss.
Shared Humanity | 03.01.08 - 12:39 pm | #
Scientific rationalism: essential to the Holocaust?
Neo-atheism, overdue to become yesterday's fad?
Discuss.
I get a kick out of the fact that the last thing William F. Buckley did was help bring about the destruction of his friend and fellow conservative Tim Goeglein:
"When William F. Buckley died this week, one of my first thoughts was that he’d been friends with Tim, and we would almost certainly have a long, overwrought, superlative-packed column coming down the pike soon, and we’d have ourselves a good time giggling over it. When I saw he had a piece in the paper Thursday, the day after Buckley died, I thought for a second the wait was over, then spotted the headline — Education: Ideas worth defending, honesty of reflective thought — and realized, no, this has been in the pipeline for a while."
http://nancynall.com/2008/02/29/copycat/
In fact, that's how Senator Harry Truman made a national name for himself, was by asking these thieves to account for themselves.
Scientific rationalism: essential to the Holocaust?
rorschach
No.
Next question!
If they're made of something that can be used to construct filter enclosures for municipal wastewater treatment
Oddly enough, they are.
Vicki,
Congratulations to all on the new arrival.
Snow,
Them republicans love to break them some laws, and since he was in the White House, I'm sure he believed George would give him retro-active immunity like the telecom communities.
I think they would like a Constitutional ammendment that laws won't apply to republicans at all.
I'm sure they'll both be at the christening!!!
dave™©
I kinda doubt there will be a christening....
Vick
I've seen these. Not pretty.
The parents crack a bottle of champaign on the baby's head and the kid slides down the boat ramp screaming into the cold water.
They everyone finds out it the kid will float.
Actually, just to continue my pessimistic bent for the day: wheat is not only in flour but in damned near everything else. (As someone allergic to gluten if you don't believe me)
When a base commodity like this escalates in price dramatically EVERYTHING else will do the same.
No.
Next question!
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 12:42 pm | #
Wrong.
Next answer!
Why are you offended by someone believing in a higher power?
Snow
--------------------------------
Because they're much more likely to be impervious to facts.
Neo-atheism, overdue to become yesterday's fad?
No such thing.
Next question?
You don't eat stainless. What about wheat?
Shared Humanity
I think I drink as much wheat as I eat; in either case, I'm worried.
I'm just not giving you a "by" because it's all fluffy and shit.
Whether or not believing in it "harmless", a crock of shit is still a crock of shit. That's my view of astrology, tarot and the like.
Faith is a gateway drug that can lead to heroism.
Late to the amusement, but I wonder if this William Walters is the man doing the sob stories on Tim Googling-got-him-fired.
Here's some joy to share with your new nephew. Hugs, Vicki!
When a base commodity like this escalates in price dramatically EVERYTHING else will do the same.
Beowulf Schaeffer
Stagflation, Baby!
Faith is a gateway drug that can lead to heroism.
We don't need another gyro!
I've seen these. Not pretty.
The parents crack a bottle of champaign on the baby's head and the kid slides down the boat ramp screaming into the cold water.
They everyone finds out it the kid will float.
shawk | 03.01.08 - 12:42 pm | #
And if it floats, it's a witch!
Alls I know is there was an awful lot of holocaust-like behavior going on before scientific rationalism was ever invented. Lot of it in the name of Christ. Pretty much clears up the question for me.
Wrong.
Next answer!
rorschach
Holocaust related to Martin Luther's anti-Semitism, nothing to do with scientific rationalism.
Hitler was a Creationist, also
Next question!
wanna hear about mah frist poop?
I get a kick out of the fact that the last thing William F. Buckley did was help bring about the destruction of his friend and fellow conservative Tim Goeglein
I got a mouthful of bile this morning listening to NicePoliteRepublican radio's Scott Simon wax on about how Buckley was a breath of fresh air now sadly gone.
Late to the amusement, but I wonder if this William Walters is the man doing the sob stories on Tim Googling-got-him-fired.
pseudonymous in nc
Oh, HE looks like a real JOY to be around!
No such thing.
JR, that's one of the common habits of neo-atheists, they think they can control both the language and the discourse. Luckily, most people didn't agree to give them that power. Including the kind of atheists who don't make such assholes of themselves.
Whether or not believing in it "harmless", a crock of shit is still a crock of shit. That's my view of astrology, tarot and the like.
Richard
Ok, you cover the left flank, I'll go for the flag.
Didn't I read that Tim was going to run for public office and he was writing the columns for exposure?
Maybe William was in the running for his chief of staff.
There goes that career.
We don't need another gyro!
Beware of geeks bearing grifts.
Scott Simon wax on about how Buckley was a breath of fresh air
He won't be as much to fellate now that he's dead, eh, Scott?
Congratulations, Aunt Vicki!
Holocaust related to Martin Luther's anti-Semitism, nothing to do with scientific rationalism.
Hitler was a Creationist, also
Next question!
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 12:44 pm | #
Kicked into high gear by ideas like Nordau's. Also couldn't have happened without Taylorized methodologies of modern industrilism.
Next answer!
Including the kind of atheists who don't make such assholes of themselves.
Anthony McCarthy
I'll tell you what, first you explain how "Neo-atheism" differs in any essential way from standard "atheism", and I'll consider not filing you under "twit".
Congrats on the kid.
Does it have an FBI file yet?
Scott Simon wax on about how Buckley was a breath of fresh air
As Hannibal Lecter would say, not anymore.
Fascism dressed up in a witty, urbane package would still smell as sweet.
Police charge key Bhutto suspect
Police in Pakistan have formally charged a Taleban leader, Baitullah Mehsud, with planning the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, officials have said.
Four other men were also charged in the attack on the opposition leader and former prime minister, said the chief investigator, Chaudhry Abdul Majeed.
Next answer!
rorschach
Bullshit.
Creationists use science-y language and "excuses", too, and they are hardly "scientific rationalists".
Late to the amusement, but I wonder if this William Walters is the man doing the sob stories on Tim Googling-got-him-fired.
Interesting connections there.
Later, 'bats
(Enjoy arguing over the Holocaust - sixty some years removed - there probably are more pressing problems facing us. But what do I know?)
Peace.
Scott Simon wax on about how Buckley was a breath of fresh air
Scott Simon's weekly meditation, strongest emetic known to date. He is so full of shit that they could tap him for methane and make a dent in greenhouse gases.
Bullshit.
Creationists use science-y language and "excuses", too, and they are hardly "scientific rationalists".
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 12:48 pm | #
Irrelevant! Double fault!
Including the kind of atheists who don't make such assholes of themselves.
I'd rather be around any kind of atheist than a fundie.
Bill Buckley went out with a fizzle, just like Reagan's second term, just like Goldwater's Presidential run, just like Bush pere and fils.
Does it have an FBI file yet?
He's 2 hours old. There would have to be competence somewhere in the Administration for the FBI to move that quickly.
Kicked into high gear by ideas like Nordau's. Also couldn't have happened without Taylorized methodologies of modern industrilism.
In Rwanda they used machetes and burning tires. All mass produced goods, of course, but the scale of the killing was only smaller because it took place over less time.
JR, that's one of the common habits of neo-atheists, they think they can control both the language and the discourse. Luckily, most people didn't agree to give them that power.
As opposed to the power of keeping "In God We Trust" on money, or the countless other instances of forcing theism down our throats. Funny, I don't remember agreeing to that?
The Baby | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 12:47 pm | #
Baby's a genius! He can already type and read news stories.
Worship me!
Oh, spare me, it's Timmeh discussing his masterful moderation of the debate, sharing his wisdom and table with Mary Matalin, Dee Dee Myers and some bald dude.
He's 2 hours old. There would have to be competence somewhere in the Administration for the FBI to move that quickly.
Carnivore?
Then everyone finds out it the kid will float.
If it floats... A WITCH!
BURN HIM!!!
JR, neo-atheists are the kinds of atheists who beg to be called that by being assholes to everyone else, including what they call "Neville Chamerlain atheists". That is the main difference between an atheist normal people can like and one who is a jerk.
Ron Fournier is the third sychophant at Timmeh's table.
Wish Singin' in the Rain hadn't ended. (Love that final song, You Are My Lucky Star.)
Can you imagine if these knuckleheads had been in charge during WWII?
Irrelevant! Double fault!
rorschach
You can't call that, you are playing, not refereeing.
Argue how you like, the Holocaust was the product of centuries of non-scientific, non-rational prejudice. The behaviour and motivations far pre-dates anything resembling scientific rationalism, no matter what coat yu put on it.
Carnivore?
Not currently.
Weight Watchers should make "news talk shows" like this a part of their program. Certainly an appetite killer.
I'd rather be around any kind of atheist than a fundie.
The only difference I see between some of one and some of the other is the kind of evidence they allow to be considered. Otherwise, adamantly proclaiming the rightness of their own and the wrongness of others' beliefs about ground truth.
'd rather be around any kind of atheist than a fundie.
Terry C - No More Repugs!
I'm not choosy, I avoid all assholes of whatever species.
I'm a pseudoatheist, not to be confused with the quasiatheist, or dodecaatheists.
Can you imagine if these knuckleheads had been in charge during WWII?
"I've got bad news... the president of these United States IS named Schicklegruber!"
JR, neo-atheists are the kinds of atheists who beg to be called that by being assholes to everyone else
And what's "neo" about that, twit?
I'm a crypto-atheist.
I don't believe but I'm hopeful.
Hey, I'm tossing out stuff we can all hate on together.
I'm a uniter.
I avoid all assholes of whatever species.
Anthony McCarthy
There goes your breeding opportunities.
Really, you don't have to believe, or disbelieve, in anything particular to be a fucking asshole.
Afternoon, everybody!
For the record:
I'm a pessimistic agnostic.
I'd like to think there's something holding all of 'this' together, but I doubt it.
The only difference I see between some of one and some of the other is the kind of evidence they allow to be considered.
Yeah... only skeptics actually consider evidence to be meaningful.
I'm a crypto-atheist. I don't believe but I'm hopeful. shawk
I don't believe you're that hopeful.
I'd like to think there's something holding all of 'this' together, but I doubt it.
Gummo
No, that's the physics department, down the hall.
I'm a crypto-atheist.
I find that difficult to understand.
Arguing that the holocaust was due to scientific rationalism is like arguing that Jeffrey's Dahmer's cannibalism was due to the invention of zip-lock bags and the refrigerator.
Hey, I'm tossing out stuff we can all hate on together.
I'm a uniter.
I like your unitering.
JR, neo-atheists are the kinds of atheists who beg to be called that by being assholes to everyone else, including what they call "Neville Chamerlain atheists". That is the main difference between an atheist normal people can like and one who is a jerk.
Anthony McCarthy
By definition, going against the grain, against the overwhelmingly accepted status quo, automatically makes you an "asshole" in the minds of the dominate ideology, or, in this case, theology. Atheists have always had to be the ones to "prove" themselves, are always the ones made to feel inferior, or deluded. This is one thing the majority never gets, whether in matters of religion, gender, or race...
Orange Satan poll:
If you had an extra $3 trillion sitting around, would you:
spend it on a war based on lies and fear-mongering which ultimately weakens your country economically, militarily and diplomatically
spend it on something else
No entry for giving it all to me.
I'm more of an aggressive agnostic myself.
I believe that if any human is capable of interpreting the will of God, then every human can do it.
But when you look around, who the hell could make theological sense of all this crap going on ?
Adam Alexander
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w...h?
v=wmn8qGn5zt8
Now out of the night
New as the dawn into the light
Oh this child, innocent child,
Soft as a fawn
This child is born
One small heart
One pair of eyes
One work of art
Here in my arms
Here he lies
Trusting and warm
Blessed this bond
A child is born
Yeah... only skeptics actually consider evidence to be meaningful. JR
Like I said. Now please to define what you mean by 'evidence.'
Can you imagine if these knuckleheads had been in charge during WWII?
Bush changed his name to Quisling.
Yeah... only skeptics actually consider evidence to be meaningful.
Testimony is evidence. Personal experience is evidence.
Now out of the night
New as the dawn into the light
Oh this child, innocent child,
Soft as a fawn
This child is born
One small heart
One pair of eyes
One work of art
Here in my arms
Here he lies
Trusting and warm
Blessed this bond
A child is born
Can you imagine if these knuckleheads had been in charge during WWII?
The Germans sure can.
i>Really, you don't have to believe, or disbelieve, in anything particular to be a fucking asshole. dave™©
I do believe you're right!
hello moonbats
am rather sad at the moment, my gorgeous cat George has come down with an infection.
he went to the vet earlier, who gave him some penicillin and an aspirin type drug, plus another injection to reduce his temperature.
so he's not feeling 100%
but all his major organs are fine and he's not dehydrated
am rather sad at the moment, my gorgeous cat George has come down with an infection.
Tuna and cream. STAT!
.. only skeptics actually consider evidence to be meaningful.
JR, kerosene and a match
"Skeptics", of the kind you're talking about are some of the biggest frauds in pop culture today. They aren't skeptical about anything, they know exactly what everyone else is supposed to think and, by no great conincidence, it's exactly what they think.
Ever heard of George Moore JR?
The only difference I see between some of one and some of the other is the kind of evidence they allow to be considered.
Well, when one side requires none, that's a rather significant difference.
Hey Moon,
Sorry for George. You did seem worried yesterday. Looks like you got him cared for in time.
Like I said. Now please to define what you mean by 'evidence.'
JeffCO
Stuff that exists no matter how hard you want it to go away.
Then slice it with Occam's razor.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
but all his major organs are fine and he's not dehydrated
Well, that's good. Hopefully, the antibiotics will work quickly, and he'll soon be back to his old self.
well, you guys in philly are sacrificing then, see it's a good thing
ooooo anarchist cookbook found with ricin in hotel...NOT FUCKING NEWS. what is news? that our media keeps bleating surge success EXACTLY like they bleated about iraq before the war
Like I said. Now please to define what you mean by 'evidence.'
JeffCO
See what I mean?
Those who believe in a gigantic pink elephant floating around in outer space don't have to prove it exists. They just have "faith."
Atheists have always had to be the ones to "prove" themselves, are always the ones made to feel inferior, or deluded. This is one thing the majority never gets, whether in matters of religion, gender, or race...
Elias, Pud pounder.
You are correct.
How many polls have I seen of late which state that people would never vote for an atheist?
Too many to count.
Those who believe in a gigantic pink elephant floating around in outer space don't have to prove it exists. They just have "faith."
Elias, Pud pounder.
Actually, it's 4 elephants, standing on the back of a giant space turtle.
Oops, wrong mythology.
Then slice it with Occam's razor
Irony of the day. William of Occam was a strict Franciscian who believed in the authenticity of Francis' stigmata. He, JR, was a theist.
Stuff that exists no matter how hard you want it to go away.
Then slice it with Occam's razor.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 12:58 pm | #
So Popperian.
I believe that I am the kwisatz haderach.
Then slice it with Occam's razor.
I knew someone who had a brazil wax done with Occam's razor. Talk about parsimony!
Actually, it's 4 elephants, standing on the back of a giant space turtle.
Oops, wrong mythology.
Gummo | 03.01.08 - 1:00 pm | #
It's turtles all the way down.
Madeleine Murray O'Hair didn't help matters either.
Atheism is a religion.
Those who believe in a gigantic pink elephant floating around in outer space don't have to prove it exists.
What if Neil Armstrong saw a gigantic pink elephant floating around in outer space? Would his eyewitness account count as evidence?
"Skeptics", of the kind you're talking about are some of the biggest frauds in pop culture today. They aren't skeptical about anything, they know exactly what everyone else is supposed to think and, by no great conincidence, it's exactly what they think.
Horseshit. That's not an argument, that's a baseless assertion.
Ever heard of George Moore JR?
Anthony McCarthy
No. Skepticism is not a religion, we don't have saints or leaders or prophets.
Testimony is evidence. Personal experience is evidence.
Snow (D-SC)
But that testimony and personal experience has to be grounded in some sort of empirical evidence. Otherwise, the nonsensical ramblings of a lobotomy victim would be "evidence."
Say, how many atheists can fit on the head of a pin?
Actually, it's 4 elephants, standing on the back of a giant space turtle.
Are they African or Asian elephants? I can't evaluate the value of the religion unless I know.
The one who can be many places at once?
But -- can you transmute the Water of Life?
Madeleine Murray O'Hair didn't help matters either.
plantsman, persona non grata
Say what you will about the old crook, she, at least, was fun to listen to.
ooooo anarchist cookbook found with ricin in hotel...NOT FUCKING NEWS.
Don't worry, no terrorist threat there. If you're right-wing psychopath, you can't be terrorist, essentially by definition.
Let's say that I believe I'll have another beer.
Then I have another beer.
Is that evidence?
(Just trying to muddle things up a bit)
Madeleine Murray O'Hair didn't help matters either.
Well, her disappearance did inspire an episode of Law & Order.
Actually, it's 4 elephants, standing on the back of a giant space turtle.
Are they African or Asian elephants? I can't evaluate the value of the religion unless I know.
leibniz♘☮ | 03.01.08 - 1:02 pm | #
Plus, the turtle v. tortoise controversy rages on.
Testimony is evidence. Personal experience is evidence.
You're jumping ahead in my argument. Staking out an extremely 'rational' position as the only measure of reality or truth essentially negates the validity of other senses of knowing that humans experience. Any hardcore faith-based human will explain patiently to you exactly the same thing the rationalist does, only subbing in some other concept for rationality.
And both will insist that the evidence of the rightness of their beliefs is all around should you only look, chafe at the characterization of what they know to be true as beliefs, and steadfastly insist that even though the other group may appear similar superficially to themselves, in reality only they have the correct filter and method for evaluating truth.
What if Neil Armstrong saw a gigantic pink elephant floating around in outer space? Would his eyewitness account count as evidence?
Snow (D-SC)
Spectral evidence.
Austin's growing class of rich outsiders are really into density.
Everybody needs to fit into as concentrated a space as possible so that people will forget how to drive and just waddle over to the Machine when they need to be somewhere and stick their Main Cable in and have done with it.
No more me. No more me.
Otherwise, the nonsensical ramblings of a lobotomy victim would be "evidence."
Witnesses have credibility. You decide for yourself how credible a witness they are. Their testimony is still evidence whether you choose to believe it or not.
The one who can be many places at once?
But -- can you transmute the Water of Life?
plantsman, persona non grata
Alas, I tried and died.
watched La Vie En Rose last night, pretty good film.
i can see why Marion Cotillard won an Oscar and a BAFTA for Best Actress
of course one cannot resit doing an impression of Edith Piaf's signature song.
What if Neil Armstrong saw a gigantic pink elephant floating around in outer space? Would his eyewitness account count as evidence?
Snow (D-SC)
Waitaminit.
You haven't even been elected yet but you got to see the secret files!?
[hastily adjusts tinfoil hat, hides under desk]
Plus, the turtle v. tortoise controversy rages on
Ah yes, that inspired the 33.33333 years war.
Madeleine Murray O'Hair didn't help matters either.
In her case, it helped being a crook.
He, JR, was a theist.
Anthony McCarthy
So fucking what?
Newton was into Alchemy.
Linnaeus was a Creationist.
Linus Pauling thought that vitamin C could cure cancer.
A good idea doesn't fail because the source is imperfect. That's what is called an ad hominem attack, and it's a logical fallacy.
The idea is that you can WALK to get the business of your daily life done.
If O'Hair hadn't been a communist, too, she would have been more successful.
She was also physically ugly, so that hurt the cause as well.
You're jumping ahead in my argument.
Oops. Sorry. With no way to consult, it is bound to happen. My apologies.
But that testimony and personal experience has to be grounded in some sort of empirical evidence.
Empirical evidence like flying a plane into a building based on your perception of reality? Or empirical evidence like living in a shack and sending mail bombs to technocrats based on your perception of reality?
If you believe certain words, you believe their hidden arguments. When you believe something is right or wrong, true or false, you believe the assumptions in the words which express the arguments. Such assumptions are usually full of holes, but remain most precious to the convinced.
"Skeptics", of the kind you're talking about are some of the biggest frauds in pop culture today. They aren't skeptical about anything, they know exactly what everyone else is supposed to think and, by no great conincidence, it's exactly what they think.
Horseshit. That's not an argument, that's a baseless assertion.
Not baseless. Two words: Michael Shermer.
You haven't even been elected yet but you got to see the secret files!?
You mean it is true! Got room under that desk for one more?
It may be possible to subdivide the generic term "athiest" into atheists and antitheists-- the latter being those who not only reject the concept of a supernatural Supreme Being, but ("assholishly" in the view of some beholders) stridently and vociferously argue that theism is innately pathological and socially destructive.
But "neo-atheist" doesn't get the job done.
Plus, the turtle v. tortoise controversy rages on
Ah yes, that inspired the 33.33333 years war.
leibniz♘☮
Was there a single of the album issued on 45?
JR, read something other than Demon Haunted World. That's another common trait of neo-atheists, they mistake that cut and paste Sagan tome as a textbook of logic.
So, did you ever read G.E. Moore?
And both will insist that the evidence of the rightness of their beliefs is all around should you only look, chafe at the characterization of what they know to be true as beliefs, and steadfastly insist that even though the other group may appear similar superficially to themselves, in reality only they have the correct filter and method for evaluating truth.
JeffCO
the difference is that you don't need to have any given set of preconceptions to see actual evidence.
A Hindu biologist can look at the Hox gene complex and see the same thing as an atheist biologist or a Christian biologist.
Reality is a common ground.
What if Neil Armstrong saw a gigantic pink elephant floating around in outer space? Would his eyewitness account count as evidence?
Snow (D-SC)
Then it's very possible that I too was floating in that exact spot at that exact moment and didn't see the pink elephant that he claimed to see.
You see the problem with pushing the bounds of fantasy and fact? Unfortunately, I don't think you do.
The bottom line is that it is the theist that still believes in the Pink Elephant.
Stuff that exists no matter how hard you want it to go away.
Like belief in a higher power?
post atheist 
Here's you an afternoon project, click on the sept.11invest. link, are large PDF, Insurance investigators lay out the financial infrastructure of Al Qudia. Shows what a white wash the 9/11 Report gave the Saudi's.
http://journals.democraticunderg...com/leveymg/
352
Some people here are confusing ontology with epistomology. And as any good ethologist knows, our species' view of reality is limited.
She was also physically ugly, so that hurt the cause as well.
And you're a sexist jerkoff.
Austin's growing class of rich outsiders are really into density.
Everybody needs to fit into as concentrated a space as possible so that people will forget how to drive and just waddle over to the Machine
amazing how ignorant the deluded are, this tr00l fuck wants his endless suburbia and believes that community leads to conformity...hey dumbfuck, have you noticed that culture only exists in dense cities?
JR, read something other than Demon Haunted World. That's another common trait of neo-atheists, they mistake that cut and paste Sagan tome as a textbook of logic.
So, did you ever read G.E. Moore?
Anthony McCarthy
I've never read "The Demon Haunted World", or G E Moore.
So stuff your preconceptions where they'll do some good, like in the compost.
the difference is that you don't need to have any given set of preconceptions to see actual evidence.
Certainly, if you limit evidence to what you can see. But you can't see a car wreck happen if you aren't there. But an eyewitness account is still evidence.
Reality is a common ground.
You persist in insisting there is a reality separate from beliefs and filters and measuring tools. As does any faith-based thinker.
Like belief in a higher power?
JeffCO
It's not unversal, so obviously it can "go away".
the difference is that you don't need to have any given set of preconceptions to see actual evidence.
A Hindu biologist can look at the Hox gene complex and see the same thing as an atheist biologist or a Christian biologist.
Reality is a common ground.
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:07 pm | #
I'm an atheist, but I don't buy this for a minute. I'm with Kuhn and Feyerabend--we do not and cannot have direct access to an objective "reality."
an interesting blog - Financial Armageddon
Insights on debt, derivatives, government guarantees, the retirement system, and the coming economic unraveling.
Certainly, if you limit evidence to what you can see. But you can't see a car wreck happen if you aren't there. But an eyewitness account is still evidence.
Snow (D-SC)
Do you wish to take the Red pill or the Blue one?
mogwai:
have you noticed that culture only exists in dense cities?
The culture of sardinery and being subject to other peoples' filthy and annoying habits?
I don't need constant company to validate my human being, loser.
fear market handjob: "microsoft cuts price of vista by 48% but not in US"
the difference is that you don't need to have any given set of preconceptions to see actual evidence.
That's entirely untrue. You couldn't deal with any evidence without all kinds of preconceptions, including criteria for deciding if something was reliable enough to be considered evidence to begin with. That's a third common trait, a total ignorance of the most basic requirements of science. Science is able to deal only with physical evidence that can be observed, quantified, analyzed and reviewed. Science can't be done about most of human experience since there isn't any means to deal with it due to either complexity or insufficent observational ability. It doesn't mean that those things don't exist, just that science can't be done with them.
Like belief in a higher power?
You're just TRYING to cause trouble, aren't you?
Then it's very possible that I too was floating in that exact spot at that exact moment and didn't see the pink elephant that he claimed to see.
No, that is not possible. Matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time. You would have been in a different spot at the same time. And, therefore, you might not have been able to see the gigantic pink elephant. But that would not mean it did not exist as witnessed by Armstrong.
But that testimony and personal experience has to be grounded in some sort of empirical evidence. Otherwise, the nonsensical ramblings of a lobotomy victim would be "evidence."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tra...s/
2812mind.html
John Sharon has temporal lobe epilepsy.
JOHN SHARON: The seizures involve my person and my soul and my spirit, all of it. When I get one of those feelings my whole body just tingles and I just, oh...that's that.
NARRATOR: John's epileptic seizures are essentially an electrical storm in his temporal lobes when a group of neurons starts firing at random, out of sync with rest of his brain.
Recently John experienced one of his worst episodes to date. He'd gone out to the desert with a girlfriend, and they'd both got very drunk, with disastrous results. John was suddenly hit by a volley of seizures, each one lasted about five minutes and involved violent convulsions that left him unconscious. Eventually, John managed to get a call through to his father who drove out to the desert to bring him home.
JOHN SHARON: On the way home, him and I got just into some philosophical questions about everything. And I just would not shut up once I...on the way home I was going and going. It was like I was wired.
JOHN SHARON, SR.: It's basically an earthquake within the body, and like any earthquake there are aftershocks. And like any earthquake that does damage, things have to be rebuilt. Things have to subside. Mainly what I deal with is the aftermath, particularly with this last episode. It was very much like stepping into a Salvador Dali painting. Instantly everything was surreal. And that's, in essence, what his seizures are all about—the aftermath—where it puts his brain, where it puts his memory, where it puts his mind, his thinking ability, everything else.
NARRATOR: When John's seizures came to an end he was exhausted but he felt omnipotent.
JOHN SHARON: I went running down the streets screaming that I was God. And then this guy came out and I just, like, pelvic thrust at him and his wife, and I was like, "You want to f—ing bet, I ain't God?"
JOHN SHARON SR.: And I said, literally, "You asshole, get back in here! What do you think you're doing? You're disturbing the neighbors. They're gonna call the cops. What is this all about?"
That is to say, don't fence me in, motherfucker.
I like space to be at peace in.
Fuck your urbanism.
You persist in insisting there is a reality separate from beliefs and filters and measuring tools. As does any faith-based thinker.
JeffCO
Nothing to do with "faith". What you are arguing for is purely solipsism, and that is wanking for the highest order.
I do believe that even if there were no humans around the universe would still be here, bumbling on without us.
Whish "side" is committed to "shaping their own reality"?
Do you wish to take the Red pill or the Blue one?
Red, please.
Comment by Toby Petzold blocked.
Wonderful thing, killfile.
yeah, putzold culture is garbage, but not art museums, performing art theatres, operas...you as deluded need to vote for the fascists and STFU
It's not unversal, so obviously it can "go away".
And yet for as far back as recorded history, it hasn't. Why is that, do you suppose? Some kind of evolutionary advantage?
That is to say, don't fence me in, motherfucker.
I like space to be at peace in.
Fuck your urbanism.
Toby Petzold | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:13 pm | #
Then move to fucking west Texas and shut the fuck up.
Feyerabend, bless you rorsch. I miss the days when you could discuss ideas like that without jerks trying to shut you up.
Before CSICOP became the thought police.
Watching "Funny Lady" on TCM.
James Caan looked soooooooo hot.
The fewer people the better. That is the basis of my political philosophy.
That is to say, don't fence me in, motherfucker.
I like space to be at peace in.
Fuck your urbanism.
Toby Petzold
You can just feel a soul at peace from here, can't'cha?
I'm an atheist, but I don't buy this for a minute. I'm with Kuhn and Feyerabend--we do not and cannot have direct access to an objective "reality."
Much less Kant. And, e.g., bats have a different reality from ours.
Give Flowbie his room to fuck barnyard animals.
What you are arguing for is purely solipsism, and that is wanking for the highest order.
That is not true, and is a cop out.
What you are arguing for is purely solipsism, and that is wanking for the highest order.
And what you are doing is taking my and others' words, redefining them according to your own belief system, and then discounting them as irrelevant, uninformed, or simply wrong. Which also looks like pretty high-order wanking to me.
I've been in Austin forever. This is my home.
Tell the auslanders to get out.
woohoo, more violins in gaza...nice furrin policy
I like space to be at peace in.
Translation: I hate other people and would rather be all by my lonesome.
we do not and cannot have direct access to an objective "reality."
rorschach
True. But that doesn't mean that there isn't an objective reality, or that subjectivve is of equal value to objective.
What laughable presumption. I don't regard that shit as culture. I regard it as cultural affectation. And expensive affectation at that.
That is not true, and is a cop out.
rorschach, meh
It's Sagan talk.
True. But that doesn't mean that there isn't an objective reality
You have to have faith?
Translation: other people hate me and won't allow me near them.
Fricasseed yonder telegraph...
In all major socializing forces you will find an underlying movenment to gain and maintain power through the use of words.
James Caan looked soooooooo hot.
Terry C - No More Repugs
He checked in a wonderful performance as Sonny Corleone, but he looked about as Italian as Red Buttons.
Whish "side" is committed to "shaping their own reality"?
Heisenberg's?
And what you are doing is taking my and others' words, redefining them according to your own belief system,
Which is exactly what you are doing.
Gordon Brown is facing the threat of his first defeat in the Commons since taking over as prime minister, after a Guardian survey found strong - and growing - opposition among Labour MPs to the government's plans to detain terror suspects without charge for up to 42 days.
As the Labour party gathers in Birmingham for its spring conference, where ministers will be lobbied by opponents of the planned anti-terrorism laws, the Guardian found as many as a third of the party's 205 backbench MPs could rebel against the government.
Brown has a Commons majority of 67 which means the government could be defeated if 34 Labour MPs rebel, assuming every opposition MP votes no.
The Guardian contacted all 205 backbench Labour MPs. Of the 78 MPs spoken to, 27 said they were planning to vote against the government. Twenty-nine said they would support the government, while a further 22 were undecided or would not comment.
If this pattern is replicated among the other 127 backbench Labour MPs, there may be a further 43 rebels. This would take the total to 70, though even the rebels believe that figure is unlikely.
The Guardian found that opposition extends beyond the "usual suspects" of the 23-strong Socialist Campaign group.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
politi...errorism.labour
True. But that doesn't mean that there isn't an objective reality, or that subjectivve is of equal value to objective.
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:16 pm | #
So you believe in something that we epistemologically cannot have access to?
Hmm...
Objectivity is a human invention, it doesn't exist outside of human culture. It is a construct for which no objective evidence exists.
There's no use arguing this.
The atheist will always be wrong, the theist will always be right because the theist has the one thing the atheist lacks --- faith.
With faith, anything's possible.
I once had a argument with a catholic priest. I asked him if a person who lived a righteous life, even though an atheist, whether this person would go to "heaven"? He said no way.
As an atheist, I find this insulting and arrogant. I have a tremeduous amount of faith...faith in family, faith in friends, faith in the goodness of human beings, etc. I don't try or want to change others beliefs. I just ask that I not be made to feel the outcast, the delusional one...
Translation: other people hate me and won't allow me near them.
Fricasseed yonder telegraph...
Yet, both of y'all have killfiled the fucker allegedly so you can ignore it.
Can't someone come up with a vaccine for chronic Palestinianism?
Isn't there some Arab-specific segment on some chromosome somewhere that can be adjusted and sprayed for?
James Caan looked soooooooo hot.
Terry C - No More Repugs
He checked in a wonderful performance as Sonny Corleone, but he looked about as Italian as Red Buttons.
MP |
Never understood that casting!
A blond Jewish guy playing an Italian guy?
Incidentally, this movie I'm watching now......I love the clothes from the 1930s and 1940s.
And the cars.
From witch doctor to preist to bureaucrat it is all the same. A governed populace must be conditioned to accept power-words as actual things, to confuse the symbolized system with the tangible universe.
He said no way.
By his own catechism, he was wrong.
everytime you mention mccain, mention bush. W is a 3rd rail for repugnicants, and no that shock doesn't give life, it takes it away
good on you dems, stick mcstain as attached at the hip to W
Even the term atheism is loaded since it presumes the default setting to be theism.
I got religion in my heart. The real stuff. I have no need of the Demiurge.
You have to have faith?
Snow
Well, I don't see axioms as being opf the same order as "faith"
After all, mathematics is not the purview of seminaries.
I once had a argument with a catholic priest. I asked him if a person who lived a righteous life, even though an atheist, whether this person would go to "heaven"? He said no way.
Elias, Pud pounder
Elias, I went through 12 years of that bullshit.
The sexism and arrogance of the people in that church are two of the main reasons I left.
He checked in a wonderful performance as Sonny Corleone, but he looked about as Italian as Red Buttons.
IIRC, he was the adopted son
Which is exactly what you are doing. JR
Well then clearly your superior rationality has once again defeated all comers! I bow to your superior ego.
True. But that doesn't mean that there isn't an objective reality
You have to have faith?
Snow (D-SC)
Can't you see the "aura of evil" about the woman?
I'll bet you think the emperor has no clothes.
we have the CoE here but it turns out lots of atheists, agnostics etc.
actually I wonder if having a state Church somehow tempers the more extreme elements of religion or at least neutralised it
I went to a CoE Primary School and i'm not particularly religious or spiritual in the slightest
It's not unversal, so obviously it can "go away".
When I used to participate on the newsgroup alt.atheism, there were Christians who'd come in and tell us that there are no such thing as atheists. You see, you and I are basically "Closet Christians". We "know in our hearts" that Jesus is our lord and savior, but we are merely denying him for the moment so we can have some sinful fun in the meantime.
In these folk's minds, all they had to do was quote the right Bible verses to make us collapse in guilt and beg Jesus for forgiveness. What a crock of shit.
Some Catholics believe salvation can only be had through faith and good works.
Some Protestants believe salvation can be had through faith alone.
They would argue that if you truly have faith, then you will do good works.
The flip side of that argument is that if you do good works, you must have faith in some form.
"Red Buttons", nee Rossi Tasti, was born in Sorrento to parents belonging to an itinerant troupe of circus folk... (Fakipedia entry)
Well then clearly your superior rationality has once again defeated all comers! I bow to your superior ego.
JeffCO
C'mon, that's not an argument, that's a baselss assertion.
you can do better.
"have you noticed that culture only exists in dense cities?
mogwai"
...the original bluegrass or blues musicians would perhaps disagree.
I went to a CoE Primary School and i'm not particularly religious or spiritual in the slightest
i went to 13 years of catholic indoctrination, was an altar boy (no one touched me we itralians USE the catholic church, we have had centuries of living under it to know where the bullshit is
So you believe in something that we epistemologically cannot have access to?
Hmm...
rorschach
Axiomatically, not "faith".
Well, I don't see axioms as being opf the same order as "faith"
Yes, but you're limiting evidence to just your own experiences. I can describe a car accident I witnessed, but I can't make you see it.
Which is exactly what you are doing. JR
C'mon, that's not an argument, that's a baselss assertion.
you can do better.
I asked him if a person who lived a righteous life, even though an atheist, whether this person would go to "heaven"? He said no way.
Oh - another thing.
A serial killer or a mob boss?
They can do the most vile stuff for their entire lives, but because they have the last rites and confess their sins, all is forgiven?
For the longest time, they refused to bury a suicide in "consecrated ground" (I think Pope John XXIII put a stop to that).
And don't get me started on "limbo", which they just did away with.
So you believe in something that we epistemologically cannot have access to?
Hmm...
rorschach
Axiomatically, not "faith".
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:24 pm | #
C'mon. That's mere semantics.
The original blues singers in the rural areas would play what they had to play. I can't remember the dudes name right now, but he taught Leadbelly how to play guitar the same way he did, but most of his rural gigs he didn't play the blues and he more or less started it. They would play anything while in rural areas, they had to play what they liked.
JOHN SHARON SR.: And I said, literally, "You asshole, get back in here! What do you think you're doing? You're disturbing the neighbors. They're gonna call the cops. What is this all about?"
Richard
Great post.
Just checking in to see if there was any baby news, and there was :D
Congratulations all around!!!!
And don't get me started on "limbo", which they just did away with.
All those nekkid nuns with hula hoops was pretty neat.
For the longest time, they refused to bury a suicide in "consecrated ground" (I think Pope John XXIII put a stop to that).
The Church so desperately needs another John XXIII (rather than a Pope Ratzi)...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ghSJsEVf0pU
Anyone heard this Obama chant video?
Reactions?
Elias, I went through 12 years of that bullshit.
The sexism and arrogance of the people in that church are two of the main reasons I left.
Terry C - No More Repugs!
Yes, I was raised Catholic too. I knew this flameup would happen. Never fails when it comes to religion...
William's still at it:
William Walters Says:
March 1st, 2008 at 12:39 pm
To All:
The following is a STARK contrast to what today’s media has become. There’s a great deal to reflect upon in these enlightened words. Journalists, commentators, bloggers and others should take note.
“Mrs. Eddy had been thinking about a newspaper for a long time before 1907. Way back in 1883 she wrote: ‘Looking over the newspapers of the day, one naturally reflects that it is dangerous to live, so loaded with disease seems the very air. These descriptions carry fears to many minds, to be depicted in some future time upon the body. A periodical of our own will counteract to some extent this public nuisance; for through our paper we shall be able to reach many homes with healing, purifying thought.”
[looks skyward while heavenly angels sing alleluia]
Yes, but you're limiting evidence to just your own experiences. I can describe a car accident I witnessed, but I can't make you see it.
Snow
No, I'm not.
I don't even trust my own "experience" as being "true".
That's part of being a skeptic.
Anyone see the Ron Paul youtube video with the tattoo girl and and suicide girls screaming way too much??
Please sir! I want to get my mind right. I am bad. dik cheney is the paradigm model of good. Please sir!
Are you just a brain in a vat, Jr?
C'mon. That's mere semantics.
rorschach
Not afer Occam is done with it.
john stewart on W's reprimand of turkey's incursion into northern iraq was sublime...
W: "turkey needs to achieve their objective and leave quickly"
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
they truly are too dumb to breathe and speak at the same time
Are you just a brain in a vat, Jr?
Everyone on the internet is a brain in a jar, until demonstrated otherwise.
Somebody is citing Mary Baker Eddy as a voice for civility?
I don't even trust my own "experience" as being "true".
That doesn't mean they aren't true. How much reality is involved in rejecting truth you've experienced?
I once had a argument with a catholic priest. I asked him if a person who lived a righteous life, even though an atheist, whether this person would go to "heaven"? He said no way.
I had a friend who became a fundamentalist. At one point, I asked him "Where do babies go if they die before they can even know who Jesus is?".
Answer: Babies go to Hell, and deservedly so. Baby or not, if you haven't accepted Jesus into your heart, you are an evil, sinful monster who should recieve eternal punishment.
Somebody is citing Mary Baker Eddy as a voice for civility?
"Faith" is not the problem.
It is simply the tool. The quantum physicist uses faith when investigating questions of chaos, etc...
Sonny wasn't adopted. He was the first born. You're thinking of Tom Hagen, the consigliere, played by Robert Duvall.
Not afer Occam is done with it.
That is subjective.
Elias, that's why I wasn't the one to religion into the discussion. I've yet to meet a neo-atheist who will discuss things on a strictly rational basis without bringing all kinds of irrelevant religious snark into it. Something non-ideological atheists don't seem to have any trouble avoiding, though most of those I know aren't very interested in either religion or atheism. Like most normal people they've got other things to spend their time doing.
Tim's true blue friend, William Walters.
That doesn't mean they aren't true.
But without self-doubt you can't know that they are true, either.
Real skpticism is about dancing on a razor.
Anyone heard this Obama chant video
whatever, it was done by a 527
In these folk's minds, all they had to do was quote the right Bible verses to make us collapse in guilt and beg Jesus for forgiveness. What a crock of shit.
Richard | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:22 pm | #
Common theory of modern "orthodox" or fundies is that without all sorts of religious restrictions, humans would naturally spend all day and night furtively soliciting sex in toilets.
I've yet to meet a neo-atheist who will discuss things on a strictly rational basis without bringing all kinds of irrelevant religious snark into it.
So you create your own circular definition of "neo-atheist". How sweet.
C'mon, that's not an argument, that's a baseless assertion.
Which room is Getting Hit on the Head lessons?
Real skpticism is about dancing on a razor.
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:31 pm | #
Real skepticism is about flirting with a platypus.
Objectively speaking, of course.
Which room is Getting Hit on the Head lessons?
dave™©
Down the hall, next to "Physics".
But without self-doubt you can't know that they are true, either.
And thus we have the great mystery of life.
Objectively speaking, of course.
rorschach
I tried that.
Who knew that platypuses hate chocolate?
Great post.
As it turns out, there is some evidence that certain famous religious figures from history may have suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy, Paul and Mohammed among them.
And thus we have the great mystery of life.
Snow
The great mystery is how the non-self-doubters accuse the skptics of being egotistically certain.
Real skpticism is about dancing on a razor.
JR, kerosene and a match
Real skepticism takes a critical look at the things that pseudo-skeptics like you are afraid to consider, like the limits of science and the fact that no one, not even skeptics don't constantly rely on what they don't know to be true on the basis of faith in something or someone. Pretending that everyone doesn't leads to arrogance, it doesn't lead to accuracy or reliability of knowledge.
The sexism and arrogance of the people in that church are two of the main reasons I left.
Try being a catholic unwed mother in 1968.
Truly, truly, foul people.
I once had a argument with a catholic priest. I asked him if a person who lived a righteous life, even though an atheist, whether this person would go to "heaven"? He said no way.
I had a friend who became a fundamentalist. At one point, I asked him "Where do babies go if they die before they can even know who Jesus is?".
Answer: Babies go to Hell, and deservedly so. Baby or not, if you haven't accepted Jesus into your heart, you are an evil, sinful monster who should recieve eternal punishment.
Richard
One of two reasons I renounce and reject Jesus Christ as "my Savior".
The second is the things people in power have done, do, and will do in his name.
Same goes for all other the deistic faiths. Every single one of them.
I like this from the Fort Wayne paper Goegling "wrote" for:
An internal investigation begun Friday has revealed that since 2000, Goeglein plagiarized 20 of 38 columns The News-Sentinel published. A review of his columns prior to 2000 continues. According to Editor & Publisher, an industry publication, Goeglein also was discovered to have plagiarized in writings published by The Washington Post and The New York Sun. He lifted material without proper attribution from sources including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and New York Sun. He even went as far as to use a quote from Pope John Paul II as his own...
On April 6, 2005, Roger Cohen wrote in The New York Times: “It was based in the belief that, as he (the pope) once put it, ‘a degradation, indeed a pulverization, of the fundamental uniqueness of each human being' was at the root of the mass movements of the 20th century, Communism and Fascism,”
In a column published Oct. 18, 2005, Goeglein wrote: “A degradation and pulverization of the fundamental uniqueness of each human being was at the root of the 20th century, the twin evils of communism and fascism.” No attribution is given to the pope or to Cohen in the column.
Paul is the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity.
I tried that.
Who knew that platypuses hate chocolate?
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:33 pm | #
Don't be racist.
It may have just been that one platypus who hated chocolate.
Your hasty generalizations are offensive, sirrah!
The flip side of that argument is that if you do good works, you must have faith in some form.
They'd have to then argue that my 25 year career has been a farce.
Yes, but you're limiting evidence to just your own experiences. I can describe a car accident I witnessed, but I can't make you see it.
Snow (D-SC)
The point is that the car accident is something grounded in reality, it is something we can all relate to. A gigantic pink elephant floating in deep space might be something we can relate to in the sense that we know pink, we know an elephant, but that's it.
Real skepticism takes a critical look at the things that pseudo-skeptics like you are afraid to consider
yep, you're in the "twit" file.
I just bought my first thing on Amazon.
So quit arguing.
So you create your own circular definition of "neo-atheist". How sweet.
JR, kerosene and a match
JR, I doubt most people would argue with my definition of a neo-atheist as a person who begs for the name due to their being an asshole. For other atheists, no neo- needed.
accuse the skptics of being egotistically certain.
But that is the definition of atheism, an atheist is saying they are sure, usually very egotistically.
Your hasty generalizations are offensive, sirrah!
rorschach
yes, well the Sharks have a few things to say about you, bigot!
My stupid outside take on St. Augustine's philosophy, is that a life of good works means bupkis. You still need to glom God's grace.
So you create your own cir--
Jesus fucking Christ, put a goddam sock in it already.
Paul is the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity.
Righm blame Paul...not that he isn't a misogynist.
The source of the problem is not in Paul per se, but in human beings who fail to examine their own minds and motives.
yes, well the Sharks have a few things to say about you, bigot!
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:36 pm | #
The Levi-Straussian in me has to ask: the raw or the cooked?
Every religion is by definition arrogant because they are convinced they are the only ones that are right.
JR, I doubt most people would argue with my definition of a neo-atheist as a person who begs for the name due to their being an asshole.
Evidence?
so the media mantra that 'security' and terra are the sole domain of the fascists, by using poll numbers only...not facts such as 2 stupid fucking wars that ain't done shit but cost trillions, a destabilized pakistan, a fuck up in gaza, kosovo and serbia splitting up russia going wild
keep bleating to me that the american sheep think the repugnicants are strong on national security
Neo-atheist = needless neologism.
Oh shit. The opera started half an hour early and I missed it due to wasting time with JR.
The Levi-Straussian in me has to ask: the raw or the cooked?
rorschach
Ha, you poser! The proper question is "lemon or butter?"
Every religion is by definition arrogant because they are convinced they are the only ones that are right.
ErinPDX | 03.01.08 - 1:38 pm | #
Wrong!
[ducks]
C'mon, folks...sing along to "Do Right Woman" with me!
In all major socializing forces you will find an underlying movenment to gain and maintain power through the use of words.
For any computable enumeration operator Φ there is a recursively enumerable set A such that Φ(A) = A and A is the smallest set with this property.
Neo-atheist = needless neologism.
rorschach
I'm pretty sure that's what I said at the beginning of this farce.
Oh shit. The opera started half an hour early and I missed it due to wasting time with JR.
Don't fall into the orchestra pit!
The great mystery is how the non-self-doubters accuse the skptics of being egotistically certain.
I don't think that. Certainly never said it.
The point is that the car accident is something grounded in reality, it is something we can all relate to.
And yet, eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. But you can only relate to it through your own experience. You will never be able to see the car accident I saw. I can only describe it to you. Then you apply your experience to my description.
All I said was Paul is the worst thing to happen to Christianity. I didn't blame him, I didn't not blame the people who used him.
I simply stated a fact.
the U.S. government has cornered the market; it is using the steel for armoring vehicles bound for Iraq,
Would it be completely out of line to suggest that Americans begin donating their Hummers to be melted down into vehicles bound for Iraq?
For any computable enumeration operator Φ there is a recursively enumerable set A such that Φ(A) = A and A is the smallest set with this property.
Godfrey Harold Hardy | 03.01.08 - 1:40 pm | #
Duh.
I just remain astounded that there are still people who think that writing out checks to greasy evangelists is what the Flying Spaghetti Monster had in mind.
Wow, fifteen minutes ago a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door -- and when I check back in at Eschaton, it's a religion thread. It must be a sign from God.
Like I said earlier, you don't have to believe or disbelieve in anything in particular to be a FUCKING ASSHOLE.
Well, I tried to whore this a while ago & was upstaged by the birth of a baby (which is as it should be).
Perhaps this is a better time for my rock-n-roll hit, 'Lay Down'. It's got cars and seeing in it, so it's kinda germane...
The Larch
Neo-atheist = needless neologism.
rorschach
What do you propose to call the kind of atheist who makes a constant asshole of themself over it?
I'd look up the etymology of the term but I'm on my brother's Mac and I don't really know how to use it.
The worst thing to happen to Christianity, annie, is its institutionalization.
The only thing this argument is missing is NTodd.
What do you propose to call the kind of atheist who makes a constant asshole of themself over it?
I'd look up the etymology of the term but I'm on my brother's Mac and I don't really know how to use it.
Anthony McCarthy | 03.01.08 - 1:42 pm | #
How about "asshole."
fifteen minutes ago a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door ...
I admit, I'm a softie for the ones that come to the door. I hustle 'em off pretty quick, but I try to be nice about it. The Jehovah's Witnesses seem used to it...
Yes, Henry you agree with me!
The only thing this argument is missing is NTodd.
Maybe if I take off my pants???
I don't think that. Certainly never said it.
I wasn't directing that at you, sorry for the confusion.
You will never be able to see the car accident I saw. I can only describe it to you. Then you apply your experience to my description.
Snow (D-SC)
Well, how do you know that you saw the car accident that you saw? (heh)
religion kills.
Life kills.
How about "asshole."
rorschach, me
Need something more specific. Applies to to many non-atheists.
The retention of AAA credit ratings for the insurance units of MBIA Inc. and Ambac Financial Group Inc. earlier this week brought the global banking system and capital markets back from the brink.
woohoo, a depression is that close, fine job repugnicants!
hey W, how much is gas a gallon? what's that? I can eat cake, fuck off!
For any computable enumeration operator Φ there is a recursively enumerable set A such that Φ(A) = A and A is the smallest set with this property.
Godfrey Harold Hardy | 03.01.08 - 1:40 pm | #
Brauwer cannot make us leave the paradise that Cantor has given us
- Hilbert.
What do you propose to call the kind of atheist who makes a constant asshole of themself over it?
I call him Uncle Frank
Applies to to many non-atheists.
Anthony McCarthy
If the shoe fits...
C'mon, folks...sing along to "Do Right Woman" with me!
Zap Rowsdower
not totally right, but okay
P.S. What'd'ya buy on amazon, Zap?
Wow, fifteen minutes ago a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door -- and when I check back in at Eschaton, it's a religion thread. It must be a sign from God.
Toonscribe | 03.01.08 - 1:42 pm | #
M sent off her revised dissertation to her committee yesterday, and the radio in the post office was playing ABBA's "Fernando."
Not quite sure what sort of sign that is...
I admit, I'm a softie for the ones that come to the door. I hustle 'em off pretty quick, but I try to be nice about it. The Jehovah's Witnesses seem used to it...
These guys left pretty quickly of their account. They dropped off a tract and said it was about something that was happening soon and then left. I didn't bother to check to see if it was a Jehovah's Witness event or the Second Coming before I threw it in the recycling.
How about "asshole."
rorschach, me
Need something more specific. Applies to to many non-atheists.
Anthony McCarthy | 03.01.08 - 1:44 pm | #
"Asshole what don't believe in God."
If the shoe fits...
JR, kerosene and a match
It seems to have pinched you, JR.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
Reason and religion cannot co-exist, IMO. It's been an embarrassing dance for those who have espoused that they can.
whiskey,
Nice song; I took the liberty of posting it at my blog!
Did I mention it has a verse about sex in a car??
I admit, I'm a softie for the ones that come to the door. I hustle 'em off pretty quick, but I try to be nice about it. The Jehovah's Witnesses seem used to it...
These guys left pretty quickly of their account. They dropped off a tract and said it was about something that was happening soon and then left. I didn't bother to check to see if it was a Jehovah's Witness event or the Second Coming before I threw it in the recycling.
Toonscribe | 03.01.08 - 1:46 pm | #
I used to keep a bunch of used copies of Nietzsche's "The Anti-Christ" by the door and insist they read it, since I'd already read their book.
The Jehovah's Witnesses seem used to it...
I haven't had Jehovah's Witness since the door was answered by two Rottweilers.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
Well, that's what you say ...
Geo bush is the leader of your country. Why can't you just accept that?
Whiskey,
It's Zapette's birthday on the 10th, so I bought her this book.
Amongst the other gifts that I'll lavish upon her...
Pakistani Winning Party Meets with Islamists to Build Anti-Musharraf Coalition
By VOA News
29 February 2008
USA! USA! USA!
a nukular power is very close to chaos...fine job W (yeah it's W's fault for ignoring his foreign policy obligations)
"Asshole what don't believe in God."
rorschach, meh
Nah, people might think I meant them when I really meant JR. Think I'll stick with neo-atheist. I'll check on the etymology and get back to you on it. I mean the real etymology, not the neo-atheist etymology which is what you'll probably find if you google it online.
whiskey,
Nice song; I took the liberty of posting it at my blog!
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
No way! Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. My first official link!
I used to keep a bunch of used copies of Nietzsche's "The Anti-Christ" by the door and insist they read it, since I'd already read their book.
That only seems fair.
Same goes for all other the deistic faiths. Every single one of them.
My personal view is that if a loving god who wants a personal relationship with us actually did exist, he wouldn't have to rely on a 2000 year old book of doubtful authorship and ambiguous interpretation to convey his message.
His existence would be self-evident, as obvious as the sun.
Well, how do you know that you saw the car accident that you saw?
I saw it. With mine own two eyes. And if my memory is the only evidence, then it happened the way I said it did. But that doesn't make it true or false. Additional evidence would tend to support or disprove my memory.
I didn't bother to check to see if it was a Jehovah's Witness event or the Second Coming before I threw it in the recycling.
I at least give those things a passing glance... I get a kick out of those "old time religion" graphics.
Who knows - you might get a Jack Chick tract!
M sent off her revised dissertation to her committee yesterday, and the radio in the post office was playing ABBA's "Fernando."
The Greeks had a word for this serrendipitous conjunction of signs and events. It was called a kleidon (not sure about the spelling). They weren't as rational as people like to believe.
Elias, that's why I wasn't the one to religion into the discussion. I've yet to meet a neo-atheist who will discuss things on a strictly rational basis without bringing all kinds of irrelevant religious snark into it.
I think it's just a case of what I mentioned earlier. It's hard for Christians and Jews and Muslins for that matter, to remember that theism is the dominant ideology in the US, especially when these religions are pitted against each other, which is a whole nother Oprah...
Atheism is a minority opinion. And I think what you might read as "snarky" is just defensiveness - the natural reaction of the outnumbered, if you will.
Plus, this term "neo-Atheist" is sort of suspicious. Like an earlier poster stated, it's enough to fight the perception that, by defintion, atheists are automatically wrong because it presumes the default setting to be theism...
That only seems fair.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:48 pm | #
I thought so.
But none of them ever came back...
Reason and religion cannot co-exist, IMO. It's been an embarrassing dance for those who have espoused that they can.
MP | 03.01.08 - 1:47 pm | #
Reason and humanity have a very stressful relationship and they often have violent fights, and infect each other with veneral diseases acquired in the course of dangerous extra-marital relations, and reject counseling.
Amongst the other gifts that I'll lavish upon her...
Zap Rowsdower |
She is very lucky. May your garden grow all that you plant there 
I saw it. With mine own two eyes. And if my memory is the only evidence, then it happened the way I said it did. But that doesn't make it true or false. Additional evidence would tend to support or disprove my memory.
Snow
Ah, but there is no way to access objective reality, so there is no evidence. You just have faith in the car accident.
Or something like that.
none of them ever came back...
Maybe you should go to THEIR house.
"Did you have a chance to read the book I left with you?"
His existence would be self-evident, as obvious as the sun.
You've obviously never read any Vonnegut.
Brauwer cannot make us leave the paradise that Cantor has given us - Hilbert.
Wir müssen wissen.
Wir werden wissen.
The Greeks had a word for this serrendipitous conjunction of signs and events. It was called a kleidon (not sure about the spelling). They weren't as rational as people like to believe.
Toonscribe | 03.01.08 - 1:49 pm | #
And Carl Jung recycled it as "synchronicity." And then Sting recycled it as...
May your garden grow all that you plant there
/looks out the window at all of the ice and snow; sighs
This fucking winter's been too damn long. That's why we're trying to make babies...we're bored.
I warned everyone!
Now I'm outta here...
I'm not saying that you don't have the right to believe in a higher power. I'm just not giving you a "by" because it's all fluffy and shit.
JR, kerosene and a match
OK.
Time for everyone to get their rain gear on!!!
Elias, Pud pounder. | 03.01.08 - 12:37 pm |
Ah, but there is no way to access objective reality, so there is no evidence.
I saw it, that is my evidence.
Elias, I defined my use of the term early and it's what I'll contiue to use. I've found that it generally applies to people who think Carl Sagan was the last word on the application of logic.
That's why we're trying to make babies
Wow, soon there will be little liberals all over the place!!
Maybe you should go to THEIR house.
"Did you have a chance to read the book I left with you?"
dave™© | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:50 pm | #
Good idea, but us atheists, we all lazy and shit.
all religions should be illegal to anyone under 8 & a warning printed on all holy books - could cause death or insanity.
or kindling.
Wir müssen wissen.
Wir werden wissen.
Godfrey Harold Hardy | 03.01.08 - 1:50 pm | #
Faith unsupported by evidence.
"Neo" just means "new."
So "neo-atheist" is needless and meaningless.
bye for now
gonna go watch a coughilledgallydownloadedcough No Country For Old Men (on my Xbox 360)
And then Sting recycled it as...
... musical glop.
Plus, this term "neo-Atheist" is sort of suspicious.
Extremely.
Of course, I prefer the term "uppity atheist". You know, not rolling over and begging in the presence of "faith".
Ant the twit presenting us with this "delicacy" continues to assert that atheism is intellectually shallow and lacking in sufficient humility in the face of the awesomness of "faith".
This fucking winter's been too damn long. That's why we're trying to make babies...we're bored.
Zap Rowsdower
Well, that was the garden I was referring to!
It's now officially March so this isn't totally apropos, but a friend once jumped into the Atkins diet with both feet, making charts and graphs and stuff. He wasn't particularly overweight, so I asked him why he was doing it. He said it was February! So he needed something to do...
Why are we discussing religion when the most important thing that happens on Sunday is NFL football?
Wow, soon there will be little liberals all over the place!!
The only reason we're doing it is to stop people complaining about independents crossing over to vote Dem.
I saw it, that is my evidence.
Snow
Now it's just hearsay, and not admissable
Why are we discussing religion when the most important thing that happens on Sunday is NFL football?
Gomez | 03.01.08 - 1:55 pm | #
Have you noticed what time of year it is?
I iz probably breaking half a dozen laws
me naughty!
Why are we discussing religion when the most important thing that happens on Sunday is NFL football?
Gomez
Same thing.
So "neo-atheist" is needless and meaningless.
rorschach, meh
It could be people that don't believe in the character Neo from The Matrix.
Why are we discussing religion when the most important thing that happens on Sunday is NFL football?
Gomez
Same thing.
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:56 pm | #
Axiomatically, Brett Favre is God.
Or so I'm told around here.
So "neo-atheist" is needless and meaningless.
I view it as a term invented for the express purpose of jerking someone's chain on a comment thread.
Why are we discussing religion when the most important thing that happens on Sunday is NFL football?
Free Agency is teh hawt right now.
Why are we discussing religion when the most important thing that happens on Sunday is NFL football?
There is a baseball game on my television, heretic.
Elias, I defined my use of the term early and it's what I'll contiue to use. I've found that it generally applies to people who think Carl Sagan was the last word on the application of logic.
Anthony McCarthy
Alright, how bout "New Age Atheist" then?
This fucking winter's been too damn long. That's why we're trying to make babies...we're bored.
Zap Rowsdower
lousey Smarch weather ... and Congrats to the Nim & Jen family!!!!!
it's pronounced "nuke you ler". Damn make a note of it
found that it generally applies to people who think Carl Sagan was the last word on the application of logic.
Anthony McCarthy
Except for the fact tht the only Sagan book I ever read was "The Dragons of Eden".
Try again.
I view it as a term invented for the express purpose of jerking someone's chain on a comment thread.
heh.
This one should go in the Funk and Wagnalls
Ah, but there is no way to access objective reality, so there is no evidence.
I saw it, that is my evidence.
Snow (D-SC)
Since you're the empiricist now,
Show us God.
And then Sting recycled it as...
Sorry, I can't hear you over the din of my Rice Krispies.
I've found that it generally applies to people who think Carl Sagan was the last word on the application of logic.
Anthony McCarthy
Never read anything he wrote. I just always thought he was cute.
Now it's just hearsay, and not admissable
Hah! But it is not hearsay and some hearsay is admissible.
My only point being that a person's experience is evidence and every bit as credible as math.
had my niece visiting this weekend
she really enjoyed her first day at Kindergarten on Monday
she's such a clever, well behaved (yet cheeky) girl, always makes me smile (but one has to be mentally and physically alert, because she will insist on striking up a conversation with you)
Choo-choo
Coleman
it's pronounced "nuke you ler". Damn make a note of it
Victory For Bush
Actually Bush is threatening the country of Ler, which obviously is resisting our democracy.
"This fucking winter's been too damn long. "
fucking groundhog.
Why are we discussing religion when the most important thing that happens on Sunday is NFL football?
Gomez
Same thing.
JR, kerosene and a match | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:56 pm | #
Axiomatically, Brett Favre is God.
Or so I'm told around here.
rorschach, meh | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:56 pm | #
That'll come as a surprise to your cats.
ALRIGHT! ENOUGH!
Can we please end this now?
Please?
My only point being that a person's experience is evidence and every bit as credible as math.
Snow
Well, some people's math....
That'll come as a surprise to your cats.
Buckeye, Dealer of Rare Coins | 03.01.08 - 2:00 pm | #
Oh, they're happy polytheists, so I reckon it'll be okay.
ALRIGHT! ENOUGH!
Can we please end this now?
Please?
That's not the way things are done here.
George is finally sleeping (less shivering)
he even purred
so i hope he is on the mend.
Never read anything he wrote. I just always thought he was cute.
whiskey-whatever!
He was a real bastard to his first two wives, or so I've read.
JR, only Dragons of Eden? Yet you speak Saganese like a native. You mean there's another strain of logical pseudo-erudition in neo-atheism?
Elias the insulter says so...so it must be done.
Show us God.
Look around you. Nope, see, I can only use words. Those words can't make you see what I describe. You can accept my description as true, you can reject it as false, or you can test it against other evidence. But I can't make you do any one of the three.
Can we please end this now?
"If one person can see it as a paradise of mathematicians, why should not another see it as a joke?" - Ludwig Wittgenstein
That's not the way things are done here.
billy b
OK. Pretty Please?
Heidi of course cannot understand why George doesn't want to play
s h e e t s
ALRIGHT! ENOUGH!
Can we please end this now?
Please?
Please note the red box with the "X" at the upper right hand corner of the window.
Elias the insulter says so...so it must be done.
Zap Rowsdower
I've turned over a new leaf, punk.
Well, some people's math....
Right. Some people's math is wrong. Some people's memories are wrong.
"If one person can see it as a paradise of mathematicians, why should not another see it as a joke?" - Ludwig Wittgenstein
Godfrey Harold Hardy | 03.01.08 - 2:03 pm | #
Someone, perhaps some french snot, said something like
The compelling power and appeal of Hilbert's program is shown by the fact that it remains a goal, 70 years after it was shown to be impossible.
My only point being that a person's experience is evidence and every bit as credible as math.
A colleague of mine suffered from psychotic delusions brought on by bipolar disorder. While in that state, that person made a number of false accusations against coworkers, many of them close friends. Fortunately, that person's "experience" wasn't taken as credible evidence of wrongdoing.
Can you imagine if these knuckleheads had been in charge during WWII?
Richard, you make the common mistake of not admitting that knowledge of math is entirely based in experience. It is impossible for a person to know something of which they have no experience. Explain how it is possible for someone to know a part of math of which they have no experience.
The typical neo-atheist response is to call this solopsism, which is a method of trying to avoid that it is simply inescapible that it is true.
This is great news. Now we know for sure that SEPTA trains are bulletproof!
A month ago, a poster at Raw Story stated that a person they knew who worked for Gunderson, a large railway car manufacturer based in Oregon (with offices also in Canada and Mexico), had told them that BushCo had ordered thousands of railway cars, "special" ones with shackles welded to the inside walls.
I don't know. Maybe true. Maybe false. But I figured that non-descript railway cars would be one way BushCo could move people around, like illegal immigrants arrested, without drawing much attention to what they were doing.
And when combined with the following "emergency" measures, weelllll:
1) Two weeks ago, Bush and the Canadian prime minister signed an "agreement" whereby in case of an "emergency" in the U.S. or Canada, U.S. troops or Canadian troops can enter the other country to "help."
2) BushCo got Republicans in Congress several years ago, over the objections of all of our nation's state governors, the authority in case of an "emergency" to seize control over all of our state's national guard units.
3) BushCo got Republicans in Congress several years ago to provide funds for $385 million in new "detention" centers to be built around the United States "for immigration and other purposes," like in case of an "emergency."
Therefore, this Raw Story comment caught my attention, because I wouldn't discount anything where BushCo is concerned. Rail cars secretively being built to transport people secretly around on our nation's railway lines. Not that farfetched, really. Especially for BushCo, the most vile and corrupt administration in American history.
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