HULK SMASH
aha
aha2
hmmm , let me guess? 8.3?
spinoza got me.
so, that why so many californicators are all over austin! trailer for sale or rent...
Sinfonian loves these kind of posts.
I thought a foreclosure required a mohel.
This is making me dizzy.
That's a lot.
Fred Thompson better hire the makeup artist from Law and Order.
FDR 1932: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
GOP 2007: "The only thing we have to offer is fear itself."
.
ohh fuck socal...i saw a show where they went into Watts (that watts) and bought a home for 500k! that was beat up in a tough neighborhood, fixed it and listed it for like 750k....Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
i could easily move into silicon valley and find work, but i am not a fucking retard
TX has you all beat for repos. We've got our Raptured mortgages, too.
Atrios, I know the espresso is good over here, but slow down!
We've got our Raptured mortgages, too.
where's everybody? they just risened.
"ohh fuck socal...i saw a show where they went into Watts (that watts) and bought a home for 500k! that was beat up in a tough neighborhood, fixed it and listed it for like 750k"
freaking insane.
According to George Will, this whole problem was caused by Hillary Clinton and stupid poor people.
repost:
I'd like the moderator of a Republican candidates' debate to ask:
"In 2000 and 2004, you told us that if we put "conservatives" like George Bush into office, everything would be way better in every way. We did what you suggested, and nothing's worked out like you said it would. Why on Earth should we listen to any of you now?"
oopsie! that aint good
mestiz0, the mortgages raptured! went straight up.
When my parents were in their 20's they bought a starter house in LA in 1974 for $23,500. It lists at $571,000 now. Two bedroom tiny 850 square foot house.
$571,000.
"According to George Will, this whole problem was caused by Hillary Clinton and stupid poor people.
steve simels"
psssst. it's saturday. yer suppossed to bash hillary.
The wages of sin is Debt! (new GoPerv view)
i wish republicans would rapture.
I have this theory: most people with fair skin look dreadful in red. Are you listening, women of the GOP?
Wife was reading something this morning my time that said 1 in 27 homes in Stockton had gone to foreclosure.
http://www.kcra.com/news/1389465...?
subid=10100243
:::Stockton now has the highest foreclosure rate in the nation, more than 8,000 foreclosures for the first part of this year, which is one foreclosure for every 27 households. This is a 256 percent increase compared to the same time period last year.:::
Wife was reading something this morning my time that said 1 in 27 homes in Stockton had gone to foreclosure.
Ever been to Stockton?
Stockton is a bleak place to live, too. Armpit of The Central Valley, it is.
Stockton now has the highest foreclosure rate in the nation,
I've spent a lot of time in the Central Valley, and I'm not surprised at all.
Stockton is a bleak place to live, too. Armpit of The Central Valley, it is.
Worse than Fresno? {{{{{{{{{{shudder}}}}}}}}}
well GONZO and CHIMPY have a few laughs with BABs before the barbecue
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/
0707...qAUwXWc2hPq188F
If Stockton is an armpit, Madera is the other armpit.
:::Stockton isn't alone with this dubious distinction. Sacramento is No. 5 nationwide, fresno checks in at No. 14. Oakland is No. 19 and San Francisco came in at No. 78.:::
Stockton: Zero-visibility Valley Fog in the Winter, Hotter than Hell in The Summer.
Oh, but beautiful Ceres!
spinoza, when we stayed in Madera, going to Fresno was a big treat. That's how bad it is.
And, then there's Modesto: "Water, Wealth, Contentment, Health"....and Lacey Peterson.
I have this theory: most people with fair skin look dreadful in red. Are you listening, women of the GOP?
plantsman, areligious | 08.18.07 - 8:43 am | #
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thats not true ..it depends on the shade of red...dayglow not so much...Chinese Laquer red is very attractive on blondes...redheads should NEVER wear red
Redheads look good in green.
Republican women seem to go for that deep, congealing-blood red look.
I have fair skin and dark brown hair, and many people have told me I look great in red, plantsman.
I have this theory: most people with fair skin look dreadful in red. Are you listening, women of the GOP?
plantsman, areligious | 08.18.07 - 8:43 am | #
Julianne Moore may disprove that theory.
Although she may be the exception, etc....
(Well, this kilt the other thread - let's try this one)
I'm sorry, but the Democrats are hopeless and I see no sign that even if they win big in 08 they will ever do the right thing.
steve simels
Agreed. That is my position as well, I am very sorry to say. I have come to this after much thought and observation. These last few months since the installation of the new congress have absolutely convinced me of this. They will provide peanuts for the crowd and steal the gate for themselves.
People: we are in deep shit here and no one seems to realize it. On any issue the fact is that the majority of Americans are at cross-purposes with the stated positions of our government: not the Republican or Democratic positions; the GOVERNMENT'S position.
Think of the issues: Immigration, trade, the war, health care, gun control, equal opportunity, offshore tax shelters, infrastructure investment, investment education and on and on.
Our government does not believe that people in this country should have
a voice in these decisions. They have abdicated their representation of the people in favor of the special interests who are paying their way.
On any of those issues listed above the stated positions of the MAJORITY of Americans is clearly a position that is unacceptable to the unholy trinity of mega corporations/ government/super wealthy in our society.
I am not sure what to do with it but I do know that electing a few more Dems will not do it. . . .
I have this theory: most people with fair skin look dreadful in red. Are you listening, women of the GOP?
I think republicans look terrific in orange.
Ala Katherine Harris' "Interview With The Vampire" lip-color.
Redheads look good in green.
Ralphie-Myrmidon | 08.18.07 - 8:49 am | #
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NAVY BLUE, and royal blue ....most any shade of blue...
"Redheads look good in green."
and black.
I do not doubt it, Marcellina. All I can sense from here is your personality, and it's lovely!
According to George Will, this whole problem was caused by Hillary Clinton and stupid poor people.
steve simels
*Throws Will's clothing out the window*
PR News Release on the report with Stockton tops
Detroit documented the second highest foreclosure rate among the nation's 100 largest metropolitan areas -- one foreclosure filing for every 29 households.
Las Vegas documented the third highest foreclosure rate among the nation's 100 largest metropolitan areas, with one foreclosure filing for every 31 households during the first half of 2007.
Other cities in the top 10 were Riverside-San Bernardino, Calif., Sacramento, Calif., Denver, Miami, Bakersfield, Calif., Memphis and Cleveland.
Riverside-San Bernardino, Los Angeles, Atlanta report most foreclosure filings
Other cities with foreclosure filing totals among the 10 highest included Chicago, Detroit, Denver, Dallas, Las Vegas, Phoenix and Sacramento.
Republicans also look fetching in black and white horizontal stripes, with manacle accessories.
I would say Modesto is a bit nicer looking than some of the other cities in that area. Visalia, Porterville, Merced, I know the whole valley like the back of my hand, unfortunately.
I've dated one redhead in my life. She looked great in green or any dark color. Unfortunately, she used her personality as a form of birth control.
Unfortunately, she used her personality as a form of birth control.
This must be why the fundies are so gung ho with abstinence-only programs -- it's all so easy for them!
Once, in San Francisco, while walking the dog on a weekend morning, I came upon a newish Mustang
someone had smashed up in anger. Daubed on what was left of the windshield were the words, "...And I burned the Mink, Motherfucker!"
i cant find the Yahoo article from yesterday ,but here is another on foreclosures
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/14/
...on=money_latest
Republicans also look fetching in black and white horizontal stripes, with manacle accessories.
Marcellina | 08.18.07 - 8:53 am | #
Think Elvis Presley in the great "Jailhouse Rock" scene.
Only without the music and with more rape.
"Elvis in Oz!"
what a freakin' lightning storm.
oh my. Looking at the satellite, looks like a feeder band for Typhoon Sepat just moved through.
I'm glad this typhoon missed us.
Think Elvis Presley in the great "Jailhouse Rock" scene.
If Barry Manilow made a prison movie, it would be called "Jailhouse Loogie".
"New England Big House."
I'm glad the typhoon missed you, too; Tom!
wow Miami and Ft lauderdale have 35 ,000 FORECLOSURES!!! that is a radius of 25 miles
SHIITE HITTING FAN!
I am not sure what to do with it but I do know that electing a few more Dems will not do it. . . .
DWD - Ready to Revolt
Well it won't do it but it's a start.
By rejecting the Gooper Party en masse, it will send a signal that Corporate Predation as Political Ideology is unacceptable.
And the Dems should have their feet held to the fire and if they can't come up with a new New Deal, then they too should be jettisoned. But it will take a lot more organizing and grass roots developement than has ever occurred in America before.
wow Miami and Ft lauderdale have 35 ,000 FORECLOSURES!!! that is a radius of 25 miles
SHIITE HITTING FAN!
(Expect the GOP to propose legislation prohibiting the homeless and foreclosed-upon from voting.)
Why do the WaPo's emailed "Headlines" always seem a day or two late?
Morning, rational people.
Morning, Diane.
mornin', malcontents.
i discovered last night that there isn't enough tequila in the world to make the pain of groundhog day # 1570 go away.
my mouth tastes like the bottom of a birdcage...
(Expect the GOP to propose legislation prohibiting the homeless and foreclosed-upon from voting.)
plantsman, areligious | 08.18.07 - 9:03 am | #
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i knew it was bad ,but just wow..my friend there was telling me how theHaitians and Cubavs love the gooperzzzzzzz ,cant figure it out...just tells me DEMS aint gettin the message out ,or the rubes watch FOX 24/7...prolly the latter
off topic but kind of neat image
radar image with overlay of 5 minute lightning detection
boom boom boom...
"greatest story never told!"-Larry Kudlow pretending the economy's great
Tequila Hangovers can be brutal!
For democracy to work it requires at least three things: Honest elections, an informed citizenry and realistic alternative political parties.
It is sad to say but at the current time, America lacks all three.
Red looks great on me. Everything does. (snort.)
Diane found honest Co. officials in Alaska! Diogenes is pleased.
at http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com/
Morning, rational people.
Diane C. Barking-Mad | Homepage | 08.18.07 - 9:07 am | #
Not feeling particularly rational, actually, but morning right back at ya.
And the Dems should have their feet held to the fire and if they can't come up with a new New Deal, then they too should be jettisoned. But it will take a lot more organizing and grass roots developement than has ever occurred in America before.
Rudy
I gather that, in general, you are perceiving what I am then? Maybe it is the fact that here in Western Michigan the effects of sending manufacturing jobs away has been felt so terribly but it has put me into a foul mood. Driving through the city and seeing the boarded up factories, the abandoned businesses, and the struggling businesses remaining is just disheartening.
I read of the problems with products from China and I keep wondering, WTF are we doing this? I can see no good reason other than corporate greed and that don't mean shit to me. If they can make their Barbie Dolls for fifty cents in China and sell them for thirty bucks here or make them here for two dollars and sell them here for thirty dollars . . .
And the problem is this: If you think it is the Republicans alone doing this you are extremely naive for the Democrats have sold out the American people just as much or more than the Republicans.
Tequila Hangovers can be brutal!
plantsman, areligious | 08.18.07 - 9:09 am | #
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4 dayzzzzzzzzzzzz once
N E V E R ..A G A I N !!!!!!!!!!!
For democracy to work it requires at least three things: Honest elections, an informed citizenry and realistic alternative political parties.
Sadder still, the American public chooses to keep itself uninformed. Because to be politically informed is, so like, boring.
The days are noticeably shorter now. (sigh)
OT, maybe I imagined it but I thought CNN told me earlier this week there was a joint US/Afghan operation against Tora Bora. They said they would get back to me with details. Am I going crazy? Because I haven't heard a thing about it since.
He's the king of hip-hopcrisy!
Ok, Steve, what movies do you recommend this weekend?
"greatest story never told!"-Larry Kudlow pretending the economy's great
jr | 08.18.07 - 9:09 am | #
Further proof, as if it were needed, that Kudlow has always been lying about being on the wagon.
He's so fucking stoned its not even funny....
Talk about hangovers. Has anyone ever tried the Scandinavian drink called "Glug?"
Man, some Norwegian stewardess I knew at Pan Am once (many years ago) fed me those and it was lights out!
China is developing economically whether we like it or not -- better to work with them and try to have some influence as to "standards and practices" -- than to try to impede or prevent it. Lying on the tracks in front of an on-rushing train rarely damages the train, or stops it.
He's the king of hip-hopcrisy!
watertiger | Homepage | 08.18.07 - 9:12 am | #
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he reallly CANT talk about the chillins
however he can LISP a lttle info
wt, it's a good think Rudy! has 'decent people' to talk for him, then? Oh, right.
watertiger:
How's the sinus headache?
I had to stop using Sudafed many years ago because it had an uncomfortable interaction with my blood-pressure meds. Anybody tried Sudafed PE ?
Further proof, as if it were needed, that Kudlow has always been lying about being on the wagon.
He's so fucking stoned its not even funny....
steve simels | Homepage | 08.18.07 - 9:12 am | #
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hey steve....worked for Goebels
when your drugged like him and rushbo...it is TEH easy to talk out your ass
China is developing economically whether we like it or not -- better to work with them and try to have some influence as to "standards and practices" -- than to try to impede or prevent it. Lying on the tracks in front of an on-rushing train rarely damages the train, or stops it.
plantsman, areligious
Ah, conventional wisdom. Such a lovely thing. You are right. We should just fuck our own people and damn ourselves to being second rate citizens in our country and become the vassals we were born to be.
NO. THAT IS BULLSHIT.
Posted this earlier, but:
Saw an amazing movie yesterday -- "The Last Legion."
Essentially, it's the greatest episode never filmed of "Xena, Warrior Princess," except with terrific acting -- who knew Colin Firth was a credible action hero, ditto Ben Kingsely -- cool FX, and a terrific sort of surprise ending. What an unexpected pleasure.
Also saw "Superbad," which is actually quite funny and touching, even if you're like me and have a rather low tolerance for dick jokes.
Rudy is the new Don....great opera
DON JULLLIANNNNNNNNNNNNI
Kudlow's CNBC show has the tagline "Right, On The Money." Heh-heh.
DWD,
It's not possible to absolve the Dems what with their embrace of NAFTA, CAFTA, and other anti-US labor acronymic obscenities.
What the American people have lost is the sense that the US government is on their side, which was so prevalent in the Forties, Fifties and Sixties.
The US government should be the champion of the people, defending them from enemies foreign and domestic. And yet we have al Qaeda running amok, American jobs being stripped away, Enron/Worldcom and all sorts of other corporate raids on American pensions and other assets, while our so called "representatives" take bribes from corporate lobbyists.
The system sucks. The MSM is a lying disgrace and the American people are like sheep being herded to the slaughter.
Sittenpretty, that opera will be written, I am sure of it.
We should just fuck our own people and damn ourselves to being second rate citizens in our country and become the vassals we were born to be.
Hoffman: Do not translate my words into yours and accuse me of saying them, bastard!
when responding to any of my stupid posts this morning, please maintain low tones.
so, is the real world still operating under bizarro mode, or is there hope for our fucking democracy yet?
(to be sung to the tune of the Col Bogey March)
Hitler
Had only one big ball
Goebbels
Had two but they were small
Himmler
Had something similar
And Mussolini
Had no balls
At all!!!
who knew Colin Firth was a credible action hero,
-----------------
me likey Mr. Darcy
bizarro mode operative.
All right, the laptop is getting ornery and my eyes need a rest. Good morning to allaya.
Diane, there's a draft I put in 'cause you were late and I feared another power outage, and I already knew what I was gonna post on. Run it whenever.
We should just fuck our own people and damn ourselves to being second rate citizens in our country and become the vassals we were born to be.
Hoffman: Do not translate my words into yours and accuse me of saying them, bastard!
plantsman, areligious | 08.18.07 - 9:21 am | #
Actually, that's kind of how I interpreted them as well.
Just saying....
There may be as much hope for a functioning democracy in America as there is a for a "7" or "ll" in craps.
About even money.
There is a very large area between World Power Numero Uno, and "damning ourselves to be second rate citizens in our own country." Many highly developed countries manage this, so why can't America?
Sittenpretty, that opera will be written, I am sure of it.
Marcellina | 08.18.07 - 9:21 am | #
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I HOPE IT IS SHAKESPEAREAN IN ITS TRADGEDY...you know how the protaganists fare 
A pity both of you must twist them so.
I'm headed up to the country for the weekend. See you rational people later.
me likey Mr. Darcy
sittenpretty,VONAGE the Worst | 08.18.07 - 9:23 am | #
Really, he's great in the flick.
Made me want to see him do Shakespeare....he has a fake Henry V pre-battle speech that's just terrific. Now I want the real thing....
Oh, Colin Firth is grand. He was the highlight of the "Bridget Jones' Diary" for me.
Facebook.
No, I really don't understand.
.
who knew Colin Firth was a credible action hero,
-----------------
me likey Mr. Darcy
sittenpretty,VONAGE the Worst | 08.18.07 - 9:23 am
Was actually watching that on TV as Simels was raving about Firth in this new movie.
good news and bad news.
the bad news is that i drank all of my tequila last nite. the good news is that i drank all of my tequila last nite.
hopefully a couple of special bloody mary's this AM should block some of the discomfort my brain is having.
it's worth a shot, anyway... right?
a shot. now there's an idea.
When you're going for the funny nothing beats Hitler. Or kos.
.
Rudy and Steve,
But a voice in the wilderness is still a voice in the wilderness. It won't make a bit of difference.
But I just don't get it.
Plantsman,
Please don't take offense. Your position is the traditional one that I was citing. It is not personal. You are a great guy and I would never criticize YOU. You know that.
But if I can jar you out of complacency, I will.
it's worth a shot, anyway... right?
"The hair of the dog that bit you."
McClatchy is throwing around the "R word" (recession) this morning. It occurs to me that I actually haven't heard that word mentioned on the tayvay in connection with the economy and its problems.
Oh, Colin Firth is grand. He was the highlight of the "Bridget Jones' Diary" for me.
Marcellina | 08.18.07 - 9:28 am | #
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awwwwwwwwww he adorable
fokowi, aren't those tequila worms now an endangered species or something?
Okay, gotta run -- off to Gomorrah on the Hudson.
Talk to you all much later ce soir...
a shot. now there's an idea.
fokowi at lake cabin | Homepage | 08.18.07 - 9:28 am | #
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i can not even smell the stuff anymore,just the thought of it....
ohhhhhhhhhh no can do
McClatchy is throwing around the "R word" (recession) this morning. It occurs to me that I actually haven't heard that word mentioned on the tayvay in connection with the economy and its problems.
neponset | 08.18.07 - 9:29 am
Has anyone mentioned increased inflation due to the Fed starting to throw dollar bills at hedge funds and investors like they were las vegas showgirls.
hahahaha -- discussion of study on msnbc with dr ruth that because of the religious sexual repression of the south, and the resistance to informed sexual education, southern teenagers have sex at a younger age than their northern counterparts.
McClatchy is throwing around the "R word" (recession) this morning. It occurs to me that I actually haven't heard that word mentioned on the tayvay in connection with the economy and its problems.
neponset | 08.18.07 - 9:29 am
Has anyone mentioned increased inflation due to the Fed starting to throw dollar bills at hedge funds and investors like they were las vegas showgirls.
Tom - 大肚腩 | Homepage | 08.18.07 - 9:32 am | #
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stagflation
i got so drunk last night that i blew chunks...
chunks is the name of my dog.
feeble attempt at humor, i know. but, at least i'm trying.
ouch. ouch ouch.
afternoon moonbats
no money around ,but whats around is worthless
And DWD, I've complimented you and your work, here and other places. From my perspective, you greatly filtered what I said and made it mean something I did not - and that pissed me off.
I know the despair economic decay can bring to an area and its people, but what I was saying was more along the lines of an old Chinese proverb,
"It is better to ride the horse in the direction it is going."
There is hope for renewing America, a great deal of work needs to be done -- but the old days are gone.
fokowi, aren't those tequila worms now an endangered species or something?
Marcellina | 08.18.07 - 9:31 am | #
marcellina.
they're for sure now extinct at the lake here. thank the god/dess of your choice.
McClatchy is throwing around the "R word" (recession) this morning. It occurs to me that I actually haven't heard that word mentioned on the tayvay in connection with the economy and its problems.
neponset
Funny, that.
The Fed has been keeping interest rates high to avoid that eventuality, but dropped them because Wall Street Billionaires were getting panicked.
Maybe the Fed ought to reconsider its policies, eh?
But if I can jar you out of complacency, I will.
DWD - Ready to Revolt | Homepage | 08.18.07 - 9:29 am | #
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i hate conventional wisdom...it is lazy and self fullfilling
i got so drunk last night that i blew chunks...
chunks is the name of my dog.
Put the thread down and back away from the blog with your hands where I can see them...
Driving through the city and seeing the boarded up factories, the abandoned businesses, and the struggling businesses remaining is just disheartening.
Driving through a blue-collar suburb of Philly can trigger a serious case of the blues, too.
Now that the industries have shut down or moved away, what are all these people actually doing?
Selling each other pizza or doing each other's nails, it seems.
Another feature: hand-lettered signs for sure-fire health insurance plans...
A bad argument for scrapping IHT
Maybe the Fed ought to reconsider its policies, eh?
Diane C.
*
the R word was all over the press yesterday relating to the outcome of world markets' failing
Heh. [Kathryn Jean Lopez]
The rap is Fred Thompson is lazy. So what did he do today? Went around the Iowa fair in a golf cart
Did he have his bag and balls with him?
It's no one else's job to "jar you out of your (my supposed) complacency". My experience of life
has been different but is as valid as any of yours.
It's my job to find my way.
I remember eight years ago I was working for a bank that was being gobbled up by another bank. I was offered a not-so-well paying job in NoCal...or I could take my chances and wait six months and hope that something better opened up in Arizona. My mother, a NoCal native living in AZ, was unhappy that I'd decided to see if something would open up down there. (Weird, huh? I would have thought she would have wanted me closer, but she really misses NoCal.)
As I said to her at the time, "If I moved out there, I'd be living in a shack under the I-680." I think she understood that. And, as it turned out, I stuck it out and moved to AZ. My employment life has improved immeasurably, and life in general (with the exception of the recently-discovered diabetes) is pretty good.
Did he have his bag and balls with him?
Zing!
.
How's the sinus headache?
gone.
sorry, was helping mia madre clean our her email address book.
It's no one else's job to "jar you out of your (my supposed) complacency".
Well, yes and no. What do you think activism is?
thanks Moon
these are creeps fanning this roller coastr
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Much of it was concerned with interviewing some particularly privileged employees of investment banks and fund managers and so on. The details of their grotesque lives are both celebrated and mocked. They revel in their preposterous sense of entitlement, their willingness to flaunt what they have procured for themselves, and most especially their narcissistic competition with other upper middle class creatures. One or two commentators are allowed to say some mean things about them. The viewer is invited to gasp when someone being offered a £100,000 bonus complains that it is like working for a charity, or when someone sues a bank because they only offered him one million when he thought his market value was seven million. Of course, I'm sure you are aware that there are legal firms in the city whose income is obtained by suing companies who have made bogus redundancies before bonus time - they take it very seriously, because a city bonus is not only a life's income for many people, but also on account of that a tremendous indicator of status. The creeps, of course, are permitted to defend themselves: "Oh yah, it takes a very particular kind of pahson to get to the top and stay there, y'know. It's a lot of hard wahk, but it's maistly abite the pahson.
i hate conventional wisdom...it is lazy and self fullfilling
sittenpretty,VONAGE the Worst | 08.18.07 - 9:35 am | #
i think i love sittenpretty.
conventional wisdom should be considered an oxymoron. hopefully, collective wisdom will become the new approach to problem solving and free thinking as we try to meander our way out of the fucking mess made by the fuckwads these past 6 years or so.
but, wtfdik? i'm still wasted.
sorry, was helping mia madre clean our her email address book.
Ooh, Mia Madre? I loved her in Pulp Fiction...
It's no one else's job to "jar you out of your (my supposed) complacency".
Oooh, spontaneous generation!
Has anyone mentioned increased inflation due to the Fed starting to throw dollar bills at hedge funds and investors like they were las vegas showgirls.
Tom -
*
fucking speculative, risky business practices that once were firmly curtailed by oversight are now back biting us in the ass.
we should not repeatedly bail out those who know their ships are likely to run aground.
As a diabetic diagnosed not yet a year ago, I can share that the first few months were arduous for me -- my memory and equilibrium were shot to hell, I could not manage my blood glucose well at first; but thankfully, I can relate that I seem to have a handle on that now, my memory has recovered a bit, and the equilibrium problems come-and-go.
The left and the crisis in the financial markets
"Has anyone mentioned increased inflation due to the Fed starting to throw dollar bills at hedge funds and investors like they were las vegas showgirls."
Tom, I am so going to steal this.