I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
naturally!
You're the boss, Duncan!
woo hoo!
aha!
We await your commands, oh dark lord.
Well, then, allow me.
Obama is a perfectly great second choice.
John Edwards, however, has the solid plans that fill in Obama's message of hope with real action.
(although I doubt that "not another word" part somehow...)
well, it's Caturday today. AND since Atrios ate his owns cats at xmas instead of a turkey, here's some kitteh:
http://www.dailykitten.com/
So... seen any good horse races lately?
Someone will do or say something mind-bendingly stupid, and you will break.
The cat is on the mat.
My heart's with Edwards, but I still think Hillary wins it. Maybe she should stop trying that Rahm Emanuel triangulatin' 'em to death thing and start talking like a, you know, Democrat.
That said, I think Huckabee comes in no worse than second in NH. The GOP has a Frankenstein's monster on their hands.
Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of folk. The Times says that the Evangelists are only 20% of the GOP vote in NH. We'll see.
Blogenfreude beats me to the punch. No WAY will Duncan be able to control those itchy bloggy fingers.
O.T. My website is all shiny and new this afternoon...
Just sayin'
No cats on it. (except the cat who plays guitar on the featured song)
Did we see any DBKitties yesterday? We did not. Was it not Friday? It was.
If Atrios wants to keep the FSM in good humor, he has to show us Gizmo at least...
the Vermont primary will decide it all!
I...WILL...OBEY...WORDS...WISDOM...DUNCAN...BLACK.
..
/girl from Small Wonder
who are you people?
Maverick is bravely bashing Time for not making Betrayus man of the year.
You know what would be nice? To see a few posts on what the next president can do, in concrete, detailed terms, to improve the economy and the country. Look at the emphasis of Bush policies and what that has done to the economy, then contrast that with ideas that can "right the ship," so to speak.
At this point, it's essentially "America's going to hell" and "Republicans will lose the White House." I think we get that.
Edwards will do what Bill Clinton did in '92. Just watch.
somedays, i wish i could vote and send money to Edwards...but that would mean i'm american. Sorry, but i'll stay in my country with a communist healthcare. Even if we had 5 snowstorms in the season so far, dammit!
Drapes of Wrath
And, no, I am not making the proverbial "biofuels" request.
chicago dyke! long time no see, darling 
*adding that commenting on stupid media coverage of the primary is still allowed.
C'mon!!
the Vermont primary will decide it all!
Iowa will be the most important event of the election cycle!
"
With JULIE LONDON!!!!!"
There is no one comparable in these future times.
Here's a question:
If the Republican Establishment, panicked by the Huckabee phenom, does finally get it together and propel whichever empty suit they really want to the nomination, will the Fundies finally realize how the Repugs have been using them and bolt the party?
Just wondering...
Plum - We get the five snowstorms, without the health care. It's a raw deal.
Edwards will do what Bill Clinton did in '92. Just watch.
Who'll play the role of Ross Perot. Without that, you got nothing.
In my hometown, no one is talking about Iowa. Huge silence on both sides...
the one which will decide the outcome, will be cast by me in the April 20 Pennsylvania primary.
-Atrios 12:21
we get the hint, but it won't make this sucky blog any less suckier...
yes, i've had more than 1 bloody 1.
watching Russert on MSNBC right now makes me suicidal. I'll switch to Bargain Hunt on the BBC instead...
Powerline's "Deacon" is gonna plotz (for soccer fans only)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/...cup/
7163963.stm
And, no, I am not making the proverbial "biofuels" request.
Econ 102 | 01.05.08 - 12:40 pm | #
Still not offing yourself, which is the only thing I'm interested in.
As goes Maine, so goes the nation (or Vermont).
Plum - We get the five snowstorms, without the health care. It's a raw deal.
sidhra
as Big Dog would say: I feel your pain!
Oh, right. Make us do all the work.
It's bad enough reading the comments about the reporting. I don't think I can stand to listen to the blathering on my teevee. They seem to have no connection with reality.
Soooo....WI's governor's endorsing Obama?
Discuss.
Or not.
Who am I kidding? I can't hijack a conversation like mimi...
Damn, we were going to attend a DK rally in Manchester tonight, but it's a couple hours away and I'm a bit fluish.
Who'll play the role of Ross Perot. Without that, you got nothing.
Bond
Fucklebeebee is doing a nice job
will the Fundies finally realize how the Repugs have been using them and bolt the party?
Just wondering...
steve simels |
Having Huckabee agree to take the VP slot for 2008 and bring his flock makes some hardline war-monger, Giuliani or McCain tough to beat.
You know what would be nice? To see a few posts on what the next president can do, in concrete, detailed terms, to improve the economy and the country. Look at the emphasis of Bush policies and what that has done to the economy, then contrast that with ideas that can "right the ship," so to speak.
Start your own fucking blog, then.
NTodd: how are the cats and big dog going along?
Arthur asks me to remind you that The Animal Channel is not dealing with primaries of any kind. Lots of interesting other stuff tho.
i'm waving at you plum, hello!
You know what would be nice? To see a few posts on what the next president can do, in concrete, detailed terms, to improve the economy and the country.
i apologize to chris tucker for breaking his rule, but i have to not quite agree with E, and say that people really don't like to chat up policy specifics very often. last post i put up asking readers to come up with ideas....sunk like a stone, comment free.
gossip, horserace talk, and flirting seem much more popular. not that there's anything wrong with that, only the wonkiest can truly claim to love thinking about policy specifics.
They seem to have no connection with reality.
I couldn't believe it Thursday night. I never watch, ordinarily. By god, the drama was thick! That Obama come from behind win!
Have a look at the superdelegates to the Democratic convention and the relative distribution of their allegiances.
If it goes down to the wire, Hillary's got a pretty good hole card (no tacky jokes, please).
I note with some disappointment that Edwards' very short list includes some very bad Democrats: Herseth, Shuler, and Al Wynn to name three.
Zap, I give lessons if you're interested 
Oh and,
UR NOT THE BOSS OF US.
'Enkew.
.
I don't think I can stand to listen to the blathering on my teevee.
Especially Tweety's man-crush du jour. You'd think he was reporting for Tiger Beat.
Ross Perot
Rudy plays the crazy guy.
To see a few posts on what the next president can do, in concrete, detailed terms, to improve the economy and the country.
Sign the laws passed by Congress and steer the agencies to efficiently carry out those laws.
"Though I will leave on prediction: the decisive vote, the one which will decide the outcome, will be cast by me in the April 20 Pennsylvania primary."
----------------
Noted.
We now know who to blame.
Who am I kidding? I can't hijack a conversation like mimi...
Zap Rowsdower
You have to do it like this:
"I was modeling some of the new pumps that will be shown in Milan this summer when a 98-year old footballer who had invested wisely in rent opportunities in the Lake Como area informed me that the Gov. of Wisconsin was endorsing Obama. After which we had an espresso and he voiced his desire to give me oral pleasures. It was a very cute afternoon."
Am I nuts in thinking that, fairly or not, that Obama beating Clinton in Iowa had more to do with the war than his dreaminess? I guess it doesn't matter, really, as we still have both the war and his dreaminess.
Who'll play the role of Ross Perot. Without that, you got nothing.
Bond, James Bond
Bloomberg. That's not hard.
Also, if McCain is the nominee, a fundie uprising is entirely possible.
NTodd, why don't you stay in and fill out that form for your membership to the Cherokee Tribe?
If the Republican Establishment, panicked by the Huckabee phenom, does finally get it together and propel whichever empty suit they really want to the nomination, will the Fundies finally realize how the Repugs have been using them and bolt the party?
Just wondering...
steve simels
I honestly think the fundie leadership, to the extent that it exists any more, has lost control of the grassroots. The fundie "leaders" wanted to get behind the establishment candidate, and you see how well that worked out.
Falwell is dead. Robertson is off the charts. No one appears to be paying attention to Dobson.
I think the parallel is 1992. GHW Bush won the nomination, and Paul Weyrich declared that Evangelicals would "sit out" the election.
True or not, Bush lost, and Evangelicals claimed some of the credit.
If Huckabee doesn't get the nod, expect a repeat. Far better to be able to say "you woulda won with us," than to have to say "you lost with us."
Harumph. I was deadthreaded while typing, so here it is again:
Your minestrone sounds wonderous.
Why, thank you. But I didn't really describe it. It has 3/4 lb. diced double-smoked bacon, a big ham hock, onions, garlic, a bunch of fresh sage, a bucjh of fresh marjoram, two quarts of chicken stock, two quarts of water, and a bottle of white wine for the broth. For beans, there's canneloni beans, black-eyed peas, chick peas, and pinto beans, but not too many beans overall. For veggies, I put carrots, celery, green beans, zucchini, cauliflower, golden beet, parsnip, celery root, cabbage, escarole, kale, and raddichio, all diced to like 1cm. On top of that, there was about 4 cups of Italian extra-big pearl barley.
The thing that really made it work well was cooking the beans and barley both separately and then rinsing them thoroughly before adding them to the main soup near the end. Often, I have had poblems with the broth tuning to library paste with all those starchy things simmering in it, but this way with some thorough skimming I was able to end up with a nearly clear, only slightly thickened broth. As I said, it was a continuous 4-hour project and thus a royal pain in the ass to make, but I think it is really the first time I have really gotten the result I desired making this type of soup.
NTodd: how are the cats and big dog going along?
Catz haven't seen the Dogz in a week, so there will be some readjustment Sunday night. But the Dogz are getting along just fine: Kayla's asserted her alpha role over the big guy, and they all hang out together, if not exactly cuddling.
fuck, the bitch is here.
Blacks account for 17.2% of the 1,848,339 non-postal jobs in the Executive branch of the federal government, though they are 12.4% of US population.
By contrast, they have only 11.4% of Grades 13 to 15 pay grade jobs and only 6.4% of executive/senior pay level jobs.
note with some disappointment that Edwards' very short list includes some very bad Democrats: Herseth, Shuler, and Al Wynn to name three.
SteveLG | 01.05.08 - 12:46 pm | #
Not to mention, bad Redskin.
P.S. go Skins!
After which we had an espresso and he voiced his desire to give me oral pleasures. It was a very cute afternoon."
Supreme Commander Thor
btw One of the cable channels is starting a new show soon called
'How to Be a Supermodel'.
NTodd, why don't you stay in and fill out that form for your membership to the Cherokee Tribe?
mimi, why not get out a map and locate the "Ivory Coast" on it.
I have really gotten the result I desired making this type of soup.
blerb
send some to Montréal, please!
NTodd, why don't you stay in and fill out that form for your membership to the Cherokee Tribe?
It's at home. And the main problem is our family was "passing" and avoided the Dawes Rolls, which makes it more difficult (read: impossible) to enroll now. But I'd intended to at least be on record as having tried.
I'm confused by your laughter, though, Miss Ivory.
Snow, honey, I know where the Ivory Coast is.
it's a couple hours away and I'm a bit fluish.
DK rallies are ecumenical.
btw One of the cable channels is starting a new show soon called
'How to Be a Supermodel'.
That would be Bravo, the home of the reality show.
BOOBIES!
Sign the laws passed by Congress and steer the agencies to efficiently carry out those laws.
But how many words should the Signing Statements contain?
only the wonkiest can truly claim to love thinking about policy specifics.
Good thing the MSM doesn't fit into that category, I can't imagine a news talk program with actual discussions about policy issues, especially the details about how average folks might be affected by new laws. booooring!
.fuck, the bitch is here.
plum p, Edwards 08
Indeed. I really wish everyone would just ignore it. It does seem to go away when it can't get a nibble.
Snow, honey, I know where the Ivory Coast is
Where?
HICA!
Oh, I have laughed and laughed and laughed. I need a nap!
.
Supreme Commander Thor | 01.05.08 - 12:47 pm | #
Amazing.
plum, t'es donc jalouse ma petite niaiseuse.
JP: a new blog ?
But how many words should the Signing Statements contain?
As many as the president would like introduced at the impeachment and trial.
Snow, honey, I know where the Ivory Coast is
Where?
It's no fair when people have highspeed access because they can google way faster than I can.
OK, I'll bite, while waiting for the disk utility to do its goodness on the desktop machine....
Here's what the next prez will do forthwith to fix our country.
1. Withdraw completely from Iraq, ideally with the full assistance of the UN, and with financial assistance to try to rebuild hospitals, schools and so on. That will stop the hemorrhaging of $ and (IMHO) lower the actual bloodletting. Will it stop the ongoing civil war? Probably not. Will it lessen its intensity? I think so.
2. Reinstate a rational tax structure, in particular so that the upper echelons of the income bracket pay a fairer share of the burden. If this be class warfare, tough. It's been class warfare for thirty years in this country, ever since Carter, and guess who's won every engagement?
3. Work towards energy independence by any means necessary. Get us off the Saudi teat.
4. Universal, single payer health care. Health insurance as a government program.
5. Improved public education at all levels.
The single biggest problem in this country is the death of the middle class and the continual oppression of the undereducated and poor. We need to eliminate poverty as far as this is possible, and if not, to eliminate the terrible consequences of poverty. And Lyndon Johnson showed us how to do it.
Also, if McCain is the nominee, a fundie uprising is entirely possible.
SteveLG |
In a McCain/Huckabee 08 run, the fundies figure McCain's good for one term tops then they get their guy for 8 years (More if McCain checks out early - so to speak).
We were gonna go to the Garden and Landscape expo at the Metrodome today, but Zapette's down with the flu.
Good news is that it'll get us out of a family reunion tomorrow. C'est la vie.
Brought to you by the republicans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l...h?
v=llIiNOFJ1NU
NTodd, I too am an undocumented Cherokee. I know for sure my mother's father was half Cherokee. They just wouldn't talk about it, and of course were too wily to ever sign on to the Dawes Commission rolls.
Sucks for me and my kids. No free health care and tuition.
plum p: JP: a new blog ?
Just for ridiculing one of the local wingers. Everyone told me I needed a hobby.
.
Salut! I'm off to dinner with a snowboarder I met the other day.
(Cherokee what an idiot!)
Why, thank you. But I didn't really describe it.
Holey moley. What an operation. But it sounds fabulous!
And brought to you by the republicans part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l...h?
v=llIiNOFJ1NU
FWIW
The total number of delegate votes needed to win the nomination is 2,025. Superdelegates account for approximately one fifth (19.7%) of all votes at the convention. Delegates chosen in the Democratic caucuses and primaries account for about four fifths (80.3%) of the Democratic convention delegates
Twenty percent... that's a hell of a lot.
But how many words should the Signing Statements contain?
As many as the president would like introduced at the impeachment and trial.
Sigh. When the GOP takes over the House in 2010, you can expect just that against President Hillobamwards.
Salut! I'm off to dinner with a snowboarder I met the other day.
Such a whore.
If the Republican Establishment, panicked by the Huckabee phenom, does finally get it together and propel whichever empty suit they really want to the nomination, will the Fundies finally realize how the Repugs have been using them and bolt the party?
Just wondering...
steve simels | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 12:42 pm | #
What percentage of the population is fundie? If they start a third party and there are enough of them, we will have an even worse mess on our hands.
The percentage at executive/senior pay levels has gone down from 7.1% in 2000. The percentage at grades 13-15 has gone up from 9.7%.
by the way NTodd, i ate a poutine last night... i can't eat a poutine witout thinking of you, dammit! You ruined the experience for me! I always imagine you behing me with a fork in your hand about to attack MY poutine! dammit
Sucks for me and my kids. No free health care and tuition.
Well, maybe we can still emigrate to the nation!
Chuck Todd saying that if McCain is the reThug nominee, no way does Senate go Democratic enough to fight off filibusters (altho' he did not use the F-word). (On the Timmeh Saturday MSNBC show)
tpm:
New Poll: Obama Up 10 in N.H.
Here's the latest from Rasmussen:
Obama 37%
Clinton 27%
McCain 31%
Romney 26%
c'mon huck!!!!!
from below
The smartest things about mimi's exes are that they are ex.
pie
And there certainly seem to have been quite a few. I guess once they figure out she's nuts they run for the hills. Or Alps as the case may be.
Simels: I'm beginning to agree with you. This is Annie/Alan.
How does one become a "super delegate"?
Hormones? Roids??
by the way NTodd, i ate a poutine last night... i can't eat a poutine witout thinking of you, dammit!
LOL!
My friend Steve, who lives in your neck of the woods, was up here for a few days and dropped by The Fortress. We chatted about dogs, Bloc politics, and...poutine!
What percentage of the population is fundie? If they start a third party and there are enough of them, we will have an even worse mess on our hands.
Brooklyn Girl, no longer sane
The good news is that being fundies, they are incredibly fragmented and can't agree with each other about anything. That's why there are all these little storefront churches and a bazillion different flavors of evangelical/fundamentalist xianity.
No free health care and tuition.
Um - from what entity would this bounty be provided?
Obama 37%
Clinton 27%
McCain 31%
Romney 26%
I don't think that Huck's gotta chance in NH.
SC, OTOH...
/Here's the latest from Rasmussen:
Obama 37%
Clinton 27%
I want to see some new polls from CA, NY, Texas, and FL. If he's surging there, then he may be a real threat to the Hillarynaught.
Superdelegates include the 235 Democratic House members and nonvoting representatives, 49 senators, the District of Columbia’s two “shadow senators” and 28 governors.
I note with some disappointment that Edwards' very short list includes some very bad Democrats: Herseth, Shuler, and Al Wynn to name three.
SteveLG | 01.05.08 - 12:46 pm | #
Shucks! You'd think his effin record over the last 15 years as a moderate-conservative means something?
If they start a third party and there are enough of them, we will have an even worse mess on our hands.
Brooklyn Girl, no longer sane | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 12:53 pm | #
Yep. That's been troubling me as well....
Am I nuts in thinking that, fairly or not, that Obama beating Clinton in Iowa had more to do with the war than his dreaminess?
No. That is a respectable conclusion. That's what I said yesterday, and the night of the caucuses. Obama is, more or less, untainted by any "votes" for the war, unlike the other senators. Now, what he would have done had he been in the Senate at the time...I just don't know.
Zoby has
Clinton 32%
Obama 26%
Edwards 20%
I want to see some new polls from CA, NY, Texas, and FL. If he's surging there, then he may be a real threat to the Hillarynaught.
blerb | 01.05.08 - 12:56 pm | #
I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire.
.Shucks! You'd think his effin record over the last 15 years as a moderate-conservative means something?
rootless-e
Well he was the senator from North Carolina. Can't ezzackly be a liberal firebrand and get elected there.
jdw- so i guess tpm and the pollsters have told those folks in NH they only have two choice.
i hope edwards is happy in the alternative universe he's been moved to by our press.
Such a whore.
pie
i really wish you wouldn't insult sex workers like that. they work hard and usually aren't delusional, it's unfair to make the comparison.
Such a whore.
pie
Such a troll-op!
Yep. That's been troubling me as well....
steve simels
steve: as you requested a couple of days ago: shut up!
you were sure last summer Thompson would end up prezzident, remember?
afternoon, all.
I'm having a little argument with a Paulista over at my blog. he thinks the New Deal was bad for America, whereas the robber baron era was teh awesomest.
whatever he's smokin', I don't want any.
Candidate
/Delegates
Clinton
111
Obama
59
Edwards
32
Richardson
11
Kucinich
2
Includes Superdelegates that have officially endorsed a candidate
hucks! You'd think his effin record over the last 15 years as a moderate-conservative means something?
WHy not post his 15 year record as a moderate-conservative or shut up.
"I don't think that Huck's gotta chance in NH."
i know, but i'd like him to take enuf votes from mccain for mitt! to win.
I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire.
rootless-e
Mid-December, she was polling 50% in CA and even higher in NY. NH is a tiny little state. McCain won it in 2000 and Little Boots still trounced him in the end. So I don't see how you can really say that.
I want to see some new polls from CA, NY, Texas, and FL. If he's surging there, then he may be a real threat to the Hillarynaught.
blerb | 01.05.08 - 12:56 pm | #
I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire.
rootless-e | 01.05.08 - 12:59 p
Well, I suspect that's what was said about her husband's '92 campaign.
Timmeh reporting that Clinton at an Iowa appearance said of Huckabee that he's the only ReThug who can give a speech and tell a joke. That he should not be underestimated.
David Gregory--problem is ReThugs don't know what they want--competence, fiscal conservatism, immigration controls, toughness on GWOT. etc.
Chuck Todd just made a comparison of local Arkansas reporting to Clinton--which was never about the local real journalism, the national MCMers picked up the shit from the Scaife types. Damn MCMers--always lie to cover themselves with wisdom and glory.
Now, Todd saying Romney and Hillary have changed themselves so much over the past few months that they can't win. Huh? earlier they were saying Hillary hadn't changed enough! All in the same talkfest!
"I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire."
what's a loss? numbr 2?
bc was able to survive and she's got a gazillion bucks..
I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire.
rootless-e
i don't see why we pretend it's a "democracy" when one caucus and one primary are enough to determine who will be our nom.
i'm so sick of this "win or it's over" crap i could puke. there are fifty fucking states, after all. i guess only a few of them count.
Includes Superdelegates that have officially endorsed a candidate
SteveLG | 01.05.08 - 1:00 pm | #
So that means Clinton already has almost twice as many delegates as Obama?
"I don't think that Huck's gotta chance in NH."
i know, but i'd like him to take enuf votes from mccain for mitt! to win.
jdw
I think Mr. "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" will win exactly one state: NH, and that by a nose.
Hackabee will definitely win in SC. It will end up being a duel between him and Mitt, and Hackabee will win.
I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire.
Since she's the only Dem in the primary in MI, the Villagers will hype that as some great comeback.
Don't put anything past those clods.
jawbone: SWITCH THAT CHANNEL! you will lose your sanity watching Timmeh
I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire.
rootless-e
She has lots of money. It'll survive quite awhile.
Well, dammit -- I'm HONGRY!
Got all this new cookware, and no food in the house. Reckon I gotta fire up the ol' Vino, and saddle up.
bbl
.
Good, stupid media coverage is exempt, pls see http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com
Its LIBRul
I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire.
rootless-e
It's still about accumulating delegates. I don't think this is going to be a year where one candidates gets all the others in "a submission hold" and they all drop out.
Every delegate is going to count this year, I think. There's no real incentive for any of the three to drop out... each has really strong states coming up, and Hillary's got a pretty sizable block of superdelegates likely to go her way.
That tribal degree-of-indian-blood card does bring benefits, either from the Bureau of Indian Affairs or from the Tribe, in my case Cherokee, itself. They have comprehensive health care clinics in my area and elsewhere. Also the tuition thing is real.
I've got no relatives left who could give me more information and my searches so far haven't yielded any information that would establish a link to somebody on the 1906 Dawes rolls, an absolute requirement for tribal recognition.
"Hackabee will definitely win in SC. "
i can't wait for the sc battle...that's gonna be a fucking awesome crackup...
The underdog candidates always have to try hard to leverage the early races so that they can create some kind of momentum. Hillary is running a 50-state strategy, because she has the money to do it. Time will tell which is the better plan.
WHy not post his 15 year record as a moderate-conservative or shut up.
Snow, Liberal | 01.05.08 - 1:00 pm | #
High points:
Patriot Act: Yes
AUMF: Yes
Bankruptcy Act Cloture: Yes
Debate with Cheney: Wimp
China trade: Yes
How about you point out to me a strong progressive stand in the Senate instead?
Timmeh just had David Gregory show off his patent leather Prada boots. David said his son picked them out for him. Okaaaaaaaaaay.
And now MSNBC goes all prisons/crime all the time.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about a third party of evangelicals. Seriously. There are not that many of them in this country, even if every one of them voted, to make a dent. As a bloc of the GOP, they are helpful.
7% of the population claim to be "evangelicals" - and I wonder if that number is even all that high, considering I know very few people who are traditional evangelicals.
She has lots of money. It'll survive quite awhile.
qlª Back Home
If and when Obama starts winning MAJORITIES rather than pluralities one might start to talk about the other candidates withdrawing.
I don't see how her campaign survives a loss in New Hampshire
Like I said, Zogby's new poll has her up by 12%. When we see these kinds of spreads I think we can safely disregard these polls.
chidi, that's how its always been. CA (and TX)isn't counted at all.
robber baron era was teh awesomest.
The golf links lie so near the mill
That almost every day
The laboring children can look out
And see the men at play.
Awesome.
How about you point out to me a strong progressive stand in the Senate instead?
You still can't back up the 15 year record can you? And then you want to limit me to the 6 years he was in the Senate? Fuck. You.
I'm having a little argument with a Paulista over at my blog. he thinks the New Deal was bad for America, whereas the robber baron era was teh awesomest.
whatever he's smokin', I don't want any.
madamab, feverish | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 1:00 pm | #
I just went there and I can't find it.
Link?
Intrade now has Senator Obama leading Senator Clinton for the nomination, 51.2 to 47.6. Senator Edwards is at 4.0.
Senator McCain is leading the Republican field at 33.8, followed by Mayor Giuliani at 31.0, Governor Huckabee at 15.5, and Governor Romney at 13.0.
If and when Obama starts winning MAJORITIES rather than pluralities one might start to talk about the other candidates withdrawing.
SteveLG | 01.05.08 - 1:06 pm | #
Not really. In any case, Hillary's weakness in Iowa validates what some of us have been saying: running a campaign in which you are evasive, at best, about the war, and boast of experience in an environment where people hate the war and washington is setting yourself up for failure.
Morning, again, rational people.
Sheesh, Ruth! You sure can be shrill when it comes to Fred Hiatt.
Bankruptcy Act Cloture: Yes
That would be fucking amazing given that he wasn't in the fucking senate during that vote.
Well, I suspect that's what was said about her husband's '92 campaign.
Where he came in second.
vicki, I have some evangelical neighbors, they round peepl up and take them to the polls and make sure they vote rightwing or they are going to be sorry because these fellas work at the courthouse.
Diane, that's not shrill, that's rational. which = shrill.
Awesome.
sidhra صي ذ& | 01.05.08 -
Yeah...it was a wonderful time, eh?
I linked to Naomi Klein's "Baghdad, Year Zero" to show him what a "free market" society really looks like.
I also told him to take the rest of his selfish libertarian friends and set up their own utopian society, since they are so right and we are so wrong.
Oh, how I wish he'd take me up on it. They'd all be dead in six months from starvation or violence. But of course, he's too busy feeding off the government teat to do any such thing.
well, i'm just thrilled to be casting my vote on electronic machines of dubious heritage.
Unless NY has decided to forestall the changeover.
chidi, that's how its always been. CA (and TX)isn't counted at all.
Ruth
yes, but this year is sort of different. the national party did decide to include more "diverse" early states, thus NV and SC got moved up. but when other states want the same treatment, like MI and FL, they get their delagates taken away. i blame the MI state party leadership for that, btw. all ego and no brains.
still, the Little People have been complaining, and trying to take action to make the primary season better, and the leadership isn't having it. that's the part that makes me maddest. fine, whatever, have your years-long, half a billion dollar campaign season. you've got to pay your masters, after all (the SCLM). but if we have to suffer all this shit, i'd really appreciate it if more of the nation could be included.
for the most part, everyone i'm reading is speaking as if it's over by SC. you can't tell me that has always been true.
You still can't back up the 15 year record can you? And then you want to limit me to the 6 years he was in the Senate? Fuck. You.
Snow, Liberal | 01.05.08 - 1:08 pm | #
No. You can pick up any progressive stand prior to the last 2 years.
The record is pretty clear
In the Senate he was moderate conservative
He has ZERO record of non-legislative progressive political action.
His super delegates are conservative moderate
His list of advisors is not quite as bad as Hillary's but it is conservative moderate.
What is it in his career that supports his current progressive rep?
And now MSNBC goes all prisons/crime all the time.
jawbone
What, no car chases?
Ruth, I know how they work, and I know that schools like Liberty U and Regent have curriculum on political public service. Falwell wanted to make sure that he kept the sheeple active in politics, since their numbers are low. It is scary shit. Everyone should be so committed.
What is it in his career that supports his current progressive rep?
This would interest me too.
steve simels - sorry! it's in the comments to this post.
Wow...it's going to get above the freezing mark here in Cap City today!
I feel.........spoiled.
What is it in his career that supports his current progressive rep?
rootless-e | 01.05.08 - 1:12 pm | #
George Bush
I think the scariest thing about Huckabee's potential candidacy is just that it's never really been tried, so we don't know what to expect. We can say with some confidence that the smokestack/warmonger model is pretty much moribund in 2008, but the fundie/populist tack is not nearly so worn-out. Maybe it creates an overwhelming groundswell, and maybe it loses in a landslide. I must say that a Huckabee/Obama general would be the closest thing to a test of our nation's soul than anything else I have seen in my life.
Timmeh reporting that Clinton at an Iowa appearance said of Huckabee that he's the only ReThug who can give a speech and tell a joke. That he should not be underestimated.
He significantly elided the rest of the rap from the Big Dog, which was that a recent poll in Arkansas has Hillary slightly ahead of Schmuckabee. And that she would carry AR in the general.
Timmeh, Timmeh.
-
-
well, i'm just thrilled to be casting my vote on electronic machines of dubious heritage.
Well, at least you get to cast a vote. I was informed this morning in The Grand Rapids Press that write-ins won't be counted. So I get to vote for Clinton or Gravel, or mark the ballot "uncommitted."
Grrrrrrrrrrr.
"Change" = youth:
Excellent post up at Ugga
http://uggabugga.blogspot.com/
for the most part, everyone i'm reading is speaking as if it's over by SC. you can't tell me that has always been true.
It hasn't, and I honestly don't think it will be over that soon in 2008.
I still think a National Primary the first Tuesday in June is the answer. Gives the candidates plenty of time to travel around the entire country to meet and greet (and, of course, raise money), and it gives the national parties plenty of time to prepare for their conventions.
This "it's all over by January 8th or even "it's all over by February 5" sucks.
Not really. In any case, Hillary's weakness in Iowa validates what some of us have been saying: running a campaign in which you are evasive, at best, about the war, and boast of experience in an environment where people hate the war and washington is setting yourself up for failure.
rootless-e
no, jac convinced me. it's a simple matter of charisma on teevee. obama's got it, hillary doesn't. that seems to be what most people (not here, of course) respond to and use to determine how they vote. obama is relatively free of a previous negative narrative about him too (not counting the 'the sherrif is a nigga' stuff) and it seems like a lot of not terribly informed people have decided that whatever they want, obama will deliver. again, it's easy for this to work for him, as most people don't know much about his record specifics (and probably wouldn't change their beliefs about him even if they did.)
Maverick just said that a Medicare trust fund should take all people with pre-existing conditions -- and then that he's against any expansion of the federal government.
I guess I'm itching to see what the NH outcome and turnout is on Tuesday. If there are once again masses of new Dem voters and "change" frontrunner(s), I would like to see some strategic attempt by all Dems to harness the people's desires into a winning gen election platform. I'm for a long primary season -- unless it's an internecine bloodbath of bad oppo research and fear-raising.
chidy, gotta tellya, CA and TX never have mattered on election night, but as to primaries, it's always been Ioway and NH and that's the whole story. It takes intelligence to campaign anywhere else, I guess.
Any doctors out here? why is my pinkie numb?
Ruth | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 1:04 pm ~~~ There's a good round-up of international articles about the Iowa primary at Ruth and Diane's place.
Barone is infuriating, saying the candidates are thin on policy--could he not have pointed out that the US MCM* simply does not cover issues? Often not reality or facts either?
Dammit, Barone. The Dem candidates, at least Edwards and Hillary, Obama has some details as well, have well-presented policies, which can be read--but the press basically ignores them in favor of some horserace with the handicaps supplied only by the MCM.
*MCM--Mainstream Corporate Media
(And I need a little settee-sized chair for working at the computer--my big boy cat wants to sit alongside me and there's not quite enough room. Do office stores sell cat and human sized desk chairs?)
Diane, I think your idea is a good one. An excellent one.
Level the playing field - all candidates have the same amount of money to spend to visit each state. Only public financing - nothing else. It'd be interesting to see how the money is spent, and to see who comes out on top.
wt -
check out BradBlog today. looks like NY may be getting a clue.
You can pick up any progressive stand prior to the last 2 years.
Where is the 15 year record of moderate conservatism? He was in elected office for 6 years. Where is the 15 years coming from? I'll give you his record as a trial lawyer described in Four Trials as a progressive stand, but where is 15 years coming from? Did you just make that shit up? Is OneCorps too moderate-conservative? That would surprise its volunteers.
" it's a simple matter of charisma on teevee. obama's got it, hillary doesn't."
i think it depends on the venue. in speeches i've seen, obama shines. in the debates, i think hrc has won every one i've seen.
fucking around with photoshop.
National Primary Day. Yeah.
I've been to primaries and caucuses.
Caucuses should be banned as cruel and unusual punishment.
fucking around with photoshop.
Pur-dee!
I still think a National Primary the first Tuesday in June is the answer. Gives the candidates plenty of time to travel around the entire country to meet and greet (and, of course, raise money),
The media darlings with tons of money anyway. The small time candidates, not so much. You get Clinton and Obama. No one else.
"my big boy cat wants to sit alongside me and there's not quite enough room."
whatever you do, do not let him start looking at kitty pron. you'll never get the mouse away from him....
vicki, I am sure it's LibertyU etc. out there changing their party too. ugh.
steve simels - sorry! it's in the comments to this post.
madamab, feverish | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 1:14 pm | #
Found it.
And I just gave the little twit a piece of my mind...
You know, the current method of selecting candidates is relatively new: as in during my life time.
At least until the late'50's, early 60's, the candidate got selected at the convention and not before.
Now, the "smoke filled room" "horse trading atmosphere" is not something I'd like to go back to, but there's nothing particularly holy about New Hampshire and Iowa.
What is it in his career that supports his current progressive rep?
rootless-e
the top three dems are all moderate/conservative dems. i think most people can agree on that. the differences that people perceive come from what they are saying of late; i think edwards has made some rather progressive statements but of course that's just an opinion.
in the end, it comes down to hope, and trust. of which i have virtually none for any of them. still, you've got to pick, and edwards not taking as much corporate money is a big positive in my book, as well as his ability to admit he was wrong about his war vote.
but anyone hoping for an actually progressive administration is kidding themselves. we'll get lots more of the same, only with a dem bent. hello, the war is still going on, and the dem leadership has caved and caved. why are we expecting that to change? i'm not.
Thank you!!!!
These days I can't read some of my favorite blogs for the reason you mention.
why is my pinkie numb?
No flirting!
National Primary Day. Yeah.
What I'm sayin'.
Either that, or adopt the Australian system of no primaries - you mark off who your favorite is, followed by your second, etc. Whoever gets the most votes wins.
Hokay, errands beckon.
Back in a bit...
Either that, or adopt the Australian system of no primaries - you mark off who your favorite is, followed by your second, etc. Whoever gets the most votes wins.
Instant runoff voting?
I think that's a great model.
i think it depends on the venue. in speeches i've seen, obama shines. in the debates, i think hrc has won every one i've seen.
jdw
I agree with this.
I also don't see the lack of charisma with HRC. Every time we see her on teevee, we think she looks great, she sounds great and she seems extremely presidential. It just seems like she can handle whatever anyone throws at her.
I do see that Barack Obama has charisma for days, but not in a debate. Honestly, if his positions were better defined, rather than being mostly echoes of Hillary and kumbaya platitudes, I think he would probably crush the other candidates.
"and edwards not taking as much corporate money is a big positive in my book, as well as his ability to admit he was wrong about his war vote."
yup.
"why are we expecting that to change? i'm not."
i'm not hoping for much but just a break from daily outrage.
why is my pinkie numb?
No flirting!
leibniz, monadΩ
I love u
why are we expecting that to change? i'm not.
That is my biggest beef with HRC. Clearly by her own words she doesn't intend to alter our current foreign policy much. That's all I need to know.
I am sure it's LibertyU etc. out there changing their party too. ugh.
Yeah, and the killer is that it's really just a small faction of people. That's why there will be a war between the corporatist GOP and the evangelical GOP. The plain old godless conservatives, those middle class morons who don't make money anywhere near the top 2% and don't buy into America's role in the Second Coming of Christ are being screwed by the party to which they give their loyalty, and the sad thing is that those folks are actually the majority of conservatives.
"rather than being mostly echoes of Hillary and kumbaya platitudes, I think he would probably crush the other candidates."
but it's precisely the generalities and platitudes that are apparently winning over the indies and the kids...he's got nothing to gain with specifics.
i think it depends on the venue. in speeches i've seen, obama shines. in the debates, i think hrc has won every one i've seen.
I was kind of upset with Big Dog's "roll the dice" bit on Charlie Rose a few nights back. Thought it was a bit, well, dumb.
But shit...if we're gonna vote for charisma and speechifying, we may as well be voting for best dressed.
steve simels - nicely done!
New Poll: Obama Up 10 in N.H.
Here's the latest from Rasmussen:
Obama 37%
Clinton 27%
McCain 31%
Romney 26%
there will be a war between the corporatist GOP and the evangelical GOP.
Bring it on.
chicago dyke, daring to belitt | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 1:22 pm | #
That's pretty much what I think - although I find Obama's change rhetoric less patronizing than Edwards.
Wonkette has the shakycam video of HRC being booed by Obama-ists.
"why are we expecting that to change? i'm not."
i'm not hoping for much but just a break from daily outrage.
jdw
none of the Dems are progressive enough for me, but I want a fighter, not a lover.
also - I am optimistic that once there is a Dem pres and Dem Congress, we can really influence them with our activism and get them to go with a progressive agenda.
"I was kind of upset with Big Dog's "roll the dice" bit on Charlie Rose a few nights back. Thought it was a bit, well, dumb."
as well as his comment about how he was against the war from the start.
i'm really shocked at how badly her campaign has handled things, and perhaps if it ws gonna be this bad in the generl, it's best she does get knocked out now.
i think it depends on the venue. in speeches i've seen, obama shines. in the debates, i think hrc has won every one i've seen.
jdw
and yet, i feel as if very few people are actually thinking and paying attention to what is said in the debates, or who is "winning" according to high school rules of debate.
obama is "dreamy, clean and articulate" and just light enough to be less scary than other black men, but just dark enough to be "an exciting change." we're talking about the same americans who've sat still thru 8 years of bush and accepted two stolen elections and a war based on lies, and frankly i think sometimes we here give the voters a little too much credit.
obama makes some feel good; many people are feeling bad right now, thus he's the 'logical' choice.
obama makes some feel good
Agreed. I'd compare it to Reagan's appeal at some level.
Warm fuzzies...
Who was the idiot who said they were going to vote for Obama and if he didn't get it for McCain in the general. Never underestimate how uninformed the general public is.
aiiight. back later.
You can judge the racism of this country by watching Obama's post talk greeting of the crowds versus McCain's. Obama had 3-4 SS men around him. I don't see any around McCain.
"none of the Dems are progressive enough for me, but I want a fighter, not a lover."
i agree....the thing that bothers me with obama is the constant 'let's move on and let bygones be bygones'...fuck that shit.
and as far as policy goes, like atrios says we have political fights because we have strong differences. i don't want anyone thinking our leaders are gonna start with compromise and then compromise further.
I know everyone thinks the Democrats have a "strong" field, but I don't necessarily buy it.
Call me a purist, I suppose, but I really want strong leadership and radical change. This country isn't the country I was taught to love when I was younger. It's morphed into something I don't respect at this point in time.
also - I am optimistic that once there is a Dem pres and Dem Congress, we can really influence them with our activism and get them to go with a progressive agenda.
madamab, feverish
i worked on the Hill, believe me, you can influence them - as LBJ told MLK re civil rights, you have to make them do it.
Here's the thing about this front-loading of importance in the primaries: a lot can happen in the next six months.
Another Bhutto can be assassinated.
We attack Iran.
The deal with North Korea on nuclear weapons could completely disintegrate.
The Middle East "roadmap" will be completely burned up in the flames in Gaza.
We get not a recession, but a full-blown depression as all of our national notes get called in by our friendly international neighbors.
I want to know how each of the candidates would respond. That isn't possible now.
none of the Dems are progressive enough for me, but I want a fighter, not a lover.
also - I am optimistic that once there is a Dem pres and Dem Congress, we can really influence them with our activism and get them to go with a progressive agenda.
madamab, feverish
More and more I'm thinking about Russ Feingold and his Progressive Patriot PAC, MoveOn, etc. Cause it's all about the money. If he and people and groups like him can get enough money to cause trouble and have influence, things might change. I think I'm gonna send Dodd some money with a note about FISA
also - I am optimistic that once there is a Dem pres and Dem Congress, we can really influence them with our activism and get them to go with a progressive agenda.
madamab
not this bunch. as someone said the other day, this is a 20 year project we're talking about. unless and until we can decouple the leading dems from corporate money, we're sort of screwed.
i believe that the only tool progressives really have is primary challenges. fill the house with progressives and we will get somewhere, but until then, i expect more or less the same as what we have now, albeit with pro-choice judges on the bench.
Obama had 3-4 SS men around him. I don't see any around McCain.
Maybe no one gives a shit if McStain gets whacked.
"Feeling good" about making a change is a great motivator. It's a movement builder. I know this is obvious as heck, but, hey, it's Saturday afternoon, gang!
i worked on the Hill, believe me, you can influence them - as LBJ told MLK re civil rights, you have to make them do it.
Ruth
Where is my barnburner?
Where is my LBJ?
"Who was the idiot who said they were going to vote for Obama and if he didn't get it for McCain in the general"
well, there was the one lady i heard on the radio yesterday...mid 40's, ex military who was voting for hillary.
she said if hrc lost she was voting for mccain because she was concered about iraq and national security, which shouldn't be trusted to someone without experience....about made me throw up.
although I find Obama's change rhetoric less patronizing than Edwards.
Patronizing?
u.That is my biggest beef with HRC. Clearly by her own words she doesn't intend to alter our current foreign policy much. That's all I need to know.
That's just nonsense. HRC may have been cowed into voting for the AUMF in the wake of 9/11, and she may pay a lot of lipservice to the Likudniks, but there is no way in hell she would have just up and invaded Iraq herself. her foreign policy would likely be a replay of Bill's foreign policy. IIRC, Bill was among the most beloved US presidents abroad in recent memory.
Where is the 15 year record of moderate conservatism? He was in elected office for 6 years. Where is the 15 years coming from? I'll give you his record as a trial lawyer described in Four Trials as a progressive stand, but where is 15 years coming from? Did you just make that shit up? Is OneCorps too moderate-conservative? That would surprise its volunteers.
Snow, Liberal | 01.05.08 - 1:19 pm | #
First: your bullying style may go over well somewhere, but it just annoys me.
Second: OneCorps is a campaign stunt. Look at its web page.
Third: Edwards beat that sick fuck Faircloth in 1998. Since that time, he has had a varied career - but one solidly in the moderate southern democrat tradition. Before that time he had a conventional, if successful, career as a plantiffs lawyer.
He's not a bad guy, but his "progressivism" is weakly supported. I don't see a big difference between him and Obama on this.
Maybe McCain's Secret Service doods were helping the Blogette move her wardrobe.
frankly i think sometimes we here give the voters a little too much credit.
remember when only white landowners could vote, you want that back?
I know everyone thinks the Democrats have a "strong" field, but I don't necessarily buy it.
--------------
Me either, but I'm not sure we mean the same thing. The Democrats are famous for having candidates that I get enthusiastic about out of sheer loyaltie, but end up wondering what in the hell we were thinking once the election was over.
Call me a purist, I suppose, but I really want strong leadership and radical change.
It seems as if the game now is to make people think you're going to do someone once you get into the White House--and then bust your ass to keep dancing to snow the rubes.
Then once in the White House: status quo, baby. At least it looks that way for the front runners on the Dem side save Edwards.
That's just nonsense.
Tell Hillary. It's her words.
I'd better go call my parents.
Later.
This is off thread but I just found an great pic of a duck named Kwistol.
http://walled-in-pond.blogspot.c...ntload-
and.html
He does look like another duck tho.
" her foreign policy would likely be a replay of Bill's foreign policy."
probably, and i think both would do so much to help restore our standing in the world.
i think her iran vote, moreso then her iraq vote, really hurt her bad...
Amazing. I sent my New Year's rant to all in my addy book along with a forward of Michael Moore's pre-caucus letter. My very Catholic, very socially conservative sister, who voted TWICE for bushco, AGREED with me and said that she too will support John Edwards... now THAT is hopeful. If she is paying attention then maybe others are as well.
http://
www.washingtonspectator.c...01evolution.cfm
.unless and until we can decouple the leading dems from corporate money, we're sort of screwed.
The first and highest priority any new Democratic administration should have is to instutute full public financing of all camopaigns for national political office. I think that pretty much all the Dems are in favor of it. It would be the single most effective strategy possible to insure a lengthy Democratic ascendancy, and clean up the act of the Democrtts as well.
Wow. Scaife really is a scumbag
Digby
All right. Off to start soup and bread, and then to the fabric store to find a yard of fabric and some beads to make a mantle scarf for my fireplace.
ruth, goodness no! voting is a sacrement in my family.
no, i'm merely lamenting the result of +30 years of declining public education and the destruction of a once (slightly) more critical and fact based press.
i just can't believe americans have always been this stoopid when it comes to politics, even as i do think people must accept at least some of the blame for letting "leaders" like these ruin the country.
i think her iran vote, moreso then her iraq vote, really hurt her bad...
I agree.
More and more I'm thinking about Russ Feingold and his Progressive Patriot PAC, MoveOn, etc. Cause it's all about the money. If he and people and groups like him can get enough money to cause trouble and have influence, things might change. I think I'm gonna send Dodd some money with a note about FISA
Jim, Collieresque
Absolutely. I've done it already and I'm going to do it again.
Chidyke - I disagree. I live in New York and I know that Hillary responds when her constituents write or call her.
I'm going with Thom Hartmann on this one. We elect representatives, not leaders. Even FDR was not FDR until he got to the White House.
Unfortunatley, the current SCROTUS may well stand foursquare in opposition to public campaign financing.
i think her iran vote, moreso then her iraq vote, really hurt her bad...
I agree.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore | 01.05.08 - 1:39 pm | #
Plus her arrogant refusal to admit error.
Edwards beat that sick fuck Faircloth in 1998
And 1998 was by my calculation 9 years ago.
Your lying style might go over well some places, but I won't tolerate it.
Where is my barnburner?
Where is my LBJ?
Jim, Collieresque
lloyd Doggett, Glenn Melancon, Barney Frank, and Whitehouse, for starts.
.i think her iran vote, moreso then her iraq vote, really hurt her bad...
it hurt her badly with some people,and helped her with others. For most, it had no effect. And most of the ones with whom it hurt her would vote for her in the general election anyway. She is quite calculating that way.
The first and highest priority any new Democratic administration should have is to instutute full public financing of all camopaigns for national political office. I think that pretty much all the Dems are in favor of it. It would be the single most effective strategy possible to insure a lengthy Democratic ascendancy, and clean up the act of the Democrtts as well.
blerb
WORD!
I think that pretty much all the Dems are in favor of it.
i would greatly appreciate some evidence of this. i can believe the younger set, especially those who just got to DC in 06, are probably shocked and annoyed at how much their jobs are about fundraisers. but the rest? reid? snort. please feel free to prove me wrong, i would like to be.
"Plus her arrogant refusal to admit error."
i dunno what is up with that, either..
The first and highest priority any new Democratic administration should have is to instutute full public financing of all camopaigns for national political office.
Another good cause for majority leader Dodd.....
He's in an interesting place, a pissed-off insider, more a member of the club than Reid. He's pretty good on the TeeVee, too. Totally pawned (am I using that right?) O'Reilly a few months back. I think if he gets stoked enough, he could really make a difference.
My contribution to Dodd is growing as I think about it.
blerb,
She has been nothing but evasive regarding any plans for Iraq with the exception of already stating that she will maintain military engagement there.
fascist WSJ:
Yes, it's early days. We haven't even picked nominees, let alone a president. There's more than a year to go until the new CEO of America Inc. takes office.
So the chances have risen that Washington could see single party rule again, with Democrats in charge at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.
Look at the areas that would feel the effects.
It would surely be, on balance, negative for the banks. The Democrats would be expected to take a tougher line against everything from credit-card fees and usury rates to "predatory" lending. Sen. Obama has already spoken out on behalf of mortgagees in crisis. And with no Republican president to exercise a veto, they would have broad freedom to act.
And it wouldn't be good news for pharmaceuticals and health insurers either. Although the leading Democrats differ in how far they want to go and how they want to get there, all strongly support expanding health coverage. At the very least, the uncertainty would leave related stocks under a cloud. And more ambitious plans could mean the government takes a much tougher line on health costs.
Among industries, one big winner would be alternative energy.
We don't know what will happen before the next inauguration, but don't dismiss everything that will happen after it either. In particular, don't underestimate the power of lobbying to blunt reforms inside the Beltway. The industries most under threat are the ones that wield the most financial clout.
LOBBYISTS will blunt any reform - and the WALL SHEET fascists are teh enablers - there it is right there, the motherfuckers have to deal with a culture so ignorant, they can say how they get things done without anyone getting it
She is quite calculating that way.
As opposed to other politicians.
She is quite calculating that way.
------------------------
The reason given by people who claim they would never vote for her.
Here's the thing about this front-loading of importance in the primaries: a lot can happen in the next six months.
[snip]
Diane C. Barking-Mad
You left out the one that if it happens it will be the only campaign issue - another terrorist attack in the US even if the casualties are relatively small.
http://wonkette.com/340839/bill-...rhood-of-
murder
I don't think the Wonkette guy likes Hillary or Bill--offers up this guilt by neighborhood shot. Someone in the neighborhood apparently killed his wife--ergo...people around Bill and Hill die.
I for one hope you'll get back to The Shitpile.
"The new ceo of america"?
What. The. Fuck.
chiDy: +30 years of declining public education and the destruction of a once (slightly) more critical and fact based press.
That's why we have to be the fact purveyors, and keep the pressure up.
love ya, keep on keeping on.
She is quite calculating that way.
As opposed to other politicians.
Hecate
Her vagina cackle-ates in binary hexadecimal.
.She has been nothing but evasive regarding any plans for Iraq with the exception of already stating that she will maintain military engagement there.
What she was evasive about was the pledge that by the end of her first term, there would be no US troops whatsoever left in Iraq. She did however promise that the "vast majority" of them would be gone. Make of that what you will, but she did not actually state that she intended to maintain a military engagement there.
As opposed to other politicians.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Don't forget her ambition, which is raw. Whereas McCain's has been slowly stewing in a pot of desperate and crazy since the summer of 2000, and Obama's which was pan-seared in '04 and is being served black and blue.
(That phrase --raw ambition--always cracks me up even as it pisses me off)
She did however promise that the "vast majority" of them would be gone.
Got a link?
You left out the one that if it happens it will be the only campaign issue - another terrorist attack in the US even if the casualties are relatively small.
Bond, James Bond
I really don't see how a terrorist attack helps any Republic, since they are all on record supporting Bush's "We're fighting them over there so they won't attack here" BS.
If they attack here, wouldn't that, um, kinda prove that the Republics are full of shit?
I know that's what I'd say if I were running for Pres.
Your lying style might go over well some places, but I won't tolerate it.
Snow, Liberal | 01.05.08 - 1:40 pm | #
All that huffing and puffing does not create a single bit of support for your argument. Look back 15 years on Edwards and you will find very little record to support his progressive credentials.
Obama was, at least, a civil rights lawyer and community activist.
.As opposed to other politicians.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Honestly, I did not intend it in a derogatory way. Rather, I meant to say that I believe the things she has done that hurt her with progressives were done out of political calculation rather than real personal sentiment. She does not shoot from the hip, ever. It worked well for Bill, it may yet wiork well for her, surging Obama notwithstanding.
I guess Edwards' long record of defending the little guy against big corporations means nothing?
I really don't see how a terrorist attack helps any Republic, since they are all on record supporting Bush's "We're fighting them over there so they won't attack here" BS.
As long as, if this were FSM forbid to occur, they point out this simple fact, ignoring the shocked horror of David Broder and his calls for "putting aside partisanship at this time of tragedy"
okay, got stuff callin me, the WaPo has a grate argument/ it's librul. at http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com
Who better to know how slimey corporations are than someone who has spent years suing them?
Go Edwards!
I guess Edwards' long record of defending the little guy against big corporations means nothing?
madamab, feverish | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 1:49 pm | #
Not to me. There's nothing wrong with being a plantiff's lawyer, but I'm not a huge fan of lawyers second guessing ceasarians.
If they attack here, wouldn't that, um, kinda prove that the Republics are full of shit?
No.
It will only 'prove' that our enemies are resourceful
It will prove that liberals and Dems empower terrorists
It will show that we haven't incarcerated enough people at Guant. Bay
It will show that our GWOT is not yet over.
And so on.
I will gladly write the speech for Chimpy the night this attack takes place, if ever. It'll be simple.
No one (not even the Democrats) is going to blame Bush with dead Americans scattered around on TV after a terrorist hit. No one!
As long as, if this were FSM forbid to occur, they point out this simple fact, ignoring the shocked horror of David Broder and his calls for "putting aside partisanship at this time of tragedy"
Jim, Collieresque
Of course the media won't do it, but I hope at least one of the candidates would be smart enough to point it out.
Got a link?
cahuenga
No, I will not spend half an hour finding a link for you. I am not a liar.That is what she said. It was one of the debates last year, like in November. Everybody was tearing their hair out about how only Edwards would promise to get us out of Iraq and how Hillary and Obama were both really Republicans. So I went and looked at the whole thing on YouTube. Hillary said she would not promise all, but that assuredsly the "vast majority" woudl be out by the end of her first term. That is what she said. This statement is what was then used to paint her as a bloodthisty warmonger ala Dick Cheney.
(AP) Wyoming Republicans choose 12 delegates Saturday to the GOP national convention in August, an attempt to have a brief moment in the political spotlight by weighing in early in the selection of a presidential nominee.
The day's first delegate, out of Albany County in southeastern Wyoming, went to Mitt Romney. Results were expected to trickle in throughout the day.
I guess Edwards' long record of defending the little guy against big corporations means nothing?
madamab, feverish
------------------
You mean getting rich while fleecing the big targets. It was just fortuitious that there was a "little guy" getting helped along the way.
i dunno what is up with that, either..
jdw
afraid of the flip flopper nonsense. First she was for it before she was against it.
In any case, if someone could prove to me that anyone of those three would be assured of beating the republicans, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
.In any case, if someone could prove to me that anyone of those three would be assured of beating the republicans, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
rootless-e
Honestly, I think that is what it is really about. On most material measures, I think they'll all end up being pretty much the same.
All that huffing and puffing does not create a single bit of support for your argument.
I'm not making an argument; you are. So support your contention with objective facts, not just your subjective opinion.
mmmkay, must go. have a great weekend, bats and battistas!
blerb,
Hillary's own ridiculous, evasive words regarding the future in Iraq if she is elected. She grudgingly admits that she will keep many troops there
Her referenced record regarding Iraq
No horse race posts? Does this mean all urban planning, all the time?
It's spelled 'pwned' or 'pwn3d' and pronounced 'owned.'
" First she was for it before she was against it."
she maintains that her vote was for the chimp to use diplomacy. even a partisan like myself can't defend that bullshit...
No, I will not spend half an hour finding a link for you. I am not a liar.
[snip]
blerb
Thanks so much. Even more annoying than the trolls and the folks who feed them here are those who call someone a bullshiter if they don't provide a link as if they were working on a PhD thesis with 40 pages of references at hand.
Honestly, I think that is what it is really about. On most material measures, I think they'll all end up being pretty much the same.
blerb
My Concern about Obama is that he believes his own press, and will spend six months getting the football pulled before he figures things out.
I'm not making an argument; you are. So support your contention with objective facts, not just your subjective opinion.
Snow, Liberal | 01.05.08 - 1:55 pm | #
The objective facts are as stated:
In the 9/10 years since the start of political career - solid record as moderate conservative politician.
In the years preceding political career, solid record as a-political plantiffs attorney.
No basis for Edwards as progressive white hope.
"putting aside partisanship at this time of tragedy"
If one party's proposed response is to blindly lash out in anger (blow shit up), while the other's is to methodically track down and punish the perpetrators of an attack, then partisanship is required. Simpering idiots like Broder are afraid to face that reality.
"My Concern about Obama is that he believes his own press, and will spend six months getting the football pulled before he figures things out."
i know the press won't give him a 4 year honeymoon like they gave the chimp.
In any case, if someone could prove to me that anyone of those three would be assured of beating the republicans, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
rootless-e
-----------------
Aye, theres the heart of the matter.
As bigoted as it is, at times I almost catch myself leaning towards Edwards just so we will have our own white guy to run against their white guy. Although I do wish it was a white guy who hadn't been so successfully portrayed as a well coifed, beta male by the republicans. And then we have Hillary who has been very successfully portrayed (and has played into) as some of the worst stereotypes of women that people dislike.
Obama so far has only been obliquely attacked for his race (too liberal being a code word for black), but I worry thats enough.
It's always our candidates that worry me.
but I'm not a huge fan of lawyers second guessing ceasarians.
You mean getting rich while fleecing the big targets.
Such stunning examples of insight into a profession of which you obviously know nothing.
This being Saturday, I will make my offer again:
If anybody here can give me a convincing -- I said, convincing -- reason to believe Hillary will tack to the left upon becoming president, I will shut up about her for a full month.
Help me out here, people!!!!
she maintains that her vote was for the chimp to use diplomacy. even a partisan like myself can't defend that bullshit...
jdw
I think they thought Poppy and Uncle Colin would reign Junior in. They were wrong then, of course, but I think that's what they thought.
there it is right there, the motherfuckers have to deal with a culture so ignorant, they can say how they get things done without anyone getting it
mogwai, cloud 9 dweller
DING! DING! DING!
That's the truest, and saddest thing I've read in a while.
"My Concern about Obama is that he believes his own press, and will spend six months getting the football pulled before he figures things out."
He talked about that explicitly in his NH speech today. Obama is not stupid.
and the folks who feed them here are those who call someone a bullshiter if they don't provide a link
Backing up your assertions is so '90's
If anybody here can give me a convincing -- I said, convincing -- reason to believe Hillary will tack to the left upon becoming president, I will shut up about her for a full month.
I wish I could take on this challenge, just to get you to stop baiting trolls. But alas, I can't think of a single reason.
Such stunning examples of insight into a profession of which you obviously know nothing.
Snow, Liberal | 01.05.08 - 1:59 pm | #
I know a lot of doctors and lawyers and I stand by it. Edwards record of suing physicians for not going to ceasarian fast enough is not evidence of supporting the little guy.
Totally OT, but --
I would just like to go on record here as saying that Ileanna Douglas could have me if she played her cards right.
That's not weird, is it?
"We now turn away from our political coverage to resume our beautiful music programming on Eschaton Radio. Here's Gogol Bordello with a fine selection of Gypsy shit."
Interesting how no one seems to like a "trial lawyer" -- until they find themselves going to trial.
Interesting how no one seems to like a "trial lawyer" -- until they find themselves going to trial.
Toonscribe: Cartoon Liberal | 01.05.08 - 2:02 pm | #
Trial lawyers are fine. But they are hired guns, not caped crusaders for justice.
"We now turn away from our political coverage to resume our beautiful music programming on Eschaton Radio. Here's Gogol Bordello with a fine selection of Gypsy shit."
Roadmaster, Milwaukee Office | 01.05.08 - 2:02 pm | #
Hah!
At least he doesn't dedicate Yes videos to you....
Help me out here, people!!!!
steve simels
Don't look at me, Steve. I share your lack of enthusiasm.
That's not weird, is it?
She's kind of bug-eyed...
I would just like to go on record here as saying that Ileanna Douglas could have me if she played her cards right.
That's not weird, is it?
steve simels
Have you seen her in Action? (Pun unintended but I'm too lazy to reword that)
"If anybody here can give me a convincing -- I said, convincing -- reason to believe Hillary will tack to the left upon becoming president, I will shut up about her for a full month."
i think that almost all of 'em are, in the heart of hearts, much more liberal then they vote and take in their public stances. i think bill went pretty left after getting elected: gays in the military, health care reform, tax increase on the wealthiest, etc.
in fact, it helped the goopers win in 1994.
I would just like to go on record here as saying that Ileanna Douglas could have me if she played her cards right.
That's not weird, is it?
steve simels
Hell no.
Have you seen the outtakes on the "Chasing Amy" DVD?
Edwards record of suing physicians for not going to ceasarian fast enough is not evidence of supporting the little guy.
Oh, please. The continual attacks on all the Dems are getting really old. Oddly, none of them are perfect; turns out that they're all human. None of them are THE answer so I guess we'll all just have to participate and do the best we can
"I will immediately move to begin bringing our troops home when I am inaugurated...[But there] may be a continuing counter-terrorism mission, which, if it still exists, will be aimed al Qaeda in Iraq. It may require combat, Special Operations Forces or some other form of that, but the vast majority of our combat troops should be out."
--Hillary Clinton, Democratic debate, Dartmouth College, New Hampshire, September 26, 2007.
You can drive a Bradley through those loopholes, but there are the words.
I think they thought Poppy and Uncle Colin would reign Junior in. They were wrong then, of course, but I think that's what they thought.
Jim, Collieresque | 01.05.08 - 2:00 pm | #
You never know what goes on inside someone's mind, but I'd bet that Hillary's decision was 100% based on fear of the political fallout of opposing a popular war-time president.
Edwards record of suing physicians for not going to ceasarian fast enough is not evidence of supporting the little guy.
Then you know it wasn't Edwards second guessing the physician. You know that it is the objective standard of care for the profession that the defendant physician violated, the objective standard of care for his entire profession and not some know nothing lawyer. Since you have so much insight, I mean.
Interesting how no one seems to like a "trial lawyer" -- until they find themselves going to trial.
Toonscribe: Cartoon Liberal
----------------------
Thats because they are viewed as opportunists who make their money exploiting the tragedy of others. Yeah, it's nice to have one around when you need him...but in the end he's a tool to your own means of getting justice (and one thats going to get a hefty cut of the settlement), not necessarily somebody you respect as a human being.
Help me out here, people!!!!
steve simels
I responded once before and I think you missed it.
Other than the war, Hillary has a solid liberal background. Tom Hartman said this week that her voting record in the Senate is 91% liberal. On what issue are you unsure. Education? She is largely responsible for the SChip program and worked hard at expanding Head Start and getting qualified teachers as first lady of AR. Health Care? She is for universal access. How we get there will be a bit slower because of what happened with Harry & Louise, but basically her plan will eventually squeeze out the insurance companies. Choice? She's been pro-choice from her college days and has not shown any inclination to change now.
So Steve, on what issue?
I think Clinton and/or Obama are going to need a stronger caucus of Better Dems in the House and especially the Senate to keep them from reconciling with Joe Lieberman. Edwards would need it just as much if for slightly different reasons.
In any case.... Down Ticket counts big
"You never know what goes on inside someone's mind, but I'd bet that Hillary's decision was 100% based on fear of the political fallout of opposing a popular war-time president."
that's true of anyone, tho...
Every dictator in the world knows that Dumbya stole two elections. They must laugh their asses off when they hear him talk about "democracy."
As Jesus said: "Clean out your own stable before you diss mine."
Tucker's interview of John Mccain on the bus was sickening yesterday
Oh, please. The continual attacks on all the Dems are getting really old. Oddly, none of them are perfect; turns out that they're all human. None of them are THE answer so I guess we'll all just have to participate and do the best we can
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 2:05 pm | #
I'm absolutely not attacking Edwards. I just don't buy his plantiff's atttorney record as being Thurgood Marshall like.
Hillary said she would not promise all, but that assuredsly the "vast majority" woudl be out by the end of her first term. That is what she said. This statement is what was then used to paint her as a bloodthisty warmonger ala Dick Cheney.
blerb | 01.05.08 - 1:52 pm | #
It was not used to paint her as a bloodthirsty warmonger. It was used, accurately, to paint her as possibly untrustworthy and certainly not unequivocably against the war.
Which is where she still is at this moment, with the addition of being equally woozy on Iran.
Backing up your assertions is so '90's
cahuenga |
My experiences here relate to folks blabbering about scientific and technical issues about which they clearly know nothing. Responding to that blabbering in clear language with detailed examples derived from decades of research in those areas is sufficient 'backing up' IMHO.
Thats because they are viewed as opportunists who make their money exploiting the tragedy of others. Yeah, it's nice to have one around when you need him...but in the end he's a tool to your own means of getting justice (and one thats going to get a hefty cut of the settlement), not necessarily somebody you respect as a human being.
Wow. How is that any different from the plumber who exploits my tragedy of an overflowing toilet or the doctor who exploits my tragedy of a sore throat or the farmer who exploits my tragedy of being hungry. Why wouldn't I respect all of those people as human beings?
Other than the war, Hillary has a solid liberal background
Other than the WAR? Say wha?
I am not a hired fucking gun. I work to help people recover their losses from injury and to prevent future injuries of the same kind. I do not help people seek revenge.
That's the truest, and saddest thing I've read in a while.
TheOtherWA |
"stupid is soo dumb, it doesn't know what smart is"
i hate not being lobotomized in this culture
If anybody here can give me a convincing -- I said, convincing -- reason to believe Hillary will tack to the left upon becoming president, I will shut up about her for a full month.
Obviously, her evil lifelong plan to become presidency will have worked-- starting with her feint support of Barry Goldwater, just to throw everyone off track, then her marriage to Bill, pushing him to against his best wishes become president so as to raise her profile, her murdering of lover Vince Foster so as to set her free to pursue her lesbian relationships, her "support" (nudge-nudge) for the Iraq war resolution, so as to make everyone think she's a hawk, her support for the anti-flag burning amendment for the same reason, etc., etc., etc.--- all a devious plan to become president!
It's pretty obvious that no one would go through all the trouble unless they wanted to create a socialist utopia.
.You can drive a Bradley through those loopholes, but there are the words.
SteveLG
Thank you. To be honest, I think that what Hillary is describing is more or less exactly what any of the three would do after taking office. She is just more up front about it than they are.
Other than the war, Hillary has a solid liberal background
Other than the war, so does Lieberman.
Ileanna Douglas could have me if she played her cards right.
Last night we caught old movie Three Women w/ Shelly Duvall and Sissy Spacek. Like a car accident - it was so weird we could not keep ourselves from watching no matter how weird it got.
Owl Reilly
To be honest, I think that what Hillary is describing is more or less exactly what any of the three would do after taking office.
I believe Edwards has pretty explicitly dropped the "combat troops" hedge, hasn't he?
I'll come back later. This hating on the Dems is just old, boring, and counterproductive
My experiences here relate to folks blabbering about scientific and technical issues about which they clearly know nothing
Um, we are talking about a candidates policies in a election. These are kinda key issues.
he's a tool to your own means of getting justice
And that's a bad thing?
Isn't a sense of justice, fairness, and equity something you'd like to see in a president?
i never understood lawyer hate.
i once worked with a lot of public defenders. thank god for them.
in other areas i've met good lawyers and bad lawyers, just the same as any profession..
Oh, sheet.
Other than the war, so does Lieberman.
SteveLG
No he doesn't.
Look, I'm not happy with what she is saying about the war, and indeed, it is just about a deal breaker, until I look at the other candidates and realize that their stance on the war is about the same. Edwards just recently has come out more strongly. Obama and Hillary have about the same take.
So Steve, on what issue?
qlª Back Home | Homepage | 01.05.08 - 2:06 pm | #
It's not a question of individual issues or even her record up till now.
My fear -- and I think it is eminently reasonable -- is that if there's a solid Democratic congressional sweep along with her presidential win she will immediately go into full triangulation mode and work against anything meangingfully liberal the congress tries to enact, to the thundering applause of the MSM for curbing "the excesses of the left wing."
i never understood lawyer hate.
My theory: Lawyers are a lot like other people, and a sleazy plaintiff looking to abuse the law to screw someone can probably find a lawyer to help him do it. When my ex BIL decided to use his nine-year-old daughter to extort money from my sister and my parents, it wasn't his divorce lawyer's idea, nor did she dissuade him from doing so.
Civil rights lawyer - good
trial lawyer - bad
So when I sued Waffle House and Huddle House for not serving customers when they weren't sufficiently white, was I a civil rights lawyer or a trial lawyer?
The right to not get killed by an egregious mistake by another person, is that not a civil right? Isn't the right to life a guaranteed right? Oh, wait. That doesn't apply to people I guess, just the government.
she will immediately go into full triangulation mode and work against anything meangingfully liberal the congress tries to enact
Stop reading my mind!
until I look at the other candidates and realize that their stance on the war is about the same
Which candidates are a reason we went to Iraq in the first place? Which candidate went so far as to sponsor the friggin Iraq War Resolution with Joe Lieberman (Only 15 senators sponsored)?
Well, since we can still comment on stupid media reporting, does Jonah Goldberg count?
Shorter Jonah: The coloreds will riot when Our TEH AWESUM Republican Machine WE HAVE TEH MATH destroys their dreams in November! Since we can't have that, let's warn the coloreds about voting for teh Obama!
Thanks Glenn Greenwald for this:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/gre...08/01/05/obama/
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