I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
A pair of one-night polls gave Barack Obama a clear edge over John McCain in their first presidential debate.
Fifty-one percent said Obama, the Democrat, did a better job in Friday night's faceoff while 38 percent preferred the Republican McCain, according to a CNN-Opinion Research Corp. survey of adults.
Obama was widely considered more intelligent, likable and in touch with peoples' problems, and by modest margins was seen as the stronger leader and more sincere. Most said it was McCain who spent more time attacking his opponent.
About six in 10 said each did a better job than expected. Seven in 10 said each seemed capable of being president.
In a CBS News poll of people not committed to a candidate, 39 percent said Obama won the debate, 24 percent said McCain and 37 percent called it a tie. Twice as many said Obama understands their needs than said so about McCain.
Seventy-eight percent said McCain is prepared to be president, about the same proportion of uncommitted voters as said so before the debate. Sixty percent said Obama is ready — a lower score than McCain, but a solid 16-percentage-point improvement from before the debate.
In another Obama advantage in the CBS poll, far more said their image of him had improved as a result of the debate than said it had worsened. More also said their view of McCain had gotten better rather than worse, but by a modest margin.
The CNN poll involved telephone interviews with 524 adults who watched the debate and had a margin of error of plus or minus 4.5 percentage points. The CBS survey involved online interviews with 483 uncommitted voters who saw the debate and had an error margin of plus or minus 4 points. It was conducted by Knowledge Networks, which initially selected the respondents by telephone.
Both polls were conducted Friday night.
Polls conducted on one night can be less reliable than surveys conducted over several nights because they only include the views of people available that particular evening.
Dang!
Thread?
Your "awwww, kitteh!" for today.
.
Polls conducted on one night can be less reliable than surveys conducted over several nights because they only include the views of people available that particular evening
Shorter: We wanted to tell you McCain won so here's the reason we can't say that.
Are you thready?
Caribou Barbie conspicuously absent from the spin room. Freeking clown.
Polls conducted on one night can be less reliable than surveys conducted over several nights because they only include the views of people available that particular evening
Shorter: We wanted to tell you McCain won so here's the reason we can't say that.
smalfish
The polls aren't reliable unless they support what THEY believe.
Jeffraham Prestonian:
LE is gorgeous.
And Curly is quite the looker, too!
BTW, if you want to harass Orange Satan, he's taking questions about his latest book over at FDL...
I have a three-part series about the statistics and especially about polls on the website where I keep stuff: echidne-of-the-snakes.com, if you are interested in the statistical issues of polls and other stuff people use.
Terry C: LE is gorgeous.
And Curly is quite the looker, too!
I luvs 'em to pieces.
.
Caribou Barbie conspicuously absent from the spin room.
Absotively posilutely. To me, that's a big, big story.
The VP candidate didn't appear on ONE live post-debate news program.
Was she locked in a car trunk, Senator?
they propably have too many volunteers already
You are Canadian, no? In this campaign there is no such thing. A volunteer is invested in the campaign and will crawl to the polls on election day. They want everyone to volunteer. The chum goes to volunteers and people off of the street are asked for a donation.
There have been some mistakes made and dave had a good idea but overall I have been impressed. Remember they are schooling an entire generation to understand organizing, not an easy task.
camelot/ms fahrenheit | 09.27.08 - 4:13 pm | #
Bail out to wall street
Iraq
We should be focused on Afghanistan ie individuals with financial problems
We are bailing out people who don't need the money and ignoring people who will add to the homeless population.
dave had a good idea
I want to make sure everyone saw that.
So... what was my "good idea," anyway?
Echidne
I would really like to understand that, and yet I don't want to be reminded of how math disabled I am.
We are bailing out people who don't need the money and ignoring people who will add to the homeless population.
Did you see that Nancy Pee has graciously decided to strip the ability of judges to rework mortgages from the bailout?
Just gave another $25 to Barak. Will probably be kicking myself with the Depression starts on Monday.
No bailout for the Wall Street pigs.
So no vote for either Obama or McCain
Loooks like Nader again for me
dave™©: So... what was my "good idea," anyway?
Weren't you the one that suggested cramming an ungreased cinder block up McCain't's ass, sideways?
.
Echidne
I would really like to understand that, and yet I don't want to be reminded of how math disabled I am.
I worked hard on those three articles to give stuff to people who don't like math. You can read quite far before you meet a number, and even then it's just one digit here and there. Give it a try in short pieces. 
The Obama/your candidate signs and how simple that is.
I was not aware or prepared how much the Patriot act affected campaign finances. My bad.
Did you see that Nancy Pee has graciously decided to strip the ability of judges to rework mortgages from the bailout?
Man. Why?
Palin ran on ethics and transparency, delivering what voters wanted to hear in a year that saw an FBI corruption investigation into ties between legislators and the oil industry, and continuing oil infrastructure problems on the North Slope, the heart of Alaska's economy.
Knowles' harping on Palin's lack of statewide political experience apparently did not stick with voters. Knowles had said that lack of experience would be a detriment when it comes to closing a deal for a North Slope natural gas pipeline.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Posted 11/7/2006 8:48 PM ET
The administration and Wall Street must not need this so all fired much if they insist that mortgages fail rather than remain viable at a lower income rate. It's telling enough to me that they don't really need this money after all.
How about a thread about bread?
Will probably be kicking myself with the Depression starts on Monday.
profligate
How about a thread about bread?
I've been missing my gramma's bread. Her farm grew the grains, she ground the flour and she baked the bread. It was so incredibly delicious stuff.
How about a thread about Jade Starr?
Or any of the Razordolls, for that matter.
The Democrats only used the "cram down" as a bargaining chip.
The Republicans should also be arrested and the Bush family (Neil and Jeb) owe us all money
But the friggin Democrats are not helping. Why are they doing anything on the word of a Shrubian
A red footed boobie? Republican birds we do not need this morning, thank you. *ptbthpth*
profligate
That money could've gone to a pitcher of 'ritas, dammit!
Bless you, Thers. My computer won't load after a certain point.
Did you see that Nancy Pee has graciously decided to strip the ability of judges to rework mortgages from the bailout?
Man. Why?
Appeasement. She want's the republicans to lover her and vote for this POS bill.
Did you see that Nancy Pee has graciously decided to strip the ability of judges to rework mortgages from the bailout?
Citation?
I'm not surprised, just horrified.
Is anyone else as pissed as I about Pelosi & her urgency to get a bailout deal done?? Wish she'd have shown this much energy opposing FISA, or on any of a number of progressive issues.
Or we could have a (very short) thread about the politicians we love.
and if she's stripped the bankruptcy stuff, she truly is a putzki.
centre-right Democratic party candidate Barack Obama did an admirable job in the debate against far right Republican John McCain.
My computer won't load after a certain point.
I've had that problem when the thread gets long...have you tried clearing the history?
I just saw Biden speaking at a campaign rally. He was talking about McSpain plan to enact the 'largest tax increase on the middle class in history' by taxing medical benefits as income. He said that a medical policy you get at work will be taxed at $12000 so if you make $50000 you'll be taxed on $62000.
Good going, Joe.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20080...l_meltdown_1146
Nancy Pee sucks.
Cram down --gone
Not one thin dime for consumers
WE need more and BETTER female politicians. Dammit.
Echidne, I am reading at a slow pace. There will not be a test at the end, will there?
Weren't you the one that suggested cramming an ungreased cinder block up McCain't's ass, sideways?
I think that was more a consensus position...
Let Pete Stark know you thik he is right to oppose the bailout...and your own members as well. It's as big a mistake as Iraq
Weren't you the one that suggested cramming an ungreased cinder block up McCain't's ass, sideways?
take the watch out first
Fuck Pelosi. Fuck. Her.
Love that SEIU ad with Donna Edwards, she is beautiful..glad to have her in Congress...
dave
You should contact the campaign, get permission, and make money.
in McCain's own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors "O.K, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."
The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a "black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate." This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the antiwar movement.
McCain refused an early release. Three former POWs said he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he "just followed orders."
'nuff said!
Thanks for the link smalfish.
It's better for consumers for the bad banks to fail (It shouldn't be but...)and be taken over and kept by the Fed.
People whose mortgages were at Indymac and in trouble -- foreclosures suspended and loans being renegotiated.
Everyone else --good bye
why aren't we taking stock in this mess so if there ever is an upside, it goes to the taxpayers rather than back to the greedheads?
why aren't the Democrats championing the people whose houses are being lost? The cram down would be one small step to righting the evils of the bankruptcy code.
Why?
The neighbor kids are coordinating a sandlot football game.
I just saw Biden speaking at a campaign rally. He was talking about McSpain plan to enact the 'largest tax increase on the middle class in history' by taxing medical benefits as income. He said that a medical policy you get at work will be taxed at $12000 so if you make $50000 you'll be taxed on $62000.
Good going, Joe.
McCain is proposing something like that, true, but it has a twist: Right now if you get health insurance from your employer the money comes out of pre-tax income. So if your policy costs a thousand a month to you, you pay it with a thousand of pre-tax income. He proposes the payment to come from after-tax income. So if the tax is, say, 30%, you now have 700 to pay for that one thousand dollar policy and will have to take money from other parts of your budget to pay for it.
But McCain also proposes a lump sum transfer to people affected by this. If the example person I'm describing happens to be the average, then that person would get 300 per month. That means he or she would have the same amount of income as before but now health insurance is more expensive than before.
What it would mean, essentially, is that people would have a strong reason to have less health insurance than now. That is a perverse direction to go, you know.
Echidne, I am reading at a slow pace. There will not be a test at the end, will there?
No test. Grading tests is the worst thing in the whole world.
dave--
I'm a BHO in sofla, and it's the same thing here - - the office itself appears to be well-funded, but there's no swag whatsoever--every day an increasingly larger number of people stop by asking for bumper stickers, lawn signs (esp. these) or any type of flair available, and there ain't none! The "official" volunteers refer the folks to some local lawyer who's SELLING the stuff. Mystifies me, ground-game & people-to-people theories n/w/s.
I'm now advocating for full financial meltdown. They don't want to help main street, then we should all burn because without help, the lower classes all burn. Fuck the upper class. Fuck them with hot rusty angle iron. Fuck them until it comes out of their nose.
Matt Damon comments on Sarah Palin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C...h?
v=C6urw_PWHYk
"a really bad Disney movie".
My father (retired Army officer, 3 tours in Vietnam, despises McCain, supports Obama), thinks somebody needs to ask why McCain, with all of his connections, did not make admiral.
What it would mean, essentially, is that people would have a strong reason to have less health insurance than now. That is a perverse direction to go, you know.
Echidne
It's all about employers getting out of the business of providing health insurance for their employees. This is exactly where employers want to be--out.
McCain is giving them that excuse they need.
God Bless America.
With a diabetic daughter, I wonder just how the free market in health care will treat me.
I already pay almost a thousand a month.
I can't wait.
No to the bailout
And no vote for any politician that supports it.
Dems are controlled by Wall Street just like the Repubs.
God damn it. Illinois is me.
A monkey claiming to be a president of some second rate nation came on my radio and asked me to give more money to a gang of criminals.
me some too - - I don't give one flying fuck if Wall Street burns, the credit markets freeze, and the Chinese Repo-men come a'callin. Let the arbirageurs & all the other suspender-wearing, yellow tie festooned bloodsuckers jump off the roofs of their luxury condos.
The "official" volunteers refer the folks to some local lawyer who's SELLING the stuff
Welcome to my world. It is the field organizer and then me. I can't wait for the deputy field organizer to get here, I need a break and some perspective. A little time and observation and questioning here and there and I will have a clearer picture.
NTodd is at Camp Obama this weekend and he will be a field organizer. He will be excellent and energetic, just in time to relieve exhausted volunteers. I am interested to hear his perspective throughout the rest of the campaign and then compare.
My father (retired Army officer, 3 tours in Vietnam, despises McCain, supports Obama), thinks somebody needs to ask why McCain, with all of his connections, did not make admiral.
War On War Off
I'm kinda wondering with all his money and all his concern for the budget, why he didn't forego his military pension.
Echidne, I see - kind of.
Similar to the current situation where I get a certain amount of pre-tax company money for health care and if I want better coverage that exceeds the before tax amount, I have to pay it 'out of pocket'.
So what he's proposing is that any health care that exceeds the pre-tax dollars be taxed as income?
What it would mean, essentially, is that people would have a strong reason to have less health insurance than now. That is a perverse direction to go, you know.
I would think it would drive more people to the HMO end of the spectrum.
No Republicans period.
As bad as the Dems are, no chance of getting four more years of this banana republic bushism
tours in Vietnam, despises McCain, supports Obama), thinks somebody needs to ask why McCain, with all of his connections, did not make admiral.
You should go and sit in an BO office and tell everyone who walks in that story.
here are free printable Obama posters in 4 color combos and 3 sizes. i printed one of each color and did an andy warhol kind of thing in my front windows which are right on the sidewalk.
http://www.google.com/imgres?img...1&ct=image&
cd=1
I'm kinda wondering with all his money and all his concern for the budget, why he didn't forego his military pension.
Clearly McCain doesn't give a fuck about the budget. Freezing all federal spending? That's insane.
Adam,
I don't know how I knew that, but I knew that.
With a diabetic daughter, I wonder just how the free market in health care will treat me.
I already pay almost a thousand a month.
I can't wait.
Sad to say that you will be worse off than now. Several reasons:
First, group policies are much cheaper to write than individual policies. Second, groups based on going to work average risks among a group which is mostly quite healthy so if the people with higher costs are scattered fairly evenly between the groups each group can afford to have some and keep the premia still affordable. In reverse, individual policies will use your past history and pre-existing conditions and will charge you more.
What it would mean, essentially, is that people would have a strong reason to have less health insurance than now. That is a perverse direction to go, you know.
This issue, as much as any other, such be the election killer for McCain.
There should be Obama ads around the clock telling people that McCain wants to tax your health benefits and eliminate whatever coverage you have.
Call Pelosi's office: 1-202-225-0100
You'll get a guy who will claim he "doesn't know what you're talking about," but then he'll give you Fucking Nancy Nice's voicemail.
Don't bother be polite in either case.
I'm kinda wondering with all his money and all his concern for the budget, why he didn't forego his military pension.
In case Cindy throws him out on his ass.
My father (retired Army officer, 3 tours in Vietnam, despises McCain, supports Obama), thinks somebody needs to ask why McCain, with all of his connections, did not make admiral.
At least some versions of his bio say that he was offered a promotion to rear admiral shortly before he left the service, in part because he could no longer pass the physical requirements for staying in a line flight squadron. There's a bit more leeway in that sort of thing for flag officers. But, he apparently was a lot more interested in getting into politics, and turned down the promotion.
bullit
I just got my pin with McCain on that says NOPE. They would be cool beside each other on some windows.
Echidne, I see - kind of.
Similar to the current situation where I get a certain amount of pre-tax company money for health care and if I want better coverage that exceeds the before tax amount, I have to pay it 'out of pocket'.
So what he's proposing is that any health care that exceeds the pre-tax dollars be taxed as income?
He's proposing that ALL your health insurance benefits be taxed as income but he's also proposing a giveaway that would on average compensate people for the amount of extra taxes they now pay.
"ask why McCain, with all of his connections, did not make admiral."
Bottom of class. Foul temperment. The guy's a classic screamer with no substance behind it at all.
And he sure did look and act like an old coot last night.
I would think it would drive more people to the HMO end of the spectrum.
virgotex
With respect, I don't think you have any idea as to the ramifications of what is being discussed.
It's all about relieving employers of the burden of supplying health insurance for their employees. Period.
Let the free market provide, since it did such a good job everywhere else.
Right.
In reverse, individual policies will use your past history and pre-existing conditions and will charge you more.
Or, as in my case, disallow you altogether.
There should be Obama ads around the clock telling people that McCain wants to tax your health benefits and eliminate whatever coverage you have.
IIRC, he tried to do that last night, but, IMO, he really failed to get that message across.
At least McCain isn't proposing health savings accounts.
tňngzhě, the bailout doesn't matter. FISA doesn't matter, telecom immunity doesn't matter, if Obama chose Fred Phelps as VP, it doesn't matter.
What matters is this:
5-2
That's the margin keeping the Constitution on life support in the Supreme Court.
Two old, tired, ill patriots are hanging on as Justices until 01/20/09.
The thought of McCain having the power to appoint two OR MORE handpicked neocons to the SCOTUS should scare you silly.
It does me.
I'm not voting for Obama. I'm voting to save the Supreme Court and to save the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
He's proposing that ALL your health insurance benefits be taxed as income but he's also proposing a giveaway that would on average compensate people for the amount of extra taxes they now pay.
Echidne
You're missing something. "They" do not pay for their insurance, or for all of it, anyway. Employers pay a lot too. This bill would make the money the employers pay for their employees health insurance after tax as well. Which means kiss your employer contribution goodbye.
He's proposing that ALL your health insurance benefits be taxed as income but he's also proposing a giveaway that would on average compensate people for the amount of extra taxes they now pay.
Thanks for taking the time to educate us. The complicated nature of his proposal is undoubtedly to obfuscate so that people won't understand what the hell he's talking about.
Obama and Biden should keep up the noise level on this one.
Nancy P sez no
No to impeachment
No to the Obey Patriots War Tax
No to helping consumers
If any of you took micro and remember income and substitution effects from that course, well, McCain's economic advisor is trying to play those games: Health insurance will be made more expensive (so that consumers FEEL the real price of their policies and not just the tax-subsidized price) but at the same time they are trying to remove the income effect by returning the lump-sum compensation to taxpayers.
Just saw a quick report on the local news about Hillary's rally in Grand Rapids.
The reason I couldn't get in? People started lining up outside the school at 11:00 AM this morning! Doors weren't opening until 2:30 PM.
It's a full house.
That is a perverse direction to go, you know.
Perverse is putting it very, very kindly.
tňngzhě, the bailout doesn't matter. FISA doesn't matter, telecom immunity doesn't matter, if Obama chose Fred Phelps as VP, it doesn't matter.
Right.
Who needs this stuff? SCOTUS will protect us!
The thousand dollar a month insurance I have right now pays for my daughter's insulin, but not for the blood sugar testing strips, or for the syringes. Anything that does not go into the body is not considered a prescription, and is therefore subject to deductible and co-pay.
Nice. Good way to make sure she dies early.
How come there's a thread that's titled Thread? Is there a philosophical connection?
It's a full house.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore | Homepage | 09.27.08 - 4:42 pm | #
And that's good news.
Which is the whole point, of course.
You're missing something. "They" do not pay for their insurance, or for all of it, anyway. Employers pay a lot too. This bill would make the money the employers pay for their employees health insurance after tax as well. Which means kiss your employer contribution goodbye.
I have to check on this. I don't remember the employer part changing in the treatment. Firms have been able to deduct health insurance expenses as costs and they still can.
But yes, the long term intention is to get firms out of the business of providing health insurance altogether and to leave it to the market which now offers individual policies.
Let's say McCain does win.
With a Democratic Congress, I don't see how his health care plan passes at all.
but he's also proposing a giveaway that would on average compensate people for the amount of extra taxes they now pay.
That won't keep up with rising medical costs.
As for McSpain's sinister health care proposal tax thing, I thought it would never be passed by a Dem controlled Congress.
And then I came to my senses.
bullit
I just got my pin with McCain on that says NOPE. They would be cool beside each other on some windows.
camelot/ms fahrenheit
good idea. these "new hope" posters print up great. they are in the style of the famous shepherd fairey "progress" poster that has found it's way to ebay.
Cubs ahead 4-0.
With a Democratic Congress, I don't see how his health care plan passes at all.
Oh come now!
/eyeroll
With a Democratic Congress, I don't see how his health care plan passes at all.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore
Oh Vicki, Vicki.
Did you read upthread where Pelosi threw consumer mortgage protection via bankruptcy judges away?
This is the Dem congress of which we speak.
and to leave it to the market which now offers individual policies.
Echidne
Which as long as you are young and healthy, no problem.
Old or sick, or old and sick, fuck off.
With a Democratic Congress, I don't see how his health care plan passes at all.
Actually, that would only be possibly true if Obama wins and kicks Reid and fucking Nancy Nice out on their asses.
With this bailout earmarked to pass, I don't see how the dems can hope to gain seats or even retain the one's that they have.
but he's also proposing a giveaway that would on average compensate people for the amount of extra taxes they now pay.
That won't keep up with rising medical costs.
Of course not. Also, once you separate the policy into these two parts you can later can the income transfer part and keep the higher price part.
And the income transfer is only an average. People who have more expensive policies right now (including people who are sicker or who have sicker relatives) won't get as much as they are losing.
Obama is owned by Wall Street just like McCain
No to both of them.
It was Clinton that signed the repeal of Glass-Steagal which is the real cause of this economic mess.
It is not mortgages that is the problem
It is Wall Street firms with their leveraged MBS and credit default swaps.
smalfish, what do you honestly think would happen to ROE v WADE with McCain justices?
Gay rights, minority rights, women's rights, YOUR rights?
Torture? SURE! Whatever you want, Mr. President!
Right now, the only thing that matters in the long run is that 5-2 majority.
And if you don't understand that, then go vote for Nader and then go fuck yourself, long hard and mean. Because that's what a McCain-packed SCOTUS will do to you and the rest of the citizenry for the next 20 years.
From: Verses to Chekhia, l938
Marina Tsvetayeva
I decline to go on living
in the marketplace of wolves.
I won't howl,
among the sharks of the field.
I won't swim beneath
the waves of squirming backs.
I have no need of holes for hearing
or seeing eyes.
To your crazed world there's
only one answer: No!
http://www.thedrunkenboat.com/ma...com/
marina.html
This is the Dem congress of which we speak.
Yeah, the gave away Social Security, didn't they?
Did you read upthread where Pelosi threw consumer mortgage protection via bankruptcy judges away?
No, I missed that.
Don't tell Gomez.
It's a full house.
Cool!
gorgeous weekend here
17 y/o bday party
It was Clinton that signed the repeal of Glass-Steagal which is the real cause of this economic mess.
True, but you want to tell the rest of the story?
Gorgeous weekend here, too.
I'm going down to the food festival, I think.
These are, as I began, cumbersome ways to kill a man.
Simpler, direct, and much more neat is to see
that he is living somewhere in the middle
of the twentieth century, and leave him there.
If any of you took micro and remember income and substitution effects from that course, well, McCain's economic advisor is trying to play those games: Health insurance will be made more expensive (so that consumers FEEL the real price of their policies and not just the tax-subsidized price) but at the same time they are trying to remove the income effect by returning the lump-sum compensation to taxpayers.
And, as with most Republican proposals, its effects will be felt more substantially by the middle class than by the wealthy, because the taxed employer benefits represent a much smaller percentage of total income for the well-to-do, and, the wealthier wage earners will be able to afford plans which poorer wage earners will not. I would suspect that for people making the median income, adding $10-12K to their adjusted gross will cause that money to be taxed in a higher bracket, more than offsetting the tax credits.
As you say, the plan will have the effect of driving most people into cheaper, less comprehensive plans. McCain claims this will lower health care costs, but, more likely, it will simply improve the profits of the insurers--probably the ultimate and hidden aim of such a plan.
Bleh. I have a snotty cold.
You guys have seen the anti-Obama Kentucky voters?
And if you don't understand that, then go vote for Nader and then go fuck yourself, long hard and mean. Because that's what a McCain-packed SCOTUS will do to you and the rest of the citizenry for the next 20 years.
All that shit is already happening. And who said I was voting for Nader? Who thinks that even if Obama wins, he will be allowed to install judges to our liking anyway? I have severe reservations.
True, but you want to tell the rest of the story?
I can tell you of about ten other Republican things that Clinton signed.
Want the list.
I'm voting to save the Supreme Court and to save the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
WORD!
Yeah, the gave away Social Security, didn't they?
Richard
That's an interesting point, and one that's been brought up before. Probably a book could be written about it.
But leaving aside for the moment that if "saving" SS is the best this Congress can do, we are certainly damning them with faint praise, my distinct impression was that market conditions at the time were not favorable for the full-court press on the issue that Bush could have imposed, and hence he let it lie.
That's my memory, anyway.
With a Democratic Congress, I don't see how his health care plan passes at all.
I heard Barney Frank explaining what he thought was the job of the Congress: to legislate. To do something. To make legislation they don't really like less horrible then pass it. It seems to me that's gotten them into a lot of trouble. Republicans just say no. Not gonna do it. Not gonna try to pass something unless we love it. Then they don't have to defend something that blows up in their face like AUMF or Gramm Leach Bliley.
As you say, the plan will have the effect of driving most people into cheaper, less comprehensive plans. McCain claims this will lower health care costs, but, more likely, it will simply improve the profits of the insurers--probably the ultimate and hidden aim of such a plan.
It's a horrible and cruel policy, based on the inane assumption that your average patient can shop around knowingly for the best policies, best hospitals, best doctors, can understand all the different types of risk, can select between various coinsurance and deductible features and so on.
But yes, it might lower health care costs in a disgusting manner, by making many people unable to afford any health care at all.
17 y/o bday party
ErinPDX |
My daughters birthdays...today is the youngests and the 30th is the oldests.
Martin Luther King day is a government holiday.
Does anyone have a link to Pelosi's capitulation?
So it really now seems to me, like many predicted, that this was Nixon-Kennedy all over again. A draw or at best a narrow victory for one side on points, but an Obama rout on image. Oddly enough, my wife actually listened on the radio while driving home from Tahoe, and thought McCain had won.
I can tell you of about ten other Republican things that Clinton signed.
Change the subject?
heh. Phil Gramm? Inserting his bill into a 'must pass' spending bill?
How many of the WS bankers that destroyed their banks are republics?
[hint: Paulson was one of them.]
Via Mark Evanier, some interesting background on Johnny Mav's cancelling from Letterman:
...Letterman tapes at 4:30 in the afternoon. The cancellation from McCain came between 3:00 and 3:30, which is very tight. Over on a Dave newsgroup, Don Giller (probably the world's foremost authority on Letterman) reports that at the time, he was in Rupert's Deli, the little sandwich shop around the corner from Dave's studio that figures into so many remotes. According to Don, "[Rupert] told me that secret service had instructed him to close his shop early, so he sent his workers home. Just minutes before, he had just learned that McCain had cancelled, so he had lost a lot of business"...
Incidentally, this whole episode points up one of the weaknesses I think Letterman has had in his show for some time. He's been taping his Friday episodes on Mondays so he can't address current events on them. A lot of folks probably tuned in last night to hear him continue his McCain bashing...but not a word, of course, was said. I'm hearing that this is not going to happen next week; that Dave is going to back to taping Friday's show on Friday, at least for a while.
Does anyone have a link to Pelosi's capitulation?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/
20080...l_meltdown_1146
Irish stout beef pie is in the oven, the rain's tapering off, G/Son's enjoying his new Halloween decoration, Miss Thing is full and contented and curled up on the warm yoga blankets in the ritual room. The Goddess is immanent, and all's right with the world.
Oddly enough, my wife actually listened on the radio while driving home from Tahoe, and thought McCain had won.
I wrote on my blog the reasons why I felt that way, too. Now I'm all confused about how we measure winning in the debates.
Does anyone have a link to Pelosi's capitulation?
From above...
or however I should have spelled those.
Bullit
They printed out beautifully. The kids want some for their lockers, since the headmistress of their school was on one of their call sheets, they now feel bold and brave in their Catholic school. heehee
As you say, the plan will have the effect of driving most people into cheaper, less comprehensive plans.
If you have any kind of illness or chronic condition, set your mind at rest. There is NO SUCH THING as a cheaper less comprehensive plan.
The insurance companies don't want you. Period.
Health insurance only for the healthy seems to me to miss the point, but if we're not already there, we certainly are close.
Oddly enough, my wife actually listened on the radio while driving home from Tahoe, and thought McCain had won.
I watched on line and agreed w your wife, but I'm happy that we were wrong.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
I remember what rain felt like... long ago. (Southern California and in the 80s.)
With respect, I don't think you have any idea as to the ramifications of what is being discussed.
with respect, you pontificating about what I have an idea of, based on one comment, is horseshit, and obviously you did it to make yourself feel superior or sound smarter or some other reason that has nothing to do with the discussion.
Like I said, horseshit. With all due respect.
As Echidne says, we are talking about long term effects as well as short term effects.
Effects, not intent. Effects and intent are often two different things, last I checked.
Why in the world is anyone bothering to argue with the Nader troll? It's not like he's going to change his mind, after all. And most likely he's too young to vote, anyway.
Status report on the golden parachuet deal for Friends of Hanky Panky and Georgie
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar...&sn=001&
sc=1000
Lord, it's like trying to explain string theory to a cockroach.
FISA, telecom immunity, the bailout, etc, ALL OF THEM can be amended or abolished by Congress and/or SCOTUS... IF we have Justices that are not handpicked by the neocons for McCain to appoint. Even with a Democrat controlled House and Senate, there will be Justices who will be appointed and confirmed who will gladly shred the rest of the Constitution, and will do so for the next 20 or so years.
I don't give a fuck if Obama appoints Justices that don't meet your high standards of ideological purity. They will, by the fact that they are NOT appointed by McCain and his handlers, be infinitely superior to anyone McCain appoints.
I don't care about FISA or any of that other transiant crap.
I care about the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
smalfish and dave™© Thanks.
Now I'm all confused about how we measure winning in the debates.
A healthy dose of subjectivity goes into the reckoning.
The insurance companies don't want you. Period.
I can only apply for state run health insurance. Which, of course I cannot afford. I will die younger than I probably should.
Lord, it's like trying to explain string theory to a cockroach.
Damn, settle down. We know how important the Supreme Court is.
Effects, not intent. Effects and intent are often two different things, last I checked.
virgotex
OK, I'll say what I wanted to say in the first place: your comment about people moving to HMO's was uniformed and ridiculous. And indicated a real lack of understanding of the issue.
Parse that however you want.
Stand O for Chris Tucker Defender of the Constitution
Now I'm all confused about how we measure winning in the debates.
Well, it hasn't really changed since 1960...
Within the bailout article:
Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., told Democrats at a closed-door meeting Friday evening the provision would be a deal-breaker for Republicans who she has said must deliver substantial votes for the rescue plan. That's according to several lawmakers who attended the session.
Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama had said earlier that the measure didn't belong in the bailout.
So maybe they're going to address it after they get the Republicans on board? Stick it in the next 350 billion or something?
Bill not passed
CSpan live
It's a horrible and cruel policy, based on the inane assumption that your average patient can shop around knowingly for the best policies, best hospitals, best doctors, can understand all the different types of risk, can select between various coinsurance and deductible features and so on.
And your average patient might be able to manage that. But the people most in need of healthcare coverage are often not able to do that and won't have access to advocacy.
ellroon, Obama/Biden 08 |
Right..the check is in the mail
If you have any kind of illness or chronic condition, set your mind at rest. There is NO SUCH THING as a cheaper less comprehensive plan.
The insurance companies don't want you. Period.
Oh, yes, not arguing that a bit. If you're thrown into a huge pool of people seeking individual policies, you lose most of the negotiating power of a group. That's just one more insidious part of the Republican proposal.
BTW, I would like the writers for Boston Legal to work with Obama in his next debate.
Hecate, "Irish stout beef pie"?
Sounds delightful! Aside from beef and stout, what else is in it?
I'm all confused about how we measure winning in the debates.
Echidne
Winning the debate = you are more likely to get elected after the debate than you were before it.
Lord, it's like trying to explain string theory to a cockroach.
Piss off. If you think the republicans are going to allow any ole judge, you're sadly mistaken. They may not even vote for a judge who supports Roe v Wade next time. They WILL use the filibuster. Get your head on strait.
Echidne,
I'm wondering to what extent the generation known as the Millenials calculate things differently and were reflected more this time than ever before. Borg recently had an interesting speaker, whose name I sadly (being an aging Boomer) don't remember, but he talked about how differently the different generations often view the same event. Said Millenials demand inclusion, which could explain why McCain who wouldn't even look at Obama and who beat him up scored poorly while Obama did well saying over and over that "John's right."
Son told me that he and DiL thought McCain was more nasty than successful.
Or, I could just be all wrong. In any event, I'm glad Obama won in most people's eyes. G/Son got to stay up and watch and he calls him "Prwezdident Obama."
So mote it be.
So maybe they're going to address it after they get the Republicans on board? Stick it in the next 350 billion or something?
The only "sticking" going on is going to be more Republican cock in Harry and Nancy's mouth.
GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY PARTY!
Oh, yes, not arguing that a bit. If you're thrown into a huge pool of people seeking individual policies, you lose most of the negotiating power of a group. That's just one more insidious part of the Republican proposal.
montag
Actually, it's worse than that. We are moving to a risk insurance model for health insurance. So the pool you will be in will be shared by people like you. You will not get the advantage of sharing insurance with healthy people.
You might as well just die.
Right..the check is in the mail
AUMF II |
*sigh*... I was just hoping...
repuke bimbo on Shuster: With McStain you have a lot of experience.
Lots of experience with bad results and no learning lessons from that experience.
Vote McStain--Experience without Wisdom.
camelot how old are your girls?
Son told me that he and DiL thought McCain was more nasty than successful.
His smug, self satisfied smirk did him in. That did not come across on the radio.
Hecate, "Irish stout beef pie"?
Sounds delightful! Aside from beef and stout, what else is in it?
Mushrooms, onions, carrots, small red potatoes, fresh thyme. Make a crust w stilton cheese crumbled up and rolled in.
It's true Autumn fare.
camelot how old are your girls?
14 today and in three days 16.
NYT:
Marpessa Dawn, who played the beautiful, melancholic and doomed Eurydice in the classic 1959 Brazilian movie “Black Orpheus,” died on Aug. 25 at her home in Paris. She was 74.
Ms. Dawn’s death followed by 41 days that of her “Black Orpheus” co-star, Bruno Melo, who played the title role.
Sad and weird.
OK, I'll say what I wanted to say in the first place: your comment about people moving to HMO's was uniformed and ridiculous. And indicated a real lack of understanding of the issue.
and your need to pick off a target, and make belittling remarks about their comprehension, what does that indicate? Why do you even care about what I think, know or comprehend?
You don't, you're just preening, so you sound more intelligent and discerning.
Pick someone else to use.
The kids want some for their lockers.
wonderful. glad they like them. the blue is my fav, but the teal is cool. they all are worthy of framing.
Maybe people just hate McCain, no matter what he says. Therefore, he loses the debate.
Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama had said earlier that the measure didn't belong in the bailout.
I'd been thinking that it belongs in a separate bill.
I just felt an explosion like shock through the ground.?!
Hecate, Oh, my! That sounds indescribably tasty! When I have some money next month, I'd like to try making that.
I just felt an explosion like shock through the ground.?!
Pre-depression explosions?
catalexis: I just felt an explosion like shock through the ground.?!
I feel that allatime. Then again, I live three blocks from a limestone quarry.
.
So maybe they're going to address it after they get the Republicans on board? Stick it in the next 350 billion or something?
ellroon, Obama/Biden 08
Have you been name stolen?? Or is this some purty darn good snark?
I'm not so sure personally that giving bankruptcy judges the authority to arbitrarily force terms on lending institutions is such a good idea. I think a better idea would be for the judges to be able to order the expungement of of the bankruptcy and foreclosures from the debtor's credit records, so that they would then have the opportunity to buy another house, or even the same one, at a better price. I also think that the gummint should buy securities at a discount that are backed by precarious but not defaulting mortgages, re-negotiate the terms, and then sell the mortgages back to other banks.
Sad and weird.
Wonderful film. One of my favorites. I wouldn't feel badly about dying if I'd something like that to my credit. Hope both Dawn and Melo felt that way, too.
I'd been thinking that it belongs in a separate bill.
Richard | 09.27.08 - 5:06 pm | #
In a perfect world but it's not and this is a chance to get. Later the goopers aren't going to be trading favors
The Democrats used people houses as a bargaining chip instead of doing something to guarantee a chance to fix problem mortgages while in bankruptcy not a choice ones makes casually. Politican ain't beanbag/
14 today and in three days 16.
Two Libras! I bet they get along.
Nobody's talking about Paul Newman kicking the bucket?
I thnik that anything the Republicans, Blue Dogs & Pelosi want out is a good idea, sight unseen!
Nobody's talking about Paul Newman kicking the bucket?
smalfish | 09.27.08 - 5:09 pm | #
earlier, a great deal.
gee, i came here to talk about thread, and you guys are all discussing health insurance and microeconomics
(sulk)
.
Have you been name stolen?? Or is this some purty darn good snark?
mofo
Nah, just me regressing to my optimistic self. Let me collect myself here...
Fuck Bush.
Cram down is an accepted measure at this time. It works and what you are proposing is navel gazing bullshit
Hecate, Oh, my! That sounds indescribably tasty! When I have some money next month, I'd like to try making that.
It's v good and if you are on a budget you could use ground beef instead of stewing beef. And I forgot to mention a bit of garlic and tomato paste. It sticks to your ribs.
.In a perfect world but it's not and this is a chance to get. Later the goopers aren't going to be trading favors
In an Obama administration with a 58-42 senate and a solid house majority, those goopers won't matter anymore.
In an Obama administration with a 58-42 senate and a solid house majority, those goopers won't matter anymore.
I SO disagree.
your comment about people moving to HMO's was uniformed and ridiculous.
Scanty Nurses uniform I bet.
Talking about 'pools' of people, or pools of debt is one of the things that got us in this financial crisis in the first place.
Two Libras! I bet they get along.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
Were you serious, or snarky?
They do get along pretty well but are VERY different.
Nobody's talking about Paul Newman kicking the bucket?
In the 1950s, he was Adonis personified. He really was. And he married a lovely, intelligent woman and stayed w her his whole life which is amazing in hollywood.
May the Goddess guard him. May he find his way to the Summerlands. May his friends and family know peace.
Hell I'm down here talking about skimpy nurses uniforms.
This bill is now and the Obama administration is far away for someone trying to modify their loan
There is no reason not to include the measure now except for the spinless work of Nancy P and Steny Ho
They can fix under the Obama admin to any airy fairy thing you new Dem majority wants
I SO disagree.
smalfish
The remaining 42 are not going to be the monolith they were under Little Boots.
Presidential elections are, unfortunately, popularity contests to a large degree.
Being mean and nasty is not how you win one of those.
A lot of people were disappointed that Obama didn't really try to beat up on McCain in the debate. From the post debate reaction, it seems that McCain is suffering the negative consequences from that sort of aggressive approach.
Obama did the right thing. He came across as level headed and likable. That was more important than scoring debating points from a crotchity, ill mannered, angry old man.
Two Libras! I bet they get along.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
I remain confused as to how me, a Leo, and M, an Aries, get along as well as we do.
May the Goddess guard him. May he find his way to the Summerlands. May his friends and family know peace.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator | 09.27.08 - 5:12 pm | #
Thank you for expressing that.
philly boy todd rundgren's "something/anything" is spinning on the virtual turntable. and it's all
Were you serious, or snarky?
They do get along pretty well but are VERY different.
Serious. Libras love to get along. If their moons and ascendent signs are different that would explain why they're v different but still, the Libra Sun means they'll work to get along.
Weird, but I thought certain people would never die - Paul Newman was one.
.
The remaining 42 are not going to be the monolith they were under Little Boots.
blerb
No, but they have a talent for being feisty when in opposition mode, which is where they'll be again.
And he married a lovely, intelligent woman and stayed w her his whole life which is amazing in hollywood.
He was married twice.
dave™©'s fault. lol
The very last thing Obama wants to be is an angry black man. There will be time eough for that after he's elected. He needs to Ronald Cosby, of which he was a fairly good approximation.
The remaining 42 are not going to be the monolith they were under Little Boots.
The remaining goopers will be the most lethal. We're talking about the scummiest most vile creatures on earth here. They'll pull out all the stops to halt Obama's agenda.
Obama did the right thing. He came across as level headed and likable. That was more important than scoring debating points from a crotchity, ill mannered, angry old man.
As I said on an earlier thread, explains why he's the candidate and I comment on blogs.
I hope he schools McCain a bit in the domestic affairs debate.
Bust a move!
.
tpm links to an excellent debate analysis by fallows, and it follows many of the topics we discussed last night and this morning:
http://
jamesfallows.theatlantic....and_tactics.php
Barring a truly disastrous performance, each side's partisans will think their candidate did well, and will be reinforced in the reasons for supporting the person they already like. Thus John McCain supporters will think he sounded confident and masterful; Obama supporters will think he kept presenting the big-picture perspective on national security and the economy. Which means therefore:
The audience that matters is people who start out undecided or uncertain -- and finally are looking for emotional reassurance about who they can imagine as president for the next four years. In general, such viewers are only now starting to pay serious attention to the campaign -- in contrast to people already committed to helping (or stopping) one of the candidates. That is why the first debate is a unique "re-launch" opportunity for the candidates to present themselves to people who realize it's time to make up their minds.
...snip..
But Obama either figured out, or instinctively understood, that the real battle was to make himself seem comfortable, reasonable, responsible, well-versed, and in all ways "safe" and non-outsiderish to the audience just making up its mind about him. (And yes, of course, his being a young black man challenging an older white man complicated everything he did and said, which is why his most wittily aggressive debate performance was against another black man, Alan Keyes, in his 2004 Senate race.) The evidence of the polls suggests that he achieved exactly this strategic goal. He was the more "likeable," the more knowledgeable, the more temperate, etc. Update: though he doesn't have to say "John is right..." ever again during this campaign."
read the whole thing...
Paul Newman claimed he made more money on his salad dressings than his movies! I guess that's OK!
.
Richard,
I agree. I have gently suggested that yelling fuck you is not always the best approach.
Lucky for Obama, in any case, McCain was bad in many different ways.
.The remaining goopers will be the most lethal.
Many of them. But two of them will be Snowe and Collins. In fact, I wonder if one of them might not even be inclined to turn coat.
If BHO wins,even w/ a 60 or close-to-60 Senate, there'll be a SCLM-aided (whether by action or inaction) push for impeachment w/in 10 months. Grounds--They don't need no stinkin' grounds, unlike Dems, who ignore valid reason after reasonto impeach.
Damn,I'm getting super-negative again--better take a football break.
yelling fuck you is not always the best approach.
AWWWWWWW
*sulks
Death is nothing at all. I have only slipped away into the next room.
I am I, and you are you, whatever we were to each other, that we still are. Call me by my
old familiar name, speak to me in the easy way you used to. Put no difference
into your tone, wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow. Laugh as we always
laughed at the little jokes we enjoyed together. Play, smile, think of me, and pray for
me. Let my name be the household name it always was. Let it be spoken without the
shadow of a ghost in it. Life means all that it ever meant. It is the same as it ever was.
Why should I be out of your mind because I am out of your sight? All is well,
nothing is lost, one brief moment and all will be as it was before.
The audience that matters is people who start out undecided or uncertain -- and finally are looking for emotional reassurance about who they can imagine as president for the next four years. In general,
What's that movie where all likely voters are measured in one man, and he alone gets to vote for the next president/leader?
Weird, but I thought certain people would never die - Paul Newman was one.
For me, it was Kate Hepburn. I knew she'd die before I did, but I always was glad when the year ended and she was still here. When she did die, I was v sad. She was just a presence and she, like Newman, paid, as someone once said, the world the compliment of being reluctant to leave. I guess that for me, now, it's folks like Starhawk and Robin Morgan and Gloria Steinham, who I hope keep making it from year to year because when they're gone I'm standing on the edge w/ no one between me and what Mary Oliver called that cottage of darkness.
It would be very helpful if you, (rors and Hecate) would tell me, a Taurus, who to stay away from, and who I would get along with.
jim lehrer was a butthole with his "can you talk to one another" like he was doing an intervention or marriage councelling. but at least he succeeded in pointing out mccain's inability to look at obama, something tweety then ran with...hard.
nothing is lost, one brief moment and all will be as it was before.
Shared Humanity
Thanks. That is beautiful.
nothing is lost, one brief moment and all will be as it was before.
Shared Humanity |
My Dad died 10 years ago. Its hard for me to think about him for more than 20-30 seconds at a time???
.
In an Obama administration with a 58-42 senate and a solid house majority, those goopers won't matter anymore
i take a pessimistic attitude about what can be expected even with number like this. i vote democratic because i want a government that stops breaking things, and even maybe acts like a sentient being.
the democratic party has good morals when they make speeches at the conventions, but even with a majority, it takes a miracle for them to get their act together and really further a real human oriented agenda
and those little trolls are still there, hiding in the corners and waiting to pounce on any screw ups and slobber all over them
.
I thought Lehrer was alright. He seemed to mostly stay out of the way. He only had one or two really stupid questions.
It would be very helpful if you, (rors and Hecate) would tell me, a Taurus, who to stay away from, and who I would get along with.
camelot/ms fahrenheit | 09.27.08 - 5:21 pm | #
I probably should stay away from all people, so I'm not one to give advice, really.
My Dad died 10 years ago. Its hard for me to think about him for more than 20-30 seconds at a time???
.
It's just me again |
Both my mom and dad are gone. I still tell them I love them and wish I could talk to them.
Um, if you repeal the cap gains tax won't you encourage people to pull money out of the market?
If Obama is elected, which I think is increasingly likely, and if Team Blue gets 57 or 58 Senators, which seems also within the realm of the possible, I think the hounds of hell will be on him from day one.
All that said, if he begins to repair the immense damage done to our country and our citizens, a la FDR, it won't matter what song the baying hounds of the Far Right howl. No one will pay any attention.
I probably should stay away from all people, so I'm not one to give advice, really.
rorschach
I can still give you cyberhugs whether you want them or not.
{{{{{HUG}}}}}}
Death is nothing at all. I have only slipped away into the next room.
If I believed that there were a "next room," that might be convincing.
For me, it was Kate Hepburn.
Last week the channels were full of Romy Schneider films, commemorating her would-be 70th birthday.
me, a Taurus
Do you know your moon and ascendent signs?
This was read at my sister-in-laws funeral several years ago. I have kept it ever since. She was an amazing woman who was the glue that bound our large families together.
My brother was completely lost for the first year but is now doing well.
I can still give you cyberhugs whether you want them or not.
{{{{{HUG}}}}}}
ellroon, Obama/Biden 08 | Homepage | 09.27.08 - 5:24 pm | #
I need an adult! I need an adult!
Camelot, I am also one, so we'll get along just fine.
Kare Hepburn and Paul Newman had a good run. I have been shocked when people like Gleen Gould and Sv Richter have died. But there is Gerald Manley Hopkins:
Márgarét, áre you grieving
Over Goldengrove unleaving?
Leáves líke the things of man, you
With your fresh thoughts care for, can you?
Ah! ás the heart grows older
It will come to such sights colder
By and by, nor spare a sigh
Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie;
And yet you will weep and know why.
Now no matter, child, the name:
Sórrow's spríngs áre the same.
Nor mouth had, no nor mind, expressed
What heart heard of, ghost guessed:
It is the blight man was born for,
It is Margaret you mourn for.
Both my mom and dad are gone. I still tell them I love them and wish I could talk to them.
ellroon, Obama/Biden 08 |
Well the good news is my 88 year old Mom has a new knee and wants to go to Austria, Switzerland and Italy next summer. If my sisters don't take her I will, damn it!
.
I hope he schools McCain a bit in the domestic affairs debate.
I hope he gets McCain to hang himself with his health care "reform" proposals.
"John, tell us about your plan to tax health care benefits and use Phil Gramm's bank deregulation legislation as a model for what you want to do with the health insurance industry."
Do you know your moon and ascendent signs?
Um, no. I did try one night with someone help, but alas, no.
I'll answer your questions though.
Well the good news is my 88 year old Mom has a new knee and wants to go to Austria, Switzerland and Italy next summer. If my sisters don't take her I will, damn it!
.
It's just me again
You come from good stock!
Lehrer was godsend compared to Charlie Taxcut and his sidekick George Flagpins
sheets
Last week the channels were full of Romy Schneider films, commemorating her would-be 70th birthday.
Marcellina |
btw A return to Innsbruck is on my Mom's list of must see again places!
If bullit is still here, my daughter found a design with
a picture of Bush-DOPE, a picture of the pope-POPE, a picture of McCain-NOPE, and a picture of Obama-HOPE.
Uh, hey, it's me again. Been quite a long while. Reality 1.0 getting in the way of online.
So, catch me up - are we in Great Depression II?
-
He was married twice.
zee
True, but he was married to Joanne Woodward for 50 years!
But there is Gerald Manley Hopkins:
If I could only have one poem, ever, it would be:
God’s Grandeur
THE WORLD is charged with the grandeur of God.
It will flame out, like shining from shook foil;
It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil
Crushed. Why do men then now not reck his rod?
Generations have trod, have trod, have trod;
And all is seared with trade; bleared, smeared with toil;
And wears man’s smudge and shares man’s smell: the soil
Is bare now, nor can foot feel, being shod.
And for all this, nature is never spent;
There lives the dearest freshness deep down things;
And though the last lights off the black West went
Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs—
Because the Holy Ghost over the bent
World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.
are we in Great Depression II?
Yes, IMHO, but Son spent all morning telling me that I'm wrong. So I may have converted assets to liquid needlessly, giving up some interest and may have turned assets into canned good and powdered milk that we'll turn out using next year over a good laugh. Those are risks I'm willing to take.
He was married twice.
zee
So are a lot of people.
It must have been "torture" for John McCain to be on the same stage standing beside Barack Obama, semi-interacting in a
"face-to-face" pseudo-debate (McCain never looked at the "uppity Negro" next to him nor spoke to him directly. This was done intentionally).
This has to have been the "Massah" strategy of the Republican racists running John McCain's campaign...with John McCain playing the "Massah" to Barack Obama's "uppity Negro" role...which is how the racist Republicans were trying to portray the debate...to their racist base.
This also explains the McCain campaign advertisement that followed, showing the "uppity Negro" Barack Obama agreeing with certain of "Massah" John McCain's positions, implying that "uppity Negro" Obama is acknowledging the superiority of "Massah" McCain...all meant to appeal to the lizard brain of racist Republican voters.
All subtle. All intentional. All part of the racist Republican strategy to use the "race card" to try to win in November.
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