I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
aha
Ntodd has jelly on his knees.
That "Gelb" means "yellow" is probably not of importance.
Three
Leslie Gelb is the Barry Manilow of pundits.
now will echidne call sheets?
I'm actually not trying to pick on Gelb who, in the pantheon of Very Serious People of Washington, actually seems to be generally a lot more intelligent and smart than most.
You could pick on me and give me lots of clicks and advertising revenue.
Long after going around the country selling this disastrous war to "jelly-kneed" business audiences he's palling around with the also very serious Joe Biden peddling even grander and more exciting ideas for Iraq, a three state solution which Gelb has been pushing as far back as November 2003.
I like his pall.
now will echidne call sheets?
sheets! 
I'll pick on him. I want to pick on the whole lot of them.
Bottom line is they think they know better than the rest of us.
I'm planning an article on fear as the fuel of the neocon "revolution", by the way. It's fun research.
War is not a video game. It's the fact that serious people simply seem not to know that that scares me the most.
Echidne,
Great atricle on cleavage.
I'm planning an article on fear as the fuel of the neocon "revolution", by the way. It's fun research.
Hobbes is a laugh a minute.
They want a smoking gun. It doesn't make a difference when I point out that we have a smoking fores
Way to mix metaphors
Thanks, Hecate
Hobbes is a laugh a minute.
Yes, sadly.
Hey! Atrios corrected his grammar! Fucking delete my account!
War is not a video game.
these days, war IS a video game. increasingly so every day. hell, the army even uses video games to recruit these days.
what's not a video game is getting on the ground between people who hate your fucking guts, and hate each other.
but that's not war, either.
I'm actually not trying to pick on Gelb who, in the pantheon of Very Serious People of Washington, actually seems to be generally a lot more intelligent and smart than most.
It just seems that way.
From below:
And Bonds never pitched a game in his life.
Ruth would have likely made the Hall on his pitching arm alone.
Why is it that men who have Leslie as a first name are centrists?
Leslie Gelb wrote "The Irony of Vietnam: The System Worked" (1980).
I don't think he knows what irony means.
Leslie Gelb is the Barry Manilow of pundits.
spinoza-non ridere, non lugare | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:11 pm |
Manilow's donated money to Ron Paul:
CAUSE CÉLČBRE: Celebrities bet on the underdogs
Barry Manilow gave to Ron Paul. Mark Ruffalo supports Mike Gravel. It's a way of sending a message.
By Tina Daunt, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 27, 2007
http://www.latimes.com/
entertain...1,6068762.story
Does Gelb have any children or grandchildren of military age?
BTW, I don't believe you can play in over 2300 consecutive games without taking some performance-enhancing substance. Like steroids or greenies.
Centrist = wrongest.
CNN: Dog fighting worse than raping a woman.
Why is it that men who have Leslie as a first name are centrists?
Ralphie-Myrmidon
Blitzer, as one of the administration's most reliable fluffers, can hardly be described as a centrist.
If Gelb actually said there was a "smoking forest" of evidence of WMDs in Iraq, how he be considered anything but an epsilon minus semi-moron ?
BTW, I don't believe you can play in over 2300 consecutive games without taking some performance-enhancing substance. Like steroids or greenies.
NTodd behind the tastee freeze?
1920-1923 - Iraq is created by the British Protectorate, gathering together the three political elements of ancient Mesopotamia.... The chief British advisors, Ambassador Sir Percy Z. Cox and Oriental Secretary, Miss Gertrude Bell of the India Office were successful in the creation of the new country as a monarchy, led by the Emir Hussein of Mecca's son, Faisal.
.
If ytou're the head of the CFR, that's Rockerfeller money.
Just because Biden proposes something doesn't mean it's stupid. Peter Galbraith has been against the war from the beginning, and pushing for a three state solution from early '04.
Now, insisting on sticking around until three stable states are in place - when we haven't been able to create even one stable state in four years - that would be stupid. I hope Gelb is just talking about doing what we can, on our way out the door, to bolster the stability of whatever partition might emerge once we're gone.
Does Gelb have any children or grandchildren of military age?
Dosen't matter they would be yellow too..
Great article on cleavage.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:15 pm | #
Photo essay ?
NTodd behind the tastee freeze?
spinoza-non ridere, non lugare
Someone waved a red Ripken flag in front of me.
We don't want a smoking forest to become an Al Gore movie.
BTW, I don't believe you can play in over 2300 consecutive games without taking some performance-enhancing substance. Like steroids or greenies.
Oh I do. What was Lou Gehrig injecting?
Oh I do. What was Lou Gehrig injecting?
MP
THAT was an iron man. Not a butt-kissing pretender like Ripken.
Jeebus A
what would we now be expected to do come September
toss Petraeus out the window - OK
toss the idea of war on terror specific to Iraq? - OK
suspend all diplomatic endeavor since we really haven't gone there = not ok
OK
WTF should we do if not to suspend aggression to get the troops and civilians out ASAP starting this September AND work on a diplomatic solution.
The House resolution averring no permanent base in Iraq is a start.
The division of sectarian control with a central, less powerful govt for Iraq has merit in my book and that is what Biden et al have been pushing for for years. Way before IDG took it as one of its multiple quests.
Oh I do. What was Lou Gehrig injecting?
NTodd has a hot beef Lou Gherig malt injection for you for fiddy cents.
led by the Emir Hussein of Mecca's son, Faisal.
El a-Rence?
ever since Vietnam, the hawks have almost always been right on major questions of national security.
More JokeLine.
What an amazing idiot.
NTodd has a hot beef Lou Gherig malt injection for you for fiddy cents.
spinoza-non ridere, non lugare
If not a namestealer, not one of your best.
Hey, Ntodd, get those cheap Cleveland bastards to sign their fucking QB.
We need a tackling dummy.
Gelb's vast military knowledge comes from having worked at the Pentagon for the final year of the Johnson Administration.
Not exactly a glowing recommendation.
What an amazing idiot.
Hecate,
*
he should be shunned
I hope Gelb is just talking about doing what we can, on our way out the door, to bolster the stability of whatever partition might emerge once we're gone.
You are completely mad. Get help.
ever since Vietnam, the hawks have almost always been right on major questions of national security.
Such as?
Hey, Ntodd, get those cheap Cleveland bastards to sign their fucking QB.
Can't. They pulled a Pelosi and now block all communications from me.
I don't know why people don't listen to my clever notes with letter cut out from newspapers.
Isn't Gelb when you get money for Hannukah.
Hey! Atrios corrected his grammar! Fucking delete my account!
spinoza
*
he is quite the multi-tasker
Just because Biden proposes something doesn't mean it's stupid.
No, but it's a safe bet if you've been fucking paying attention.
ever since Vietnam, the hawks have almost always been right on major questions of national security.
See, it's ok for Pakistan and South Africa and Israel to have nuclear weapons. And it's ok for us to have +700 army bases overseas. But Mitt Romney or Giuliani would shit a brick if Iran had a nuclear plant, and they would have to cuddle up to one of William Kristol's teats if France or Egypt wanted to - god forbid - have an army base in Iowa or Wisconsin.
"ever since Vietnam, the hawks have almost always been right on major questions of national security."
Kaplans rising.
Ignore the Moose.
.
GWPDA, yclept SansDent | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:32 pm | #
and the light above the kitchen table.
Just because Biden proposes something doesn't mean it's stupid.
I'm sorry, but any example you provide will simply be the exception that proves the rule: Anything proposed by Joe Biden is stupid.
it scares me that mrs clinton is considered to be on "the left"
Even the business community, usually a fairly tough-minded precinct, seems jelly-kneed at the prospect.
That sentence really sums up the whole problem...the idea that it's "tough-minded" to swallow any shit you're handed, unquestioningly.
As opposed to being, y'know, skeptical. Or wanting evidence. Or weighing outcomes. Or assessing whether you've got the right team for the job, regardless of whether or not the job needs doing.
it scares me that mrs clinton is considered to be on "the left"
dirk gently, sociopathetic© | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:34 pm | #
Egg Zactly
Now, insisting on sticking around until three stable states are in place - when we haven't been able to create even one stable state in four years - that would be stupid. I hope Gelb is just talking about doing what we can, on our way out the door, to bolster the stability of whatever partition might emerge once we're gone.
nicteis | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:27 pm |
Gelb and Galbraith were against the partition of Bosnia, correctly.
Not sure what the hell happened to have them both think that partition is going to work in Iraq.
ever since Vietnam, the hawks have almost always been right on major questions of national security.
---
WHAT QUESTIONS ?
Invade Grenada -- who even knew ?
Lebanon, 1980 -- great success
Nicaragua -- great success
El Salvador -- great success
Panama -- wtf ?
Gulf War I -- hawks wanted to take Baghdad. Heh.
Kosovo -- hawks ? what hawks ? hawks think peace missions are for pussies.
Joe ?
Ignore the Moose.
my sister was bit by a moose once.
no, really. she was carving her initials in the moose ...
it scares me that mrs clinton is considered to be on "the left"
That just refers to which side she keeps her cock.
it scares me that mrs clinton is considered to be on "the left"
She campaigned for Goldwater.
t scares me that mrs clinton is considered to be on "the left"
dirk gently, sociopathetic©
We'd put her on the right but then the LB would get to our QB every down.
"Just because Biden proposes something doesn't mean it's stupid. Peter Galbraith has been against the war from the beginning, and pushing for a three state solution from early '04."
It might be a good idea, but I can't see the Turks allowing a Kurdish state next door.
Anything proposed by Joe Biden is stupid.
Snow,
*
so no Biden as Sec State for you?
who then?
Just because Biden proposes something doesn't mean it's stupid.
Just because it's by K-Fed doesn't mean it'll be a shitty album.
"Just because Biden proposes something doesn't mean it's stupid."
Safe bet it's stupid, self-serving, probusiness and, maybe or, dangerous.
As opposed to being, y'know, skeptical. Or wanting evidence.
hey, they showed you a test tube full of talcum powder. how much more proof do you need? what the fuck do you want?
Even the business community, usually a fairly tough-minded precinct
Oh fuck, absolutely *anything* goes in the bidness sector.
no, really. she was carving her initials in the moose ...
dirk gently, sociopathetic© | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:35 pm | #
what did Squirrel have to say about that?
so no Biden as Sec State for you?
who then?
NTodd.
It might be a good idea, but I can't see the Turks allowing a Kurdish state next door.
Lumpenprolitariot
*
The ISG directed us to engage these mofos over a year ago to figure out what they will allow.
so no Biden as Sec State for you?
bwahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!!!!!
you so funny.
BTW, I don't believe you can play in over 2300 consecutive games without taking some performance-enhancing substance. Like steroids or greenies.
Still on that one, huh?
Man, those grapes sure are sour.
Anything proposed by Joe Biden is stupid.
Snow,
*
so no Biden as Sec State for you?
who then?
Nancy Willing | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:36 pm |
No Biden, no Nunn. No 'wise men' of the Senate, please.
so no Biden as Sec State for you?
who then?
Joe Biden would be an excellent SecState. No vote in the Senate, and he only implements the President's foreign policy - he doesn't decide it.
what did Squirrel have to say about that?
therealhellkitty | 07.28.07 - 4:37 pm | #
whatsamatta u
secy of state?
joe wilson.
Joe Biden would be an excellent SecState.
Are you insane? He would be condi in white face.
Joe ?
Doug Watts
*
nicely done sir
what the fuck do you want?
dirk gently, sociopathetic© | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:37 pm | # [kill][hide comment]
I would've liked a really resonant metaphor. Or an analogy drawn from pop culture...like Gary Cooper in "High Noon," maybe.
Just to prove that the situation really was serious, you understand.
so no Biden as Sec State for you?
who then?
Nancy Willing | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:36 pm | #
Larry Flynt
Leslie Gelb: "Hey Jelly-knees! Here's your opportunity to defend yourself and make some money!"
Sorry Atrios but he sounds pathetically as stoopid as the rest of those sapsucking idiots. If the inside men in non=proliferation and U.N. inspections said ..."Nuh uh" they don't, then what made this Leslie licensed to "tour" throughout our country selling it? I got some thories but I'll keep them to myself. I hope they are happy and proud, and so too are the 5th estate enablers that never mention how wrong and murderous were hisconsequences as they invite him to publish and promote the next set of spurilous lies and half baked racists subjective opinions.
"Real Estate Vancouver Island"
54ş40' or Flight!
so no Biden as Sec State for you?
who then?
Joe Biden would be an excellent SecState. No vote in the Senate, and he only implements the President's foreign policy - he doesn't decide it.
Snow, Liberal | 07.28.07 - 4:38 pm
No, he'd be crappy SecState. Unlike Rice, you'd want a SecState who has some ideas of their own, not just implementing what the President 'wants.'
Are you insane? He would be condi in white face.
spinoza
*
nay nay
he will be great
Condi eats neo con dick
I assure you, Biden craves a higher cut of flesh
Nancy - Are liquor stores open on Sundays?
Still on that one, huh?
Man, those grapes sure are sour.
billy b - toys in the attic
I forget, Ripken saved baseball - for the Yankees and Red Sox.
Now, insisting on sticking around until three stable states are in place - when we haven't been able to create even one stable state in four years - that would be stupid. I hope Gelb is just talking about doing what we can, on our way out the door, to bolster the stability of whatever partition might emerge once we're gone.
nicteis | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:27 pm |
Gelb and Galbraith were against the partition of Bosnia, correctly.
Not sure what the hell happened to have them both think that partition is going to work in Iraq.
Buckeye, Dealer of Rare Coins
Can someone explain to me why partition is such a horrendous idea? It seems like the only feasible approach to me--and the one that will eventually happen if and when we ever get the fuck out of there.
TIA.
I'm actually not trying to pick on Gelb who, in the pantheon of Very Serious People of Washington, seems to be generally a lot more intelligent and sane than most.
He's still a fucktard who is barely qualified to ask "do you want fries with that?" at most.
Are you insane?
My shrink says yes.
He would be condi in white face.
So? So long as they play golf together, they can stay out of the intelligent people's way. Plus, no vote in the Senate.
I would've liked a really resonant metaphor. Or an analogy drawn from pop culture...like Gary Cooper in "High Noon," maybe.
Mitt Romney with the Dog of State tied to the roof of his car?
calvin seems to recall that the CFR might be a front group for the Tri-Lateral Commission. You know, the erstwhile business types who make decisions for us that relieve us of the need to actually be consulted or vote on what we will be spending our tax dollars on. Oh, yes. And, non-tax dollars.
Joe Biden would be an excellent President of the Hair Club for Men.
excellent SecState.
Kerry
l
secy of state?
joe wilson.
dirk gently, sociopathetic© | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:39 pm
Wilson, I'd even take Holbrooke, maybe Gen. Clark, drawing a blank right now on other candidates.
led by the Emir Hussein of Mecca's son, Faisal.
El a-Rence?
NTodd, More Awesomer
At the Peace Conference in Paris, Faysal tried to prompt the British to fulfil the promises they had made to his father in the Husayn-McMahon correspondence (July 1915-January 1916); that is the creation of an independent Arab state. But he soon was confronted with the fact, that Great Britain felt bound to the secret Sykes-Picot-Agreement with France (May 1916) and that the French were not willing to give up their claims in Syria. On 7 March 1920 Faysal was crowned by the Syrian National Congress as King of Syria. In April 1920 the Conference of San Remo decided to give France the mandate for Syria that led to the battle of Maysalun (24 July 1920) and Faysal's expulsion from Syria by the French. In August 1921 he was enthroned King of Iraq. On 8 September 1933 he suddenly died of a heart attack during a stay in the Swiss capital of Bern.
i'm serious about joe wilson, btw.
it would be nice to have a secy of state who was, you know, a statesman.
He's still a fucktard who is barely qualified to ask "do you want fries with that?" at most.
Your bedside manner is charming and makes women swoon before they projectile vomit and die.
Joe Biden would be an excellent President of the Hair Club for Men.
Put Joe Biden in a rear admiral's uniform, and he'd make a fine doorman at the Waldorf-Astoria.
Nancy - Are liquor stores open on Sundays?
I'm not Nancy, but yes. As of a few years ago.
I have some good friends that own a liquor store on the MD state line that took a beating when DE allowed Sunday sales.
No, he'd be crappy SecState. Unlike Rice, you'd want a SecState who has some ideas of their own, not just implementing what the President 'wants.'
Buckeye
*
dude, Biden has been upfront since 2002 about this war on Iraq he has pre-saged every step of this administration. He has authored recent bill to get thee behind us satan and is fucking as independent on foreign policy as you can get outside of pacem in terrace
Not sure what the hell happened to have them both think that partition is going to work in Iraq.
Buckeye, Dealer of Rare Coins
Can someone explain to me why partition is such a horrendous idea? It seems like the only feasible approach to me--and the one that will eventually happen if and when we ever get the fuck out of there.
TIA.
el grande gringo | 07.28.07 - 4:41 pm | #
Partition is 'divide and quit', it doesn't solve the problem of the 'roots' of the problem.
It sounds like a nice idea, we separate the 'warring factions' and they'll stop killing each other.
The history of partition says otherwise.
54ş40' or Flight!
Manifest Destiny
"Fifty-four forty, or Fight!" was a quite effective campaign slogan offered at a time when about a quarter of one percent of the voters even knew where that was on a map.
Sort of like Iraq.
"Can someone explain to me why partition is such a horrendous idea? It seems like the only feasible approach to me--and the one that will eventually happen if and when we ever get the fuck out of there."
Anyone?
Are you insane?
My shrink says yes.
He would be condi in white face.
So? So long as they play golf together, they can stay out of the intelligent people's way. Plus, no vote in the Senate.
Snow, Liberal | 07.28.07 - 4:41 pm | #
Secretary of State - He could bore other countries into submission and try to convince them to apply for Mastercard.
http://www.comcast.net/news/
nati...itn_prisonguard
Weren't we discussing prison guards just the other day?
Can someone explain to me why partition is such a horrendous idea? It seems like the only feasible approach to me--and the one that will eventually happen if and when we ever get the fuck out of there.
Ask the citizens of Israel/Palestine, Ireland, and India how well Partition went.
yeah, i could see kerry as secy state. in fact, i seem to remember suggesting that president dean appoint him. and clark as secdef.
you know what would be really fun?
waxman as atty general.
I forget, Ripken saved baseball - for the Yankees and Red Sox.
Gomez | 07.28.07 - 4:41 pm | #
Say what?
I don't follow.
Can someone explain to me why partition is such a horrendous idea?
Northern Ireland.
"Even the business community, usually a fairly tough-minded precinct, seems jelly-kneed at the prospect. "I have never seen such unanimity on any foreign policy issue," says Leslie H. Gelb"
One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the ants will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I’d like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.
Can someone explain to me why partition is such a horrendous idea?
If the 20th Century doesn't, I don't know what will.
hey we have no beer in the grocery or 7-11 but we now have Sunday sales.
When we were kids we made the run to State Line Liquors MD !!
thanks billy
you should really join us at the vigil
one hour a week
Thanks, Buckeye. I didn't see your comment before my last post.
I can see Kerry as Secretary of State.
Teresa would be one helluva asset.
it would be nice to have a secy of state who was, you know, a statesman.
Sir, are you insane? I want a sec of state who has an oil tanker named after her and can play piano while talking about the Czech military in the 1950s.
On second thought, No Joe Biden as SecState - he might suggest the Indian Prime Minister open a Quik E Mart in Delaware.
Seriously, partition throws flames on civil wars; it doesn't solve them.
Put Joe Biden in a rear admiral's uniform, and he'd make a fine doorman at the Waldorf-Astoria.
Apprentice to Darth Holden
That'd be the Hotel DuPont...
Partition never really solves the matter, because people don't conveniently live on sides of a border. They never do.
OK, I'll go back to my insane frustration mode now and stop trying to be reasonable.
Northern Ireland.
Terry
*
point taken
after years of terrorism on English soil, violence and the like was slowly abated in Ireland
"we separate the 'warring factions' and they'll stop killing each other."
Split the pony.
i guessed cal ripken's name so he didn't get to keep my baby.
Seriously, partition throws flames on civil wars; it doesn't solve them.
Molly Ivors | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:46 pm | # [kill][hide comment]
Not even if we build lots and lots of "peace walls"?
thanks nancy
Anyone?
el grande gringo
It's been done in Mesopotamia. Several times. It doesn't work. Not even G_d's Own People the Americans(tm) can make it work.
But I'm sure there will be a lot of people dead before the very serious people give up trying, again.
.
No, he'd be crappy SecState. Unlike Rice, you'd want a SecState who has some ideas of their own, not just implementing what the President 'wants.'
Buckeye
*
dude, Biden has been upfront since 2002 about this war on Iraq he has pre-saged every step of this administration. He has authored recent bill to get thee behind us satan and is fucking as independent on foreign policy as you can get outside of pacem in terrace
Nancy Willing | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:43 pm
That's actually dudette.
Biden's not an idiot, in 1995, I'd have said he'd make a fine SecState.
But now, he doesn't instill confidence, I don't think he's got what it takes to come up with ideas, carry them through, lead tough negotiations, that sort of thing.
Mitt, if you can't lick a snowman, how ya gonna lick Osama?
It sounds like a nice idea, we separate the 'warring factions' and they'll stop killing each other.
The history of partition says otherwise.
Give me a break!
-John Brown's mouldering body
after years of terrorism on English soil, violence and the like was slowly abated in Ireland
Because we "negotiated with terrorists."
Ripken belongs in the Hall. No more discussion.
Say what?
I don't follow.
billy b - toys in the attic
I guess you had to be in a town like Pittsburgh and see no chance of having a good team because teams like the Orioles wouldn't support a salary cap.
Maybe you'd have a good team for one year, and then you lose them to free agency.
And then hear how after the 94 strike a player from a team that was a big part of the problem is held up as "saving baseball"
That'd be the Hotel DuPont...
billy b -
*
I would not back the boy if I did not see that he has been five steps ahead of this mess. he has.
Seriously, partition throws flames on civil wars; it doesn't solve them.
Molly Ivors
But don't you think that will be the eventual outcome for Iraq anyway? Or will it come down to the last tribe standing?
"Can someone explain to me why partition is such a horrendous idea?
I cannot remember which Federalist Paper it was, but one of those should be sufficient.
Nancy Willing | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:39 pm | #
---
I left out the post-Vietnam "hawks" also supporting:
Mobuto in Zaire; bring out your dead !!!
Apartheid in South Africa: Go Slavery !!!!
Papa Doc in Haiti: Dictators are Good.
Iron Maggie in Northern Ireland: Fuckin' Micks.
Guatemala: CIA Full Employment Act.
Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan
and ...
Saddam Hussein in Iraq !!!
Thanks for playing Joke Line's Ever since Vietnam, the hawks have almost always been right on major questions of National Security.
Because we "negotiated with terrorists."
Molly Ivors '
*
hah!
Not even if we build lots and lots of "peace walls"?
Nope.
OK, back to reasonable.
The problem with guys like Gelb is that it never crosses the organic material they have inside their skulls that passes for brains that wars of aggression, pre-emptive wars, are what the BAD GUYS do. They've willfully turnd the US into the objective BAD GUYS, and they don't even see it.
Next they'll be rounding up Muslims for the camps and they won't give it a second fucking thought.
Ripken belongs in the Hall. No more discussion.
MP
.300 hitters only.
This leaves out Mazeroski too.
bless you Dr. Watts and all that you do!
you should really join us at the vigil
one hour a week
I'll get up there soon. Sat's are always catchup days around the house...
You should take a drive in NE MD soon before the developers start developin', ql.
It's a beautiful area. Take a drive out 273 sometime.
It ain't gonna last long.
I cannot remember which Federalist Paper it was, but one of those should be sufficient.
Federalist #10, I think. On factions.
One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the ants will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I’d like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.
Kent Brockman | 07.28.07 - 4:44 pm | #
Maybe my favorite Simpsons line ever.
One of the best critiques of teevee bobbleheads ever- delivered in a 15 second throwaway scene. Gotta love it.
.300 hitters only.
This leaves out Mazeroski too.
Gomez
Where are you getting this "300 hitters only" faux restriction from?
Thanks, Buckeye. I didn't see your comment before my last post.
el grande gringo | 07.28.07 - 4:45 pm
If you're so interested see if your local library has a copy of Warpaths: The Politics of Partition by Robert Schaeffer. It's probably the best general book on partition that's out there.
http://archive.peacemagazine.org...rg/
v07n5p26.htm
ok did Gelb back this pre-emptive strike? Any more of less than pretty much every sitting Senator besides Obama?
secy of state biden gets his own sheets.
Next they'll be rounding up Muslims for the camps and they won't give it a second fucking thought.
Apprentice to Darth Holden
I read that and think of what Pastor Martin Niemöller wrote.
We should never have been there PERIOD!
now everybody spank yosef
then go put on Stevie Guitar Miller's "I'll Never Kill Another Man" and sing along ... and mean it!
Great Britain felt bound to the secret Sykes-Picot-Agreement with France
Fucking civil servants.
I would not back the boy if I did not see that he has been five steps ahead of this mess. he has.
If he voted for the AUMF, he has not been 1 step ahead of this mess; he's been behind it.
One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the ants will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I’d like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.
Kent Brockman
*
And then hear how after the 94 strike a player from a team that was a big part of the problem is held up as "saving baseball"
That's Peter Angelos. Nothing to do with Rip.
Angelos has ruined the O's.
The little bastard is a true Piece of Shit.
Where are you getting this "300 hitters only" faux restriction from?
MP
I think the HOF should be a little more exclusive.
Fred: "No, they're not bowling balls."
ever since Vietnam, the hawks have almost always been right on major questions of national security.
Yeah, the US is so much more beloved and the world is a much safer place thanks to the post-Vietnam hawks. And what's with starting to count after Viet Nam? There's a name for that in statistical research, I think, when you just disregard data that disproves your point.
"No more discussion."
That's right, Money! Your money's happiness is all that moneys!
Gomez | 07.28.07 - 4:52 pm |
agree, but ripken should still be in, and definitely not Maz
l
But don't you think that will be the eventual outcome for Iraq anyway? Or will it come down to the last tribe standing?
Not in the cities, which, before this wave of Sunni/Shia violence were pretty mixed. In Iraq, remember, only part of the violence is tribal; much is also sectarian.
In all these cases, however, the problem is false colonial constructs of nationhood which cram conflicting groups under the same national umbrella. However, you can't just undo colonialism by sending everyone back to where they were--history doesn't work backwards.
from above
1920-1923 - Iraq is created by the British Protectorate, gathering together the three political elements of ancient Mesopotamia.... The chief British advisors, Ambassador Sir Percy Z. Cox and Oriental Secretary, Miss Gertrude Bell of the India Office were successful in the creation of the new country as a monarchy, led by the Emir Hussein of Mecca's son, Faisal.
.
GWPDA (with plenty of teeth)
Seriously, partition throws flames on civil wars; it doesn't solve them.
Molly Ivors
But don't you think that will be the eventual outcome for Iraq anyway? Or will it come down to the last tribe standing?
el grande gringo | 07.28.07 - 4:48 pm
It's entirely possible that Iraq will be partitioned, whether it's a good idea or not.
Doesn't mean it'll work, or cause many problems in the long run.
The countries of the ME may be artificial (as are many other modern nation states) but that doesn't mean drawing new borders and creating 'new' countries is the solution.
I think the HOF should be a little more exclusive.
Gomez
You actually don't believe Cal Ripken's career is worthy of induction into the Hall Of Fame?
Kent Brockmann = Joke Line
The countries of the ME may be artificial (as are many other modern nation states) but that doesn't mean drawing new borders and creating 'new' countries is the solution.
What Buckeye said.
only part of the violence is tribal; much is also sectarian.
*
another important point
everyone jumps to call the violence sectarian...it isn't that much
and pre-USA invasion these were a together, very well educated people who only had one small dick and his clan to contend with (remind you of,eh, Bushco)?
GWPDA (with plenty of teeth)
Nancy Willing | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:53 pm | #
interesting that the French would condone the installation of a monarchy.
And who was Miss Gertrude Bell that she got to decide the fate of nations?
Gah. Teen needs fetching early. Later!
Dear Nancy ...
I read this article in Atrios Blogspot today that said Leslie the honey bunch went on tour selling the idea that there were a forest of smoking guns and it was plain and incontrovertible that Saddam had weapons and weapons programs and weapons program related activites (oh wait that came later in the baloney stack as the stories changed) anywayz. One should open ones eyes occasionally ... like maybe TODAY! (o:
oops
logic is fading
must lurk a while until brother calls me for dinner.
.300 hitters only.
This leaves out Mazeroski too.
Gomez
Where are you getting this "300 hitters only" faux restriction from?
MP
Especially short stops.
With the .300 rule, Ozzie, Yount, Reese, Apparicio would not be in the hall.
Rip is the second in short stops for career hits and homers. In addition to playing in all the consecutive games.
Iraqis can discuss a partition if they want. It's none of our business.
We've "partitioned" that place and its people enough as it is ...
so hey ... anybody know if Leslie Dear Leslie promoted war anymore than any senator or congressperson?
sheets.
No silly ... dont tell me tell Nancy
All the Very Serious People were wrong, no that would be partisan, were mistaken, so in order to be considered a Very Serious People you had to have been mistaken like all the Very Serious People. See how it works?
Borders of Iraq today are no more or less artificial than the US borders.
Molly, a lot of things can be blamed on colonialism - of its time.
But Iraq hasn't been under the Protectorate since the second war. That's sixty years gone now, and quite a lot of water under the bridge. It's a little bit like examining the history of modern Mexico purely from a colonial perspective. Been a long time now. There's some elements, sure - as there are in your part of the US, or in Ireland indeed. But Iraq now has colonialism - or more properly imperialism - as an element of history, not of current events. Remember, the intervention in the area by the European powers was only a moment in the area's history - and that right up until the transfer to the British Protectorate, Iraq was an imperial dependency of the Ottomans - not the Europeans....
And that Iran was never a part of anyone else's empire but their own.
oy answer to AllTheDooDahDay
Biden said at the time that Saddam was not someone to leave alone but he never backed the pre-emptive shit and he always insisted that dear leader make explicit the treasure and life that this "venture" entailed.
So we have suffered the poor treatment of vets.
the paying for war by supplimental off budget and no sacrifice from USA in general but we ride wave after wave of
the general lies and deceit that got us here.
I think the HOF should be a little more exclusive.
Gomez
You actually don't believe Cal Ripken's career is worthy of induction into the Hall Of Fame?
It's the most exclusive HOF in all of sports. By far and away.
Which says that Rip getting in on the first ballot with the 3rd highest "election percentage" of all time in a real old game pretty much says it all.
Thank you.
Bush and his henchmen are criminal and evila dn need to be held accountable for thnot only their criminality but their treachery to this country. I'll live to see the day when they are hauled off to the hooskow and dealt with in kind.
Iraqis can discuss a partition if they want. It's none of our business.
We've "partitioned" that place and its people enough as it is ...
Doug Watts, lindane free. | Homepage | 07.28.07 - 4:57 pm
I agree. I don't think the US should define the borders of any partition, but that seems to be what the Iraqis have in mind. Clearly, this was an artificially created country, and the US invasion only brought that message home.
alot of tis talk of ancient mesopotamia and turkey with dressing if you're Hungary is obscurring and obsfucating the fact that Iraq and particularly Bagdad was a thriving modern metropolitan city. They didnt suffer one hour a day electricity, non-potable water, late school buses or any of that shit. Now they are bombed out so bad they only look like they just slowly crawled out of the stone age ... thanks to in no small way ... our inaction in letting a, for all intents and purposes, brain dysfunctional misanthrope with few if any friends and the business savvy of a thumbless eight year old at a mables contest of knuckles down tight, unilaterally attack their country because he thought he could and alla help us all for the one time in his life he was right ... he could because we and our representatives let him
(sorry I cant spell lest I look 'em up but the context should speak clearly)
I'll live to see the day when they are hauled off to the hooskow and dealt with in kind.
two words: Henry. Kissinger.
Borders of Iraq today are no more or less artificial than the US borders.
for the most part, the people who drew the lines here hadn't yet populated the places they drew the lines on.
which doesn't invalidate your point, but highlights our fiction of provinces as independent states.
Sure that fun stuff for the rubes. But humans are going to call you on your attempt to rewrite history.
My buddy Russ Feingold:
Statement of U.S. Senator Russ Feingold on Opposing the Resolution Authorizing the Use of Force Against Iraq
From the Senate Floor
October 9, 2002
I agree that Saddam Hussein is exceptionally dangerous and brutal, if not uniquely so, as the President argues. And I agree, I support the concept of regime change. Saddam Hussein is one of several despots from the international community -- whom the international community should condemn and isolate with the hope of new leadership in those nations. And, yes, I agree, if we do this Iraq invasion, I hope Saddam Hussein will actually be removed from power this time.
And I agree, therefore, Mr. President, we cannot do nothing with regard to Saddam Hussein and Iraq. We must act. We must act with serious purpose and stop the weapons of mass destruction and stop Saddam Hussein. And I agree a return to the inspections regime of the past alone is not a serious, credible policy.
http://www.senate.gov/~feingold/
...2002A10531.html
"But, Mr. President, I am increasingly troubled by the seemingly shifting justifications for an invasion at this time. My colleagues, I'm not suggesting there has to be only one justification for such a dramatic action. But when the Administration moves back and forth from one argument to another, I think it undercuts the credibility of the case and the belief in its urgency. I believe that this practice of shifting justifications has much to do with the troubling phenomenon of many Americans questioning the Administration's motives in insisting on action at this particular time.
What am I talking about? I'm talking about the spectacle of the President and senior Administration officials citing a purported connection to al Qaeda one day, weapons of mass destruction the next day, Saddam Hussein's treatment of his own people on another day, and then on some days the issue of Kuwaiti prisoners of war."
(ibid.)
Buckeye, thanks for the book recommendation.
As the one who started a minor food fight by coming to the defense of the partition camp,
I was going to jump in and answer the question on "what's so terrible about partition", if Buckeye and Molly hadn't covered it. I agree it's a terrible idea; but of course all ideas, including the least bad idea (get the hell out) are at this point terrible ideas.
The only value in thinking about partition is the fact that it's likely to happen, in some fashion or other, when we leave. We have lost the power to direct that process, if we ever had any. I merely maintain that it would be serious (in the obsolete good sense) to ask whether anything in our manner of leaving could mitigate the horrors that partition will bring. That, however naive it might be of me, I would like to think that some few of the elite were scratching their heads over it.
"Max Boot is a centrist"-media
(ibid.)
el grande gringo,
The post say only unserious people thought "that it's clear Saddam has these weapons and doesn't want to disarm"
Feingold:
"We must act. We must act with serious purpose and stop the weapons of mass destruction and stop Saddam Hussein."
Is Feingold unserious? Should we say we aren't picking on Feingold while we pick on him? Seriously?
That three-state solution is originally from Peter Galbraith. And it's a good one.
Did you know that there's nearly zero unemployment in the booming Iraqi Kurdistan, and that Turkey is the major investor there?
Sure, Leslie Gelb's a serious guy. He freaking wrote/edited the Pentagon papers, you can't get more serious than that. So, he wrote the Pentagon Papers--he knows them better than Ellsberg--and then he stayed quiet about it. Sure, he would have gotten in trouble if he had pulled an Ellsberg. But come on. Ellsberg is a moral, reasonable, human. Gelb is a member of the ruling class, with some attachment to his peers but perfectly willing to shield the inner-workings of power from the unwashed. He's a nice guy. His kids are okay. He's smart. He was friends with David Halberstam. He's fairly generous. Serious? Yeah. Moral? Not so much.
Gelb who, in the pantheon of Very Serious People of Washington, seems to be generally a lot more intelligent and sane than most.
Isn't that kinda like being the most chaste whore at the Mustang Ranch?
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