I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
blech...
Foist?
Underoos for everyone!
OK... Second!
Fortunately, I'm too poor to worry about getting screwed by this deal.
you lose ... comrade
sally forth!
Can I just skip to step 3?
I find it hard to believe I am still sober on a night such as this.
I can haz bailout?
I am reminded of toddlers, running madly through the house, aware that their parents are coming to get them, stuffing cake into their mouths and grabbing whatever's available to be grabbed.
sally forth?
no - SoCalCommie fourth.
I find it hard to believe I am still sober on a night such as this.
You are just not really trying, IMHO.
dead-threaded again:
Conservatism is based on fear & ignorance -- it seems to manifest even in infancy
And selfishness. I think it's a fundamentally selfish ideology.
I promise to put more effort into it immediately. As soon as Mrs. Hillbilly comes home and spells me from crittersittin.
Sinf
I have a v cute pic of G/Son wearing his DFH t shirt. There's a whole new generation coming.
Is this some kind of stunt for "Brewster's Millions II?" I LOVED that movie!
I wonder if they get a Christmas Club account with the 700 bill.
"I wonder if they get a Christmas Club account with the 700 bill."
and a toaster
Rotty Bloody Feckin' Hell!
.
I have a v cute pic of G/Son wearing his DFH t shirt. There's a whole new generation coming.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator
That's wonderful!
Of course, the fact that the most successful thing I've ever done is create a sticker/logo is a little disconcerting ... 
From TPM
Palin To Meet With Karzai
Sarah Palin will be meeting this coming week with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, during Karzai's visit to the U.N. General Assembly in New York. The meeting will likely attract a lot of press attention, as Palin seeks to make up for her lack of experience in foreign policy.
I smell an SNL bit with Palin and, oh, let's say Ben Kingsley.
Shades of an old system analyst's cartoon. Two ants before a very elaborate process diagram. Right in the middle is a block labeled "and then a miracle occurs".
I want my fuckin' money! NOW!
Profit!? That's so 20th Century Capitalistic. How quaint. We aren't Capitalists anymore. I don't know what the fuck we are, but we're not Capitalists anymore. Thanks, George, you and the criminals who support you have truly fucked up everything.
Personally, I think doing anything the Bush junta wants creates a moral hazard...
I am barely keeping up.
I love that the fiscal conservatives all want to fund something best expressed in scientific notation.
7E+11
Nice.
Just for that... Curly, again!
.
Karzai must feel like an ass having to meet with that twit.
I can haz bailout?
George Johnston | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 9:57 pm
Haz morals? If so, then hazard is too high. Must save you from temptation.
Wall St. CEOs haz no morals, so no risk of hazard temptation.
7E+11
Nice.
mmmm...slurpee.
Why do I have the sinking feeling that this is going to make Katrina look like a smashing success?
Just for that... Curly, again!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:02 pm | #
Pat him on the haid fer me!
Our economy is in ruins. Unemloyment is high. The national debt is a fraking joke. Our trade balance is even worse. Most people are in debt to their hairline and most of our industry is gone or broke.
a trillion is not going to come close to fixing this mess. Maybe not even ten trillion. When is enough enough?
smalfish | 09.20.08 - 9:59 pm | #
I want my fuckin' money! NOW!
Supreme Commander Thor
Hell I'd settle for a motherfucking iced tea.
We rep-re-sent... the Underpants Gnomes
The Underpants Gnomes
The Underpants Gnomes....
Remember the Clinton surplus?
What do Wall Street types EVER support Republicans?
What do Wall Street types EVER support Republicans?
They like to gamble.
We would like to apologise for our very distant relatives, teh Underpants Gnomes. They never did have any sense.
I'm counting my money, even as we speak.
Rich people don't want government surplusses.
It means they have to pay the help more.
It's also the Iraq war financing scheme.
Congress will pass this insanity because of the political principle explained in "Yes, Prime Minister" -- "We must do something. This is something. Therefore we must do this."
Maybe Sarah will bring Hamid a nice fur cape. He likes those.
the most successful thing I've ever done is create a sticker/logo is a little disconcerting
It's pretty scary to think that most people are doing well to have one good idea in their life. If you have more consider yourself blessed.
Gromit, thanks for the pizza etc, and thanks to Dr. Mrs. Gromit and your kind self.
Yeah, but at least embryonic stem cell research ain't happening. That's gotta be worth a few trillion dollars, right?
"Think of a drunk gambler at a slot machine"
Yglesias!
a trillion is not going to come close to fixing this mess. Maybe not even ten trillion. When is enough enough?
it's never enough, that's the problem. These guys just play number games and hope to get rich of this shit.
That's all there is.
Dunno if this link will work here -- pix from the anti-Palin rally in Alaska:
http://mail.google.com/mail/?
ui=...1c828a151ea88dd
Gilly Gonzylon: Pat him on the haid fer me!
I'll stroke the M for ya.
.
Teh Garden Gnomes
Hey! I know you. I carried you all around Half Life Two Episode something or other and put you in a space ship. Why are you still on earth?
Check out Darkblack's latest. Excellent photoshopping skills...
A 700 billion dollar bail out. Hey, what could go wrong? Look how great the Iraq War has been.
Wow -- Boise State beat Oregon in Eugene. But Oregon scored 19 points in the 4th quarter and almost overcame a huge deficit.
$2300 from every man woman and child in the country.
I never ever want to hear a wingnut bitch about welfare again.
Takin it back with Barack, Jack.
Again, what the hell does a "sane" plan look like. Sure, we can put in the rules and regs which were discarded to engender the shitpile souffle, but action needs to be taken to minimize the damage done? All kinds of loans outstanding on overvalued real estate. Securities held by pension funds, based on the over-valued mortages, etc.
New Rockefeller Drug Law-esque rules for corporate CEOs and bankers - run a company or a financial institution into the ground, mandatory 10 years in prison.
I'm just sick of this. The junkie holding up a liquor store or the guy with a rock of crack in his pocket gets punished more harshly than the people who destroy our financial systems and bill the tax payers trillions for their greed and irresponsibility.
It needs to stop. Today.
$2300 from every man woman and child in the country.
That's on top of our current tax burden, plus I recall hearing that same phrasing a few years back. Something about a war I think.
I am reminded of toddlers, running madly through the house, aware that their parents are coming to get them, stuffing cake into their mouths and grabbing whatever's available to be grabbed.
Well, there is a deadline, after all. At 6 .00 their Mummies and Daddies will take them home to bed....
Could someone please translate $700 billion into real homes, cars, start-up businesses?
Just got invited to a conference to discuss "John McCain's dangerous plan to both privatize Social Security and deregulate health care companies"
'K, I knew he wanted to fuck with SS, but deregulate health care companies too?? WTF?
Again, what the hell does a "sane" plan look like. Sure, we can put in the rules and regs which were discarded to engender the shitpile souffle, but action needs to be taken to minimize the damage done? All kinds of loans outstanding on overvalued real estate. Securities held by pension funds, based on the over-valued mortages, etc.
But the two steps are not unrelated. Unless we put in some regulations with a bite the market will just collapse again in a few months' time.
Yes, the government needs to do something and whatever it does won't be pleasant, but ignoring the fact that the nut game is ongoing is really dangerous.
How's that supercollider coming along? Did they find those spare parts they were looking for?
Could someone please translate $700 billion into real homes, cars, start-up businesses?
Le Jackel
But, but ... John Boehner (R-Fucktard) said if the Democrats play politics with the bailout, it would hurt "families, seniors, and small businesses!"
Actual. Fucking. Quote.
"I never ever want to hear a wingnut bitch about welfare again-."
-Nim, ham hock of liberty
Aren't they doing this already?
Isn't that what the "democrats were
always in the pocket of freddie and
fanny, etc." is all about?
Drug Law-esque rules for corporate CEOs and bankers - run a company or a financial institution into the ground, mandatory 10 years in prison.
I draw a line between privately held and publicly held companies. There's a big diff between the two, and how they can or cannot create a financial hazard to the public.
On c-span2/BookTV:
After Words: Zbigniew Brzezinski and Brent Scowcroft authors of "America and the World: Conversations on the Future of American Foreign Policy" interviewed by David Ignatius, columnist for The Washington Post.
-
But the two steps are not unrelated. Unless we put in some regulations with a bite the market will just collapse again in a few months' time.
The market till has a very good chance of collapsing weather they pass this bill or not.
Oregon scored 19 points in the 4th quarter and almost overcame a huge deficit.
Did they beat the spread? That's all that matters, really...
SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS.
Deal or No Deal!?!?
Just got invited to a conference to discuss "John McCain's dangerous plan to both privatize Social Security and deregulate health care companies"
'K, I knew he wanted to fuck with SS, but deregulate health care companies too?? WTF?
Diane
Yep, his own words, published for your edification.
After Words: Zbigniew Brzezinski and Brent Scowcroft authors of "America and the World: Conversations on the Future of American Foreign Policy" interviewed by David Ignatius, columnist for The Washington Post.
-
QuentinCompson, Negatory | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:11 pm
Bunch of gas bags making must miss TV.
SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS.
Into a slot machine.
Could someone please translate $700 billion into real homes, cars, start-up businesses?
3.5 million $200,000 homes to start.
I never ever want to hear a wingnut bitch about welfare again.
Or the middle class wingnut who claims that "the wealthy made their money on their own, they should get to keep it all!"
Dumbshits, all of them.
The market till has a very good chance of collapsing whether they pass this bill or not.
I'm pretty sure the market has already collapsed as a result of implosion. What remains to be discovered is whether the overall economy has as well.
The market till has a very good chance of collapsing weather they pass this bill or not.
Yes, of course, and it most likely will again. But it's like turning up at the ER. Sure, you need instant attention. But unless you get continuing medical care you're likely to be back there again, so you should get whatever caused the attack to be seen to so that you don't get more attacks.
How long before the theory circulates in Pakistan that the Marriott attack was a US missile a la Clear and Present Danger?
Did they beat the spread? That's all that matters, really...
dave™©
I imagine Oregon was favored at home so, no.
SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS.
Into a slot machine.
Man, I gotta 2 and a 3 . . . I could pull that straight--
ALL IN!!!!!!!!!
Conversely, vowing to do better, which we need to do, doesn't emeliorate the current disaster, just forestalls the next one until enough assholes whine loud enough about how their new reality is different and the regulations are quaint and hindering. "Don't you trust us?"
Moral hazard!
Hell, I grew up with the guy. He talked about the cold Pennsylvia winters and his dad's amphorisms.
It is time for a New Deal!
But unless you get continuing medical care you're likely to be back there again, so you should get whatever caused the attack to be seen to so that you don't get more attacks.
But what if I'm an alcoholic and my liver has failed?
If you need cheering up, though, it's helpful to see that Sarah Palin appears to be scaring voters away in droves. 
the two-thirds who want universal health care: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/
l...31020_poll.html
their party?
Thanks, Sinf. What a crazy mofo
'Night batses.
Hmmm. Perhaps I overstated it when I said "droves." But still ...
Blame yourselves, Little People -- it's all your fault!
Will someone please tell Michelle Singletary, Personal Finance Columnist for the WaPo, to just shut the fuck up!
What Happens When We Forget To Diversify
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...ml?
hpid=topnews
WTF is Singletary talking about?
Wall Street did "diversify" -- and its vaunted and overpaid Masters of the Universe did it on steroids -- their complex and innovative and incentivized "exotic" instruments were called derivatives and "Collateralized Debt Obligations" and "Credit Default Swaps" and they securitized everything including the toilet paper!
Singletary would have us believe that the Wall Street meltdown is our fault -- and if we've lost money in our pathetic little 401ks or money market accounts it's because we forgot to fucking diversify!
Michelle Singletary is the Cokie Roberts of the WaPo's financial page -- what a fool!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Drug Law-esque rules for corporate CEOs and bankers - run a company or a financial institution into the ground, mandatory 10 years in prison.
Too Draconian and you'd have to build too many prisons but you could do something else. Bar them from being corporate officers for ten years. Make them work for a living. It's been done before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Reg...ulator_movement
But what if I'm an alcoholic and my liver has failed?
Here's the nice thing: Markets and industries are not like human beings, more like robots. So we can fix them.
$700 billion would pay for health care.
Universal Health Care.
Everything we ever dreamed of.
Oh, Christ -- ANOTHER fucking interception by Wake Forest?
Goddammit. FSU should have won this game. Turnovers and penalties KILL you. Just fucking KILL you.
(Grandmere flops on to barstool, needs nice gentleman to order her a lemon and seltzer)
Thanks, Sinf. What a crazy mofo
Diane | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:16 pm | #
It's interesting what we say here echoes. We say dude, every dude says dude. Crazy mofo is next.
$700 billion would pay for health care.
Gomez
But think of all the weaponry it'll buy!
Well, my wingnut relative who is hooked on to Fox 24/7 told me that the crash is caused by Schumer and his insistence to give mortgages to poor and lazy people with no money.
Sinf, how are those drugs working for you?
Here's the nice thing: Markets and industries are not like human beings, more like robots. So we can fix them.
Then it needs a new cpu.
Goddammit. FSU should have won this game. Turnovers and penalties KILL you. Just fucking KILL you.
Sinf, awaiting knee surgery
90% of this game is half mental.
I wish Palin would start scaring the catholics. at least around here they're so single issue driven.
$700 billion would pay for health care
and my student loans.
Sweet mother of god, I just read NTodd's post on identity.
I am real, are you?
K, I knew he wanted to fuck with SS, but deregulate health care companies too?? WTF?
Sure, read Bob Herbert's column about it. McCain's Radical Agenda
You could buy about a billion $700 laptops and start connecting a lot of people to the rest of the world
(Grandmere flops on to barstool, needs nice gentleman to order her a lemon and seltzer)
Heh. They do wear one out, don't they?
Barkeep! One for my friend!
WOW.
One of my alma maters, Vanderbilt, went to Oxford and beat Ole Miss there.
It's the first time they've been 3-0 since something like 1971.
Echidne, it would be laughable were it not so pathetic.
$700 billion would pay for health care.
Gomez
Yeah but that would be socialism.
Plus, something about waiting lists.
Did anyone see the CBS Evening News tonight?
It sucked major you would never know about the big shit pile or what Obama had to say about it.
You would know that being black has hurt Obamas chances for the WHITE house though...
$700 billion would pay for health care.
Let's just say that dream is now fucking dead. No matter what happens.
Gromit, thanks for the pizza etc, and thanks to Dr. Mrs. Gromit and your kind self.
sidhra
You are most welcome, my dear. 'Twas great to see you.
Go fast tomorrow, and keep the keel in the water.
(Grandmere flops on to barstool, needs nice gentleman to order her a lemon and seltzer) - Sallyh
Don't have the slice, okay to substitue a SIL's head?
Goddammit. FSU should have won this game. Turnovers and penalties KILL you. Just fucking KILL you.
Apparently not very well...
I wish Palin would start scaring the catholics. at least around here they're so single issue driven.
I didn't realize we lived so close.
WOW! Wake has missed THREE field goals tonight! Evidently their kicker is damn near automatic ... except tonight!
STILL a chance ...
"(Grandmere flops on to barstool, needs nice gentleman to order her a lemon and seltzer)"
BARKEEP!! a lemon and seltzer for the lady. and water for her horse
For $700 billion you could give everyone in the world a C-Note and have money left over for beer.
A lot of beer.
And ANOTHER interception!
This is completely fucked up.
I draw a line between privately held and publicly held companies. There's a big diff between the two, and how they can or cannot create a financial hazard to the public.
Doug
Whatever. My 70-something parents have their pension through AIG.
They've worked hard their entire lives and did everything a person is supposed to do to prepare themselves for financial security in their old age.
To leave people like that destitute so some shithead Bush-voting, diaper-wearing, whore-visiting playboy in Manhattan can wear silk suits and order $300 glasses of Cognac after dinner is just sick.
It needs to be punished accordingly.
A petty thief trying to grab my mom's purse at the mall would get more time than these people. And that's just way, way wrong.
Gromit, could you and Mrs. Dr. Gromit send over a pizza?
Grandmere is exhausted after an entire day with Maddy, Mlle and Mlle's bf.
Her ex caved pretty fucking fast once I walked last night.
Let me just say that I'd love to become an early adoptor for Market2.0.
Mmmmmm...maybe not.
I'll just wait and see how it flies.
"According to the study: “The McCain plan will force millions of Americans into the weakest segment of the private insurance system — the nongroup market — where cost-sharing is high, covered services are limited and people will lose access to benefits they have now.”
The net effect of the plan, the study said, “almost certainly will be to increase family costs for medical care.”
Under the McCain plan (now the McCain-Palin plan) employees who continue to receive employer-paid health benefits would look at their pay stubs each week or each month and find that additional money had been withheld to cover the taxes on the value of their benefits."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/1...gin&
oref=slogin
their party?
gary in fl | 09.20.08 - 10:15 pm | #
Democrats.
Who have no money because of Republicans.
Your solution?
SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS.
Into a slot machine.
smalfish
Umm, no. Pouring out of the payout slot at the bottom, with sireens and flashing lights going JACKPOT!!-JACKPOT!!...
My 70-something parents have their pension through AIG.
Ouch. That fucking sucks.
I wish Palin would start scaring the catholics. at least around here they're so single issue driven.
I didn't realize we lived so close.
Michigan
Could someone please translate $700 billion into real homes, cars, start-up businesses?
Let's say... the entire residential property, by current valuation, of the Miami metro area.
Roughly.
What do you MEAN my money's no good here!
$700 billion could pay for a whole league of A-Rods for 10 years.
gawd this is a last ditch effort to rape the nation while neocons still can.... obama will not allow what is being proposed now
Could someone please translate $700 billion into real homes, cars, start-up businesses?
Let's say... the entire residential property, by current valuation, of the Miami metro area.
I wonder how much Alaska would sell for?
you have not been managed to understand this
this is like the immaculate conception
santa claus is expecting your letters Noth Pole Amerika
Michigan
Diane
PA
Finally got that bad knot out of Miss Thing's fur.
Did anyone see the CBS Evening News tonight?
No. And accordingly to Nielsen, literally about 99 percent of Americans didn't see it either.
Fuck they got a good D. Go O.
"According to the study: “The McCain plan will force millions of Americans into the weakest segment of the private insurance system — the nongroup market — where cost-sharing is high, covered services are limited and people will lose access to benefits they have now.”
The net effect of the plan, the study said, “almost certainly will be to increase family costs for medical care.”
That's not a bug. It's a feature. You have to understand how the conservatives view the problems in health insurance: They think it's all because consumers are not bearing the full price of the care so they spend too much. They want all consumers to go out there and compare insurance plans carefully, to learn about coinsurance, deductibles, indemnities, group vs. staff model and so on, and then to factor in any pre-existing conditions one might have.
I wonder how much Alaska would sell for?
Ask Sarah?
obama will not allow what is being proposed now
wanna bet?
Well, my wingnut relative who is hooked on to Fox 24/7 told me that the crash is caused by Schumer and his insistence to give mortgages to poor and lazy people with no money.
You'll find that wingnut line across the internets: "this is all from giving Those People mortgages". Yeah, right.
Never mind that it was a bunch of pasty motherfuckers who came up with collateralised debt obligations at 40 to 1 leverage.
damn can't control the proles
must be those intertubes
They want all consumers to go out there and compare insurance plans carefully, to learn about coinsurance, deductibles, indemnities, group vs. staff model and so on, and then to factor in any pre-existing conditions one might have.
All consumers, apart from them.
"I wonder how much Alaska would sell for?"
it'd be a profit.
Gromit, could you and Mrs. Dr. Gromit send over a pizza?
On the way.
BTW, I admire your skills in handling difficult men, and hope that you do not have to practice them on monsieur.
P. O'Neill: Have you read Maureen Dowd's column in the NYT? I read a good bit of it but I could feel my blood pressure rapidly rising...she's bashing B/O--she couldn't find any material to go after Bush/Cheney and the repubs for getting us into the gd mess we're in now?
Well, that'll about do it. Wake Forest 12, FSU 3, 2:07 left.
How utterly humiliating.
Never mind that it was a bunch of pasty motherfuckers who came up with collateralised debt obligations at 40 to 1 leverage.
pseudonymous in nc
The leveraging should be outlawed.
Alaska is worth 20% of the United States total value.
--S. Palin (200
{{{Sallyh}}}
How's by you?
No. And accordingly to Nielsen, literally about 99 percent of Americans didn't see it either.
stinky | 09.20.08 - 10:24 pm | #
Thank you Jeebus.... How on earth they can call that news is beyond me.
FAAAAK!
I had to reboot.
I've been away for five whole minutes!
.
"Never mind that it was a bunch of pasty motherfuckers who came up with collateralised debt obligations at 40 to 1 leverage."
stupid white men, as Michael Moore once said
Hecate, how many offerings will you have to place before Miss Thing to obtain forgiveness?
Happy 9-20-70!
http://www.archive.org/details/
g...7583.sbeok.shnf
One of the top ten, easy .... wind.
I wish Palin would start scaring the catholics. at least around here they're so single issue driven.
nth-gen Irish/Italian/Polish, I take it?
They're weird.
aangus, tired but doing well. Et vous?
$700 billion would pay for health care.
------------------------
Let's just say that dream is now fucking dead. No matter what happens.
smalfish
Not necessarily, we may have to delay completion of the ‘Death Star’ for a year or so – but what the hell, Cheney’s got enough money and enough greed to live another 50 ...
Pound them with the run baby. Looking at you Wes.
Alaska is worth 20% of the United States total value.
So about 150 Billion?
I wish Palin would start scaring the catholics. at least around here they're so single issue driven.
Babe,
Nothing scares Catholics. I've been to Catholic school. My second grade teacher was, I am not making this up, Sister Tarsissius, named for St. Paul. What the fuck am I going to be scared of after that?
Only thing scares Catholics are laws taxing bingo takes.
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ Sallyh! ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
(that's what I was trying to say before I had to reboot)
.
It never occurred to me to borrow money and then invest it in a risky deal.
Common sense intervened.
"The leveraging should be outlawed."
but that would mean regulation
EEK!! (clutches pearls, faints)
"Nothing scares Catholics."
except nuns
wanna bet?
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator | 09.20.08 - 10:25 pm | #
--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Please allow me my allusions...... I am voting for the guy... and he hasn't jumped on the bandwagon just yet...
A petty thief trying to grab my mom's purse at the mall would get more time than these people. And that's just way, way wrong.
stinky
The Rich get richer and the poor get prison. Didn't you know that?
bad time to sell Alaska
sell those tangibles at cyclical highs
study those chart, the dude will abide
If leveraging is outlawed, only outlaws will leverage.
{{{Jeffraham, m'love! Curly! Larry Elvis!}}}
Hecate, how many offerings will you have to place before Miss Thing to obtain forgiveness?
She's oddly happy to have it gone. She has no idea that the v-e-t is coming next week. Heh.
We shouldn't properly call it a bailout, nor an RTC.
Let's call it the Securitized Housing Investment Trust.
The acronymn is apropo.
Only thing scares Catholics are laws taxing bingo takes.
*snort*
Pregnant teenagers?
Tres bien, merci.
It never occurred to me to borrow money and then invest it in a risky deal.
You never bought a car?
Finally got that bad knot out of Miss Thing's fur.
Good. Haz she considered a buzz cut?
Wow.
4 more months for the Cheney administration to fuck us over some more, again, I mean, still.
Bend over and lube up because you know it's coming.
The whole problem stems from the maldistribution of wealth. The fucking bankers had to come up with ways to still sell shit to folks who simply didn't have the fucking money. So, they deregulated everything and allowed these assholes to keep the economy humming by selling stuff to those who couldn't afford it. If the working class had been making the kind of income they made in the 60's they wouldn't have had to play these fucking games to keep the wheels turning.
Fuckers.
You never bought a car?
smalfish
Yes but not 40 of them at one time.
Howie Mandel | 09.20.08 - 10:16 pm | #
The draconian prison sentences for the Bush Crime Family and their pals on Wall Street make perfect sense, but they don't go far enough.
You forgot about the confiscation of assets -- the family apartment on Park Avenue, the loft in SoHo, the house in the Hamptons, the beach house on Martha's Vinyard or Nantucket, the ski chalet at Stowe or Aspen, the trust funds, stock and bond portfolios, gold, luxury cars, the Gulfstream jet, yacht, sail boat, estate jewelry, and cash.
Go after the assets, sell them at auction, and use that money to pay back small investors, pension funds, and the Treasury.
Now, that's a plan I could support.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4 more months for the Cheney administration to fuck us over some more, again, I mean, still.
Bend over and lube up because you know it's coming.
Mr French
And people give me shit about calling it the "Bush crime syndicate."
You need more evidence?
If leveraging is outlawed, only outlaws will leverage.
Sinf, awaiting knee surgery | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:29 pm |
Coke.
Hecate, now that's gonna cost you
Cars are not investments.
LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0...h?
v=04hBc8NsQXA
Could someone please translate $700 billion into real homes, cars, start-up businesses?
The FY 2009 budget for Head Start is about $7 billion. Which is, incidentally, not enough.
Oh, what's one more interception between friends?
That makes SEVEN turnovers by the Seminoles. SEVEN.
Fuck.
Arthur J GWPDA!!!
Would you care for a pastrami reuben? Because grandmere is too tired to put together anything else.
And people give me shit about calling it the "Bush crime syndicate."
I, for one, would never do that.
Because you're right.
That makes SEVEN turnovers by the Seminoles. SEVEN.
Fuck.
Sinf, awaiting knee surgery
Sounds like they're running a bakery.
I'm fixin' spaghetti.
.
Cars are not investments.
Collateral, yes. Investments, no.
Cars are not investments.
I disagree. They're investments of lifestyle. I own two trucks. Both risky investments in my business.
This here's a story about Sarah the Bircher...
$700Bn would take us to...Mars, bitches!
And back again...
I will be constantly punished for not buying a house that I couldn't afford.
I didn't get in over my head with a risky loan. But now I have to pay the price of the people who DID? WTF?
Oh and buy the way with this 700 B to the bankers I think that the medical people will see a chance to keep out of Universal Health care. "Government already has it's hands full and is in debt, it can't afford to provide Universal Health care. Maybe later, when we have better economic times..."
If leveraging is outlawed, only outlaws will leverage.
Sinf, awaiting knee surgery | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:29 pm |
Coke.
Moose-toque | 09.20.08 - 10:31 pm | #
See, that's the real fucking problem. It's like a tax on smart. Got it.
And people give me shit about calling it the "Bush crime syndicate."
Bless you, Mike Malloy.
Okay, it's kneel-down. Game over.
I'm out for a bit. Catch you patriotz laterz.
They're investments of lifestyle. I own two trucks. Both risky investments in my business.
smalfish | 09.20.08 - 10:33 pm | #
and without them, do you even have a business?
Would you care for a pastrami reuben? Because grandmere is too tired to put together anything else.
'Enkew, no. I've just finished a very nice roast chicken. Can I offer you another lemon soda?
Finally got that bad knot out of Miss Thing's fur. - Hecate
Make the donation appointment with which blood center?
Fuck.
Sinf, awaiting knee surgery
Sorry Sinf. Have you taken your pill for this evening? Just curious.
Smalfish, but you'd be unable to do your job without your trucks.
Arthur J, I would adore one.
Has anyone ever told you what a gentleman you are?
Hell, I'm all against stupid, every which way. Outlawing smart is just stupid, Dude.
and without them, do you even have a business?
Nope. When I first started out, the first thing I bought was a pick up.
I think that the acronym is the main thing:
SHIT
TURD
YTF
LMFAO
TEOTWAWKI
BUSH=Big Usurious Shitpile Hangover
Have y'all seen Les Misbarack?
http://miaculpa.blogspot.com/200...opera-
fans.html
I will be constantly punished for not buying a house that I couldn't afford.
I didn't get in over my head with a risky loan. But now I have to pay the price of the people who DID? WTF?
For what it's worth: I salute you.
The thing about "conservatism", as Sinf has suggested, is it isn't about self interest. It's about selfishness. These are not the same thing.
Unfortunately, most "conservatives" do not have the critical thinking skills to understand that their philosophy is not in their own long term self interest. They think only of their insatiable desire to gratify themselves short term. Their philosophy will eventually lead to the very revolution they fear.
Bismarck was a conservative with a brain who understood that in order to maintain the social order you need to recognize that change can be guided, or it can be unguided, but it is inevitable. Not so modern American "conservatives" who don't realize that the economic system they love will create change that will affect them one way or another.
Invariably these idiots stumble down the path that puts their necks in nooses.
I think I need to go hang out with Cylons, nao!
♥
Cars are not investments.
Jay Leno is going to be pissed ... I mean, more so ...
Has anyone ever told you what a gentleman you are?
Too kind. Bartender! Don't forget the cherry and the little paper umbrella!
My sentiment seems to be leaning to:
You do this bailout, I don't vote... I drop out.
Invariably these idiots stumble down the path that puts their necks in nooses.
Apprentice to Darth Holden | 09.20.08 - 10:36 pm | #
Never soon enough, unfortunately.
I've about reached the limits of outrage:
House Republican staffers met with roughly 15 lobbyists Friday afternoon, whose message to lawmakers was clear: Don't load the legislation up with provisions not directly related to the crisis, or regulatory measures the industry has long opposed.
"We're opposed to adding provisions that will affect [or] undermine the deal substantively," said Scott Talbott, senior vice president of government affairs at the Financial Services Roundtable, whose members include the nation's largest banks, securities firms and insurers.
A deal killer for the group: a proposal that would grant bankruptcy judges new powers to lower the principal, interest rate or both on a mortgage as part of a bankruptcy proceeding.
Who the hell are these guys to be lobbying anybody about anything when they're asking for $700 billion. Their efforts have gotten us into this mess and they should just be grateful for their continued ability to walk freely and breathe fresh air. Secondly, deal killer? Really? They're gonna issue statements about killing the deal that gives them.... That's like holding a gun to their own heads and saying 'stop or I'll shoot'. Don't friggin tempt me.
There is no "fixing" this shit, we're just providing these fuks with golden parachutes. We're finished, that's all there is to it, no *plan* will stop the meltdown. Think about it: one bank, JP Morgan Chase, is holding derivatives (leveraged 74 to 1) of 91.7 TRILLION DOLLARS. That's just one bank, add up all of this shit from all of the banks that they've been gaming us with and you'll feel like you were smacked in the forehead with ten pound mallet.
This isn't going to end well. In fact, it's going to end very badly. Invest in shotguns and canned food, you'll thank me later.
And people give me shit about calling it the "Bush crime syndicate."
I was thinking again today about the Bush abministration as an 8-year Mafia bustout operation, and the AIG bailout as one last container-load of plumbing fixtures for the road, as they pack their briefcases, and prepare to torch the store and hightail it out the back......
Go after the assets, sell them at auction, and use that money to pay back small investors, pension funds, and the Treasury.
Now, that's a plan I could support.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sarah B.
No, no, no. That's only for victimless crimes, you see? Like illegal drugs, illegal gambling and illegal prostitution. State sanctioned theft by speculators and corporate con men in the free market is usually met with a wink and a nod and a slap on the wrist. Ben Franklin characterized commerce as "generally cheating" and wrote bitterly of its corrupting and debilitating effects but he was a commie.
Arthur, you rememebered how much I love the little cocktail umbrellas!
Truly, you are a prince.
My sentiment seems to be leaning to:
You do this bailout, I don't vote... I drop out.
I agree. I'm wondering why work?
The Russians have foreclosed on Alaska. Next thing you know the people in Honolulu will be speaking Japanese.
"obama will not allow what is being proposed now"
wanna bet?
Pragmatically speaking, I don't see what Obama would have to lose by opposing the Billionaire Bailout Bill with, at the very least, a fiery speech on the Senate floor. In fact, I can only see gains for him, both short-term and long-term.
I see lots of downside to going along with it.
Oh and buy the way with this 700 B to the bankers I think that the medical people will see a chance to keep out of Universal Health care. "Government already has it's hands full and is in debt, it can't afford to provide Universal Health care. Maybe later, when we have better economic times..."
spoc ko Bankster-American | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:34 pm | #
I think you may be on to something.
My sentiment seems to be leaning to:
You do this bailout, I don't vote... I drop out.
racymind, at work | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:37 pm |
Yup.
And that's how it works.
I smell a turdblossom.
Think about it: one bank, JP Morgan Chase, is holding derivatives (leveraged 74 to 1) of 91.7 TRILLION DOLLARS.
74 to 1. And they thought it'd be ok because..
Cars are not investments.
Jay Leno is going to be pissed ... I mean, more so ...
focus, enough | 09.20.08 - 10:37 pm | #
does he collect as investment income, or because he likes cars?
Either way, purchasing your one daily driver to get to work and the like is investing in your life, not in the car, which almost always depreciates immediately and constantly.
Some day, Sallyh, we shall dance again.
Orange Tom,
I guess it isn't too wise to move my accounts (small though they are) over to Chase?
The Democrats need to make the term "upside participation" understood by every single member of the MCM and every single voter. No upside participation by the taxpayer, no deal. It needs to become a mantra.
And that's how it works.
I smell a turdblossom.
Rove's a genius!!!
Jesus, are we still on that fucking bullshit? And if it's all part of his "master plan," WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING ALONG WITH IT???
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies." ~ Thomas Jefferson
Think about it: one bank, JP Morgan Chase, is holding derivatives (leveraged 74 to 1) of 91.7 TRILLION DOLLARS.
This has been rattling around my head all day with no voice to let it out.
Thanks.
A deal killer for the group: a proposal that would grant bankruptcy judges new powers to lower the principal, interest rate or both on a mortgage as part of a bankruptcy proceeding.
I don't normally say things like this, but can't we just line these fuckers up against a wall and do what comes naturally?
Judge Judy on Mortgage Court. Televise the revolution.
Man, that Jay Leno commercial when he was eating Dortios. Damn...what fuckin comedic genius. (sarcasm)
Jesus, are we still on that fucking bullshit? And if it's all part of his "master plan," WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING ALONG WITH IT???
Thanks brother.
"Some day, Sallyh, we shall dance again."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K...h?
v=K2eE9H7Nzww
Arthur J, some night, when I am not so exhausted, and Two Legs lets you use the convertible, we shall salsa all night long.
Only Watertiger can tango.
"Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"You can steal more money with a briefcase than a gun." -Vito Corleone
Pragmatically speaking, I don't see what Obama would have to lose by opposing the Billionaire Bailout Bill with, at the very least, a fiery speech on the Senate floor. In fact, I can only see gains for him, both short-term and long-term.
I see lots of downside to going along with it.
dave™© | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:39 pm | #
Oh man going along with this will hamstring him for sure when he gets into office.... and he will get into office... he has too.... I am so glad he doesn't panic like me.
A deal killer for the group: a proposal that would grant bankruptcy
judges new powers to lower the principal, interest rate or both on a
mortgage as part of a bankruptcy proceeding.
Then, I would recommend that this become a fundamental element of the deal. Or did the lobbyists imagine they would really get to ride for free?
Oh. Right.
Dean Baker at Talking Points has some good ideas.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo...s_for_a_b/
#more
Although I'm sure there are alot of dealkillers that the kids at the Financial Services Roundtable won't like much. I sure would like to see someone call the bluff of those little bastards. Won't happen, but I'd like to see it.
Paulson's figured it out.
1. Borrow 700 Billion
2. Buy the near worthless securities.
3. Get an advance on the securites, marked to market value.
4. Invest the advance in pog futures. They gotta make a comeback.
Phillies win
Mets lose
eh. something good today
Only Watertiger can tango.
i'll try v hard to keep up
been dancing for about an hr now
This isn't going to end well. In fact, it's going to end very badly. Invest in shotguns and canned food, you'll thank me later.
Antibiotics, if you can get them. Aspirin, gold, batteries of all kinds, seeds.
Should have rioted in 2000 when it would have made a difference.
Once again, it'll be Lucy with the football... Dems will cave. They've GOT to kick that thing.
This is a poison pill.
Vote against it and the market tanks (it will anyway...but its the Dems fault now).
Vote for it...
Call me a pessimist.
Or tell me how we avoid this.
They're doing it because they've figured out that McCain is toast.
Uncle Blodge, how goes the back and leg?
I don't normally say things like this, but can't we just line these fuckers up against a wall and do what comes naturally?
Careful, that's the sort of thing that got Woody G banned.
eh. something good today
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher
I had such hope for today.....
but today is not ending well.
Oh man going along with this will hamstring him for sure when he gets into office.... and he will get into office... he has too.... I am so glad he doesn't panic like me.
Earlier today, chicago dyke said, in talking with some of her local Obama people, that they were still in the "planning" stages of how exactly to respond to the BBB, and that phone calls to national HQ expressing your opinion on the matter might be a good little "nudge" for them.
Though I'm hoping they're smart enough to figure out the proper response by now.
Echidne: yup. And all that due diligence, perhaps, done while waiting to be seen in an ER, with a temperature of 102 in agonizing pain with, say, a perforated diverticulum, or watching your three year old child seize, or wishing your mother could move her right arm, which she could have done perfectly well an hour ago.
Fact is, the insurance companies' first loyalty is to their stockholders, and not their policyholders. The assumption that the interests of these two groups are identical is, to say the least, disingenuous...
Can't we just sell Alaska to the Russians? It ought to be worth a trillion or two.
Careful, that's the sort of thing that got Woody G banned.
He got banned for suggesting people let their dogs piss on people lined up at a wall?
Come over and play My Little Boat with me (by Imo Schmortz, no joke)
"but today is not ending well."
I got the Phillies
that's about it
Speaking of trucks, I saw that the local Dodge place is offloading Rams at under $10k if you finance with them. At 9mpg city, 12 hwy, you don't need to ask why.
(My brother-in-law has been trying to sell his for a year. No takers.)
I guess it isn't too wise to move my accounts (small though they are) over to Chase?
This may sound like a joke (I assure you it isn't) but any dollar-base investment (as a bank account ultimately is) will soon result in the loss of that investment, regardless of what bank you gamble on. The dollar is going to vaporize in hyper-inflation, so you'd be smart to put your savings into tangibles, like gold, silver, food, tools, anything that will have practical value when the dollar is being carted around by the wheelbarrow load.
look to the skies!
Antibiotics, if you can get them.
Anyone up for a trip to Tijuana?
I especially like this idea of Bakers:
5) The government can set whatever conditions it wants on participating in the reverse auctions. One of the conditions it should set is that executive compensation be severely constrained at any financial firm that participates. For example, it can set an absolute limit of $2 million in total compensation for any executive at any firm that takes parts in the reverse auction.
Screw up, use the auction, take a big ole paycut. Just like in the real world. I can hear the moans from the Roundtable already. Okay, we'll just keep the $700 billion. Go play in traffic.
I gotta go to bed.
Pound it down, baby. Da Run.
He got banned for suggesting people let their dogs piss on people lined up at a wall?
He didn't put it quite that way...
I saw that the local Dodge place is offloading Rams at under $10k if you finance with them
Holy shit.
No, HOLY SHIT!
Can't we just sell Alaska to the Russians? It ought to be worth a trillion or two.
therealhellkitty
Please don't.
Quick! Everybody start e-mailing the Nigerians!
Obama can come out against this, as currently structured, by talking about responsibility. He's already talking about how government is there to help you when you hit hard times through no fault of your own. It's not there to reward people who fuck up on a massive scale.
Can't we just sell Alaska to the Russians? It ought to be worth a trillion or two.
I'm Putin, you're paying me the trillion any time between now and Nov. 5th.
Just sayin'.
Either way, purchasing your one daily driver to get to work and the like is investing in your life, not in the car, which almost always depreciates immediately and constantly. -ronjazz
'almost' - recently did an estate plan for a client 'collector' his hobbies appraised at $250k+ for 12 restored classics ... on paper
"Please don't."
why not?
He didn't put it quite that way...
Well, I do think differently...
Feral Liberal --
I made a similar comment once that high-jacked the thread -- Atrios didn't ban me, but deleted the post (but the rest of the thread survived)
But one does feel that way -- crooks are running the country -- I knew that would happen -- I just didn't realize how incompetent they were (except they do seem to have killed universal health care) -- make the billionaires who benefited from the Bush crime wave forfeit everything they own -- everything -- put them on the streets homeless -- the good looking ones can become street walkers -- let them know what it means to be poor!
Top Ramen for the CEOs!
the local Dodge place is offloading Rams at under $10k if you finance with them. At 9mpg city, 12 hwy, you don't need to ask why.
We don't hear much about that "hemi" thing anymore, do we?
Can't we just sell Alaska to the Russians? It ought to be worth a trillion or two.
therealhellkitty | 09.20.08 - 10:46 pm | #
Hmmm, who really owns Alaska, Dude.
so you'd be smart to put your savings into tangibles, like gold, silver, food, tools, anything that will have practical value when the dollar is being carted around by the wheelbarrow load.
I've got my eye on a 700 chipping hammer. You're giving me an excuse to get it?
why not?
Uncle Blodge, Urban Teacher
Because then I could look out MY window and see Russia. Doan Want.
s
he
ets.
Careful, that's the sort of thing that got Woody G banned.
No need to execute them, though better people have suffered worse fates for smaller crimes.
I'd settle for hosing them down with 500,000 gallons of raw sewage at 300psi.
'almost' - recently did an estate plan for a client 'collector' his hobbies appraised at $250k+ for 12 restored classics ... on paper
focus, enough | 09.20.08 - 10:49 pm | #
Each, or the whole bunch?
How many Dodge Omnis, Ford Tauruses, Toyota Camrys in that group?
Put on your White Sheet, Mama, 'cause we're going out tonight. - Ron Fournier
Tour de force in injecting racism into the debate as an ok thing.
Earlier today, chicago dyke said, in talking with some of her local Obama people, that they were still in the "planning" stages of how exactly to respond to the BBB, and that phone calls to national HQ expressing your opinion on the matter might be a good little "nudge" for them.
Though I'm hoping they're smart enough to figure out the proper response by now.
dave™© | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:46 pm | #
What gets me is how Obama's reasoned responses are rarely covered in the news when make them.
Jefferson had no problem with it when he wanted to by that patch of land from the French, of course.
We may say with truth and meaning that governments are more or less republican, as they have more or less of the element of popular election and control in their composition; and believing, as I do, that the mass of the citizens is the safest depository of their own rights, and especially, that the evils flowing from the duperies of the people are less injurious than those from the egoism of their agents, I am a friend to that composition of government which has in it the most of this ingredient. And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
Letter to John Taylor (28 May 1816) ME 15:23
Prior!
Woody is doing well, btw, and sends his greetings to all the old-timers here.
It's not there to reward people who fuck up on a massive scale.
It's definitely not there for people who fuck up on purpose anticipating that they'll be labeled "too big to fail" and then get a get out of jail and financial ruin free card.
But one does feel that way -- crooks are running the country -- I knew that would happen -- I just didn't realize how incompetent they were (except they do seem to have killed universal health care) -- make the billionaires who benefited from the Bush crime wave forfeit everything they own -- everything -- put them on the streets homeless -- the good looking ones can become street walkers -- let them know what it means to be poor!
Prior Aelred | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:49 pm | #
Economist Duncan Black has a very small penis. Dude, we all knew that.
smalfish: that's the headline deal, so you have to assume they'll force you into a stupid APR to make back some money.
That kind of up-front pricing kills the used market, though. And you have to assume that they have to clear the lot before the new models come in, so that those new models can sit on the lot for a year.
Tour de force in injecting racism into the debate as an ok thing.
Shorter Fournier: hey, how about we commission a poll to see if people hold racist stereotypes?
How about we commission a poll to see if people think Ron Fournier fucks goats?
You motherfuckers would all be rich if Duncan Motherfucking Black was prescient.
Isn't it time for the aliens to come and rescue us? I mean we are the US of A. We deserve to be saved.
They will probably want to regulate us though.
"You human's wanted to bail out the people who ripped you off? You aren't smart enough to govern yourselves."
Kang 08!
We don't hear much about that "hemi" thing anymore, do we?
Attaturk's fez has one. And AC.
Neponset | 09.20.08 - 10:38 pm
Fucking A!
-
Sarah Palin will be meeting this coming week with Afghan President Hamid Karzai
Anon, TCM addict | 09.20.08 - 10:01 pm | #
Break out the Unocal puppet
just make sure your door hasn't been marked tomorrow morning
Echidne | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 10:25 pm | #
This is what McCain and the GOPers think of health care for the little people:
Al Hubbard, architect of the Bush-cum-McCain health plan, compares Americans' use of the health care system to shoppers who indiscriminately buy caviar while someone else foots the bill:
Whining Americans Choose Caviar Health Care
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
le...e_b_113767.html
Hubbard, former assistant to the president for economic policy, spoke at a Thursday event at the Center for American Progress Action Fund. He blamed patients for driving up health care costs because insurance insulated them from the real costs of treatment.
He suggested that American consumers would run similarly amok in a world where employers provided "food insurance" instead of health insurance. "Pretty soon you would start buying caviar, the most expensive steak, and you would start buying more than you needed," he said.
McCain regards cancer treatment as cavier and chronic disease management for diabetes or high-blood pressure or heart-related issues or asthma as filet mignon -- for those greedy little people run amok.
High quality care is fine -- even preferable -- for the rich, of course, because they are entitled to cavier and filet mignon...and throw in some Dom Pérignon or Cristal and a good bottle (or two) of Bordeaux while you're at it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"you'll all be millionaires"-Hank Paulson
in basis points
daddy paulson
I find it interesting that some Republicans (see Larry Kudlow) are blaming "poor" Americans for this financial crisis. According to Republicans the poor Americans knew better than to take loans that they could not afford.
I really hope they keep up this argument. As you know the underwriters of the loans have zero responsibility.
but they had flagpins on their lapels! (underwriters of the loans)
daddy paulson
irreverent | 09.20.08 - 11:11 pm | #
Don't you mean crack-daddy paulson?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i'm an american, i all gulp up
Sarah: Hubbard's words should be hung around McCain's neck and tattooed on his forehead.
In fact, i'd donate to the McCain campaign, if my dollars went to Hubbard speaking thus, criss-crossing this great land in support of, and clearly identifying these ideas with, the McCain ticket.
Hubbard should especially go to support groups of caregivers for Alzheimer's patients. Fertile ground there for GOP seedlings to flower in, you bet...
Atrios, dude -- LINK THE VID:
http://www.kossan.se/roliga-
film...nts_gnomes_.htm
I said this was potential trouble for a number of other reasons, more on the regulatory side than the financial side.
Bottom line: Congressional Dems are silent as lambs to the slaughter about new regulatory statutes, and new regulatory mandates.
Passive Pelosi™ and Land-Swap Harry Reid, I’ll give no more than 5 percent odds of them standing up to Paulson-Bermanke.
Bottom line is that this is a good reason to do three things:
1. Vote Green instead of continuing to support the duopoly;
2. Push for public financing of Congressional campaigns, including with third-party provisions;
3. Work on amending the body of the constitution to make us into a parliamentary government, as part of improving accountability.
Call me an idealist.
While the corporate elitist work hard at keeping their golden parachutes, the hard-working working-class American taxpayer gets the shaft.
Isn't this what our nation's founders rebelled against in the Revolutionary War? With the British aristocracy raising taxes and financially raping the American colonists, with the British aristocrats only interested in their own "golden parachutes," screw the American colonists, leaving them the shaft? With the hard-working American colonists having no representation in the British parliament?
The question is: Do hard-working working-class American taxpayers have any "representation" remaining in our own legislative branch of government?
We already know that no one "represents" hard-working working-class American citizens in the executive branch, but do we still have any representation in our own democratically elected Congress?
We'll all know shortly, or we'll all end up getting the shaft, because everyone know by now that conservative Republicans just don't believe in "golden parachutes" for anyone but their crony corporatist pals.
Will Democrats (and more moderate Republicans) "blink"?
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