We all know what happens when you mess up in the dog eat dog world of big business -- you get retention awards (that's because your stock options aren't worth anything). The Post reports that Circuit City's executive vice-presidents will get retention awards of $1 million each. That's 35 years worth of pay for one of sales clerks who earned $14 an hour. And that's just the bonus.
CEO pay is a truly fucked up thing. If these people were so fucking valuable, they'd be dripping with all sorts of talents that were ultra rare in humans.
But most of the time it's not the case. Most of the time they are just slightly more gaping than the average asshole.
Stunt Woman |
12.22.07 - 1:33 pm | #
LONDON, England (AP) -- Tony Blair, who often kept his religious views private while serving as Britain's prime minister, has converted to Catholicism, officials said Saturday.
Get the picture of him with pop ratzo on CNN.com
leibniz |
12.22.07 - 1:33 pm | #
Missed the last thread, but there were stories in the British press a few years ago about graduates who were retraining as plumbers and Tube drivers.
(The corollary, though, is the number of people in essential services -- nurses, teachers, firefighters -- whose wages don't keep pace with house prices, and end up having to make long commutes to work in areas they could never afford to live. I'll also wag the finger at happy move-to-the-mountains retirees who turn create demand for health services but price out the people providing them.)
One element that doesn't get mentioned -- though Dean Baker hints at it -- is the deeply inefficient professional cartel system. You acquire a mortgage's worth of debt to get a postgraduate qualification, and then go through the rigmarole of having to get certified with the state board. That fucks up mobility.
On the general point, undergraduate education in the US is a loss-leader for the postgrad qualifications that are increasingly needed, as the college degree becomes a signifier, rather than a qualifier.
pseudonymous in nc |
12.22.07 - 1:35 pm | #
Hopefull, we left the mouthbreathers downstairs
Terry C - Democratic Bitch |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:35 pm | #
And I predicted Blair converting a long time ago. Judging from the timetable, he may well have started the formal process before he stepped down.
I'm sure that Thers and Molly Ivors will say (or have said) all that needs to be said about bloody converts.
pseudonymous in nc |
12.22.07 - 1:36 pm | #
He's gone more in to having the beginning courses have books specialized for Sinclair, so you can't get them from any library (even Sinclair's library doesn't have them).
The company is now losing money and its share price is down more than 75 percent from its value earlier this year.
Stockholders and sales clerks take the hit while the execs make off with the cash. Yes, grand theft does look like an attractive line of work indeed.
sidhra, snow princess ص& |
12.22.07 - 1:37 pm | #
I have to clean the house for company, me and my big mouth. "Come over on Xmas Eve...."
It'd be easier to burn the place down.
Jim, Collieresque |
12.22.07 - 1:38 pm | #
"So this year, I'll make a little over $30,000. It's not been a great year."
that's quite a drop, but it would be a huge step up for me. if you got a job, health bennies and a roof, count yer blessings..
jdw |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:38 pm | #
And I predicted Blair converting a long time ago.
pseudonymous in nc
Yes, you did
Terry C - Democratic Bitch |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:38 pm | #
this story proves how strong the economy is. why, just look at the average bonus that circuit city employees got this year!
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:38 pm | #
NO BUTT PUNS!
We're on the backside of that.
sidhra, snow princess ص& |
12.22.07 - 1:38 pm | #
Jeff, you decided not to put lights on the kittehs this year?
Cheers to all in Prestonian Estates! Hope all ten footsies stay warm this Christmas.
Lenore |
12.22.07 - 1:39 pm | #
At the risk of offering attention to one who deserves none whatsoever, That bore Boortz went on a typical rant yesterday. He was bitching about California backing off the plan to "identify" Moslem communities. He said that if we can identify pedophiles in our communities, why not Moslems. Just to make sure he wasn't misunderstood, he added that he thought they were equally bad.
Why does he have access to our airwaves?
bill |
12.22.07 - 1:39 pm | #
We even have a homeland security specialization with our law enforcement major.
And we're developing green engineering as a major, too.
Dr. Molly Ivors | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 1:29 pm
I'll have to check and see if Sinclair will go that route, it would be smart to do so.
Buckeye, Dealer of Rare Coins |
12.22.07 - 1:39 pm | #
yeah, those puns are now in the anals of eschaton history.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:41 pm | #
this story proves how strong the economy is. why, just look at the average bonus that circuit city employees got this year!
dirk gently, sociopathetic
Check the dumpster out back. Might be some Wii games "accidentally" discarded.
Roadmaster, Milwaukee Office |
12.22.07 - 1:41 pm | #
Jeeze, Bill, I was doing sorta OK and you had to bring up B**rtz. He's polluted Atlanta with drivel for decades.
Lenore |
12.22.07 - 1:42 pm | #
shareholder lawsuits are bad!
Culture of TrÜth |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:42 pm | #
He said that if we can identify pedophiles in our communities, why not Moslems.
what color star does he want them to wear?
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:42 pm | #
this story proves how strong the economy is. why, just look at the average bonus that circuit city employees got this year!
dirk gently, sociopathetic
The US is inching along the road to rendering the middle and lower classes totally impoverished and expendable, a road which has already been followed by the many nations which have been forced to knuckle under to Milton Friedman's "Chicago School" model, as Naomi Klein brilliantly documents in "The Shock Doctrine."
So much wealth is generated for the upper tiers, who are the decision-makers, that the process proceeds briskly along.
SteveLG |
12.22.07 - 1:43 pm | #
what color star does he want them to wear?
Green crescent moon, I should think.
sidhra, snow princess ص& |
12.22.07 - 1:43 pm | #
Their product pricing is a bit wonky lately.
I have been shopping for a new flat screen. The model I am eyeballing, depending on the day and even time of day is 600 to 900 dollars more than their competitors.
EkCenTriK |
12.22.07 - 1:43 pm | #
So much wealth is generated for the upper tiers, who are the decision-makers, that the process proceeds briskly along.
SteveLG | 12.22.07 - 1:43 pm | #
right up until bastille day.
that usually stops it dead for a while.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:44 pm | #
if you got a job, health bennies and a roof, count yer blessings..
jdw
I do well to keep reminding myself of this.
SteveLG |
12.22.07 - 1:44 pm | #
He said that if we can identify pedophiles in our communities,
that usually stops it dead for a while.
dirk gently, sociopathetic
I just started on that chapter.
SteveLG |
12.22.07 - 1:45 pm | #
Green crescent moon, I should think.
sidhra, snow princess ص& | 12.22.07 - 1:43 pm | #
iirc, it's yellow moons. blue stars. green clovers.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:45 pm | #
jdw: if you got a job, health bennies and a roof, count yer blessings..
Don't be sad 'cause
Two out of three ain't bad
.
Jeffraham Prestonian |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:45 pm | #
Re: "Retention bonuses", it's becoming more and more obvious that executives cannot police themselves at all, they are like kids in candystores with absolutely no adult supervision and a bottomless line of credit.
Anyone who cares how corrosive this is is dismissed as some sort of communist. Look what happens to Krugman. I mean, in the case of Circuit City, beancounter fucktardedness is CELEBRATED. Baker's point...that people shop in electronics stores instead of on the 'Net because they're looking for expertise is a very good one. Eliminating expertise because it costs more is fucktarded, but when you're completely laser focused in on a fucking spreadsheet (and your own personal bank account) you can't see that.
I'm becoming more and more concerned that the only way to correct this is radical surgery; putting these assholes on tumbrels might deter such obviously bad behavior.
Apprentice to Darth Holden |
12.22.07 - 1:47 pm | #
Plumbers work the pipe and have the best crack!
Ron Pauliac |
12.22.07 - 1:48 pm | #
iirc, it's yellow moons. ...
There is a town in North Ontario
sidhra, snow princess ص& |
12.22.07 - 1:48 pm | #
"Don't be sad 'cause
Two out of three ain't bad"
haha..i'm still jonesing for the health bennies...
jdw |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:48 pm | #
iirc, it's yellow moons. blue stars. green clovers.
dirk gently, sociopathetic
When they added the rainbow whatzits, it provided incontrovertable proof that Lucky the Leprechaun is GHAIIIII.
Roadmaster, Milwaukee Office |
12.22.07 - 1:49 pm | #
Plumbers work the pipe and have the best crack!
Ron Pauliac | 12.22.07 - 1:48 pm | #
so, if you can't afford to send your kid through college, rear a plumber!
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:49 pm | #
The fact that the ultra rich have NO contact with the vast majority of society - and are further sheltering themselves as their accounts swell - fuels the apathy and ignorance.
Reality check time. (When I say "check," I'm thinking more hockey than payday...)
Roadmaster, Milwaukee Office |
12.22.07 - 1:51 pm | #
Why does he have access to our airwaves?
bill
Because his mindset is that of the owners of the radio stations, etc.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:51 pm | #
CEOs as a class of "worker" really needs to be rethought. It seems to me that many of the problems we are experiencing can drill right on up to that position in any given business. A trend I have seen over the years is a move away from the upper and middle management making decisions based on experience, situation and knowledge to one in which the CEO solely dictates and everyone else implements. The CEO then becomes the effective and exclusive resource for all actions in the business.
EkCenTriK |
12.22.07 - 1:52 pm | #
Thanks, ever serendipitous wÒÓ†. It's good to see them birdies again.
Lenore |
12.22.07 - 1:52 pm | #
iirc, it's yellow moons. blue stars. green clovers.
dirk gently, sociopathetic
Why do we pay executives more? A good analogy is in school systems. You pay some education PhD a quarter of a million dollars to run a school district when you could use that money on books and teachers. Why? Are teachers less valuable than school administrators? Do we feel our kids are better educated because teachers are burdened by people who don't want to teach?
leibniz |
12.22.07 - 1:53 pm | #
What a day, I'll have pics for ya after dinner.
Barry from AK Traben-Trarbach |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:53 pm | #
Time to raise taxes on the rich.
I had an excellent time reading the last thread.
mer |
12.22.07 - 1:53 pm | #
Rectum? Why, it nearly killed him!
Chris Tucker |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:54 pm | #
Hep me! Hep me! I been slantyized!
Chris Tucker |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:55 pm | #
Rectum? Why, it nearly killed him!
That was not our intestine.
leibniz |
12.22.07 - 1:55 pm | #
CEOs seem to be spending a lot of time on each others boards making sure cash flows freely into their bank accounts to the detriment of their companies and the general economy. Jeff Skilling's in jail, but so many others should be as well.
sidhra, snow princess ص& |
12.22.07 - 1:56 pm | #
Oh, hell.
(I printed my response in invisible ink so that I cannot be accused of being a negative person)
DWD - Unelected Legislator |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:56 pm | #
I had a warp of Red Crossbills at the feeder this morning, waayyy outta their range.
1Watt, Hermit |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 1:58 pm | #
"I had a warp of Red Crossbills at the feeder this morning, waayyy outta their range."
Time for a gut check.
sidhra, snow princess ص& |
12.22.07 - 1:59 pm | #
Stock traders need their taxes raised. It's obscene what they get rewarded for doing their jobs.
A former Enron trader is now worth $1.5 billion. He is 33.
trifecta |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:00 pm | #
CEOs seem to be spending a lot of time on each others boards making sure cash flows freely into their bank accounts to the detriment of their companies and the general economy. Jeff Skilling's in jail, but so many others should be as well.
Theft on a grand scale is not theft.
It's CEO compensation.
Apprentice to Darth Holden |
12.22.07 - 2:02 pm | #
Retention Bonuses
Nice work if you can get it.
In the modern corporate world, the reward for failure is more compensation.
At least in SPECTRE, the bad guys were fed to piranhas if they failed.
Richard |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:02 pm | #
Bitchslapalicous! Greenwald solid gold.
----
Therefore, if I wanted to invoke the same manipulative tactics and verbatim phrases that Klein used in pretending to respond to what I wrote -- and I don't and won't -- that would mean that I would write self-righteous posts citing Clinton's years-long support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, her multiple actions to encourage the idea of a military attack on Iran, her refusal to repudiate many of the worst executive power abuses under Bush and similar statements from other Democratic candidates including Obama and Edwards, and then prance around saying things like:
"Klein's efforts to suggest that progressive have to choose between civil rights, imperialism and militarism, on the one hand, and choice on the other, is deeply misguided."
And:
"Unlike Ezra Klein, I'm not willing to sell the lives of millions of innocent Iranians and other Muslims or the core civil liberties of American citizens down the river."
----
Takes Klein apart with impressive well-placed collateral damage.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:02 pm | #
these puns: are just wrong
Culture of TrÜth |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:03 pm | #
There's a great chart to be drawn of which corporate executives sit on other corporate executives' remuneration committees.
The word 'circlejerk' comes to mind.
This is something I learned about years ago, when my webmonkey work involved marking up deadly dull annual reports in HTML.
pseudonymous in nc |
12.22.07 - 2:03 pm | #
Must to scoot. bbl
.
Jeffraham Prestonian |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:03 pm | #
I think I have an answer to this question, but what is it going to take to set this country right again?
therealhellkitty |
12.22.07 - 2:03 pm | #
Law of the Economic Jungle:
CEO's are the heynas that provide the food for the plutocrat lions.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:05 pm | #
god damn Pinochetnomics
jr |
12.22.07 - 2:05 pm | #
these puns: are just wrong
Culture of TrÜth
i notice you used a colon.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:05 pm | #
Takes Klein apart with impressive well-placed collateral damage.
Except that Greenwald's crush on Ron Paul really does show that he's not progressive in the slightest.
If Paul's dodgy past opinions and dodgier supporters directed their ire towards gays rather than women and non-whites, I'd like to know if he'd change his tune.
Defending the constitution is one thing; wanting it defended all the way back to 1890 is another thing entirely.
pseudonymous in nc |
12.22.07 - 2:05 pm | #
American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 3897
1Watt, Hermit |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:06 pm | #
Time for a gut check.
sidhra, snow princess ص& | 12.22.07 - 1:59 pm | #
can i just get the digest version?
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:07 pm | #
I have another (in a long line of) stupid DWD questions.
If Cindy Sheehan truly wants to make a difference, why is she running as an independent rather than running as a democrat in a primary challenge to Pelosi?
(I thought that Kos had a very good article the other day on getting the Democratic establishment's attention by running primary challenges, btw)
DWD - Unelected Legislator |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:08 pm | #
Since war began (3/19/03): 3897
Unfortunately, we've got a chance to hit 5k by election day.
Apprentice to Darth Holden |
12.22.07 - 2:08 pm | #
I had a warp of Red Crossbills at the feeder this morning, waayyy outta their range. - 1Watt
I gotta bunch of bills that are waaaayyyyy out of range of my bank account, but none from the Red Cross.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:09 pm | #
Is our executives learnin'?
George Johnston |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:14 pm | #
Cindy Sheehan is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Pelosi would be the perfect one to challenge in a Dem primary. Lose that, and you can still do a Lieberman for the General.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:14 pm | #
If you read the link, it's pretty obvious that Greenwald does NOT have a crush on Ron Paul. You're following Ezra Klein tripe prefectly.
Eine Klein, not music?
DWD - Unelected Legislator |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:14 pm | #
dirk wins
Yes, he's got this in the can.
sidhra, snow princess ص& |
12.22.07 - 2:15 pm | #
Permament detention, no less. And trials that don't follow "the rules of evidence."
These guys really have no new ideas.
Phila, Pizen Sarpint |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:18 pm | #
Late comment on the education thread:
There's no reason why you shouldn't be well educated after 4 years of a decent academic high school. But many have quite restricted course offerings, and requirements vastly outnumber options, limiting a kid's ability to develop and explore an interes of his own.
And speaking from a doc's perspective, there's every advantage to reauiring a four-year liberal course of study before entering medical school/residency, a terrific, all-consuming 7 to 9 years when you have the attention span of a fruit fly outside your study and work. You really, really want your doc to have thought about things deeper and more widely connected to human life than Grignard reagants and the Krebs cycle. Trust me on this one.
ProfWombat |
12.22.07 - 2:18 pm | #
Eine Klein, not music? - DWD
Ezra? Not even good logic.
But another one like that and you'll have to go to the princpal's office, young man.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:18 pm | #
My company is in its last throes. It has maybe 2 months left to live. It has been driven to the brink of extinction by the brutal incompetence of the executives.
Guess who got the big Christmas bonuses?
left field, 99.9% dirty hippie |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:18 pm | #
Guess who got the big Christmas bonuses? - left field
pssst! In March, we eat the rich. Pass it along.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:20 pm | #
Defending the constitution is one thing; wanting it defended all the way back to 1890 is another thing entirely.
pseudonymous in nc | 12.22.07 - 2:05 pm | #
This doesn't mean anything.
Greenwald writes, clearly, that he supports Paul's stands on civil liberties and The Glorious War. How hard is that to understand?
rootless-e |
12.22.07 - 2:20 pm | #
"You really, really want your doc to have thought about things deeper and more widely connected to human life than Grignard reagants and the Krebs cycle."
you had to remind me i spent precious dollars and time learning all that shit that means absolutely nothing to me now...
jdw |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:21 pm | #
You really, really want your doc to have thought about things deeper and more widely connected to human life than Grignard reagants and the Krebs cycle. Trust me on this one.
ProfWombat | 12.22.07 - 2:18 pm | #
Do they need to go to college for that? Oliver Sacks went to medical college directly from grammar school, as is common in the rest of the world, and he seems to have scraped up a bit of learning and humanity somewhere along the way.
rootless-e |
12.22.07 - 2:23 pm | #
Guess who got the big Christmas bonuses?
left field, 99.9% dirty hippie
you?
dirk gently, sociopathetic
You funny. I got the $25 gift certificate to Red Lobster.
left field, 99.9% dirty hippie |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:23 pm | #
all the best stuff i learned in school has nothing to do with what i do for a living.
except for math. not the formulas and tables; the login of how to work out a problem.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:23 pm | #
Greenwald writes, clearly, that he supports Paul's stands on civil liberties and The Glorious War. How hard is that to understand? - rootless-e
I'd say it was t'other way round. Paul's stands are consonant with Greenwald's beliefs, but that does not imply support, at all.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:23 pm | #
left field, do you need to start looking for a new job now, or will there be some kind of compensation after the demise?
mer |
12.22.07 - 2:24 pm | #
(Geez, my paranoia is running rampant this day. That freaky thing in the Free Press that I have mentioned twice and will not mention again has me spooked. How can a CANDIDATE for office cause a legitimate big city newspaper to change their TRUE story to a lie to support their candidacy? God damn! Mitt is going to be the nominee because whoever runs this fucking funny farm of America is dictating it be so. Paranoia strikes deep and deeper this day)
DWD - Unelected Legislator |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:24 pm | #
You funny. I got the $25 gift certificate to Red Lobster.
left field, 99.9% dirty hippie
last actual job i had, my xmas bonus was a canned ham.
of course, mrs g is a vegetarian and we don't eat meat at home. so we donated it to a homeless shelter.
which, as it turns out, was a pretty cool bonus after all.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:24 pm | #
My favorite recollection from organic chemistry is Markivnikov's Rule, which states that when you add a hydrogen halide across a carbon-carbon double bond, the hydrogen attaches itself to the carbon that already has the most hydrogens, except, of course, when it doesn't...
And not once, ever, have I ever heard Markivnikov's Rule uttered since leaving college organic chem. Not even in a nutrition fellowship where you had to know biochemistry.
ProfWombat |
12.22.07 - 2:25 pm | #
left field, do you need to start looking for a new job now, or will there be some kind of compensation after the demise?
mer | 12.22.07 - 2:24 pm | #
After the first of the year, I start looking. The company is essentially broke, and can only survive with new investment.
left field, 99.9% dirty hippie |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:25 pm | #
But Al Gore is fat, so, no worries.
res ipsa loquitur |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:27 pm | #
I'd say it was t'other way round. Paul's stands are consonant with Greenwald's beliefs, but that does not imply support, at all.
I think that, for some folks, anything less than a declaration that Paul is "batfuck insane" is "evidence" of support.
Richard |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:27 pm | #
Good luck, Left Field. I hope your Christmastide will pass well and warmly.
sidhra, snow princess ص& |
12.22.07 - 2:27 pm | #
did you let her eat cake?
dirk gently, sociopathetic | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 2:27 pm | #
fresh Tuna
but we wondered whether she deserves it since she has taken to trampling over the presents underneath the tree and trying to jump into it
Lady Moonbootica, Employed |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:28 pm | #
DWD,
Courage'. If they go with Mittster, either the dogshit's gonna get him, or his flamming underwear will. The hard core Fungelicals will never be able to hold their noses tight enough to vote for him.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:28 pm | #
"You funny. I got the $25 gift certificate to Red Lobster."
--left field, 99.9% dirty hippie
Which they probably paid $15 for if they bought a lot of them.
Funny thing about gift cards is you usually spend more than the dollar amount on the card. It's a win-win for the issuer.
mer |
12.22.07 - 2:28 pm | #
rootless: most of the world has a four-to-six year curriculum after HS to MD. Most places have more academically rigorous HS, I'd guess, though, than is the norm in America. So we're both right.
There are isolated six-year combined BA/MD programs in this country--BU, Northwestern, I think, have them--but they aren't the norm.
ProfWombat |
12.22.07 - 2:28 pm | #
I think that, for some folks, anything less than a declaration that Paul is "batfuck insane" is "evidence" of support.
Richard | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 2:27 pm | #
Absolutely. I think it is an indication of how pervasive propaganda is.
rootless-e |
12.22.07 - 2:29 pm | #
i've never had a job where there was a xmas bonus.
jdw |
one year i got $100. but that was a very small company, more like a xmas present from the owner than a bonus. which made it seem a lot nicer.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:29 pm | #
had an awful headache earlier, kind of caught up with me
i've been doing too much this week, going up to York and then going to Bath to do last minute Christmas shopping plus the whole OMG of getting a job
its all been a bit too much and its not even Christmas Day!
Lady Moonbootica, Employed |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:29 pm | #
Good luck, Left Field. I hope your Christmastide will pass well and warmly.
sidhra, snow princess ص& | 12.22.07 - 2:27 pm | #
Thx, sidhra. Rock 'n Roll will save my soul.
I may restart my consulting company. That was way more fun and rewarding than working for idiots.
left field, 99.9% dirty hippie |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:30 pm | #
My brother got a bonus this month, for training up JP Morgan's Indian employees
Lady Moonbootica, Employed |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:30 pm | #
Kiddenz. - watertiger
Jeesus, Mom. Do you have to wash me in public? They're staring at me.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:30 pm | #
And speaking from a doc's perspective, there's every advantage to reauiring a four-year liberal course of study before entering medical school/residency
ProfWombat
In the early 1900s medical school was a four year course of study. Since the 1950s the details of medical science have exploded. Today, medical school is a four year course of study.
Curious.
It begs the question "what is the essential knowledge of medicine"
Any thoughts on this?
Gimlet |
12.22.07 - 2:30 pm | #
Atrios is always asking strangers to kill him.
Douglas Watts |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:31 pm | #
"My favorite recollection from organic chemistry is Markivnikov's Rule, which states"
i'm jealous of people that have a memory that good...once i got thru the last final, i emptied my brain of that stuff.
jdw |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:31 pm | #
I think that, for some folks, anything less than a declaration that Paul is "batfuck insane" is "evidence" of support.
Richard |
hey, i agree with bob barr's defense of the 4th ammendment, but that doesn't mean i'd ever support the fucker for office.
same with ron paul wanting to end the war - although, in his case, for the wrong reasons. isolationism is not a viable foreign policy.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:31 pm | #
There are isolated six-year combined BA/MD programs in this country--BU, Northwestern, I think, have them--but they aren't the norm.
ProfWombat | 12.22.07 - 2:28 pm | #
I think US undergraduate programs are inefficient in terms of teaching, since they have to combine the roles of education, guild membership, and home for "research".
rootless-e |
12.22.07 - 2:32 pm | #
My favorite recollection from organic chemistry is Markivnikov's Rule, which states that when you add a hydrogen halide across a carbon-carbon double bond, the hydrogen attaches itself to the carbon that already has the most hydrogens, except, of course, when it doesn't...
My wife commonly pillories me with my "useless" knowledge, like Pythagoras's comma and the relation between energy and phase change in water.
leibniz |
12.22.07 - 2:32 pm | #
OT: Hundreds of people have shared big prizes in Spain's Christmas lottery El Gordo (The Fat One), which was worth 2.2bn euros (£1.6bn, $3.1bn) this year.
People who had one of the 185 series of the winning number - 6381 - each won up to 3m euros (£2.2m, $4.3m) in what is said to be the world's richest draw.
Holders of ticket number 55469 stood to get a share of the second prize.
Correspondents say El Gordo, with roots going back nearly 200 years, marks the start of Christmas for much of Spain.
The winning number was drawn in Madrid at 1100 (1000 GMT) on live television and radio.
i've never had a job where there was a xmas bonus.
jdw
I got a week's pay this year.
Which isn't bad, considering I've only been there since October 1.
Bosses told me the other day that they're pleased with my work.
One of the bosses also gave me a $100 gift cert to Amazon.com.
I went into my wish list last night and went to town.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:32 pm | #
Any thoughts on this?
Gimlet | 12.22.07 - 2:30 pm | #
lots of on-the-job training, i expect.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:33 pm | #
science stuff goes right over my head and maths
Lady Moonbootica, Employed |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:33 pm | #
I think that, for some folks, anything less than a declaration that Paul is "batfuck insane" is "evidence" of support.
Richard |
hey, i agree with bob barr's defense of the 4th ammendment, but that doesn't mean i'd ever support the fucker for office.
same with ron paul wanting to end the war - although, in his case, for the wrong reasons. isolationism is not a viable foreign policy.
dirk gently, sociopathetic
I won't vote for anyone who is anti-choice.
Plus, Ron Paul has it wrong on SO many other things.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:34 pm | #
My favorite Steely Dan song is "Avogadro Don't Lose Your Number."
Douglas Watts |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:34 pm | #
Turkey has launched fresh air strikes against Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq, the Turkish military says.
Fighter planes attacked positions held by the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in a 35-minute raid, according to a statement on the army's website.
Similar air strikes last Sunday were followed by an incursion involving several hundred Turkish soldiers across the border into Iraq two days later.
Turkey says the PKK is using bases in Iraq to launch attacks on Turkey.
I went into my wish list last night and went to town.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch
ack!! you're supposed to do that after xmas. someone might give you what you just bought!
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:34 pm | #
same with ron paul wanting to end the war - although, in his case, for the wrong reasons. isolationism is not a viable foreign policy.
dirk gently, sociopathetic | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 2:31 pm | #
What's non-viable about it? It appears to me that Paul's understanding of foreign policy is far more accurate than Hillary Clinton's.
rootless-e |
12.22.07 - 2:35 pm | #
Iraq will not allow US-backed neighbourhood patrols to become a "third force" alongside police and the army, Iraq's defence minister has said.
Gen Abdel Qader Jassim said the Sunni-dominated patrols should be integrated into the regular Iraqi security forces.
The patrols have been credited with the recent drop in violence in Iraq.
But Shia leaders fear the patrols will turn against them after US troops leave Iraq, correspondents say.
Is that that girl that everybody's been talking about?
Jim, Collieresque |
12.22.07 - 2:37 pm | #
I won't vote for anyone who is anti-choice.
Plus, Ron Paul has it wrong on SO many other things.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 2:34 pm | #
Greenwald is not advocating a vote for Ron Paul. He is endorsing Ron Paul's solid and unequivocal condemnation of the national security state and the war.
rootless-e |
12.22.07 - 2:37 pm | #
The thing I like about Greenwald is he has a very good eye for the truth. It's so easy to get wrapped around the axle by frustration with things as they are. (Never happens to me, of course, much. [/sarcasm]). Greenwald's main point was that NONE of the "major" candidates has said "boo" about establishing explict curbs on the extentions to Executive power made by Bush. While it would be fun to watch a Dem do a full-throttle Unitary Executive number on the R's, the whole fuckin' process just moves us closer to Imperial Governance. One wrong election and we'll have an American Putin.
bo |
12.22.07 - 2:38 pm | #
"which made it seem a lot nicer."
that's cool.
i guess i could write myself a check.
this year we did mark a milestone: for the longest time i was hoping to break $30k in the business checking account. the number itself didn't mean much...you can have a lot of cash and no inventory paid for, etc, but there were so many times i'd take checks and deposits to the bank hoping to break the 30k barrier and come up juuust short. so it became a psychological thing...
this year we finally hit 30, and at one point almost hit 40k.
jdw |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:39 pm | #
Gimlet: it isn't hard to imagine halving medical school, restricting it to immediately applicable stuff. Nurse practitioners, and PAs, of whom I am unabashed admirers, can practice primary care, sometimes specialty care, quite well.
And yet, every doc has had the experience of meeting something unexpected in his practice that jogs the odd memory, perhaps not stirred in decades, of something he/she learned in med school, just once in a dry lecture, that makes a difference. Mine was diagnosing and recalliing the pharmacologic intricacies of benztropine poisoning at 3 AM, and reversing a drug psychosis within minutes. I had no right to recall that at 3 AM, or any other time. But I had a teacher who thought that every competent medical student should be able to do that, and he taught it. Again, every doc does this once in a while; I claim no unique merit with my anecdote. So I don't have an easy answer to your question.
ProfWombat |
12.22.07 - 2:39 pm | #
What's non-viable about it? It appears to me that Paul's understanding of foreign policy is far more accurate than Hillary Clinton's.
rootless-e | 12.22.07 - 2:35 pm | #
the world has become too small and america too large to pretend we can disassociate from the rest of it. occam's razor doesn't apply to foreign policy, and paul is a broad brush simpleton.
i'm not a hillary supporter, but it isn't that i think she doesn't understand foreign policy; i think she is just arriving at the wrong solutions for largely political reasons.
dirk gently, sociopathetic |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:39 pm | #
i've never had a job where there was a xmas bonus.
jdw
I was a temp worker at a foundry and got a big ham.
Lumpenprolitariot |
12.22.07 - 2:39 pm | #
Greenwald is not advocating a vote for Ron Paul. He is endorsing Ron Paul's solid and unequivocal condemnation of the national security state and the war.
rootless-e |
Did I SAY that Greenwald was saying to vote for the nutjob?
Terry C - Democratic Bitch |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:39 pm | #
What's non-viable about it? It appears to me that Paul's understanding of foreign policy is far more accurate than Hillary Clinton's.
Given the choice, I'd take Hillary.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:40 pm | #
Is that that girl that everybody's been talking about?
the hydrogen attaches itself to the carbon that already has the most hydrogens, except, of course, when it doesn't...
there is an exception to every rule... even Markivnikov's, apparently.
fokowi |
Homepage |
12.22.07 - 2:42 pm | #
Given the choice, I'd take Hillary.
Terry C - Democratic Bitch | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 2:40 pm | #
In balance, right now, I'd vote for Hillary over Paul. But Paul understands the relationship between the CIA overthrowing Mossadeq and the situation of the US in the ME now, and Hillary will not understand that because it would lead to non-mainstream foreign policy.
rootless-e |
12.22.07 - 2:44 pm | #
The multinational character of business, and the increasing limtations of natural resources, require that nation states, and their citizenries, either cede power to the corporations or assert themselves in concert to deal with them. Isolation, even of Lichtenstein, is no longer an option.
The world is one. Those who disagree are either parasites or fools.
ProfWombat |
12.22.07 - 2:46 pm | #
These guys really have no new ideas.
They all come straight out of Reinhard Heydrich's playbook.
Apprentice to Darth Holden |
12.22.07 - 2:46 pm | #
and paul is a broad brush simpleton.
i'm not a hillary supporter, but it isn't that i think she doesn't understand foreign policy; i think she is just arriving at the wrong solutions for largely political reasons.
dirk gently, sociopathetic | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 2:39 pm | #
He is absolutely not a broad brush simpleton - on foreign policy.
Noninterventionism is not isolationism. Nonintervention simply means America does not interfere militarily, financially, or covertly in the internal affairs of other nations. It does not mean that we isolate ourselves; on the contrary, our founders advocated open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations. http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/...ul/
paul375.html
rootless-e |
12.22.07 - 2:46 pm | #
With very few exceptions, the stuff you find at LewRockwell is propaganda.
Ron Pauliac |
12.22.07 - 3:04 pm | #
But all the little atriot's deem class to be an unacceptable subject for discussion!
soullite |
12.22.07 - 3:27 pm | #
Praising Ron Paul on foreign policy and executive over-reach is like preferring a broken watch over working one that's a few minutes slow, just because it's guaranteed to tell the right time twice a day.
pseudonymous in nc |
12.22.07 - 4:41 pm | #