Dems should offer their own counter-proposal. It should have all their demands and reforms in it. That way they will have something on the table to vote for. This seems so basic and elementary form of negotiation. Dems need their own bailout plan that ensures real reform, and does not buy pieces of shitpile for more than they are worth.
Simpka |
09.20.08 - 9:42 pm | #
I just sent the following letter to my congressional delegation, the congressional leadership, and the committees with oversight. I urge everyone to send their own.
"I just read the administration’s plan for the Wall Street bailout. My initial reaction is, “You are out of your tiny little minds!” This is a monstrously bad plan with no guidelines for dispensing the money, no protections for taxpayers, and explicitly prohibits any oversight. Any member of Congress brain dead enough to vote for this proposal deserves to be tarred and feathered, placed in the stocks, and pelted with rotten produce, before being run out of the country.
If we have learned anything over the past eight years, it is that you never give any member of the Bush administration a blank check for anything. This administration, best noted for gross incompetence and pervasive corruption, cannot be trusted with spare change, let alone $700 billion, without intensive, detailed oversight. It would not be unreasonable given their record to require specific direct congressional approval for each and every expenditure (including for postage). Strict controls and oversight by both Congress and the courts must be in place before even considering any proposal from this administration.
Any acceptable proposal must include detailed guidelines for spending the money including mandatory discounting of financial instruments purchased, replacement of the all senior executives and boards of institutions receiving assistance, implementation of strict regulations and oversight of these institutions, and guarantees that the taxpayers will be the primary beneficiaries of this program. Anything is simply rewards, stupidity, incompetence, and unbridled greed. I urge you in the strongest possible terms to reject this and any other proposal which does not meet these standards."
We need to flood their offices so they are more afraid of us than of Wall Street or the preznit.
DrDick |
09.20.08 - 9:42 pm | #
So, McCain is Hoover & Obama is FDR?
Prior Aelred |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:42 pm | #
Good grief. Is there any doubt (any whatsoever) that these sales of distressed properties are going to go for fractions of a cent on the dollar, to Republican insiders? These fuckers are emptying the Treasury, jamming their offshore banks with filthy lucre (our filthy lucre, at that) and will waltz away, leaving us to pick up the tab.
Tar and feathers time, folks.
Orange Tom |
09.20.08 - 9:43 pm | #
This is another moment for Obama to take a role of central leadership to shape a message.
Sadly, the last time he was in this role was FISA. And he rolled on that one. :/
Which means we're utterly fucked on this one. It will get steamrolled because Nancy and Harry don't want to risk getting any blame prior to a certain Tuesday in November that they fear will cost them gaining seats. That's really all they care about at this point - more seats.
Guys, guys. There's powder. That powder must be dry. Dry, I tell you. Dry.
Gilly Gonzylon |
09.20.08 - 9:44 pm | #
Obama needs to remind America that Rove's tactics always attack from weakness rather than strength.
McAint goes after Obama where McAint is weakest, which is the over reliance on advisers who are neck deep in the big financial muddy.
(Rove had America believing that the best person to prosecute a war on terra and in Iraq was a guy who drank and snorted his way out of the Champagne corps.)
Hammer at the press and challenge them to follow up on every accusation of McAint against Obama to see the cesspool in McAint's past and current campaign on the very issues which McAint is throwing stones.
Tom - 大肚腩 |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:44 pm | #
Well, we can deluge our congress critters with faxes and email that contain Bernie Sanders' telephone number. He seems to have a grasp on things.
Diane C. Barking-Mad |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:45 pm | #
If Biden is for it, I would ask him why he voted for the bankruptcy bill.
Gilly Gonzylon |
09.20.08 - 9:47 pm | #
Well, we can deluge our congress critters with faxes and email that contain Bernie Sanders' telephone number. He seems to have a grasp on things.
Diane C. Barking-Mad | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 9:45 pm
But but but he's a socialist (and nationalising AIG and big financial toxic waste pit is just good economic sense, but can't be replicated where it would benefit poor people or it would create moral hazard)
Tom - 大肚腩 |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:47 pm | #
Good evening, peeps. I just posted something at Pax Americana. Unfortunately it's kind of a bummer, about another veteran suicide.
Karin Hussein |
09.20.08 - 9:47 pm | #
But you'll fail the saving throw against microwave cannons.
Defeated by simple mirrors (tough luck to the cannon team that gets it thrown back at 'em).
Orange Tom |
09.20.08 - 9:48 pm | #
My proposal:
First, create proper regulations for the financial markets. The free-marketeers have been telling us for decades that regulations are evil, that they suffocate the adventurous and creative spirit of the markets and that they shouldn't be enforced. And the government listened and stored these words in its heart (if it has one) and Phil Gramm made sure that the regulations no longer stifled anyone. Then of course a market which deals in fortune-telling and guesses and imperfect information and leveraging and pure adrenalin went crazy. Imagine, for a moment, what a baseball game would look like if the umpires were not allowed to say anything at all, and imagine then how the game would change ( would there be hired killers to shoot the pitchers of the other team?) and you can see why the stock market needs regulations (rules) and regulators (u umpires). Of course, the stock markets matter much more than baseball games, but you get the point.
Second, stop ignoring the anti-trust regulations. Stop letting one fish eat up all the other fish, stop that enormous bubble-fish taking over the whole market. There are several reasons for enforcing the anti-trust rules which we still have in the books. They range from the nastiness of having just one firm to buy from and the power this gives to that one firm to charge a lot to the present crisis where some firms are so large that we have to bail them out even when they don't deserve such a bailout at all. There are many different economic models, true, but none of them advocate monopolies or oligopolies in all the crucial industries, yet that's the way the Republicans have steered the markets.
Third, make sure that the bailing out doesn't reward those who are major culprits in causing the crisis. Make sure that the authors of the crisis get full credit for it (Phil Gramm, I'm looking at you), that all those conservative thinkers who created it get forever remembered for creating it.
It will not be possible to fix the crisis in a fair way, a way which would not punish the innocent or reward the guilty, and neither will it be possible to fix it without a lot of pain. But at least we can use the opportunity to make sure that future crises will take longer than a few decades to appear and we can make sure that those who advocated the relaxing of all the protective rules and regulations get that reputation eternally attached to their names.
Echidne |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:48 pm | #
Fine -- I'll go down and call sheets. Thanks bunches.
What does a sane proposal look like? As I understand it, we've got 62 trillion dollars in tulips. Hell we'd be better off if it was tulip based. The fixes are all just clapping harder to save Tinkerbelle.
bo |
09.20.08 - 9:49 pm | #
my hair dresser on friday:
Do you think i should move my money to the Kiwi Bank (last national nz bank left standing and only about five years old). She holds a bit of money in an ozzie bank.
i told her i had moved my cash there right after the bank opened for business.
we're at the end of the world as we know it and masses are finally catching up.
I've voted for Bernie Sanders many times, but have only recently come to realize how right he is on economic issues.
And I just sent him an email to tell him so.
Gromit |
09.20.08 - 9:49 pm | #
Defeated by simple mirrors (tough luck to the cannon team that gets it thrown back at 'em).
Heh.
*goes to found the National Mirror Association*
Anon, TCM addict |
09.20.08 - 9:49 pm | #
What Simpka said. Get the liberal economists' brains trust to draft something. Krugman, Reich, DeLong, etc.
They need a counter-offer and vocal supporters. Otherwise it's a recipe for the same capitulation as FISA, torture, etc, because Bush will be waving his veto Sharpie.
This is all about emptying the larder so that Obama can't spend a brass cent on his policy proposals. Oh, and Obama needs to show up in the Senate to speak, not just to vote.
Right now we're in the 'when you owe the bank a billion, you own the bank' situation. I'd say that the Dems need something with a six-month sunset, and some serious bottom-up provisions (as well as ones that make the fuckup Wall Street CEOs squeal like stuck pigs).
If it means making the federal government a temporary landlord, so be it. Better that than allocating $2,333 for every individual in the country.
pseudonymous in nc |
09.20.08 - 9:49 pm | #
bail the optimates. where is our Sulla?
irreverent |
09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
How about leaning hard on Obama from the grassroots up to knock the jelly-willed Congressional Dems into line.
JeffCO |
09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
At least this seriously reduces the possibility of an Iran strike
Gilly Gonzylon |
09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
You peternecked dickknobs.
You left me BEHIND!
.
Jeffraham Prestonian |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
But Bernie Sanders is a socialist!
Conservatism always works!
(especially when it doesn't)
Prior Aelred |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
At least this seriously reduces the possibility of an Iran strike
Funny. I think the opposite.
Anon, TCM addict |
09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
How about leaning hard on Obama from the grassroots up to knock the jelly-willed Congressional Dems into line.
JeffCO | 09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
Not when there's powder to kept dry.
Gilly Gonzylon |
09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
I want to hear what Petraeus has to say....
th |
09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
prestonian you amaze me
irreverent |
09.20.08 - 9:51 pm | #
One of the basics of good governance, in recognition that perfection is unattainable on this earth, is to accept the necessity for monitoring and evaluation of one's actions, anticipating an inevitable need to correct them, in response to oversight, opposition, changing circumstance, a myriad of possibilities not considered.
Refusal to allow it, on the other hand, is the mark of the dictator, the criminal, the theocrat. Utterly undemocratic, irresponsible, and inevitably leads to rot.
ProfWombat |
09.20.08 - 9:51 pm | #
Funny. I think the opposite.
Anon, TCM addict | 09.20.08 - 9:50 pm | #
We're going to borrow even MORE?
Gilly Gonzylon |
09.20.08 - 9:51 pm | #
I posted this over at Crooks and Liars:
Congress totally abdicated their role years ago and both sides are to blame. As representatives of the people, they just plain suck. An argument could be made that we have been experiencing taxation without representation for some time now and there was a time when those were fighting words. I would LOVE to see a full page ad in the major dailies from U.S. citizens (since our representatives aren’t up to it) explaining our contractual demands in return for the $700 billion bailout (and you know this is just ’seed’ money–it’s gonna be much more). Sort of a “we’ll give you the money, but here are the conditions” thing:
1. In recognition of their complete f*$k waddery, CEOs and brokers of and advisers to the rescued financial institutions will repay 100% of their illegally and fradulently acquired commissions, plus a 20% f*$k waddery surcharge and a 10% ‘administrative’ fee (they should be familiar with these 'make believe line items' because they are the ones who initiated their use).
2. Future salaries for financial executives will be commensurate with training and experience. Since, based on your balance sheets, your level of skill indicates negative training and experience, you will be paying us from now on.
3. In re: to Mr. Paulson asserting that he will have complete say over how and to whom our money is dispersed with no recourse to review or legal action. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Good one, Mr. Paulson. You are such a card. What? You've got to be shitting us? YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS?
Well in that case: NO WAY, NO HOW, NO CHANCE. You want our money, you WILL be subject to review by whomever and in whatever way we deem appropriate. Look dude, you’re not dealing with a lame ass Congress here. We are THE PEOPLE and, whatever Congress might be stupid enough to do, we’re not stupid enough to give you (former Chairman of Goldman Sachs) lots of our money to distribute to your friends (who f*$ked up royally while you were one of them) with no “adult supervision.” Ain’t gonna happen.
4. And while we’re at it, Mr. Paulson, an annual report to Congress is not sufficient. We want an independent auditing agency set up with the teeth to force compliance, quarterly reports about how your great plan is working and a website where all activities are recorded for public view. AND a public stockade for pelting tomatoes at the most egregious of the f*$k wads.
5. Oh, and don’t pull the panic crap on us–we’ve fallen for that gimmick one too many times. It took you guys years to f*$k this up, we deserve more than one weekend to come up with plan. If it truly is going to go all to hell in handbasket within 48 hours, well then we guess you should’ve maybe said something sooner, huh?
Signed,
The Beleaguered, but Strangely Reinvigorated, American People
Pongo |
09.20.08 - 9:51 pm | #
Thank goodness Wake Forest has missed two FGs tonight, or it'd be pretty much out of reach for FSU.
Sinf, awaiting knee surgery |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:51 pm | #
prestonian you amaze me
Don't get used to it.
.
Jeffraham Prestonian |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:51 pm | #
petreaus is like a hard boiled egg that is undercooked
irreverent |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
There is going to be hearings right?
Just ask why this is going to work. He will say he hopes so. Then ask him the chances of success. IF he's honest he will say slim. If he lies and says 90%, a certainty, he will eventually be proven a fool.
Then ask him how it is going to work.
Then ask him when he discovered that the gigantic edifice of American finance was going to collapse. Ask if that collapse indicates fundamental problems with the system. If he says no, lies, then the American people will know it's a lie. If he says yes then he indicts himself and the entire world of Pigmen.
Obama better get back to DC right now. If he doesn't we are in extra deep doodoo.
rapier |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
Counter-proposal is a good idea -trouble is, I don't think there is any way out of this mess caused by McCain's chief economic adviser!
Prior Aelred |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
We're going to borrow even MORE?
Gilly Gonzylon
Stop thinking rationally. This is the Bush administration we are talking about.
All debate would end after we start bombing Tehran and all the fundies chant "USA!"
Anon, TCM addict |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
Bush said he was inclined to let the market work but then experts talked to him so he decided to "act and to act -- bold-ly." It's a good thing that I didn't have a weapon.
Hecate, Runnymeade Conspirator |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
Prior: nothing, but nothing, always works. Not conservatism, not liberalism, nothing.
hence, as I suggested, the need for checks, for monitoring and evaluation. Let the sun shine in...
ProfWombat |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
But Bernie Sanders is a socialist!
You say that as if it's a bad thing.
aangus: Canukistanian |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
I think when it comes to Wall Street's malfeasance and misfeasance we should play the righteous vengeance card. Don't give $700 billion to bankers who obviously can't balance their books but make it available as emergency funds to working Americans as we get through these tough times created by cronies of the Republican party.
George Johnston |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
It looks like McCain is getting ready to oppose this thing. So it McCain opposes it, surely Pelosi will too.
Simpka | 09.20.08 - 9:46 pm
McAint will be against it because it doesn't contain provisions to scrap mark to market regulations and minimum capital requirements on shadow banks.
After all it's just numbers in a computer, so we should be able to say whatever number we want.
On a side note, can we get a public accounting on how much the Fed already has outstanding in rolling loans backed by toxic waste collateral?
Tom - 大肚腩 |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:52 pm | #
Shock Doctrine. And the dumbass congress is shocked.
Gilly Gonzylon |
09.20.08 - 9:54 pm | #
I think that the book The Shock Doctrine leads us to what they want to happen after the crash, we need to offer proposals.
Simpka is on the money, but the ability to create something in time is a problem.
What I hate is the demand not to politicize this. Screw that non-sense. This needs to be addressed because they will use it against us even if we DIDN'T add politics.
What can WE, bloggers do?
Imagine you are a framer of the constitution. What would YOU do.
You would set up checks and balances.
And I would work to some how try and isolate some people from the ability to buy their way out of prosecution.
I'm think they need a group of "Untouchables" who can go in and demand regulation, seize ill gotten gains. And that if the financial community balks say, "You want our money but you don't want our rule? Well find someone else to bail you out."
Banksters: "You won't dare! You would be hurting the country too badly!"
Untouchable: "Try me. You submit to this now or I'll make criminal prosecution part of the deal and STILL get my rules. The think is I don't care what happens to the poor people, frankly they are all fine. We both know that the people who will really hurt are you, so, follow these rules."
"Bankster. "Okay. Now give me the money!"
Spoc ko |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:54 pm | #
Also, nowhere did she mention guillotines or stockades.
These are understood in the last paragraph. Do I have to spell every little thing out, gah?
Echidne |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:54 pm | #
make it available as emergency funds to working Americans as we get through these tough times created by cronies of the Republican party.
George Johnston | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 9:52 pm
what do ya think this is? A sub-prime mortgage crisis that could be solved by just making sure mortgages were being paid?
And a plan like that would increase moral hazard and that's a no no.
Tom - 大肚腩 |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:54 pm | #
It is spring somewhere on this planet.
Gomez |
09.20.08 - 9:54 pm | #
DeLong's checklist:
- Remuneration reform, and cancellation of golden parachutes
- Equity dilution through warrants
- Congressional approval for terms
- Different authority structure: Paulson doesn't get dictatorial powers over $700bn.
Aka: we bail you out, we own your ass.
pseudonymous in nc |
09.20.08 - 9:54 pm | #
Good evening, peeps. I just posted something at Pax Americana. Unfortunately it's kind of a bummer, about another veteran suicide.
Karin Hussein | 09.20.08 - 9:47 pm | #
link, please? too tired to search...
Diane |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:54 pm | #
It is spring somewhere on this planet.
North Pole.
Anon, TCM addict |
09.20.08 - 9:55 pm | #
We're going to borrow even MORE?
Now that these clowns have passed the Trillion mark, they'll say "Why not a hundred Trillion? FUCKYEAH! Make it an even TRILLION TRILLION!!".
Orange Tom |
09.20.08 - 9:55 pm | #
It is spring somewhere on this planet.
Gomez | 09.20.08 - 9:54 pm | #
And how many government bonds do I get for each of my tax dollars?
Scarymousse |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:56 pm | #
Of course conservatism doesn't work -- I was repeating their meme -- every good thing in this country has come from the liberals (hat tip to Barbra Streisand whose acting & music I loathe)
Yes. See, it's not that hard? Why can't the Democrats get it?
Echidne | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 9:55 pm | #
They've lost their minds. They're obsessed with powder and keeping that powder from touching moisture or humidity.
Gilly Gonzylon |
09.20.08 - 9:56 pm | #
Conservatism is based on fear & ignorance -- it seems to manifest even in infancy http://psychologytoday.com/artic...1222- 000001.xml
Prior Aelred | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 9:56 pm | #
Precisely why the Shock Doctrine works so well on them.
Gilly Gonzylon |
09.20.08 - 9:57 pm | #
I stole that line from the late Mayor Harold Washington.
Gomez |
09.20.08 - 9:58 pm | #
And how many government bonds do I get for each of my tax dollars?
Scarymousse | Homepage | 09.20.08 - 9:56 pm
Somewhere during the next Republican administration they'll send you a check for some money that you'll have to repay on your next tax return.
Is that good enough for you?
Tom - 大肚腩 |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:58 pm | #
Here I am trying to parody troll without name stealing & people take me seriously!
Here is my gmail sig:
John Stuart Mill, letter to the Conservative MP, Sir John Pakington
(March, 1866):
"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I
meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe
that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I
hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
Prior Aelred |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:58 pm | #
These are understood in the last paragraph. Do I have to spell every little thing out, gah? Echidne
We are living in concrete times and there are more than a few who need new shoes.
JeffCO |
09.20.08 - 9:58 pm | #
There is going to be hearings right?
Uh, no. The aim is to have Paulson's draft -- gosh, he put it together quickly -- passed more or less as is before the end of next week, when Congress goes on election recess.
Chances are that most Congresscritters won't even read it.
Look, if Reid and Pelosi need to delay the recess rather than pass a shitty shitty bill sight barely-seen, then they have to be told to delay the recess. And congresscritters can be told that if they're more worried about getting to recess than passing a decent bill, then the opponent will be receiving their vote.
pseudonymous in nc |
09.20.08 - 9:58 pm | #
I think we need to set up a committee to discuss this billion, trillion, gazillion dollar deal. A big committe, with only repubs on it. Let them toss the idea around in their brains a while. Crisis will be over by the time their done.
Diane |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 9:59 pm | #
Our economy is in ruins. Unemloyment is high. The national debt is a fraking joke. Our trade balance is even worse. Most people are in debt to their hairline and most of our industry is gone or broke.
a trillion is not going to come close to fixing this mess. Maybe not even ten trillion. When is enough enough?
smalfish |
09.20.08 - 9:59 pm | #
Sheets, but somebody's already shitted them
Karin Hussein |
09.20.08 - 9:59 pm | #
"Social Security was an easier battle because it was about making it radioactive for lawmakers to do anything but say "Hell no." This is a bit trickier."
Yea, what we need is way beyond impeachment. I don't know, I kind of liked the movie, "The Sting."
Miro |
09.20.08 - 9:59 pm | #
batguano; be as pedantic as you wish to be.
the sun is out and i am barefeet/barefoot?, is spring i says mate and don't you tell me otherwise
WTF? It's definitely outrageous, I'll grant that. The socialized risk aspect and the scale. Maybe in a a grand-perspectives sense it's insane. But realistically then, what are you calling for? Something obviously has to be done. It's the Dems themselves who have been calling for a 'comprehensive approach.' They began the push for this, so what's really insane is pretending like they're even inclined at any level whatsoever to stop it. This is not them being pushovers: THEY'RE ON BOARD! IN FACT THEY'RE THE GODDAMN TRAIN'S CONDUCTORS!
What is the conceptual blockage here, Atrios?
Mike |
09.20.08 - 10:00 pm | #
My problem is the non-reviewable authority in any single person's hands, net alone a member of this particular executive branch.
It's nuts. There must be total transparency, hearings on every every buy up, bailout, what ever this clearing bad debt thing is called.
.
Sparkle Plenty |
09.20.08 - 10:01 pm | #
Remember the Clinton surplus?
Prior Aelred |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 10:02 pm | #
Reid and Pelosi need their own counter-proposal. It might look a lot like Paulson's but would have key critical improvements such what Brad DeLong proposes. Then Pelosi Reid tell the White House we will bring our plan to a vote. Hold a big press conference Monday to unveil. Then they are on level playing field. Then Paulson will start negotiating in good faith once he sees that reality of a counter-proposal. The media also needs to see that the Dems have an action plan of their own, and are not just quibbling at the edges.
Simpka |
09.20.08 - 10:02 pm | #
super siv baby
you just weren't listening to daddy paulson
disgorge your illegitimate SS benefits to Goldman Sachs. The name says it all.
Bye. Santa Claus still lives on North Pole. Please write.
irreverent |
09.20.08 - 10:02 pm | #
Thanks, Karin. Great post. I have a hard time forgetting any of them I happen to read.
Diane |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 10:04 pm | #
Second, stop ignoring the anti-trust regulations.
It is against the law of Nature for corporate media to give this matter any attention whatsoever.
I seriously don't think we should be relying on our elected officials here. They have not served us well. We need a grassroots effort. My earlier post was a lot of venting, but I don't think a letter campaign to the major dailies from the citizens of the United States is all that bad an idea. It might get the attention of the press, if not our Congresspeople, and reinforce for them that we are watching and that we've had it and are ready to force a change if they don't start doing their jobs. It is an election year after all--a little taste of discontent from the electorate might actually mean something for once.
Pongo |
09.20.08 - 10:05 pm | #
OK, a plan. We need liquidity, that is banks that will actually lend to each other and to real people. For $700 billion we could set up, oh say, 535 banks capitalized at $1 billion each (one in each congressional district and two for each state, so everybody gets an earmark.) Use the $165 change to capitalize some bigger banks in big money centers (like, where the Federal Reserve banks are.) Have a schedule to privatize these over time. That keeps the economy going, the old banks can figure out what to do with their toxic sludge. If they survive, good for them.
RichMcA |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 10:06 pm | #
Where's Judge Judy. We need a new reality show called Mortgage Court.
Scarymousse |
Homepage |
09.20.08 - 10:06 pm | #
Shit. For the money these assholes tossed away on the unneeded Iraq War, we could've reroofed every home in the US with photovoltaics, built cars to be recharged off of them and become oil EXPORTERS fer Khrist's sake. Now we're tossing away Trillions on a scheme that will enrich the same clowns that pushed for the Iraq War and will nuke our economy (I mean...this "plan" ain't gonna work folks).
What the fuckety-fuck?
Orange Tom |
09.20.08 - 10:07 pm | #
mortgage securities are a horror show, let's have a thread on tranches
Exec branch going to purchase with no oversite?
Sec Treas=exec branch, no?
We've done well with this the last 7 years?
maybe foxes will guard the henhouse?
But the henhouse (US gov) who controls?
irreverent |
09.20.08 - 10:10 pm | #
Watched an interview with Kevin Phillips (Reagan economic advisor) on Bill Moyer's journal. It's a great interview and it's online now. He's written several books over the years essentially predicting exactly what's happened. Boy, he tore Phil Gramm, and by extension McCain and his Republican brethren, a new one. He had plenty of criticism for Dems, too, but he was incredulous that McCain would be getting economic advice from Gramm. This from a former REAGAN econmic adviser. He did point out that we can't expect the Dems to do to much about regulation because 1.) the crisis is just starting in his view and it would be like "fixing the roof in the middle of a hurricane" and 2.) they have profited even more than Republicans by the big payouts on Wall Street and are unlikely to want to interfere with their own lucrative ventures.
Pongo |
09.20.08 - 10:15 pm | #
The first thing the Democrats need to do is to not trust anything that Paulson or Bernake say. They are, for all intents and purposes Bush's men, and they should not be believed at all. The Democrats need to do an investigation and find out what is true about the Wall Street meltdown. Then, they need to wait until after the election and Bush's days in office before they do anything about this mess. Most of all, they need to remain calm and tell everyone to stop panicking. Definitely, they need to tell Bush simply that he is not welcome anywhere near Capitol Hill and that they see what this truly is: the biggest bank heist in history. I wish I could believe that Democratic leaders would be able to see it that way. However, once again, I'm seeing the same stupid fools who were mislead so easily on the 2000 and 2004 elections, who said nothing about 9/11 and its causes, who eagerly supported war in Afghanistan and Iraq and paid the bills everytime Bush asked. As Martin Luther King Once said, "There comes a time when silence is betrayal." Indeed, there comes a time when these Democratic leaders should not believe people who have lied to them time and time again...and yet they do. There comes a time when I, a Democratic supporter since I first voted, cannot believe that they can believe the lies yet again. There comes a time when I understand that their incompetence and lack of judgment are as dangerous to this country as the foolish fanaticism of the Republicans. It's time for an accounting of both parties, Democratic and Republican, to see how they both have destroyed this country and its people over the last eight years. Meanwhile, I see $700 billion given over to one man without any review allowed -- and that's considered to be the best alternative available. This is betrayal of the worst kind.
Don Coyote |
09.20.08 - 10:32 pm | #
"you're sexy"-Chuck Schumer to Hank Paulson
jr |
09.20.08 - 11:11 pm | #
I wonder if they will deliver the cash shrink-wrapped on palettes this time too. Remember how well that worked out in Iraq. Perhaps they they could air drop it in to Wall Street. At least that would save on all those costly transfer fees. This is going to be so awesome!
Peter in Kobe |
09.21.08 - 2:54 am | #
Why wait 'til Monday. I sent my representative and my senators (all Republican, so I realize it was an exercise in futility, but hey--it's my duty as a citizen) the following:
Secretary Paulson's bailout proposal is unacceptable. Period. I fully understand the need to address the current crisis in a major way, but the terms the secretary has suggested are insulting to the American people whose money he is proposing to use. I do not want to be subsidizing the selfish and foolish behavior of Wall Street CEO's. I understand that there may be no choice at this point, but if I am going to be expected to take on this onerous obligation, I darn well want some accountability and some punitive measures instituted as a warning to other profligate financial types who play fast and loose with other people's money.
Frankly, I can't believe, after reading the proposal, that the secretary was not laughed out of Congress. There are (at least) five important elements missing in this document:
1.) Ill-gotten gains. Restitution needs to be made by the players who reaped obscene wealth from their fraudulent and idiotic schemes.
2.) Future compensation. You don't have to be a financial genius to know that if you pay people for making deals--regardless of the soundness of those deals--you are encouraging bad behavior. Future compensation needs to be tied to legitimate performance and not to fraudulent or overly speculative performance. People should not be rewarded for taking foolish risks with other people's money.
3.) Accountability. The secretary's program is not subject to independent or legal review? Are you kidding me? Absolutely unacceptable. This is taxpayer money--not his. Who does he think he is?
4.) Reporting. An annual report to Congress does not cut it--not even close. An independent auditing agency with the power to enforce compliance needs to set the reporting schedule.
5.) Crisis creation and management. This midnight crisis baloney has got to stop. It took years for us to get into this mess and it is unconscionable that the secretary wants to push through an inadequate and unjust bill in one weekend. If we really are that close to total economic meltdown, I guess he should have maybe mentioned something sooner.
Like most average Americans, I realize that there is no good outcome for us in all this. We are going to take the brunt of the situation one way or the other. The very least you can do, as an elected representative of the people, is actually try to represent us in this and make sure that we are not stuck with all the losses while the people who greedily created this mess make off with all their ill-gotten profits. That is the very least you can do.
Elected officials on both sides of the aisle need to know that we are angry and we are watching.
Mickey7 |
09.21.08 - 1:02 pm | #