Pat Kelly was a DH for the Orioles in the 70's and a very devoted Christian. Supposedly he once told Earl Weaver. "Earl, I want you to walk with God." Weaver responded, "Pat, I want you to walk with the bases loaded."
With religious baseball humor out of the way, you're right. I'm strong enough in my beliefs that if someone believes that I'm going to hell, that's none of my business, unless he wishes to prove the point by dispatching me there himself.
Nice work. Your understanding of the intent of Mr. Church's comments is appreciated for the maturity it shows.
Don't feel too alone in possibly being "doomed" - some Christians believe that members of other Christian groups who don't share their exact beliefs are also "doomed." And, as you say, the concern is meant with love and faith.
But it is also easy to understand the confusion. Which is why the long-standing Navy tradition that that certain topics were not to be discussed in the close quarters of a ship - religion, politics and sex- makes sense.
As I Jew, I believe my religion is the best one. And I imagine that most religious adherents believe the same of their religion. However, Judaism doesn't say that followers of other belief systems are screwed for all eternity -- Judaism is a burden (a wonderful one, but a burden nonetheless) that God has given to us, and the Bible says that non-Jews only have to worry about the Noahide code, a Jewish version of morality without the Judaism. Other religions trend to believe, it seems to me, that if you're not on board with them you're going to their version of hell... which is their right to believe, as Church apparently does. But it's nice to belong to a religion that isn't as judgemental of other paths to God.
I am your enemy then. My evil Catholic mother married my "Jewish" father and they raised a fairly irreligious son who went off and married an Asian woman --- who sure as hell is not Jewish. We are killing off the Jewish faith eh?
Well not so fast. My sister married a jewish guy, and at their wedding some moron friend of the in-laws apparently thought we were still jews --- looked at me and my wife and said to my dad (and I quote) "Hey what can you do....kids these days".
The pathetic fears about outmarriage that you have articulated lead to some ugly ugly behavior -- for which you should be deeply ashamed.
David, the word "enemy" is your word, not mine. You are not my enemy.
You apparently have taken deep offense at some stupid crack about you made by a Jew, but your description of it is inadequate. You don't explain enough for us to see why it was "ugly ugly behavior" for which I (not the speaker) should be "deeply ashamed." If it was "ugly ugly behavior," I can only imagine how you would describe physical violence, human slavery, genocide. From your own description it was just a stupid joke that was insulting to you.
You also fail to make your case that my concerns about Jewish intermarriage are "pathetic fears." One would assume you would provide evidence that intermarriage is not a threat to Jewish survival. All you say is that your sister married a Jew. But since you are not Jewish and your sister is not Jewish -- you say your father is Jewish, but it's in quotation marks, so I don't even know what you mean about HIM -- what has this all got to do with my concern about Jewish intermarriage?
The bizarre thing about your comment is that it has so little to do with my essay on Ryan Church. That essay is really pro-Christian. It argues that efforts to convert Jews are motivated by good, not bad; it says that Jews, not Christians, are responsible for keeping Jews Jewish; it criticizes a rabbi who accused Church and his pastor of bigotry; it apologizes to Church for the accusation. The essay, though, does say that Jews and evangelical Christians must agree to disagree about religion. And it says that, as Jews, we want our children to marry other Jews.
The essay isn't about you, and you have to be pretty self-absorbed to make it about you. You came to this blog by searching for "Ryan Church and Jews" and you found probably the most open-minded, philo-Christian response from a Jew, and you proceeded to insult me personally because some Jew somewhere once insulted you. And all on the evening of Yom Kippur. What kind of behavior is that?
Attila,
In principle I agree with much of what you say but I have less faith in people than you have because I think that we are treated differently.
And that can be problematic. I don't think that this happens across the board and I don't think that all Christians or Jews are bad people. But experience and logic dictate that it is important to try and maintain equality and a level playing field and when we do not do that it jeopardizes our position in society.
That being said I think that dialogue can lead to improved understanding and fewer issues between us all.
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