From Amanda:
If A Sarah is around, I just want her to know how much I enjoyed the poem over on Shapely Prose (assuming it is the same A Sarah).
Happy Holidays everyone!
From A Sarah:
Aw, Amanda... thanks! 
I had fun writing it.
And ditto the happy holidays to everyone!
From sarahz:
What a nice post! I hope I am not being a good vibe killer, but I do have to mention that some of us are celebrating the birth of a baby born in a manger!
From sarahz:
Okay, why did the 'puter eat the rest of my post?
I had said:
That may make it all the more of a miracle for some, and put this whole debate into perspective for others.
Not meaning to leave out all the other holidays, just a quick comment on one of them. :D Happy Holidays!
From mother in israel:
http://www.latimes.com/news/
opin...,0,102434.story
Just in case you hadn't seen the op-ed. Happy holidays.
From Amy Tuteur, MD:
mother in israel:
"Just in case you hadn't seen the op-ed."
I saw it. It's just the same old stuff, recycled yet again.
From Liz1:
I detest the phoney hype of Christmas with a passion, I hate mid winter, a heavy cold has done nothing to strike a spark of goodwill anywhere in me and I have to say that being directed more than once to the wide eyed drivel of Jennifer Block has done nothing to improve my mood. Why do newspapers continue to publish this stuff as if it actually said anything? Ms Block does her “meticulous research” And guess what? Labour needn’t hurt, epidurals are a bad idea, and nearly all CS are unnecessary. How stunningly unexpected! Why has no-one thought to comment on all this before? Oh, wait a minute, they have. Quite a few of them. In fact, Jennifer Block could have restricted her “meticulous research” to a few dozen other books and articles saying pretty much the same thing ad nauseum. How on earth can this kind of soft centred wishful thinking pass for any kind of feminism?
Irritated, I went in pursuit, expecting the usual tale – first baby shattered a few illusions, second or third born at home and the scales fell from her eyes! No longer a sheeple! But no, a variation for once. This lady has no children. Her truth was revealed by watching other people have them. Some fairly carefully selected other people, as far as I can see. How many women who had hard births were interviewed, I wonder? How many whose children would not have survived without a CS, the availability of skilled hospital staff ? How much time was spent on ante-natal wards like the one I became familiar with, with women grimly hoping to hang on long enough for a healthy baby, how many interviews with NICU mothers? How many whose children did not survive the expected empowering birth, to their surprise and enduring grief? Women who did nothing wrong, and who will spend their lives wondering why the fairy tale didn’t include them? Why don’t these women who have easy births thank their lucky stars and shut the fuck up instead of evangelizing? We do all know that most babies get born safely, and we are all pretty happy that that is the case. Why do we have to pretend that this is some revelation, known only to the fortunate initiates, and somehow hidden from the rest of us? But it really, really is a lousy idea to rely on it. and positively wicked to sell it as foregone conclusion
Does she actually believe this stuff, or was it simply a way to make a fast buck from a book contract?
Why on earth has this crazy myth of childbirth as safe and “empowering” gained such currency? I am all in favour of women wishing to have more choices, of being “informed”, in so far as that is possible, of taking on antiquated and sometimes demeaning treatment in hospitals, of questioning “authority” – but how did that get translated into some fairy tale of graceful, painless, risk free birth? All my life I have had a problem with the telling of horror stories, the dwelling on the pain of labour, the bad things that can and do happen but I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the horror stories need to be told, and told again, and that women should be made to understand that it CAN happen to you. It probably won’t. Be thankful, and stuff your sodding complacency.
From Lee Passman:
"How on earth can this kind of soft centred wishful thinking pass for any kind of feminism?"
Please explain, Liz1, why Singapore and most of Europe have lower neonatal and infant mortality than the United States AND a lower C-section rate.
"Why on earth has this crazy myth of childbirth as safe and “empowering” gained such currency?"
Nobody believes childbirth is safe and empowering. Rather, having your pregnancy induced or having a C-section for the convenience of your OB/GYN, who may not wish to miss a round of golf, is dis-empowering.
There is a hospital formula to female exploitation: (1) give drugs to strengthen contractions; (2) give an epidural to relieve the pain from 1; (3) wait for the epidural to weaken the effect of 1; (4) give more drugs to strengthen contractions; (5) give more epidural painkillers; (6) claim the baby is in distress; (7) Any comment about the health and safety of the baby is usually enough to terrify the mother into getting a C-section, justified by a state-of-affairs that the hospital generated for fun and profit; (
listen to Amy make fun of the mother who did not have the strength to lift her baby to breastfeed her after a C-section, which is after all major surgery.
From Liz:
I don't honestly feel I have to explain the mortality rates in Singapore. If I did, I would want/need to do some pretty thorough research first, rather than just grasp at figures without looking at what is implied by them. "Most of Europe" may seem like a single category from your side of the Atlantic, but there are some fairly substantial differences between, say, Rumania and Holland. Explanations along the lines of birthrates, ethnicity, prematurity, fetility etc. seem to me to make direct comparisons unwise. Not that I wouldn't be in favour of questions like this being studied carefully by people better equipped than me to do it.
As for your slightly paranoid assessment of what happens in hospitals, do me a favour. Being opposed to homebirth does not mean that I think hospitals are perfect. Maybe there are indeed golf playing maniacs out there, and certainly there is plenty of room for improvement. But having suffered the consequences of the CS not done, or not done in time, I am hardly likely to view fetal distress in the same sanguine light.
From Alexis:
And yet Singapore (I know someone who had a baby there) has the MOST medicalized system of birth. So whateve the US is doing wrong, that probably isn't the issue.
Commenting by HaloScan
