Baal Habos
I find R. Horowitz to be THE major voice of sanity in the chareidi veldt and appreciate the work that he does even though I'm not part of that world. (In this case failedmessiah is way off base - he couldn't think of anything better than to castigate R. Horowitz because he didn't go far enough and take the leading rabbanim to task.)
Rabbi H. definitely gets some credit for standing up as he does, but the sad fact is that he also is knowingly avoiding pointing the finger where it really deserves to be aimed - the leadership. Buzaglo is like a low-level hit man, and instead of placing the blame on the guys calling the shots, Horowitz is choosing the easy target (and he knows it). But it's not just the rabbinic leadership who deserve blame. The chareidi public is complicit in all this too. They've turned a blind eye to all the violence for years. They've let the extremists gain ever more power, silently acquiescing to every idiocy they introduce to the community, until it's morphed from a chumra that only a few people do to something that is so widely expected in their community that if you don't do it you'll probably lose your chareidi bona fides. (e.g. risk your kids status in a good school, or lose a shidduch prospect.)
Despite the few protests we hear from Rabbi Horowitz and the good people who support him, how much real action has the chareidi public really demanded be done about these sort of things? I think it's quite evident that there has been far more vocal and forceful reactions (from both the leadership and the public) in regards to sheitels, kashrus, jewish music, books (by frum authors), and other relatively trivial issues than there has ever been to any of the truly pressing issues.
Chareidi society built this house, and now they have to live in it. For them to claim now that "these people are not real chareidim" is utterly laughable. And until Rabbi Horowitz openly acknowledges these unpleasant facts, he is not really doing anything but addressing symptoms.
Although he is still undoubtedly the most sane voice out there.
Hedyot, I just don't get you. He clearly does exhort the Chareidi community as a whole to take a stand. What more do you expect? Who exactly in the Chareidi leadership do want him to confront? You want him to take on R' Elyashiv? Do you want him to lose his own Chareidi status?
Sure, he exhorts them to "take a stand", but about what? Does he point out all the attitudes and behaviors of their society that allow this behavior to manifest? Does he take them to task for looking the other way at all the awful things the extremists have been doing until now which have led up to this act? Does he point to all the yeshivos which cultivate an atmosphere of isolationism? Does he even mention the rabbonim who have kept silent about this stuff while getting all up in arms about concerts and sheitels?
I like R' Horowitz a lot for what he does, but the truth is he rarely says what really needs to be said. It's the same thing with the molestation issue. He is very vocal that the problem exists, and that we need to do "something" about it, but he never has the guts to point out the communal attitudes and behavior of the leadership that have allowed such a problem to fester for so long.
I'll grant him that he raises awareness, and that he at least admits there's a problem, but until he has the guts to point to the real causes of the problem, and not just acknowledge its existence and address symptoms, then he shouldn't be proclaimed as the voice of sanity.
Just like secret atheists eating pork on Yom Kippur don't represent the typical Orthodox Jew, neither does this nut with his vigilantes. I think it's obvious that any large community has some demented people.
Clearly. 
>I'll grant him that he raises awareness, and that he at least admits there's a problem, but until he has the guts to point to the real causes of the problem, and not just acknowledge its existence and address symptoms, then he shouldn't be proclaimed as the voice of sanity.
There are two ways of being an agent for change. One is doing what you can. The other might lead to getting tossed out of your position of influence and then you're left with nothing. I imagine there's only so much he can say before he is tagged as an outsider and then he'd be no different than Bloggers, like me, who accomplish nothing.
> Clearly
Very!
>I think it's obvious that any large community has some demented people.
But the problem is that these demented people are hijacking Judaism and people like you just let it happen. You expend your energy going after evil atheists and scheming skeptics who hurt no-one. Let's see you post something critical of the fanatic Rightwing direction my beloved OJ is heading to.
I agree that if he goes any further he might well face dire consequences. But if he feels that's a justification for not speaking up, then how is he different from the people who he is yelling at for being quiet?! They also say "we can't speak up too much or else we'll be in trouble!" That's the very idea that he's bemoaning!!! The silence in the face of chillul hashem, the willingness to take the easy way out instead of standing up against what is wrong! How can he be yelling at people for not speaking up about the travesties when he himself is committing that very transgression!!!
The only difference between him and the people he's calling to action is that they are not willing to even acknowledge the problem, and he is not willing to acknowledge the source of the problem. But the ambivalence of both of them is the same - it's because they are afraid of what will happen if they say what they know is really true.
Hedyot, that's an Aizeneh Kashye. I gotta think about it.
Wow, an aizeneh kashye. In yeshiva I never got to ask the aizene kashyes. Finally!
>But if he feels that's a justification for not speaking up, then how is he different from the people who he is yelling at for being quiet?!
Hedyot, if Rabbi Horowitz succeeds in being a bulwark and in keeping things from slipping even more to the right, he will have accomplished much. His speaking out, not necessarily against the Charedid leadership, but against the situation in general is more than anyone else has done until now.
Tzurich Iyun.
A pointed, well-written article! R' Horowitz, has consistently shown courage, common sense & eloquence in his stated positions... if only he were considered a gadol hador, even right-wing OJ just might be a healthier, more intellectually vigourous institution today!
In any case, taking him to task for not going further, being more combative or even more outspoken, is unconstructive and unfair. It's important---in the name of both fairness and intellectual honesty---to always keep in mind there are different nuances of doubting/questioning, infinite levels of how far even smart people will go--not everyone wants to bring down the whole temple, so to speak, and that's their prerogative. To consider, if only by implication, that anyone who doesn't follow every criticism or line of questioning all the way through to some "ultimate conclusion" is therefore "just like the rest" is somewhat analogous to frummies who consider ANY doubter, or anyone who behaves immorally as not really, truly orthodox, and hence outside the circle of people whose actions or opinions count.
For his background and level of commitment, he's quite brave & outspoken, and he's certainly a big part of the solution, (if there's ever to be one).
JS, undoubtedly. I think Hedyot's question is something along the lines of what is Horowitz accomplishing, and that's what I was addressing at 1:16.
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