Yes, my reaction was more or less the same. Chávez's lunatic rant (I especially like his little semantic argument about 'manipulación') pretty much did away with any doubts I may still have had: Chávez is in cahoots with the FARC.
Still, I don't think declaring Venezuela a SSOT would be a smart idea - it would probably play right into Chávez's hands just like the Cuban embargo played into Fidel Castro's hands.
Sure. As I understand it the State Dept. reviews these things yearly, and this year's review just passed, so if anything it would come next year, under President (probably) Obama. Sounds unlikely to me.
I'm more interested in the Ordinary Language angle, though.
I mean, holy shit: our state sponsors terrorism! How fucked up is that?
it's pretty fucked up so what's new? look at chavez best buddies in Iran, Syria, etc? and now there is news Belarus was going to help chavez help farc. How's the expression "show me a man's friend's and......
They're the "good" terrorists, Quico. Doesn't that make all the difference? Sure, they kidnap and indiscriminately kill civilians, but that will all be forgotten once they kick that evil right-winger out of place and bring in a kinder, gentler kind of government. It's just collateral damage - you've got to break a few eggs to make an omelette.
Do you know how hard it was not to puke as I wrote that? I don't really care what State says - evil is a FARC does.
Kind of puts the Iran Air flight from Caracas to Damascus and Teheran into perspective, doesn't it? We know that flight doesn't exist for commercial reasons, so now it's all becoming more clear: weapons shipped on that plane can evade a long boat ride and having to pass through countries, ports or airports that would give the game away, to use your phrase.
My concern about unveiling this conspiracy is that, if anything, the amount of weapons shipments are likely to accelerate now that they've been uncovered.
FT, could you please expand on this "I mean, holy shit: our state sponsors terrorism! How fucked up is that?"
Does this means that you didn't know or that you were waiting for an INTERPOL-like verdict to believe that Chavez anda de pipi agarrao with the FARC?
I'll leave with this quote from Miguel:
"The headlines from abroad tells us that the data contained in Reyes' computer proves that Chavez had a close relationship with the FARC. Is there a surprise there? Only the imbecile cheerleaders of the revolution still try to claim the data is false. One really does not need much proof to know how tight Chavez was and is with the FARC. Have people forgotten the FARC's Foreign Minister Rodrigo Granda? Granda lived in Venezuela under a different name in total opulence, using papers provided to him by the Chavez Government. He even registered to vote! And when he first came to Venezuela he was provided full VIP protocol service at the airport, ordered by none other than the current Minister of the Interior. If Huguito disagreed with this actions, why was Chacin, who also had a second identity a turbulent past and a few million dollars under his name when he left the Ministry, brought back to the position last year?"
I agree, putting them on a list will do the Castro thing.
How can this work well? Abroad I think Chavez gets more discredited by shouting that Merkel is like Hitler (which is just an idiotic thing to say).
Can these news be used to open the eyes to some in Venezuela who still believe in him? I think it is possible:
"do you want Chavez to support the FARC or to reduce crime to levels as low or lower than when he arrived to power?"
"do you want Chavez to go on buying submarines or do you want him to build better schools in your barrio?
Another interesting thing would be to confront such people as Lula with these news, but this needs to be done carefully, with a well-prepared dossier.
Alek,
I do think there is value added in the Interpol investigation. We all knew Granda was in Venezuela, but that only proved that Venezuela was a safe haven for certain members of the FARC's leadership. The stuff about the money and the weapons contained in the computer is a whole different ballgame.
Don't forget Danny Boy in Nicaragua. He has taken in the Mexican girl who was with the FARC during the raid in Ecuador.
President Obama?
oh please...
Katy, what I find fascinating is some people's reaction to Chavez's 'about-to-be-official' link with terrorists. Mind you, what about Gonzalez Gonzalez briefing in Feb. 2001 in El Vigia airport? What about Rodriguez Chacin involvement in Granda's wife and step daughter Maiquetia issue in 2002? What about Chavez reaction to Granda's capture? What about imprisonment of the guy who caught Granda? What about Chavez's reaction to Reyes' killings? And the many times he's stated support for the FARC?
Yes INTERPOL does add some value, I hope, which is that those who were foolish, ignorant, naive, or stupid enough not to see the writing on the wall will have to face what has been un secreto a voces.
... effectively, what has been a very clear and open policy of sponsoring narcoterrorism.
Don't forget Victor Bout. It seems the bloke could be caught thanks to that laptop. I imagine now so many guys just crossing their fingers, looking at their mobile phones and saying "Chávez, don't call me, don't call me, don't call me"
I wonder if Globovision could not go to Maiquetia and try to film the Iranian plane.
Kepler, Viktor Bout was caught by American intelligence types posing as FARC narcos, not by intel coming from Reyes' laptop. If you know differently please do share.
Agreed, although from my experience, some people woudl refuse to believe even if Chávez personally knocked down a US Apache helicopter.
Kepler
The Iran Air plane is referred to in Maiquetía as "the ghost plane". Apparently, few people get off, few people board it, and it goes through a separate part of the airport... 'nuff said!
I bet they have the hottest flight attendants ... if burkas are your thing.
It won't happen, but for me the perfect response would be for the U.S. to stop buying oil from Venezuela if it makes placement on the list. Gas prices would skyrocket, perhaps FINALLY spurring serious R&D investment in alternatives (40 years too late, but finally). Chavez would not make the same profits on alternate buyers (refining the sour, thick, Venezuelan oil, transporting it by ship to China, etc., would cut into it) and it would take a while to put it all together, so Chavez would be weakened in the ensuing temporary financial chaos and perhaps ousted. He wouldn't be able to travel many places without risking arrest. And wouldn't Colombia be justified in military action against Venezuela? God knows they would win. If Canada was caught supplying Al Qaeda's attacks on the U.S., then I'm pretty sure we'd take a few strategic whacks at them. Hasn't the FARC killed more Venezuelans than the number of Americans that died on 911?
Alek: no, I do not know. I would like to find out when Viktor arrived in Thailand. The arrest was just a couple of days after the Reyes thing. Is that coincidence? I don't know.
Katy,
I know about the ghost thing, but it would be nice if the journalists would do the German thing: go there when the plane is due and ask apparently "candid" questions.
Perhaps it is too hot to be done (not because of the burkas, of that I am sure)
Katy, the opinion of those who would refuse to believe that Chavez is in bed with FARC is, entirely, irrelevant. What's important here are the facts, past and present, and the general perception generated by news outlets of undisputed reputation.
Once upon a time, a Beeb's documentary managed to convince a great deal of people that woe were us: Chavez-FARC relationship is sort of payback time. Anyone supporting Chavez is, by definition, a supporter of a supporter of terrorism. That includes London's former mayor and many others who sooner or later will have to face the music.
Kep, the Colombians say arresting Viktor Bout had nothing to do with the documents:
http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArt...px?
IdArt=109984
Alek,
of all the points, this is the one point I see most relevant:
"Yes INTERPOL does add some value, I hope, which is that those who were foolish, ignorant, naive, or stupid enough not to see the writing on the wall will have to face what has been un secreto a voces."
I mean what resources are people using to see what is happening?How long will this continue???
By the way, I'd prefer it if the German media would ignore the Merkel = Hitler nonsense and report on Hugo's ties to the FARC, but oh well...
hey Quico, loved the photos on this post, especially the baby with head in hand! Thanks for the Monday morning laugh.
Gracias Carol! I aim to please...
Firepig, I think Katy brought up a pertinent point, namely there are some true believers out there who think that Chavez is infallible, they honestly believe that the man is above sin. However Kepler's recurring point about how this lot, as far as Europe and US political power is concerned, represent less than 5% of the electorate is equally relevant. This is why I say that whatever the creed these fundamentalists believe in is beyond irrelevant.
What's important now is general perception and that seems to be that Chavez moved from pariah status to sponsor of terrorism, which is something we have known for a long while.
So let's compare: on this side INTERPOL, Europe, Canada, the USA, most reputed news outlets, Colombia and the majority of its people, etc. On the other: Rodriguez Chacin, Nicolas Maduro, Chavez, Correa, Eva Golinger, Mark Weisbrot et al, VIO, TELESUR, Castro's propaganda machine, and a radical minority of the citizenry of Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, Bolivia, etc.
I think we are doing pretty good.
I second Carol on the photos, though I vote for the one of the laptop being deep-sixed.
Actually, even Weisbrot is (mostly) in the first column: that thing he co-signed with Larry Birns and an assortment of groovy academic ñángaras (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3386) pretty much throws in the towel on the Laptop's authenticity, arguing weakly that people are "reading too much" into Reyes's email.
Which actually puts him at odds with Chávez's position yesterday: the party line is that the files are outright forgeries, which is not what these guys are saying at all.
If Interpol says what everyone now realizes they're gonna say, how much of Weisbrot and Birns's outrage do you think they'll redirect at Chávez for denying what everybody knows to be true?
...an assortment of groovy academic ñángaras...
Thanks for a good laugh mate!!
That nángara letter contains some names that are new to me. It also contains a laughable assertion:
"The most extensive evaluation of the available documents has been done by Adam Isacson of the Center for International Policy . In addition to the concerns above, Isascson concluded that the uptick in communication between the Venezuelan government and the FARC coincided almost exclusively with the timeframe in which Chavez had been invited to mediate hostage negotiations."
If you google Adam Isacson, you will reach this page
http://www.cipcol.org/
Which is a certified PSF shrine if I ever saw one.
Their press release should say "We PSFs think the contents of this computer should not be misinterpreted, and our analysis is based on the findings of another PSF."
It's their own little world these lunatics live in.
I dunno, Katy: I've never read CipCol before, but it strikes me that the guy throws in the towel on a number of key points, and is left to speculate that maybe the guerrillas were fibbing in their internal communications.
http://www.cipcol.org/?p=596#more-596
I love that Weisbrot and Birns decided to endorse this guy's credibility. He seems to be backtracking something fierce...
Check the URL in Alexa.
Not 100% reliable, but it gives some hints.
My only good source in Colombia tells me Isaacson, the guy behind CipCol, is well regarded in DC.
I regularly read CipCol, and I don't think Adam is a PSF. The guy just is very critical of Uribe, but he knows what he is talking about and isn't prone to crazy conspiracy theories.
And in the few instances where he does talk about Chávez, he's mostly been pretty critical about him - but just like Quico, he sticks to the country he knows the most about.
Anyway, want to bet Weisbrot & Cía. won't talk about Adam's latest post?
Well, who knows (about Isacson).
He does have a link to Caracas Chronicles on his webpage, so I guess he's not 100% inaccurate... 
May be the more interesting question with regards to the Iranian flights is how do they get to Venezuela? Iran dows not have long range aircraft capable of flying the 6,300 NM directly from Iran to Venezuela and no large planes that can be refueled in mid air. Also, it is doubtful that an Iranian plane could transit directly over much of southern Europe.
The most direct flight path (8,700 NM) that would miss Europe would take a flight from Iran east of Saudi Arabia to the Horn of Africa and then across North Africa, refueling where ever they can.
A slightly longer flight path (9,700 NM)would leave western Africa and pass through N.E Brazil and then up to near Caracas.
I agree with Quico & Santiago on Adam Isacson. Though he isn't particularly fond of Alvaro Uribe and particularly of Plan Colombia, I don’t think this qualifies him for PSF status. I saw him speak a couple of times in DC and I have read a number of his papers. He makes cogent, well-researched arguments. (I wish I had some cites offhand, but that would require digging through all my grad school notes.)
Isacson is also a proponent of the US increasing non-military aid to Latin America, a position that I’m guessing Weisbrot, Golinger et al. aren’t too keen on.
Adam Isaacson...is he or isn't he? It's like the Kevin Kline movie...
there's a lot of mystery surrounding the Iran Air flights... check out the first person account (and pics) of what the Ccs-Teheran flight is like on Airliners.net (article section) ... sorry I'm too lazy to look up the link now
John,
I believe the plane stops in Damascus and then it's nonstop to Maiquetía. From what I hear, it's a 747 that flies mostly empty.
John, they started the route with vintage 747SPs and fly Ccs-Damascus-Teheran but depending on the load and weather, they have to refuel in France. They are also using long-haul Airbus leased to Venezuela and sub-leased to Iran.
Here is a must read trip report
http://www.airliners.net/aviatio...ad.main/107603/
Also check out airliners.net forums and youtube for more info on this flight from airplane buffs around the world.
There are fewer than 15 Boeing 747SPs in flying condition so getting to fly on this rare bird is a sought out experience for some.
Adam is PSF in my book. I know Adam from when he first went to Venezuela around 4 years ago... he has seen some of the light but not all... still gives Chavez benefit of the doubt.
A PSF but not on the take.
Sanctions against Iran means that they cannot buy or lease Boeing and Airbus aircraft newer than six years (or something like that). Venezuela skirts the sanctions by using a vintage A340 that is older than this.
While on sanctions subject, USG is diligently looking at Venezuela for busting Iranian sanctions... don't know the current status.
thanks for the read, GWEH. The writer could give a rat's arse about Tehran-Caracas relations, just check out the vintage plane!
That answers the question of how Air Iran gets to Venezuela. Thanks. A bunch of guns, ammo and other assorted stuff and a few operatives doesn't take up much space or add that much wieght.
Guys, I looked up at a video in Youtube on the Teheran-Maiquetía thing and it is absolute rubbish. It was just some mixing of videos about weapons in Iran, then some stuff on board an Air Iran airplane (which could have been from anywhere) and a veil-stewardess and then a plane landing in Maiqueita. Please!
Can anyone point out at some decent link? I would expect at the very least to see some guardia nacional telling someone with a video-camera that he cannot film in the terminal, some hand on the video camera, something.
I'm not suspicious because the story may not be true (I have no way of knowing) but for the lack of questions of porportionality and significance.
That is, even if true, how important is it?
The FARC get their strength from producing and selling hundreds of millions of dollars worth of cocain, not from Chavez.
well, kep, it does dispel the rumor that passengers disembark from a separate part of the airport.
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