cheers on the props! the answer to that ill-posed question was great!
Minerva Oblongata | 05.18.06 - 1:17 pm | #

Why exactly is it a crap question? By "Mexicans," I was referring to race, not Mexican, non-US citizens. It's a reasonable question to ask. We've seen how passionate those involved in the immigration issues can be with the recent protests, and even though some Republicans are pro-immigration, the whole party is so wishy-washy on the ordeal that Hispanics might vote straight Democrat in the hope of party-line voting. And though the illegals can't vote, their legal relatives can.

Don't worry, after the election, I'll surely be back to haunt you if they turn up to the polls in mass numbers to vote. I'm adding this entry to my favorites list now so it'll be easy to find.
Simon Owens | Homepage | 05.19.06 - 12:22 am | #

good. it is probably a good idea for you, mr. owens, to visit this question again...it could use some re-thinking. especially given your comment above that reads:

By "Mexicans," I was referring to race, not Mexican, non-US citizens.

it isn't even clear to which group you mean by your question. "mexican" is not a race, it is a nationality made up different races, religions, etc. that may a good place for you to start next time.
Minerva Oblongata | Homepage | 05.19.06 - 7:14 am | #

Simon,

As Minerva notes, Mexicans are not a race any more than "Americans" or "Chinese" are a race. No "Mexican", to the best of my knowledge, has ever voted in the United States.

Your words may indeed come back to haunt someone, and that someone is you.
Baylen | Homepage | 05.19.06 - 7:54 am | #

Since when was it not considered a race? I've spent the majority of my life in Chester County Pennsylvania, where there's a very high percentage of Mexican workers who work the Mushroom farms in that area. In fact, the graduating class in Kennet Square was made up of 20% Mexican. Every time a reference was made to them, by both the whites and themselves, they were referred to as "Mexicans," and almost all of these were legal citizens who were able to vote. Comics who specialize in race humor very frequently refer to different nationalities when referring to race, even when the people in question are legal citizens. The term "Mexican" is commonly-used in the United States as a racial label, often by Mexicans themselves, and your semantics games won't change that.
Simon Owens | Homepage | 05.19.06 - 12:44 pm | #

To continue, many different races refer to their ancestoral countries when labeling their race. My friend Cella, who is a US Citizen, when asked about her race, would say that she's Korean.

Of course we wouldn't say "American" is a race, because it's not a very homogenous society. By your own criticisms, we couldn't use the word African-American as a race term, since Africa as a continent is made up of dozens of religions, cultures, and skin tones, and in some part of it there are high percentages of whites! In fact, when referring to race, people are often extremely general, thereby refuting your point even more. A Chinese-American, for instance, will often be characterized by whites as an Asian, which includes an incredible diversity of races since very often different Asian nationalities refuse to marry and interbreed because of cultural dislikes.

Historically, first, second, and third generation immigrants have always referred to their ancestoral roots as labels. When the Irish immigrated to the United States in the 19th century, they didn't call themselves Irish Americans, Irish-immigrants, they referred to themselves as the Irish, even after several generations of US Citizenship.

So your point is silly, and tries to nitpick at something you obviously didn't give much thought to or know little to nothing about.
Simon Owens | Homepage | 05.19.06 - 1:24 pm | #

i stand by my idea that a person's country of origin is not their race.
Minerva Oblongata | 05.19.06 - 2:46 pm | #

Simon,

Re: your 1st point...

Since... never. Mexicans have never been a race. Without knowing your race(s), I can pretty much guarantee you that (picking some famous Mexicans) Frida Kahlo, Vicente Fox, Salma Hayek, Jorge Campos, Subcomandate Marcos, and that guy on Telemundo who dresses up like a bee share the same amount of DNA as do you and I and Mr. T. This is not to say that individual residents of Mexico cannot be racially categorized, if you so wish.

Anyone who refers to a person born in Mexico as a "Mexican" is talking perfect sense. To refer to a person not born in Mexico (but who may have a parent or parents born in Mexico) as a "Mexican" is simply incorrect. To take it a step further and refer to "Mexicans" as a race is to either trumpet a high level of ignorance or to belong to a group of people (not a race) known as "racists", or both. Do you count yourself a member of one or both of these groups?

Re: your 2nd point...

Tell Cella that she's welcome to refer to herself as a member of the "Korean" race, but that there is in fact no "Korean" race.

Though I think you were being facetious, I agree with you that the term African-American is useless for the very reasons you cite.

As for the Irish, they did not choose to perpetuate the "Irish" label; immigrants from Ireland were actually labeled "Irish" by the English ("No blacks. No Irish. No dogs." read the signs outside London pubs, for example) and by those in the U.S. who similarly looked down on them as second-class citizens and -- certainly -- not as "White".

My point is that you are wrong when you refer to "Mexicans" as a race of people. You may find the fact that I am correct to be "silly", but that does not make me any less correct.
Baylen | Homepage | 05.19.06 - 2:57 pm | #

Don't worry, I'll be sure to inform Cella that Baylen from the blog To The People, the ultimate authority on race (so much so that he need not cite any sources), has said that she is not Korean (even though Koreans ARE a distinct race who look very different from Chinese and other asian races). Perhaps you can tell me what race she belongs to? And I'll also let the high-ratio second and third generation Mexican population that I grew up with that they are not to refer to themselves as Mexican, because of Baylen's simple ability to just repeat what he said in his previous comment without adding anything new, other than the incorrect notion that the Irish didn't refer to themselves as Irish several generations in (when in fact they did, I know you probably don't know this, but ethnicities still have strong nationalistic ties even several generations in, this is why blacks today still manage to dicard their "slave names" even though they've never been slaves). Hell, my father, who owns a construction company, has hired several workers who label themselves Irish, though they are fourth generation American citizens. I'll give him a call and tell him to let them know as well, because a silly man on the internet has took it upon himself to define race, and hasn't figured out that terms like "Mexican" can have several meanings. That darn English language! What were they thinking when they invented it?
Simon Owens | Homepage | 05.19.06 - 11:49 pm | #

Simon,

If your friend Cella is from North or South Korea, then she is Korean. If she's from the United States of America, she's American. She belongs to some racial group, but Korean is not a race any more than Mexican or Canadian is a race.

Here's a collection of various racial classifications from the pretty unimpeachable Wikipedia. Some of these classification schemes have rightly been derided as racist, so I'm not endorsing any such scheme. I'm simply trying to show you that you're wrong. (I've tutored elementary-school students who were quicker to admit an error in their ways than you are.) If you're right -- and can cite someone other than your dad or some of his construction workers -- please feel free to enlighten me.

BTW, your comment about the English language having been "invented"... You're not serious, right? Are you picturing a bunch of racially English guys sitting around a table and inventing a language? This sounds like something Bill O'Reilly would idiotically claim. Please say you're not being serious, or else there's really no hope for you.
Baylen | Homepage | 05.23.06 - 12:50 pm | #

I am no racist, but "Mexican" is unfortunately a product of rape. When the Europeans and conquistadors, raped the people of the land, they created the "race" we call mexican. This doesn's make them any better or worse than anybody else, but it does mean that mexican is actualy several different races mixed.

Isn't it nixon who made the broad term for hispanic? so you could be cuban one day and hispanic another, depending on your affirmative action needs.
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