That is excellent. I for one have only spent 15 minutes in a bar all month, a new record for me. Even my beloved neighborhood bar has lost its appeal to me, and that is saying something.

The fact is that most ban supporters aren't bar/nightlife people and aren't more likely to go out than they were before, as they don't go out period and the one or two times per month that they do is not enough to sustain the bars' lost business.
Leonardo | 01.26.07 - 12:42 pm | #

from seattle, we feel your pain
Philip Dawdy | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 3:01 pm | #

You guys are welcome in Baltimore. We are enjoying what is likely to be our last smoke filled year as the council as tried repeately (w/out success) to enact a ban. But boy is it nice while we still have it.
Rob | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 3:25 pm | #

Take heart bans are being refused in other States and Counties. Fight them all the way, the Pro Ban merchants may have millions from Big Pharma but the truth is getting out. In England we are taking a Judicial Review and we now have one of the top 4 parties wishing to back us. We can deliver millions of voters on this one issue and we intend to alter the face of British politics.

Robert Feal-Martinez
www.freedom2choose.co.uk
Robert Feal-Martinez | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 7:27 am | #

I am part of a growing group campaigning at the moment to allow Regulated Indoor Air Quality and CHOICE in pubs and clubs of the UK. We have many friends in the USA who have been helping us over the past year. The ban in Scotland has had terrible social effects and as England is set to join them in July, we are trying to take the Government to court via Judicial Review of the law. Join us at www.freedom2choose.co.uk. and forum and www.thebigdebate.org. Carry on fighting all you on the other side of the pond! Loraine.
Loraine McGregor | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 11:08 am | #

You should be aware that your poll was probably rigged by UK associates of Loraine and Robert - they have many insomniacs willing to multiple vote, and have instructions about how to do this on their website.
Mary Kelly | 01.27.07 - 12:57 pm | #

Sounds like sour grapes to me Mary. You lost another poll. Again.

I always try to vote twice to see if a poll CAN be rigged. I could only vote once in this instance.

Why is a UK citizen voting at all? Well, next month I will be in D.C for a trade show and I usually stay in a DC hotel, and just like my colleagues, usually spend a small fortune in bars and restaurants. Not this year.

Somewhere between 60-80 of us (from the UK) will be staying at hotels in VA rather than in Washington as a direct result of the recent smoker ban. We are taking our wallets where we are treated like human beings and not forced outside to smoke. We have many US friends who feel the same and will also be staying in a smoker friendly state.

Remember to thank your small minded lawmakers for this loss of revenue.
Colin Grainger | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 1:47 pm | #

I have been to Florida three times with my family and we loved it.
We did have other places we would like to visit.
Now we will only go to countries that welcome us all together. Inside and out.
I am also horrified how some of your elderly citizens have been forced out to have a smoke. That is not very christian or civil.
We who are fighting for choice are fighting this because the USA is where this propaganda started is it not.
Intolerance leads to hatred.
Not all of us believe in the lies that are fed to us from the media.
Did they ever find the weapons of mass distruction? Is anyone going to be held accountable?
For all you who suffer from paranoia, I suggest you go and google the dangers of your drink, your food, diesal, your beauty products, your bathing products, your cleaning products.
There is not one illness that a smoker will get that a non-smoker will not.
Mandy | 01.27.07 - 5:19 pm | #

Who is this Mary Kelly and which universe does she inhabit?
Blad Tolstoy | 01.27.07 - 6:56 pm | #

Colin, Mandy and Blad are all members of Robert and Lorraine's posse, all based int he uk and all interfering in US business.

Colin even admits to voting in this poll and he's from Scotland
Mary Kelly | 01.28.07 - 4:11 am | #

I for one had no idea about this poll prior to reading of it on www.thebigdebate.org. I certainly never voted. Who knows who Mary is, history tells us it's probably not her real name, as we know from www.morningadvertiser.co.uk most anti smokers, pro ban people do not reveal their identitities. Which is rather ironic as they suggest they have the support of the majority of the world over this issue.
robert Feal-Martinez www.freedom2choose.co.uk
Robert Feal-Martinez | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 4:14 am | #

Well Mary you know who we are so who are you, Jon, the Alberts, JM, or is it Ron L, not forgetting Tim. Whoever you are you must be fraudulently accessing the big debate site. So be honest, whoops forgot anti smokers can't be ASH etal say, whatever you do don't tell the truth that passive smoking is harmful Big Pharma won't. F2C people are proud of who we are, that can't be said of the worker ants ASH recruit.
Robert Feal-Martinez | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 5:01 am | #

Robert
I am none of these people.

You posted a link to this from your website freedom to choose. Did you not know that?

This also openly informs the world that the scottish leader is Colin Grainger, English leader is you and welsh one is Blad Tolstoy, all of who posting on this US website. I suspect you just dont like the world to know about the poll fixing techniques that you successfully use in the uk.
Mary Kelly | 01.28.07 - 5:48 am | #

Mary put simply as far as polls are concerned you are a liar. What we did was set about to expose the lies from Cancer Research UK and how they manipulated their own polls to give the results they wanted. They did this firstly by block emailing their supporters mainly through their links with ASH and before any one else got to hear of the polls they got their massive majorities and then pulled the poll, publishing the results as independent research. We simply proved that by our supporters doing the same, and even then even though we photo'd the page literally minutes before it was pulled showing I think an 89% majority against total ban, the results were produced after insistance from F2C and it showed just a 52% majority against bans and the pro ban element had risen from 24% to 44%. It is not F2C who are the con artists here but ASH and the others in the pay of Big Pharma. But returning to your point about the F2C site, do I take it you have registered as a member or do you just trowl passive smoking debate sites. You still have not indicated who you are, and your particular stance on this issue. You know we stand what about you.
Robert Feal-Martinez | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 6:27 am | #

Robert
Are you saying that your colleagues on the big debate site have never been given instructions about how to multiple vote (by deleting cookies or other straightforward means),never been encouraged to go and vote on polls, never come back and gloated about how the vote has been altered overnight in your favour?
You can't say yes because you know that would be a lie, and you know that your site contains evidence that demonstrates it.
Mary Kelly | 01.28.07 - 8:26 am | #

Just came onto this site and must thank Mary for pointing me toward the British Group.
There's a lot of interesting stuff on there. I never knew anti-smoking groupsy asked people worldwide to send pro-forma emails to politicians when they are debating local bans.

What a con
Brewsky | 01.28.07 - 11:33 am | #

So Mary you have exposed yourself to be an even bigger liar you stated your information came from the F2C site when I stated you must have used fictitious details to access thebigdebate.org.uk. You are now saying your allegations are based on postings on the TD site. There is no point in further dialogue you are obviously a worker ant for ASH and not a very good one. Every single comment you make is without foundation, so unless you are prepared to back it up with some substance please apologise to all those by implication you have slandered.
Brewsky glad you appreciate the information, you have months of catching up to do. Hope you've visited www.freedom2choose.co.uk
Robert Feal-Martinez | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 1:47 pm | #

Robert
I am as much a worker ant for ASH as you are for the tobacco industry (unless you really ARE a tobacco industry stooge, in which case you are way more worker ant than me)

None of my statements are without foundation which is why you wont deny what your little friends have been up to (poll fixing)
Mary Kelly | 01.28.07 - 3:17 pm | #

Robert
I've been on the site and followed an ASH link it featured - http://www.ash.org/pledge.html
I thought they were anti-smoking but they really want everyone to 'pledge allegiance' to them.
Who do they think they are?
My flag comes before them!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brewsky | 01.28.07 - 4:28 pm | #

Mary,

I dont see what the problem is. As I said, I will be in DC next month. The poll asks if I will be more or less likely to drink in DC bars. I voted that yes, I am unlikely to frequent bars in which I am not really wanted. I believe in this instance I am a stakeholder.

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, international visitors to the USA have an option. They can visit smoke friendly, or smoke free establishments. This time around, my friends and colleagues intend to punish a bad decision by your lawmakers. We will take our business elsewhere. I estimate the loss to DC restaurants, bars, hotels, even car hire firms to be in the region of $500,000 just from my small group alone. If you had left us with a choice, even 25% of the bars and clubs, we would happily find them, and spend our money in them. I dont know a single smoker that enjoys running in and out of pubs and clubs all night. I find it inhuman, and the height of poor manners. For the sake of harmless smoke.

You are about to learn that smoker bans are never about health. They are about money, money, money.

Anti smoker groups are addicted to our money. It is time for smokers to help them give up that dependency.

By exercising our right not to use smoke free establishments may just wake people up to the hoax.
Colin Grainger | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 5:43 pm | #

Mary, you are definitely not very well. Take a holiday dear, your mind is working overtime.
Blad Tolstoy | 01.28.07 - 7:27 pm | #

Oh don't fret too much Mary these loonies are quite happy to jump on any bandwagon if it furthers their cause.

Whether it's publicans or foreign websites, who cares as long as they persue their malicious agenda?

Such a shame, the yanks think the brits are mad enough as it is, they're just confirming it.
Dave | 01.29.07 - 4:42 am | #

Mary wrote: "Colin, Mandy and Blad are all members of Robert and Lorraine's posse, all based int he uk and all interfering in US business."

Well, I'm based here in Philadelphia... am I part of the posse as well?

::donning posse gear::

In reality of course smoking bans do NOT make people "more likely to go out" since they always had places that banned smoking on their own where they could have gone BEFORE the ban. Some individual places will see an increase in business just by odd chance, but overall bar business goes down and restaurant business probably does too.

What effect do you think it would have on restaurant business if drinkers were required to "just pop outside for a moment" for a few gulps of wine or a quick martini rather than enjoy themselves with their "drug of choice" at the table with their friends or partner? Of course you will see people, on an individual level, making decisions not to go out on a given evening or even reduce their going out drastically out of annoyance at how they and their friends are being treated.

See:

http:// www.illinoissmokersrights...en_studyCA.html

for an analysis of what smoking bans do the bar/restaurant economies in states where they've been enacted. Note: Dave Kuneman and I specifically used figures that are publicly available and performed an analysis that virtually anyone with a high school education can follow. To this date no one has found a speck of fault with either our data or our analysis.

Smoking bans are bad laws based on lies. They can and should be fought, and ultimately they WILL be overturned.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"
http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com
Michael J. McFadden | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 6:59 am | #

Mary, I repeat to have availed yourself of the info you claim you have you must have either fraudulantly visited tbd or know someone that has. I am not evading anything I have explained the issue of Polls, the fact that you choose to repeat the same old lies will not make it the truth. The CRUK polls are designed in that way as I said for them to falsify the result. Unfortunately for them we found this out.
Robert Feal-Martinez | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 8:09 am | #

still not denying that your posse fixed this poll Robert?
Mary xxx
Mary Kelly | 01.29.07 - 1:47 pm | #

Mary you still have not answered Mr Feal-Martinez's question- why do you think a smoking ban is appropriate when passive smoke is less harmful than coffee?? Hopefully now youll answer!!

And Im also American- from Chicago to be exact.

Also what makes you think that a smoking ban on private property(bars and taverns and restaurants are NOT public) is compatible with democracy and the principles my great country was founded on?? And please answer my question Mary!!
Pablo | 01.29.07 - 6:39 pm | #

Mary has disappeared Pablo.

Two tough questions in a row is more than any anti smoker jihadi can stomach.....
Colin Grainger | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 7:38 pm | #

I thought the remark by "Dave" above that you anti-anti smokers are loonies was funny. Don't smoke myself and don't much care for the smell either, but when I listen to people tell me that cigarette smoke is more dangerous than car exhaust emissions, then I just have to roll over and chuckle. Makes me ask who are the real loonies?

Then they go on about the "tiny tots" being poisoned and I'm still waiting to see them all keeling over. Never seen it yet. Also, if second hand smoke is so dangerous how come you never hear about pub landlords clearing away heaps of corpses after a busy pub night?

Stroll on, whatever happened to tolerance? Everyone can have their places to smoke and not to smoke and to be honest, if someone went on to me all the time about something I liked doing I'd tell them in good old fashioned English to
pee off!
Ron Barstow | 01.29.07 - 10:59 pm | #

Colin I guess the antismokers really dont have the brains to answer two questions!

Ron I found it funny too!! And Mary if you really want to prove to us your smarter than my description how about answer Ron's question as well!

I think the tolerance this country was built on is being eroded by the politically correct. Oh what an irony that something created to fight an injustice has created another one!- heres the proof- represented here by Mary and Dave!
Pablo | 01.30.07 - 5:51 am | #

Mary has indeed shown what all anti smokers do, they repeat a question, comment statement and then convince themselves, that it has become a truth and the question has not been answered. So I say for the third time Mary I have answered the Poll question. What about your registration on TBD whose name is it under, clearly not your own.
Robert Feal-Martinez | Homepage | 01.30.07 - 7:37 am | #

Smoke-free air has ALWAYS been good for people and for establishments. Anyone that says differently is a LIAR and probably one of the tobacco pushers or one of their "friends"/mouthpieces. Toxic tobacco smoke KILLS INNOCENT PEOPLE and must be banned everywhere, indoors and out. Then, we eliminate the tobacco drug. Case closed!
Vince | 05.18.08 - 6:41 pm | #