My first bite was a big scary thrill. After that it was normal. I still get excited about seafood and bacon, though. 
You can search my archives for a post on my top ten non-kosher foods if you want.
BJ,
> Honesty
... Is such a lonely word. (Billy Joel)
(Not that it's true. I just like the song. )
>All those times davening at the kotel, trying desperately to feel something, anything -- nothing.
I think I would cry like a baby (at least on the inside) at what I've lost.
Everything else would be the same.
>I think I was a skeptic all along; I just didn't know it.
Not me. Maybe that's why I'd react differently at the Kotel.
have you ever tried McDonalds griled chicken ceasars? really good & the chicken pieces aren't oversalted
You'll feel much better when you have a club sandwich for lunch and lobster for dinner. Start the lobster off with French onion soup.
I am not sure if there is some model similar to the 5 stages of grief (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance) which will at least present some milestones along the journey.
I think it might be the depression stage, to feel indifferent to eating treif.
JA: That was a great post... comments were interesting too! Give me some time and I'll have a list of my own. Right now I'm just enjoying being able to buy decent food when I'm out and hungry, and not paying a ridiculous price for it. But I am still on a budget (and somewhat health conscious) so I won't be eating tonnes of bacon any time soon.
BHB: I like that song too. As for the feeling of loss... I feel it too. But I'm not quite sure what I'm sad about, so I'm not devastated. Just a bit nostalgic for something that wasn't even better.
Flexidox: Not yet... McDonald's isn't high on my priority list but I'm sure I'll eat there someday.
BEAJ: I don't know about seafood. I'm squeamish about it in a way that I'm not about pork... the slime factor grosses me out. I'm indifferent to fish too.
Rick: You might be right. I don't think I'll know until the end of the process... if there is one.
excelent post. What I find interesting is that despite how completely logical this action is (given all we discuss on this and other blogs), it still seems so shocking to me just reading about it. And, a part of me is saying to myself, oh, no, she's going off the derech. Amazing what years of indoctrination can do to you.
BJ, let me just ask you a question. How are you going to feel in 30 years from now when your grandchildren are named Colombo, are baptised Catholics and dislike their weird Jewish relatives? Are you looking forward to attending their First Communion? That's very likely where this is going.
LF: Yes it is incredible!
JP: It makes no difference to me if they're charedi or Catholic, to be quite honest. I wouldn't be happy with either but would respect their choices. I'd be happier if they were LW MO, Reform/Conservative, and even happier if they were the way I'm heading: atheist, but somewhat traditional.
I've got no problems with the name Colombo. We almost gave our baby a Latino name...
when people were becoming egal, the Rabbis would say, if you do this, your kids won't be frum. When people were becoming not frum, the Rabbis would say, if you do this, your kids will intermarry. It's pretty clear that none of us even care if our kids intermarry.
So, see how hard JS has to try to come up with something we'll care about. He know intermarriage won't do. So, he has to go a step further, they'll actually become religious Catholics!! The one thing he knows skeptics can’t stand: religion. But, of course, he fails. To most of us, Catholicism is more or less on par with Judaism. Taking a vaday OJ lifestyle is certainly worse than the sufek our kids might turn out religious Christians.
I actually have a good friend at work who was born and raised in Cairo to Frum Ashkenazi parents, went to Israel in the 50's with the Youth Aliyah and stopped being Frum. Today one daughter is married to an American Jew while the second daughter is married to an Italian Catholic and lives in Rome. She isn't that thrilled and she tells me that she would not advise Frum teenagers to drop out of Yiddishkeit. It hasn't quite turned out the way she expected.
Go ahead and have your KFC if you want, but don't say later "Why didn't anyone ever tell me?"
BJ
I am not observant at all except in participating in cultural & national events such as a 'seder'etc.
Yet,I could never bring myself to eat bacon...I could never get rid of the feeling I have(no doubt through indoctrination-but it's become second nature),that pork is filthy etc.. I think I would thow up if I had some!
The same with eating Biblically non-kosher animals & I coudn't eat a cheeseburger.. otherwise I eat treif all the time.
This reminds me of accounts I read by Jews who converted to Christianity during the Inquisition,they had one condition;to be exempted from eating pork,since it was against their natural instincts.
LF: As usual, right on the money.
JS: Bottom line is, I'm not going to base my life choices on what my grandchildren might or might not do. I'm not (well, hopefully not) going to be bringing them up. My kids will be. I will bring my children up with my values, which include openness to others' beliefs, and then let them raise their kids.
Even at my frummest point, I would never have been the kind of parent to disown a child if they married out, or did anything else that I didn't like. I didn't decide to have kids so that they would be clones of me. They'll do their own thing and if they're happy doing it, then I'll be happy for them.
JFT: Each to his or her own. But I don't believe there's any natural instinct not to eat pork. It's 100% environmental conditioning. Anyway, I haven't eaten it yet so I don't know how I'll do. But it's not taboo in my mind.
The impression I get from you blog is that you aren’t searching for "the truth” and you aren’t thinking about long-range consequences. You’re trying to experiment and find out what feels good now. I hate to rain on your parade, however that’s not really too smart, as many people older and wiser will tell you.
How about Kangaroo meat ? Thats at least unique. Bacon, big deal all my Christian friends eat bacon. Now if you lived in China a nice piece of rats tail might do it. Avi
It all depends upon your indoctorination. My ultra ortho relatives would give extra tzdaka and wear sackcloth if they unintentionally digested a Haagen Daz ( not cholov yisrael) My bubby (may she rest in peace) would have a cardiac episode if the wrong tablecloth were used. AS for me I am flexidox. What is flexidox? It's lifestyle I have chosen that permits me to live in the envoirnment I was raised and not do most of the ritual nonsense
JS: I'm going to take my cue from you and just ignore what you've said. Since you never respond directly to what I've taken the time to write to you, why should I bother?
Avi: I'll work on the regular stuff before moving onto more exotic dishes I think!
Flexidox: I like your approach and I hope that we'll end up in a similar lifestyle eventually, when I'm ready to "come out" to my parents.
That’s interesting. I wonder if the reason I may not always respond to your comments is because you have blocked me from commenting; unless I go to the trouble of using a neighbor’s Internet connection or special software to change my IP address.
But as far as “the truth” goes, where in your blog do you refer to evidence from archeology, cosmology, paleontology, etc. which might contradict Torah? I haven’t noticed it. Instead you write about a relative dying, a relative being rude to you, a relative whom who don’t want to anger, etc. This seems to be driving your lifestyle choices. Please don’t pretend otherwise.
js
youre one to talk about talking about relatives.
im not mekabel the loshon hara that your neighbor also has internet.
didnt your rabbanim assur it in monsey?
sounds like you do have a taaveh after all. bj is food, yours has been called the worst machla since hitler.
JS: What bullshit. You posted a comment after mine, however it wasn't a reply to what I said to you. And don't pretend that it's so hard to use an anonymizer. Give me a break.
However thanks for the mental image of the weirdo saying to his neighbor, "Excuse me, can I use your internet for a minute? I need to go harass someone who doesn't share my beliefs."
Really, it seems so likely that you would bother doing that.
JS, the problem with you, as with many believers, is that you feel that we owe each and every one of you, a personal explanation.
It's just not like that.
So, BJ, as I understand it, I think you're agreeing with me. Your beliefs have everything to do with emotion, anger, convenience and relationships and nothing to do with logic.
You do share with us that at one point you asked a rabbi some questions and were unhappy with his answers, however you never bother to tell us what the questions were. Seemingly, that’s not too important.
I would personally advice you to get off the web, get to a good psychiatrist and work on your personality disorders. That would probably be more constructive.
JP,
>I would personally advice you to get off the web, get to a good psychiatrist and work on your personality disorders. That would probably be more constructive.
That is funny coming from you.
It's so interesting watching you fall back to the same insults time and time again, JS. Obviously they aren't to be taken personally, since you throw them at every skeptic you see.
JS--
The only people I know (apart from you) who made it a point to apply a diagnosis of mental instability to everyone who disagreed with them was the folks who ran the Soviet Union.
It's a wonderful mechanism for winning an argument, provided you have the political authority to throw someone in a mental hospital and pump them full of drugs.
Since (fortunately) you can't do that, perhaps you might try a different tack for a change?
"JP: It makes no difference to me if they're charedi or Catholic, to be quite honest. I wouldn't be happy with either but would respect their choices. I'd be happier if they were LW MO, Reform/Conservative, and even happier if they were the way I'm heading: atheist, but somewhat traditional."
Time will tell. I don't pretend to understand your ostensible noncaring attitude. Is it selfdelusion to be wiped out at a later age? I don't know. I do know that your kids are young and it's easy for you to say now you don't care and also the intelectual world will change too. If you change with it than it becomes harder to pin down. If I knew that you really know yourself I could feel more confidense in understanding you.
No, you wouldn't understand it, because you think Judaism is right. I believe that all religions are equally false so if my kids become fundamentalist of any religion I will be equally upset. However if they maintain Jewish tradition I will be only slightly more pleased than if they're secular, because I think maintaining tradition has value.
As for whether my views will change, I can't know that, but I don't see myself going back to religion unless some solid proof for it arises.
No I don't understand but it's not because of my belief in Judaism. I can understand other people's points of view and motivations. I don't understand yours and I'm not sure you do either. I also don't know how you would really react to your kids joining another religion. You do care.
I think I've made my point of view pretty clear. If you don't understand it that's because of the limitations of your own point of view.
No it's because I don't know you enough.
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