BJ!
Great to hear from you! Can you imagine, I attend shiur on a regular basis. Sometimes I'm succesful at just shutting off my skepticsm and going with the flow, but It's getting harder and harder. We once learn't Hilchos Avodah Zarah and that was really tough. The attitude about Non-jews was abominable. Let them die in a pit; Not permitted to eat from their cooking even if Kosher, Not permitted to rent your field to them in Israel, etc. Really exclusionary stuff. We have our own Dimmi System.
What were you doing at a shiur? Back in the kitchen, woman!
Anotherskeptanon,
Indoctrination of women is a pre-requisite to keep them from revolting, as I imagine you are well aware.
"Jeeeez, what century are we in here?"
Pick one you like! After all, the rabbis did...
I recently had a vaguely similar experience, as my rabbi told a (dreadful) story that centered on whether it was acceptable to pray for a gentile. I was appalled, and told him so. Like the notion of stoning people for violating Shabbos, the notion of insisting that gentiles count for less frightens me. It seems a little too much akin to the motivating ideas behind Islamic extremism...
The Prohibition of Kotzer on Shabbat
The third of the thirty-nine categories of forbidden activity on Shabbat is Kotzer, or reaping fruits from the tree on which they have grown. This includes as well detaching branches or leaves from trees on Shabbat.
In order to safeguard against violations of this prohibition, the Sages issued a Gezeira (decree) forbidding making use of trees on Shabbat, fearing that one who uses a tree may mistakenly detach a fruit or branch, in violation of Shabbat. Thus, for example, it is forbidden to hang or simply place one's jacket on a branch of a tree on Shabbat, or to take one's jacket off a tree on Shabbat. Furthermore, it is forbidden to even lean against a tree or climb a tree on Shabbat. In fact, if one climbs a tree on Shabbat despite being fully aware of the prohibition, he must remain there for the rest of Shabbat; the Sages issued a penalty upon such a person, forbidding him from coming down from the tree until after Shabbat. Hence, children may not play in a tree-house on Shabbat.
THIS IS SUCH A WHACKY HALACHA I MEAN IF A GUY CLIMBS A TREE KNOWING THAT IT'S PROHIBITED THEN HE OR SHE OBVIOUSLY DOESNT GIVE A DAM AND WOULD JUST AS WELL CLIMB DOWN THE TREE SO THIS HALACHA MUST BE REFERING TO SOMEONE WHO CLIMBED UP "BMAIZID" BUT KNOW DECIDED THAT HE WANTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND FOR THAT ARE HOLY ONES ARE GONA HUMILATE HIM BY HAVING THE POOR SCHMUCK STAY UP THERE FOR THE REST OF THE SHABBOS !!!!!!!!
"BJ!
Great to hear from you! Can you imagine, I attend shiur on a regular basis. Sometimes I'm succesful at just shutting off my skepticsm and going with the flow, but It's getting harder and harder. We once learn't Hilchos Avodah Zarah and that was really tough. The attitude about Non-jews was abominable. Let them die in a pit; Not permitted to eat from their cooking even if Kosher, Not permitted to rent your field to them in Israel, etc. Really exclusionary stuff. We have our own Dimmi System.
baal habos"
It should be noted that Gentiles in in Avodah Zarah are assumed to be those who lived in the past and were feard because they were pagans with lack of civility. To have a haircut from them was regulated from fear of getting killed. The below can be helpful http://www.jewishencyclopedia.co...&
search=Gentile
"He was talking about why a knife may be used on Shabbat, but a grater may not. His explanation, that a grater is designed to cut things too small, doesn't wash with me. It all seems like part of the plot to keep women in the kitchen for longer. Especially when he said, "I don't have to worry about this, but you do" (it was a women's shiur). Jeeeez, what century are we in here?"
You're not serious are you?
BHB: Thanks for the wb. What is a dimmi system?
Anotherskeptanon: LOL... I think!
Skeptanon: "The peasants are revolting" hey (Monty Python, anyone?)
Morgan: Should I pick a century or a rabbi that I like? 
Eliyuhee: I think you're right.
RG:
"feard because they were pagans with lack of civility"
I think this is a vast oversimplification that is not historically accurate.
"You're not serious are you?"
About what? About the blatant misogynism and sex discrimination present in Judaism? No. About this particular law being deliberately part of that? Partly.
"RG:
"feard because they were pagans with lack of civility"
I think this is a vast oversimplification that is not historically accurate."
They did not have Western standards.
""You're not serious are you?"
About what? About the blatant misogynism and sex discrimination present in Judaism? No. About this particular law being deliberately part of that? Partly.
Billie Jean"
I can assure you he wasn't making up halachic reasoning.
"The Prohibition of Kotzer on Shabbat
The third of the thirty-nine categories of forbidden activity on Shabbat is Kotzer, or reaping fruits from the tree on which they have grown. This includes as well detaching branches or leaves from trees on Shabbat.
In order to safeguard against violations of this prohibition, the Sages issued a Gezeira (decree) forbidding making use of trees on Shabbat, fearing that one who uses a tree may mistakenly detach a fruit or branch, in violation of Shabbat. Thus, for example, it is forbidden to hang or simply place one's jacket on a branch of a tree on Shabbat, or to take one's jacket off a tree on Shabbat. Furthermore, it is forbidden to even lean against a tree or climb a tree on Shabbat. In fact, if one climbs a tree on Shabbat despite being fully aware of the prohibition, he must remain there for the rest of Shabbat; the Sages issued a penalty upon such a person, forbidding him from coming down from the tree until after Shabbat. Hence, children may not play in a tree-house on Shabbat.
THIS IS SUCH A WHACKY HALACHA I MEAN IF A GUY CLIMBS A TREE KNOWING THAT IT'S PROHIBITED THEN HE OR SHE OBVIOUSLY DOESNT GIVE A DAM AND WOULD JUST AS WELL CLIMB DOWN THE TREE SO THIS HALACHA MUST BE REFERING TO SOMEONE WHO CLIMBED UP "BMAIZID" BUT KNOW DECIDED THAT HE WANTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND FOR THAT ARE HOLY ONES ARE GONA HUMILATE HIM BY HAVING THE POOR SCHMUCK STAY UP THERE FOR THE REST OF THE SHABBOS !!!!!!!!
ELIYUHEE"
Where could I find this?
"BHB: Thanks for the wb. What is a dimmi system?"
Jews and Christians had to live under Muslms as second class citizens payig a special tax.
"About the blatant misogynism and sex discrimination present in Judaism? No."
You set the question up in a loaded way. Misogyny means hatred of women. Sex discrimination is a topic to itself. A single difference you can call discrimination if you wish. I was talking about Shabbos in any event.
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