I had just watched that video a few minutes before you posted. I've never considered myself a "radical" but the whole time I watched it, I was hoping the students would start a bona-fide riot.
dr. dave | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 8:36 am | #

You cheese eating surrender monkeys need to realize that in order to make quiche, we have to taser a few eggs. For all you know, that guy could have been planning to bomb the library. I'm sure once we get through waterboarding him, he'll confess his plans to destroy America.

But will you have the courage to thank the conservatives for saving your lame campus-library ass? I doubt it. Traitors.
No Nym | 11.16.06 - 8:38 am | #

BTW, I thought the UC system was open campus? What gives with the "Show usss your papersss!!!"?
No Nym | 11.16.06 - 8:41 am | #

Interesting, the student responses. I especially liked the crew-cut white kid at the end who said, with a little smirk on his face, that the cops "probably did the right thing" in "escorting" Tabatabainejad out.
The Nefarious Leslie | 11.16.06 - 9:36 am | #

I'm pretty sure LA-area law enforcement and quasi-law enforcement officers didn't need the Patriot Act to go apeshit on minorities.
norbizness | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 10:02 am | #

AFAIK, UC libraries (at least the one at UCB) are not open access -- you have to be faculty, staff, or a student (summer extension students count) to be allowed entry.

It's always seemed a little weird to me that the Graduate Theological Union (also located in Berkeley) has a more open library access and circulation policy than Cal does.
Lexica | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 10:20 am | #

Oy. It's like living in Portland all over again. (Well, sort of. At least Tabatabainejad didn't die. Oregon cops seem to be a little taser-happy, even when the subjects aren't actively dangerous. http://portland.indymedia.org/en...01/ 332829.shtml - Indymedia isn't the most unbiased source in the world, but it's the firrst hit, and covers the basics.)

While I don't think it unreasonable to have a student escorted from an area if they fail to show ID (having lived on a campus where outsiders periodically came in and either stole or vandalized property, I'd rather err on the side of caution in libraries, (computer) labs, and dorms, but not semipublic spaces, like lecture halls and lounges), I think it should mean just that. Escort. Ask for ID. If no ID is produced, walk the person to their dorm (or wherever they said they left it), if a student. If not a student, and they can't produce an ID and reason for being on campus, or a student who can vouch for them, walk them off campus and warn them not to come back without both of those things.

Unless the person attempts some sort of assault (throwing a punch, vandalizing property, taking hostages), there is no reason to use any force. Moderate force (handcuffing, arm on the shoulder, possibly lifting, should the person go limp) may be warranted if the person simply refuses to move. Non-lethal weaponry (taser, mace, nightstick) or mid-range force (full-body restraint, joint locks, restraint against an object, such as a car or wall) might be warranted if the person is an immediate, but non-lethal threat to others (has a weapon and is threatening to use it, in physical confrontation with others, acting extremely erratically in situation where said actions could severely damage nearby people, such as driving). Lethal force, of course, should only be used in situations where there is an immediate threat of lethal violence which cannot be resolved in any other way.

The key is proportion, and that's.. just a really scary overreaction.

And the threats to nearby students, overreaction to asking to see badges, and general bad behavior by the police certainly don't inspire trust.

If anything, that's actually scarier than the initial assault. Though not by any means warranted, one might be able to see (depending on how, exactly, he refused to move, show his ID, etc.) an officer deciding to use a weapon that's been billed as safe, less harmful than anything else in his reperitoire, and (supposedly) on its lowest and least-painful setting. Once. But the fact that it escalated, and that when others tried to intervene, they were threatened too... that just frightens me.

What if he had died? Then all of those people who had asked would get to spend a lifetime second-guessing themselves. "What if I had asked for his badge earlier?" "What if I had screamed, instead?" "What if he had turned that taser on me?"

(And of course, because it's probably the first thing that stands out, and the one that will take the longest to resolve - would they have done this if his name wasn't Tabatabainejad? If, given all of the same actions, he had been a blond guy named Jesse, or even if he'd looked the same but been named Wen Yao, would he have been tasered into a screaming puddle before a crowd of witnesses?)
magniloquence | 11.16.06 - 10:49 am | #

The library computer labs are definitely not open access. The libraries technically aren't either but you don't have to show ID to get in and with the exception of late at night you probably would never be asked for it.

As for this incident it appears that the cops might not have controlled the situation as well as they could have, but I don't think it's clearly an abuse of power. The student was asked (legitimately given library policy) to leave repeatedly. He refused. While the Daily Bruin says he was walking out when the officers took his arm to escort him out, all other news sources say that he went limp when officers tried to escort him out. If he was refusing to leave up until that point I don't think the officers were out of line to take his arm in order to escort him out, even if he was up and walking on his own at that point. On his part the right response at that point would be "ok, I'm going, let me go" not to start screaming at them (which yesterday's daily bruin story said he did). At that point he apparently went limp and refused to leave. I haven't actually watched the video yet due to technical issues but I'm told that the scene is one of the kid screaming don't touch me, and the cops trying to get him to get up, which he won't. Meanwhile a press of students is pushing in.

This strikes me as a case where the police did not do as much as they could have to neutralize the situation. However, it also strikes me as a case of students thinking they have more rights than they do. The cops were right to ask the student to leave. The student refusing to show ID was in the wrong. Students pushing in and yelling "give me your badge number" in the middle of everything were also out of line. And while threatening to tase them wasn't necessarily the best solution probably the students wouldn't have backed off if the cop had said "look I'm busy, I'll give you my information in a minute."

Basically it looks to me, having read the various reports on it so far, like the student was being an ass and the cops treated him as if he might be dangerous rather than treating him like he was just a student who thought he had more rights than he did. It's probably the sort of incident that calls for re-evaluating their procedures but it's totally not clear to me that they broke with procedure in any way.

I can certainly see being concerned about the question of whether this kid was picked out due to his ethnicity. But at the same time I can't help but wonder if people would be up in arms at all if the exact same thing happened to a middle class white kid?
sarahliz | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 10:54 am | #

it's fairly common for an id to be required in a university library, after I think 12AM it's required in ours.

other than that, this is appalling. I wonder how many white guys they 'randomly' checked?
Anonymous | 11.16.06 - 11:03 am | #

If the racial profiling has gotten you down, try this on to cheer you up. Depressing women's mags from the 1960s

http://a-hole-in-the-head.blogsp...after- many.html
No Nym | 11.16.06 - 11:08 am | #

Fucking speechless.
atypical-pseudonym | 11.16.06 - 11:08 am | #

The video seems to be glitchy, maybe there is a server problem.

I do a lot of travel to libraries for my research, and libraries in/near big cities generally ask for ID. Those in small towns or even cities of modest size, usually not. I know I've gone into the libraries at Duke, UNC Chapel Hill, and University of Iowa and not been checked. Columbia and U of Chicago, you need ID or special permission. Part of it is fear of crime, sure, but also they don't want homeless people coming in to get out of the cold.
Thomas W. Higginson | 11.16.06 - 11:22 am | #

The video is at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4...h? v=4JGlvEcPmug

I think it was the guy's fault. It's always a bad idea to give cops attitude. They tell you to stand up, you do as they say. Don't give them an excuse to mistreat you because the law gives them a lot of leeway on that. The slightest form of verbal or physical resistance is legal grounds for them to rough-handle you. Also, it was pretty obvious the guy was trying to make a statement. What the hell does the patriot act have to do with this ? I don't think the officers even knew he was of arab descent. Anyway, the moral of the story is do what the cops tell you to do and do it quickly. They love to use those tasers and they're looking for the slightest excuse to try them out.
mellstrom | 11.16.06 - 11:27 am | #

and you know if Rodney King wasn't speeding the police wouldn't have clubbed him while he was on the ground either.

I mean really, he should have known, as a black man, to pull over as soon as the police asked him to.
Rob Helpy-Chalk | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 11:45 am | #

I went to college in Oregon and we had serious problems with cops using tasers on students. This is BS. Students are not inherently dangerous, just generally mouthy. If you can't handle a smart ass w/o force, you should NOT be armed. Ever. Much less on a college campus.

As for the comments above about how he dereserved this. No. Just no. I have seen students get tasered becasue they were drunk. Did they deserve it? No. The police love to use this whole "tasers are the safest weapon we have" excuse. They are NOT safe. And should NOT be the first option.

As for what the Patriot Act hs to do with it....he was obviously being racially profiled. That and libraries have been targets since the implementation of the Act.

Here in Boston we are warned that landlords don't rent to law students and lawyers becasue we are "too aware of our rights" (that is a quote from a textbook). Perhaps students in general are "too aware of our rights" or the rights we SHOULD have and have a tendency to rebel when obviously confronted with extremetism.
draconismoi | 11.16.06 - 11:47 am | #

It's a blessing that Rosa Parks did not show the same attitude to police use and abuse of power as some of the commenters here and most on YouTube.

I used to think that policing by consent was one of the key elements in a functioning democracy. That would include, surely, asking any police officer to explain his action or his attitude without being threatened.

Being tazered four times constitutes potentially lethal force and I'm pretty sure it's not in the police's "how to do it" handbook.

I do worry, from a great distance, at the way so many Americans seem to have lost the plot entirely.
maureen | 11.16.06 - 12:05 pm | #

I can't possibly see how tasering a man who is down because he refuses to get up is justified. At least the cops in the Rodney King case could claim that King was trying to stand up, and thus posed a potential threat. This guy, while he may have talked back and was non compliant, was clearly not a threat.

Over at youtube people are trying to justify this by saying "you people don't understand how police forces operate. You are allowed to use a taser for noncomplaince." The move is rhetorically powerful "I know more than you do, so I can dismiss your viewpoint." It is also complete bullshit. It says nothing about the ways the rules might be interpreted by reasonable people or the legitimacy of the rules themselves.

Someone is on tape tasering a helpless person. No amount of calling people crybabies or discussing police procedure is going to make this look ok.
Rob Helpy-Chalk | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 12:06 pm | #

You know, I think people at youtube are watching this they way americans used to watch bear baiting. "Taze him again! Taze him again!" A sadistic spectacle for authoritarian assholes.

For every bully there are five or six chicken shits who identify with the bully and love to watch him work.
Rob Helpy-Chalk | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 12:14 pm | #

It's campus police trying out for LAPD.
The Misanthrope | 11.16.06 - 12:34 pm | #

Sarahliz, Mellstrom, guess what? Sitting down and going limp are *classic* methods of *non-violent passive resistance*.

And it can be really fucking hard to stand up after you've been tazered.

The student was a student. He had every right to use the library. The library has a policy that says he has to *demonstrate* that right, but nonetheless, he has the right to use the library, whether or not he has his i.d. with him.

And he is a *student*. Campus police, all police, need to be able to deal with the fact that students are highly likely--as well they should be, and so should all of us--to exercise their right not to be bossed around.

I am absolutely appalled that anyone thinks this is even remotely justified. What is this country coming to?
bitchphd | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 1:10 pm | #

Frankly I am more than disturbed by this incident. There have been numerous reports of over-zealous (so-called) law enforcement offers using Tasers indiscriminately, even on children. Had "No Nym" clicked on Dr B’s link, "No Nym" would have found this: “According to an ACLU report, 148 people in the United States and Canada have died as a result of the use of Tasers since 1999.” It only takes ONE Taser shock to subdue a person. Multiple shocks borders on torture; and once tortured, always tortured.

In the 1960s, the same year as the Kent State massacre, I was a college student who pulled my 50 cc motor scooter into a gas station for a fill-up. Within moments a cop came to inspect my bike, claiming that it was out of inspection. I pointed out a new inspection on the frame, a new inspection sticker less than one week old. The cop said: "Boy, are you accusing me of being a lair.”

That evening I spend two fun-filled hours in the police station while 2 cops hovered over me slapping their fists with blackjacks trying to intimidate me. At one point, fearing the worst, I made the claim that I was at least entitled to make a phone call. The cop handed me a phone, and I called a classmate whose father I knew to be a local judge. The judge got on the phone and berated the cops. I was released immediately.

Yes, Virginia, there are sadistic lowlifes who become cops and abuse their power and engage in torture. I am frankly shocked at some of the comment in this forum. Maybe you have never experienced abuse by police. I have and will never forget it.
Jeffrey Berger | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 1:32 pm | #

No Nym at least was being sarcastic. As to the others... I'm reminded of some discussions regarding the beating deaths of some Iraqi teens by British soldiers. It seems like some people don't want to believe that authority figures can be or do bad things.
D | 11.16.06 - 1:43 pm | #

Yup, there are some cops on power trips. I remember being in Indiana in my VW Bug as an undergrad on summer break. I had a Darwin fish placard on the back of the car, and I was filling up at a gas station. Two cops pulled up behind me, one got out, patted his gun in his holster, pointed out the Darwin fish, and said "we don't like your kind around here. Fill up, and move on." I was 20 years old, female, and 120 pounds soaking wet, and by this point, scared shitless. And I vowed driving off NEVER to go to Indiana again, a promise I have kept to this day.
beetlerama | 11.16.06 - 1:43 pm | #

I actually had a cop say "we don't like your kind around here" to me once, too. I had never encountered such a living stereotype before.

Later a teacher of mine suggested I respond by saying "It's quiet out there, sherif...too quiet."
Rob Helpy-Chalk | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 1:50 pm | #

D,
For some reason, I don't see the "sarcasm" in No Nym's remarks. I found it extrememly offensive, having lived through a similar experience myself and now finding the pendulum swinging back to the same hysteria I thought got buried back in the 1960s.
Jeffrey Berger | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 1:54 pm | #

Note:This starts with a RANDOM (snicker snicker) ID check of a middle eastern looking student. For a student to be in the library without Id wasn't a crime.

God, its excruciating. Minute after minute of the police using torture to gain obedience. Once the cuffs were on, its all Abu Garib. There simply is no legal basis for what they did.

From the tone of the pigs (and I haven't used that term in 20 years) they never once sound like they believe themselves or others to be in danger of imminent harm. Its all about power.

A big megaphone message to all the students present about the pain of disobedience. It's right out of a sci-fi horror movie, or a behind-bars movie where the students are the prisoners getting taught the price of disobedience.
mirror | 11.16.06 - 1:59 pm | #

Jeffrey: If you hang out here long enough, you will learn nym's sense of humor. Also, "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" is a phrase from The Daily Show, which is a bit of a clue if you recognize it.
Rob Helpy-Chalk | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 2:02 pm | #

It could have been worse -- at least the other students in the library reacted like decent people, with outrage and demands for the cops' badges.

I wouldn't have been surprised if they'd all opted to keep their heads down; the way things are going I wouldn't have been hugely surprised to see them cheering the bastards on.
Felix | 11.16.06 - 2:09 pm | #

And it can be really fucking hard to stand up after you've been tazered.

Shouldn't this be the main point? I mean, really, the world does need academics, if only to do a little research. According the University of California Police Department:

The Hiring, Training and Backgrounds Unit worked to recruit and qualify candidates for several police and dispatch positions. We have enhanced the roll-call training program by interfacing it with the California P.O.S.T.'s police training DVD series. We are also in the beginning phases of transitioning to using the Advanced X26 Taser in the field.

Now, I wonder what a Taser X26 does, according to its instruction manual [.pdf]:

TASER-induced strong muscle contractions usually render a subject temporarily unable to control his or her psychomotor movements. This may result in secondary injuries such as those due to falls. This loss of control, or inability to catch oneself, can in special circumstances increase the risk(s) of serious injury or death.

But but but, it's only temporary. Well then, it's a good thing they didn't taser him multiple times, or (as the instruction manual says):

When practical, avoid prolonged or continuous exposure(s) to the TASER device's electrical discharge. In some circumstances, in susceptible people, it is conceivable that the stress and exertion of extensive repeated, prolonged, or continuous application(s) of the TASER device may contribute to cumulative exhaustion, stress, and associated medical risk(s).

"Cumulative exhaustion"? What? Like that'd stop someone from getting up? I'm sorry, I don't know the specifics, but if the instruction manual clearly states that the student may have been physically incapable to comply with the officers' requests, you'd think that'd be important. Maybe even, I don't know, reflect poorly on the way campus police officers are trained?
Scott Eric Kaufman | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 2:10 pm | #

Rob,
If wrong, then my apologies. As stated above: "Once tortured, always tortured." Memories of that incident do get my adrenalin pumping with anger, having lost so many friends during the dark time of the Vietnam War. And here we are again as if history taught us nothing. Sometimes one's feelings of outrage fog one's reading sensibilities.
Jeffrey Berger | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 2:16 pm | #

Jeff, No Nym followed his first (completely ironic) comment with a more sincere one asking why a UC campus was demanding identification. Yeah, he's good.

That said, no worries: I delete genuinely assholish comments.
bitchphd | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 2:25 pm | #

I can't believe people think this was justified. Bouncers do a good job of getting drunk, agressive people out of bars without tasers; why getting a student out of a library is so much harder is beyond me.

And if we assume that "resisting" by going limp justifies repeatedly using the taser on someone, what about the campus cop who threatened another student? An officer is REQUIRED BY LAW to show a badge or ID when requested, NOT threaten someone who's interrupting their power trip.
watson | 11.16.06 - 2:41 pm | #

"From the tone of the pigs (and I haven't used that term in 20 years) they never once sound like they believe themselves or others to be in danger of imminent harm. Its all about power."

I totally agree with this statement. The cops are captured on the video saying to the student, over and over, "Stand up, stand up," and "We just want you to stand up." When he didn't comply, they tasered him-- even though he's clearly lying on the ground and/or handcuffed for the last several minutes of the video. After the first shock (which isn't clearly visible or audible on the videotape), all the other taser shocks were clearly punishment for disobeying.

However, I don't think the cops were motivated by sadism. They sound increasingly desperate as the video progresses ("Stand up, stand up!" "We just want you to stand up!") They sound kinda freaked out, actually, kind of scared. I think this is an example of fear-induced bullying, rather than outright sadism. I don't mean this as an excuse-- I don't think bullying of ANY kind is appropriate or right, especially not as part of law enforcement-- but it does make me sad for what our political climate has created. When fear of terrorism becomes so acute that even 20 year old college students are targeted with this kind of excessive force, we know that we have become our own worst enemy.
jeccat | 11.16.06 - 3:00 pm | #

Took a trank, much calmer now ...
Jeffrey Berger | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 3:03 pm | #

The lyrics to "Ohio"? By who? Modest Mouse?
Ryan | 11.16.06 - 3:17 pm | #

Holy Fucking Hell, so that's what they were talking about through the bullhorn over near the Student Union. I'll check around tommorw to see what the buzz is and what is being put together in protest.

And if they don't blow a gasket down in Austin I'll be shocked.

Suddenly makes my worries about getting into that graduate level course seem damn petty.
History Geek | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 3:18 pm | #

HG, would you please email me to tell me if something is going on on the UCLA campus?
bitchphd | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 3:29 pm | #

Jeffrey:

I spent the night in jail once because I protested after being pulled over with my ex (how turned out to have warrent for a old speeding ticket) when they started to search the car which belonged to me. They made me get out and when they opened my trunk and started holing up my ren clothes and the extra bra and panties I kept there, I really got livided and told them that they did not have the right to go in my trunk and qoutes they exactly what my driving instructor had told us years before. They cuffed me and told me I had a warrent out for me for a unpaid ticket, which was bullshit since my last ticket had been three years earlier and I took DD.

I was let out in the morning and told that I'd been given time sereved.

If I hadn't been so ashamed and not wanting my mother to know I'd spent the night in jail I probably would have taken them to court.
History Geek | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 3:30 pm | #

Dr. B,

I'm out here in Texas, but I'll keep my ear to the ground. I'm about to email my friend whose a TA down in Austin to see what the buzz is down there.
History Geek | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 3:35 pm | #

Iranians are not of arabic decend and are not arabs, they r Persians. Common misconception, Iraqis are not arabs either. Lebanese, Jordanians, Saudis etc. are Arabs
eda | 11.16.06 - 3:55 pm | #

I'll second the comment that this may not have been an act of actual sadism. It rather reminds me of "Shooting the Elephant" -- having delivered the threat, ego didn't allow the cops to end the situation without making good. Perpetrating an atrocity like this doesn't even require you to enjoy infliciting pain; all it requires is for someone to believe their reputation will suffer if they don't carry through with the unpleasant deed.
Scott H | 11.16.06 - 3:59 pm | #

I got my PhD on that campus, that was my library, and this was my country, and this is fucking heartbreaking.
Chaser | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 5:52 pm | #

To answer why IDs are asked for at night on UC campuses: Because of the escalating number of sexual assaults on women, which have taken place in libraries, hallways, bathrooms and classrooms. [On my UC alma mater's campus, there have been rapes of students by non-students during the fucking daytime - it's that easy off/easy on freeway access...] IMSHO, it's not unreasonable to have a carry-your-ID-at-all-times rule, nor is it unreasonable to ban unaccompanied persons who are not students/faculty/alumni from parts of the campus at night. It is, however, more than unreasonable to tase someone for being an ass.
DominEditrix | 11.16.06 - 6:07 pm | #

Whether it was motivated by fear or by sadistic pleasure, it was still cruel and wrong and unnecessary.
Joanna | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 6:11 pm | #

Favorite idiot power trip cop quote:

"What, do I look like a lawyer? I don't know what the laws are."
Ms Kate | 11.16.06 - 6:24 pm | #

While the student does have the right to use the library he does not have the right to insist upon remaining in the library after being asked to leave for not showing ID. Going limp is classic non-violent resistance but as it turns out in this case the resistance wasn't justified. The CSO had every right to ask him to leave and to bring in the UCLA police when he didn't. As far as I understand the video picks up after the situation started so we have no idea how things went down in the begining but if I was a cop and I took the arm of a student who was resisting leaving when he was asked and he started screaming not to touch him, I'd be worried about things escalating.

I agree that using the taser was overkill. And I agree that the UCLA police need to examine their policies about when to use the tasers. And threatening the student who asked for his badge was a dumb response under pressure but I can certainly see when you have a press of students pushing at you and are trying to maintain order that the first thing out of your mouth might not be the most sensible thing. I'm not up on the details of the law but I have a hard time imagining that cops are required to give their name and badge number while in the middle of dealing with a situation. Doesn't justify the threat, certainly, but students pushing in on cops really should know better.

It is possible that this was profiling. None of the stories I've seen specify what a random ID check is (that is, rather it's at random times or of random people) so it's unclear who in the CLICC lab was being asked.

All in all if the assertions I've seen about how it all started are accurate I think the behavior of the student was stupid in the first place. The cops treatment of him was overkill. But the whole thing is definitively different from what happened at Kent State. This kid was not part of any organized protest. He resisted a wholly reasonable request to provide ID and leave if he would not. He is quoted as saying "get off me" when the cops attempted to lead him out which isn't a smart way to address a cop. It's unclear from the video whether he'd already been shocked but he's yelling don't touch me in a way that seems completely out of line. He shouldn't have been tased but I don't see him actually doing anything cooperative at any point.

The issue really strikes me as one of policies regarding taser use and force. If they're being told that tasers are the more humane choice, that's a problem. If what they did was (with the exception of replying with a threat when asked for their info) within department procedures then that's an issue at a much higher level. I don't think what happened to this kid was good but I'm not entirely convinced that it was specifically the fault of the cops in question.
sarahliz | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 7:16 pm | #

If you give a cop a "nonlethal weapon" ...
http://cbs4boston.com/ topstories..._195080557.html
Ms Kate | 11.16.06 - 7:18 pm | #

"I can certainly see when you have a press of students pushing at you and are trying to maintain order that the first thing out of your mouth might not be the most sensible thing"

If you're a police officer then it had bloody well better be the most sensible thing(and "overkill" on unarmed handcuffed student is absolutely unacceptable).

Police have far more power than the average citizen and are therefore held to higher standard of behaviour.
Anna | 11.16.06 - 7:50 pm | #

Police have far more power than the average citizen and are therefore held to higher standard of behaviour.

Absolutely right. If they can't act to a higher standard than the average citizen, they have no business receiving extraordinary authority.
Scott H | 11.16.06 - 8:08 pm | #

The comments on the web site that showed the raw video are very disturbing. These commentors watched the video and are not outraged - many of them even think the police was right???! This country is so uncivilized. Scary.

What should the other students have done? They couldn't call the police...
CKM | 11.16.06 - 8:39 pm | #

So stunningly awful I couldn't watch the whole thing.

Yeah, it was good to see the Republicans trounced at the polls, but a whole lot more than Congress needs to change to turn this going-to-hell country around.
Leslie | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 8:51 pm | #

Truly sickening. Imagine though, if cops treat college students like this (with witnesses), how they most likely treat minorities when given the chance. I remember clearly one year I was teaching 8th and 9th grade inner city, Latino students in L.A. and I asked them what they feared the most. I thought it would be "gangs" but they all said unanimously, "cops"! I was pretty shocked as I had always been taught to respect cops and they will use restraint and be civil. These kids have learned to run when confronted, especially if they are innocent and alone. Not a recipe for success. We live in a mean-spirited country, how absolutely tragic.
Sister of Dr. B | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 8:58 pm | #

I've found two different videos of this event, and read the police account and several media accounts. Rather than Ohio, I felt compelled to sing For What It's Worth until my PTSD settled down.

From what I know so far, the student was unwise, and the cops were out of control. I hope they are tried for assault with a deadly weapon, and that the school and the police are sued for one hell of a lot of money.

I got arrested at a Rocky Flats demo twenty-some years ago and thrown onto a bus for transport. When the bus stopped and the police asked us to get off I foolishly asked "Why?"

One of the cops shouted "Resisting arrest!" and I was rapidly handcuffed and tossed in the back of a squad car. I wasn't tasered, and the police had no trouble taking control of my supposedly resisting body. Other people on the bus kept their mouth shut but went limp. They got carried out.

So regardless of what the student was saying, I fail to see why they needed to torture him into compliance. And as others have pointed out, once he was tasered he likely could not have stood up if he wanted to, so their commands to "get up" just amounted to further abuse.

As for the onlookers, I wanted to see them get more active, perhaps putting themselves between the cops and the victim, but can understand why they didn't. They might well have gotten themselves tasered, or worse, and they served well by being law-abiding witnesses to the police brutality. Whatever story the cops make up, it isn't likely to survive the eyewitness testimony and video records of what went down.

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when your always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Doctor G | 11.16.06 - 9:44 pm | #

the sister of a close friend went to UCLA and was a rape victim. That's why they check IDs at night (granted it happened in a dorm earlier in the evening). I can't believe how racist this country has become (not just to the brown folk from the near, middle, far east). An aquaintance of mine was in jubilation that all three "anti-mexican propositions passed!! [his words]". No one except me even seemed phased by his (very loud) comment in the middle of a thick crowd.


sad times indeed
Wolf | 11.16.06 - 9:48 pm | #

The rape argument is ridiculous. What, just because you see someone's id they can't be a rapist? Students can't be rapists? Puhleeze. Most rapes are committed by people the victim knows--i.e., for college students, most rapes are committed by fellow college students.

The only thing I see that was unwise about what the student did is trying to assert his rights.
bitchphd | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 10:04 pm | #

Yeah, Anonymous, that whole thing about freedom of the press and freedom of speech is so un-American. Why didn't the founding fathers outlaw those sorts of shenanigans back in the day? I bet the commies infiltrated the Constitutional Convention and subverted their original intentions. Then the cops could be free to protect upstanding citizens by stomping their jackboots on the faces of minorities. Glad to see wholesome and utterly blind patriotism is alive and well and willing to justify abuse and torture.
Mechanismatic | 11.16.06 - 10:08 pm | #

Okay, never mind my comment. Anonymous got bitched out apparently...
Mechanismatic | 11.16.06 - 10:12 pm | #

Now we see the violence inherent in the system.

When Monty Python did it is funny, when cops do, not so much.
LiberalDirk | 11.16.06 - 10:25 pm | #

The only thing I see that was unwise about what the student did is trying to assert his rights.

I'll preface this by saying that I think the cops were wrong. But, if he couldn't get up because he was tasered, why wasn't that what he yelled? Why did he keep saying other things, when he should've said, at least once, "I can't get up"?

Also, until more information comes out (unless it has), we can't know that this was racist. If they were checking all IDs at the time, and he was the only one without an ID, then asking him, specifically, to leave makes sense.
Flippy | Homepage | 11.16.06 - 10:29 pm | #

"The only thing I see that was unwise about what the student did is trying to assert his rights."

Exactly. It's wiser to treat cops as armed and dangerous, because they are.
Doctor G | 11.16.06 - 11:02 pm | #

I'm a grad student at UCLA as well, and suffice to say, everyone is completely horrified by this. Even the more conservative types in our department are shocked. No matter the actual content of what went down in the beginning--the kid was no doubt an asshole--having something like this happen in our library is, as Chaser says, heartbreaking. A university is not an airport, and you can't have the same security standards. Requiring an ID to use the library late at night seems reasonable; using a taser to deal with an obnoxious student has nothing to do with campus safety.

Also, did you all catch the other little confrontation on the video? A bystander asks an officer for his badge number, and he tells her to shut up or she'll "get tased too." These officers deal with thousands of drunken college students every weekend, and they know better.
bbound | Homepage | 11.17.06 - 12:15 am | #

Maybe the reason this is so upseting is that it really isn't a black and white issue, so we want someone to blame, but it's really not that simple. The student was pretty wrong and the police were pretty wrong, and when you add those together, you get a violent confrontation. We are talking past each other to go back and forth trying to exonerate one or the other, or to put guilt on one or the other, since we're ignoring the ways that both of their behaviors interacted and built off one another. Also, I don't know how it is at UCLA, but I am at an urban campus where there have been rapes and muggings perpetrated by nonstudents who have just come in off the street, so I don't think it's unreasonable to require an ID. I just don't think the argument that most rapes are by students is a valid reason for not requiring IDs. At the very least, when you are a student somewhere, you have a much better chance of being identified, so there is much greater incentive to not do anything violent within your own community, much moreso than if you are a stranger who can run off and never be found (which did happen with a rape at my school). But who knows, maybe asking for IDs just gives us a false sense of protection, like the NYC subway searches which are easily averted by just leaving the station and taking a different train. I'm not sure if checking for IDs really does anything, but it does give me a (false?) sense of security where I go to school, since we never have had a student actually come into a library bathroom and rape another student, whereas we have had strangers do that. So who knows.
anon | 11.17.06 - 12:34 am | #

Mostafa Tabatabainejad, the student tasered by UCLA security, deserved it. I am embarrassed to say that I am a UCLA grad considering the immature behavior that Tabatabainejad has showed on the video. Mr. Tabatabainejad was asked for his ID in the UCLA computer lab in Powell library. He refused. UCLA security felt that it would be best for him to leave. He refused to do so. He was screaming and acting like a complete retard (heaven wonders how he got into such a great institution) and encouraged other students to join his cause. The UCLA security force acted quite reasonable in using the taser against this idiot. My view is that UCLA should expel Mr. Tabatabainejad immediately. He is not worthy of the great education that one can receive at UCLA. He will not be missed.
Michael | 11.17.06 - 1:18 am | #

I just blogged about it myself and have contacted the media outlets I know to see if the story can get more coverage. I'm a recent graduate living overseas right now, but I am beyond disturbed.

You people saying he deserved it? Have you ever been tased? You *can't* freaking stand up afterwards. And no one deserves being tased for six minutes because they can't produce an ID card on time. Wake the fuck up -- you're walking with open eyes into an Orwellian nightmare. We're supposedly fighting this farce of a war to protect our way of life. Well, looks to me like that life died on the library floor, if it wasn't dead already.
Meg | Homepage | 11.17.06 - 1:48 am | #

Michael: did he deserve the second, third, and fourth taserings, too? The ones he received after he was handcuffed? Did the woman that demanded the cop's badge number (which he is required by law to provide) deserve to be threatened with a tasering?

Just checking.
NBarnes | 11.17.06 - 2:41 am | #

Anon, it's not a matter of assigning blame. It's a matter of one party being verbally obnoxious and the other party using an out-of-proportion amount of force on them. If you hear, for example, of a woman being knocked down by a man, does it matter what she said or was doing beforehand if she wasn't threatening physical force towards him? Does it matter who was, to start with, right? We know who ended up being wrong.
Ledasmom | 11.17.06 - 4:52 am | #

College students do stupid things. It is in their nature as young people.

In the 80s, a friend and I, after a little drinking and pot and philosophical discussion, painted a no-nukes symbol on the campus ROTC building. Yes, I was an utter fucking moron, but I was also 19 years old.

Anyway, friend and I are walking along and we notice a limousine is following us. This we thought was funny. Then limo driver turned out to be campus cop using school president's limo.

He pulled out a gun and told us to freeze. Scariest moment of my life, and incompetent campus cop violated all the procedures, as he had pulled it not because anyone was in danger but to stop us from running. If he'd had a taser I'm sure he'd have used it.

Thankfully, this incident did not have horrific consequences, in part because we threatened to file a civil complaint over the gun in our faces. I paid $100 to repair the very minor damage, we had to promise never to do it again.

I am now a parent, taxpayer, and all-around useful member of society. I'm sorry about doing something so asinine. My point is simply that being an idiot college student should not be punishable by death.
Ishmael | 11.17.06 - 6:08 am | #

I agree with Ledasmom.

Beyond that - why do the campus security guards have tasers to begin with? How often are they used? How is that use documentated? Who has access to that documentation? I mean can that be checked out? Is this an isolated incident or regular occurance? How much training did they receive? It doesn't seem like much since they told the guy to stand up after being tased and research show that to be impossible. Seems like the security guys (and their higher ups) are on a power trip that started way before this incident!
skyscraper | 11.17.06 - 6:11 am | #

Oh, and all the black men at my school, back in the 80s, wore those athlete type jackets with the school logo and colors. It wasn't school spirit, it was fear of the cops.
Ishmael | 11.17.06 - 6:12 am | #

The Regents are going to pay out a lot of money for this. It reminds me of the 2004 post-alcs shooting in Boston of a college student in Boston. Untrained cops handling "non-lethal" coercive technology will misuse it.

And threatening to taser the person who asked for a badge number? You can't ask for better proof of bad faith.
xenos | 11.17.06 - 6:25 am | #

Contra Bitch, the interesting story here is not the fascistic misuse of police power, but the fact that citizens are carrying little video recorders in their phones, and are instantly able to propagate the video over the internet and onto national media.

So long as we have an even slightly functioning political system, this will allow for accountability where it has not been effective before.
xenos | 11.17.06 - 6:28 am | #

I couldn't watch it all. It makes me sick.
Michelle | 11.17.06 - 6:51 am | #

I can only imagine what would have happened if a student had been beaten up in India (we don't have tasers there yet). The cops would have had hell to pay for - now Im not saying I condone that - just that sometimes there needs to be a balance of power - cops are after all supposed to serve the public - not try to rule us. Im surprised that none of the other students came to this poor guys assistance... nice democracy sham going on here eh!
whyfi | 11.17.06 - 6:54 am | #

To the few on this website who think this sort of behavior from the police is okay or justified in some way:

No matter what the student was doing, unless he'd been physically threatening, which, it appears, from all accounts so far, he was NOT, he does not deserve to have been tasered at all. It also sounds quite possible that he was asked for this id most specifically as well (racial profiling).

Then, to handcuff someone and taser him on the ground repeatedly, and then ask him to stand up, repeatedly, reveals a very serious bullying, torture situation at work. These security police, I'm certain, have been trained to know that being tasered repeatedly makes you fall down and stay down. The fact that these 'police' then threatened other students is also quite disgusting.

The reaction that the person in authority must always be doing the 'right' thing or 'have a good reason,' where does that, I'm sorry, incredibly naive and wrongheaded assumption come from? Childhood?

But people in authority abuse their power often. Overlooking that possibility of abuse and doing what you can to stop it isn't just naive, it's criminally short-sighted. We're not children anymore, people. We can't just say "Yes, sir/ma'am" and move on. It's our job to question and try to stop this kind of abuse. But first, we have to recognize that--just because these people are some sort of police--that doesn't automatically make them right. In fact, it just gives them a larger arena of power to abuse.
jupiter | 11.17.06 - 7:26 am | #

@ jupiter:

It's common practice nowadays for cops to mace or taser anyone who is "noncompliant." Physical threats are not strictly necessary. One wonders if this is kinder and gentler than the old nightstick methods.

@ sarahliz: "He is quoted as saying "get off me" when the cops attempted to lead him out which isn't a smart way to address a cop."

This is sad but true. It makes me wonder; are the rent-a-cops hired by campuses in some way more likely to be sadistic assholes than ordinary city cops?
No Nym | 11.17.06 - 7:59 am | #

xenos said: "the interesting story here is ... the fact that citizens are carrying little video recorders in their phones, and are instantly able to propagate the video over the internet and onto national media."

My reaction to the story was in two parts 1) What a bunch of goons, and 2) Well, I guess the omnipresent surveillance works both ways, doesn't it?

Now if only we could find prosecutors willing to charge cops with crimes, and juries willing to convict....
No Nym | 11.17.06 - 8:00 am | #

how come the onlooking students didnt jump the cops? That was the most depressing part to me...
curiousgyrl | 11.17.06 - 8:59 am | #

No Nym:

Yikes, common practice? How terrible. That's completely ridiculous. No one should be tasered unless he/she is threatening someone. As tasering someone is quite painful, I mean, you're sending an electrical charge through their body, why would this not be considered a use of force on its own?

What I'd like to know is if those officers are being trained to taser someone repeatedly while they are handcuffed, on the ground and incapacitated. Or if they are trained to threaten someone who is asking for their badges and badge numbers, which they are always supposed to give, when asked.

It's sad. Over at the Chronicle, a bunch of posters are claiming that the 'guy had it coming' etc. I keep thinking that a better education makes people think more critically but then, I get proved wrong.
jupiter | 11.17.06 - 9:00 am | #

Hello this doesn't only happen on campuses.

http://nyc.metblogs.com/ archives..._thr.phtml#more

Scary thugs throwing a man to the sidewalk
posted by Liz Henry at 6:11 PM on November 15, 2006

About one hour ago I was walking down Washington Place and at the corner of Avenue of the Americas, an SUV pulled up onto the sidewalk right in front of me. Two guys jumped out, maybe three, I was kind of in shock. The doors were open and the engine running. They threw a man onto the sidewalk and jumped on top of him. People all stopped and gathered a bit closer, unsettled and staring at the guys and at the SUV. More cop-like guys gathered in, none of them in uniform but most of them with walkie-talkies. Some of them got back into the SUV; I followed and asked through the window if they were police. They yelled at me and pulled away from the curb. As I was trying to take a cameraphone photo of the license plate, the SUV backed almost into me very fast and I had to run backwards. I did not succeed in getting the license plate number but it was a grey unmarked car. ...

Much more at the link above.
blaize | 11.17.06 - 9:33 am | #

@ jupiter:

I think halo ate my earlier comment so here goes again:

There were multiple cases of "drunk student refuses to prostrate self before cops and gets maced" cases at my undergrad, over a decade ago. Both the city cops and the uni police used them, though the city cops tended towards a zealous macing policy. You know, dirty hippy students and all.

This was before tasers were common issue. Tasers are now preferred because they are standoff weapons.

The logic of the cops is, if this person is being belligerent and not coming with us, we are empowered to use such force as is necessary to ensure their compliance. Since mace and tasers are perceived as safe, they get used more often than de-escalating tactics. The latter takes practice and patience, and it creates a scene where cops are not immediately dominant.

As to repeated tasering, I'm not sufficiently familiar with those weapons or the TPP for their employment to comment.

If I had to guess, the student in the video was on his way out; the cops decided to take control of the situation, and instead it quickly got out of hand. I doubt there will be formal charges or even significant disciplinary action against the cops. The uni cops will make a lot of noise about reviewing policy and training sensitivity, but the guys will be patted on the back and it will be same old same old.
No Nym | 11.17.06 - 10:09 am | #

UCLA chancellor statement on the incident here:

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/page.as...asp? RelNum=7513
No Nym | 11.17.06 - 10:47 am | #

I just can't bring myself to watch the video at this time. Too painful.

You know, as a minority and a liberal (and just as a *thinking* person), I feel disgusted and angry, almost personally violated at this abuse of police/security power.

Yet, as a professor, I recognize the (likely) snotty, entitled, assholish student behavior which helped trigger this horrible display of violence.

I just wanted to say "thank you" to all of you insightful, articulate folks who really helped parse my difficult feelings on this. You are absolutely right: the student's ill-advised behavior *cannot* justify this thuggish violence from police.
beebo | 11.17.06 - 10:51 am | #

No Nym:

You're probably right. And as such, that's got to be the most depressing thing I've heard today so far.

Of course, it's early yet on the west coast.
Imagine if these bozos had been allowed to carry guns. That student, and probably several others, might be dead now. Would everyone who has done so still be claiming it was 'justified'? What is wrong with people when they overlook wrongdoing of those in charge? I've been bullied before by security cops, mainly, it was evident, because I was a woman. It was disgusting then. It's disgusting now. If someone is doing something wrong, no matter who it is, it is your responsibility as a citizen to say so. Yes, it puts you at risk, because bullies like to be bullies. But it's a heck of a lot better than being cowardly and turning the other way or saying someone 'deserved to be tortured.' Yuck to those who think it was deserved. What if it had been your child on the ground being tasered repeatedly for not having his/her ID card?
jupiter | 11.17.06 - 10:54 am | #

hello-
for anyone in the LA area who might be interested, there's going to be a protest on the UCLA campus today (Friday) at noon in front of Kerckhoff Hall.
anon ucla grad student | 11.17.06 - 11:02 am | #

how come the onlooking students didnt jump the cops? That was the most depressing part to me...

How would it have improved the situation to have given the cops the impression that they were trapped in an escalating riot situation?

Right or wrong, like it or not, if someone physically attacks a police officer ("jump the cops"), they will get taken down physically, they will get taken down HARD, and they should expect to have the book thrown at them as well.

Please note, I'm not saying this is how it should or shouldn't be, I'm saying this is how it is. If you attack a cop, other cops will take you down.
Lexica | Homepage | 11.17.06 - 11:04 am | #

Hey folks, go on the UCLA website and send letters of outrage to the administration. With sufficient outside pressure they will be forced to act. Someone here (above) linked to the chancellor's reply and that is where I found the email addresses.
Sister of Dr. B | Homepage | 11.17.06 - 12:09 pm | #

Commenting to agree with norbizness all the way at the top: "I'm pretty sure LA-area law enforcement and quasi-law enforcement officers didn't need the Patriot Act to go apeshit on minorities."

As a homegrown inner city Angelina and still living here woman of color--people that I know, those that are less formally educated, the very young, and educated men of color plus a number of women are afraid of the cops more than gangs, yes. I included. Thought I'd share.

It is about power tripping and overt use of force, you cannot be a non passive person around the cops and also be brown, poor, male, loud cause you're a threat or you've assaulted a cop therefore being tazered, punched, handcuffed, etc to really control you not only physically but fuck with you psychologically as well.
fiercelyfab | Homepage | 11.17.06 - 12:14 pm | #

Yeah, the students standing around did exactly the right thing imho. They acted as witnesses, they reinforced what the victim was saying, they asked the cops for identification, they told the cops to stop. And whoever it was with the video camera stood quietly in back without drawing attention to the fact that they were videotaping, which would surely have gotten their camera taken by the cops.

You don't want to escalate a situation like that; that's how people get killed and a story about "cops torture student" turns into "students riot at UCLA." What you want to do is be calm and respectful while articulating (for the record) what you see going on, and asking the cops (again, for the record) to identify themselves.
bitchphd | Homepage | 11.17.06 - 12:25 pm | #

B -

The argument that requiring ID late at night on campus as a means to enhance security is not ridiculous. No one is denying that rape victims often know their attackers, but that is not the point. Campuses that have easy freeway access, such as UCLA and UCI, have a history of escalating criminal activity, both personal and property-related, by outsiders.

I think we can all agree that being mugged is bad, but being raped is worse. Unfortunately, a location where there is a concentration of women - especially young ones with a false sense of security - is the equivalent of a buffet to a rapist. [A suspect in a UCI rape stated as much: "All those girls up there..."]

Will checking IDs prevent all crime? Of course not - but universities have the right to set rules; being a student doesn't give one carte blanche to ignore them. And, given, as you noted, that most rapes are committed by someone who knew the victim, random checking of IDs might also serve to dissuade a student stalker-rapist: If he has had to give his name to campus security, there is evidence he was in a certain place at a certain time.

Whilst I certainly don't condone the actions of the campus cops - I think they should be both fired and prosecuted - the theory behind checking IDs is a valid one. If a minor inconvenience to students - being asked to present ID - prevents a single rape, it is worth it.

And, having lived through the Kent State era, having been tear-gassed and pummelled during demonstrations and once dragged out of a T-station in Harvard Square by the cops when all I was doing was coming home from work wearing a tie-dyedshirt with a peace symbol, having no idea that a small riot was going on above - I can say with great conviction that advocating Ohio as a theme song to this incident is over-dramatising. They used to shoot at us with guns, B. Dead.
DominEditrix | 11.17.06 - 12:49 pm | #

IF I were the judge on this one- I would alow the prosecution of the cops to occur. The taser knocks one down - the cops are most likely barely high school graduates and are trained to learn this. This was a sadistic abuse-yelling at the kid asking him to stand up while they were knocking his nuerological system out. The kid deserves a few million from the UC system. At minimum. The family and the public demand live televised apologies from the cops. Pronto.
Nicky | 11.17.06 - 1:12 pm | #

I agree with Dr B about how to comport oneself in the presence of an armed, uniformed authority.

I've never been tazed but I've had police and Shore Patrol go upside my head. In my experience, don't even twitch unless you're really ready to throw down. Even then its a bad idea. The Man can't be beat.

You have to wonder what spooked those cops. I mean, why taze a fellow if you want him to stand up? It seems like they lost they minds.
taddyporter | 11.17.06 - 1:25 pm | #

some of the comments lead me to believe that there's confusion about the nature of the cops here - I'm given to understand that they were *cops*, not campus security. that explains the tasers, though not the lack of proportion in dealing with everyday pesky students.
acm | Homepage | 11.17.06 - 1:30 pm | #

Holy Hell. I just watched today for the first time. I cried - He was tasered at least 4 times within the 6 minute video.
dd | 11.17.06 - 2:08 pm | #

A witness account that's being spread about:

http://www.blakeross.com/2006/11...ering/#more- 246

Also to add a little comment. Is anyone else reminded of the "stop hitting yourself" bullying?
D | 11.17.06 - 3:30 pm | #

my best friends brother was tasered, beaten and repeatedly kicked by police here in canada. his offence- he told an officer beating on another young person that he should not be doing that. within a minute he and his girl companion and male friend were swarmed. his eyesocket was broken. etc...

this video makes me wonder how much pain my friends bro was in and makes me sick to my stomach. the only contact i have had with police recently is when i was recruited... not my idea of fun in an environment like the one we live in.

nobody deserves this. it has been fifteen minutes since i watched half the video and i want to throw up still. tasers are not toys. cops are not supposed to be arrogant fuckers without morals. we are taught to show respect to those in uniform- but this just makes me scared.

and honestly, an id card at a university- how orwellian and frightening is that. unbelievable that one has to justify themselves at a LIBRARY----

protest and protest some more please.
anonymous on friday | 11.17.06 - 4:14 pm | #

They were trained in the use of Tasers. At least four members of the squad had special awards from the Taser company for doing so well in training. It hasn't been released whether any of the awardees were the ones doing that Tasing. They are real cops, but work full-time for the university - I didn't quite understand it, but it looks like some in-between system. City level of authority, but on campus only.

I don't care how much of an asshole he was, when someone is handcuffed and on the ground there is no possible reason to shock him or her. Were the cops really incapable of picking him up and hauling his ass out of there like cops always do to nonviolent protesters? Specifically, like they did to the nine UCLA students who protested at a Board of Regents meeting just a couple of days later? Nine students, organized protest, refused to leave, went limp, and NO TASERS. Hm. Can be done, I guess. Too bad the other officers didn't realize that.
anonymous, please | 11.17.06 - 4:26 pm | #

He was asked to show ID. He refused. He was asked to leave REPEATEDLY, he refused. He ONLY began to leave when the second tier security arrived. One of the officers attempted to stop him by securing his arm probably to ask him questions like; Who are you? Why did you refuse to leave? What's in your backpack? Questions you'd definitely want to know from a guy who ONLY decided to leave once the police arrived. The same individuals here who are in an upraor about this situation being unnecessary are the very same individuals who would be railing against the officers if this individual had a gun or a bomb. All of this would be a non-issue had he simply either showed his ID or left.

He was mentally aware enough to claim "abuse of power" to the cops, and when they told him to stand up, he said "F** you." Screw the little punk. All he needed to do was what was asked off him. But no... idealistic little college pri.ck has to do what comes so instinctively to a college kid (not all of them of course): Rebel. Protest. March. Demonstrate. While those traits were noble in that they were used effectively to combat and cure such social injustice as civil rights, and war, this was nothing but a big mouth smartass who refused to follow the rules.

This is a classic case of taking on the bull and getting the horns. He had to know, even if it's in retrospect, that he was dealt a losing hand, here. And he dug his own grave. I don't like pain, and feel for anyone who suffers pain; but I can't go with a defiant student. I look at it like this: he just earned a few stripes towards rank in the real world.
Uncontainable Spirit | 11.17.06 - 7:55 pm | #

its not my experience that the cops cant be stopped from doing abusive things tactically and physically, and thats a bad historical analysis as well. if the group of students had intervened in an organized fashoin, they could have stopped the cops from tasering the guy a second or fourth time.

But 'they should have intervened' wasnt my real point. i guess i was really thinking that the passivity of the crowd says something about the times we're living in. its hard to imagine not wanting to intervene in that situation, and in lots of other times and places a crowd wouldnt let police get away with that kind of crap. that we do is a big part of the reason its no common imho. But the real question is why? I would argue that the the passive crowd is actually a historically UNusual scenario for this kind of thing.
curiousgyrl | 11.17.06 - 8:27 pm | #

this was nothing but a big mouth smartass who refused to follow the rules.

And for that he should be repeatedly tasered? Is that what you're saying?

I swear to God, there are some people in this country who get a hard-on every time someone in uniform exerts unnecessary power over people who cannot fight back.

Do you think the student who was threatened with tasering when he asked for the cop's badge number was deserving of a good zapping too?

Christ.

Pictures from the demo can be found at:

http://www.laist.com/archives/ 20...d_taser_use.php
Andy | 11.17.06 - 9:52 pm | #

As a recent UCLA graduate a current faculty who has been on campus late at night--and whose friend was raped on campus--I am very glad they check IDs in the library after hours. Students rape students, yes. But most of the RANDOM violence on campus happens when non-students prey on female student. The student was in the library after 11pm, taking advantage of a late-night library program not open to the public. Period.

(If, however, they only asked this one student for his ID and not the rest of the students at CLICC (does anyone know what happened?) then that's a different story.)

People need to separate the legitimate school policy (checking of IDs after 11PM) with the totally illegitimate tasering. All of my undergraduate students have been upset by the violence, not the ID checking. They also agree that their fellow students can be brats, and UCPD should be trained to handle brats. But I think this "ID-checking is wrong" is just a side-show and shouldn't be the focus of the discussion.
Winter | 11.17.06 - 10:23 pm | #

I don't really care about the library card part. I don't think any of that is relevant. The kid was probably out of line. He should have just left quietly. Well he didn't. But is that any reason to taser someone? The video says it all. I find it disgusting. I find it an abuse of power, hands down. I thought it was especially telling with other students were warned that they'd be tazed when they asked for badge numbers of the offending officers.

My gut reaction to seeing this video is outrage!
Hype - Jersey | Homepage | 11.17.06 - 10:51 pm | #

Extremely shocking and very disturbing. Those officers will have to pay for every second this person was in pain.
Shame on all those who said the cops did the right thing or the poor guy deserved being stunned. You all have no morals or dignity. You should be stunned with tasers too, then you'll realize how it feels.
Mariam | 11.17.06 - 10:52 pm | #

It was a "random" Id check (of the middle eastern guy).
mirror | 11.18.06 - 1:02 am | #

Hi, If it is possible for you,
Please send me it's video.

It is a formal of US Police,
Please see 'Crash" film.

Thanks

Best Regards to you
optimal | 11.18.06 - 5:34 am | #

Does it bother anyone else that this thread is over 100 comments and, as of right now, the one re: Eric Keroack, who is likely to have a seriously negative effect on women's reproductive health and choice has only 12?
DominEditrix | 11.18.06 - 2:37 pm | #

Are a lot of the commenters on here serious?

"He should've shown his ID."
"Why didn't he just get up?"

If you'd read the article that Dr Bitch linked to you would've seen that it wasn't POSSIBLE to stand up after being tased.

This shit freaks me out. My state in Australia is currently testing tasers out as an option for our police force. I intend to write in protest immediately.
Charlotte | 11.18.06 - 11:30 pm | #

I'm not convinced tasers should be banned. Personally I'd rather be tasered than get a head injury from a baton. But meanwhile, reading outside articles indicates there was some kind of pain-control policy for the UCLA police (presumably some others) which brings up the question how much pain/injury/torture can you impose to keep control of a situation. I think multiple tasering on a captured student is too much, no matter how the thing started, or whether or not he was being a jerk because it was the 150th time since 9-11 that someone singled him out, or spit on him, or whatever. Also, my understanding is that the librarian, not the officer, did the profiling-- if that's the case, criticism of the officer shouldn't include that unless there was clear evidence of racicm (slurs, etc).
serns | 11.19.06 - 9:56 am | #

curiousgyrl: You're asking why a crowd of college students didn't risk felony conviction by intervening. Most of the jobs they hope to ever get would not be open to them in the event they were convicted of some kind of felony attack on an officer. Even the somewhat unselfish ones might reasonably conclude that that they might do more good in their future do-gooder job than by stopping some non-permanent pain right then. Plus if the cop was really out of control, someone could get shot, again worse. A crowd of people with less of a perceived future, or already-felons, or on the street where escape is easier, might have behaved differently. Especially if they were related to the taseree.
serns | 11.19.06 - 10:09 am | #

Regarding organizing student protests - I mentioned this on the last day of class before our (week long) thanksgiving break. It was in that couple of minutes before class officially starts, where you might be chatting with students about things like what they are doing for break, why only 9 of them showed up for class that day, stuff like that. It turns out our university closes the dorms at 6:00 the last day before a break. Our class ends at 4:00. "no wonder no one's here" I mused outloud. This conversation quickly turned to "stupid" university policies. I mentioned the UCLA tasering as a point of comparison. To my shock, not one of them had heard about it. They had heard about violence around the play station console release, so they are getting news from somewhere. But UCLA student getting tasered what looked like 6 times for what was at worst trespassing? Nope, nothing. Horrors!

And yes, I did think of Kent State after I read about this and saw the video.
PFG | Homepage | 11.19.06 - 11:07 am | #

The lyrics to 'Ohio'? I don't think so. Not when ten, twenty, thirty kids are just standing there staring at a guy get Tasered repeatedly, and take three, four, five minutes to start yelling -- sorry, raising their voices carefully, to protect their careers -- at the cops.

Don't get me wrong, campus protest is mainly affordable to the enrolled white middle class and as such we tend to retreat quickly; it is, after all, a 14-year-old non-student screaming for help over a dead body in that famous Kent State photo, while everyone else seems to be wandering off. But an age of such massive injustice and limitless global communication tech really should have spawned an exceptional class of activist youth fighting the former with the latter, and instead we've got a herd of Xbox players unable to even raise their cellphones above a carrel shelf to take clear pictures of an assault.
KingHorse | 11.20.06 - 10:58 pm | #

Over one hundred comments, and so few of the commenters have bothered to check on any of the facts of the case (to the extent that's even possible at this stage of the proceedings). The video actually reveals very little. The repeated tasering was an overreaction, but I'm not prepared to call it an abuse of power, much less torture.

Comparing this to Kent State trivializes Kent State.

And what in the world does this incident have to do with the Patriot Act?
Anonymous | 11.21.06 - 1:14 pm | #

I loved to hear him scream like a little bitch
Anonymous | 11.22.06 - 11:42 pm | #

a little follow up (particularly seeing as an above commenter was wishing for fact-checking)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/20...11/19/10734/ 370
rowmyboat | 11.26.06 - 5:06 pm | #