Tell me why Berube said you were way teh lame. I like you both. What is the problem?
Being internetless is teh suk.
Well, Hattie, it's Dr. B's story to tell, but on my side I can let you know that it was Gratuitous and Wholly Uncalled-For Insult Day that day, and since the good doctor was the audience for my book and all . . . well, it just seemed kinda obvious at the time.
You forgot that great classic,
e) all of the above.
I don't understand what your beef with his guy's book. I read the Amazon description and it looked like a fair interpretation of how our colleges are taught.
I know it sounds a little naive to just take the Amazon review at face value without firse reading the book. But, in all honesty, his book sounds fair and "kind of interesting" (bordering on boring).
You shouldn't have your opinion swayed by just an insult. Don't let it affect how you view the book, just get even with him. The best way to deal with someone calling you "way teh lame" is to tell him to "shut ur BSEG!" I guarantee you will be ROTFLMFAO in no time.
I found his blog to be, well, a bit too bloated. He's full of his own crapulence, and someone should just strike a match already.
Why so much cursing ?
mellstrom,
are you new around here?
Hmm.
mellstom:
In the right hands, cursing is ironic and funny, even satirical--not in the way my kids like to talk about bodily functions but with all the sophistication that we intellectuals bring to the universe; clever without being crass, misunderstood by the "right" people but viewed with wonderment by our students.
Yeah. I just want to know why every third link I click seems to lead to Berube. The great thing is that when you go to the guy's site he seems pretty unassuming -- nice smile, charming middle-class family, dorky academic interests. And yet, and yet, there he is, all over the goddamned internet. I'm reminded of tumor growth. Infiltrates snaking through the biosystem, feeding.
Which is, you know, not to cast aspersions or anything. Oh, and fuck.
Yeti,
I think it would be incongrous to both a) be worried sick and (d) assume that [she's] holed up with some hottie in a motel somewhere. But the option of b) through d) would work and was actually pretty close to my assumptions.
f) Fuck You, Clown!
You can pass the time (well, once a day) by voting for Bitch Ph.D. a best liberal blog in the 2006 Weblog Awards.
(as best liberal blog...)
Was there a pool? Is there a pool? Is it too late to get in? I put $20 on (d) both ways.
Definitely (b) and a little of (a). Didn't think of (d), but for your sake, that would be the nicest, of course 
wait, this is a liberal blog?
Please, more votes for Bitch Phd as best liberal blog at http://2006.weblogawards.org/
200...iberal_blog.php. Right now it's only 7th place out of 10 blogs.
I enjoyed Bérubé's book. It seemed to me that the driving theme behind it was to engage the idea that conservatives are discouraged from entering academia.
Not having read the book, I'm kinda talking out of my ass here.
I haven't been overly convinced that academia is crawling with liberals, at least based on my experience. Sure, many voted Democrat and voiced support for liberal causes. Their scholarship, too, may have verged on the radical; but I didn't exactly see them living liberal lives at work. Confronted with real instances of sexual and racial and even economic discrimination, most of my professors and (later) colleagues tended to blame the victim and support the system.
Liberalism seemed like a good idea, but it was an abstraction. I think a lot of this had to do with the institution nature of academia, which may grant intellectual freedom with tenure, but beats the fight out of a lot of people in the long climb to get there. Self-preservation kept the liberalism at home and in the research, but blunted it at work.
Of course, to reiterate, this is based on my impressions, most of which come from southern instituions, and the fact that I could be talking out of my ass.
The big question: How could anyone think Dr. B is "teh lame"?
Sheesh, I haven't had more than a minute to visit in over a month and look what I've missed. A part of me feels compelled to go to Berube and investigate.
Great, more work.
Fuck it.
--
Voted.
Oh my, how did my poor little post end up blank and stuck in the middle of all your erudite and sophisticated responses? I'm sorry for the blank, stuck, post. My cpu is only connected through a phone dial up and I was not sure how to correct it. I'm referring to the post not the phone dial up. A job and money would fix the dial up part and yes I have an excuse for being out of work and poor. And the post was sitting here blank because my system crapped out on me while I was posting. Sooner or later this explanation might make sense but I am ill tonight and normally wouldn't try to write. I just hated reading all the other posts and finding mine still sitting here empty.
I accidently found this evening that I could comment in the offensve blank space so of course, I will.
In my original post I was responding by telling you MS. B, that I think you are brilliant and I admire your blog and I agreed with everything you said about this fucked up administration and it's behavior (thats scary).
I'm new to your writings and your blog and boy didn't I start off on the wrong foot?
I may never post again.
the sky is falling. the Internets is broken. what's the world coming to?
Voted (for Dr. B, of course).
PS You could be like some of those OTHER bloggers & get your wireless access at Starbucks.
my comments are based on the book (because I haven't read even a review of it) and I'm in Australia, so things may be a bit different where you are:
Academics are drawn from a pool of people who've had an undergrad and then postgrad education, in most (if not all) places in the world this is disproportionately the middle and upper classes. Paying fees, missing 3,4 or even 10 years of time in the paid workforce all keep the working class or lower middle class kids out. The most prestigious universities tend to have students from the most expensive high schools. How we end up with academics as liberal as they are is what surprises me, because the whole system is designed to keep conservative rich folk running the joint. I'd also suggest that there's a pretty big difference between socially progressive (not being particularly homophobic for example) and being radical (actively campaigning for gay marriage rights). I suspect a lot of academics fall into the former category and are mistaken for the latter.
hehehe. I spent 40 bucks in one setting at the local Kinkos once...the Pooter at home died, and I got body cramps.
Just voted for the B *and* Michael. He's really very nice, and if you don't vote for him those shallow Ivybloggers will win.
Starbucks! When there is a Coffee Bean on every corner?
Voted.
Starbucks, shmarbucks. I go to the local independent most of the time. Unfortunately, we only have one car, and that means I can't go during the work week, when Mr. B. has it.
kate at 8:45pm
On your point about liberal academics coming from priveleged backgrounds. I think you have to take self-selection into account. In the realm of possibilities, an academic job is neither particularly well paid or particularly respected.
If you have the access and capability to make an academic career, you probably have other options. You can make a similar salary for less work. Or you can make a much larger salary. So something in the nature of the work has to draw you and keep you. I suspect this correllates with a somewhat liberal outlook.
anon at 3:43 was me, whups
Crusty the clown!! feels good, huh?
I know many academics, including my adviser who is a star, from working class backgrounds. At one time financial aid for undergrads was very generous, and then grad school can be fully funded. And for me, the academic salary sounded attractive, since it was more than my parents made.
Love Berube's attacks on Horowitz and company. That said too much of Berube's book dealt with his classroom experiences teach postmodernism to honors students at a flagship university which draws students from suburban Philly. At my school we have students who get angry when biology profs won't listen to their "opinions" on evolution. Scientists can be SO dogmatic about their methods, and if a "Creation Scientist" says Dinosaurs roamed the Gardenn of Eden, it must be true.
Funny thing, tho, Ishmael -- four of the best students in that postmodernism seminar were from impoverished rural Pennsylvania, and the first in their families to attend college.
soubzriquet: Academics are not well-respected? Really? Try this test. Go to half of your holiday parties, and tell strangers that you teach middle school. Go to the other half, and tell strangers that you are a university professor. Record responses.
I think there's a lot of respect. Having been a middle school teacher, and being a prof now (almost), I can tell you the respect factor is pretty huge. Getting a PhD and teaching at a university is something most people can't see themselves or anyone else they know doing. Teaching middle school is something they can see a trained monkey doing, probably better than the stupid, lazy, union-happy folk who are there now. (Not my opinion... popular public opinion, just to be clear.) Most other jobs in this country fall somewhere in the middle.
But I think that you're right that the time as a poor student vs. the monetary payoff is small. This is well-documented. And it probably does go a long way towards explaining liberal bias in academia as much as such exists. That and, you know, the liberals being right.
MathABD: note I said `particularly' respected. You are quite right about the comparison with middle school teachers. But that says more about the position of middle school teachers than ph.d's. For what it's worth, I've got a ph.d. and research position at a university --- never been a middle school teacher but know several. Certainly I've seen the comparison you talk about.
That being said though, there is not a huge amount of respect for academia in this culture. For that matter, in some areas, you'll generate distrust by telling people you are a professor. Outside academia, there are plenty of people who don't particularly respect graduate degrees, either. To go to grad school, I left a job with better salary than I can expect in academia. Some of the people I worked with told me I was absolutely crazy. That my ph.d wouldn't be `worth' anything because I wouldn't make better money with it. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of dollars of opportunity cost. From a strictly economic point of view, of course they were right. But beyond that, for the most part they disrespected the process too, viewing it as something people did when they weren't clever enough to see there were better paths. So that sort of attitude is out there, too.
My point was that for similar effort (e.g. physicians) or perhaps less effort (e.g. lawyers, corporate execs, some financials, engineers, etc.) you can end up in positions with as much or more respect.
So overall: if you have lots of other options and what you most want is money there are options that are either easier for similar amount, or paths that will probably generate a lot more income; and similarly if what you most want is respect, there are options that are less work for similar social standing, or options that will generate a lot more respect.
As the spouse of a public school teacher,* I can attest that entry-level forklift operators generally enjoy greater social status than grade school teachers.
* and as a former entry-level forklift operator
Outside academia, there are plenty of people who don't particularly respect graduate degrees, either.
Yep. Depends a little on what your PhD is in. Mine is in Physics, which usually impresses people of a non-technical bent. When I tried to find a non-academic job with it, it wasn't worth a hill of beans *except* to other PhD holders. My experience with from the other side (having a job and watching evaluation of candidates) is identical.
soubzriquet: Lawyers get more respect than profs? Really? My sister's a (top-school educated, high money earning, blah blah blah) lawyer. The usual reaction to her saying what she does for a living is a string of lawyer jokes. I get a lot more respect than that, and I haven't even finished yet.
But maybe Frumious is right... maybe it's the math thing. People are a bit in awe of folks who do math & science, and maybe it comes more from that than from respect for academia as a profession per se.
My favorite argument against the "liberal control of colleges poisoning the minds of our youth" cult, is very simple: if this is the case, where the hell are all the communists and left-wing radicals we're creating? They should be taking over the country by now.
Seriously, where are they?
MathABD: Some lawyers do, mostly because money gets a lot more respect than education does. You have to flash it a little, but on average, and particularly outside of academia, being percieved (rightly or wrongly) as rich will trump having a ph.d in most cases. Lawyers are a bad pick probably, just because of all the other social connotations --- drop it from my list if you want, the point still stands.
No, I don't think it is a math thing. I've got one in math, after all. That gets a lot of knee-jerk `gee you must be smart' comments, but that really only gets you so far. As I said before, I never claimed people don't respect a professor (from what I've heard though, try adjuct and a low tier state U for a while, and see how much respect you feel). My point was that it isn't commeasurate with the time and effort in, compared to some other professions.
People without much education are somewhat awed by phd's, sure (with above caveat). If you think industry or medicine is particularly impressed by yours I'd say you lack experience working with them.
There is kind of an odd reaction when you mix a PhD into a non-PhD crowd. On the one hand, the non-PhDs are all impressed by the PhD degree. On the other, should the PhD person express a contrary opinion to others, then the PhD person can be dismissed as not living in the "real world." (Didn't Dr. B have a post on this some months back?)
Something similar happens when a PhD goes on the job market outside of academia. The PhD is viewed as slumming, or a dilettante, or, again, not in the "real world" so therefore unable to perform a "real" job.
There is another thing that has cropped up here in the comparison to the math/science degrees and the humanities/social science degrees. I have a history degree (and in a period that encompasses the Civil War). People in that "real world" love to "quiz" me on trivia or tell me all about my field or express disdain for "revisionist" historians. I'm wondering if this is just a way of making conversation, finding some common ground, or showing curiosity without having to play the student. Do other PhDs have that experience?
Haven't you all every noticed the inherent distrust of intellectualism historically imbedded in the English language? "Too clever by half" "Too smart for his own good" "smart Alec" "clever Dick" "smarty-pants" "smarty-boots" "clever-clogs" etc. [Not to mention the infamous "Effete intellectual snobs"] All of these have at least mildly pejorative connotations.
Years ago, I attended a university whose benefactors/trustees were, for the most part, self-made men. Faculty were not allowed to attend opening night of any of the theatre productions, as the trustees were offended by their presence, inferring from the very fact that they had advanced degrees that the faculty would somehow look down on those who had none. [They did, however, send their sons and daughters to university; it was their peer group in age whom they resented.]
Everybody hates lawyers. Even other lawyers.
Hmm. I just sit back and seee...
At least while you're not able to write regularly, maybe someone trustworthy could log in and put up a Vote 4 Bitch! for the Blog Awards - http://2006.weblogawards.org/
200...iberal_blog.php
Okay, really...where is that Bitch?
I think she's in California. She may have internet difficulties, but might she also just be enjoying life? Hope so.
@Michael Berube: You know, if I'd been reviewing your book for a journal, I would have noted your sparkling prose, and the funny bits about conservatives who send voluntarily send their kids to bastions of Ivy liberalism. And I want to type the Sidney Hook quote up and put it on my syllabus next semester.
That said, I think when we teach we always stack the deck in ways that make it hard to analyze the relationships with students. For example, your honors pomo seminar had four rural students, but honors students choosing a postmodernism class are different from, say, accounting or elementary ed. students at Directionally Named Univ., where I teach.
And African-American lit: as someone who has taught that field, it does involve political choices. I could name you a half dozen excellent memoirs by Confederate soldiers. I suspect that few English profs. teach those texts for reasons that are partly political.
Plus, as you are an endowed chair and public intellectual, conservatives English majors who take your small course must have a fair idea of what they are getting into.
So I'm glad that your teaching generates light; sometimes I feel mine is generating too much heat.
Dearest Bitch:
I do miss you so!
Oh for fuck sake, Dr B is still AWOL?
What's the pool up to?
"That Dr B's
So hard to find
Cain't get no rest
No peace of mind
I thought she gave
Her heart to we
But she put us down
She set us free
Cause she's
Deadly
Everybody said she was
Deadly
I guess you know she is because she's
Deadly
Comes in every shape and size
Deadly
Always takes us by surprise"
with apologies to Jerry L. Williams and Bonnie Raitt.
Ooh, LA, proved to much for the Bitch,
So she's going back to find
The life she once knew . . .
So she's leaving, leaving on that midnight train to Georgia.
Leaving on that midnight train, Woohoo!
But I won't be with her
On that midnight train to Georgia
I'd rather live in my world
Live in my world
So I'll live without her in my world . . .
that was supposed to be "former member of the Pips" (Gladys Knight's backup singers). Yes, I know that song because I'm getting old.
when are you coming back?
Aww, y'all missed me!
Enjoying life was kinda close. Mostly I've been busy single-mamaing, b/c Mr. B.'s on a business trip that came up kinda sudden-like.
Awww, i was still hoping for (d) until your last comment... hope you're doing all right and enjoying the wonders of california weather : )
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