Dude, your spelling sk1llz like totally suxx0r. Oh, and welcome chez bitch. Just don't blow anything up in the pool. *Totally* pisses her off.
First?
and when are Ms Kate and frumious b going to get a guest hitch, hmmm?
Thanks for the welcome! Outside of that I barely understand a word about pools and guest hitches. Thus the prophecy of idiocy from me is self-fulfilled. :-/
http://bitchphd.blogspot.com/200...og-that-
is.html
I understand your frustration with religion. It makes no sense if you try to combine the books of Paul with the rest of what is called the 'Bible'. I mean, your point that Calvinism means that God created people just to watch them die makes perfect sense in light of the ridiculous, double-minded and contradictory doctrines that exist in the church today. This is one reason I just wrote my book Blueprint For Bondage: The Secret Ancient Agenda For The Endtime Seduction Of The Bride Of Christ. (www.BlueprintForBondage.com) I pull out the stops and call these preachers on the carpet, expecting them to explain themselves and why they continue to preach crap that is completely illogical and gives people false hope, while they, themselves get rich off of their rhetoric. I've been to Seminary. I've got my Master's. I was 'saved' at the age of 4. I guess I just wasn't willing to turn off my brain when the 'spirit' entered in. When we stop asking questions in an attempt to find truth, we stop existing as we were intended to exist, regardless of what many of these right-wing, faith-touting, religious leaders would like the world to believe. I'm betting heaven will not be full of the 'dumbed-down' 'faith-laden' proselytes who have reconciled Calvinism and Wesleyanism in their minds, in order to 'fit in' to the social strata in their local church. Reason and logic must have gotten nuked when I wasn't looking. What's happened to our world? It's like the collective mind has gotten a frontal labotomomy. We've become robotic puppets who simply believe what we're told and act thusly . . . regardless of the consequences to ourselves and others.
As a Bronx native and former resident of NYC; Queens, NY is almost like NC to me since I even moved further away to Westchester County (I kid, I kid, I love Queens!)
During the summer I was actually playing Pat Benatar's greatest hits. My coworker on my campaign could not stand it......
Sorry - e-lingo isn't my forte.
http://www.BlueprintForBondage.com
(Excellent Reviews...)
No_Nym, let's hope, for my sake, *peeing* in the pool is not as big a deal.
Jason, I think we all know that Queens *rules*. The Bronx is pretty cool too though. Isn't Westchester in Canada? 
Messenger, what is interesting to me, since you mention both their names and I'm pretty familiar with them both, is how *devoted* people in their respective denominations are to Calvin or Wesley. They are treated like they had special knowledge. That said, I do admire Wesley's committment to what is known as "social justice". Have you read The Da Vinci Code? I know I'm late to the book, and I'm about halfway through, but it's fucking awesome. It's like a fictionalized version of all that research that gets swept under the rug about where we get our modern Catholic and Protestant views on things.
And also I'm intrigued by Catholicism. I'm not one, but it's just so...mysterious and ritualistic.
"Basically, your name either is or isn’t in the Book of Life, and you can’t do shit about it. Which led me to ask, 'Then what’s the point?'"
That leads me to ask, "Can I have another fucking drink?"
Yeah, one sad thing about Christmas with my family: Not a drop of alcohol. Not a drop. Too many recoverings running around.
Oh, btw. I recommend this link to every Christian apostate and would-be apostate.
http://home.ca.inter.net/~oblio/...oblio/
jhcjp.htm
I mean, if we have to "teach the controversy" about creationism vs evolution, then I think we should teach the controversy about whether there really ever was a man named Jesus, born of a virgin.
Incidentally, I think that most of what passes for atheism misses the point. The actual content of religious doctrines is only secondary or tertiary on the scale of things going on inside a church. So I don't think you can counter what is, politically and socially, a reactionary identity movement with some kind of logical or empirical argument.
I think it would be better to spend time weakening the assumption that being "Christian" entails any kind of partisan commitment. Someday, I imagine a scene like this:
Creepy Neocon: Vote Republican!
Christian: Let the dead bury the dead!
Then I won't care one way or the other what pixies and demons someone is worshiping.
stroll said: "Christmas with my family: Not a drop of alcohol. Not a drop. Too many recoverings running around."
Damn. Our problem is too many children running around. Can't be plastered, though it would help things immensely, and be on baby duty later on.
re: the DaVinci Code.
The genesis of this story is a fraud scheme developed in France in the mid 20th century. The Christology is, to put it mildly, bereft of any merit.
A decent review can be had at:
http://home.ca.inter.net/~oblio/
...rvMagdalene.htm
Heh, thanks for the link No_Nym, I think I've read that before. I know Dan Brown's book isn't exactly "scholarship" but I've totally bought into the story. I remember him on Oprah, saying something along the lines of "everything in the book is true" and kind of rolling my eyes. I think the more important question is in the *first* link you posted up there. I'm just a little obsessed with Leo Da Vinci.
As for partisan committments of Christians, I'm not sure what you're saying, but I think I agree...even within the same denomination you're more likely to know a member of the denomination's political stances based on what city their local church is in. For example, a Baptist church in NY is probably full of democrats. In NC, full of republicans. Have I gone completely off the point now?
I'm sort of on the same page as Messenger up there.... minus the "Secret Ancient Agenda For The Endtime Seduction Of The Bride Of Christ", and the rest of whatever it was he was saying. If I could just comprehend what the hell all that meant, I would be a better ally. I think what I mostly wanted to say was that your spelling was remarkable. Good Post.
Hi, Stroll, welcome. So what's a Moravian Love Feast?
Stroll, you are not allowed to pee in the pool. We put a special chemical in that turns bright green in the presence of pee, and everyone will point and laugh.
Thanks Ryan! I wasn't too clear on all that either, but I guess we're supposed to read the book. I'm mad, though, at the spam comment that says I'm a great blogger but then implies I have bad skin. [I think Dr. B herself deleted it.]
Spiritrover, a love feast is a little musical service the Moravians do. It's nice. The Moravians of Old Salem fame are mostly in NC.
BITCH! I'll try to hold it. How is your trip so far?
I did delete the spam.
Trip so far is so far. I forgot to pack a proper coat or winter boots, so Minneapolis is gonna be cold. I'm staying in a run-down Best Western for the next couple nights until SEK arrives and I move into his room (b/c I'm cheap and lazy that way). I ate convenience mart chicken for dinner and a candybar. Now I'm watching cable tv, which is really kinda sucky.
Dr. B said: "We put a special chemical in that turns bright green in the presence of pee, and everyone will point and laugh."
Oh, sweet! Pee in the pool! Pee in the pool!
You know that's what would happen if this magical chemical actually existed, right?
BTW, after all that hubub about the uber 1337 winter boots, you go and leave them? WTF?
No Nym, tell me about it with the boots. I feel like an idiot.
Hey, wait, they always told us at camp that that stuff turned pink - and we were supposed to laugh and point if it did. And that was the somewhat nicer camp. At the other camp, we had to keep our underwear folded and we got marked down if there were eighth-inch lint balls anywhere near the cabin. At the other other camp my best friend was a goat.
Torn is good. If there is a God, he gave you a brain to think with. Duh!
Now I would pee in the pool when no one was there, just to see what would happen.
Welcome, stroll! I went by your place and left a clueless comment for you. Thanks for your post here; I have to disagree with you about the agnostic thing, though. For me, anyway, it just acknowledges the impossibility of actually knowing whether any kind of god is or isn't out there, which, again for me, is the only honest stance I can take.
But I totally hear you about the non-logic of the Calvinist view. A lot of fundamentalists, as you probably know, take a more, um, nuanced approach to this by saying God knows in advance what choices we all are gonna make about Jesus and whether to Be Saved, but that foreknowledge in no way impinges on our Free Will.
Which still says, in the "God is the omnipotent and active-in-mens'-affairs Creator" theology, that God creates people knowing in advance that they're going to choose to send themselves to hell. So maybe God allows all the (self) condemned to exist so that the "elect" will appreciate just how saved they are? I dunno. The "I already know you're eternally damned, but I love you anyway" God doesn't quite work for me, though.
Bootless Bitch ... so sad. But no jacket either? Where was your head while you were packing? Have a great time anyway, though. (Panel with Berube! Woot!)
Welcome, Stroll!
I'll have to disagree with you about atheism, too. I just don't believe in god's existence. It's that simple. What else can I call myself other than atheist?
My husband is agnostic--aka he simply doesn't care if god exists or not.
Hey, you don't have to go all the way to NC for a Moravian Love Feast. They have 'em here right regular-like in Bethlehem, PA, only a couple hours from Queens...
Hi Stroll,
Thanks for sharing your experience of former xian angst. Only relatively recently have I come to terms with my own doubt and underlying atheism. When I look back on my previous life of "faith", much of the internal conflict I recall makes more sense to me now. But, like you, I still have those moments of doubt about doubt; I mostly attribute it to years of habituation. Part of me misses the ritual and the music, but my head is much happier with reason than with mystery.
Thanks for your post.
And Dr. B, I hope you enjoy Minneapolis; believe it or not most of us locals consider the current weather rather balmy.
Shaggy, if it's not absolutely frigid I should be okay--I did pack a wool opera cape (b/c it packs small) but just forgot to bring a coat when I left the house since it was Southern California and fucking 70 degrees or some shit.
and when are Ms Kate and frumious b going to get a guest hitch, hmmm?
Bwah! If it's this frumious b yer talkin' to, I'll keep my cat-loving ass in the comments, the better to taunt you with.
Welcome Stroll. I pissed off my mother by mentioning the Pope's red, Prada shoes, causing my brother to exclaim, "what is he, gay?" and me to respond, "those are the rumors." ooo, she didn't like that. Who else pissed off religious relatives, and how?
I’m also not one of those “agnostic” people, because they are just atheists who are afraid of commitment.
Oh god, no, please don't make me come up with some hair-splitting cutesy-poo word to describe agnostic because somebody decided too many people knew what it meant for it to be 'cool' anymore.
Agnostics aren't atheists, kthxbye.
How about "atheist with theist tendencies"?
Told you the humor doesn't translate.
Oh scarletm, there are scatterings elsewhere...I just like to pretend there's something unique about NC.
I've labeled my DH an apolytheist, because there are many gods in which he does not believe.
I also laugh when I hear Garrison Keillor talk about Minnesota, where even the atheists are Lutherans, because it's the Lutheran God that they don't believe in...
TinaH:
"because it's the Lutheran God that they don't believe in..."
It's more than that. Being a Lutheran atheist means that despite embracing reason one feels that unbelief is paradoxically a gracious gift of faith. In, with, and under the reason, that is.
Hey Stroll, thanks for the elucidation over at your place; Wikipedia has now educated me. 
No, I just need to remember to breathe, chill out, and not drag arguments around with me.
Shutting up now. : x
Hey, don't hate on the I'm-not-religious-I'm spiritual people; I'm one of them.
I think something happens after death, but don't ask me what that something actually is. And I believe that it is more likely than not that there is a God, but don't bother asking me what that God wants us all to do, because I can't answer that one either.
. . .since it was Southern California and fucking 70 degrees or some shit.
Wait a minute. Minneapolis?
Is the boyfriend meeting you? Fess up - you were really thinking about the hot sex, weren't you?
I'll keep my cat-loving ass in the comments
I *knew* there was a reason Frumious can't guest blog here. She'd just write long posts about what a terrible pet owner I am! No way, dude.
Shaggy Maniac said
> It's more than that. Being a
> Lutheran atheist means that despite
> embracing reason one feels that
> unbelief is paradoxically a
> gracious gift of faith. In, with,
> and under the reason, that is.
That's complicated - kind of like American citizenship is supposed to be in that whole free speech arena. I may hate what you're saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it (paraphrasing wildly).
I think it's easier to be a fallen away Catholic Wiccan.
I came out as an atheist to my uber-religious (Catholic) family when I was in college... and still living at home. There was... strife. And angst, including threats to kick me out of the house and never speak to me again. But in the end, there was acceptance on both sides, and it was good.
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