Comments on The Den
sorry if I posted this more than once, my puter decided to crash when I hit 'publish'.
hi, i'm really sorry you weren't able to get EC. The doctors are just trying to control women! How would they like it if they could get pregnant and they had no choice about whether or not they gave birth!
Anyway in lostclown's "angry for a reason" blog there is a September 17 2006 entry about how to induce a miscarriage herbally (and safely).
Hope this helps
Fuck the fucking fuckers.
Oh, and using BC pills as EC (brands, dosages) and herbal induction.
That is just awful.
*hugs*
Go to planned parenthood and ask if they can give you a perscription of EC to stockpile for the next time this happens?
This is just awful!
*hugs*
Go to PP anyhow, and get a perscription so you can stockpile a dose until it becomes available over the counter?
Manxome,
I've seen these before but I take Ortho Novum 777 and I've never seen it listed on these lists. In fact, I'm going to edit the post to ask anyone if they can refer me to a place where it tells me what to take with my brand of birth control.
It looks like my original post never showed up, so I'll try again!
I'm so sorry that this has happened to you BB, I can't imagine how stressful it must be. Isn't it against the law for them to refuse you medication that you need?
lots of love and hugs
oh and what Manxome said: fuck the fucking fuckers
If you do end up getting pregnant and having to have an abortion, you should send them all a bill, with a note about how this is the cost of their "morality" and they should be willing to stand up for their beliefs.
The bastards.
This is so shitty, I don't even have words. So much for "easy access".
Since you still have a few hours before the "window" closes, I hope you're out right now at a Planned Parenthood, getting a prescription or the pill itself. Good luck.
Laurelin - Isn't it against the law for them to refuse you medication that you need?
Yes, but by their warped reasoning, she doesn't "need" this medication. She is not bleeding, raped, or traumetized. Ergo, she doesn't "need" Plan B, she only "wants" it, and they don't have to pay attention to "wants". And once again a woman is given a pat on the head and told not to worry her pretty little head about it. Pfaugh!
SW
Via the link that Manxome left I have found a clinic that will dispense Plan B for me. Unfortunately they are an hour and a half drive from me one way. They don't have a doctor there right now who can call in an Rx so the only way I can get the stuff is to drive out there.
They did refer me to their sister clinic and said that they have a doctor on staff there who may call in an Rx for me. I'm currently waiting for my damned telephone to recharge (the kids leave it off the hook and it runs the battery down) so I can call and see if they'll call me in a prescription.
So at the moment I'm waiting to make a phone call and then, if that fails, I'll have to take a 3 hour round trip to get this stuff.
This is a medication that has already been approved and they're STILL running women through the fucking ringer before they can get it!!! I'm angry and I'm worried and I'm jumping out of my skin here *sigh* but we'll see what happens.
When oh when will we stop marching down the road toward the dystopia Margaret Drabble describes so vividly in A Handmaid's Tale? I'm sorry this is happening to you, BB, and that as a privileged, white, middle-class male, I haven't done more with my privileges to turn that march around.
This mentions that one clinical trial found a pill with your ingredients (ethinyl estradiol and norethindrone) can be used but is not as effective, and they suggest using them only if no other type is available. They do not for this reason list it in their formualry (I swear I got "back" to the princeton site through google, not because I was limiting myself to that site). They don't reference the study, but it used Ortho Tri-Cyclen. Still looking.
Hi BB,
Wow, this is horrible! It's hard to believe this kind of rampant chauvinism (cause IMHO that's what it is) still exists and is ALLOWED to prevail over a woman's right to choose in the 21st century. Your body is your own and no man, whether he's a doctor or not, has the right to play God and override your personal decisions.
I agree with the poster who said if men had to deal with this kind of thing it would be a non-issue. Just another example of patriarchal tyranny at its worst...
Hope you got the EC and that everything turned out all right. BTW: I had a similar problem when I became pregnant and decided to terminate about 10 years ago, (the timing was wrong and, yes, it was also due to condom failure). It took me several hours on the phone and then a six hour drive across three state lines before I could find a clinic to perform the procedure and then the doctor botched it, so I wound up with a massive uterine infection and almost died. Because of this incident, my Fallopian tubes are permanently scarred and I can't now have children, no matter how much I may want them. So much for reproductive freedom in the good old (boys) US of A.
Best wishes from bookyone 
(Sorry I keep commenting in pieces)
Okay. Here under "Additinal Information" they say "Must be taken with food within 72 hours of unprotected sexual intercourse. One single course (2 doses 12 hours apart) is a one-time emergency protection. Using more than one course in a month will reduce the effectiveness." THIS IS FOR ORTHO TRI-CYCLEN, which has the same two ingredients as the 777. Now it's off to figure out how the two compare as far as their formulations.
Again, the previous post pointed out that one study was done and showed it worked (these are synthetic hormones and I guess that's the difference), but not as effectively as other BC EC methods.
I really hope that you are able to get the medication. That is crap but truly, I'm not surprised.
The next problem when it does go over the counter is finding the pharmacies that will actually keep it in stock. They are supposed to carry the Today Sponge (another OTC birth control option for woman) in the pharmacy but when I went on my search for it, I was told that it had to be ordered. I can only imagine they will say the same thing about the EC, and of course, the day it will come in is the day it won't be effective.
oops, margaret atwood, sorry
Okay (aack), that last link was for Ortho tri-cyclen, but the information part is generic for BC pills and not specific to that one or type.
First of all - I am so sorry you've been through this. Sickening.
Secondly - I know you said only condoms had been possible as birth control but if you miss the window for hormonal EC, would having an IUD fitted be a possibility? Lower success rate (and I'm not sure that the idiots who wouldn't give you a pill would be any more amenable to a coil), but it does work up to 5 days after the condom broke...
I took EC a while ago, it was only 36 hours after the fact and by then it was already too late, I was already pregnant, so I had an abortion.
Just throwing more sad information into the pile. I'm so sorry and angry that you are going through this hatred of women's sexuality. I wish you luck that the timing was off, and if not, I hope you do send those assholes the bill for your abortion.
Oh my god, I am so sorry that the goddamm American Taliban-warped medical establishment won't give you the medicine you rightfully need.
Men-Who-Refuse-to-Get-It, let me explain very carefully: this is not a hypothetical situation. These fuckers think they have a right to tell a competent adult how to live her life. Jesus of Nazareth called these kinds of folks "whited sepulchres." Ya got that, American Taliban? Jesus had your number two thousand years ago.
I don't do hugs, so may I slap the doctors and probirthers around at your request? One free ass-kicking on demand.
Disgusting, really. If it's been approved, it should go into effect immediately. It's not like they actually have to change anything over, realistically!
I hope you successfully find EC. I wish you could go to a paper with this story.
very bad news 
.
Seems Roe is dead on the water as well
I am sorry BB. I hope it worked for you.
Oh god, sweetheart, I hope you're okay.
I am appalled. Beyond appalled. I would fire every single one of those bastards who denied you access to Plan B.
I would write to the newspapers and tell them your story. Name the hospitals and pharmacies and your doctor, if you dare. However, living in a rural area - you might not be able to do any of this for fear of reprisal.
Jesus Christ.
I don't know if you're out of the window yet, or you've manged to get EC, but I had a similar problem a few years ago, and my friend (who is an ER nurse) had me take two normal birth control pills, and then two more an hour later. He said it was pretty much the same thing. His wife was generous enough to let me have some of hers. I don't know if that's the reason I didn't get pregnant, but there you have it.
Update:
I've found a clinic that will give me EC. The bad news is that they're an hour and half from me (3 hours round trip) the good news is that there's still time (although I'm coming in under the wire).
None of the local hospitals or doctors would prescribe it for me without their 'criteria' being met. The closest Planned Parenthood is still an hour and 15 minutes from me and is in a really scary part of town. The next closest planned parenthood won't be open again until Tuesday *sigh*.
BUT I did find a clinic who will give it to me and I'm getting ready to walk out the door and make the trip. Unfortunately I can't buy any extra either *sigh*. But at least I can find someone who will dispense it for me. Now I just have to drive an hour and a half to get it.
EC MIGHT be effective more than 72 hours out. They just don't consider the odds good enough to recommend any farther out than that. I hope you can make it to PP today!
I wrote an OB/Gyn and a sex ed counselor with the general stuff about your predicament as well as your medical question. I hope they can help you strategize if you really can't make it to PP today.
Best of luck,
Katie
Oh, and by the way, that nurse, if you ever find out his name again (in another phone call?) might be a great contact when you need an ally for some activist activity. Letter-writer from a "professional in the medical establishment" to some local authority, just one more voice at a protest, a man who will talk to his buddies when they step out of line and potentially change their hearts, etc.
Once this is over, keep his name if you can.
Whoops--okay, just got to the end. Canceled my messages to the doc & counselor.
Anyway, I had one more thought about stocking up: colleges. Especially colleges that spend a good amount of money on their students and/or have some liberal administrators/students.
My college gave EC for free to students right on campus (they had a nurse practitioner).
Know any college students who could (even if it's after January next year) claim to be worried about themselves and get a pill as a backup for you?
BB, this is just unbelievable. What the hell is wrong with these people? If they are doctors and nurses they know their patients are *human* and have sex.
This must be incredibly stressful for you.
Beaver,
I'm glad you found a clinic that will give you the EC. And I'm so very sorry you had to go through this bullshit.
Here's a suggestion for you. Why don't you stick up fliers, or maybe write to all the women, in that doctor's area, notifying them that if they're ever in trouble they'll get no help from him? Name him and shame him, while remaining anonymous yourself, and incidentally prevent other women from wasting their time going to him. If you don't feel inclined to stick up fliers all around town, maybe you could do so in Planned Parenthoods or something.
I'm so sorry that all of this happened to you. I've got a script for it until it becomes available, but guess what? My pharmacy doesn't carry it. I accidently handed them that script instead of my allergy pill one, and she got all haughty with me and said they didn't stock it. So if I ever have to use it, the gods know where I'll be able to find somewhere that carries it. No one can give me a definite answer on who carries it. When it comes out over the counter, I plan on quietly buying a pack here and a pack there so that I not only have a dose, but one or two extra "just in case". Not because I have decided that hey, I'll just take that instead, but because shit happens, I'm enjoying a child-free life, I'm not married to my man, don't plan to be any time soon, and flat out can't afford a kid. And I live in the south and don't trust people to actually hold to the law. Or anything that requires something other than bible-thumping morals.
I hope you're not pregnant, BB. In the future, here's an online resource:
http://getthepill.com/
I hate this so much. I'm so sorry you've had to go through this BB.
The only criteria applied to dispensing a drug should be medical: do you have any conditions that would make taking this drug dangerous for you? Not the doctor's personal moral code.
Bastards. How dare they.
Comment Posted Successfully
I have my fingers crossed for you. I had a similar situation about six years ago, though without the overt shaming. The condom broke Sunday night.Monday, I contacted my doctor from work. The doctor called in the prescription. I went to pick it up on my way home from work. They had none in stock and hadnt bothered to tell me or the doctor that. The doctor's office was closed. I didn't have a paper prescription because he had called it in. I got it sorted out the next day and picked up the pills on my way home, but I had to go to the next town to find a pharmacy that stocked it. This was in liberal greater Boston, by the way.
It was too late. I was pregnant, and wound up having an abortion.
I was 42 years old at the time. My doctor, who was terrific and did the termination for me, told me it shouldnt be that easy to get pregnant at my age...but it can happen anytime. I keep Plan B on hand now, so there can be no delay. My current doctor does not like it, but he doesn't like abortion either, so he's willing to compromise (or lose me as a patient). I'm 48 now, and still fertile, and he fears me getting pregnant more than he fears the other alternatives.
Oh.My.God. Ohmygod. I'm just so pissed off I can't even think of anything to say.
I'd like to write a letter to each and every damned place that gave you the run around.
I've heard that vaginal contraceptive film is a decent back-up for future use -- you have to use it with the condom, though. Also, you do have up to 120 hours, but ECs are most effecitive within the first 72. Sorry this happened to you, because it's just wrong. The one time it happened to me, even when I got the scrip, they presecribed the wrong dosage.
I am so sorry you are going through this. I hope that it all works out.
I thought I would mention to you that I use the nuva right and since it sits in the vagina I seem not to have all the hideous side effects I had with all the BCP I tried ever. They all made me ill. I have a tentative PCOS diagnosis and the doctor wanted me to use the ring to regulate my periods.
For BC my husband had a vasectomy because I can't be pregnant again. If that ever fails, I will have to terminate.
I would think that a long term relation, when you were using a condom that broke you would meet criteria. It's not like you are 12 for crying out loud. They have no rights to treat you so badly.
I am sorry. I hope everything all works out okay.
*hugs*
Good Luck, and have a safe drive.
I wonder if you could sue your doctor? Or the Emergency Rooms?
This is frankly, disgusting. In Chicago you can order it from planned parenthood online and pick it up at the nearest pharmacy. It seems that these laws are really going to be a lot about where you live.
I thought I recalled Planned Parenthood being able to deliver EC by mail, overnight? I guess it's too late this time but to make a note of.
I found a web link to Planned Parenthood in Canton Ohia that had a form for ordering it.
I am so sorry you had to go through this bullshit. It is a horrible situation.
Horrifying.
I HATE sexism. I HATE IT.
Glad you've found a clinic, finally. This should not be happening, should not have happened to you.
I think you have a good case for gender discrimination. WTF does your marita status at the time of having sex have to do with the morality of terminating a pregnancy??? The rape exception is highly hypocritical as it is, the only excuse for requiring marriage is that a man would be making the decision.
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
ohhhh BB. I'm so sorry for this shit they made you go through.
I really hope you have the meds now and that you don't feel too sick with them over the next few days.
offers **hugs**
You are being very responsible and all these people are trying to deny you what you need. It's ridiculous and shocking. I thought all that had been sorted out in the US now. I must have been very wrong.
Take good care,
Z
I'm glad you've found something, though it's silly to be grateful about a partial and inconvenient solution. Disgusting behavior from all of them. I'm so sorry you're going through all of this.
Fucking hell!!!!!! Goddamn those bastards for putting you through this!
*hugs*
Have you seen this website? http://www.getthepill.com/
I haven't used it, but according to the site a doctor will phone in a prescription for you, for a $25 fee. They have a questionnaire, but it asks things like your age, what state you're in, and when you had your last period; the questionnaire page is even encrypted.
Unfortunately they say they can't help you if you're in AK, AL, AR, AZ, CT, DE, FL, IA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MO, MS, MT, ND, NE, NH, NV, OK, RI, SC, SD, TX, UT, VT, WA, WV, or WY.
This means Ohio is OK, if you're still looking.
Wow, that's awful! See, this is what happens when they let a person's "morals" interfere with their job... People suffer when they don't have to.
Theoretically, the barrage of hormones should work... But I wouldn't do it. Though, I think the "do not take if you think you could be pregnant" warning is there for a reason.
You should investigate other forms of BC... If you absolutely don't want anymore kids you should think about "getting your tubes tied." They'll probably let you do it because you have children... but your marital status could get in the way of that. I dunno, it's something to think about.
I hope that you don't get pregnant! But if you do, abortion is still an option (there are clinics that perform them nearby, aren't there? It wouldn't shock me if there weren't).
Damn. I'm sending money to Planned Parenthood right now. If they're the only ones who will dispense EC without ridiculous subjective "criteria," it would be helpful if they could afford to be open 7 days a week ...
http://www.fwhc.org/birth-contro...trol/
ecinfo.htm
I have also read the herbal induction is quite effective.
do you have any female friends you can get a packet of these pills from ?? worst case scenario, do you have craigs list in your area & can you ask any women out there if they can give you a packet of these pills?
Yee-ikes. So glad you found a clinic that will dispense if for you and that you made it there in time. Still, to have to go through all that shit - there's just no fucking excuse for it. huge *hugs*
This is absolutely one of the most appalling things I have ever read. What country is this?
I've got my fingers crossed, but if you do end up having to abort, I wholly support sending gnarled bits and pieces in the mail to all the people who helped set you up for it.
Those bastards. What the hell were they thinking?
Here is ONE MORE REASON why we need to support PLANNED PARENTHOOD. They are our ONLY ALLIES ! Or so it seems. I am 45 and though I live in Texas, I have never been slut shamed for my BC choices....but APPARENTLY, only because I have Planned Parenthood clinics in my city. (Oh, yeah, and I became infertile around the time Bush stole the Presidency....sort of joking, but I am sure that helped.)
Just asking here, becasue I am not sure I read this correctly, or understood it correctly: Did the fucktards involved ask if you were married, because if YOUR HUSBAND didn't want the pregnancy, they would have written the script? Or would they have advised you to just accept the Lord's addition to your "quiver"? I think the Godbags are especially freaked out by MARRIED people who don't want/can't afford another child. Or is it truly about males getting the say-so?
What a bunch of assholes! My best advice for you is to go somewhere to get a prescription to any of the birth control brands listed at the Emma Goldman clinic:
http://www.emmagoldman.com/servi...control/
ecp.htm
There's a chart -- scroll down to the bottom.
You can follow the directions to self-administer emergency contraception, then. What a pain in the ass, though. I wish to hell doctors were not allowed to withhold treatment. It should be illegal.
That is unbelievable.
I hope things work out okay for you, BB. I guess it's normal to presume that if a medicine should be available, it is.
The doctors would change their attitude pretty quick if they were in your situation.
Good luck, BB. I hope you got in there in time.
I had a similar thing happen to me when I was in college. Luckily, being in a big college town, there was a Planned Parenthood nearby. Unluckily, the condom broke on a Friday night during the summer break so PP wasn't open until Monday. The local hospital wouldn't write me a prescription unless I'd been raped.
So I went to the PP and luckily didn't get pregnant.
FYI, I live in Columbus now and if anything like this happens again in the next couple months I am more than willing to help you out. Or anyone else in middle-of-nowhere Ohio.
This is just fucking sickening. What a bunch of moralistic assholes. I sure hope you don't get pregnant. Odds are you won't -- not that that's much comfort while you're waiting around to find out.
Just as well I was stuck in court all day and didn't read this earlier. I don't need more help finding shit to fume about.
BB, I hope you can get your hands on the pills soon. Since it's too late to offer any helpful advice, let me know if I can airlift you some more booze.
P.S.-- I needed EC this summer for the same reason you did. I just had to drive w/mr_xeno about ten minutes outside the OR border into WA. But our charming Catholic insurer still didn't cover diddly. I was out 60 bucks. I was out 60 bucks for two lousy tablets. >: If I'd been single, maybe the pharmacist would have added a Slut Tax. You know, just for laughs.
Grrr...
The folks at the rape crisis centre I used to volunteer at said that Plan B was good up to 5 days afterward so it's definitely still worth getting.
Here's a database of EC providers, searchable by city, state, zip:
http://ec.princeton.edu/get-ec-now.html
If you look at the lists for various states it's striking how high a proportion of EC providers are Planned Parenthood.
The tendency of some feminists to regard women purely as sexual victims rather than sexual subjects, and to define the movement's goal as controlling male sexuality rather than demanding women's freedom to lead active sexual lives, reinforces women's oppression and plays into the hands of the new Right.
Ellen Willis, Village Voice columnist
I am amused by the question about marital status, because if you say yes, they probably don't ask whether it was he you were having intercourse with.
I'm glad you got to get an EC prescription. I hope it's in time. Others pointed out the problem of pharmacies stocking it when it goes OTC, but hopefully at least then you'll be able to have a friend mail you some as a backup if you can't get it in your area. At least that practice will be decriminalized if we can't get full legalization and the requisite space on every pharmacy's shelf.
Is there a better primary doctor for you out there? Your own doctor put you through this... that's unbelievable. (Of course I totally believe it, having grown up in a rural area myself. This is why you COULD NOT PAY ME ENOUGH to go back to the supposed "heartland".) Anyway, if it was me I would not only find a new PCP but give the old one a major earfull on my way out, right in the waiting room where everyone can hear. But I'm a shit-stirrer. 
This SUCKS. It sent chills up my spine all day long yesterday. BB, I really hope you're doing OK. This just sucks.
Kind of interesting that they asked whether you were married. I wonder what these idiots would do if a woman is raped by her husband. I assume their heads would explode with cognitive dissonance.
Out of curiosity, did you consider lying to the doctor and telling him you were married? I know it's none of his business, but if it gets the job done...
why hasnt your partner gotten snipped?
hi there
a friend send this through to me.
pregnant or not, you should check into filing a lawsuit for negligence!!!
this is the most awfull thing i've read in a long time and i feel truly sick to my stomack. i'm so sorry you had to go through all that. i'm going back to being an old style feminist. one seems to need to these days. this is the sort of thing that makes me realise we are really no where...
artemisia, belgian historian dancer and feminist.
BoobyV, I'm not sure of your point in posting the comments of a pro-john woman writer in this particular thread; maybe you could explain? Anyway, I like this Willis quote more:
"...the stubborn cultural assumption that men have the right to define the sexual norms women must defer to, men’s resistance to acknowledging or accommodating women’s demands for change in those norms, the corollary assumption that men’s view of what goes on between men and women is reality, while contrary views expressed by women are oversensitive, dishonest, vindictive or crazy..."
- from Villain and Victims
What an incredibly fucked up story. The only "criteria" should be whether it would work for you, not why you want to prevent ovulation.
Even though I'm on the ring and my partner is snipped, I think I'll pick up a few packs once it's over the counter. Not only will I learn which pharmacies aren't staffed by jerks, but I'll have some available to overnight to folks who need it. Maybe roedepot.com is a place where people can volunteer to send out their Plan B packs....
Hey, BobbyV, you and Ellen Willis can BOTH go fuck yourselves. Or each other.
This makes me sick. That you have to pass their "criteria" to decide whether you have to be punished for your evil sin of having sex outside of marriage! I want to throw up, this is ridiculous. I can't believe they're allowed to pass their moral judgements on your body like that, that they can use their medical power to disempower women's right to decide what happens to their bodies. If you get pregnant, its your fault you didn't close your legs, you filthy slut! Oh, but if you're married it's okay, because you were just doing your wifely duty, or if you were raped, it's not your fault!
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I feel like we're living in a third world country.
This is completely outrageous! Here in the UK you can just buy it over the counter after a quick consultation with the pharmacist. No big heavy questions asked, more of a here is what to expect sort of thing. Sorry I do not have any advice to give you.
this is horrifying and infuriating. let us know what happens next. I'm so sorry you are experiencing this.
xx Tx
http://www.plannedparenthood.org...cedure-
4366.htm
This is planned parenthood's link to cobble emergency contraception from various birth control pills. SAVE THIS LINK.
Next, you need to switch doctors. Yours is a tool. WTF? this could have been avoided so easily if she would have just called in a prescription for you. Getting pissy because you contacted her while she was on call? That's why she's on call! If she can't bothered to be your doc when you need her? You need a new doc, simple as that.
As for the doctor that was willing to prescribe if you were married and was SOL if you weren't I would file a WRITTEN complaint to the hospital he works and to the state licensing board. There are no real criteria for Plan B. So that policy is just BS.
Did you call a catholic hospital, just curious?
Erin,
No, none of the hospitals I called were Catholic hospitals. They were simply county hospitals.
As for my doctor in specific. I was surprised and, quite frankly appalled that she didn't fill the prescription. I will most definatly be finding a new doctor as well as letting people know her stance on EC.
Holy shit. I'm sorry you had to go through all this crap... I can't believe the sexism of it all. How is whether or not it was rape and your freaking marital status relevant? And, as you said, making the huge deal out of whether or not you were too slutty for their standards while failing to ask you any questions about your *health*?!
"I wonder what these idiots would do if a woman is raped by her husband"
They probably wouldn't consider it rape, since she 'gave her body' in marriage.
Wow! The nerve of some people! They just don't get it! I am more upset by some of the comments here. Why should she have to justify to you or anyone else why she doesn't have permanent protection or why her partner isn't snipped? That is just as stupid of having to get answer morality questions from a doctor.
It's absolutely ridiculous.
One of our local doctors wrote a letter to the editor in which she said "Almost any birth control pill can be taken as emergency contraception within three days of unprotected intercourse to prevent a pregnancy. You will need to take between two and five of the regular "pills" to achieve this goal." This is an fyi for anybody who has this problem in the future.
Do you think of your other kids as parasites? Must make them feel so much love. why not get your man snipped or your tubes tied? Better yet keep your legs closed.
I got here from cf_hardcore_wf. Advice: if you have any of your oral BC left, they function as EC. There is a chart at the bottom of this page. Find the contraceptive that you have, or borrow what you need from a friend. It works the same way as EC in that it keeps the egg from attaching from the uterine wall. Good luck.
This is just insane. I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that crap, and I do hope you tear your doctor a new one.
Hey Hephastion,
Here's an idea, how about you just fuck off?
Kids as parasites? You bet your ass they are. So are my dogs and my horses. They need me to take care of them, feed them, keep them safe. They are completely unable to fend for themselves unless I do it for them.
Yeah, kids are parasites. The difference is that I know how many parasites I want and/or can handle.
Take your almighty bullshit and stick it up your ass you naive little shit. As for your advice, it's nearly as worthless as the mouth it came out of.
(oh, and the only reason your comment was approved is because it'll be incredibly amusing to watch my commenters rip your head off while you can do nothing but sit and watch because that's the last comment of yours that's getting through. I can imagine you squirming as you get more and more pissed that your bullshit won't be unscreened for anyone to hear)
hephastion - That was totally uncalled for. BB was being responsible and using birth control. It failed her. She was trying to find something which would be a backup. Ergo, Plan B.
I agree that, once you have yourself taken care of, you need to file complaints with the appropriate people and boards. Expecially with County Hospitals. They generally have a Board which they are accountable to and they many time have to report to the State health Department as well.
You also might want to find a Feminist investigative reporter...
The nice thing is that for most of us there are many choices of BC availible. The Spounge is back (YAY!), The Lea Shield, Contraceptive film, as well as many forms of traditional BC. Liek you, I have diffuculties taking hormones, but because of issues several years ago, I still keep a package or two around.
Good luck with this.
Hephastion . . . God, I can't even say it.
Biting Beaver, I'd email your story to every newsreporter within a 180 mile radius of your home.
When you change doctors, make sure that she, all the clinic employees, and all of her colleagues, know why you did it.
One more thing: Just because you are in "the middle of knowhere" doesn't mean you're surrounded by fundamentalist whackjobs and all alone. Clear-thinking, liberal-minded, caring people can be found everywhere. SOOOO . . . Make some huge noise! You are NOT the only woman in town who's been demoralized by these creeps. If you make yourself known, your allies will come right out of the woodwork.
Oh, how thoughtful of hephastion to offer himself up to take the brunt of the collective anger here.
I always wonder why anyone would ever offer such obviously well thought-out advice as "keep your legs closed". That's sounds an awful lot like "you shall not enjoy or want it" and really, if all women did that, I'm sure mankind would be just fine with it and not get off on forcing said legs apart. At all!
But hey, it's not like I hate you or anything, heph. It is people like you, after all, that help fuel the anger which leads to real action. All from behind your little keyboard. Thanks!
None of you are going to believe this but that was a genuine typo I did on BobbyV's name.
Please ignore those nasty comments... as you know, idiots make up a large population on the internet. I'm surprised they know how to work a mouse.
I popped over here from hearing about your plight on Violet Socks's blog. From what I know, all the morning after pill does is prevent implantation if fertilization does indeed occur. Isn’t it true that other forms of birth control do the exact same thing? I have an IUD, for example. It works in several different ways but one of the ways that it works in preventing pregnancy is it prevents implantion should fertilization ever occur.
IUDs are regularly dispensed by doctors without anyone blinking an eye. Why should the very same doctors have any kind of qualms with EC?
In fact what many people don’t know is.. IF YOU’RE PREGNANT, the morning-after-pill will NOT cause an abortion. So no point in the Pro-Lifers getting all up in arms. Dumbasses.
I wish you well and hope everything works out.
technically, only birth control pills that contain levonogestrel are approved for use as birth control, and those are the ones listed in the tables people linked above. EC works for up to 120 hours after unprotected intercourse, so if you can still get a hold of one of those listed EC providers and get a script, i'd definitely recommend that. if you can't, but can get fill your old pill script, it's less effective, but could still work. however, i'm not completely sure what the best dosing would be because it uses norethindrone instead of levonogestrel. Looking at the study where they tried norethindrone, they used 2mg norethindrone instead of 1mg levonogestrel. for levonogestrel/ethinyl estradiol, you need at least 0.5mg/100mcg, so that'd be at least 1mg/100mcg if you used norethindrone. in ortho novum, the closest is 3 of the week 1 pills, or 1.5mg noethrindrone and 105mcg ethinyl estradiol. so, 3 pills for the first dose, and 3 for the second dose 12 hours later.
note: i am not a doctor, so please keep that in mind when reading my post. it's up to you to decide if it's worth taking pills that are not approved for use as EC or not. the risks are similar to that of taking other EC, and the efficacy is slightly less than that of approved pills for EC.
References:
Ellertson, C et al. "Modifying the Yuzpe regimen of emergency contraception: a multicenter randomized controlled trial." Obstet Gynecol. 2003 Jun;101(6):1160-7.
http://www.wdxcyber.com/ncontr13.htm
http://ec.princeton.edu/question.../
dose.html#dose
I wonder if doctors subject men to the same treatement before writing scripts for Viagra? After all, men wanting to have sex should be married first.
Sam, what are the names of those reporters in Toledo who keep doing stories on sex trafficking? They might be interested in this story.
Hephastion -- I can't believe the sheer, unmitigated, entitled gall of your words; I don't see how you could be any more wrong.
Why not get your man snipped or your tubes tied?
What possessed you to ask such personal, intimate questions? It's none of your goddamn business! BB and Dubhe are gracious enough to share selected pieces of their lives with us. I'm grateful; they've expanded my consciousness, and I've learned a lot. However, that does not give me, or you, or anybody else the right to question how they live their lives. They certainly don't have to answer to you or anyone about the intimate details of how they conduct and share their sexuality. Just how crass can you be?
Better yet keep your legs closed.
You strike me as one of those entitled twerps who think a woman should always accomodate her man when he wants sex. Got a headache, too tired, just don't feel like it? Not good enough; the man wants to fuck, and the woman must comply. But let an unavoidable accident occur and suddenly it's her fault, and she should have prevented the accident by "keeping her legs closed".
Guess what? You can't have it both ways. Either she "accomodates" his desire for sexual intimacy, or she "keeps her legs closed" -- in which case, we might be reading about a frustrated Dubhe, and you'd be ranting about her being a cold-hearted bitch and what would be the harm of her "putting out". There is no middle ground, asshole -- the big macho man cannot have access to the sex that you think is his "right" if the woman keeps her legs closed. To hold both of these ideas at once demonstrates that you are an idiot.
(My apologies, BB and Dubhe. I know that isn't how you approach relations, but I suspect that's this guy's thinking, and the only language he'll understand.)
Furthermore, how the hell do you turn all of this into BB's fault? (a)The condom broke -- an unpreventable accident, and no one's fault. (b) The pharmacy, which is supposed to stock this now-legal drug, will not do so until Jan 1st. I'm sure BB held off the incoming shipments at gunpoint, right? (c) Her doctor, with whom she had a working relationship, refuses to prescribe EC. Oh, right, BB twisted her arm until she said 'no'. (d) A number of clinics, ERs, and doctors refused to give her access to the pill -- completely legal, by the way, since she's over 18 -- because it offended their morals. Of course, she shouldn't have walked in there flaunting that skin-tight vinyl miniskirt... oh, wait, this was all over the phone! But still, obviously her fault, somehow.
Boy, what a lot of power she has. BB, will you run for president? You could bring about world peace and wipe out world hunger. Oh, wait... you have to be 35. Okay, next time then; I'll vote for you.
Heph, suppose you walked into the ER and the doctor said, "Boy, that's a suspicious-sounding cough. Could be the first stages of XXX, which is passed among homosexuals. Are you a homo, boy?" To your indignant denials, the doctor says, "You're lying, boy; I know a homo when I see one. Go on, get out of here; we don't treat your kind. You'll just have deal with that cough yourself. Better hope it's not cancer; too bad for you if it is."
So tell me; was that your fault? No? Good; BB was just as much at fault in her case as you were in the hypothetical situation above.
But if it happened, wouldn't you be a little bit pissed? More like flaming enraged, with good reason. And BB has good reason to be every bit as enraged -- because she was refused treatment based on their suppositions of the kind of person she is -- in exactly the same way that our hypothetical non-gay guy was.
Is this starting to get through your thick skull? Can you see the injustice yet? And then you come here with your snarky entitled moralism and, as crudely as possible, tell her that it's all her fault for "not keeping her legs closed". You, sir, are lower than worm dung, and about as attractive, but probably less intelligent.
BobbyV, or are you Ellen Willis? --
...to define the movement's goal as controlling male sexuality rather than demanding women's freedom to lead active sexual lives...
BB spent over two days trying to acquire emergency birth control for herself. Just how to you equate that with an attempt to "control male sexuality"? Seems to me that she was demanding her freedom to lead an active sexual life. A number of assholes refused her that right.
That quote is so far beyond sense that 'sense' can't even be seen in the distance. Your brain has left the building.
.
Oh, my...I came here from Feministing, read the post and through all of these comments, and I'm so angry on your behalf that I'm still shaking.
This is so, so, so wrong...I hope you are alright.
www.getthepill.com
i don't know if this is actually legit as i've never used it but i've been searching the internet.
also: http://www.ritecare.com/ec.asp
and i would suggest randomly faxing FACT sheets to the idiot nurses at the hospitals you called that refer to EC as abortion pills.
i f*****ing hate voluntary ignorance.
change your doctor too.
and keep posting updates. hundreds of us are supporting you. know that.
~e.
If you're willing to go out in the open even more about this, get a lawyer.
oh and regarding that "Hephastion" moron, no worries, we're just waiting on the remainder of his kind to die out. tell him to smoke another cigarillio. eat some hot dogs. pat his belly. belch. fart. and avert his gaze when a woman speaks. he's not worthy.
people who still think like that: they're the amoebas of society just trying to stir their crackly fingers in the pot and not realizing that the world has evolved quite a bit further beyond that by now.
Dear BB,
I am absolutely horrified at what you've had to go through. Am in the UK myself and needed EC a month ago. No problems getting it.
How can doctors and chemists (pharmacists) get away with picking and choosing what parts of their jobs they want to do???
I wish you all the best.
I too came here from Feministing and read the post. This is so horrifying. Why must we constantly be set up for degradation when we are simply trying to make choices about our own bodies.
Your story made me cry and ultimately has made me so fired up fucking angry I am almost speechless.
Good luck to you. I hope that it all works out.
Regarding one angry girl's question, here's contact info for those two journalists if someone wants to pitch the story to them.
Robin Erb at robinerb@theblade.com
Roberta de Boer at roberta@theblade.com
Just a note... EC does not work by preventing implantation, but by preventing ovulation. If you've already ovulated, you're screwed (thus the ~80% effectiveness rate). So that nurse who claimed "EC" and "abortion pill" are interchangeable is a complete dumbass.
FORGE ONE!
Since it's gone OTC anyways, I see no harm.
And if you get in trouble for it, you can start a lawsuit that takes down these bastards and exposes them from what they are.
Also, can you publish the docs on the doctors? By docs I mean name, phone number, addres etc.
It would be pretty fun harass...I mean give comment to the doctors.
And the pharmacy...and the corporate HQ of the pharmacy...and the hospital...and the nurse...and the local paper...and elected officials...
Best of luck....if it doesn't work out There is probably someone who can traffic you some.
Why the heck is Plan B being made available if women are treated like crap and have to jump through a million hoops to get it?
I sincerely hope everything turns out for the best & I am so very sorry you had to go through this.
Three years ago, I took Plan B after I realized I had forgotten to take the pill for 2 days. In all the years of being on the pill, it had never happened before and I was scared stupid.
Thank Goodness that Planned Parenthood was open the next morning & was able to give me the pills, because 2 years later, I got pregnant at 41 just a few days after I stopped taking the pill. We were happy & were ready to try then, but it just points to how very much I needed quick access to Plan B to prevent pregnancy 3 years ago.
People who object to Plan B are idiots and show themselves as what they are - jerks who want to control women.
"Hey there missy, don't you know your place? If you didn't want to get pregnant, you shouldn't have had a uterus!"
This is the attitude of the establishment, the Religious Right, the Morality Police, and the idiots in the health care system who denied you access to emergency contraception this past week, BitingBeaver.
I hope it all works out for you. I strongly urge you to send your blog piece out to the media for print publication in newspapers and magazines. This is an outrage.
More links:
http://www.raisinghervoice.org/a...outec/
noec.html
http://www.plannedparenthood.org...ing-ec-
6545.htm
Spread the word. And make sure your story is told to as many people as possible, especially women in your area.
I had to fight with my doctor to have a sterilization procedure at age 28. They ran me through the wringer and had me signing papers as they wheeled me into the operating room. It was demeaning. No woman should feel shame for taking control of her reproductive destiny.
Please, share your story. The people who should be shamed are the doctors, nurses, and hospitals who are forcing women to have needless abortions or, worse, children that they can't care for.
I came over from feministing.
I am so sorry and extrememly angry this happened. Thank you for sharing this.
I think the most alarming part of this whole story is the lack of medical competence exhibited, like boltgirl mentioned with the nurse. I don't want a nurse/doctor who doesn't understand the basic biological differences between contraception/EC/abortion pill doing ANY sort of medical procedure on me. (I mean c'mon, I teach the steps involved in human reproduction in biology classes to college freshman, who GET IT, it ain't rocket science) I wouldn't trust them to take my temp, honestly.
If I lived in your community I would really want to know about this. If you are up to it, you would be doing many women, such as myself, a great service in exposing these practitioner's attitudes and your experience to local media.
I came here through a link on a board, and I am so sorry that you had to go through all this. We're lucky enoung in Canada to have easier access to emergency contraception, but we cannot allow ourselves to forget how newly won and precarious our rights are.
You reminded me to donate to PP again tonight; if more of us add actions to words, maybe some good can come of this.
Just a note... EC does not work by preventing implantation, but by preventing ovulation. If you've already ovulated, you're screwed (thus the ~80% effectiveness rate). So that nurse who claimed "EC" and "abortion pill" are interchangeable is a complete dumbass.
boltgirl | Homepage | 09.20.06 - 1:14 pm | #
I've always understood that to be true. Nevertheless, my pc wouldn't prescribe it to me because it's against her principles. Not a problem, though, as she refered to me Planned Parenthood. I live in the 'burbs, so it was just a quick visit and $45. The worst part for me was after taking them. Like all birth control pills, they made me psycho. I now call them "the crazy pills" and hope I never have to take them again.
BB, I'm so sorry that you had to go through all of that bullshit just to get what is basically birth control pills. It's fucking insane.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About Hephastion...Has anyone visited that moron's blog? He's one woman-hating 'mo, that's for sure.
I am saddened and angered beyond belief at your story. I'm also appalled that another woman denied you the Plan B in the first place. The patriarchy's irrelevant, we'll just repress *ourselves*, thankyouverymuch.
And what's the logic behind thinking that a good punishment for sex outside of marriage is forced childbirth, anyway?
Sheesh, January '07 can't get here fast enough.
getthepill.com is a life-saver and I'm glad that a few women above mentioned it.
And as a few others mentioned, keeping a Plan B pack on hand is a great idea - last time I went to Planned Parenthood for an appointment, I got a scrip and filled it that afternoon.
This is fucked up and quite ridiculous. I see no reason why it should matter whether you are married or not or in long-term relationship.
What are they doing here? Trying to be the morally police?
I hope that your story ends well. This is frightening to say the least.
Good grief BB, I am so sorry you are going through this. It is seriously messed up that no hospital in a 100 mile radius would prescribe EC for you. The medical profession wields so much power over our lives. What a horrid demonstration of the ways in which this power is mated with misogyny and paternalism.
My thoughts are with you, BB. I hope that everything turns out for the best.
As for hephastion… good god. Have you no shame, or for that mater, empathy? I briefly visited your blog and noticed that, like me, you are gay/bisexual. Here’s a clue: the reactionary bigots that take pleasure in making women’s lives hell have a huge overlap with the reactionary bigots that take pleasure in making queer people’s lives hell. In both cases, they are trying to control people’s lives through controlling their bodies and their sexuality. In both cases, they are trying to foist their narrow view of ethics and religion on an entire society. Restricting women’s access to abortion and birth control are two avenues toward doing this. Outlawing gay marriage and criminalizing non-heterosexual sex are two other means. Wake the f*ck up!
BB, I'm curious...you mentioned that you had surgery last year and not much of a cervix left. That seems like something you might tell a dr. as a reason you cannot/should not get pregnant. Did you try that route at all?
About 6 years ago I spent some time in London, and wound up with a broken condom on New Year's Eve. My response was complete and utter terror, but my English guy said, "oh, you can just pop down to the clinic for the morning-after pill." Like it was plain old common sense. The only person I knew in the US who'd gotten it had had to go to the ER, and I had the impression she'd had to imply she'd been "taken advantage of". In London, the hardest part was finding a clinic that was open again after the holiday and getting my rx before the 72 hours. The dr there was an old conservative-seeming guy, but had no issues at all with prescribing it.
I was surprised there seem to be a few posters above who confused plan-b with the abortion pill. Of course, medical professionals who do should just have their licenses/credentials revoked.
Terrible. Terrible. Terrible.
I'm a friend of Lupabitch's.
I'm also experienced with herbalism, becoming certified as a Natural Health Practitioner. I recommend that you look up "emmenogogues" and choose a course of action as Plan C. (Plan B is available at our Community Health Centre free - just ask, there are signs everywhere!)
For example, do you know the song Scarborough Fair? The chorus goes "parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme". These are all emmenogogues. There are many more. Be absolutely safe. Do not take more than is recommended. Do not take anything that says do not take it. Three drops of pennyroyal oil will kill an adult. You don't need an abortificient. You need an emmenogogue.
If you would like to write to me for help making sure that what you are planning to take is safe, please do. I hope you are safe and sound by now, however.
BB, I came here from Feministing and Pandagon and I'm so terribly terribly sorry this has happened to you. What a horrible thing to put you through. I really hope you're not pregnant, and agree with others that if you're up for it, making noise about this in the press is not a bad idea.
Good luck to you!!
------------
kmtberry said:
Just asking here, becasue I am not sure I read this correctly, or understood it correctly: Did the fucktards involved ask if you were married, because if YOUR HUSBAND didn't want the pregnancy, they would have written the script? Or would they have advised you to just accept the Lord's addition to your "quiver"? I think the Godbags are especially freaked out by MARRIED people who don't want/can't afford another child. Or is it truly about males getting the say-so?
I say:
I think you've hit it on the head - it really /is/ about males getting the say-so. I think even if BB had answered that she was married, I don't think she'd have heard, "Oh, that's okay then." I think she would have been subjected to a whole separate series of follow-up questions on the order of, "Does your husband know about this? What does he think? Does he agree EC is what's needed? Is there any chance he could come in with you to get your prescription?"
Call me paranoid if you like and I won't deny it, but I really do think that's where that question would have led to.
Which, if you boil it down? Means that these doctors are basically saying that if there's the slightest, teensiest, most outside chance that a woman has gotten pregnant, the MAN gets to decide whether the woman carries out the pregnancy or not. In fact, I think the questions about rape were less about BB's welfare and more the doctor's seeing if BB's situation was the one instance in which they can see DENYING a man the right to decide whether the woman he's ejaculated into gets pregnant or not.
Gosh, aren't we women sooooo lucky to live in such enlightened times? snort! Filthy fucking bastards.
After spawning two kids, I am going back to school for pharmacy. It is appalling to me that so many pharmacists will not fulfill their job's duty because of "moral" issues. These same pharmacies probably stock condoms, and see no problem with that.
Everytime I hear a story like yours, it reaffirms my committment to see school through. I would be proud to be a pharmacist that women knew they could come to for help.
I hope everything worked out for you after the clusterfuck of trying to get a prescription.
BTW, came here from Pesky Apostraphe
This is sad. And infuriating. I think maybe if you called back your primary physician and told her the same story you posted, she might have begrudged you the Rx. If it were me, I would have also have pressured this woman MD to tell me what doctors (by name) she would refer me to for the Rx if she refused to write it on the second call. If she doesn't make those referrals for urgently needed care and promptly, she can be brought up on charges of denying tx. The State Licensing Board may be filled with assholes, but no doctor wants to go through the hassle of a complaint process. It's a manipulation of the system, an outrageous burden on the patient, but it probably would have worked to extort the Rx.
That's just to solve the immediate problem (which is now beyond solving).
The rest of the world sucks.
May this meathead excuse for a physician be torched in a pyre of burning bibles and his ashes be dumped into into a stopped- up church toliet for convenient flushing.
Hey, I have a similar story:
http://elleabd.blogspot.com/2006...is-
ticking.html
Don't know if anyone else told you, b/c I didn't read all the comments, but my Nurse Practitioner told me after the fact that almost any high dose of BC (taken the standard 12 hours apart) will work. Luckily, I'd tried it on my own--prepare to be viciously ill, though.
Is EC an abortion pill? The short answer is no. For a long answer, see what my favorite biology blogger is pointing out, check this out:
http://scienceblogs.com/
pharyngu...hate_plan_b.php
So sorry. It's pathetic when people force their beliefs on others. I hope everything works out.
UGH! Poor you.
But a comment on Lana's comment, "worst case scenario, do you have craigs list in your area & can you ask any women out there if they can give you a packet of these pills?"
I'd try a lot of other options first, just because with Craig's list, you're taking the pills from a stranger. Somebody could give you fake pills or tamper with them (unless they're in this foil pouches or such) for any number of reasons, from being a sick person to wanting the implantation, etc. to take place to wanting to "teach you a lesson."
Just my $.02.
I'm really impressed you were able to be polite through all of that...unbelievably frightening.
If you do get pregnant, sue all the hospitals in small claims court. Have you consulted a lawyer? Can't they be sued for failure to provide medical care?
As a doctor, I'm sorry that you had to go through all of that. The main question I've asked when rx'ing plan b is 'what contraception will you use next time?'
My other question is, come Jan 1st, will the pharmacies find some other reason not to stock the pills. We now should be aware to check them out before there is an emergency, and make a fuss if they aren't available then.
I am so sorry you went through this and allow me to add, on your behalf...
AGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
But you need a new doctor, first and foremost. Your doc should be being FIRED by you for putting you through this instead of just calling in the damn prescription.
Last time I needed EC, my doc wanted to give me a low dose of the abortion pill (RU486) instead, to be "sure!" LOL! I did not want that. I wound up getting super lucky in that my Planned Parenthood stayed open 15 minutes late on a Friday for me so that I could get what I wanted, Plan B! Irony, I tell you. Either way you need to find a doctor who will meet YOUR needs as a patient and not be imposing his or her morality upon you! You deserve better.
It sounds like more than one person was angling for you to just utter the words "I was raped" so they could give it to you without getting themselves in trouble. Yes, it sucks that the world is so ridiculous right now that you would have to tell a bald-faced lie to get EC, but you would have gotten it nonetheless.
Sadly, your experience illustrates the need for all of us to be pro-active in matters like these... Canadian drug web sites are the best source for non-prescription Plan B. Google and you will find many that are willing to provide it with a few clicks of the mouse. Express shipping is also available, but it's better to lay in a supply beforehand. I am sorry this creepy thing happened to you, but the story is spreading and is doing a great service in alerting others.
A few folks have stated that perhaps I should have lied about being raped to get the EC.
I am not a liar and I would never, ever lie about such a disgusting and horrific crime like rape. The fact is that it stands as an insult to women who have been raped not to mention that if I had lied about rape I could very likely have ended up as one of the few people that people point to to back up their idea that 'women lie about rape'.
No, I deal honestly with everyone around me. I hide very little and honesty is a policy of my own that I take very, very seriously.
It never even occured to me to lie about it. Not once.
I'm embarrassed by my country's priggish puritanical attitude. I'm embarrassed that the men in power make is hard for women to make their own coices.
I apologize, on behalf of all men.
As far as I am concerned, no person who has a penis has the right to say anything about a woman's reproductive choices.
Good luck.
This why smart, intelligent, sane people move out of rural Ohio.
MOVE.
I'm sorry to hear about your problems getting EC. It's amazing how backwards some people are. I'm just glad I'm in Canada. We needed EC and all we had to do was go to our pharmacy and the pharmacist was able to give it to us after doing a short info bit that was about what it did/didn't do.
The solution is definitely OTC.
I fully support people having access to it, but I also support not involving doctors in that decisionmaking process - its not fair to them either.
This happened to me a couple of years ago. In my case, the condom broke on a Sunday night. I called my doctor's office the next morning and was informed that since she was not in that day, I'd have to schedule an appointment on Tuesday. Nevermind that she's in practice with 2 other doctors: that was code for, they won't prescribe for you. And the reason I had to come in? She told me that many pharmacies won't fill Plan B prescriptions (I'm in Georgia, and pharmacists are not required to fill prescriptions if there is a "morality" issue) so she gave me the ghetto version with some BC samples she had in the office. I was thankful that she went out of her way to help me out, but god forbid I had a less understanding doc.
(link to story about GA law)
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/
new...L_0825_COX.html
I just wanted to make a point here after reading all the posts about chauvinism:
These doctors aren't really discriminating against women so much as discriminating against those that don't share their beliefs. If men could have babies, I bet they'd be denied EC by same doctors. Basically you get hosed because you can carry babies, not specifically because you are a woman.
I don't want to make it sound like I approve of this garbage, but I just wanted to make sure people understand it really isn't a chauvinism thing as much as a (bad) morality thing.
Wow....makes me thankful that I wasn't born in a patriarchal, christian fundamentalist society like the USA.
We get the impression over here that in many respects, you are still living in the dark ages.
I sincerely hope that American women will one day unite, and force the issue of women's rights in your country.
Don't let those religious zealots tell you how to live your lives!
Hi, I don't know you but I live in New York. I will go to Student Health Services and get you some damn EC and overnight it to you if you want. Or, if you are past the 72-hour deadline, let me go get you a pack and then mail it to you so that next time this happens, you won't be up the proverbial creek. I have had condoms break, more than once. You would think they would be a little sturdier, you know? Please email me if you want me to get you a pack.
Best,
Arden
Not all people suck, just a large majority of them...
Hang in there. And for pete's sake, don't lie about getting raped. The last thing you need is to be charged with filing a false police report.
Came here from BoingBoing.
I hope everything worked out OK.
You know, I wonder if it's time for us to get organized like the anti-abortionists. They post the names and addresses of doctors that perform abortions. Maybe we need to protest in front of pharmacies, drs offices, etc. that won't prescribe or stock EC and post THEIR names and addresses.
I would think that in 2006 we wouldn't have to deal with this crap. You were being RESPONSIBLE. I love how the moralists want to make sure that no fetus goes unborn, but won't spend the money to clothe, feed, educate, house, and care for them.
My husband just got his tube tied, but prior to that we were in the same situation -- BC was messing up my sex drive, so we were stuck with trusting that @$@^@^ condom. I have 2 beautiful children, but I would go nuts if I had a third.
Oh, and I'm sending my $$$ to Planned Parenthood.
BB.
What a sad and infuriating response you received to such a responsible and empowered action. This is the exact situation I worried about when I saw the little asteriks following the announcement that EC would now be available over the counter.
I am surprised that you haven't named names. I think one of the factors that allows doctors, pharmacists and nurses to take these oppressive actions is their perceived anonymity.
Tell us what hospitals you tried, what pharmacies you called, the names of the doctors and nurses you spoke with. Share the details and the names so others can make better, more informed decisions and so the perps in this crimes can feel a little heat.
With love and support in your choices,
Dave
This is a horrible story and makes me very sad for you, women, and our country.
I think you should name these bastards, every one of them. And, think about a law suit. They deserve all the negative press that can be heaped upon them.
But first, change doctors. Send her this URL so she knows why. And don't forget to name her on the site. Had she done her job, none of this would have happened.
It burns me up that you had to go through all this. And I fear that your community isn't the only one that this could happen in. Thank you for speaking out - your blog entry was picked up by boingboing.net, so many others will now see it and realize the hypocrisy that is going on.
I am so sorry this happened to you, I hope that you have found a good resolution by now. For other women, and for you in the future, a good and helpful site (regarding natural contraception & abortion) is:
http://www.sisterzeus.com/
Blessings,
leavesofjoy
Wow... so many comments. I'm not legal expert, here, but I agree with some of the comments that you should seek the advice of a lawyer. If, under the law, you are allowed to take it, failing to do so might violate access to medical treatment - something hospitals are obligated to do, right? And because every state is different, there could be different rules for administrating this kind of medicine; Ohio's could be very restrictive.
I'm of the understanding that 'criteria' as these doctors have explained it to be should only focus on the age (for health reasons only not this parental notice BS), the health of the person (over/under weight), and allergies to other medicines. It sounds discriminatory for someone to deny a person access to medical treatment on circumstantial factors.
Again, I'm not a lawyer and if Ohio's laws are written properly, you might be able to make a malpractice claim or sue under a violation of the anti-discriminatory laws.
This BLOWS.
I support having an abortion if you are pregnant and mailing it out.
I swear, everyday I'm more and more glad to be safely esconced in Canada.
And I wouldn't be able to lie about it either. You shouldn't have to.
The morning-after pill (or EC, as you call it) is not an 'abortion pill' - it consists of two old-style high progestin birth control pills and a anti-nausea drug (to help with tummy upset that the high-dose pills can sometimes cause). 'Plan B' which is specifically marketed for this purpose may be a single dose pill, I'm not sure.
Nevertheless, apparently various doses of other birth-control pills can also be effective (although I've found nothing about the effectiveness of TriCyclen, as it is a low-dose pill). I don't recommend self-dosing, but in this case it would seem that it's your only choice. I found some info for you here:
http://ec.princeton.edu/question.../
dose.html#dose
This page is from the Princeton University medical services website, and it contains pretty much exactly the same sort of information I've gotten previously from medical professionals (I'm from Canada, where medical professionals treat health complaints and diseases, not what they arbitrarily decide are moral shortcomings of the patient). Good Luck!
I agree, always go to Planned Parenthood. You'll have to sign something the first time you get it from them and after that you just pay the co-pay. I totally understand what you are goiing through-- I am in the same position. I have one child from a long-term relationship, "partnership", (we've been together for almost ten years and have no inclination to get married) and DO NOT want to have another child. When I approach my ob-gyn at the age of 23 and requested a tubal he flat out refused because I "did not meet HIS criteria". Last time I cheched I was PAYING him for his services NOT his opinions and it was my body. He was not the only male ob-gyn that feed me that line. (Coincidental, my partner is the same age as me and at the piont when FOUR different ob-gyns turned me away we looked into a vasectomy and without any hesitation the doctor approved the procedure. I later decided against it because *clears throat* I like...let's just say I'm dirty.) Finally, at almost the age of 30, I decided to seek the services of Planned Parenthood. I am a firm believer that men SHOULD NOT hold any kind of medical position dealing with women's reproductive rights. Yeah, yeah, I know there are men that hold other positions (that's evident at PP) and I know there are women ob-gyns that hold the same anti-EC opinion but for the most part their numbers are small compared with the women that are pro-EC. Turst me I know. BTW, I live in CA NOT some ultra conservitive state.
Wow this story is unbelievable. I don't even have words to express how stupid I think this is. In my country you can simply go to any pharmacy and ask for a morning-after pill...they will just give it to you, with the needed instructions.
The moral of the story is women should lie their asses off "Sure, I was raped. Yes, I'm married, etc."
There is no reason to show subhumans like those the respect of your honesty.
hey lady,
didn't take the time to read all of the comments, but knock back 2 birth control pills right now, and then one more 12 hours later.
that is all that emergency contraception is. Ladies get yourself a stock of birthcontrol pills even if you don't want to take it on a regular basis. It is a lot cheaper and saves a lot of bullshit questions.
I am so sorry for your experience. It shouldn't have happened.
Good luck
This is fucked up - I'm so very sorry you had to deal with this (found this story via Boingboing, I'll be doing my part by linking it around my blogs and friends).
Take care hun and tell as many people as you can (media, newspapers. magazines) about this so they're at least aware.
I would never have imagined, I'm only one state up from you (in PA) and I never had problems getting EC the one time that I needed it.
i cannot believe this. this is fucking criminal. i am stunned at the trial you've had to go through. it's absurd.
Before EC was available, I had a condom break. My doctor prescribed Premarin, a drug used for menopausal or post menopausal women. I had to take twice: once straight away and once a few hours later. I forget the dosage. I went in the day after though. I'm not sure how long after the break this would work. I've also heard that birth control pills can be used in a similar way, but I'm not sure about that. I'm really sorry that a simple accident could have such negative consequences for you. You deserve better.
This is sick and wrong that they can do this to women.
I say screw 'em. We'll start an emergency hotline; call in, ask for the doc, who then FedEx's the EC to the woman calling.
I lived in Chillicothe for two years in the early '80s - can you say, roughly, where in Ohio you are? If you are in south central Ohio, I'm not at all surprised by the patriarchal attitude you found. It was none of anyone's business!!
Good luck, I hope everything turns out OK for you on this.
I'm genuinely sorry that you went through this, and that (as I realized while reading it) public policy in these matters is being driven by the sort of sick, prurient assholes you encountered.
Forgive the kibbitzing, but presumably you have the names of, say, the doc who referred you to the ER, the hospitals that gave you the runaround, possibly some of the Nosy Parkers who "screened" you, and perhaps other particulars (phone records, etc). You may wish to chat with an attorney.
And if you don't want to litigate (understandably; it's a horrible experience even if you win), you might wish to publish the names. (It's a testament to your sweet nature and sense of restraint and that you haven't already.) The malefactors will hear about it, and the fall-out can be fun to watch.
Oh--and if you can, find another doc.
That is un-fucking-believable. This kind of shit should NOT happen. It makes me ashamed to be an American.
Thank God that in Illinois, you could put every fucking one of those fuckityfucks in jail for doing that. (I cannot use enough expletives to describe the DOZENS of people who conspired against you to do this.)
People, write your state legislators and tell them you want an Emergency Contraception law like Illinois'.
Rural America hasn't had any ideological changes in the last 90 years. Here in North Dakota, you not only can't get EC, but there is no place to have an abortion once you really do become pregnant. The closest place is called "The Red River Clinic" (yes, I know--what a name!) and is a state away! This is why we have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates; I know exactly one woman over 20 who hasn't had any children in central ND and two dozen who were giving birth before they were old enough to go into a bar.
The only recourse we have is moving!
If this were me, I would get a lawyer and sue for malpractice for a doctor who refused to prescribe it for you.
I think that would be pretty cut and dried.
This situation cries out for naming and shaming; of the doctors and the hospitals, and the pharmacies involved.
You can and should file complaints with the state medical board against every facility and person who pulled that unprofessional, irresponsible and damaging act on you.
But more importantly, the idiots who pull this crap need to be outed as the Talibanic Troglodytes they are.
Post the names of the doctors, the hospitals and the nurses on your blog. They are the ones who should be ashamed. Do it, we'll call the hospitals corporate parents and ask why they are letting a bunch of religious creeps put their facilities in legally compromising positions; we'll call the Doctors insurance companies and ask why imposing their sexual mores on their patients has an appropriate place in their practice.
They should be the ones who suffer the consequences.
I got here through BoingBoing, so we don't know each other. But I was just shaking throughout the course of reading your entry. It's terrifying and sick, what you went through.
Also, about the lying thing, I agree that it wouldn't help ANYONE if you lied. People in your situation need to be able to get their EC without having to resort to lying. This is a major problem that needs to be fixed.
I also don't quite understand why they wanted you to be married. Aren't they more for unwanted pregnancies within a marriage? I thought it would stand in your favour to be unmarried, based on their "morals".
I'd start calling the administration office of the hospitals you called. Bitch and complain and bitch some more.
Its total bullshit for them to ask you such invasive questions.
I imagine if you said you WERE married, that they'd have wanted consent from your husband - another out for them.
Get with your regular doctor and demand the pill. NO ONE should push their morals down your throat.
AFAIK, you don't have to be raped to get EC.
Its YOUR body and YOUR business.
This makes me so sad and angry. I'm glad you found someone who will prescribe it for you. Hope it works out.
You should so post their info. Let pple exact some "internet justice".
this is SO bizarre...
I live in Toronto, ON [that's Canada!] and had to use the Plan B pill last April or so. I walked around the corner to the pharmacy and asked the lady for it, who handed it directly without comment.
well, except she smiled and said, "do you have medical insurance?"
"unfortunately I don't currently.."
"then that's $21. please read the instructions carefully and if you have any problems, you can come back. thank-you."
really, the behaviour you're describing is amoral and just plain fucking wrong -- what's happening to your health system, for that matter, women's rights?
This situation cries out for naming and shaming; of the doctors and the hospitals, and the pharmacies involved.
You can and should file complaints with the state medical board against every facility and person who pulled that unprofessional, irresponsible and damaging act on you.
But more importantly, the idiots who pull this crap need to be outed as the Talibanic Troglodytes they are.
Post the names of the doctors, the hospitals and the nurses on your blog. They are the ones who should be ashamed. Do it, we'll call the hospitals corporate parents and ask why they are letting a bunch of religious creeps put their facilities in legally compromising positions; we'll call the Doctors insurance companies and ask why imposing their sexual mores on their patients has an appropriate place in their practice.
They should be the ones who suffer the consequences.
Just so everyone does not think that ignorance is limited to the male gender, I feel it necessary to point out that it appears that the physician in this case is a woman.
It is inexcusable that publicly licensed and sanctioned professionals get to cherry pick which drugs they get to dispense. I hope you find some soon; what about the dreaded online pharmacy route? Maybe a good business model?
That having been said I would like to say to the women commenting on this blog, hey anti RU-486 forces are not all male. This is not a sexist thing this is a religious thing, and there are plenty of females who disprove of this; I know I have been yelled at for my views. Ignorant assholes deserved to be chastised, but blanket condemnations by sex trivialize the argument and turn off men who support your position.
fucking fuck fucks.
ay.
i'm sure there's a million witty barbs that came to you after the fact when asked such personal questions and repeatedly being told that some doctor would decide whether you were worthy.
how about 'do you ask a gunshot victim if they own a gun before you decide whether to treat them?'
fuckers.
goddamn it.
you have the wrath of the masses behind you. and thanks for not being afraid to use the 'f(eminist)' word.
karen
I'm in such shock about this (a fact that I'm sure does you absolutely no good).
Maybe we should set up some kind of network of women who can get EC through their doctors and overnight it to women who can't do so.
You have access to my email. Please email me if you'd like me to try to do that so you have some on hand for future situations.
My god, I am so sorry this happened to you.
xxx,b
I am horrified at the way you have been treated. It is your right!
I have a piece of advice for your situation:
Buy pure vitamin C in powder form, and take a few (4,5?) tablespoons of it a day. I have seen this work as EC 2 times before, and it is much less damaging to your body than drinking & smoking.
I wish you all the best
The moral of the story is that it is extermely important to have a close working relationship with your doctor. Once your personal doctor turns you away, you are at the mercy of the system.
So, we should all ask our doctors in advance about what they would do in situations like this! "If I call you on Saturday asking for Emergency Contraception because our condom broke, will you prescribe it right away?" If the answer is "no" then fire them, just as you would any other service provider.
If you are stuck with your doctor because you are in a restrictive medical plan, then consider purchasing your own medical plan. If you are unable to do that, then talk to your local legislators, complain to the employer who is providing your plan, complain to the plan provider, write an opinion article for your local newspaper, and call the local television new station.
Your experience is dreadful, I'm sorry to hear the state of the 'industry' varies so much state to state.
I've had to help an underage couple get some EC, and they ran into zero hangups getting it from Planned Parenthood in CA.
I hope everything works out for the best!
A similar thing happened to me once, and after calling a few places around town (and, like you, feeling increasingly embarrassed) I finally went online, and managed to get a prescription through gethtepill.com.
the morning after pill, EC, as you call it is simply 2 birth control pills from how they made them years ago. The pill used to be super strong and super bad for your body, but in making the pill better over years, they still distribute the original pill as EC, 2 pills to be taken 12 hours apart, as opposed to 24 hours like your normal birth control. I have never heard of your birth control, but i don't think you would need the whole package to abort, i'd simply take 2 or 3 pills of it and then another 2 or 3 12 hours later, i'd recommend 3, you might feel a bit nauseous but it should do the trick
Honey, I feel for you! You may want to check into those 'county' hospitals as the Catholic church is taking over more and more hospitals on the QT. It's not always apparent.
I would also go back to your posts and put in the doctor's names and hospital/pharmacy names in the post....do not protect the not-so-innocent. Make a point of stating that you are doing it so that other women in your area will know. That will certainly get the doctors' and hospital's attention.
And then post where you did find helpful information. Be specific. This may help others.
Goodness, I really feel for you, too. Isn't it crappy that America has criminalized sexuality, and makes women feel bad for trying to be good citizens and take charge of their reproductive capacity? You don't want a fourth kid. Good for you for knowing your own mind and trying to be responsible, and a big middle finger to those who think you're supposed be judged. A few months ago I received a prescription for the birth control injection - I have an infant son with my husband and I'm breastfeeding the baby, and it's the right choice for us right now for a variety of reasons. So I go to the pharmacy at the grocery where I shop and they don't stock it. I think they're OK with contraception - they just don't sell a lot of Depo shots so they don't keep them. They told me to go to CVS next door, and I did. I had the nerve to ask the pharmacist for some information about the shot. After all, a pill you can stop taking, an implant you can have removed, but Depo is three months' worth of BC and if it doesn't agree with you, you just have to let it wear off. And any type of hormonal BC has side effects and I wanted to be an informed consumer. There were two techs and one pharmacist there - no customers - and all three of them acted like I'd asked for an illegal abortion and some baby seals to club on the way home. I got the script filled and had it injected, and then for three months thought about how shabbily I'd been treated. Yesterday I had my script transferred to Target, where they were happy to talk to me and didn't act like it was a crime to take charge of my reproductive health.
They're right - you should fire your doctor and find a pharmacy or other source for meds that makes you feel comfortable. They're in this for profit, presumably, so shop where your dollars count. I know I do - I'm having all my stuff transferred to Target (and no, I don't work for them or know anyone who does.)
First off, Good Luck to you, BB. Speaking as myself, a married man and soon-to-be father, I'm horrified at the gauntlet you got run through. Maybe the Planned Parenthood clinics there have some information on hand on what your legal recourse may be, regarding what I, at least, consider to be medical malpractice at least.
I'm no lawyer, but I'm trolling Ohio legislation to see what comes up. So far, I've found one introduced bill that provides for fines against hospitals that fail to provide EC or factual and complete EC information to sexual assault victims. The law appears specifically crafted to apply only to sexual assault victims, which is a shame because it has some good verbiage in it. H.B.587
This Site has a "scorecard" for availability of contraceptives and emergency contraception in Ohio. The above law is only proposed, thus Ohio law is neutral with respect to whether or not doctors/pharmacists can/must dispense EC when requested. At least Ohio doesn't have a refusal clause that allows pharmacists to refuse to fill a valid prescription. Of course, in your case, not being able to get a prescription in the first place was the problem...
That's all I've found. My opinion is that the big problem is, absent a law to the contrary, no doctor or pharmacist can be required to provide care that is not "medically necessary", and EC hasn't been defined as "medically necessary" except in cases of sexual assault, and there only due to individual hospital policies which, from your experience, appear totally discretionary...
I did find this post which has a well-written take on "pharmacists' right of refusal", though it is from 2004. The gist is that a prescription is a legal document in Ohio and once you have it no pharmacist can keep it without filling it, they must allow you the choice to find another pharmacist who will fill it.
Best of luck to you, hope you and those you know can help push back against those who wish to push their morality over on you. You "read" (I would write sound, but this is text, after all...) like a well-adjusted person who knows what they're about. As "Hard Harry" from the 80's movie "Pump Up The Volume" says, "You're having a perfectly rational response to a f*cked up situation". You're in the right, don't let anyone get you down. Hope your man/family/friends are supportive.
-cajun
(another boingboing reader here)
What complete and total utter bullshit you had to go through. I hope everything works out okay.
Pharmacies should fill prescriptions that doctors write, period. If a pharmacist wants to let his/her personal beliefs interfere with that, they need to find another career.
Over here in Mexico you go to the pharmacy, you ask for the pill, they give it to you, you buy it. No prescription, no questions.
Question I have is, do you live in a small town? I used to live in a smaller town and when I had an abortion and had gone back for testing in my "small town clinic" the fucking receptionist kept prying into the situation. "What kind of doctor was he?" "ummm..." I whispered "I don't know, he gave me an abortion that's all I know." "yes," she said tartly, "but what KIND of doctor?!" Seems like if you live in a small town, doctors and nurses don't like anything that's not overly religious and rightwinged. I was 15 and they made me feel like a dirty whore! *shakes head* At that point it wouldn't have mattered if I was raped or not, I was in truth ...evil. I can completely sympathize with you.
Under most circumstances, I abhor putting the names and home phone numbers of people on the web under circumstances that could cause people to call them. Here, I think you should do it. Let a few thousand people call them and tell them what a bunch of assholes they are.
That's unbelievable... I was stunned, too, at least, until I read "I live in rural Ohio".
Still, complete b.s.
All of the doctors and hospitals that wanted to know if you're married... report every single one of them to your state's anti-discrimination office. They're discriminating against you on the basis of your marital status, which I believe is illegal in all 50 states as well as federally.
If the state won't do anything about it, you should consider suing each of them privately. Talk to a lawyer about how to gather evidence to prove your case. With their behavior being so blatant, you can undoubtedly collect proof pretty easily. (For example, you could make the calls on a speakerphone, with 3 witnesses who will swear out statements that they heard the discrimination occur.)
Also you should call some newspapers (including all of your local papers, the New York Times, Boston Globe, and Washington Post) and see if you can pitch the story to a reporter. Give them a list of all the doctors and hospitals that discriminated against you too.
Attention everyone who lives somewhere that may make it difficult to find EC if they need it. You can order it OTC from Canada. This may not work if you wait until you need it as shipping sometimes takes several days, but you can order a dose to keep on hand. I have bought a number of prescriptions from canadapharmacy.com and have been happy with the service. They have Plan B for $39 plus shipping and require only a MEDICAL profile. We should all take a lesson from this terrible story and protect ourselves. It is a shame that we need to do this!
Remember this story in the voting booth.
The only way to beat these bastards is to change the law. And the only way to change the law is to put people in office who care more about women's rights than money from conservative sources.
If you are registered, VOTE. If not, REGISTER, and then VOTE.
Your story made me very sad. My sister had some sort of EC when a condom broke in high school, no problems, and that was over 10 years ago. I guess it really depends on where you live. I hope things start getting better for you.
I certianly can sympathize with you, BB, in the sense that my wife and I recently experienced an unplanned pregnancy. I know the feelings that are involved.
That being said, there seems to be quite a bit of moral outrage here, and a very well-agreed upon definition of what was right and wrong in this situation. The question I see asked over and over again is: How dare those (right-wing, bible-thumping, Neanderthal, mouth-breathing, and other overused pejoratives for American conservatives) doctors force their morals on you?
In the same way that you find it abhorrent that a doctor could decline to give you the medication you wanted based on her morals, perhaps the doctor would be outraged if she were required by law to be complicit in something she found to be morally objectionable. You might say that nobody made her be a doctor. Prescribing EC is part of being a doctor, and she choose another career if she doesn't like it. Which ends up sounding just as bad as telling a woman she shouldn't have sex if she doesn't want babies: "You can't live your life the way you want because of someone else's morals." Please consider the idea that not everyone on the other side of this issue is evil. Maybe, just like you, some of them simply have morals that they want to live by.
It seems the get 'shut up and do it button' is tied to rape. Why not just claim rape. It may be silly but at least you get a script when you need it or want it. Whats going to happen? A cop will show up, ask you about the rape tell him you dont remember case close. Worse case is they pull in your partner for the 'crime' then you just testify in his defense. Then he sues the county for misconduct as you have all along said it wasn't him and now he (you) get free money. As for this marraige thing I dont really get it? These nuts feel that married women can have 'abortion pills' (in their eyes) but unmarried can't? Doesn't holding back PlanB mean the next step is a real abortion, if required? A note on reality, this story seems a little contrived for the worst case scnario. While possible it still feels unlikly.
AC,
You think it feels unlikely to you? Heh, you should have seen me as it was happening! The entire house was filled with cries of "What the hell is going on?" and "This can't be happening to me!"
So no, I assure you that the story is absolutely accurate. This site is a rather small blog in the whole scheme of things and the post was simply another rant. I certainly never expected that the story would get around so quickly.
In any case there are also plenty of stories out there of women being denied not only EC, but also plain old birth control pills.
BB,
I thought that I would, if nothing else, send you a short note. I don't usually comment on stuff, I just take it in and ponder. But your story made me want to communicate with you, and perhaps the readers and commenters. Let me first say that I agree with almost everybody here about the fact that you were treated unfairly, to put it nicely. What you have described is very unnecessary, and, I think, very wrong. You should not have had to go through what you did.
Unfortunately, my empathy is not the reason I decided to comment. I wanted to thank you for blogging about this. I am, for the most part, a "Conservative Christian." I am also a male. I have come to realize in the past few years that the political pinings of the Christian Right Wing movement are not only completely off base when it comes to actually practicing Christianity, but that it is also pitiful. You, your story, and a link submitted by one of your commenters has helped me understand exactly what EC is - not the abortion pill, or anything like it. I had no real understanding of what it was before, only that it had been related to the abortion pill because a woman could take it after intercourse.
Well, I could keep writing about this whole issue, but I just don't have time now. Again, thank you for writing about this. I can't believe there has been so much negative press about EC. It seems to be the perfect solution, and it should satisfy everybody.
I hope everything turns out well for you,
Jeff
You have been Farked.
visit Fark.com at about 5:05 PM EST
Tina,
Forgive my stupidity, but what, exactly is a fark? I'm looking at the page but what does it mean to be farked? *confused*
Thanks
i am sad. this is so america nowadays.
Not that I necessarily agree with them, BB, but would you be as outraged if one doctor/pharm had simply told you he/she/it had a moral objection to birth control (in whatever form) and wouldn't prescribe it to you?
I agree that once you've made the decision to offer birth control, in whatever form, that you should then offer it without bias to whomever seeks it. Would you have a problem though with someone who just simply disagrees with the concept as a whole?
...though looking at that statement it seems like an invitation to debate over whether birth control is moral, immoral, a choice, a child, or whatever. It's not. I'm just asking if you would outraged by that choice or would respect that they'd taken a consistent stand?
Being Farked means someone submitted your blog to Fark.com
It is a website that posts articles from the internets.
Expect a spike in your traffic, and go to Fark if you want to see people's reactions and opinions on the subject.
Being Farked is a good thing.
ohhhhhhh yeah
""You can't live your life the way you want because of someone else's morals." Please consider the idea that not everyone on the other side of this issue is evil. Maybe, just like you, some of them simply have morals that they want to live by."
I'm sorry, but this explanation just doesn't cut it. The law giving everyone access to EC does not force anyone to use it. The uncooperative doctor's religious beliefs apply only to themselves. The law applies to everyone. And in the USA the law is supposed to be separate from religion.
In this country no one has the right to legislate their religious beliefs. This country was created to escape exactly that idea -- a state instituted church. You need only look to the Middle East to see what happens when a religion takes precendence over the law.
Drift,
Yes, I would have been just as offended if they had said that they wouldn't prescribe it to me because of their morality.
The fact of the matter is that EC has been approved by the government for over the counter sales. This is a legal medication. Would YOU be pissed if you were kept from accessing TUMS because some asshat thought it was immoral of you to eat pork?
Better yet, how about if anti-depressent medication was refused to you if Tom Cruise or someone like him was a doctor? What if hospitals and doctors all around you decided that you didn't have a right to anti-depressents because they believed that it was morally wrong of you to require them in the first place?
Would you be offended?
Quite frankly I think it's a total crock.
What an awful experience. I hope everything turns out well, despite all the suffering you've had to go through on this.
One more piece of advice: Going to the press on this might very well e a good idea. Where in Ohio do you live? I'm a journalist and I might be able to give you some local contacts. This seems like an especially good story if the paper is looking at doing a broader story on access to emergency contraception in the state or region. I keep wondering if you're near Athens, which is where I went to school. The nearest hospital there is O'Bleness Memorial, and I could rant for days about what fuckwits many of the staff there are. Anyway. If you want more info/advice about contacting thepress, e-mail me privately.
Good luck.
Sorry this has been so traumatic for you.
A quick search on Google shows a few pharmacies are willing to ship Plan B, including on an emergency basis, but GAWD do they gouge for it. Who even knows if they're valid, or if they just steal your credit card number.
When Plan B is finally OTC, will that mean someone can set up a website and sell it to you over the Internet with FedEx shipping? Sounds like someone could stand to make a lot of business that way.
I think I'm too late for timely advice, but this is what I would have advised:
1) Call your doctor back and demand a prescription. I don't care what hour it is or how tired and cranky she is, you are her patient and she has an obligation to you.
2) After you get the drift of what questions the bluenoses will be asking, start lying. "Were you raped?" "Why, yes, I was." "Are you married?" "Yes, I am". If they demand lies, give them lies.
3) Once your medical needs are met, you can invest whatever time and energy you feel you can spare to chastising these practitioners of bad medicine.
Best of luck.
Whenever I get a new PCP, I think I'm going to ask him/her if they would give EC/Plan B in your situation. If they say no, or mention some sort of ridiculous moral litmus test like the one you described, I will refuse to do business with them. Sorry, buddy. No money for you. I don't want some closed-minded, reactionary artifact from the 50's having anything to do with my health care. May as well mention leeches and 'bleeding.'
Suffice it to say, I'm apalled at the treatment you were given. I live in Boston, and my better half had no problems getting Plan B from Planned Parenthood...then again, it's the big city.
There just aren't enough swear words to sum up how I feel about the state of things in this country. I too am going to send more money to Planned Parenthood today. Thanks for sharing this and I REALLY hope everything works out ok...keep us updated.
I believe you can take something like 4x the regular dose of a birth control pill and it will have the same effect as EC. There is info on the Planned Parenthood site somewhere, I'm not sure where. Take it as quickly as you can.
Offended? Honestly no.
After Michael Moore protested at Kmart with one of the victims of the Columbine massacre, the store decided to stop selling handgun ammunition. It was a choice based (at least so the company said) on a desire to help stem gun violence. Handgun ammo is legal. Kmart still sells rifle and rifle ammo. They just made a moral stand on one kind of product.
I can't fault someone for taking a moral stand and refusing to sell a given product. Heck, I can't even necessarily fault a company for making a financial decision not to sell a product that is otherwise in its line of business. If there's a rural pharmacy in a very conservative area, I can see how it might decide to not stock EC because of its perception as an "abortion pill" for fear of losing business.
There is definitely a discussion to be had over whether said pharmacy has a moral obligation to provide EC, or whether it's more humane than the alternative. I just can't fault someone for taking a moral stand, so long as they're not trying to enforce it on others. Before you counter that with "it's enforcing a moral code I disagree with on me" I would counter that the pharmacy/doctor is not preventing you from selling/prescribing EC - just that they won't.
And lastly, this is not an indictment of EC. I have no problems with birth control. This is simply a discussion of relative morality.
USE OF BIRTH CONTROL PILL AS EC
From an episode of Loveline I have archived, Dr. Drew Pinsky said that Ortho Tricyclen can be used, maybe the
one you have has similar chemicals... Dr Drew: "look for the pills that have either between
0.5-0.75mg of levonogestrol which you take now and again 12 hours later or
2mg of norethindrone that you take now and again 12 hours later, or
100mg or ethanol estradiol,"
I know this isn't what you have but maybe you could get a scrip for it. Or you could call the show tonight and ask them... 1-800-LOVE-191 I think it airs 10pm-12 on the east coast. I can't get it live where I live.
Best of luck!
Drift,
So, the only people that I can get this prescription from refuse to give it to me on moral grounds but they're not enforcing their morality on me?
My husband's a physician and so I have a teeny bit of insight from the receiving end of patient calls. The doc, ER, etc. are all denying you medical care based on personal belief, not on your medical needs. Find a lawyer. One will take this pro bono I guarantee. Sue the asses off of them.
Lodge a complaint w/ the state medical board (by law, they must investigate and the mark stays on their licensure records forever) against each licensed health care professional who denied you medical treatment. It costs you nothing to write a letter of complaint and ask for an investigation into your complaint.
There's no medical reason for you to have been denied that medication. Were it any other medication, you would have gotten it. Instead you were medically and sexually harassed. Good luck; there are a lot of people behind you to support you.
Drift,
You just made my head explode.
If the pharmacist refuses to fill a prescribed drug, using the reasoning of "moral conflict", they are emposing their morality on the consumer.
Fill the damn prescription and leave your morals out of it.
Asking personal questions, and badgering a woman for their "criteria" is not only rude, but intrusive.
Do they ask old men a bunch of personal questions before filling Viagra?
"Are you married"?
"Are you going to rape someone?"
"When was the last time Captain Winky stood at attention?"
If their were as many of these questions imposed upon men for their prescriptions, you would be hearing about it.
It is not only sexist, but degrading aswell.
If a Pharmacy receives a prescription, it should fill it. Period.
Eden makes some good points. Can a health care professional *legally* ask you as to your marriage status before prescribing a medication in your state?
if this ever happens to you again, go to planned parenthood. they acknowledge that EC is *legal* and will actually give it to you.
So because it affects you I have no right to follow what I believe?
I believe they're not enforcing their morality on you because a) they're not preventing you from buying it (note THEY won't sell it to you, but they're not actively seeking to bar you from EVER buying it), b) they're not preventing others from selling it to you, and c) they're not preventing you from setting up a competing organization to sell to others.
Sorry to arrive so late but I just discovered you through Thordora at Spin Me I Pulsate.
I've linked to this post at
I recall hearing, as a young man, the terrible stories about deaths in back-alley abortions. Reason has given us the means to avoid such horrors. We're born with our sexuality: that doesn't mean we're condemned to live with the consequences unless we subscribe to a particular belief.
This is an unacceptable situation. We need to get engaged and work hard to reverse the forces that are trying to drag us back into an era where a few who think themselves "elect" rule the lives of the many. That, as I understand it, was the basis our country was founded on.
They ARE preventing you from buying it if there is not a pharmacy in 100 square miles that will fill it.
Leave your morals at home, fill the prescription, wash, rinse, repeat.
By "choosing to take a moral stand", they are denying health care to individuals that have no other choice.
Therefore, they are imposing their moral beliefs on consumers.
Sorry for double dipping here. I hadn't had time to read the comments and missed your update. Hope you were successful.
As for your troll, I'm glad you let the comment stand so we all tell him how utterly stupid he is.
Best wishes,
Ann
After reading this post, and having read a number of your other posts (including the "rules" one - excellent idea BTW), I have a few responses. Not surprisingly, there are probably a bunch of things we will disagree on (holy crap, two people who don't share the exact same views on everything), but I'm hoping these differences will contribute to the interesting discussion, not just piss people off.
1) If a doctor didn't want to prescribe EC to you without an interview, I don't have a problem with that. I don't understand why your marital status or sex-life should have anything to do with that interview, however. "Drift" supports people making a moral stand, but I'm not sure I can agree with that. It would make more sense to me if they never prescribed EC. This is a huge reason why this should be over-the-counter.
2) Here's where I'm sure we will disagree: abortion. For argument's sake: throw out situations involving rape, health risks to the mother, birth defects. In other situations: two people choose to have sex, pregnancy may be a result of that. Should the fetus have rights? No? Well, there's where we disagree. Yes? How do those rights interact with the rights of the mother? From my point of view, the fetus has the right not to be terminated unless not terminating would harm the mother.
3) Have you considered using fertility awareness with standard birth control? Just a thought, but it could make things a little less stressful, since you don't have to worry about condoms at all for a decent chunk of the time.
this has nothing to do with abortion
Tina, WHY must I leave my morals at home? Are you contending that the right to healthcare outweighs whatever moral stand I might have about a particular product? If that's the case, and I feel strongly enough about a product, what if I close/move my business and leave the area without healthcare entirely? Isn't that more immoral than just following what I believe?
I guess what I'm asking is "why must I not follow what I believe?"
This stuff makes my head explode, and I can't stand by and let it happen. I don't know if the getpills.com thing works, but I hope it does. That should be good until the end of the year.
We're still going to have a problem once EC goes over the counter though. As many commenters have pointed out, there will be plenty of schmuck-run pharmacies that won't stock the pills, or will shame people out of buying them. Not to mention people who are too embarrassed to go in and buy the pills in person.
So I'm building a site where volunteers can register and say "I have a few spare boxes of EC" then when someone needs them, and can't get them, they can use the site and a voluteer will be chosen (probalby at random) to overnight the pills. I don't have all the details, but this needs to be done.
If anyone here wants to volunteer in any way, or have ideas about how this thing could work, email me: john@theymightbe.com. I've set up an information page here: http://contributory.org/node/5 , there isn't anything there now, but as soon as I have more info I'll post it. I'll keep an eye here as well for suggestions and ideas for how this thing should operate
It's. Apalling.
I read once that OrthoNovum 7/7/7 doesn't work for EC because it doesn't have the right *kind* of hormones, but the website where I found that wasn't very reliably cited, so if Dr. Drew said it's viable (as the poster above noted), I'd go with that.
Also, since the egg takes about a week to implant anyway, hold off the drinking and smoking until it's gotten a chance to have an effect ; )
Have you ever tried charting your cycle? It's helped me *ton* to know whether I'm near ovulation or not, and so to know whether I need to worry about broken condoms or not. The book is called Taking Charge of Your Fertility, by Toni Weschler. This book changed my life, and I hate when people say that, so I must be damn serious about it if I'm repeating it!
Good Luck!
.
Drift - I believe they're not enforcing their morality on you because a) they're not preventing you from buying it (note THEY won't sell it to you, but they're not actively seeking to bar you from EVER buying it), b) they're not preventing others from selling it to you, and c) they're not preventing you from setting up a competing organization to sell to others.
That's bullshit. (a) She went to 'others' and got the same damned runaround; it's not like you can buy it at the local five and dime. (b) True, but inconsequential if 'others' won't sell either. (c) We have laws against dispensing drugs without a licence; Joe Blow can't decide he wants to set up an EC dispersal system. (d) It would be useless, anyway, because this was an EMERGENCY situation, you dolt; not something that she could provide for herself in six months or so.
Let's say the gas station owners in town have decided that big, gas-guzzling cars are bad for the environment, and they have moral objections to adding to pollution; therefore, they refuse to sell gas to owners of said cars. Whichever station the owner goes to, he cannot get gas. He can't go to the next town to get gas, because he's already nudging 'empty' on the gauge. He can't afford to buy his own station and sell to big gas-guzzling cars himself. But, dammit, he NEEDS gas to get to work in the morning, to pay his bills and support his family. What the hell is he supposed to do?
This is an imperfect analogy, because pollution does affect the rest of us, as birth control does not. But it is not MY place to try to enforce lesser polluting vehicles; that is up to the government. If it is legal to obtain gas or EC, then it is not the seller's fucking business to withhold the goods on moral grounds. That IS directly imposing your morals on somebody else, and our country was founded on the principal that WE - DON'T - DO - THAT. Separation of church and state, remember?
.
It's revolting ! Here in France, you just go and buy them without any prescription. My girlfriend has already avoid being pregnant by being able to take freely and quicky an EC pill after a condom incident.
because there is a separation of church and state, and pharmacies and hospitals rely on federal funding to maintain operational status
That is all
I am done
Good luck to you BB
Ah, here's a website that does tell you which pills can be used as EC-- pass it on!
http://ec.princeton.edu/question...tions/
dose.html
I am ob/gyn and a provider of EC. A friend sent me your post and I was dismayed for you. I am glad to see you got some help. I wanted to tell you about the national hotline -- which is still up and running, 24/7 -- to help people in your situation. My hope is that if the number is posted here, more people will see it.
1-888-668-2528
(1-888-Not-2Late)
The link is for some good info on EC from the ob/gyns in Canada.
Thanks.
Also, I thought I'd mention that through the course of all this I was given a link about the state of Ohio's hospitals.
Only two hospitals in the entire state will give a woman EC no matter her circumstances. And 24% of them won't even give it out to a woman who has been raped.
For anyone who's interested here's the link
Ohio EC
I can NOT believe the hassle you went through. You were being responsible for your actions. No wonder so many people are on welfare with kids if THIS is the hassle you get if there is an OOPS moment!!!!!
This is fucking bullshit. That anyone would have to go through this makes me fucking furious. Patriarchal, fundamentalist, oppressive bullshit. Good luck, ma'am.
So because it affects you I have no right to follow what I believe? - drift
It's two seperate things, drift. Your personal morals are great for your life; live by them all you want. Your job, however, is not your personal life and has nothing to do with your morals.
If you are a doctor/pharmacist/pharmacy tech/nurse/whatever, whether you agree with EC or BC or any other form of keeping a man and woman from reproducing or not, that doesn't matter. Your job is to take care of the patient/customer and that's all. Think all the snide comments you want, walk slowly when filling the 'script, but do your job and go on.
Tina - most hospitals, yes. Still there are parochial hospitals (Seton here in Austin comes to mind) that don't take federal money and do refuse to provide birth control. Pharmacies, eh, not so much. Pharmacies attached to hospitals, yes, but the CVS at the corner isn't propped up by the government - it's propped up by sales.
StarWatcher - fair enough, but does that mean I can't try to change the world? I mean, if I think that birth control in general is bad, can't I then run my business in accordance with that belief? Can I only if others exist who will sell birth control? Do the health benefits of birth control outweigh my right to run my business how I choose? What if by selling birth control I alienate my predominantly Catholic (or whatever) customer base and have to close? Am I justified then in not selling birth control?
I guess at the end of the day this is an argument of personal freedom. BB wants the freedom to run her reproductive life as she chooses. I want the ability, as a business owner, to run my business as I choose. The only difference is that her freedom to choose seems to be somewhat dependent on my choices. Does her freedom outweigh mine somehow? I tend to believe they're both equal, and that the market will equalize the situation. If enough people in her area clamor for EC, then someone will fill the market need.
Past that I find it hard to fault someone for following their beliefs. There may well be a conflict between those beliefs and the laws of the stat of Ohio, or the ethical guidelines for physicians; in that case the relevant authorities need to be contacted and the appropriate censure issued. I don't see how that changes the central moral question though...
Unfortunately, you're not alone in the bad experience. And it doesn't just happen in Ohio: A woman here in the Washington, DC, area had the same thing happen -- and ended up needing an abortion. She wrote about it for the Washington Post. That article is probably no longer available, but I blogged about it here: http://
hopeandpolitics.blogspot....traceptive.html
Your job, however, is not your personal life and has nothing to do with your morals. - Kenneth
Isn't that rather akin to the Nuremburg defence (and yes, thank you everyone, Godwin's Law has now been fulfilled). As a Catholic if you think that birth control is just an earlier form of abortion (and also that abortion is murder), and as a pharmacist, are you obligated to commit what you believe is murder because you're asked to by your employer? Are you obligated to commit murder if you're a mailroom clerk and your manager asks you to?
I am NOT saying that Abortion = Murder. Far from it. I'm asking why an individual who takes a moral stand is villified for it (presuming, of course, consistency is maintained and the individual isn't dispensing ANY BC).
This excerpt is copied from a Farker named Sum Dum Gai.
I copied it, for it states my feelings on this situation.
I doubt BB would go to a perochial hospital for this prescription....come on, get real Drift.
Sum Dum Gai states:
"I don't understand what's so hard about saying "if this job conflicts with your personal morality, then you need to choose one or the other".
I mean, I'm all for being accomodating when reasonable, but if the person is refusing to do the job, they shouldn't have the job.
What if you went into a bar and the bartender said he was a Baptist and refused to serve alcoholic beverages? Or the person working at the grocer was a vegan and refused to sell you meat?
Part of having morals is that sometimes, your morals will be incompatible with certain occupations. In such a case you need to choose one or the other -- it's not acceptable to try to have your cake and eat it too, by accepting the job, taking the paycheck, and then refusing to do the work you agreed to do. If you can't do your job, then seek a different employment."
Thanks Sum Dum Gai, for stating my feelings on this situation.
In my state (HI), EC really is OTC. You go to the pharmacy, fill out a form, are consulted--not screened-- by the pharmacist, wait for the prescription to be filled, then pay out of pocket for EC and the consult.
Alright Drift, you've had your fun and you appear to be attempting to derail the thread since the topic you're steering this towards only deals a glancing blow to what the post was about.
In the spirit of trying not to get pissed off I'm putting an end to this right now.
To be honest you've made your argument and I (and others) has made theirs/ours. It's becoming clear to me that you're arguing for the sake of it at this point.
So, just so you know I will not be approving anymore comments from you on this particular topic. If you need clarification then follow the link at the top for my "Mission Statement". Hopefully that may clear up any questions you have.
Thanks,
BB
Your story scares the hell out of me. I went to school in rural Ohio, but lucky for me it was a school that provided super-cheap condoms, birth control, and morning-after pills. Now, I've graduated, and no longer have access. I'm using the pill (luckily it doesn't seem to give me as much trouble as it does some women) and condoms, but both have a failure rate. Because of your story, I'm putting in the effort NOW to find a doc and a pharmacy that will give me what I need when and if I need it.
A person's marriage status doesn't have shit to do with their legal right to Plan B. And as to the 'moral objections': Plan B prevents ovulation. It avoids the sanctity of life question altogether. There is no life involved! No baby! No zygote! The sperm and the egg never meet, which is the best possible option when a condom breaks. Which is why you should be able to get the damn pills easily, so you don't have to have an abortion later! Grrrrrrrrr.
You can't be the only woman in the area who has had this happen. If you want to bring legal action (which I think is a great idea) I'd try to find these other women and find one or two who are willing to duke it out in court with you. It could only help.
Drift --
"The only difference is that her freedom to choose seems to be somewhat dependent on my choices. Does her freedom outweigh mine somehow?"
Complete freedom of choices is not present in this situation. You can't just say "Im going to be a pharmacist" and away you go. This is a regulated and controlled profession with special training. Without showing that training, you will not be permitted to sell the drugs. The government (at some level) is giving you special permission to do things that ordinary people can't do.
"I tend to believe they're both equal, and that the market will equalize the situation."
The government carefully controls and regulates the drug market, both prescription and OTC. As a pharmacist, you are effectively acting as an extension of the goverment. As such - as part of the the government - you do not get complete freedom to undertake goverment actions based on your personal beliefs.
If anyone can go buy a case of morning after contraception pills and sell them in the corner store, then that would be a lot closer to a free market. But we don't have a free market for this, so you can't depend on it to equalize the situation.
Your blog is now featured on Fark.com
It has hit the main page.....prepare yourself BB
Next time, Drive around the lake to Canada and pick it up at one of many 24 hour drug stores.
Tell customs why you're entering Canada and they'll wave you right through.
Please don't spam me~
Anyhoo, that is just plan outlandish. I would try talking to a lawyer about suing your OBGYN-I needed one this once and called my Doc and he had me going to Walgreens the next hour.
Where are you anyway?
And Ohio continues to be a beacon of greatness in this nation of ours.
Get firebombed, Ohio.
Absolutely Pathetic is all I have to say of those Doctors. There is so much political pressure and propaganda in the US with regards to EC and abortion. Many places even come across like they're there to help you and in reality have a pro-life agenda (ie. planned parenthood)
I hope you everything works out for you. Should you need an abortion I would look at Canada...VERY CHEAP compared to the states and much more accessable...www.bloorwestwomensclinic.com
I hope this all works out for you
.
Drift -- but does that mean I can't try to change the world?
As I said above -- by trying to change the law. However, denying what is legal to an individual person is not 'changing the world', it is foisting your morality on an individual who may not have another recourse to those goods / services.
I mean, if I think that birth control in general is bad, can't I then run my business in accordance with that belief?
I think Tina and Sum Dum Gai said it best -- if your morality conflicts with your job, one or the other has to give way. No other service is allowed to say, "I consider those goods / services immoral; therefore I won't dispense them, even though you have a legal right to them."
Can I only if others exist who will sell birth control?
You might make a case for that -- IF you declare your stance upfront, in large signs, so that people who disagree with your stance can go elsewhere. However, if you are the only pharmacy within 50 miles, it would be immoral not to provide the services that people need.
Do the health benefits of birth control outweigh my right to run my business how I choose? What if by selling birth control I alienate my predominantly Catholic (or whatever) customer base and have to close? Am I justified then in not selling birth control?
I think that's quibbling. Again, if your morals conflict with your job, either tamp down the morals, or get another job. If your Catholic customer base chooses to go elsewhere, that is their decision, which you cannot control. Their numbers will probably be offset by those who realize that they need your services, no matter what you provide for other people.
.
This is a situation that I totally feel for you. I'm a Republican myself, and against EC and abortion in belief, but I strongly believe that each individual should be able to decided whether or not that's something in which they want to participate. In short, I'm for personal freedoms.
This situation is exactly what's wrong with some healthcare professionals. These doctors weren't acting in a moral way in the sense that they were denying a patient healthcare that was both legal, requested and, in the situation, necessary. That, more than anything else, is what frustrates me.
While I feel for you in not being able to succeed in your attempt to get EC in this situation, I'm still not 100% sure how badly I feel for you. You say that you stopped taking low-dose birth control two months ago because it was "fucking [you] up," but I think I'd have to know exactly how before I felt too bad for you.
Afterall, relying on condoms as you did for contraception, you knew that they presented certain risks, as do all types of contraception, and by relying solely on the condoms you accepted those risks. You knew that there was a risk that they could break, and that because of that you could become pregnant.
Wouldn't it then be better to rely on a male form of contraception like a vasectomy if you already had three kids, didn't want anymore and were in a managomous relationship? It sounds like this would have been a perfect fix in your situation, especially since it's reversible if you decided that you did want that fourth kid down the road and has a very high rate of success.
I'm all for personal freedoms, but I'm for personal responsibility as well.
That's why you have people all over the country read this from you. If they wont provide you with Plan B-The west coast readers can also send it to you via mail.
Let me know if you could still use it. I hear it can be used up to a little over a week later.
Actually Doug, it really is none of your business.
I do not have to explain (defend?) myself against anyone's questions or beliefs. However, I have answered your questions elsewhere on this blog so just this once I will do it in a comment.
I cannot take even low dosage birth control because I wind up with a menstrual period that doesn't go away. The bleeding will oftentimes increase as the amount of time increases from the time the symtoms started. I am also anemic which means that I become severely anemic when my body refuses to stop bleeding.
As for my boyfriend, he has no health insurance. He has a health savings plan where a certain amount of money goes into his fund. The company does not provide health insurance and he must pay for all of it.
There is not enough money in there to have the surgery done.
But to be perfectly honest with you I don't feel that I should have to 'prove' that I am a worthy candidate for understanding. The point is that no matter WHAT my situation is I am legally entitled to EC no matter what anyone thinks of my behavior.
If I were you, I would take action against these hospitals, nurses, and staff. In the future when you are presented situations like this, it is in your best interest to take down all names of the people that you've spoken to and the times if possbile. This way you can hold them accountable. Once this is done, you can take it to the Medical board of review for them to look into the matter.
Moving onto your situation, i'm sorry about it and hopefully a pregnancy didn't occur. There is one option since you don't want to have any more children - this will 'burn' some of your lining from the cervix, however since you've had children it won't be a high impact. You can take a double dosage of birth control (any kind will work: patches, pills), drink more than normal (just be careful), continue to smoke, and rough sex would work also. If you do become pregnant - the fetus (whatever is clumped up together) will come out of you. You will begin by spotting a bit and from there it will be out.
This may not be what you want to hear, however there is this alternative.
Good luck
Doug, it sounds like you don't understand how EC really works. Could you please explain how you think it works? People who really understand how it works should be no more opposed to it than, say, Insulin. People opposed to EC have been fed propaganda without comprehending the science.
I'm sick that this happened to you. I hate that people made you feel ashamed for something that could have easily happen to anyone. You deserve better.
Actually, your personal doctor is an idiot. It would have taken HER all of five minutes to call in a prescription for you. She also should have written a prescription for EC for you when you quit taking the pill to be used in just such an emergency.
Looks like the beaver bit you. Get a new doctor right away.
Time to leave rural Ohio, don't you think? Why subject yourself to this kind of disrespect?
You should feel ashamed. Sex is for a man and wife who are open to life. It is not meant for people to use to satisfy their selfish desires but as a procreative miracle. The "parasite" is a human life. How easy it is for you to kill a child only because it is in the earliest form of development. Why not just kill a 3 year old because they are getting to expensive and inconvenient. People's morality have become so messed up they see nothing wrong in murdering their own child.
Sounds like lawsuit time to me: denial of necessary medical care. Want to get rich quick?
found your blog via reddit... must say I feel AWFUL for you.
And to Doug in the comment above - I think a very good case can be made for the fact that taking EC IS demonstrating personal responsibility. Obviously BB is aware of the risks of using a condom, and thankfully(!) EC is legal in this country. BB does not want another child, and rather than get pregnant and a) have an abortion, or b) raise an unwanted child into a situation where there may or may not be enough money to go around - she took the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY upon herself to try to find EC.
But whatever. I'm glad you found a dispensing clinic, and hope everything is all in order.
I must admit that about 1/3 of the way into your post, I quickly stopped and took out my own pack of Ortho Tricyclen and took the pill I'd been putting off taking (I'm a slacker). Made me thankful that I don't suffer bad side effects.
Also makes me thankful for the times I've had to take EC (a couple were being WAAAY over cautious as I hadn't even had sex!) and the people who have been there for me when I have. Like the Nurse at student health at my University in New Zealand who dispensed my first EC to me. She called me the next day to see if everything went OK and if I had experienced any nausea. Seriously. I love that woman.
Good luck BB!!
Contact the ACLU.
MANY ONLINE PHARMACIES WILL SHIP IT TO YOU NEXT DAY. OR MONDAY IF ORDERED SATURDAY: STILL ON TIME!
I say: let'd boycot these motherfuckers and let's by ALL our meds (over the counter or not) on line!
Do a Google "emergency contraception birth control pill"
One site is http://www.fwhc.org/birth-contro...rol/
thepill.htm
Some pills work and some don't. Check out which ones work. Tell your OB/Gyn that you want to try another go on the pill and insist on one of the types that work as EC. Then keep them safely in the fridge, getting a new scrip on schedule.
That's what every single woman out there who is sexually active or has prospects should do. BE PREPARED.
I hope you dodged the bullet this time. Cutting the bastards off and telling them you have an incompetent cervix due to surgery should have gotten you a scrip, no questions asked.
Man, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear that you've been the victim of such an antiquated, anti-woman, anti-sex, irrational philosophy.
*However*...
To the posters who are arguing that the doctors should be *forced* to prescribe medicine that they don't want to prescribe - how is that any better?
The relationship between a patient and his or her medical professional must be *voluntary*. Just as the medical professional has no right to *force* the patient to take unwanted medicine, the patient has no right to *force* the medical professional to prescribe medicine.
I just wish they'd be upfront about it ... "no, I won't prescribe it because it's against my religious beliefs."
Man, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear that you've been the victim of such an antiquated, anti-woman, anti-sex, irrational philosophy.
*However*...
To the posters who are arguing that the doctors should be *forced* to prescribe medicine that they don't want to prescribe - how is that any better?
The relationship between a patient and his or her medical professional must be *voluntary*. Just as the medical professional has no right to *force* the patient to take unwanted medicine, the patient has no right to *force* the medical professional to prescribe medicine.
I just wish they'd be upfront about it ... "no, I won't prescribe it because it's against my religious beliefs."
BB, definitely try and get the word out through the media. Stay anonymous if you think your conservative-ass community will discriminate against you even more, but we've already seen how far your story can spread on the web. Someone mentioned that thay had sent your story to every reporter they knew in your area...
Also, get a consultation with a lawyer and see if there are any options available to you. The damn medical-nazis have covered their butts pretty well with "morality" clauses, but go ahead and ask anyway. ESPECIALLY if you do end up pregnant. As for the cost, bunches of lawyers would be interested in doing this pro-bono or for modest fees. And set up a pay pal account for us to donate to if you do decide to go down the litigation path.
By now, the die's been cast, but maybe we can salvage some lemonade from this disaster.
even though i knew this sort of thing was occurring in the U.S., it's still always disturbing to hear.
people have been comparing the services doctors and other healthcare workers provide as similar to, say, a private retailer selling commercial goods. the private retailer is allowed to pick and choose what he or she sells, so why can't the doctor or healthcare professional do the same?
the argument against that is that healthcare and commercial goods are completely different in terms of availability and impact on peoples' lives. in this case, EC, a perfectly legal product only available in limited locations, has much MUCH more weight than, say, an R-rated video, which is generally more available and has little effect upon the consumer. you cannot simply dismiss the denial of selling EC as a "personal moral choice" equivalent to refusing to sell R-rated movies (or anything else) as a moral choice because they AREN'T equivalent.
someone (on Fark.com of all places) also pointed out that, if the particular healthcare providers involved in this little fiasco denied providing EC to black people because they didn't like blacks, they'd be absolutely in the wrong, even if such racism was their personal moral belief. the situation here is clear: BB was denied healthcare because of her marital status (and, arguably, gender). you cannot do that, ESPECIALLY in the medical field.
the last point, about the lack of Planned Parenthood services, is a disturbing trend that many people are unaware of. slowly but surely, Planned Parenthood locations are being closed down, and peoples' ability to even speak with someone about contraception and abortion is being whittled away and replaced with abstinence-only programs and an overall denial of human sexuality. just being in the U.S. affords us lots of freedoms other countries cannot enjoy, but we are certainly doing a GREAT job of removing those rights. what the hell is going on!?
that's absolutely terrible. who are they to play god with your body? I had a similar scare last year and was amazed when things didn't turn out as yours did. called my doc's office, they called the doctor, he faxed the prescription, the grocery store filled it within an hour. that's how the system should work. why the hell would they make it a prescription medicine if you couldn't actually get it?
I gaurantee that if you'd called the doctor looking to get a prescription of some diet pill they wouldn't have been saying "hmmm are you over 250 pounds? do you have any psychological illnesses? have you tried Atkins? did daddy give you the pony you wanted?" it would have just been "Sure, here ya go"...
are pharmacists allowed to disclose what doctors can and do prescribe EC? because that could save everyone a lot of trouble. well, assuming the pharmacist isn't some old-fashion, bible-thumping god-fearing misogynist, too.
I'm very sorry this happened.
Nowadays, America feels like a theocracy sometimes. A sick theocracy whose holiest saints are corporations, and the most faithful thing the followers can do is amass fortunes at the cost of the poor.
These religious nutjobs shame the Constitution with every idiotic decision they make. Hell, they shame the Bible with their intolerance, apathy toward the poor, hypocrisy, and greed.
Please, please someone in Ohio turn this into a short-film documentary, or at least a news report . . . help people see that a vote for the Republican Party is a vote to live by some kind of theocratic rule that denies people the most basic freedoms of conscience.
Sorry to sermonize. I really hope everything turns out better for you from here on out. I wish I had been anywhere near the zealots who denied you the legal care you wanted. It might not show in this quick note, but I'm very good at verbally abusing dipshits like the doctors you ran into.
.
Doug - read my long response to Hephastion.
(a) This is victim-blaming = "You didn't do enough," or "If you had done so-and-so, this wouldn't have happened." In other words, utter bullshit.
(b) You want to judge just how bad her side effects were before you will "accept" her decision to not use hormonal birth control? That level of entitled chutzpah is unbelievably crass; I wish it could be made illegal.
(c) There can be many reasons not to get a vasectomy or tubal ligation, starting with finances and progressing on through health issues and others I know nothing about. As a complete stranger, you have no right whatsoever to question BB and Dubhe on the decisions they've made about their sex lives. The utter, unmitigated gall is astounding.
(d) She was using personal responsibility, you asshole. There was no unprotected sex. When an accident occurred, BB responsibly tried to obtain a legal drug to prevent conception. She had a plan (condom) and a backup plan (EC). The backup plan failed because a bunch of misogynistic doctors denied her access to what she had a legal right to. IF her doctor had prescribed it in the first place, there wouldn't even be a discussion.
So, DON'T put the blame on BB & Dubhe; it belongs squarely on the paternalistic medical system, which thinks it can dictate women's lives at a whim.
.
EC is not abortion.I've read that about a thousand times in the past week or more.EC is not abortion. True. But lets not lean on that too hard in case we appear to be saying:
EC ======good
RU486====bad
The morning after pill, and the abortion pill are both GOOD. WE are entitled to BOTH. Let's be careful we don't bury RU486 in our haste to distance ourselves from it. EC is not an abortion pill but we are going to have both of these, whether they like it or not.
"The Medical Uses of Mifepristone
"In addition to its use in terminating unwanted pregnancies, MIFEPRISTONE (formerly known as RU-486) also may be effective in treating a range of serious diseases and medical conditions, many of which particularly affect women. Yet U.S. clinical trials for most of these uses have come to a standstill due to anti-abortion politics."
www.feminist.org/action/action120f.htm
The abortion pill medical uses:
*psychotic (major) depression
*uterine cancer
*endometriosis
*fibroids
*HIV
*Cushings Disease
All these diseases are very difficult to treat, and so far, RU486 is looking good in clincial trials. BUT. It's going to have one hell of a time making it through the FDA who are fucking owned by the right, because it is the also the ABORTION pill. The anti-choice people don't give a damn how many women die, as long as a clump of cells is protected.
If you care about EC (the morning after pill/PlanB) care about the abortion pill, RU486 (mifepristone). Don't defend the one by distancing it (and yourself) from the other. They are both instruments to a woman's right of conrol over her body and choice.
Campaign for mifepristone and contraceptive research
http://www.feminist.org/rrights/...ts/
medical.html
Greg,
Sexist pricks like those refusing to prescribe EC don't shame the Bible; in fact, they are probably quite familiar with it:
1 Peter 3
3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.
...
3:5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
3:6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
In fact, the Bible shames women. Any woman who voluntarily subjects herself to Christianity can't have read the Bible from cover to cover.
I havent read all the comments on here so I dont know if others have posted this but there are 2 pts I would like to address:
1) I once needed EC on a Friday night, I also found that all the Planned Parenthoods were closed for the entire weekend. I waited till Monday morn and went in. The nurses there let me know that Plan B has been found to be effective up to 72 hours after the incident. This was several years ago now, but I am assuming it is still true.
2) For the very ignorant "Pete Moss" that posted on here. I would like to take a moment to educate you about women's health:
EC is not the same as getting an abortion. It does not elminate a fetus that already exists in your body. Rather, it simply makes the uterus unwelcoming so that an egg will not be fertilized and attach to the uterus wall. It is a form of birth control pills.
In today's society birth control is widely accepted as a repsonsible way of helping people plan their family, and is even endorsed by the catholic church. Wake up and smell the coffee, step into the 21st century, and realize that we live in a country were we are all entitled to the right to choose what we do with our bodies, and if you believe that getting EC is a sin or wrong, then dont do it with your body. And since you will never be pregant, you dont need to worry about it at all.
This is one of the many reasons why I am leaving OHIO. Many residents of Ohio are still stuck in the dark ages.
It is a shame that women continue to get harassed.I am so tired of grumpy old white guys controlling our bodies. We(women)need to unite and take to the streets. This is complete bull sh–!
This would have never happened in a more progressive state.
get out of the red states.
I'm terribly sorry to hear that it is so hard for you to obtain the EC that definately applies in this situation and I agree that you should pursue an action that makes it easier on others in the future who need this for the same reasons; however, I am curious about a few things. From what I can tell everyone seems to want to sue the hospitals and doctors and such that "wouldn't prescribe the EC" but from what I can tell - and this is a reasonable decision on your part - you chose not to take the chance to talk to any of the doctors in the emergency room because you'd have to pay to $100. Now to be honest, that is absolutely rediculous that you'd have to spend $100 on the remote possibility that you'd get accepted, but the fact that you didn't actually go down there to get rejected says that they had the possibility to accept or reject depending on their perception of the problem. I hate to say this, but while I wouldn't condone a doctor telling you no, none of them actually did as far as I can tell, and that means there's nothing you can really hold against them. I also am amazed at the number of people who seem to assume that all doctors are male or something. How many more people in these posts are going to rant on about how men are pigs because they don't understand what a woman is going through here? If you really got down to it, a woman who hasn't ever given birth doesn't even know what BB is going through, so she's just as at fault, not to mention the fact that some of these doctors - man or woman - might have said yes and given her the EC. Everyone wants to jump on the flame bandwagon, and there are so many people out there who just blanket all of a particular group as evil because a minority of that group - or even a majority of that group in some cases - makes the mistake that goes against your favor. "White, males are bad and hate all other races, especially females and want to subjugate them to their will" is not a valid statement, and depending on the demographic of where you are, can be quite the opposite of the majority despite what most people think.
I feel terrible that this kind of material would not be made available to you in this case, and I certainly hope you can avoid the price of an accident.
People who care need to look at options on changing the laws regarding these issues so that this doesn't happen to others.
Sorry if this was already posted, I don't have time to wade through the comments.
Nortrel will NOT work as EC.
So many things going through my mind after reading your blog entry, and then so many more added, after reading the comments section. It truly is amazing to me, that with the World's most powerful educational tool at their fingertips, some people still refuse to use it to learn before (apparently) smacking their foreheads repeatedly against the keyboard.
There will always be a few Trolls, BitingBeaver. You actually and surprisingly, got very few of them by internet standards. Suffice to say, their broad ignorance of what Plan B actually is and does, comes across perfectly, thus rendering any comment they slap out, moot.
Hopefully some of the other well-intentioned commenters come back and read as well - what happened to you had little if nothing to do with gender. It had everything to do with Human Nature, and the desire to make others do as you think they ought, regardless of circumstance.
Bashing men is just as repellent as bashing women, or race, or age, or any other difference that is perceived or real. *shrugs* We're all in it together.
Many folks find that the tenants of religion allow them to pretend that they have some sort of bogus moral high ground, and are somehow then allowed to perform the classic "do as I say, not as I do" maneuver.
I am not a religious person by nature, but nor am I anti-religion. I firmly believe as true, that whatever makes YOU a better person, is worth following...but your rights begin and end there - with yourself.
Best of luck to you and your family, BB. Kudos for your tremendous courage as well, in writing this up and going public. Hopefully it has opened a few eyes, and maybe even expanded a few minds. Of course, it has ever been easier to be and remain ignorant, than to admit one does not have all the answers and then seek them out with unbiased eyes and open mind.
That blows! Freakin christian fuck-faces! I took EC a few yrs ago and went to my drs office to get it, but I don't understand why you're having such a problem. Good luck.
This isn't the first time something like this has happened.
George Bush made me have an abortion: http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...6060201405.html
So sorry to hear your story. It's a shame what's happpening in our day and time. Best wishes and regards from Mexico.
You should try looking up https://getthepill.com/learn.php. I've used it before, and they get your prescription to your pharmacy within 4 hours or so.
Horrible horrible. Fucking assholes.
Don't use Nortel for birth control. Phones are big, and can be very painful.
1 ECP = 3 birth control pills. Read the following:
I sympathize with you greatly, as I have had a similar situation to yours. My reaction was to immediately go to the county health clinic and get ECPs (without incident). This has only happened twice, but each time sucked horribly. The ECPs that were given to me were described like this: basically, one ECP is the equivalent of three birth control pills. Take the first one with plenty of food and water. Take the second/last one exactly 12 hours later with plenty of food and water. Emphasis on the food and water part. If you don't, you'll want to rip your kidneys out of your back and you'll also vomit -- you have to keep the pills down for at least an hour. So basically, you're taking six in one day. The reaction I had to each instance was the same -- puking and nauseau for the entire day -- so plan to take a day off if you try this method. Good luck if you try this, and good luck if you don't.
Dear BB. Relax. It will be OK.
If you're interested in why you can relax, here are the reasons.
Chemical contraceptives of any kind remain potent and active in the body for about three months after you stop taking them. My wife and I learned this during our ongoing struggle to have children. That oughtta whack most of those sperm.
Nowadays most latex condoms are coated inside and out with at least a thin layer of spermicidal lubricant. That oughtta get most of the rest.
If worn correctly, condoms break at the base, not at the tip. On the box it reads "Reservoir tip" which means the latex there is more relaxed and thus thicker during coitus. Unless your man's entire torso could enter your womb, it is almost physically impossible for the little swimmers to even get to the seminal pool, let alone the tube when they came out at the base.
Current medical knowledge states that the egg selects only the healthiest sperm, going through them one by one. Anything coated with the aforementioned chemicals would gross you out, same with the egg, she ain't havin it.
But suppose the egg had some of that butter rum and Lurch the mutant sperm started to look good. The uterus needs a healthy lining to seat an egg. With healthy monthly flows. According to your medical history yours are not. So where will the egg seat?
See, your medical history proves that your hormones are out of whack, that is a solid fact because no one could survive the round robin regimen of drugs you took without exacerbating hormonal receptor dysfunction. The hormones determine whether you will shuck lining or not. If they are dysfunctional, your body has to find another way to shuck the lining before it becomes a health risk. So it uses a different hormone to send a message to the push muscle, the muscle clenches involuntarily, hopefully some lining is shucked off, and you experience menstrual cramps.
If you are not getting enough water (1.5 - 2 liters a day in most of the US, esp Midwest), the cramps are even more severe, because you need water to shuck lining. The alcohol might make you feel temporarily better but it is actually making the problem worse. Your filtration system hogs your water supply to process the alcohol as a poison. Then there is less available for the rest of your parts, including your womb. Likewise, smoking causes your lungs to require more moisture to humidify your breath, especially if you've been spending most of your time indoors or live in most of the US. That moisture is no longer available to the rest of your parts. The moisture makes up the mucosal tubal lubricant that allows the sperm to travel up to meet the egg.
Without moisture you get what my wife experienced. 3 years of coitus and no children. Periods that lasted two months at a time, or missed for 3 months at a time. Intense cramps.
She refused to drink water because she didn't like it. I bought her fancy chick water, Evian, you name it, but she wouldn't drink more than 8oz a day. When she finally got pregnant, there was no mucosal moisture in the tube. The fertilized egg couldn't slide down to the lining. It got stuck behind the scar of a cyst that also failed to slide down the tube a few months before. It exploded the tube and she nearly died from massive internal hemorhaging.
That's what it took to wake her up to what she was doing to herself. She started buying Kool-aid mix and drinking about 1 liter a day (for her build she really needs 2 liters). Her cycle is now regular. She still gets cramps when she doesn't drink enough Kool-aid.
The one thing I learned from all this is that reasoning with a hormonal woman is a complete waste of time. You know it's the truth (if you don't, prepare for several upcoming retaliatory comments to prove it). BB, maybe this will catch you at a good time and you'll take stock of your health habits. But really, this post is for the healthy women and men here that can be reasoned with, so that they can stay healthy. Please don't believe everything the doctors tell you about the safety of contraceptive drugs. If you have cycle problems, please please please- make sure you are getting 8 glasses of water a day. It's the cheapest treatment of all, and it worked for me and my wife when all the expensive drugs made things worse. Make Kool-aid, force yourself, do whatever it takes. So you have to use the restroom more often, it beats using the ER more often.
Plan B is just a high dose of synthetic progesterone so maybe if you took a bunch of progesterone only birth control pills? You should look up the info on Plan B first so you don't overdose yourself. Let's just say that my experience was the complete opposite of yours and I'm really sorry to hear that you had such a horrible experience.
http://www.getthepill.com/
They're actually really good.
BB,
Any chance of you publishing the names of the "hospitals"? Perhaps a flurry of letters from outraged citizens might get them to thik twice about treating any other woman this way.
RECORD ALL YOUR CALLS. THEN SUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
check here for info on ways to prevent implantation, an esp. simple way is the vitamin C method, which increases body acidity to create an inhospitable environment
http://www.sisterzeus.com/List.htm
That is so fucked up.
I want to thank you for pissing me off. Otherwise I wouldn't have known about all of this 'criteria' crap they put you through.
My man, who's the only person I know who's a more radical feminist than myself, points out that you could probably legitimately file a complaint with the medical board against the Urgent Care clinic for malpractice. Emergency contraception and mifepristone are demonstrably NOT the same thing. Conflating them, even casually, is medically irresponsible and they would likely get at least a reprimand.
(Also, you should do anything you can to kick these fuckers' asses.)
Fuck them.
I know it sucks, but next time tell them you WERE raped, just to see what happens... decline to admit details... then don't file a police report... I don't know if that's possible... but it's one way to fuck the system.
hey, sorry to hear about your story. It really sucks that people always try to force their "morality" onto others.
Just thought I would chime in and point out that it may be "too damn bad" for some women who ARE rape victims; this incident occurred around this time last year in my hometown of Tucson, AZ:
http://www.azstarnet.com/dailyst...ystar/
99156.php
Some day, somewhere in the US a woman is going to walk into a clinic, ER, doctors office or pharmacy with a gun to get her EC prescription.
Thank the Goddess I live in Canada.
One can use regular birth control pills (in a specific dosage and schedule of doses) and they act like EC (Plan B).
The following web site will show you the dosages and schedule for specific contraceptive pills.
http://ec.princeton.edu/question.../
dose.html#dose
Best of luck.
Hi, I just read your blog about the EC and I am shocked and outraged. I had to take EC this past summer and I had a really good experience. I went to the local health department, in all places KY, and the nurses, female nurses, were wonderful. I had had sex in a heat of the moment and didn't think. It was a stupid thing to do, at least you did use a condom. Anyway the nurse, even though she knew I had consented to sex and wasn't married, took time with, explained to me what the pill was and told me I was doing the right thing, and that I was not inducing and abortion. The office visit and EC pill only costed $5.00!
After my experience this past summer, I am surprised to see that people in the healthcare industry are so closed minded.
I hate that you had to be made to feel that way.
I hope you have better luck in the future with you reproductive rights.
If you lived in a civilized country, you could get EC at any pharmacy, anytime, no questions asked. But apparently, you live in a third world country...
What nonsense. How can they reject you? If you come in and say I have a problem don't they (maybe I should say shouldn't they)figure out the situation circumstances- maaayybe do a physical to just check for evidence of rape or to see if you will react badly to the pill. -i am afriad my knowledge of the EC is extremely lacking but i'm sure they must be somethign they have to check for before they prescribe it to cover thier own asses- If it is a thing where they fear you might be getting it for someone else... have the person take it in front the nurse/doctor. end of story...
why must we presist in this dominated religious society of hypocrites? in one response a person lashes out at you because of some personal (rightwing?) vaules and another questions how bad to feel? SO WHAT! It's not illeagle and you have a right to it! Would either of those people- and any other dissentors- be so quick to keep someone off of death row? or some terroist? (deaR lord i can't beliee i just brought terroist into this) but you get the point. You can't have it both ways folks.
anyways- i hope it all turns out for the best- keep us up to date.
-x
As I understand it, Plan B is now available OTC at any pharmacy that carries it. Is this not so?
This whole story is so fucked up. I'm very much a "to each their own person," but at the same time, I think some people out there need to be sterilized (mainly those that repeatedly use abortion as a form or birth control).
You, on the other hand TRIED to do everything right. And, for that reason alone, you should not be denied access to EC.
It's not like you were haphazardly having random sex. And, even if you were, you used a condom, which is what ALL DOCTORS RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO!
You should not be penalized just because the birth control currently on the market gives you too many side effects. That's an issue of medicine -- not you.
I'm sorry you have to go through all of this!
I am always amazed by the hypocrisy and inconsistency of the Religious Right. BB's story is a prime example. Doctor's who won't prescribe EC are increasing the number of abortions performed. Surely this is more "immoral" than giving someone a pill that prevents conception in the first place. Not only that but the people who won't prescribe EC to unmarried couples are the ones who think having children out of wedlock is immoral. If anything, they should refuse to prescribe EC to married people as the purpose of marriage is to procreate (according to them).
I also think there are certain professions where people's personal moral code can not come into play. A pharmacist has to prescribe legal medicines to those who medically qualify for them. To allow otherwise is to open up a Pandora's Box where no one can get the medical treatment they need because of someone's personal beliefs.
OMFG.
What if every woman who ended up pregnant due to this shit could force the men responsible to adopt the babies they forced upon her PLUS her medical expenses. How's that for taking responsibility for their actions???
I bet their "morals" would take a different direction then! Selfish, narrow minded mother-fuckers - and a do mean that literally!
Oh yeah. What you really need to do is lie. Just lie to them. I think all those nervous nurses on the phones are hinting to you that you need to make up some story so that everybody feels better. I know lying is a little naughty but what's the alternative? Like they say: good girls rarely make history.
this makes me so sick. both the people that denied you and the assholes that try to make your actions wrong in past comments. it is no ones business but your own what your reasoning for getting EC was, PERIOD. the condom broke, you were being respossible, you see no reason to have more children, and you should have been scripted EC, no questions asked. I wish some of those catholic families with 10+ kids (FREAKS) would act as responsible as you. Fuck there morality! there morality has FORCED you into the position of a LIFE ALTERING EVENT! there "morality" is FORCING you into the chance of being pregnant. what makes this any different from forcing a woman into and unwanted sexual act and an unwanted pregnancy? Rape may not have caused your siduation, and you should never have to use that as an excuse to get something that is legal and should be easy to obtain, but you were raped by there system. they made you feel exposed, sub-human, humiliated, and ashamed with there questions, you were denied your right, and in the end they left you helpless. this is no less tramatizing or demeaning! get yourself a lawyer and sue every last fucking dime out of those criminals, call your PCP every Saturday morning for the rest of her life, show her what its like to be annoyed, when all it could have taken was a minute out of her precious time to "CARE" about her patient and write a script. these people had no problem possible ruining your life, so dont think twice about ruining theres.
then when all is said and done.... move to canada, no more problems in the future. I hope that you got the EC in time and that everything goes well for you. my hopes are with you.
~aoi
Horrible.
Don't let the beurocratic shit get you down, and don't let the fuckers make you feel bad.
*big hug*
Best of luck to you.
"Next time, Drive around the lake to Canada and pick it up at one of many 24 hour drug stores. Tell customs why you're entering Canada and they'll wave you right through.
anonymous | 09.22.06 - 5:17 pm | #
###################
I doubt it.
It is possible to get the morning after pill in Canada without a prescription, but many pharmacists are refusing to provide. If they do provide, they can ask you to fill out an invasive questionnaire. How many times have you had sex in the previous so many hours. Etc. Maybe the pharmacist will hand you a pen to do it yourself, and maybe he/she will ask you the questions one by one, and you'll answer to the fascinated attention of some guy picking up his Viagra--no questions asked. You'll pay between $25 - $50, and your name and address, along with the private information you've given on the form, will be entered into the pharmacy computer, which then goes to marketing departments across North America. The better to serve you. Ya know?
Maybe you should find a male volunteer to go to the same practioners and see if they'll prescribe him with Viagra and whether they ask him his marital status.
Last message didn't go through I guess. Trying again.
I am deeply sorry that these barbaric "doctors" have treated you in this manner. They are not doctors in my eyes and their belief systems have no place in the science/medical field. Their asses should be sued back to the hell they came from for this and they should be stripped of their duties.
Birth control should never require a subscription, ever! It is only a tool to exert control over people such as yourself. It's a cruel world and my heart's with you. I hope the laws are changed where you're at, because it's not fair in the slightest. It's disgusting to do this to people.
D.
Just this afternoon I spoke at a college class. The sutdents had been given an assignment to call their local drugs stores and ask for Plan B. Nothing was simple or straight forward. No one just said yes. The stories went from asking for a prescription, saying they did not carry it, to a few who did not know what it is.
I was most astonished that many of these 20 year old students were embarassed ~ not outraged. We have so much work to do. I went out to speak on reproductive autonomy and against California Proposition 85 which would require parental consent to terminiate a pregnancy.
Even tho I am well past reproductive age, I am thinking on buying some Plan B just to have for my young friends. Besides, the price is around $75 here, cheaper than abortion but still a lot for a 16 year old to have on hand. What's it gonna take to make women's bodies the property of the soul inside of it!
Some quick advice for everyone reading this. Go to the doctor and get a dose of plan b before it happens and keep it handy. To paraphrase the boy scouts, "Plan B Prepared"
I don't know where you live but it's time to call some lawyers. If you have to get an abortion you should sue every one of those doctors that refused to treat you.
Hey, I just wanted to mention, this may not be a girl-only thing.
I'm now 41, but 20 years ago I wanted a vasectomy for various reasons. I was willing to pay full (monetary and ethical) price.
Couldn't get it done. I checked around in my state (Alaska, at that time) and was told that doctors who could do the procedure would basically consider me too young to make such a momentous decision. I asked about having sperm frozen - no, they said; it won't last long enough to be useful should you change your mind later.
Well, I personally decided to be more careful about using traditional methods of birth control. It worked okay for me; I'm still childless by choice. Coulda gone the other way, I guess. And I dunno if doctors still do this (I suspect they do). But I thought I'd mention it as a tangential kind of thing.
Good luck with your situation!
I've said it before*, and I'll say it again: "Sometimes I hate this fucking country."
*Mostly since election day 1994
If I were in your situation and got pregnant, I would sue each and every person that refused the EC for child support. They wanted the pregnancy so damn bad. They can pay for the child, too.
This is what happens when government tries to legislate morality. What a fucking joke. I'm really, really sorry.
I'm not too sure about -contraceptives-, but... I've heard tell from various girls who've gotten suddenly pregnant that getting x-rayed effectively kills the fetus. I wouldn't know, being a male and not having to worry about this kind of thing.
Move to a different country. One not run by right wing Christian fundamentalist. Large parts of the World are sane and not controlled by fundamentalist Christiand or Muslims
If you can get to Cleveland, there are plenty of places, including Planned Parenthood & Preterm.
Also, for your other readers, you can get EC early (by Rx still) and have the script at home, or get it filled before you actually need it.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry for all you had to go through... I have had something even odder happen to me, if you can beleive it.
I had cervical cancer when I was 18 (and before any of you bible thumpers say anything...I WAS A VIRGIN AT THE TIME..thankyou.) and consequently had most of my cervix surgically removed. Never wanting children, and being told that pregnancy would not be a great idea considering...I asked for a tubal ligation. I asked dozens of doctors over SIX years, and four states...until I finally found one willing to perform the procedure.
I was asked the exact same questions as you...if I was married, how many kids etc... No one cared about the fact that I had cancer or that scitzophrenia and alziemer's runs rampant in my family, OR that every woman in my family has eityher died in childbirth or come close (both sides, narrow hips)....and even so, some asshats asked me why I "wouldn't just ask my boyfriend to get a vasectomy?" or even better "Does your boyfriend consent for you to have this done?"
(Okay...so He can choose not to have kids...but I can't?!)
Even now, when people find out that I am sterile, they either congratulate me or look at me in horror ( "but what if you change your MIND?!", I like to throw the same question back at married people...somehow, choosing someone you will spend the rest of your life with in your early 20's is "realistic" yet, choosing not to have kids is "immature" even with the medical condition, family history etcetera)I am now 24...and I can't tell you how much my life has improved in the months after my surgery...finally free of hormones and fear of conception.
I live in Philadelphia, ladies.... Try
the Planned Parenthood on Locust Street first, They offer Essure to any sane female who wants it. If not, shoot me an email...I will gladly help anyone who needs direction...since I have looked in all of them
Anyway...if anyone reading this organizing anything for the cause, I would be highly interested in participating...
BB, how did this get resolved? I read through, and did see that you'd located a provider and hour and a half away, but I never saw where you got there and got it. I take it you did, yes? Are you okay? Are you experiencing adverse effects like you do when you take other hormonal contraceptives?
I hope all goes well with you. Thank you for sharing your story. I'm so sorry this was so difficult for you.
2) For the very ignorant "Pete Moss" that posted on here. I would like to take a moment to educate you about women's health:Actually Melo, you need to educate yourself about EC and about some pro-life stances, so that you are not gift-wrapping the "It's an abortifacient!!!!" stance, for your opponents.
EC is not the same as getting an abortion. It does not elminate a fetus that already exists in your body. Rather, it simply makes the uterus unwelcoming so that an egg will not be fertilized and attach to the uterus wall. It is a form of birth control pills.
EC works by suppressing Luteinizing Hormone, a hormone which stimulates ovulation. No ovulation? No egg is released. No egg? No fertilization. EC is contraception.
The reason so many pro-life people are against EC is because they, like you, misunderstand how EC works. They think it is an abortifacient, in that they think it makes the uterus a hostile environment for a fertilized egg, much as you claim, above, in your rebuttal to Pete Moss.
They, like you, probably think this, because pharmaceutical companies used to use this claim to market (standard) birth control pills. This claim is half the reason this country has its head up its collective ass about contraception. It's a speculative claim. There have been some attempts to prove/disprove it, and they're spun by whoever's buying that day.
For some pro-lifers, once an egg is fertilized, it is a human life (or at least an entity deserving some manner of protection) because all the genetic material needed for a human is in that fertilized egg. So when you're reporting speculative notions about the uterus being made hostile by EC, you're actually feeding their fears about EC, which are more marketing than medicine.
There's something very specific we can each do about this besides rant on a blog.
I have decided to ask this question of every medical provider and pharmacy I use from now on.
I'm postmenopausaul and my husband is fixed, so I will never need EC.
But I most definetly do not need immoral health care providers.
That is so terrible. Morality should never be brought up when it comes to a person's choice to do with their body what they please.
BB - I had a tubal ligation and it was worth every penny. certainly worth saving all the heartache you have gone through. I highly recommend it if you're sure you don't want more kids.
Please sue the shit out of every single hospital you called.
I am prolife, and I disagree rather strongly with your decision to use the Plan B drug in this case. Don't worry, I don't have any names to call you, respectful disagreement is quite enough for me.
That said, I find it incredibly disturbing that a doctor uses his/her morals as a kind of filter for the law. Though I may not agree with the use of Plan B, it is legal, and therefore these doctors have no right to stand in the way of those who seek to obtain it. I would recommend you seek some kind of reprimand for them, but as you say, I worry that you would be the victim of reprisals within your community.
Believe it or not, I wish you well, and hope that Plan B isn't even necessary for you, just as I'm sure you do. Luck to you.
For future reference,
For those unfortunate occaisions when the condom breaks, you can take 4 birth control pills over a 12 hour period -- meaning you take 2 and then 12 hours later you take another 2. You will get your period in a day or two or three.
About six years ago in Minnesota I went to the emergency room to get plan b, and at that time plan b wasn't available yet, at least not there, though I believe it was in other states. So the nurse just gave me a packet of birth control pills (nordette 28 which is .15 mg levonorgestrel and 30 mcg ethinyl estradiol) with those instructions. I haven't read all of these comments so I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I do know that will do the trick. Just remember that since this is much stronger dosing than plan b you might get nauseous. I remember being furious because I threw up and felt pretty wacky all because minnesota had chosen not to make plan b available even by prescription at that point. But a little nausea is better than getting pregnant. I also felt the shame you're talking about at that point because I got some attitude and also totally ignorant reponses from the first person I saw at the ER. Let that crap slide off you and wash away, don't start attacking yourself. Their attack is their attack, don't let it become yours.
Had sex ONE TIME when she had just gone off the pill, and I had forgotten. We DID get the plan B, and she took it. She couldn't be pregnant, right?
Neither of us wanted to persue the abortion option. When she was nine months pregnant, I was committed to a mental institution for 11 days.
My son is now 16 months old. We were married 13 months ago.
This is atrocious. The MAN in the story also had out of marriage sex. Society doesn't really get down on him, though, and treat him they way you were treated. Infuriating.
Just imagine how upset men would really be if we behaved the way they wanted. No sex before we get a ring man. I don't want to be a slut or have a kid out of wedlock or have an abortion because your standards of morality don't believe in plan b or abortion. Since these are your rules, you don't get any sex.
We obtained 'Plan B' without a problem. It didn't work.
This makes me wish I had taken the medical route instead of the art route. Then I could help women like you and me get something that should be 'easy acces.' Screw them. I scanned your most recent post and am disappointed in what some small minds have to say. I worked here in Texas like mad to allow EC over counter. Considering how many people are moved by your story, maybe you should open up a donation account or something with Paypal for the abortion in case you are pregnant. Those things aren't cheap. Good luck and I look forward to reading more of your blog.
In all fairness... The Hypocratic Oath does not require Dr's to prescribe emergency contraception. Not trying to stir up the shit too much, but only pointing out the other side of the argument. Shit does indeed happen unfortunately.
There is another contraceptive option you didn't mention in your post tho. I don't know what it's actually called, but it's something to the effect of "vaginal foam" which I've used in the past. The best way I can describe it is as a small baster that you use to inject this stuff that looks like shaving cream into the vagina prior to male ejaculation. Using a condom in conjunction with this method is more reliable than the pill, condom, diaphragm, etc used by itself. There are other options to save you a similar fiasco in the future.
And then, of course... abstinance. This method is also accompanied with a phrase I am unaware of the origins of -- "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime," -- which of course means if you don't want to face the consequences of certain actions, do not engage in those activities.
Your experiences mirror so many women in this country. Its despicable. It's time we did something about it. Check out www.mapconspiracy.org, a grassroots coalition of feminist groups from around the country, fighing to get the morning-after pill over the counter. We have taken this fight to the national level. We have, and will continue to do so, pressured the FDA with thousands of telepone calls, signatures on our "pledge to give your friend the morning-after pill", and held a sit-in blocking access to the doors of the FDA in response to the way they've blocked our access. We have defied the prescription requirement by passing out the morning-after pill to the crowd in front of the press and public. We are the co-plaintiffs in a lawsuit against the FDA (Tummino vs von Eschenbach) citing sex-discrimination in their handling of the approval process. The half-assed decision that was recently handed down, allowing for pharmacist prescribed access, or behind-the-counter, is not truly the same as over-the-counter. We will continue fighting until the morning-after pill is available at convenience stores, gas station vending machines, and airport kiosks, as well as pharmacies. You know how degrading it is to beg a doctor for the morning-after pill, it will be even worse to have to discuss your sex-life while standing in line at the drug store. And then you'll most likely end up with a pharmacist who has been allowed to refuse to dispense it due to "conscience clauses". Go on the offensive. Join us. mapconspiracy.org.
Again, for the very ignorant Pete Moss...I would put all my money on the fact that although you may be married, you do induldge in sex for pleasure. If not I would assume you've only had sexual intercourse a handful of times in your life, and of course no other forms of sexual pleasure.
You should wake up to the 21st century. The bible is just another story book Ass Clown.
If the act of making love was only meant to enable to process of procreation, God wouldn't have made it feel so good! Hints (Pete Moss)
Also Pete Moss, I would bet anything that you engage in sexual relations with your wife for PLEASURE purposes only...otherwise I would assume you've only had sex a handfull of times in your life...not to mention no other forms of sexual gratification. Wake up to the 21st century...21st century problems require 21st century solutions You Clown
This happened to me once, and my girlfriend went to her gyno the next day and he just told her to double up on her current pill (standard 28-day BC) for the next 2 days. She was pretty nauseous for a few days, but hey, no little ones!
i am so, so sorry. that's awful.
back to the stone ages we go.
Why didn't you just lie? I mean why not just say you were raped? or thought you were? Say you passed out at some party and you didn't know what happened. It's not like they can force you to name names. Since you just said you don't even know what happened. Lie to them feed their "morality" and make them pity you.
Sure you shouldn't have to lie. Everyone should be able to do anything they want as long as it doesn't hurt other people. But saddly life has never and will never work like that. Just like how the cops seem to think my drug use is grounds enough for constant harrassment.
We all have to deal with shit. Get tough.
Well this EXACT thing happened to me a couple of years ago. Condom broke - we went out - no big deal, right? - to get the pill. Well, we drove around to every 24 hour pharmacy in my backwoods podunk town. Did I mention I live in LOS freaking ANGELES?
Anyway, to cut a story short, my son is awesome. I love being a dad. We're still together and still not planning marriage. Sigh, not what you wanted to hear?
Consider this story promptly reposted on my blog. I really got sick hearing this, knowing that the government affords two sets of legal rights -- yours and your doctor's -- and blindly lacks acknowledgment of moral and legal conflicts. And I don't care about what the Pro-Lifers say; the cells haven't become an embryo just yet. It's upsetting and it's really retroactive in the scope of societal events.
As a college student here at Denison University in Granville, Ohio, I'm amazed how stupid some MDs can act. I'm originally from New Jersey, and have lived there my entire life-until college, at least. Back in Jersey, everyone minded their own business. Umarried? Fine. Life life on your own terms. Out here, it's a completely different story. A very sad story.
Why does everyone feel that they need to meddle with our morals? Even more disturbingly, how do they justify this meddling when someone's physical and emotional well-being is at stake? I'm well along the path to becoming a doctor, and feel that the questions NOT asked are sometimes more important than the questions that are.
A lot of people feel that this is some sort of abortion. It's not. A terrible lack of scientific knowledge has intertwined itself with religion to create public enemy #1. I feel that a bunch of men in Washington shouldn't tell you what to do with your body.
I doubt you'll get this in the massive response you've gotten to this blog, but if you take four birth control pills it does the same thing. I've had to do it because I've been in your exact situation, except mine was sexual assault.
Any kind of birth control pill will do. Take two at first and then another two 12 hours later. It's the same thing as the EC.
BUT this might make you throw up of feel queesy. Take some dramamine, perferably the less drowsy formula.
My gyno told me to do this, because it will save me money and since my area is also very conservative, no one would perscribe the pill. Sorry not to leave any contact info, I'd rather this be anonymous.
what the hell kind of fucked up midwestren hell hole are they running up there? down here in tampa if they tried that shit somebody would be getting thrown out on their ass over that kind of shit. sue on the behalf of freedom of choice lovers everwhere!!
Yes, it does indeed suck that you were put through that.
However, to the posters here who seem to think that this only happens to women, before you start burning your bras and marching in the streets, consider that this can also happen to men.
It is a moral thing. Not necessarily a sexist thing.
I'm getting married in... 8 days. I'm in my 20s. A few months ago my fiancee and I went to my physician and explained that I want to get a vasectomy.
He interviewed us, and it went something like this...
Doc: "I don't feel comfortable giving a vasectomy to someone so young. Why don't you want to have children?"
Me: "We simply don't want children, and due to a disorder that my fiancee has theres a high chance it would be stillborn. We don't want to go through that."
Doc: "Oh. I still don't feel comfortable. What about the pill?"
Me: "It makes her gain weight very rapidly. Neither of us want that."
Doc: "Oh. Condoms?"
Me: "Too risky."
Doc: "Tubes tied...?"
Me: "...Invasive surgery... No."
...an hour or so passes full of more of this crap...
Doc: "Okay, I'll do it."
So I scheduled it for the next week, and I wake up the morning of the surgery to the Doctor calling me and saying that he changed his mind and wasn't going to do it.
A polite, but stern and unyielding visit from us changed his mind back. But yes, its a moral thing, and not necessarily a sexist thing. So calm down.
My other thought is this though... Everyone here is looking at this from BB's side. How this made her feel.
And I'm not saying that I agree with the Doctors that she spoke to, but think about it from their perspective...
If they honestly believe that such a medication is akin to an abortion... and that an abortion is akin to murder, then by prescribing such a medication (in their minds) they would really be a murder accomplice.
And a final note about this "your morals shouldn't affect your job" b.s... Your morals should affect every aspect of your life. If they don't, they're not morals... They're just something you do in your spare time.
Wow, I'm so sorry T-T I wish to hell people would realize that thier morals are not nessisarily the morals of everyone else and its fucking wrong to ruin someone elses life because you think you know better ><
I had to take EC once, for the exact same reason as you. My doctor gave me a shitfest about it too, but perscribed me the pill because she'd "hate to see a kid with a kid" (I was 1
XD
Why is it that doctors, particularly doctors who do not work for the government, are expected to forego their own beliefs and CHOOSE to refrain from procedures they personally consider wrong?
It's funny how the 'right' to scramble offspring outweighs every other right in existence. Gotta save that money, though. Move it on up.
BYOB. . .back up your birth control. . . obtain the prescription for plan B and get plan B before you need it. . .then it is right there in your medicine cabinet when you need it. It is sad that women still need to worry about morality to control their own bodies.
That is an appalling story; I'm going to donate money to NOW (who's been trying to deal with this problem for awhile) tonight I think.
Also, I am not a doctor, but I was always told that you could just take 3 or 4 regular strength birth control pills at a time and it would be about the same as emergency contraception. I've done it before and it makes you feel pretty crappy, but it is better than getting pregnant. Then again, I've done some pretty stupid things birth control-wise and have never gotten pregnant, so maybe it doesn't work and I'm just lucky.
Good luck. Feel free to email if you're looking for a sympathetic ear.
Uh, you should have called back your doctor and told her that the ER place wouldn't prescribe the pill.
I don't understand how anybody could deny a woman EC. EC isn't an abortion pill!! Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with abortion. My mother had to go through the difficulty of an illegal abortion. She still feels guilty about killing her child, but she believes it was the best for the child, since if s/he was an "unwanted child", she would not adequately care for him/her.
Those backward blockheads are not only putting so-called morals ahead of health, they're causing social problems like neglected children and excessive population growth.
For those of you who think I'm saying this because I'm sexually promiscuous - I'm in university and have never had a lover or even kissed anyone outside of my family. My mother married her first and only boyfriend, the one whose child she aborted, and they had their 30th anniversary last year.
I hope that all women can have access to Plan B. If doctors and pharmacists have moral issues with it, they can deal with that AFTERWARDS.
This is a perfect example of close-minded, old-fashioned, right-winged, conservative bull-shit. I too live in Ohio and although I am not in a relationship, I still have close people that I have sex with and I always use a condom after not taking birth control after three years because of increasingly bad migraines.
This almost scares me in to not having sex until it becomes over-the-counter. I am a responsible person with no children and I'd like to keep it that way. I don't believe in abortion and would have to rely on EC.
Best of luck to you. And FUCK THOSE BASTARDS!!
I called the pharmacy too. And my own 'family' doctor refused to prescribe it. So I found PP - and even there got asked a lot of questions that felt weird.
I cannot wait till it's otc.
to be fair, i only made it part way before the comments before seeing if my point had been made, but i gave up. while i think it is total crap that you couldn't find access to EC when you requested it, i dont think a doctor should be required to take part in actions they find immoral.
i think a doctor should be afforded the same rights as a patient, and no one should be forced to do something they feel is wrong. though i feel a doctor's code should require them to inform a patient to all of their options, and provide for the patient accurate information, they should be able to opt out of non-emergency procedures.
I hope that you got the EC in time, but just in case, here is a back-up remedy: 1000mg of vitamin C taken every 2 hours (to tolerance, since it will send your digestive tract into a tailspin) - get the cheap stuff, rather than the ultra-natural healthy stuff, because you don't want extra bioflavinoids around to prevent you from terminating. The success rate on this is not 100%, so be prepared for the possibility that it might not work, but it is better than having to go for an abortion. Also, ginger is an abortifacient, so taking ginger capsules (I would recommend two every four hours, up to eight per day) might also help, or at the very least, drinking Jamaican ginger-beer like its going out of style.
As for those bastards who denied you EC, I'm all in favor of doing anything and everything that you can to shame them the way that they tried to shame you, including taking out a full page ad in the newspaper warning local women that those doctors and institutions will not do a damn thing for them should they ever need EC.
I really wish that these damned pro-birthers would realize that every child they force to be born against its mother's wishes is statistically more likely to suffer poverty, emotional trauma, lowered immunity, and potential abuse as a result of their hypocritical actions. They claim to care about life, but they don't give a flying fuck about quality of life.
Hi BB, here via Feministe.
I was appalled to read this story. And I'm ashamed to admit that my first thought was "why didn't she just lie and say she was raped, it's not like anyone can force her to press charges." I admire you for sticking to your guns and NOT going that route. Why should you have to lower your own moral standards just because thier's are screwed up? But I don't know if I could be that brave if I were that desperate.
I'm also appalled by those who think these doctors and pharmacists should be able to make moral judgements about your health. These health professionals are licensed by the state to provide health care. Do they get to ask invasive questions about marital status in order to decide whether or not to provide treatment for a man's STDs? After all, if a guy wasn't an enormous slut he wouldn't have gotten syphilis in the first place, right? Sorry! No antibiotics for you! Does an ER doc get to decide not to treat a gangbanger that gets shot because he doesn't approve of guns? After all, the kid chose to run with a dangerous crowd, right? Who the hell are they to decide who gets help and who doesn't? If they can't provide a standard of care that is based on medical reasoning, they shouldn't be doctors or pharmacists. Time to find another career.
I don't even understand the logic of how any pharmacist can justify not providing Plan B unless they also don't provide any other form of birth control. This is not an abortion - it's a conception prevention. But how many pharmacies would be able to stay in business if they refused to carry, oh for example, condoms? Or regular birth control pills? How hypocritical can they get? And if they don't know the difference between EC and RU486 (which they should also be providing, don't get me wrong) then they obviously aren't qualified to do their jobs.
Good luck, BB. I hope you got your medicine in time and the side effects aren't too bad.
I'll reiterate what others have said - complain. Complain to the medical board, complain to your original doctor and any partners she has in her practice, complain the the hospital administration at the ERs you tried. Even if nothing comes of your specific complaint, it will be on file the next time someone complains. While silence guarantees that nothing will change.
Let me get this straight. A doctor in the US can withhold emergency treatment if it conflicts with his own personal beliefs? So what if that emergency room doctor is a Jehova's Witness, and doesn't believe in blood transfusions? Is that ok too? Or is there a particular hypocrisy at work here?
That's just totally fucked up.
The people you dealt with are not medical professionals, they are quacks.
You needed to threaten to sue.
Don't ever take that crap lying down.
After talking to the first nurse, I would have called my lawyer.
You're a million times politer than I would have been. To any of them.
A lot of Feminazis out her eh. haha Im mostly just kidding. Look Im sorry to hear what you went/are going through, but lets keep in mind that these people have every right, and indeed a responibility to stand up for their morals. But if by standing their moral ground they are not fulfillig their jobs obligation, then they should be punished.
I personaly think that you got caught in bad spot. But by your own acount the hospitals never denied you treatment, they all said you are more than welcome to speak to the doctor. You chose not to. if the hospital did not give you treatment then they could not have charged you for the visit.
Good luck. I wish you the best.
Tina:
this has nothing to do with abortion
Tina | 09.22.06 - 4:22 pm |
I mentioned the abortion bit because of the "if i get pregnant and have an abortion . . ." comment. EC doesn't directly have to do with abortion, but you can't seriously believe that they aren't tied together in the minds of *many* people.
BB, I don't know you but living in rural KY, I can understand what you were up against. The local pharmacies still have the condoms near the Pharmacist's station so they can watch the people who buy them and give the customers nasty looks for "killing babies". And people wonder why Wal Mart has so much business here.
This is for Matt...
Why do you CARE if she uses Plan B. Hell, for that matter why should you give a damn is she decides to have an abortion. You aren't the father, nor (I am assuming) do you have any vested interest in her life. Is your life so mundane, so boring, so sexless that you must monitor the reproductive activities of the rest of the world? Keep your moral code out of other people's sex life and they will do the same for you.
Consider moving to Canada. Canada is a loving country that respects human dignity. People in Canada care about human beings after they are born.
My God. In England? Taking the EC if an accident occurs is regarded as the *responsible* thing to do. You can buy it over the counter no problem at all, but some people don't want to pay (all contraception here is always free if medically dispensed), so they go to a family doc, a family planning clinic, or...the ER. The only choice is pay $50 (25 seterling) or pay nada. Anything that averts a termination here = responsible. I'm so incredibly sorry this happened to you.
*if the hospital did not give you treatment then they could not have charged you for the visit. *
Travis, a consultation IS treatment, so yes, yes they could have.
Wow. Thats so fucking fucked up. Pardon my excessive use of curse words. I'm sorry. Can someone SEND you the pill after they get it from they're local somewhere? Is that even a possibility? There has to be someone you know that could help. Any thing is possible at this point.
This made me progressively angrier as I continued to read it. Thanks for reminding me that I never want to live in Ohio.
Hmm. Let's stop and think for a second.
All the methods that I'm using are causing me immense discomfort and pain...
Maybe birth control methods aren't good for my body...
But I'll have sex anyways and shit a brick when a less reliable contraceptive method fails...
Have you heard of oral sex or abstinence? Seriously.
Not really bothered if this is let through or not, but:
Why was it assumed that heph is a man? I looked and saw no obvious clues to this. I know a few women that hold that same view.
Secondly, the keeping your legs shut philosophy is technically a good idea, but if my condom breaks (yes, I'm a guy), I would sure as hell not blame it on the girlfriend. As a matter of fact, I would be calling around too, and I heard no mention of that.
Thirdly, I can see the point of posting links to herbal remedies...well...not remedies, but herbal mixtures to enduce a miscarriage, but along with anything that's herbal, and I trust them only so far, what's to keep that from really screwing you up anyways.
Fourth, semantically speaking, from your point of view, children are parasites, but they eventually do grow up, and in many cases end up taking care of the parents, and I know that if I were ever called a parasite by my parents, let alone my mother, that my forgiveness would not be quick in it's issue.
Fifth, I have seen no mention of the outcome of this? Have you gotten EC yet BB?
Thank you, and best of luck, I support you in this cause.
I don't really expect this to get through whatever filter you have, but after reading all this, I wanna say a few things.
1.) For all the idiots who said she should lie about being raped: There would be no faster way to get arrested and get her partner arrested. And then, after the rape-or-no-rape issue is finished (it's -very- hard to take back a claim of rape), get refused anyway after the doctor finds -zero- tearing, damage, or any other case of post-rape physical or mental symptoms. Because I assure you, the doctor's going to have you examined.
2.) To all of those that are railing against "hicks in the red states": Shut the fuck up. It's moronic people like you that are -exactly- like the doctors you're trying to rally people against. You're generically lumping people into categories for no reason. I'm in a red state. I'm not like them. Stupid bigots.
3.) To all of those that suggested she sue: She has no reason to sue. According to the article, she had telephonic conversations with people who were not in a position to issue or refuse the pill. She talked to nurses. And while nurses are almost universally better than the doctors, and can always predict what a doctor will do, she was never refused a prescription from someone in a position to offer it. Lawyers and judges would laugh at you. Even had a conversation with the doctors occurred over the phone, and he refused or had the same interview, it would have no legal hold, as there was no recording (which would have been illegal) and he still didn't do anything that broke any law.
4.) To every comment about "medicine she needs" and "her rights": Please, please, please, for the love of whateverthehellyou'reworshipping, stop using those phrases. She has no right to the medicine, and she doesn't need it. It's true that she wants it, but she doesn't need it. If there's a medical reason she needs it, fine, it becomes a need. But honestly, and while I sympathize over a similar scare (that thankfully had nothing come out of it), it's something she wants. It's a question of terminology, yes, but it's a purely American conceit that every thing an American -wants- is something that an American -needs- and has a -right- to. Like when I used to see commericials that said "You have a right to the internet".
*-*
Unfortunately, people will always read whatever they want from any circumstance. Case in point:
The store I manage has a regular shoplifter. She's beligerant when she's caught, and she walks out the door because she knows the law and that we can't charge her if she doesn't leave with anything (we're not a conceal state). So finally, we told her she cannot shop any more, not because of her shoplifting (which we cannot accuse her of), but because her attitude and choice of language is inappropriate for a store that sells to children (our primary customers). We have been slapped with a lawsuit because she happened to be black, and we are "refusing to sell to African-Americans". To her lawyer, this is a cut-and-dried case of racism, even though we have witnesses to both our conversation with her and what we told her.
There are people reading this article from a "interesting story" point of view, the "this is a clear case of men treating women like shit" point of view, and others as "I'm just an angry person and you've given me a focus". I see you all having your perceptions and arguing yours with a passion and ignoring and deriding everyone elses.
Remember: Everyone has a right to their opinion. And denying someone else's because they don't agree with yours is exactly what you're accusing them of being.
*-*
Also, please don't accuse people of things without talking to them. The one nurse that rushed you off the phone refused to let you talk to the doctor. Did you ask for someone else? Maybe -her- morals were blocking you from a doctor that would have issued the pill to you.
I'm beginning to ramble, so I'm out. I hope it works out for you, I really do. I just really wanted to say some of those things. Just think before you say things, people. If everyone just stopped and did that, everyone would be happier.
Katherine
(P.S. And I reread this nine times before I posted it, so yes, I thought about it. Please, before the barrage of flames I get, reread what you say, too.- K)
Wow, I didn't think this kind of thing really happened anymore. Makes me wish I lived in Canada. Here is a site that gives equivalencies for pills, just find one that has a similar composition to yours- http://www.plannedparenthood.org...how-to-
take.htm
Also, if that doesn't work, and you can have a copper iud inserted within 5 days, that would work, too.
Good luck.
The Hippocratic Oath begins: FIRST DO NO HARM. Refusing BB, given the medical history she has chosen to share with us, is quite likely to cause harm. Where were their alleged morals when they chose to break their oath?
Sorcaeden,
Fetuses are parasites. Period. They offer nothing to their host but live from the hosts body.
The children that I chose to have is more of a symbiotic relationship. They give me love and I take care of them but a fetus is just that...a fetus. It is a parasite plain and simple.
You cannot count on getting EC in Canada, because although it is legally OTC here, the pharmacist will refuse to provide. You cannot count on getting EC because the doctor, too, can refuse to provide. Here's an example, just one, from a site I'm not going to link: "The Manitoba Pharmaceutical Association voted at their annual meeting (2000) to allow pharmacists to refuse to dispense medication if they object to the use of the drug on moral grounds. In addition, pharmacists will be not required to refer a woman to another pharmacy." And a follow-up, six years later, in April 2006, showing they're still being pricks:
CMAJ • April 11, 2006; 174 (. doi:10.1503/cmaj.060303.
© 2006 CMA Media Inc. or its licensors
Manitoba pharmacists' association clarifies Plan B regulations
Laura Eggertson
After meeting with the Manitoba government official responsible for privacy, the Manitoba Pharmaceutical Association is reminding its members that women requesting the levonorgestrol (Plan B) morning-after pill have the right to remain anonymous.
In a Feb. 2 notice to pharmacy managers and a "Commentary" released jointly with Manitoba's Ombudsman, the association points out that Schedule 2 medication like levonorgestrol "does not require that a pharmacist record individuals' personal health information."
In April 2005, the association, along with other provincial associations, distributed the Canadian Pharmacists Association's (CPhA) program on levonorgestrol to its members. That program included a screening form to record sensitive personal information, such as the names and addresses of women wishing to purchase levonorgestrol.
A news article last year (CMAJ 2005;173:1435-6) revealed that many pharmacists across the country were requesting and storing that information before dispensing the drug, posing a potential barrier to access.
In a meeting between Manitoba Ombudsman Irene Hill and the association's registrar, "We talked about the current situation and what we could do to clarify that," Hill said. During the meeting, she said she emphasized that personal information should not be collected unless absolutely necessary. Other than the need to collect names and addresses for insurance purposes, "there's no requirement for the information to be collected." The joint commentary reflects this stand.
Ontario's Privacy Commissioner also met with the pharmacists' regulatory body in that province in early December 2005. The Ontario association quickly developed new guidelines and instructed its members not to use the CPhA screening form.
The Manitoba association believes its documents were clear to begin with on the issue of pharmacists asking for this information, says Ron Guse, the registrar. "Our position is that the pharmacist may need that information, but the patient doesn't have to supply it."
Nor does the pharmacist have to dispense the medication, he added. The Winnipeg Free Press has reported that women in Steinbach, Man., have limited access to pharmacies that dispense levonorgestrol. Two pharmacies in Steinbach refused to dispense levonorgestrol when a Free Press reporter declined to answer screening questions.
If pharmacists are not going to provide the medication, "they need to provide information for the woman seeking it" on how to get it, says Hill.
In Massachusetts, the state's pharmacy board upheld the complaint of 3 women who sued Wal-Mart Inc. for refusing to stock and sell levonorgestrol in its 48 pharmacies. Their suit argued that the retail chain violated a Massachusetts' law that requires pharmacies to stock all "commonly prescribed medications."
In response to the suit, Wal-Mart had said that it has a corporate policy of declining to carry emergency contraception. Following the ruling, a spokesman said the company would comply.
Wal-Mart Canada Corp. in Mississauga (Ontario) did not respond to repeated calls requesting an interview about whether they stock levonorgestrol in the Canadian stores.
-30-
(Came over from Boing Boing)
Read the story and the comments BB and I share your outrage.
I'm a lawyer and I'd ignore all of the hair-spltting comments about whether you have a right to complain or sue. Interesting, but kind of irrelevant.
As far as I'm concerned, you ought to file written complaints against the hospitals and physicians involved and let the State Medical Board fight it out. It won't cost you more than a 39 cent stamp for each complaint. And post the responses on your blog.
And I agree you shouldn't have had to lie about rape, even if that's what the nurses were suggesting, because you or your b.f. could have possibly been prosecuted by the self-same guardians of our morality.
I hope someone reading this can benefit from this link:
http://www.getthepill.com/
This website will prescribe EC and fax the prescription to your local pharmacy within 2-8 hours.
Sorry David this is not going to help anyone.
Read:
The fee for our service is $24.95. You will not be charged this fee if you are not approved for a prescription. This fee covers the review of your medical information and the
**submission of the prescription to your requested local US pharmacy.**
Our fee does NOT include the cost of the medicine at your local pharmacy."
Them sending your information and prescription to a pharmacy puts the women right back at square one, if the pharmacy/pharmacist refuses to provide.
This is the first time in a very, very long time that I've read a blog and found myself becoming truly enraged. I can't believe those retarded little pea-brained pompous snot-nosed rat fuckers can get away with refusing such a thing! What the hell kind of backwoods, holier-than-thou codswallop are those idiots taught? I would have thought that if someone had enough brainpower to plough their way through medical school, they'd actually be intelligent enough to realize the sheer stupidity of their actions.
UGH!
I just wish I could do something about it.
Gee, your misfortune not to have been a married woman who was raped. Then you would have really hit the jackpot.
Did you get the sense that the male nurse was trying to encourage you to claim rape in order to meet the criteria?
Moly motherfucking Jesus that is one infuriating story. I think if it were me, I'd go off on at least one of the "a bit old-fashioned" doctors and say something like, "that's right, I'm a dirty little whore who blows sailors for two bucks apiece. I'll do you, too, but it'll cost you four hundred bucks. You can give me my goddamned scrip now, or I can run off to the nearest blue state for an abortion next month. Your choice, but if I have to choose the latter alternative, I will do everything I possibly can to drag your name through as much mud as I can find. How about it?"
These "old-fashioned" people who think it's still 1950 piss me off so much - and did I mention I'm a guy?
Truly a dark ages in the U.S. when the separation between church and state is not enforced.
The cities are solidly democratic, the suburbs are split, the party in power has achieved its dominance by appealing to the rural voter who is in general less educated and tends to be more of a churchgoer.
Unfortunately this has introduced religon into politics and people feel free to inflict their religious beliefs on others.
Sorry about the trouble you had. It is no excuse in this day and age for a woman not to have easy access to EC.
I work in the medical field and I see both sides of the story. I practice in Texas, which has different laws than Ohio.
For one, EC can cause a fertilized ovum not to implant. So in a way, it is like a "mini-abortion". This information can be found at this site which describes the clinical pharmacology of EC.
http://www.go2planb.com/PDF/PlanBPI.pdf
"Emergency contraceptives are not effective if the woman is already pregnant. Plan B is
believed to act as an emergency contraceptive principally by preventing ovulation or
fertilization (by altering tubal transport of sperm and/or ova). In addition, it may inhibit
implantation (by altering the endometrium). It is not effective once the process of
implantation has begun."
EC can make the fallopian tube and the uterus "inhospitable" to implantation, thus the fertilized ovum cannot implant and form a placenta. This is why some practitioners do not prescribe it, because it may violate their religious beliefs.
I personally do not let my own beliefs interfere with my patient's care, but sadly, others do.
Secondly, in the state of Ohio, emergency rooms are not required to dispense EC. I found that information here:
http://www.guttmacherinstitute.o...n%20protocol%
22
If you scroll down the chart, you will see that ER do not have to prescribe it, it is up to the individual practitioner.
It is an unfotunate law in your state, but it is the law and therefore the practitioners and the ER's will not get into trouble by not offering it.
Call your local representative or senator and try to initiate legislation to change the law.
Hope everything works out ok for you!
hey, I just wanted extend my sympathies and share in your outrage and frustration!! I rarely leave comments, but, I just have to, I'm so infuriated by your plight. My wife and I have one child, she almost died giving birth, due to the danger of a second kid, plus, we do not want to add to more ppl on this planet, another pregnancy could be disastrous. she too had problems with the pill and is now on a low dose Nuvaring... I have no idea what the status of EC is my area, but, I need to find out!! I haven't read any of the other comments, but if anybody moralizes or gives their red state bullshit an airing here, you (insert immature name calling here) can just take it somewhere else!
peace
If you cannot find Plan B, you should know this:
Any contraceptive that one uses normally can be used in emergency cases if no Plan B is avaialable. Just use any contraceptive pills that you have at home.
Start by taking 2 pills together after the intercourse. Then repeat having 2 more pills each 12 hours for 2 days. Some puking might be in your future, but it's better than having a kid!
HOLY SHIT.
OK, I didn't read the other comments so this may have already been said:
To my knowledge, EC is nothing more than an insanely strong BC pill. Works the same way: prevents conception. I know someone who got EC from her doctor, and all they gave her was 2 packs (2 months worth) of regular BC, and she had to take 6 at a time for x amount of time...like a day or two. I wish I had an M.D. so I could help you.
She did that, and no baby. She was also nauseous and sick from it, but that's less painful than birth.
So sorry for your drama, that really disturbs me.
Hey anonymous coward: I didn't bother reading the rest of your post, only this part: "Chemical contraceptives of any kind remain potent and active in the body for about three months after you stop taking them."
Yeah? Explain why I got pregnant exactly two weeks after I stopped taking the pill.
This happened to me July of 2004. My boy friend nad I had a condom break and I was totally freaked out. I was 32 and unmarried with no kids, and a professor at the local college.
My physican refused to give me the perscription on "Moral" grounds and althought it took another 24 hours to get her partner to perscribe it, I surfed the web to find all kinds of garbage on EC being the ABORTION PILL. THIS IS NOT SO!!!! The abortion pill ABORTS a pregnancy. EC causes the irritation to the lining of the uterus so that implantation CANNOT occur.
Well, to make matter more difficult, the first pharmacist said that my period should start within 48 hours. (which it didn't) After taking a PG test and it was negative, I called the phamacists again and this time a new pharmacists said: Oh! Your period won't start until it's supposed to!
Quite obviously, the pharmacists didn't have a clue how this was supposed to work.
Thankfully I wasn't pregnant, but living in Houston, TX, the last thing i thought I would encounter in the Montrose neighborhood was MORALITY issues associated with my trying to be a responsible adult.
I am so sorry this happened to you too!
Oddly enough, this was the last topic in my women's studies class. Wal-Mart and other asshat pharmacies can get away with not selling Plan B by simply not keeping it in stock and then saying "Oh, it'll take a week to get it in so you will have to wait." And people living cities that only have Catholic hospitals have problems with the prescription thing because it's "immoral" are screwed - I think that was/is the problem in Duluth (MN) because the Catholic hospital system wanted to take over the only secular hospital. That's just a load of crap.
What's wrong with these licensing boards that people can claim to be doctors and pharmacists when they'll tell you in no uncertain terms that they're not willing to do their jobs? If you've got a problem with giving people their pills then you should get a job in a non-pill-dispensing field. You can't pull this crap in other jobs. You can't get a job at Wendy's and then refuse to give people their burgers because you believe meat is murder.
http://ec.princeton.edu/question...tions/
dose.html
Pill brands, doses, and instructions for using birth control pills as emergency contraception. It may not help BB now, but spread the word to as many people as often as you can. Find doctors who will prescribe these birth control pills (whether you use them or not) and keep them handy so that you have a "Plan B" that can be used right under the noses of the asshats who won't prescribe the same medicine under a different pill name.
"You can't get a job at Wendy's and then refuse to give people their burgers because you believe meat is murder."
At Wendys they serve meat--it is the reasonable expectation of service. Abortions are not a reasonable expectation of service from a physician unless you're at an abortion clinic.
I just got EC this last morning no problem from my campus health center. I can get Plan B for you, I will front the $10 dollars, and mail it to you. Will you get it in time? If this is possible, email me at revtango@gmail.com and I will see what I can do for you.
Wow, my wife is a Pharmacist in Canada and while they do ask a number of questions concerning when you had sex(after 72 hours the effectiveness is reduced) they cannot refuse to give the pill under any circumstances.
the fact that you had to go through those hoops is appaling
John- firstly, we're talking about EC, not abortion. Not the same thing. If a physician doesn't know that then they're too thick to be one.
Secondly, abortion is a medical procedure and is part of a doctor's job. If s/he can't perform that part of their job then they should find another career.
If your job is to dispence medicines, then you have to dispence medicines.
"Abortions are not a reasonable expectation of service from a physician unless you're at an abortion clinic."
If you're willing to give a pill to somebody if they're raped or married, your decision is based upon moral judgement of their situation rather than medical.
EC is definitely not an abortion pill as stated many times above. I am a provider at a federally funded hospital in which abortion services are neither offered nor covered. Using Plan B (levonorgestrel) is no more an abortive remedy than regular BC pills. In fact, just today I wrote for Plan B for a patient in your situation. Boyfriend, 2 kids, doesn't want another. Sex last night sans rubber. I asked her no other questions than if she had any vaginal or abdominal pain or bleeding.
I have no problem with EC. I don't know why anyone would. I am a very religious Christian male who would never condone (but will provide information concerning) abortion (except in case of rape or incest) but Plan B is entirely different.
I didn't read all the posts but yes normal BCs can be used as EC, they just may make you more nauseated and ill feeling. (Take benadryl or phenergan with them to ward off this.) Dosing and schedule will vary with the type of pill you are using.
As another side effect of not reading all the posts, if in dire straits, you can call 888-NOT-2-LATE.
Or e-mail me or find another provider you like who would be willing to just phone in a script to your local pharmacy. All they need is a DEA number. The AMA ethics committee might frown on interstate drug orders, but some rules must be bent for the good of the patient regardless of what the Ivory Tower says.
Hope this helps and I know you have gotten many words of comfort and solace from your peers posting here.
Sincerely
Greg PA-C
Wow that sucks ass...I've never heard of that here in Knoxville, TN. We've got a place that will give it to you...there's a doc in there and they will give you free birth control as well as EC and condoms. Sounds like the docs in OH are a bunch of assholes...but then again...you can always have some fun though...I would have called your doctor back and told them that you've called every ER and place in a 100 mile radius and have been denied and that either they get off their sorry ass and write you a prescription to get it filled or meet you at the ER and dispense it to you themsevles.
But i'm a very confrentational person
This sucks so much. You know, there just aren't words.
I was born and raised in rural Ohio. Now I live in a large Blue State on the Left Coast. I consider myself very fortunate.
I know this probably isn't a whole lot of help now (I'm crossing my fingers that you've already gotten what you needed!), but I've seen too many of my friends have to go through very similar situations. According to the branded Ortho prescribing information, Ortho-Novum 7/7/7 has not been studied as and is not indicated for emergency contraception.
The FDA lists the following birth control pills as acceptable for EC: Ovral (2 pills), Alesse (5 pills), Nordette or Levlen (2 pills), Lo/Ovral (4 pills), Triphasil or Tri-Levlen (4 pills).
If you find a replacement for your doctor you may want to get yourself a one month supply of one of the pills listed above in case of emergency. You know that your insurance company will cover it since you've had BC filled before (just don't bother letting them in on it). Even if EC becomes OTC in January, how can you trust the pharmacies? Considering your contraceptive options, maybe a one month copay to have a backup on hand for a whole year is worthwhile. (It definitely has been for me.)
Yes Dave. In Canada pharmacists can refuse to give the morning after pill. It varies with province, but even in those provinces where the pharmacy association advices them to provide, they can opt out on conscience grounds. They can also refuse to give the woman the name of a providing pharmacy.
If you live in Canada, then you will likely be aware of this:
Last year, the Canadian Medical Assoc Journal was brought to its knees by the pharmacy assoc of Canada (proper name?) when CMAJ editor Dr. Hooey sent 12 women out across Canada to test what pharmacists were doing re the morning after pill. Hooey then wrote an article telling about the how the women were treated (not good to very bad). Before publication date, the pharmacy assoc heard about the article, called the journal's 'owners' the Canadian Medical Assoc. and the article was pulled. Hooey walked, his assistant editor walked, a new editorial board was appointed, three of them walked. It's still a cats ass trophy there, and all over the morning after pill.
You can search this on the Canadian Medical Association Journal website. Hell, it's all over google.
Privacy issues raised over Plan B: women asked for names, addresses, sexual history
Laura Eggertson and Barbara Sibbald
http://makeashorterlink.com/?D197245DD
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full ...
Ooops some corrections.
BB and (some of BB's readers): I thought you might get a laugh out of this, taken from one of the letters to the editor following the CMAJ article on Plan B dispensing in Canada (cited in my immediately preceding post). The speaker is a Canadian physician.
**No offense intended at least by me**
"Is it necessary to explain that Americans have always had an execrable undemocratic elitist socially disruptive odiously disjunctive medical system with such incompetent political system that they are the only advanced society on this planet whose health scare system has never entered the criteria of that of a civilised society? Americans cannot possibly teach anything to Canadians about the health scare system except how to destroy it even more."
thankyou for this story.
Got here through boingboing, sorry for your ordeal. You might consider updating the original post to avoid all these redundant, but well-meaning, posts regarding websites for info or pill ordering.
The comment by Hephastion early on was assholey enough for me to go to his blog and give him a little feedback. I'll probably have to wait until tomorrow to see if he allows the comment I left, in his hugo chavez post on first page. But I thought I'd post it here, too, for probably narcissistic reasons.
" 6.
Found my way here via your lovely little misogynistic comment at the now famous biting beaver blog. You’re an idiot, just to make that clear from the beginning. I mean in general, it has nothing to do with sexuality or anything like that.
But that was a really shitty thing to say, and I’m glad you didn’t gain much, if any, other webtraffic off that trolling. You can’t get pregnant, and it can be reasonably assumed that you’ve never been the other half of a pregnancy scare, either. Don’t tell me friend x had one, it ain’t the same, son. I’ve been there, and you are a fucking asshole.
I’m not going to be a homophobe and suggest all homosexuals are sex-obsessed, but you’re sure as hell not coming across as chaste and a-sexual from what I’ve seen here. In other words, you have sex. That fact, combined with you being gay, means there’s a huge (also idiotic) portion of the country that would, if you caught hiv in an encounter where the condom broke, say you should have kept your cheeks shut. I doubt you’d say they had a point, because they wouldn’t. They’d be smallminded fools, just like you are, or at least were when you decided to post that to someone facing a terrible crisis.
You are, quite frankly, in no position to judge the sexual habits of others, at least when they involve mutually consenting adults. If you can do that, what right do you have to be upset when some religious bigot judges you?"
Just to be clear, tho I hope it is, I'm only making his sexuality an issue because one would expect, or at least hope, that part of the experience of being gay would be to realize that victorian era sexual mores disguised as Christian morality are just plain wrong, and hurtful to individuals and families, if not society as a whole.
Also, I'm naturally longwinded and foulmouthed, so please don't take the swearing or length as indicative of me getting overly worked up.
Oh, and one small terminological quibble with a doctor who commented earlier. I'd quote by name but this thread is so long I can't find it easily.
Plan B's effects simply cannot be called an abortion, because of what the word means. An abortion, in medical context, means the termination of a pregnancy. Plan B prevents implantation, it prevents pregnancy. It does not, and cannot, terminate a pregnancy, at least as I understand it.
This is something I think needs to be made clearer to those who feel they have moral qualms with Plan B. Plan B is much closer to the birth control pill than an abortion, and BB's own doctor shows that there are medical professionals who'll give out birth control pills but not Plan B. Informing people won't change the minds of everyone, but at least then we can be sure the people who continue to refuse to dispense it are doing so for unambiguously misogynistic reasons. There are a (small) number of people who respect women yet oppose abortion rights, at least in theory.
Hey, JOHN, how about YOU just stick to oral sex or abstinance??? Fuckwad. I hope you get painful herpes. I hate (most) men even more now.
Here's a site with dosage of birth control pills to use as emergency contraception.
http://home.snu.edu/~dwilliam/f9...tion/
emerge.htm
1. Dear BB
You can take EC out for 5 days after! Some MDs will even go 7-10 days though the chance of it working is slim but better than an unwanted pregnancy later.
sorry you didn't know about
www.getthepill.com
They do serve OH and on weekends! you fill out the form 24/7 and they get back to you during business hours 7 days/wk. I know the MD doing the service and he is trustworthy
For Emergency contraception (EC), your pill has to be ethinyl estradiol and levonorgestrel, if it is any other estrogen and progesterone then it won't work for EC.
BUT if you do have a pill that has those components then follow the page
http://ec.princeton.edu/question.../
dose.html#dose
However, Plan B is better. It is only progesterone and has twice the efficacy (works twice as well) and has half the side effects.
If you do get pregnant, you should sue the hospitals, MD, etc. though I guess you never went in so perhaps there is no case..
=(
hopefully all will work out, but do get Plan B into your hands so that if you have another accident, you will be able to take it ASAP. The sooner you take it, the better it works.
I think there are many people in the medical profession who have been cowed into refusing to perform abortions, prescribe RU-486, prescribe EC, and now in some places even to prescribe normal birth control. This is because the anti-reproductive-choice folks have made a lot of noise, bombed some clinics, and even murdered a few doctors. The people who deny you access to your legal choices lose nothing by that act: Nobody will picket their office, no bombs, no bullets, not even any complaints or adverse publicity.
If you don't want to live in this kind of society, then you have to do something about it! If I was put in that situation, the very first thing I would do is to privately inform the person impeding your choice that there would be severe consequences for them. Something along the lines of: "Of course, you have the legal right to deny me this medical option. But if you do, then my partner, all of my many friends, and I will see to it that your life becomes a living hell and your practice of medicine in this town will be finished." Then follow through on that. File complaints with every possible medical, nursing, pharmacy board. Put up flyers. Start a word-of-mouth campaign. Get some friends together to picket his house, church, etc.
Another point: Go to the doctor's office, Urgent Care, or ER and tell them you are there for EC. (Not for a "consultation", "evaluation", etc.) If the doctor refuses to give you the EC or a prescription you can actually fill in your town (IE. for a month pack of standard progesterone-only BC pills), then you confront him or her with: "EC is the only acceptable treatment for my problem. If you refuse to treat me, then please document that on my chart." Then when you are leaving, tell the desk staff that the doctor refused to treat you and walk out the door without paying. If they think you should pay for no treatment, then they can try to sue you. (They won't, because it is obvious they would lose the case.)
The idea that anyone would have to jump through hoops to get a legal and necessary medication is despicable.
Whether you jump through one hoop or a hundred, doesn't matter. You should be able to get your meds ON THE FIRST TRY.
Pharmacists do have to take tests to become pharmacists and they do have an obligation to reporting obvious attempts at obtaining Schedule II drugs for street sale, but that's where it ends. Dispensing a non-narcotic, non-addicting, soon-to-be-OTC preventative medication is not in the same sport, let alone the same ballpark.
Women's sexuality is not up for debate. Women's sexuality is not up for referendum. Women get to decide if they'll have sex, with whom, and how often. Either dispense the damn drug, or find someone who will. Immediately.
How I fear for America. There is an option bb, in Canada, sadly too late for you, but not for others in the same plight. Go to www.planb.ca (the Canadian site of Paladin online drug store).
As noted, the drug levonorgestrel is sold under the brand name Plan B and since 2004 has been available at pharmacies across Canada without any prescription from a doctor. It's behind the counter so you'll have to ask the pharmacist for it. plan B is also available in most health clinics (CLSCs in Quebec). However, some pharmacists in some cities may refuse it, and they should be boycotted.
On the site, you can use the Health Clinic Locator on the site to find a health clinic nearest you (in Canada) that carries plan B. There is also a 72 hour calculator.
Within the next couple of weeks, a blog, colloquy, will be up and running. It will exist to get timely information to anyone like you who simply needs a little help.
Best,
jm
**RECORD IT NEXT TIME** Remember the guy with the story about trying to quit AOL? He got major media because he recorded the call. You should record the call then post the transcript and the MP3.
Yes EC doesn't cause an actual abortion, however, it can cause the uterus to reject a fertilized ovum. Some people consider life to start at the moment of conception, and not when it implants and forms a placenta. That is why some practitioners will not prescride it based on their moral beliefs.
If a woman has already ovulated and then has sex, and the sperm unites with the egg, then she will have a "fertilized ovum" that already has cell division within it trying to "burrow" into the lining of the uterus. The EC can cause the lining of the uterus to "reject" this attempt, and thus it dies.
Medically, a pregnancy starts when the blastocyte has burrowed into the lining of the uterus and forms a primitive placenta, which secretes BhCG (the hormone that shows positive on pregnancy test). From now on, if the pregnancy is lost, it is termed an abortion. It can be a spontaneous or induced.
However, some say that the "pregnancy" starts at the moment of conception, and since the EC can cause this product of conception to die, then it is to them an "abortion".
So yes, some people believe that causing a fertilized egg not to implant and die is killing a human being.
Either way you look at it, it is much safer and less risk to do it this way (EC way), rather than wait until the pregnancy advances and have a more invasive procedure.
I have prescribed EC many times in the past, and I always inform my patients before I prescribe it how it REALLY works. It just doesn't prevent ovulation, but also can prevent a product of conception from implanting in the uterus. If they are okay with that, then I write the prescription.
And before any one rakes me over the coals for that, as a practitioner, I have to always give my patients information on how any drug works in their body (and side effects) before I prescribe it to them. It just isn't for ethical reasons, but also LEGAL reasons for it. You would be surprised what we can get sued for.
I am a Scottish woman recently moved to Florida - I have gone through the most barbaric experiences here relating to the termination of a very early pregnancy, I wont go into this in depth, it isnt necessary or right to do so. However I never thought I would witness such bullshit, such disgusting treatment, such outdated practices, as I did here in the good old US of A.
18 months on and I am still shocked and still hurt but I will not feel the shame they tried to make me feel.
I'll be thinking of you in the coming weeks BB, try not to worry too much, best of luck to you, stephanie.
Hi from Germany,
the doctors might have thought
"how dares the inferior being called "woman" to have sex for her personal pleasure as the man does?
It's the man's divine right to have sex with her if HE decides to do so and it's her duty to give birth to children in exchange for experiencing pleasure."
Your trip to the middle-ages is the most revolting act of systemized male aggression towards women in "civilized countries" I heard about for quite a while.
I hope that you are well and that this experience doesn't harm your and your partners everyday- and sexlife.
Christopher.
this is just a reply to the comments, not so much the actual entry. i can understand that emergency contraception is needed in a modern day society and i accept it and the use of it.
it's interesting to see some of the replies to this are mostly male oriented. "fucking bastards" and other replies directed towards men being the evil of this story. i think it's odd when females want this to be an equal world but give it to men. every response makes it sound like there aren't any female doctors in the world. my primary doctor is male, but within the building there are 3 female doctors. i know 2 of them wouldn't perscribe plan b, because i have friends that have tried to get it from them and they denied it. my doctor will. he's male.
also, the only person that agreed with the poster that she talked to in the medical field, and appreciated what she was doing, was a male nurse.
i read a lot of this:"...they cannot refuse to give the pill under any circumstances."
"...deny you medication you need."
neither or any statement saying that emergency contraceptive is a medication that cannot be denied is 100% wrong. under the hippocratic oath, the first rule states that no medication can be deined if a patient would be in harms way without it. ec can be denied because it's not a neccessary medication, unless you're experiencing abdominal pain or anything related to the pregnancy. technically, by the hippocratic oath, ec shouldn't be perscribed at all unless either patient is sick:
" But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God."
i just thought it was interesting to see that people who are saying it's a man's world are the ones who make it a mans world. it was also suprising to see that most people don't look up any facts before they say anything. i'm not trying to talk down to people, i just think it was wrogn of them to give you a false hope or make you feel like you were cheated when you weren't. if this happens again, just know that you're going to have a hard time and know that you don't have a right at this medication any more than i have a right at viagra.
MOVE TO CANADA
Emergency Birthcontrol or "Plan B" as they call it here is freely available Over-The-Counter.
NO Hastle. NO Questions.
JUST FREEDOM!
How do you not have a right to Viagra Davin? Have physicians refused to write you a script for it? Have pharmacists refused to fill the script? Do you live in a country where Viagra and like drugs are not allowed?
Please. Inform me.
##
Just so no-one is misinformed by the above comment from Free-to-choose; I'll say it again:
No. Canadian women cannot count on getting Plan B. And in most instances they must fill out a form with personal, invasive questions. The pharmacist can refuse to provide on consience grouds, refuse to provide if you don't fill out the form, just plain refuse. So can a physician. I hope you don't wait until you need Plan B to find this out on your own.
Hi from France !
Well this story is kinda terrible, but as a general rule there are always "backwards" people and u just have to cope with that when they have some kind of responsabilities.
Can't u just plain lie to them and tell them you're married ? I guess they won't ask you a proof (i mean a certificate and all) for such a small prescription.
In a crowded place I think they will just want to treat your case, and not necessarily go through your entire life to see if The Lord gives them permission to prescribe the Devil's pill.
Anyway i don't know US medication system so maybe i'm dreaming
I hope you can find a way through this
J.
i do not know you.
your story is touching and terrifying. i hope on your behalf that there is a satisfying outcome for you and your family.
please continue to share your story. putting a human face on things sometimes brings our f*cked up "kids today" and elected officials to some kind of understanding.
I think it's terrible that you haven't been able to get EC and certainly no one should be able to stand in your way of getting it. This doesn't seem like a feminism issue, though - lots of people, men and women, are denied prescriptions. The problem was not that you're a woman; the problem is that you're not free. None of us are. Our government witholds medication from people of both sexes at its discretion. You should be free to make the choice for yourself.
Keep in mind that freedom is a two way street. As long as you campaign against people's freedom to create and use pornography, *they* will campaign against your freedom with regards to family planning.
I wish you the best of luck in controlling your own life, and the worst of luck in your efforts to control mine. Take care.
www.getthepill.com could still have helped... so far as I can tell from the post and comments it was a matter of finding a doctor to prescribe EC, not so much a matter of finding a pharmacy to dispense it.
Finding a link to this post on my friends list this morning gave me quite a chill. The reason for this is that I had the same experience on Friday night (with regard to a condom breaking).
My own story differs from yours however as I live in the state of MA and fortunately had no trouble procuring Plan B. Not having ever been in a situation like this before, I had a fairly restless night on Friday, I was scared!
The alarm went off just before 8am and my boyfriend started calling local pharmacies to find out what we had to do to acquire the drug. (We'd found a handful of pharmacies that would give it out listed on the web the night before). You can actually call 1-800-not-too-late to get a list of places in your area.
Amazingly one of the pharmacies was in our town and a quick phone call (made by my boyfriend as I was in no condition to talk on the phone) and we were told to show up and that there would be an interview.
I have to say that the word "interview" threw me for a loop and I was a sobbing wreck by the time we arrived at the pharmacy. Fortunately I need not have worried, in this case the "interview" consisted of filling out a quick form. (Name, address, phone number, was I raped? when did the unprotected sex occur? and would I like to buy some condoms?).
Nothing about being married (which I'm not) and the pharmacist didn't even ID me so really I could have written anything on the form. While I hope to never have to repeat this experience. I am reminded how lucky I am to live in a liberal state and very pleased that come Jan 1, women in other states will have equal access to this drug.
I chose not to put the pills on my insurance as I didn't particularly want the information recorded however I will be informing my doctor about it when next I see her. I will also be asking her her own policy and whether she would have prescribed the drug had a prescription been necessary. If she answers incorrectly, I will be finding a new doctor. I would suggest that you do the same.
Best of luck to you.
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Eric! Thanks so much for that post!
If I'd been writing satire I could never have written dialogue which so incisively and vividly displays what delusion and idiocy pass for logic and ethics in the pornsturbator community.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
Wow.... Your story is just unbelievable. I guess this is why I avoid the mid-West. How many months until January? All this is being endured because Christians are so.... compassionate? I hope you don't get pregnant. Gee whiz, what has it come down to? Pennyroyal tea?
This has been suggested, but I will add my 2 cents. Why don't you visit tcoyf.com? My husband & I use the Billings method and we have ONE child. That is it. It is extremely effective AND you don't have to worry if you are pregnant or going to get pregnant because you will not be ignorant. You will be educated about your own body. Fertility control should be known by every single woman! The fact that most women AND DOCTORS in this country don't even know BASIC, BASIC knowledge about a woman's cycle is just disgusting! Talk about anti-feminism! I am telling you, it was probably a man who came up with the idea of shooting women full of hormones to prevent pregnancy. The best part, they don't get any of the consequences like you had, the possible cancer (http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/
Risk/oral-contraceptives) that comes with it in the later years. In any case, if you DO learn your own fertility cycles you will not have to rely on anyone else.
I'm sure a lot of people have shared their similar experiences after over 400 comments, but here's mine:
I'm a 19 year old kid living in San Francisco. I am not on birth control and never have been. I'm in a monogamous relationship, but have had a rather... risky sexual past.
On a Wednesday night, we had an accident. On Thursday morning I went to a Safeway next to my house. They informed me that they deliberately staff someone licensed to provide Plan B over the counter at all hours of the day. They are a 24 hour pharmacy and ALWAYS have someone there to give it out. I went to the pharmacy, said "Hi, I want Plan B." They said, "Great! Do you have insurance to cover part of the cost?" I handed them my insurance card, they said it would be about 15 minutes. I did some grocery shopping, picked up some snacks, returned and a nurse sat me down and said "We don't recommend using Plan B as your only birth control method because if used repeatedly, it may decrease your chances of conceiving in the future! Read the instructions carefully and if you have any questions, give us a call. We'll be here all night!" She smiled, handed me a bag, I paid $20 and proceeded to the checkout with my groceries.
I guess it just goes to show you that it's all in location, location, location. How unfair is that?
The end.
Radical Catholic Mom - The fact that most women AND DOCTORS in this country don't even know BASIC, BASIC knowledge about a woman's cycle
That's great -- if a woman has a regular cycle. Before birth control pills, my "cycle" was anywhere from 21 days to 45 days, and any time inbetween. I never knew when I would start. At that time, I had never had sex -- but if I had, knowing my 'cycle' would have done didly squat, because there was no such animal.
Don't assume that every woman's body works the same. "If I can do it, you can do it," is the biggest bag of bullshit around.
.
Hey, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, too, and there is NO issue getting it here.
I worked at a Catholic hospital and saw an ED doc prescribe it for someone in your exact situation.
Plan B is CALLED Plan B because it's to be used when your PLAN A for contraception fails.
Doh!
For all the griping I do about this area I live in, at least we don't have to deal with these kind of issues.
I'm sorry that you did.
It was inexcusable.ss
Okay--for future reference: Everyone who wants to keep some "Plan B" on hand or get it quickly: Find a doc who will prescribe you a month's worth of Ovrette. Take 10 tablets on day one. Take 10 tablets 12 hours later. I know. 10 tabs suck, but then you don't have the hassle of the whole "emergency contraception" issue. I don't know of any other oral contraceptive that would work, because they all contain estrogen (which makes me hurl).
A few more thoughts: for anyone who doesn't want children (or any more children), find a doctor who WILL do a tubal ligation. I got my tubes tied (my choice) at age 26. I asked my doctor to do the procedure at 25, but he asked me to think about it for a whole year. When I returned the following year, he was surprised, but he had recorded his advice in my records and consented. I was single, never married, no kids. I've NEVER regretted that decision. EVER.
The procedure itself isn't that horrible, but it does take longer to recover than your friends will tell you. Your stomach will make laughing painful for about a week, and you will spent at least one day bent over like an old crone. Usually, a general anaesthetic is used, so you will be sleepy for about 24-36 hours after surgery. In spite of everything, I had the surgery on a Friday and was back at work on Monday. Not happy, but back at work.
I'm also a big fan of Depo-Provera, which I was on for close to two years to regulate (eliminate) my out-of-control-anemia-causing periods. I've been off it for about 3 months now, and I'm going to sneak back on it, osteopenia be hanged. I felt SO much better overall on it.
I took the birth control pill (Ortho tri-cyclen) for about 6 months, and it made me vomit daily and gave me weekly (or more frequent) migraines. I hated that. It also didn't reduce my periods by so much as a single drop.
I suspect I'm lucky--all of my gynecologists are older than I am by 10 years or so, and my providers since 1995 have been at the Veterans' Administration. You just can't rattle an older VA doc, and they don't get all moral and preachy (at least none of the ones I've met) and uptight. The doc who did my tubal ligation (I was still civilian then) was 50-plus years old, too. He'd figured things out.
I wonder how hard it would be to get viagra at those hospitals?
Do they make men justify why they such need a medication? Are they asked if they are married in order to get it?
Zee must accept zee place in life. As long as you lif in der Vaterland, you vill be das brood mare.
Zee uterus und zee eggs, zhey belong to Der Vaterland!
Heil Bush, and Breeed baby, Breeeed!
"Plan B" is available over the counter for women over 18. Call pharmacies in your area until you find one that is not run by a "good christian" ass and you'll get your EC.
Whoa. Stumbled onto all this from truthout. I make my living with words, so it’s been an interesting sensation to be reduced to expletives. bb, the situation you found yourself in is just appalling.
I had a broken condom incident 15 years ago, and have a 14-year-old daughter who is absolutely the light of my life. Having said that, I will also say without any hesitation at all that the outcome depended quite a lot on luck and circumstance. Taking the pregnancy to term and raising that child could just as easily gone terribly wrong. And my point is that NO ONE is in a position to make that determination for you, or for any woman. Anyone who takes it upon themselves to dictate something so profoundly personal is not only presumptuous, but most likely totally ignorant about the consuming nature of motherhood. Not only is it consuming, it’s forever. No one has the right to dictate to you whether you should have to engage in the process, or to dictate criteria you must meet to be worthy of exercising control over your reproductive capacity.
So for the man who said something about doing the time if you do the crime, let me congratulate him for being so understanding with his girlfriend. I’m sure if she says, honey, I can’t have sex because I might get pregnant, he’ll be just fine with it.
For the man who was so certain that the point of sex is for the procreative miracle, I say, let’s take that to its logical extension. For those of you who want to have sex but wish to remain childless, sorry. No sex for you. Too old? Can’t get pregnant anymore? Nope, sorry. Infertile? So sorry, but you can’t have sex. It’s all about making babies and you don’t fit the criteria.
For the man who maintained that bb had a want, but not a need, that kind of argument was advanced by Justice Byron White in the dissenting opinion of Roe v. Wade, in which he argued that abortion was about the woman’s convenience. This stance does nothing but reveal an incredible callousness about the extent to which a woman’s life is subsumed by the lives of her children. If she’s ready and willing, fine. Otherwise, who the hell is anyone else to dictate that she must? Often, in the case of failed birth control, the raising is done only by the mother, without any help from dad or by those compassionate conservative beacons of moral purity.
I fear for my beautiful 14-year-old daughter. I can see that her reproductive choices, and her reproductive health, are both in jeopardy. We do live in a third-world country and we are being taking over by an American Taliban. I fear it’s only going to get worse. How do we fight back? Make lots and lots of noise. Perhaps, as some of the people posting here have suggested, a lawsuit won’t have a legal leg to stand on. But public opinion is a powerful tool. You have a forum here and lots of support. Make the most of it, if you feel that you can take on the task. These incidents can mobilise the public - if the public hears about them.
I hope it all worked out for you.
O.K., that's completely fucked. jesus. my sympathies.
Starwatcher,
FYI, I hear this from women ALL the time. The irony is that it is chemicals that assume all women are the same. And if they are not, darn it, they WILL make women the same! There is no such thing as a "normal" cycle. Every woman is different. The reality is you learn about your cycle. Every cycle I have EVER charted of my own has NEVER BEEN THE SAME. That is nature's way. Like I said, it has been a male establishment that has fed us a bunch of b.s. that women are "abnormal" and therefore, cannot figure out basic information about when they will ovulate or when their period will come. I am still breastfeeding. Talk about irregular and abnormal cycles!
I recommend you look up NFP in your area. I learned mine at the local hospital by two female RNs. All of whom also had "irregular" cycles. I talked my doctor into attending and it changed her life! She now recommends it to other women!
Your comment is a reflection again of the ignorance I was talking about. I don't blame you. How the hell are you to know when in all likelihood your teachers AND your doctor also have never learned. Sigh. If anyone is interested in learning where they can find a class you can shoot me an email and I would be happy to try and find something for you.
BB, the reason I write this is not to draw attention from your experience. My point is to encourage you to take matters into your own hands without having to dump chemicals into your body. I encourage you to find teachers in your area who can help you. The reality is that women CANNOT get pregnant every day of the month. Once you learn your cycle, you will be educated to see what your body tells you. If you were in your fertile period of the month and the condom broke, then you would know you needed to panic. But if you knew that you were in the period of infertility which is most of the month, then you would not have to worry. Right now, you are at the mercy of chemicals and other people. Why not truly empower yourself?
Just my 2 cents.
Good luck with this! Sounds like a terrible ordeal. I had no idea it was this difficult to get EC.
Radical Catholic Mom - It comes down to choice, again. Your comment "take matters into your own hands without having to dump chemicals into your body" suggests that you think chemicals are, in and of themselves, bad at all times, and that it is infinitely preferable for a woman to know her own fertility cycle.
In this, I see just a different style of black-and-white thinking. Yes, chemicals are bad -- for some women. Millions of others have absolutely no side effects whatsoever. Yes, knowing one's fertility would be a good thing -- but it may be incidental to what the woman wants to gain.
In my case, knowing my fertility would have made no difference, because I was mentally miserable for about 50% of the time, from the age of 11 until I got the pill at 24. After I finished a period, I had about 10 days when I could be sure I wouldn't start. Then I began to wait and wonder and worry, never knowing when "it" would happen, if I would wake up with bloody underwear or, worse, get up from my seat in school and discover that my skirt was blotched. (I never started cramping until the second day.) And this waiting period varied from 10 days to 3 weeks, during which time I was too nervous to plan ahead for any fun actvites because I never knew what my body would be doing.
So, for me, fertility was a secondary consideration -- I was not yet having sex. The pill was FREEDOM; I knew when I would bleed, and how long it would last. I was no longer at the mercy of an wildly irregular and inconsistent cycle.
So let's not beat the "natural cycle = good / unnatural chemicals = bad" drum too loudly. It is never that black and white, and every woman is different, with different reasons for choosing one method over the other.
I have no idea whether anyone else has made this point, so please excuse me if I'm reiterating something that has already been said.
If the position of the doctors had been that they flat-out would not prescribe EC, then, although I would disagree strongly with their beliefs, I would still - very reluctantly - respect their right to hold and act on them.
However, any doctor who is willing to prescribe EC for a woman who has been raped or who is married loses the right to play the "But I believe that tiny insensate speck of cells is a human life that needs protecting!" card. If those are the criteria, then they are not claiming exemption on grounds of morality, they are making judgements about the lifestyles of their patients and deciding who _deserves_ these drugs.
I have no idea what the official US position is on doctors who act this way. I know that in the UK, where I live and practice, the General Medical Council explicitly states that it is _not_ acceptable for doctors to make decisions based on lifestyle judgements. It seems to me that you would have a strong case for making a complaint against the various ERs who had this policy.
Now, of course, theory is one thing and practice another. In practice, I can picture that what would happen is that nobody would ever be willing to *admit* that any physicians from their hospital were doing such a thing, oh, dear, me, no. You'd get a whole lot of expensive and tiresome runaround and be unable to prove anything.
But I did want to say that if you did want to lodge a complaint against any of those judgemental f*ckwits - well, that would be the basis for your case. They are _not_ refusing to prescribe EC on the basis of their beliefs about the drug itself, since they are clearly willing to prescribe it to at least some women - they are refusing it solely on the basis of a lifestyle judgement. And it might well be worth finding out whether there is something, somewhere, in US guidance to physicians, that explicitly forbids this.
Sometimes, despite the fact that my country sucks, I am glad to be living in the UK. At least we can get EC without jumping through those hoops, even if we go to a Pharmacy (drug store) or doctor to get it.
You have my sympathies.
Phil.
it is chauvinism. It is someone looking at your life and deciding if you are worth the trouble of their help. It is a judgement of your person. It is someone looking at you and saying I don't find you worthy of helping.
That is chauvinism [Prejudiced belief in the superiority of one's own gender, group, or kind: “the chauvinism... of making extraterrestrial life in our own image” (Henry S.F. Cooper, Jr.).]
The mentality in OH can be so puritanical, and the really frightening part is that so many people do not question these things.
Um yea 437 comments, I'm not reading them all so I'm sure I'm duplicating answers here.
Planned Parenthood will give you the morning after pill - no questions asked, it cost me about $65 a few years ago. No exam, no questions, you go to the counter and tell them what you need...of course, they need to be open for this to happne.
As far as the birth control method you are asking about. I once used that - DON'T TAKE THE WHOLE THING but my doctor told me it has the same affect as the morning after pill if you take 2-3 of your birth control pills (depending on the dosages).
It's illegal to deny a person emergency contraception if there is no other feasable location which could provide the pills. If that is truly the only location to get the pills in your area, then the denial is against the law.
Hello... I just came across your story. I am a law student working a paper arguing that access to EC should be considered a human right. I was simply shocked to read your experience and I would be interested in discussing your story in my paper if I could. If I could have your permission could you email me at jmhourih@ucalgary.ca
Oh... My... GOD!
I can't even find words to describe my feelings on this.
I can't believe it!
It's disgraceful.
I've heard it's unlawful to refuse it too, but then again, fighting might be like fighting many other battles in this world... A waste of time.
I'm sorry this happened to you. 
Because of this blog posting, I am going around to every pharmacy in my conservative area and asking for Plan B. So far I've gotten told once that it's not available yet and once that it was only a rumor that the FDA had approved it. I'm going to keep on asking -- if not for myself, then to have it on hand in case someone else needs it. I would urge all women to do the same.
with almost all birth control pills, you can double up for 2-4 days and it will act as emergency contrception. i'm from canada, and up here, our doctors will actually explian this to us in case, for example, a girl forgets her pill, has intercourse, then realizes the next day. it is effective for up to 5 days after conception. obviously not to be used gratuitously as there are side effects to the pill, especially in larger doses. but it won't be harmful to do that. almost every pill is the same. some require that 3/dy be taken, apparently (low-dose, for example). i'm not a doctor though so i suggest you look up birth control info on some health sites, or maybe even wiki? maybe call a nurse who can answer questions. or wait to call a planned parenthood place. i don't assume responsibility or encourage people to try this without further investigation and being confident in their own minds.
I believe we rationalists have been warning people for years not to let fundamentalist Christians take over the government, but they have and this kind of shit is what happens. The Biting Beaver pregnancy should never have occurred. No group of people should be allowed to enforce their beliefs on another. However, since it did, one wonders how a university professor could not have grasped the need, by the next afternoon, to make an emergency pilgrimage out of Ohio to a REAL doctor.
Apparently such a pilgrimage has still not been completed. If you WANT a choice, you must make a decision and act upon it.
The fundamentalist Christian mindset deserves scorn. But let's not forget two other villians in this story, without which the fundamentalists would not have been able to exert their pernicious influence: medical licensure and the FDA. If doctors did not have a government enforced monopoly on drug dispensing, and the FDA did not have a monopoly on which drugs are introduced to market in the first place, the fundamentalists would've been unable to prevent her from buying EC.
I am so sorry you have to be going through this. That's absolutely horrible. Unacceptable. "Criteria"? Since when do you need to meet a "moral" criteria to receive medical care? How would being married make you any more eligible for Plan B than you already are?
I'm really just so sorry. I really look forward to the day when women don't have to go through this nonsense.
Those docs are just plain stupid! You poor thing! How dare they! It's your body, your life, your choice, your RIGHT. Best of luck to you...
LBC
I'm disgusted with what happened to you. As I see it you are being very responsible.
Although I must say if I were in your position I think I would get my tubes tied or something.
There are online services (at least one) that will provide EC prescriptions without a visit or even a phone call so long as you are of age. I know because I had a similar situation with during a weekend and all the local Planned Parenthood and similar organizations were closed. While she was of age, she had no insurance and telling her parents would have been beyond disaster. The online services usually require a faxed or scanned/emailed copy of your driver's license or similar ID. We were able to get it at my local pharmacy by the next day at noon. For anyone in a similar situation, these organizations may help.
If men could get pregnant, abortion and emergency contraception would not only be legal, but government-subsidized.
"If the position of the doctors had been that they flat-out would not prescribe EC, then, although I would disagree strongly with their beliefs, I would still - very reluctantly - respect their right to hold and act on them."
I strongly disagree with this statement. By this same belief-trumps-legality argument, a racist doctor could refuse surgery to a dying minority patient, or a homophobic doctor could refuse treatment for venereal diseases to a homosexual, or a fundamentalist "all others are going to hell" religious person could deny counseling to someone of another religion.
The problem with, even reluctantly, supporting their right to "stick by their beliefs," is that oftentimes those beliefs lead to the harm of others.
To quote... "The right to swing your first ends where the other man's nose begins."
I could not believe your story when i read it, in my home country (New Zealand)this would be unheard of! If that happened to you here it would be BIG news.
I just want to comment on the "fundamentalist christians" comments. "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" So fuck off.
Hey,
This whole story made me sick to my stomach. But, I have an idea that might help you if this happens again. Get your doctor to give you several scripts for EC. Explain the situation to her and tell her that you never want to go through all of this crap again. Never be without a couple of scripts for it until Jan. 1, and even then, frankly. In fact, everyone should do this, and then when one of us has a sister in need, we should further the original EC protest and just be able to get EC from friends. Also, where in God's name are the female emergency room doctors???!!! What the hell?!!
everyone seems to be using the hippocratic oath to justify a physician's professionalism. here is a link to the american medical association's code of ethics, specifically mentioning the oath.
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/
...html#oath_oblig
this oath, though traditional, is no longer used as standarized medical school exit requirements due to the changing social dynamics of the health care system.
//Well, we use the words interchangeably here//
this makes me want to hit someone.
Why isn't the the UCLA isn't all over this?
BB:
How awful and humilating; please do publicise and protest. Thanks for being brave enough to share your story.
Where was your partner in all this?
And to the person who said: "Your job, however, is not your personal life and has nothing to do with your morals."
Right, that is pretty much what the people who sell cluster bombs to Israel to drop in Lebanon think. Pretty much Wal-Marts motto also.
BB was treated terribly but you cannot solve this by assuming that 'morals should be left out of the problem.' There is no space of moral free decision making.
I've used several types of BC pills, and always had the same kinds of reactions -- they screw you up. BUT! My mother is the Practitioner that prescribed them for me, and she let me know that if the perscription you are taking has a steady-dosage (i.e. not like tri-cyclen where the dosage varies throughout the 3 weeks you take it) - you can effectivly immitate the effect of the EC pill. All it is is essentially a high dose of traditional BC pills. She told me that if I was ever worried about the efficacy and becoming pregnant, to take 2 of my pills a day for 2 days. Talk to your doc about the dosage of the EC and how that compares to your standard scrip (i.e, yours is 1/4, 1/5th the dosage). As long as you don't massivly overdose on BC pills, and don't submit your body to a sustained spike in progesterone/estrogen you aren't going to do any long term harm. It's a "dirty little secret" amongst health professionals that the standard scrip can be used exactly like the EC pill.
Hi, BB. Sorry to hear about your plight. I surfed on in through TBogg's place (which contained his take on Malkin and her flying monkeys).
You're right. These morality clauses suck. GThey help produce unwanted children that these selfsame people who insist on their birth forget about when the bills start piling up.
Well, that is, unfortunately, not surprising. I don't think this is pure misogyny so much as it is an attempt to make the society conform to fundamentalist religious norms.
That is not to say I am not angry about all this, of course.
Since I am not a doctor I can't offer medical advice here. Sorry. Hope it all works out.
A recent case from Britain, note the reference to the Royal Pharmaceutical Society's "conscience clause":
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/.../14/
npill14.xml
god, they act as if they've never had sex before and as if it's a horrible horrible evil thing.
sorry!
xo.
That absolutely *sucks.* I don't like consience clauses, either-- I wouldn't mind so much if it was required that someone invoking it got a co-worker or someone to do it, instead of denying the person completely, but it's their JOB to take care of their patients' health. Anyway, because of reading this I'm probably going to buy some EC pills as soon as they're available OTC (I, too, live in Ohio, as my email makes quite obvious) and keep them. Even if I never need them, someone I know might....
Anyway, I found this post because I'm writing a paper for a Psychology of Women class on the social view of various forms of birth control in America, and the repercussions those views could have for womens' mental and physical health. Is it all right if I cite this post in the paper as a real-life example of the repercussions of the social stance that allows concience clauses?
Thank you for your time.
-Amanda A.
how dare they even ask about your marital status! what on earth has that to do with anything?
nobody (especially not a MAN) has the right to deny you something like that; something that would significantly alter your life.
i am so appalled! how dare they!?
oohhhh! i am SO MAD!
and glad i live in canada. but SO MAD at those people for you! i'm so sorry.
beyond disgusting...your experience and others' mentioned here are so uneccessary. No EC, but yet, if you're married (and theoretically more prepared and better able to handle a child, not that it matters), YES, EC? No vasectomy for that guy b.c the doc thinks he's too young, despite the fact that he and his wife will most likely have stillborn kids? hey doc, if they end up wanting kids, there's this thing called adoption, and ya know, he can't sue, even if he changes his mind, for a consensual and well-preformed procedure, and how is it that the whole fucking world thinks birth control is a woman's issue, a woman's responsibility, an unwanted pregnancy, a woman's FAULT, and then refuses to empower women to actually act RESPONSIBLY, even when bearing this burden of being the sole responsible party? come ON people!
This is exactly the sort of situation that class action lawsuits were invented for.
Sue them all!
Let them all feel the love a team of lawyers who stand to make a few million when they win!
This is old, but that's terrible. I hope everything turned out ok.
I'm in Canada. I got EC from a health unit before, got it no problem in a hospital in a small town another time(within 20 min of visiting the hospital).
This was all 3 years ago, my boyfriend was with me each time.
I tryed to get it one time at the hospital here, a much larger town, the main hospital in the area. (I had run out of BC, was waiting for my upcoming pap appointment) I waited for 3 hours to go sit in a little conference room. An old male doctor came in, and basically laughed at me and my boyfriend. He couldn't even come right out and say it was his opinion, he said "Some doctors feel that this is an abortion pill, and don't agree morally with perscribing it. Go see your own doctor." It was a weekend and if you want to see my doctor for anything, you need to be calling a month in advance.
So now, I found myself wanting EC again. A condom didn't break, it was just "too messy" for my liking (not gonna go into detail here). So I went to the pharmacy, now that it's available without a perscription. I bought some for $30, without being asked a single question. Today I went to the health unit to get put on birth control. I told the nurse there that I had taken plan B, just incase that would affect the pill. She nearly freaked on me, telling me that I didn't need it. Was she there??? I absolutely do not want to have children right now, and I think that if I want to shell out $30 and be safe rather than sorry, that is my choice!
I am of the opinion that birth control should be more available. My own doctor moved, and I cannot get to the office now. At the pharmacy I managed to get a pharmacist that would sell me one extra pack after my perscription ran out. It's very hard to get a new doctor here. I have been off bc for 6 months, but I would have been on it the entire time, even though I wasn't having sex, if I had been able to. My body agrees well with it. I called the health unit for 2 months before actually getting a hold of the person I had to talk to about getting a BC perscription. I have to get a PAP to be perscribed anymore than one pack. Even after that, the health unit will only perscribe about 6 months worth, and then you are expected to have a doctor. Are they going to help me find a doctor?
The only good thing is they sell it for under $10, when I find a doctor I will be paying $30 a pack in a pharmacy, stupid!
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