DeMediacratic Nation
The quote you use are ignorance, of course. But behind that ignorance there must be a little racism. I think they go together in many cases.
On the matter of the women and the exercise facility. I don't think this is new. It seems we went through this a year or so ago, perhaps it was another incident. If the women were promised a secure, private place to exercise, then this is a legal matter. The corporation did not comply with promises made. Either they can refund the women's money or do something to fulfill their promise.
I don't think a corporation has the obligation to provide a private place for Muslims or any other religion. This isn't racism, this is just business. If they provide this for Muslims, then they would have to provide it for Amish, or any other group. The bottom line (money) determines what is possible for a corporation.
With Michael Richards and blacks, and Mel Gibson and Jews, they use alcohol as their excuse, but I believe they are racist deep down or this would never have come out of their mouths.
Ignorant people can be racist and racists can be ignorant.
Well, having come from Buffalo and environs I can definitely say that black folks do live, work and otherwise exist quite well in cold climates. What we have seen, however, is the term 'racism' moving from a description of activities (such as segregation, Jim Crow laws and such) to a description of something that can only be put into an 'intention based' category. Ascribing intention that is not stated or, in fact, goes against a stated reason for coming to a conclusion is a way to use coercive ideas to limit other ideas and activities.
That activity is: thought control.
I would not put labels on individuals based on thought, and those who do can come to a rude awakening when reality does not fit labels affixed to individuals who then do something contrary to the label. Judgment by label is showing one's own lack of understanding of applying the ideals we hold as a society to oneself.
That is prejudice, not necessarily racism.
I would say that the answer to both questions is racism and ignorance. I think both qualify as pure stupidity, as well.
Let’s start with some definition. Racism is the placing of one group over another because of some real or perceived difference. That difference could be color. It could be gender. It could be nationality. Ignorance is simply not knowing the truth about something, although in this type of context it usually implies a refusal to learn the truth.
Neither of the above statements are patently true—of any demographic group. That reveals ignorance. However, because each statement sets one group “below” another based on a difference, they are also racist.
Short answer....."both"and "both"
Long answer..
Ignorance is a lack of factual knowledge with which to create a reasoned conclusion or make a logical assumption.
Heh.....there is a world of ignorant people out there. Now....what makes people ignorant could take pages. Plenty of reasons.
Racism on the other hand is learned. It's largely based on life's impact on you, and it starts early. What your experiences are....what you hear, see, are taught,are told etc.
It's your generalization of others based on all this that makes you a racist.
Now....Everyone is ignorant to some extent(you can't know everything)...and everyone is at least exposed to racism to some extent(you can't avoid it)
The two are symbiotic....Generally they tend to reinforce each other.
The rub is what you do with all this input(or lack of it)
You can use this combo to hurt....or you can understand that it's hurtful and act accordingly.
My grandmother was the sweetest kindest person in the world, but was a racist through and through. Her generalizations about black people were private and clear, but she treated every person she came in contact with with respect and kindness.
How's that for a conundrum.....
Well maybe this perspective will get things going.....Hey, if folks don't agree....say so....It's a worthy debate....though better with a lot of time and a bottle of scotch.
stik
One more addendum......
Using racism to characterize a specific action is a great tool of intimidation. It generally is used to obfusicate the facts...Works great too!
It's important to remember that racism is rooted in the idea that one's race is somehow superior to others. The first example doesn't nessisarily fit the profile, but often times comments like that are symptoms of racism. The second example strikes me as a racist statement, the idea that blacks cannot control themselves, especially in the presence of a white woman. Making generalizations about a certain race (other than your own) is frowned upon because it is a symptom of racsism. I don't have to give an example here, you all know which ones I'm talking about, we've heard these generalizations about nearly every race, and stand up comedians often use these perceptions to mock their own race. The reason these comedians aren't considered rascist is because their intention is to break down racial barriers, to loosen up the tension of umfamiliararity between the different groups. It's OK, even heathly, to notice harmless differences between the races, but it's difficult to do given the stereotypes used to demean minorites in our recent past.
Man needs religion as much as a fish needs a bicycle....so cut the crap and get to work...
As for the racist bit...I guess we are more intolerant to people around us who do not conform to our views...which is a shame...
I have done a couple of posts on this subject, Racism is Ignorance plain and simple. However some folks use it as a crutch.
For instance the saying "the White man is keeping us down" is indeed racist IMO. it is not the White man making gang bangers kill one another, it is not the White man making the crack addict smoke crack.
Fear of another culture is a phobia. Fear of actions perpetrated by a culture is natural.
One of my responses to a black man claiming "Racism" because a woman clutched her purse tight when he walked by her in Beverly Hills was:
"If I went to Compton wearing a confederate flag hat and a "get er done" T shirt with overalls and brogans, could I expect to be treated as if I was in rural Georgia?
Perceptions and reality are often different.
Racism goes both ways, Whites can't have a White only college, Whites can't have a white only clubs, Scholorships or festivals with the word "White" in it.
however Black colleges, Mexican's La Raza, and several other cultures can have openly Race separate organizations.
This will continue until enough of us have had enough.
Boy, this is always such a "touchy" subject, and it shouldn't be. Thank goodness the real friends that I have that are of other races or religions, we have the friendship and ability to speak candidly with each other about our differences and learn.
As to your quotes...ignorance. Fitness gym made a business choice to have their facility the way it is. That does NOT make them racist, nor are the Muslim women harmed or discriminated against by the business choice. If there is a need for that type of gym in that area, why don't they better serve their time helping to organize a gym that suits the particular needs they wish to have in a gym and have another profitible business in the process?
Why is it that black men and women call each other niggers, but I am forbidden to use that word? I think Ms. Maulkin chose the perfect phrase, it's all just grevience mongering. Silly nonsense, people have gotten to the point that they argue just to argue, nothing ever gets resolved and every thing is far over analyzed.
Racism is bad, and to assume all people from a group are bad because a few of them are is ignorance laced with racist roots.
However as individuals, if one black person would talk candidly with one white person about all the issues that each person faces, so much is gained and both walk away better people. We cannot be afraid to talk to one another for fear of political correctness and reprisal.
My friend, Mark, and I used to walk to middle school together, since he lived two doors down from me. The path we took went through the wooded area that was the shortest line between our houses and the school. Halfway through the woods one December morning, he turned to me and said "Isn't this beautiful weather? I love a fresh snowfall."
Obviously, Mark is black, and I am white, showing the two quotes to be, really, more blind ignorance than racist, along the same lines as saying that white men can't jump, or dance, or whatever that some black athlete or entertainer might be more famous for.
Each of us has our own unique abilities. We also have our unique likes/dislikes, preferences, and druthers. I would prefer to live in a mountainous area, for example in the area of Flagstaff, Arizona. As it is, I am living in Phoenix, in the middle of the desert. Does this mean that I don't like to live in the cold? No, it means this is where I am living and raising a family, while making a living. Given my druthers, I would be independantly wealthy and living on a "gentleman's ranch" (not a working one) outside of Flagstaff.
Using the courts to change another person's otherwise legal behaviour is asinine. Suing the state of Arizona because it gets so darned hot in the summer here in Phoenix would be thrown out of court. Why should the court be able to force a business owner to change their policy? Why should a court be able to force a company to perform certain actions for some of it's customers but not others?
Racism is not ignorance. Ignorance can be educated. Racism is stupid. Stupid goes to the bone.
The word racism has become the key knife in the back on every subject of disagreement. The word is used so often its very meaning has been lost or forgotten. We instead pound or beat one another with it as if a club hoping to silence a counter voice.
Generally speaking it is okay for any group other then white or Christian to separate or segregate by any means of their choosing. If whites or Christian do it, it is racism and must be immediately reported and penalized.
Often ignorance is the result of not looking for answers. It is far simpler to adopt someone else's view point then to do the work required to form your own. We see the herd mentality all over the place. Politics and race our common dividers that few will venture to the edge and look to find common ground with those on the outside of a group.
Your examples regarding Blacks is racism resulting from ignorance. There is nothing with Muslims that can be attributed to racism. Being Muslim has nothing to do with race, same goes for "Hispanics". I do have an interesting story to share. My BF is Black. One day he was telling me about having the choice of either going to the Army's scuba training or going to paratrooper training. Since he was Airborne I knew what he had chosen but his comment was funny. He said, Blacks general won't opt for the scuba. I'd never heard that before. Guess we were having a discussion about jumping out of planes especially in combat which scares the bejeebers out of me. I'd rather do the scuba thing even tho I've never done either (planes or scuba). I have no clue if he's right or wrong.
I do know I'm very tired of the racism invective. I will generally discount anyone throwing the word around. You can't stop people from being racist - that's called thought control. Africa has some of the most horrendous ethnic cleansing in the world. But it's between darker and lighter colored skin. I personally believe the U.S. has become the most un-racist nation in the world. If you look at Europe and the Middle East - they all hate the Jews. Blacks in the US need to get beyond the race issue. The BF grew up military which is probably the most colorless life in the country. He's also the most balanced person I know. He is not a victim and never will be.
btw - I don't believe Richards or Gibson are sincere in there apologies. But then, I really don't care about their outbursts other than they expose the veneer of Hollywood. Bunch of phony leftists.
Both quotes are simple ignorance. Considering that racism is defined as a belief in the superiority of a particular race, neither quote fits the bill.
Simple things show the error of the first: Lots of black living in the northern inner cities. Like Detroit.
History and a simple look at rural America shows the error of the second. Blacks used the woods to flee slave owners; they didn't wander down the roads heading north. Blacks live near or in the woods in many places in America. Just like whites do.
Race-mongering is a time-honored tradition with demagogues of many races. Jesse and Al are mong the most successful and disgusting. But they are just the tip of the iceberg. And they are appallingly ignorant people.
Oh, dear... Isn't showing preferential treatment to Muslims for both prayer time and gender racism in itself? After all, why not simply buy a treadmill if one cannot find a gym to suit them?
Sad. I really thought the days of "seperate but equal facilities" in this country were a thing of the past.
Hmmm...well, if a salesperson told the women that there would be separate facilities, and they joined based on that knowledge - then they have the right to be ticked off. The gym should give them their money back.
As far as the following comments being racist or just plain ignorant...It depends on who you're talking to.
Michael Richards? Probably racist.
A person who says Blacks don't live in cold areas, because they don't like the cold? Well...it depends on the context of which it's said.
Did the person actually believe what they were saying? Or were they making a joke?
For instance; if a person said it, and they believed what they were saying - then it's simply someone who is misinformed.
If I said the same thing, knowing darn well it wasn't true, then that would be ignorant.
If I said, "...white people can handle cold better than blacks, that's why they live in the South." - then that would be racist.
As far as the woman who said - Blacks don't like the woods...
Did she truly believe it? If so, she may be misinformed...possibly ignorant.
Would she be just as scared if they were white men?
If not, she may be racist.
An even more interesting question would be to ask her where she learned that information.
We are all racist to a point because we fear what we cannot fully understand. Nobody but a black knows what it is like to walk in the shoes of a black, nobody but a white knows what it feels like to walk in the shoes of a white, and each other believes they understand the other at least to a point, yet know nothing of it. Nonetheless, it seems those who tend to cry loudest about racism seem to be the more racist. Unfortunately, the mainstream media ignores those instances, and concentrates only on what they believe the readers are willing to bear.
Quandry #1:"Blacks don't really live in cold areas because they don't like the cold weathter."
Sure they live in cold areas, but they do not "come" from cold areas. So, it would be a factual statement based on history. But it's really no different than any other blanket statement, like, "White men can't jump". I hate to call it ignorance, rather, mistaken impression. Certainly not racist.
People are way too frickin' sensitive.
The second issue:"I just walk in the woods when I'm near the building because they don't like the woods."
I still wouldn't call this racist. The person who said it may be, but did she see, hear or live through something that would make this a factual statement? Did the men say they didn't like the woods.Is she uncomfortable around black men for a valid reason.
I mean, I'm petrified of the dentists. So, I have made statements like,"Dentists all suck donkey balls". Doesn't mean that they all actually do. It's an emotionally driven comment.
Both could be construed as ignorance or if you like, racism, but both could also be perfectly innocent statements.
As someone who spent 7 years in the ghetos of NYC on the streets as a paramedic, no we had to park and eat on the street of our area, it is neither ignorance nor racism; it is self preservation.
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