I thought Jimmy played well, but would recommend that when he has time, he should throw the ball out of bounds, rather than just walk out of bounds for a ten yard loss, casualy. Also, the interception one was a mistake, but those happen and with Jimmy, fortunately not very often of late. Also, when we are going for it on fourth and short, we need our biggest players in to protect the back side. Our guys often seem to get caught from the side. Good to get a "W" though. Surprised Stanford dropped two in the end zone at the end. Go Irish, Tim
timothy scallon | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 9:45 pm | #

I expect to be notified the minute the pink slips are signed for Latina and others.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 9:46 pm | #

Nice to see them play with some fire. ....I actually liked the announcing for the most part.

If anything I thought there was slight favoritism to ND { don't know which one}

Anyhow liked the razzle dazzle at the end of the first half. I don't think you can discount its effect on the Indians the rest of the game.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 9:49 pm | #

Any opinions on what will be the first sign in the post-season that CW is on path to redemption?
PZ | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 9:50 pm | #

Beautiful pitch by Zbikowski on that crazy play. As it turned out, strangely, he didn't need to be put in at QB to run an option offense.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 9:53 pm | #

A sign. of redemption..visiting with coaches at schools such as Kansas where{regardless of the outcome tonight}they obviously have assembled a team much greater than the sum of its parts.

The other advantage to both institutions is that it would be a feather in both their caps. Plus we are unlikely to play one another.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 9:56 pm | #

The first signs that CW is on the road to redemption will be the piles of well-meaning but overly optimistic exercises in wishful thinking which will appear on this very website right about, uh, now.

Whether they are grounded in reality, or are merely the prelude to another series of soul-crushing, bitterly disappointing Saturday afternoons next Autumn is something only time will tell.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 9:58 pm | #

Wishful thinking need not ne optimistic thinking
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 10:05 pm | #

Jesus, Joe, crack a beer and enjoy the win. We've got an entire offseason to break down the team and start opining on next year. But tonight, we live.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 10:05 pm | #

Agreed.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 10:07 pm | #

As stated in earlier posts Connemara cask strength {approx 120 proof} a peated Irish single malt with a kick, is good for wins...or losses.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 10:08 pm | #

You got it Jay. I am so sick and tired of people complaing after a victory. They remind me of my brother and he's the most negative person I know. Now say it with me folks "Irish Win, Irish Win!!!!!!" Here's to 8 wins next year, National Champions 2009.
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 10:16 pm | #

A Mangino-Weis coaching summit? Great idea, Dana. Such a meeting of the minds would demand a catchy name. Any ideas? Here's a couple of terrible ones:

"Half-a-Ton of Coaching Fun"
"The Round Mounds of Touchdown"
"700 lbs of Offensive Innovation"

These are lame. Any better ideas?
Reno | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 10:24 pm | #

It is natural,now that the season is officially over, to speculate about what happens next under CW because action needs to start fairly soon and two wins against two teams with a combined 4 wins this year doesn't last long on the confidence meter. It only lasted an hour or so for me because escaping Stanford really doesn't indicate one way or another that things will be on track before next season's opener.

Speaking of "sick and tired" I get that feeling when I hear mawkish statements about ND winning national championships in two years - cut the crap unless you have some insight on why that will be the case.
PZ | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 10:39 pm | #

What ever happened to a good crossing pattern. It seemed to be run a fade and throw deep. I love god old 44 but the kid is prone to the fumble going all the way back to his fist game against MSU two years ago. But it does not matter if they are 3-9 or 12-0 is still love any notre dame team.
Derek | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 10:52 pm | #

T Laws- 1st team AA, ND MVP, but losing control on what would have been Play of the Year for ND and a wonderful cap to Zibby's career>ARRGH! Huooz! Huooz! JC to DK 3 more years! If CW can hold on to his recruits and the Oline gets their act together along with the highly-rated D recruits of CB, then the maturation of these units should coalesce by 2009. Am I dreaming? Of course there's more to it, but Damn, I sure look forward to next year.
MayoGalway | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 11:05 pm | #

Reminder to all west coasters: Butler vs. Texas Tech at 9:30 tonight.
onehipdad | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 11:08 pm | #

DayBreak,

Darn straight!

Flow it down to the Realists ASAP!
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.24.07 - 11:30 pm | #

In over 40 years of watching football games, I have never thought of contacting anyone about a bad call. But the level of officiating today was so dreadful, I think it is time to make such an effort. And it starts with the Pac-10 booth review folks. Grimes makes a catch, the ref on the spot acknowledges it, and the booth overturns it based on NO evidence. None whatsoever -- there was no angle, no view, that showed the ball hitting the ground.

OK, here are the contacts for those wishing to make their opinions known (for booth review only, the officials on the field were NOT Pac-10). Please, any contact should be respectful, even if your respect has not been earned. (BTW, if anyone thinks this would be counterproductive, please post such!)

The Commissioner is Tom Hanson:
phone: 925.932.4411
fax: 925.932.4601
thansen@pac-10.org
1350 Treat Blvd., Suite 500
Walnut Creek, CA 94597

Director of Instant Replay - Verle Sorgen

Coordinator of Officials - Dave Cutaia (not sure if he has anything to do with booth review officials)

The above Pac-10 phone number and address should probably be applicable to all of them. I guess e-mail would be: first initial, last name @pac-10.org

I am suspicious about the sheer number of bad calls this season. Maybe it was the same as in previous years but in past years ND had the players able to overcome them. Given the quality of play this year, any bad calls could seldom be overcome.

So many calls going against ND -- is it possibly because ND does not belong to a conference and have their own conference refs?
Old ND Grad | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 12:37 am | #

Memo to the replay officials regarding the word "indisputable"... I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 1:40 am | #

I have no voice due to the amount of BOOOOOOINGGGGGG I did with respect to the officiating. OH MY GOD!! We were RIGHT in the endzone, saw that perfect touchdown pass, only to be REVERSED! UN F'ING BELIEVABLE. What happened to indisputable evidence? Who the hell is up there anyway? Had to withhold the f-bomb due to the Domer children in the crowd, but it wasn't easy! And I STILL don't know what penalty was called during the fantastic series of lateral passes.

THANK GOODNESS we weren't playing for something other than a positive end to a dismal season. I think Charlie even shed a few tears.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 1:52 am | #

Reno, maybe Fat Friedgen can get in on that action too?

Here are some more name ideas:

Gastric Run & Pass

Tons 'O Fun

Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger

Hog A Thon

Pig City Summit

Another Kind of Bowl

Blow Out The Bowl

O-Ring Extravaganza

Giant Slice of Hog Meat (x2)
Fatty Arbuckle | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 2:42 am | #

According to the SF Chronicle, Harbaugh did not stay around to answer questions from the press. I guess it's a fact he has a case of the RA's. Still like him.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 5:02 am | #

I did notice the replay official holding up a hand over his forehead to shield his eyes, i guess there was glare on his screen, but i couldn't see the actual glare so i'm not gonna call it.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 8:24 am | #

Hey guys... Brian over at mgoblog.com is reporting that ND has contacted Brian Kelly's old school (Kelly = Cincy's coach), Grand Valley State. Any truth to that? What do you guys think? Do you really think they'd fire Weis? Don't they still have to pay him until, like, 2015? Just curious...
BuckeyeChris | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 9:11 am | #

Buckeye,

i wasn't aware that the bait store was open this early on sunday.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 9:16 am | #

I like going out on a win, but gotta get rid of the big man, no two ways about it. Buy out the contract, make a deal, whatever, but let's move up and out of this embarrassing chapter in ND history. Can't do that with CW at the helm.
Bob | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 9:24 am | #

This game should have been a butt-kicking. Hughes getting only 18 carries is ridiculous. Weis is like Andy Reid, too smart for his own good. After the Zibby return, it should have been a steady diet of Hughes. Thank goodness Stanford's kicker is as bad as ours.
Bill | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 9:32 am | #

I would ordinarily tend to agree with you, Bill, but Hughes was losing his footing all over the place yesterday. Every play by him was either a 7-yard gain or a slip behind the line of scrimmage. When we actually needed the yards, I would rather go somewhere else. And we won, so it's kind of a moot point.

The catch by Grimes was so obviously a TD. I've never screamed such horrible words at the TV in my entire life. But I tend to think it was *almost* okay that the call was bad, since the refs missed the helmet-to-helmet on Lambert. Makes it almost equal.

Nice to see some fire out of Clausen, and it was also nice to see one of the o-linemen actually stick up for him for once (not sure if it was Wenger or Olsen). And I have to admit, the secondary isn't bad. I used to think it was just good, numbers-wise because of the horrible run defense but I'm a believer now.

BuckeyeChris, why would ND contact GVSU? Is mgoblog actually saying that ND is looking at their coach? (I refuse to visit that website, sorry.) Please tell me you don't actually believe that.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 9:47 am | #

The officiating was criminal going both ways. At one point I had watched a total of 3 minutes of the game and saw two completely blown calls. The Grimes TD catch was clearly a catch. If anything, there was indisputable evidence that it was a good catch. Then the play that the Stanford starting QB got hurt on was clearly, clearly a personal foul. The announcers were right, in the NFL it would've been a 15 yard personal foul and a fine would've been handed out. This one was almost worse than the TD catch because it concerned the safety of the players and directly lead to a lot of the chippy play in the 2nd half.
PAK'00 | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 9:48 am | #

Not to mention, PAK'00, the Stanford coaches should have been smacked for letting Pritchard come back out.

On a slightly related note, I really liked the announcing yesterday. I liked how they called Lambert on the personal foul (I know, he's one of our own, but it should have been called) and really liked how mad they got that Pritchard was sent back out. What I liked the most, though, was how much credit they were giving Laws throughout the game. Really nice to see. Watching him play has pretty much single-handedly made this season viewable, so I was glad to see him get some recognition.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 9:58 am | #

Thanks for the contact info Old ND Grad, I am going to take a few minutes and email the Pac 10 because that replay official should never be allowed to man a booth again. I also think our athletic depatment should record Grimes' incredible play as a catch/touchdown in our books.

Jay, that reversal was SO inexplicably bad that it may be worthy of its' own dedicated post. If that game wasn't meaningless I would be out buying a new tv instead of typing this comment.
Tony Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:01 am | #

Oh, and the groundskeeper at "The Farm" should be smacked. He apparently got his Egronomy degree from Hamburger University...I wonder if he was in the same class as Dick Butkus?

http://www.terriblemovies.com/re...l/ hamburger.jpg
Tony Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:10 am | #

jimmy is still unbeaten in california.
Schultz | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:34 am | #

I know I've cried about this before but why does Schwap continue to play meaningful minutes? One or two decent blocks a game aren't good enough. He's a comedy of errors. Is he our only fullback! Christ!
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:40 am | #

There is a nasty rumor here in Michigan and on the MGoBlog page that both ND and UM have talked to the GVSU AD in regards to their former coach Brian Kelly (who use to coach also at CMU and now Cincinati). It would be so foolish to fire Weis now that he has the boys playing well, great recruiting classes coming in and a huge buyout.
Lucky The Leprechaun | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:47 am | #

Nice one Old ND Grad, I too will email the commish respectfully.
FightingSonofNotreDame | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:49 am | #

I sent an email into those guys from the PAC-10. I doubt they'll respond, but if they do, I'll post my email and their response.
Loretta | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:55 am | #

Jade, It has been all over the radio here in Michigan too, the Huge show even said that both UM and ND have within the past week contacted GVSU's AD to ask questions about Brian Kelly (current Cincinnati coach). It would be an awful time to let Weis go, he needs to be able to get enough recruiting classes in here to run his system with his players.
Lucky The Leprechaun | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:55 am | #

Email to Pac 10 commish, we'll see what he says...

Subject:Regarding the Unprecedented Blown Notre Dame Reception Call on Grimes

Tom,

I've never been compelled to email a Commissioner on a blown call before but I feel this one is too important.

I'm of course referring to the blown Instant Replay review in the Notre Dame-Stanford game whereby Grimes made an unbelievable catch diving with both hands. In none of the replays could you see the ball conclusively hit the ground.

The ref on the field called it a catch yet your boys above inexplicably overturned his on field call. One thing is absolutely without question, there was no indisputable evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. Bottomline, it was an unbelievable catch.

I'm writing because the blatant lack of skill and obvious bias on the review crew's part concerns me for future games. I never put any stock in talk of Pac 10 refs being biased against independent ND but now I'm not so sure.

While I understand that managing performance on referees is a very difficult job, I think this is a clear cut case.

I just wanted to ask you, what conclusion does your office have on this after an official review?
FightingSonofNotreDame | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 11:01 am | #

That would be a disaster if they let Weis go now with the guys he has committed. Even rumors of it could hurt us bad.
FightingSonofNotreDame | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 11:03 am | #

they are rumors...and what a shock...coming from a Michigan blog! Give me a break
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 11:11 am | #

Sounds like someone in Michigan is trying to give UM hope and at the same time knock Weis' hold on some recruits, ie Trevor Robinson. Kelly is doing it with D'Antonios's players. He has no real record of recruiting nationally. A prime requisite for ND. He has a wide open offense,but so does another dozen programs. Currently Kelly is trying to hold up the University of Cincinnati to keep him. A half dozen schools will try to get him. Charlie is still a good fit for ND and we will win with more horses.
Doc Possum | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 11:30 am | #

Typical Michigan offseason BS. Please treat and disregard as such.
Domer Guy | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 12:09 pm | #

Two comments -
1) - There should be a post on the bad calls made against/for ND in history - Grime's TD, Carlson's first down, the Rocket's TD are a good starting point (funny how I only remember the ones against us).

2) Ignore anything spouted by the Huge Show. Living here in his home base of GR, the guy is a whore. He will say anything that will gain a bigger audience share. He failed in Chicago, unfortunately we seem to have a lot unemployed 18 to 24 year olds in this state with time to listen to "sports" radio....
graNDFan | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 1:15 pm | #

There is no way the helmet-to-helmet by Lambert on Pritchard would have been a fine in the NFL or any other league. Lambert had Pritchard lined up WELL before the QB went to his knees to slide. Was it a personal foul? Yes, simply because refs have been instructed to call any helmet-to-helmet contact closely. Was it a deliberate attempt to nail him in the head? No. Same thing with the shot to Hughes head when he fumbled. That was a personal foul, and that one didn't get called either.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 1:20 pm | #

Unless we learn that ND (or others)are talking to UC directly (whose AD, btw, is an ND Dad) who cares? Brian Kelly ate a lot of rubber chicken and shook a lot of hands in the pre-season, which no doubt had some positive impact on attendance. Then he made some adjustments, building on Dantonio's foundation, and won some games. One thing that has rubbed me the wrong way about him, though, is the absence of even so much as a nod to Dantonio for righting the ship and recruiting the players. My impression with Kelly (rightly or wrongly)is that it is all about him. Not sure I could see him at ND.
Love Thee Notre Dame | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 1:41 pm | #

Mr. Wednesday:

"Memo to the replay officials regarding the word "indisputable"... I do not think that word means what you think it means."

I get it and that made me laugh out loud.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 2:53 pm | #

Oh man that new Brady Quinn Subway commercial is wrong on so many levels.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 4:01 pm | #

If ND is indeed talking to GV about Kelly, let's hope it's for OFFENSIVE LINE COACH!
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 4:05 pm | #

Im with you, KMF. What's with those eyebrows, anyway? Did they always look shaved-at-an-angle like that?
Love Thee Notre Dame | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 4:45 pm | #

Would it be wrong to hope for Orgeron as o-line coach? Any chance he'd come to South Bend after having been at USC before Ole Miss?
Lou ntL | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 4:49 pm | #

This game should have been a butt-kicking.

And it /would/ have been one, if not for fumbles, poor footing, and crappy officiating.
John | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 4:53 pm | #

The Huge show was talking about how Brian Kelly has been recruiting nationally, getting guys in Florida, California, Texas and everywhere inbetween at such a small school and he really thinks that he is the next big deal...but I'd rather have Michigan experiment with a relatively unknown coach, Notre Dame doesn't experiment we take proven winners.
Lucky The Leprechaun | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 5:02 pm | #

Lucky; The master of hyperbole!
My post on Blew and Geld Ill. was blown up after I respectfully disagreed with a dozen or so sycophants drooling over their site. I simply said," B&G cannot hold a candle to BGS in any area of ND football." It's like Pravda West over there.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 5:39 pm | #

From a guy who ripped Zibby for his last two years in the Irish secondary.... He played exceptional today. Quite frankly he provided the inspired play and leadership that we thought he was gonna provide in every contest this year being one of the only Seniors on a young squad. I wish him luck in every thing he does and look forward to the speed and athleticism that Jamoris Slaughter and the McCarthy brothers will bring to the position for the next 2-3 years.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 6:16 pm | #

For those like me hoping that Latina is out the window...In a great stroke of luck Ed Orgeron was fired at Mississippi. His o line coach is a guy by the name of Art Kehoe. He is one of the best collegiate o line coaches in the game and a Roman Catholic from a Philadelphia suburb. He was fired from the U of Miami two years ago by Coker in his last off season. Obviously, we know now that Coker was the problem. Kehoe was the o line coach at Miami through Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson, Butch Davis, and Larry Coker. He is responsible for the development of many NFL players and would be a great replacement for Latina. The Irish will have to act fast. I believe randy Shannon will go after him aggressively. I don't know about anyone else but I would like more people on staff with collegiate experience myself.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 6:22 pm | #

Although the season was a disaster, I'm excited that the kids were starting to step up the last few weeks. That being said, I will miss guys like Zibby, Laws and Carlson who never gave up all year and were great players for the Fighting Irish.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 6:26 pm | #

I agree that Art Kehoe would be a huge "get", but I have heard from a former Miami player that Kehoe was pushed out of Miami for a reason completely unrelated to football. And the reason he was pink slipped would definitely keep him from being hired by ND. So he's out.
Andy Heck, former N.D. All-American OT is currently the o line coach for the Jacksonville Jaguars and he has done a great job there, as well as on the college level at UVa with Al Groh several years ago. Andy played on the '88 squad as a 5th year senior, was a 1st round draft pick, and played about a dozen years of pro ball. He's a cerebral guy who would be a huge asset to the staff should he ever agree to come back to South Bend.
As I have already said here a few times, I would like to see N.D. approach Oklahoma strength coach Jerry Schmidt and do what it takes to lure him BACK to ND. He was ND's strength coach for most of Lou's years, and was not retained by Mr. Footbaw, Boob Davie. So Steve Spurrier snapped him up and he served there, winning his second Nat'l championship at Fla in '97. (He was at N.D. in '88.) Then when Bob Stoops got the OU job, he begged Jerry to come with him, and, with the help of a Brink's truck, he got his man. He subsequently won his THIRD when Oklahoma won the nat'l championship!! Now is the time for Weis to get Jerry back. He is a master at developing the strength and explosiveness of 17-22 year old kids. If I was to list all the guys he personally trained, it would indeed blow your mind! He is the effin real deal and I can't overstate how incredible he is and how much of a positive impact he would have!
Get Heck and Schmidt and we will be on our way back to the physical, ass kicking days of old.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 6:59 pm | #

VIW; I'm not kidding: Send an over-night FEDEX to CW.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 7:14 pm | #

Voice, Nice info about Schmidt. I have no idea what the deal with Mendoza is. How can you tell after just 2 full recruiting classes?
I have heard that Andy Heck is already speaking to ND. What becomes of that I don't know, but John Latina has a nice body of work, so I have to believe that it is more than just blocking knowledge. Our backs and receivers can't block either (although Stoval and McKnight were good and Grimes had a great block on Hughes long 4th qtr jaunt yesterday). It could well be that Andy Heck knows better how to block for a Weis style offense. Love to see Heck and Schmidt in place by 2nd semester, but the whole pass first philosophy needs adjustment.
DuffMan | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 7:50 pm | #

I'd agree with the above comments about Latina and Mendoze.


Latina has failed miserably over the past three years. Our Oline the past three years has been terrible. Sacks on an unprecedented scale, and little to no push on the run. While you might be able to say this means these guys aren't strong enough (fairly), when your Oline has been as miserable as this one, you need to be fired.


Secondly, Mendoza just hasn't seemed to get enough strength on these guys. Now given, most of the kids playing for us this year haven't had the TIME in offseason conditioning programs to develop that strength. Regardless, I'd like to see changes at both positions.




Lastly, someone above asked what a positive sign would be going into next year. Because we are not going to a bowl game this year, the offseason begins NOW. This could be a good thing for us, in an odd way. The sign is going to be something we won't really see. It will be the attitude that this young team takes into the offseason, and how hard the begin to work RIGHT NOW in the weight room to improve.

Our success for next season will be determined in the next month.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 8:27 pm | #

Thank god this season's over...jeeze
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 8:40 pm | #

VITW, wow great post. I'm watching the Pats Eagles game now and i am noticing some little things like the difference between the ND o line cut blocking and the Irish cut blocking in pass pro. The Pats lineman have obviously been drilled to sell the pass and then sell out. The young irish o line even in Stanford game can't do that. Sounds small but it makes a difference.
Watching Tom Brady and thinking back to Brady Quinn I am reminded that so much of Charlie pass protection stuff is dictated by the QB. Our inexperience hurt this year. Hopefully that gets better too!!!
Just a few more months to signing day and spring ball, I'm pumped I don't have to see them play anymore this season!!!!
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:33 pm | #

Who waters the field the morning of the game?

Charlie loves to talk about his days at New England as a recruiting tool. I hope that he actually knows what went wrong this season and isn't really going to ask Belichek. If he needs to ask Belichek what he did wrong this year, it is time to find a new coach.
Golden Domer | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:37 pm | #

Grimes' CATCH was the greatest diving CATCH I have ever seen. Fingertips, laid out, the ball didn't sniff a whisper of grass. So many times you see the ball pop loose or the hands trap the ball on the sides or something. It was perfect.

Grand Valley State University (GVSU) is a D-II football powerhouse, and have won something like 4 of the last 5 national championships. The first two I believe were under Kelly. That said, I don't think we should fire CW just yet, but Kelly could make a valuable assistant coach. I am unfamiliar with his tenure at Cinci, but he failed miserably at Central Michigan if I remember correctly.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 10:37 pm | #

I can understand and even agree with the heat that's on Latina. But Mendoza? I think that's reaching and a bit unfair.

Take a look at Brady Quinn between his freshman and senior years. Yes, Brady was a gym rat but Weis has publically acknowledged Mendoza's work before. I dont think strength and conditioning is the problem. Try freakin' blocking someone on a kickoff! 11 games and every game seemed liked the first day of spring practice when it comes to special teams.
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 11.25.07 - 11:46 pm | #

On another note: Today's New York News had an article about starting CB, Abram Elam, covering mostly his troubles at ND & the constant pressure still being applied by the young lady who brought the charges against him and three others.
He was the only one convicted, & his charges were the less egregious.
A probationary period.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 2:19 am | #

The thing that impressed me most about the Grimes catch was the way that he adjusted in the air to put his hand under the nose of the ball so that it wouldn't hit the ground.

How the replay official concluded that it hit the ground is beyond me... it's so clearly an assumption (worse, a bad one) that there's no possible justification under the standard of "indisputable" evidence.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 2:32 am | #

Felipe, BQ was able to bench more than most of his O-Lineman. Yeah, hes a freak of nature. But what does that say about the strength of our O-Line?

Individuals such as Trevor Laws, Zibby, and BQ have developed under Mendoza, but as a team, we need some more scary looking gym freaks on the team. I'm sure that most of the physical development of those three players I mentioned occured outside of the ND strength program anyways.

So should Mendoza go? Well, are there any current (meaning non seniors) players that you would be intimidated by?
Keenan | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 3:01 am | #

Sorry for the negativity. I've gotta work on that.

I actually don't fully blame Mendoza for the physicality problems of the Irish this year.

Weis also deserves some blame. Running practices at half speed doesn't work in college so well.

My ray of hope for next year will be the first of many injuries over the offseason. It'll show that the players are actually being worked.
Keenan | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 3:08 am | #

Erik 04, I fear Brian Kelly would probably die laughing at the idea of leaving his head coaching gig with a top 20 team to play second fiddle to our Sooper Genious and be an assistant for a team that, despite having on average ~4 star talent, will be very lucky to get 7 wins in 2008.
scott | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 5:57 am | #

Scott, you're right. He's the toast of the town in Cinci right now and is in the process of having the pot sweetened to keep him here. I'm sure he would (will) consider head coaching jobs at top schools and after Les Miles' being outcoached last Saturday, I think it is not out of the question that Kelly is near the top of Michigan's short list. No way will he consider an assistant job at ND or anywhere -- and nor should he.
Love Thee Notre Dame | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 8:27 am | #

Latina - gone.

Polian - gone.

Mendoza - stays.

That is my best guess. I sure hope we are able to grab a good OL coach from one of the recently liquidated regimes in CFB - perhaps - gulp - Art Kehoe, former Miami OL coach and most recently of the Ole Miss staff? Or Heck ... or someone who can keep JC from being mauled by fearsome defenses like Navy's. Watching Sam Young's regression this year was most painful.

The weakest of weak links on this staff has to be Polian though. He was supposed to coach ST when hired, and put with the ILBs almost as an afterthought. Well, guess what? - After three years Polian is living up ot the "afterthought" status, as our STs play atests. Coaching slots are like scholarships, there are only so many of them. Since there are only ~10 coaching positions, Polian is like having about 8-9 scholarship players go bust. Dreadful.

Hopefully we address the shitty OL play and our run defense issues this coming year. If we do, the Irish could surprise. Might as well be optimistic while we can, boys.
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 9:51 am | #

I understand many people pointing the finger at Latina as a logical scapegoat, since the OL had a miserable year. However, how much of that was due to CW taking an NFL approach early on and not doing enough hitting in practice? Do any of you know if Latina recommended that course, or was complicit in it? Is it possible that Latina wanted to hit, but was overruled by the head coach? I think CW is ulitmately responsible for the decision to forego hitting, and it may have been the single biggest coaching mistake of the year. If he now scapegoats Latina for something that was largely CW's own decision, what does that say about CW's character?
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 10:11 am | #

I would not be surprised if there are no changes made to the coaching staff. It seemed pretty clear that Corwin Brown had been the first choice for DC all along, and also pretty clear that Vaas and Weis were not working well together. The way that Weis has talked about having a multi-year plan for the program, I think he probably wants to keep stability. I tend to agree with rays15, and I wonder how important stability is in keeping the current OL recruits. I know that we all, as fans, want to see changes as a proxy for progress, but only the product on the field next September can truly show what progress has been made. It's going to be a long wait.
Lou ntL | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 10:22 am | #

Did the PAC 10 officiate this one? The calls on both sides were bad to the point of incompetence, but I assumed we had brought a Big E team with us west. Doesn't the away team bring the officiating crew normally?

Whatever we do about our blocking, we need to get better all around. Without Carlson and TT, our young RBs and TEs are going to have to develop this aspect of their game in addition to the offensive side. Unfortunately, this was the season to do it. There's a lot riding on this offseason, and I agree with the comment that I hope CW finds more people with college experience for his staff.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 10:43 am | #

Regarding the helmet-to-helmet hit by Lambert, I don't think the announcers were right in making SUCH a big deal about it. Yes, Lambert's helmet struck the helmet of the quarterback. However, it did so only because the QB tried to duck out of the way, thus placing his helmet in a position to hit Lambert's. Lambert had him lined up for a perfect form-tackle, there's no way you can expect him to adjust that quickly. If the rule states that ANY helmet to helmet contact like that is a personal foul, then fine, give him a flag for violating the letter of the law. However, I don't think he did it on purpose or maliciously or with the intent to bash his head in and knock of his helmet, which does of course happen and is what the spirit of the law is meant to avoid.

Someone asked what the penalty was on the long multi-lateral zibby/walls touchdown: Trevor Laws (oh Trevor, say it ain't so) got a personal foul for continually shoving and hitting a Stanford player on the ground. They only showed a brief replay of it on TV and never really discussed it, but you could tell that it was more than just pancaking a guy and laying on him.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 11:02 am | #

Backtracking to the calling of the game, my favorite part was when stanford had the ball at 1st and goal from maybe the 9 in the 4th quarter, and the announcer says something like "do you think about taking a shot at the end zone here?"
Red | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 11:05 am | #

Sorry to go off topic, but did anybody else catch the sideline reporters comment about Charlie "going commando"? Um, what was that about?
nakey | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 11:15 am | #

I don't know nakey.


That was quite possibly the worst announcer team in the history of college football.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 11:27 am | #

It's just what you thought it was about, Nakey: the most terrifying comment ever to come from a sideline reporter.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 11:28 am | #

Haha, it was about Charlie bailing on his scripted plays after about 8 minutes into the game and just calling them based on adjustments to the defense and flow of the game. Once he leaves his scripted plays behind, his WIFE (I think) calls that "going commando."
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 11:32 am | #

Phew. Thank you Erik '04. Thank you very very much.
nakey | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 11:57 am | #

Great picture of Grimes extending for his CATCH:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/ph..._pal114& prov=ap
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 12:29 pm | #

Yeah I'd heard about that "going commando" comment in the past. It seemed more appropriate the previous two years. And a little embarrassing to hear about it at the end of this one.

Although I am reminded of a certain movie where the current governor of california rips the seats out of a convertible to make room for himself and rae dawn chong.
Shadow Hawkins | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 12:29 pm | #

Was anyone else surprised that Bruton handed the ball off to Zibby to start that crazy play at the end of the first half? I was shocked that he would risk fumbling that close to the endzone to end the half. The absolute last thing we needed was to intercept the hail mary, just to fumble it away and have it returned for a touchdown. I thought DBs were always taught to knock the ball down as soon as they could, even rather than intercepting it. What should have been an amazing play for a TD wouldn't even have been started. What's the prevailing opinion on that?
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 12:38 pm | #

I honestly almost threw up at the "going commando" comment. Possibly the most horrifying thing ever.

On the Lambert hit: No one's saying he did it on purpose. I certainly don't think so. But, as far as I know, intent or the lack thereof does not matter. If it happens, it should be called. It's not like a facemask penalty where "incidental" can be called. The only thing that irritated me about the announcers' comments about the incident was the one guy who kept insisting that Pritchard was "about" to slide. Well, first of all, he wasn't, and second of all, even if he were about to slide, he hadn't yet, which still made him fair game for some kind of hit. Just not that kind of hit.

I live in Michigan, and have never heard of the Huge Show or whatever. I think it's more likely ND has perhaps been there to look for new assistant coaches, maybe. Anyone who thinks CW will be fired after this year is an idiot. And Brian Cook certainly seems to fit that bill (at least when it comes to ND), so...
Jade | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 12:51 pm | #

I went to a highschool game this past weekend...(Shane Walton's HS), and I was really, and I mean really shocked at their QB. This kid was incredible.

He was extremely mobile, and had one of the best long balls I have ever seen. He consistently laid them in perfectly into the hands of the receivers.


Not only that, almost all his incompletions were DROPPED PASSES.

I know we alread got Dayne Crist,

but geez, we should pick this kid up since he is completely under the radar...at least as an athlete. (he was really quick)


http://prepsports.signonsandiego...ll/player/1256/
buttface06 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 12:57 pm | #

oh yeah...the kid also had great accuracy on the run, putting it away from the cb, right to the receiver.
buttface06 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 1:07 pm | #

From an article on ESPN about the Nebraska coaching search:

"Whoever the coach is, Osborne envisions a return to the days when Nebraska teams played a bruising brand of football and cultivated many of their best players from within the state.

Callahan junked Osborne and Solich's triple-option for the West Coast offense, and the Huskers seemed to lose their hard edge. Under Osborne and Solich, some of the most ferocious hitting occurred on the practice field. Under Callahan, practices in full pads were uncommon."

I just thought the parallel to our lack of hitting in practice was interesting and worth pointing out.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 1:27 pm | #

"Someone asked what the penalty was on the long multi-lateral zibby/walls touchdown: Trevor Laws (oh Trevor, say it ain't so) got a personal foul for continually shoving and hitting a Stanford player on the ground."

^^^Sorry I'm gonna have to bitch about this. I watched the replay again and again. If you watch it you see Laws dragged down BY THE FACEMASK. No flag called. Laws, obviously pissed off DOES push the helmet of the guy on the ground. And thats it. You want to call that a penalty? Sorry. Let them play the game.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 1:59 pm | #

Rays 15
Thank you. One last time.: Latina has one of the best coaching resumes in the business. For years he was considered THE best Off Line coach in the SEC which is not a bad conference. He is not the problem: he teaches what the Head Coach wants taught to fit his Scheme and we all know how Charlie believes in his "distinct schematic advantage."

Charlie has a great scheme and when he has the players he is a hell of a good coach; we have all seen that. But Charlie has not developed his recruits--he himself has said he cares only about the 22 guys that start. Charlie is still coaching on Sunday but the kids playing this year are not Sunday players. He continues to rely on scheme. 2 Examples: when Hughes was stuffed, his scheme has a single back 8 yards deep and Ragone flexed 2 yards back to cover the backside. Ragone is a freshman; NO Freshman, even when he sees the DE at a 45 angle is going to adjust as a pro would. He had no chance at the cut-off when the DE jumped the snap count and Hughes, 8 yds deep is dead meat. Dumb, Charlie. You didn't think personnel.
Second, Charlie's scheme always gets the first down when a 260 lb fullback has a half yard to make: but our FB had carried the ball 9 times all year for 11 yds and three fumbles. It became 10 carries, 11 yrds, 4 fumbles. Dumb, Charlie. It's ALWAYS personnel, then scheme. On Sunday, you just have to worry about the first.
I'm also surprised that none of you guys picked up on the Arute comment about F-bombs being dropped all over the place. I sincerely wonder, as did the announcers, whether this is effective coaching? If Charlie sets this sort of example, our problems run deep. He has always said he considers himself a teacher, but of what? Certainly not of fundamentals as it was apparent that JC took a number of steps backward on Saturday (once again he fired Voss). He can wander off to see his PAT buddies, completely dissing his assistants in the process, but will he ask them how to become a head coach or simply why his beloved scheme doesn't work? Will they know what goes on at practice, in the meeting rooms, in the feedback from players and staff? The questions are rhetorical. It is not Latina or Mendoza or any other single coach although certain upgrades may be needed. It's Charlie and he has to learn. If he doesn't we will know after two games next year and if not he should be dismissed. See you guys in September. Go Irish!
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 2:50 pm | #

anybody else wonder about the firing of Voss?

I mean after all...Dukes QB got a lot better since he showed up...as did Brady....
buttface06 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 2:58 pm | #

sorry.. I think I mean Vaas
buttface06 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 2:58 pm | #

Everything that I had heard was that Charlie was the QB coach at least with Quinn. I wish we could have found out more about Vaas but Frazier and DJ transferred. If John Latina is canned it is not because he is a bad football coach. There are truly no idiots on a D1 staff. (I have heard rumors of Bob Davie leaving the booth though). He will go because his way of teaching is not clicking with these lineman, or he's not clicking with the system. He isnt the first and he wont be the last good coach to get the pink slip.

You can not argue that he has done a good job. Ryan Harris was suppossed to be the real deal. We never saw it and I thought he actually regressed as a Sr. Blown assignments and confusion has been the norm for the ND o lines in years past. Sam Young performed better as a Fr with just his hs coaching basis and his god given ability. As a sophomore he regressed. That should never happen.

That brings us to the next aspect of this decision. Are you going to withdraw 8 scholarship lineman and throw them off the team? Build a time machine and choose different o lineman to focus your recruiting efforts on in 05 and 06? No.
No need to assign blame but time for all parties to move on because this isn't working.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 3:54 pm | #

Another note I forgot. If you look at the current recruiting class, I can't recall if it is rivals or scout (help me if you've seen this) much of the big recruits came with corwin brown, or bill lewis as the primary contact. In fact, I believe Sam Young was a Bill Lewis guy. If he were an exceptional recruiter i might feel differently about firing Latina but I don't believe he is.
jdubbs | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 3:58 pm | #

I have to admit that I am glad we won. This is troubling to me,after the third game of the season one the anouncers said that ND lacks talents. All I could think of was all the good running backs we have( jabbie, Robert Hughes, armando and alrdidge)and receivers( kamara, grimes, Parris)at some teams that is all you need to develop and win games. This whole year has been personnel, call playing, game planning and trust issues.
1.How can you start a freshman QB knowing that he just had a surgery on his throwing elbow.
2.Demetrius Jones issue, sorry but it wasn't well dressed especially during GT game. He should have finished the GT game or started at the Penn state game.
3. The o line issue I am not even going there.
4 One game we decide to run and the other games we don't. From day one I have been waiting for the running game but NO we have to throw.
5. I hope this is a great lesson to CW, I don't know what to look for at qb but if you I know how aggressive my opponents are and the schedule I will definetly not put JC at QB. At some points you have to be realistic. JC needed a year to put on some weight and get healthy and benefit from the sideline. CW made it seem like an unhealthy JC is better than in other QBs we have which is the wrong message to send to your team.
As for next year I hope by spring we know what type of a team we have; pass happy or running team, I would prefer the later. Go Irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 5:43 pm | #

Ok I lied, it's not September. It is Vaas...the other guy was a former colleague. Apologies. Quick points: Ryan Harris was dinged all last lear and lost 10-15 pounds during the season. He's still with the Vikes. Latina recruits o-line, not in general. The recruit co-ordinator is the ends coach and very good at that. Young and Weigner were Kutch's boys which is why he's so pissed (don't tell the NCAA). Young has no feet and would be better at guard where Olson and Turk have made great progress. So It's decision time: do we send Young to dancing lessons (not kidding) or if we find a kid with feet, put him, Young and Duncan in competition and see what happens. And no, Young sucked last year, he just had a better supporting cast and he was at right tackle because we had no one better. And while we are at it, I wish we would not get caught up in the hype. Carlson is a great athlete, a wonderful student a great pass catcher and a marvelous credit to Notre Dame He just can make a block if his mother's life depended on it. In Charlie's "scheme," to send Carlson to help Young is sending the lame to help the hault. Personnel before scheme. Weigner, however, is going to be really good. And now, I'm really gone. Go Irish!!
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 7:36 pm | #

At the top someone asked what the sign would be for a turnaround. I think it is answered with the bottom posts- Sam Young. Sam must be a great kid and is trying his ass off- but he has shown no improvement in two years and in fact can be beaten on a speed rush by any average D end. He is simply not a D1 player. These things happen- thats why you recruit more than i player for each position. So the sign is that Sam gets demoted/changed. Similarly Schwapp. No more snaps. No more comments about him being the strongest player ever etc.
On a related point, I loved the announcers. Fair, dispassionate and intelligent. What a combination. The one guy matter of factly summed up Jimmy's errors, while at the same time stressing that the move from h.s. to college is greater than college to NFL. Secondly, he said that the tapes showed him it was mostly the o line.
I say, hire the Navy oline coach.
It was a good game and nice to see our speed players play. Most of you would appreciate the way hockey is officiated in the main- no minor call would negate a monster play, and the refs just exercise discretion.
Oh yeah for the Michigan bloggers, I heard that Les Miles is considering a move to Michigan but he is insisting on a ND clause that he can move to ND within 3 years if there is a vacancy. Perhaps its only a rumour.
canuck75 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.07 - 10:58 pm | #

Sorry, but Sam Young is here to stay. Charlie is not going to demote a 2-year starter who wants to take on an active leadership role. They will address the footwork issues. Sam Young is a manchild, and was one of the most highly rated offensive linemen in the country. Many offensive tackles get beat off the edge by D-lineman, and the o-line's problems inside will be fixed with experience and an offseason playing together.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.07 - 11:44 am | #

I think a lot of the O-line excellence we're all pining for (Tom Osbourne included) fails to take into account the way the 85 schollie limit has changed the landscape of college football.

In the past -- say the late 1980s or early 1990s -- bigtime football schools like ND and Nebraska could overstock their rosters with linemen. This had two effects: (1) it allowed them to field experienced, mature linemen who ran a gauntlet of serious competition to attain starter status; and (2) it deprived lesser football schools of linemen who might be productive starters.

The scholarship limits have reduced this stockpiling of linemen, and I'd argue this is the single biggest factor in the "parity" we hear so much about in college football.

In the 1980s, bigtime teams would routinely be losing to "lesser" opponents in the third quarter, only to steamroll them with line play in the fourth. Flash forward to this year, and you see that very few teams are able to do this anymore.

Translation: I'm scared about our O-line next year, and if Tom Osbourne thinks Nebraska's going to be able to run the ball like it used to, I've got a used car to sell him.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 11.27.07 - 1:09 pm | #

Hal, I believe the scholarship limits started before the 90s, it came about the time that the size of the coaching staffs were decreased.In Ara's day you could give unlimited scholarships but were only allowed to dress so many players. Johnny Majors brought in 70 scholarship players in 1973 to Pitt that is what fueled the turn around there. I honestly you need to give more OLine scholarships than anything, I think you need no less than 15 Olinemen on scholarship at any given time. Look at the OLine depth of most of the top rated teams. Why carry 5,6 or seven running backs on scholarship when only one can carry the ball at a time. OLinemen hit on every play, the wear and tear on an OLineman is tremendous. I would dare anyone to name me one team that did not lose a starting OLineman for at least one game this year, then name me one team who did not lose a starting QB, running back or wide receiver for the same. We need quality OLinemen, and we need quality depth and plenty of that commodity. Again, I say, no less than 15 Olinemen on scholarship at any one time, that is 3 complete lines. It may take some longer to develop, I feel that Sam Young will be fine.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.27.07 - 2:38 pm | #

Doug, I believe the limit went from 95 to 85 sometime after the mid-'80's.

Domerplayer, it was Ragone that got skinned by the DE on the 4th down attempt by Hughes. The guy inside of him blocked to the inside (I believe that's "blocking down", but I'm not really up on line/blocking jargon), and the DE was through the gap before Ragone could get to him. I don't know if you were commenting on this play specifically or tackle/TE team play in general.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.27.07 - 10:33 pm | #

Wednesday.

I said it was Ragone. Double Tight, Ragone flexed. TE blocks down on the Tackle, Ragone is the back protector on the end...but not when flexed. He can't make that block if the guy crashes. What don't you get?
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 11.27.07 - 10:55 pm | #

Doug,

The 85 schollie limit took effect in 1994. Think that had any impact on Holt's decline?
Hal | Email | Homepage | 11.27.07 - 11:59 pm | #

Hal,

I think losing Vinny Cerrato is what hurt the most. I watched Tom Lemming last night on CSTV, I know most disregard Lemming as an Irish lover, but he rated Cerrato the best recruiting co-ordinator of all-time. Haywood was 8th.Cerrato did a lot of innovative things as recruiting co-ordinator. They changed many of the rules because of him.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.28.07 - 6:47 am | #

Doug,

Agreed. His line recruiting was particuIarly sick.

I have a 6 year old son who's starting to watch old ND games. He was watching the snow bowl the other day, and he said, "They never pass, but they still always get first downs." At another point, he says, "They never go backwards."

He doesn't know it, but he's remarking on the O-line's dominance. (It helps to have backs like Brooks and Bettis as well...)
Hal | Email | Homepage | 11.28.07 - 9:12 am | #

Domerplayer, my post was in response to your Young/Carlson bit in your most recent previous post. Clearly, you were not talking about that specific play, so you can basically disregard my comment.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.28.07 - 12:56 pm | #

Mr. Wednesday

Sorry man. I misread. Am on the road.

I'm not saying Young might not be a great tackle, just that he isn't one right now and unless he learns footwork i.e. how to "dance" he would be better at guard. If you can, check out films of Fasano and compair them to the looks we have of Carlson this year. Carlson's stock will decline in the draft I'm afraid unless there is some Off. Coord. whose scheme doesn't rely on a blocking tight end. Don't watch enough of Pro to comment. Again, apologies
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 11.28.07 - 3:16 pm | #

Domerplayer,

The problem with Young is that he is too tall to play inside. 6-8 id not a good height for a guard. Usually they dont like the guards to be over 6-4. I think that Young could develop into a very good tackle, he has the framework, if he has the desire. I think that CW needs a speed coach and a dance instructor for all the linemen.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.28.07 - 4:13 pm | #

Jerome Bettis played racquetball/handball at ND to develop his footwork... maybe our O-line should consider that?
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.07 - 6:25 pm | #

Doug and Erik

Good points. I had forgotten about his height. It doesn't prevent him from working inside but it is a hinderance. Ballet lessons work too. (No kidding)
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 11.28.07 - 7:11 pm | #