Actually the game would be wiped from the record. If that were to ever happen. No victory. No loss. Ask Georgia Tech.
Sean | Email | Homepage | 04.29.06 - 2:07 pm | #

Good point, Sean. We'll call it an "unbeaten streak."
Dylan | Email | Homepage | 04.29.06 - 2:27 pm | #

Only a few things in life are as sure as death and taxes. One of them is that when USC football is good, you can be sure that they are operating outside the lines of the law or, at least, the NCAA.
jim | Email | Homepage | 04.29.06 - 5:04 pm | #

Here's a question.

How many USC Heisman winners need a lawyer to defend their actions?

What's that all about?
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 04.29.06 - 6:57 pm | #

To Live and Die in LA
It's the place to be
Got to be there to know it
What everybody wanna see
It's the, City of Angels and constant danger
South Central LA, can't get no stranger
Full of drama like a soap opera, on the curb
Watchin the ghetto bird helicopters, I observe
So many niggaz gettin three strikes, tossed in jail

Tupac Shakur
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 3:46 am | #

I love it. more whining from the ND contingent. Everyone cheats except you guys. We all know. We all know you guys are on the up and up, perfect etc.. Amazing. You do realize that your institution has over the past two decades added more stringent academic requirements for entry into the university, don't you?? Don't you think that may translate into better academics, a better student athlete leaving the school and more importantly to you guys LESS productivity on the football field?? Has this NOT occured to you people, especially since you have not WON SHIT in almost 20 years including your last seven or eight bowl games or whatever that absurd stat is?? Get realistic about what other schools are doing. People don't go to SC, Florida, OSU, Texas for a GREAT education. They go to ND, Michigan, other Big Ten schools, Stanford, UCLA etc.. Now Weis is going to try to close the gap and maintain the almighty bridge which in your minds separates ND from everyone else. He may just do that. I think I'll take the wait and see attitude. My guess is like everyone else trying to mix academics and national championship football that ND and Weis will run itno some similar issues with personalites on and off the field. Meanwhile, until you win something tone it down on SC and any other institution that you would consider bashing when you feel necessary. I'm surprised I didn't hear this crap after we shoved our foot in your ASSES in the Fiesta Bowl. After all even with Clarett and Alex Boone leading the way for our candidacy as the most corrupt athletic institution in America we still have the highest GPA as a team in the Big Ten. Yes, that's right even above our boys from Northwestern and M. Have a great season an get off your Four Horseman!!
byron murrill | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 9:48 am | #

I think you missed the point of Dylan's post.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 10:32 am | #

To Byron,
That inflated GPA includes courses such as Football 101 and Golf? Right?
NDMD | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 11:13 am | #

Byron, don't be a dick!

(1) If you're going to poach on another fan base's blog, at least be smart enough to understand that a site like BGS is intended to be a private conversation amongst fanatics. And when fanatics talk with each other they might be a little irrational. Is it likely that USC's 2005 season will be wiped away? Not likely, but we can fantasize, can't we? What are you going to do when Alex Boone is cleared to play? Decry the slide in standards at OSU? Or shout down dissenters?

(2) It's not like ND fans are making this shit up about Bush and Sanchez. Note the source for the Ornstein/Segal story -- the L. fuckin' A. Times, not the Notre Dame Observer.

(3) Before you start raggin' on ND's recent dry spell, lemme axe you a question: what's the difference between 1968 and 2002? That's 34 years without a NC in O'town. So don't lecture us about futility.

Have a nice day.
Fitzwater | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 11:18 am | #

Haha, so Byron, you want us to be ok with everyone else cheating? You want the NCAA to be alright with that? Then get Cheaty McSweatervest to replace Miles Brand as the NCAA president. Until then, remember that these players are student-athletes, and that many of them at all colleges (yes including the mighty tOSU) are not going to be professional football players. What service do we provide if we push them through with fake classes, fake grades, no education, and put them in a position where it's almost impossible to succeed. Sure, maybe some rich alumni will give them a paper pushing job, but is that really indicative of what those players deserve? No. They deserve to be provided with a diploma that they earned, that will help them do anything that they could ever hope to do. Maybe it's a take on us as a Catholic school. Maybe it's the fact that we may be in the world, but we will never be of the world. We will never fall in line with what other colleges do, but we will always do what is truly right. It will always be more fulfilling when we beat the SC's, the Texas', the Florida's, etc., on the field like we used to, just like we beat them off the field.

Oh yeah, and down 7 with just under 2 minutes left in the game is really getting our asses handed to us.

And did we really add more stringent requirements to get in to the school, or did we simply enforce our old requirements from when we've won our 11 National Championships. So, we all know it's possible to get right back to that, and we now have a coach that understands that as well.
Scott | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 11:27 am | #

Good points by Byron. I think the problem is that you have a disconnected fan base. I got news for you boys, but every institution has major problems with unethical boosters, coaches, and agents. I went to a small college in Ohio and talked often with members of the football team and they would tell the stories of 100 dollar handshakes at the alumni luncheon. Its part of the game whether we want to accept it or not and NO institution, not even Notre Dame is exempt. I DO remember the Kim Dunbar scandal from years past.
But I'm also not nieve enough to think that some of these kids are just trying to generate wealth for themselves just like everybody else in america. The fact of the matter is that we're ALL in college to generate wealth for ourselves whether its through college education or playing football.
Zippy | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 12:21 pm | #

Zippy - The point isn't that stuff like this doesn't happen. It does. The point is that it happens a lot more than it needs to when your head coach is trying to be cool "Uncle Jesse" instead of the strict, disciplinarian-type coach that players need in a city full of "pony-tailed power lunchers".
Pat | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 1:14 pm | #

News flash: Jordan Uttal (aka Mark Sanchez) is out on bail.

News flash, II: J.C. picked N.D. because his parents didn't need housing nor shady agent connections.
Andy | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 4:52 pm | #

Coaches don't need to be strict disciplinarians. I work for a fortune 500 company and if somebody isn't pulling the weight they get cut. Thats reality, thats life, not football day care.
Jimmy Clausen chose ND because CW was able to sell the perception that he could develop him and get drafted into the NFL period. He said so himself. Lets not be idealistic about his selection.
Zippy | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 7:18 pm | #

These people that make attacks against Notre Dame really come across as stupid.

1. They OBVIOUSLY have ZERO knowledge of the history of ND's program, including actual W/L, Nat'l Champ, All Americans, NFL players, % of graduation rates etc etc

Really, there's no school that does anywhere as good in football. Sorry State School/regional College fan, but only ND is national. Look at the TV ratings numbers.

2. Yes, some crazy women stole from her company so she could wine and dine ND athletes. But honestly, in South Bend, there just is NOT that many people that can do that like you would find in LA or even a large city like Columbus.

The number of problems with ND students and alumni boosters is monumentally lower at ND that at other programs.

Heck, USC's got more scandal in the last 4 years than ND's had in the last 20.

3. This is an ND blog. If your team doesn't have an intelligent place for discussion, than maybe that says something about your team, OK?




Its like Coach Weis says, they just don't get it.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 04.30.06 - 8:43 pm | #

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Piff. What does option 3 have to do with anything said by the others???? Making the point that no school is beyond this and you pull out the intelligence card??? You must be all of what 16???? Alot of schools have history dude, we all unfortunately belong to the big time leagues thats why you don't see more networks. Trust me, Ohio State could easily sport a network. Its the largest university in the country, year in year out.
Zippy | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 1:45 am | #

Zippy's arguments are both coherent and on point.
Notre riffic | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 1:56 am | #

"Jimmy Clausen chose ND because CW was able to sell the perception that he could develop him and get drafted into the NFL period. He said so himself. Lets not be idealistic about his selection."

That's pretty much exactly what we wrote when he committed Zippy.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 8:05 am | #

Zippy, (err, tOSU fan)

You say that all schools have a history. Well, the greater truth is that some schools have a lot worse history than others. Kim Dunbar, some external groupie paid 50 dollars and all of a sudden became a "representaive of the university". Yeah right. That is like saying that anyone who wears an ND t-shirt is also a representative of the university. They come a dime a dozen.
But tOSU is quite different. Recruiting thugs (Maurice Claurett), paying players and giving them cush jobs (Maurice Claurett), cheating in basketball (Jim O'Brien). Punching players on national TV (Woody Hayes). Do you want me to tell you more about how the administration hired Cheaty McSweatervest after all he the cheating he did at Youngstown State? Zippy, you are throwing stones while living in a glass house.
And if think tOSU can have a network of their own, then show me a network that is willing to do it. That's right, nobody. Notre Dame got its own network because it was too lucrative of a deal to pass up. And now that Notre Dame is back, NBC will be reaping rewards, big time. Ha!
Sharp | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 8:41 am | #

I can't believe someone is actually bragging about tOSU's GPA. That is honestly one of the funniest things I have heard in a long time. tOSU has a good GPA because they let all their players slide. Teddy Ginn Jr. was a frickin' SPECIAL ED kid in high school, but at tOSU he carries a ~3.5 and Academic All-American status? Come the **** on. Also, I wouldn't brag about the GPA's or grad rates at most other Big Ten schools. While teams like Stanford and Northwestern do produce great kids with degrees, check the grad. rates throughout the Big Ten at such bastions of academia mentioned above such as tOSU and UM. Ridiculous.


Also of note, I would say Zippy's had some good points. Yet while tOSU is a HUGE school, their is no way their fan base could warrant a national television contract, though many of their games should be played that way periodically, such as Texas or UM simply because they're good games. This isn't an indictment Zippy, so don't get me wrong, its just that no program (or team in ANY sport other than possibly the Yankees.....possibly) has as large or as spread out a fan base as Notre Dame. There are too many of us, we're everywhere, and a great deal of us didn't even go to the school.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 9:08 am | #

Sorry to double-post, but I didn't see the last post at the time it went up, and I needed to clarify something.....no one should rip on Woody Hayes. That dude ruled, and that punching was the manliest, finest example of what football should be all about....kicking ass. So don't knock him, if only for the fact that Holtz learned from him. Besides, Holtz could have easily punched someone during his time.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 9:12 am | #

Holtz would never punch a player in the face. Would have broke his hand. Holtz grabbed face masks and wrenched player's necks. Much more effective.

I hurts me to say so, but I agree with Brad. Leave Woody alone. You have to respect someone who proudly sports an erectorial nickname.

Only Boner McSchwanck deems greater admiration.
Yago | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 9:36 am | #

Well, I guess the investigation starts, the NCAA probe moves forward with alacrity and the 2012 USC Trojans will face deadly sanctions under their new integrity coach, Ty Willingham. Meanwhile, The Poodle moves on, in 2011, to his new challenge: bringing the UNLV Runnin' Rebels back to football prominence.
Yago | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 9:43 am | #

And the hits just keep on coming: now USC is investigating possible housing benefits for Dwayne Jarrett.

The story: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com...t.ap/ index.html

A few quotes:

"Leinart -- the Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback picked 10th by the Arizona Cardinals in the NFL draft Saturday -- and Jarrett each paid $650 a month for the apartment that cost $3,866 a month, according to the Los Angeles Times. Leinart's father paid the difference and said he's been told Jarrett might have to repay him about $10,000, the newspaper reported."

"University compliance officials are looking into whether the football program received an unfair advantage. While Bob Leinart would have been allowed to make up the difference for his son, he might not have been allowed to do so for another player."

Paying for your son's place is one thing...paying for another player's apartment is questionable. Going out and doing something like that without clearance from the school and/or NCAA is foolish at best, and dishonest at worst (if it is a violation of NCAA rules).

Yet another example of problems running rampant at USC. If all of these things turn out to be violations of NCAA rules, it would appear USC is heading towards "lack of institutional control" territory.
Domer '99 | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 10:18 am | #

Dear the Ohio State University fan,

Wtf is up with the "the"? That's gay and you know it. Arguing with Ohio University over trademark rights using the state of Ohio's name? Weak. Ohio State can't even win its own name.

Look up the following statistics and compare them with ND:

- graduation rates for athletes
- graduation rates for football players
- graduation rates for minority athletes
- graduation rate for minority football players

- undisputed national championships
- all americans
- heisman winners
- all time w/l record
- alumni players currently in the NFL
- alumni players that have played in the NFL
- alumni players drafted by the NFL

- Number of national TV contracts
- Number of guaranteed BCS bowl game opportunities

Go ahead. Look up the stats. See how your team compares to ND. Go ahead man. See if tOSU is ahead of ND in ANY of those stats.

Look man, the reason you hate ND is because you are jealous of ND's accomplishments. Get over it. Tell your team to raise its standards. Find a coach/University that hold their players to higher standards.

Truthfully, no one cares if Tosu is a good team or not, but all of college football cares if ND is good, or at least they should if they know what's good for college football. ND brings a ton of MONEY and POSITIVE PUBLICITY to the sport.

Tell your non-alum Maurice C to go disappear like OJ. They are not doing the world of college sports any good. Their 15 mintues are over. Leave. Goodbye.

Go look up the statistics above and see where tOSU ranks compared to ND.

Come on, don't be a chicken. Go do your homework. Be a good little boy. See where your Tosu ranks compared to ND.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 10:46 am | #

tOSU grad rate and academic all-americans. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! I still can't stop laughing.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 10:47 am | #

No offense, atepesm, but posts like that are one reason why some people view us Notre Dame alumni (and fans)as arrogant and condescending. First, I know it's frequently used as a general derogatory term, but there really isn't any need to call anyone (or his/her ideas and opinions) "gay." Abuse of that terms also paints ND is a poor light.

Just because a lot of OSU fans are arrogant due to the recent success of the program (especially relative to ND), doesn't mean that we have to sink to the level of the worst of them. I live in Columbus, and so I deal with their crap all the time. Really, though, it's a vocal minority who are jerks, and most of them are honest-to-goodness college football fans. The jerks give them a bad name...and because OSU is so much larger than ND, there are a larger number of jerks out there.

Lastly, you might want to check out some of the stats you're asking OSU fan to check out. I looked up one of them - alumni currently playing in the NFL. According to ESPN, OSU has 46 alumni in the NFL (counting the 9 drafted this past weekend). ND has 40 alumni listed (including the 3 drafted this weekend). Even through last Friday, now OSU has the advantage. (I don't know how accurate that is, as it still lists Jerome Bettis as being active.)


P.S. Hopefully we'll have a rematch with OSU in the "plus one" game in January, and can settle this one on the field for the national championship!
Domer '99 | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 11:26 am | #

This discussion really is too much. Out here in NJ, college football is an asterisk somewhere below the box scores for curling. I mean, c'mon, Rutgers is our local attempt at Div. I prominence, and 75% of their games aren't even televised (with the rest on ESPN VIII or some cable access channel).
But you will see plenty of ND flags flying in front of homes in the fall and plenty of ND gear on folks on the streets. I've lived here for 26 years and have never seen any Ohio State gear displayed prominently anywhere East of the Delaware River. Teams like Southern Cal and OSU have huge fan bases, but they are geographically limited. ND is probably the only CFB team to have a sizeable number of fans in all 50 states, hence the NBC contract.
The Contrarian | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 12:07 pm | #

Now maybe I missed something but why the hell are tOSU fans getting so fookin upset over a USC post on a ND blog?? Go back to more important things like crying over the "gray" being removed from your beloved jerseys. What a shitstorm that developed into.

AND YAGO MADE A JOKE ABOUT TY WILLINGHAM!!!!! I believe that deserves a donation to some aforementioned tOSU fund. Amen.
tc | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 12:25 pm | #

Ah, crap, I forgot about that. Damn.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 1:09 pm | #

Zippy, so let me get this straight...you think that more than 1 or 2 people in say Albuquerque NM are going to drop everything on a Sat afternoon in October to watch the tO$U / Indiana game? Right.

Hope you win 'the largest school' prize this year!
domer95 | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 1:35 pm | #

Question: Now, I'm no scientist, not even a doctor. Hell I barely graduated college. Yet, in order to be the largest university in the country, doesn't that really just mean that you pretty much let anybody in? Just wondering...
Brad | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 2:02 pm | #

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't UTA (University of Texas at Austin) larger than OSU?
AprilMichelle22 | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 2:36 pm | #

Actually, if USC is forced to vacate their victories due to playing an ineligible player, it works like this:

For USC:
All losses remain losses.
All victories (or back in the day ties) become losses.

For USC's opponents:
Nothing changes.

In other words Notre Dame still lost to USC on October 15th, but USC will also have lost to Notre Dame.
Kelley Cook | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 3:53 pm | #

So, it's really tempting to smirk at all this foul news coming out of L.A. -- Bush, Sanchez, sliding draft positions, now Jarrett. But, do ND fans really want this? Personally, I don't want USC to turn into a Miami or a Switzer-homa. We've been playing these guys every year since what, 1925? Lou says SC is our one rival. Not BC. Not Michigan. They're just games on the schedule. SC is our rival. Don't we want them to be worthy adversaries? And isn't part of the worthiness that they can field great teams -- just like ND -- while playing within the rules -- just like ND? What do you guys think? Do you WANT SC players to all be Snoop Doggs? Or do you want them to be Carson Palmers?
Fitzwater | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 4:50 pm | #

Yep, I will be making that donation to the tOSU Legal Defense Fund, although I may need to re-direct funds to the west coast.

By the way, anyone got Chris Galippo's phone number? I got a de-commit call to make.

(By the way, Fitz is right -- it's sad to see more football dragged through the mud -- like a bad An Tostle cart race)
Yago | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 5:10 pm | #

* Ummmm, I don't stop what i'm doing to watch Notre Dame play the Air Force academy, BYU, or Syracuse either.
* Ummmm, I'm not a Mathematician but I would bet if you take a University that avg's 65,000 plus enrollment x number of years, i'm pretty sure it would =Large Fan base.
* I'm sure ND is a fine academic institution, but I personally would rather be at institution that feels comfortable allowing people from various backgrounds in it doors. I don't think Notre Dame uses a different type of accounting system, then say Wharton or OSU, do you?
*Kim Dunbar gave alot more than 50 bucks.
*Like I said, no institution is beyond unethical behavior go look at the service academies. I'm sorry I can't role play that Notre Dame is perfect when rationality and reality say the exact opposite.
*Maurice Clarett is a 20 something kid who made bad decisions. You know for a Catholic institution, one thats about God, Jesus, and spirituality you guys sure do hold alot of condescending views toward other people who lived imperfect lives.
Zippy | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 5:19 pm | #

Zippy, I think the 50-dollars refers to the amount that Kim Dunbar gave to the university in order to become a member of the Quarterback Club. The donation covered the cost of attending weekly luncheons. Because of this $50, she was deemed a representative of the university.
matt | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 5:42 pm | #

Ummmm, Zippy, Kim Dunbar was a fan, not an official booster. She gave a lot of money to a few players that she embezzled to get because she liked to hang with football players. She wasn't some millionaire booster with a skybox paying kids to come to play football at her alma mater. Was it wrong, yes? Does it even approach the level of what Cheaty McSweatervest has been caught doing in his prior job at Youngstown State or at tOSU? Heck no.

ND fans DO drop everything to watch ND play, no matter who. Besides, all the schools you listed are tougher than a lot of the opponents tOSU plays. Although you get props for having the guts to play Texas in a home-and-home. Good luck with that next year.

65,000 + enrollment, but how many graduate? Also, how many are there not because they love tOSU, but because that's the state school they could get into/afford? I didn't attend ND, but I root for them over the school I did attend, and that is a top 25 Div-I football program. I just couldn't afford to go to ND. Finally, how many of those tOSU alumni live in the state of Ohio/surrounding states? The majority most likely, thus limiting the national influence of the Buckeyes. I live in Washington state and I have two friends who are ND alumns that grew up here and came back after school.

And no one is saying we can't forgive Mo Clarett. He's gotta be sorry for what he's done first. We can always dislike what he's done to the image of college football too, even if we were to forgive him.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 5:56 pm | #

Zip, I'm not saying tOSU doesn't have a lot of fans. They have an enormous, rabid fan base which is quite impressive. It's just that they are regional with regard to their fan base. National power, regional fan base. As much as there are, though, there are a shitload more of us. We're everywhere. That's likely a piece of the reason people who don't love ND tend to hate it. Sorry, not trying to beat a dead horse, just tap it a little.

As for Fitz, I agree with you. I like when USC is doing well. When they are, ND v. USC is right up there with the UMvtOSUs, and the UFvFSUs of the world. I personally do not want to see the days of the mid-90s when ND steamrolled USC every year. This isn't because I don't want to see us wail on them, its just that back then USC wasn't nearly as good and it decreased the relevance of the game.

God damn this post is long, but I still have more. I think whenever enough egocentric athletes get in the same place this type of behavior will happen, mostly at least. The only thing I find enjoyable about it is that ESPN and the national media have been bending over backwards to b*** USC all year, and now that they've lost, they're jumping all over them with negative news. It's simply refreshing not to have to sit through some boring ass cushy puff peice on how poor Matt Lienhart was fat and crosseyed as a kid. It's just media backlash on the foot-loose style of leadership Carroll has been praised for. Done.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 7:40 pm | #

Don't blame SC. The media attention was thrust upon them. I don’t agree with the media kissing SC’s ass last year. I think it was a distraction and totally unnecessary. They were not a dynasty. But you couldn’t ignore their incredible run.

As far as the media turning on SC, well, that’s the media. You’re darlings one day, vermin the next. Go figure. ND has a great NATIONAL fan base. That’s why NBC pays so much for the rights. Some would feel that for the sub-standard product that was put over the airwaves in the Willingham years ND was shoved down their throat or "bending over backwards to b***". So it cuts both ways.

I’m not buying into the “footloose style of leadership” statement of your post. Coach Carroll’s style has produced wins. Just like Coach Weis’ style will produce wins. Different yes. Productive absolutely!! Tyrone Willingham’s style didn’t work nor did Paul Hackett’s so they were fired. The rivalry is better when the games are more competitive.

The media always loves an underdog story, hence the Leinart piece. Come on, it’s not like you haven’t had the same thing with RUDY!! Talk about boring.
Paragon SC | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 8:50 pm | #

Let's be honest here...Pete Carroll's style of "leadership" is a joke. He's a coach, and he wins games (a lot of them, recently), but he's not a leader. He wants to be the players' best friend, and refuses to accept any responsibility as disciplinarian. Do you think that Charlie Weis will put up with the kind of crap that has been rolling out of USC since Carroll took over? Charlie has more integrity than Pete Carroll, and doesn't derive his self-worth from whether his players like him or not. Pete Carroll seems desparate for his players to like him, and is thus afraid to place limits on them. That can work in the sort term, but in the long term (starting now?), Pete Carroll is going to reap what he has sown.
Domer '99 | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 10:07 pm | #

Well said, '99
Hal | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 10:14 pm | #

Osu does not play a tough schedule?? What was the combined W-L records of OSU opponents last year vs ND??????

I live in Washington DC and all I see is ohio state stickers, flags, license plates, wheel covers, hats, jerseys, jackets, shorts, and thats all I keep bumping into on the street, bars, restaurants, you name it we're there.
Though you guys might be right about N.D. being every where. I mean Ohio does have jobs and all. Not knocking ND but outside of Indy its very hard to find a good paying job.
Zippy | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 10:44 pm | #

Zippy,

If Ohio State has a large enough fan base to support their own TV contract, why don't they have their own TV contract?

The one school that has its own network is the one school that pulls enough viewers to justify having its own network.
Dylan | Email | Homepage | 05.01.06 - 11:15 pm | #

Zippy (I'm assuming you went to Akron U.):

I might have a slight amount of respect for Ohio State and their "tough" schedule if/when they finally play a MAC school on *their* field.

I've seen tOSU pull many a game out of their collective butts against MAC teams (ie: Cincy) with some assistance from Big 10(11) refs.

As for football atmosphere... I've been to many football games, both in South Bend and Columbus (I grew up in Akron) and dodging drunks on High St. doesn't even begin to compare with a sunny October Saturday by the Dome.
Irish_Angst | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 12:44 am | #

It doesn't make financial sense to play a MAC opponent on there home field does it??? Why would I want to play in a stadium that holds 15,000, when I could play in front of 110,000 at OSU and get a nice check along the way???

Ohio State doesn't have a TV contract because as you know or should know, being members of the big 10 recquires them to honor the Big 10's tv contract. Michigan, Penn State, OSU, and maybe Wisconsin would proabably get one in a heart beat. If i remember correctly that was the bone of contention with N.D. joining the Big 10 because they didn't want to have give up the money or split it with other members.
Zippy | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 2:01 am | #

Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!
Fitzwater | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 8:44 am | #

Ha-ha-ha-ha!

[snort]
Fitzwater | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 8:45 am | #

If I remember correctly, the Big 10 was going to allow ND to keep the television contract...it was the bowl and other money that would be split. And ND would have to play a Big 10 schedule, which didn't go over too well with the alumni and fan base. They wanted to keep the national schedule.

I live in Washington, DC, too, and its widely said that DC is ND's second largest alumni association. DC is a bad example to use because DC is a very transient area that is known to attract college graduates from all over the country, all interested in networking. Every college has an active alumni club here.

Bashing Indy isn't knocking ND...a relatively small portion of Notre Dame students come from Indiana, so there isn't any strong tie to the state when students graduate. According to OSU's web site, the enrollment at OSU is over 80% residents of Ohio. Of course they're going to stay in Ohio after graduation...that's where they're from. And that's the point of the arguments above. Ohio State is a national football power with a largely regional fan base.
ND Alum | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 9:01 am | #

Zippy,

I like how you go and make hollow claims that Ohio Late could have their own network, and then make lame excuses for why they don't.
Why would people out in the West Coast care about Ohio Late? Why would the general populace of New Yorkers give a rats ass about Ohio Late playing Iowa? Can you answer that question? Go on, tell us. If Ohio Late really could be independent and have their own network, then why don't they just defect from the Big 11 and become independent? After all, you claim they know were the money is because they play MAC teams at home. Why not defect? Why not play a MAC team at a neutral site, like Soldier Field, or better yet, in Dublin, Ireland? Face it, Zippy, Ohio Late sucks!
Sharp | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 9:07 am | #

I don't see the point of this argument.

The phrase "student-athlete" will always be an oxymoron at places like tOSU. We will always have higher graduation rates. Our scandals will always be once per 2-decade anamolies, as opposed to recurring yearly themes. Our fans will always treat visiting fans with a semblance of courtesy and respect, and when some drunken idiot does act up, someone will always step in and stop it. Our fans will never leave coolers full of shit in the parking lot after a big game a-la OSU fans after their Texas loss, or riot in the streets after an emotional loss (or win). Our players will never blow twice the legal BAL (after wrecking their car) and be back in practice the next day. And yes, we will always be the sole college team with a truly national following sufficient to make NBC millions of dollars throughout a decade of mediocrity.

That said, it always makes me feel kind of uncomfortable when we dwell too much on these issues. It can come off as smug and self-superior. Especially since it sounds like sour grapes in light of the recent dominance of USC and tOSU against us
in recent years. Personally, I'd rather bite my tongue and wait till we're back on top before beating my chest too loudly about the points we've been arguing with Zippy et.al.
scott | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 1:23 pm | #

I wouldn't say they suck, they have quite a great history and some hardcore fans. In all seriousness, though, there is absolutely no way that tOSU could ever warrant a National broadcasting contract. Big Ten has nothing to do with that, even though the rules as you've said do require Big Ten contracts. I'm sure DC does have a lot of tOSU fans, it only makes sense as DC really isn't that far away from the regional area where you are going to find most tOSU fans, plus they don't really have a hometown college team worth anything. Yet as stated before, there are tons of college grads from all over the place in DC. Do you really think you're going to find a large tOSU fan base in Denver, Seattle, LA, San Fran, Houston, St. Louis, etc.? You're not. What you will find is crazed Notre Dame fans, grad. organizations, football fan clubs, and so on. ND is the only team (possibly with the exception of Army back in the 40s?) with fans across the nation at a consistent level. Period.

Finally, I'm not trying to knock your team. We joke about tOSU and player graduation rates, joke classes, etc., but the fact is they are a consistently strong team with a great history. Yet as many good points as you've had, if you really think tOSU could warrant a national contract you're just joking yourself. Pay-per-view? Maybe, for the hardcore fan, but that would only happen if it happened through satelite while offering many other teams as well. The fact is that 8 out of 10 tOSU fans are going to live in Ohio or the surrounding areas (a lot east of Indy). The rest simply aren't concentrated. Sorry, but its the truth.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 1:34 pm | #

I find it interesting that it's OK for tOSU to play MAC schools at home *every* time (try a neutral site, perhaps?), for financial reasons. While at the same time, ND is villified for having their own TV network.

If there were an interest in any other school having a national television contract, you would have seen it by now. The reason it hasn't happened is that no other school can pull it off financially. I suspect the reason for this, in part, is non-conference affiliation.

Simply stated, playing the best teams from the various conferences gives ND the ability to maintain a national following. Having a large alumni-base is not required.
Irish_Angst | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 1:42 pm | #

I am so sick of the special privlages Notre Damn reels in, with it's own NBC network and an assured BCS bowl appearances if it is in the top 8, while the rest of the nation has to settle in the top 4. All I have to say is the rest of the world is damn sick of Notre Damn.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 10:18 pm | #

So sick of hearing ND fans complaining bout everything, and how they are so superior to everyone else...yada yada. OSU beat you guys so just suck it up until you actually win a freakin bowl game.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 10:22 pm | #

Ah... nothing like the sour grapes of concession in winning an argument. You either love us or hate us but you always are aware of who we are and what we're doing. Thus further exposing the truth as to why NBC stands for Notre Dame Broadcasting Company.
Domer Dan | Email | Homepage | 05.02.06 - 11:45 pm | #

Notre Damn......good one. I bet it took a while to think that juicy little gem of criticism up.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 05.03.06 - 8:31 am | #

Just a quick reminder: There will be no "Plus-One" game in January 2007. There will, however, be a national championship game a week or so after the Fiesta Bowl somewhere near Phoenix (Glendale?)
The other side of Aaron Taylor | Email | Homepage | 05.04.06 - 1:41 pm | #

I am waiting for that rudyese movie for those USC fans. The O.J. Simpson story part tear jerker part slasher story. a real motivator.
cal | Email | Homepage | 01.12.07 - 2:37 pm | #