I am really confused as to why Weis did not put in Aldridge for a few carries. I am not saying we should bench Walker, but give the kid a break once and a while. Giving Aldridge 4 carries would not be too much. It would be useful to see him run with the first string offense.
DH | Email | Homepage | 10.22.06 - 11:03 pm | #

He answered this question in his postgame presser:

"because I never felt the game was under control, I didn't feel the freedom to substitute as loosely as I would have liked to."

We all want to see Aldridge, but I suspect his blocking in pass protection has more that a little to do with his absence in this game. I expect we'll see alot more of him in the next few games if we're not getting our heads kicked in again going out of the 3rd quarter.
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.22.06 - 11:30 pm | #

I thought I saw Brockington on the field with Travis for a lot of the game. I was assuming that Brockington was playing SAM LB but I honestly wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I also didn't notice Mitchell Thomas or Vernaglia out there very much.

Did I see that wrong?
Ben | Email | Homepage | 10.22.06 - 11:56 pm | #

expanding on the "prove yourself" section.. i have to give some love to the defensive backs in general. although tackling with our arms instead of our shoulders seems to be a plague (see ucla's second touchdown and all of the purdue game), the pass coverage this year is vastly improved. barring a big play or two in every game, i'm thoroughly excited to see what happens when all these frosh start getting older. the athleticism should be amazing and i feel the schemes are working.

check out my blog monday for more.
Tony | Email | Homepage | 10.22.06 - 11:58 pm | #

Guys I think we REALLY need someone to PLEASE explain to us the problems at the offensive line.

As I understand it this is the second most experienced O-line in ND history? Or something close to it? Can someone please explain to me why we cannot protect our QB (I remember Quinn getting destroyed as a Freshman and Sophmore as well) as well as the OBVIOUS implications for our running game. If we can't block, we can't make running lanes. Don't blame the RB.

What the HELL is going on? We may very well win our next 4 games. Great. Grand. Wonderful. But how will USC play us? Blitz, Blitz, Blitz.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE O-LINE!!!????
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 12:20 am | #

Ben, the reason why Brockington started ahead of Mitchell Thomas and Anthony Vernaglia is probably because he proved that he was better than them in practice, so the coaches decided to start him.
Sean | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 12:32 am | #

UCLA is a pretty good defensive team (I didn't see their Oregon game). In the end, I was relieved we were able to upset them. Yes. Think about it that way.

Something I missed until watching the replay: has to do with 'management' mentioned. The Bruins chose to 'run' the clock out knowing we had three time outs. A first down would have killed us. So, 4th down, they take a delay of game penalty. Good for a couple extra seconds. Five yards further back is deminimus with the punt. However, there's a holding call (isn't that ten yards?) and the bruins have to replay forth down. If they hadn't taken the delay penalty, the holding call would have allowed them to have a first down, and the game would have been over.

Maybe I got this screwed up, but is that what could have happened?
Judge | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 12:57 am | #

I notice that new face Brockington is a senior. Anyone know if he might be around next year?
Judge | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:05 am | #

ben- brockington started with travis thomas, in place of mitchell thomas.

judge- brockington didnt play in 03-04, so i believe he has a 5th year option remaining.

also, i just posted this in the gameday post, but the hold and delay are completely separate events. the hold only happened because of all the variables leading up to the play, including the delay. without the delay, there would be a whole different set of variables at a different time. maybe the exact same hold occurs. but maybe theres a PR TD or a blocked punt. no one can ever know because its an entirely different reality. my head hurts.
mike | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:32 am | #

Judge - No disrespect to you, but as always in football, "if" they had not taken the delay penalty, perhaps Cullen wouldn't get called for holding. It's a craps shoot, especially given the nature of that penalty that Charlie described in the Sunday presser.

Yes, that penalty could have cost us the game, but there are a zillion other things that also could have cost us the game. Not worth burning brain cells on, IMO.
CS | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:33 am | #

Ben--

Charlie mentions it in the Sunday presser--Travis Thomas moved to Sam, and Brockington played Will. Apparently when gameplanning for UCLA, they felt that TT matched up better playing Sam. He does say something to the effect that it'll be game by game as to who plays S and who plays W.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 2:44 am | #

Does anyone else kinda want them to stop running Darius up the middle? Maybe it didn't happen as often as it felt like it did, but man, I was pining for some pitches and a run to the outside.
Heather | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 3:11 am | #

Talk about a text-book-perfect pump-fake...even the NBC cameraman bit on it.
RocketShark | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 7:28 am | #

Re: O-line problems. I saw on at least 2 occassions Dan Santucci just giving up on his block after one lame ass touch. Result- Quinn gets sacked. Dude, you have to at least try.
indiana | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 8:30 am | #

I dont want to point fingers...but Im going to. Santucci is the worst player on the o-line. I dont know if it has anything to do with his actual skills, but it does seem like he just gives up.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 9:07 am | #

Thanks for posting these photos, Mike. I saw the fake on TV but assumed it was buying time against a pass rusher, not drawing a defender across so Samardzija could beat him. Awesome.
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 9:24 am | #

Other than the interception, Lambert actually had a disappointing game.
Jim | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 9:54 am | #

indiana and Chris:

I don’t think you can point a finger at one guy and say he’s the offensive line problem. If that were true, he’d have splinters in his ass by now. Here are a few statistics that point to the whole offensive line:

Notre Dame ranking out of 119 Division I-A schools through 7 games:
Sacks allowed: 99th with 20
Rushing offense 99th with 97.4 per game
3rd down conversions: 98th 33.7%

Although the penalties are not broken down by offense or defense, it seems the offensive ones have hurt the most and been drive killers:
Fewest penalties per game:
97th with 51 penalties, 409 yards, 7.29 yards per penalty
PhilB | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 9:56 am | #

For the record (I think it was Ben who asked this, but I'm too lazy to scroll back up) The difference between Sam and Will linebacker is that Same plays up on the line right in front of the TE typically. Sam backers tend to blitz a bit more often, and get placed into coverage with the TE a lot as well. This may be a better spot for him for now as it allows him to play in space a bit more. Will backers need to be able to chase down runners from the backside, and must be able to read Oline blocks well enough to get into position to take away the cutback lanes.


Also, did anyone else have the problem during the game that I did? I was completely mesmerized by the 'dancers' for the UCLA squad. They were casting a spell on the SE corner of the stadium all afternoon long. Those girls should be outlawed. The were doing awful, incredible, awesome things with their bodies all day long.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 9:57 am | #

I couldn't believe UCLA's call on third and long at the end of the game? I was certain that they would roll one way, and throw back the other, when the Irish overpursued the play. I was SO THANKFUL when they chose to run instead.
Jim | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 9:57 am | #

Seeing the pump fake in this game, and the one in the BYU game last year(Stoval's touchdown) makes me wonder why we don't have more of these. We never seem to try to make the DBs bite, especially on our long fades. Same with mis-direction. Are we too predictable in our regular offense?

And one more piece of bile to vent from my system. I am so sick of everyone (non-ND fans, especially UM fans) saying how we don't deserve our ranking and such. I do believe that only ranked team UM beat was us. Has WVU played anyone yet? Same for Lousiville. You can't use the excuse that everyone gets up for Mich (see poor offensive performances against PSU and Iowa) and then not give the same kind of props to us for our tough games. Sorry.......
GRNDFan | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 10:08 am | #

grnd

the very reason that the pump fake works so well is because we use it in moderation. Using it once every 2 or 3 games virtually assures that the play will be big (ca. 30 yrds if not a TD). If we start showing our hand too often the DBs will no longer bite so hard on it.

also... if i had a vote, I would have a very hard time ranking us in the top ten. We were taken to the wire by a non-ranked team at home. Sure, UT had some problems too, but they were on the road against a major conference rival. Until we start convincingly beating unranked teams as a top-ten team ought to, I can't really fault UM fans for thinking we're overrated
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 10:17 am | #

Do you guys think the pump-fake was a rehearsed play, or an improvisation by Brady?
Jay | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 10:25 am | #

Philb-

I see your point and completely agree. I never said Santucci was the problem...I said he is the worst of the o-line (not saying the others arent playing badly). He seems like he gets beat the most out of all of them.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 10:26 am | #

To Heather:

Your question about not running Darius up the middle is right on, IMO. When things don't work out, we need to do something different. Or do things differently, whichever works.

Our O-line blocking - this year - hasn't been able to finesse the quality of rushing lanes that great teams are known for.

As has been posted before, you've got to establish the run in order to make the rest of your game plan click. Rushing requires blocking, but even great blocking without a strong runner won't establish the run. Not to be overly critical of Darius, but he's just not the "Bus." He's more of a patient runner looking for the lane, who gets stopped by a quick defense when a lane doesn't materialize.
Tom K | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 10:37 am | #

Guys and gals,BQ is a damn good QB but I think everyone is giving him way too much credit with the pump fake.I have watched the replay several times and have come to the conclusion that he was going to throw the ball but brought it down when he realized the shark was triple covered.
Matthew | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 10:52 am | #

we have a mind reader amongst us.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:13 am | #

Look for TT to play the same position in the upcoming games against option offenses, where he can use his speed to help blow up plays.
Wertzy | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:13 am | #

Matthew: Does that make the play any less great? Pumping to fake the D or pumping because you have decided not to throw. Either way it is great QBing.
SeanH | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:17 am | #

anon, I think you are wrong. ND is definitely a top ten team, whether or not they've lived up to the enormous preseason hype. Most people who follow ND through the conventional wisdom seem to think that they have a 'great' offense which is underperforming, and are scandalized weekly by our close escapes. This may not be a team that is a lock to beat Cal, Tennessee or Auburn, but look at the scores in their early season wins. Tennessee beat air force 31-30, and 'bama 16-13. Auburn beat LSU 7-3. In my humble opinion, Louisville should be ranked about 15 and WV just inside the top ten based on SOS. If we get blown out by Southern Cal then I can see an argument that there may be 9-10 better teams in college football this year. But when a team loses to ND, they are suddenly considered 'overrated' in the minds of many, while Texas can beat Nebraska and Oklahoma and have two quality wins. The secret I think to being a top program is to schedule so few games against good programs that the sports media machine has no choice but to hype these games as bigtime 'showdowns.' Having friendly refs that want you to kick the milly out of conference bottom feeders so you can generate cash for everyone come bowl time doesn't hurt either. Thankfully, Karl took that delay of game on 4th down or the 'hold' on our punt rush would have ended the game.

And as far as UM fans go anonymous, the ones I know weren't exactly riding high on the bandwagon this year until well into the 3rd quarter of their game against this 'overrated' team. Let them live it up while the weather's so fair in Ann Arbor.
CanIHoldYou? | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:18 am | #

You guys forgot the best photo in the series! The one with the first photo layered on top of the last one, claiming that the defender should have just stayed home.
Hilarious.
MattyC | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:27 am | #

I definitely don't think Santucci is "the" problem or the only problem. I noticed two missed blocks on his part, and am wondering if the lack of effort in those instances is symptomatic of the apparent issues for the whol O-line.

The most frustrating part of the game was seeing that amazing finish, and wondering *why* the Irish can't/won't play like that the whole game!
indiana | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:32 am | #

Anyone else notice that Brady is not escaping would be sackers like he has in the past. He would shake guys off left and right last year, but this year he gets hit and just falls to the ground.
UncleSmokeyStank | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:33 am | #

As for UCLA deciding to run on the third down rather than pass, Dorrell was in a tough position. If he tries to throw it and doesn't get the first down, then the UCLA fans kill him for giving the ball back to Brady with too much time. If he runs it and runs down the clock as much as humanly possible and we still score, he gets killed for not going for it. The smart money says to run the clock and force the other team to make the plays to beat you. Unfortunately for them, you just can't do that with Brady at QB.

Speaking of Brady, is there any way we can rig the clocks and scoreboards in order to make the offense always think they are down and there are less than 2 minutes left in the half? ND would destroy every team on the schedule if they played like that last drive the entire game.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:39 am | #

this is what confused me about the game. UCLA only appeared to rushing 4 and it looked as if Rhema was getting double teamed a lot, so where was Shark, Carlson, and Grimes? There seemed to be way too many coverage sacks and throw aways. Sure some of the sacks were just great pass rushes but I would say 2 or three were because receivers couldn't get open. I think looking back to the UM game we had the same problem of a great DL combined with our receivers' inability to consistently get separation from the defenders. Definitely need to work this out prior to USC.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:39 am | #

Sean: Of course it does not make it less of a great play.What I find wrong is the "pump fake" classification. Pump fakes are used in out and ups, adjusted slants, and QB runs. This was not a pump fake but a last second decision not to throw the ball.
Matthew | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:40 am | #

Heather and Tom K:

I agree that we have been running up the middle too much. What makes matters worse is that the outside seems to be open. The couple of times we ran to the outside (outside the tackle) we actually got positive yards.

We were in love with the stretch and toss-sweep plays last year and the first 2 games of this year, but we have moved away from it for some reason. It is something that I would love to see Prince run because he should have the speed to get the corner.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:41 am | #

Michigan will be overrated when they finish up at Ohio State. There is no better team in college football this year than Ohio State, and unlike 1998, they no longer have Cooper as their coach. I expect them to win their second national championship in 5 years.

As for the rest of the Tier 2 teams, when it comes down to it, it will be UM, Texas, and one SEC team (probably Fla). Include the winner of the Big East IF they go undefeated (and that includes Rutgers if they uspet both WVU and UL). Other than that, MAYBE ND gets considered in that pack of Tier 2 if they win out, including a win over USC.

So, what does all that mean? OSU plays against a one-loss team in the NC game, and every else fights for scraps. ND will most likely be fighting for scraps if they win out (which is highly likely, considering the rest of their schedule and the overall weakness of USC). Give the team a hard-fought but well-earned BCS game (maybe against the Big East winner, or maybe against Michigan again), and let Robot Genius and crew prove to everyone that ND can actually do it this year.

Go Irish!
chrisnd | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:43 am | #

I agree with CanIHoldYou. We are a top ten team. Only a top ten team would have a #2 heisman candidate. He would not receieve many positive votes if we were not a top team. In fact, look at all the close games many top teams have played. Ty almost beat USC for pete's sake. The main reason he lost is because he is such a bad coach and has no clock management skills. BTW, lest you not forget, our comback against MSU was away so stop griping about that one. It was a tough atmosphere to play in for sure. Believe me, I was there. For a while it was like Hurricane Katrina.

Anyways, the pump fake was not planned. BQ used it to improvise and then he rolled out. That's what good quarterbacks do.

Our defense looked a lot better this game. They have potential especially now with my boy Joe Brockington in there. We held them to 29 rushing yards! That's pretty awesome. The O-Line needs to improve, that should be everyone's concern. That's it, I am out.
DH | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:46 am | #

I disagree with the assertion that BQ isnt shaking of sacks like he did last year. He is under way more pressure than he ever was and often he avoids the first rusher only to be hit by the second (or 3rd, or 4th). If anything, version 2006 of BQ is stronger than last years.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:49 am | #

Brady is great. I just wish he would get rid of the ball when he's being chased out of the pocket. The 15 yard sacks are killing the O.
Josh | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:50 am | #

Coach Weiss has picked his poison by sticking with Darius Walker as his one running back and desire to establish a running game to take pressure off passing. He gains a proven receiver, a good pass blocker, smart blitz reader, good ball handling (UCLA fumble was a tough one), a pick and choose runner, who has been very strong and durable. The explosive speed to avoid being tackled from behind and the ability to cut to juke would be tacklers are not there. In this day of 4 and 5 receivers and FB as rare as hens teeth, your RB better be fast and if he’s not fast, then he’d better be fast. All this has been well talked about on this Blog and every watering hole where they let Catholics drink.

Coach Weiss has made opponent game plan development one step easier. Send blitz packages up the gut to pressure the QB which has the effect of plugging the running lanes as well. A fast and quick runner can more quickly adjust to this, pop it outside, avoid a tackle or hit a hole before it closes.

I’m not very clever when it comes to this, but I’ve seen it every week this year. They give us the short flats to the WR or RB, short over the middle to the TE, and guard deep and long against our WRs. They just have not had to worry about a running game based upon speed.

So where are Aldridge and Prince? So Coach Weiss is waiting for game to be in control?
Rotate running backs? I don’t think he operates like that, I maybe wrong, I’ve only seen a year and a half of his coaching at this level.

If he’s waiting to be in control of a game, then Navy may be it. They are hurting but coming off a bye week, and while this is not the big game for them, it is the one they recruit for.

Well, back to work. Somebody beat this up. I have not been slapped around for a couple weeks now.
PhilB | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 11:55 am | #

Who's this "Coach Weiss" guy?
DJ | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 12:09 pm | #

DH, are you honestly saying that you can use Brady's standing in the heisman balloting to rank us in the top ten? That's absurd. WHen brady had dropped out of the convo (after Michigan - and before WOlfe got stuffed and Peterson got injured) were we still a top 10 team? come on... according to your reasoning GTech and Rutgers are both top ten teams because they have guys in the convo (Rice and CJ).

frankly, i don't necessarily think we're "overrated" but I could not object to a voter putting Tenn, Arkansas and / or Cal ahead of us (maybe even Clemson, given the ass woopin' they put on GTech) ahead of us. are we bad? by no means. Do i want to see us play any of those teams? no
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 12:12 pm | #

BTW, don't know if it was intentional or not but nice Radiohead reference.
SeanH | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 12:25 pm | #

We've got to give the UCLA defense props. They really played a very good game. Charlie didn't run wide or reverses because the Bruin DEs are lightning fast. He stuck to straight ahead runs which UCLA defended well. Their LBs eliminated our staple screen plays, and their secondary did a great job on our WRs as evidenced by the coverage sacks and BQ's several throw-aways. The only real mistake they made was not blitzing in the last minute. Our O-line was not solid. Darius is not Reggie Bush, but I don't think he was the reason for our lack of run productivity-- there wasn't much there. Aldridge and Prince should help us in this regard in the future, but to expect game-changing plays from them last Saturday is premature.

In my opinion, Brady's being so composed on that last drive won the game. As inconsistent as he's been this year, he has been NFL-good in the 4th quarter.
Sam | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 12:51 pm | #

DJ -
Weiss was the family name Charlie's great grandfather presented at Ellis Island before the immigration officer shortened it to Weis. Sorry for the confusion. I don't think Coach Charlie Weis can spell my name either.
PhilB | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 12:56 pm | #

chrisnd -

I'm not sold on USC's "overall weakness." they're number 3 in the nation, and if they are still undefeated by the time we face them, they will be 2 or 1.
Fred | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:04 pm | #

Brad --

I could not take my eyes off the UCLA dancers a fact of which my fiance took note. They were mesmerizing to say the least. They reminded me of the strippers/dancers from the awful Keanu Reeves movie, The Replacements.

I especially liked that they did only about 3 different things, the best being when they simply bent over.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:18 pm | #

http://mishuna.image.pbase.com/ g...70.DSC_0028.jpg
Jake | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:22 pm | #

BQ's quote on the pump fake from espn.com

"I thought I saw a window, I was about to throw, then I saw a defender coming that way so I kind of gave a pump and I tried to move him around," he said. "When there's that many guys in coverage, you've got to try to create something, so I moved out of the pocket and found a window to Jeff and he did the rest."
Fred | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:23 pm | #

Anon, my point was just about ND being a top ten team. If we throw out the rankings, I agree that Tennessee, Clemson and Cal would be stiff competition for this team head to head, but my personal opinion is that any of these teams would beat Texas or Louisville right now, and give West Virginny and Florida a run for their money. I'm not delusional, ND would be 6th to 9th in my poll, but there's no way I'm ranking Boise St., Louisville or Arkansas ahead of ND, which is what it would take in my opinion for us to fall out of the top ten.

As far as the running game goes, Walker may have his flaws but consider what a pass attempt would have looked like last saturday with Aldridge blocking. Possibly not very pretty. And if I remember anything from the buildup to this game, it was the emphasis on ULCA's speed. This is not a recipe for a pitch out to Darius so he can try to 'turn the corner.' Unless by turn the corner you mean jiggle 5 yards behind the line trying to juke a linebacker until he's put on his backside.
CanIHoldYou? | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:24 pm | #

ND is NOT a top-10 team. We are an inconsistent 6-1 team.

Let's review.

Squeaked one at GT.

Played well v. PSU.

Played badly - then quit v. Michigan.

Stole the flag back from MSU.

Beat a porous Purdue team.

Beat pathetic Stanford.

Won home squeaker v. mid-tier Pac-10 team.

Why we AIN'T top 10:

1) No consistency. One complete game all year - PSU.

2) Offense isn't clicking. Finesse OL is weak & porous. What are the pertinent O stats v. last year?

3) Defense has not come around. What are the pertinent D stats v. last year? When coaches juggle lineups to find "starter" output - you ain't top 10. Just ask Talley.

4) FG Kicking is a joke.

On the bright side:

A) Our punting unit looks better than 2005

B) Four cupcakes before USC.

We aren't top 10, but we can still win a BCS bowl game.

Go, Irish!

TLB
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:48 pm | #

Regarding the offensive line problems...Stewart Mandel (SI.com) has noticed as well:

10/22/2006 02:17:00 PM
Five Things We Learned This Weekend

2) That Notre Dame’s offensive line is a mess. Make no mistake, the Brady Quinn-to-Jeff Samardzija game-winning touchdown pass Saturday was a stroke of brilliance. But how, you might ask, did the Irish get themselves in the predicament in the first place of needing a last-second miracle to beat a mediocre UCLA team playing with its backup quarterback? Because for all the star power on the Irish offense, they continue to be plagued by an overmatched offensive line. Saturday, the Bruins had five sacks and held ND to 41 yards rushing, and the Irish now rank 99th in the country in rushing offense (97.4 yards per game). Charlie Weis’ team has won every game since its Sept. 16 debacle against Michigan, but I’m not sure it’s gotten any better.

http:// sportsillustrated.cnn.com...weekend_22.html
Andrew | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:55 pm | #

chrisnd -

I'm not sold on USC's "overall weakness." they're number 3 in the nation, and if they are still undefeated by the time we face them, they will be 2 or 1.
Fred | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 1:04 pm | #

The only reason I mention the "overall weakness" in my comment is because the country is used to seeing the USC that was during the 2003-2005 run. During this three year span, USC has always been strong, and has not had problems beating most teams. The MOV's were pretty high, and USC was a "dominating" team - what OSU is this year. However, the 2006 campaign for the Trojans has been a "struggle" as evidenced by the way they have beaten their opponents. Take out Arkansas, and they have had some trouble in their games. Identical to ND's current year.

All I am saying is that USC is a "weakened" team when compared to prior years. They are just like ND, doing exactly what it takes to win, and squeaking by on last-moment heroics.

Oh, and they may be #2 on the 25th, but not #1. The winner of OSU / UM goes to #1. No doubt on that one.
chrisnd | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 2:15 pm | #

I love hearing the OSU fans bitch about ND barely winning. Their last NC how many of their wins were last second? The squeeked by half their games, and everyone just said tressel was a great coach.
BLT | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 2:39 pm | #

Above all else, I'm ecstatic about the win; I would still be in the dumps had we lost that game (a feeling a grew way too accustomed to in the BobTy Davingham years).

If Brady says it was a pump fake, then I'll believe him. Up until then, I was on your side Matthew: because his arm motion was so long (pump fakes are usually short and quick), it looked like he was about to throw, and then saw a defender. To Sean H's (I think?) point, it was still an incredible play. You can't go to throw a football and then hold up at the last second unless you're strong like bull (and, as BGS showed us last year after the 'SC game, Brady is RIPPED!).

JohnWA, I think you made this point- why the f*ck can't Weis get our offense to play with some urgency BEFORE the end of the game?!?! The Irish don't win this game under BobTy Davingham. In fact they'd be 3-4 at best with losses to GT, MSU, and UCLA. So yes, CW makes a WORLD of difference.

I just don't understand why our offense can't be more productive earlier in the game. The offensive game plan sucked; too many 7 step drops (whatever happened to the screen the the WR or a 3-step slant) and our running plays are WAY too vanilla. After hearing how Oregon shredded UCLA with an option like attack I expected some misdirections (like the old counter-trey the Redskins ran forever), a reverse or two (ala the Grimes TD against Stanford), or SOMETHING to take advantage of the Bruins speed/over-pursuit. Yes, they do have a good defense, but I expect the robot genius to come up with something that will work.

Oh and one last thought- the old saying that all a prevent defense does is prevent you from winning. If UCLA plays the same D it did all game instead of prevent, we don't win.

On to the throttling of the academies and North Carolina!!
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 2:40 pm | #

UCLA didn't go into a prevent at the end of the game. The defensive call on Shark's TD was exactly the right call for the distance and situation. The safeties were back to stop the long routes, the LB's clogged the middle, and the corners took away the sidelines. They ran a stunt with the DL to the strong side and speed rushed the right. You are matching up a good DE against a freshman RT, and I'm sure the stunt was done with the expectation that Weis wouldn't call a max protect considering Carlson's superior pass catching ability versus his rather vanilla blocking skills. UCLA had been having success with a 4 man rush, and the rest of the defense was giving away the short part of the middle of the field and forcing BQ to throw it there. I was completely frustrated after the euphoria of the win wore off because that play just showed that ND has better players and shouldn't have needed a last minute miracle to win.

I don't like to complain about Darius because he does a lot of things very well and he's been productive, but I agree that Weis needs to get a second back out there to give defenses a different look. Darius deserves the majority of the carries and to be on the field most of the time because he opens up the screens and RB out of the backfield catches, but when the O-line struggles and Darius isn't getting it done, get Aldridge or Travis or someone out there that can maybe hit the hole with some speed and power.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 3:02 pm | #

Yeah ND had a great comeback drive Saturday but let's face it, they were outplayed and should have lost. ND isn't as good as everyone thinks they are. It wasn't bad coaching by Weis on Saturday -it was bad execution. Now everyone can talk about this "miracle year" or "team of destiny" stuff but the bottom line is that USC is going to whipe the smile of brady Quinn's face at the end of the year. You think the Trojans are weak? They are much, much stronger than UCLA. Look at their strength of schedule!! They are a very young and inexperienced(and injury-laden right now) team who will be much better come Nov. 25th. I don't care if they lose to both Cal and Oregon, they are going to expose ND.
Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 3:20 pm | #

Ummm, I'm as honest as anyone admitting that we were (and still are) WAY overrated. But I refuse to tremble in fear of a USC team that squeeked by WSU, ASU, and Washington in consecutive weeks. Geez, even poor Ty probably would've pulled off the upset two weeks ago if not for the fact that the officials screwed them out of 2 seconds.
the other scott | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 3:44 pm | #

I agree. Complaining that ND is overrated at this point is a little silly. Clearly they have flaws, as most teams do, but I'll have a smile on my face if we keep getting it done as we did saturday.

I would also like to see another look at RB if only to give opposing DC's somthing to worry about. I've also been hoping for some more gimmickry - you don't see it much in the NFL because defenses are so well prepared, but in the college game it can wreak havok. tOSU is getting alot of mileage this year out of reverses and other trick plays if you ask me. We've had success early with these; I wonder if the explicit emphasis on simplyfying the offense in response to our problems moving the ball has been been a reason we've seen less of this. We sure seem happy to go for it on 4th down. Maybe we had a little too much respect for their speed - or a little too much confidence in their inferirity. That direct snap to thomas against PSU shook them out of their jocks - Maybe those calls are in but we just aren't getting the looks to pull the trigger. Sounds like something like that may have been the case on the failed 4th and 1.

If I was USC I'd be worried about ND though. Look at the opponents they play in the stretch leading up to us - they won't have a leisurely tuneup for the game the way UM did. We on the other hand should be well rested and have plenty of time for some helpful 'installations.' Let's just hope we can keep it close in the 1st half.

I just don't want to lose to Urban Mayer in the Sugar Bowl if that's where we end up come Christmastime. Anything else is gravy.
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:08 pm | #

13 of 14 for 236 yards, and 3 TDs. These numbers should be trumpeted by those promoting Quinn for the Heisman, specifically ND's SID. If Quinn is going to win,it will be becase he's seen as a Montana type "comeback king"
Flann | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:13 pm | #

Yeah you're right, it's a given with one play 15 yeards out that it's going to be a touchdown. And what do you mean by "even poor Ty" -like he doesn't measure up to Dame standards? Well I guess relative to your unique "screwing a coach out of a contract" standards, he measured up quite nicely. I'd like to see the Irich play those 3 teams in consectutive weeks and see how it turns out, seeing as all 3 are better than UCLA. UW was ranked in the top 30, WSU just shocked Oregon and is now in the top AP 30. ASU was ranked the first half of the season and is widely considered to be a very talented, underacheiving team. At least USC doesn't go out and schedule games with the teams that probably have most of their players in IRAQ!! Who has ND really beat this year? Penn State and Michigan State both suck. Georgia Tech is pretty good and that's the only good team ND has beaten. Refuse to believe what you want, but when you don't have your best player(including 1 game without your second best) and you still beat 3 teams with winning records in a row, it says a lot. USC has the talent, they just need a new offensive scheme so they can blow everyone out and abide by the NCAA moto "a win is not a win."
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:20 pm | #

I said it last week and I will say it again: BQ isn't so good with the long ball. Unlike the talking heads, I don't think his miss early in the game was an anomoly. Still love the guy, just stating my assessment.

Also, with Powlus coaching him, how can he possibly fail to execute Powlus' featured play - throwing the ball away.
Fenian Fox | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:24 pm | #

Who is this 'first Scott' moron? Nobody has said anything disrespectful about any other team and here we are celebrating in our still euphoric state and this aS* clown has to come and try and stir some stuff up. Stick to your boards buddy and come back the week of the 'SC game. And re: the service academies I don't really disagree with you on Air Force and Army but I will say that it beats playing a Ball State or any Division II school which som many teams did.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:40 pm | #

chrisnd -

"Oh, and they may be #2 on the 25th, but not #1. The winner of OSU / UM goes to #1. No doubt on that one."

assuming, of course, both OSU and UM are unbeaten going into their game :P
Fred | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:55 pm | #

I bet the first Scott probably thinks he should enlist before he gets drafted.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:57 pm | #

Hey Anonymous, nice to meet you buddy. You really have a way with words. I come from New York City by the way. I'm not saying ANYTHING disrespectful that isn't warranted(Ty Willingham.) You should be euphoric about the win. Quinn is a stud when it counts -and ovverrated at other times. And I love Weis and you'll never catch me dissing him. I'm stating the obvious. You have to understand that ND gets preferential treatment and is somehow excused from criticism (if USC had been handled by UCLA and barely beat them they would get murdered in the press.) There is NO WAY that the Irish should go BCS if they lose to USC! But because of some lame clause, they probably will. It's just kind of funny to see Quinn all smilley after the game with his #1 finger up after he barely beat UCLA, especially for us realists who understand what really just happened: ND was outplayed and Quinn doesn't deserve Heisman talk after not exposing a weak UCLA defense. By all means, you should celebrate...but remember, remember the 25th of November.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:59 pm | #

Scott-

Dont be a jerk. Im all for having people from other teams add to the discussion on the board. But coming here just to praise USC, and rip ND, is just stupid and a waste of time. I know it might make you feel good, but you're not going to convince any of us. Feel free to disagree, but please do it a little more tastefully than saying how USC is going to expose ND. Show some class.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 5:13 pm | #

Thanks for the heads up Chris, you're a saint. Have you been reading the posts? I'm not here to praise USC- I only started defending them once someone dissed them and I'm not a ND hater...I really like Weis and Quinn but I am calling it how i -and all those who aren't blinded by green blue and gold- can see it. I also think ND will have a tough time with Air Force(see Tennessee game.) I know you all think that's a ridiculous statement but then again, you are all bias. It's funny that you claim tolerance when you call someone a jerk for simply saying your team and QB are overrated. I'm not calling you guys jerks for dissing USC. It's just my opinion -don't take yourself so seriously. As for the Ty comments, I stand by them and I think your program should be ashamed by how you handled it. If that's why you think I'm a jerk then you simply have a lack of character.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 5:36 pm | #

wait... a U$C fan saying Domers lack character? Come again?

I mean, I'm not going to say that the Trojans are as thugish as the U, but come on. Spare me the homerism. This site (and others) have repeatedly ennumerated the myriad reasons why Ty was dismissed. It had everything to do with getting his name in teh record book for all the wrong reasons (3 consecutive 31-point losses to your beloved trojans being exhibit A). He is not a good football coach, and ND would have been foolish to stick with him for another two years, especially since he was unwilling to get rid of his terrible assistants.
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 5:41 pm | #

For now, it may be a pretty good idea for our boys to focus on Navy. All indications are that, even with their starting QB down, we had better bring our 'A' game (and start rattling those rosaries!).

The one truism playing out in '06 is that nothing on our schedule is a given. It will be surprising to find us "rolling" into any game. As for USC, they might not be at the level of the past 3-4 years, but they are no less than "best of the rest" at this point of the season. When PC needs to push the "win" button, he does (and with a young and, to date, injured team). There are no two other teams (combined) that I dislike as much as I do the Trojans, but while we can beat them, we'll need that Lady on the Dome to be doing some heavy lobbying on our behalf. (Nickname for USC: "the heathens of the West)

Someone mentioned we are a Top-10 team .. due to our having a Heisman candidate? Um, we once had a Heisman winner on a team that struggled to win two games. I need a lot more enlightenment on the 'Top-10' postulate.
-----
'Charlie Weis’ team has won every game since its Sept. 16 debacle against Michigan, but I’m not sure it’s gotten any better.' Stewart Mandel, SI
-----
That seems to ring true (re-posted here). I think that when we look back on this year, we're going to recognize all the more the helluva job tha CW did in the great turnaround year of '05. Also, that ND is the one team that will never get to fly under the radar; ergo, we can't surprise too many teams this year. Maybe we dramatically over-improved last year. If someone told us the day CW was introduced that we would be a Top 8-12 team on 10-23 of his second year, we'd have been quite pleased.

People (ourselves included)are too quick to overlook a cornerstone fact of CFB: every opponent we play is coming in at bowl intensity. Every one of those teams has us as their No.1 opponent for that season (despite what you may hear from Treeland, we are no lower than opponent #1A for those guys).

Having already lived through one Irish season that dramatically mirrors this season, the disappointment is shedding a little quicker, and the reality arrived much sooner. It's ('06) getting more interesting now. It'd be nice to see us play more evenly, less manic-like from here on out. One exception: may history repeat itself [see ND v. USC, 1986].

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 5:42 pm | #

First Scott,
Having lived in London for 2 years, I couldn't help but notice your play on the Guy Fawkes night chant. Thank you for this enlightening addition to your otherwise idiotic amateur punditry, for your vitriolic anti-ND comments are now much better understood in light of this obvious anti-Catholic bias.
Oscar_Dillon98 | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 5:45 pm | #

Im just saying there are better ways to "defend" your team than "we're gonna wipe Brady Quinns smile off his face..." stuff. Anyways, AFA did give tennessee fits in the beginning of the season, but that same AFA team just lost to previously 0-5 San Diego State. That's pretty bad. If anything, I would say Navy would have a better chance, history aside. And come on, please dont act like USC is the epitome of character. I know every program has their share of problems, and USC has had theirs (i.e Reggie Bush booster money, player rape allegations, etc). So dont play the character card. Im curious, do you go to USC?
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 5:56 pm | #

I don't go and never have gone to USC. I live in NYC. And Oscar, man your 2 years in London clearly exhaustively-enlightened your mind to the wisdom of the UK's history. My girlfirend's family is devout Catholic and I love them....not to mention so many of my friends who love Notre Dame. Why don't you hop in your self-righteous, adolescent psuedocollegiate-absorbed mind vacuum and make some constructive remarks when you've grown up. You have no idea what you're talking about, you master pundit. And I'm NOT PLAYING ANY CARD!! The Ty comment was a response to a Ty statement. USC and most collegiate schools have their own unique violations. Just don't pretend to be some mighty school when you have shown your hypocrisy. You guys are so defensive. My comments are circumspect Notre Dame's football season, that is all. You're probably right about Air Force...and I considered Navy until their poor showing against Rutgers.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 6:21 pm | #

Oh and someone compared USC to Miami...wow. USC is one of the finest overall collegiate schools in America. It's academic standards are higher than 95 percent of the rest of NCAA divsion 1 schools. When USC and LSU shared the national title, LSU had close to 30% graduate and USC close to 70%. I respect Notre Dame for having solid standards academically while emphazing high character at the same time. -although i would argue BYU has you beat in both areas there. And Domer, you're just digging a bigger hole by defending Dame's (literal) betrayal of Ty. I don't care who you are or how your school is doing athletically, character is much more important than winning football games. Wow I didn't realize how narrow-minded people can be.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 6:38 pm | #

I know it's accepted that Weis is a genius and all, but I'd like someone to distinguish this game from the typical Bob Davie win over Navy.

We played like crap all day against a mediocre opponent, we displayed terrible playcalling/clock management (qb sneak on 3rd and Goal from the 6 with 17 seconds on the clock? wtf? yet another qb sneak on 4th and 1 on our should have been last possession?), but at the very end a superior play by a superior athlete bailed us out.

Why did it take 59:30 to think about maybe throwing to our best player more than five yards down the field? We don't look any better than we did against Ga Tech. Thank God USC isn't so tough this year.
hippstar | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 6:52 pm | #

chrisnd -

"Oh, and they may be #2 on the 25th, but not #1. The winner of OSU / UM goes to #1. No doubt on that one."

assuming, of course, both OSU and UM are unbeaten going into their game :P
Fred | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 4:55 pm | #

Yes, Fred, of course that was the assumption. However, do you honestly feel that it could be any other way, other than both team being undefeated? #1 and #2 will meet in Columbus on November 18th undefeated based on the following facts:

Fact #1: OSU warms up with Minnesota (at home), Illinois, and Northwestern.

Fact #2: UM plays Northwestern, Ball State, and Indiana.

Seriously, is there any doubt that either of those teams will make it to the Shoe other than 11-0. It will be the game of the century, given the long-standing rivalry (and the fact that we are only 6 years into the century...).

In the meantime, "the first Scott" your comments are welcome here, except for those comments directly related to the treatment of Ty Willingham by the University. Ty Golfingham was a bad coach for our school, and did not deserve to be there any longer. Look, he was a second choice after all. He was an afterthought. And he lost to USC, ND's greatest rival, by 93 combined points in 3 short years. And that is only one of a multitude of reasons.

Are you also aware that Ty's final recruiting class (i.e. the current campaign's Juniors) are made up of 8 scholarship players? Out of 25! He single-handedly ruined Notre Dame's recruiting standards, and dropped us below the top-25 for the first time in history. Oh, and by the way, if you didn't notice, he still hasn't beaten USC since he left.

I could go on and on about how Ty was not the coach for Notre Dame. Maybe if you were a ND upperclassman or an alum, you would understand. But instead, you sit on the OUTSIDE of what Notre Dame is all about, and see it like the rest of the uneducated collegiate pundits as nothing more than the Administration's undeserved firing of a (black) coach. But it is more than that. Ty failed. Ty failed miserably. If you are really interested, go ask those students who attended school their during his coaching stint. Go ask the players. Go ask the administration. Go ask the alum. Nearly everyone who has had an intimate relationship with that school (and the football program) will agree that Ty's firing was well merited, well deserved, and not a betrayal.

Not any more of a betrayal than what Ty was doing to our program.
chrisnd | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 7:09 pm | #

Hippstar,

re: the horrible play calling. I agree with you but I just wanted to clarify one thing. On the QB sneak on 3rd and goal, Weis sent in a run/pass play combo where Quinn could check to the run if he had to. Weis said that Quinn thought he had the middle open (ala GT) but was proven wrong. Weis taled about this in his presser.

To everyone else,
Yes our team has flaws and no we are not as bad as some are saying we are. Our schedule is rated in the top 20 and you have to be somewhat decent to go 6-1 against that schedule. Let's drop this USC crap and jump on their wagon until 11/25. We need them to win out as much as they do so Go Trojans, beat ducks and bears!
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 7:31 pm | #

"ND was outplayed and Quinn doesn't deserve Heisman talk after not exposing a weak UCLA defense."

That weak UCLA defense was ranked #9 coming into our game.

Stanford has a weak D, and we hung a solid 31 on them. Not spectacular, but solid.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 7:32 pm | #

Scott,
"I don't care who you are or how your school is doing athletically, character is much more important than winning football games."
Could you please put that in a memo to Pete Carroll?
Thanks.
Oscar_Dillon98 | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 7:42 pm | #

I just dont buy into your assertions about Ty. I guess I can understand why, and I hate to even talk about this as it's really beating a dead horse, but you have to understand the three years Ty was there came on top of Bob Davie's mediocre tenure. So it wasnt so much just Ty, as the school got tired of nearly a decade of mediocrity. I would say that's why we fired Ty, not racial motivations (Notre Dame is NOT a racist institution, and anyone who says so clearly knows little about the university). I will concede that perhaps we didnt handle it all that well, but to question the character of the university over the firing of a football coach (one who we are STILL paying millions of dollars), is probably a little unfair.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 7:50 pm | #

when our warrior scholars take the field
all that doubt at last must yield
well composed in academic course
under the blue gray sky, a conquering force.

New York Fan, among the scotts foremost
kilted, baits his gaelic host
'no just cause' his angry cry
defending wronged but stoic ty

But think before you cast those bricks
at golden domer catholics
You may want to save your cold reproach
for when your once beloved knicks
fire a one-term Hoosier coach.
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 8:58 pm | #

*wipes tear off cheek*
Oscar_Dillon98 | Email | Homepage | 10.23.06 - 9:20 pm | #

JohnWA, impressive breakdown of the last play. What, were in you in the booth with the ND coaching staff?

You might be right, but when I see BQ complete the first pass to Shark for 20 yards on the sideline with NO ONE around him and then the next to GRIMES with NO ONE around him, that smells like prevent to me.

That's not to say the comback wasn't unbelievable, stunning, fantastic, etc. etc. Just that if UCLA plays the same defense they'd been playing the whole game, they probably have a better chance of stopping us. I understand why coaches play prevent (don't want to get burned, be too over agressive when you don't have to, etc.), but to me, there's got to be some happy medium between your regular D and the all-out prevent.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 12:12 am | #

I am not sure where all this SC talk comes from. They are pretty underwhelming themselves this year. Quinn is a stud QB. Takes his licks, stands in, doesn't complain that his line gets mauled.

The "experts" fell in love with the offensive firepower and didn't put enough weight on all new LBs (one a converted senior TB) and a returning secndary that can't cover consistently. Then an O-Line that had to start a frosh.

No way this team could have been ranked where they were to start, but regardless, the season still sets up well and I like Brady's chances of orchestrating his first win over SC on his finale in their house.

Just as I am sure people aren't fearing the Irish, USC scares me nil.
Irish Fan | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 12:15 am | #

Irish Rat:

It was exactly what you described. A medium between their normal D and an all-out prevent. Watch the game tape analysis linked on this exact same post. You'll see on the first play, Shark just runs a freaking awesome route. One that takes time, and BQ has to roll out, but an awesome route. They are in cover 2, and NOT prevent. Grimes also definately doesn't "have no one around him." He actually falls down right before the catch. He is only open by a slim margin and BQ nails him. And as for the last play, definately a good call by them... IF we aren't in MAX protection. If we don't keep in our TE AND our RB (7!?! blockers), they could easily have gotten a sack they way they were playing. The line stunt with cover 2 and just a nickel defense (not prevent) was a good call, BQ and Shark just made an utterly unbelievable play.

Summing up, just because something "feels" like prevent to you, doesn't mean it is. Our analysis should be based on football knowledge and fact, not on feelings.
Kyle | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 1:09 am | #

Oscar, what are you referring to? No coach is as outspoken against free-wheelin agents as Pete Carrol is, mostly because his camp generates the most interest from outsiders. If Bush did what they said he did I think he should return the Heisman. As far as I know he hasn't been convicted on any charges but then again according to Chrisnd, I'm uneducated. Thanks Chris, especially since you're from Notre Dame, an acadmeically-inferior school to my alum. I don't think you're uneducated, but simply unethical. You're right though, i shouldn't slander the University -but people like you who fail to see the issue in a moral sense. Everyone in the sports world regarded it as unfair so why is Notre Dame above the rest? And why did Bob Davie not get fired after 3 poor seasons? As I recall, Ty went 8 and 1 his first year just as Weis did, at which point Weis got that fat extension. Why wasn't that extention there for Ty? By the way, the team that sorry betrayer of yours- Willingham- presently coaches, handled UCLA by 10 a few weeks back. Weis didn't handle anyone Saturday and lucky for him, Quinn stepped up when it mattered most. I like Quinn -he has character. As for USC, I've seen them play a lot this year. Their raw talent is unbelievable...did you see how their healthy team crushed Arkansas and Nebraska? ND may be older but they aren't even close when it comes to talent. I hope all Irish fans continue to understimate USC until that day...it will be all the more sweeter. And then there will be next year...a predicted scrimmage.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 1:56 am | #

I don't remember calling you uneducated at any point, and I did'nt think this discussion was about this. Furthermore, calling anyone immoral or uneducated based on their ideas about one issue is not fair to anyone involved. One opinion does not make a person immoral, and in my opinion, insulting a person's character or morality is just about as deep as you can cut someone. You're taking this issue a step too far by calling people who support ND's decision inherently immoral.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 9:20 am | #

Also, the reason Weis got the contract extension so early in his career was the circulation of rumors of him going to NFL. The administration chose to end those rumors before they began to damage recruiting. I completely agree with you that USC is light years ahead of ND when it comes to raw athletic talent - for now. Another reason Ty was fired as because of his lack of recruiting his last two years (question that? Look at next years Senior and Junior classes, much the cause of the predicted "scrimmage" you mention). The fact is, USC's combined opponents have a record of 32-21, for a winning percentage of just over 60 percent. ND's opponents are 36-25, or just over 59 percent. I understand USC's schedule is very bottom heavy, with ranked teams looming ahead, but the truth is, right now, neither team has a distinct advantage in terms of the competition that have faced.

If you choose to read one part of this post, go to this link and read it: http://www.ndnation.com/boards/s...q;pid=20; d=this

maybe then you will understand.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 9:52 am | #

..."an acadmeically-inferior school to my alum"...

I really should stay out of this trainwreck of a conversation, but it's a little too hard to take this guy seriously.

For what it's worth, you can be an "alum," but your school cannot. The school you graduated from is your "alma mater."
indiana | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 10:01 am | #

god that guy just won't quit. We can talk all we want but unfortunately we have to wait for 11/25 and as for Ty. All I am going to say is that he landed on his feet and has two paychecks coming in. That doesn't mean its right or wrong, just means that I would want that 2 if I got fired.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 10:05 am | #

Im really tired of this conversation too. I have no beef with USC (at least none that cant wait until 11/25) so I really want to drop it....

I just cant.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 10:09 am | #

Scott the first,

I know more than a few new york and new jersey guys myself, so I'm sure you are enjoying instigating on this board, regardless of the facts. At the risk of interfering with your fun, On the Ty issue there have been many well written explanations on the boards of why this firing was justified - and believe us, nobody was more excited than we were when he was 8-1. Read what's been written by people who know ND football and if you still feel he was wronged, we'll have something to talk about. Until then we'll just have to continue to be annoyed that another person who cares about college football has an uninformed opinion on this issue.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 10:13 am | #

Reviewing Ty's first year - since it's apparently lost on some - the ND offense didn't have a sustained drive until what, the 6th game? Not a single sustained drive. Until the 8th game, all of the "wins" were engineered as points after turnovers.

Ty was, and no doubt, remains, a leader of young men. Just not on a football field.

His lifetime record speaks volumes about his prowess as coach: 4-3. Or perhaps that's 5-4.

That he has almost beaten 3 or 4 PAC 10 teams this year is meaningless. His current O has been put together by a new offensive coordinator, who came from the NFl.

As Mark Twain said some 100 years ago, "First get your facts straight, then you may distort them any way you please."

Those are the facts, now you are free to distort them.
Tom K | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 10:35 am | #

At this point the first Scott is just trolling. I have a couple of other SC fan friends here in New York, and playing the Willingham racism card seems to be a popular theme. The record speaks for itself, so I recommend we just ignore him from now on.
Although, I would love to know at which "academically superior" institution he matriculated, considering the number of spelling and grammatical errors in his posts.
Oscar_Dillon98 | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 11:29 am | #

Ok, you guys are firing in all sorts of directions that I've convinced myself I'm a racist USC alum (thanks for the correction of the alma mater thing by the way. It was 2 in the morning and clearly wasn't thinking.)

I am not a USC alum and I never intended to get you guys all pissed off. I said I can't wait for Notre Dame to get exposed by USC. I didn't come on here via any USC agenda. I simply responded to things that had been said and apparently a nonbias opinion(about the UCLA game, Ty, ect. can't be handled by most of you. You choose to get pissed off or mad -i can't make you do that. Read my comments rationally and then respond constructively.

I didn't come on here with any Ty Willingham agenda. I made a comment regarding what someone had already said about TY. And Chris, you may be right but are you sure that all the school's rationale wasn't just an attempt to convince themselves that it was just? But I'm sure I don't know the whole story. You did compare me to uneducated college pundits. I didn't call you immoral -I made the observation that you weren't looking at it in a "moral" sense.

Furthermore, I"M NOT PLAYING ANY CARD! I'm not a ND hater! I didn't get on here to slander ND!! I never called you racist -race was never mentioned in any of my posts. If anything, ND is less racist than most other schools.
And I don't hate Catholics. Everytime you here someone reference Guy Fawkes you shouldn't start shooting your mouth off in the name of bigotry.

I'm getting tired of myself.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 1:22 pm | #

I have to comment on the comparison of the 2 schedules. You can't be saying that ND has as tough a schedule as USC? EVERY team they play this year is from one of the BCS conferences. Their 3 non-conference games are: Arkansas, Nebraska and Notre Dame!! They have to play in the PAC 10 where 8 of the teams have a winnning record. Washington was 4-1 when they played them and Wazzu was 3-1. They still have to play Cal, Oregon, and Notre Dame -not to mention their rivaly game with the team that just outplayed you Saturday!! And by the way, UCLA is the 6th or 7th best team in the PAC10. I really don't want to side with computers...but they do rank USC's schedule as #1. You guys play Army, Navy and Air Force every year!! Is Georgia tech still ranked? They wern't when you played them and the only other ranked team you've played embarrassed you in your own backyard. Notre Dame usually has a relatively tough schedule -it's hard to know if some of these teams(Penn State) are going to have good teams year in and year out as is expected. But this year, the schedules aren't comparable.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 1:38 pm | #

This is gonna be my last comment: I never called you uneducated. That was ChrisND, not me. Just for the record.

And no, Im not saying ND has as hard a schedule as USC. I clearly said, USC's schedule is very bottom heavy, with a lot of difficult teams coming up. I am just saying up to this point, and I believe the opponents records overall support that. Furthermore, you point out that "washington was 4-1" when you played them, fair enough. In that same light, up until Stanford, each team had been undefeated as well. (Penn State 1-0, Michigan 2-0, Michigan State 3-0, and Purdue was 4-0)

Last thing, we do not play Air Force, Army, and Navy every year. I don't question you have valid points, but your arguments are not researched well, at all. Actually, Army and Air Force are additions to the schedule and we are not scheduled to play them again until at least 2012 (if not later). Navy is the only game we play every year, and have been doing so for a very long time. ND owes a bit of debt to the Naval Academy for helping keep the university open during WWII, and welcomes the rivalry to continue for as long as possible.

And here endeth my thoughts.

I apologize to all the readers of the board who are tired of this argument and me.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 2:04 pm | #

This has never been an argument for me. I made comments and you chose to take exception. When I mentioned someone calling me uneducated, I referenced CHRISND but you made the mistake -not my fault. As for the schedule, I did some "research" and you are playing Air Force next year as well. I was wrong about every year...it just seems every time I turn on NBC(Notre Dame) football I see an Armed Forces team running around. I also noticed ND scheduled Duke and Stanford along with Navy and Air Force at the end of the year. Wow. ND's schedule last year was weak as well...you did not deserve a BCS bid over a team like Oregon who had 1 loss -to the #1 team in the country. And as for this year, if you want to say the schedules have been even up till now, fair enough. But USC has only trailed for a little under 5 minutes the entire year and hasn't relied on any miracle comebacks. They also lack a loss...especially a lopsided one. They also haven't been outplayed by any team where as Notre Dame, well, there's Michigan, UCLA, and Michigan State. But a win is a win, even if you win ugly.

I hope Notre Dame continues to win. It's better for the PAC10 and USC and it makes the college football season more exciting when ND is playing well.

Good luck against Navy this week. But remember, remember the 25th of November.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 2:49 pm | #

Didn't Dorrell himself say that he was in the "prevent" defense at the end of the game? I may be wrong on this, but I thought I read that in one of the post-game recaps.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 3:56 pm | #

First Scott,
Pretty sure we won't forget 11/25. Should be a great game, hopefully half of what last year's was. As for our schedules, its way 2 early to tell. Last year at this point MSU was a one loss team and lost the next 6 of 7. Not saying WSU, UW, or any other PAC-10 team (besides Stanford) will do that but its 2 early. And re: the service academies, your right but if thats the only thing you have to harp on than go to Auburn's board and talk to them about playing Buffalo and Tulane.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 4:01 pm | #

Can he please stop with this "remember remember" refrain crap? I actually find it very offensive that he continues to reference such a violently anti-Catholic song (albeit a reference that most don't pick up on it) with every post he makes.

Does he have the balls to go to Grambling's message board and quote a Jim Crow song? Didn't think so.
imposs1ble | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 4:35 pm | #

First Scott - let's get one thing straight here. Notre Dame never plays a weak schedule for the simple fact that Notre Dame CAN'T play a weak schedule. With all due respect, even during their glory run, USC was never a top opponent to more than 3 or 4 teams a year. For local revenue, the Trojans talk up their game with UCLA, but ND is and always has been their Top game of the year (even for the 20 or so years when the Trojans left CFB -- see '82 -'02.

One other point that even most ND fans fail to make note of: the '05 schedule, prior to the season, looked possibly to be CFB's toughest in history. Many, such as you, salivated at the thought of an 0-6, 1-5 start to the season. Didn't happen. USC had to revert to play outside of the rules of football to possibly beat the Irish. But, back to the 'point': had the 2005 Notre Dame team truly been overrated, it wouldn't have won the number of games that it did. That simple FACT is what prevented history from saying "The 2005 Notre Dame team played 8 Bowl opponents.

And, um, that was in a "weak" season. USC plays a nice sked every few years. They've never played one close to matching ours re difficulty, at least not in the same year. Personally, I feel that USC is not getting their due this year. But I can tell that, once again, they are saving it up for their 'season,' November 25. What a glorious legacy, to be able to proudly exclaim to the world that they rank so high on Notre Dame's opponent list (and have a pretty darn good winning percentage against us all time!).

BTW - whatever happened to the USC cheerleaders? As has been well-noted on this board, UCLA's now rule the roost. At one time, it was USC.

While I personally believe that SC is a definite 2 or 3 this year, please tell your darlings to bring their 'A' game to the Colliseum on 11-25.

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 10.24.06 - 10:46 pm | #