Before anyone starts to comment about Notre Dame playing Navy, Air Force and Army, which is more than a tradition, the people that have a gripe should remember that Ohio State will have played Northern Illinois, Cincinnati, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota and N'Western. Their top games have been Texas and ...
Let's say the Buckeyes and Irish switch schedules..

Irish have played 1 ACC, 4 Big 10 and 2 Pac 10.

Buckeyes have played 2 MAC, 3 Big 10 and 1 Big East and 1 Big 12.

To date have the Irish played a more challenging schedule?

Yes they have.

Look at the last 10 years. How many MAC and Big East schools have finished in the top 10 vs. the ACC and the PAC 10?

If the Irish and Buckeyes switch schedules, Irish are #1. And if you're about to compare them to Texas, the only formidable opponent that the Longhorns have had on their schedule since OSU... last week's 2 point miracle against Nebraska? Wins vs. N. Texas, Rice, Sam Houston State and Baylor, of which they had a tough time with Baylor in the first half?

I am tired of everyone talking about schedules.

These are games are scheduled 2 years minimum before anyone knows anything about who has who recruited.

I am proud, and Notre Dame's players should be as well, that they get the priviledge of competing against our nations academies.

Got to go and check on the kids-who are Weis-rish fans, too!
T | Email | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 10:58 pm | #

My one regret from a trip last summer with the family to Annapolis was forgetting to go visit the tomb of John Paul Jones. His remains were repatriated in 1913 from an unmarked crypt in Paris, and he now resides in a super cool tomb at the Naval Academy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Ima...lJonesgrave.jpg

He is most famous for the courage he displayed during a naval battle between his Bonhomme Richard and a larger British Dreadnought Serapis.

From Wikipedia:
With Bonhomme Richard burning and sinking, it is believed her ensign was shot away. The British commander asked if she had struck her colors. Jones has been quoted as saying, “I have not yet begun to fight.” He then rammed Serapis and tied up to her, his marksmen in the rigging clearing her decks so a boarding party was able to cross and effect her capture.

The Bonhomme Richard subsequently sank from damage inflicted during the battle, and John Paul Jones became an eternal symbol of fighting spirit and courage.

Navy, all respect to you. Here's to a great game Saturday.
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 11:08 pm | #

How about that Clemson?
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 11:09 pm | #

Further testament to the profound mediocrity of the Davieham Era:

Nmber of times Navy came within 7 points of beating the Irish during the thirty three meetings between 1964 and 1996 (the end of the Holtz era):

Twice.

Number of times Navy came within 7 points of beating the Irish during the eight meetings between 1997 and 2004:

Four.
Murph | Email | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 11:24 pm | #

T,
I second that emotion re: the privelege of playing all three academies. Here's a story about Navy Day, which uncannily occurs tomorrow, eve of the Battle of Baltimore:
http://www.defenselink.mil/afd/m...itary/ navy.html

P.S: I've already advised wifey and grad sons that my 60th birthday present WILL be the Navy game in Dublin, 2012.
onehipdad | Email | Homepage | 10.26.06 - 11:51 pm | #

I root for Navy all but 2x a year: the ND game, and the Army game.

('98 ND Grad, Captain in the US Army)

Go Irish!
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 12:06 am | #

That's cute. You guys barely beat Michigan State, you get WAXED by Michigan (at home, where OSU gets to play them), and if you have their schedule you're National Champions?

Do you want to backtrack, maybe dig yourself out of a little hole there?

I was going to comment about how I was shocked that Notre Dame has done so poorly versus the service academies (though admittedly Army and Navy were good 60 years ago). Michigan and Ohio State play their share of MAC teams, but I can't remember the last time they lost one of those games.
Justin | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 1:05 am | #

Just no sense of history whatsoever. Anyone who can criticize ND for losing to Army or Navy in the WWII era (when Army alone had 2 National Championships and 2 Heisman winners from '43-46) simply has no football credibility. None.
imposs1ble | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 1:36 am | #

Hey Justin,

Nice drive by posting. Afraid to put yourself out there for some real scrutiny, huh? No surprise there, typical state school behavior. Bring some facts. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight little boy.

I don't think anyone is saying ND would be walking away with a national championship. But, I think its quite reasonable to point out ND's schedule is competitive with anything Michigan and tOSU face. Except, why is there so much news media degrading ND for playing the academies?

That's the point of the post.

The academies should not be disregarded by fans of teams that pack their schedule with Northern Illinois, Cincinnati, Bowling Green, Indiana, Minnesota and N'Western. Unless you pride yourself in your ignorant hypocrisy.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 1:46 am | #

T - Stanford has 0 wins. UNC has 1.

Indiana has 4 wins, and NIU and Garret Wolfe would probably give ND a run for their money.

Go win a few more "thrillers" against the service academies and enjoy the free W's.
S | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 3:34 am | #

S,

My point - everything is cyclical. Schedules come and schedules go. Before last season started, I do remember the media saying that ND's schedule was the toughest in the country. The tune changed at the midpoint of the season when Michigan and Tennessee weren't the powerhouses that the media thought they were and ND was slammed for an awful schedule.

As for this season, Navy has 5 wins, Air Force has 3 wins, and Army has 3 wins. If we're comparing against the Big 10, then Northwestern has 2 wins, Minnesota has 3 wins, and Illinois has 2 wins. I can pick and choose my facts with the best of them.

All schools schedule games years in advance making it difficult to forecast quality, so the odds are just as good that the Irish would have pulled a 5-1 UNC squad and a 4-2 Stanford squad. Also, without the injury to Navy's QB, ND could have a 6-1 Ranked Navy squad to deal with in Baltimore this weekend.

In 2004, ND played 5 teams ranked in the final AP Top 25. Last year, only 2 teams were ranked in the final Top 25. The schedules were identical except for 1 regular season game and the bowl game.

For example, tOSU's schedule contained 4 different teams outside of the Big 10 conference schedule, 2004 saw them play 3 ranked teams and 2005 they had 3 ranked teams in the final AP poll. In 2004, 0 non-conference teams were ranked. 2005's schedule had 2 non-conference games against ranked opponents. OSU's Big 10 affiliation saved their strength of schedule in 2004. Last year, it didn't do much for them.

Before you start throwing stones, it would be kind of you to share your own affiliation so we can do equal time on the scheduling issue and have an intelligent debate on the matter.
Schnitzengruben | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 6:16 am | #

The same Garrett Wolfe who blazed Western Michigan for 25 yards and powerhouse Temple for 45?
Chris | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 7:43 am | #

Justin & S -

For the record, Notre Dame's strength of schedule thus far is higher (i.e. more difficult) than OSU's. According to the Sagarin rankings, ND's schuedle is 15th while OSU's is 22nd.

Let's look at upcoming games. OSU plays the following teams before Michigan: Minnesota (45th team in Sagarin rankings), Illinois (93rd), and Northwestern (121st...yes, behind some IAA teams). Average ranking: 86.3.

ND plays the following before playing USC: Navy (39th), North Carolina (125th), Air Force (53rd), and Army (103rd). Average ranking: 80.

Thus: ND's schedule is ranked as more difficult thus far, and as of today, is more difficult leading up to the penultimate game of the season for each team. In the final game, OSU plays Michigan and ND plays USC. Right now that's pretty much a wash, since those teams are 2nd and 3rd, If USC drops a game before ND plays them, that will drop ND's strength of schedule a bit.

However, the point is that ND's strength of schedule has been tougher than OSU's, and projects to remain as tough or tougher for the rest of the season. So, on what basis do you OSU fans criticize ND's strength of schedule?

OSU gets to play the patsies of the Big Ten, while ND plays some service acadamies. At least the service acadamies often put together winning seasons and go to bowl games (especially Air Force and Navy, moreso than Army in recent history). That's more than can be said for the dregs of the Big Ten.

Am I saying that ND is better than OSU? No. All I am saying is that OSU isn't playing a tougher schedule than ND, so all the knocks on ND's schedule coming from OSU fans are ignorant at best.
Domer '99 | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 8:26 am | #

Amen.
Domer Dan | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 9:01 am | #

Pat,

Current win streak is 42 vice 43. Don't get ahead of yourselves.

Go Navy!
Paul | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 9:45 am | #

I know these lurkers get our dander up, but let's just ignore them. These debates about strength of schedule are pointless, and irritatingly repetitive as anyone who reads this blog regularly knows.

Maybe we need a FAQ responding to this nonsense (Ty, Service academies, ranked wins, etc) and then we can respond to drive by posters with a concise URL and get back to the thread at hand.
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 11:00 am | #

ND's dedication to scheduling Navy each year (and Army and AF other years) is equal to that of a conference schedule...sometimes you play teams, good or bad, for other reasons not related to the W column.

I am sure that OSU, Michigan and the rest are not considering dropping IU, Illinois and the like anytime soon in football...why should ND not be extended the same consideration.

Oh, and with the exception of the Faust era AF losses and a goofy tie with AF, I don't think that ND has lost to any of the academies since the 60's w/ Navy.

There is great tradition with these rivals, unrelated to football.
John B. | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 1:08 pm | #

"Indiana has 4 wins"

Really, "S"? This is your response?

Indiana's wins:

-Western Michigan, at home.
-One-point win over 2-6 Ball State (a game the Hoosiers trailed 23-7 at halftime)
-Two-point win over 2-6 Illinois
-Iowa, at home (okay, this is a decent win, but the Hawkeyes are 5-3 and currently unranked, and needed a goal-line stand to beat Syracuse)

Indiana's losses:

- Southern Illinois (I-AA)
- Connecticut, who is 3-4, a team Navy beat by 24 points (UConn held IU to 7 points).
- Wisconsin (by 35 points)
- Ohio State (by 41 points)

*THAT'S* the team you're going to offer up as providing superior schedule strength than the service academies?

And I like and respect NIU, but they are 5-3, and lost to Ohio U. at home.

Uh, try again...
NormC | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 3:49 pm | #

Fun reading the conmparison of the rest of our sked versus OSU's -- I knew the buckies always shrank from anything tough schedule wise (per Woody's orders) but I never realized just how bad! (thank you, Domer99).

What really sets us apart from the rest is the underlying reason for the Navy series. If you mentioned that to an OSU fan, in particular, you'd hear an Old Milwaukee pop-top, a "sheeeeiiiit" .. and a poor dog getting kicked.*

*If ANY OSU fan can come here and tell us of the true history of the series, I'll personally rewrite history and say that Woodrow Hayes wasn't a piss-poor excuse for an adult male (only a few OSU fans would ever call that trash-bin a man).

To more important matters: I've said this before, of how all the guys who played would answer 'Navy' when asked about which of our opponents played toughest, never giving up. I have great respect for those Middies. While I want us to beat them, here's a salute to a fine squad of men!

Go Irish!
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 6:39 pm | #

hey, take it easy on my Hoosiers guys. Have a little respect for what my man Terry Hoeppner is doing down there. Can I respectfully ask that we use Illinois as the example of a Big 10 bottom feeder? After all, they did have a historic game against MSU.
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.27.06 - 11:02 pm | #

Two other points re: O$U:

1) When was the last time O$U played a MAC team on the road/neutral site? Answer: never.

2) What was the result of the last time O$U played a service academy?
Answer: AF 23 O$U 11 (1990 Liberty Bowl)
Irish_Angst | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 12:44 pm | #