Rutgers beat Navy 34-0. Rutgers, yes, that's not a typo...34-nada. Sorry, but I'm not impressed with our "D". And, I think the blame falls squarely on Minter. I don't think for a minute that Rutgers has better "talent" than ND.
brian89 | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:03 pm | #

Not impressed with our "D" at halftime.
brian89 | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:03 pm | #

gee, 3 and out...hmmm, maybe minter made some adjustments?? ha!
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:11 pm | #

man, do we draw more out-of-bounds hit penalties or what? how weird...
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:19 pm | #

troy who?? haha! what a run by old brady!
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:22 pm | #

Ndukwe has no business being out on that field. None.

He gets blocked out of the play every single time. Glenn Earl and Gerome Sapp are somewhere shaking their heads in disgust right now.
Robb | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:32 pm | #

Okay, that time Ndukwe didn't get blocked. He just took an incredibly poor angle to the ball carrier, which allowed him to get to the corner and gain 7 yards. Get him out of there immediately.
Robb | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:33 pm | #

never thought I would say this, but can we get lambert to teach zibikowski how to do an open field tackle?

I'm not happy with the ND defense right now, but the option is why I started watching ND way back when - so a small part of me is excited to watch it chew up a defense again.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:36 pm | #

Navy's FS on that last possession is sweet justice for having an "injury" on 4 & 2 and not calling a TO.
onehipdad | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 2:43 pm | #

man, we FINALLY have a 3rd receiver! grimes had a coming-out-party last week and continues to get better. impressive.
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:00 pm | #

why are we surprised Ndukwe is taking bad pursuit angles? He and zibby have done this every game. Its why we 'look' slower than everyone else. We dont take the correct angles to the ball.

Zibby and Ndukwe were both offensive players in H.S. and came into ND as that. Are we really surprised by this?
Good news is that we are recruiting and getting pure defensive players and not changing people into hybrids.
brian q | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:04 pm | #

btw, check out auburn who is SOOOOOO much better than us...yeah, right...
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:05 pm | #

Time to pull BQ charlie
Matthew | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:09 pm | #

man, aldridge runs so physically! wow!
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:12 pm | #

I love Aldridge. Can't wait to see what he looks like in two years.
ND Guy | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:12 pm | #

so, how far will mich. fall since they only beat NU by 14 at home? they must drop surely, right? ND dropped when they barely beat GT. what was the spread on the mich. game?
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:17 pm | #

Love Aldridge. I hope he shows the coaches that he can get 10 touches with the first team by USC.

Brian, I'm not so much surprised as disgusted that Ndukwe has shown no improvement whatsoever in four years. I don't know if that's on the player, the coaches or both.
Robb | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:22 pm | #

Did I hear the Auburn loss to Arkansas described as a "hiccup"? But ND's loss to UM shows we're not a clear BCS contender, right? I hate these CBS s**theads -- and I don't care if the priests at Notre Dame hear me say that ... ;)
John | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:31 pm | #

john, i think one of the espn guys had ark. RANKED ahead of ND when asked in a chat to rank the 1-loss teams! jeebus...and auburn lost to ark. at home, and almost lost at USC and now is up a whole 3 points at ole miss!
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:35 pm | #

Updated Quinn vs Tryo Smith Stats (through first 8 games)

Troy Smith:
1,715 yds
21 TD passing
2 INT
67.9% completion rate
0 rushing TDs
Heisman moments: Ridiculous throws and scrambles, 50 yds TD strikes after almost getting sacked.

Brady Quinn:
2,233 passing yds
21 TD passing
4 INT
63.7% completion rate
2 rushing TDs
Heisman moments: Directed two come from behind victories, one in the last 70 seconds of a game and one on the road in a monsoon in the 4th Q. Makes clutch plays.

I am not saying Troy Smith is not deserving of all his press and hype but for people to sya he is running away with it, I just don't see that. If TS waxes UM than it is his no doubt. But if he even has a slightly below avg. day and BQ beats USC, the race will(or should be at least) tight.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 3:58 pm | #

I agree PM, and the real telling stat is the total yards.
Darius Quinn | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 4:42 pm | #

and how bout the rushing td's? i bet nobody would've thought that brady woulda been ahead of smith in THAT category! haha!
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 5:25 pm | #

Kind of like last year when Matt Leinhart had more than Vince Young.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 5:27 pm | #

John Saunders: "Brady Quinn padding his stats"...

$cumbag.

And what about Troy Smith padding his stats against Bowling Green, NIU, Cinncinati, Indiana, PSU,.... oh wait he only got 14 points against PSU.
PZ | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 5:32 pm | #

I might be uttering blasphemes, but I am really rooting for MI to kick the sh*t out of tOSU with that defense.
As far as I can tell, OSU has not even faced 'whole team,' meaning haveing both good offense and defense. Troy Smith has not faced a legitimate secondary (Texas was playing 3 backups) and has not seen a d-line like MI.
After seeing their average performance against Penn State (frosh QB gifts the game to them), I suspect MI should be able to wrap them up and grind it out. After MI kicked us in the mouth, its hard not to respect that club and wish them to win it out.
I just want everyone here to recognize and agree with each other that we just need to win a bowl game first. Thats all I want.
that being said, who do you want to see our boys line up against?

Florida scares me with our defense...
Auburn scares me with their defense...
Texas or Tenn maybe? Louisville?

I dont know who else we could realistically compete with at this point.

If we beat USC, they boys should have some confidence. But I do lack serious conviction about our defense against the majority of these teams in the top 10.
brian q | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 5:32 pm | #

Hey Guys, Mr. A here,

I really thought the first half was competitive, and had PJ been a little more aggressive early this could have actually been fairly close.

Those who've read my blog entries know that I'm something of a ND fan (except today, I hate you all), but I've got to say I was not impressed with the ND defense. Give Navy's offense credit, but I really thought the ND defenders would be better coming off blocks and do a better job getting penetration. I hate to admit it, but Rutgers has a better defense.

Anyway, I enjoyed the game, even if we lost. Next year should be a really interesting game. BEAT USC and Good Luck with the BCS!
Adam | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 5:35 pm | #

Mr. A - we all know the truth about our defense. Is it as horrible as we believe, or can you tell us something about your 'o' that we didn't know. BTW - we are thankful that your # 1 QB is out, or we got an 'l' hung on us.

Of course, the events transpiring out West, as this is being written, put a certain level 'closure' on our season ... kind of like a mercy killing.

Again, we all salute your boys in Blue ... those Middies never, ever say die. Class.
Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 6:09 pm | #

jeebus, is anybody else watching USC getting BLOWN out right now by OREGON ST.???

you naysayers can say all you want about how ND can't play with this team or that team but this year is proving that ANYONE can beat ANYONE on any given saturday. and remember what we did to PSU and what tOSU needed against PSU?

parity has arrrived to CFB, folks and it's here to stay...
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 6:10 pm | #

I'd like to play the winner of the big east.
Darius Quinn | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 6:11 pm | #

wow, is the poodle stupid! goes for it on 4th and goal with 3 minutes plus left in the 3rd qtr!! and down by 23!! you need points there. you HAVE to take the FG there! stupid, stupid...and they don't get it! no points after first in goal...wow...
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 6:18 pm | #

Touchdown USC!

Yes, I'm cheering for them, WE need to beat them, nobody else. Though I'd love to see the poodle with 2 loses, or more, this year.

I noticed Cal has a bye week this week and is one spot below us, does this mean they jump us in the BCS since we won again?
jaisn | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 6:24 pm | #

Bill,

Don't put words in my mouth now. I've watched and taped every Irish game this year. The defense has some talent and certainly is much imrpoved, but the fundementals just wern't there today. Playing Navy's offense isn't easy, especially when PJ gets two weeks to prepare. It's all about reaction time from a defensive standpoint, and how quickly the defense can come off blocks and get into the right position. That and you've got to tackle, which Tommy Z and that defense had some trouble with today.

Beavers are driving...

-Adam
Adam | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 6:41 pm | #

We still probably would've won even if Navy had had their starting qb. Their defense couldn't stop us, and in the 2nd half our defense shut them down(more or less). I agree it would've been closer and you could probably count on Hampton for 2 more td's, but we still would've pulled out the victory.
Tim | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 6:42 pm | #

USC LOST. Aghhhhhhhhhh. It's strange to have been cheering so hard for them. Wow this suckssss.

Only good news.... mabye now ND v. USC tix prices will go down??
NDSenior | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 7:23 pm | #

Just arrived back from Baltimore and a lovely Irish win. The weather was certainly something to behold; before the game, the weather vacillated between ND permacloud and Navy blue skies. Eventually, it turned into a beautiful day, apart from a nasty swirling wind in Ravens stadium. Talking to some of the more seasoned veterans of the stadium, though, I learned that the wind tearing us up in the stands did not make it down to the field.

The midshipmen were out in force before the game, and we invited some to stop by our tailgate for food and/or beers. They were selling pins saying something to the effect of "Beat Notre Dame." We respectfully declined to purchase the pins, and the midshipmen accepted our offer of food but respectfully declined the beers. Duty first. Class all the way.

I must say, I take no pleasure in beating Navy. This is not to say that I do not enjoy a win or that I think they are not a quality opponent. Rather, I would prefer that adding a number in our win column did not require the addition of a number to Navy's loss column. I wish Navy the best of luck the rest of the season, and in a different way than I selfishly wish our other opponents luck for the sake of our BCS standings.

Overall, despite our defensive troubles, it never really looked or felt like ND was not in the driver's seat, although I did not feel comfortable with the direction of the game until Grimes's TD (early, I know, but there was a palpable sense of momentum that developed when Grimes caught that ball...a momentum that obviously built during the remainder of the game.) Also of note is the fact that beer was available for purchase throughout the game. This of course was both a blessing and a curse, because the game went much faster than I remember most games going at ND.
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 7:44 pm | #

KJ and Brian Q,

we will be glad to beat you guys again this year in the national championship game. Of course, your theories of "look what we did against PSU and look what OSU needed to beat PSU" clearly point out that you have not learned yet what rivalries, emotions and weather situations can do to help keep games closer than they appear. For example, did you get the feeling that Mich. was ever in trouble today against N'western even though the so called best defense on the planet gave up 300 yards of offense today in 30 mile per hour winds and rain?? No. does it mean that Michigan isn't one of the five best teams out there because they didn't beat the Kitties by 50?? No. That was typical Carr football especially in poor weather. Our rivalry with PSU has only grown over the past 13 years and they will always play us tough... and we played them in a driving rainstorm which produced a more conservative game called by Tressel and company. Does this mean that we are not the number one team in the country or that we are not worthy?? No. Just as it does not mean that ND isn't worthy of being in the top ten. Hey, as much as you guys have had problems again on D this year, you've only lost once and that's what counts. No one is impressed with ND, nor should they be. However, again, it doesn't matter, you beat SC and you're in the BCS somewhere. I can only hope that we play you again in Arizona after we beat Michigan with nice weather and a fast field so that we can guarantee another title and run circles around you guys for the second year in a row. Good luck.
byron murrill | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 7:49 pm | #

You know, I watched this game and while happy with the win, the NCAA rushing stats they showed at the beginning stuck with me the whole game. After watching Navy's option run all over us, I think we all need to shutup about West Virginia and their schedule, since they're the only team who rushes for more than Navy. I'm not sure how anyone could have watched that game and not think that Slaton and White would have 100+ each on us. Sure, they haven't played anyone, but their closest game was a 17 pt win. Better than we can say.

Oh, and about USC--we're not going to the BCS championship game, so whether they won or lost really doesn't matter. If we had a shot at the NC game, then maybe--but at this point we've got too many undefeateds and one-loss teams for us to make up ground on. We won't jump the loser of the tOSU/UM game, and we won't jump whichever team comes out of the Big East undefeatd (if one does), and we won't jump a one-loss SEC team. ON the other hand, USC could lose 3 games and it won't keep us out of the BCS--an 11-1 ND team gets in, no matter what.

Good game today from the offense, but Air Force scares me even more now.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 8:07 pm | #

You stay classy, Columbus.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 8:08 pm | #

I am sort of amazed by some of the reactions here. The defense was bad and getting worse when Charlie was hired. Everyone knew it was the achilles heel of the team, now people seem surprised that it is not world class. Yes they gave up almost 300 yards rushing to Navy, but that is what Navy does, they run, run, run and then run some more. Yes they had more success against the defense then they should, but again, this was a terrible defense and is not yet very good. For all of that, they held Navy to 14 points and the game wasn't in doubt after basically the 1st quarter.

I did not think Notre Dame was NC quality at the start of the season, unless things fell exactly right. They are what they are. A very good team, dangerous quick strike offense with a fair/middlin running game, mediocre defense and a team with very strange player balance. Keep winning and they will make a bcs bowl, just possibly not the Championship. That became nigh unto impossible after being pasted by the Wolverines. Sorry, it's the truth.
okhrana | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 8:15 pm | #

Let's keep things in perspective:

Over 300 yards, yes.

BUT

Only 14 points given up.

And since we scored *more* than 14 points, it doesn't really matter how many yards they compiled.

Plus, I'd be interested to see the average starting field position...it seemed like the Irish were routinely getting the ball at the Navy 48, whereas Navy was starting their drives inside their own 20. Am I dreaming that?
doug | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 8:23 pm | #

"And since we scored *more* than 14 points, it doesn't really matter how many yards they compiled."

We play against WVU, they finish those drives and put points up. Really this whole "hey, we scored more points" attitude is touching, but sounds awfully similiar to "that's good enough". "Good enough" against Navy isn't "good enough". Our defense is not good. I see no reason to be happy about that. In the previous post's comments, someone had a great point--RUTGERS has a #1 ranked D and held Navy to 0 points. You can't convince me that Rutgers has better talent--so the remaining factor would be coaching and scheme, no? Whenever we start playing defense at the start of the game, maybe we'll be decent--until then, sorry, but I'm not happy with Minter. Navy shouldn't be averaging 7+ yards per play against us--you certainly can't blame that on a talent advantage.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 8:34 pm | #

We have all been suffering from the idea that Charlie and his staff could keep getting our guys exponentially better year after year. I'm afraid the leap from 2004 to 2005 was about all they are going to be able to get out of the "group that Ty built". They have turned some three star players into four star players, but getting them all up to five stars is probably out of the question. In coming years they will be starting with more talented recruits and then the NC's will start coming our way.
BillB | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 8:42 pm | #

Rutgers had two weeks to prepare for Navy and as I maintained in the Q&A segment deserves to be ranked 1st in total defense in the NCAA. The loss of BH in the game two weeks ago demoralized the Navy "O" and made us look worse then we really are. The only thing ND's defense needs to worry about is the tackling, because like it or not Navy's offense is going to run for 250+ yards against everyone. Give the Navy offense credit for executing in the first half, but give ND's defense credit for tightening up when it counted.
Adam | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 8:47 pm | #

byron,

what i am refering to, as TT is up 2 TD's on texas, is that ANYONE can beat ANYONE on any given saturday this year. tOSU and mich. included. and it's gonna stay that way, i think, for the foreseeable future.

parity is now the norm and it makes a mockery of such stupid things as human polls based on "style points."

until we have a CFB playoff, i believe ND will get hosed by the human polls MORE than they will get benefits by the human polls.

oh, and byron, i understand your point about PSU and rivalries. but guess what? ND has to play a "rivalry" game EVERY week! and if you think that is hyperbole, well, you just don't know much about college football. EVERY team is up for playing and beating ND MORE than any other program from week to week and year to year.
kj | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 9:01 pm | #

USC lost... I wanted ND to beat them. Whatever



Go Irish
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 9:13 pm | #

Texas Tech is on pace to have 1,876 yards passing tonight against Texas.
Clashmore | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 9:17 pm | #

This game shows why ND should play Navy every year indefinitely into the future. Option football is just plain fun to watch. No, it's not great seeing guys get 4 to six yards running it down the throat of your defense down after down, at least, not unless you are a football fan. Seeing Navy hit those crisp pitches time after time, mix in the odd reverse, and their hard hustle on every down up and down the line made me feel this is what football should be. Sticking to assignments, rolling blocks, runners looking for lanes in a shifting line and defenders trying to key on their man through the melee to keep from getting gashed. AWESOME. Forget a playoff, let's outlaw the forward pass. Thanks Navy for a great game and showing the nation what football is really about. Not prima donna 'skill' players, but execution of the basics and heart and guts. I like T.O. on a fade route, but somehow can't see him making it through SEAL training like alot of these guys will in a few years.

Props to you all.
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 10:21 pm | #

FUCK!!!!!!!!

There was only non-ND team I didn't want to lose today. I watched ND close up shop embarked on my halloween drunken merriment, stopped at home for a bit, and the night is thorougly ruinated.

FUCK!!! FUCK!!! FUCK!!!

My sincere apologies to Bad Notre Dame Daddy's kid.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 10:22 pm | #

I see a lot of complaints about the D and people sad for Pete Carroll on this board today. Did anyone else just plain enjoy this game as much as I did? Dang, I'd give my left ventricle to go to the game in Dublin in - 2012?. (the one with the sausage lodged in it.) Do you people realize that the football season will come to an end here soon? Fer crying out loud, ignore all these OSU fans comparing us to Rutgers and try to enjoy yourselves! Teams that do things the right way don't get to have championships every year. This was a great football game. Sue me if I can't shed a tear today for Slappy. Go Irish!
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 10:27 pm | #

Texas sucks. They don't deserve to win this game.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 10:46 pm | #

Pretty gay that Texas won. Everything bad happened for ND today... Florida barely won, UT barely won, Auburn barely won, Troy lost. Gay.

Nduke and Zibby were so overrated coming into this year. The whole team was actually. They squeak by Michigan State who gets massacred by everyone else they play. They made Purdue's offense look good (they got shutout today). UCLA looked the Steel Curtain against ND. It's so frustrating. It has been so long since ND was awesome. It has been thirteen years of mediocrity mixed with awful.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 10:56 pm | #

iNDy, I'll admit watching the option like that is pure poetry in motion. It IS an extremely hard task to defend this offense. I'd love for Navy to have 7+ per rush against any other team...not us though.

HOPEFULLY we'll adjust and can improve against Air Force in 2 weeks.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 11:27 pm | #

The option is poetry in motion until you get down by two touchdowns and then you can't throw the football because you do nothing but run the option in practice.

Guaranteed Ohio State vs. West Virginia national title game? That would be a cool game.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.28.06 - 11:54 pm | #

Does anyone else remember Minter's last tenure under Holtz? Wasn't he the proponent of the "bend but don't break" philosophy that drove everyone crazy? I remember wanting him gone back then, and then one day he was gone. I remember issues with the secondary, lack of speed, missed tackles...? Am I wrong?

The difference back then was we had Joe Moore, and a consistently great offensive line.
unclemikey | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 1:43 am | #

AJ, you're comment is vulgar and classless and has no place here.

SC lost to an unranked team...let us rejoice and be glad. Best case scenario...ND wins out, Brady Quinn wins the Heisman, ND wins their bowl game and the NC game is a big fat crashing boring blow out that no one gives a crap about, thanks to the absence of a CF playoff.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 1:19 am | #

Some observations from today:

Texas is waaay overrated and doesn't deserve to be in any talk for a NC game. Like ND they are BCS bowl worthy but not NC. Any team that gives up over 300 yds passing and 3 TDs in the FIRST HALF and needs two 4th qtr stops on 4th down from generous sports does not deserve it.

The UT TT game makes you wonder about tOSU. Iowa has since been exposed and Texas doesn't look very hot. With Michigan's more physical play, it is seeming more and more likely that they will hit tOSU in the mouth and win.

Auburn is overrated. Squeaking by Ole Miss is not a Top 10 team move. Tennessee is the best out of the SEC right now. They are dominating people and playing great FB. If they play UF again, I think they win right now. aing will be a top Heisman contender next year.

USC is a gutsy team.

John Saunders sucks more each week. I didn't think that was even possible.

Brady is making his move into (or back into) the Heisman race. More than one announcer/commentator sounded to be jumping onto his bandwagon. With Troy Smith's unstratospheric stats and because of the weapons around him, I think with a bad game he would be exposed in the eyes of the voters. Not saying its true, but it seems with those weapons he should be either throwing for 300 yds each game or throwing for over 200 and running for >50 yds. His highlight reel isn't that hot.

sorry for the long post.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 1:38 am | #

In response to Byron (the seemingly uneducated college football fan):
Obviously you are a tOSU fan.
Obviously you think Columbus is the center for college football.
Obviously you haven't payed attention before 2002.
Obviously you love Tresselball.

On behalf of college football fans,

I would like to welcome back tOSU to the college football elite. Its nice to have another Big 10 team again to back up the claim that is an allegedly superior conference. Seriously, 1970 to 2002 is thirty two years. Seriously, I will gladly accept a Davie and Ty instead of 32 years. Be that as it may, if things are looking bleak with your exodus of tressalball stars next year, just take a look at your 2007 schedule and be not dismayed:
Youngstown State
Akron
Washington
Northwestern
Minnesota
Purdue
Kent St.
Michigan State

Again, welcome back. And with schedules like that, we will see you here for some time.
brian q | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 2:12 am | #

In response to PM..

If Auburn is overrated, and not top 10, for squeaking past Ole Miss, then ND would be overrated for squeaking past MSU & UCLA... therefore, I prefer to think Auburn is a top 10 team, just not better than ND.
1qa | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 3:32 am | #

Let's face it: there is no "dominant" team this year, certainly not up to the caliber of USC and Texas last year.

And an OSU-WV NC game would not be "cool."

Nice AP story on Landri-Laws in the NY Times today.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 9:04 am | #

You're right. OSU/ WVU wouldn't be cool. It would be "very cool".
Keyser Soze | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 9:54 am | #

The naysayers on this thread are absurd. Anyone who watched the games this week should be able to recognize that ND could hang with, and quite probably beat 50% of the time, Texas (can you say pass defense?), Tennessee, Auburn, and SC; we could hang with Florida, too, and I take it that WV doesn't defend the pass well either. Every team has its problems, the Irish clearly among them, but the idea that we're miles away from the elite or not a top ten team is simply ridiculous.
John | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 10:54 am | #

i think the bottom line is... we know rankings dont mean jack. Any team can lose on any saturday... and any team can win on any saturday.
brian q | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 11:05 am | #

I'm over being disappointed with this season because other teams ranked a slot or two higher in the Harris poll aren't losing their games. We don't deserve to be in the national title picture this year - at least, unless I'm appointed head of the NCAA and get to crack down on payoffs and phony curricula. Then we'd be playing the service academies for the title every year. Either that, or I get to be our AD and negotiate which officiating crews work our games.

tip for lurkers: a real ND fan does not think a game between West Virginia and tOSU would either be close or interesting. Despite the fact that the Louisville/WV game will be hyped to the sky, when WV blows them out this will not suddenly make them a legit contender. And while OSU has been impressive on the field this year, we are prouder of our program and legit student athletes than you realize. So don't bother coming on our boards talking smack. We could win too if we let our DL take courses in 'Football' with coach. Your superiority is only relative to similarly lax programs such as U$C and Auburn. When and if we win a title under Charlie, it will come with something more valuable than a glass football - honor. hey lurker, get some!
iNDy | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 11:53 am | #

Prouder? Dude, I am an ND fan and I think Ohio State/ West Virginia would be a good game. This isn't North Korea. I'm entitled to an opinion. Should I run all my opinions through you first? Would you be prouder of me if I did that, Captain Mensa?
Lurker | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 2:14 pm | #

Here's some perspective on yesterday's ND-Navy game:

#11 ND "held" Navy to 271 yds. (46yds. below their season average) rushing en route to a 24-pt. win. ND scored the last 21pts, unanswered, and had its backups in for much of the 4th quarter.

#11 Tennessee "held" Air Force to 281 yds. rushing en route to a 1-pt. win. Air Force scored the last 14pts, unanswered, with both teams playing their starters until the final gun.

Meanwhile, in the Oops! I Did It Again! category, in the AP Poll ND stayed at #11 despite winning by 24pts., with Clemson dropping from #10 to #19.

Meanwhile, Cal, whom the voters all thought was not quite as good as ND the prior week (at #12) jumped over ND to #10 based on a significant 63-0 pasting of The University of Idle.
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 3:38 pm | #

My only thought on why we got jumped (again) by an idle team is retribution for Weis's comments/complaints this past week about the polls.
B | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 3:43 pm | #

So Notre Dame's porous give up the big play D is one of the voters' concerns about our team, but Texas giving up 35o yds in the air and 3 tds in the first half isn't pause for concern. Huh, interesting. Texas almost loses to @ the time 4-4 and 11pt underdog Texas Tech and they move up. Regardless of Notre Dame, how did Texas show that they were the #4 team in then nation? Tennessee goes in and pastes USC on the road and at night and they don't get very much. Can someone explain this to me?
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 4:12 pm | #

How did they release a poll with a T25 team playing tonight?
clashmore | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 4:28 pm | #

The media sucks
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 5:04 pm | #

The strangeness of the polls is officially out of control, and it almost (though just almost) makes me happy that we have the computers around. How does UT squeak out nailbiters against Nebraska and Tech -- and basically get smoked out by tOSU -- and have such a huge advantage in the #4 spot? Plus, how is it that Auburn -- BLOWN OUT by Arkansas -- and Southern Cal -- they lost to the BEAVERS, for heaven's sake -- have such a wide points margin above us (they're almost as highly ranked as WVU and Florida)? Factor in the fact that the computers have Cal ranked as the THIRD BEST team in the nation and, well ...
John | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 5:06 pm | #

OK, I need for someone to explain this to me ...

ND loses a game to an undefeated team (both then and now), ranked (then) in the top 15 and subsequently recognized as one of two teams "clearly" head & shoulders above the rest and drops to #12 and has pretty much treaded water since.

USC loses a game to a team with 2 losses, that was unranked previously, and remaines ranked above ND.

Apparently, they get points for putting on a "stirring come from behind effort". Of course, when ND puts forth the same sort of effort and (oh, by the way) actually wins the game, that's cause for derision.

This isn't just about SC ... We'll get our shot at them. It's about the lunacy that is the poll system. If the same logic applied to everyone, I wouldn't have an issue. Unfortunately, close games for ND are reasons to question their ranking. Close games for most others are cause to celebrate their intestinal fortitude.

What a joke. We NEED a playoff system.
Irish Right | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 5:06 pm | #

normally I wouldnt write emails to the likes of Mandel and Co. But this is friggin B-freakin-S.
What is worse is seeing a team like LSU, with not terrible losses to Auburn and Florida get bent over, for other teams like Arkansas, BC and Boise State. Tiger fans should be more pissed than Irish. We need to kick thi sh*t out of USC.
Dammmnit I am so mad.
brian q | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 5:37 pm | #

Seriously, Tennessee who has played better than 90% of the Top 25 is getting no respect. Them and LSU should be royally pissed. Can't wait to read Maisel's and Mandel's justifications this week for Texas being a top 5 team. Thank god the AP poll is of no consequence now. Question: Who think Weis will make reference to another idle team jumping us? Also are we getting the Oregon treatment this year? If we beat USC we get into the BCS but is anyone else feeling like Oregon last year. Lose big to a top 2 team and play solid yet get no love. BS
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 7:19 pm | #

lotsa football left to be played, most of this will sort itself out.

from my viewpoint, this only further reinforces the fact that there shouldn't be any polls til mid oct at the earliest. texas is ranked where they are simply because they started out the year so highly ranked (#2 usa today, #3 ap. i know the irish were as well, but when craig james gets on tv weekly and says how good texas is (even when they're barely ahead of 'braska) while almost immediately following it up with "the wheels are coming off the nd bandwagon, along with their supporters", what would you expect? let's be honest, most people who vote in the polls don't really care about more than a couple of schools, and probably don't watch too many games or highlights (i'd venture most coaches have no time).

give it some time. wv-l'ville thurs, cal still has to play sc, who still has to play ucla as well as the irish. there are more than a few important sec matchups left. if the irish win out, does anyone think we won't be in a bcs bowl?
yz | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 9:22 pm | #

BGS Guys,

I don't know if you take requests, but I think two very interesting things to look at for the next "Statistically Speaking" would be our 4th down attempts/conversions and our 2nd half scoring defense. I haven't looked at either of these stats but I have to believe they would make a compelling story just based on anecdotal evidence.
romimake | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 9:29 pm | #

Our O-line looks really impressive when they play against people who weigh like 75 pounds less than they do.

Where the hell was Zibby during the first half? He needs to be up on the line extending the option out to the sideline, not coming up after the back has already picked up 7 yards. He's a STRONG SAFETY, get up there and pick up the option guy. Yeesh.

More 2nd half adjustments by Minter. Halftime needs to come at the end of the first quarter.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 9:29 pm | #

Did anyone else watch Weis on 60 Minutes? They really did their best to make him look like a dick. Not that that is that hard, but still :) Pretty entertaining I thought
BLT | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 10:33 pm | #

I don't think they made him look like a dick, just, to use his words, "brutally honest." I think they showed that his personality has helped to contribute to our current comparative success.
Andy | Email | Homepage | 10.29.06 - 11:30 pm | #

"60 Minutes" was quite fair; what a hyped interview. We're paying for CW's remarks re the polls. On one hand, I can see it. A close first half versus a service academy team that has a second team qb; too many UCLA and MSU wins. We never blew away a bad team, let alone post a strong win versus a decent team. It's Novemner, so we definitely had time to prove ourselves. I bet that most of the pollsters are figuring that if we run the table, we are a lock for a BCS, so be that as it may, they're having their fun trying to make us sweat out that BCS ranking. Before anyone gets too upset, remember this: God didn't make YOU a Canes fan!
Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 12:12 am | #

I would consider the Penn State game a strong win over a decent team.
Andy W | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 12:24 am | #

Lurker, you have been assigned to the DPRK camp for reeducation. Don't be bitter, you will graduate this time. You should make an attempt to rhyme any further postings, so they can be set to banjo music.
cap'n MENSA | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 12:27 am | #

What I find most agitating about the Heisman "race" this year is that the winner seems to have been chosen, yet again, before the season started. There are few legit contenders for the trophy this year. I do think Quinn and Smith are the top of the list. Troy Smith can certainly ball, but I hardly think he is worthy of the Heisman hype. He is able to perform quite well, but with a superior line, more speed and better athletes, I am just not convinced that it is Smith that is winning those games. Quinn is doing more with less, which has been the tale of Notre Dame these past two years.

Anyway, how many here doubt that, had Vince Young come back, he would have about a 200% lead in votes in the Heisman race so far? And that Texas would be ranked 1, with OSU back near ND? VYoung could ball better than just about any other college athlete I've ever seen, and he showed it in the NC game last year.
Joshua | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 8:53 am | #

What does beating 1) Louisiana Lafayette 2) Arizona 3) Tulane 4) Miss St 5) Kentucky 6) and Fresno State and losing to Auburn and FLorida get you?

A higher poll ranking than ND by the illustrious Craig James.

So Coach Weis, sit down with Kevin White and show him the facts. No longer do we have to go out and try to schedule a well rounded competitive schedule, just schedule 2 or 3 good teams and 9 or 10 dogs. We lose the tough games but since we beat the snot out of the little sisters of the poor, we're guaranteed a top 25 finish and a bowl game. At least thats what Craig James told me.
Stupidity of youth | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 10:31 am | #

to echo that, at least 3 other ap voters have lsu ranked ahead of the irish.
yz | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 10:48 am | #

If you asked me September about a playoff system I would have told you that we don't need it, that CFB is a continuous playoff. Where every game is almost an elimination game. However I think this year we are starting to see that change. With the adoption of a 12 game season and the addition of more cupcake teams to the schedules of major D1 schools (way to go tOSU, Youngstown St. - should be a great game next yr!) the chances for more teams to lose at least one game while winning more have gone up. Parity has truly arrived. I think we first need to hold the polls off until mid October.
Stupidity of youth | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 11:05 am | #

Ok, I'm here to take my licks. Hey Oregon State isn't that bad. They almost best Wazuu in Washington. And yes it's that same Washington State team that just killed UCLA in their own(UCLA) backyard. There is more parity this year and I believe the PAC10 is actually the best conference. The Big10 -other than 3 teams- just plain sucks. Am I the only one who can't stand OSU fans? They're the only team to have an asterik next to their championship(2002.) I won't even go into the ACC or Big East. And the Big12, they're worse than the Big East this year -Texas is clearly overrated...being outplayed 2 weeks in a row and one an unranked team doesn't equate to a solid conference leader. And then there's the SEC. Oh how we love their big defense and grind-it-out football! Stop crying Tubberville -you get blown out by Arkansas at home and then get outplayed by a subpar Ole Miss team and you still think you should be elgible for he NC??? They do have the most ranked teams...then agin, they have like 20 teams in their conference. Tenn. is the best team out of the SEC.

There were some posts saying ND should be ranked ahead of CAL?? Well, CAL didn't get slaughtered in their own backyard. Plus, their loss was the first game of the season and they have blown out 2 ranked teams(Oregon, ASU.) When ND does that then they can claim to be better than CAL. Or we can just wait and see who deos better against SC.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 1:51 pm | #

Frist Scott,

I actually agree with you on everything except I have one little nit pick regarding Cal. I don't have a problem with Cal being one spot ahead of us but I do think (and surely you must agree) that it is a little weak that they jump us on a bye week the week after an overtime game. Next week they play UCLA and if they beat them by more than 3 pts than they deserve to jump us. Since we both play USC, the difference(s) between Cal and ND will be able to be evaluated on the field against a common opponent where both teams will bring their A game.

As for Texas and Auburn you are absolutely right. I don't care if you love or hate ND but the difference of media portrayal between a UT and ND comeback win on the road is ridiculous. We come back and beat an undefeated (at the time) team at their house at night in a friggin monsoon after getting slaughtered the week before and its all "Your so lucky ND." Texas comes back, gets aided by the refs on a couple 4th down calls and PI calls and its all "Colt McCoy is the greatest thing in Texas>" "Vince who?." blah blah
Stupidity of youth | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 2:37 pm | #

Also re: Cal.
Oregon is barely holding onto a top 25 spot.
ASU is no longer in the top 25.
Cal is still really good.

But ND can say the same thing. We crushed a PSU team than can finish the season in the top 25 and beat one of the top ACC teams. Our schedule has the potential to include 3 conf. champs with GT, UM, and USC.
Stupidity of youth | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 2:42 pm | #

"Well, CAL didn't get slaughtered in their own backyard..."

True, but they were slaughtered in just as grizzly a fashion. Anyone who actually saw that game knows that the "true" score of that game was 35-3 before the 2 garbage-time TD's. In that respect, I wish we could take back LaMarr Woodley's seemingly meaningless TD return, as it could've given us a CAL-like 14 point boost in garbage points to make the blowout less conspicuous on paper.

Also, if you're going to count CAL's blowout over a then-ranked (but now a 3-loss trainwreck) ASU as a "quality win" , then why doesn't our ass 41-17 ass-kicking of Penn State (true score = 41-3) count?
scott | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 2:48 pm | #

Without a playoff, which is how EVERY other NCAA championship is determined, ND can only win a national championship in football when it goes undefeated and is one of two or fewer such teams at the end of the regular season. This has been clear since the 1989 and 1993 final polls took exactly opposite routes to place us second behind Miami and FSU, respectively. Rather than bitch about it, I say we load up the recruits and do it. Go Irish!
seymour 85 | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 3:05 pm | #

"true score = 41-3"
"Anyone who actually saw that game knows that the "true" score of that game was 35-3"

What does "true score" mean?? If we take away turnovers USC beats Oregon St. 31-13. So for me I'll consider that the "true" score. Also your whipping over Penn State came with off turnovers and special teams -which definately are part of the game- don't harp about "true score" when ND's offense had one good drive against Penn St. I wasn't sold on ND at the beginning of the season and after watching that game I was still not convinced. Penn State sucks. Furthermore, Cal han't been outplayed and then relied on miracle comebacks against mediocre teams like the extremely terrible Michign State and UCLA. Washington almost beat CAL with their own miracle...but it wasn't the other way around.

As for how ND is treated in the press I totally agree. It is the same with USC. The reason has to do with expectations which blind some of the realities. USC was criticised for a win over Wazuu at Washington and also for the win over Washington(@ wash.) because it was just by 6 or 7 points. The "true score" of the ASU game was 28-7 if you take away the 2 TD's USC gave ASU. Meanwhile, Auburn beats someone like Ole Miss this week by a touchdown and looked terrible in the pocess and Auburn is such a gutsy team for going into hostile Mississippi and grinding out a win in the tough 'ol SEC. Are you kidding me? Ole Miss was 3-4!!! It was the same when Texas should have lost to Nebaraska...and countless other games. I have no idea how Texas is ranked #4. And no, I don't think any team should be jumped on a bye nor do I think a team should be jumped if they win. It's lame -we saw it with Clemson and then they got exposed. Remember, for the AP, a win is NOT a win...you must win BIG - which isn't hard for Texas or OSU to do when they play AA oppnents and have terrible conferences.

Turnovers, late touchdowns, special teams...whatever: The score at the end of the game is the true score. It doesn't always say how each team played, though. USC had far better stats than Oregon State but OS did what they had to do to win. You can think ND is better than CAL if you want, but your're just fooling yourself. Like I said, let's see how each does against USC and then judge.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 4:58 pm | #

fuck the AP.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 5:19 pm | #

"Miracle" wins? Tell me did ND have a Stanford Band play that I missed? Was there a Flutie like Hail Mary? A Nebraskan foot deflection for a TD? Oh wait, you must mean throwing fade routes into the corner of the end zone in a monsoon. Or blitzing the QB to force a bad throw and pick. No, no that's not it. Perhaps its the UCLA game where our defense steps up in the 4th qtr and gives our offense a chance with solid run stuffing D. Let's not forget about the "miracuosly" precise throws Quinn made on the final drive. We have never seen him do that before. Go back to Berkely.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 5:49 pm | #

Although I'd gladly like to go back to Berkeley because it's one of the coolest schools and much more interesting than, um, South Bend...I'm stuck in NYC where I have to watch crappy teams from the East(anything east of Colorado, although you could throw them in here in this context) and still watch NBC college football when it seems like every time I turn it on, there's guys dressed in military uniforms in the stands. Dude, you got outplayed by BOTH UCLA and Michigan State...and these aren't solid teams we're talking here. To your credit, you came back and barely won but CAL hasn't had to do that. Sure they took a thrashing once but at least they didn't take it in their own backyard. And I don't remember Notre Dame beating anyone that's any good this year...well maybe Georgia Tech. Are they even ranked anymore? Some Notre Dame fans will always be naive -no matter what the realities.
the first Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 6:21 pm | #

the first Scott,

For a second I was beginning to respect your opinion, whether I agreed with it or not. But now you are sounding like an idiot. "Is GT still even ranked." What a dumass. Also check ND's strength of schedule. I don't think there have been uniforms in the stands every week. Cal has beaten:

Minnesota: (the pride of the Big 10) Portland State: (DII)
ASU: (going down the toilet once again)
Oregon State: last week they looked good...thats all I can say about that
Oregon: Heading to a 3 maybe 4 loss season
WSU: Looking to be a solid 9-3 team or worst case 8-4
Washingotn: Backup QB took to double OT

Now NOtre Dame's victories:
Georgia Tech: Top 25 team, liely playing in ACC title game
PSU: Either a 9-3 or 8-4 season w/ losses to UM, ND, tOSU, and maybe Wisconsin- all top 25 teams
MSU: John L- nuff said
Purdue: Not great but equivalent of a UW in the Pac 10
Stanford: both teams play them
UCLA: again both teams play them
Navy: solid marginal team, going to a bowl.

Looking at that and remembering how both teams got beaten down early in the season, they look pretty similar to me. Nothing to different to gripe over CAL being one spot ahead of us and surely nothing there to indicate that CAl would beat us or vice versa. Its two good teams who won't face each other this year and will face 3 like opponents. Thats as much as it will be.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 6:42 pm | #

single OT, sorry
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 6:42 pm | #

Dude Penn State sucks!!! They have no offense. Michigan State is even worse and Purdue??? The only reason these teams -Purdue, PSU- might go to bowls is because they play in the terrible, terrible BIG10 with the likes of Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota, Michigan State, Indiana, and yes, Iowa.

ASU going down the toilet? They are 5-3 and will definately go to a bowl. And you ripped on Oregon -Oregon is also better than ND and they will likey finish with only 3 losses...not sure where you got 4?? Navy solid?? Are Air Force and Army solid as well? Talk about dumbass. How bout this...let's see what CAL does to UCLA this weekend and then judge.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 7:19 pm | #

I am le tired of all the bickering. Every week it's the same damm arguments over and over and over. Let's move on. Go Irish!
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 8:39 pm | #

First Scott - (obviously, not 'Great Scott'): You repeated above the "I'm always watching ND play a service academy on NBC" comment which you first made during the week last week. We played Navy last Saturday, and have played no other service academies prior this year. 2005 #3 PSU's unis looks like AF .. # 2 Michigan can possibly be mistaken for Navy (by a less than knowledgeable fan).
MSU ... since you're in the City, perhaps the Jets? (I believe we play them next year).

You also said that you were "stuck" in ... NYC? That says a lot. An awful lot. If anyone is 'stuck' in the world's uncontested greatest city, my sincere pity.

Would love to meet up with you, I like tutoring .. along those lines, a football is the one that has that funny stitching about half the length of its oblong side.

Anonymous: re PSU "sucks:" this may not be Paterno's top team. However, regarding their lack of offense, they appear strikingly similar to a team named for a hair color (happens to play in the SEC). PSU's 'd' may be a tad better.

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 10.30.06 - 11:54 pm | #

"Sure they took a thrashing once but at least they didn't take it in their own backyard."

first Scott - please tell me, when did the location of a loss become a determining factor in how good a team is? If Cal had played Tennessee in Berkeley that week, UT still would have whipped them. Location doesn't matter.
Domer '99 | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 8:35 am | #

Oregon has two losses and will likely fall to USC and possiblyt Oregon State in the Civil War. So there you go, 4 losses. PSU sucks? They lost 3 games to the #1 team, #2, and #9 team in the BCS. What other team can say that? And regarding ASU, 3 straight losses is going down the toilet. Like every year they start off looking ok and then sputter out and die and end up playing Rutgers in a crappy bowl.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 9:49 am | #

on a different note, even nbc has already awarded the heisman to t smith.

http://www.nbcsports.com/cfb/272...908/ detail.html

so much for the "bias" toward nd.
yz | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 10:54 am | #

Honestly, who doesn't think he deserves it if he beats Michigan. While Texas many not be all it was or is cracked up to be and Iowa has since faltered, TS took care of business and played mistake free football. Like the article said, beating two #2s in one season is pretty dam good. However if he falters against UM, which I think he will, than its an even race.

I really think UM will win. tOSU hasn't really been tested yet. They played Texas in the second week when Colt McCoy was still green as can be and Iowa wasn't all it was built up to be. I think PSU's D showed what a good defense can do to TS and Co. That game will be the last on the 2006 UM revenge tour and the D that got torched by TS in the 4Q last year won't allow it to happen again. Either way it bound to be a great game and show of utter unsportsmanlike behaviour by the great tOSU fans. Careful about your coolers UM fans. In Columbus they double as toilets.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 11:03 am | #

i guess i'd take issue with the statement that his only "sub-par game" was in a "dominant 28-6 win" against psu. tOSU was in trouble the entire game, and half their points came in the form of 2 ints returned for tds in the final 2 minutes. further, you'd expect gaudy numbers against minn, but only had one td pass, and first td rush of the year, in a 44-0 blowout. almost everyone would have to agree that tOSU's running game is better than nd's, so arguably not much is needed from him, yet contest that with quinn having to load the irish on his back time and again.

i'm not saying it brady's to lose, just that to award it to t smith at this juncture seems a bit premature.
yz | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 12:42 pm | #

Domer, are you an idiot? I mean literally, are you an idiot? Playing at home or away makes a huge difference in how the outcome will be. But you must know something everyone else doesn't. Because whenever I hear ANYONE(who's not ND bias) talk about the Michigan game it's not just that ND got whipped, but that it happened in their own backyard that makes it such a bad loss. First games are bad barrometers anyway. Look at USC- Arkansas. Seriously, Domer, are you an idiot?

Oregon is better than Oregon State. I've seen both teams play multiple times this year. Oregon has 2 losses to 2 ranked teams, 1 in the top 10. Oregon has been ranked all year. Oregon has a better record. It then stands to reason that you cannot LOGICALLY infer that Oregon will lose to Oregon State and have 4 losses, einstein. I like how you ripped on Rutgers. tell me, how did navy's offense do against Rutgers? As for Penn State, who else are they going to lose to? They play in the freakin BIG10!! Yeah I'm sure Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Minnesota and Purdue are going to give them a run for their money. Wait, Purdue did. Penn State is equivalent to about the #7 team in the PAC10...which happens to be UCLA -that team that outplayed you a couple weeks back.
Scott | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 3:49 pm | #

Yes, Scott, I'm an idiot. I fooled the admissions officers at ND, and bluffed my way through my chemical engineering courses there. Shh, don't tell anyone, or they might revoke my degree! Way to bring a well-reasoned, civil discourse with you from Cal-homer-land. Just because I disagree with you, I'm an idiot? Very nice approach.

The way I look at it, a whipping is a whipping, no matter where it happens. I don't give any "bonus points" for losses at home or away. Losing at home may suck more, but I don't think it has much impact on the objective quality of the teams or where they should be ranked. Disagree if you will, but when you degenerate into silly taunting, it makes you look pretty ridiculous and takes away from your argument.
Domer '99 | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 3:57 pm | #

"Domer, are you an idiot? I mean literally, are you an idiot? Playing at home or away makes a huge difference in how the outcome will be."

Ok Scott. Then you must be implying that CAL totally sucks shit, seeing that their narrow OT win at home over a mediocre UW would've been a loss on the road. You know, due to the "huge difference" home field advantage has on the outcome.
scott (the real one) | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 4:24 pm | #

I honestly do not even know where to begin with this guy. First he says how losing at home is way worse than losing on the road because its in your own house and that holds some sort of mystical powers (which is weird since Weis has lost 3 @ home and none on the road but I digress). Now since he is CFB's resident genious he has all but predicted and guranteed that the mighty ducks (who should be a three loss team-thanks PAc 10 refs) will defeat their in state rival. Scott must have also been able to "logically infer" that since OSU beat UW by 10 and USC only beat UW by 4 that OSU was certainly going to beat USC. What a genous!

In a conference that has a winless team this guy sure likes to talk. One moment we are being chasticed since UCLA outplayed us and they suck but then he says the PAC 10 rules and is hard. Wouldn't that explain UCLA 3 losses to Pac 10 teams, the same teams you are boasting about?

Nobody cares who your a fan of, but would you mind actually writing some rational and thought out crap instead of the crap coming out of your mouth now.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 4:24 pm | #

Way to be diplomatic Domer -much contrast to your first post. You didn't just disagree with me, you dedicated an entire post to how playing on the road and at home is all the same in college football. And PM, you agreed!! Wow, ND's standards must have dropped since I was in school. And PM, "genious" has an 'i' in it, you scholar you. I guess since you guys got whipped at home and barely beat UCLA at home I can see where you guys are coming from. What I actually said was that playing at home or on the road makes a difference. Nothing more -i didn't say it had 'magical powers or the other phrases you're putting in my mouth. You guys disagree, which means I can't take anything you say too seriously. And Yes I do believe CAL sucks "shit." They will suck so much "shit" this weekend against UCLA that they will spit it out on Notre Dame for their performance against UCLA. I never boasted about UCLA...that's the point. They have 3 losses against the PAC10, one blowout courtesy of Oregon. They are a good team...it's just that the PAC10 is so good this year they don't stand a chance. And the fact that an unranked team who's 7th in any conference outplayed you should be embarrasing, seeing as you guys think you should be ranked higher. Or was it lower? Talk about thinking about things rationally. You forgot that Notre Dame is the team you're backing PM -you want them to come across as strong. Don't worry -your deal with the devil will get you into another undeserving BCS bowl, just like last year.
scott (the unreal one) | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 5:02 pm | #

So let me get this straight, our crushing defeat of PSU doesn't matter because they lost to #1, #2, and #9 in the BCS poll but Oregon's two losses to #10 and #20 make them the far superior team. Not even factoring in Oregon's game against OU and the gift that it was, you have no real basis to lay your claim on that Oregon would beat ND and therefore one could logically infer that Cal would beat ND.

It's also funny that you haven't mentioned Cal's defensive stat rankings. I am sure the team that is 92nd on total defense, 57 in rushing, and a stellar 106 in pass defense would really whip our 11th rated pass offense and 30th rated total offense. And yes I know your offense's rankings and they would likely drive against our 61st rated total D.

So really the only thing, as I say it again and again, we know is that it would likely be a great game between the two teams with Lynch scoring and Quinn and Co. scoring.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 5:28 pm | #

I apologize, you never claimed ORegon would beat ND. Please disregard that part. However I do think in terms of measuring quality wins, PSU and Oegon are on even ground.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 5:38 pm | #

Penn State:

Akron W 34-16
09/09 at #4 N Dame L 41-17
09/16 YSU W 37-3
09/23 at #1 Ohio St L 28-6
09/30 N'western W 33-7
10/07 at Minnesota W 28-27
10/14 #4 Michigan L 17-10
10/21 Illinois W 26-12
10/28 at Purdue W 12-0

Oregon:

09/02 Stanford W 48-10
09/09 at Fresno St W 31-24
09/16 #15 Oklahoma W 34-33
09/30 at Arizona St W 48-13
10/07 at #16 California L 45-24
10/14 UCLA W 30-20
10/21 at Wash St L 34-23
10/28 Portland St W 55-12

How are these schedules comparable as far as ranking?? Where are the quality wins for Penn State? As for the Oklahoma game, clearly you didn't see the game. Oregon whipped their butts for 3 quarters and then Peterson showed up in the 4th quarter. Even Stoops said at halftime that he was surprised Oregon wasn't killing them. Yes, Oklahoma should have won...but they didn't DESERVE to win. The better team won in this specific case.

You can site all the rankings you want, but you don't play in the PAC10 where offense is the name of the game and thus it's tough to have a top ranked defense. You want to judge the teams. Let's see what they do to UCLA this weekend -isn't that a fair barrometer? I'm sure it would be a great game but after seeing both teams play multiple times, CAL looks stronger. That's only my opinion.
scott) | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 6:31 pm | #

Not to get philosphical but when did football or life for that matter get judged by what you 'deserve.' You know last year Notre Dame deserved tp beat USC but we lost. They outplayed us when it mattered the most. Just like with MSU or UCLA we putplayed them when it mattered the most. We prevented them from putting us away and came back. Whether you chalk that up to luck or opportunity it doesn't matter because the end result is the same, a W.

As for PSU's quality wins I don't see one just like I don't see one for Oregon. ASU does not count as a quality team I am sorry. They nearly lost 4 in a row and are looking at possibly losing two more in a row with OSU and WSU on the schedule. ASU has 5 wins over:
-Northern Arizona
-Nevada
-Colorado
-Stanford
-Washington

Conversely Purdue has 5 wins over:
-Indiana State
-Miami (Ohio)
-Ball St.
-Minnesota
-Northwestern

So both teams (ASU and Purdue) haven't really beaten anybody and lost to all the good teams on their schedule. So with ASU begin Oregon's best win and Purdue being PSU's best win, yeah I don't really see the difference in between the two.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 7:02 pm | #

And yes I agree that it would be a fair barometer. Both teams coming off bye weeks so injuries have had time to heal. At least tell me that you agree that Texas is overrated.
PM | Email | Homepage | 10.31.06 - 7:03 pm | #

Scott (unreal) says: "How are these schedules [Oregon and Penn State] comparable as far as ranking?? Where are the quality wins for Penn State?"

According to the Sagarin rankings (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt06.htm) , Oregon (6-2) has played the 9th toughest schedule, while Penn State (6-3) has played the 10th toughest schedule. So the two teams are pretty comparable by that statistical measure.

Scott also says "You can site all the rankings you want, but you don't play in the PAC10 where offense is the name of the game and thus it's tough to have a top ranked defense."

That's just an often-used excuse for the fact that Pac-10 defenses aren't very good. The "OMG! WTF? PAC-10 OFFENSE IS SO GOOD, ON ONE CAN HAVE A GOOD DEFENSE" proposition is ridiculous. It's just like the falsehood that the SEC defenses are so good that no one can have a good offense in the SEC.
Domer '99 | Email | Homepage | 11.01.06 - 9:16 am | #

I just couldn't bring myself to root for USC to beat Ore. State. That little prick Carrol looks good when he loses
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 11.01.06 - 5:52 pm | #