ND needed to put points on the board in their first possession. I had a bad feeling when their first drive stalled especially after the beautiful opening pass to Rhema.

After SC put the back-to-back TDs on ND I thought for sure the game was lost because ND played flat.

I thought momentum would shift after two picks and the block punt, but alas ND couldn't get anything going.

I fear for the bowl game. It's been 13 long years since our last bowl victory and all I want for the New Year is a bowl victory now.
JWilk | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 10:27 am | #

You also have to consider that 60 or those 130 rushing yards came on Brady's scramble, so the stat is scewed a bit.
ND101 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 10:29 am | #

ND101, a prime example of numbers not telling the whole story.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 10:33 am | #

The good news is that UF has struggled mightily this season also. Bring on those Gators!!!
JR | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 10:52 am | #

Another stat to consider. The kicking game and return yards.

SC started with great field position all night long because of their return game and ND's inability to kick or punt.
Jeff | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 11:32 am | #

seriously. how hard is it to find a kicker?

I mean, cant we just take the Necessary Roughness approach and go find a Kathy Ireland-esque beauty from the girls soccer team and put her in pads? or is that what we already have in Gioia? No. even my girlfriend knows better how to kick an onside. GET THE HOP!!!!
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 11:47 am | #

If we play like we did Saturday night, I don't want any Rose Bowl Skunkbear rematch.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for us to smack down Big Blue in the Rose, but we will be the ones getting smacked if that sort of play continues.
How possible is a Cotton Bowl berth?
I miss the Cotton Bowl.
A nice bowl victory over Texas or Texas A&M would be just what the doctor ordered.
Mike D | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 11:52 am | #

With some time to think about it, here's my half-cent.

* A 10-12 ranking seems fair. This is a good football team.

* This is a good football team that hasn't played up all year.

* USC was playing for a spot in the NC game. ND's post season was already decided. In that respect, they had nothing to play for.

* I don't buy the "we just don't have the talent". Brady overthrew passes. Receivers dropped passes. Sure more talent could have compensated for those mistakes. But if our star players in the game of their career had played like star players in the game of their career, our defense gets more rest, we don't need onside kicks, etc.

* The O-line looked better. I think they used all those weak opponents to build experience and improve rather than coast.

* I covet USC's secondary. They had hands everywhere. I think our recent weak schedule hurt us here.Or perhaps we were prepared and tips rather than picks are the best you can hope for against these guys?

* I think we would do well against Florida/Arkansas.

* I think we would compete with Michigan.

* I really miss the scrappy ND team that would periodically remind the country that teamwork and heart can go toe to toe with speed and athleticism. The thing I'll probably remember most about this season is samardzija laughing on the sidelines with 1:05 left in the UCLA game. Unless he had a crystal ball there was nothing to laugh about at that moment.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 11:54 am | #

Cotton Bowl would be nice...or a BCS match-up in an easily winnable game (but not Boise State since that's a no-win situation). We have to accept the fact that we're not at the uber elite level just yet and get a bowl win out of this season to mark some improvement over next year and provide a good ending for next year. At least we're beating the teams we should beat now (I'm thinking of BYU in 2004, among others).
ND Alum | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 11:59 am | #

If the BCS bowls were done today, the only conferences with runner-ups ahead of ND in the BCS rankings are the Big 10+1 and the SEC.

If WVU beats Rutgers that won't change, but if Rutgers wins then Louisville will likely be a higher ranked at-large than ND.
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:19 pm | #

... unless WVU jumps ND with a big win.

As long as ND stays ahead of the runners-ups from the Big East, ACC, Pac 10, and Big 12 in the polls and BCS rankings a BCS Bowl would be a slam dunk.
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:24 pm | #

If WVU beats Rutgers than nobody can say that ND doesn't deserve an at large BCS bid. The only team that could be angry is Wisconsin and it is the rules of the BCS, not an ND bias that excludes them. Same if Arkansas beats UF since LSU will get the at large and not UF. The only way ND can screw a team over is if Rutgers beats WVU and we get the nod over Louisville, which won't happen as WVU will beat Rutgers are Lousiville would get the nod over us anyway.

Do we deserve a BCS bid? I don't know. I'm iffy on that. But we are the most deserving eligible team to go (assuming WVU wins). What other two loss teams are you going to put in there? Va Tech or WVU? Nope. So to all those ND haters out there, if we go it won't be because of an ND bias but because of the BCS rules.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:30 pm | #

I don't believe that ND doesn't have talent. We clearly do. But anyone who watched Southern Cal's secondary and receivers cannot possibly believe that we are on-par with them talent-wise. In college football, the team with the better players wins 9 of 10 times, and SoCal clearly had the better athletes on the field.

When you combine that with the multitude of missed opportunities, you get exactly what we saw. We had multiple opportunities to put up 21 more points, and we missed all of them.

And I wouldn't worry too much about the kicker. Field goals weren't gonna help us win that game anyway.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:32 pm | #

And I don't care if WVU beats Rutgers 62-0, you can't lose to South Florida at home and go to a BCS game. Yeah we lost two games by a combined 46 ptss, but at least those two teams are #2 and #3.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:32 pm | #

Agreed that Louisville will likely get the nod if they don't get the Big East, so if WVU beats Rutgers and doesn't jump ND in the AP, there won't be any controversies. The 3rd teams will never get in without a playoff system.
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:41 pm | #

If Rutgers beats WVU they go in for the same reason GT or WF will.

At least with 10 bowl spots there are two ways in for ND: #8 in the BCS, or 4th amongst the BCS #2s and the non-BCS.
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:46 pm | #

obediah

I don't buy the "no talent" argument, but I do buy the "not enough talent" argument. For most plays we do play toe-to-toe with the more talented teams, but we have no home run hitters like USC, tOSU, UM. Our receivers do not seem to get open against better teams (Shark can make up for it by being 6'5" and long armed), and DW is no game breaker. In games against top teams you need big plays if you can't stop big plays (which we can't). I'm not sure which ND teams you refer to which played scrappy; the teams of the Holtz era may have been scrappy, but they were also very talented with a lot of speed and athleticism- with NFL players on the offensive line.

I remember him laughing as well. Maybe I shouldn't take the games so seriously, but I didn't think anything was funny either.

Mike
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:51 pm | #

we don't have the defensive talent, flat out.

if usc had to score, they could have, whenever they wanted.
Tony | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 12:53 pm | #

A little OT, but the thing I don't get is how an Arkansas team that lost on Saturday to a lower ranked team, at home, and lost to the same USC team that we lost to, but by a greater margin, is somehow ahead of us in the rankings. Is this the typical pollster bias, or did I miss something?
bigwave96 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:01 pm | #

The pollsters know Ark is playing UF next week and braked the slide in case they have to move them back up. If Ark loses to UF they probably end up 4th among the SEC teams in the polls.
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:16 pm | #

Willingham would have won this game.
TW | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:30 pm | #

1. aside from failed 4th downs, the key stat to the game was field position. the only reason we were even in yards gained is because they never had to go more than 65 yards for a score.

2. when our backup DBs got into the game, they looked flat out unprepared. are they even taking reps in practice? something needs to change quickly here - aside from possibly mike richardson and the introduction of terrail lambert, there has been zero improvement over the last 24 games from the secondary.

3. it's tough to see the "offensive genius" when it takes us 7 plays to score from a first-and-goal with 5 minutes left in the game. when weis first came on, i was confident when he said we'd never lose an "x's and o's" matchup. guess what? we got dominated in nearly every facet of the game, and it's not because we were playing a bunch of 10-year veteran pro-bowlers.
imposs1ble | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:34 pm | #

To echo what was said earlier, here's where we lost:

GIOIA kickoff 51 yards to the USC14, Joseph, Vincent return 5 yards to the
USC19 (RICHARDSON, Mi.).
U 1-10 U19 USC TROJANS drive start at 07:20 (2nd).
U 1-10 U19 Booty, J.D. pass intercepted by RICHARDSON, Mi. at the UND48,
RICHARDSON, Mi. return 0 yards to the UND48.
--------------- 1 plays, 0 yards, TOP 00:30 ---------------

N 1-10 N48 NOTRE DAME drive start at 06:50 (2nd).
N 1-10 N48 GRIMES rush for 2 yards to the 50 yardline (Maualuga, Rey).
N 2-8 N50 QUINN, B. pass complete to SAMARDZIJA for 7 yards to the USC43 (Mays,
Taylor).
N 3-1 U43 WALKER rush for loss of 2 yards to the USC45, out-of-bounds (Sartz, Dallas).
N 4-3 U45 QUINN, B. pass incomplete to McKNIGHT.
--------------- 4 plays, 7 yards, TOP 02:05 ---------------

U 1-10 U45 USC TROJANS drive start at 04:45 (2nd).
U 1-10 U45 Gable, C.J. rush for loss of 8 yards to the USC37 (CRUM;LANDRI).
U 2-18 U37 Booty, J.D. pass intercepted by LAWS at the USC36, LAWS return 0 yards
to the USC36.
--------------- 2 plays, minus 8 yards, TOP 01:08 ---------------

N 1-10 U36 NOTRE DAME drive start at 03:37 (2nd).
N 1-10 U36 WALKER rush for 1 yard to the USC35 (Ellis, Sedrick).
N 2-9 U35 QUINN, B. rush for 3 yards to the USC32, out-of-bounds (Rivers, Keith).
N 3-6 U32 QUINN, B. pass incomplete to McKNIGHT.
N 4-6 U32 Timeout Notre Dame, clock 02:27.
N 4-6 U32 QUINN, B. pass incomplete to SAMARDZIJA.
--------------- 4 plays, 4 yards, TOP 01:18 ---------------
Chris Lawler | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:37 pm | #

Not to look ahead to next year already, because I really want us to win our bowl game. But looking at next years schedule, we could have it rough breaking in a freshman QB.

S 01 GEORGIA TECH
S 08 @ Penn State
S 15 @ Michigan
S 22 MICHIGAN ST.
S 29 @ Purdue
O 06 @ UCLA
O 13 BOSTON COLLEGE
O 20 SOUTHERN CAL

Those are going to be 8 tough games to start the season off without a bye. Although, knowing how things we'll go, we'll win 6 or 7 of those games but everyone will state that we have a weak schedule. Let it be known now, we have a tough 8 games to start next year.
ND101 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:41 pm | #

I never saw Shark laughing at the UCLA game...anyone have an image or a youtube of this?
Chris Lawler | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:42 pm | #

I don't agree with all of the naysayers (and I'm not sure why we dropped as far as we did) given that our two losses (although not pretty) are to the number #2 and #3 teams in the country (and 4 out of our last 5). We actually played USC even (24 to 23) after we gave them a 21 point advantage in the first period and if a few things had gone differently (dropped balls, fewer penalties, fewer one-handed catches, a field goal kicker, fewer injuries, a lapse on the onside kick), the outcome may have been different (how about that for a positive outlook). Overall, the team played hard against a very talented opponent (talent which we don't have in every positon). At this point, we are certainly in a better position than we were 2 years ago, but we are a 2nd tier team to the elite (probably 5 - 10 given the current college football season) and hopefully we'll get a chance to prove it against Florida. The real test will be next year.

For the bowl season, it looks like we'll have to cheer for WVU to beat Rutgers so L'ville is the Big East Champion with an automatic bid (rather than an at large) and Florida to beat Arkansas to knock Arky out as LSU would then be the 2nd team from the SEC. It doesn't look like we can get to #8, but we should jump over Arky if they lose and Wisconsin shouldn't count as they are already ineligible (although given everyone's dislike for us, Oklahoma will probably jump over us if they win)

For the Bowl selection process, it looks like it may end up as follows (as long as there are no other losses in the playoffs):

NC - OSU VS. USC
Rose - UM vs. LSU (probably a better pick than ND at this point given their ranking and can you imagine the outcry if we're picked over them although it's got be intriguing and profitable to consider having ND in the Rose Bowl).
Sugar - UF/Arky vs. ND (I'm sure the Sugar Bowl would love to have ND come down to New Orleans, it would be an interesting match-up and it would hopefully be a bowl that we can win).
Orange - GT/WF vs. L'ville
Fiesta - OU/Nebraska vs. Boise State

Go Irish!
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:44 pm | #

i definitely saw him laughing. I think it was commented upon in the in-game comments thread. we were all pissed at him. then he proved us wrong.
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:50 pm | #

I know this sounds bad but I am wishing that we don't qualify for a BCS game. This is due to a selfish desire to start the year with a win.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 1:59 pm | #

Why is everyone so confident we can beat Florida? I haven't watched them that much but the times I have seen them they look to have a very fast defense that can stifle the run and pick the ball off. Their offense while inconsistent at times has big play potential at every snap with Percy Harvin and Calwell. I think we have as good of a shot to beat them as any other team, but is there something I am missing as to why we think we see so confident?
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:07 pm | #

I'm not disputing that Shark laughed...I'm just saying I missed it. That does seem really odd, given the circumstance, but surely there's a good reason.

I hope that really won't be the enduring image of the season for obediah.

Paul, I agree with your assessment of our current ranking. Our last four losses have come to the programs currently ranked 1, 2 and 3. Hopefully, the MSU curse has been broken now...the only teams that are beating us are the best of the best. We're not there yet, and it will take a few years, but I'm very happy with the program.
Chris Lawler | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:10 pm | #

Sorry to hi-jack the comments thread, but I have a BCS question. UHND.com and others say that we must be in the top 12 to be eligible. As I look at the BCS eligibility criteria for at-large teams (http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/eligibility), I read that we must be 14th or higher.

Which is right?
Chris Lawler | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:16 pm | #

The loser of the SEC game is only competing with LSU for an at large. ND probably wins out unless Rutgers beats WVU and makes Louisville an at large.
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:24 pm | #

Top 14 is right. However if we fall below BCS #12, it probably means an Big East/ACC/Pac10/Big12 runner-up has slipped ahead of us in the rankings in which case the pick is not likely.
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:26 pm | #

(The scenario where BCS#12 is not enough is the Big East and ACC champs being below us and Boise and Lousiville being ahead of us)
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:29 pm | #

Since you brought up "efficiency", here are some stats to think about:

1. ND's Pass Efficiency Defense -- Rank #87/119

2. ND's Punt Return Defense -- Rank #107

3. While our Total Defense was ranked #45, our scoring defense was #56 (which means statistically, we should've been preventing teams from scoring as much as they did. This could've been from 4th quarter gimme points to Army, Penn St., et al., but I suspect this is endemic of the organization).

4. Penalties -- Rank #98 (This could've been because of Big 10 officials, but when it's this high, it's probably more likely to be legitimate issues)

5. Although we probably don't have this number available, but points scored directly (or immediately indirectly) off of turnovers by our opponents (think Michigan game) vs. our inability to convert turnovers (USC) into points was an efficiency issue.

6. Offensive 3rd Down Efficiency -- Rank #59)

7. Defensive 3rd Down Efficiency (which is a STRONG correlator to wins/losses -- #40)

8. Pass Sacks Allowed (another strong correlator to wins/losses) -- Rank #91)

This data shows that ND was inconsistent, both on offense & defense, but was particularly inefficient on defense. We would've been better with a bend-but-don't-break defense (the type employed after Barry Alvarez's departure) where we would let teams creap on us, but we'd never give up the big play.
Raristotle | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:43 pm | #

As to why we fell more than Arkansas, that is easy, everyone knows that a loss later in the season is worse than earlier in the season. We lost Saturday and they lost Friday. By my count that makes a whole day difference.
ND'90 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:45 pm | #

I also think we just have a problem finishing the season strong. We got waxed by USC three years ago, we almost lost to Stanford last year after playing VERY flat the whole way (the only reason we were able to pull it together, I think, is because it was Stanford, and Stanford is not good -- but it should NEVER have required a late-game save by BQ), and we came out this year and got thumped by USC again. We also were flat in the Fiesta against OSU last year. I just don't think our team has been able to stay up for an entire season in the last few years, and I don't know why.
Heather | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:47 pm | #

Um guys,

Michigan would destroy us (Again) in a bowl game.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:47 pm | #

If the consideration for an at-large bid is primarily money, why would any of the bowls pick a conference runner-up ahead of us?
Chris Lawler | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 2:47 pm | #

Imposs1ble,

I hardly think Weis got outcoached. Not to harp on the poor guy, but if you want to see someone getting outcoached look at Tyrone's teams.

Weis had this team prepared, and I liked his play selection. Yet no matter how great the plays are, you still have to make a play, and our team just failed to do that on multiple occassions when we needed to.

I really don't feel that bad about this loss (compared to how I sometimes do feel). If we had made even 2 of those 4th downs and scored TDs this could have been a game. We didn't make those plays. We played against a very talented, well coached team, and quite often no level of coaching in the world will win those games.

What goes to show how well this team has been coached is since Charlie's been running the show, not once have I felt embarrassed by the play of the team. The only butt kickings we've had have been against UM, tOSU, and USC. That is three of the most talented teams in the country, Top 5 teams. There is nothing to be ashamed about there. Remember, it was only a year ago when we lost like that to teams like Purdue, Pitt, etc.

Things are looking up, and if anything I think the last two years are a testament to what a great coach Charlie is, specifically with x and o's. We have been outplayed, but nobody has outcoached Charlie.

Five losses since Charlie took over a reeling team.

Four of those losses to Top Five teams.

Two of five losses coming down to the final play.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:03 pm | #

Brad,

Excellent points. However when three of the five losses are by a combined 60 pts., its not as rosy as losing only 5 games. We need something new on this team from the coaches. I don't know if we need to replace some or simply change some of our processes but we have come out flat in three big games, of which two were against our two biggest rivals.

That being said, if you told me after two reg. seasons under Weis we would have a combined record of 19-4, I would have laughed at you so in reality things are great. We are back. And we did it faster than anyone expected. I am not so pessimistic about next yearI I see it being very similar to '91 and '92 where we will win one game we sohuldn't and lose the ones we should but gain incredible experience and depth in the process.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:13 pm | #

2006 takeaways:

1) We lost all of our big 2006 games due to inferior personnel.

2) Having Minter only made the margins larger. We might have won all but tOSU in 2005 if we didn’t have Minter. When was the last time we jammed anyone?

3) When our starting DB’s are converted WR’s – there is a problem. True cover corners and ball-hawk safeties needed. Charles Woodson, anyone?

4) When we convert a RB to LB, there is a problem.

5) When our opponent has a FB that kicks a 45 yard FG and is BETTER than ALL of our kickers – there is a problem. Bad scouting, bad coaching. CW needs to recruit a top FG kicker, now!!! Do we have a dedicated kicker coach? If so, we need a new one, now!

6) When a non-option QB has a longer run than our RB’s career long, there is a problem. No RB speed, talent. DW rarely fumbled, but he NEVER broke the big one. If you don’t threaten a breakaway run, your opp’s scheme you differently. Chris Wells tOSU, anyone?

7) When you haven’t won a bowl game in over a decade – there is a problem. No “pay-for-play” almost always loses to Univer$ity of $emi-pro ($lu$h-funded, $alaried – take your pick – they are all true) Collegian$ – in recruiting and on the field. CW’s job is to get Dudley Dooright to compete with Snidely Whiplash. Try that with Minter on your staff!

8) CW needs to understand there ARE big college games. Holtz understood, he just choked in the letdown games. Yippie (Poodle) and Tressel understand. CW won’t be a top coach in college if he can’t fire up the troops like “Yippie.”

9) If we would have somehow beaten U$C (capitalize on t-overs?), we would have been annihilated by tOSU - again. U$C will get handled pretty good.

10) We will probably lose to whoever we play in a bowl game.

11) Our first realistic shot is in 2008. CW needs to stop the bleeding in 2007 to keep recruits coming.

Go Irish! Win a bowl game!

P.S. Don't forget to recruit a top kicker. 2 of 6 on 4th downs because our kicker can't kick and our WR's dropped easy balls.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:25 pm | #

Just a quick note - the SEC is VASTLY OVERRATED.
I live in SEC country now and unfortunately have seen more than my share of SEC games.
AWFUL.
We would beat Florida/Arkansas/Whoever from the SEC.
Mike D | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:33 pm | #

Good game on Saturday. Paul, I appreciate the 21 point cushion ND just handed us. We really didn't put much effort into those 3 touchdowns. It was a game that can't be reduced to "the breaks just didn't go our way." You had a few breaks yourself. Which brings me to Booty. He did his best to get ND back in the game. You guys want him?

ND will most likely go to the Rose Bowl. The grandaddy of them all! Heck, that's the coolest bowl there is and it will actually be cast on ABC, not the FOX posers. And ND CAN beat Michigan, if it comes to that. Michigan is better -but if Troy Smith can break apart a secondary, I'm sure Weis and Quinn can do the same.
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:41 pm | #

"10) We will probably lose to whoever we play in a bowl game. "

You don't even know who we are playing yet and already the cynicism starts. Pathetic.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:45 pm | #

I think we'll be competitive in whatever bowl we go to, but USC showed us what a good defensive secondary looks like last night. The O-line gave BQ time for a change, but no one was open. Their DBs were in our receivers' faces the whole game, and knocked down pass after pass. It was a defensive clinic.

I was impressed by our D at times, but just like OSU last year we stop 'em on 1st down, stop 'em on 2nd down, and get burned bad on 3rd down. The D had multiple opportunities to get off the field and couldn't do it. Just like the O had multiple opportunities to stay on the field and couldn't do it.

I wasn't nearly as pissed after this game as I was after the Michigan game. Probably because I didn't feel like we totally blew it, but that we got outplayed. There's no shame in losing to a better team, unless you totally give away the game which we didn't do.

Let's go win a bowl. As much as I'd love to beat UF/Ark in the Sugar Bowl, I just want to win a bowl PLEASE!
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:46 pm | #

Other guy,

Great win on Saturday. You guys came to play and it certainly showed. And to Booty's credit, he hung in there and kept his head up. Easily could have blown the game but the guy showed something. And re: the fans, not to many places you can lose by 20 pts to your biggest rival at their place and say the game was a good atmosphere. Was impressed.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:48 pm | #

First, I can't see the Sugar Bowl passing on ND to take Louisville if Rutgers wins the Big East. The BCS is about making $$$ and ND-Fla. or ND-Ark. is a bigger draw than Louisville against either of those teams.

Second, I wonder how many teams would have less than 2 losses if they played the schedule we have? Every team that has played 2 of the Big 3 has lost both games. I can almost guarantee you that Louisville would not be 11-1 if they played our schedule.

Anyway, it would be nice if WVU wins over Rutgers so there is no controversy.
Franco | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:52 pm | #

I for one would like to see at least one if not two coaching changes. Polian has turned our ST play into a nightmare. STs can be the difference when one of the two other units is weak. We essentially added a weak facet to our already shaky D this year (don't get me wrong, I think the D improved, but not enough to face elite offenses). Combine that with the up and down play of the O, attributable mostly to OL play, and we could have had a 4 loss season. We just can't play with a hand behind our back - Polian should go. Minter is not a terrible coach and I will give him credit for working with less than a full deck of talent. But I don't think he was particularly creative at disguising coverage or blitzes, and someone has to be accountable for the regression in tackling this year.

I hope we win 8 next year, I really, really do. Doubt it, but we need a decent year for recruiting's sake. I hope we play a heck of a lot of Sophmores and Freshmen too - might as well get them ready for 2008.
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 3:53 pm | #

Glad to hear PM. And Booty does deserve huge cred for showing up in the 2nd half.

I was just playing, John David. Don't be mad at me. USC needs you.
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 4:02 pm | #

PM,

Our D is pathetic. I am just being realistic.

Unless we get a lucky cupcake draw, we will struggle. If we don't get a cupcake, yes, I think we will lose another bowl game.

Sorry.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 4:29 pm | #

Yeah, whoever says we will probably lose our bowl game at this point is mad. We could be playing some Big 12 poser, who knows???

I suppose I just don't understand people who are always so pessimistic. I recall a poster on this site proclaiming that ND definitely would lose to Purdue and UCLA. Get a grip on yourselves, people! We are living in the reign of Charles the Great!
As one person already said, we beat the teams we're supposed to...and while I am not ecstatic over our last 4 losses in the past 2 years, they are to the 1-2-3 teams in the BCS. Things are on the up.
Mike D | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 4:30 pm | #

obediah,

re: Shark in the UCLA game.

I thought I was the only one in the world who caught that!! (or at least caught it and gave a shit.)

I wanted to punch my TV screen! I made a comment to the wif that he must know something nobody else does to be standing there yuckin' it up when we're about to lose to UCLA. Well, evidently he did. ;)
Timugen | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 4:34 pm | #

The only possible bowl matchup that should worry you is Michigan.
Even then, we will be at least competitive.
Who else is going to beat us?
Oklahoma?
Chris Weak and that mediocre Gator squad?
Arkansas and their mighty 50 yards of passing?
Perhaps Texas and their "We're not going to stop the run" defensive philosophy?
Yuck.
Mike D | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 4:36 pm | #

It all came down to execution against SC. They have a lot of talent but it isn't as if Notre Dame is devoid of it. Some dropped passes killed us. We had fantastic field position after the defense got us a couple of turnovers and scored zero points. A few plays here and there make all the difference.

Coach Holtz was 13-10 if memory serves in his first two seasons. We got crushed against A&M in the Cotton Bowl on New Year's/my 10th birthday. However, we then went on to delight Irish fans everywhere (and yours truly on my 11th birthday) by winning the national title the very next season. Granted, Holtz' first two recruiting classes were tops in the nation but he also had plenty of freshmen and sophomores playing prominent roles on the 1988 squad.

The fact that next year's senior class is razor thin presents a lot of problems to be sure. Spring practice will be chaotic and remarkably intriguing at the same time. So much is up for grabs. It's very exciting.

I'm looking forward to the challenge of playing in a BCS game. I hope we get a shot. The seniors have done Notre Dame proud and I firmly believe that they can finally get that "signature win" everyone has been craving. Winning a bowl game for the first time in thirteen years (can't believe it has been that long) would be amazing.

Now let's see if we can bring in another top-five recruiting class. I see that ESPN.com currently has us at three behind USC and Texas (shocker!).

Irish yesterday... Irish today... Irish forever!
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 5:21 pm | #

Stats may be for losers, but in this game they belonged to the winners.

How about this one:

USC plays 20+ yards: 6 (4 pass, 2 run)
USC plays 10+ yards: 16 (11 pass, 5 run)

Ouch.
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 6:19 pm | #

The spring and next year will be interesting, for sure. We can be pessimistic about the personnel losses (some would say realistic), or we could take the approach that, at least on defense, it may be addition by subtraction. Hopefully the media will put us down in the polls, around 17-25 area, so the expectations aren't ridiculously high. To me, that's a lot of this year's problem--when you start out #2, finishing outside the BCS championship game is a disappointment, no matter how unrealistic those initial expectations were.

Clausen or Frazer or Jones could be next year's Colt McCoy (4th in passing efficiency as a RS frosh before his injury). All last year's recruits will have had a year to mature and get ready to make an impact as sophomores. There's a lot of unknowns, but this could be a good thing. We might lose a few games, but it's hard for me not to look down the road and get excited about 2008, 2009, 2010...
Nate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 6:21 pm | #

Not to be too pessimistic, but I'll be worried about '08 until I see what kind of defensive linemen and linebackers Charlie brings in this year. ND will be skilled on offense and I think some of the younger guys now will be primetime players on the defense by then, but replacing Landri/Laws/Abiamiri on the line isn't going to be easy and the Irish obviously need a few more guys to step up in the LB spots.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 6:59 pm | #

Chuck better bring in three to four more 4 stars atheltes to this recruiting class or the bleeding may continue...

Remember Holtz inherented a fair amount of Faust talent. Faust blew but he recruited very well. This year, Chuck did have a back-up running back, nor a second full-back, one linebacker, a drop-off at tight-end after Carlson. What we all saw Saturday was a one-dimensial offense that acutally moved the ball decently considering.

If you note anything about USC and OSU, someone breaks a leg, the next guy's a starter. Not the same with us my friends.
Correction | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 7:00 pm | #

Correction "Chuck did NOT.."
Correction | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 7:01 pm | #

RE: Shark laughing.

I had a different reaction to his laughter. I thought it was awesome how loose he was, and I thought it was awesome that he was keeping each other loose.

There are things the Shark does that turn me off. I remember him taunting a defender with a come-and-get-me finger wag as he crossed the goal line, for instance. Pretty bush league.

But I took his laughter at the UCLA game as a positive. An expression of boundless (perhaps even irrational) confidence. You don't make plays like his final catch-and-run without believing that the usual rules don't apply to you, and I think he's one of those gifted athletes who believes that to his very soul.

Hal
Hal | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 7:08 pm | #

i am wondering if you guys actually wanna play in the Rose Bowl. being as honest with yourselves as possible, do you truly believe that you will be able to compete with UM? maybe wisconsin in the capital one bowl would be more your speed. it would be about UM 34 ND 14 the second time around.
Maize&Smeef | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 7:34 pm | #

Great game guys. Charlie definitely has the team going in a better direction now that I'm gone. Yeah its definitely my fault seeing how you guys scored one more TD than I did against USC with True frosh and sophmores and Charles had mostly senior laden team. I can't wait to watch your games next year when you have to break in all the kids at QB, WR, O-line,DB's, and LB's.

Hey, when are you guys gonna stop using my name and quit blaming me for 2 years worth blowout losses to OSU, Mich, USC and anybody else ranked in the top 20???????
Tyrone Willingham | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 7:43 pm | #

Easy, Tyrone. You had a freshman QB back in 2003 and you were 4-5, while your predecessor had a frosh QB in 2000 and went 7-1 with him.

Stick it.
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 8:06 pm | #

Mike D, you are on the money. As we have seen, there is a big gap between tOSU, UM, USC and the rest of D1 this year. I think if we play an SEC team there is no reason to think we couldn't win, possibly dominate. The Gators are rebuilding too and don't have the speed to embarrass us the way USC and UM did. That's been the key this year, make no mistake. I look forward to the BCS bowl we play and especially to making all the pundits eat crow when we finish 11-2. Gee whiz all that and Chuck's pressers on the web too? I'm happy and this has been a successful year. Once we win our bowl game. Which we will do.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 8:22 pm | #

1. To whomever thinks we can't handle Florida...

Florida has had significant losses to their defensive line towards the end of the season (which is one of the reasons that the talking heads have refused to rank them higher). We have a strong chance of beating them if we play, and we definitely have the better coach!

2. Arkansas is a no-brainer. McFadden may be awesome, but a one man/ one-dimensional team can't beat us. I think of any team out there, we have the best coaching staff to game plan against Arkansas. We'll show the rest of the SEC how to beat them next year.

3. Coach Minter: How can anyone say he is terrible when he has no depth to work with? Our replacements looked flat because they would never get any playing time on any other top 10 team. And he did make adjustments in the second quarter that gave us scoring opportunities. But you can't make any adjustment to contain Jarrett with the level of talent we have.

4. Weis is still the best offensive coach. We did take several plays to score our first touchdown, but the play that lost yards (the option), it looked to me like BQ checked out of the original play. I could be wrong on that, but I'm not wrong on CW. We faced a defense that Poodle says is his best so far, and we had opportunities that we simply missed (BQ overthrew a wide open McKnight on 4th down; McKnight dropped the slant pass on 4th down). CW made the right calls, we just didn't play a perfect game like needed to against such a talented USC team.

5. Finally, Go Irish! Win a Bowl Game!!!
Jeremy | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 8:23 pm | #

c-stone....not as much of an advantage in that big play stat you cited about all of USC's big plays over 20 and over 10 yards. Here's ND's stat.

ND plays 20+ yards: 6
ND plays 10+ yards: 12

Granted, ND had longer to go in all of its drives than USC did. But still doesn't seem like that much of a disparity as the reason for the loss.

Bottom line we didn't capitalize on TOs. 0 pts off TOs. Get anywhere from 7-14 on the 2 2nd Quarter TOs there and it's a different ballgame at halftime.
Jice | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 8:54 pm | #

most telling statistic Quinn 88 yds rushing
Tom McGrath | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 9:07 pm | #

With all due respect to the dead...the thought occurrs to me that Bo, if he went to Big-House-In-The-Sky when he died, must hate ND more than he loves Michigan 'cause he sure didn't do his old school any favors last Saturday night.

On the other hand, maybe he didn't get a chance to ask any favors 'cause he's too busy callin' for the water boy to bring him ever so much as a drop of water to cool those coals 'round him...
BobJ | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 9:40 pm | #

I think the more we digest this game, the more we realize that we beat ourselves. Don't get me wrong, hats off to USC players and coaches but I don't think it was a simple case of them having the better talent. I think these guys may have been playing with to much pressure and thus played to tight. Yeah we didn't have a championship berth no the line but these guys knew that they needed to beat USC to shut everyone up and I think that got to them. Our staff needs to do a better job of getting these guys to stay loose. Remember, Charlie was never a head football coach and was only in the college ranks for one year in his career prior. I think with his personality and style it will take a few years to fully adjust his mental prep. Guys like Pete Carrol with their personalities adjust a lot easier to keeping college age guys loose and ready. I don't know if this is true, but in a week of trying to make yourself feel better I am going to subscribe to this.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 9:47 pm | #

I love you brad and all of your what-if's. this could have been a close game if we scored more points. no shit
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 10:54 pm | #

fellers, about the only interesting thing left to see is how much lower the voters will drop the irish after next weekend's games, when a couple teams ahead of us will lose. they need to do their best to have us ranked below #14 in the bcs.

the big ten is dog-shit after the top two, so wisconsin being left out is laughable (check out their ooc schedule). even if the fla-ark game is close, one of the three (with lsu)is out due to bcs rules. and i don't see any bowl picking wva or rutgers ahead of us. so if nd remains in the top 14, we're in.
yz | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 11:29 pm | #

One thought on our poor bowl performance:

We sell more tickets, so we are consistently playing up in bowl games. I think it comes with the territory.

Was anyone else turned off by Mooseknuckle, Davies, and company pimping specific bowl match ups? Did they get a script from the front office or what? What fan of college football is interested in re-matches, especially ones as meaningless as UM-ND. I think we will probably play again before too long.

Does anyone in the entire college football universe say to themselves, "Thank goodness that clever, knowledgeable Brent Mooseknuckle chap will add meaning to my veiwing experience today!"??? Not every announcer needs to be a pro bowler, but this guy wrote for his high school paper instead of playing football for goodness sake. His only link to football whatsoever is that he was there the day they invented Smear the Queer, holding the ball as I recall.
Fenian Fox | Email | Homepage | 11.27.06 - 11:39 pm | #

Why is Pete Carroll nicknamed the Poodle?
AaronIrish | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 12:44 am | #

AaronIrish...

I'm gonna guess its his hair?
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 1:19 am | #

Fenian,

In a recent poll of my friends on a non-football related matter I asked my friends if they could kill 3 famous people who would they be?

Of course I got the standards: Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, Rush Limbaugh etc...but one of my friends came up with BRENT MUSBERGER out of no where...and after watching that game I understand why.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 1:22 am | #

On the subject of efficiency, there's one stat I've never seen any stat site track: Points per Posession. This strikes me as an obscure, yet at the same time, the most obvious way to judge an offense. If you have a team that averages 50 points per game, but does so because they pass all the time and play teams that also pass all the time, and thus between them run 180 plays, is that really a good offense? as opposed to the team that runs up the gut 40 times a game, shortening it to the point each team has the ball twice per half, and scores 24 points a game. The first team gives an opponent probably 12 chances to score, a potential ~80 points, and if their defense sucks, could lose by 30. The second team gives their opponents the ball and an opportunity to score as much as 32 points, and thus will never lose by more than 8, and almost always win.
crazy tom | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:11 am | #

I think the more we digest this game, the more we realize that we beat ourselves.
***********************************
Line of the year....LMAO. OK, maybe if America didn't watch the game, somebody would totally agree with you. By the way its been two full seasons for Charlie now.

So lets say hypothetically, that Charlie loses a bunch of games next year. Is he on the hot seat???? What does Notre Dame do to cover 30 million dollars????
Tyrone Willingham | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:46 am | #

Someone asked why is it so hard to get a decent kicker. I ask, why is it so hard to get a decentfriggin' secondary? Our secondary has basically sucked well back into the latter Lou Holts days, which featured the famous "bend but don't break" defense. It continued to suck under defensive guru Bob Davie, then under Ty Willingham, and now under Charlie Weiss. Are we not recruiting d-backs with speed and instincts? Are we cronically unable to hire a kick-ass defensive coordinator? Both? Bottom line, we will never compete for number one ranking lower than 80th in the country in pass defense efficiency and giving up 23+ points a game. Let's get a defense, finally.
IM4Defense | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:11 am | #

IM$Defense, don't forget that the secondary carried Tyrone to his vaunted 8-0 record that the talking heads threw back in our faces when we gave him his marching orders. Perhaps we need to recruit more guys off the soccer team.
Matt J. | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:17 am | #

Funny when we were 8-0 in 2002 all the analysts said we weren't as good as our record...but when we send Tyrone "I'm a nice guy, but a horrible coach" Willingham packing, that 8-0 record was somehow magical.

Honestly I don't know that Ty coached or recruited a single day when he was at ND. I do know he golfed though...alot...

It will take a little time to undo Ty's damage, but look at what Weis has done while righting the ship. 9-3 last year. Maybe 11-2 this year.

GO IRISH
Mike D | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 9:04 am | #

I think it was PM that brought up a great point about Charlie being very early in his head coaching career. Coordinators typically are much less involved with team dynamics and emotion levels, instead focusing on x's and o's and tactical strategy. I think that as Charlie goes on he is going to gain skill in the area of team motivation, especially when it comes to motivating a bunch of college kids (who can be notoriously fickle). I think that this helps to answer some questions people have raised about the team coming out flat. Look for this to improve, as its something that comes with experience.

Secondly, with regards to playing an SEC team in a bowl game...

I do think we could beat Florida or Ark. for the simple reason that we are a more balanced team than they are (never thought I'd say that this season).

From the couple games I've seen from Florida, they have a suspect Oline and a pathetic run game. They get all of their rushing yards out of Tebow on options/QB draws, or they swing Percy Harvin around from his WR spot on options pitches and reverses. Their RBs have struggled all year long. I disagree that Florida doesn't have great team speed (someone above said that I think). Percy Harvin scares the shit out of me, and he's easily as fast as Ginn or Manningham. He could torch us, but his role in the offense is still limited at this stage. We could focus on the Pass D strongly, and I don't think this team could put up enough points on us. Their D is good, but their secondary (while Ubertalented) is young and we could put up points on them. No team in the SEC can throw the ball around like we can.

Arkansas is the team that scares me a bit more, but for other reasons. This team is the opposite of Florida. The have one of the best rushing games in the country, but can't pass for shit (RB McFadden was their leading passer against LSU). McFadden is a beast and future Heisman winner. This team would run all over our team, endlessly, as their backs are great and their Oline huge. Yet if we could put up some points in the first half it would make it tough on them, though they have a tough D. Bottom line is we could win, but their RBs (McFadden and Felix) would easily combine for 300 rushing yards on us.

Take your pick. Its that or Michigan.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 9:40 am | #

"i don't see any bowl picking wva or rutgers ahead of us. so if nd remains in the top 14, we're in"

But a bowl could pick Louisville (BCS #6) ahead of ND (BCS #10). Rutgers goes in automatically as the Big East champ if they beat WVU on Saturday even though they will be ranked behind Louisville.
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 9:46 am | #

I have a rating system that collects Game Efficiency data (a function of maximizing a team's own possessions and minimizing its opponent's possessions). It measures only competitive possessions played in a game, ignoring garbage time stops and scores. Click on my homepage to see the latest updated rankings.
LaFortune Teller | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 9:47 am | #

Not to be sarcastic, but the first thought I had was "blinding glimpse of the obvious." Which isn't exactly accurate since the numbers don't indicate the number of dropped passes. The relevance is that the efficiency, or lack thereof, is directly related to the number of dropped passes. Certain passes are completed (as have been through the past five games for the most part) and drives stay alive and points go on the board. Couldn't agree with you more and that's what we were saying during the game. More dropped passes than I saw all year and its the biggest game of the year. Geesh. I love what this team has done under CW and I know we on the right track. I just can't believe all this talking about the talent. If people executed (like that first drive to go ahead) and the whole game could have turned into a replay of last ... at least ... or better.

And what's with the kicking gripes. Who cares. Its dead-on in general... if your in a close game. But the kicking has nothing to do with why we lost Saturday. We needed TDs, not FGs. Not KO/PR coverage is a different story.
justright | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:00 am | #

Um, Tyrone, Charlie is 19-5 (to date), loses most of his starters, and has no senior or junior class to speak of next year (and who's fault is that?). His future won't be decided by the record for '07.

As for ND beating themselves, having no ability to kick a 40+ yard field goal (or onside kick for that matter), dropping passes on 4th down, fumbling inside the 5, and being unable to convert points on turnovers generally means you hurt yourself. No doubt, U$C beat ND, but the Irish didn't exactly make it too hard for them either.

I know it's snowing up in Seattle today, Tyrone, so you can't go play golf, but you could use your computer for more constructive things, like e-mailing recruits. I know a couple of UW fans (the two that are left) that might actually like to see a competitive team someday. I've told them repeatedly that Ty will give them some well-molded men, they just won't be great football players, but they still hold out hope.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:13 am | #

Personally, I want Michigan again. I know they are a better team, but I think it would add an extra meaning to the bowl game. This season has had some disappointment and I think a hard fought win over a team that killed us earlier would end the season right. And yes, I know Michigan would probably be a 7-10 point favorite in the game, but I don't care. We need some sort of redemption for a season that was hyped so much. Granted, it was still a solid season, but those two games really hurt us. So I say we head to Pasedena and try and take down the skunks.
ND101 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:49 am | #

agreed, canuck, just assuming wva beats rutgers this weekend.

anyone know if they publish the coaches votes after the regular season or bowl games?
yz | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:11 am | #

@ yz - I'm pretty sure it's after the regular season - I remember being p*ssed at Spurrier & others last year in early December - I'll probably have the same reaction this year
BurbankSteve | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:16 am | #

er, coach's.

and actually, if they're in the top 8, they're guaranteed a spot. so we all need to root for wva.
yz | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:17 am | #

Tyrone Willingham,
I'm surprised you have the time to post on sports blogs what with your lucrative DiGiorno's contract and all.
full power 24 hour | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:21 am | #

JohnWA
Its hard out here. I gotta clean up weasels mess that he left for me. You wanna talk about no talent, name one player outside of Isiah on the squad??? Just one??????? Yeah but its cool, you guys should give Charlie twice the amount of time you gave me because he is like 10-2 against the most ferocious schedule in all of america. Hey whats your SOS for this season????? But I totally understand how you guys are giving Charlie more time because he sounds like he working so hard and accomplishing so much being the uber genius coach and all. I'm in agreement lets just give him more time to prove the obvious.


For the USC game next year, try growing the grass higher, like bushlands high. Maybe throw in some wild cheetahs and lions.
Tyrone Willingham | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:26 am | #

I'm surprised you have the time to post on sports blogs what with your lucrative DiGiorno's contract and all.
*************************************
I know right. We shot that after the USC game. It was a great game where we lost at the last second due to some pitiful officiating. We almost won the game. Dam weasel left me zero talent I tell you. Just think what would of happened had I played top level recruits??? How did you guys fare against USC speaking of which???????
Tyrone Willingham | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:31 am | #

Tyrone,

Sagarin SOS? Notre Dame #19. Tougher than all 4 SEC teams ahead of ND in the AP:

Florida 27
LSU 25
Arkansas 49
Auburn 29
canuck | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:40 am | #

Brad, not sure I agree with your Arkansas assessment, I do on the running game of the Hogs as it is for real as they have schooled every defense including SC's with their running game. Its for real guys. As for the passsing, its never been great but last week was an exception to the rule. They are not that bad (not good either) of a passing team. LSU has maybe the best D in the nation. LSU took it to them and Casey Dick just fell apart. All that said and done, Marcus Monk is a poor man's Dwayne Jarrett, he's huge and had good hands and has some speed, just not quite as good as DJ. Damian williams although not big, can run like the wind. Good luck covering him. What I don't know is if he is injured as I don't follow the hogs that close anymore. The Hog D is not as fast as SC's so that is to your advantage but their backers are pretty darn good, their front DL is decent too. I think like you guys, their DB's are suspect and that is something that BQ can really exploit. In the end though, if they get any kind of lead on you guys, they will methodically march up and down the field on you with that running game, that is if DMac doesn't take one to the house a couple of times for 60 or 80 yards. He (DMAC) would get my Heisman vote if I had one.
TrojanHorse98 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:41 am | #

TrojanHorse98,

Yeah, DMac definitely does not suck. What's scary is the guy is playing on a surgically repaired big toe. Yikes. Agreed on how they can kill the clock, my point was that ND would have to get points on the board fast, which could be possible due to the overall lack of passing typical of the SEC. ND's front 7 isn't exactly stellar against the run, but we have had some practice against option teams which should help us a bit in staying home to make the play.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 12:47 pm | #

Hey Ty,

Instead of posting your inanities on this blog, why don't you use your time to improve your handicap? And I don't mean your golf game, but your mental handicap.

Charlie will still be at ND long after U of Washington has booted your sorry butt to the curb.
Irish_Angst | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 1:32 pm | #

Last year we beat Michigan and lost to USC on a crazy last play. Now this year we suddenly just don't have enough talent to even compete. Please.


Boob's teams were better at special teams and much better at defense. Too bad he didn't hire CW as offensive coordinator.
Moose Krause | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 1:34 pm | #

Last year Michigan was floundering and our OL and linebackers didn't suck. Oh, and we had a place kicker we could trust from forty yards.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 1:39 pm | #

Now this year we suddenly just don't have enough talent to even compete. Please.
****************************************
Its my fault. Even though I've been gone for 3 years now, its my fault. I'm the reason Arrelious Benn went to Illinois. I'm the reason Barksdale, Wilson, Hughes won't commit. I'm the reason we got smoked by double digits to my biggest rivals. I'm the reason we almost lost to 3-9 MSU squad. I'm the reason we almost lost to UCLA team that is inept to say the least. Blame ME ME ME ME ME ME ME forever guys. I can carry it all.
Tyrone Willingham | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 1:43 pm | #

Crazy idea (has this been mentioned before?) Get rid of Minter and bring back Bob Davie as Defensive Coordinator. That was the role he did well in, right?
Berger | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:02 pm | #

That's actually Tyrone Willingham. Thank you for gracing us with your presence, Coach.

Speaking of former baw coaches, I loved the salute to Bob Davie as the conquerer of USC. However, no mention was made of getting Jarious Jackson injured at the end of the LSU game in '98 http://und.cstv.com/sports/m-foo.../ 112198aab.html and ensuring that the offense would be absolutely clueless in a 10-0 loss to the Trojans that cost us a spot in a BCS game. http://und.cstv.com/sports/m-foo.../ 112998aaa.html

Don't worry, Ty. It's not just you. There's ample disdain to go around for former head coaches. It's all good, though. Here's to better days! Cheers!
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:11 pm | #

Wow, Tyrone, if you had shown this much stubborness at ND, you might still be coach there (other than the stubborness in defending the joke of a coaching staff). As for lack of talent at UDub, true, the cupboard is bare. Now go get some more JUCO guys who won't pan out. And don't even talk about getting "smoked" by rivals by double-digits. That's the funniest thing I've ever heard (for more information on why that's funny, see "coaches, ND, worst blowout losses"). Oh, and the MSU game was a win for ND because the coach and team stayed in it and played hard (unlike years prior). The "almost" win against the Trojans by UW was a loss because you couldn't manage a clock if they gave you the controls for it.

Now go away.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:12 pm | #

Hey, if Bob Davie became the DCoord at ND you wouldn't hear me complaining. For whatever flaws he had, that guy knew how to put a defense together.

At the same time though, I'm still not ready to quit on Minter. I know, I know, just give me a second before you try to find me and start huckin' rocks at me. While our defense is obviously not performing at the levels typical of ND (years ago, not the past 4 years) I think you have to take into account the uphill climb he has had to face.

Our defense was miserable at the time Minter took over it. Last year they were awful, but at least made some key turnovers. This year they are better (much fewer big plays, though its still an issue) but with less turnovers. We have no depth at LB (note: Travis Thomas), shaky depth on the DL at best (though the most talent), and we are just now BEGINNING to develop some depth in the secondary.

I'm not saying Minter is ever going to field a Top 10 D. I'm just saying that he hasn't had nearly as much to work with. I'm not disagreeing with those that are upset with the D, just making a couple observations.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:43 pm | #

It's not delivery. It's DiGiorno's.
Tyrone Willingham | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:46 pm | #

"Its my fault. Even though I've been gone for 3 years now, its my fault. I'm the reason Arrelious Benn went to Illinois. I'm the reason Barksdale, Wilson, Hughes won't commit."

No, you're the reason we've barely got any sophomores or juniors on the team. Pay attention, you've only been upbraided for this every time someone discusses the poor state of the team CW inherited.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:54 pm | #

True enough, Brad. I'm not comfortable with throwing Minter under the bus this quickly either, but at the same time, ND shouldn't be getting gashed as badly as they have been with the talent the team does have. There's no reason I can see that Zibby and Ndukwe should have been as far out of position as they have been at times on long plays. I know they have basically had to play LB at times, but it just seems that the scheme isn't working and the players haven't shown the leap we all thought they would with another year of experience. It's also true that Minter hasn't really fielded a great defense other than when he's had tremendous NFL-caliber talent on the field. I'm pretty sure I could have used the defenses in my NCAA '07 game and done pretty well with the '92-'93 guys.

Count me as cautiously in on the Bob Davie for DC bandwagon. Not only does it give ND a proven DC, but it also means we wouldn't have to listen to him announce Saturday Night Footbaw games.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 2:57 pm | #

I picked the Trojans by 18...so I wasn't surprised by the outcome. What I am surprised about is why SC didn't throw downfield every play. If they had they would have won by 40.

Slow cornerbacks that can't tackle...undersized linebackers...limited talent at running back...oh!...and a kickoff "specialist that can't get the ball past the 20 giving the opposition a short field to play with. CW needs to keep recruiting hard...by the way...do you see the recruiting red flags this year?
jim Harrigan | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 3:30 pm | #

Jim,

I don't necessarily know that our corners are slow. Lambert and Wooden are pretty fleet of foot. Richardson is definitely not a burner, and I think he should be playing free safety on this team.

However, I don't think it was our corner "speed" that did us in the other night. How many plays did the safety's make?

I do agree that our tackling was poor, particularly Richardson's effort against Jarrett in the 4th quarter.
Coach Leahy | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 3:57 pm | #

Coach...play last year's SC game over in your mind (4th and 9)...along with this year's Michigan game...last year's OSU game...and this year's SC game...and then tell me that the ND cornerbacks are adequate. For two years they've been an embarrassment and not up to even Division 2 standards.
jim Harrigan | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:06 pm | #

Tackling was the one thing that stood out to me in the SC game. I don't know how many times SC's LBs and DBs made great tackles by wrapping up the legs of our ball carriers. Seems to me we were trying to grab up around the shoulder pads. Poor technique that needs to be addressed before the bowl.

I do have to say that I am going to miss BQ. It's been a long time since I haven't had to hold my breath every time we dropped back to pass (maybe going back to McDougal or even Rice). If we get half of his production next year with his backups or JC, we will be lucky.
GRNDFan | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:14 pm | #

Enough of the Ty-Dub bashing!

He and Weis are, by the numbers, equally successful the past two years...

04-05 Willingham vs Pac-10: 4-13
04-05 Weis vs Pac-10: 4-2

See? They both beat Pac-10 foes 4 times! And with someone else's recruits, to boot!
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:31 pm | #

Berger, Brad,

I asked the Domer-nation about who is better at X's + O's: "No Jam" Minter or "Footbaw" Bob. Most people grudgingly agreed that Davie was the better DC. If we looked at our losses when Holtz was the HC + Davie DC, most of the losses were due to lack of offense. Given the same talent (high or low), I would take Davie any day of the week. Alumni politics makes that an impossibility, but a good thought, none-the-ess.

CW took TW's "untalented" offense and turned it into a juggernaut in 1 year. Didn't Michigan and UCLA see huge defensive jumps when they changed their DC's? I expect something to improve year over year: tackling, scheme, blitz effectiveness, shedding block technique, new wrinkles, something. We got worse year-over-year with pretty similar talent. Not as good at LB, but similar.

A few other items.

1) Polian needs to go. We are back to "Not-so-special teams." Holtz P/K defending teams never gave up a TD return. Our kicking has always been a problem, but going for six 4th downs means some changes are needed.

2) MSU with a new coach ain't gonna be the fragile psyche imploding time bomb they have always been. We need to be ready next year.

3) TW went down with his OC. CW will make changes before his seat gets too hot. Polian and Minter are making CW's seat lukewarm. CW will dump them before it gets to a simmer.

Go Irish! Win a bowl game.

P.S. Who are the top DC's out there that we should be looking at?
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:02 pm | #

I'm more inclined to blame poor recruitment versus poor coaching. There's not too many DCs/position coaches out there that are able to turn the proverbial sows ear into gold (to mix my metaphors). That's what bothers me about this year's recruitment effort...there's a whole herd of Willingham seniors and Weis juniors that should be watching vs. playing in 2007/2008.
jim harrigan/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:45 pm | #

Statistics can be funny things. Who was it that loaded up against us, even though losing (UNC? Navy? I'm too lazy to look those things up). We are clearly not yet in the class of USC. The good news is, neither does anyone else appear to be. For all of my utter disdain for them, I must admit that PC brought them along near perfectly. They can easily be forgiven a loss to a conference team (which they'd have won with another minute on the clock)moreso in light of our MSU and UCLA comeback wins.

What still disturbs me is that the 2006 team appeared to slide from the 2005 version. The O-line was simply poor; how else do you describe a unit with so much experience coming into this season (plus, having the nation's best freshman OL as a new member, to boot)? DW assumed true legend status by having to earn, then earn again, every yard he gained this year.

CW has some very interesting (and, to be, highly scrutinized) decisions coming up. The "speed" he promised in the summer (on D) must have graduated. The offense, which I'd term exceptional in 2005, never seemed to settle in this year. What I'll ask, if no one else is comfortable in so doing, is "why didn't we get more PT for so many undercalssmen, especially in the last 5-6 games of the year?" The answer to that needs to be addressed from a systemic perspective: a blip versus a UNC of Aermy can't be more than a quarter or so, not with the talent and experience on this year's team. That time was needed. 2007 may haunt us in showing how badly experience is needed. What went wrong? Did we catch everyone that unaware last year, or have everyone else close the gap on us this year? A possibility. But too many close games against less-than-top opponents have raised more than just my eyebrows.

No way will I politic for a bigger bowl game. I can remember when we were the incredible exception in CFB, and would decline playing post-season if we felt we didn't match up with our expectations. That Notre Dame, and that era of CFB, is long gone. But I'd be very careful regarding a bowl this year.

And CW: I'll let you know when the next valid time to 'don the green' rolls around. In the meantime, good luck on the recruiting trail, and some pleasant surprises there would be duly appreciated.

Go Irish
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:46 pm | #

Most of the really "name" DC's that I can think of have already taken or are on the list of HC candidates. I'm sure Charlie has a few names in his rolodex however.

Jim, Wooden was in position on that 4th and 9 pass to Jarrett. That was just a damn fine completion by a Heisman QB to an All-American WR. Would a true topshelf shut-down corner have been that half-step faster, gotten his hands in just those few inches of position to knock the ball away, or made a tackle before Jarrett scampered for the extra yards? Maybe, but if ND had a corner like that, Leinart would have picked a different WR to throw to. Now I'm not arguing that ND doesn't need some fast players, but that doesn't make for a good example.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:48 pm | #

One of many I can recall!
jim harrigan/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:07 pm | #

As far as DCoords, I don't hear anyone talking about Jon Tenuta down at GaTech right now for a head coaching position. Great DCoord. Yet as I've said I think its much more likely to see Weis call up some NFL buddies to try and pick up a bright, young defensive mind. I'm sure Crennel, Big Tuna, and Belichek know a couple up-and-comers who are ready for a Coord position, but not at the NFL yet.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:01 pm | #

No offense, but terrible coaching had something to do with it. Take a look at that 2 of 6 number, and ask how well you do if you punt the ball six times instead.
Justin | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:33 pm | #

Just as poorly -- it's not like we were going for it from our own territory. I don't disagree with a single one of the fourth down conversion attempts.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 5:20 am | #

"As far as DCoords, I don't hear anyone talking about Jon Tenuta down at GaTech right now for a head coaching position. Great DCoord."

Exactly right! I would be very much in favor of trying to lure Tenuta away from GT - that man can coach a defense!

Ga Tech doesn't have top level talent on the defensive side of the ball, and yet they gave the potent ND offense fits. Remember that little fact next time you feel tempted to blame the defensive lapses on the alleged "talent" gap between ND and top tier programs.
christopher | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:47 pm | #