This is why BGS is so glorious. Clear and concise analysis from the writers and not mindless bluster like the rest of us write. Well done, Jay! I'm looking forward to the rest of the "breakdown".
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:30 pm | #

nicely done
suave_andrew | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:34 pm | #

From my vantage point in section 27 (one of the only meaningful plays in the game where fans in that godforesaken section had a vantage point) it looked like Quinn could have walked - well maybe jogged - to the first down on the 4th and 9 that killed the first drive - where he overthrew McKnight in the end zone.

What do you think?
chris | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:38 pm | #

Well done Jay. Kinda still hurts when your bleeding in the gutter to hear 'well done.'
Sir John | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:39 pm | #

Jay, I truly admire your passion. I haven't read this yet, but I will. As much of a fan as I am, you are many, many factors more a fan.

However, isn't this pretty pointless? For every mistake we made (and yes there were plenty) couldn't 'SC do the same? So instead of scoring 44, they would have scored >60? Or held us to less than 24?

To me, we can't have it both ways: we can't talk about all the missed opportunities we had and how it COULD have been closer, without doing the same for the opponent. Two things that come to mind immediately that 'SC could point to are the dropped TD by Smith (where they ended up getting 3) and the blocked punt (which turned into an easy 7 for us). That's 10 right there.

Isn't it enough to just say we don't have the athletes (yet) to compete with 'SC and that they're just plain and simple better than us? Isn't it torture to play the what if game? I know I bought into the what-ifs after tOSU and Michigan this year, but no more; we're simply not that talented right now.

CW has done an incredible job with the talent he has and we WILL have the horses in the years to come.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:41 pm | #

Chris, I thought so at first, but when the showed it from behind BQ, there was a linebacker in the middle that had finished his drop at the yellow first down line. So unless he pulls an Urlacher (ala Sunday vs. the Pats' Brady), BQ would have not made the first down running.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:43 pm | #

Rat --

You are correct to an extent, IMO, however, Rhema's drops kept us in a position in which the offense was predictable. The defense did everything they could to keep us in the game in the first half and the "juggernaut" that the Irish offense was supposed to be sputtered. The worst play of the game for me was the 4th down pass into the endzone ("for all the marbles"). What ever happened to "dinking and dunking"? Seems to me that Charlie outcoached himself.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:52 pm | #

Rat, sometimes I find it cathartic to look at a game in obsessive detail, and examine exactly why a drive worked or didn't work. I feel like a radiologist looking at an x-ray; sometimes it's enough to know that your leg hurts, and sometimes it's good to know that it's a stress fracture of the tibia and it's going to take 8 weeks to heal.

Anyway, this is a perfect game to dissect. There were long passes given up, blunders in coverage, questionable playcalling, catches that should have been made, poor execution, etc. I think there is a lot more to this game than simply, "we don't have the athletes." Although that definitely came into play as well, especially with regards to any Irish DB vs Dwayne Jarrett.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 4:58 pm | #

Chris,

I was in that same section. Not sure if you were upper deck or not, but those were some of the worst seats I have ever had for a football game. I watched half the game on the damn jumbotron. The Coliseum, though historic, really needs some upgrades fast. Especially now that USC is going to be a perennial power and many big games will be played there.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:06 pm | #

I've been saying all year... QUINN FOR HEISMAN!!

STEVE Quinn, of course!!
senior | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:11 pm | #

ESPN/ABC has the more than adequate Brad Nessler (who was the # 1 guy until Keith Jackson unretired), and they make Musberger # 1? Fucking idiots.

One other advantage of not going to the Rose Bowl would be not having to put up with that clown again. After all, Fox couldn't do worse. Well, at least I hope not...
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:21 pm | #

Jay -- I noticed the mention of the open middle early, which TMQ also commented on. He seemed to think that ND never adjusted to take it away, which one of your bits has already suggested is not true. That might be something to keep an eye on the rest of the way.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:27 pm | #

"The defense did everything they could to keep us in the game in the first half..."

Jake, were we watching the same game?

Didn't the porous Irish Defense surrender 21 points on the Trojans opening 3 drives before finally getting a stop?
christopher | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:31 pm | #

christopher --

Blocked punt and 2 interceptions. Points off the blocked punt. Two wasted drives off the picks. 3 straight TDs to start for SC then the defense locked down pretty good. If the offense even manages field goals off the interceptions we go to half down 6. What may have happened we will never know, but the fact is that the D, after surrendering 21 easy points, played very well to end the 1st half.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:35 pm | #

Anybody have any idea why McKnight would develop a case of the drops just in time for the USC game?
The Butabi Brothers | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:40 pm | #

Jake, was it the defense playing well or A$$man suddenly acting like Drew Weatherford that caused the 'SC offense to slow down? The pick by Richardson was a nice play, but the second pick A$$man threw was Grossmanesque (in other words, a horrible, horrible pick). He righted himself to open the 2nd half going right through our D ... again.

We barely got to the QB and our DBs couldn't cover worth a damn because they are S-L-O-W.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:40 pm | #

Beg to differ on the ease of the Laws pick. That was a very athletic play by Trevor. It definitely wasn't "right to him".
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:43 pm | #

Not saying it wasn't a good play, but A$$man panicked on the play; if he doesn't panick, that throw isn't made.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:53 pm | #

Rat -- I will grant that our D is "S-L-O-W" and we don't have the depth of the elite programs, but you can't disregard the fact that lesser teams often play beyond their natural abilities and sometimes beat stronger teams (see e.g. Oregon State -- how does Oregon State's offense put up points against SC and our Heisman candidate QB and All-American receivers get stoned?). We don't know what would have happened if the D saw a return on their strong play to end the half. Rhema dropped easy passes and Brady seemed to be making poor decisions. The offense is our strength and it barely showed up.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 5:57 pm | #

It's all academic at this point, the "what-ifs" and "what-nots," but I was much more disappointed that the offense sputtered than seeing our defense perform much as it has all season. I expected the D to be spotty and hoped for some turnovers (which we got) in the mistaken belief that the offense would capitalize.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:07 pm | #

Regarding the Quinn pass for all the marbles... I don't know if you can blame Weis on that one...

I remember Weis' expression after that pass... it was something like, "I thought I taught you not to do that anymore!"

That pass was typical of BQ's first two seasons at ND.
Berger | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:12 pm | #

Jake, I think our offense was definitely affected by the speed of 'SC's defense. To say it "barely showed up" is really insulting to our guys. Brady played his ass off. The O-line did much better than I thought they would. Yes, he made some poor decisions/inaccurate throws, and there were drops.

Samardzija was non-existent until 'SC's defense got soft on our last TD drive and allowed him some room on crossing routes underneath.

One question I have is (and I don't have the answer, but I do have a theory): Was Jeff nowhere to be found because of the coverage by 'SC or because he had a difficult time against top-flight athletes in 'SC's secondary? I'm assuming the latter. The play #8 (Ellison I think), made in the endzone in the 3rd to step in front of Rhema and knock the ball away (right before the TD) is the kind of play we need Walls, et. al. to make if we're going to compete in the future. Same goes for the play #7 made on our final play (the 4th and 1) where he stepped in front and knocked the ball away.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:16 pm | #

i feel for rhema and his drops in this game. hes from southern california and im sure he was trying to make big plays instead of securing the ball. on the 2 slant drops, he already made his secondary cut before he held onto it, which is indicative of trying to hard and not maintaining focus. the end zone drop was a tough catch but something he should hang on to. i feel bad for him because you know he feels awful about it, but he'll have a good future in the NFL.
mike | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:17 pm | #

Yeah every game there are what-if's, and it is all about execution. but isn't that what makes a good team, is executing? I mean that's why you practice.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:18 pm | #

I also watched the game on TiVo again last night. My biggest concern is not the DB's, although I must admit it will be nice not to see Ndu getting worked play after play.

My concern is the linebacker position. If Crum and Brockington aren't blitzing, why aren't they getting more than one yard of depth in coverage. On USC's first three drives/scores, they had continued success going right over our linebackers and in front of our safeties. When the linebackers did commit to the blitz, the didn't come close to Booty (with the exception of Brockington's sack in garbage time). Now, recall Rivers, Maualuga and Sartz (aka, Goeff Price's B**ch). How many plays did we get in the 15 yard range over the middle? One (shark)? They were also running down all the short patters/screens/outside runs.

Though our LBs did begin to get back into coverage in the second half, it was already too late...anyway the better coverage just meant more spectacular plays for Jarrett (WOW).

Give the DBs a break (Lambert and Zibby played decent games, at least to the extent that they weren't playing on Jarrett's side of the field. And Richardson is my MVP for the day...at least he made some plays...a headhunter and a better than average cover man).
Houser | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:18 pm | #

"Anybody have any idea why McKnight would develop a case of the drops just in time for the USC game?"

He didn't. He's had the drops all year. Think back over the season, one fairly consistent quality has been McKnight's complete inconsistency at catching the ball. It's had me tearing out my hair all year. This was just the first game where we had an opponent who noted it, remembered it, and viciously abused it. Quinn has thrown pass after pass to McKnight, and he's dropped far, far too many of them. I honestly think he should have been dropped in the progression behind Grimes. He was just not making plays he had to make.
Proto | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:19 pm | #

Another question that's been bugging me. What the hell happened to Burkhart? Wasn't this kid the 2nd best kicker in the country coming in (behind the kid from SoCal that went to UCLA)?

How come he couldn't beat out Gioia, (who f*cking sucks by the way)? Gioia is the only kicker I've seen whose XPs seem to be on the way down when they hit the net instead of blasting into the top on an upward trajectory like most D1 kickers.

Not being able to trot out a kicker for a 46-yard FG when getting points and an early lead was critical is a disgrace. What, are we back to the days of relying on walk-ons to be the starting FG kicker? I don't understand it.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:19 pm | #

oh yeah, does anyone love brian cushing's estrogen issues? how come someone with obvious signs of steroid abuse from btich tits to him looking like a woman has not been tested for roids?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 6:33 pm | #

Jay,
That was incredible analysis and confirms a lot of what some of us have posted before (i.e. that this wasn't disaster that everyone thought). I'm sure that CW would agree with your analysis (you may want to send it to him and see)and probably add a few things (i.e what happened to Ndukwe which forced him to Bruton).

The key is taking that analysis, applying to Florida (or whoever we play) and coming up with a win. It would certainly feel good to shut Meyer up (although he may be the odd man out if he doesn't win his playoff game against Arky).

Go Irish!
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:11 pm | #

Yeah, McKnight's had "a case of the drops" all year long. With him, you never know who's gonna show up to the play - good Rhema, or Rhema McSkillethands.
senior | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:14 pm | #

'Ol Jay must be married. A girlfriend would never have put up with this!
jim harrigan/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:19 pm | #

Agreeance on your PSA. In fact I think the only thing that was worse than the Irish Saturday night was the broadcast crew. Listening to that crew do the broadcast was like having to sit next to three numbskulls in a bar that don't make sense and won't shut up.

I didn't even know that Nedu was out with an injury for at least one quarter. Non existant play by play calling, bad camera work and that horrible piece of AFLAC trivia.
dbldomer7375 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:27 pm | #

Somehow I find reading this more painful than watching it unfold.

Ugh.

I love the breakdown Jay but not sure I can take the second part of this.
jaisn | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:36 pm | #

Jay,

On ND Drive 6, the 3-1 play looked like an option that BQ could have easily picked up the first down on but chose to pitch instead. I haven't watched the replay, but I remember at the time thinking, "why the crack did he pitch it?" The safety was clearly playing the pitch. It may not have gone for 10 yards, but BQ would easily have gotten 4-5. Am I wrong?
Michael | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:38 pm | #

I totally agree that if Brady had kept it, he could have waltzed across for a first down.

The puzzling thing is that Charlie said (in his one-on-one interview with Nolan) that Brady had the choice there:

"We've been running a lot of sneaks in that situation. The whole play for Brady was, if they took away his opportunity, [the pitch] was his option."

I guess Brady either just misread it, or it really was a called pitch and Charlie is just being coy.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:52 pm | #

Actually I believe the Grimes pass was used once before last year in the same situation, maybe BYU but I'm not sure. Darius had just been taken out in the last series so it appeared Grimes was just a substitute at running back, so the defense would not key in on a trick play. I don't think it worked last time either, but it's a good idea and the perfect situation to run a play like that.
Tim | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 7:55 pm | #

the whole thing about rhema droppin balls all year round is def something I have noticed as well. The thing that is weird is that one moment he will make an extremely athletic catch, and another moment he will drop an extremely easy ball. It has definitely baffled me all year long.
irishguy06 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:14 pm | #

Jay,

I normally do this same routine, film breakdown, win or lose. Can't bring myself to do it this time. One thing that you may pick up on if you watch it is how many times we are in max-protect or close to it. Watching the game live it seemed that we had a TE and/or RB staying in on almost every pass play - thus not enough receivers to stretch an already fast and athletic D. Didn't matter when they rushed 3,4 or blitzed a 5th or 6th. I also think we started to go away from that protection a little later in the game. Anyway, if I'm correct this is a perfect example of how quality of personnel affects game planning - a limiting effect in our case.
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:15 pm | #

I thought the O line played reasonably well in this game, and BQ played lights out. Some of the fade balls he threw to Rhema and Jeff were right in their outstretched hands - super catches if they are made (as they seemed to be last year) but most of them ended up in the dirt. It did seem as though our wideouts had trouble getting separation with or without the ball, and although I haven't rewatched the game I assumed this was a speed issue. It's hard to say receivers should be making those 'superman' catches look easy, but we didn't, and stalled.

Hindsight is 20/20, but defensively speaking it seems like Booty is possibly the weak link. He panicked a couple of times in the pocket, and in retrospect it seems that not picking at this weakness was a lost opportunity. Maybe we did, for all I know. But the Pats were masters of disguising blitzes and coverage, and I had hoped we might roll the dice a little more to keep Mr. B out of rhythm to try to exploit his weaknesses. My feelings on the DC today are that he will be great when we have the athletes to play 'no mistakes' fundamental defense and win against a top team. Not being there yet, to win seems to me to require a certain amount of calculated risk taking - especially when saved for the big game - that Charlie is so comfortable with on offense. Playing pressure, prevent, pressure play by play can really F with a skittish QB, and if Jarrett burns us for a big TD a couple of times, it's not like we were able to stop them from moving the chains.

I would like to hear from someone who has rewatched the game and knows defense - what was the emphasis? Where did it break down? Booty seemed awfully confortable most of the game, and the few times he wasn't, really really good things seemed to happen for us.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:16 pm | #

Paul, are you serious? "This wasn't the disaster that everyone thought?" Allow me to tell you exactly why it was in fact a total disaster:

- We lost by 20 on national freakin' TV to one or our top 2 rivals

- Despite Jay's wonderful analysis it was CRYSTAL CLEAR to everyone who is looking at it objectively: 'SC is MUCH better than ND

- All of our critics- a-hole May, Ivan d*ckhead, et. al. have ALL had their opinion of this program confirmed by Saturday's performance

- That game made it quite clear that ND is not there in competing for a NC (not yet)

- It may cost us some recruits

So, Paul, it was a disaster. Anyone who thinks otherwise has just drunk too much blue and gold koolaid. I was right there guzzling it after tOSU and UM, but the game Saturday was like the proverbial cold shower and pot of joe to come out a drunken stupor.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:28 pm | #

That option call to the short side was probably the dumbest call Weis has made all year for a couple reasons:

1) This isn't 1993 (the last time ND had an effective option attack). We DO NOT run option anymore.

2) There is NO WAY CW is going to let his star QB keep the ball on an option and risk his NFL career. Thus there never really was a pitch option. I don't take him at his word above

3) You don't run option to the short side unless a) you have a QB with wheels (like Pat White) or a RB with speed to burn (like Steve Slaton). I could see WVU running that play, but last I checked, BQ and D-Walk don't have White and Slaton's speed. I love D-Walk, but he's not fast enough to make that play.

I would have been fine to run the sneak TWICE in that situation.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:38 pm | #

Jay, I just finished reading it all. Was BQ really trying to do a fake sneak then option like SC did? A$$man ran that play phenomenally; if that was what BQ was trying to do, he did it REALLY poorly. I thought it was pure option all the way.

Also, note that 'SC ran their play to the wide side with a guy with speed (Gable).
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:51 pm | #

Anybody else in favor of posting a time limit on 'SC talk? I say after Friday we all move on. Great analysis though. The bowl game will be the true test for this team. Will they show or will they be waltzing on their way to some serious paychecks in the NFL. Time to sack up.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 9:16 pm | #

I thought the two options on that play were either a) BQ sneak or, if that wasn't available b) pitch to DW. I don't think BQ running around the end was part of the play.

Regarding the LBs, I distinctly remember one play where Crum(?) appeared to blitz but stopped at the line of scrimmage and tried to get back into coverage. Of course he was late and the play went over his head for something like 20 yards. Shouldn't he commit to either blitzing or dropping instead of essentially doing neither?
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 9:18 pm | #

I went through a similar analysis and came up with us leading at halftime 34-21 and winning by a final score of 51-44. We could/should have scored on 9 of 13 drives, 6 td's, 3 fg's with 4 punts & no turnovers. This would have required nearly perfect execution, similiar to last year, which we'd have to have to make up for the lack of depth & talent gap (thank ty - and boob davie can stick his comment about alot of credit going to ty, what an ass).

This is the 1st game I actually listened to the broadcast team & nearly had multiple anuerisms. Never again. Back to the surround sound with the voices down (crowd noise only) and synching up the streaming broadcast of the radio broadcast from the internet.

Go Irish
Go Irish Morrissey | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 9:28 pm | #

PM- I say let's stop now; time to give it a rest for a few days and then start talking about a) the bowl game and b) next year.

Morrissey- dude, you're joking right? If not, put down the bong and back slowly away ...
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:14 pm | #

Rat -- Morrissey is dead on. I was hitting the bong myself whilst redeeming the Irish via my trusty Xbox. Brady threw for about 600 and Darius ran for another 200 give or take. It felt real if for only a mmoment and was, well, perfect.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:27 pm | #

Jake, I can't say I've enjoyed the pleasure; no Xbox here, lest I'd never leave the house. The wife gets on me for blogging.

So tell me ... with the Xbox can you put Stams, Zorich, Stonebreaker, Bolcar, Lyght, Terrell, etc. on D? I might be willing take those guys as is (36-39 years old) over our current bunch.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:42 pm | #

Here's an off-topic stat to brighten your day: with his next win, head coach Charlie Weis will join some of the all-time great coaches in ND football history as the fastest to reach 20 wins.

The complete list (including some not-so-all-time greats):
1913-17 Jesse C. Harper 34-5-1 (.863) 23 games
1918-30 Knute Rockne 105-12-5 (.881) 23 games
1964-74 Ara Parseghian 95-17-4 (.836) 23 games
2005 Charlie Weis 19-5-0 (.792) ?? games
1941-43, 46-53 Frank Leahy 87-11-9 (.855) 26 games
1975-1980 Dan Devine 53-16-1 (.764) 27 games
1934-40 Elmer Layden 47-13-3 (.770) 28 games
1986-1996 Lou Holtz 100-30-2 (.765) 30 games
1954-58 Terry Brennan 32-18-0 (.640) 31 games
1997-2001 Bob Davie 35-25-0 (.583) 32 games
2002-2004 Tyrone Willingham 21-15-0 (.583)32 games
1981-1985 Gerry Faust 30-26-1 (.535) 37 games

With names like Rockne, Parseghian and Leahy next to yours, that ain't bad company.
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:48 pm | #

To "love" D. Walker you must know him personally...because as a running back he's too slow and/or too tentative. He won't be drafted in the first 5 rounds...if at all.
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:55 pm | #

It just hit me that the season is almost over. I remember how pumped and confident I was back in August, and it's pretty disappointing to see how things have panned out...especially with next year being a rebuilding season. After the way the USC game ended last year I was sure the boys would come out with smoke shooting from their ears, and that Zibby was gonna bowl over a half dozen USC cats before he went down on that opening kickoff. One of the biggest disappointments for me, of which I haven't seen anybody else mention, is how our guys seemed to lack fire when the game began. They seemed tentative and nervous instead of fiery-pissed-off and playing with revengeful passion. I was hoping Charlie and his staff could resurrect the feeling the players had after last year's game just before they stepped on the field.....but a 21-3 deficit obviously proves it didn't happen.

Mr. Clausen, please make it a fun season to watch next year, and here's hoping we can run the table in '08.
Tony Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 10:55 pm | #

So if Walker had received the pitch instead of Gable, would he have been able to put the move on Zibby and get the first?
Moose Krause | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:16 pm | #

for as fast as zibby is, he seems to be out of position a lot of the times.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 11:25 pm | #

Jay,
the punt after the second possession was terrible. A low line drive that the USC guy caught on the run. I won't say that the coverage wasn't bad but the punt was the bigger issue. Might have been easier for me to see from row 220 in the end zone.

Whoever asked to have the coliseum renovated, this is the fixed version. They moved the field down towards the west end zone and covered the low seats in the east end zone. They usually throw the band up in the ND seats.
paddy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:23 am | #

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/ne...=yhoo& type=lgns

This is rough. Now the fodder for Ohio State gets determined by looking at who beat us worse? Good Lord. ND haters must be loving life.
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:04 am | #

Tony, my thoughts exactly. What happened to the intensity and fire we saw last year? Since last year's near victory, I had Dwayne Jarrett in the back of my mind. I wish our defense had remembered him as well. Never thought he'd burn us again...over and over. I was sure we'd take care of business as far as he was concerned. No seasoned QB, Heisman tailback gone...Brady Quinn on our side...how could we lose? I even bought tickets to that dump they call the Coliseum to witness the take down! What a bitter disappointment. I don't even care about the bowl game...if we can't get fired up for SC, why should a bowl game be any different? We sure came out flat against OSU. Sorry to vent, I have really enjoyed this team most of the time. I just expected a lot more for such a huge game regardless of who has more talented athletes.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:13 am | #

yeah. the lack of passion was really disturbing. But it seems to have been that way all year long, save a few choice moments (4th quater MSU, late 4 mins of UCLA).

lets hope to god the underclassmen will be fired up next year. It is their chance to shine.
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:19 am | #

its progress . . . ND shut down the other receivers (no other receiver besides Jarrett had more then 3 catches and 35 yards)

and if you take away Jarrett . . . the game gets a lot closer.

we shut down Steve Smith; he had 3 for 35. Jarrett shouldn't be too suprising ND has got beaten for big plays by one receiver all year . . . Michigan, UNC, Prudue

Rhema did dropped too many balls.

And in 2007 and 2008 we will see how good charlie is as a college coach because it will be mostly his players.
Next year it will be 50 of his players; mostly freshmen and sophmores. I think Charlie has done an awesome job with Ty's (crappy coach)recruits but judgment day for Charlie will be coming soon. He's going to be judge by how he recruits (so far so good) and how he wins with his recruits (jury is still out) . . . I'm high on Charlie no doubt but when his recruits start coming in and getting to be upperclassman the National Championship should be coming otherwise Charlie will also bite the dust and get fired (moving on to John Gruden anyone? think what he did with tony dungy's players and getting them over the hump, they suck now but still they got a superbowl, we need to get one national championship)
thoughts | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:44 am | #

I am so sick of the hate on Carl Gioia. People, 40+ yard field goals are not gimmes. And we were not going to beat USC three points at a time. We needed touchdowns, and when we needed perfect execution the most, it wasn't there. Repeatedly.

Carl Gioia is a subpar kicker, but pinning our offensive performance on him is just silly.
marchand chronicles | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:47 am | #

Goia is more than a subpar kicker. The fact Weis is unwilling to even ATTEMPT a field goal over 40 yards says a lot about his abilities. No, this game was not lost because of him...but if we ever get in a game that's decided by a 42 yard field goal, we're going to regret having a terrible kicker.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 6:44 am | #

Now that the season is over except for the bowl game, I would like to hear about the recruiting efforts given that Weis is currently on his recruiting blitz. Let's hope he is more successful than our defense at blitzing.

At any rate, I would like to hear what anyone has to say about any current prospects. I am not sure if I should be concerned or not about only having 11 verbals so far. I think that tOSU only has 9 and USC only has 10. I know that the best recruits generally commit later in the year, so I am hoping that we get our share of those recruits. The average "stars" of the recruits is high for the ones we do have. I think only USC has a higher average. If anyone has any insights into recruiting, please share them. I think hearing some good recruiting stories (hopefully we have some) would do some good to the ND faithful after this weekend.
ND'90 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 8:26 am | #

Why has no one commented Jeff Z's huge contract to play baseball before the season even started, Zibby's off-season boxing career or the talk about Quinn's huge potential in the NFL. You can't tell me that those things did not impact their ability to emotionally lead the team this year. THERE WAS NEVER ANY FIRE OUT OF THIS TEAM ALL YEAR!!!!! Give me a break!
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 8:52 am | #

Back to the SC game really quick... I think the main reason that their LB's were able to drop back into passing lanes was the fact that we had MAX protection for Brady on about every play because of the way our line has played all year.
Darius was not wheeling out to the flat or sitting behind the the D-line for a pass because he was blocking all night. For this reason we had no legitimate threat of spreading the field wide and forcing their defense to think about 4-5 yard gains in the flat.
And if we think that we are able to get screen passes off on a defense with that speed, we might as well shoot ourselves in the foot.... oh wait.... nevermind.
Brian Q | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 9:22 am | #

Irish Rat,
Still don't believe it was the disaster you say it was (and I hope CW doesn't think so either) as our kids played their hearts out. I would also hope that you would be willing to share to your comments with CW and the kids in person and see what their reaction is as I'm sure you could have done a much better job.

But let me respond to your points:

- We did get beaten on National TV although it wasn't the disaster everyone thought it was as our kids played their hearts out.

- SC is better than we are at this point although not by as much as everyone thinks as our kids played their hearts out (PC has had a few years head start on CW).

- We are not ready for the NC game yet as our kids played their hearts (may be a few years away).

- All of our (fairweather) critics can go ---- themselves as all of their bantering doesn't mean ---- as our our kids played their hearts out.

- Actually, it help our recruiting as our kids played the their hearts out and if I'm a kid with any talent (and can get in) I may be able to start right away rather than riding the bench somewhere else (get a ND education in 4 years).

The only disaster I see is if we don't learn from this gane and get blown out again in a bowl game on National TV particularly against Florida and that we continue to focus on the negatives. I hope that you caught my theme and that our kids continue to play their hearts out (as that's all that really matters in the long run).

Go Irish!!
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 9:22 am | #

I thought "kids playing their hearts out" was Navy's theme?
chris | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 9:46 am | #

Whether or not the game was a disaster is open for debate. However, anyone who is not a ND fan saw the game as a blowout and how bad the team speed was. At least that is what I am hearing. So at least in public perception, it was somewhat of a disaster. Personally, I tend to agree with those who say we weren't that far off, but I am an optimist (even though I did not think we would win the game going into it).
ND'90 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 10:05 am | #

Man, this takes me right back to those sickening feelings when we stalled and stalled and stalled. Anonymous made some key points above about the lack of passion all year from Shark, Zibby and to a lesser extent Quinn. Shark was mailing it in for the most part - I personally think the guy was burnt out from playing football last season, jumping straight into baseball all spring and summer, and then immediately jumping back into a football season. Tough to do while also maintaining your fire.
Bigdadda | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:15 am | #

Rat -- I haven't looked through all the historic teams, but you certainly could create all of those players you mentioned and put them all on the same team. That would be fun. I think I have a new project.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:16 am | #

lets face it we sucked!!! big time!
GO,GO,GO | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:23 am | #

based on that f-in preformance be happy Rutgers were`nt on our secdule!!
GO,GO,GO | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:34 am | #

god... reading this is like reading a TSA crash report. sickeningly disturbing, but gripping, and the outcome was probably avoidable.

yes, the whole thing is an exercise in "what ifs," but like a crash report, hopefully we can use the analysis to avoid future mishaps
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:40 am | #

So Paul, it sounds like you'd be happy with the kids, "playing their hearts out" and going 7-5 or 6-6. Gimme a freakin' break. The only thing that matters to CW and everyone else who is a true fan of ND football is NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!! Period. The fact that the kids will get an education, be of good character, etc. are givens at ND. In terms of football, the only thing that matters is WINNING!!

If you're such a fan of kids "playing their hearts out" I agree with Chris; root for that other team with the gold helmets- Navy.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:56 am | #

It would take a lot to keep me away from Notre Dame if I was a recruit. Religion probably isn't much of an issue for a lot of guys, but for me as a Catholic that would be number one. Secondly, you get an education from one of the most prestigious institutions of higher learning in the world. Next, you can play for a guy who went to the school, loves the school and is one of the top coaches at any level. Finally, throw in the fact that if you are a great talent you will start next year. Think of everyone we're losing (and I'd ask you guys who you think might be back for a possible 5th season)...

LT - Harris
LG - Santucci
C - Sullivan (5th)
C - Chervanick (5th)
RG - Morton
RG- Mattes
TE- Carlson (5th)
TE- Freeman
WR- McKnight
WR- Samardjiza
WR- Anastacio (5th)
FB- McConnell (5th)

DE- Talley (left team)
DE- Abiamiri
DE- Froeme
DT- Landri
DT - Laws (5th)
DT - Leitko
LB - T. Thomas (5th)
LB - Brockington (5th)
LB - M. Thomas (5th)
CB- Wooden (5th)
CB - Richardson
FS - Ndukwe
SS- Zbikowski (5th)

P- Price (5th)
PK- Gioia (5th)
PK - Renkes (5th)

Coach always says "the best players will play". If I'm a recruit knowing that a) a ton of guys are gone next year b) the senior class will consist of eight men (Darius Walker, Darrin Bragg, Justin Brown, Mo Crum, Leo Ferrine, Terrail Lambert, Anthony Vernaglia and J.J. Jansen... that's it) C) next year's juniors aren't exactly setting the world on fire... I'm Notre Dame-bound. So come on you four and five-star hot shots. Northern Indiana is the place to be!
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:57 am | #

What will Weis do differently to prepare for the bowl game? I think whatever he's done for the OSU game last year and the USC game this year isn't working...I agree that the team seems unprepared, i.e., flat, at the outset.
Brian | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:58 am | #

Great comments from everyone about the lack of passion. It's been talked about on BGS before and I wonder how much ability CW has to get kids emotionally fired up for big games. There's no doubt, he's a master tactician and great recruiter, but can he motivate his players to do more than they think they can? The 'SC game last year gave evidence for, but tOSU, UM, and 'SC this year are evidence against.

It will interesting to see how this plays out. The NFL is certainly different where there are relatively few big games during the regular season. A loss their is not the crusher to winning the Super Bowl like a regular-season loss is to winning a NC in college.

I hate Poodle with a passion, but I have to say the guy certainly appears to be able to get his guys fired up.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:00 pm | #

By the way, congratulations to Brady Quinn for breaking his own school record for touchdown passes in a season and Jeff Samardzija for being a finalist for the Biletnikoff Award for the second consecutive season. Way to go, guys!
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:01 pm | #

"there" not "their"
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:02 pm | #

Brian Q....it looked to me (from my perch "behind" the temporary bleachers in Section 28) that the SC linebackers were effectively dropping deep into coverage because they didn't have to worry about the ND rushing "attack". If you take Walker's fine 35 yard run away from his total...he averaged 1.2 yards per attempt.

And Fighting Benny...you bring up next year's seniors Leo Ferrine and Terrail Lambert. If this is what we're going to have to rely upon for returning cornerbacks...it's going to be another long season of watching opposing quarterbacks going long with impunity. Jeeze...
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:21 pm | #

Weis has said it again and again that he takes a NFL approach to motivating the players, and that is no emotional highs and lows. For everyone who thinks they didn't play with fire, you aren't going to see the rah-rah-rah smoke coming out of their ears thing with Charlie. He flat doesn't believe in it. I think they did play with passion, but they didn't execute and got beat by a deeper, more talented team due to that poor execution. Not because they were flat.

As for the comment above about it was going to take TD's to win the game, not FG's, hence we can't blame Gioia for the offensive problems, that's bull. Top tier teams know they have a better than average chance of putting up 3 points once they get the ball to around the 33. Charlie basically has to get the ball to the 22 or he has ZERO chance to get points. That drastically alters his playcalling ability from around the 40 to the 22 since he knows he'll have to convert a 4th down if the first three plays don't get the job done. The opposing teams know this as well and it makes them a little looser with their playcalling ability on defense. It even can make an impact on their offense, making them more likely if they are leading to go for it if they are in a relatively low percentage FG situation since they know ND is going to go for the TD, not the FG. Were FG's alone going to win the game? Hell no, but the inability of ND to hit one certainly alters the way the game is played.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:36 pm | #

Please- God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit Mary, and all the Saints - I pray that Darrin Walls, Jashaad Gaines, and Sergio Brown can run and cover.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:39 pm | #

JohnWa,

I agree with your comments about Charlie's approach to motivation, and to those who question it, I ask this: Do you think a team that relies on heavily on emotion for motivation could have won either the Mich State or UCLA games?

I'd argue that a more emotional team probably would have been too far in the tank in those games to execute at the end.

Hal
Hal | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:45 pm | #

Why do you hate Poodle with a passion? His expertise isn't getting the kids fired up -there are other coaches for that. What makes him special is his singular ability to relate to the kids and have a more intuitve grasp on the lives of these 18-23 yr. olds. His methods seem to be almost impecible, plus he isn't like those other coaches who whine and make excuses. After beating CAL, he told the BCS to 'F' off essentially. They were headed for the Rose Bowl. Of course he knew they still had a deserving chance for the NC, but he wasn't going to let the bogus system spoil an honor to play in the Rose Bowl once again. He says it as it is and he gives props to the opponents.

I know everyone will harp on the NCAA investigation but we really haven't heard anything really bad that could have happened -only trivial stuff that's not allowed simply because the kids are athletes. And still, The poodle's name is not linked with any of the allegations -nor is the institution's -but players and agents. This is nothing compared to what happens in other colleges and the only reason they flagged USC is because they are in the spotlight so often. I also remember some rumors about Holtz and co. back in da day but those remain to be rumors.

I do want to side with rat on the 1st interception. it wasn't that great of a play. Booty threw it right to 3 ND defenders -I looked at that play over a few times and i still don't know how Booty could actually, rationally, intentionally, mechanically thrown that pass. It's one of those plays Booty makes 1 or 5 times a game.

Someone said that if you take away Jarrett, then it would have been a lot closer. I admit DJ was the MVP of the game, but are you serious? USC is a much better team all around than is Notre Dame. Smith was covered because other recievers were open. If ND would have mauled DJ with 3 guys, Smith and Turner still would have beat them. Remember, this is still a young team with talent to thaw.

Kudos for the Mustburger talk. The guy is the equivalent(almost) as Walton in BB. The superlatives!!! I need a "whoa nelley."
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 12:56 pm | #

I think that there are times the coach needs to pull the emotional rah-rah out of the hat. Do it too much, and it loses it's effectiveness. Too little, and the team does not know how to react. It needs to be there, boiling below the surface, ready to explode at the most appropriate time. At the end of the MSU game when CW went off on the defense, I was ready to jump through the TV to get on the field. I was waiting for it during USC, given the build up CW did during the week (scoreboard, USC hat, band, etc.). Maybe it happened in the locker room before the game, but it sure didn't seem like it at the start. I think that is one aspect that CW needs to adjust as a part of the college game. Or have his coordinators do it (ala English at UM). Just a dumb opinion from a guy stuck in skunkbear country.......
GRNDFan | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:06 pm | #

Rat (I'm not sure I would include the irish any more),

My comments were only in response to your comments specifically regarding losing to USC, the #2 team in the country being a "disaster". I didn't say anything about what matters for the ND program or the true ND fan. Fortunately, the team is 10-2 and 19-5 over the past 2 years so we don't have to worry about not winning as much and we're on the right track there. I also wanted make sure we don't lose sight of how the kids might view the game as they were ones who played it, the rest of us are just spectators. I did mention that the key will be what we do with the information in the next bowl game (and I might agree with you that it could be a "disaster" if we lose depending upon how we play, although I hate the word disaster as it relates to a "game").

As for NC's in today's world of college football, it's not something that's going to happen every year (and if you look back in ND football history you can see that we didn't win one every year and in fact, we would go decades without winning one) so if that is your only criteria for the success of the ND football program I'm afraid that you'll continue to consider the program a failure. I'm not sure that CW and the rest of the ND fans would agree with you.

So at this point let's just agree to disagree as to whether the USC game was disaster and move on to the next game.

Go Irish!!
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:07 pm | #

Don't mix leadership and "rah-rah" together. You don't need to be a cheerleader to be a leader. USC has great talent and thus can afford to be a little over the top, just like Miami a decade ago.

IMHO, if I were a first or second year player on the team, I would look at our top 3 players first as headed to the NFL as a top-ten pick, headed to MLB with a 7 figure signing bonus and a professional boxer, and second as student athletes at ND. You tell me how approachable they are as leaders if I think they have already checked out. I have got to think that has an impact with the way they prepared and played. Just an opinion.
DDomer | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:57 pm | #

I was concerend going into the Michigan game earlier this year (though I still thought we would win) when I read that Weis believed in treating every game the same. His approach: emotional hype only lasts until your first hit. It sounds good when you're playing Army, not when you're preparing for SC.

The problem is that these aren't professional players -- these are young college kids, and like it or not, they need some emotion. That is what makes college ball different from the NFL, the emotion. Weis can game plan every key mathcup, and we will come out flat (or comparatively flat) until Weiss understands that this is what rivalries are all about. He does an excellent job instilling confidence (e.g., UCLA comeback), but we still have to get revved up for the big games.

Michigain players said earlier this year that they had been waiting for the ND game all winter to show that they were back. I thought our team might be waiting for SC all year to get revenge -- no such luck. Our boys played hard, but they started off too tense.

Maybe we need to invite Lou Holtz into the locker room before the game to get us fired up because that's what College Rivalries are all about.
Jeremy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:42 pm | #

If you are still reading comments after 86 of them, let me extend highest compliments to you and BGS. If there was a blog version of the Pulitzer prize, you should be nominated.

Jay > all of ESPN talking heads combined, and it took little more than 5 minutes to digest. great job.
J-PL | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 3:34 pm | #

I agree that Samardzija mentally checked out all year long... but not Quinn. He was the only guy playing Southern Cal like they were, well, Southern Cal. The only reason we even had a chance in that game is because Brady was carrying the whole f'ing team on his back.

No Brady hate... that just aint right. Hate on Carroll all you want though, damn I hate that smarmy son of a bitch.
senior | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 4:52 pm | #

Other guy- I hate Poodle primarily because he's the coach of one of our two biggest rivals. But, his personality annoys me- thus I hate. That said, I do have kudos for what he's done on the field (and agree with Jay's other piece posted today). I think you meant the 2nd interception- the one picked by our DL Laws (the first one by Richardson down the field was a great play by our guy). I also totally agree with you about the "if they didn't have Jarrett comment on of our Irish fans made. Ludicrous. Then you could turn around and say what if we didn't have Quinn? Bottom line- 'SC was better and more talented and won handily.

Now for you Paul- first off to question my fandom because I disagree with you is just plain silly. Second, it's attitudes like yours that allowed ND to hire Faust and then go 8 years with BobTy Davingham. I fully realize we won't always win a NC, but it's been the longest stretch without an NC ever (19 years, which is 2 longer than the 49-66 drought). So yes, my criteria and that of CW and any ND fan with a brain is that winning a NC SOON is the criteria for whether CW's ND career and this program is successful. Are you telling me you wouldn't want to have a run like 'SC is having now?

As far as the use of the word disaster- no, it's not a disaster by any stretch if you're comparing it to Katrina. But by football standards, getting housed by 20 by your big rival is a disaster, PARTICULARLY after getting housed by your other big rival by 26 earlier in the year.

In my mind, this season has a chance to be partially successful- if we win our bowl game. However, a 10-3 record with losses to UM, USC, and a bowl game is a failure by the standards that CW has set and that most (obviously not you) have set as well.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 6:05 pm | #

Rat (again no Irish),

"Now for you Paul-" I've never called out like that before.

I'm honored!

As I'm sure no one is reading this post anymore, I won't go on with a long discussion regarding your response about who's questioning whose loyalty as you have clearly demonstrated what type of fan you are (I'm just glad that you are in a minority). Please tell CW (and BQ, JS and Z) that they're failures the next time you see them.

Go Irish!!
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 10:15 am | #

Senior,

I would agree with the lack of "something" this year. I don't know if it was a little senioritis, having read too many news clippings or just believing that they would win, but it did appear that at times they were just mailing in the results. Although without Jeff S., we don't beat either MSU or UCLA. Hopefully, CW will be able to balance that out in the long run.

Go Irish!
Paul | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 10:22 am | #