Reflection of the coach. Pete's as calm/cool as they come.

From my personal perspective, I remember John Cooper biting his nails and the team choking all of the time. Tressel, on the other hand, has a calming influence on his Buckeyes.
Eleven Warriors | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:16 pm | #

Yeah Pete Carrol does a great job and his style works great for his team but thats his team. Different culture, different dynamic. Its up to our coordinators and captains to keep the players loose, not Charlie. If you really dive down into the success of the USC program you'll see that their coordinators have done a fantastic job. Watch when the defense comes off the field after making some plays how excited and pumped the coordinators are. I don't see that from our guys. Maybe Weis doesn't allow them to do that? That would be a mistake and a key Weis v. Carrol difference.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:22 pm | #

I hope the recruits don't read this. Maybe you should also mention that ND has parietals.

Its pretty clear that USC is running a minor league football program. That circus seems like a lot of fun.
Moose Krause | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:25 pm | #

Jay, where is everyone else? You have 10 guys listed on the rolls here, but you are the only one posting. I NEED MY BGS!
Lowry | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:43 pm | #

Great points.

I wish the celebrities would shove the trendy card up their asses and go looking for a match more up their alley, maybe Ritchie contra Paris?

Some seem to be legit. Willy.. and you can't blame Snoop who grew up down the street. Wilmer Valderrama? FEZ??

Apparently there are more restrictions as I haven't seen celebrities -other than NFL athletes- on the sidelines much this year.
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:53 pm | #

Miami used to look like a real fun place to play. Now not so much. You guys gotta learn to take the bad stuff with the good. If anyone really wants to be more like USC than go root for them.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:53 pm | #

Will Ferrell was pretty funny at the game when they put him up on the jumbotron. He seems legit.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 1:54 pm | #

Random post for the day: Wilmer's name on That 70s show is actually spelled FES (not FEZ). It stands for Foreign Exchange Student, which I find hilarious (I don't know if the show ever gives his real name). I personally hate Wilmer, though.
JJ | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:02 pm | #

Yeah Will does it Burgandy style.

I don't think it's the same as it was with Miami. USC, for one, is an excellent school with actual academic standards. Miami IS a circuis...and the university reflects that. You don't need a high school dipoma o play at Miami. Whereas you saw the clip of how USC stays loose the night before, Miami probably used(uses) a more chill, drug-infested approach...perhaps a bong circle?
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:04 pm | #

I know what it stood for...I guess I just never understood why they pronounced it with a 'Z'??

Anyway, back to your local college football blog programming...
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:06 pm | #

You obviously havent gone out with us on a Saturday night after a game then huh?...
Trevor Laws | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:07 pm | #

Other Guy,

I didn't mean to sound like I was insinuating that USC is anything like Miami, I don't think they are. My point or what I was trying to prove, is that there will always be things that we wish we could do that other schools do. Just like I am sure some fans wish they had the tradition that ND does.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:14 pm | #

Isn't a loose promgram what TY ran and where did that get us. Holtz ran a tight ship and no one complained.

Carroll is an A$# and if the NCAA would do anything about it the program would be on probation (tOSU, included). Bush getting $$$, Leinert and Jarrett sharing high priced condos, Leinert taking ballett classes. That program reaks of everything wrong with college football and the NCAA looks the other way. It is just a matter of time before they catch-up with them.
This years offseason story will be something on Jarrett after he has gone pro.

I would rather be 10-2 with a Law student than a guy who is taking dance just to be in school.

Their guys are in sweats and our guys are in suits. The winning will come just wait for the talent to catch-up.

Envious, what a joke!
irishman51 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:31 pm | #

Yeah ND definately has an envious storied history -not that USC doesn't. But you just get the sense that football has meant more to Notre Dame over the years than it has to other schools.

Hopefully not too many fans wish they could inherit the Hurricaines' tradtions.
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:31 pm | #

Irishman51 (are there 50 others?) -

Carroll must be an ass since his team just whipped you. USC must be illegit because their team just whipped you. Until your football team can actually compete with USC (which will be a while) that's all you will say.

Who the hell cares if Leinart took ballett to stay in school? Is that against the rules? I'd rather have a ballerina and 2 national championships than your law student who can't even win a bowl.
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:38 pm | #

My thoughts...

You cannot help but admire the focus that USC has managed to maintain year in and yearout.

In the real world ,all too many organizations, or countries for that matter ,neglect the success that made them great, resulting in complacency or worse

Examples of some of the financial dealings with Reggie Bush's family or encounters with police outlined in this Blog and in greater detail {most notably some of the UCLA blogs}
elsewhere do raise more serious questions .

Were the powers that be at USC aware of such conduct on an ongoing basis...that would be disturbing.

At this point, it seems that the NCAA is more focused on politically correct mascots rather than legitimite enforcement issues.

Even as a Domer, I would hope that a thorough investigation would absolve the powers that be at USC of any misconduct . I do have my doubts however.....heck I even like Pat Haden!

....And I don't like sour grapes.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:41 pm | #

I wouldn't trade CW and his demeanor for anything. Some have forgotten the off/on field scandals that Petey has managed to be a part of. ND will stay clean, SC will not.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:42 pm | #

Hey guys I apologize. Its my fault, 3 years after I left that guys are still so uptight. If I hadn't recruited those tight guys none of this would of happened in the first place. Blame me me me me me me me.............. I should of developed more depth with loose people and kept the tight guys on the bench and with that I'm sorry.
Tyrone Willingham | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:43 pm | #

The first time (posting as Ty) it was mildly humorous, now its just pathetic. Either contribute something or go be a jackass at a blog of lesser quality. Also ditto what Dana Payne said, no more sour grapes. We lost. Let's move on.
PM | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:46 pm | #

JD, what scandals is Petey ACTUALLY a part of? He's taken responsiilty on his own -without accusations- to defend his players. He's never been directly linked with any misconduct. The kind of things these guys are suppossed to have done are petty in the grand scheme of things anyway. I'm not excusing them -they should be punished. They can take Bush's Heisman away for all I care. But USC as an institution is fine. But keep pointing that finger...like I said, that's all you can do till you can actually compete with USC in football.
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:51 pm | #

hahaha...if you need to hate pete carol (whose last name is a girls name, thanks marco) go to houserockbuilt--he encoded the flash introduction to carroll's own web page and is the music playing when you enter the website.
Tommy O | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 2:54 pm | #

No one said Pete was part of any of the scandals, Other Guy. It's the fact that he's the captain of the ship and what happens on his watch is his fault. And if you would really have a ballerina and 2 NC's than a law student, then maybe you should start rooting for NFL teams instead of college football ones. That being said, there was nothing technically wrong with Leinart saving one elective class to make him eligible for a 5th year (although it would have been classier to graduate and take a graduate course or two his final season). I would even say it was very cool to see a player leave millions of dollars on the table and risk his future to come back and win a national title.

My thoughts are that the Southern Cal players are looser because they have less to lose. They've won all those games in a row to give them confidence. Even if they lose, they don't have to prove anything because their record speaks for itself. Part of it is Poodle and his personality, yes, but part of it is just the confidence factor.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 3:14 pm | #

The other guy,

I don't think anyone here is just being pissy cause we lost. We're pissy because if ND had players beating up students and girlfriends, holding a couple hundred hits of X, multiple rape accusations, a player's family being given an $800k house, and another living free with a teammate in a $5k a month apartment we would be ripped apart and scrutinized ENDLESSLY. Books would be written.

Yet all this happens at USC and other than a few articles no one seems to care too much. Nothing.

I think overall USC is a very respectable program. They always have been traditionally. I don't think that sort of behavior is acceptable anywhere (Tennessee is MUCH worse). Yet the NCAA and national media don't seem to mind much unless you're Miami (and even then the NCAA does nothing).

There should be some standards. I'm not trying to hold everyone to ND's, don't get me wrong (starter got a DUI last year on a bye week, suspended for the season). Yet, as a coach, Carroll is responsible for discipline of those players. Multiple assault, battery, rape, bribe, waving guns, and drug issues seem to have no direct response from their coach.

Now, does Carroll have any direct knowledge of these events/issues? Probably not. Yet I strongly doubt that he failed to notice his star player was living in an $800k house while playing, yet his parents were a janitor and a prison worker. I also strongly doubt that he failed to notice a star WR living with a star QB in some swanky downtown LA highrise that few people can afford, let alone college kids.

Carroll has suspended players for quarters and halves of games after they have beaten other students and been arrested.

I don't have a problem with Carroll defending his players. There is nothing wrong with that. Yet what type of message is he sending to these young people when they can become involved in situations like this with no repraisal?
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 3:18 pm | #

Weis has his own style...he is absolutely the right guy for ND in every facet of the game and off the field.....0-3 then 10-2...did any of you think that was going to happen so quick after Davey and TY? We'll be fine...lay off the guy and don't worry about SC until next year... For now let's win a bowl game.....by the way what would the line be if they played Boise State?
jack barthel | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 3:27 pm | #

"The kind of things these guys are suppossed to have done are petty in the grand scheme of things anyway. "

Not necessarily true, Other Guy. Some of them are petty, such as Leinart's SportsCenter plug violation. However, some of them are not petty at all. Ask the girl that Mark Sanchez (allegedly) raped if that's petty. What about linebackers waving guns in people's faces and making comments about owning the police? That's not petty, that's a potential felony (the gun part of it).

Petty in the grand scheme of things are evens such as Troy Smith taking money from a booster a few years ago, Tommy Zibikowski's TV station plug, etc.

I'm not saying that Pete Carroll is the pig-faced-Satan of college football in the 2000s. However, some of the alleged incidents that have taken place under his watch are very serious, and should not be swept under the carpet. As the head coach, he should ultimately be responsible for the conduct of his players. While a coach can not police the actions of all players all the time, he must be responsible for the overall patterns of behavior. There are enough allegations of wrongdoing that it seems that someone in charge at USC should be more concerned than they've indicated that they are. (I'm obviously not privvy to what goes on behind the scenes, so I'm just talking about what they've made public.)

And this is not sour grapes, so please to use your "until you can handle USC on the field, complaining is all you've got" line. While there is some credence to that in the case of those who may hate Pete Carroll/USC for their success, in my opinion this is really a case of wrong and right, not who is better than whom. Rape and assault are not justifiable, and the fact that USC can beat ND on the football field will never make them justifiable. It is not wrong to question the ethics of a coach whose program seems to be awash with both legal and NCAA rules violations, just because he has a better football team. Wrong is wrong.

That being said, while I do have questions about the methods of Pete Carroll and the discipline of his team, his results have been exemplary. In a few years, he took a downtrodden program and has made it the model of success on the field. He keeps racking up great recruiting classes, winning on the field, and developing players into NFL draft picks. Those results are outstanding, and should be desired by everyone. The fact that we ND fans hope it can/will be done in a way that raises fewer ethical questions than exist around USC should also be emulated, not ridiculed.
Domer '99 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 3:34 pm | #

Hey guys, wanna know something that blows your mind?

Trying reading some of these replies and realize one of them is your brother...and you had no idea. And he actually makes sense.

/Hi Brad. See ya at Xmas
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 3:51 pm | #

I have never cursed on this blog so please give me a pass on this one...Fuck Pete Carroll, I hate the son of a bitch!
Smitty2183 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 3:55 pm | #

Jay,

You know what makes you "loose"? Confidence as a result of winning consistantly.

When we start to turn the ship around, the confidence will come. The Notre Dame way of doing things will mean that it will take 3-5 years for Charlie to get the depth needed to play Weis/Belichek/Parcells football. When it comes it will be fun to watch.
Sean Fitzgerald | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 3:58 pm | #

A ND and N.E. Pats fan here. We've had both coaches here. Wouldn't trade Charlie and his 3 rings for a 1st round pick in the next 5 drafts for Petey boy....
A Vet | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 4:38 pm | #

To get back to Jay's initial, and smaller point, there is a way for a coach to keep the players loose and confident and not have them going out and brawling in the bars. On the field and off the field can be kept separate.

And I agree. I love Weis, and I think he is absolutely the guy for the job, but some part of his No Fun League, obsessive compulsive, 9-3 Is Not Good Enough harsh/focused on the negative attitudes seem to have become a problem. I want the Weis back who talked trash to USC ten months before the game and made a point that we would be fielding a Nasty football team. That seems to have gone missing after our near miss against USC last year. The simple fact is that he is not coaching a bunch of five year pros making $2 million a year to have him b#tch at them constantly. They're kids, and on some level their going to natural react better to the Poodle's more energetic, positive approach.
dynamicinfo | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 4:48 pm | #

Ah, that USC environment. Snoop Dog & OJ!

The culture will catch up with them. Miami thought they were bullet proof in the '90's
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 4:51 pm | #

Jay,

Great posts as usual. Still trying to sleep but find myself reliving the McKnight drops over and over again. Been wonderful. I've lost 20 pounds in four days.

Anyway, is it just me, or is Rick Minter starting to smell like sulfur? Time for him to burn out, I say. I still can't believe how much room Jarrett had all day and how ineffective our blitzing was. Let's face it, next years D is going to be a HUGE experiment with so many young guys. Mise well use the time to break in a new young Defensive genius (There's got to be a ton of them around). If things go bad, I don't know if I can handle cursing Minter again.
BobO | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 4:57 pm | #

Outstanding posts from Brad and Domer '99. Nicely done, gentlemen.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 5:01 pm | #

Well, "Tyrone Willingham" commits the tu quoque fallacy with his/her most recent comment. I don't think anyone here likes the priest abuse stuff. How is that relevant at all the the goodness or badness of the atmosphere at Southern Cal?

Someone should just ban "Tyrone Willingham." He's/she's a shyster and a troll with nothing constructive to offer to our discussion.
Alex | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 5:47 pm | #

Ditto - outstanding posts by Brad and Domer '99.

There is a real difference between ND and USC. Petey's "pep circle" (Jay's term) cannot mask the fact that Petey promises his recruits a fun time and that is pretty much all they get.

The 2006 Pac-10 all-academic football team was just announced and there are 75 honorees. Only one was from USC, back-up LB Clay Mathews with a 3.1 gpa in international relations.

Chauncey Washington was a three year academic failure at USC who, by the grace of Mike Garrett, was somehow still allowed to stay at the school, probably skating by taking Matt Leinert's ballroom dance class.

In the newspaper the Sunday after the game, Dwayne Jarrett complained he wasn't academically qualified for admittance to ND, and used that as motivation during the game.

Not once has Mike Garrett and Pete Carroll bemoaned the latest 2006 NCAA Div. I graduation rate data which showed the USC football team with a stellar 55% graduation rate.

Rey Maluaga should have been a problem for the SC program when last year, unprovoked, he punched a man and later said "I own the police." How did Petey react? He just "took it in-house." Poodle's lax discipline was proven when not only did Maluaga play in the next game at Cal (a 35-10 win), but he played the most minutes he ever had in a game! One of Cal's players summed up the thugs at USC with this quote:

"That's the best defense we've played all year, but by far the cheapest," Cal guard Aaron Merz said. "I got spit on. I make a good block, and the guy spits on me. I saw that too many times today. It's disgusting. I got poked in the eye. They had their hands in our facemasks all day."

So, Jay, don't get too swayed by the "hootin' and hollerin'" over at USC. It just illustrates that with Mike Garrett and Pete Carroll in control, their players get protected from the rigors of being a student-athlete.
Andy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 6:05 pm | #

Yes, Andy, the Poodle keeps disciplinary actions "in the family". Maybe poor Rey had to pick up a few sweaty towels in the lockeroom as punishment for beating the crap out of someone.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 7:59 pm | #

From someone that has put up with Trojan bullshit year-in-year-out in southern California since the early '50s...y'all come across as fine "whine". Carroll has done an unbelievable job considering where they were before he got there. Look at their recruiting. Even this year with 1 starter leaving...he's still stocking "Top 100" players like they'd all be starting next year. And what is ND doing in ? I see a lot of red flags, gentlemen, in the recruitment results. Does anyone else see Charlie/et al dropping down to their "B" list...a la Willingham??
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 8:43 pm | #

I think you guys are also missing another key factor in some of the off-field incidents. It is much harder to manage a really tight boat while coaching at a school right in the thick of Los Angeles where there are so many outside influences, not all of them positive.

Now, I don't excuse any of the off-field incidents, but if he were coaching in the heart of Indiana or Nebraska, it might be easier to watch who the athletes associate with, but in LA it is far more difficult to watch everyone his athletes associate with and make sure the wrong people stay as far away from his program as possible.
Jeff | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 9:50 pm | #

Jay,

Worst post of the year. By far. I guess UNLV, given their surroundings, should be the greatest collegiate b-ball team of the last fifteen years instead of Duke......

Mike
Mike S | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 9:53 pm | #

ugh. let's avoid mentioning Ty every other post and focus on winning this bowl game.
Tommy O | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 9:53 pm | #

Jeff, I think you are also missing another key factor in some of the off-field incidents...the kind of players who do the kind of things that USC is sweeping under the rug are the kind of players who go to a metropolis like Los Angeles seeking out just those vices.

Very lame excuse, my friend. I doubt if John Wooden would agree with your assessment. Or even John McKay, for that matter.
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 10:22 pm | #

WHEN SOME TEAMS LOSE THEY THRASH OUT AT ANY PERCEIVED WEAKNESS..IE JARRETT HAS A PROMISED FREE RIDE RESCINDED BY ND....OR USC IS A WILD CAMPUS W/ TROUBLE MAKING PLAYERS...THE REAL TRUTH IS THAT JUST A FEW TROJANS HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN CHARGED BY POLICE OF ANYTHING IN PAST 5 YRS..NONE HAVE CONVICTIONS--- PETE IS THE FINEST COACH IN DIV1...HE PLAYS "FUN" BALL AND HIS PLAYERS LOVE, RESPECT AND WIN FOR HIM...PERIOD
ROC | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:31 pm | #

So, with graduation rates at schools like USC & U looming around 50-60%, didn't the NCAA formulate some kind of plan to reduce athletic scholarships?

What happened to that effort?

I've got a neighbor who is all puffed up about having graduated from the great USC, and always tends to bring that up and sprinkle such in conversations... Where's her sense of outrage at the graduation rates? Nonexistent!

There may come a day when all schools demand that athletes of all sports be able to read, write, and actually perform at a collegiate level. (Except for a few schools, however, I'm not holding my breath.) Until that time, we need to play our A game each time, every time we take the field.

That means no dropped passes, no missed blocking assignments, no missed FG's or PAT's. In short, we need to play the game that we played when Ara and Lou walked the sidelines.

In contrast to USC's "fun" we need to play with the desire and passion that made ND, well... ND!

When that happens, we'll be back.

Nice posts to all; keep it up!

Tom K
Tom K | Email | Homepage | 11.29.06 - 11:36 pm | #

I've always prided myself as being a Notre Dame because we are the only football powerhouse in the nation with player who are quality men. Good and decent men. Not thugs and criminals. And what's even better is that we win.

I'd also like to know what happened to the effort of lossing scholarships if you recruit retards who can't read but can run a football (Michigan, USC, tOSU, U, Florida State, etc, I am looking at you!) Is anything gonna come from this or is this more BS like "We'll investigate Reggie Bush." What ever happened to THAT?
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 12:16 am | #

You guys are hilarious. The bottom line is that you are only hateing Pete because you suck at football. Get a good team and suddenly all these hate posts go away.

Chauncey Washington wasn't allowed to play his first 3 yrs. BECAUSE of academic reasons.

What are you guys tring to prove? No matter what, it all comes across as sour grapes. And it defeats the purpose. Who do you think you are? You think you're special? You're no Berkeley. They have much higher acadmeic standards than you guys AND they STILL manage to have a better team than you guys: a legit top -10 team(that didn't finish top 10 because of a screwjob in Arizona.) At least they hung with USC till the 4th quarter. You're no BYU. Your players don't come close to them in character -I have friends who have played there -and not only do they have to meet high acadmeic expectations, they have to promise to live by a strict moral code at the same time. You're simply Notre Dame, an institution that has instilled a false sense of eliticism into it's students and fans. I don't hat Notre Dame...but you know why people hate other colleges -it's not because of the team so much -but because the fans are unbearable.

Yes, USC has some problems with football students, just like most other schools. But it's not linked with the instituion but with agents and other distractions in the high life environment that they live. Carroll has taken the resposibilty and has promised to keep a tighter ship. I remember rumors about Lou Holtz and co. years back. He wasn't holding his athletes down with an iron grasp -as you think Weis is.

But this is pointless. You guys are unbelievably self-righteous. Just keep coming on here and ripping on Carroll and co. so you can feel warm and fuzzy until you actually have a legit football team to talk about. Stay close -cause it looks like you will be needing that comfort for quite a while.
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 1:03 am | #

Jeff just submitted an interesting post in the above thread.
the other guy | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 1:57 am | #

First, I have to give a standing ovation to "The Other Guy". That was a classic post my friends and he hit the heart of the matter:"Your Elitism is annoying". Stop the bitching and the poor jabs and show us a victory or two before you start bashing other teams. The excuses grow tiresome by the years. First it was Davie, then Ty and now its the other teams fault for playing superior. Stop it. Enjoy your history and your rich 1940's tradition and wish USC and OSU good luck playing for the National Championship. I wish you guys luck in whatever bowl you guys get selected to--Sugar probably against Florida...
OSU is righteous | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 2:00 am | #

Don't you realize this is why every fanbase hates you. The "holier than thou" attitude! You can't win big games and bowl games for nuts and whine about how other teams are inferior in character.

http://www.bceaglesfootball.com/.../images/ nd1.gif

This sums you up.
Mull | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 2:27 am | #

http://img241.imageshack.us/ my.p...mage=nd1sh2.jpg

2006 season
Mull | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 2:36 am | #

"Stop the bitching and the poor jabs and show us a victory or two before you start bashing other teams"

Eleven Titles. 7 Heismans. No Claretts. nuff said.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 3:14 am | #

When tOSU catches up to us then they can speak. Till then, keep playing "Special Ed All Americans"
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 3:18 am | #

"The Other Guy" has long posted on USC boards as 'AcedIII,' a guy who kicked and screamed foul a few years back when his mighty Trojans got screwed when they were butt-kicked in the vaunted Las Vegas Bowl. He was nearly thrown off their board several times for his predilection for using the 'n' word. In the most notable instance, he attacked Paterno and PSU, and freely used that word as a descriptor for PSU's African-American players. Also, he's very big into judging based upon the amount of "coin" a person has (couldn't tell you who Jesus, Gandhi, Buddha, etc are). Actually, he's a pretty good rep of USC, all things considered. But not one to espouse the virtues of ND's heritage. Coinman, we can talk about anything we want to here when it comes to football. Along the way, ND invented USC football as a diversion to get us out of November weather. Remember that. And remember that I know a lot more about you, and the really seamy stuff gets posted here should any more of your inane trash show up.

As for OSU is righteous - you would liken to the other guy - you have the same values. Your only NC since Woody was (admittedly, I loved it) a 'heist' of the ring from Miami ... something about that just sits well. Getting back to reality, you're light years from being able to compete with us on an even-up basis, so feel honored that you're allowed to post here. A friend here, former OSU fb'er, says that the recruiting pitch is "you come here, all ya gotta do is lift. And that's all I ever did." He was given a degree. And those "Class Act" fans, noted for beating up that pregnant UM fan in 2004. Be proud. Oh, and though neither your nor USC's program will ever match ours, start rooting hard for your b-ball team. When it comes time to play USC in Glendale, be scared, very scared. Review your PSU game, and you'll know what I mean.

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 4:20 am | #

Oh no Mull - every fan base in the country hates us! We should change our ways so we can have as many friends as possible.

By the way - did you really take time to trace the 2006 ND season on the that flow chart that was pretty funny when it first popped up a year or two ago? Wow you are a loser.
eddie | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 9:33 am | #

Somehow these comments went way off track.

My only point with the post was a recognition that Petey keeps his team pretty loose, even when they're playing an elimination game for a title shot, and I wonder if the core seriousness of Charlie's program means that we get too tight for the big games.

But by all means, turn this into a referendum on Notre Dame elitism. Be my guest.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 10:47 am | #

Regrading the quote "Their guys are in sweats and our guys are in suits. The winning will come just wait for the talent to catch-up.

Envious, what a joke!"

Is your cheeseburger coach dressed in sweats that look like they are filled with well cheeseburgers???

Before you go spewing at the mouth, look at your own leader
TrojanHorse98 | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 11:01 am | #

TrojanHorse, you're welcome to post here, but you're not helping things.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 11:26 am | #

FWIW, I think there's some merit to the notion of keeping the team loose. Coach Weis might not be the guy to do it, but you can't count on a bunch of college kids to remain motivated entirely by grim professionalism. Frankly, it doesn't work well anywhere.
DC Trojan | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 12:08 pm | #

DC Trojan,

One of the recurring themes that has been discussed here (at least by me) is that Charlie is only in his second year as a head coach. Coordinators are responsible for x's and o's, matchups, things of that sort. I'm not dissing Charlie here (I worship him), but it's important to remember that being a head coach (especially for college kids instead of pros) requires a different skill set. Motivational techniques and the like are important, and its something that Carroll has become excellent at. Yet if you remember, Carroll wasn't exactly brilliant the first few years he was a head coach.

I think that there is definitely a learning curve involved in becoming a head coach from a coordinator. I don't think that Charlie is bad at this (note the team's play last year for the SoCal game), but I do think that over time it is a skill that he will cultivate and master. He has so far whenever he has gained new responsibilities as far as coaching is concerned. I think that Carroll found great success at this due to his natural personality.

Charlie does not have that type of personality, but neither do Belichek and Parcells. They found success by bringing in the type of players who would respond to their personality, and let it trickle down throughout the organization. It took time for Belichek and Parcells to do this wherever they have gone. Parcells currently has only 2 players (I think, might be off a number or two) on his Cowboys team that were there when he arrived. Tony Romo? Seriously, where the hell did he come from?

Neither of those coaches have ever fielded a team that would be quite as hip as SoCal. SoCal's energetic approach reminds me more of something you might see at the Baltimore Ravens, whereas Belichek and Parcells have consistently fielded "blue-collar" teams full of guys who are quiet and do their job. I think when Weis gets guys like this at ND who will fit his personality he can have just as much success without Pep circles and dances and whatnot (not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with that).

It will be interesting to see. Thoughts?
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 12:27 pm | #

Sorry for the long (and double) post.

I just wanted to point out that Grim Professionalism can be quite successful. And not just at the professional level.

Prime examples:

Woody Hayes, Bobby Knight, Bear Bryant, JoePa, Jim Tressell (hate him, but had to put him on here I think), Tommy Tuberville (?)
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 12:34 pm | #

DCTrojan, well said. That's what I was trying to get at.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 12:34 pm | #

A comment on "elitist ND fans".

Those of us who are affiliated with ND are proud of it. WE ARE PRO NOTRE DAME for what she represents. We don't obsess about other schools.


All of us at one time or another have received UNSOLICITED commentary from society at large, regarding our ties to ND. They may be good or bad comments.

One fine fall evening my wife and I were strolling when a couple from Michigan asked for directions.

It turned out that he was a Michigan grad. My wife mentioned that I was a Domer.

Immediately invective came from "Mr Yost" regarding our University.

I merely pointed out to him that his attitude was like the anti American polemics one hears from abroad.

In both cases they represent a mixture of jealousy and hostilty for what we stand for.

That shut him up. A wonderful moment.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 2:22 pm | #

-------------> "Discount the loss because the opposition are thugs."

-------------> "Cry Like Babies."

quod erat demonstrandum
Wilson | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 2:44 pm | #

Waddaya mean ND isn't "loose". Name one other major university where a past Heisman trophy winner has dropped his pants in front of 25,000 onlookers. Can you see Mike Garrett doing same? (Actually...I can't see Paul Hornung doing same!)
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 2:46 pm | #

See...Lmao, I love how domers refer to total national championships and winning percentage, all of which by the way, accumulated during WWII. Nice try but that don't count. The question begs:"What have you done lately?"....since 1980 maybe.
OSU is righteous | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 4:07 pm | #

OSU is righteous,

Wow. I had no idea we won 11 National Championships and 7 Heismans during WWII. All of them? I'll be damned, how long did that war last?

What have we done since 1980? Well, we've won one national championship, and been in the running for two more. How many National Titles did you guys win during that period?

Please note that ND (and we all know this) hit a bad lull after Holtz left. Please do not act as if this doesn't happen to any other school. I seem to remember even tOSU hitting quite a lull in the 80s, and hitting another short one just a few years ago. Didn't you guys lose two Bowls in a row to a Holtz led South Carolina team that had won like 2 games the previous two years?

I'm not trying to be a dick, or even rude. Just trying to point out the problem in your "What have you done for me lately" since 1980 bit. Didn't you guys have your greatest success in the decade or two PRIOR to 1980? Also, it isn't like tOSU has been a Top 10 team since 1980. While Cooper's teams had decent W-L records, they didn't win the Big Ten a whole lot cause they couldn't beat Michigan.

A programs history is something to be proud of. It's what makes college football great.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 4:20 pm | #

Brad - how dare you argue with facts. That's just not fair.
eddie | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 4:49 pm | #

I enjoy the rivalry between USC and ND. I like Charlie and I like Pete. I think the behavior from USC football players does play a factor to the environment they live in. I grew up in Southern California and go to school close to ND so I know both worlds.
Anyway, I agree that football players should be regulated better and it falls upon the head coach. I just think if USC went 2-9 this year nobody, including Irish fans, would even care about USC academics and how USC football players act off the field.
Regarding the comment on Leinhart taking dance lessons to stay an extra year. Not legit? He should have taken something more extreme, or picked up another major right? I can't believe people even care about that.
Peace
Ken | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 7:30 pm | #

OSU is righteous:


During the World War II eras of Lyndon Johnson {1966} and Richard Nixon {1973} ,Ara Parseghian a disciple of WOODY HAYES won 2 National Championships,at Notre Dame.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 7:34 pm | #

The n’er-do-wells like OSUisRighteous are famously inclined to manipulate chronologies and statistics to suit their water-downed arguments. Anyone can put lipstick on a pig but sometimes you have to add the rouge and mascara before anyone will dance with her. Where does the timeline start and stop? Between 11/19 and 12/3, USC could run its record to 3-0, while OSU will be 0-0. I guess USC is that much better than OSU, eh?

By my math, the Notre Dame and OSU have been pretty even since 1980.

National Championships:
Ohio State - 1
Notre Dame - 1

Heisman Trophy Winners:
Ohio State - 1
Notre Dame - 1

AP Top 10 Finishes:
Ohio State - 8
Notre Dame – 7

All of those data have the potential to change before this season is over, and OSU does enjoy a significantly higher winning percentage since 1980 (.750) over ND (.673). Yet ask any true Buckeye fan what is the barometer of success in a given season. The answer? Beat Michigan. Since 1980, OSU is only 11-15-1 against their bitter rival. In that same span, against its two main rivals, ND has had much better success (vs USC 15-11-1, vs Michigan 11-9-1).

Slice and dice it any way you want, but those are the facts, jack,
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 11.30.06 - 8:47 pm | #

For the record, this is called a "jock rally." The entire band is also in heritage hall, two members of the team (one coach and one player) give speeches, the band plays at least 3 songs (guaranteed to include Tusk and All right now as well as our fight songs) and all in all, we just get ourselves pumped up. These occur before every home game on Friday at 5:00 in heritage hall.

As a band member, its pretty sweety high-fiving players and coaches.
USCLink | Email | Homepage | 12.01.06 - 12:35 am | #