Ok, seriously, where the hell did you find that Master Rick Minter website? WTF?
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.25.07 - 10:48 pm | #

Seriously. How is it possible to bring in such a weak defensive class this year? We just lost Trattou. This is unbelievable. There is NO ONE to play defense and we STILL can't get guys to commit to ND. I'm fuming, if that isn't already obvious.
jaisn | Email | Homepage | 01.25.07 - 11:25 pm | #

EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!


Seriously, though, if the kid doesn't want to play at ND, then who needs him. Best of luck to him. We'll be fine on defense. We have a bunch of athletic kids coming in who are going to be impact players in a year or two. We have a new DC who is gonna get this D playing like gangbusters, and to me, everything is lookin' up.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.25.07 - 11:48 pm | #

I would still have liked to see some more defensive recruits swung our way.... 2008 needs to have about 15 defensive recruits
D | Email | Homepage | 01.25.07 - 11:57 pm | #

Master Rick Minter will devour your soul.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 12:20 am | #

ND 2007 = Colts 2003

You won't see a championship until we get a defense, but Brown will get us moving in the right direction, and we'll have enough offensive firepower to make the games really interesting to watch. anyone up for a 45 to 48 loss? Master Minter, care to recommend any Brazilians?
indy | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 12:24 am | #

LOOOUUUUDDDDD NOOOOIIISSSEESS
Jason | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 8:19 am | #

“I had Coach Meyer, Coach Mattison, and Coach Addazio at my house,” Trattou said. “When I told them I was going to be a Gator they all jumped up and we started hugging, it was a special time.”..."

Isn't that special. From playing time freshman year to five deep. Welcome to the bench JT. See you, may be in three years.
Yago | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 8:49 am | #

It's interesting to look at what Florida has done (and is doing) and to compare it to what ND has done (and is doing). With Trattou jumping ship to the Gators they now have in this class one 5 star DTs, two 5 star DEs, two 4 star DEs and one 3 star DE. Which means they are in pretty damn good position on the defensive line. Yet their class from 2005 did not have one DT or DE, although in the years before and after they had some decent commits though nothing like this year.

I'm sure this wouldn't be news to the folks down in Florida which is probably why their incoming class is so good on the D line; they made that a priority and did what they had to to get the kids they needed at those positions. I hope and expect CW and company to do likewise next year, especially given with the 2007 class we have signe donly 7 DE/DT in the last 3 years. With the past two classes we are stacked on the offensive side of the ball and now have to concentrate on the other side. Hopefully it will happen.
Eddie | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 9:16 am | #

I love lamp.
James | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 9:26 am | #

Have fun in Gainsville Justin. You'll have plenty of time to sit and enjoy the view of the Swamp from the sidelines.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 9:33 am | #

I agree with some of the posts that we have not focused sufficiently on defensive recruiting. This year we have only five, that's right, FIVE incoming defensive players. This, to a team whose defense has been torched in the past 2 years.

Something's wrong with the message to these kids.
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 9:52 am | #

This kid (Trattou) may never even see the field...and I would just love that.
Smitty2183 | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 9:55 am | #

Notre Dame and defensive recruits in America have such a sad time together.
jeremy52 | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:07 am | #

What does that say about us if we think he would have a been a 3 or maybe even 4 yr starter @ ND but don't see him playing at all at UF. Sounds like admitting that UF will ocntinue to be better than Notre Dame through 2011. Enough of this crap, so we lost out on him. Better now than in the summer or during the school year. Maybe the kids doesn't fit into the scheme anymore, let's just hope we Smith and/or Wright.
PM | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:08 am | #

This brings up a question for me. At what point do you stop recruiting a kid? For Urban Meyer, apparently there is no line at which you give up. A kid has gone on national TV and given his verbal commitment to a school, and yet he continues to knock on their door. I know he's not the only coach, either. (Who knows, maybe Charlie and his gang still haven't given up on guys like Martez Wilson.)

Makes me wonder what the point of even giving a verbal is when you're still going to be receiving letters, phone calls, and text messages from Urban.

Are there coaches out there who play by the unwritten rules? Or does every coach come from the Urban Meyer School of Ethics?
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:08 am | #

Well, obviously Urban has let everyone know where he stands on recruiting. I hope everyone feels free to poach his verbal recruits.
Hoss | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:11 am | #

No need for bitterness towards the 17 year-olds. We've been on the happy end of more than a few commitment-shifts in the last year or two. It comes with the territory.

No question we need D players. And the fact that we have fallen short of a great defensive class this year validates Charlie's actions in hiring a new coordinator, I think. (Minter's a stand-up guy, and a good defensive coach. But one of the downsides to all the detailed information and opinion about college teams is that a coach's reputation can go sour very quickly. The ensuing damage to recruiting can be swift and unforgiving, and I think we're in the midst of such a situation now. D players are deciding they don't like Minter's "scheme," and Brown isn't a familiar-enough guy to sway them on short notice.)

Anyways, let's have some patience. We all know next year's going to be tough, but I'm guessing we see something akin to the Irish D in 1986 and 1987: a handful of key position switches combined with a distinct air of racheted-up intensity.

I REALLY like the hire of Corwin Brown.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:11 am | #

We have to remember that these are 17-18 year old kids. Yes, it's a tough blow to lose Trattou, but I don't wish bad things upon him. Perhaps he shouldn't have committed to ND when he wasn't sure to begin with, but these are young kids who have a lot to learn. I would rather him make the choice to switch now instead of coming to ND for a year and transfering. At least right now we can use the scholarship on someone else. I wish we had Trattou. He played very well in the AA game and the whole time I kept looking at my buddies saying "He's coming to ND". So yeah, this kinda hurts, but personal attacks on a 18 year old is uneccessary.
ND101 | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:13 am | #

I agree. Urban has now taken a verbal from USC and ND. His feet are on an ethical toothpick. Look for other schools to aggressively pursue future UF commits in the future so the UF staff will have to spend time defending their turf and not poaching.

Also, I think Charlie figured he could recruit both O and D based on his rep but now realizes that he needs a DC who can recruit as well.

BTW- The last kid UF got from ND (David Nelson), because Charlie would not suck up to him and his Dad, is hovering somewhere around #6 on the WR depth chart.
Deputy Dog | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:18 am | #

Hal - Very good post.

I think once we show some progress on the defensive side of the ball, we will get more interest from the elite defensive players. It is kind of the chicken or the egg question. Florida had a very good defense, but once they destroyed tOSU, everyone jumped on their bandwagon. If we can get Brown to develop an exciting defense, I think that will help. He needs to "coach up" the players that we do have.
ND'90 | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:26 am | #

PM, I don't think it says anything about ND that JT would be playing at ND and riding the bench at UF other than the fact that the Irish are thin on the DL. Even if he didn't win a starting spot at ND as a frosh, he would likely be one injury away from playing and would most certainly be used to spell the starters. I don't think it's unrealistic to say that, given the depth and experience that UF has on the DL, he won't see the field nearly as early or as often as he would at ND.

As for Urbie, well, karma's a bitch. It's just a matter of time until his tab comes due and some recruit he was counting on to fill a hole in his depth chart decommits on him. Then again, by the time that happens for him at UF, he'll have moved on to the next job. He has yet to prove that he can maintain a program over the long haul.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:32 am | #

I think anyone who believes that our staff has not emphasized D recruiting is way off base. Some of our top targets were Trattou, Austin, Lorenzo Edwards, and Chris Donald. We just didn't get them.

I don't think the emphasis was on offense this year, it's just that we got better O recruits because top players want to play in Charlie's offense.

To be honest, if I was a defensive player I wouldn't want to be on national TV getting torched week in and week out either. The only main attraction is playing time and exposure at this point in time. I think with Corwin Brown we will see drastic improvement in the defense, and next year we will see a lot more top D recruits coming to South Bend. Mark this down, take a picture, maybe some video. It'll happen.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:38 am | #

Dont forget Brantley, the QB that Meyer took from Texas after he verbally commited to the 'Horns...One more for Urban's resume. God I hate that man.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:47 am | #

Describing Trattou...


"It's a unique situation," Lemming said, "and one that I'm sure Charlie Weis, with his pride, is going to remember for a long, long time."

http://www.southbendtribune.com/...340/-1/ NDSPORTS

That is an excellent point, and I can only hope Charlie gets to match up against UF in a year or two once he gets his boys in.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:51 am | #

Notre Dame's new strategy: play offense for sixty minutes.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:55 am | #

Not jumping on the kid. Just saying they have 6 DE's on the UF roster. We got almost none. Trat would start in 2007 or 2008 at the lastest at ND on national TV every week. He's gonna share a lot of time at UF.

These kids - yes they are kids, still need to consider a much larger picture. They don't. Greg Olson made the right decision to transfer out of TW's ND. The program wasn't going anywhere. He got screwed when CW came on. He'll still do fine.

What's the name of the QB from USC that almost never saw a snap but's sitting on an NFL roster cause he was deep behind other NFL talent.

I don't plan to dump on JT. He changed his mind. But. Don't make a commitment in the first place.

Frankly, the recruiting frenzy is way out of control. The money spent. The faunning at the feet of 17 year olds. Yes, the stretch limos. That's all ridiculous. Time to make a simple change. Let them sign early letters like NCAA basketball. Let's stop the transfer crap. Let's stop the "5th year move to another school cause I didn't play enough" crap. And let's stop verbals. They just put these kids in bad positions. "Son, when you make up your mind, sing a letter. Until then, shop around."
Yago | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:55 am | #

Very nice Jeremy52.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:57 am | #

Do you think there is any chance that Trattou committed to ND because of Minter and switched to Florida after we let him go? I know there aren't too many Minter fans on this board, but he did help bring in Trattou, so it is possible.

I also doubt that, because Urban was the recipient of 2 already committed players that other programs will start targeting his recruits. If a coach is ethical about his recruiting practices, he is not going to change his ethics just for Florida players.

Finally, I have a certain level of hatred for Urban Myer because he 1) chose Florida over ND; 2) my inlaws all attended UF; 3) They won the NC; 4) he is putting together another top recruiting class; 5) it looks like he is building another USC-type program; 6) my inlaws all went to UF; 7) my inlaws all went to UF....

That being said, there is a high liklyhood that the two 18-year-old kids changed their mind without continual recruiting from Urban. As much as I would love one more reason to hate Urban, he may be a very ethical person.
rbingham'97 | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:57 am | #

Eddie;
You are spot on, but I'd just point out that it would have been obvious to the staff last year that we needed a big defensive push in recruiting, and Minter's firing is probably a reflection of our failures in that regard as much as our on the field performance. Unfortunately, although our new DC will bring pro cred to the table, having to wait on the pro calendar to land him meant he didn't get any real time on the trail for us.

Now expectations for our defense couldn't be much lower, yet we all know there is talent. Hopefully Corwin can show his sauce on the field, and our boys will surprise people enough to keep the halo over their new DC's head for one full recruiting cycle. Next year's class will be do or die on D, but hey, if I'm a top WR looking at signing for the class of 08, I wouldn't worry about being 5th on the depth chart. I expect we'll be throwing the ball quite a bit in 2 years.

Lastly, I'd add that talent isn't everything. A great leader can sometimes get extraordinary things out of ordinary people - in football just as in life. If Corwin Brown is that type of leader, and we have every reason to hope that he is, then he'll have opportunities to shock his opponents and rebuild expectations that Notre Dame is a place for top talent to come to learn their craft. Never bet against extraordinary people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Bat..._of_Thermopylae
indy | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:59 am | #

I've seen jimmy clausen around alot. He usually looks confused, like he has NO IDEA what is going on around him. He was hanging around the student center with Carlson. It was beautiful
irishlass | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 11:03 am | #

It's not like the SEC is a haven of ethical-minded coaches. Look at $aban. He's a prime example. Alabama throws money at him and he immediately begins ripping LSU, Les Miles, and anyone else who has a commit he likes and wants. I'm sure Urban's the same way, especially given that he and two of his coaches were sitting in Trattau's living room when he re-committed.
Matt J. | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 11:17 am | #

The SEC, "Seriously, Everybody Cheats"!
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 11:28 am | #

Let's put to rest any illusions that Urbie wasn't making a push to get Trattou even after his verbal to ND:

"Florida called me the day after they won the national championship and it really opened my eyes. Once Notre Dame changed defenses, I had to think about other options. Notre Dame is a great place, but it's just not for me."

It sounds like Minter leaving did have something to do with it. Albeit after Meyer was on the phone with Trattou whispering sweet nothings into his ear.

Here's the link:

http://www.northjersey.com/ page....2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 11:43 am | #

If we have to lose a Trattou as the price for replacing Minter, than so be it. That's a price I'll pay without even thinking about it.
Mike S | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 12:07 pm | #

Many teams have fielded top-notch defenses without many 4-star recruits, let alone the 5-star variety. Think North, to your neighbors in Wisconsin. They consistently play solid, sometimes suffocating, defense, and rarely land even 4-star D recruits. Coaching is more important than recruiting rankings. If Trattou wants to go elsewhere, let him, and wish him luck.
david | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 12:26 pm | #

I agree that talent isn't everything. Look at the Patriots. In the Colts game, they were very thin in defense, had converted players all over the place. And kept up until the end.

Next year I hope to hear this "wow, ND's defense is much better than last year and they had bad defense recruiting year(s). CB is doing this with the same guys Minter had." (Remember our Offensive from pre-Weis to weis in one year)

I can hope, can't I?

I just hope that's what I hear.
Peck | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 12:29 pm | #

We may not have hired the right Rick Minter, but we certainly got the right Corwin Brown:
http:// www.springfieldcolorado.c...boutcorwin.html
GLT | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 12:43 pm | #

Wisconsin didn't really play anybody this year and the two teams they played against that were good, ran and passed all over them. (UM and Ark). The NE comparison is good but you have to remember that you only have what- 20 hours with these guys a week. In the pros you can convert a player and have alot more time to teach him the new position.
PM | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 12:47 pm | #

Anyone who thinks recruiting will ever stop after a verbal is insane. It's a waste of time and effort to pretend it will ever be this way. This is particularly true when top players are involved.

Recruiting's an ugly, inpolite, discourteous business. I think ND avoids some of its worst aspects, such as outright lying and character assassinations. But let's not shit ourselves here. Meyer's no worse or better than ND coaches for going after Trattou. The guy was conflicted in much the same way that Gray or Little was. That makes him fair game.

I'm not saying there's no difference between ND and Fla. I'm just saying that it makes us sound like a bunch of sour grapes-eating jerks to be whining about Meyer, when the Irish have done the same thing twice this year.

Bottom line: We'll get guys like Trattou when the D feels like a hungry, angry beast. I think we're on our way to that status with Brown.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 12:50 pm | #

It'd be cool if we could steal one of tFL's many DEs. But moving on . . .

How do we sit with Jason Peters? Has he verballed anywhere?
Jagger | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:01 pm | #

PM,

Wisconsin's D played a lot better against Michigan than ND's did. And against Purdue, for another common opponent. Even ND's best defensive performance, against PSU, wasn't nearly as good as Wisconsin's against PSU. And only USC held Arkansas to as few points as Wisconsin. In any case, it's only an example. There are several teams that play excellent defense without really highly rated recruits.
david | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:02 pm | #

"Notre Dame has the best tradition in college football, and I just want to be part of it," Trattou told The Record of Hackensack, N.J. "It's a great atmosphere. I got along with everyone really well, the players and the coaches. I really believe I'm in a great spot, the right spot for me to succeed."

Justin Trattou back in June 2006.

"Florida called me the day after they won the national championship and it really opened my eyes. Once Notre Dame changed defenses, I had to think about other options. Notre Dame is a great place, but it's just not for me."


Interesting how the best tradition in college football gets dismissed when you get called from the National Championship team....

Also interesting, in the article that he makes reference to ND switching to a 3-4 defense. Perhaps this is more certain than we thought?
ND101 | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:10 pm | #

Chuck Norris is afraid of the other Rick Minter, but they're BOTH afraid of Corwin Brown.
I have this on good authority.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:23 pm | #

"Bottom line: We'll get guys like Trattou when the D feels like a hungry, angry beast. I think we're on our way to that status with Brown."

Please, Hal. We HAD Trattou, and it had nothing to do with the D being a hungry, angry beast. He's gone because of one reason: Urban Meyer laughing in the face of any kind of recruiting ethics.

I agree that it's an ugly business, and that ND is likely not always above the ugliness. But you gotta wonder when kids are de-committing left and right from big time programs to come to Florida. EDSBS (a Florida blog) has the number of Urbie poaches at 7.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:30 pm | #

For everyone's sake, I'm done b*tching about the de-commitment.

I just hate Urban and his smirk.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:34 pm | #

NFL Draft Day, 2011.
There will be at least 20 defensive players taken inside the first 3 rounds who no one reading this has yet heard of. Probably 5 to 7 could be admitted to Notre Dame. The odds say that Justin Trattou has, at best, a 30 percent shot of ever working a football field on Sunday.

Who are those kids who, this very moment, are dying to play for Notre Dame, yet aren't on our radar? There are always a few Mike Oriards out there. We all know that the Top-100, Top-150 become, by far, washouts in two to three years, but the off-season "game" of recruiting gets unrealistic, real quick.

Here's hoping that we add a touch more "heart" to our recruiting profile over the next 10 days or so. JT is gone - good luck, kid - let's simply make it a great opportunity for us, as well as a future All-Pro.

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:43 pm | #

I have a feeling CW will be pounding the ball down our opponents' throats behind his big hosses on the O-line and with his stable of diversely talented running backs. Shorten the game, give our thin defense a rest, and score on every long possession.

Of course, Arkansas tried this and it didn't work if they got down early in the game. Fortunately we have Jimmy C and some talented WRs in case we have to make a comeback.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:53 pm | #

Anyone know what the high school prospect list looks like for current high school juniors? Will there be some monster d-linemen and linebackers waiting for us in next year's class so we can make a really focused effort for 2008's class?
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 1:56 pm | #

If Trattou has heard from ND that they are likely to run a 3-4 D, then I am willing to bet that that had more to do with anything with him choosing Florida. DL in a 3-4 isn't a glamorous position, it is a dirty, rough, nasty position for mean, tough bastards who want to man-handle people. They typically don't get a lot of sacks, or tackles, or accolades. DE in a 4-3 has a much better opportunity to rack up stats and get attention. And hey, if that was the reason, I'm fine with it.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:09 pm | #

...but God would I have loved to see that massive bastard lined up on the outside at linebacker.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:11 pm | #

Looks like Smith choose USC. It has not been the best two days for our defensive recruiting.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:37 pm | #

KMF,

All due respect, I disagree. The reason Trattou changed his mind is because he smells a defense in atrophy at ND. It looked different in June; everyone thought we'd be getting better on D this year.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:52 pm | #

Mike S,

Couldn't agree with you more. I'd rather lose JT than still be stuck with Minter.

One slight advantage our D will have next year: it will be like the O of '05. Teams didn't have film to gameplan against Weis. We'll be fortunate for the first 3 or 4 games to have this "element of surprise" (no matter how minimal) with our D and teams not knowing what to expect from CB. However, other teams finally caught up to CW's coaching this year which means we'll need to reel in serious talent (and Defensive numbers) for '08.

God Bless the Indian summer.
TwelveHawks | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:02 pm | #