Nobody coming in this year will make-or-break our team. If that were to be true, we'd be in real big trouble. Because we haven't had a "D" in years, the waiter just took the steak off our table, and we're left with the smell.

Brown seems like the coach (at least he has the opportunity) to make a dramatic impact on half of our team. It's very understandable why JT switched - he's a kid, and UF came at him hard.

We need help on 'd' and things seem dire. Anyone here want to tell me that our "O" looked rosy 24 months ago.

We'll thank the kid for the experience and learning. If he's playing in 3 or 4 years, he'll wish he was on our squad .. getting his finger measured.

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:09 pm | #

That's gonna leave a mark. Besides Nwankwo and Nuss, who else switches sides of the ball?
rem | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:10 pm | #

I'm really not sure this kid would have stayed with ND even if Minter had been left on staff. Meyer has now tried this with 2 other verbals of CW's. The kid is just looking for an excuse by saying it was a change in the "D". Meyer is as unethical as they come. Remember...we still got sam young and armando allen away from his state. remember this...if corwin hadn't of visited robert hughes, he may be wearing orange today.
maxwell | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:24 pm | #

To be clear, I agree with the decision to have Corwin Brown visit Robert Hughes. Recruiting leaves the door open for a lot of 2nd guessing and hindsight revisionism, but I don't think sending Brown to Chicago to visit Hughes was a mistake. ND needs a powerful running back just as much as it needs another defensive end.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:28 pm | #

I wonder if the whole 3-4 comment came from our staff or from some other sources? I am a big NE fan and the key to the 3-4 is a big NT. The Irish have guys who are barely big enough for DT never mind a 2-gap NT. Maybe, our 3-4 will be like what USC runs, where Cushing is a stand-up end.

Also, a 3-4 Outside LB is a lot more valuable in the NFL than a 4-3 end or LB. The 3-4 OLB is asked to be so much more versatile and that versatility earns them bigger paychecks. If anything, he should want to be the next Joey Porter or Shawn Merriman minus the needles.

I am sure that W is not happy about this but he has also probably moved on. I think we have a lot of candidates to move to D starting w/ Luke Schmidt.
Deputy Dog | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:30 pm | #

If he doesn't want to be Irish, to hell with him.
maxwell | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:32 pm | #

let's also be clear about one other thing re: hughes....he had not yet committed to any team when visited by brown.

no lack of ethics there.
yz | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:34 pm | #

if the concern is that brown should have gone to nj with weis, that's different. but there really isn't anything he could have done to help. weis interviewed cb, so i'm sure he could address any concerns trattou had. the most probable outcome would have been losing both guys.
yz | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:36 pm | #

This post is pretty dramatic for a BGS piece. If the guy wants to go to Florida - let him go. The last thing we want is for him to show promise and then transfer, so its all good. Florida's not on our schedule anyway.
mickeysice | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:41 pm | #

sorry for the trifecta....

we're also relying on what rating services are telling us about who wants to play where, and/or is better suited for what position. some of this is what the kids say, but some may be pure conjecture.

let's not assume we haven't recruited anyone who can play d-line or linebacker just b/c rivals or scouts says so.
yz | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:41 pm | #

It's more than a little troubling that not only are we not getting top defensive players... we aren't getting ANY defensive players. Taking offensive guys and playing them on defense is like switching around the deck chairs on the Titanic. C'mon already. How many more years before they finally get some warm bodies on defense? This is absurd.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:42 pm | #

Looks like Malcolm Smith choose USC.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:42 pm | #

The last time we won a national title, two of the stalwarts, Stams and Pritchett, were converted from offense.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:47 pm | #

Different era though, Anonymous. Positions are so much more specialized now than back in '88. I'm not saying that the Irish don't have guys that could switch over and learn, but I'd sure rather have kids that "grew up" playing the position rather than having someone try to learn it on the job against D1 competition.
JohnWA | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 2:57 pm | #

Stams and Pritchett also played on a team that was significantly better than this one. They're going to lose shootouts over the next few years because they'll have an excellent offense and a defense that stops no one.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 3:00 pm | #

If he didn't have his heart set on ND, better he decided against going there after all. And it's a good thing that he makes this change of heart the last week of January rather than the 3rd week of February (or any date thereafter). Still, anyone who opts for one school vs another because of the type of offense/defense they play is presumably focused on showcasing their own individual skills, aka somewhat selfish. But then again, if he wants to showcase knocking down QBs, that would have been nice.

And please cut Urban Meyer a break... since this is only his 2nd full year in the SEC, he's obviously trying to catch up with the rest of the coaches and their "standards"...
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 3:19 pm | #

Pat, come in off the ledge. One kid is not going to make a huge difference. If CBrown is the kind of guy CW wants and needs, then he will be the difference maker, not some unproven kid long on potential and short on experience. CBrown will bring results, which should bring in recruits. Future is still bright.
Jimbo | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 3:20 pm | #

I don't think positions are so specialized that you can't teach some 18-year-old player to play it. Remember that these kids are coming out of high school.

The best recruits are always the most versatile ones. The ones with natural talent. Usually ones who played other sports.

What we need more than anything are new defensive schemes and emphasis.

Jack.

P.S. Where did you hear about Malcolm Smith going to SC? Did he already choose them or is he just visiting? His brother already plays there so I guess it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.

P.P.S. I hope we can at least get Safety Ronald Johnson, but I hear he is leaning towards Michigan.

Major Wright would be good too.
JackBourassa | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 3:25 pm | #

Jimbo, I'm not on the ledge. But I do think it's fair to point out things like the defensive recruiting given how much I harp on Ty for similar results.

Of course one player like Trattou doesn't make the difference. But he's not just one player. He's another name in a list that includes Marvin Austin, Barksdale, Andre Jones, Ben Martin, Martez Wilson, Will Blackwell, Michael Reardon, Jason Peters, Chris Galippo, Chris Donald, and now Malcolm Smith. All are highly recruited players offered scholarships by ND. All chose another school.

That doesn't mean ND is doomed to failure. It just means that success will be that much harder to obtain.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 3:35 pm | #

No denying it, this loss sucks. Also no denying it won't kill the program. Hopefully we decide to take the gloves off and go get the guys that should have been ours - Martin and Wilson specifically. These other programs are not going to have any pity on us. I hope this year CW decides to take a different approach and put a little more pressure on these guys early too - nothing hard core, just let them know you have 3 spots for 5 offers or whatever. Of course, with a situation like this, the only thing that will really help is if we start early signing like BB does. Its freakin' time already.
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 3:51 pm | #

I wonder how much of his decision was based on what he stated his feelings were about the defense strategy as opposed to getting caught up in the 'glamor' of Florida winning the NC.

Nevertheless, it's true that ND's recruiting has been a bit shaky even I'm not sure of the strength of the new classes and I won't feel confident in my feelings until the first game in '07.
wyndycity | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 4:28 pm | #

Someone mentioned that Stams and Pritchett played on a team that was much better than this one. I beg to differ ..the '86 and '87 lead-ins to the 88 team were works in progress. 07 will be a drop-off, but come a year after, we could cause lots of people lots of problems. Again, look at the '04 offense: things picked up soon after. If we can coach (I'm a broken record here) we will be loaded with D-talent real soon.
Good luck to Trattou; I'm forgetting his name as I write this.

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 4:32 pm | #

In related news, look for 08's most likely top LB, Steve Filer to be Irish. There are some big time recruits next year that are favoring the Irish next year. Look for us to have a big recruiting class on the defensive side of the ball next year.
Jason | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 4:40 pm | #

Wes Pritchett never lined up on offense for even one play in practice or a game. He was all defense from the day he arrived. Stams was a pretty good fullback for 2 years before switching to LB when Holtz arrived in '86.

Justin Trattou, while apparently a very good D lineman may never see the field at Florida. He'll be fifth string at best as a Freshman. That means he won't travel. And all the other guys ahead of him are studs who can fly. Urban wanted this kid simply because he is from New Jersey, and Urban's chest is very puffed up right now. He wants to rub CW's face in it, and taking away one of Charlie's vaunted Jersey Guys makes Urban feel tingly and powerful! Trattou won't ever play much at Florida because if he does that means some in-state kid doesn't. And Urban won't dare alienate any High School coach in Florida, nor allow FSU or Miami a chance to make up any ground in recruiting by playing a New Jersey kid on his defensive line. Urban is simply stockpiling talent so nobody else can have them while knowing full well that lots of 4 and 5 star recruits might never rise above scout team. It's been done before, even at ND. Gerry Faust did it but his problem was that his ineptitude kept him from winning with dozens of 5 star recruits on the field, on the bench, in the doghouse... everywhere! Holtz did it too...think Dorsey Levens, Jerome Bettis, Rod Culver, The Brooks Brothers, Ricky Watters, Rocket, Braxston Banks, etc., etc., etc. Urban, a.k.a. The Little Shit with no chin, is flexing his muscles because he can. I hope CW is pissed and that losing Trattou actually sparks a serious re-evaluation about the way ND recruits in the future.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 4:45 pm | #

I am somewhat surprised by the optimism that some of you have after this happening. This is not a situation of just losing a "recruit," one of the 19 that had verbally committed. This was arguably our best recruit (certainly the best defensive) at our most needed position. With the loss of Landri, Frome, Abiamiri, and Talley (who left during the season)...Trattou not only had the opportunity to come in and play early, Notre Dame NEEDED him to come in and play. Why was the defensive coordinator in Chicago recruiting a running back when the most important recruit of the class began having second thoughts and was visiting Florida? Trattou's concern with the defensive scheme was his main issue. Shouldn't the Defensive Coordinator be the one to assure him and explain the issues to him? While I certainly understand that Hughes is an asset to the program, if Weis had to choose between Trattou and Hughes there is no question he would pick the badly needed D-Lineman.
I also disagree with the statement that Urban Meyer should be cut slack. He just won a national championship, he is doing fine. While it is true that he is experiencing a similar situation that we are in regard to a lack of depth in the upcoming senior class, I do not believe it is proper to recruit away a player after he has commited verbally. The fact that we do not play UF during the schedule cannot be an excuse, if Notre Dame wants to be in the hunt for a national title they need to keep players like Trattou, cause guess what...Florida is going to be playing in that game again sooner than later. The hire of Corwin Brown is also something that cannot be looked at as a simple answer. This is a coach who is relatively young, without any experience with designing full defensive schemes and very little experience recruiting. So far the only change in the defense since his arrival is the loss of our best defensive recruit. Just because he is comfortable with Charlie, does not mean he will be a good defensive coordinator. There were certainly other options out there, and I dont doubt that CW explored them. C. Brown would be a fabulous secondary coach, as he has displayed in the NFL. Please do not think I am attempting to bad mouth CW or CB, but what happened here goes further than just losing a recruit. Notre Dame is further away from its return to dominance than people think, and is line for another season of dreadful defense. Better defensive schemes or not, ND just does not have the personal on defense to stop good offenses, let alone great ones. Everyone talks about..."wait till Weis gets his players in." Well he has recruited 15 defensive players since he has been here. That is a disaster. Moving players over from the offense is not the answer. Do you think teams like USC, UF, OSU, LSU, etc. are moving players over from one side of the ball? In the rare case that they do it is only b/c that player is actually better suited to play that position, not b/c there is no one else to play the position. Trattou would have likely been a 4yr starter at a position that is desperately weak for Notre Dame right now. Having said that, it is still obvious that the class that is coming in is excpetional, one of the best in the country, with outstanding players. But the lopsidedness of offense to defense, in light of what the defense looked like last year, is not a good sign. It is for that reason that Trattou should have been a priority and is discouraging to think that we cant keep a player like that.
06grad | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 4:54 pm | #

As Mike S stated in the post below:

I'd rather lose JT than still be stuck with Minter.

Also, one slight advantage our D will have next year: it will be like the O of '05. Teams didn't have film to gameplan against Weis. We'll be fortunate for the first 3 or 4 games to have this "element of surprise" (no matter how minimal) with our D and teams not knowing what to expect from CB. However, other teams finally caught up to CW's coaching this year which means we'll need to reel in serious talent (and Defensive numbers) for '08.

God Bless the Indian summer.
TwelveHawks | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:07 pm | #

Trattou is gone. I say start letting Gallippo and all the other great 5 star So Cal recruits know that the Reggie Bush Mess just might keep them out of a few bowl games during their career. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Until signing day comes and kids actually sign a piece of paper, every player is fair game. Nice guys finish last, and this wouldn't make ND look bad, only prudent. Fight fire with fire.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:12 pm | #

Y'all are just jealous. Ditching ND at the last minute for the fun 'n' sun of Fla. sure worked out great for my career.
Lorenzo Booker | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:19 pm | #

Ok, now that's funny.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:25 pm | #

News of ND's decision to "suspend" Kyle McAlarney came out on January 23rd, and ND loses a football committment on January 26th.

Now I'm not saying this is the only reason he switched (because clearly, its not), but I'd have to say that I'd be surprised if it wasn't noticed by Trattou or mentioned by Urban and company.

If you're a young, talented athlete, and you hear that ND drops the hammer on people, you're going to think about it. I know I would even if I were not an athlete; I've seen the new gestapo like patrols on game-days, and I hate it.

Does one screw-up mean suspension? As much of a pain that is for a non-athlete, that can be downright ruinous for a kid that's looking to make a name in the NCAA and move onto the NFL. Maybe Florida mentioned that it takes a different approach and handles things more in-house. Heck, I think its assumed that you have to be convicted of a felony most places to get dropped.

I dunno. Were I Urban, I would have played that angle.

In my opinion, chalk this recruiting loss up (in part) to Student Affairs.
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:26 pm | #

...And Urban Meyer's to blame.
You give recuriting a bad name.
AS | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:43 pm | #

Oh, and I'd like to add that "Student Affairs to Blame" goes nicely right after "Shot Through the Heart."
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:43 pm | #

In terms of defensive importance, we just lost the Brian Urlacher of this class. Very disappointing and scary, but I agree that it's better than Minter still being around.

"Little shit with no chin"....I like that Wilderness...
Tony "The Ant" Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:51 pm | #

I dont think you can blame student affairs, Urban Meyer, Charlie Weiss, Rick Minter, Santa Claus the Easter Bunny, or the man in the moon. There is one person to blame here and despite the fact that he is 18 doesnt matter. Justin Trattou gave ND his word, HIS word that he would come to ND for the next 4 years. When CW gives his word he keeps his word. Lou's thing was Can I trust you, are you committed and do you care about me?If Trattou really wanted to be Irish, nothing that Urban Meyer, or anyone else said would have swayed his commitment. What I would like to see is have him change his mind and Charlie tell him no, he didnt need him. This kid is the 5th defensive end that Florida got a commitment from. They only need two, and from the looks of what Florida's DE's where like against Ohio State, he is not fitting that mold. He may end up playing inside, then what will he think. I hate that the kid didnt keep his word, CW did. As for Brown going to Chicago, he will probably be recruiting Chicago, so send him after the best back in that area. There may still be some fallout from that, Wilson may change his mind on his own, especially with some conversation from Hughes. A young man that my son played college football with started at fullback his freshman year, switched to LB as a sophomore, lead the nation in tackles as a junior, all divisions, was conference defensive player of the year, All-American, and then played this year in the Hula Bowl and was named defensive MVP for his team and will play SS in the NFL...there are players that can make the switch. We get so upset by losing one recruit, I dont think he could line up at all eleven positions. Go with kids who want to be here.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 5:56 pm | #

Walk around the table - CW is making Florida his 2nd or 3rd favorite recruiting state; Urban had no choice but to go after a guy committed to us (we just did the same to FSU and UI). We got beat on this one, and hopefully we'll learn from it. One thing's becoming obvious: as long as he's coaching college, Meyer is gonna' be a no- holds-barred competitor.

Back to the present: even if we just lost the greatest DE in CFB, he could only play one position. We're getting nailed in the recruiting pitch ("you wanna play for a defense that gives up 500-600 yards to any Top-25 team?"). Can't blame them for that approach, but I'd have bet the house that we'd have a Top-10 defense class coming in, and we won't even show.

The elephant in the living room, our special teams, has been consistently ignored for a coupled years now. Remember that the big story never starts on the front page. There are symptoms all over the place, and it appears that not everyone wants to take a good look at them. [Guaranteed, with this post, Bill H. will be called by some "a Michigan fan", a "troll," et al.] We have a lot of work to do, and hopefully what happened this week will step up the pace of that work.

'07 is going to be an interesting year. I really think that we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 6:05 pm | #

Bill, we did nothing to UI or FSU. Hughes never committed to Illinois, and Little said he was ND all the way but thought his mother wanted him closer to home. Urban Meyer has no scruples and to think how much we wanted him at ND. Truth be known if he continues losing in-state talent and doesnt keep winning he wont be at UF for long.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 6:14 pm | #

Wow, this is suprising. He always wore a ND hat around school and I was really looking foward to him running out of the tunnel.

He is in my gym class, I think I should break his kness since we dont need them anymore.
ME | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 6:16 pm | #

ME

If you are capable of breaking JT's knees, how would you like a scholarship to play football under the golden dome?
Southside | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 6:26 pm | #

As big of a disappointment that losing Trattou is, I am sad that this is even an issue for discussion at this point in the recruiting season. We were so close on other premier ends such as Martin or Wilson, and other linebackers such as Donald, Edwards, or our most recent loss, Malcolm Smith. I think I would feel better if I knew that Notre Dame was perhaps above tactics being demonstrated by Meyer and Florida, hence why we are not pulling these recruits away; but really I think we might be kidding ourselves to say that Weis and the Irish have / would not do the exact same thing. For example, the best defensive recruit we now have was a verbal to South Carolina; and I am glad that Gary Gray chose Notre Dame. What is more, I am looking forward to the day when Notre Dame has the appeal on the Defensive side of the ball to pull more of these recruits away from other programs. However, to say that ND is not attempting to do what Meyer did is false. What would be more insane is if we were content to find out ND stopped calling once a kid gave a verbal elsewhere.

I wish C.W. and the new arrival of R.P. and C.B. the best in this upcoming off-season and I have the utmost faith that ND will start winning more of these battles. I mean c'mon, two years ago we were barely even in play for one or two of the premier recruits and now the Fighting Irish are in play for the best (as should be the case). Its just hard to remember that we are still coming out of the doldrums of former staffs and lack luster seasons. We're coming back though... Go Irish!!!
Jesse | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 6:40 pm | #

06 Grad- Long Post made me dizzy, but the top line was Trattou was arguably the best recruit, and definitely the best Defensive Recruit. Where do you get your info- Uh Jimmy Clausen- Duh! Trattou was only very highly rated by Scout. Look at Rivals, CSTV, and ESPN to see if Trattou is in their Top 100, he is not. (Pat-Take Note) If you look at all the boards you will see that in addition to Clausen, Allen, Greg Little, Kamara & Ragone were all more highly regarded than Trattou. Also on D, Gray was more highly regarded than Trattou, and a lot of the so called experts think that if Golden Tate ends up playing D, that he will be an elite player. (Tate is ranked #11 on the ESPN 150, the single highest rank other than Clausen's given to an ND recruit) Maybe you guys are listening to the idiot Lemming who said today that Trattou was ND's best D recruit, even though he does not rank him in his Top 100, but does rank D players Gray at #54, and Harrison Smith at #89. What a moron, he can't even read his own ratings. I'm not saying Trattou was not a good recruit, but he was not close to being in the league of Griffen, or Martin, or even Carlos Dunlap. Arguably the best recruit ND had? Not hardly, more like the 7th best. Could we have used him, sure, will we miss him, no, because he obviously did not get it, and if you don't know what that means then you should not be reading this post. Sorry I guess this post will be as long as 06Grad because I'm getting dizzy again.
elmarubtc | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 6:46 pm | #

Martez Wilson.

Martez Wilson.

Martez Wilson.
Andy | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 7:09 pm | #

Jesse --

I think Charlie has gone on record that ND does, in fact, stop calling recruits once they have given their verbal eslewhere. Remember how pissed Charlie got last year when
Cumbie accused ND of continuing to recruit him after he gave his verbal to another school? I can't remember if it was Tenn. or Clemson . . . .
Southside | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 7:13 pm | #

Jamie Cumbie, Clemson.
Southside | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 7:15 pm | #

Gray had a change of heart, this had nothing to do with an official visit after he committed. CW did not fly to SC to recruit him harder. I think that Meyer will go down as a scheister, the SEC will catch up to his offense and in the end we will be vidicated. I can remember the Mustain deal last year and what CW said transpired when he wanted to back out of his committment to Arkansas. I predict that Trattou will end up at Rutgers before all is said and done with his college career.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 7:30 pm | #

A couple of recollections; first, I'm pretty sure Todd Lyght and Pat Terrell were both recruited to play offense but wound up with Stams on the other side of the ball. Legend has it that Lou would give his DC the pick of the litter from the offense, QB's excluded. We're loaded with great athletes on offense. We'll move a couple and they'll see the field sooner. It's up to the coaches to teach and the players to bust their asses getting up to speed.
I think JT's situation can be distinguished from Gray's because I believe Gray had withdrawn his 'Cocks committment and re-opened his recruitment when we got back involved.
But JT was willing to buy the snake oil while committed to us, which means his conclusion that ND wasn't for him was the correct one. As her LOYAL sons go marching onward to victory! JT wouldn't have fit in.
Missing Defensive End | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 7:33 pm | #

Doug nailed it. Two unproductive years at UF, sits out '09, and finishes his eligibility at Rutgers in '10 and '11.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 7:59 pm | #

By no means am I questioning Charlie Weis's or Notre Dame's integrity. I'd just love to see a little more of the same "fist in the neck" attitude with our recruiting that Weis wants to have with his team. We're supposed to be a little "nasty," eh?

Either way, I am excited for the rapidly approaching era where Notre Dame can lose a player like Trattou without batting an eyelash. Go ND!!!
Jesse | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 7:59 pm | #

Personally, I think that Urbie and JT can go f**k their dogs!

Stealing recruits is just plain rotten. I hope that JT blows out a knee while playing second-string practice squad and finds that Meyer is nothing more than an egotistical prick with absolutely no class.

Enjoy your National Championship, Mr. Meyer. For in two years, all of Ron Zook's outstanding recurits will be gone and you will be left with nothing but classless Benedict Arnolds.

F**K you Meyer!
And f**k you Trattou - enjoy riding the pine!
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 9:20 pm | #

and right on the heels of the poaching of trattou, meyer loses a 250 lb demon at DE:
http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=73&...2% 2f613325.html

i wonder why? oh right, it's because he has no problem alienating the kids to whom he'd already promised the world.
you stay classy, gainesville.
imposs1ble | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 9:34 pm | #

Looks like this kid Sidell Corey is pretty damn perceptive. He can count the number of dudes at his position, but he probably had bought into Urban's horseshit ramblings about class and integrity blah, blah, blah. Then Urban the Turd gets greedy and this kid bolts. Good for him! I hope he goes to another SEC school and becomes a thorn in Urban's sphincter.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 10:03 pm | #

If he doesn't want to be at ND, I don't want him at ND. Takes a certain kind of person, and he was obviously not that kind of person.
Kevin | Email | Homepage | 01.26.07 - 11:20 pm | #

Doug - it'd be nice if Urban starts losing significant talent down here. Zook started the talent freight train at UF, and it seems that Meyer is pretty strong when it comes to recruiting, too. {"Truth be known if he continues losing in-state talent and doesnt keep winning he wont be at UF for long.") Your above statement, outside of some Ivies, applies to virtually every other football program, too. From my perspective (western Palm Beach County, FL) all I'm hearing is that UF isn't hurting in this year's recruiting efforts. Also, there's a lot of talk that Meyer is turning the team around from the disappointment of the Zook years. In any case, I'm certain that the recruits we're hauling in from this state has some people in Tallahassee, Gainesville, and Coral Gables a bit more than 'somewhat concerned.'

We're winning more than we are losing on the recruiting trail, even though most of the wins are on the "o" side of things. Expect some really interesting things with our defense this fall. In addition to the new DC, we have a coaching staff that was aware of deficiencies on defense for several years, and has elected to recruit great athletes and convert them. They are coming off of a down year (coaching-wise) in '06, and will be working far more efficiently from here out. Winners like challenges, and you have to assume that our coaching staff loves being exactly where they are right now.

Let's ease off on some 18-year old who decided to select 2nd best. Perspective at that age is worlds apart from age 20, and so forth. I have to believe that Demetrius Jones is far more important to our defense this fall than Justin Trattou, for reasons that are overwhelmingly obvious to some, and occluded to many. We are on the way back, and I don't believe that any 18 year-old, ever, has had much true, lasting control on America's greatest sports team. May JT find greatness in Gainesville, make zillions in the NFL, and live happily ever after. My wishes for the alumni and friends of Notre Dame are for much better, more important things.

I still haven't heard any comment about our special teams ... has CW written off STs as an important area of the team?

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 12:06 am | #

More interesting news from ESPN on the Florida DL. In addition to Corley, Urban has another problem.

Torrey Davis is one of the most highly rated recruits in the country. Both Rivals and Scout have him as the #2 DT in the nation, and he is on all of the Top 100 lists with an average rank of #29 in the nation. He is Meyer’s #1 rated recruit overall. Well, he has one little problem, he may not qualify academically, and may have to go the JUCO route.

Here is the headline from the Scouts, Inc. Briefing Room:


“Torrey Davis may not qualify

According to the Gainesville Sun, the Florida verbal commit "is facing an uphill battle to qualify academically and may be headed the junior college route."


It is starting to become abundantly clear why Urban went after a certain ex-ND DE recruit. Good night Urban, hope you don't sleep well.
elmarubtc | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 1:05 am | #

Doug,

Breaking a verbal is not like breaking a written LOI. I liken it to breaking off an engagement. Breaking off an engagement is not like cheating on your wife, getting divorced, etc. It's simply a verbal. Personally, I'd find it hard to break a verbal, but it's a valid option.

Question is: do we start going after other finalists we lost in hopes of getting them over here before Feb. 7?

I agree with the stockpiling story. For Urban, it's addition by subtraction.
PangbornViolence | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 1:16 am | #

considering how the fighting sweatervests fared in their last game, maybe you oughta worry about your own team's strategy.
Matt | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 2:12 am | #

No need to start stalking Urban Meyer... yet.
The man is riding the wave right now. He has a history of success, a NC in only his second season at Florida and is a proven recruiter. We should be able to respect his success and wish the old Irish Assistant the best.
Having said that...
Ten minutes after the other guy knees you in the crotch is about eleven minutes too late for the gloves to come off. Given that Urban Meyer traveled to NJ with two former ND coaches to visit a player who had not yet decommitted from Notre Dame, we should be cutting the tape off our hands by now.
So what do we do? First, any and every Florida recruit, now and in the future, committed or not, is fair game up until LOI. Same goes for Florida's assistant coaches. Second, maybe it is time that Florida and Coach Meyer receive some of the same critical scrutiny that Notre Dame and Coach Weis get. If the light is bright enough, certainly we could reveal a few blemishes. Finally, maybe Coach Weis could use a sitdown with the best recruiter in Notre Dame history, Vinny Cerrato (thought I was going to say Holtz, didn't you? - a sitdown with Coach Holtz wouldn't be a bad idea either). NFL coaches don't have to recruit, so maybe we (meaning Weis) could use some pointers in that area. BTW, what is Vinny up to these days and is he looking for a job?
2lakes | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 4:30 am | #

Wikipedia answered my question:
Vinny Cerrato, General Manager, Washington Redskins. Man, Coach Holtz knew how to pick them. Maybe Coach Holtz could recommend another recruiting coordinator (I mean, "assistant coach in charge of long-snappers"). Does Vinny have a brother?
2lakes | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 4:40 am | #

I believe that I read somewhere that Meyer, during his interview process asked about recruiting. He gave some examples of kids that he would want to recruit at ND and was told that they more than likely would not be accepted. With Davis, he proves that academics do not mean a thing to him. The high academic standards that ND maintains will not allow CW to have much contact with players like that. With the last few posts about Davis and the other de-commit we can see too then why he went after Trattou. It is too bad that Trattou believed his talk. Remember too, that Greg Little is an athlete and I have read that he could play WR, DB or LB. 6-3 214 lbs now, with 4.5 speed, could develop into a 6-3 228 lb OLB with speed. If you look at some of the possibilites, Schmidt, Nuss, Mullen, Little, plus Toryan Smith, Paskorz, Naegle, Williams. DL is as much about attitude as anything else and the DL in a 3-4 if that is even what we are going to play, requires aggressiveness and ability to tie up blockers and keep them off the LBs. We have to play with the hand that we are dealt, I believe that Corwin Brown will be a better closer than Minter, that was one of Minter's weakest points recruiting. I believe CB will close on more big name D sides players next year.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 6:17 am | #

Sigh .. CW says we're going to get a few guys no one expects us to get, but in reality, we lose the ones we thought we locked up.

Turn it around, Brown ... turn it around ..
bhatta | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 6:53 am | #

Ouch...per bhatta's mention I just recalled those comments made to Maisel...not...looking...so...good...now...Sir Chazz.
Justa Tratter | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 8:19 am | #

Craig Finn's take on this:

"Then there was that night that we thought Justin Trattou would sign, but he didn't sign with Weis....

"He said you're pretty good on D, but your word won't save my hide, because you changed your mind....

"Aaah, he was confused and exhausted he was critically acclaimed and respected. He loved the Fighting Irish but he hated all the drawn out winters.

"He liked the warm feeling of the sunshine on his face in Gainesville,
Sometimes it's crystal clear but tonight it's like he's stuck between programs."
everloyal | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 8:53 am | #

bhatta & justa tratta:

Following Charlie's talk with Maisel on December 9th, ND has received verbal commitments from at least Harrison Smith, Golden Tate, Matt Romine, Chris Little and Robert Hughes and has lost Justin Trattou. Still a good haul.
Southside | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 9:02 am | #

Urban Meyer should be aware of the old adage, "What goes around, comes around." It is a breach of ethics to continue to recruit athletes after they have committed, but if that's the way he wants it, that's the way he should have it.

As for the young man in question, I don't wish him any harm or injury, but I hope at some point he learns a little about honor and ethical behavior in his life.

I hope he rides the bench at UF for four years then becomes a check-out clerk at Wal-Mart.
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 9:10 am | #

This is the EIGHTH recruit that Urbie has poached from another school's verbals. So far, he's poaching ND, USC, FSU, Texas. Can't wait until his ego gets the better of him and tells him to steal from the SEC. The good old boys won't take too kindly to that. That jort wearing, sweet talking, lying sack of excretement, will crap his pant when that happens. Karma's a bitch, Urban, and it looks like she's already starting to poke you in the ass with her ugly stick. Gain one school's recruit, lose one of your own in the same day. Or maybe two, since you offered to a guy who can't even make grades at FLORIDA. That's BAD.
MoreCowbell | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 9:52 am | #

JustIn case, guys. I have lived in Florida all my life…


…and I genuinely hope that I am wrong. However, I am convinced that Justin has made a huge mistake. This is the classic case of someone voting his regard, rather than his interest. It’s like the uninformed voters who choose to vote the straight republican line because they think it will prove them to be more patriotic, or the voters who vote straight democratic because they feel it will validate them as being more socially conscious. Unfortunately, it is only long after the lever has been pulled that they look back with regret and wonder, “Did I really do what was in my best interest?”

I’m not saying that Justin doesn’t realize that if he is a great player that he can be great anywhere, but the prospect of being courted by the recent title holders validates how he regards himself. However, is it truly in his best interest?

Justin’s situation reminds me so much of Greg Olsen’s, not in the particulars, but in the feeling. For me it’s like déjà vu all over again. A big, rugged, tough, Jersey kid who ended his high school career on a high note and wants to show he can grapple with anyone. “I’m a bad mother, let me go down and mix it up with the boys from the “U”, or the national champion gators.”

I understand that I may be biased, but every time I watched Greg take the field in that uniform I couldn’t help but shake my head in disbelief. Don’t get me wrong, I love my state, and I like to see the Florida boys do well. But, Greg Olsen was never one of the boys, and he always looked out of place in that helmet, like a misplaced tatt”U” emblazoned on the side of his head. I hope I am wrong, but somehow I think Justin in a gator helmet will look just as odd.

No need to cry for Justin though. Florida is a good school, and he has a chance to do great things there, and if he is great, he will earn his respect. Unfortunately though, this is just about all he will earn. Like Greg Olsen, who was arguably Miami’s best player, he will be appreciated for helping them to win games, but he will not be fully embraced. Oh, I’m sure his coaches and teammates loved and respected him, and he may even have been a team captain, but for the community at large he was always looked upon with suspicion. Of course he will have a second chance to win over the congregation if he has the kind of stellar pro career I feel he will have. Then, when he steps up to the mic and proclaims his affiliation with the “U”, he will suddenly become a favorite native son. I don’t know about other states, but in the state of Florida, if you don’t win a national title, or go on to some notoriety as a pro you’re treated like somewhat of a mercenary and held at arms length if you’re not from here.

Unfortunately, if truth be told, not even a national championship can guarantee full membership in the club. Chris Leak is a prime example of this. Even after winning the SEC title, anyone who lives in Florida knows how begrudgingly Chris Leak was embraced. I’m not saying that everyone hated him, but even after winning the national title the most glowing complement heaped upon him by some Florida fans is, “Well, he’s still not Danny Wuerful.” And even that seems to be said with clinched jaws and teeth grinding. This guy did nothing but win for them in a classy manner, yet at one time it was getting to the point where I was wondering if they were going to change the name of the Urban Meyer show to the, “No, we’re not going to replace Chris Leak this week show!” Needless to say, although the game wasn’t very close, one of the great things to come out of that national championship was to see Chris Leak walk away with that title. That’s something they can’t take away from him. Still and all, even though the gators won the title, one still gets the feeling that most gator fans would have enjoyed it more if Tebow was starting.

With all due respect to those lurkers from other affiliations looking askance--and even to some of the kindred who know, yet shy away from any notion to set us apart for fear of the dreaded cries of elitism--Notre Dame is different. And I, for one, do not apologize for that. Our recruiting base is national. It is our tradition. There is no background noise or cries of hired mercenary hidden below the surface chirping, “Let’s bring him in and see how he pans out.” And if he doesn’t, “Well, he wasn’t a true gator, nole, trojan, wolverine, etc., etc. anyway.” At Notre Dame the spirit is understood no matter where you’re from, “Welcome, you are part of the family.”

I’m not saying that most Florida fans were not happy to see Justin become a part of their football team, but I am saying that we were even more happy to have him become a part of our family—and there is a difference. I’m not saying that we are all saints here, we are far from it, but I do know the essence of Our Lady’s University and the legacy passed down thru father Sorin, Hesburgh, and Joyce. I know people still today praying that Jerome would get his rear end in gear and finish up his degree, and I can even remember when Joey Hiben—a name few outside of Notre Dame would even know—decided to stop playing football to concentrate on academics, I remember the initial disappointment, but it wasn’t long before many were even more concerned about him leaving school altogether. Okay, well, if football’s not for you we can accept that, but just don’t leave the family. (You would think a Jersey guy would understand this—sorry, that one was for me, I had to have some fun and lighten it up a bit at a time like this.) Of course it may be true that Joey has decided to transfer since that time, but still the sentiment holds true. We wished he would stay, and the fact that we would even care once he stopped playing is outside the norm of what happens at most big time programs here.


I’m also not saying that South Carolina fans weren’t just as disappointed in the de-commitment of Gary Gray, but it’s not like Gray rejected the state of South Carolina to attend North Carolina. Maybe it’s just me, or maybe it’s just because I live in and know my state of Florida. I guess it could be different elsewhere, but somehow I think it makes a difference. That is one of the beauties of Notre Dame. When you embrace her, you are not rejecting your home; you are embracing a national following. And as I have stated earlier, I hope I am wrong, because I still think that Justin is a good kid, but I feel he is making a mistake.

Justin, my friend, our son, …

You belong in a Gold helmet.

Go Irish!
Kalc | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 10:12 am | #

What do you call Urban Meyer in four years?? Larry Coker...
Schwap | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 11:55 am | #

CW: "So now that we know you're Irish, JT, wanna mess with Meyer?"

JT: "Sure, coach. What do you need me to do?"

CW: "Take a trip down to Florida this weekend, and ham it up with all those boys. Act like this could be the place for you."

JT: "No sweat."

CW: "Then invite Urban and his cronies to your place, and soak in all their promises. Even bad-mouth ND a bit. Talk about how much North Dining Hall sucks."

JT: "Yeah, ever since they remodeled in '98, South has rocked."

CW: "Anyway, then you're gonna make a press announcement switching your commitment. But just cross your fingers behind your back or something. Because come signing day, we'll really stick it to that Meyer prick by showing your true intentions. What do ya say?"

JT: "Sounds like a nice piece of Gator bait to me, coach."

CW: "Go Irish"

JT: "Go Irish"

/wishful thinking
Catz | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 12:17 pm | #

The latest news on Corley's de-commit to Florida is that it was because of Meyer's continued pursuit of Defensive Ends like that ex-ND DE recruit. Way to go Urban. Corley's father confirmed this in an interview with a local paper, and the speculation is still that Corley will end up in Alabama.

Here is the headline from the Scouts, Inc. Briefing Room:

"Is Corley Jr. next for Alabama?
Sidell Corley Jr. decommitted from Florida on Friday. His father informed the Press-Register that they were concerned the Gators were still recruiting a number of defensive ends.The ESPN 150 prospect is now considering Alabama, LSU, Tennessee, and Oklahoma."
elmarubtc | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 12:20 pm | #

Good for you Sidell Corley Jr. Urban's reputation will preceed him in recruiting. Contrast this with Charlie's recruitment of Mitch Mustain. Mustain -- then arguably the No. 1 quarterback prospect in the country -- decomitted from Arkansas to reconsider ND. Charlie told the kid that ND's scholarship offer was no longer on the table. Why? Because Charlie had promised Zack Frasier and Demetrius Jones that ND would take only 2 QB's in 2006. Karma is knocking in Florida.
Anon | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 12:45 pm | #

Taking a few steps back to earlier comments about converting high school offensive players to college defensive players....Anyone remember 2002? We had a very good defense that year. It carried us to ten wins before caving in, due to the sheer exhaustion brought about by Carlyle Holiday's errant passes....

Anyway, here are a few stars from that stellar defense:

Courtney Watson: converted RB
Vontez Duff: converted RB
Shane Walton: scholarship soccer player
Glenn Earl: converted WR, played flanker his freshman year at ND.

Four exceptional defensive players from the 2002 team - all of whom did not come to ND to play defense. But this should surprise no one, because Bob Davie's calling card was to take top-notch offensive recruits out of high school and put them on defense. This one of the reasons why from 2000-2002, ND had a top 20 defense and a bottom 40 offense. There was an imbalance of talent favoring the defensive side of the ball, brought about by the tactic that we now fear spells doom for our defense.

I smell irony. What do you think?

(oh, and Bill H. - You're right about special teams being the hideous, decrepit elephant in the room. And I only call you a Michigan fan when you do jejune things like emphatically predict ND getting pummelled by Purdue and Air Force.)
Gallaher | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 1:06 pm | #

There's a lot of rose-colored glasses enthusiasm on this board and elsewhere that I'm not feeling. It's always "wait 'til next year" or "let's see what they do". Well, the past two recruiting years were supposed to be "next year" under Coach Weis. The offense should be fine but are any of you happy that we've recruited six players on defense? They don't magically make those numbers up, y'know. You have to develop players and bring them along (preferably more than six at a time).

Saying they'll convert a couple of their offensive linemen doesn't cut it. Okay, maybe in 2010 they'll be mediocre back-ups because they're playing out of position. Hmmm... reminds of something. Oh, yeah. It reminds me of the same thing we've been doing on defense for the last five years. Get your heads of the clouds, people.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 1:10 pm | #

Anon,

Good parallel. CW has class. Myer doesn't. It will catch up to him, particularly now that opposing coaches can point to 8 poaches in just this year alone.
Andy | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 1:11 pm | #

Binny,

A lot of great offensive players will not sign with a team that is perceived to have a terrible offensive coach or has not produced offensive numbers. Why do you think there is any difference on defense. When was the last time ND had a defensive All-American, or a defensive player taken high in the draft. It is all about perception to kids. Minter did nothing to help ND's defensive perception. No closer on the defensive side recruiting, getting kids excited about coming to ND and becoming a part of a great defense that they will help build. We have recruits out there left to sign. I will take a 3-star recruit who wants to be at ND, dont put so damn much on ratings by recruiting services. Zwick at Ohio State was rated a superstar coming out of high school. Leak was the top rated player in his class. How players develop is essential to a team becoming great. Frank Stams went from being a slow fullback to an All-American defensive end. Mediocre athletes become mediocre players and back-ups. TW recruited mediocre players save for a few. It does not matter next year, we dont have a solid enough foundation to let young players develop. We build next year and in 2008 we return a solid nucleus that some outstanding freshman can help make even greater. We can also try to convince Trattou that he made a mistake, but would you marry a woman who wanted to be with you then found someone that she wanted more and that you had to talk into realizing that you were the best thing for her. If that kids heart was no more with ND than this, then he isnt the type of kid that we want. He may end up transferring to Elon or Deleware. We are going to get roughed up a bit next year, but we will be back.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 1:58 pm | #

Gallaher - agree wholeheartedly with what you have to say re the conversion of 'o'players a few years back into becoming the backbone of productive defenses. This is the time when we have to do that again.

The "sky is falling" warnings I made re Purdue and AFA were from seeing deficiencies in the team that no one else either saw, or wanted to see [back at that point in the season]. To this day, I don't consider our win over PSU a shining moment: we beat a team with a rookie qb early in the year, and would've had our hands full mere weeks later.

I am harsh on us, but only because I've seen what we are when we are at our best. We are getting there. Who was it who said that "9-3 isn't good enough."?

I'm probably cursed with some of the gene that Leahy and Hogan had. Good to see your post.

Go Irish
BillH | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 2:29 pm | #

People have been saying that Notre Dame is going to "be back" since '94. I don't know. Is 9-3 actually good enough and consistently getting hammered by our top rivals? Does that satisfy you guys? That's going to continue. I'm not being pessimistic.

I don't give a rip about Justin Trattou. The point is we have the United States of America to recruit from and no one is coming here to play defense. You don't need God's gift to defensive coaching to attract recruits. Did we get four straight number one recruiting classes under Coach Holtz because the defensive players fell passionately in love with Barry Alvarez and Gary Darnell?

As far the 2002 defense... isn't that the same one that got humiliated by USC and NC State proving to the entire college football world that they were a paper tiger? Wow. It really is La-La Land for some of you.
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 4:53 pm | #

This kids today havent been around long enough to know what the "mystic" is of Notre Dame. Since most have been born ND has been a footnote to college football. If the family isnt a big ND family,these kids dont know about us. Further more, Davie and Willingham did a lot to ruin relationships with high school coaches who dealt with ND for years. Zorich even said that it was good to see ND getting in touch with kids from Chicago again. As for special teams, I blame that totally on Polian, you cant say we dont have athletes on the special teams, Weis loves to use starters on ST. Kicker is another story. Would you rather play linebacker at ND or USC, or Ohio St, Michigan, Penn St.? If you would rather play anywhere else, then why? We think it is ridiculous for these kids to go anywhere but ND, we should. Some kids just dont want to come to our school and play football, it can be for any number of reasons. As much as we are loved nationally, we are hated nationally too. Wait a few years and tell me how these big name recruits are doing, quit judging before the fact.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 5:12 pm | #

"As far the 2002 defense... isn't that the same one that got humiliated by USC and NC State proving to the entire college football world that they were a paper tiger? Wow. It really is La-La Land for some of you."

Wow what a calumny laid on the head of that defense, which singlehandedly won what - 5, 6 - games for us that year? I'm not sure what land you're from, but if Charlie Weis plans to play either an option quarterback armed with a bloody hangnail (USC) or a walk-on quarterback with the arm strength of my Aunt Daisy (NC State), then it isn't going to matter what kind of defense we have, is it?
Gallaher | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 5:41 pm | #

Ah, the "mystic" of Notre Dame. I think I had that guy for physics. Wacky dude.
Catz | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 5:50 pm | #

Does Urban have another problem?



I just hate to hear about anything bad happening to our friend Urban Meyer, but it seems that fresh off losing his scholarship to LSU, and committing to Alabama, that DT recruit Luther Davis has decided to be Nick Saban's new recruiting coach, and possibly Urban Meyer's newest antagonist. Luther's latest target is his best friend Ahmad Paige. Paige is a Top 100 WR who originally committed to FSU, but has since withdrawn the commitment. Since then most of the experts have predicted that Paige would end up with Meyer because for all of his great recruiting skill, Urban has not only yet to snare a Top 100 WR, he does not even have a 4 star recruit at that slot (his only WR recruit is a 3 star). Does Luther really have a shot at turning his best friend from the Gators to the Crimson Tide? Well apparently he does because Paige is scheduled to visit Alabama on February 2nd and Luther Davis will make an unofficial return to campus to accompany his best friend.

Here is the headline from the Scouts, Inc. Briefing Room:

Ahmad Paige following Luther Davis to 'Bama?
Paige is scheduled to visit Alabama on February 2nd and Luther Davis will make an unofficial return to campus to accompany his best friend. Davis told the Press-Register, "We always talked about playing together in college."

When asked about Paige's chances of committing to the Tide Davis responded, "Real good because I'm coming."

First Sidell Corley de-commits Florida, most likely for the Crimson Tide, now a recruit who would fill a critical need for the Gators and was considered by some to be a Gator lock, may also be headed to the Tide. A nice nasty war is starting to brew between Meyer and Saban. Maybe Urban’s recent behavior is starting to turn his karma in a bad direction.
elmarubtc | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 7:42 pm | #

We may come to rue Saban more than Gallaher's cousin Urban.

Go Irish
Bill H | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 8:55 pm | #

Bill H,

I agree that ST will continue to be a BIG problem next year. Polian is on the hot seat. I didn't see Kickers on our radar at last check. Not good, CW or Polian.

The adverse ratio of Def to Off is not a good sign.

CB better coach position switches better than Holtz or we're in trouble.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 9:19 pm | #

until we prove that the defense can work, recruits are going to be iffy on the Irish. next season will be a test. The defense must improve, but the inexperience will make that difficult. Brown has a tough job ahead of him and will prove his worth during the first 8 games of 07
irishman | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 10:46 pm | #

Perhaps Trattou lacks a certain amount of self confidence, viz., that he cannot develop elsewhere on defense after he would enroll. No doubt we lost a good guy with potential. Too bad. ND is not for everybody. Looks like Paddy Mullen is about to become a defensive end. I seem to remember that Coach Corwin said he would decide his defensive scheme after he evaluated his talent.(Remember Ara in '65?)Let's not avoid the possibility an embittered DC may have had a roll in this!
Joe Schaefer | Email | Homepage | 01.27.07 - 10:53 pm | #

Maybe you should examine OSU's mediocre crop of 14 recruits (currently ranked as ~#20 recruiting class in the country) before you start pointing fingers. People in Columbus are starting to panic...it's pretty amusing to watch.
***************************************
Lmao, you mean the one where everybody is a 4 or 5 star???? Do you mean the one thats only behind USC and Texas in rating per player???? Do you mean the class where we missed out on guys at already stacked positions???? Do you mean the 08 class thats loaded in Ohio and the staff is hording as many scholarships as possible to sign because we'll only have 8 ships available??????? Which one??
tOSU is Righteous | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 12:18 am | #

Re: OSU's class.

"...you mean the one where everybody is a 4 or 5 star???? Do you mean the one thats only behind USC and Texas in rating per player????... Which one??"

OSU ratings right now:

Rivals: No 5 stars, 11x4-stars, 3x3-stars. Behind Fla, USC, and ND in average per player.

Scout: 1x5-star, 9x4-stars, 3x3-stars, 1x2 star. Behind Fla, Texas, USC, LSU, Notre Dame, and.... wait for it... Michigan in average per player.

So the answer is no, he doesn't mean the one in your imagination.
Jeff | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 12:44 am | #

Guys,

I just thought this comment was awesome. DE Sidell Corley decommitted from Florida, and is probably going to go to LSU (which is tolerable in comparison to a FL school). Anyway what was awesome is this quote by his father.

'"If the Florida coach was like Les Miles we probably wouldn't have de-committed," Corley Sr. said. "His integrity is unbelievable. After Sidell committed to Florida several weeks ago, Les left him alone. He stayed in contact, but he left us alone. I love that. That's huge."'

Obviously the Corleys are good people who do not like the ethics of Meyer.
I wish Sidell luck wherever he comes across the Irish on the field.

Here's the link if you want to read the entire article: http://www.shreveporttimes.com/a...S0202/ 301270008
JR | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 12:51 am | #

i meant to say "unless he comes across the irish on the field"
JR | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 1:01 am | #

I would love to see Corley sign with LSU. Then we can all watch his freshman year as he puts the big hurt on Tim Tebow while screaming "F**K you Urban, you lying sack of s**t!"

Hm...anyone want to pitch in to pay for a mic on Corley's helmet during the LSU/UF game next year?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 1:36 am | #

Another comment that caught my eye in the Shrevport Time article was this one from Corley's father,

"Plus Florida is going to a different style of defensive end, a smaller defensive end. Corley is going to be at 255 or 260 next season. And Florida uses a lot of 3-4 (alignments), whereas LSU uses the 4-3. So LSU would basically be a perfect fit."

Huh? Isn't that why Trattou left jumped from ND to UF, so he wouldn't have to play in the 3-4?
Eddie | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 9:47 am | #

i can totally see why a kid would have reservations about going to a defense that has been historically bad and has just uprooted the DC that recruited him and installed an unproven position coach at DC. Compare that to UF where the DEs were the heroes of the NC game, blowing up Troy Smith. Who wouldn't want that? My question is, where did he get that Brown was setting a 3-4 defense? wasn't he still making up his mind?
Irish4eva | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 11:24 am | #

P.S. Can we start hating Urban Meyer now?
Irish4eva | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 11:37 am | #

Southside,
I hear what you're saying, but if you look at CW's comments to Maisel, they were along the lines of "we're gonna sign a couple guys that NO ONE EXPECTS US TO SIGN".

I think we can all agree that the guys you mentioned were hardly verbals that came out of left field. We were #1, 2, or 3 on all of their lists.

Who knows, maybe Charlie secretly knew about Petrino's exodus and one of the guys he was talking about was this kicker from Louisville :)

Whoever mentioned the overabundance of rose colored glasses on this board...I have to agree. I was in the "Charlie can do no wrong" camp from the start, but after USC, LSU, and now the disastrous defensive recruiting I am half as confident as I was that we'll win a NC in the next few years. I am VERY JUICED about Corwin though...can't wait to see what he can do on the field AND on the recruiting trail. Steve Filer, your table is ready.
Tony "The Ant" Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 12:05 pm | #

Well, to be a good player you have to be able to play your position. To be a great player you have to be able to adapt to the position that you are playing. If Florida is using some 3-4 alignments then what is Trattou going to do there. If he was told that he would be beefed up to 275-280 and play inside then he could have done that at ND. This whole situation stinks with Meyer. It seems already that some "fans" are ready to jump off of the Weis bandwagon already. This figures, he doesnt win a NC in two years and he is the worst recruiter in history who can't really coach a team up and gets beaten badly by teams who have more talent. I was watching a replay of the '90 ND-Miami game. Miami had close to 500 yards total offense. The difference is, we won. I cant help to believe that maybe Minter did some sabotaging after he figured he was going to be let go. A phone call here to a recruit, telling them that he wasnt going to be at ND next year, especially as a DC and LB coach. Plus,quit worrying about Malcolm Smith, his brother goes to USC, he was offered a long time ago. There are still a few good ones left out there who havent committed. Let's see what kind of energy, Corwin Brown can bring these next two weeks.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 2:16 pm | #

I told you a while back that the UI and PSU games showed the cracks in your team's foundation. Never forget that, even with more than 600 yards against a turnaround Notre Dame team, the Irish were driving for the win with less than 2-minutes left in that game.
***************************************
Lmao.. We lost because the team didn't show up after the Michigan game and the 8 week layoff. But lets compare track records shall we?
tOSU
-Played 2nd Natl Championship game in 5years.
-OSU was 10 pts away in 2005 and One game away in 2003 playing for another championship.
-5 BCS bowl games,tied with USC and 3-1 record under the Vest(the best).

Lets see ND fandom trackrecord
1.Hasn't won a bowl game close to 15 years now
2.Two BCS bowl games and 2 consecutive blowouts.
3.Best win for Weis was a close loss to USC
4.A streak of double digit pt loss to top 20 teams goes back 5 games.

So yeah I can see your point about our weaknesses getting exposed and cracks forming. Nice!!!!!
tOSU is Righteous | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 4:12 pm | #

For the record, many thanks for the Bon Jovi reference. Life goes better with Bon Jovi.
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 5:02 pm | #

I have to say I'm a little disappointed at the name-calling towards Trattou in some of these comments. He made a decision that appears to be solely about football. It may work out for him, it may not. But he wasn't dishonest about it or underhanded. He went with his gut feeling and, while it hurts ND, I don't think that's a reason to bash the kid.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 5:11 pm | #

Pat,

There is no name calling. Kids today need to know that when they give their word that word means something. He should have never committed in June then. No one is saying that he is dishonest or underhanded, he should have been above the dishonest and underhanded dealings of a snake oil salesman like Urban Meyer. With Meyer and Saban and Spurrier in the SEC now, all we have to do is let them fight each other out and pick who we need. The SEC should be a joy to watch. Especially in the off-season. Bill H., bottom line is we lost to OSU and got blown out three times this year. Let righteous blow off, that is a program that should be investigated every year. Our day is coming folks.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 6:31 pm | #

I've not seen this mentioned on BGS and if I missed it I'll apologize now, however, has anyone noticed that Urban Meyer has spent his career as a head coach leaving a school after a two year stint for another school? He did it at Bowling Green and Utah before going to Florida. While he has been successful at each stop along the way he basically has won with someone else's recruits. What was Bowling Green's record after UM left for Utah? What has Utah done since Meyer took off for Florida? I guess I'm asking has Urban won anything with his own recruits?
KnoxvilleIrish | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 6:35 pm | #

Looks like we lost Martez Wilson to the Zooker before Trattou switched.

We done got Zooked again.
Irish4eva | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 6:39 pm | #

Just back from the Nova - ND weekend. What a game!

side note: saw Duval Kamara I believe... he is huge.

anyway, I have a family member who is a family praciticioner for the coaching staff and also has a little girl in Hannah and friends with Downs.... not too much insider info for the Trattou story save for it being Mattison's doing against ND and Charlie is f'in pissed. Hear some good verbal replays of Charlie's rants post Trattou de-commit.

That being said, I also saw Corwin Brown at the game. He has all the tools and persona to be an excellent d-recruit. Lookin forward to it.
Brian Q | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 6:48 pm | #

If we didn't have the LB firepower (size, speed and tackling) in a 4-3, is anyone iffy on having more LB (that we don't have) on the field?

Cheerios-is-NOT-right,

Get off our FOOTBALL blog, troll.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 8:44 pm | #

The Lost Boy,

Moving from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and saying that "if we didn't have em last year, why would we have em this year" when we need one more isn't quite accurate. The skill sets and responsibilities of LBs in a 4-3 are quite different from that in the 3-4.

For example, Kallen Wade is a heck of an athlete, and big too (around 6'5 225 when he came in, prolly will be a little bigger next year). Yet he would probably never be an OLB or a MLB in a 4-3 system. He's fast, but not quite fast enough to play LB there, and would more likely wind up playing DE which he was pegged at. Yet in the 3-4, his athleticism can make him an excellent rush OLB (similar to the role Grant Irons played when he was at ND under Davie). Someone with similar skills and a shade more speed like Kerry Neal or Mo Richardson could play the other OLB position. So you see, a 3-4 could actually make it EASIER for us to field an impact LB core due to varied skill sets. Such a change like that (though I'm just spitballin' this) would allow Crum and Brockington/Toryan Smith to solidify the middle.

My main point is, in terms of moving players around, it's sometimes easier to think of a 3-4 as more of a 5-2 with regards to personnel, its just that the responsibilities/names for the positions change
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.28.07 - 10:15 pm | #

My question is why are they worrying about switching everyone over to the DL instead of going after some linebackers for the 3-4?

I think that losing Trattou was a shocker but Chris Donald would have had a had a bigger impact in a 3-4, plus don't forget about Kerry Neal. EPSN doesn't even have Trattou in the top 10 DE's, Neal is #5.
Brandon Satchell | Email | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 10:00 am | #

I personally cannot wait to see Kerry Neal on the field. I've been saying that ever since we read that little story about Weis watching a handful of his plays at 4 am and immediately demanding that his coaches go after him. No major recruiting service had even heard of him at that point. I cannot wait to see what they do with his athleticism in a 3-4. Very excited.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 10:42 am | #

Shot through the heart - classic title. After I finally got it, I laughed enough to ease the pain. Let's hope after going up against us in recruiting next year, Meyer is singing 'Don't do me like that' by Gainesville native Thomas Petty.
indy | Email | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 11:07 am | #

Plus, it's nice to know not all programs have the magic touch when it comes to poaching ND verbal commits:

"I think things are pretty much done, there have been a few things in the mail and a few calls," Dever responded when asked schools were still recruiting him. "The only school that has really tried to contact me has been the University of Washington. Other than that I haven’t heard from a lot of people."

Dever looks like good people, and with his hair he'll fit right in. Welcome Dev!
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 1:22 pm | #

i remember Pritchett as a QB from Grace Hall ... he used to throw incoming freshman's belongings and their mattresses out of the tower windows
theTurk | Email | Homepage | 01.29.07 - 5:18 pm | #