This is not intended to be sarcastic, but it will be great when ND improves their protection to a point that we can utilize the overflow of talent that we seem to be bringing in at tight end. Tight ends can be a great asset, especially catching balls at the college level. They can create confusion and matchup issues for the defense. I assume that these highly rated TEs will eventually be great assets blocking as well. Despite recent struggles, and this transfer, I am still VERY exciting for the coming seasons.
Joel | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 12:04 pm | #

Bluegray Sky guys and anyone else-

Did anyone else see the following? On one of our 4th and 1 plays where we of course didn't get it, why aren't we doing a quick delayed TE release coupled with a reverse bootleg. It appeared the CB would've been alone on an island giving the QB the opp to run for one yard or dump it off for a few. The LBs were in tight as they knew we running up the middle, it looked as if it would'be been wide open and would've been a huge confidence builder not only for the team for Clausen. If I can see, it is making me question the ability of our coaches to call plays.

I am really wondering how much the last two years- and even Weis' NE yrs- were about him calling plays or him giving the QB a set of plays to run/ audible into. Yes, the OL is pourous but that only goes so far. A QB has to make plays himself sometimes if he is really that good.

Thoughts?
PM | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 12:12 pm | #

also o a side note, Ragone is a nasty player from what I can see. For better or worse, he was in on that stupid penalty by TT in the PSU game, so at least he shows that he'll get his teammates back. And since then I have seen him mixing it up with some people on ST play. I like it
PM | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 12:17 pm | #

Are we losing more transfers than other schools, or does it just feel that way with Jones and Reuland leaving back to back?
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 12:41 pm | #

Just lost our 3rd string Soph QB who knew he would never be the full-time starter during his tenure and the 4th string tight end in pretty much the same situation. This is healthy in many ways.
Alex | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 12:48 pm | #

PM,
1. Can't say I saw what you saw as far as possibilities for 4th and 1, but if I had to guess how that would play out, the DE or OLB on that side likely would have been able to react quickly to come out and cause problems for JC to run or dump it, and/or the TE would have dropped it. Just the way the season is going (yes, glass is three-quarters empty for me right now).

2. On Ragone, I asked this a few weeks ago on one of these boards and never received an answer - what did that PSU kid do to cause TT to go so completely off like that? The ABC coverage was too tight and commentary too limited to show/explain what happened leading up to the point TT was pounding the kid while he was prone on the ground and #83 (is that Ragone?) was helping. As I said before, TT needs to control himself (he's had a pretty bad pattern of getting personal fouls every game since then), but I am really curious what set him off.

Good luck to Reuland.
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:00 pm | #

I don't think Jones & Reuland leaving has anything to do (or very little to do) with our 0-4 start. In each case there was a primary question about playing time. Jones wants to go somewhere to play QB, and Reuland was buried on the depth chart and wants to play TE.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:04 pm | #

Off the top of anyone's head, who are the seven seniors eligible for an extra year?
Gallaher | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:06 pm | #

IndyEsq-

The best I know, from which I gathered from a few msg boards, was that the PSU player may have kneed TT during the play. I've watched the replays and didn't see anything so I am not sure what happend, but that's what I hear. Even if that happened, why would you retaliat like that? I don't fault Ragone since if I was a FR I would certainly think to help out my captain. But again, TT needs to be yanked. Week in and week out he hurts us. He has shown this year that he cannot be the go to guy....very disappointing.

On a side note, look at UM's leadership. Mike Hart singlehandedly saved their season. His leadership and ability to take the team on his shoulders has allowed Mallet to play loose and have fun and see the results. By no means is TT a Mike Hart type player, but that's what should have happened this year. A 5th yr SR- whether TT, Sullivan, or Carlson, needed to take that pressure of Clausen by saying "I got it. I'll 'open holes, run well, or catch what you throw'. You just do oyur job." We don't have anything lik that.
PM | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:06 pm | #

The departure of Jones and Reuland uncovers a fallacy in the recruiting method of CW. He has been telling recruits that if they commit to ND that he can assist them in eventauly playing in the NFL. If for a number of reasons, a player who commits on this basis does not see or forsee significant playing time, he will do his best to leave ND and find somewhere else he can 'showcase' his talents.

Lou Holtz said that ND should recruit those who want to be at ND. This is certainly advice CW should follow and integrate into his recruiting efforts.
Peter | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:17 pm | #

A little tidbit....

Now that MSU and Purdue are ranked in the top 25, all eight of ND's first eight opponents have been ranked this year, with all but UM, GT, and UCLA not being ranked right now.

That's a pretty brutal schedule....now the question does beg, where they propped up by beating a bad ND team?
PM | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:21 pm | #

Peter,

I disagree with your premise. Weis offers kid's a chance at the NFL, but the effort and production has to be a two-way street. If yeatman and now ragone are showing something in practice and in games that reuland isnt showing, it isnt necessarily Weis' fault. The kid was given a chance and found himself buried on the depth chart behind three very good players.

Also, to assert that Weis doesnt integrate some sort of "does the kid want to be at ND" criteria into his recruiting efforts is ludicrous. Kids with NFL aspirations need PT to show what they can do. Reuland and Jones werent going to get that PT.

These kids cant sit at 3rd and 4th on the depth chart their whole careers and think that somehow they'll sniff the NFL. C'mon. get real.
Alex | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:27 pm | #

While recruiting, I think Weis also mentions something about...oh a little thing like.. a good EDUCATION!
PTINDY | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:32 pm | #

Charlie Weis has now lost three players from his recruiting class of 2006-Reuland, Demetrius Jones and Zach Frazer. Please, no "it was Ty's fault these players left" comments.

On the positive side, this leaves more room to recruit players on more needy positions that may have a chance to contribute right away.

However, on the negative side, this could be used as amunition by rival coaches on the recruiting trail, not to mention the shot to the gut in team morale.
Thomas | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:35 pm | #

Thomas - How is a shot in the gut to team morale? A player who wasn't going to see the field much left the program. I would think that everyone would understand and wish him the best.

As for rival coaches using this on the recruiting trail, every program has transfers. It's nothing new and in fact is pretty common at programs that routinely bring in excellent recruiting class after excellent recruiting class.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:42 pm | #

Hopefully Ambrose Wooden has no more eligibility left. I'm tired of watching him chase receivers into the end zone.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:44 pm | #

It was Ty's fault these players left.
Gallaher | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:52 pm | #

PM,

MSU and PSU are the two teams that could qualify as possibly being "propped" up into the top 25 after beating a bad ND team. MSU is barely ranked in only one of the polls and have beaten two BCS teams (although both weak teams), so I don't know how propped they have been. PSU lost in a close game to 2-2 UM and beat on two inferior oponents (on top of beating ND handily). They are ranked 19 & 21. Although many are arguing that UM is turning things around and may win the Big 10, PSU has won 3 games against teams with a combined 1-11 record (1-8, if you discount the head to head) and lost to an unranked team with a 2-2 record (1-2, if you discount head to head) that lost to a I-AA school (which got beat by Wofford). I think you might be able to argue that they have proved little and are somewhat propped up. Although, rankings at this stage of the year are always going to be fluid because of the dynamics and unpredictability of teams as well as the usual weak schedules from a lot of the bigger programs that do not give you an adequate sampling to base rankings on. Sorry if I rambled, hopefully there are some coherent points here.
Joel | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 1:56 pm | #

I don't know. Sounds like he just wasn't happy at ND, not even for football reasons. Having been born in Florida, I can identify with anyone who has a hard time adjusting to life in South Bend. It took me at least a couple years to get used to the weather.
Shadow Hawkins | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 2:03 pm | #

Pat:

Team Morale: If a lousy player with a lousy disposition leaves, then the team is better off without him, of course. But, a player with no history of being a problem leaves four games into the season, right before a meaty portion of the season is about to start, must have some sort of effect on team morale. He put himself in front of the team when the team needs him most. Injuries happen all of the time and these types of role players need to be ready to contribute when the team needs them. Teams need to have solidarity, from the benchwarmers to the starters. If you were to ask Charlie, if he would prefer that Rueland-type players stay or go, I am sure he would want these types of players to stay and man-in out for the good of the team.
Thomas | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 2:19 pm | #

It's simple. Guys of Reuland's pedigree need PT to showcase their skills for the NFL. It was becoming fairly apparent that he wasnt going to have a good chance of doing that at ND.

4 games into the season he was already 4th on the depth chart and with top notch TEs coming in next year it wasnt going to be getting any easier to find PT.

So, to ensure that he'd only have to sit out '07 he had to get out now. Otherwise he'd have to sit out both '07 and '08 before being able to play for another D-1 team in '09.

It's simple.

The type of player ND needs ot get to NC contention is the same type of player that aspires for the NFL. They dont sit at 3rd and 4th on the depth chart for their careers and think the NFL will come calling.
Alex | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 2:54 pm | #

Peter, I don't see how it harms ND if players who don't pan out, for whatever reason, decide that they'd rather pursue greener pastures. I'm not saying that I want them to transfer — I want them to do what's best for them, whether that be to transfer in search of a better situation or stay at ND and get a great education. But if they do choose to go, it's a player who typically wasn't figuring heavily in the week-to-week performance of ND, and it frees up a scholarship for the staff to spend on a good recruit.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 2:56 pm | #

For another angle on the recent transfers, ND has lost two of the most dynamic players in last year's Bookstore Basketball Tournament. Jones was probably the best athlete in the whole tournament, and Reuland anchored the low post and hustled every play for the tournament runner-up. Robbie Parris (tournament MVP), Pat Kuntz and Sergio Brown remain to defend their title.
Bkstr | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 3:13 pm | #

Well, we won't have The Kaiser to kick around anymore.

Tschüss, Herr Reuland, our unhappy wanderer! Gunter glieben glauchen globen!
PaddytheGreek | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 3:21 pm | #

Sucks. Thanks for handling it with class though, Konrad.

Ok, serious question: Do I have any NCAA eligibility left? I have never been near a football field, and obviously have completed my degree. Can a person who has never played a varsity sport enroll in a graduate program and try out for the team? This would be a great boon to my already extensive fantasy life.
indy | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 3:27 pm | #

i can think of another program with a lot of transfers...

USC

I'll totally blame Charlie for all these transfers though. He brought in TOO MUCH talent.
irishguy06 | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 3:28 pm | #

As long as it doesn't interfere with my hip-hop career. 'Don't call it a comeback...'
indy | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 3:28 pm | #

in response to the way people are paying attention to the recent transfers...we're just not used to this kind of thing. other schools experience multiple transfers a year and with good recruiting fill up the space quickly. i feel like bc we're seeing it pop up on all of our own sites now it's making people nervous we're the only ones going through this. i doubt anyone other than nd fans would know or care about the transfers if the qb race didnt spotlight them. and with the jones debacle sites like espn reported on reuland. how often do you read about other schools' transfers? hardly ever. don't worry this stuff is normal.
alanon | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 3:42 pm | #

"Konrad really wasn't happy. It's more than just football. The losing had nothing to do with it."

Somebody say something about a loss?
Shadow Hawkins | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 3:51 pm | #

Good Stuff
Mission | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 4:20 pm | #

If you weren't comfortable at Notre Dame why did you go there? It was 100 percent about playing time. It ALWAYS is and people who say it isn't are just lying. That's so ridiculous to say otherwise. What an awful season. The comment board even sucks now and the only thing anyone writes about is people who transfer.... BORING.
Nora's Money Shot | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 4:27 pm | #

Best wishes, Konrad. Knock 'em dead at UCLA, or USC, or wherever!

Go Irish
Bill H. | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 4:30 pm | #

Gallaher -

All 7 seniors are eligible for a 5th year - Wolke, Jabbie, Vernaglia, Brown, Crum, Lambert, and Ferrine.

PM -

Not only have 8 been ranked, but 6 of them were ranked in the top 15 at some point. I agree with Joel that a couple of them were propped by beating ND, and UCLA and Michigan have proven overrated, but it is still impressive. MSU and Purdue should also be in the top 15 if they win their next two games (Wisconsin and Northwestern for MSU, ND and Ohio State for Purdue).

Looking on the bright side of the three transfers, they all came from the once 29-man sophomore class. The classes are slightly more balanced now.
Steve R | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 4:32 pm | #

Steve R, Wolke isn't one of them. He's gone. Isn't the 7th guy Darrin Bragg?
Chris | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 4:39 pm | #

Thomas, re: "But, a player with no history of being a problem leaves four games into the season, right before a meaty portion of the season is about to start, must have some sort of effect on team morale", the meaty portion of the season started on September 1 and lasts 8 games. No history of being a problem is one thing. Sitting 4th on a 4 man rotation is another, especially when next year he might sit 5th on a 5 man rotation.

indy, re: remaining eligibility, you have 4 years of eligibility to use up within 5 years of having started college. You are done, sorry to say. There's always fantasy camp in the summer, if you have the $6K to drop on it.
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 4:42 pm | #

Just wondering -- if you deduct the three transfers from the recruiting class of 06, where would that class have ranked?

Also, I see a lot of folks saying Reuland wasn't that good, so no big loss. On the other hand, this was a highly ranked player coming out of high school, and for some reason did not develop here. Is that all on him, or does that staff get some blame for failing to develop him?

One final comment: college recruiting today is much more about what you can do to help someone get to the NFL, especially when it comes to the top recruits. The reality is it's less and less about the school and the degree. Guys are coming to ND because they think CW can help them play NFL, and when that doesn't pan out, some of them are going to drop out -- that is probably a trend that will continue.
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 5:15 pm | #

Here are the seniors with eligibility left, from the ND website. I included J.J. Jansen:

Bragg, Darrin
Brown, Justin
Crum Jr., Maurice
Ferrine, Leo
Jabbie, Junior
Jansen, J.J.
Lambert, Terrail
Vernaglia, Anthony
JohnF | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 5:17 pm | #

IndyEsq/Indy

I've never been to college (not even in the old country), so does that mean I would have a full four years of eligibility?

I've got a pretty good right leg, thanks to soccer and rugby as a callow youth, and I think I'm still a Catholic being as the Pope hasn't written to me enclosing a Papal "Cease and Desist" decree.

Any ideas how I can get CW to drop into my local bar when he's on the next one of his recruiting trips to the West Coast? We've got a football behind the beer taps, and I could show him my stuff in the alley out back.

I might have a chance at being the oldest NCAA starting place kicker ever If not the oldest, at least the slowest, and certainly the most able to drink everyone else on the team under the table.
BurbankSteve | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 5:21 pm | #

Seniors who are eligible to return for a 5th year:
Maurice Crum (definite ok)
Justin Brown
Leo Ferrine
Darrin Brag
Terrail Lambert
Anthony Vernaglia
Junior Jabbie
I cannot see anyone other than Crum coming back = 6 more scholies available = a class of 25 (potentialy}
psdo51 | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 5:22 pm | #

indy

Ok, serious question: Do I have any NCAA eligibility left? I have never been near a football field, and obviously have completed my degree. Can a person who has never played a varsity sport enroll in a graduate program and try out for the team? This would be a great boon to my already extensive fantasy life.

You now hereby have an offer from GBU. You can play with me and my homeys. A good education is guaranteed.
GB | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 5:34 pm | #

BGS is my main source for improving my grammar and vocabulary. I've had to "dictionary.com" a few words here and there. Is it supposed to be "barring" in stead of "baring" or do I need another english lesson? Normally I'd chalk it up to a typo, but you guys have thrown enough curve balls, I think I'd better be safe than sorry.
Ebon Nicks | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 6:01 pm | #

Ebon Nicks - You are correct. I had a typo. Thanks for the catch.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 6:15 pm | #

Word.
Ebon Nicks | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 6:30 pm | #

GB, I'm not going to bogart in on indy's answer regarding your future as a college football player, but you should now begin preparing yourself to be the designated beer buyer and answering to your new nickname of "Pops" or "Gramps".
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 7:00 pm | #

Voice

I'm going to have to get another job to do that.
GB | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 7:49 pm | #

Losing these 3 recruits would drop that class from 8th to 11th in the rankings, just ahead of Ohio State.

This assumes the other teams have not lost any players.
Matt Angry Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 8:26 pm | #

IndyEsq: Not to get too "Clintonian" here, but I wrote: "... 'a' meaty part of the season", not "...'the' meaty part of the season". Of course while most teams start the season with cupcake games at home - the SEC being exhibit "A" of this phenomena - ND starts with the season with the tough games.
Thomas | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 9:02 pm | #

ok, pass the Kristal. I've used up my eligibility and I'm returning my attentions to upholding the reputation of the #1 ranked '06 recruiting class at BGSU. Swedish bikini team, ND's loss is your gain.
indy | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 9:04 pm | #

We have always had transfers. This is just a little more glaring because of the timing. We have had quite a few QB's transfer over the years but none have become major stars anywher. LoVecchio, Zustock, Kent Graham and Joe Felitsky all transferred and if I am not mistaken Scott Grooms transferred and came back if my memory serves me correctly. A school who recruits a lot of talent has transfers, this may be just the beginning. We have to continue loading the pipeline though that is the only way we can get back to competiveness.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 9:19 pm | #

QB Ken Karcher of Shaler, PA also transferred out of Notre Dame after the '82 season and ended up starting for a couple years at Tulane. Later had a cup of coffee with the Denver Broncos.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 9:37 pm | #

Doug - I'm sure you meant Zack Kustok -- he actually had a terrific season after he transferred to Northwestern, running the spread offense under Randy Walker. I was reminded of Kustok tonight as the Big 10 Network showed the 2000 orthwestern-Michigan game, where Kustok led Northwestern to a wild 54-51 win. That may be more offense than we will produce all year this season!
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 10:40 pm | #

Will Sharpley continue to play football after this year or will he focus on baseball?

Considering how thin we are at QB all the sudden, I would hate to lose him too.
Biff | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 11:04 pm | #

Where on the UND website can 5th year eligibility be found? On player profiles? Or is there a list?
Chris | Email | Homepage | 09.25.07 - 11:39 pm | #

Yeah, I got Bragg and Wolke mixed up.
Steve R | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 7:40 am | #

Reuland was in on the TD run by TT. Go back to your TV and look. Haden announces that it was "Carlson who threw the block" but if you slow it down it shows number 88 Konrad Reuland who threw the block.

I think it's true that he just wasn't happy.
Nick | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 8:48 am | #

Pat, thanks for the concise breakdown regarding Rueland and the scholarship situation. I believe this works to the advantage of all concerned. If we could add 4-6 additional quality recruits to the current class, it would be tremendous.
Ted | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 9:31 am | #

I don't think the open scholarship will make a difference for this recruiting class - we will do well to get three more commitments and not lose any current ones. Where this really helps is in 2009, which was looking to be a 14-person class before the recent transfers.
Steve R | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 9:58 am | #

Huh, you're right Nick. ND actually ran three tight end sets and had Reuland in with Yeatman and Ragone. No Carlson.

Interesting.

And Reuland did throw a very nice block to let Travis walk into the endzone.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 11:22 am | #

Chris, you need to look at the ND roster for seniors, then click on each player's name to see his profile. That will list the game experience each has. Players that are seniors now, but do not have 3 years where they played a game could be considered for a 5th year.
JohnF | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:50 pm | #

It's not that hard to believe that Reuland thought he was going to the best place to play football, realized he would not get nearly as much playing time as he wanted at an over-stocked position, and decided he didn't like the Bend all that well after all.

ND isn't for everyone, even if they are attracted to its allure and tradition at first. We are also recruiting the best tight ends in the country. You can't assume he isn't developing under our coaches just because he came in highly recruited and is still the 4th tight end. Of any position, that spot has probably the toughest competition, and with a stud like Yeatman in front of him on the depth chart, it looks a little gloomy for him.

Also, he is from CA and that's quite a change to go all the way to Indiana. If UCLA is really that interested in him, look how good that is for our program. The guys who are good but aren't quite good enough for ND are transferring to UCLA. With any luck, USC could be next (not that I really want anyone to go to USC).

In the end, I'm glad he handled it well. I hope he does well where ever he transfers to, but I hope our tight ends do better. If the guys above him on the depth chart turn out to be busts and he excels elsewhere, then that's a coaching problem. With the talent we have at tight end, I just don't see that happening.
JM | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:50 pm | #

Lambert and Wooden...Wooden and Lambert...Jeeze, my nightmare...at least they've benched Ferrine.
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:11 pm | #