IS IT FOOTBALL SEASON YET????
ARIrish | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 9:32 am | #

Here's my question: Will the attacking 3-4/4-3 mutant defense match up to Michigan's new and improved spread option?
T-Schaef | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 10:03 am | #

I am glad to learn that Mr. Tenuta is a UVa grad. As an addendum to my diatribe on strength and conditioning, posted earlier this morning on the previous blog, the strength coaches at Virginia during his time there were two of the best strength coaches in football history: Bill Dunn and John Gamble. I'll bet that Coach Tenuta will have some pretty interesting and valid opinions of Mendoza's program by the end of the semester in May. Of course, we'll never know them, but hopefully Charlie will. As an "Assistant Head Coach - Defense", he should feel comfortable making observations and recommendations on anything and everything that will make the Irish better in '08 and beyond.
Also, Gene Corrigan was the AD at Virginia back then, just prior to coming to ND in 1981. I wonder if he recommended Tenuta to Weis during Charlie's offseason critique-a-thon?
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 10:14 am | #

Voice - There was an interesting interview with Mendoza recently on BGI. I plan on doing a post on ND's recent combine showings and how it meshes with what Mendoza said in the article about his strength training approach. It's premium content, so I'm a bit limited when it comes to talking about it over here, but I hope it will be interesting.

And just to hopefully make you feel better, Mendoza did say he's changed the OL workout from the past few years to put more bulk on the guys.

Also, to be fair to Sullivan, I think his past history with shoulder injuries has limited his bench work.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 10:31 am | #

OUCH!!!! I just watched that youtube video. I'm sure glad he's on our side now. That brought back some terrible memories. Go Irish in '08.
Paul | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 11:32 am | #

The saying goes you win NC's with defense. I can't wait till the Spring Game to witness the changes first hand.
If we can't pick up some additional defensive talent with this next class like we have just seen come aboard with this staff recruiting then we can fold the tent.
I want to see some massive body blows this coming season for the most part on the skunkbears!
TBone 1966 | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 11:58 am | #

T-Schaef,

I haven't been following what's been going on in Ann Arbor, but I'm not really concerned about Michigan (at least for this year). Unless they get Pryor, they won't have the right kind of players to implement an effective spread option. I think we'll match up well with them. Of course, Rich-rod could be up for coach of the year if the players respond and run his system well from the start. I just got done reading Lou's autobiography and he doesn't buy into inexperience as an excuse.

Let me add my optimism to the benefits of the Tenuta hire. We're not going to all of a sudden seen the GT defense for 12 games next year, but he will add effective wrinkles to the game plan. I think the most positive benefit will be in his effect on the players. He just seems like the kind of coach who can get the most out of anyone.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:01 pm | #

If Tenuta can make ND a top 40 run defense, that will be a tremendous improvement over last season when ND finished 96th.

I think there is room for optimism, as ND probably has more talent than Tenuta ever worked with at GT, but I still think 2008 could be rough. I expect great gains in ND's defense by 2009.

As for recruiting. I'm not too worried about it. If Tenuta had 4 DB first rounders at tOSU, he must be doing SOMETHING right in the recruiting aspect. Besides, ND has Corwin Brown, who might just be the best recruiting in the nation.

If it was up to me, I think its fine if Tenuta leads the team in developing players (ie focuses on his strength) as opposed to having him focus on something else.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:07 pm | #

I don't want this to be a string about the skunkbears but I have mentioned to some friends of mine who are their fans, that if Pryor would want to come to ND I would not want him. He is a very talented player but appears to want too much attention, and does not, in my estimation, seem to be a team player.
With Tenuta and CB cooking up evil brew for the opposing offenses week to week, it make my mouth water and my heart pound.
TBone 1966 | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:14 pm | #

After reviewing the numbers I think ND has the potential to be a top 20 overall defense (based on yards per game).

Here's why:

Last year ND was 96th in run defense (195 yards/game) and 2nd in pass defense (162 yards/game). This made them 39th in total defense (ie total yards at 357 yards/game)), but 72 in scoring defense (points/game).

So, if Tenuta makes ND a top 40 run defense (134 yards/game) and the pass defense stays in the top 20 (197 yards/game), ND would have a top 20 total defense (331 yards/game), just like GT was last year (330 yards/game).

Obviously, none of this matters if ND is a #72 scoring defense.

OK, here's for blind optimism. Go ND.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:18 pm | #

I haven't seen many comments about Jon's 'Assistant Head Coach' role, but if I had to guess, he will be serving as much as a consultant to Charlie as co-architect of the defense. This offseason CW has been as contrite about his mistakes as I ever would have expected, and JT can do a lot more than dream up plays for Corwin's defense. He's got a strong college pedigree and consistently fielded teams with excellent fundamentals. He's often found ways to beat teams with superior athletic talent, and we could use more than a sprinkling of that.

Sure he'll add some plays to the D, but I think he's been brought in to find and fix whatever's wrong wherever it's wrong, and be the guy to tell Charlie when he's effing up.

To me, that speaks to Charlie's strength as a leader and coach, and his fanatical will to improve in both areas, even as it is an acknowledgement that some things - esp. fundamentals - have been badly handled.

Admittedly, this is rather speculative on my part. But I think CW knows he needs a smart, capable consigliere who can be a 'fixer' a la Harvey Keitel, and for that role, is Tenuda not the perfect hire?
indy | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:32 pm | #

Tenuta, rather. urk.
indy | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:33 pm | #

indy, good point.

Tenuta's ties to the Woody Hayes coaching tree is the same line that Lou Holtz came from.

I think that bodes well for ND's defense as well as ND's ability to tackle well.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:37 pm | #

After reading TBone's comment, I am wondering about the spring game. What do we, as fans, want to see: A million sacks or substantial o-line improvement? With o-line being such a problem last year and d-line being such a concern for next year, what's an Irish fan to do? What would a happy medium look like?
bcnd | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:53 pm | #

I'd rather have something resembling an offense this year, so I'm going with o-line improvement.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 12:57 pm | #

So from reading this breif clip I gather that Coach Tenuta is an idea, 4-3 personnel, 3-4 personnel, no-nonsense-type, discipline-type, agressive, attacking guy.
Brendan | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 1:05 pm | #

There HAS to be some kinda improvement with the Offensive line, right? I mean, can they really possibly get ANY worse?

So we have that to look forward to.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 1:11 pm | #

Just watched the video of his presser highlights and I have to say our linebackers, if no one else on the team, are going to be fired up next year. When JT gets in their face on the sideline, you know they're going to knock some heads on the field. Can't wait!
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 1:50 pm | #

atepesm - I posted elsewhere here that part of the reason the pass defense was statistically good was that teams could just run over us. Why throw the ball when you can have (for example) Choice run for 200+ yards?

Don't get me wrong; I'm "guardedly optimistic" for this fall's campaign. If for no other reason than the "quality" of opponent is (should be) easier than last year.

As Brad says, the offense almost has to be better this year, since they were so awful last year.

_Domer96
Domer96 | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 2:08 pm | #

Domer 96,

Your point is valid - I thought the same thing.

But, generally I felt that with little in the way of pass rush beyond Trevor Laws we played well in coverage. Other than the awful pass in the USC game, we played fairly well in pass defense.

Sean
Sean Fitzgerald | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 2:31 pm | #

Indy,

I, too, feel like the best thing Tenuta brings to the table is the ability -- and personality -- to challenge Weis.

I have a feeling that Weis' bruskness and confidence didn't exactly invite creative discussion. I think Weis is smart enough to know that's part of what's needed on this team, and Tenuta's a guy with the stature and personality to challenge Weis.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall during game-planning sessions. I've got an image of the two of them screaming profanities at each other for a half hour, then dissolving into maniacal laughter when they realize they've hatched the peeerrrrfect game plan.

I can dream.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 2:55 pm | #

I note on that video on many of the blitzes there is an o-lineman standing by himself, looking confused as heck as to why there doesn't seem to be anyone around to block. All the while, 2-3 GaTech defenders are swarming the quarterback behind him.

Confused front 5? Check.
david | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 3:19 pm | #

david,

While at the same time on a couple of other ones no less than THREE ND o-lineman blocked down on one guy while 2 others ran unabaided to the QB. I have a feeling (blind optimism?) we won't see that again this year, as they will have better continuity and experience.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 4:39 pm | #

I think we will mix in with the 4-3 and 3-4. I also think the defense will be awesome I cant wait till the Blue and Gold game.

Oh if we have speed on defense then we should be able to over come the spread.


I dont know im not a coach.
Austin The Mexican Leprechaun | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 4:40 pm | #

You know you got the NFL Combine on your mind when you read:
"I believe you mentioned you ran a 4-3..."
and think...damn Tenuta's faster than he looks!
Gabe | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 5:02 pm | #

Obviously, JT hire was the best off season move by CW. He was the first one to expose CW's offense weakness in a season opener and what better way to improve your team than hiring a guy that can make you better in practice.
As for CB, he has nothing to worry about,as he proved to improve the defense while the offense was inept last year. I can't wait for the spring game because I think this time, there will be no confusion who the real starter are after that game. As for CW,I think he learned a big lesson that you don't try to improve players during the season. With that said anyone who happens to have a poor spring game that is it, he should loose the spot. This year with the recruiting and the coaching staff we have, I have high expectation. It is really ridiculous to drive or fly to southbend as a fan and experience 38-0 (USC vS ND). I am so excited for this season, I can't wait for ND to start rolling on teams this year especially USC. Go Irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 5:09 pm | #

Pat,
I look forward to the post you are working on regarding Mendoza, his evolving approach, and the Combine. Thanks for the heads up!
I look forward to learning why he feels our linemen need more "bulk", rather than concentrating on developing strength, power, speed and explosiveness. Increased heft/bulk is usually coincidental to all of that, and offensive linemen typically have no problem gaining weight, especially once the weather cools and midseason practices taper off a bit. Bulk is achieved at the training table and with nutri-supplements, while strength is built in the gym.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 5:55 pm | #

When I first read the title, I thought you might be going to make this an Oscar-reference laden post, but I think that would require changing the title to "There Will Be Blitz" as opposed to "Blitzing."

I'm sure you can add some other references, something about this being a year for Atonement on the defensive side of the ball, and making the field for opposing offenses No Country For Young Men. I could go on like this...
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 6:55 pm | #

Is it too harsh a critique to ask: why are opposing OL's repping 70% more than ND's OL's? Jake Long from UM did 36-38 reps, as did the guys from U$C and tO$U.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 7:05 pm | #

Manningham from UM, WR, runs a 5.9 and 6.1 in his two forty's. That's not exactly blazing and he terrified the Irish. What the hell's up with that?
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 7:48 pm | #

Trevor Laws showed, once again, that he is a special player and is 100% self-motivated. He simply outworks everybody, and while I believe that he'll enjoy a very nice pro career, he'll also be ultra successful in any other endeavor he chooses. Of course, I'm Old School and his hair and beard gotta go, BUT he reppped 35 times in the bench at the Combine, which is on par with Vernon Gholston (tOSU) and Jake Long (tSKUNKS). I'll bet Laws is probably in Mendoza's doghouse for non-compliance!
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 8:02 pm | #

I'm in my 40's, weigh 230 and can do 19 reps and I'm not training for the nfl or a college game. Barring medical reasons, there is no excuse for the players or s/c coach. True, bench press doesn't dictate success as a lineman, but it's a barometer of overall strength and conditioning, which is precisely why the nfl test for it. Mendoza needs a change of philosophy or school.
BigE | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 8:50 pm | #

Nice Oscar tie in, by the way.

Do we get Coach Tenuta to get the "Dorothy Hamell" bob haircut and have him constantly flipping a coin?
Sean Fitzgerald | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 9:46 pm | #

Voice

I don't know if the S&C coach or someone else has this responsibility but it seems to me that flexibility is also an integral part of conditioning. It helps one move quickly with grace and helps prevent injuries, especially to joints. I don't know if it was flexibility or something else but the O line last year just stood there. Without flexibility, Barry Sanders or Gale Sayers would move like our O line. Check this out. Maybe this guy should be the S &C coach.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F...h? v=Fo3Ehyty1g0
GB | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 9:58 pm | #

GB, the youtube link didn't work. Would you please try again? Thanks.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 10:40 pm | #

GB, The link finally worked. Talk about flexibility! Thanks. I now realize how decrepit and stiff I really am. LOL!
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 10:49 pm | #

The guy is really strong too. I've never seen anyone do a pushup with just 2 hands and feet not touching ground.
GB | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 11:00 pm | #

TLaws is a beast. nfl.com also has his unofficial 40 time as sub 5 (4.97). Pretty f-in amazing for a DT.

Glad to see he is going to get all the recognition (and compensation) he deserves.
yak | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 11:04 pm | #

DC Domer, how about "Charlie Weis's War" for this season?
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 02.25.08 - 11:12 pm | #

That's it. Did you guys all watch the GT youtube blitz video?

MAN! ND's QB's looked TERRIBLE last year. Can you say "DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS".

I think ND will be better this year, because Clausen will be better than that.

Heck, the one blitz where the safety walks up to Sharpley from 3 time zones away. Geez, Sharpley looked like Chad Henne on that play. Throw the ball already. Heck, if it weren't for the GT safety, I think Sharpley may still be standing there.

CW BETTER get that fixed for 2008.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 3:36 am | #

Atepsm,

Tenuta doesnt have any link to the Woody Hayes coaching tree. He was in high school when Hayes was at Ohio St. He loved the Buckeyes and would sneak in to watch and he admired Hayes. That was his only link to him. He does have a hard-nosed approach to the game but that comes from his competitive nature.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 7:13 am | #

I'm not too worried about the lack of recruiting aspect to TAH-NOO-TAH. CW and Corwin have proven to be powerhouse recruiters. What we needed was a gritty coach whose only focus is to make the D nasty.

Tenuta just enhances the product that Corwin and CW are out presenting to recruits.
FightingSonofNotreDame | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 9:28 am | #

Doug,

I disagree. Tenuta does have a tie to the Woody Hayes coaching tree. Tenuta was a DB coach at tOSU. There is no way to coach at tOSU withOUT any ties to Woody Hayes. Its like saying Vince Lombardi didn't have ties to Knute Rockne. Vince did. He was coached by one of Rockne's four horseman (Crowley?) at Fordham (or so I vaguely remember reading somewhere).

You are right, Tenuta might not have coached DIRECTLY under Woody Hayes (like Lou did), but I'm willing to bet he's worked with guys that have. So I would think of Tenuta as being the next generation or 2 down on the tree.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 9:54 am | #

You cant say that because someone coaches at Ohio St that they are of the Woody Hayes coaching tree, anymore than you can say that any of the coaches today are of the Ara coaching tree. Fred Pugac was the DC when Tenuta first started at OSU but John Cooper was the head coach. By the time Tenuta got to OSU there was a completely different attitude than when Woody was there.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 10:11 am | #

All this coaching tree talk is very interesting. Is Bill Parcells the trunk on his own tree, with Belichick, Coughlin, Weis, and Crennel his limbs? Or is it okay to take it a step or two further by saying Parcells was an assistant under Ray Perkins who played for and learned from Bear Bryant while at Alabama? Perkins was then drafted by and played for Don Shula of the Baltimore Colts. Thus, if playing for great coaches gets you into their mentor's tree, we could say that Charlie is in the Bryant-Shula-Parcells-Belichick tree.
Does anyone know what team Kevin Bacon cheers for?
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 10:37 am | #

On a side not, Laws seems to be impressing at the combine.

http://nfldraft.rivals.com/conte....asp? CID=778825
jmc | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 10:42 am | #

Good one Voice,

I think that if we look hard enough we can find a connection to Rockne. I wouldnt want many Woody disciples, he was a nut. Lou wasnt really of the Woody tree, he came more from Paul Dietzel. I think he was on Hayes' staff no more than one or two years. I wouldnt say that makes you part of a tree, maybe a sapling. Is Ara part of Woody's coaching tree from his days at Miami of Ohio?
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 11:14 am | #

"I'd love to be a fly on the wall during game-planning sessions. I've got an image of the two of them screaming profanities at each other for a half hour, then dissolving into maniacal laughter when they realize they've hatched the peeerrrrfect game plan."

Hal, that made my day. Thanks. I'm going to imagine it that way too.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 12:36 pm | #

In regards to some Michigan comments, Pryor is not going to Michigan. Michigan fans are probably more irate about their S&C program than ND fans (new S&C dude from WV.) Mario's slow 40 times (although not as slow as posted) are a good example. Mario was/is football fast but his 40 times are perplexing.

As mentioned, the defensive stats for ND are distorted by the fact that they couldn't stop the run, were often losing badly, and played a schedule heavy on running teams--Air Force, Navy, Michigan with Mallett, and the Fighting Morelli's. That said, a good run defense will take you a long way. Partly because many teams can't pass consistenly or refuse to.

That TAH-NOO-TA stuff is hilarious.
imafreak | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 2:51 pm | #

My favorite part of that EDSBS piece:

"Tenuta: YOU NEED GET WHITE SAFETY OFF FIELD OR MAKE BLITZ!–

Weis: –yes, he’s gone, so don’t worry about him.

Tenuta: TAH-NOO-TAH LAUGH AND CRY SAME TIME WATCH HIM PLAY PASS COVERAGE!!! (takes huge bite of deer carcass.)"

I could relate. (About the pass coverage, not the deer carcass.)
Jade | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 2:55 pm | #

Everyone is talking about the blitz and being aggressive and whatnot, but I think we might be overlooking exactly how JT could benefit our rushing defense. In the 3-4 defense, the linemen occupy blockers while the linebackers clean up the play. JT is coaching the linebackers, and I think we might see a big increase in middle linebacker production this year. Mo Crum had a lot of tackles last year, but too often they were 5 yards downfield. Hopefully JT can help our MLBs make plays at the line of scrimmage as well. One article said he stresses disciplined assignment defense, so if nothing else our guys should be in the right position to make plays.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 4:31 pm | #

Voice

Does anyone know what team Kevin Bacon cheers for?

Kevin Bacon's kids play with Sean Astin's(sp?) kids. They met Sean in the local stogie men's night. Sean met Rudy and Rudy knows Charlie.

Kevin played in a movie in the swamps of Bama. The star was a grandson or granddaughter (do you know the difference?) of the same gator that Bear Bryant wrassled and pinned when he was 10 years old.

I believe Kevin is a bi-fan. He goes both ways.
GB | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 8:03 pm | #

GB, I'm laughing my bee-hind off right now!! That was excellent!
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 8:33 pm | #

Voice

It was an easy setup when you mentioned Kevin Bacon.
GB | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 9:34 pm | #

Hope you didn't get crabcake in your shorts.
GB | Email | Homepage | 02.26.08 - 11:23 pm | #

This guy was my neighbor in Georgia. He used to drink a lot of decaf hazelnut coffee. I thought it was weird.
Asa | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 1:47 am | #

GB,
Crabcake contained. Barely.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 6:33 am | #

Jade,

I've shown that EDSBS Tenuta thing to no fewer than 100 people, and 97 of them wonder what the hell I find so funny.

I like the part of the post with the diagrams of plays, with Tenuta's response to Charlie's plays always being sending 11 guys on a blitz.

All kidding aside, I think Erik04's right about the importance of the potential upgrade in linebacker play.

Here's hoping San Diego State is a true warm up game. It'd be nice to get out of the gates with a W.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 9:54 am | #

...somewhere, there has to be accountability for last season's obnoxious losses...if not...then you'll be looking at a string of years of .500 ball...no matter how well the recruiting looks on paper. It is fact that the ND offense was 119th out of 119 Div. 1 teams in 2007...and common knowledge that the offensive line looked like a high school JV team by comparison to every 2007 opponent's defensive rush...embarrassing does not cover the depth of my feelings while watching the stuffed runs and porous pass blocking...where we were also last...after Troy State...and what has been done to "fix" these issues?...well, we graduated some of the problems and now we are hoping for the best...but who coached these seven pillars of sand?...where does Latina's responsibility start and end?...does he become a better coach because he is a year older?...because Ty's recruits are almost filtered out of the system?...some of us would enjoy at least a modicum of discussion on why and what the hell happened to ND football last year...not business as usual and handing the play calling over to some backfield coach...am I pissed?...yes...but I'm more concerned that there are not only no answers...but no questions...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 11:34 am | #
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 11:40 am | #

Hal--

I read EDSBS all the time, and they've always poked fun at Tenuta, but I never really got the joke because I didn't follow him all that much. After I watched his presser last week, I understood it all. That is one scary man. A good thing in a defensive coach, but still scary.

Did you see this, by the way?
http://www.ndnation.com/boards/s...id=21857; d=this
Jade | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 12:28 pm | #

jim/redondo beach:

Name 1 team that played a harder schedule with as YOUNG/INEXPERIENCED a team as ND was last season? Make sure you consider the first half of the season.

Go ahead, check all 119 D1 teams.

ND's going to be young & inexperienced compared to the average this year. Does that give you any idea of how statistically out of place they were last season?

ND's going to be better this season. Bank on it. Will they be fantastic, no, of course not. But they will be markedly better than last year. Heck, go watch the GT sack video. ND's QB's in the starting game last year looked lost. Do you think ND will look that bad in the 2008 opener? Not if Clausen is healthy. I'd bet the farm on that, too.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 1:19 pm | #

...banal excuses...that will solve the problem...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 1:25 pm | #

...so will...asking a bunch of questions...on an internet...fan blog...
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 4:20 pm | #

"...who coached these seven pillars of sand?"

Nice. Ouch, but nice. Jim brings up some very fair questions. Are the ND faithful so unfamiliar with such futility that they aren't even equipped to ask the questions?

I know I'm not.

I'm in total denial about last year.

I even did a Bobby Ewing in the the shower one morning. No, not a Lester Burnham. Not a Patrick Ewing. A Bobby Ewing.

I also repeatedly watch highlights of the Stanford and UCLA games.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 4:21 pm | #

JimRB,

I disagree that any explanation of last season gets categorized under "excuses." And I disagree that the solution to many of these problems is to knee-jerk some coaches out of their jobs. We had a near-perfect storm of genuine issues that I'm not sure Parcells himself could have overcome last year.

If you think years like 2007 just don't happen at major schools, take a closer look at the Fla. schools. Specifically, look at Miami in the late 1990s, when their scholarship numbers were down in the high 60s liike ND's last year. They were unwatchable. But what happened a few years later, after the numbers got back to where they needed to be?

Now maybe you'd say, "But Weis should never had let this team's roster drop to that point." There's some truth to that, though I'd argue he's doing exactly what you need to do to build a dynasty: refusing to settle for padding a roster with marginal players. This is the long view, and sometimes it means taking a hit like the 2007 season.

That all said, the stakes this year are clearly high. Weis will either make last year look like an aberration, in which case I think we are on the cusp of a half decade of glorious football from our boys. Or all that we feared as we watched last year will be proven true, which means a lot of pain for everyone involved.

I hope, and believe, we'll be experiencing the former.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 4:57 pm | #

Jim does ask some very good questions, and some tough ones. However, I don't think the answer can be given these except for the Latina question. He should take the blame, and he should be canned. I think many of us are "hopeful" that things we'll be better because we saw a bit of success at the end of the year with the new kids. Of course, we played NC and Stanford. I think we'll be able to know a little more about what we're in for in the spring. Does that give us what we want now? No.

The other comments, that really do tie in to the question about the line, all have to wait until the spring game as well. But really, what does it do us to rehash the issues again. It's over...Let it go.

With that being said, is anyone else a little concerned we haven't heard anybody commit yet? I thought we had at least some rumblings of potential committments, but nothing so far as I know (but I am not necessarily in the know). Anybody know anything or how JR day went?
David | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 5:07 pm | #

jim, most fans have given the coaching staff a pass for last season and are waiting to see what kind of improvements are in store. The easier schedule should allow for a few more wins. If the Irish played a brutal, top 5 SOS kind of schedule again, I wonder what the results would be.
Gabe | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 5:07 pm | #

Joe Subway,

I can take it a step further: I still have the UCLA game saved on my TIVO from '06 and just to make myself feel better I will replay the final play with Brady throwing the touchdown pass to Samarzdjia and watching the look of utter dejection on Carl Dorrell's face! The painful memories of last year will fade eventually and all that will remain will be the great memories I have seen with the Irish over all the years.
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 5:12 pm | #

...it's not only the losses...but the depth of the losses...but go ahead and keep "whistling past the 2007 graveyard"...I guess there are no explanations...everything will "work itself out" in 2008...jeeze...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 5:30 pm | #

Domers,

Jim is right. Dismiss unaddressed problems at your peril.

GO IRISH,

I liked post-2006 MSU game - stunned players "guarding" Sparty. Jon L "Mr. MSU Meltdown" Smith's face slap was a bonus. I can't bag on Dorrell - UCLA stuffed the $emi-pro$.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 6:39 pm | #

That's right Jim, keep up the grousing, bemoaning, and bitching and keep calling for coaching changes because you have a say in such matters. Also, can you find a different phrase than your overused "whistling past the graveyard" remark? That one is a little tired.

For those of you that live in parts of the country having inclement weather right now, Jim is sitting in perfectly clear, almost 80 degree weather out here in Southern California and he is still in a crappy mood. Makes me wonder...
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 7:31 pm | #

Mr. Status Quo...I bet you are still firmly behind willingham - which is more than I can say for the majority of UW fans - and...who called for any coaching changes?...your jumping at conclusions...makes me wonder...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 7:42 pm | #

As usual, the excellent level of comebacks I have come to expect from you Jim. Almost as good as when you question my manhood. Awesome! I have missed your rants and pointed criticisms when it comes to the team and all your light hearted banter with other posters.
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 8:08 pm | #

Seriously, if you dont recognize the facts

- ND was the youngest team in D1 football last season
- ND played a difficult schedule that was front end loaded

Than what's the point?

You ask questions, but you refuse to accept the logical answers.

Now go ahead . . . . . tell me how you are smarter, more experienced, and more respected by people that make a living in the football industry than Charlie Weis . . .

There were problems last year that can be blamed on coaching, but I'm hard pressed to hold the current staff accountable as a result of the probation level scholarship talent Willingham left them with. 2007 was inevitable. Failure to acknowledge that, well that's akin to .

Could ND have been 4-5 or 5-4 if the coaching had been different? Maybe, but they still would have been a young team in a difficult schedule, and odds are there would be some ND fans still bitching and moaning.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 8:10 pm | #

...I doubt if your "manhood" is still in question...

...again...I didn't bring up coaching changes...but I find it interesting that the "buryyourheadinthesandgang" always gravitates to that position...

...as a follower of the Seattle Times UW football blog...there are distinct similarities between those that want to ignore any discussion for the reasons for the 2007 ND team collapse and the 2005-2007 UW willingham supporters...congratulations...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 8:20 pm | #

Jim,

you and I have had our little spat. While I did defend you earlier, saying you did have some good points/a valid points, what are your solutions to the past year and next year.

Of course, I don't dismiss what other posters are saying about youth and schedule, I understand your arguments. As you and I may disagree, I think a solid season under youngsters belts, easier schedule, more talent and more physical practices will help the team turn the corner, I also believe that Latina needed to get in the grill of some of these lineman and challenge their manhood. At the same time, he should have also sat down and did what the FSU line coach did against Clemson, which was sit down and ask, "what is are you seeing that is making things difficult". I don't deny he may have done that, we just didn't see it on tv and they usually show those things.

However, other than canning Weis, what would you like to see happen?
David | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 8:38 pm | #

I am sure someone will find a team with a younger average starter as well as a team that beat us with more 2 stars, etc. It really doesn't matter. Going back through the season, you had a true freshman starting at QB, RB, WR and three OL with no game experience trying to learn a new system over the summer. Not to mention we played 8 straight games against BCS teams to start the season. What more "excuse" do you need. Yeah, the line was sorry, but so what, they were playing against some pretty good defensive teams at the beginning of the year who caused problems against a veteran team the year before. I know Jim is passionate about ND football or he wouldn't comment as much as he does, but I think a dose of chill might be needed before axing anybody. Stability is the key to a program, not shipping off coaches at the first sign of weakness.

Does anyone ever think that maybe Weis's first two teams were pretty sorry too, but he may have actually coached them up. Everyone just assumes we had great teams. They seem to forget the abysmal performance of our teams in the two prior years. Maybe Weis is the answer, maybe not, but I think he has done enough for the spirit of ND that he deserves a few years to find out.

Lastly, go back and watch the games this season. Certainly GT, PSU, UM and USC were pretty much slaughters (Air Force too). However, we were still in the game late against Purdue and BC and should have won the game against Navy. A young inexperienced team with good players will lose the close games but eventually will win out. Just be patient and give the guy a couple of years before we second-guess every decision he makes.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 8:39 pm | #

oh, I don't think firing Weis is a good idea, contrary to what some may say, who ever some are. I just don't remember who said those things in the past.
David | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 8:40 pm | #

You people act like Corwin Brown will sit in the corner while Tenuta runs the defense. The truth is that Brown is the DC and he will run the defense. I doubt it will look anything like what Ga. Tech ran.

Brown took over a defense with less talent than what Minter had and less support from the offense than what Minter had and yet the defense improved. The team caused more turnovers and the secondary stopped giving up long touchdown passes.

Brown also proved to be the best recruiters on the staff and yet his reward is to be considered secondary to the linebacker coach. I doubt Brown stays at ND long if Tenuta is suddenly taking over the defense.
BobInVA | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 8:43 pm | #

...I have never brought up firing any coach...only that there be some accountability for what could have been the worst season in ND history...why were the losses so deep...have you seen the margins of the scores last year?...were there instances of quitting on the team/coaching staff?..if so why...and who was involved?...CW runs this team like a family-owned business where no one should pose questions that may be beneficial...this may work with a 9-3 team...but it falls short for a 3-9 team that could have easily lost to UCLA and Stanford...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 9:55 pm | #

Come on, Jim. You are either being unrealistic, or just like poking the monkey. I am not saying your questions aren't legit, but I think you know why things were so bad.

I think the media line on Charlie is a bit over-blown. That he is so arrogant, blah, blah, blah. I personally find Charlie's press conferences to be pretty enlightening on many aspects of the team. I don't think he is any more "secretive" than any other coach in the game. I think the fact that he steps up and basically says the losses were his fault shows he is not going to throw coaches or players under the bus. Do you really expect to hear him say "the prior administration left me with a big bag of crap, and I was unable to turn it into gold?" Of course not. Most coaches spew nothing but the same old PC nonsense and rarely say anything but "for the grace of God, this, etc." Over here in SEC country, you would think Vanderbilt and Ole Miss have split the last 10 straight championships, there is so much nonsense. (You might actually think they are good)

You are absolutely correct that he runs it like a family-business because it is. (insert ND-themed music here)

What good is blaming players for quitting, etc. publicly? After watching the Falcons stink it up this year, I can safely say the media pouncing on the tension between Crumpler/Hall/veterans and Petrino this year, did nothing positive to improve their performance.

Guess what, we may watch the games and pay for the tickets, but we do not get a seat in the coaches circle because of it.

Lastly, your questioning assumes none of those questions were asked in the coaches circle. I think we are a bit naive to imagine our novice football brains could come up with questions he and his staff haven't already addressed in a closed office.

While I agree it would be nice to hear an answer, I would love to know the inner-workings of all kinds of entities but don't consider myself an appropriate party to them.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 11:32 pm | #

Go Irish,

You are right about the weather today - it was fabulous and moods were light.

Jim/Redondo, I agree with a lot of your points - except regarding Stanford. I was there - we had the Cardinal, but the refs tried their very best to take it away.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 02.27.08 - 11:34 pm | #

Michael,
Excellent post. There are some questions that need to be answered in the inner-circle. Why do we as fans feel the need that the coaches need to publicly answer to us. Latina has to answer to Charlie, that is it, Weis took full responsibility for last year. Enough said. We were beaten badly because we were inexperienced and played some pretty good teams early on and could not build any type of momentum due to success. You could go down the list and see that we got manhandled by some good teams and we were inexperienced against the likes of PSU, Purdue, MSU and BC. We dont have the talent level of USC, yet and Michigan proved it wasnt a bad team. Let last year go, look for improvement and cheer the Irish on, forever.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 7:19 am | #

...wow...I get it...don't question...you may not want to hear the answer...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 1:01 pm | #

If not firing coaches, what "accountability" do you propose? 50 lashes? 20 laps? You have no idea what kind of ultimatums CW has placed on his assistant coaches this year. Do you want him to say to the media "I take full responsibility for last season, but I told our assistnat coaches if we don't win the national championship this year they're all getting canned."?

You ask a million questions that don't have answers and act like you know what the answers should be. TELL US. Or stop asking rhetorical questions that everyone has already heard seventeen times.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 2:17 pm | #

Jim.

Call Charlie up and ask him your questions. See what he says. Then you can report back here first hand what happened last year. You are the one who thinks we have the right to know, so go to Weis and ask him the questions. None of us obviously know the answers or we would have answered them by now. The coaches office numbers are posted on the UND website, so just pick up the phone and call him. I am sure he would be happy to talk to a knowledgable fan such as you.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 3:39 pm | #

...true fans don't ask questions...? Actually...the exact opposite is true...especially after a once storied football program's worst season in history...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 7:16 pm | #

But the question still remains Jim: What would you do with the information if it were to be given to you? Is it going to make the pain of last season somehow more palatable?

If Coach Weis fired every assistant, changed the type of cleats the team wears, personally designs the workout regimen, tutors every player, himself, and decides to start running a triple option offense, am I going to cheer any more or any less than I do now? No. I cheer for the players and the team every game no matter what their record was last season or how they played the week before. I screamed my lungs out just as much during Davieham as I do now. I am still as inconsolable after a loss now as I ever was. Because I root for the team and the University of Notre Dame no matter what. If that makes me part of your so called "burymyheadinthesandgang", then so be it.

Excuse me, I need to go whistle past a few graveyards!

GO IRISH!!!
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 7:46 pm | #

...you're already doing it...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 9:43 pm | #

And...still, you...don't...answer the...questions asked...of...you...
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 10:18 pm | #

Domers,

The "Youth" and "Homer Lyle" excuses for 3-9 are being stretched. For any major power to go 3-9 is inexcusable. Other big (not nece$$arily clean) teams get through it without choking v. a 40 year doormat. Even Davieham and Faust kept up their end and CW & Co. dropped the ball. We all know "Homer Lyle" helped mightily.

Here is my $.02:

1) The OL was pathetic all season. They just LOOKED better v. 3rd rate teams late in the season. MOE was really: Major O-L Errors. Getting stoned on run plays, total disarray in prot.

Blame for 1: Latina (pass), Mendoza & Latina (run).


2) 2nd straight year @ combine ND OL was putrid at the press. IMO, this backs up why we have "drunk" drive blocking - you never know which DL/LB will crash the run play (OL whiffs).

Blame for 2: Mendoza. Kinetic energy goes with the square of velocity, and linearly with mass. Work on muscle power, not mass, moron!

3) 2nd straight year of obscene FG proficiency. Cost us the Navy streak.

Blame for 3: Polian.


4) ST by committee was a horrific way to help in an area CW thought was weak.

Blame for 4: CW

Bottom line is: ND is not developing players in these areas well. OL has gotten worse every single year. FG kicking is lower than whale s _ _ _. Few veteran players are showing significant strides year over year - OL, K. That means the desire to dominate and work hard (ala Quinn, Laws) is NOT universal at ND! CW does NOT inspire the players at the emotional level like a Holtz, Rockne, etc. CW instructs on an intellectual level that is less effective at: A) college level and B) Post-modern Uber-dial-a-temptation 21st century wireless & satellite USA. Put A & B together with CW's snoozers and you have a time bomb working. Sorry, it already went off in 2007.

I have pushed for Polian to go. 1) I have seen no evidence he can develop a top COLLEGE FG kicker. When you would rather go 4th and 5+ yards v. a chip shot FG - I look for the ST coach to go. I also think Polian as LB coach in a 3-4 was ridiculous. Tackling was a joke. At least CW made the move to JT there.

I have pushed for Latina to go. OL has gone downhill since 2005. Pass protection breakdowns of epic proportions. No development, no execution. 'Nuff said.

I have pushed for Mendoza to go. Garbage OL combines, downhill "finesse" blocking since 2005.

I strongly doubt we will see much improvement in these areas in 2008. ST should pick up the most cuz Polian won't have LB's to run into the ground anymore and no ST-coach by committee.

Just remember, I was bitching about Minter since he was hired and BEFORE the 2006 season and the #2 "trap" ranking. It took an effing year for everyone to figure it out and join the Godforsaken bandwagon. Minter, hire-to-fire was pure misery to discuss.

One or two of the aforementioned underachieving coaches will likely move on after this season. CW is just buying them another year with the ("New & Improved" slogan) coaching shuffle.

We need a common "nasty" attitude before we see anything resembling that on the field. Nothing points to CW firing up the troops. Another sub-standard season will just confirm the pessimists were right. Sorry.

IMO. 2008 ain't gonna be but 2 or 3 games better - depending on our cupcakes. D may surprise. OL and ST's likely won't.

Glad some Domers still have faith in the staff. IMO, the ones in question haven't earned it.

Sorry (long post) & Sorry (prediction)
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 02.28.08 - 11:57 pm | #

...thank you, lost boy, for answering some of my concerns...but...don't you know that your elucidation is not admired - nor will it be tolerated - by the "never question the ND football program...everything will be fine" contingent? How dare you!!...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 10:29 am | #

Him

I have the same questions as you. Right now I do not have a good idea of how ND will do. I think the Lost Boy gave a good synopsis of the current case. I think the ducks are lined up for a good year but the million dollar question is whether CW and his crew will deliver. He has the recruits. He has the coaches (on Defense at least). I still question if he should have gotten rid of Latina, Polian and Mendoza. However, with the current change in CW delegating responsibilities, we will be able to pinpoint exactly which coach is responsible. As I have said before we have the potential to go 10-2. However, if the players are not coached up then they could go something like 5-7 or anywhere in between. I don't think we will have any idea of what to expect until sometime in Sept. and probably later. Until then we can only hope. I would not go betting the farm in Vegas on this team though.
GB | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 11:49 am | #

I understand Jim, that being in economics, you always look for reasons and trends in statistics and results. But why do you feel like you are entitled to some of the information you are asking relating to coaching decisions and accountability?

I hope you find the answers you are looking for. I am going to let it all go and move on. Notre Dame football brings me too much joy and happiness (yes, even when they lose I find the joy in the games. And, yes, I still get excited when I see those players coming out of the tunnel in their gold helmets) to have it be affected by the negativity I have seen exhibited here.

I will cheer for them even if they are 0-12 and I will still wake up every football Saturday as excited as when I was a child because God has blessed us with this football team which represents the greatest University on the face of the planet.

God bless and GO IRISH!!!!!!!!!!
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 11:55 am | #

...your unwavering and unquestioning "loyalty" has damaged any credibility you may have once had...you are not a fan...you are a sycophant...and do no service to the football program nor the university...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 12:31 pm | #

We do no wervice to the university or the football team because we are loyal? Now that makes a lot of sense. Jim do you question your government as much as you question your coach? And if someone doesnt question their government does that make them UnAmerican? I wish that I had enough time on my hands to have nothing else to worry about than the state of Notre Dame football. Lost Boy is an expert because he made some uninformed musings. How does he know that Polian is responsible for developing kickers? Maybe he should apply for the strength coaching job. I believe that Weis said he is responsible for the poor performance last year. That is what he did his self-evaluation for over December. I believe on of the biggest problems that we witnessed last year was not being prepared for game speed because we didnt practice at game speed during the week. I believe there was improvement made as the season progressed but the lack of contact and full go practice during the spring and summer put us way behind. Three games into the season was not the time to start full contact practice, but it helped. We are not privy to anything that Charlie has told his assistants in the past or present so we really do not know where blame is placed. Maybe Mendoza runs a S&C program that CW wants, maybe Weis needs a new strength philosophy. Maybe the blocking schemes that CW was using puts us at a disadvantage tying Latinas hands. I think the answer to all of your questions is that the responsibility falls directly on the shoulders of the head coach. The other coaches are only coaching to his directives. I believe Weis saw the error of his ways and is making the changes that he thinks are necessary.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 12:57 pm | #

You are absolutely right Jim! By gosh, you hit the nail on the head! Unquestioning and unwavering loyalty can, in no way whatsoever, be of any service to anyone. Especially a sports team. Only bitter, cynical, narcissists can possibly benefit the university and aid in the advancement and betterment of the team.

Oh, and in response to you sycophant statement, how exactly does cheering for a sports team make one servile or a fawning flatterer? Cheering for the team is not necessarily giving flattery. I know I am not as educated as you nor do I have as amazing of a football intellect, but I was hoping you could enlighten me because your choice of insults interesting. However, I was pleased to see a slightly more intelligent level of insult over previous posts of yours. Nice job. Glad to see your subscription to Reader's Digest is paying off. The "word power" section is great!
GO IRISH!!! | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 1:03 pm | #

Doug,

"Lost Boy is an expert because he made some uninformed musings."

Anyone outside the direct employ of our Lady is an outsider and will muse "uninformed" by definition.

Mea culpa of observing negative trends that do not self-correct. I call 'em like it is. Hence the repetition and call for certain coaching changes.

"How does he know that Polian is responsible for developing kickers?"

Polian = STeams coach. FG K = STeams. Kickoff = STeams. Sorry to muse so uninformed-ly.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 1:50 pm | #

Coaching special teams is not coaching kickers. It is coaching coverage and blocking assignments, installing returns and kick block plays. Caoaching special teams does not include coaching kickers and punters on their craft. So maybe you arent so informed. Polian is not a kicking coach he is a special teams coach. Tell me lost boy, how do you develop a kicker?
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 2:14 pm | #

Besides the fact that Polian wasnt the special teams coach last year, they were coached by committee, a mistake that CW once again took responsibility for over the winter.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 2:17 pm | #

Well, if we cut through all the pissing and veiled personal attacks, I think we can say this:

Next year's success or failure is going to hinge on how the o-line and kicking games improve.

I happen to think the problems with the o-line was more a numbers issue than a coaching issue, but I guess we'll start to see next year.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 2:47 pm | #

Agreed, Hal. That is where Weiss needs to start and I believe he will do that.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 4:41 pm | #

Doug, someone's gotta coach the kickers. If it's not Polian (the special teams coach), then who?
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 4:56 pm | #

Doug,

How to develop FG kickers in 1 easy step: Learn how ND (Polian??) turns "Can't miss" HS prospects into shank artists AND DO THE OPPOSITE!

CW is an f-ing genius to NOT have someone on the FG kickers! "Hey, Polian, this in Navy week, forget the FG kicking! You're on LB tackling duty, homeboy!"

In a weird way, FG kicking by . . . (auto-pilot) would explain a lot. . .

I still think "Homer Lyle" did it! (insert horror film sound here!)
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 02.29.08 - 9:00 pm | #

I have observed the comments made over the last few days and continue to find the venom directed at CW interesting and, based on history, somewhat misplaced. Some historical perspective.

1. For those who long "for the good old days" of Leahy, Ara, Devine and Lou, take a hard look at how many more scholarship players they had vs. today when teams are limited to 85 scholarship players. And even as great as Leahy was, he loses great players and struggles to go .500 in 1950. If you do not believe this limit makes a huge differnce, ask yourself where Virginia Tech, Oregon, Boise State, Hawaii and Illinois, just to name a few, were in the 1970's and 1980's. As Bear Bryant used to say, great players make great coaches. Lastly, if you want a real laugher, read about Knute Rockne in 1928-loses 4 games and the ND fans want him fired. He then proceeds to win 19 straight.

2. For those of you at ND or fans in the Ara/Devine era, you will remember
the 1964 USC game, the 1972 Missouri game (a loss at home)after Missouri gave up 63 the week before, the loss at home to an absolutely horrible Purdue team in 1974, the disaster in LA in 1974, the loss at home to MSU in 1975 9ND fans wanted Devine fired after this game and replaced with Don Shula), two consecutive losses at home in 1978 with Montana as QB and no points scored! How about Lou? In 1987, gets blown out at Pitt, in 1990, leads PSU at home by 14 at half and blows the game? How about 1991-leads Tennesse by 31 at home and blows the game? How about 1994 when several great players graduate and he gets blown out by Colorado in a bowl game ND should never have been in? How about Air Force at home in 1996?? Yes, these were great coaches who consistently fielded competitive teams (unlike the 2007 Irish) but in, at least Ara's case, against far weaker competition than Weis has faced (go back and take a hard look at Ara's record against top 10 teams--you will be unpleasantly surprised). In Weis' first two years, ND was not competitive in arguably only three games OSU, Michigan in 2006 and LSU in 2007. How many other teams in the U.S. were competitive against these three? In 2006, he did it with a RB converted to an LB. You saw ND crater against OSU and LSU in the second half primarily because of depth issues.

The points are, 2007 was not ND's worst season ever, it was more excusable than some people think, CW did a poor job of coaching but blamed no one but himself, he recruited a class that on paper is one of ND's best in at least the last 20 years and a third consecutive top 10 class (when was the last time that occurred?), ate some "humble pie" and made a series of changes that appear excellent.

Finally, here in Penna,, Paterno has been PSU's head coach for 42 years. He has won the NC twice--in 1982 and 1986, an average of once every 22 years. How many ND fans would find this acceptable??
Lush | Email | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 7:37 am | #

Lush,

Be careful or you will be branded a sycophant. Don't use any facts unless they are to bash CW. Make sure you delve deeply into the questions that need answered. Don't take CW for his word that he is to blame for last year. Above all, make sure that you impart your vast coaching knowledge to a man who has done this all of his adult life and coached at the highest level.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 10:48 am | #

Doug:
Thanks for the warning. For the life of me I do not know what I was thinking injecting facts into this debate. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 1:06 pm | #

Lush

I have been an ND fan since the Kuharich years. My mom has been to virtually every ND home game from 1948-2000. Both of us agree that we have never seen an ND team with such ineptness. You want facts? There has never been an ND team with this many blowouts in one year. Even Kuharich's teams were competitive in loses except on rare occasions. Just look at the bottom of offensive and I mean offensive stats from the NCAA and you will find that ND dominated in 2007. ST stats are also in the lower half. D is mediocre. It was not only the number of loses but the depth (blowouts). They were only competitive in the wins and the Navy game. That is 4 competitive games and 8 blowouts.
GB | Email | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 4:11 pm | #

GB,

No fair! You are only allowed "ROSE COLORED" facts to support your (non-Kool Aid) assertion that a 3-9 team was inept.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 8:36 pm | #

Lost Boy

Reality hits hard for some people. In fairness to Lush and Doug, I am optimistic about this coming season. There are some positive things on the horizon like Tenuta and the new recruits. If and that is a big IF, CW and the boys can get the O line problems and the ST problems taken care of then we can expect a good season.
GB | Email | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 9:28 pm | #

My dad went to a lot more games than my mom. He is not rolling over in his grave. He said he is not coming out until the O line improves.
GB | Email | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 7:57 am | #

Give Kucharich the talent the 2007 team had and you can couunt on perhaps one finger (yes, not plural) the number of wins he would have had.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 03.02.08 - 8:15 pm | #

Lush

The talent on this team was not that bad. The lowest rated class Ty had was something like 32 and the others were something like #5 and #28 along with Cw's class at #8. I could be a few off in the rankings but it is in the ballpark. If the coaches coached to even mediocre standards, then the team should do no worse than the lowest rated class or #32 in the country if the numbers are right. If I recall, ND was rated something like #96 in the country at the end of the season. You can say that they were young, inexperienced, etc. but no way should they have been that low. There is a chasm as big as the Grand Canyon between the quality of recruits, supposed quality of coaches and the end result of being THE worst offensive team in the country.
GB | Email | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 1:22 am | #

..."2007 was not ND's worst season ever, it was more excusable than some people think..."

...is this the fact of which you speak?...jeeze...talk about whistling past the graveyard...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 6:25 pm | #

Jim:
Sorry but 2007 was not ND's worst season ever. Buy some books on ND football and do some research.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 7:10 pm | #

Lush

It was not the worst season ever as far as records go. Terry Brennan had one season of 2-8. I think Kuharich and Devore had similar records. However, the 2007 season was the worst as far as ineptness goes. Kuharich's, Faust, Brennan and Devore's teams looked like the 2007 NY Giants compared to ND's HS team.
GB | Email | Homepage | 03.03.08 - 8:34 pm | #