Does anyone else feel like they got kicked in the nut pieces? 1-8. I'm dreading explaining this one away. I don't know what can be fixed. Unfortunately I don't think firing Charlie is the answer, though many may think that would be the perfect response. Oh, and we did own the Navy for 43 years. No one else gets more scrutiny than us. Such is the life we lead.
Pete | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:00 pm | #

Bad coaching calls, an OL that still cannot block at critical times and a defense that was NOT prepared for this game.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:06 pm | #

why not try the fg at the Navy 24 at the end of regulation? He told the kicker that he is not worthy. Why have him on scholarship if you're not goiing to use him. He is a moral killer. So much for the genius. If you kick and miss you still play OT. He doesn't understand college football and he really should go.
He just is not a good college football head coach, end of story
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:09 pm | #

Pete, have you been watching us play the entire season? Did you watch the game today and that moronic call by Weis to not kick the field goal? You are crazy if you think we should not fire Weis. Weis is a MORON and needs to go asap!

ND MBA 06
Kirk | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:12 pm | #

Weis blew the game several times with bad play calling, preditable play calling, and at time bizare play calling.
Mackay Rippey | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:15 pm | #

Doh! predictable
Mackay Rippey | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:15 pm | #

Congrats, Middies - you deserved it. I think we should play these guys the first game every year because until we play Navy, the frosh don't know tough.

Staubach, Kaipo-Noa Kaheaku-Enhada.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:16 pm | #

Fire him and get whom? No one would want to come. It would crush our team even more to screw up the coaching situation again. It just doesn't make sense for the program. I still think Charlie deserves some time. The barn was empty for this year and he has filled it, but they're still too young - i.e. stuck in high school where you can get away with being lazy and still own your opponent.
Pete | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:16 pm | #

charley live

http://www.nbcsports.com/portal/ ...nextfmt=default
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:18 pm | #

True, we can't (and shouldn't) get rid of Charlie yet, but, man, does he have a lot to prove next year!
Mackay Rippey | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:21 pm | #

Why didn't Armando play the whole game? Astounding. Aldridge had a lot of yards, but he's SLOW. And not going for the field goal. Disgusting. Charlie has made some horrendous decisions this year.
Rob | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:21 pm | #

now he's goin on about using two qb's,
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:23 pm | #

Pete,

Careful you don't excuse a loss to NAVY on youth and an "empty barn." This game was all Weis, and an absolute embarrassment.
Anon | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:24 pm | #

indy-

i think that's a fantastic idea.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:25 pm | #

they ain't that young,

the punchline:

i'm f'kn de custard.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:26 pm | #

Expect two more losses lad. Air Force and Stanford.
I’m not sure Charlie can pick up the pieces from this loss.
The team has to be down on his play calling. Pitiful.
Congratulations Navy.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:26 pm | #

Good riddance to that streak.
Charlie will have it righted.
Congratulations Navy.
Somewhere "mission' is pi$$ed off. Hah!
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:27 pm | #

I knew it would be a long day when it was announced that Evan Sharpley owns a pair of pink shoes. Oh, well. It's just a football game, right? I'll be sure to care more if they ever become good, though. ; )
Fighting Binny | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:29 pm | #

Time to pass the bong, jim masterson.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:29 pm | #

Didn't Weis come in talking about how important Notre Dame tradition is (was)?
Mackay Rippey | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:30 pm | #

Tradition never graduates...

it just gets sunk by the Navy.
Vichy Government | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:31 pm | #

Charlie stated in the presser that he didn't kick the field goal in the 1st quarter (and went with the subsequent fake, which failed) and the field goal in the 4th because both were into the wind and that during practice and pregame our kicker couldn't make those kicks. He said that the kick during the 4th could only take place if we had gotten within a certain yardage, and we didn't, so he went for it instead.

Interestingly, Charlie also said he doesn't care about the streak - he's just pissed that he couldn't win the game for Hughes. He says that's all he really wanted from the game today. I can't disagree with that notion, but it still doesn't satisfy me to hear him say that. Maybe it's because he's also so calm, rational, and unaffected in his pressers - he never seems to show passionate disappointment or great elation. This game was horrible, and he seems to not get that.
PK | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:39 pm | #

I don't have a problem with Charlie not going for that field goal. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Walker BADLY miss one from a shorter distance earlier in the game? He's only kicked 4 field goals all season. I wouldn't have confidence in him either...
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:40 pm | #

Didn't go for the field goal 'cause the kicker showed during warm-ups he couldn't make one from that distance.
Jim Kress | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:40 pm | #

If he can't coach well, he could at least be gracious. How hard is it to say "we congratulate the Navy team and their fine coach; we have to get better." Instead we get "we lost the game, I don't care about . . . " He's always been a jerk, and now he's a jerk that can't be Navy. Here comes Air Force.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:42 pm | #

We lost this game because we couldn't stop the option. Last time I checked, Charlie wasn't calling the defensive plays. Oh, and Sharpley making dumb plays and fumbling the ball didn't help- but I can't really put that one on Weis either...
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:42 pm | #

how do you not have a kicker on your team that can hit it from 40 yds out? and they've really only attempted 4 all year? thats nuts
poopmonster | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:43 pm | #

I am embarrassed by Weis' lack of class. I can't stand to a have a jerk as coach. And I can't stand Jimmy Clausen either. I don't care that he didn't play today, this kid is all about himself and will bring nothing but trouble to this program.
anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:50 pm | #

the odds of a kicker making a play are greater than the lousy offense making one, because there it takes many people to get the play off and they have shown no ability to do that at all. none.

here's the thing about the "youngness"--many teams have mostly freshman and sophmores and they don't look like this. Weis' job is to teach kids how to play. and he isn't doing that. that's why we are losing. he was fine with Ty's players because they already had fundamentals. These players dont and that's his fault.
anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:52 pm | #

Yea,it's so unclassy having your entire staff and team honor Navy's Alma Matter. I'm sure that's what he was going for when he implemented that rule. Don't be an asshole
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:52 pm | #

He's an asshole. He has to face the music when it comes to criticism. That is part of his job. Not answering questions with "I don't care!" Quit acting like a little toddler boy pretending to be tough. He reminds me of george bush.

He ought to take a page out of Joe Torre's book instead of Billy B. Except it's becoming more and more obvious BB was the architect of those Super Bowl wins, not Weis.
anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:56 pm | #

(A) Losing to Navy; (B) Giving up 46 points to Navy; (C) I rest my case, Charlie must go. Broken coaching, broken system. End of story. Next season, ABC: Anyone But Charlie.
Bob | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:57 pm | #

how does honoring the alma matter affect the class of his press conference?
mike b | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:57 pm | #

If you didn't see this coming, you were a fool. Even the Pope took Navy and gave the points.

Mediocre coaching, mediocre talent, questionable desire.....

Hey! It had to end some time. Although we may lose to both Air Force and Stanford, et. al., things can't get worse than they are right now. I remember being at the last game Gerry Faust coached. As the game ended and ND lost to LSU, the sun came out. It signaled the dawning of a new age, as Lou Holtz came on board. I sort of feel the same way about this loss. From here we will have to turn the corner and begin anew. I almost feel like this had to happen before things would get better. The sun WILL rise tomorrow. The team WILL get better. Once these boys decide that they can actually do it, they will start winning games. Granted, we may be 9 months away from that point. But, I am still optimistic! Foolish? Maybe. But, optimistic, Yes!
Big Tobacco | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:58 pm | #

And I am oh so tired of the "Fire him and get whom?" reply. Give us all a break. ABC would be better: Anyone but Charlie. Time to move on.
Bob | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 7:58 pm | #

I disagree that *anyone* would be better...but for folks that think so, who do you suggest be hired? Is George O'Leary still available?!
BP Domer | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:03 pm | #

The comment was in reference to the on field question just as the game ended, not whatever comments he made in his press conference (I didn't watch it, so I have no idea what he said).
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:03 pm | #

he mentioned kicking in the warmups, wasn't that 4 hours earlier, was the wind still the same? would adrenaline of a game winner add 4 yards to a kick? too many numbers with this guy
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:04 pm | #

Charlie's first words to the media were classless. They should have been congrats to Navy, not "they scored two more points." What a punk this guy is. It isn't the media's fault his playcalling and coaching abilities stink. I was raised to treat everyone with respect. That includes the press. They are his portal to the recruits and parents he is ostensibly trying to impress.

Perhaps we should move on. If we are all defending ND to people by telling them how we are different, we are about more than football, we are about academics and integrity...It's hard to do that when your leader has no dignity.
anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:05 pm | #

Anonymous, you should go post somewhere else. Weis only drove Robert Hughes home personally, on Thursday and sat with his family. I dont know the many teams that have mostly freshmen and sophomores that dont look this bad. I also agree with, NavyJoe, why is no one, no one saying anything about Corwin Brown and his inability to call a game that could stop Navy on offense. Even Minter was able to do that. I hate that we lost to Navy, but I still have to go to work on Monday, and my paycheck wouldnt have been anymore if we won, and it wont be any less now. Many are screaming for Charlie to run the ball on the two point conversion and then when it gets stuffed, say stupid call. Our OLine got outplayed on the XP, we lose. Sharpley definitely isnt the answer at QB and for anonymous to say that Clausen is a punk and all about himself, well he is still here, he didnt transfer since he hasnt started. I dont know why Weis didnt kick at the end of the game, he has to live with that. I didnt agree with the call, but I am not being paid to make those decisions. This loss could cost us a lot, but maybe it doesnt either, we will just have to wait and see how it all pans out.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:05 pm | #

An earlier post said it best-the biggest problem for ND today is that the defense was NOT prepared for Navy's offense.

Anon--you are becoming very boring.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:05 pm | #

Doug:
Thank you for being, intelligent and civil. Anon colud learn a lesson from you.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:07 pm | #

seriously, now you are blaming the DC? desperate measures in desperate times i guess
poopmonster | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:08 pm | #

Nothing desperate monster, but we never figured out how to stop them, who has that responsibility?
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:10 pm | #

Poopmonster- If a ship runs aground, the captain is relieved...but so is the navigator. Your moniker is so clever, I figure you can pick up on my analogy, but here's a hint: Charlie is the Captain, Corwin is the Navigator
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:10 pm | #

Lush - I said this game was on Weis, and was an embarrassment. Where, exactly, is the lack of civility in that?

There are few things more pathetic than self-righteousness on a college football message board. Get a clue. Thanks.
Anon | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:11 pm | #

Corwin Brown did NOT have ND's defense prepared. PERIOD!!
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:12 pm | #

Charlie just needs to hire an offensive coordinator. Charlie's an awesome recruiter, and that's HUGE. We haven't had that since Lou. He proven this year that he needs help with preparation and (cough) playcalling. He needs a good COLLEGE-experienced OC that he can learn from. And maybe when we get really good and that OC moves on to become a head coach somewhere, Charlie can takebackthe offensive reins.
Rob | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:12 pm | #

Anon:
Go back and read your posts e.g., "He's an asshole". That's civil? Get real!!
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:13 pm | #

Lush - I'm boring?!? Your M.O. all season has been to blame EVERYONE but Weis. There's nothing wrong with admitting he's not doing a good job. Sure, there's plenty of blame to go around, but good lord, get your head out of the sand.
Anon | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:13 pm | #

Lush... I'm really tempted to tell you to go f*ck yourself. Really, if you disagree so much with the use of the f-word, go comment somewhere else. It doesn't make us lowest common denominator. It just reflects how frustrated we are. And that frustration is a function of how much we fucking love ND football.

Mkay?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:15 pm | #

Anon:
Go back and read your posts e.g., "He's an asshole". That's civil? Get real!!

Criticizing his play-calling is one thing (plenty to criticize today). Calling him a "punk" as well, is another. What next, the obligatory fat joke?

Criticize away, but do so with a bit of civility and intelligence. Not for his sake, but for yours.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:15 pm | #

What Doug, I should go away because I think Charlie is a jerk? Interesting theory. When someone invites you to "bring it on" and "take your shots" are we not allowed to bring it then? Dissenters not allowed? Sorry, this is the real world.

if you followed Clausen and his family during all their kids' careers you would understand my alarm. He and his website were obnoxious and took self-promotion to a new level for a high schooler. I was hoping he would learn something from the team and perhaps he will. That remains to be seen. I do know it was a mistake for Charlie to take a rookie QB with injury problems and throw him into this mess, like he did earlier this year. I was hoping that was not the sign of desperation it turned out to be. Charlie has no clue right now.
anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:17 pm | #

I don't think I called him an asshole. I might actually think he is, but I'm pretty sure I've consistently said he's an idiot. That's far different, and supported by LOADS of empirical evidence (see 2007 season). If you can find somewhere where I actually called him an asshole, fine, I'm sorry, but I don't think I did.
Anon | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:17 pm | #

I've never felt better and worse about a loss. Navy had it coming--they are a friend. If they wouldn't have beaten us now, the series would have been totally useless for years to come. Now at least it means something. Our season was screwed already. I know that sounds like a crappy attitude, but there it is.

I'm glad that for all the frothing at the mouth, Charlie will stay, he will grow, the team will grow, and things will get better. There's a whole lot of palaver going on, but we're just going to have to go through this perfect storm and show some class and perspective.
GraceHallChapel86 | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:18 pm | #

He needs a good COLLEGE-experienced OC that he can learn from.

Do you really think he would turn the keys over to someone else?

Look, it's not like he is a complete idiot. When he has a good number of experienced players, he can call plays that keep a defense off-balance and on its heels. When he has a lot of bad or inexperienced players, he hasn't shown that he can call plays to emphasize strengths and hide weaknesses. That's on him.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:18 pm | #

or you could grow a pair and stop posting as anonymous...it's not like we're blowing the whistle on fucking Blackwater here
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:19 pm | #

It is another if minor black mark against CW that his ineptitude has us turning on each other.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:20 pm | #

Anonymous to say the man lacks class and see some of the things he has done at the university and in his personal life, to read something on a kids website, you are the on who lacks class and if you are a graduate of this fine university, you do not represent her well.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:21 pm | #

That anonymous didn't call him an asshole. I did. He hasn't earned the right not to be treated like every other college football coach. His conduct has been questionable for all his years at ND, but the losing has really brought his true colors out. He is Bill Belicick minus the success as a head coach. Another guy who rubs people the wrong way.

I still don't see proof he has the skills a college coach needs. It's fine to get blue chippers, but they aren't ready to play, they need to be coached. Maybe he's like Ron Zook, one hell of a recruiter, jury's still out as a coach.

But I just said "hell" which marks me as the classless loser, right
anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:21 pm | #

Can we stop calling each other names and go back to calling Weis names?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:22 pm | #

Jim, that's like saying plucking those unsightly nose hairs is turning against yourself...
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:22 pm | #

CW needs to go, and it has nothing to do with "clas." Had we been looking for that, we would have hired Tom Clments over CW three years ago.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:22 pm | #

DJ, you're right. I doubt he'd hand over the reigns. But regardless, that's what he needs to do. Maybe with enough pressure, he would. He can be abrasive, but contrary to popular opinion, I don't think he's excessively arrogant.
Rob | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:24 pm | #

So JimK, you are saying we would be calling for Clements' head now, calling him classless and an asshole.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:24 pm | #

Oh Doug would you feel better if I put a name down? Now i have name? All good? You can still send me email spam no matter what I write on that line. People are not all good or evil. People do good things in their lives and are simultaneously total jerks. I would hope you could understand those shades of grey and notice that Charlie isn't a saint and he has said and done questionable things. I never, ever brought his personal life into this. Great that he was there for Hughes. But what coach wouldn't be? I think every coach would have done what Charlie did. That isn't the issue. The issue is why he treats people who are just trying to do their jobs like they are beneath him. It's part of the job. Answer the questions Charlie. Congratulate Navy. Eat some humble pie.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:26 pm | #

It is another if minor black mark against CW that his ineptitude has us turning on each other.

Um, the sins of the fathers (or the brothers) are not vested on anyone else. If we turn on each other, it's on us, and nobody else.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:26 pm | #

While I think we are in for better times, I do believe that Charlie needs to stop acting like he is the smartest guy in the field. The field goal attempt would have been the logical answer to that situation even if we would have lost. The problem with his high risk-low return play calling this year is that I believe it confuses the team even more. His risky playcalling requires a high talent base which I hope we get. Otherwise we´ll be losing more games with this type of palycalling.
David | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:27 pm | #

Anonymous:
You said it in your own words--"classless loser". And telling someone to go F himself shows how much you love ND football. Obviously, with logic like that you are not an ND alum.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:29 pm | #

Growing a pair, you have none. It is easy to spew your stuff here, where we are all anonymous. I would never call someone an asshole except to his face and if you dont have that big a pair then you should quit. You answer the questions too, Growing, if you no of this firsthand then let it out who you know who has had this done to them. It is always to shout accusations, especially when the one you are shouting at doesnt have a chance to respond.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:31 pm | #

Being head coach of ND is like managing the Yankees. I don't think Charlie thought it would be this hard. I still find it shocking that an offensive guru isn't making progress with this team. That's the problem. They can lose all their games but if they look like they are improving, then we can say they may be onto better things. Nothing I saw today makes me think better days are right around the corner. He looks confused. I wonder if he will get the benefit of the doubt if we are 1-8 this time next year. Ty would have been fired in the middle of the season.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:31 pm | #

Growing a pair-

we scored 44 points today

That IS improvement from this offense. Problem is, we gave up 46 (7 of which we can blame on the offense)...You give up 46 points (or 39), you deserve to lose.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:34 pm | #

David, I do agree with you on both points. I dont know what field goal attempts would have hurt on the two plays that we disdained them for absolutely nothing. The thing that bothered me about those play calls was that Weis always says he wants to give the team the best chance to win. Maybe he knew or felt something that we arent privy to, but I think we should have gone for the points.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:34 pm | #

Past the ramifications of any particular loss....the window on our opportunity to remain among the premier programs in CFB is closing. None of the kids playing today can remember when ND won a NC or had a player win the HT. WE may have perspective on the "storied tradition," but most of the rest of the country has forgotten it - or never knew it.

I've heard here on BGS people talk about the normal cyclicality of CFB, and that we are in a down cycle. Well, historically, we have had rough periods before, but nothing remotely like this.

Lest anyone think that we are bigger than the CFB/media coalition that rules things today, see the Rock Report on the BCS.

I'm saying that without a dramatic turnaround and a return to top-level competitiveness in a year or at most two, we are doomed to become an SMU - who used to compete at the elite level and hasn't been heard from since their death penalty twenty years ago. And the Ivy League and service academies once ruled the roost.

Our Nielsen's have dropped to about 2 million a game, according to the LA Times. Our diminishment in the BCS, if followed by a loss of the NBC contract, could add to the unattractiveness of South Bend to the modern recruit and put us on a shelf permanently.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:34 pm | #

Obviously, with logic like that you are not an ND alum.

I think you lack a grasp of the obvious then. Class of '92.

And I said I was thinking about telling you to go fuck yourself. Really, if you want to moralize, go to church.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:34 pm | #

"if you no of this firsthand then let it out who you know who has had this done to them. "

what does this mean doug? i would answer the question if I knew what the question was. You made this personal because you hated that I called Charlie an asshole. I take it you have never called anyone an asshole who wasn't in the room with you. You've never said that about any team or its coach. Good for you.

Your mistake was getting in my face because I criticized Charlie, by saying I should no longer post here. Fat chance of that now.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:36 pm | #

Right on anonymous.

So which team is worse off now, ND or Nebraska?
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:37 pm | #

You know if you had told me one day in 1997 that in 10 years there would be a Saturday where ND lost at home to Navy and Nebraska got 76 hung on them by Kansas (!) I don't know if I would have ever stopped laughing.

Until it happened today that is.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:39 pm | #

JimK,

The Nielsen ratings are only bad because we suck this year. I remember reading that in the past two years we've had the two highest Nielsen ratings ever for a college regular season game (both against USC). I believe the Michigan-Ohio St game later trumped that, but it's besides the point.

If your point was valid, we would not be the most recognizable name in College Football. We still are- it's not even a question, and it's not even close. We sell more memorabilia and we make more money. I defy you to go to any big city in the country, sit in an airport, and go an hour without seeing an ND hat or shirt. You won't be able to do it. We may not be the most popular team in a given area (the local team will beat us out), but we're in the top two or three. No other school can match that.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:40 pm | #

So which team is worse off now, ND or Nebraska?

Nebraska:

1) If you think losing to Navy is bad, how about giving up 73 to Kansas.

2) Their head coach is Dead Man Walking. I don't think Osborne will fire Callahan tomorrow or Monday, but it wouldn't shock me. Weis will not be fired this year.

And when he does go, the new guy is going to have to either drastically upgrade the recruiting, or change the type of recruit they bring in. Either way is going to take time, and in the meantime, they'll get clobbered.

3) They are losing recruits now. They just lost one to ND (okay, at this point comparing ND to Nebraska is like asking who is the best shortstop in Austria...who cares? They both stink). At least Weis has a Top 5 class, if he can hang on to it.

4) They're in the Big XII North, where they have to deal with K-State, a rising Kansas, Colorado, and Mizzou. And even if they win the North, Texas or OU clobbers them.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:43 pm | #

JimK i think you make valid points. If the tv contract goes away that would be terrible. In some ways i feel bad we even have it. And I never, ever thought I would say that. We don't deserve to be on tv every week right now.

ND and Nebraska both have a credibility program with players born in the 80s and 90s. Nebraska may have a worse problem because they really depend on keeping the best players in their state and region, and now even Missouri is getting better and stealing NB kids.

Things change too. New programs rise, like South Florida and Rutgers and even Kentucky. And by the way, I just can't believe Kentucky has more talented players than ND. I just can't.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:44 pm | #

Right, it was 76, not 73. Not much difference in the end...
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:44 pm | #

POLAND WAS MORE PREPARED FOR GERMANY IN 1939 THAN CHARLIE WEIS WAS FOR NAVY!


AND WE HAD 2 WEEKS TO PLAN!!
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:45 pm | #

yeah, Nebraska got arrogant when they fired Solich for his 9 and 10 win seasons. They should have known they were one bad coaching move away from this happening.

I do think their fans are infinitely more delusional than we are. They still have many, many fans who want to return to their old school offense. They can incorporate that into their offense, particularly if they are creative like Florida, but that won't fix things. Offenses are more pass dependent now. It also makes them feel better to have Osborne involved, but I doubt we would feel like having Lou Holtz pick the next coach would help.

I also wonder if Callahan will be fired tomorrow.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:47 pm | #

And by the way, I just can't believe Kentucky has more talented players than ND. I just can't.

I'll bet they have more of their seniors and juniors who they initially recruited, still around (as opposed to ND, whose 34th-ranked senior class has shrunk fairly significantly with transfers, injuries, and kids just quitting football). Even if UK's seniors and juniors weren't Top 25 classes, they could have improved with coaching.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:47 pm | #

I think it stinks the way this season has this community turning on itself. I have my opinions, but at this point it's clear just about any opinion about this football team is reasonable and warranted. Let's show some respect for ourselves and for each other.

I hate to see a good thing come to an end like the rest of you, but honor Navy.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:48 pm | #

Go back to Pitt vs Navy

1. Pitt defense plays too much 'nickel' defense
2. Navy scores big in OT with passes
3. Coach (Wanny) makes incredibly stupid call.

Very similar this afternoon
Peter | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:49 pm | #

I remember when the national media said UK's coach should have been fired. I don't know enough to know if he was really that bad, but I wonder if the quality of competition in the SEC brings everybody up. I think it helps with recruiting to know you'll play those teams.

I also think despite ND's horrendous season from hell, the big ten(11) should beg ND to join the conference. It would help them compete with the SEC.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:50 pm | #

I hate to see a good thing come to an end like the rest of you, but honor Navy.

It was a typical hard-hitting, courageous, never-say-die effort. Heck, they ALWAYS give that.

This time, it got them the win. And you know every Middie, and every grad, rightly feels like it was their win, too. Enjoy...
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:51 pm | #

How many times could Tom Hammond mention that Navy was running the "triple option"? I almost strangled myself if I heard him say that 1 more time.

Anyway, Latina, Polian, and Mendoza needs to go at the end of the season. I will give Charlie 1 more year. If substantial gains are not made, which I think they will be, then it will be time for both him and Kevin White to be gone.

I am so pissed right now.
true2notredame | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:51 pm | #

wow the frustration on this board is going crazy. ppl need to stop taking this personally, and chill out
poopmonster | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:53 pm | #

i've met a lot of asshole nd alums, not sure what the preaching is about.

things will get better because......

charlie has a long successful head coaching carrer to fall back on?

charlie has a long successful college career to fall back on?

the team has looked better every week?

just becuause you give a guy more time doesn't mean he will do anything with it. a lot of people don't make it in a lot of different areas. big money athletics is no different.
mike b | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:53 pm | #

True2, glad you brought up White. I almost forgot him. He's on par with the idiot that just got fired at Nebraska. His coaching decisions are awful.

If Charlie fails then perhaps they should go the Ohio State route and get a great young coach and give him a chance. They took a huge risk on a I-AA coach. Except if it were that easy everyone would do it.

Can you imagine what Penn St and Florida State are going to go through in the next couple of years? Their programs are getting worse as the two old pros try to beat each other's coaching records. Next coach has to follow a legend... And every year they wait to retire it will get tougher and tougher as the programs erode. They can't give a young coach a shot. And whoever is up next takes the heat for the way those two programs will fall apart.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:55 pm | #

mike b... that's my biggest frustration and fear about Weis. The team doesn't look better from one week to the next. These are young players (fresh and sophs) who should be making big strides, right?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:56 pm | #

Remember Ara was initially offered and turned down a 5 year deal because said if he can't do it in three then he can't do it.

Pencils down.
Times up.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:56 pm | #

I'll semi-support Weis one more year. One. He'll have his players and no more excuses. If he doesn't show some serious promise next year....dump him.

He has not shown even adequate play calling this year, there are no leaders on the team, and he just lost this game essentially by himself.

I can't even pretend to support him anymore.

One year. You're on the clock.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:57 pm | #

Good points, Navy Joe - but it turns out that according to the official organization that monitors sales of memorabilia, Texas has been #1 for the last two years and that we were #3 last year (I think USC was second).

I posted here a week ago a list of status points that are threatened or have disappeared. To wit:

We were ahead of Michigan as "winningest" program in terms of per centage until three years ago - a position we held for sixty years.

Our second to Michigan in number of wins is threatened by Texas, who is sixteen behind us and on an upswing while we are down.

The next player from USC or OSU who wins a Heisman will take that school past us as the all time leader - and we have been #1 in that since 1947.

The slippage of our memorabilia is just another indication. We CAN turn it around - but we HAVE to soon or slide into oblivion as far as elite CFB goes.

And I have never been of the camp that thought that CW could bring us there.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:57 pm | #

Gabby,

Jesus couldn't have won a national championship this year with our team...and that's with Moses coaching special teams.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:57 pm | #

Ara? Different era. Scholarship limits. Ubiquitous TV games. Can't compare now to then.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:58 pm | #

moses doesn't no shit about special teams though.
mike b | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:59 pm | #

Let's go ND BASKETBALL!!!
Frommy | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:59 pm | #

True2, glad you brought up White. I almost forgot him. He's on par with the idiot that just got fired at Nebraska. His coaching decisions are awful.

His non-football hires have been good. Excellent, in fact. But, as you would argue, and I would agree, football is the flagship, the most important...
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 8:59 pm | #

Navy joe, i'm just lookin for the biggest room in the house, room for improvement and i can't find it.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:00 pm | #

Jim,

I remember your post from last week. I think it's interesting, but on a personal level, I wasn't alive to experience most of those accomplishments, so I'd take the wins now over any success we've had in the past.

Regarding USC and Texas- they're the past two National Champions (i'm sure the numbers on Florida wouldn't have been out yet), so it's not very surprising that they would be one and two...
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:03 pm | #

I agree other sports are flourishing. Very pleased with hoops.

JimK I was suspicious of Charlie from the outset but I prayed he would work out. One thing this season has made clear, at least to me, is how good Brady Quinn was. I never doubted him for a second and I was disgusted with the way he was torn apart before the NFL draft. I couldn't take it personally though because when it comes to the draft nobody knows anything. These are people who made Akili Smith one of the top picks in the draft.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:04 pm | #

gabby,

time will tell. what got TW fired (other than the bad recruiting) was those two bad seasons back to back, with little to no improvement shown in the two years.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:04 pm | #

growing a pair,

i was just going to say the same thing. it's almost a shame that BQ never missed a game due to injury. I think he would have been appreciated more.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:06 pm | #

Good point, Navy Joe. I'm just concerned that the pre-eminence is in danger. We were never just another program, or even another elite one. We were the standard by which other were measured. I'd hate to lost that when we don't have to - a series of bad hires in coaching and ADs, however, put us in jeopardy.

And growing is right that CW did well with BQ - my one remaining shred of hope.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:07 pm | #

Brady will get his chance with the Browns. I felt like every time ND got blown out by an OSU or LSU, it was obvious that those teams had superior talent. Why was that BQ's fault??

Peyton Manning was vilified for losing big games at Tennessee too.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:08 pm | #

coniedering where shi number one receiver and running back are, I wouls BQ as pretty good.
mike b | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:09 pm | #

Navy Joe,

Hope you're right, i thought they would 've gotten better during 'this' season. so i'm a little skeptical that we'll be magically better next season.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:09 pm | #

Lmao!!!!!! Let me guess. Its ty's fault for letting the talent pool dip so low that he couldn't even get guys that could beat service academies? Its gotta be a terrible feeling to finally discover what the Usc, Osu, Um, Msu, Purdue and gawd knows who else fanbases have learned over the past 3 seasons. You were sold a pile of golden shit my friends. You have a Nigerian spammer as a head coach, just a complete fraud.
tOsu is Righteous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:10 pm | #

god i hate this keyboard: considering where his number one receiver and running back are, I would say BQ was pretty good.
mike b | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:10 pm | #

One thing we need besides a better coach, is a team leader. I don't see one on this team. No spark. I felt like not kicking the field goal took some of the fight and spark right out of the team. I think the offense thought they did their job (which may be a problem too, lol)
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:11 pm | #

OSU, i'd watch out if i were you. we may be playing service academies, but you're playing kent state. think that will serve you well at national championship time? (although personally I'd rather see you win than another obnoxious team from the south).
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:13 pm | #

Shouldn't Righteous be out burning a couch or getting teargassed or something?
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:14 pm | #

Better that ND's worst team in history enable Navy to break the streak. Let's just get over it. It's not like this is the biggest disappoint of the season.
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:14 pm | #

tOSU- what's OSU's strength of schedule this year?
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:15 pm | #

Don't be modest, Growing. OSU plays Kent, Youngstown State, and Akron - not to mention heavyweights in conference like Indiana. Schedule is not something OSU can talk about.

Coaching is.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:16 pm | #

It's not like this is the biggest disappoint of the season.

Then what is? No, seriously. What is?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:16 pm | #

Ugh. Losing to Navy is one thing. Losing to them in a year when they're THIS BAD is quite another ... what a disaster this team is turning out to be. If I were Dayne Crist or Omar Hunter - or Jimmy Clausen, Armando Allen, Kerry Neal, or James Aldridge, for that matter - I'd start shopping my talents elsewhere.
John | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:17 pm | #

Tonight I raise a glass to the Midshipmen of Navy.

Congrats, Men!

You have earned it.
Big Tobacco | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:19 pm | #

John,

we are worse than Navy. Statistically, the only reason we were favored was because it was a home game, and that whole 44 year streak of wins. It doesn't matter how bad they are this year- they were still better than us coming into this game.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:19 pm | #

oh god, youngstown state! I guess since Cleveland St. doesn't have a football team they aimed just a little tiny bit higher.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:21 pm | #

tOSU: Go jerk-off to McSweatervest.
true2notredame | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:25 pm | #

Is LSU overrated? Because they just gave up 34 to Alabama. They gave up more than 40 to Kentucky. Same with Florida. And other teams. Say what you will about Les Miles, his teams dont play any defense.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:26 pm | #

now now, we don't want him to go blind. I want him to be able to see his vastly overrated team get their asses kicked by LSU
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:26 pm | #

Always good to see Saban get beat. I still think he'd take the Michigan job if he didn't think it would kill him in recruiting.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:28 pm | #

We at NBC News are concerned with NBC Sports and Notre Dame Football. If CW is fired after this season,maybe it is up to us here at NBC News to choose the next head coach of the Irish. Here are our choices:

Chris Hansen of To Catch A Predator
Former NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw
The Today Show's Matt Lauer
Meet the Press host Tim Russert
Dateline reporter Keith Morrison
and me,Dateline host Stone Phillips.

We urge all readers of this blog to call their local NBC station,write to us at NBC or email us at www.msnbc.com and help us at NBC News keep Notre Dame Football on NBC.

I'm Stone Phillips. From all of us at NBC News,good night.
Stone Phillips,NBC News | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:29 pm | #

The biggest disappointment this season is being 1-8 and looking like a high school team. Losing to Navy this year shouldn't shock us.
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:30 pm | #

Well Stone I'm for Chris Hansen because you know there are plenty of predators playing for USC that he can go catch at halftime.

Methinks Carrol is ready to go back to the NFL before the sanctions hit.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:36 pm | #

And seriously, Weis is not getting fired. Please stop even thinking that's a possibility. His contract is ginormous.

Now I agree that his playcalling this year has been average at best. But remember why it was so successful in '05 and '06. Veteran players! That's all it is. Players that can understand a complex playbook and learn on the fly. These guys are like rookies in corporate america. No experience so each day they're just trying not to f*ck up.

Give Weis a year, man. If this happens next year he'll probably just walk away.
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:36 pm | #

He's got to turn those veterans into people who can play. His stock has fallen because of this, so right now he wouldn't slink back to the NFL. Next year we will see.

It is crucial though, because if they are average or worse those recruits will start being skeptical and NBC will drop us. And that would be terrible for a team with no conference.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:39 pm | #

Losing to BC in '93 and USC in '05, that my friends is "being gutted". Losing to Navy in '07...yeah, it's awful and I'm upset because now I can't watch ESPN for about 2 weeks. Oh well, one game closer to the end of the season.
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:40 pm | #

It's time for Charlie and his son to leave the sidelines. Tell them both to take their headsets off.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:42 pm | #

Yeah Felipe I feel your pain about ESPN. They can only cover one story every week so this week we'll be it. We got a pass in week one because of Michigan's utter humiliation.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:43 pm | #

Growing a pair -- If NBC dropped us it would be a blessing. At least, most of the country wouldn't watch this disgrace to the legacy of ND football. The Gipper must be rolling over in his grave.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:45 pm | #

Exactly Growing a pair. I canceled College Football Live on my Tivo a long time ago. How telling, Navy won after Lou gave them the ""pep talk" on Gameday. Bring back Lou and the option!
Felipe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:46 pm | #

Not sure the Gipper is in that grave anymore Big Mike...you watched the news lately??
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:46 pm | #

I thought maybe we would have a losing record this year, but not like this. This is a team that looks like they never played football before. On offense they don't even look like they know where they are. How is it possible? I'm still stunned.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:46 pm | #

Yea...the option. That's really gonna pull in those top recruiting classes these days.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:47 pm | #

we are worse than Navy. Statistically, the only reason we were favored was because it was a home game, and that whole 44 year streak of wins. It doesn't matter how bad they are this year- they were still better than us coming into this game.

Right on, NavyJoe. That was pretty much my point, though. A big upset in one of the last two years would have been one thing - I could've lived with that, and been genuinely happy for the Middies. Now I'm just depressed at how far we've fallen. The fact that the offense did so little - ONE SCORE IN THE SECOND HALF! - against that dreadful "D" is an utter embarrassment ...
John | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:49 pm | #

The biggest mistake this university ever made was pushing Lou Holtz away. Second biggest, hiring Bob Davie. He never, ever looked like an ND head coach.

Of course i pretend that the George O'Leary thing never happened.
Growing a pair | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:50 pm | #

Ha- I think we all got too used to winning these past two years. Damn those two BCS berths!
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:52 pm | #

What's stunning is the "Cult of Weis" mentality on this board. This team has posted a 1-8 record. 1-8 people, yet many members on this board think CW is a great coach. A genius, some still claim?

Isn't 1-8 the WORST starting record on any ND head coach? Isn't it?
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:52 pm | #

Quoting Pete at 7:00 pm-

"Oh, and we did own the Navy for 43 years. No one else gets more scrutiny than us. Such is the life we lead."

Um, ND is supposed to own Navy. Just like every other respectable school. Yes, 43 years is a long time, but it's a 43 year streak against *NAVY*.
jeremy | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:54 pm | #

We need to keep Weis. He is our future.
yojoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:57 pm | #

Big Mike,

I'm not a Weis Fanatic. But tell me what games he lost us this year. What would our record be if we had Lou Holtz, Pete Carrol, or Urban Meyer. Seriously. I look at this team and I do see some areas where the coaching can improve; of that, there's no doubt. But, I see just as many instances of us being entirely overmatched at key positions.

I don't think that CW is the greatest coach in the world, but even Bill Belichek would not have gotten a winning record out of this team. If the talent isn't there for the BEST coach to have a winning record, then how can we throw Charlie under the bus. It's not like we're losing to teams that we're favored to beat. "Our" biggest gripe is the obvious question: why is the talent such that even a great coach couldn't coax a winning record?
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 9:59 pm | #

Yojoe, then our future is bleak.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:00 pm | #

If Charlie Weis was a MAN, he'd return whatever salary he's made this season and say that he'll work for a $1/day until they win two games in a row!

He's OVER - paid, rated, ego inflated, (fill in the blank), etc, etc, etc.

PS - Eben George Gipp was rooting for Navy in the 3rd OT
Bill McGuire | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:01 pm | #

Jeremy,

A 43 year win streak against any team is impressive. Remember, Navy isn't I-AA. Michigan plays Indiana every year (or almost every year) and they haven't come close to matching that.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:02 pm | #

Let's let Charlie be Charlie. He is doing it his way.
Frank Sinatra | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:05 pm | #

Regrets, Charlie has had a few...
Frank Sinatra | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:06 pm | #

NavyJoe,

I don't know what Pete Carroll, Lou, or Urban Meyer would have done with this team. No one knows. Perhaps they would have taken this team to 8-1, instead of 1-8. Perhaps not.

But, I wouldn't lump Charlie into the same category of those coaches. They are all proven coaches. They have won big games. More importantly, they have won games which they should have lost.

Charlie has lost games, which he should have won. He has yet to win big games. He has proven nothing to me in 3 years.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:07 pm | #

We need to keep Weis. He is our future.

Yes, he is indeed that. For better and for worse, for at least one more year.

One thing that really blows my mind is people blaming this loss on the defense. Navy had about 250 rushing yards through four quarters - about a hundred below their average on the season. And while the pass plays in overtime were obviously back-breakers, holding the Middies to 28 points in regulation would have been regarded as quite an accomplishment if the offense hadn't screwed the pooch.

IMO, the real reason this game was lost was the lack of any semblance of a passing game. Sharpley was dreadfully inaccurate when he did manage to throw the ball, and either his receivers were failing to get open or (more likely) he was failing to locate them much of the rest of the time. The rushing attack looks impressive on paper, but it's not all that impressive when you remember whom we were playing: all the o-line had to do was push hard, and the gaps would appear. It doesn't take much of an offensive guru to orchestrate the ground attack against a defense that inexperienced and undersized.
John | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:11 pm | #

I don't know what Urban Meyer would do with this year's ND team, but I do know what he's doing with a team that's even younger (according to Phil Steele, Florida is the youngest team in the country). The Gators start a true Freshman on the O-Line, two in the secondary, one at DT, and several more in the two-deep. Gators vs Irish, right now, who wins?

I think this is one of the best blogs on the internet, and enjoy reading it, but the Irish don't suck because of youth, it's because of Weis. Florida is younger, and better.
Rob G | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:11 pm | #

Let me say it now --- ND needs to get Jimmy Johnson. Always hated him when he was the coach of Miami, but the man can coach. And, he can recruit. If he was at ND we would be adding to our National Championship total.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:12 pm | #

Big Mike,

My point was that those are great coaches and they couldn't do it. I wasn't lumping Charlie in with those guys.

Name three games that we lost that we were supposed to have won. I can name exactly one: Michigan St in 2005. Maybe Navy this year, but I don't think so. Maybe Michigan last year, but after the way their season panned out, again, I don't think so.

Contrary to that, I don't believe we were supposed to win any of the first five or six games in 2005, and we went 5-1.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:12 pm | #

Rob G,

I forgot Tim Tebow was a freshman. Doesn't Florida have 3 losses, and been more than a bit of a disappointment this year as well. That's what I thought.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:14 pm | #

Navy Joe:
Your posts are excellent--intelligent, civil and analytical.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:14 pm | #

NavyJoe,

I'm too lazy to look at the Vegas spreads for the last 3 years. But, there were plenty of games in which we were favored and we didn't win. Today being one of them.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:15 pm | #

When our field goal kicker hit that 26 yarder from the right hash, kicking toward the North goal post, he absolutely crushed it. The ball soared thru the uprights high and strong. My point: The 42 yarder that CW declined to attempt at the end of regulation was from the same hash, toward the North end zone. Just 16 yards longer. And the 26 yarder had PLENTY of leg to carry an easy 20 more yards. That has to be one of the dumbest decisions I've seen in a long time.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:16 pm | #

Losing at home, to Navy, when you desperately need a win, should be the straw that broke the camel's back.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:17 pm | #

Bib Mike:
Name all the games ND was favored to win in the last 3 years and did not? Michigan in 2006? Navy today. Others?
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:18 pm | #

NavyJoe,

I didn't claim Tebow was a freshman (he is however, only a sophomore). I didn't claim Florida was having the best year ever. No point in refuting arguments I haven't made.

My points still stand, Florida's three losses were all close. ND's eight were not all close. And Florida, overall, is younger than ND.

ND's youth is not an excuse for this disaster.
Rob G | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:19 pm | #

Lush,

An assignment for me? I'll delegate it to you. Why don't you look them up?

Look up all the games the past 3 years and the Vegas spreads on them. If ND was supposed to win by 40 points, and we just barely eeked out a win, again that shows lack of coaching.

Let me know how it goes.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:21 pm | #

I swear that it seemed to me like Weis was trying to make sure Navy ended the 43 year skid. He did everything he could to prevent our winning. It's kind of eery that with all of our problems, he chose to be Navy's 12th man.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:21 pm | #

BigMike,

I'll do the leg work for you:

2005:
MSU- we were both undefeated, i think we were favored.
USC- underdog
OSU- underdog

2006:
UM-favored
USC-underdog

2007:
7 losses: underdog
Navy- favored

Wins as underdog:
2005:
Pitt,UM
2007: UCLA

I think they even out...
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:22 pm | #

Big Mike:
I did look up the answer. I just wanted you to admit how wrong you were, which obviously you did not. Defend your position with Navy Joe and others with facts, not fiction.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:23 pm | #

I think everyone is ignoring the obvious problem here....


RON POWLUS IS BACK!
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:23 pm | #

Rob G:

Logic will not work against the followers of the Weis cult. He is a "genius" regardless of his record.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:24 pm | #

Big Mike:
Name the last time ND was predicted to beat a team by 40 points.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:25 pm | #

NavyJoe,

Obviously you don't bet. You didn't put up the spread. The point spread is the key. Beating Navy in 2006 wasn't really an issue. Covering the spread was. And, considering I bet on most of the games in 2006, guess what -- ND didn't cover the spreads.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:26 pm | #

Big Mike:
So now it's the spread rather than the W or L? LOL!!
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:28 pm | #

BigMike,

After you suggested Jimmy Johnson should be our coach, I assumed you left the conversation to go take another hit of whatever you were toking on.

Rob G,

Florida may be younger than us this year, and I'd really love to see those numbers, but they do have experience in key positions where we are lacking- qb, rb, wr. Those positions are our youngest (when Clausen is playing) and coincidentally enough, our offense has been our downfall this year.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:28 pm | #

Lush:

Why should I? Again, Lush try using logic. When ND is favored to beat a team, ie. Michigan State in 2006, and has to come back in the 4th quarter to barely win, it is a reflection on the coaching.

The teams under Weis have NEVER been well prepared. He is not a good coach.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:29 pm | #

And DayBreakBoys sticks the landing.

We're a bad football team. And we don't seem to be playing better. It might be cyclical (didn't we have like a 9-year winning streak against SC in the 80s-90s?) but I don't see many signs pointing to an upswing.

Oh well, congrats to Navy. They deserved it.

And as an ND grad, so what if they win one every 45 years or so.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:29 pm | #

BigMike- I guess you would have been better off betting the moneyline then.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:30 pm | #

Jimmy Johnson was one of the best college coaches in the last 25 years. Accept it or not, I don't care.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:30 pm | #

ND rarely beats the spread. Vegas generally sets the line knowing that lots of irrational, biased ND fans bet with their hearts, not their heads. And many old school gamblers, particularly gambling Catholics think it is bad luck to ever bet against Notre Dame. No school has ever had the big, urban fan base that ND has enjoyed for 80 years, and I believe that bookies have been exploiting fans' love and loyalty ever since the Four Horsemen wreaked havoc in the 1920's.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:30 pm | #

Hitler was a great orator, how bout we have him give the next commencement address
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:31 pm | #

Before Navy, the worst defense ND played this year was Purdue's (ranked 56th). Everyone else was pretty high up including several in the top 10 against the rush.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:31 pm | #

@ Rob G:

Florida is definitely younger than ND on defense. On offense, each team starts five players who are true freshmen or sophomores (ND starts six if you count Clausen), so they're equally young in that respect. But - and I'd have to do a bit more research to back this up - I'd definitely bet that Florida has fewer than EIGHT first-year starters on offense: that's to say, only three of the upperclassmen who start on offense for ND are returning starters, while I doubt the same is true for Florida's upperclassmen. I also know that many of the sophomores who start for the Gators - Tebow and Harvin come to mind - got a bunch of experience last year, which isn't true for their counterparts at ND. So by any reasonable standard, I'd say the Irish offense is probably younger than Florida's, though the same can't be said for the defense.

None, and I mean NONE, of this is meant to excuse the inexcusable. Weis has done an awful job this year, and I'm hard-pressed to think of a coach who couldn't have done better.
John | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:31 pm | #

Big Mike:
You made the statement that ND lost many games it was supposed to win. As Navy Joe showed you are wrong.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:32 pm | #

NavyJoe,

Wow, you are mature: Hitler = Jimmy Johnson. Okay, I'm done with trying to have an intelligent conversation with someone is obviously didn't graduate from Notre Dame.

Good night board.
BigMike | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:35 pm | #

Ty Willingham, and our so-called youthful inexperience should now be officially banned as excuses for CW's lack of success. It's on you, Tough Jersey Guy.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:36 pm | #

Uh, he wasn't saying Hitler = Johnson, but he was making a point about overlooking bad qualities because of one good quality.

Johnson ran a lawless thug program at Miami. Don't think that would fly in South Bend. Nor would most Domers want to see it.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:37 pm | #

"Johnson ran a lawless thug program at Miami. Don't think that would fly in South Bend. Nor would most Domers want to see it."


HERE HERE!!!
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:40 pm | #

John (and NavyJoe sort of),

When you tallied those figures did you count the Pouncey twins (one on O-Line and one on D-Line) and Major Wright (Safety)? Because they weren't opening day starters, but because of injury and Kyle Jackson they are all starting now. Justin Trattou and Carlos Dunlap also get a ridiculous amount of playtime because of how Florida rotates its D-Line (they play a true 2-Deep on D-Line). As an example, last year Derrick Harvey did not even start on D-Line, and you may remember his performance in the National Title game (as a non-starter).

Anyway, you're probably right about ND's offense being younger, and certainly Tebow and Harvin have a lot of experience for sophomores.

But my real point is that both are very young teams, and if they played today, I think Florida would win by at least 14, and probably more. Weis deserves the blame (which you admitted, and others will not).

I like it when ND is good, ND is good for College Football. In my opinion, ND will not be good again without some changes. (in the interest of full disclosure, I am a Dolphins fan and have hated Weis for a while, so I may be a bit biased against him)
Rob G | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:40 pm | #

Does anyone know why ND has not played Miami since 1990? Hint: it has something to do with the nature of Miami's program under Jimmy Johnson and Dennis Erickson. After what happened re ND fan safety in 1989, Beachamp said ND would never schedule Miami again.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:44 pm | #

Ha, I'm glad that some people understood the Hitler comment for what it was. I mean, this is a blog- if Hyperbole can't happen here, where can it happen.

And I did graduate from ND, BigMike, which is why I was smart enough not to bet on them every game in 2006.

In addition, I am in the Navy(as the name applies) and my shipmates from the Academy all think CW is a stand up guy for the things he has done the past three years.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:45 pm | #

Rob G is being very nice and charitable. Florida would beat us by 30, and there young kids would simply kick our young kids' asses. All of Weis' bravado about "all day tough" is just a bunch of crap. This is the wimpiest ND team I have ever seen. They are content being a punching bag every week, and then they sing the alma mater completely emotionless. They're zombies and completely devoid of pride.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:52 pm | #

Beauchamp. Man I'm glad he's out of the picture! I was never too fond of him.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 10:56 pm | #

Anybody see CW interviewed after the game? Anything interesting?
Shadow Hawkins | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:06 pm | #

Voice you are correct. For all of CW's tough-guy fake swagger, his team is totally weak. They look like they all have stage fright. They look afraid to touch the ball on offense. They look confused. They play with no passion or emotion. Then they mindlessly put on the green jerseys against USC as if they have Harry Potter magic inside. Disgraceful.

I think Weis botched this thing back in preseason with his cloak and dagger QB game and lost half the team with it. way to show leadership CW.
anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:11 pm | #

I've been playing Guitar Hero III with the roomies for the last few hours and it's been fun. I'd suggest you guys take some time away from the computer and cool off...it's getting pretty nasty in here.
Skip | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:16 pm | #

@ Rob G

The depth chart I saw for Florida had MANY underclassmen on defense, so it probably did have the people you want.

@ Voice

You're being too generous as well. They'd beat us by 40 at LEAST; 60+ if they pushed.
John | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:21 pm | #

It's fitting that the last time ND lost to Navy, our country was at war as we are again (Yes 'Nam was technically a conflict-don't say that to a vet-and large amounts of troops weren't sent until '65). My dad always told me about seeing Roger Staubach lifting weights in Da Nang. Congrats to the Midshipmen, they played well. The ND/Navy series is just good College Football and the game aught to be played in San Diego because of the Naval prescence there.

I don't think NBC is too worried, as someone mentioned. ND will be their cinderella story for next year, even if the Irish are 6-6.

1-8 is alot more difficult when you were 8-1 last year at this point. In 1960, the Irish were 2-8 and in 1933 they were 3-5-1. The sun will rise again on ND football. Let people have a laugh once every 30 years or so.
rem | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:24 pm | #

http://navy.scout.com/2/696279.html

I think everyone needs to read this. It is a great piece written by a Navy alumni that knows the importantance of the friendly rivalry ND and Navy have and his take on what it has meant to the Naval Academy. This article makes me proud to go to ND and be a part of a school I will love forever.
nd17 | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:28 pm | #

rem, appreciate your consoling, logical words. However, I feel like this team has a much deeper problem than any ND team I've witnessed. There is no fire. There is no heart. Nobody seems to care, and lethargy rules supreme. How does the team jump start itself? Can it? It has a similar feeling to a death of a great, irreplaceable person. Like it ain't coming back. The program seems to be mired in a funk that I do not understand. God, I hope that you are right, but I am scared to death that I am right.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:30 pm | #

@ REM:

ND will be their cinderella story for next year, even if the Irish are 6-6.

At this point 6-6 looks like a pretty serious stretch.
John | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:35 pm | #

To change the subject, I thought Robert Hughes was going to be at the game today. I did not see him play. It would seem to me that if he was there, it would be a no brainer to play him a lot. When people go through emotional things like he did, they often rise to unprecedented heights. If he was available, then you can add his not playing to the laundry list of Charlie's mistakes today.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:37 pm | #

i cant blame this game on the players. they left it out on the field.....well the OL still cant block when their is a big play but besides that, i blame this on Weis. What kind of play calling was he doing? Fake field goal on 4th and 15 and its run??? Then we have 2:30 left in the game and Weis plays for the field goal instead of trying to move the ball down the field with the time he had. then he freaking doesnt even give Walker a chance to kick the ball because he said "we were kicking into the wind." He had plenty of time to go score a touchdown if he didnt run the clock out. HE BLEW IT AND HE KNOWS IT!!! That was the worst play calling I have ever seen...EVER!!

Oh and by the way, for all the people who think Sharpley should be starting, I think it was proof today that he isnt better then Clausen. He took a sack out of the pocket instead of throwing the ball away. Alot of his passes were absolutely horrible!! I hope Clausen starts next week like he should be all along! This season is been a joke. I am a die hard ND for life but Weis better rethink his strategy because his son could of made better play calls then him.
dkuhn | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:38 pm | #

To change the subject, I thought Robert Hughes was going to be at the game today. I did not see him play. It would seem to me that if he was there, it would be a no brainer to play him a lot.

Robert Hughes scored ND's first touchdown.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:42 pm | #

I just saw this. It seems that ND grad, Ryan Shay just died trying to qualify for the Olympics in the marathon.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics...ov=ap& type=lgns
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:46 pm | #

lush seems like an accurate handle.
mike b | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:47 pm | #

DJ

I missed the first part of the game so I guess that explains it. Maybe Hughes should have played more.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:49 pm | #

Perhaps, GB, but I don't think the game was lost because Hughes didn't play too much. The line play was not good, the defense could not cover the edge, and Weis made a couple of...shall we say...controversial play calls.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.03.07 - 11:56 pm | #

on another note...go Seminoles! Just picked off Ryan for the nail in the coffin. Might as well root for BC to crash back down to Earth, right?

Oh yeah, F Charlie Weis.
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 12:01 am | #

Might as well root for BC to crash back down to Earth, right?

Aside from when we play BC, I have no interest whatsoever in what they're doing.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 12:02 am | #

i wrote father jenkins to fire white and weiss - when he fired ty father jenkins wrote me on january 4 2005 and stated the standards for hiring or firing a head coach at notre damw ''(1)conducting our program with integrity ;(2)ensuring that our student-athletes recieve a superb education ; and (3_ EXCELLING ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD ""THE DECISION NOT TO RETAIN TYRONE WILLINGHAM AS HEAD COACH OF THE NOTRE DAME FOOTBALL PROGRAM HAS CREATED A GREAT DEAL OF CONTROVERSEYIN THE PRESS AND DIVISION WITHIN THE NOTRE DAME FAMILY .WE UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS THE CASE COACH WILLINGHAM IS A GOOD MAN WHO REPRESENTED NOTRE DAME EXTREMELY WELL IN MANY WAYS ,EVEN THOUGH,AS HE HIMSELF SAID --HE DID NOT MEET HIS OWN EXPECTATIONS ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD .WE WISH COACH WILLINGHAM THE VERY BEST -- WE ARE FORTUNATE TO HAVE AN EXCELLENT NEW CACH IN CHARLIE WEIS '''''REV JOHN I JENKINS C S C REMEMBER THIS FROM KEVIN WHITE NOVEMBER 30 2004'''''THE UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME HAS DETERMINED THAT TY WILLINGHAM WILL NOT BE RETAINED AS THE NOTRE DAME HEAD COACH ...ALL OF US HAD GREAT EXPECTATIONS WHEN WE SAT HERE THREE YEARS AGO.... ''AT THE END OF THE DAY--WE SIMPLY HAVE NOT MADE THE PROGRESSW ON THE FIELD THATWE NEED TO MAKE WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CREASTE POSITIVE MOMENTUM NECCESSARY IN OUR EFFORTS TO RETURN NOTRE DAME TO ---THE ELITE LEVEL OF THE COLLEGE FOOTBALL WORLD ''''KEVIN WHITE ---BY WHITE AND JENKINS OWN STANDARDS ALL NOTRE DAME ALUMNI AND FRIENDS SHOULD DEMAND THE --IMMEDIATE -IMMEDIATE RESIGINATION OF WHITEW AND WEISS ON NOVEMBER 25TH AFTER THE STANFORD GAME -- WEIS ID-S DEFICENT IN EVERY ASPECT OF COACHING-'''ONE MORE YEAR ? YEA AND THERE WILL NOT BE A NOTRE DAME FOOTBALL PROGRAM WORTY OF RESPECT JIM DOUGHERTY BIG SUR CA-- ''BLUE AND GOLD NEWSPAPER SHOULD SHUT DOWN TUESDAY
james dougherty | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 12:36 am | #

Jim's liver may shut down this very night...all caps is poor internet etiquette, friend...
DJ | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 12:44 am | #

Anyone else sorry we fired Bob Davie?
Carlo | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 12:59 am | #

Congrats to Navy. The guy that sacked Sharpley on the 4th down play made one of the best plays I have seen in a long time leaping over Allen.

Now on to my dismay: I am starting to actually worry about the Duke game. We might lose that game. Oh, what did I do to deserve this pain and misery? This is painful. If Coach Weis had just kicked the field goal and the kick was missed, at least Navy does not have to emotional lift of sacking the QB heading into OT. Wow. This hurts so much!
Jason D | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:00 am | #

DJ; Big Jim from "Big Sur" Cali. is a fervent ND fan, with some physical disabilities. He's a good loyal ND man.
1) Let's show some loyalty to 'du lac", Fr. Jenkins, Dr. White & HC Charlie Weis. Is loyalty another mis-laced virtue?
2) Charlie's a smart man, he'll make the proper adjustments: there's no questioning his love for his alma mater.
3) Logic would dictate, using either the Socratic, Platonic, or Aristolean methodology that, a) either seasons 1 & 2 were an aberration, or b) season 3 is the aberration.
I fervently hope and believe it is the latter.
I hope I'm not being to personal with the info about Big Jim, from Big Sur: he uses a pencil or another apparatus between his teeth to communicate. I hope I have that info correct.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:01 am | #

Jim, also u realize we would lose all our recruits if we fired both white and weis? Oh ya it is one "s" genius. I think everyone shoud quiet down on the firing stuff until monday when maybe emotions are not running so high.

I don't want to sound like I am happy, because I am quite upset. But I think before you call to have someone fired, you should think about it for a while.
nd17 | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:07 am | #

Too many broken hearted saturday nights in a row - fellas, take another Jamison shot, go to bed. The board got ugly tonight my friends, very ugly. I hope we all see with alittle more clarity tomorrow. Keep the faith.
speakirish | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:08 am | #

Not going for the field goal late in the fourth puzzles me.

Such a waste of a great, timely punt return (maybe the last we'll see) by Tom Zbikowski, picking his way up through the middle of the field like the option quarterback he used to be. And I know Zbikowski's coach owes it to all his fifth year seniors not to let their efforts go in vain. I know this because he said it to reporters, and he's a Notre Dame man and he never lies.

So the genius says the kicker won't make that kick. The genius knows all, tells all. There's no better x's and o's guy in the history of humanity, right?

I'm just thankful that the genius wasn't Harry Oliver's coach.

Just getting my shots on the genius while I can, you know, because unprecedented success is on its way, right? (Knute who?) It's all on paper. The average semi-committed recruit is a four-star guy, and football games are played on paper, and we've got the Emperor of Tic-Tac-Toe.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:18 am | #

Oh, and congratulations to Navy.

Guts, guts, physical conditioning, and guts as usual. I've seen Navy teams that deserved to beat the Irish before, but this one actually did it, and they'll have this victory to savour for the rest of their lives.

That's what makes college football the best.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:21 am | #

Looks like Kevin White, aka "[o]ne of the most progressive and talented administrators in the intercollegiate ranks," and "one of the most respected athletic directors in the nation" according to the official hagiography, is going to have to pad his resume with some more lines about how well the fencing teams have done under his tenure. I wish his official bio were more like wikipedia, so I could put those "citation needed" next to all the claims of greatness.
RH | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:50 am | #

In 5th grade during my first year on a local Pop Warner team we were taught blocking,tackling, and destroying blocks. We were also taught desire to win by parent coaches who bordered on psychopaths.
Who in the hell is coaching these guys at ND?
They don't care and with CW's play calling on top of that we stand (or lay down) at 1 and 8.
JohninVegas | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:53 am | #

yeah so I believe it went something like this..."We're gonna have a hard-hitting, nasty football team..."
What type of nasty football team walks onto the field before the game and after halftime. That was ridiculous.
PS. Student Section booed Weis today. When it happened I felt bad, but it was warranted. Support the players, but Weis is sucking it up.
Tim '09 | Email | Homepage | 11.04.07 - 1:02 am | #

CBS sportsline.com, has an interesting review of the game.
The author once again prai