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"last year's Hindenberg-crashing-into-the-Titanic debacle" ... CLASSIC

This team is on its way up, and I'm glad to be along for the ride. Looking forward to a bigtime W against the huskies. Let's take all that frustration from the end of the UNC game and let it build to a furious frenzy during the bye week and unleash one for the ages up there.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 11:20 am | #

Screw that.

I will take away from UNC's win. They aren't that good of a team. You give them 5 gifts and they only win by 5 points? Are you kidding me?

ND should have spanked UNC and won by 21 or more. UNC just isn't that good of a team.

Its a shame ND let UNC's backup QB do as well as he did. That's just not going to do.

Harrumph.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 11:43 am | #

After every loss, there is the predictable self-flagellation (we suck, Clausen is a former mullet mongering fraud of a QB, etc). And after every win, we feel witness to the second coming (we are a legit top 25 team, Clausen should be in Heisman contention). We're a work in progress. Just be thankful we're good enough that losing is disappointing, because that means we thought we were good enough to win (and if you want real disappointment, I'll share my 401k statement)
Five Iron Frenzy | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 12:18 pm | #

I admire everyone's teeth-clenching optimism, and do my best to be patient...

Almost 4 years ago when CW was hired, can you imagine if someone told us "In season FOUR of the Weis regime, a a horrible 2nd half will result in a loss to North Carolina and put the team at 4-2, yet most fans will still be optimistic and excited about the future"...

I would have scratched my head (and maybe nads) wondering how in the hell such a scenario would come to pass...funny how things turn out.
Tony Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 12:37 pm | #

Excellent post. Completely agree.
Adam B. | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 12:39 pm | #

"UNC just isn't that good of a team."

I think this has to be relatively speaking, right?

I mean, they were using their backup QB and Tate got banged up early.

Now, I do believe the irish are more talented. however, whether the better team won on saturday depends on if you think turnovers are the fault of the offense or the skill of the defense. interesting debate for sure.
kevin | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 1:05 pm | #

Nailed it. Can't wait for next Saturday to come around so we can drive that final nail into Ty's tenure, and do him the favor of sending him out to pasture (aka the back nine).
Domer Guy | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 1:15 pm | #

Let's hope. Wounded is dangerous, and it should be a hard fought game. In the first quarter. Until we pull away and they give up. Right?
indy | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 1:21 pm | #

They're not such a bad little Fighting Irish team after all, Charlie Brown.
All they needed was a little love.
Now can I have my blanket back, please?
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 1:36 pm | #

This has been echoed elsewhere on different sites, but several posters seem ready to dismiss Washington like ND is going to play a high school team. Three things:
1 - The game is in Washington, and by all accounts a tough place to play when the crowd is in(to) it
2 - UW will be so up for this game, it'll be an 11 on the ricter scale
3 - If Ty has to burn every redshirt he has left to win this game, he will. We all know that he doesn't care for the future of the team, just his bottom line
4 - (in Honor of Joe Biden) Combine a coach with nothing to lose, a team with nothing to lose, and a crowd ready to explode in exhaltation of their team and at the first sign of percieved trouble, the ND team could be in real trouble.

Best hope, ND gets three TDs ahead and just runs, runs, runs. Charlie should do everything in his power to see if Julius Jones can make it on to the sideline.
E-man | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 1:55 pm | #

Since it's in Seattle, maybe we can sneak John Carlson into the game.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 2:04 pm | #

Okay, all I took from the post is that ND's fortunes started to turn when Pete began considering the margin of victory, and then the game was lost when Pete's dad sat down to watch. Obviously, Pete and his dad are to blame for this loss.
The Song of Hiawatha Francisco | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 2:21 pm | #

We all have to be careful about how we talk about the NC loss, or we will all sound like a bunch of Michigan Pussies led by Steve Brown.

"We all know that the better team lost on Saturday."

This is not directed at Pete, but at some of the posters. Please do not talk like our moronic and retarded northern opponents. The debacle that was Michigan's players and fans response after the shellacing they took in South Bend was nothing short of sheer chutzpah - do not resign Notre Dame fans to the same fate.

We ND fans have no respect for the douchebags at Michigan because a.) they suck this year, but had no problem rubbing Notre Dame's 2007 failures in our face, b.) they are douchebags (did I say that?), and c.) they make up stupid excuses for when they lose to Notre Dame (or any other team) rather than accepting defeat with dignity. (Please remember that the last time ND beat Michigan, all the UM fuckers want to remind us that UM was 7-5 that year and not very good...blah, blah, blah)

Please, fans of Notre Dame, do not start making excuses that make us look like the northern fuck-ups - we are better than them in all things, and I refuse to be begin acting like them. Instead, please say that North Carolina was the better team on Saturday - because they were. Notre Dame lost and North Carolina won. We don't have to be happy about it, but please don't make stupid excuses that amount to "We are the better team" crap.

However, to Pete's original post, I agree. The loss sucks. Yes, ND was in a position to win - there were still 12+ minutes left in the game following UNC's last score. And ND COULD have won the game. But UNC played good enough to keep ND out of the enzone, and proved that they were the better team. But there is optimism to be had and shared. ND can still win 4 more games this year, and enjoy some bowling. Let's hope that happens.

But please - let's try to stop acting like the Michigan crybaby pussies. You can be mad, angry, optimistic, or downright disgusted, but lose with some dignity and respect, and congratulate the Tarheels for a game well played.
chrisnd | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 2:23 pm | #

Great post. As a (sort-of) southerner myself, I especially liked the "done f-ed up & thrown a pick-six" line. Classic. Think I prefer that particular southern colloquialism, "He done did ___," over its common northern "alls I gotta do is ___" cousin. Overall great summary of how the majority of ND fans either are, or should be feeling. The leaves are turning gold and we have a team that we know can win, and often does, but we're not satisfied - we're NOT settling!

ChrisND, I hear you w/ the "let's not make excuses" comments, but if you're interested in not sounding/acting like a UM fan, you might insult them a little less. Hurling baseless insults (not saying yours are, by any means) while assuming superiority is a classic Wolverine trait, and one that makes beating them even more enjoyable. Not tryin to break your balls here (I tend to think &/or grumble some of the same things about them), your post is just a little bit conflicting, is all.
baIrish | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 2:46 pm | #

Remember that even though Ty sucks, he did a great job of getting the team fired up for a few big games. While we inexplicably lost to some really crappy teams like Syracuse and BYUduring his tenure, we also won against some strong teams. We should not chalk this one up as an easy win so quickly.

That said, great teams go out and lay a beating on crappy teams. They play the third string and still continue the pounding. I want some of that this season. Washington, Syracuse, and Navy should get that treatment or I'm going to be pissed off. I want that for BC too but I won't go so far as saying I expect it.

btw, I agree with chrisnd. We can't act like a bunch of Michigan bitches.
Abe Froman | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 3:00 pm | #

Great, thoughtful points made in the above posts.
Let's hope that ND never takes any opponent lightly, now or ever, because that's when the losses come.

I think the coaches will remind ND that they have much to prove, and doing so in the Pacific Northwest a week Saturday would be a great start.

Who's the Husky quarterback now that Locker's out now, anyway?

I kinda hope he's along the same lines as that McLeod Bethel-Stevenson whatshisname, the poor kid who had to step in for UCLA vs. the Irish last year.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 3:38 pm | #

Correction: Bethel-Thompson:

http://uclabruins.cstv.com/ sport...n_mcleod00.html

His third name is Baltazar. I have to like that, along with the interceptions he threw.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 3:42 pm | #

I actually wasn't upset like i thought i would be. I would have been more upset if we played our best football and got beat. But i know and all you know that this team is young and those turnovers are gonna happen. Don't get me wrong i still need to go to confession after the words i was using but at least things are looking up. Jimmy is gonna be scary good next year. Can't wait for 09 to shut a few people up for good
gondgo | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 3:53 pm | #

There are only two games that I have been unable to watch on tv this season. Michigan State and UNC. I blame myself for the loss.
me | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 3:55 pm | #

That Washington team is done. There is no need to fear them. If we score once, they'll roll over. Their coach is a dead man walking, and they've lost the only player who could be considered exceptional.

I know, I know. Any given Saturday, blah, blah, blah.
I'm not on the team so I don't need to talk like that. We're finally getting back to a place where we've got gimmes on the schedule, and Washington is one of 'em.

Really. Tell me with a straight face that Washington is going to be able to stop our offense more than we'll stop theirs.

Our team now is competent and talented. They have a ways to go to get to the next level. But Washington is not the kind of team that's a threat to them anymore.

That felt good to say. I hope I'm right.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 4:20 pm | #

Hey, what's the television coverage situation going to be on the ND vs. Washington game? Is it national, by any chance?
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 4:52 pm | #

"I admire everyone's teeth-clenching optimism, and do my best to be patient...

Almost 4 years ago when CW was hired, can you imagine if someone told us "In season FOUR of the Weis regime, a a horrible 2nd half will result in a loss to North Carolina and put the team at 4-2, yet most fans will still be optimistic and excited about the future"...

I would have scratched my head (and maybe nads) wondering how in the hell such a scenario would come to pass...funny how things turn out."

Yeah, like North Carolina hiring Butch Davis, him recruiting like, well, Butch Davis, and being ranked and in the mix to win the ACC at midseason. Come on, you sound as ridiculous as the people saying we'll drub Navy by three touchdowns. (I THINK we'll beat Navy something to the tune of 35-28, and if I'm watching I'll probably be drinking heavily and praying that we somehow stop them just one more time...)
paulus | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 4:52 pm | #

chrisnd,

I agree with you that some of the whining can sound like the nonsense spewed by people to explain the Michigan pounding. However, I think the two games were pretty different.

In the UM game we took a big lead and then ran conservative plays (in the rain) such that the offensive numbers looked skewed. As a result UM had a lot more yards but a whole lot less points.

In the UNC game, we pretty much moved the ball at will. I believe we only punted once (not including the roughing the kicker penalty) the whole game. This was not a situation of UNC having a lead and trying to run out the clock while we throw haphazardly all over the place making a turnover more likely. This wasn't a situation of Claussen trying to make something happen. This was just bad decision making resulting in TO's, and a defense that continues to struggle with slant passes.

By the way, I re-watched parts of the game the other night and I have no idea how JC threw the pick 6. I slowed it down and the line opens up to allow a direct view of Rudolph and by the time the ball is thrown, the LB is already in front of him. I assumed during the game that the LB was hidden behind a lineman. From what I could see in the replay, there would have been noone blocking JC's line of sight. Very strange pass choice indeed.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 5:03 pm | #

Hey, what's the television coverage situation going to be on the ND vs. Washington game? Is it national, by any chance?

Moved from ABC to ESPN2.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 5:23 pm | #

who replaced us on ABC? USC vs Devry again?
DieselKnight | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 6:51 pm | #

Diesel,

Everyone knows the DeVry NetCords are a tough team that could tie the fluffy boys in a knot for long periods!
ND67Aquajock | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 7:08 pm | #

Butch Davis appears to be a better coach than the fat man. This feels like Jerry Faust all over again!
valpodoc | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 7:19 pm | #

The negative comments are sometimes hard to understand (probably because I am dense). Questions:

With Willingham having had two mediocre classes (I am being kind) with only two OL recruited in two years, why do people think that ND's OL was going to be good last year or even this year?

With a sophomore QB, and a slew of other young players, why do people think ND should be undefeated this year?

With an 85-player scholarship limit, why do people think Weis should be like Ara and Lou? Hell, Ara had 100 or more players on scholarship consistently but as great a coach as he was, went undefeated/untied only once in 11 years! In six of his seasons had two loses and the schedule had teams on it that were not that good. In 1974, he lost to an absolutely crappy Purdue team, barely beat Navy and gave up 49 straight points to USC, all while having National Championship talent. How did Lou blow a 31-7 halftime lead against Tennessee in 1991, an 18-0 lead against Stanford in 1992, and a 21-7 halftime lead against Penn State in 1990? How did he do in 1994, 95 and 96??

Let's take some deep breaths.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 8:39 pm | #

Lush,
I like what you are saying, but I don't think the expectations of what Charlie should be doing now are based on what has happened in the past. Rather, they are based on what guys like Bob Stoops, Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer have done (all championships by 2nd year) in this day and age, plus we all think that ND should still be able to attract the best players (harder than ever).

Valpodoc-
You have to be kidding. The called plays should have worked, but when you telegraph passes, confuse routes, and turn the ball over in general, things do not play out as they are drawn up. All a coach can do is give a kid an opportunity, then it is up to them. North Carolina made more out of their opportunities and that reflects more on the players than the coaches.
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 9:33 pm | #

You should be afeared of our Husky D.
beanie babies | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 10:46 pm | #

Stoops, Tressel, and Meyer were not on Tybation in year 3.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 10:57 pm | #

Stoops didn't have great recruits-he won with Josh Heupel among others. I was just trying to point out a reason why people get so upset with Weis, and the success of coaches like that early on is a possible reason.

I realize that Ty hurt ND a lot with his bad recruiting though.
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 10.16.08 - 11:10 pm | #

SouthBendBlarney, people get upset with Weis for multiple reasons, some justified, others not. I'd say first and foremost is the fact that we've sucked, overall, since 1993. Lou's last few years were decent but below his standards; Davie dragged things down further, then Willingham took them down even further after giving us initial false hope. ND fans are starving for consistent, sustainable success. Everyone seems to forget that Weis went to two BCS games (blowouts or not) his first two seasons--for many people, they are subconciously equating that with Ty's 8-0 run his first season. They see a fast start, only to drop in the tank, and equate Weis to Willingham. Of course, any set of objective data shows the differences between the two, but those horses have been beaten to death. By saying "Weis sucks, fire him now!" they are protecting themselves against the pain that potential failure will bring--they can at least say "I told you so". And over the last decade they've been conditioned to EXPECT failure, or at least mediocrity.

Add Weis's abrasive personality, his initial struggles to understand the college game, and his deviation from ND's traditional run-first type style, and sure, a lot of people will criticize him. And he deserves some of it. But I think everyone with any shred of rational thought understands that A. to fire Weis means we'll be right back where we were when he came in--whatever coach we hire (assuming we can find someone willing to come to ND) will do well in his first season or two because of the fantastic recruiting Weis has done, and then inevitably dip when that talent graduates and there is a gap before his recruited talent is ready to go.

We should by no means be content with things as they are, but that's where momentum and turning the corner come in. The team is certainly on an upswing--no one can deny that. We're significantly better than last year. You don't ever fire someone when they've got the team going up--only when they go down or stagnate. If we're consistently a 7-5, 8-4 team for the next 3 years under Weis, then maybe we need to look at a change to take us to the next level. But Willingham had not only plateaued, he was regressing. Weis is not doing that--his team is rising....slower than some would like, but it is certainly rising. It's no coincidence that Smardzija's first significant playing time came in the bowl game AFTER TW was fired; TW got lucky in the players he did recruit, it wasn't his skill bringing them in, and he didn't use them properly when they got here.

God I can't wait until next week's game is over and we can stop talking about Willy.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 12:56 am | #

We were outcoached versus UNC, plain and simple. Take Clausen out of our lineup, and remove either Tate or Floyd and -- who do we beat? CW can't compensate/coach up the talent to win in that type scenario. Butch Davis, coaching ND this year, has us 6-0.

Ara's teams were competing versus Alabama, USC, Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska teams that had no academic restrictions and far more players. That 1974 Purdue team may not have been their greatest ever; it was a troublesome team.

Those 49 unanswered points that USC scored followed 24 of our own: a classic momentum shift game. Please give a brief recap of what Ara had to do to beat an awesome and undefeated MSU team, on their turf, in 1966.

Also, Ara's first squad (1964) won the Macarthur Bowl [NC title] with the least talented Irish team of all time.

CW is an outstanding recruiter; on any given day, he's the best in the country. Rockne may well have been a better coach than Ara (again, the 'any given day' scenario). CW will never be close to either of them.

If we play MSU this weekend, we have a strong shot of winning. We play UNC in a month, the same holds true. If we show up in Seattle and 'know' it's a blowout, Ty creams our butts. We lose to BC or Pitt (most likely BC, but possibly both), while, again, having superior talent. Much as I hate to say it, I am coming to respect BC for having taken the mantle of the 'best Catholic team(s)' after 1993, and rubbing our face in it. They're hungry; we read our past clippings. What they did to us in the Hockey NC game again shows who you don't want to face in a dark alley.

Let's hope we go to a crap-laden bowl this year, just to end that god-awful streak. Next year we win 10 games in the regular season, sneak into the Top-5 during the regular season, and ... again ... get decimated in a BCS game.

All things considered, loads better than 40-plus weeks ago. World's different, though, than what CW witnessed as a frosh at du Lac.
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 3:11 am | #

Some follow cups:

1. Let's be blunt--CW is not permitted by ND's administration and academic standards to recruit in the same manner as Stoops, Meyer, Saban and others. Several members of the 1988 team would not have been admitted to ND today. Such comparisons are not very valid.

2. The 1964 team was the least talented Irish team of all time? The idiocy of this statement speaks for itself.

3. In 1966, Ara could not have won the MSU game if he had only v85 players on scholarship. PERIOD!! That game in fact proves my point. What team today could lose its starting center (an All American), its starting QB, and its All American RB and still tie the No.1 team on the road

4. Name a coach today that "will be close to Rockne" (88% winning percentage).

5. As a frosh, CW witnessed a loss to a crappy Purdue team, a struggle against mighty Rice, a squeaker against Navy and a disaster in LA, all by a team that won the NC the year before and lost only 6 starters from that team including the punter and PK.

You sound like the Tennessee fans and Michigan fans right now!!

Get real.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 7:00 am | #

I hope the players are in an angry mood when they take the field against the "Ferocious Animals" next Saturday. Ara's teams always took it out on the next opponent after a loss.
Fr.Lange Boy | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 7:53 am | #

I'm just wondering if there's any good recruiting news out there. In looking at the rankings, we are at about number 10 right now for the class of 2009, with only 16 verbal committments -- which worries me, when I see that places like OSU have 25. I'm really hoping that we can pick up either Jelani Jenkins or Manti Te'o at LB, but it seems like even more importantly we need some good D-lineman to enter this class. I know Shaquelle Evans would be a nice addition to offense, but what's going on with the defensive recruiting?
NDgrad05 | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 8:57 am | #

"Take Clausen, Tate, Floyd out and who do we beat?" Respectfully, that is a stupid comment. They are 3 playmakers who are working within a game plan. Yes, they are better than most other teams big 3, but that is how you win. Take Vince Young off Texas, they lose big. Take Reggie off SC and they lose to us and others. Take Montana off the 77 team and ...well, you get the idea.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 10:05 am | #

Don't worry about U-dub, I will be at the game and I have a perfect 4 and 0 record when I 've got to see the boys play live. That being said, for the next week I will not walk under any ladders, I will not let a black cat cross my path and hopefully customs won't take my lucky rabbit's foot from me when I cross the border. ND 45 UW 13
VicPaul | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 10:21 am | #

Mr. Wednesday - "Tybation"?! Awesome! Am I behind the times in never having heard that before, or did you just coin the phrase? Definitely improved my morning.

SB-Blarney (& any others referencing OU's 2000 NC run) -
..."Stoops didn't have great recruits-he won with Josh Heupel among others. I was just trying to point out a reason why people get so upset with Weis, and the success of coaches like that early on is a possible reason."
Actually, the one positive from John Blake's regime (OU coach before Stoops) was the recruiting. Stoops did have SOME talent to work with, though not the kind he has today. A major part of the success that season was, as you mentioned, Josh Heupel. A son of a HS coach, he became an absolute Field General back in the shotgun. Don't forget that the main reason he didn't win the Heisman was a lack of respect from voters, who instead gave the trophy to 28-yr-old Chris Weinke (who the Sooner D rattled and unmasked in the title game). An aspect of JH that I'd love to see Clausen pick up was that he absolutely LOVED IT when Defenses tried to blitz him - he knew he'd burn them for it! He had great chemistry w/ his WR's & they scared teams into not blitzing for fear of putting an OU receiver in space, one-on-one. That's what I want to see from our passing game!

Nate - Great summary. I want us to put the Huskies on their backs & not let up till we're up big in the 4th qtr. Nothing personal against UW, I'm just sick of the apples-to-oranges comparisons that make ESPN's so-called "analysts" wet themselves from excitement. There's not a doubt in my mind that we're better off w/ Weis than Ty, and I highly doubt we'd be able to replace him w/ someone better (assuming there's any reason to, & Nate, you explained well why we shouldn't - we're on the up-swing!).

End Rant.
baIrish | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 10:37 am | #

NDgrad05-
Personally, I think the fact that we're ranked #10 with next year's recruiting class is good enough news for me. We're coming off a 3-9 year. 3-9! To think that this class would be as good as last year's would be naive. If we end up Top 15 we'll be in great shape, especially considering the 2010 class is supposed to be stellar, and ND is already making headway with the juniors.

Having said that, we are still in the hunt for a couple of D-linemen. The gentlemen you mentioned are both linebackers, and we're in the running for both of them as well.

As for OSU having 25 commits...anyone remember Alabama taking 32 last year? Guess who ended up with the #1 class.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think ND could even take 25 this year anyway, based on numbers graduating. Depending on what happens with 5th years and guys like Yeatman, I thought our max this year would be about 21-22.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 10:41 am | #

FightingOLdLadies,

I dont know where you are coming from,maybe you are Butch Davis' grandma. Weis hasnt coached up the talent? Clausen,much better, Tate, worlds better, Allen, very much better. But of course you want to take those people out and then say where would we be. I wonder how good a coach Bill Walsh was or maybe we should have taken Montana, Rice and Craig out and see if he would have been as good. My son, who coaches HS football in NC made a good statement to me this week. He said that Charlie didnt really learn to coach until last year. If you think about that, how much coaching do you really do in the NFL, where Charlie spent the majority of his career. You dont have to coach up talent there and the NFL is all about scheming. That is where he made his mistakes last year. Believe me, Quinn would have never been drafted let alone in the first round if Willingham had stayed. Everyone thinks that there is always another coach who could do a better job. 8 turnovers in two loses, that is not being outcoached in any way shape or form.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 11:12 am | #

I'm back and forth on Charlie. His saving grace for me is his recruiting. At the end of the day, with great talent you can be an average coach and win.

Charlies track record against winning teams, however, is not very good. He's 9-16 over his career -- or a 36% winning percentage. I know that stat doesn't mean much w/out comparisons, and his apologists are going to scream TY RECRUITS...but 36% is 36%.

I'd also like to touch on the obvious glaring failure of Charlie's offense, namely his refusal to establish the run. Against UNC -- a game in which we were AHEAD for 3 quarters -- his play calling seems a touch absurd: 48 pass attempts by clausen, 19 carries for all RB's combined. 48 to 19!!!!!!

Why is he calling runs 28% of the time in a game we're WINNING?? Honestly? Those are scrubs standing behind Clausen.

For me, the jury is definitely still out on Charlie.
ColoradoIrish | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 12:22 pm | #

Doug and Canuck -

My point, which I believe was simply stated,is that without our @1 QB and one top receiver, we don't win many/any games. Back to UNC : was their #1 QB in the game last Saturday? Didn't Mr. Anello shorten the season of their #1 Offensive weapon? So, they played without their respective Clausen and Tate-or-Floyd.

With that scenario, they still won. Totally attributable to superior coaching.

Lush -

You do live up to your name. On what planet, though?

I don't see a single bit of logic in what you wrote, but -- you are consistent! The 1964 squad was a near decade removed from top recruiting and winning. Aside from being wrong on that point, you lumber into your statement concerning the 1966 squad. That team won at MSU (minus its injured starting offense) by following the recruiting rules of the time. 85 players? No team ws so limited then. Other than you, no one made that claim, or, your connection to it.
Who used the term idiocy?

Ara isn't coaching today, he retired more than three decades ago. Your 88% WP/today's coaches - not applicable,
another point from another universe.

That poor performance of Ara's in coaching the 1974 Irish? Note:

CW's frosh year saw him cheering for a NC into the final minutes of ND's last regular season game. That 'bad' ND team of Ara's would meet up with another team that played for a NC just 12 months before: Bear Bryant's Alabama 'Crimson Tide.' In the Orange Bowl.

Sorry, Lush, your Bear didn't win.

Oh, and that crappy Purdue team? Very similar to Lou Holtz's first Irish squad. Lou's boys lost 5 games by a total of 14 ponts. Alex Agase's '74 Boilermakers were 14 points, total, from being an 8-2-1 squad.
Sorry to unveil another of your lies.

I do applaud your holding Ara to the highest bar of college coaches - your points prove he was, albeit in a meandering and less than truthful manner.

Hopefully your (pick one) [Vols, Canes, Trojans, Lions --- any Big 12 team-of-the-week] win out for you. Too bad you missed the great years that we Domers call the 'Era of Ara.'
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 12:53 pm | #

Here's a thought experiment based on some assumptions that I hope are widely, if not universally, accepted:

Assumptions - 1. Charlie's competitive advantage as a coach is innovative and creative offensive formations, mostly passed-based; 2. These formations are better executed by experienced players, i.e. pros or upperclassmen who have worked with them for a couple of years; 3. ND 2007 did not have the experience to execute these formations well and would have performed better with a simpler game-plan that stressed fundamentals.

Given those assumptions, would the proper coaching decision in 2007 have been to fit the game plan to the players, go, say 7-5 or 8-6, and play in a minor bowl, or have the young team play Weis-ball and suffer the hideous consequences (3-9), in hopes of seeing the kind of improved execution on offense we're starting to see this year.

Not sure I know the answer.
Mike81 | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 1:20 pm | #

FightingGMS;
I see the point you are trying to make, but I disagree. The NC QB had a great day-the first string wouldn't have been better. On our side, if Floyd hadn't played, maybe Kamara fully redeems himself.Back to the point I was making, you can't knock a team or a coach by saying "take away one guy..." I was at the 2005 USC game and we absolutely killed them with the rather significant exception of Reggies three cut back long runs. Charlie outcoached Caroll, and the team outplayed USC. The best player in the country beat us, and there is no asterisk in the books to note that.
We are looking very solid, and as others have said, the best thing that has emerged about Charlie has been his willingness to change when his first plan hasn't worked.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 1:32 pm | #

FightingGMS,

I can see your point, but I dont agree. We turned the ball over 4 times in the second half one for a score and one leading to a score. NC had a solid defense and a great front but we still passed for 385 yards. I dont think that Davis still has figured how to stop our passing game and if not for mistakes we could have easily won. I look at a team being outcoached when something is taken away or exploited due to great play calling. NC did very little on offense that someone else hadnt done, short quick passes, some perimeter running. I dont think any of their success, both offensively or defensively was attributed to stellar coaching on Butch Davis' part.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 2:12 pm | #

Brandon Tate was not UNC's #1 offensive weapon. Hakeem Nicks (the guy who lit us up for 140 yards receiving) is their go to guy. Tate was a return specialist, but was underused in the passing game, and only participated in the running game on reverses. So, UNC was really using a back-up quarterback...who was a former starter...and playing (in theory) on a longer field.
Matt J. | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 2:23 pm | #

Nobody cares about you watching games with your family. Boring. Worst thread of all-time.

This site sucks now.
Palin is Dumb | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 3:18 pm | #

FightingGrandmoms, I defy you to name any team in the country that would win consistently without their top three playmakers on offense. UNC got away without two of their three because they have a very good defense that turned the ball over four times, and even then they came very close to losing the game.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 3:21 pm | #

BTW, I did not coin Tybation. Someone at NDNation did. It refers not only to the low quality of recruiting, but also the severe shortage of numbers.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 3:22 pm | #

You can't compare Weis to Meyer at Florida and Stoops at OU because of the disparity in recruting practices, and I don't mean academic standards. The quickest way to turn a team around is through JUCO recruits. You can find high-quality upper classmen that fit the system you want to run. That is what Stoops did at OU. I am assuming that Michigan's standards are closer to ours on JUCO applicants, which is part of the reason that Rodriguez's teams will go through what we did.

With Florida, Zook left that locker room stuffed with talent because, suprisingly enough, he knows how to recruit. No question Meyer went in to a great setup.

As far as coaching up players, Brady's accuracy and decision-making improved dramatically after Weis arrived; somone already mentioned Shark's rise to the top; and wasn't it Mo Stovall who finally lost weight and looked like a top WR after Weis took charge?

All that said, I am not sure whether Weis got outcoached last week. It looked like we did not make any halftime adjustments, couldn't establish the run, but also couldn't make the passing game from the first half work. On the other hand, UNC made plenty of adjustments. But we have a young team -- so how much is execution and how much is scheme? I think we'll know for sure next year.
JM | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 3:40 pm | #

Canuck, Doug, Mr. Wednesday -

I don't think we're really that far apart in our feelings about this Irish squad. My point is whether or not our coaching could adapt to losing two of our premier players, the way other teams seem to. I had a bad feeling about what UNC could do, and I do believe that BD is the reason (I posted it here, with a prediction, last week). I feel that Butch Davis is doing that with his team, while Charlie hasn't yet got us through the "beat the ranked team" "win the big game on the road" "make the needed adjustment" stage. He's been with us quite awhile now.

Credit this team to leaving last year behind - they aren't tentative, and they are laying it on the line. They're learning, quickly, and are improving more -- week-to-week -- than most other teams. That's coaching, to a great degree, and I'll acknowledge that.

However, speedsters like AA and Golden Tate suddenly becoming 'slow' on kickoff returns is also coaching. That just shouldn't be; return field position is so vital and important, and we have the brightest players in the game, along with those two being perhaps the combined fastest and most athletic.

Sorry about the length of this. I'll give our team effort an A; I have to give coaching a C+, B-. If CW's coaching ever matches his recruiting, and I'm hoping that day comes, we'll make USC's recent run look like the play of our better interhall teams.
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 6:23 pm | #

Lush is pronounced "Loosh"--my nickname while I was a student at ND during the Era of Ara!!

Now if you wish to engage in a debate, especially with personal attacks (liar), you decided to debate the wrong guy:

1. You stated that the 1964 Irish team was the "least talented Irish team of all time". By deductive reasoning, every single one of Ara's other teams, all of Faust teams, all of Holtz's teams, all of TW's teams and even last year's team had more talent than the team that had a Heisman Trophy QB and was ranked third in the country. This isn't idiocy?? You are essentially saying Ara under-coached in every year after 1964 (except 1973). LOL!!

2. Your statement that because there was not an 85-player scholarship limit is irrelevant to ND's victory in 1966 against MSU is obfuscation. My point is simple--if any team today lost an All American center, an All American RB an an honorable mention All-American QB by the first three plays of a game on the road against the No. 1 team in the country, in all likelihood it would lose, regardless of the coach.

3. ND lost the game at USC at the start of the second half with AD's KO return and the 49 straight-point onslaught commenced. ND did not lose in the final minutes.

4. Nice try with the '74 Purdue team. They didn't score the 14 points you mentioned. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand gernades. I was at that game. ND's and Ara's performance were terrible. I never said the 1974 team was bad--given its talent, it underperformed!!

5. Rockne, not Ara, had the 88% winning percentage.

See your doc, Grandma, and have your meds adjusted!!
FightingGrandmas | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 7:01 pm | #

Sorry Fighting Grandmas--You had me PO'd enough that I signed your name to the last post.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 7:05 pm | #

"Hopefully your (pick one) [Vols, Canes, Trojans, Lions --- any Big 12 team-of-the-week] win out for you. Too bad you missed the great years that we Domers call the 'Era of Ara.'"

--Fighting Grandmoms

So, since I was born in 1976 and missed ALL of the "Era of Ara", does that mean that I, like Lush, am not a Domer either? Despite my living in grad student housing while my dad was there from 77-80 and my own '98 degree?
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 8:26 pm | #

Good gawd! Is this what happens when there's no game to look forward to on Saturday?

ND will not lose tomorrow. I guaranamathtee it!
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 8:58 pm | #

Wow does this schedule suck. ESPN2? ND? are you serious. People come up and ask me who ND plays next week and I have to say Washington. I can't believe nd went the cupcake route. What a shame.
schedule | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 9:20 pm | #

I'm sorry but whoever said Weis got outcoached is absurd. If your plan for victory was expecting 5 turnovers then you are not a great coach. Coaches can stress the importance of turnovers and teach the players to try and cause them, but expecting to win because of points off turnovers is a poor man's game. You can't expect to let the other team move the ball up and down the field and get a turnover every time. We lost the game. I don't blame Weis.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 10.17.08 - 10:47 pm | #

Lush -

You've only reinforced my points; thanks, but I never needed the help.

You're trying to say that the '64 squad was brimming with talent (but just lurking for a few years, huh?)
That team had a Heisman trophy winner. That same guy didn't play until after Ara showed up.

Ya' think that says somethig about coaching?

My point with the '66 team - NO team loses the players we did versus MSU and stays in the game, let alone ties or wins.
No team, unless its coach was... Ara.
[Do I need to write this in a different language for you?]

Purdue - you got pantsed. Sorry, the numbers tell the story, and any member of our '86 squad will gladly expound on that for you.

You missed a monumental game versus USC ('74). Why do I get the feeling that, when it comes to History, you're termed a revisionist?

Obfuscation, huh? Better luck next time. And I'll bet my soul that you didn't attend ND on a debating scholarship.

I think we're sticking with lush, as in blush, for the pronunciation. Gotta admit, though ... I loved your signoff!
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 12:13 am | #

Please don't ever wish a Butch Davis on Notre Dame. Does anyone remember Miami going on probation days after he left for the pros?

BTW how'd the Brown's do?
Brad Chicago | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 2:44 am | #

Last time:
1.You, NOT me, said the 1964 Irish team was the least talented team of all time? Answer this SIMPLE question. Are you saying that every other ND team in history was MORE talented than the 1964 team including the 2007 Irish and the only difference was Ara? Remember, ND was winning 17-0 at halftime against USC in 1964.

2. Regarding the 1966 MSU game, you just don't get it. My point is simply this. Ara, as great as he was, could not have done what he did in 1966 today because he would not have the depth of talent now with an 85 player scholarship limit. For example, if Matt Leinert and Reggie Bush did not play against ND in 2005, would USC have won, even with Ara as coach?

3. The 1974 USC game was phenomenal--if you were a USC fan. ND gave up 49 straight points. The game was in LA. I did not miss it. We watched the agony on TV in our dorm.

4. Regarding the 1974 Purdue team, I am not sure what talking to players from the 1986 squad will do but one of my friends was a member of the 1986 squad and he, too, will be quick to point out that you are clueless.

Actually, I have concluded that you know your posts are non-sensical and you are just playing with our heads.

BTW, ND does not give debating scholarships.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 9:55 am | #

Fighting Grandmas:
What the hell are you talking about regarding the 1974 Purdue team? ND was down 24-0 AT THE END OF THE FIRST QUARTER to a team that was described as follows in the book "Golden Glory: "The win may have cost the Boilers in intensity. They won only two of their next seven games and finished 4-6-1."
pangborn1977 | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 10:04 am | #

Hey Grandma:
Tell us about the 1972 Missouri game at ND that ND lost 30-26 to a team that gave up 63 points the week before. Point is--every coach has had difficulties at one point or another, even those who had a lot of talent.
MechEng | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 10:06 am | #

Fighting Grandmoms:

One follow up--In its 6 losses in 1974, Purdue lost by a total of 99 points, an average of 16 plus points a game, including a loss to "lowly" Duke and a 51-0 pounding to Michigan. Yes very similar to ND's 1986 team. LOL!!
lush | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 11:03 am | #

Anyone else just see Corso's Freudian slip in picking Notre Dame(he meant to say North Carolina) to lose to Virginia today? Seems that even when we have a bye-week, Corso wants us to lose! By the way, how does a man who was a horrible coach at Indiana, and who has such relatively poor football knowledge, get a job like that? Personality? Favors?
DenverIrish | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 12:49 pm | #

Anyone hear what Lou said last night that he had to apologize for? I saw a comment over on EDSBS, and it looks like it was something to the effect of "Hitler was a great leader too," referring to Michigan/DickRod. Can anyone clarify?
Domer Guy | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 1:47 pm | #

whether corso likes us or not, i actually like him.

although i wish that i could be watching nd right now, i think the bye week is great for a number of reasons. aside from the obvious, i think it gives the coaching staff a great opportunity to do some recruiting when many other coaches are preoccupied. So, lets hope that cw can snag manti te'o this weekend.
patrick | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 5:43 pm | #

a little bit of an upset brewing in happy valley
brian custer | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 5:55 pm | #

Suddenly our 2 "respectable" losses don't look so good. At least scUM continued their slide towards 3-9.
scott | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 8:19 pm | #

I really enjoyed reading Pete's post. Not so much the re-living of a disappointing game, but the prose was enjoyable and it made me laugh. A couple of other thoughts:

- Today was a stunningly beautiful day in South Bend; it was all I could do not to go tailgate in an empty lot.

- Pete Carroll has an 84.4 winning percentage at USC. He'd have to win 19 straight to get to 88% even, although he's at 89.3% since his second season. In any case, those are impressive numbers. I believe in the cycles of college football, and that either Weis or the next coach will establish some great years for Notre Dame.

- I think that Weis deserves lots of credit for working to change his style. Eric Hansen's article in the SBTrib today highlights another example of that effort.

- As a straw-man argument, I'd much rather lose to UNC and beat UW than beat UNC, get in the rankings, and lay an egg against the Huskies. Obviously it'd be best to beat both. Speaking of UW, they appear to be looking past Oregon State.

That's my long-winded contribution...
Louie | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 9:48 pm | #

Hey Grandma:
Tell us about the 1972 Missouri game at ND that ND lost 30-26
MechEng
---

Hey MechEng -

Was WAITING for someone to ask! Do you mean the game played in the rain - in November - at ND? That one? Mizzou Tigers??
(psssst...MechEng ....thought you guys [engineers] are known for being nitpickers? Pray tell us about Mizzou's last "score". I'm sure that, ahem, Lush knows! Wasn't the final score, by the rule book, 26 - 23, ND?
----

and....Lush

{FGM, to an off-set producer: "I know the web is wide open, but where do they find them? 10 days - Atlantis - to whoever finds him (Lush) making a valid point")

No doubt that YOUR 'friend'on the '86 Irish would agree with you about my being clueless.

To what matters: the HC of the 1986 Irish would feel the very same way about you.

As for Purdue '74 - the numbers are beating you son; it's a game of final scores and mine, not yours, add up. 14 points from 8-2-1. I win, you lose.
----

Actually, I have concluded that you know your posts are non-sensical and you are just playing with our heads.
--Lush

Lush - two days before it happened, I gave you the final score of our loss to UNC. I also detailed why it was going to happen.

You are the one flopping around here with erroneous statements about ND football. I'm giving you credit for knowing the Irish were in LA in 1974!
For all of our sakes, though, please quit while you're way behind.
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.18.08 - 11:26 pm | #

lush grandmas do us all a favor and back away from your computers and give it a rest already
tacoma nd | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 12:27 am | #

FGMS,
What is your take on Butch Davis today?
Doug | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 8:37 am | #

ND lost to Missouri 30-26 in 1972. PERIOD. Blame whomever you want, the fathom TD, poor officiating, whatever. By the rule book, ND lost. You are not making those excuses for CW, please do not make them for Ara.
MechEng | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 9:10 am | #

Are we really comparing two completely different eras of college football and trying to get a definitive answer? Ara was an outstanding coach, not as good as Rockne, and maybe better than Lou. However at the end of the day what does that change. Lou won a grand total of 1 National Championship in eleven years at ND. One. So give Charlie Weis seven more years before we label him a failure. Don't compare him to coaches from the 40's 50's 60's 70's, because the game is completely different now. If he isn't the second coming of Ara well that is alright as well. He is not supposed to be. Ara wasn't the second coming of Rockne, and he did alright for himself. I say we need to stand behind Charlie Weis because he is the head coach for the University of Notre Dame. He has and will continue to make bone headed plays, but this is his FIRST head coaching job. Cut the man some slack. He may never win a national championship at ND, but what that man gives back to the community of South Bend is much more important in the grand scheme of things than his national championship wins at ND, in my opinion.
Jerry | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 10:07 am | #

the UNC loss does not look so good now. Virginia has a few players, but overall their talent level is weak. UNC is now a bad loss and butch coached a horrible game. horrible.
belocki | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 11:21 am | #

Jerry:

An absolutely fabulous post!!!
pangborn77 | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 1:00 pm | #

Football is a game of emotion:

Vandy beats Auburn and has a letdown the next week.

Mizzoui wins big at Nebraska, first time in 30 years, and is not as emotional against OSU at home and loses.

The game against ND was a huge emotional game for NC. Is it really a surprise that they lost to a team on the upswing on the road the next week?
annon | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 1:08 pm | #

annon,
Exactly. ND went to Carolina and had to play a near perfect game to win. Carolina is a decent football team and it is hard to overcome mistakes on the road. Lou always said the two things you better take with you on the road is your defense and kicking game. Emotion plays a huge role in college football and when you are on the road you have to feed off your teammates emotion we had the advantage in the first half but lost it quickly. I for one believe coaches get way too much credit for victories and way too much blame for loses. As Bear Bryant once said, "Great players make great coaches." The next few years will tell if CW is going to be a great coach.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 2:53 pm | #

Annon;

I agree about what happened to the Tarheels this week. Being ranked, facing Notre Dame at home, and prevailing under all that pressure. This isn't the Notre Dame of Ara/Dan/Lou (not yet, anyway) , but it's NOTRE DAME! Must have felt like a BCS Bowl win to them.

Then they go on the road and have the classic letdown.

A painful learning experience for NC. Something we as Irish fans have come to understand intimately.

Boy, did the Buckeyes ever crush MSU. That score was somewhat flattering.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 4:06 pm | #

BC beat VT.
Pitt whomped Navy.
U$C kicked the living $hit out of Wasu.
UVA beat UNC. Brhahahahaha.
SDSU who took ND into the 4th qtr. lost a close one to New Mexico friggen State 70-7.
MSU and their vaunted running back Ringer got squat against OSU.
Purdue got whupped by Northwestern, yes boyz and girlz that Northwestern.
Penn State and their Octogenarian coach went into the "big house" and beat UM like a red-headed step child.
Stanford lost to UCLA. UCLA starts a Walk-On QB.
Now tell me again why I should be soooooooooooooooo happy with the Irish at 4&2.
Davis at UNC has a terrible roster.
Saban has made the quantum leap in ONE year.
UT, Austin, has been up for two consecutive Big Games & won them both.
The staff at BGI, will tell you how difficult it is to get up for two games in a row, much less 12.
What a crock of $hit. You play 12 games a year. 12.
I no longer expect ND to win. Just as I have for the prior two coaches & the same feelings I had for the Gerry Faust teams.
It doesn't change my love for the University and all it stands for.
It just slow-tempo's my enthusiasm for Saturday football games.
I don't realistically expect ND to defeat BC in Chestnut Hill, U$C in LA. thankfully UWA is abysmal beyond description and they might stand a chance against Navy.
Pitt, Wanny's revenge.
6-6 is that good enough for the new AD?
Is that progress over 3-9, you betcha.
If CW was a Japanese Samurai, he would have commited beef megamaki, or Subaru, or Ohioguyamaki, or Lo Mein last year.
They, ND Football ain't killing me. They killed my Daddy, I always thought it was the fact he was 83 and had a massive stroke, but I realized it was 3 years of Gerry Faust Football.
Over and out.
Masty.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 4:36 pm | #

Great rant, Masty! In agreeance with much of what you say here.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 6:39 pm | #

Hey Masty....Penn State won at home yesterday not in "the big house" and UNC's "terrible roster" isn't all that bad when you look at the young talent that Butch has brought in including some guys Charlie went after pretty hard himself.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 7:16 pm | #

big ND fan, but except for year 1, CW has not done anything that impressive... that you dont see from many other coaches at many other schools.
belocki | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 7:28 pm | #

UNC hasn't won at UVa sine 1981, long before any of their current roster has been alive. Also, UVa suddenly put things together and put a woodshed beating on Maryland and E. Carolina. So, this suddenly isn't such a bad loss for UNC, though that doesn't excuse the mistakes that cost us the game in Crapel Hill.
Matt J | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 7:44 pm | #

Let me see, USC beating WASU 69-0 the only difference between them and four other teams is the Wash St. didnt score. Penn St. has a pretty good team, doncha think, Pitt lost to Bowling Green early,Virgini Tech has been running through raindrops the last four or five games, their offense is not very good, MSU was beaten by the Ohio St team many expected to see this year.Northwestern is 6-1, Navy wont get close this year. USC, no one expects a win there. I believe UCLA is using a redshirt freshman at QB, alot of schools would like to have some of the talent at UNC, Texas, both games at home, Missouri possibly overrated? Oh Masty go back to Yale.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 9:00 pm | #

Many consider that ND football has been "mediocre" since the BC loss in 1993. How many top notch recruiting classes in a row has ND had since 1990? Doug is right--"great players make great coaches". For the first time in 15 years or so, ND is starting to get "difference makers".
pangborn1977 | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 9:22 pm | #

Masterson:
Would you seriously want ND to do what Alabama and Saban are doing to win an NC?
annon | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 9:24 pm | #

Ah, Jim Masterson, the posterboy for those who are so beaten down by Davieham (and Lou's last few years) that it wouldn't matter if we played a murderer's row schedule and went 9-3, it would all be gloom and doom and "the end of ND football"...

We'd all like to go back to 1988...the problem is, it's 2008. Tony Rice and Rocket ain't walking through that door. Neither is it 1973. Ara, God love him, isn't coming back to coach. Get a grip, people, and understand that things don't change just because you want them to. At least the few people mentioning Randy Edsall or Jim Leavitt understand you've got to have something better before you get rid of what you've got. Personally, I don't think they'd get us to where we want to go any faster than we are--you simply can't wave a wand and make things happen. But far be it from me to interrupt your daydreams of the '73 Sugar Bowl...
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 10:58 pm | #

Nate:

Good stuff. I know tradition is part of what makes ND great, but I definitely have to agree with you about people making comparisons to the past. Football has probably evolved more than any other sport, and you can't look back at how Ara or even Lou did it.

The only link to thepast that is relevant is that all of the great coaches won with great talent(the best recruits) and Weis is doing his job on the recruiting trail. Let's hope that the results continue to improve on the field.

Also, someone pointed out how much Saban has turned around Alabama in one year, but we all thought the same with Weis early on (it didn't last). Anyway, for every coach you can find that turned it around quickly, you can find another that took a couple years.
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 10.19.08 - 11:42 pm | #

Geez anon, my bad for mistakeningly stating that Penn State Whipped the Dog doo-doo ou of Um at the big house.
I'll say 5 Hail Mary's. And no anon I would not like to see ND as a poster parallel to Alabama. And Nate I am not shocked at the results of Bob Dvie and Ty Willingham, nor was I ever enthused by Coach Holtz at ND. Coach Holtz is a coach who for whatever reason always seemed to leave a mess when ever he moved on.

Do I expect ND to compete at the highest level of intercollegiate sports. Absoeffenpostively. They recruit well enough, the matter of developing the material seems to be the crux of the argument.

Yale? Yale Otis?
No Dougie I wouldn't take you to New Haven! What a #$hithole. It's Newark, NJ with a University.
Yale has been on a downward spiral since WFB graduated in '52.
Over and Out.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 12:07 am | #

And Nate, please don't use that tired and worn out expression of Rick Pitino's.
How about something originial?
I'll see your Tony Rice and Rocket and call with Clausen, Tate & Floyd.
Let's see if CW can develope them.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 12:11 am | #

Brhahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Say Hallelujah, say Amen Brothers & Sister.
The Loathesome Red Sawks lost tonight to Tampa.
I loathe everything about Boston and their miserable city.
Boston Clam Chowder, Boston Baked Beans, Boston Cod Fish, Boston Celtics, Boston Bruins, Sawks, College, Harvard(Cambridge) Kennedy, Kerry, Dukakis(sp) Lupica that dwarf who writes for the NY News.
Well boyz that puts a smile on old Masty's face.
ND football ain't killing me.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 12:23 am | #

Masterson:
Just what are you trying to say besides the fact that you have grave doubts about CW? Okay, tell us who your top 2 or 3 replacements for Charlie would be and the reasons they would be a good fit.
pangborn1977 | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 6:38 am | #

CW has already developed Clausen into a different QB in a season. He has already put up numbers as a sophomore comparable to Quinn's senior numbers.Look at the development of Tate and the early development of Kyle Rudolph. Did you really expect this team to compete for a national championship? The could just as easily be 9-3 as 6-6, but of course Masterson always looks at the glass half empty.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 6:56 am | #

not me I'm a republican. Amerika is the greatest country on earth. What a beautful hegemony.
ND should be sitting on top of the Football world.
Great facilities, great, great university. Great networking system.
They just have a blind spot when it comes to picking coaches. Don't ask me why?
I don't know.
Brennan.
Khuraich(sp)
Ara
Devine
Faust
Holtz
Davie
Willingham
CW.
That's 33% boys. It will get you into the baseball hall of fame, but it's kind of weak in football success.
As a matter of fact it's the same % as post Rockne.
Anderson
Layden
Leahey.
33%
Imagine if a Dept. Chair at ND was hiring at a 33% clip.
Half-full.
I'm a believer in re-filling.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 9:33 am | #

Statistically Speaking?
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 9:56 am | #

In the NC game, ND for the first time since late in '05 started to feel like that '05 team on offense. By that I mean: stoppable only via turnovers. We can now field 4 or 5 high quality receivers at the same time. We've got an exceptionally accurate QB, a line that can pass block, and backs who can pick up blitzes.

Further, I'd posit that we're better than that '05 team in two offensive areas right now: home-run speed at receiver and RB speed. The one area in which we trail than '05 team right now: experience.

It feels like the ND offense has ceased trying to be something it's not, and that's a good thing.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 11:40 am | #

Jim Masterson:

You may be an SOB but you're our SOB. You still bring it to the table, and that makes you great.

I'm sorry about the last ND football your Dad had to witness, but he witnessed some of the greatest, too, from what I've read about.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 1:23 pm | #

Small correction, Jim Masterson, San Diego State lost 70-7 to New Mexico, not New Mexico State.

Chuck Long fears he may have lost the team.

You think, Chuck?
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 1:47 pm | #

Who kidnapped Voice?
Dave in the Basement | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 2:35 pm | #

I think the Voice in the Wilderness has turned pro. At least I hope he has.

The other possibility is that Salome requested his head on a platter, and he met the fate of his online Biblical namesake.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 2:58 pm | #

I see you guys still have nothing to do at work either!Masterson, I hate that type of negative thinking about our opponents and therefore ourselves.It seems like many of the posters on this subject are older guys like me and should know better. Any team can beat any other on any given day. Aside from the cliche, its true. Conversely, how the hell does Ohio State not score an offensive td against Purdue. How does New Mexico score 70 against SDTU.These things happen, but there is no explanation.
Everyone gets up for us, even in our weakened state.Michigan State always plays well against us before going in the tank. North Carolina is a solid team- the report was that they outplayed Virginia all game but didn't finish them off.
What last year re-taught me was that every game is hard enough to win that it should be enjoyed, and not compared with a previous team's performance.
Here are some of my positive vibes for the week;
Based on last week, we would beat Missouri and Kansas without too much problem. BC and Pitt both look good so if we beat them there should be no whining about our weak opponents. Therefore, we will end up around 15-18 in the rankings going in to SC.
Here is my negative vibe- I wil be lucky to find an espn2 station up here in Ontario.
Have a good week all.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 2:58 pm | #

I'm in that situation, too. It's either go to a large sports bar, or watch a pretty inadequate 'GameCast' on the internet.

Did people in need find any reliable online streaming feeds for the North Carolina game. I recall that's what was needed for the UCLA game last season.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 3:39 pm | #

I found a solid video stream for the UNC game at justin.tv, though I had to use the ND radio station's online stream to get audio. I'm planning to try to do the same thing for UW, fwiw.
John | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 4:18 pm | #

Jim,

I thought the 33% figure was really interesting. I did some quick research to see how the number compares against some other big-time programs. These were quick counts, so they might be off slightly, but I think you'll get the idea.

I'm going to use the AP NCs as the criteria.

Michigan (sucks) is at 2/7 or 29% (or 1.5/7, but who's counting?).

Alabama is 3/13 (23%).

USC is 2/10. OU 3/13. OSU 3/9.

33% is damn good for picking coaches to win NCs (even if you didn't include O'Leary).

The ND coaches have unrealistic expectations and end up getting fired or deciding it is not worth the pressure.

Take Bo and Woody as an example. Combined they had 2 NCs in approx 40 combined years of coaching. Weis will need to win 1 to make it past 7 years.

Obviously we haven't had the success that we feel we've deserved since '88, but our history of picking good coaches is better than almost any program, if not the best.
John05 | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 6:54 pm | #

The week before MSU lost to Ohio State it played an undefeated Northwestern team on the road. How many games in a row can a team get emotionally up for?
pangborn77 | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 6:58 pm | #

Pang ask Texas. OU & Mo.
Boyz it's my rant and it's my way of venting.
I love me Notre Dame. Never went to the University, but grew up loving the whole program at du Lac.
I'm only kidding when I mention my dad.
He loved the Irish, and was a three year letter-man under Rockne on their track teams.
Never bragged or talked aboutit, but he had a attic full of memorabilia, before there was such a word.
Funny story. He was 80, never smoked or drank, and had a stroke.
It left him paralyzed on his right side.
He would sit in his wheel-chair and watch the Irish, when they started to suck it up big time he would go to change the channel, but his elevated leg would bounce off the tv.
I would then proceede to change said channel. We always laughed about it afterwards.
Great memories watching the Cubs, Braves on tv on their west coast swings. The beginning of cable in the early 80's and TNT & WGN.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 7:10 pm | #

It turns out that the fortunes of Notre Dame football do not turn on scheduling, recruiting, or coaching. No, they are much more intricately tied to the cosmos than that! Notre Dame football success exactly matches the solar activity cycle.

First, per wikipedia:

"The average duration of the sunspot cycle is about 11 years (about 28 cycles in the 309 years between 1699 and 2008), but cycles as short as 9 years and as long as 14 years have been observed."

"Hale's observations revealed that the solar cycle is a magnetic cycle with an average duration of 22 years. However, because very nearly all manifestations of the solar cycle are insensitive to magnetic polarity, it remains common usage to speak of the '11-year solar cycle'."

"The basic causes of the solar cycle are still under debate."

(For the rest, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hale_cycle)

The point is that magnetism on the surface of the sun takes 22 years to go from maximum N polarity, to 0 polarity, to maximum S polarity, to 0 polarity, back to maximum N polarity.

Now, while both max N and S polarities produce an equally-sized max in solar activity, Notre Dame football is sensitive to the difference: S magnetic polarity leads to success, while N magnetic polarity leads to mediocrity.
The Amazing Truth | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 7:19 pm | #

Consider these facts:

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ ima...nspot_cycle.gif

Solar Cycle 16: 1923-1932 (S Pol.)
ND Football Record: 79-13-3 (.847)
Winning Percentage Rank: 2nd

Solar Cycle 17: 1933-1942 (N Pol.)
ND Football Record: 65-20-7 (.745)
Winning Percentage Rank: 10th

Solar Cycle 18: 1943-1953 (S Pol.)
ND Football Record: 87-13-7 (.846)
Winning Percentage Rank: 1st

Solar Cycle 19: 1954-1963 (N Pol.)
ND Football Record: 51-48 (.515)
Winning Percentage Rank: 67th

Solar Cycle 20: 1964-1975 (S Pol.)
ND Football Record: 103-20-4 (.827)
Winning Percentage Rank: 1st

Solar Cycle 21: 1976-1986 (N Pol.)
ND Football Record: 80-45-2 (.638)
Winning Percentage Rank: 23rd

Solar Cycle 22: 1987-1996 (S Pol.)
ND Football Record: 95-24-2 (.793)
Winning Percentage Rank: 4th

Solar Cycle 23: 1997-2007 (N Pol.)
ND Football Record: 78-56 (.582)
Winning Percentage Rank: 43rd

Solar Cycle 24: 2008-2020 (S Pol.)
(Predicted)
The Amazing Truth | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 7:20 pm | #

Since ND's first consensus championship, four complete solar cycles have passed, and periods of success/mediocrity have corresponded exactly to maximum S/N polarity magnetism of the sun.

Critics will argue that 2 of our 11 consensus titles fell during the bad stretches. While this is true, they were both on the very leading or trailing end of the 11-year period, and a little randomness is inherent in the trend.

What does this hold for the future? Good news for now! It just so happens that the current solar minimum, as the field transitions from N to S polarity, occurred in 2007. The S polarity will last from 2008-2020.

Right on schedule, ND is getting good.

http://www.ucar.edu/news/release...6/ sunspot.shtml

Moreover (link above), scientists originally thought the cycle starting this year was going to start in 2007, but the new models pushed it back to 2008.

Remind anyone of anything on any football field that has been a year behind expectations?

The end of our pain is in sight. 2008 to 2020 is going to be full of wonderful Irish football.

Prediction: 144-25 (9-4 in bowls)
The Amazing Truth | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 7:20 pm | #

Wow, and I thought Jim Masterson's rants were a bit off the deep end...
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 8:10 pm | #

Seriously. Now I really HAVE seen it all.
John | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 8:11 pm | #

I'm sold. Seriously. Why should they even bother playing the games?

Here comes the sun!
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 9:30 pm | #

"The week before MSU lost to Ohio State it played an undefeated Northwestern team on the road. How many games in a row can a team get emotionally up for?"
pangborn77

-------------
hey pangs! didn't you post something about the post-ND performance of that '74 Purdue team?
:)
:)
(actually, everyone here is roaring, some I'm just leaving it at the above!
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 10:02 pm | #

The Amazing Truth

Interesting. Who was rated # 1 during the Solar Cycle 16. It includes most of the Rockne years. It must have been a terrific coach.
GB | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 10:07 pm | #

GB,

You may not like it...#1 was SC with a record of 89-14-2 (.857). They were coached by Gus Henderson (1923-1924) and Howard Jones (1925-1932).

However, ND was 4-3 heads-up against them during that 10-year stretch.
The Amazing Truth | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 11:01 pm | #

Amazing; Simply amazing amazing.
You sound like a fellow vet. Are you on Paxil & Xanax?
It's a wonderful combo.
Just joking y'all.

Could Voice be more disappointed then I? And is holding his fire?
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 11:28 pm | #

the amazing truth is Hitler was a good leader too.
mark | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 11:30 pm | #

So I go over to the Observer to see what's up on campus and there's a question for polling:
Who would you rather spend the evening with;
Barack 0bama
John McCain
Joe Biden
Mr. Sarah Palin.
Wise A$$. No wonder ND is 4-2
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 11:31 pm | #

The quality of comments on this board are in a nose-dive. Precipitous. Nose-dive.
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 10.20.08 - 11:48 pm | #

Right-on observation earlier re: New Haven.

Aside from Wooster Street (of course, that's a huge 'aside' to this world) one of the most accurate Elm City descriptions remains:
"New Haven, with terminal diarrhea, would be Cleveland."

The comments, indeed, are now near free-fall.
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 1:59 am | #

Hey Joe Subway - the reference to John the Baptist? now that's funny -
Tennessee Domer 78 | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 12:16 pm | #

Are we going to have the "Statistically Speaking: UNC Edition?" I look forward to seeing just how devastating our MOE was. Thanks, guys!
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 2:43 pm | #

I cannot believe that we had a week-off and nothing really constructive was entered here. I think CW is the only coach in the country to have fans criticize him during an open date. I would like to see us dominate an opponent from start to finish these next six games. I would like to take a lead in the fourth quarter and have to hold on to it, like SDSU but to rise up and either expand it or stop them cold. I would love to see the defense have a dominate game. I would like to see a kick return for a score. More turnovers by the defense would be great. I can't believe that Ohio St had 160+ fumble return yards against MSU. I would like to see us control the clock in a tight game with the running game. A come from behind victory would be great and to go 4-0 or 3-1 in road games. To make the game close against USC and to get a bowl bid. I believe we will end no worse than 8-4, good? not really, but a giant step. Remember 86,87, and 88. Losing record, to learning how to win, to winning. I would like to see this team learn how to win and expect to win by the end of the year. Good Luck Irish!
Doug | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 2:56 pm | #

Pluto is moving into Capricorn soon. Once Solar Arc Saturn transits Scorpio, picking up the Venus Uranus midpoints, you can expect a big year for ND football.
Jack Burton | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 3:39 pm | #

Doug:

Per bye week criticisms...

is CW a McCain guy or an Obama one?

Jim :

Per the Observer Poll ...didn't they mean MRS SARAH Palin??

All: Another "political question" . Which of the candiDATES would you go bar hopping with??

While Palin might be an obvious answer, I bet Biden wouldn't be too bad either .

Back to football.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 3:53 pm | #

Dana,

I think he is an Obama guy who acts like a McCain guy.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 4:23 pm | #

Doug:

He treats the military academies with respect....hardly Obamaesque.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 5:01 pm | #

Dana - touche!
chrisnd | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 5:13 pm | #

I would absolutely LOVE to see a shutout, a reasonable task against Syracuse at least (maybe UW?).

A quick look at my media guide shows that ND's last shutout was a 42-0 win over Rutgers on November 23rd, 2002. Since then, we've been shutout 4 times (twice in 2003, twice in 2007).

Shutouts against the worst team in the nation should be proof that our defense is becoming more legitimate.
Matt '09 | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 5:54 pm | #

Please, for the love of God, post something else. This thread is killing the internets.

I'm Nate, and I approved this message.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 7:34 pm | #

pooooooooooooooost please post, just a little
pete | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 7:53 pm | #

I'd go out with Sarah, I don't know about Joe. How much sillier could he be with a couple of drinks in him?
Obama would be as interesting as a fence post, and I apologize to fences all over the world.
Nate, let's talk ND football. What happened in the last 10 days that you are aware of, other then Yeatman's suspension.
CW. I love CW, I wish him all the success in the world.
He flew to Hawaii to see that LB. The kids a Mormon and probably will wind up at BYU. Maybe UCLA, Norm Chow's a Mormon.
CW goes anywhere at the drop of a hat for a kid.
He's 7-11, his last 18 games.
I'm betting he rolls 7-11 and finishes the season 9-2 and a bowl win.
Then 52 in a row after that.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 7:54 pm | #

I'm thinking Biden drinks Jameson's on the rocks...not bad but not Redbreast.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 8:05 pm | #

Fighting Grandmas:

Last time--in 1974, Purdue lost to Wisconsin by 14, 5-6 Duke by 2, Illinois by 4, beat 3-8 Northwestern by 5 (ND beat Northwestern 49-3), lost to Michigan State by 24, lost to Minnesota by 4 and lost to Michigan by 51.

This bears almost NO resemblance to the 1986 Irish.
pangborn77 | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 8:44 pm | #

Bar hopping with Palin? She's the kind of chick that flirts with you to see what's behind your back seat and then calls in a report to the hall monitors or excise police. Please.
indy | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 10:18 pm | #

pangborn77 - in your world of math, who's to argue?

BTW - anyway we can do a looksie at the 'ND Effect' on MSU? Seems like, just as the seasons and clockwork, it's happening again this year. Start good - Beat ND - then, go into the tank. They've been leaving our game a strong 2nd-tier bowl team forever. Anyway, that'effect' isn't limited to MSU, as has been evidenced on this post in recent days.
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 10:54 pm | #

Fighting Gms, did you hear the announcer say about MSU during the tOSU game "I don't see the same intensity here as they came out with against Notre Dame" or some such thing. I am SICK of Sparty having our number! And bye weeks following a loss and old posts are tough on us fans. "Boo Hoo" as Jim Masterson is fond of saying.
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 10.21.08 - 11:18 pm | #

The poll probably referred to "first dude" Todd Palin, no? I would guess that Coach Weis is for McCain, especially with Sarah Palin's expressed concern for special-needs children.

It's worth noting that Washington's 0-6 record came against the nation's toughest schedule, per Sagarin. ND comes in at #44 on the list, with the only UW opponent ranked lower being Stanford at #51. I won't be talking about shutouts until this Irish team shows it can win on the road. Given a bye week and the absence of Jake Locker, there are no excuses, but it seems like it would be easy to overlook UW because of their record.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 12:18 am | #

OC mj -

Heard the same thing. And it is always the case with them (MSU)maybe because they are perennial second fiddles in their state, we come early on their sked, and they lay in wait. But it really has gotten out of hand the last 9-10 years or so.

Surprisingly, this coach appeared set to take them up a level (they looked so solid versus us) but perhaps some Johnelle DNA remains in the building.
FightingGrandmoms | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 2:34 am | #

ND deserves to lose this weekend for firing Ty; this was a racially motivated move, given that ND had always honored the 5-yr contracts of its white coaches. It's beside the point whether Ty was good or not -- there was a double standard in that other coaches at ND (Faust, Davie) were allowed their share of losing seasons while Willingham was promptly booted.
HOOLIGAN | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 8:09 am | #

Coaches are coaches.

I know, that is pretty deep.
Dave in the Basement | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 8:22 am | #

ugh
yz | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 8:23 am | #

I spent my free week thinking about the future of ND football. In other words, how long until we contend for the NC.

I'm not optimistic. The passing game seems to have been brought back from the brink of death, but the running game was lost in triage. Most importantly, the defense hasn't shown indisputable signs of life since 2002. Sure, it's sat up a few times and passed some gas, but there are explanations for both of those. Our offense will be a treat to watch over the next few years for sure, but until we we get a defense that can carry the offense through the occasional slump, we're stuck at the second tier. As we saw in 2002, 2005, 2006 (and other years more scholarly members will point out), you can't be perfect when you only play on one side of the ball.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 8:26 am | #

obediah

I don't know if this thread will continue but you bring up a good point. I think our ability to contend for a NC will depend on three issues:
o Experience - If you look at the programs that contend every year for the NC, they all have a very experienced group of starters (typically a number of 5th year guys which their programs are built around right from the start) particularly on the OL and DL. Now in a given year they may be a little less experienced in a certain position or area but overall they typically have a very experienced program. This is obviously something that we have sorely missed over the past few years. CW was able to cobble together a couple of good years to start but it was at the expense of last year and to some extent this year as he had to use every available body to do it. He is currently in the process of rebuilding this which will be critical in the future.
o Depth - This is another area where the top programs excel. Where we might have one or two good receivers, RB or DB's, they have three or four and they can shuttle them if one goes down and they are always ready for the next year (it's interesting the RU, WV, and L'ville don't seem to be as strong as they were over the past couple years). This is another thing that CW is rebuilding and will be critical in the future.
o Speed - I think the final thing that separates the contenders from the pretenders is the speed of college game at this point. It doesn't matter whether you are talking about the QB, RB's, WR's, OL, DL, LB's, or DB's, you have to match the speed of the game. I think we currently see this in our inability to dominate the line of scrimage as we just don't have the speed built in yet. This will also be one of the most difficult areas to overcome as it combines recruiting, coaching and player development into every facet of the game and will probably be the one area which will dictate whether we can ever contend for a NC again.

Let's hope that we can.
Go Irish!
Paul | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 9:41 am | #

Thank God we have a game coming up and these posts can end.
captain jack | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 10:31 am | #

PLEASE POST SOMETHING
Adam B. | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 11:32 am | #

Seriously. Anything. Post anything. Put up a picture of a chief's fan with a bag over their head.
Mark | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 12:29 pm | #

Any new recruiting news?

Maybe a little Brad Lidge mention? I hear he was a walk-on for the football team. (Not really, just streching for something to be posted.)
Dave in the Basement | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 1:46 pm | #

It's definitely time for a new post when people start talking politics on a sports blog. Yuck.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 1:55 pm | #

Football.....let's see Purdue's colors were inspired by Princeton 's football success many years ago.

Ozzie Nelson of Ozzie and Harriet played football at Rutgers....

yeah we need a game soon...real soon.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 2:19 pm | #

I know bye-week is probably the best time for a little (necessary) break for the BGS boys, but it's always a tough pill to swallow. Gimme MOE! I'm miserable that I'm miserable b/c there's no new BGS news! I mean for the love of all that's holy - it's the middle of football season & we've gone nearly a whole week w/out a post on BGS! What was that sound I just heard? Oh, must've just been Rockne himself turning over in his grave.

Ooh, I wonder if Pat &/or Jay would take recommendations for their semi-famous, always enjoyable, & often lyrically-based sub-titles w/in their posts. In particular, I'm hoping they'll give a shout out to a certain Barenaked Ladies chart-topper if/when the next post refers to their recent time off...

Come back, BGS!

Go Irish; Beat Huskies!

[Go Ty; Beat Par!]
baIrish | Email | Homepage | 10.22.08 - 3:00 pm | #

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