To all,

Glad to get that win. This was a different team out there, especially on offense. Congrats to JC you definetely prove me wrong. Lets keep this momentum going for next season.
Watch out in 2009.
Go Irish
Jean | Email | Homepage | 12.26.08 - 2:36 pm | #

Hope you are right Jean. I thought it was super. Along with JC, congrats to Ethan and Darious as well. - Defense doen't usually get the press as much. Needed to give em a plug!
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.26.08 - 3:29 pm | #

Ding Dong! The streak is dead!
Big Brown | Email | Homepage | 12.26.08 - 3:54 pm | #

DOMINATION!!
Marco4ND | Email | Homepage | 12.26.08 - 4:53 pm | #

Nice way to end the season but I just don't see a big difference in ND. Hawaii was awful. They elected to try to rush the passer and play mostly single, man coverage and they don't have the personnel for either. Clausen through the ball very well but his passes were fairly well telegraphed. There was just nothing Hawaii could do to stop them. Now, an effort like that would have beaten Syracuse but I keep staring at our rushing yardage:65 yards??? Allen showed he can run up the middle on that return but most of our plays continue to be run sideways. Michael Floyd (didn't play vs 'Cuse) and tate are exceptional talents and that was the difference in this game. No, I have to give the O-line credit for pass protection, but, again, terrible strategy by Hawaii. Still, nice finish for the Seniors.
psdo51 | Email | Homepage | 12.26.08 - 6:38 pm | #

I love all the "Yeah, but it was just Hawai'i" comments. Before the game, every single one of you would have given your left...um...pinky for a 28 point win. One of the problems with this team (since the Gerry Faust era, at the latest, since I was too young to remember anything before that) is playing down to our competition. Even Lou (Stanford, anyone?) had issues with it. We wouldn't have beaten USC--but we weren't playing USC. We played Hawai'i. We killed them. Great job.

Do we still have problems? Sure. I'd have liked to see more rushing yards, but we ran so many screens those might as well have been rushes. For whatever reason, as psdo51 said, Hawai'i decided to try to rush the passer and play single coverage on our WR's. Not smart, but does that mean the win is any less? We've got to take advantage of that for it to be "not smart" by Hawai'i. I'm reall hoping the play-action deep pass on 4th and 1 was a sign that Charlie finally figured out he doesn't have the line toughness to line it up and push ahead--maybe I'm just grasping at straws there and it was an isolated call, but that was the call I kept hoping for everytime we went for it this whole season.

Clausen was out of his mind. You can't telegraph a pass when you scramble and throw on the run, and he did that--he finally bought some time with his feet and made a play downfield, instead of running out of bounds or throwing it away. His statline is amazing, no matter what lens you view it through. Saying "he telegraphed his throws" is reaching to criticize just to do so.

Great building block, hopefully, for the Spring. Get a new line coach, new OC (any thoughts on who CW has in mind?), and let's get to it. We keep showing the POTENTIAL--that's why this year was so frustrating. Go Irish!
Nate | Email | Homepage | 12.26.08 - 7:49 pm | #

Great win, plain and simple. Think of what a loss would have done to this program and fans in the off season. I've watched the highlight video on ND website about a dozen times and it never gets old! Had a merry Christmas and will have a happy new year.
BigE | Email | Homepage | 12.26.08 - 10:05 pm | #

A very much needed win...a small but significant, positive step that was needed to buy time to complete our recruiting for February and to build some confidence for next year..it shows that we have some excellent, young talent at the skill positions.. However, we still need to upgrade our blocking and tackling and overall line play on both sides of the ball..

In addition, lets hope that CW learned by this years shortcomings...
and makes the right decisions re his coaching staff...
Go Irish!!
tc'69 | Email | Homepage | 12.26.08 - 10:31 pm | #

I am not sure if you notice it, psdo51 (I didn't the first time watching the game), but several times on the replays of passes Jimmy can be seen looking off coverage and then throwing in the other direction.
Happy in Hawaii | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 7:30 am | #

any ideas (or rumors read....with links) on who the new Offensive Coordinator is going to be?
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 10:04 am | #

Nate, Agree with everything except "we should have run the ball more". We put up 49 points. That tells me the game plan was on target and they took what the D would give them. I don't subscribe to running just to get a statistical ballance. They did enough running to keep HI honest. You are right about improving the run game in the off season.
Hope this has a positive impression on some recruits.
Jim | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 11:22 am | #

I agree with Happy. Jimmy did a much better job of looking off his receivers, confusing the D, in this game than he has done all year. His accuracy was the best it's been since the UNC game. He moved around in the pocket, even stepped up in it too I believe, and knew exactly how long he had to get rid of the ball which he did brilliantly, there was what, only one sack on JC? Plus I didn't see any of the confusion that has plagued us recently about players not running the right routes, or JC getting confused and throwing deep when his receivers are pulling up short. He spread the ball around, I think to at least 5 receivers? Floyd only had two catches and still we had over 400 yards passing. That's impressive.

I agree the running game is disturbing. Charlie needs to swallow his pride and consider something else. His run plays are too predictable, but I think we have the personnel (OL and RBs) to run the zone-blocking scheme when we don't telegraph ahead of time our running plays. That's why I think you saw a number of ten yard runs from Jonas and Hughes, but you also saw some big hits in the backfield for 4+ yard losses. Well, that and running Hughes to the outside on a pitch is just a big mistake: save that for Allen, Cierre Wood, and Gray. Was anyone else impressed by the speed Gray showed out there? I think he's gotten faster since the beginning of the year!

You have to be excited about this team: if we can figure out the running game, and keep opposing D's off balance (Boise State is masterful at this, you never know what's coming) I think we'll do quite well next year. Now if only we could stockpile the kind of depth we have at receiver and running back at the tight end and defensive line positions we'd be set.

I'm also proud of our players for keeping the personal fouls to a minimum (Sergio Brown, however, needs more discipline) compared to Hawaii. That program is dirty and cheap, how many personal fouls did they have?

Go Irish, Beat everyone in 2009!!!
wkurtz94 | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 11:30 am | #

Here is a very good article on recruiting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/2..._r=1& ref=sports
GB | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 11:31 am | #

Any word on staff changes yet? The only thing I've heard as a pretty decent possibility is Ron Prince coming in to coach the O-line... that's per Pete Sampson on IrishIllustrated. Any updates would be great.

Thanks guys,

and hopefully they don't lemme down when i say this, but... HERE COME THE IRISH!!!
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 12:03 pm | #

Good comments wkurtz. What astounds me is the number of people now saying Hawaii is just a poor team. Same people who predicted they would win. That is so comical. What was the line? +2? Sorry they are a competitive team, not a top 25, but what I took from this one was Clausen did not make mental errors, neither did the team. They did not get sucked into dirty play and they closed out a game.

Jay and Pat, who do you think the OC will be? I do not think we will get a current and successful OC. They would be more in discussions for a head coaching position. Could be wrong, but don't think so unless he comes from the subdivision.
Jim | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 12:09 pm | #

Joe B. Who is Ron Prince?
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 12:13 pm | #

Would like to see Bill Kenney. He seems to be mired with just tackles and TE's at PSU, but has more than proven himself. Just nowhere to go with the tenured staff at that school.
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 12:22 pm | #

Love the picture of the boys and the fake helmet. Nice to see them having some fun. What I hope Charlie takes away from this week was the balance between buisness and letting the guys be kids. I feel we come out to reserved and flat most of the time and it shows on the field. It was sure nice to see the team come out loose, fired up and ready to play. How many days till September?????
VicPaul | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 12:33 pm | #

so does this mean Clausen and Tate are Heisman contenders next year?Also o you think Armando will break out next year much like Tate did this year?
oklaomer | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 1:04 pm | #

oklaomer, dont see any contention for Heismans next year. I am more hopeful for Allen having a breakout year. His speed appears to be improving and not because of the kickoff return, which by the way consisted of very good blocking.
Jim | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 2:08 pm | #

Every time I see Jonas Gray I think he looks the best of the rbs. Ironically I think it is Armando who may find his touches reduced next year. If Tate improves even a little, he will be Rocket-like with better hands and more power, and therefore a Heisman contender.
All we really need is one of the Oline to reach the next level, and suddenly we will run better with Rudolph and Ragone to block.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 4:25 pm | #

Observer Hawaii Bowl SlideShow
go1r1sh | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 6:09 pm | #

Anybody catch ESPN's Lee Corso today giving his opinion on the Irish victory and their outlook for next year? He is one major, major douche bag.
tridentum | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 9:13 pm | #

JP, Ron Prince is the former coach at Kansas State.

Any possibility ND would be able to lure Cam Cameron away from the NFL for the OC position?

And what about looking to the lower divisions for some coaching talent?
Mark | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 11:07 pm | #

A glimpse of the future??

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/ s...0,6803292.story
onehipdad | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 11:33 pm | #

ohd; I'd root for the Russkies if the above took place.
Think cognitively and get serious.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 12.27.08 - 11:50 pm | #

markey mark.
Ron Prince; OL for Cornell, OC, Va., HC, Kansas.

Cam Cameron; Didn't he pass on BQ as HC of the Dolpins?

Markey Mark & OHP get in the program & get your collective heads out of you know where.
You're making Nate, aka Audy Murphy, look like a genius.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 12:00 am | #

Ya, watching JC when he's clicking is great and he's done it in other games too, but it certainly helps to have the xcellent core of receivers he has. However the kid is still scary and unless CW can establish a running game next year there will still be rough/scary games ahead. Can he bring us from behind especially when he may be having a tough game and the running game isn't working? That will have to be a must if WE are going to have success. That's the maturation we need to see next year. Why can't we use misdirection in the running game, not wide sweeps or end arounds(well maybe Golden on a dbl pitch), or even the old Green Bay/usc power sweep through the TE seam, ya I know ya need a good fast pulling guard. Just wondering. It was rough watching our RB's get dropped2-5 yds deep never having a chance to get moving. These kids have the goods, we know, we see the flashes. The OL has to step up! Are the days of quick-hitting power FB's gone? The ones who always seemed to fall forward>Johnson, Bettis, Edwards. Just one old fan's humble opinion, or is it one humble fan's old opinion.
MayoGalway | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 12:18 am | #

Anon,
Making no statement, just sharing the news from Fla.
onehipdad | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 12:35 am | #

I'd still like to see Chuck Long as OC and QB coach (the combination of which would free up another coaching position). He was a great college QB at Iowa (setting a then Big 10 record for TD passes) and he did very well as OC, QB Coach and Passing Coordinator over his career at Oklahoma.

Go Irish!
GraceHall1980 | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 2:23 am | #

Thanks Mark.
Whoever they get will need a reason to be the OC at ND. Just because he is a successful coach does not mean that he would be interested. It has to enhance his career. A subdivision one may be a possibility otherwise we are likely to be looking at a position coach to make a step upward.

Not sure why Cam C. would be interested. It is not common for someone like that to step down to college for an OC job. You see it but rarely in the pro ranks and I can not think of a very successful one.
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 10:14 am | #

One possibility I'd throw out here is the current OC for Mark Farley (N. Iowa). 4 Years running going to the semifinal or championshiop game in subdiv. 10 years in the post season. 2 years beating Iowa when they thought is was a tune up game. Very strong on the running game. Just a thought.
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 10:23 am | #

Anon,

Ron Prince, former head coach at Kansas State, that is a quick summary to the question "who is Ron Prince."

To your second point the Dolphins GM passed on Quinn, not Cameron. One that has nothing to do with trying to get Cameron as OC. Two, passing on Quinn in hindsight is not a terrible decision. So I really don't think that means my head is up my ass.

JP, I love the idea of a guy like Farley, or even another man from the Iowa area Drake head coach Chris Creighton. He is a young guy who had a ton of success in D3 producing multiple All-Americans on offense and breaking a ton of records with Wabash college. Very Simiar to BSU's new coach Stan Parrish.

I don't think ND could get Cameron, I just know he's a respected offensive mind from the NFL, who's had some experience in college coaching IU. But, I didn't think ND could get a guy like Tenuta, especially considering he's not even a DC with the Irish. That's technically a step back. Also, to refrence Parrish again, he won a Super Bowl with the Bucs and ended up OC at Ball State, so you never know.
Mark | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 3:35 pm | #

...great win...but ND running backs still averaged under 2-yards per carry...trouble against a good team that has a defensive backfield...something Hawaii forgot to bring to the stadium...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 6:52 pm | #

Jim,

ND running backs had 27 carries for 77 yards, a 2.85 yard average. Closer to three than under 2.
Jon | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 7:27 pm | #

Mark; I meant figuratively.
Now let's not start clamoring for Romeo Crennel(sp).
The Browns had 24,that's right boyz & goilz, 24 yds passing total in the game.
Brhahahahahahahahaha.

And Mark; Hindsight, thy name is Bill Parcells.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 7:54 pm | #

Happy New Years Jim from RB.
Also Mark & all the posters.
May the year produce seashells & ballons.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 7:55 pm | #

I think Jonas is the better back.
He should get more reps next year
Mexican Irish | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 8:19 pm | #

1. Did anyone see the stat shown during the game. In the last 8 games of the season, ND's pass defense was 2nd in the nation!!! Whoa! Thats something that needs to be discussed, cause somthing is being done right there.
2. I agree, Jonas Gray is the best back they have at this point. He's a mixture of the other 3 in one, and he sees his holes and hits them better than all three combined. He should be the starter next year. Hopefully he'll show that in spring practice.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 9:27 pm | #

Here's to hoping for improved run blocking first of all before we get into who should get the bulk of the carries.

If we can learn to open up holes, I would have no problem turning around and handing the ball to: Hughes, Allen, Aldridge, Gray, Wood, or Riddick. Those are six backs that could all start if the were on 6 different teams IMO. Now let's get some offensive line play to accommodate the RB talent.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 9:52 pm | #

I think the multiple posts from Urbanites linking to Orlando/Miami/other sites with Meyer quotes about the dream job need to focus on the hear and now.

CW's the coach for '09, and the forseeable future if his team reaches BCS in 2009.

As far as OCs go, it's got to be someone Weis can truly trust with playcalling. Who can we say shares his offensive philosophy? And, beyond that, will the OL be coached to execute according to that scheme effectively? That's the key question. The passing game is in good hands (assuming JC makes good decisions and continues to develop his ability to look off). The defense is improving. The one thing standing between us and true greatness, IMO, is establishing a real running game. The bowl gets a mulligan from me because the early success running set up the play action, screens. and the plays to the middle of the field. Hawaii tried to make us one dimensional, a la MSU and Syracuse, but this time we beat them doing it.

Looking at 2009, I question whether AA is the right every down back. Is he really a one-cut back, which is what Weis's system calls for, or do we look at more reps for Gray or Hughes? Do we run two HB sets with Aldridge/Gray and Hughes, with Allen as a 3d down back/wheel route option? Will our OL, regardless of run blocking scheme, dictate action at the point of attack? As it often happens, OL play will determine this team's destiny.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 9:59 pm | #

My prediction on the OC position: The NY Jets clean house and Weis hires Mike Heimerdinger.

A whimsical prediction to be sure.

For the record, I also predicted that Farve would be one and out with the Jets after a late season collapse and that the Jets would trade for Brady Quinn as a replacement. So far so good.

Yes, I realize these predictions are silly.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 12.28.08 - 11:36 pm | #

@ Mike:

I saw that 2nd in the nation stat, and I had trouble believing it. How could that be, with how many 3rd-and-18's we gave up for passing 1st downs? Were those all the first 4 games?
Matt '09 | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 12:20 am | #

I see Masterson still wants to take personal shots, even though he signs in as "anonymous". Stay classy, Jim, and have a Happy New Year.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 12:54 am | #

If interested, I have some action shots of the Hawaii Bowl. Nice game and please beat SC! http://www.thesmokingcamera.com
Joe | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 4:23 am | #

Kris,

I apologize that he link is still up. I've deleted it numerous times because I posted the story for discussion a few weeks ago, but for some reason on my home computer, it always posts it. So I feel like a jackass, and whatever I think of the coaching situation, the bottom line is we are Notre Dame and I just want to win.

Sorry for the inconvenience.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 8:33 am | #

Hal,

Isn't Mike Heimerdinger (sp?) the OC with the Tennessee Titans and not the Jets?
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 9:11 am | #

Brhahahahahahahaha.
Nate, you must be in 'Army Intelligence.' The irony of all irony's.

Joe B; Nah, don't worry, rather a repeat then some of the thoughtless dribble coming from a few ND fans.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 9:53 am | #

Kris,
Not syre that AA is an every down back as well, except that it depends on the scheme and overall philosophy. If they want the identity of MSU or Pitt and run the ball 30+ times I do not think he has the durabilty. If they want to pass which sets up the run and he gets 15-20 carries, I'd say he can do that. I think that is what is being established wwith this offense.
Btw. I love the comments picking at the lack of running by redondo. ND scores 49 points, it is pretty clear that the game plan called for exploiting the HI secondary and still we are suppose to run the ball just so we can say we did it. The running game was effective for what it was used for. It kept the Warriers off balance enough for ND to amass 470+ yards.
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 11:36 am | #

Jim @RB.
Please weigh in on the running backs. Its nice to think positive for a change. Did you get to see Cierre Wood play at all.
Best wishes to all.
PS Great to see Michigan troubles continue. As my son said, lets beat them 38-0 next year!
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 12:39 pm | #

Knox,

You're right about that, of course. I meant Schottenheimer. Late night post.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 12:55 pm | #

..."The running game was effective for what it was used for. It kept the Warriers off balance enough for ND to amass 470+ yards."...

...hardly...against an even mediocre (top 60) team, they would have dropped back 9 players and challenged ND to use it's "running game"...

...it was nice to see a victory, of course, but I have a problem with equating this ass-whipping of a sub-par WAC team with a deficient secondary... and what lies ahead in 2009...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 1:16 pm | #

Correction:

...ass-whipping of the 2nd best WAC team...
Domer97 | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 2:40 pm | #

Nice to see the win, whoever it was against. Was it Bush I, or Clinton, when we last won a bowl?

Still amazed at how we criticize our running backs. Every one is a stud, most would start at any other program in the country. Yet, none will ever be successful with the poor OL we have.

No running back ever attained 'great' status - heck, 'good' status - without at least an adequate line. Our OL is that in name only - our backs perform to their ability only against truly horrible (read: UW) teams.

Ladanian Tomlinson would find it hard to break 60 yards - today - versus our competition, behind our OL. Nice Christmas gift in HI - once routine bowl 'W's are always better than 'L's - but this train wreck still needs loads of work.

How about a 4-year, $65 Mill (guaranteed) contract to Tony Sparano? NC in year two, and the dynasty is back. If I'm wrong, it'll be a NC in Year 1!
BowledOver | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 2:41 pm | #

...the tailbacks are three and a half stars...at best...most were injured in their senior year of high school...compare them with any top 30 college running backs and they come up short...compare them with any top 15 college running back and their lack of quickness and speed is embarrassing... Cierre Wood, from what I've seen this past year is very, very overrated...without quality running backs...we'll never be a top 25 team...mark my words...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 3:19 pm | #

...P.S. the whole WAC conference this year is subpar...look it up...including their bowl games...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 3:20 pm | #

If you go back and watch the highlights of the bowl game, note how many of the TD passes were off play action, where HI bit on the fake. It was a clear tendency in their coverage that Weis found and exploited. After Hughes started the game with a few successful runs, the passing game was set up off play action.

I don't care that it was Hawaii. That was our opponent, and our game plan exploited a weakness. If their secondary had been talented but their front seven weak against the run, perhaps the playcalling would have changed. Second guessing a 28 point win seems like sour grapes. It's a great momentum builder, and let's hope the team uses it to move forward, since all of us seem to want to keep looking in the rear view mirror right now.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 12.29.08 - 4:38 pm | #

These Jonas comments remind me of the Hughes comments last year. I'll trust the staff on this one, they see a lot more of him than we do, which is about 2-3 carries a game.
Jon | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 1:11 am | #

Jim might be right about Cierre Wood being overrated.

You just have to wait and see.
Mexican Irish | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 6:07 am | #

We'll just have to wait to see if Wood lives up to the hype. Wasn't there a similar hype about Jimmy? or Flyod, I hope Wood is the real deal!

When I first saw Jonas run the ball I thought that this kid would be buried in the debth chart.And then he fumbled against Navy......eeeh sour grapes,.. sorry. After seeing more of him on Christmas eve, my opinion changed abit. With the right coaching of the OL and RB's I think this kid might turn out to be a half decent back. I just hope he's learned to hang onto the ball. I could see things being mixed up after signing day in Feb., but we'll see how it all plays out.
NOEL | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 7:29 am | #

Jonas looked good, but if he were that good consistently, he would have been pressing Hughes, Aldridge and Allen for more carries.

Maybe our second team is better than theirs. I don't recall if Hawaii put their reserves in or not, or if their first team just quit on them, but our second team OL was getting a good push.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 8:30 am | #

Geez, people. So gloomy. Did anyone have fun watching the game? It was the last game of THIS season. Let's worry (and bitch and moan) about next season when the spring practices start. For now just enjoy winning a game that many picked us to lose. Who cares who the opponent was. WE WERE PICKED TO LOSE. BUT WE DIDN'T. AND WE LOOKED GOOD WHILE NOT LOSING.

Oh, one more thought, about the OC position: Mangini was fired by the Jets yesterday. Wasn't he OC of the Patriots right after CW? Wouldn't he have a much deeper and special knowledge of CW's offensive schemes? Well, if he's looking for a coaching job, I can think of worse folks ND could go after. I think it would be an interesting hire. Just throwing it out there. Discuss.
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 8:35 am | #

One more thing:

All this talk about the team playing loose because they got to just hang out and be free while in HI, and/or because CW finally just let them have fun, will not likely be a harbinger of a permanent change. These guys just finished finals. Their stay in HI was much different than real life on campus during the grind of a season. Please don't take last week as a sign that they have turned a corner and will be this loose and fun from now on. Getting in 8-16 course hours while pushing 20 hours a week for game prep is much different than 2 luaus and other touristy events. Just sayin'.
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 9:05 am | #

But again, it was fun to watch, I enjoyed it a lot. I'll worry about next season next season.
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 9:06 am | #

The game was a disaster. Going into the game everyone knew that we would win by 30. Well guess what, we didn't.

Did you see Clausen's fourth quarter numbers? They were way down. He barely even threw the ball. His refusal to throw the ball late in fourth quarter games in Hawaii is a huge concern going into next year.

Cierre Wood, frankly, was terrible. He ended the game with ZERO yards rushing. That's not a typo friends.

And the defense... don't get me started on the defense. I know you are going to say that Hawaii mainly scored in garbage time, but if you ask me anytime the defense is on the field it's garbage time. Because the defense is garbage. That's how bad it is, it's like garbage. 7 first half points allowed?

I can say with no exaggeration at all that if this were ancient Japan the entire Notre Dame team would have committed ritualistic suicide in order to save the tattered remains of what they pathetically call their honor after that so-called victory.
Majnun | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 9:21 am | #

Majnun: You get an A+ for the day. Nicely done.
The Song of Hiawatha Francisco | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 10:17 am | #

wood will be alright... but i don't think he's going to get a huge amount of carries like ppl think he is (prister from II). there is some older talent in front of him. please God let the line learn how to run block
robbie t | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 11:22 am | #

Indy,

I believe Mangini was a defensive coach (DB's to be specific) with the Pats and not an OC as you seem to think.
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 12:02 pm | #

Mangini was the defensive coordinator for the Pats for one season after Crennel took the job in Cleveland. And quite honestly, why would anyone want him considering that Weis, Crennel, and Mangini have all been disappointments on at least some level? Weis is the only one who still has a job!
Jade | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 1:01 pm | #

Not to beat a dead horse about Jonas Gray, but a couple of observations. He actually had a legitimate 10-12 yd run in every game where he was inserted, in situations where the D was expecting a rush. My eyes told me that he either beat guys to the corner, or made the first guy miss, both of which are notable in how infrequent that happened.
Secondly, I worry about the objectivity of the depth chart. There are loyalty factors, natural biases, and basic errors in judgment made by all coaching staffs. Remember 2 years ago, Junior Jabby was the best in the spring game, best blocker and screen runner when he got in, but he had been assigned the no.4 slot and nothing was going to change that.Does anyone seriously think that if a freshman or soph was pressing Sam Young that he would be given an equal chance? No way.
I hope the naysayers about Cierre Wood are wrong. We are due to get a break and have someone turn out to be a Knowshawn Marino or Julius Jones. I think he might already be here in Jonas Gray.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 1:32 pm | #

I stand corrected. Too lazy to look it up before floating the idea. I should know better than to skip the research.
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 1:38 pm | #

...musings...

...I proposed pre-season that because of a lack of speed and quickness Hughes and Aldridge should be taught how to block and be placed at the fullback position with Allen the tailback... (Gray showed that he should get some snaps at tailback also)...this season showed, once again, that the current fullback position is being wasted...

...how could the defensive backfield not be better next year with the graduation of Terrell Lambert?...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 2:18 pm | #

Sunday Morning Church Service;
Sunday Morning at Church The pastor asked if anyone in the congregation

would like to express praise for answered prayers. A lady stood and walked

to the podium. She said, 'I have praise. Two months ago, my husband, Jim,

had a terrible bicycle wreck and his scrotum was completely crushed. The

pain was excruciating and the doctors didn't know if they could help him.'

You could hear an audible gasp from the men in the congregation as they

imagined the pain that poor Jim experienced. She continued, 'Jim was unable

to hold me or the children and every move caused him terrible pain. We

prayed as the doctors performed a delicate operation. They were able to

piece together the crushed remnants of Jim's scrotum and wrap wire around it

to hold it in place.' Again, the men in the congregation squirmed

uncomfortably as they imagined the horrible surgery performed on Jim. She

continued, 'Now, Jim is out of the hospital and the doctors say, with time,

his scrotum should recover completely.' All the men sighed with relief.

The pastor rose and tentatively asked if anyone else had anything to say. A

man rose and walked to the podium. He said, 'I'm Jim, and I want to tell my

wife... the word issternum.'
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 5:22 pm | #

Jim RB -

You don't appear to have a grasp on the talent of this Irish squads' RB's. Hughes and Aldridge aren't supposed to be the fastest runners in the game, but they are top-shelf gifted, and more than capable of huge blocks of playing time were they playing at any other school.

Our so-so runbacks (ST's) and lack of a ground game are completely due to poor coaching. No more than 5 or 6 teams in college football match ND's talent on offense; yet, most teams far surpass the results we're getting. Tate and Floyd, on a team with a HS level QB, would be NCAA leaders just about anywhere.

If you're brave, watch a replay of the Syracuse game to see what is so readily apparent to everyone else. And, be sure you haven't eaten in a while.
NDNE | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 6:13 pm | #

...how can you tell it's a lack of talent vs. coaching?...the tailbacks have done nothing in two years. Even a blind squirrel runs into a nut now and then...being bowl season you get to see quick and fast running backs...and not all of them are playing a mediocre team like Hawaii...some actually look quick and fast no matter what their offensive line or coaching is doing...face it...the tailback talent is in the 40 to 60 ranking (out of 119)...against good teams Clausen will never shine...or have you forgotten the debacle that is the 2008 USC game?...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 6:54 pm | #

NDNE

I think you are right about this unless the recruiting services somehow made a mistake and classified ND's backs higher and the other 118 team backs lower than they should be ranked. They odds of that must be over a billion to one to have no ND back perform well. It is the OL and coaching. As I said before, ND was fortunate to have D. Walker since he had such great vision and could find the smallest crease. That was one of the main differences between Weis' first 2 years and last 2 years.
GB | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 7:15 pm | #

I guess now the main things between now and spring football are getting the last of the recruits and getting a new OC. After signing day, it will most likely be firing time and getting more new staff.
GB | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 7:18 pm | #

If ND got Shanahan as the OC, they would definitely have a good running game. :>))
GB | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 7:33 pm | #

How about?
49ers fire offensive coordinator Martz
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 7:41 pm | #

...if you believe that D. Walker was a top 10-20 running back...then I have a tract of homes I'd like to sell you in Phoenix...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 8:17 pm | #

I don't want Martz and his ego and baggage on a ND sideline we already have enough of that stuff with the current HC.

Shanahan...can't see him in college football but I'd love to see what he could do in Cleveland with BQ as his QB.
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 8:58 pm | #

Jim

I did not say he was a top 20 back but he could find holes. He would get 4-5 yds. He did not have the speed for big gains. Allen might if he ever found a hole.
GB | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 9:35 pm | #

Walker was a last minute add to that class, IIRC, but he did have the GA state record for TDs, eclipsing Herschel Walker.

Say what you want about him, he fit the patient, find-a-seam-then-make-one-cut style that works with zone OL blocking, he was great on screens (see 2005 Pitt and SC games), and picked up the blitz extremely well.

I don't see AA, RH, or JA having the same patience, vision and one-cut style--yet.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 10:01 pm | #

...you should forward your analysis of Walker to the NFL...wouldn't they be surprised...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 11:25 pm | #

...I challenge anyone that watches any bowl game...winner or loser...to tell me that any of those tailbacks are not superior to the 1.9 ypc trio that inhabited the ND backfield this year or last...

...even loser Nevada...who, as you know, we will meet in 8-1/2 months...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 11:29 pm | #

Forget about all the other coaches’ names that have nothing to do with ND and College Football.

There are two ND should be looking at for OC position:
Chuck Long and Mike Markuson.

Markuson

He was the OL coach and running game coordinator for the Arkansas Razorbacks football team under Houston Nutt. Markuson’s OL units was one of the best in the country. During his time there, the Razorbacks led the SEC in rushing offense for 5 consecutive seasons. He currently is holding the same positions at Ole Miss..

Connection? Markuson was G.A. at one of college football's traditional powerhouses (yes, we call that in around 90’s), Notre Dame under Holtz. He was given the opportunity to coach in the coveted Orange Bowl in Jan. 1990.

Think about it, the Irish running game coming back just like in the old days. If ND pays good money to hire him away from Ole Miss, he’ll fix the running game problems. His running game and Weis’ passing game should be a good marriage for an improved and unstoppable ND Offense in 2009.


Chuck Long, again.

Chuck Long was Oklahoma QBs coach in 2000-01 and OC in 2002-2005. In 2003, Sooners set a B12 record by averaging 51.5 ppg. And Oklahoma compiled a 67-11 record during his time there.

Connection? None. He’s a midwest guy. Long was Iowa QB for 5 years (1981-85). The guy knows midwest football and we miss a smashmouth offense like ND had during Holtz heyday. The kind of offense that would score 40+ ppg is what we need at ND. Long would be a good hire at OC position, imo.
NYC I22 | Email | Homepage | 12.30.08 - 11:50 pm | #

The win was much needed, there is no argument there...but there are also a number of facts that need to be reiterated before we start celebrating Heisman Trophies and BCS Championships.

First: This is Hawaii.
Second: This is Hawaii that decided to man-up all game...A strategy that INTELLIGENT and SUCCESSFUL teams will clearly not pursue against ND next year.
Third: Despite the fact that we played Hawaii, we still only accounted for a meager number of rushing yards. Until we can run the ball against a team of the caliber of USC, we're not going to have trouble (and will lose more often than we win) against teams in the Top 25.
Fourth: I realize that we had a very comfortable lead/performance, but Clausen's decision-making NEEDS to IMPROVE. Perhaps if we can/try to run the ball, that will help him enormously.
Fourth: The Offensive Coordinator is and always has been CW. After this drubbing, do we really think that he's going to turn over the reins (in reality) to someone who's not a shill?
Fifth: While we did have a few new wrinkles in the offense (some of our plays were along the lines of what Pagna recommended) the majority of our offense is predictable...Our running plays have absolutely no thought to them (wonder why that it?) and our passing plays are dependent on a defense that has either had trouble stopping our run attack or is completely incompetent. Again...we need to be able to run the ball.

That is all. Very happy about the performance, seniors, etc. Go Irish in 2009...BUT NO ILLUSIONS WE HAVE A LONG LONG WAY TO GO.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 8:44 am | #

Jim,

I was speaking about his college performance, not his pro performance. We have all seen examples of players who did well in college but not in the pros.

That said, for the time he did play in Houston, he performed well in 2007 on all those same areas on a team that was thin at the position. His issue is that he lacks pro speed.

Bottom line is that the combination of running back performance and OL blocking (be it scheme, execution, or both) is not where it needs to be, and all have a portion of the blame and thus the responsibility for improving.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 9:42 am | #

JimRB; Once again you detract from any common sense observations with your over the top negativity. I was not a big Darius Walker fan, but many comments herein are bang on. He had some type of gift that these past two years have brought into focus. He had better than average games against Ohio State, LSU and USC.
For some of you guys who are not stat nuts, you might be surprised to know that Darius got a chance the last 4-6 games last year (07) in Houston and put up very respectable numbers. He might have been close to 100yds one time.
You say just watching the bowl games shows you better backs. I agree that is how they look, but is it cause or effect? That is also how Jonas looks to me btw.
Here is proof of how a run game can work; last weeks Buffalo- New England game was played in a 40 mph wind. Both teams practically announced that they would not attempt a pass. Yet, both teams, and New England in particular, ran the ball very well. Neither team has a star rb. Thus, it had to be the blocking/schemes/execution. Why the hell Charlie cannot duplicate the New England run game is beyond me.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 10:52 am | #

Saw a report this morning that not only was this the highest attended Sheraton bowl in it's short history, but also the highest rated ESPN regional bowl ever. Stewart Mandel even referred to ND as an "auto-draw."

Think Colin Cowherd is going to go over these numbers with his listening audience when he speaks again about ND not being a ratings power?
This bowl game was a big heads up to all the pundits who think ND is no longer a school who can attract talent and draw fans.
Mark | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 11:32 am | #

Ed Smithe has produced a rather congent post particularly relating to the issue of why the hell anyone would jump for the OC position to run Weis' offense in college except for more money than the position is worth. Charlie aint gonna change, it appears. Again, gang, the problem is not in our stars. By the way, after the last game everyone should recognize that poor erstwhile leader of men, #74 simply can't play the game at this level at that position. Seems like a nice kid. I can't understand why they expose him like that
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 11:41 am | #

...as I don't wish to let my opinion get into the way of fact...Darius Walker was rated nationally D-1 35th in the nation in 2005 with 99 ypg and 21st in 2006 with 97 ypg...this came with a passing attack that was the best in over 20 years...he was undrafted and picked up by Houston as a free agent...HOUSTON!...who has never had a noteworthy tailback and still doesn't. Yet...Darius excelled on the Houston taxi squad until he decided to live off of his Lotto winnings...end of the Darius dream...

...yet...I'll give you one more opinion...compared to the trio currently "running" the ball...Walker was a regular Reggie Bush...

...we need to upgrade the tailback talent at ND, boys and girls...and, from what I've seen, I'm not too sure that Cierre Wood is an upgrade...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 12:12 pm | #

Jim/RB

Either you don't know how Darius got his money or you are making some sort of snide racist remark. Either way, shut the hell up about his personal life.

If you want to personally badmouth an ND player, I'm sure you'll find lots of friends at mgoblog. Otherwise, stick to football and post in a way that reflects the ND community.
Dave | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 12:31 pm | #

So it's been a week and the Blue Gray Sky crew hasn't put up more than a photo gallery? I know it's the holidays but there has been a ton of ND news to blog about... let's see something!
Joe from the YO | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 12:41 pm | #

This whole discussion on running backs is a bit off base. Running backs are important but linemen are critical. They are absolutely critical. And, Notre Dame has done a poor job of getting the big-time line recruits and, especially, of making sure those guys create holes. We have to move people.

I think Weis gets this. I really do. And, I think Weis understands that age isn't really the issue with the line. It's quickness and ability. And, for most of the last ten years, our linemen haven't displayed the kind of speed and ability needed to move people and create holes for our backs.
teo | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 1:21 pm | #

It's easier for a blind squirrel to find a nut than it is for a back to find a non-existent hole.

Linemen. These guys need to improve. If they don't we'll be talking about this next year, too.
teo | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 1:34 pm | #

Ed,

"Fourth: I realize that we had a very comfortable lead/performance, but Clausen's decision-making NEEDS to IMPROVE. Perhaps if we can/try to run the ball, that will help him enormously."

He had four incompletions, three of which were drops, in the bowl game. I think he did pretty well. Let's hope something he learned leading up to the game translates.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 2:29 pm | #

Jim,

As I mentioned, Darius's knock was his lack of speed for the NFL. He is still a practice squad player. He was released earlier this year by Houston, picked up by St. Louis, released by them, and resigned to Houston when Ahman Green was injured. So he isn't living off the lawsuit winnings.

As a college back, he was a better fit for ND's blocking scheme than AA, RH, or JA have been the last two years, and he performed well. His running style was suited to Weis's system.

When he was on the active roster for Houston last year, he played in four games, started two, and averaged 4.6 yds per carry, which is about what he averaged at Notre Dame as well. Getting close to 100 ypg in college when we were as pass-heavy as we were is pretty good. IMO, he should have stayed another year, but who knows how poorly he would have done last year.

No doubt he isn't lighting up the field as a pro, but I believed, and believe, he was a good RB for Weis's system. And I continue to believe that both the OL and RBs (as well as their coaches) need to be accountable for fixing things. A good back can sometimes compensate for bad blocking, and a good lineman can make a mediocre back look like a star. Both need to be where we want them to be.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 2:41 pm | #

You call me an idiot, but you clearly lack basic reading comprehension skills. I made no knocks as to your evaluation of Darius as a player. I made no knocks as to your evaluation of the football team. I used no profanity. I speak only for myself.

The fact remains you called fighting and winning a civil rights lawsuit, "the lottery," and that reflects poorly on this blog and community.
Dave | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 2:58 pm | #

Mark's earlier comment on the ratings and ticket sales of the Hawaii Bowl appears to have gone without notice. Looking at a somewhat-empty stadium was disheartening, but I guess it was still better filled than the first six editions of the game. I hope that the Irish fans who put forth the effort and resources to attend the bowl had a great time.

Looking at the other bowl games ND could have selected, it seems like the Irish made the right choice. I was among those who thought Hawaii would win, and I'm glad to have been so wrong. Along those lines, I thought Clausen looked much better than his previous six or so games.

My concern with Clausen remains that he seems too cocky. It's hard to articulate. Perhaps he embodies the greater concern that ND no longer has to fight to prove itself on every play -- a mantle that BC now holds? Does anyone else see that as a concern?

Regardless, it's been wonderful to watch the rest of the bowl games knowing that the Irish won, that the streak is dead, and that ND's seniors went out on a positive note. Good for them!
Louie | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 4:35 pm | #

BC and their 8 game bowl win streak went down today against Vandy. Our streak just started.

Still, it should be mandated that Weis beats MSU, Pitt & BC in 2009 or he's gone. I cannot take another year of seeing our team not prepared against our current rivals. I'm still hoping for Urban in the upcoming decade.
08/08/08 | Email | Homepage | 12.31.08 - 7:55 pm | #

Interesting article

This guy sounds a little like CB. If CW does not produce next year, maybe ND ought to consider him.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/0....html?th& emc=th
GB | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 6:20 am | #

Perish the thought, GB. Larry Johnson The Coach may be a fine fellow and great D line coach, but the young person that he, theoretically, had the most influence on, turned out to be a selfish, moody, whining, entitled brat. Talent galore, but not the solid citizen he, by all accounts, should be. Larry Johnson, Jr. is a blight on Larry Johnson, Sr.'s resume. Just mho.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 10:01 am | #

Voice

I don't know that much about LJ except that he is a very good runner. Thanks for filling me in.
GB | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 10:08 am | #

Louie,

It is hard to articulate Clausen’s demeanor. I was very concerned about JC when he was first recruited because of my built-in basis – I had seen the other Clausen brothers play a lot: they were cocky and they weren’t that great.

However, over the last two years, a few things about JC have eased my concern. He is tough, as tough as BQ. He has talent – we’ve seen glimmers this past season. And it appears to me that he wants to be great and is willing to do what it takes.
Old Fan | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 12:22 pm | #

Remember when ND used to play today. Hopefully, thing will change next year. They've accumulated a lot of paybacks that need to be redeemed.
memories | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 12:50 pm | #

Does anyone know if Manti Te'o attended the game?
Jake | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 4:40 pm | #

Old Fan, those are good points about Clausen. No one could argue with his toughness at this point. As far as arm strength and accuracy, I agree with you about his great talent. He'll have to win a few more comebacks and tight games to prove that he has leadership talent. Thanks for your comment. It will be interesting to see how much Crist pushes Clausen this spring. I'm not cheering for a QB controversy, I just hope that Clausen's seat stays warm enough to instill urgency.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 5:04 pm | #

I hope there is a lot of competition for the QB position (and for all positions), because that's how great teams become and remain great. That said, I believe Weis's offensive philosophy puts so much on the QB that an upperclassman has an advantage. Quinn made a quantum leap between So. and Jr. years, in part because of Weis's tutelage, but also in part due to his maturation as a quarterback--the game slowing down in his head, etc.

I recall reading how Weis had Quinn watch tape of the Patriots with Brady under center. I wonder if he would do the same with Clausen watching the 05 and 06 Irish, or have his RBs and OL watch film of zone blocking teams that move the ball effectively. Nothing like a little best practice transfer, when you can watch another team objectively vs. watching yourself on film.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 5:59 pm | #

I think Ron Powlus has secretly spliced his own ND lowlights into the Tom Brady/Brady Quinn reel. heh heh
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 6:47 pm | #

Voice- my worries exactly. I can just hear Powlus saying at a qb meeting "foot speed and evasiveness are overrated..." Do you remember the OT game where Powlus fell down backpedaling and sacked himself?
Seriously, I know that JC has the tools, but his head is still a question. Just watched USC-Penn State. Both Qbs ran well under pressure. Jimmy must learn to run 3-4 times a game.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 9:05 pm | #

Can someone around here please tell me why the Notre Dame AD is a fucking chump? Why does he allow USC to INSIST their game in South Bend occurs no later than mid-October (before the weather turns truly foul), yet when they play in LA, the game is played at the end of November????
Make USC play a football game in the cold and wet and snow!!!!!
irishguy | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 9:57 pm | #

I don't know who got it written that USC would not venture into South Bend after October, but they sure were smart. As far as Notre Dame travelling to Los Angeles, that was the master plan of Mrs. Knute Rockne, who thought it would be swell to spend every other Thanksgiving in a more desirable clime than that of Northern Indiana.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.01.09 - 11:27 pm | #

Do you think the result would be any different? I'd rather ND improve to the point that we're competitive no matter where or when the game is played.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 2:56 am | #

Kris, the heave to Golden Tate on his back foot was ill advised. Granted, he scored, but against USC with a two deep zone, that ball is picked off. That's one INT against a good team.

The second INT would have been to our TE in the corner, when he lobbed that one to him in double coverage. Again, against a GOOD team that's an INT.

The third INT MIGHT have come on that pass to Tate in the left corner for the TD. Clausen made an incredible pass into double coverage. We didn't need to force it...and again, against a GOOD team, that ball is going to be picked off 7 to 8 times out of ten.

I think Clausen clearly had one of his best games, no doubt. But he's not there yet, and God bless him, he has enormous faith in his tremendous ability. But I also have enormous faith (grudgingly) in the ability of a team like USC to make him pay for those mental errors. We need a running game...Period.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 10:10 am | #

Some comments:

1. Here in PA today, the Penn State nation, which HATES Notre Dame, is shocked and depressed. But PSU can take pride in the fact that, like ND and unlike USC ,which masquerades as a college for its athletes, PSU graduates its players. USC's focus on academics is a joke and how Carroll gets away with it is disgraceful.

2. Jim from Redondo Beach-- for 2009, it looks like again you won't let FACTS cloud your biases.

Happy New Year!
Lush | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 10:27 am | #

Ed,

I hear you about USC and two-deep, but against HI playing man, those were good decisions. He put those balls where only his receiver could get them.

If he makes that throw against USC playing two-deep, I question his judgment, but given the opponent and the coverage, those were good decisions.

So many of Quinn's throws were jump balls to Shark and Stovall, which would have been bad decisions against different coverages or personnel.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 11:33 am | #

Kris,

Throwing into double coverage and throwing off of your back foot...those decisions are nearly always ill advised. If you're not making good decisions against the bad teams, I wouldn't expect that he'll play smarter against the good ones that do a far better job of disguising their coverage.

Secondly, looking back over the SC game, I think that he made many of those same mistakes (which translated into his worst performance of the year).

Not to beat a dead horse, but I thought what was most telling about the post game following SC was CW getting up in front of the media and saying something to the order of, 'we were really surprised that SC played a lot of zone in the game since they're usually very aggressive in blitzing their linebackers.'

That to me says it all about the kind of coaching this kid is getting...and the prospects of developing an average running attack next year.

Look, I'm not trying to tear the kid down for the sake of being critical, but we've got to demand better. ND doesn't have to be perfect out there, but they're going to have to be a lot better.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 11:52 am | #

He had 4 or 5 tds, 4 incompletions, 3 drops, and you have just given him a 3 pick day. That's called overly critical
Majnun | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 12:01 pm | #

Ed Smithe:

Who is to say that Clausen would have thrown those balls to those spots against USC? I think it's safe to say that Tate is a superior athlete to anyone on Hawaii's team. That probably factored into the decision, no? You're definitely being overly critical.

Someone mentioned earlier that Clausen seems to be too cocky. Yes, he's cocky, but I kind of like it. That cockiness seems to be combined with a good work ethic and a will to succeed. Plus, he seems to me to be a good teammate. I like his confidence and attitude just as much as I liked BQ's poise. It's just different styles. It's kind of funny, because I was just thinking about this the other day: if Clausen played for any other team, I would not be able to stand him. But since he plays for MY team and I think that leads to a more nuanced view of him, I kind of like him the more and more I see him.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 12:42 pm | #

Majun,

He played against Hawaii and he made significant mistakes that probably would have cost us the game against a team that had a top 50 defense. If you're satisfied with mediocrity then I'm being overly critical. However, if you'd like to see Mark May and the rest of those fools at ESPN give ND props for being competitive against top 25 teams, I'd suggest that you balance your happiness with a bit of constructive criticism.

We gained less than 100 yards rushing against one of the worst defenses in college football. Celebrations anyone?
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 12:44 pm | #

Jade,

How many picks did have against SC again?

I rest my case.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 12:45 pm | #

Ed Your comments are not necessarily wrong, but they are negatively biased. Tate and Floyd (and Rudolph) are as good as any receivers in the NCAA. Therefore, even against a good team, you throw the ball up and let them make a play.Both Tate and Floyd won several duels throughout the year when the defender had pefect position.Did you read the little complaint from Hawaii that Rudolph pushed off/tugged a jersey on one of the big catches? That is what the good receivers learn to do. One of my criticisms of Jimmy's poor streak was that he did not throw it up enough because guys seemed to be covered.
Another great play that USC uses as a staple and which I have lobbied for all year is the basic slant, preferably to Tate. It is a timing play that is almost unstoppable, and with Tate there is a chance of a long run after most of them.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 1:43 pm | #

That wasn't my point. I think it's safe to say that ND was almost a different team against Hawaii than they were against USC, and it wasn't just the mediocrity of the opponent. If significant changes hadn't been made after the USC game(case in point: http://www.journalgazette.net/ap...GS02/812300206) , Clausen probably would have had your purported 3 INTs against the Warriors. You're being ridiculous. He had statistically one of the best bowl games ever had by a Notre Dame quarterback and all you have to say is, Well, I saw him throw off his back foot one time. No matter what you say, that's being overly critical, and it doesn't resemble constructive criticism. No one around here is satisfied with mediocrity, as you seem to think. Problem for you is, Clausen did not play a mediocre game.

I don't even know why I'm wasting my time arguing with someone who actually admits to caring what Mark May thinks.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 1:44 pm | #

Sorry. That link should be:

http://www.journalgazette.net/ap...OGS02/ 812300206
Jade | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 1:45 pm | #

Irish - Congrats on your bowl win. Who cares on how you did it, or what would have happened if you played another team? A win is a win. You earned, and now enjoy it! See you in South Bend next year (in October).

Fight On!
WeAreSC | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 1:53 pm | #

Jade,

I don't care what Mark May thinks, I care that he can legitimately trash this team for their poor performance.

Moreover, I'm not biased...I'm just not satisfied with their performance against a TERRIBLE team. Should I instead savor the victory that put us one game over .500?

Finally, the fact that Clausen played well is not a problem for me at all. It's not like I've come to this forum in the past and cheered following the SC game, or the UNC game, or the Michigan State game, or the Syracuse game, etc., etc.

What is a problem for me is that for the last two years, all I've heard from a number of folks on this blog and others is that the glass is always half full. Despite the REALITY that there have been mistakes made up, down, left, right, backwards and forwards with this program. A few weeks before this game we were DESTROYED by a team that didn't make it to the national title game. You're asking me to believe that everything is suddenly different now because we beat Hawaii? Was everything different when we didn't lose to Navy this year?

When mistakes are made, they should be corrected. And this is not about the FACT that Latina isn't the problem, or that Haywood and Powlus are shills, or that our brilliant X and O's coach can't put together a decent running game against a team that is TERRIBLE.

No, I'm sorry but I'm not biased. I'm just stuck on the things that we haven't fixed. The things that you absolutely positively NEED to be successful.

You, on the other hand, are stuck on the things that we do well. The things that got us 7 wins this year. I wish I could be satisfied with that.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 2:21 pm | #

WeAreSC,

Congrats to you guys as well. I hope we develop enough to give you guys a game next year.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 3:08 pm | #

I think we need to get civilized and add an “ignore post(er)” option.

On a fairly unrelated note, did anyone happen to see if Demetrious Jones got into Cincy’s game last night? I don’t know where he sits on their depth chart, and I didn’t see him in the game, but I only had it on as background noise.
Dave in the Basement | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 3:33 pm | #

And for the record, my "ignore post(er)" suggestion was not aimed at anyone in particular. I know we tend to get a little stir crazy once the season ends, and I'd rather have Pat and the crew spend more time on new content, and less time on policing the comments. :)
Dave in the Basement | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 3:42 pm | #

He had one of the top 5 best games of all time in a bowl game Ed. It was against a bad team, but they won 7 games, it's not like they are a bottom 20 team. I'm not saying we would have beat USC with the performance but it wouldn't have been Clausen's fault we lost. Not at all.

You accuse us of looking at the glass half full... well your criticism is much worse in the other direction.
Majnun | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 3:54 pm | #

I knew there was something sinister about that glass.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 4:31 pm | #

Jade, you nailed it on the Clausen attitude issue -- playing for the Irish, his cockiness is tolerable. On an opposing team, it is annoying. I greatly prefer Quinn's demeanor, and I'll accept that Clausen has to do things his own way.

On the topic of Charlie Weis in the press box, is it realistic to think that he could coach from there full-time? Would that be tantamount to operating as the offensive coordinator instead of the head coach?
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 4:55 pm | #

According to what I have read, Louie, Charlie thinks head coaches need to be on the sidelines. Given the results of the bowl, I hope he reconsiders.
Dave in the basement | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 5:38 pm | #

Charlie likes the TV face time he gets on the sidelines too much to go upstairs. Honestly. He never met a camera he didn't like. He got absolutely zero of Parcells' or Belichick's utter disdain for the media. Sure, he doesn't enjoy the tough questions, but he'll rattle on for fifteen minutes whereas The Two Bills will just glare with that "go eff yourself" attitude. How about when he's limping off the field towards the lockerroom at halftime and the pretty girl reporter says something like,"Coach weis, tough first half." And he says, "Yes. We'll throw to the tight end more in the middle of the field in the sceond half, so that we can get maybe make their defense not load up the box so much, then we'll look to get Allen and Hughes some better yardage up the middle." He can't help himself. Pretty girl + TV camera and he sings like a bird. Going upstairs ain't never gonna be an option for Charlie. I bet he DVR's the game, and then fast forwards through the actual ballgame in order to watch how he "performed" when the cameras were focused on him. Seriously.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 7:24 pm | #

No argument with your assessment of Coach Weis' eagerness to talk, Voice, but it seems like there is precedent for Weis also being willing to make significant changes. For example, handing over the play calling and trying to take a more "friendly" approach with the players. You have to think that Swarbrick and others have made it clear that Weis needs to do whatever it takes to get to the BCS next season.

It would be disappointing to have Weis say it is "ten times" easier to call plays from the box, and then not to seize such an advantage. My fear is that it is "ten times" easier to call plays against Hawaii than to call plays against USC. (I hope that the factor is only two or three times when comparing to Syracuse and Navy).

Anyway, like Dave, I'd like to see Weis give it a try.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 9:32 pm | #

Here's the challenge. Is that really where the Head Coach should be? A coordinator up there makes all the sense in the world. With the exception of JoePa, no other HC is up in the box.

If Weis continues with playcalling, I can see a potential reason for it, but if he hires an OC that shares his philosophy, knows his system and can call plays, why not put HIM up there and have Weis stay on the ground. That way, he can counsel Clausen (as he did with T. Brady and B. Quinn) and confer with other coaches on both sides of the ball--as a HC should?

I doubt very much that Weis's thirst for the media limelight drives his being on the sidelines. He believes that's where a HC should be, full stop.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 9:42 pm | #

Didn't the announcers for the Hawaii Bowl say that Weis all but told them that he has a new OC selected, and that the new OC would not be calling the plays? My hope that Weis is up in the press box is certainly contingent on the assumption that he is calling plays. If not, it would be an odd decision...

I really don't know enough about the on-field role of the head coach, and it seems like there's a wide variation in approaches. I also don't know enough about off-field responsibilities. Obviously, Weis would not want to surrender so many things as to make him merely a coordinator, but is the decision to be in the press box, by itself, too much?
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 9:48 pm | #

To take it further, it seems like Weis has done many things to make the program better, obviously including recruiting but also less tangible things like rapport between the program and the school community (if not between Weis himself and the school community). The outdoor pep rallies, the open practices after which players great the fans, etc., have been nice.

It's the game day motivation where Weis seems to have the wrong demeanor, and it would appear that Corwin Brown has the right demeanor. Then again, the fire that Brown has shown might not have been the right approach in a game like 2005 USC. At that time, Weis' bookish(?) and confident/cocky demeanor seemed like a plus for ND. Carroll spent the game ten yards onto the field and running from 20 to 20, as I recall.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.02.09 - 9:55 pm | #

Ed,

If you really read most of the comments this year, I have no idea where you get the impression most of the posters have the glass half full. The last half of the year has been almost unbearable because of all the drivel. The Irish played their first full game of the season in the bowl game. We know Hawaii isn't an elite team. Either was San Diego State or Stanford. However, the difference between the Hawaii game (one most of America picked the Irish to lose - including all of the talking heads) and those games was we beat them in all aspects of the game. People are pleased because we beat them on offense, defense, and special teams. I agree we need a better running game, but there seem to be a lot of people on this site who think unless we run for 300 yards you can't win. The running game only needs to be effective enough to keep the defense honest. Just like it was against Hawaii.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 12:45 am | #

Michael

I agree with you. I also think the running game should be more than keeping the defense honest. They need to average at least 4 YPC and be able to pick up a 1st down in short yardage at will.
GB | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 5:38 am | #

Here is a link of short interview with Haywood. He said the O did not do well because it was too complicated in the second half of the year. I am scratching my head a little because it does not account for poor showing (especially in running game) in the 1st half of the season.
http://www.oxfordpress.com/ sport...haywoodqna.html
GB | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 6:04 am | #

no new posts from pat or jay about this game for over a week?
Kyle M | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 8:00 am | #

As for Hawaii. No, their not an elite team. I don't know that I'd call them a bad team. I'd call them one of the worst teams in college football. Against the worst teams in college football, we were 1-1.

There's no reason to continue this further (and it would seem that some would rather the canary fell dead than continue to chirp in the mine). We'll just have to see if you guys are right, that one game doth signal a positive trend. I understand that faith is a good, decent thing...but faith is for Sundays...I watch my ND games on Saturdays...and I continue to be concerned.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 1:30 pm | #

I'm actually working up a few things as we speak.

Everybody stay cool. I'm deleting all the racially-associated commentary because it's entirely unnecessary.

In the meantime...it's the offseason, fellas. And a new year. Let's all relax a bit...I know we at BGS are. If all you want to do is wail and gnash your teeth, or attack other commenters, take it to one of the innumerable ND message boards. We appreciate lively conversation here but let's keep it intelligent and respectful.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 3:29 pm | #

i know this is a football board, but the uniforms worn today by the BBall team were the ugliest I have ever seen. plus ND lost to STJ, who are not very good.

those uni's were FUGLY
joseba | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 4:26 pm | #

No, the play of the basketball team was the truly fugly thing. Poor shooting, poor decision-making, poor preparation. Another Brey shitburger.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 4:40 pm | #

Guys:
For what it is worth the bloggers in the last two days on the Penn State blogs make the comments here look like Scripture readings. The venom against Paterno, his staff, his secondary and his program is beyond belief.

Some of you guys need to get a grip. Read the Rock Report for starters. So we lost to Syracuse. Yes, we should NEVER have lost that game. USC lost to Stanford (a 40-point underdog) at home a few years ago--biggest upset in this decade so far. Crap happens!!
pangborn1977 | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 5:28 pm | #

Basement Dave;

D. Jones didn't get into the Orange Bowl. From what I can tell, he only saw the field in the Bearcats game vs. Louisville this year, and not very much then.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 10:01 pm | #

Notre Dame just got a five-star recruit for the OL.
jp | Email | Homepage | 01.03.09 - 10:30 pm | #

Welcome Christian Lombard! Here's hoping that this 2010 class is Charlie's best yet. There is some real talent to be had in this class that are already really interested in the Irish.
Dylan Murphy | Email | Homepage | 01.04.09 - 12:41 am | #

Not Moi Pat!
Never ever,ever, never.
I may call Nate,Coach, but only in a joking manner.
You know I see Nate, I see the sign:
"Lift Arm, Grasp Handle firmly, Yank Chain."
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 01.04.09 - 12:08 pm | #

The recruits didnt do so well in the AA Game.
Only saw stuff about Zeke Motta.
Hes gonna be good.
Watch out for him.
Mexican Irish | Email | Homepage | 01.04.09 - 4:15 pm | #

Are the Irish done in recruiting for this year? Not a great showing in the AA game, but don't know if that means anything...

Hope the staff can show the ability to land d-lineman in the next class (and future classes), as well as the skill guys. Hopefully Cierre Wood can really play, because running back is a position that gives ammo those that say Irish recruits are overrated...
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 01.04.09 - 5:48 pm | #

I'm almost at the point where I could live with Charlie calling the plays again, if he hired an OC who really knew how to get his players fired up on the sidelines. We're missing passion It's easy to be smiling and up on the sidelines when you're winning, but what we need is a guy who can instill a belief and some heart in these kids when the going gets tough. I think Charlie lucked out in the Brady years because BQ and Shark and all those guys got along so well and seemed to serve that purpose for themselves, but with a young team, they need a motivator -- the kind that Charlie cannot (so it seems) be.
Heather | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 3:46 am | #

Thanks very much for the information, Joe Subway. I appreciate it!
Dave in the Basement | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 8:00 am | #

I thought Jones was a Northern Illinois Husky until you asked the question. I'd forgotten he transferred to Cinci after transferring to Northern Illinois.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 9:37 am | #

Funny how we still patiently debate where Charlie should be during a game, what he should be doing, etc., etc., as year 5 of his rain, er, reign, begins.

Wondering out loud if either of his predecessors had so loose a grip on the posiiton? And, where were we after year 4 of the Willingham and Davie regimes?

I bet that we were a tad edgy, and maybe wondering whether replacing one/both of them would be weis, er, wise move.
FightingSons | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 10:11 am | #

That was a very punny post.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 10:51 am | #

On the subject of Clausen throwing three picks…one of the examples was the jump ball to Rudolph. While I might agree that this example could have been picked off or at the very least defended, I would like to think that Clausen would not have thrown that pass if it wasn't fourth down and essentially a desperation move when the play broke down and he was on the run.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like Clausen's demeanor on the field. He's a bit cocky, but 99% of the time, he's celebrating with his teammates and not going overboard. As for him having a smug smile to the crowd while pointing to the ND on his chest, I have heard reports that the Hawaii fans were pretty bad towards the ND players. Even on the television, you could see stuff getting thrown at the players after one of the touchdowns. I was surprised the announcers didn't say anything, but you could see it.
ND Alum | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 11:34 am | #

Thank goodness all we have to debate about in the aftermath of the Hawaii Bowl is the nature of Clausen's facial expressions.

I like it when the players point to the little ND on their jerseys. I liked it when Samardzija did it after scoring a TD on October 15th, 2005 against the Trojans. I liked it when Clausen did it in Hawaii.

In my opinion, Our Lady's name ("ND") should be the only name on the jerseys. Holtz felt the same way. I think he even expressed reservations about having numbers on the jerseys, though I'm sure that's an NCAA rule.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 12:17 pm | #

Ed Smithe:

For the record, I don't only focus on the positive. I can see why you would think that from our little discussion, but that was about a game in which I truly didn't see much to be negative about. And I wasn't the only one.

Is Hawaii a terrible team? Yes, but that's the team that ND got to play, and they blew them out. They did exactly what they should have done. Is that something I "savor"? No, but I don't see a reason to feel bad about it either.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 1:23 pm | #

To Ed Smythe, et al: Here's one reason why we should all feel free to crow about blowing out a bad team: When's the last time ND really did that? Lately it feels like we struggle to beat the teams we should beat, and in several cases this year, failed to beat them (Syracuse rings a bell... UNC... maybe even Pitt). Indeed, Charlie treated 14-point leads like they were safe cushions this season against Stanford, which we were lucky to grit out, and UNC and Pitt, which we didn't. Even Navy came back against us. So good team or bad, the fact that we beat Hawaii and we beat 'em good is REALLY encouraging because this is not a team that wins the gimmes. And some might argue this game wasn't even a gimme.
Heather | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 4:25 pm | #

Great comment, Heather.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 01.05.09 - 6:24 pm | #