Welcome to the family, Good luck and God Bless. You are gonna need it.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 12:15 am | #

Charlie's job is literally on the line with this hire, so I would imagine he put some thought and care into it. Best of luck, Coach Verducci.
me | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 12:33 am | #

Time to see if Latina was to blame or not. Gotta believe that Charlie really likes Verducci, he needs good guys under him, and he is on thin ice. Also, how sad would it be if ND can only get b-list assistants?
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 12:36 am | #

Golf clap
Abe Froman | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 12:49 am | #

Michael

I always hear that Latina had a good resume. One time I looked at his record at Ole Miss (I think he was there but not sure) His resume seemed to suggest pretty good succes in pass blocking but not so good run blocking. Is this right or am I missing some part? Thanks for the update. I guess we will see if the past failures with runs are due to Latina or CW's scheme.
GB | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:31 am | #

I think all weis does when it comes to hiring assistants is call up his old buddies from his time with the patriots and asks them who he should take. Keeping it in the family again. Good luck, everyone on this staff needs it.
suave_andrew | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:33 am | #

"what is arguably the most important coaching hire in Weis's tenure"


Huh?

I have to disagree here.


1. 2005 & 2006 established that Weis' offensive scheme can put up points on other teams. In fact, the 2005 season was the 3rd highest scoring ND offense in the last 54 years (ie post Leahy era ND football).

2. ND's biggest problem is its defensive line. In all FOUR of Charlie Weis' years at ND, ND has struggled to shut other teams down defensively. Specifically, ND has been terrible at defending against the run.

To put this in the most obvious terms I can think of . . . every single year of CW's tenure at ND, has defensively been in the lowest quartile of defensive performance (points allowed) over the last 54 years (post Leahy) by ND teams.

The reason I use the post Leahy data, is because Weis doesn't have many 24 year old war veterans on the GI bill playing football at ND.

Seriously, everyone is fixated on OL performance, but that's not the biggest issue. Yes, we'd all like the run game to be better, but that's not the biggest problem in my opinion.

3. 2005 & 2006 were decent offenses at ND. 2007 was the youngest team in the ND's 120 history. 2008 ND's OL showed tremendous improvement and went from 58 sacks given up to 22 sacks (the best peformance by a Weis coached team at ND). OL typically takes the longest to develop and odds are ND's OL will be better next season, regardless of coach, simply due to age and experience.

Offense is not the biggest problem for Weis coached ND teams.

Charlie Weis needs to fix the defensive performance at ND or 2009 will be his last year as a Coach at ND.

And that starts with ND's front seven. ND needs more sacks and TFLs. ND needs to have better run defense.

I hardly consider an OL hire, "the most important coaching hire in Weis's tenure"

The data just doesn't support that claim.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:34 am | #

Best news I've heard all day. I don't know this guy from adam but he has to be better than Latina. Even going back to Quinn's days we've been terrible upfront. If it wasn't for Brady being such an athlete we would have broken the sack against record back then. I am sick and tired of seeing our boys look confused. Best of luck coach and welcome.
VicPaul | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:39 am | #

whoopee, it aint about the assistants. Hello???
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 7:29 am | #

"what top Jersey prospects with grades have the Irish failed to land recently?"

Justin Trattou comes to mind
finman | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 7:32 am | #

so turkovich is gone for sure then?
too bad.
i guess it's duncan or maybe romine.
wonder if trevor r can move to left tackle?
oakvilleirish | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 8:12 am | #

I tend to agree that I'm a little underwhelmed with this hire. Leadership and coaching is what is needed. I think teams like Utah have demonstrated that recruiting is a bit overhyped.

We need to find a coach that managed to do a lot with a little. At ND, such a coach will have a lot to work with in terms of talent, and will be that much farther ahead in producing results.

I would like to have seen a hire with a track record of producing dominating offensive lines.

I agree that this is a mission critical hire for Weis. I wish Verducci luck.
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 8:26 am | #

This is a terrible hire. Cleveland's o-line was awful this year, affording neither Anderson nor Quinn any time to pass. Maybe the run game will be better, but I doubt it. This guy has a mediocre track record at best, and nearly every head coach he has coached for in the NFL has been fired for underachievement. I didn't see anywhere that he was lured from a winning team to a team with a bad o-line to help turn them around. This is simply a bad hire, no question about it. Charlie Weis has lost the handle on what needs to be done to fix the problems of the last four years.

Hopefully Mike Shanahan will still be seeking employment in the winter of 2009, because I think a ripe college job will be opening up.
WyoMike | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 8:40 am | #

We don't want Shanahan. Let's see what we do this year before we crucify this guy, but I agree that I am not very positive on this hire. I think too much emphasis is being put on every coach being a good recruiter. I think you need about four or five of the assistants on a staff to be good recruiters to be successful at it as a whole. But there is another part of the game (the Xs and Os) that it appears we are somewhat forgetting.

I hope this guy works out, but I am a little miffed that Charlie's statement basically concerned how good of a recruiter Verducci is. But like most things, its wait and see.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 8:48 am | #

atepesm-

With all due respect, I don't think the DL coach position is one of the hires that should compete with this one in terms of the "most important." (I was thinking more along the lines of the DC spot when Minter was fired, the QB position, etc).

Why? Jappy is a bad recruiter and his coaching experience lies primarily with two-gap DL, with a lot of that coming from the 3-4. Now we have an aggressive, 1-gap defense where DL are trying to create penetration rather than tying OL up.

Anyone we hire will automatically be better than Jappy. He was dead weight as a recruiter, and this defense is a bad fit for what he coaches best. So, in my opinion, the DL coach is one of the easiest hires Weis has had to make. It can't go wrong-- unless Weis hires someone just like Jappy, which I can't see happening whatsoever.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 9:03 am | #

finman-

You bring up Trattou, but I don't think Verducci would have helped there. That was all about ND firing Minter, replacing him with Corwin and his 3-4, and Florida whispering to him that he would end up inside.

Had Tenuta been in the picture then, I don't think Trattou would have left our 3-4. And he'd probably be playing on the outside, rather than moving to DT like he's done down in Gainesville.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 9:21 am | #

Gotta go with WyoMike on this one. Track record as a coach is what should be considered, and this guy has been floundering up and down as an OL coach, OL assistant coach, TE coach. Which means he hasn't 'wowed' anyone with his OL coaching prowess.

And if he's been in the pros for the last 10+ years, how is it that he is regarded as a good recruiter? Can anyone say that recruiting these days is anything like what it was ten years ago when there was far less 'noise' from the internet, blogs, message boards, etc. that recruits could get caught up in? Where does this makes sense?
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 9:50 am | #

I think Charlie knows exactly what he's doing with the hire: more extended-family-coaching nepotism. Whee.
Matt J. | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:07 am | #

There is an obvious defensive line hire out there for ND....and his name is Rock Roggeman. Rock is currently the D line coach at East Carolina for Skip Holtz (take a look at that defense from last year.....their front seven got AFTER people). Rock played at ND in the early 80's, great coach, great recruiter....and probably most importantly, he has a PASSION for ND. He bleeds blue and gold like no one else you have ever met (his real name is Tom, but he was nicknamed Rock as a child after Knute Rockne for god's sake). Rock's dad - Tom Senior - was also a big-time coach (he was the line-backer coach for many years at Arizona and at USC where he was Junior Seau's coach). Hire Rock Roggeman!
conway | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:18 am | #

GB,
Agreed. Latina never proved he was effective in a running game at any job he held. I disagree with Michael on his post that Latina's resume apears better. One thing I am certain of is that Verducci's time at Iowa speaks volumes to me. This is a place no recruits want to come to because of location. Hayden Fry was exceptional at getting recruits that big name schools did not want and coaching them to be highly competitive. Both Fry and Ferenz have been steller in that regard. I believe that is exactly what we need. We need underperformers to be overperformers.
JB | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:23 am | #

Wow, the UND.com article was a lot more positive than anyone here. Even Michael's write up isn't very positive. Hopefully our pass pro will continue to get better and our run blocking will become dominant the way we have been hoping. The only problem I see, is that even if Verducci can properly teach our O-line to execute the zone blocking scheme well, do we have the right "one-cut" running backs to be effective? Both blocking and running needs to mesh. I think our verteran corps of runners will be up to the challenge next year.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:28 am | #

I am not sure where the Iowa fans are getting their info, but if you look at the numbers from each year he was head OL coach at Iowa, I don't see how you can be discouraged by this pick. Here are the rushing yards per game.

1992: 130.5 ypg
1993: 108 ypg
1994: 221 ypg
1995: 199.8 ypg
1996: 179.5 ypg
1997: 217 ypg
1998: 133 ypg (there is a typo in this media guide: http://hawkeyesports.cstv.com/sp...tatistics.html)

Every year but 1993 was good in rushing to great. By way of reference, 130.5 ypg (the total for 1992) would be about what Michigan State averaged this year (130.15). I think we'd all be happy with 130.5 or high and some of those other numbers are awesome.
The Irish Marauder | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:28 am | #

And if he's been in the pros for the last 10+ years, how is it that he is regarded as a good recruiter?

NFL teams have to be successful "recruiters" in terms of signing free agents. Whether Verducci was or was not a successful recruiter, I can't say.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:30 am | #

conway: Sounds good to me. Do you know if Rock Roggeman and South Carolina run a system that is similar to ours, or could it end up being a mismatch? Either way, we need someone like that.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:31 am | #

You can be discouraged by talking to the Iowa fans who followed the program at that time.

They do not credit Verducci with anything but being a good recruiter. They acknowledge the rushing statistics, but they do not give him one ounce of credit for that. I kept hoping that I would find one Iowa fan who said, "Yeah, the guy was a prick but he was a pretty good OL coach." No one gave him any credit for their OL.

Take it FWIW.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:32 am | #

I bet at least 3 hires that would've excited us turned it down (who wants to join a sinking ship only to move their family in another year) before Verducci's name was called. He's used to bouncing around anyways, so a quick year at ND will look good on his resume (and his wife can have an extended vacation in her college town)...

That said, it's nice to have any new face in there and I hope he kicks ass. Bring out the potential we know these kids have Tom...
Tony Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:38 am | #

Like a #$%@ I called him Tom instead of Frank.
Tony Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:42 am | #

Gotta believe strength and conditioning plays a big role in our performance (or lack of it) on both sides of the line. Can somone get us a strength coach who has players looking like offensive linemen and not competitive eaters?
valpodoc | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:47 am | #

Michael, You obviously have not talked to many Iowa fans. I live in Coralville, 10 minutes from the University of Iowa. Offensive lines during that time were solid. He was the line coach and would not have lasted long under Hayden Fry if he did not perform. Verducci ended up with no names and got them to hold their own against OSU, PSU and Michigan. You are dead wrong on this one.
Troy | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:50 am | #

there are maybe a handful of different ways to teach OL play and anyone around as long as Verducci or Latina knows them all, what the unit needs is "Coach New Voice" to get in their faces and challenge them to move the pile. The first offensive possession of 09 should be a team goal to run it every play right down the defense's throats and develop a mean streak ala Georgia v Florida last year.
sean | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:55 am | #

Troy,

I hope you're right. It'd be great if more Iowa fans like you stepped up, especially in this thread.

http://iowa.rivals.com/showmsg.a...sid=940& style=2

That thread is quite scary in that you can't find e even one good comment about his ability to coach OL. Everyone is negative. Now, fans are often negative, but there's usually a few who will say, "wait a sec." But not there.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:57 am | #

Perhaps Weis is protecting his New Jersey legacy (and considerable backside)with this hire!
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:01 am | #

Looking at the numbers and their relative level of success during his tenure, there really is no question that Iowa had a pretty good running game. I can't recall any marquee backs coming out of there, but he has had 12 lineman drafted. So if not him, the offensive line coach, who, exactly, is responsible for the success of the O-line during his decade at Iowa?
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:32 am | #

atepesm, I categorically disagree that the OL and running game aren't huge problems. This year, our offense collapsed after the Pitt game, because teams (i.e., Wannstedt) finally figured out that to stop ND's offense, all you had to do was leave only seven in the box and still stop our pathetic running game. Teams realized they could run a two-deep zone all day to take away our sideline fades and only rush four on passing downs. They didn't have to scheme concretely to stop the running game unless their front-seven talent was just woefully overmatched: i.e., Navy and Hawai'i.

Also, I don't know if people have truly grasped the huge impact the injuries at TE had on our team this year. Rudolph is a tremendous talent, but as a thin-framed freshman, he really struggled blocking at the point of attack. He'll improve with a year of weightlifting, and probably morph into an All-American and first-round pick. But this year, in a heavily TE-dependent offense, TE blocking was a liability.

I also agree that our running backs have struggled turning into one-cut, zone-schemed backs. This is coaching, above all. We have three or four five star recruits at running back, but you need to develop rhythm and timing in this system. That's tough in a back-by-committee set up, particularly with college kids. The lanes were there if you watch the tape - they just weren't there front-side, because our TEs were getting killed. Our backs didn't cut-back effectively.

As for defense, the numbers belie the improvement. We were far more aggressive in '07 and '08 under Brown than under Minter in '05 and '06. Tenuta has helped Brown flesh out his understanding of the college game. Yes, we lack the huge, bulky linemen that teams like Alabama and Texas boast, but we don't use their system either. There are coaching issues on the D-Line, and Jappy should have been canned, as he was.

As far as the Verducci hire, I think it's a good fit. He was in Cincinnati when Corey Dillon was breaking every record in the book against 9-man fronts. This was back before Carson Palmer, when the Bengals couldn't have thrown against a St. Mary's interhall team. Iowa was a great running team under Hayden Frye. My concern, if there is one, is this: we didn't need to shore up recruiting or X's and O's (which seem to be Verducci's forte). We need a technician, who can foster aggressiveness and attention to detail. Remains to be seen if Verducci can do it, but I have more hope than if we had kept Latina.
NDFan | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:34 am | #

I am also not very excited with this selection; he's been an assistant OL coach for many losing teams. He had a strong run at Iowa which looks like it has helped in get many other jobs, where he did not do so well. Let's hope he is better at coaching college OLs.

On the other hand, a little less timidity and a lot more shoving from our OL would make them look significantly better on 3rd and 2. Maybe he knows how to at least teach them that. Here's to hoping...
JM | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:36 am | #

Michael, I echo Troy's comments. I don't recall any IA fans badmouthing the offensive line coach.

What I do recall, looking back on it, is that Hayden Fry has a FAR BETTER collegiate coaching career that Charlie Weis. Statement of fact. And Hayden hired good assistants, guys that went on to success elsewhere.

I trust Hayden as a employer of assistants far more than Weis. So if Hayden thought this guy was good in 1989 or whatever year, I have faith in that, more than Charlie 2009.

Bottom line, we have no idea if this is good or not. But the IA track record gives me hope.
everloyal | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:42 am | #

Somewhere in the distance I hear a voice in the wilderness, only I have not been able to hear it?
Mark | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:57 am | #

Michael, there are one or two posts from Iowa fans defending Verducci, but overall, yeah, that Rivals thread you linked in your comment above is terrifying.
The Song of Hiawatha Francisco | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 12:05 pm | #

So, I read the Rivals post, and while there certainly is a lot of vitriol on there, it seems awfully subjective. They all say how the line regressed after Verducci got there, yet the numbers don't back up their claims. I also suspect that we are going to be running a much different type of offense than Iowa does. There's no doubt that we are a more prolific passing team than they have ever been, maybe 150 yds/g on the ground didn't seem to cut it for Iowa when they were averaging less 150 yds/g through the air??

Either way, if we can average over 130 yds/g on the ground next year, I don't think anyone will be complaining about Verducci.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 12:18 pm | #

The more Iowa fans who can respond, the better. They're the ones who saw Verducci up close.

When ND's former assistants end up elsewhere, and those teams' fans flock to us, I feel as though we give them a fair and objective analysis. I don't think that Iowa fans are that different from us, so the bigger the sample size, the better.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 12:23 pm | #

Romeo Crennel is still available...
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:01 pm | #

I'm not an Iowa fan and I don't know jack about Verducci. But I am heartened by how often guys in the rivals thread claim that Verducci was/is a prick.

Everyone said the same thing about Joe Moore. His linemen hated him ... until they got their first NFL paychecks.
Joe Magarac | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:07 pm | #

My favorite line in that thread is where the kid complained that every practice was like the National Championship. Shades of Jamie O'Hare in Rudy.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:24 pm | #

Sanchez to the NFL. Is Mustain the guy now at USC?
Greg | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:27 pm | #

Thank God if Sanchez goes. I thought he looked more impressive than the other leading Heisman candidates against Penn State.
I have no opinion about the new coach, but wonder why we never go to the source, such as the Fla line coach, or(my personal pet theory) the Navy oline coach. Similarly, who is at Okla or Texas? They outperform us year after year and it can't just be better athletes.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:36 pm | #

I thought Jamie O'Hara went on to have a pretty good career. I mean, he was in 'Swingers', 'Old School', 'Wedding Crashers', Gus Van Sant's remake of 'Psycho'.

He gets a bad rap.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 1:53 pm | #

Michael, those kinds of threads feed on themselves. If I wanted to hear a continuous stream of negative pissing about anthing Notre Dame, I would go to ND Nation and come away with the admin., coaches, players, mascot, town and everything else stinks. Did not see a great deal of intelligent comments, either.
Troy | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 2:04 pm | #

Sanchez is gone, McCoy is gone, Coach Jags is gone alone with almost the whole D, the RB from UCONN is gone and Dick ROD can't find a QB to run his high octane offense. So far a good couple of weeks
'09 is looking up | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 2:10 pm | #

LeSean McCoy is gone too. Next season may be great whether the team is any good or not, frankly.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 2:20 pm | #

'09 is looking up:

I'm an idiot and apparently can't read. Sorry, didn't see the first time around that you mentioned McCoy.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 2:21 pm | #

Javon RINGER and his 200 yards of pure ass kicking on our D is also gone.
'09 is looking up | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 2:27 pm | #

Wow, really surprised by all the negatives ... many of you spent 6 months wanting Latina gone, now you got it, and whine, whine, whine...

Don't know anything about this guy but can't imagine there are too many guys wanting to jump on this ship.. and also not sure any of us would want to be judged by the job we did 10 years ago... give him a chance.

Come on, stop the whining it ain't helping anyway. This is CW's make or break year, gotta give him some credit for forging ahead, getting a guy with experience at both levels, and already getting recruits for 2010...

Jenkin's and Teo are still out there and ND is still on their list, any last minute heroics for the Irish in recruiting 2009??
jmc | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 2:41 pm | #

There's just something about the name "Verducci" that inspires confidence in me. It kind of reminds me of "Lombardi."
Mike from Torrance | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 2:55 pm | #

If you compare Verducci's Iowa running game performance to Ferentz's, Verducci was a little more inconsistent (Ferentz didn't have any outright stinkers, while Verducci had a couple), but his peaks were better. Ferentz never produced the 200 ypg/5 ypc years that Verducci had.

I don't think it's a slam dunk that he'll be successful, his history in the NFL gives me some pause there, but I don't see how anyone can be negative about the hire.
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 3:37 pm | #

I categorically disagree that the Offensive run game is a bigger problem than the defensive run d.

Across the board, the defense has been terrible for all 4 of Weis' years at ND. However, when Weis has an experienced offense (see 2005/2006), ND produced more offense than 2/3 of all ND teams over the last 54 years.

All 4 of Weis' defenses have been in the LOWEST QUARTILE of ND defenses over the last 54 years. That means 75% of ND defenses have been better than ALL OF Weis' ND defenses.

Yes. It would be nice of the run game were better, but Weis runs a passing offense. Running the ball isn't as big of a deal as stopping other teams ability to run or more importantly, stopping other teams ability to score.

Defense wins championships. It worked for UF this year and it worked against ND in each of its last 2 bowl games.

Weis needs to improve the ND front 7 far more than he needs to improve ND's run game.

There's simply no seasonal statistics to prove the defensive problems aren't ND's single greatest area of concern. PERIOD.

Verducci's a nice hire, but odds are ND's OL will be much better this year, because of their age and experience. From 2007 to 2008, ND's OL showed tremendous improvement. I have no doubt they will do more of the same in 2009.

The same can not be said of the defense.

Look at the numbers over Weis' 4 years. It's plain as day.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 4:37 pm | #

We are window dressing for Jenkins...its between Florida and Penn State for him.
jason | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 4:39 pm | #

The defense hasn't been terrible all four years. You lost me at that point...
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 4:47 pm | #

There is at least ONE person offered the Notre Dame DL Coach job, and he is currently at OHIO STATE. Take a look:



http://www.cleveland.com/ buckeye...fickell_of.html
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 5:22 pm | #

there is at least ONE person offered the Notre Dame DL Coach job, and he is currently at OHIO STATE. Take a look:



http://www.cleveland.com/ buckeye...fickell_of.html
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 5:22 pm | #

Sorry, here is the working link.....what would you all think of this hire were it to materialize?



http://www.cleveland.com/ buckeye...fickell_of.html
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 5:25 pm | #

also have heard steve striplings name being tossed around
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 5:41 pm | #

Taylor Mays, Cushing, and Magula are all back for S.C. Don't see how we win if we can't score. Don't see how we score if we can't get a first down. Hope Verducci has a magic wand up his a--.
Steve | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 5:42 pm | #

and Alford (RB coach at Louiseville) as a candidate for our vacant RB coach position.
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 5:43 pm | #

and even ANOTHER rumor is Polian leaving to be special teams coach for the Indianapolis Colts.
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 5:48 pm | #

A radio station in Columbus Ohio announced this morning that Luke Fickle,former OSU player and now coach will join Notre Dame's staff.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 8:12 pm | #

Cleveland Plain Dealer in an 8:04 PM story posted on line tonight is saying that tOSU assistant is staying with the Buckeyes.
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 8:27 pm | #

I noticed something the other day, and I thought it would make for a great post, so I figured I'd float the idea here.

It seems that every year, Weis goes out and focuses heavily on one thing that he has to improve on.

After the first two years, with bowl games in which the D got torched, he knew he had a problem and spent the next two years bringing in Corwin Brown and Jon Tenuta. I think the D has gotten much, much better in that time than it was two or three years ago, when our secondary especially was just a joke.

He has done it with special teams (working with Beamer) and I think our special teams improved greatly, at the very least in the coverage units which were fantastic.

This year, it HAS to be improving the run game, right? I mean, looking at this team, I'd have to think that the number one goal heading into next season is to improve the run game. This is one step in that direction. What I wonder is if he will run on out to someone to do a coaching clinic like he has in the past in order to improve the run game even more, and perhaps tweak his running plays in order to improve them?

It should be interesting.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 8:28 pm | #

"The defense hasn't been terrible all four years. You lost me at that point..."


In all 4 of Weis' years at ND, his defenses have given up more points/game than 75% of the defenses ND has fielded in the last 54 years. On a list of all defenses from ND in the last 54 years all of Weis' defenses are at the BOTTOM of the list. Weis has fielded the 2nd worst, the 5th worst, the 7 worst and the 11th worst defenses at ND in the last 54 years (data based on points/game).

How are ANY of those considered anything OTHER than BAD?

You can only blame the offense for the defense for so long. At some point the defense needs to step up. Right now, we KNOW Weis can put an offense together. The same can NOT be said of the defense.

Defense is the problem people, not to OL.

Defense wins championships.

ND needs a SERIOUS upgrade on defense.






What about any of those Weis coached ND defenses makes you think they weren't bad?
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 8:48 pm | #

atepesm,

I wonder how many of those games came down to a defense on the field too long because the offense couldn't sustain drives. That seemed to be the case a lot in 2007, and our inability to run to protect leads led our defense to be on the field a lot in the 4th quarters against UNC, Syracuse and Pitt. In each of those games, I think you could point to a tired defense.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 9:11 pm | #

The DC hiring was far more important than this DL coaching hire. The replacement of Bill Lewis was far more important than this DL coaching hire. You're right that the defense needs to improve, but hiring the DL coach isn't the end-all, be-all. The fact that anybody who replaces Oliver will be a better recruiter and better suited to what Brown/Tenuta want to run.

So there's no way to screw it up, and as a result, it's not that important of a hire...especially compared to hires last year (replacing Lewis, a great recruiter and good teacher) and two years ago (replacing Minter).

That you can't even see that this hire is the third most important hire on the defensive side of the ball, let alone the entire coaching staff, is surprising...
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 9:44 pm | #

Looks like Mendoza gets retained. He is as responsible for the on-field malaise and lethargy as anyone. Latina is finally jettisoned, albeit 24 months too late, but Mendoza needs his walking papers, too. Sam Young has not physically progressed in three years, and he was considered to be the next Tony Boselli when he came out of high school. After three years starting (nearly 40 starts!), none of us were the least bit concerned he'd declare early for the NFL draft!! Why? 'Cause he ain't ready physically, and he still won't be one year from now if he keeps on doing the same things that Mendoza has had him doing since he arrived on campus in January 2006.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 10:18 pm | #

Finally the voice checks in. No comment on Verducci?

Sam Young won't be doing the same thing since 2006, because he already did something different last year. They switched lifting philosophies prior to last year, so I think he had 2 years of olympic style lifting and 1 year of "mass adding" lifting. Now if by "same things" you mean not getting stronger or nastier regardless of the specific movements, then you are correct sir.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:19 pm | #

atepesm,

Focusing on the defense isn't a bad idea. But the worst unit Weis (and possibly any ND team) has ever put on the field was the offense in '07. Much of that was the O'line's fault. It is become painstaking obvious that ND has trouble recruiting and developing O'line talent under Weis. The defense has shown a upward trajectory, IMO. The o-line has went the other direction.
Steve | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:30 pm | #

Atepesm,

For the record, I think that you can look at almost ANY team's defenses over the past couple years and you would find that teams are statistically putting up some of the worst defenses in college football history. Offenses are no longer playing ball control, 3 yards and a cloud of dust anymore. Hell, OU went to the championship game and they were giving up 24 points a game (similar to us I believe).

I'm not defending the defense under Weis or saying you are wrong. I'm just saying that there is more to it than numbers, since the evolution of the spread offense and increasing reliance on the passing game in college football as a equalizer against morre talented foes has changed the pacing at which the game is currently played at.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:41 pm | #

Brad's post is spot on, the more relevant stats would be where ND ranked nationally the last four years in defense. And whatever measuring stick is used, you'd have to take into account the putrid offensive play that was good for 53 three-and-outs per game.

The front seven need work, no question. But anyone who doesn't realize that the offensive line is THE problem on ND the last two years should go back and watch tapes of all the games. **shudder**
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 1:40 am | #

Brad's post IS spot on, but it's also common sense. Reading over these comments it was shocking to me that apetism was comparing apples to rollerskates like that.

That said, the defense needs improvement, and has never been dominant.
Majnun | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 9:58 am | #

It will be interesting to see how this works out (if it works out). As we've found out, zone blocking is not exactly the easiest scheme to work with our players (or with any players for that matter given its complexity). Moreover, it really requires an intelligent and talented running back (the latter of which we don't have) to find the holes that are supposed to open up.

If this scheme fails, we'll know right away. The real problem is that if we zone block like we did the last few seasons, we're going to be in deeper trouble with the running game than we were during Latina's tenure. I think it's fairly obvious that this guy's strengths are not with vanilla run blocking plays (the kind that most teams will have a foundation of their running attack). Latina, given his success elsewhere could coach that scheme.

The larger issue though is what does this say about Charlie...Well, like I and other have been counseling, it says that he believes that his system is not at fault, but rather the execution of that system. To me that almost sounds like someone who argues that Communism wasn't ever really at fault in the Soviet Union, rather it was the execution of it. Granted, Football is all about execution...but the issue is whether or not that execution is out of the range of the players that you've lined up. So far the answer in ND's case is that it most clearly is in its current form.

Next season (by perhaps the 2nd game) we will finally have an answer as to whether or not it is Charlie who is the problem, or simply the people around him. Like Willingham, he's planted his flag and made a stand for what he believes is best for this team. For all of us, I think we should take him up on that decision...that the buck finally stops with Charlie Weis.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 11:50 am | #

So you don't think our running backs are talented??

I think most would disagree with that assessment. There's a reason why no one has been calling for the collective heads of Hughes, Allen, and Aldridge- and that reason just got relieved of command this week.

We've got three highly regarded tailbacks on the team right now, with arguably the best rb recruit in the country coming in next year. The talent is there.
NavyJoe | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 12:09 pm | #

Ed Smithe,

I would strongly disagree with your notions of the zone blocking scheme. Zone blocking came about as a response to making blocking schemes EASIER for linemen to understand. I would wholly disagree with the notion that it is more complicated or takes smarter linemen to run. While "man on man" blocking sounds easy in theory, at the line of scrimmage it requires Olinemen to quickly use a complicated set of rules to figure out WHO that man is. When you have a pulling guard, a shifting defense, or a LB lined up over you, it can become extremely complicated.

The entire idea behind the creation of zone blocking is to let the Oline think less and focus more on playing.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 12:09 pm | #

P.S. That isn't to say that I think the system works well for OUR players. That's a totally different issue. I was just pointing out that calling zone blocking more complicated is incorrect in my opinion (though, of course, that depends on how they run it, as all schemes are a little different).
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 12:12 pm | #

Here is a hypothesis out of left field:

Do you think the O-line and D-line underperformance may have nothing to do with coaching, BUT have to do with ND being extremely vigilant about their atheletes NOT using performance enhancing drugs (i.e. for building strength/bulk)???

I have nothing to back up this hypothesis other than a "very solid" HUNCH.

IF this were the case, would you love Notre Dame football any less?
Jimmy Two-Times | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 12:34 pm | #

Jimmy
I would say, that atheletes know the consequences on preformance enhacing drugs. The cons far out way the pros. I would respect the team less for being all juiced up. Although doping does happen at some schools, a good strenght and conditioning coach is needed at ND. I'm not sure if he has to be independent of the football team because of the offseason practice rules the NCAA has.

welcome to the family coach Verducci, good luck!
NOEL | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 1:05 pm | #

And to add to what Brad is saying, many of the mistakes we made involving our blocks involved the FB, the TE, and one OL.

It was rarely two OL getting confused over the same player.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 1:36 pm | #

Maybe the cracks are starting in LALA land. Check out the class of our favorite fluffy. This should help him with recriuting! LOL

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com...roll/ index.html
ND67Aquajock | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 1:39 pm | #

ugghghgh

certainly appears to be the resume of the 'sure thing' hire weis so desperately needed for his under-performing, much maligned O-line.

anyone really believe Verducci's track record signals big things to come for the irish offensive line? (recruiting, running, passing or otherwise?)

lets just hope Verducci can pull his best 'Arizona Cardinal' impression and reinvent himself for what is effectively 'The Playoffs' of his career.
ColoradoIrish | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 1:51 pm | #

Wow, what a great article on the Poodle. I bet PC thinks the rest of his QBs are crap and that's why he wanted Sanchez to stay so badly. If PC thought he had the next Heisman winner waiting in the wings, he would have just said "peace out" to Sanchez and focused his efforts on his next protege.

Also, since when is someone who has been at a school for 4 years and is going to graduate in the spring considered to be "leaving early"? Maybe it's my Notre Dame perspective, but isn't Sanchez just "forgoing his 5th year of eligibility"? I consider "leaving early" to be leaving after one's 3rd (Junior) year, although I suppose that typically happens more often when that player has been playing for 3 years already and is forgoing his 4th and final year of eligibility anyway.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 4:28 pm | #

Let's let Mr. Verducci step on campus before we start labeling him a failure, alright? Cool.
Jon | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 4:57 pm | #

seriously, thats what im saying too. people get too hardcore and analyze a hire before letting that hire work and build some chemistry. lay off pretending to be ESPN analysts and lets see what happens. im sure this was a thought out hire......the AD is happy so lets wait and see, and not have a stroke from thinking too hard
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 5:27 pm | #

Family hire, coming off Crennel staff; Pro point of view seems well represented but if he knows how to get inside the mind of a varmint, that's all that matters.
indy | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 6:47 pm | #

Just heard that the Bucs fired Gruden. Hmmm.
tridentum | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 7:14 pm | #

Jon Gruden is available now too. Forget Verducci.

Let's go get Chucky involved somehow!
Berger | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 7:18 pm | #

The Gruden story is a cautionary tale. It looked like he was a boy genius, first at Oakland and then at Tampa. There were all the stories about him not needing to sleep etc. But now, 5 or 6 years have passed and he didn't do anything with a solid nucleus. He didn't develop a qb or even choose the right one.They lost down the stretch. No motivation?
My point is that with a lot of coaches, it is a grass is always greener viewpoint. One would think Shanahan is a good coach, but in 10 years or so he failed to put together a first rate defence.
Lets give the new coach and Charlie a chance. If we still can't block and run next year, out they both go, but a Gruden wouldn't be an automatic answer.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 01.16.09 - 8:15 pm | #

Guys,

I'm not saying that standard blocking schemes are uncomplicated...I'm saying that zone blocking schemes are more complicated and difficult to execute effectively.

And from what I know, it's not that they were instituted to make things easier, they were instituted because they (are supposed to) make the blocking more dynamic and unpredictable. Think about it for a second...Yes, when one is in a standard blocking scheme assignments can be difficult to cover on complex defenses...Do you think their any easier when the objective is simply, "go out and hit a guy and our running back will find the holes?" The line between chaos and focus is very, very thin...and as we've demonstrated...we're more on the end of chaos.

As to our running backs...I'm sorry guys but they really aren't that talented. It's not to say that we should have seen a far better running attack from them over the past two seasons, but it's clear that they don't have the ability (that so few backs have out there) of finding the holes on a regular basis. Watch a back like Brandon Jacobs. Here's a guy that's not particularly fast and is huge...yet, he somehow finds the holes and can build up the momentum to plow into guys. That's talent that we don't have much of...yet. Provided Cierre doesn't dump us, perhaps he's a guy that has that ability.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 8:07 am | #

This may be ridiculous but what about Gruden as OC. I think he wants to get back to college and there is really no other good program to take over. Plus he loves ND. Probably ridiculous but ESPN said Gruden may go back to college and I can't think of a good program he would want to take over. Just a thought.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 9:23 am | #

Good article in the SBT on Vreducci. Michael's post is siting a fan thread in Rivals as Verducci having no effect on Iowa football and it's success in running during the 10 years there. His old coach is interviewed and has very good remarks about him. http://www.southbendtribune.com/...375/1021/ Sports
Fry would have declined comment if he did not think highly of him.

I agree with most of the thread. Let's give this guy a chance. We do not want to pull a Poodle and let people know what real support looks like!
JB | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 10:12 am | #

Fry also said he was a very handsome man.

Thoughts?
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 10:59 am | #

First of all, forget Gruden. It's a ridiculous notion that keeps popping up because once upon a time he took chemistry at Clay High School. He'll be coaching the Jets or Chiefs or some other NFL team next year. Move on.

Secondly, can someone please tell me who they would be happy with as the new O-line coach? Name a great, proven O-line coach on the street that's looking to walk into a situation in South Bend in which the coaching staff has no guarantees beyond '09.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 11:34 am | #

Gruden as OC? Seriously? No chance in hell Gruden takes any job that isn't a head coaching job.

.... and don't use my name. I was here first, and been here for years.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 11:50 am | #

kmf, Verducci is the new OL coach....no use in wishfyl thinking. It is what it is, so lets give the guy a chance.
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 12:40 pm | #

wishful*
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 12:51 pm | #

CommonSense-
That's exactly what I'm saying--perhaps my point wasn't clear. People are already carving Verducci's gravestone before he even steps foot on campus.

If the O-line doesn't perform next year, I think it's obvious where the problem lies.
kmf | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 1:23 pm | #

Well I was here second and I like the name.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 6:01 pm | #

Kmf, i misinterpreted the "tone" with which you said that then, sorry. I do agree though that none of the "fans" seem to ever be happy with anything. Everyone thinks they are a head coach and think they can do better. The only way to see if this is a good hire or not is with some time. If problems continue, then it's got to be the head coache's head that comes rolling down.....ultimately he is responsible for everything that happens below him. I do think though, in all fairness, that we should let them work....after all, charlie IS making changes where everyone assumed there would be changes, so he sees what needs to be done....its not like he's sitting on his ass doing nothing! thanks for the clarification.
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 6:30 pm | #

"Latina is a pimp. He never could've outfought Urban Meyer, but I didn't know until today that it was Verducci all along."
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 6:45 pm | #

CommonSense

What I do not understand is that if the OL's problem's are or were Latin's fault he should have jettisoned him last year at the very least so in that sense, he was just sitting on his ass. It could have very well been the scheme and if that is the case, the firing just bought him more time.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 9:04 pm | #

Argg!! There he is again! Blast you, add something to identify yourself apart from me!
Brad | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 9:14 pm | #

Did ND, in the past, easily hire away coaches from Michigan?
They currently have 5 DL on commitment list. Three of them DTs and two of them DEs.
What are we waiting for??
Weis need to bring in a real good hire asap whether it be Stripling or somebody else for DL. ND need the kind of coach who can bring in at least 4 bodies whether it be 3 star or 4 star for DL every year. Same should be said for OL.

GO IRISH!
The Knickerbocker | Email | Homepage | 01.17.09 - 10:17 pm | #

Brad, agreed, ultimately it's the head coaches head that gets cut off, but he will always buy himself time by trying to find "solutions" to "problems" elsewhere other than himself. But, lets gice Weis credit, he HAS called himself out at times, although he has also made excuses. Either way, it's gotta be tough to be in his shoes. He's gotta be the most unpopluar famous person out there. Comes with the territory i guess
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.18.09 - 2:49 am | #

Brad the second,

Please call yourself something slightly different - Maybe Brad2? Or BradRad if you want to get crazy.

Many of us on the board know Brad the first for a while now.

You both seem to have interesting things to say, and it'd be great to know who we're replying to.
Hal | Email | Homepage | 01.18.09 - 9:04 am | #

yeah, that would be helpful.
CommonSense | Email | Homepage | 01.18.09 - 3:13 pm | #

Art Forst
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 01.20.09 - 4:10 pm | #

Brad The Second - you can call yourself Burbank Steve if you like.

I've never got anything interesting to say, and I can bask in reflected glory when you come up with something discussion-worthy.

Thanks very much.
Burbank Steve | Email | Homepage | 01.20.09 - 7:57 pm | #

Michael

Checking your facts, Verduci was not a line coah at cleveland. there was two others. he was Offensive Assst.
SSIrish | Email | Homepage | 02.15.09 - 9:07 pm | #