I don't know that much about football strategy, but if an offense comes out with 4 wide receivers, why would the defense have only 2 corners, a FS, and an SS on the field? Wouldn't they be in at least nickel if not dime coverage? Or are the two inside receivers tight ends isntead? That might make a difference, I suppose. But on the drawing it sounded like they were referring to inside receivers. Either way, if we're going to see a lot of 4 wide, our DBs are going to be tested. I heard Gary Gray didn't make the trip, so we're short there too.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 3:39 pm | #

Had Bob hired a Offensive Co-ordinator that was good as he was on defense and allowed him to make the calls, Bob still may be with us today.
Peter | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 3:56 pm | #

He had him on the staff. His name was Urban Meyer. I think new MSU head coach Dan Mullen was also a grad asst on that staff.

Davie gave Meyer the first series of the '00 Stanford game, and it was a thing of beauty. Then Kevin Rogers balked, and Meyer wasn't given anymore opportunities.

Who knows what would have happened had Davie given Meyer the green light since it worked so well...things that make you go hmmmm?
Michael | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 4:00 pm | #

Excellent post. For the record, Mullen (he was a GA assistant at the time) and Urban aren't the only guys from ND down on the Florida staff. Charlie Strong, Steve Addazio, Mickey Marrotti, and about 3-4 others that I can't think of off the top of my head have coached at ND under Davie or Holtz.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 4:18 pm | #

Yes -- it's strange. Davie didn't lack sound assistant coaches. He had good assistants.

This goes back to my view that during the Davie years, the school just didn't get the athletes it needs to compete on the level needed. The SI article in 2000 (I believe) was pretty good (explaining the complexities of ND recruiting vs. schools like Colorado or Michigan).

CW is changing that, but he doesn't seem to have the brains of a head coach. Again, I go back to the O-Line. They're just so bad. How can that be? It has to be coaching and playing. . . . CW did a bad job of coaching that group; the group did a bad job playing as a unit.
teo | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 4:39 pm | #

Michael - Interesting comment, I had never heard that story about Meyer calling the opening series of that Stanford game. I was at that game, I recall it being freezing cold for an October game with some snow in the air. It was Lovecchio's first start, I think, and he took the team down the field on a long TD march on the first drive.

I always thought Davie was a pretty decent defensive coach and his teams played hard. During his years, however, the offensive schemes were really poor. Anyone remember when Jim Colletto got fired at Purdue and came in as O-coordinator at ND, and promptly announced now he would show what he could do with talent. Of course, he then lost to Purdue. Unbelievable that Colletto resurfaced as an offensive coordinator in the NFL, until you consider that he has the job with the 0-15 Lions (who were 7-9 last year with Mike Martz in that position).
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 4:46 pm | #

Great post as usual, Jay.
Gary Gray didn't make the trip (would like to know if there is something beyond "personal reasons", but that is unlikely to be revealed). Still, they have enough good personnel for nickle and dime coverages.
JP | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 5:15 pm | #

Great post. Posts like these are why I check in regularly.

Quick question: was Davie's talent that bad? Aren't several of his players in the NFL still?
Steve | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 7:53 pm | #

I think they are giving Davie a little more create than he deserve for the zone blitz. Dick Lebeau is widely credited as being the innovator of the zone blitz, fire zone schemes.
Yo Dude | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 10:52 pm | #

B Quinn got punched.
rocky | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 10:55 pm | #

Davie was a pretty decent recruiter if you looked at his classes in a vacuum. The problem, or rather one of the problems as there were many, was he had an amazing ability to over-recruited one position every year and under-recruit another. there was always a glaring personnel deficiency somewhere on the field and an absolute lights out crew somewhere else. The "good" years were the years when the strong position masked the performance of the bad ones. Those key players would graduate and then next year would be a down year.
Tom | Email | Homepage | 12.22.08 - 11:33 pm | #

The Irish lacked offensive talent during the Davie years. Period.

Teo-

Why do you give a shout out to Davie's assistants (while citing an overall lack of talent for the mediocrity), but then call (only) Weis out for a lack of Brains? The problem could be his assistants-or at least how he works with them. You can blame him for not firing bad assistants, but I don't think he could reasonably fire anyone until this (2nd bad year) was completed.
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 12:18 am | #

rays15-

I remember the PU fans after that game saying that Colletto finally found a way to beat Notre Dame. It's no mystery why the Lions are winless.
Mike | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 1:52 am | #

www.southbendblarney.com

Can you explain why Weis let Vaas go and then hired Powlus? It seems to me that ND QBs were much better under Vaas. I do not know if it is Weis or Latina but He has done nothing to improve the OL line in 4 years.
GB | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 5:13 am | #

Other than his offensive shortcomings and his setting the decade old pattern for losing games, Bob's fatal flaw was acquiescence to the ND administration, playing ‘suck up’ politics rather than coaching which he was paid for.
Peter | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 7:02 am | #

A stream of thought that is regularly sprayed here, there, and everywhere is that ND's academic standards are too high for many of the great high school recruits.

I'm curious. What recent high school recruits that went on to college football greatness did we deliberately pass on because their academics weren't up to our apparently raised bar? The key word is deliberately.

I bet we can't answer that question because we aren't allowed to know. Privacy issues. And even those that we might deliberately pass on have to have minimum academic standards as defined by the NCAA's clearinghouse.

If so, then it seems our academic-based excuse may simply be a red herring.
Jim '72 | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 7:46 am | #

I'm curious. What recent high school recruits that went on to college football greatness did we deliberately pass on because their academics weren't up to our apparently raised bar? The key word is deliberately.

I bet we can't answer that question because we aren't allowed to know. Privacy issues.

The only way one could know is if the athlete himself indicates that ND wouldn't recruit him because of academics. I recall a tailback and a quarterback in the recent past, both of whom played (at separate schools) against ND, both of whom were very successful in college, where news stories were written indicating that both were interested in ND, but were turned away because of the academics.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 8:07 am | #

Remarkable how the total ineptitude of Weis makes Bob Davie seem like a distant "fond" memory. The fact that we are playing in a third rate bowl against a team that should NOT be on the same field as any Notre Dame team speaks volumes. Amusing reading this morning, knowing how people "used to" think of Bob Davie. Will Ty Willingham soon be a fond memory as well?
notrewood | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 10:00 am | #

Time heals all wounds. However, if you want a good reminder of the Bob Davie years, just pick up a copy of Tom Keeley's comic book "Fourth and Inches." I think they still sell it at the bookstore. CLASSIC Bob Davie jokes that really portray the futility of his schemes on offense.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 10:55 am | #

Really nice post, Jay. Whatever happens on the field, it's got to make you proud to know that so many of our competitors' fans come, silently, to study the game here. And as much as it aggravates my TMJ to hear Davie praised, I really apprecitate the even handedness of the BGS staff. You are better men than I. Now let's go out there and bring home the sandy sheleilagh.
indy | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 11:34 am | #

Academics= Alibi Ikes

Check the competition ND plays in basketball or hockey. In both sports ND "at most" plays one or two peer institutions.

Yet ND particularly in hockey, but hoops as well is having bang up success.

For whatever reason it is systemic with football coaches and players.

Lets quit blaming the admissions office. Records speak for themselves.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 11:42 am | #

A number of years ago Time magazine did a piece (rather prescient) on the outstanding high school football players that ND rejected (DJ Ducket as I remember for one) due to academics. Contrast this with Miami’s standard of 400 SAT’s for football recruits while a regular applicant needs 1200.

Also, Paul Hornug rather accurately addressed this issue in A NYT article and surprisingly was accused of labeling ND as 'racist'. It even provoked a comical rebuttal from Malloy.

What Paul was trying to say is that ND's academic standards exclude a set of gifted players, most of whom he felt were Afro American and in denying admission to this group excluded them from the benefits of a ND education
Peter | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 12:39 pm | #

So what ND says is that its admission standards for athletes is higher than what the NCAA requires?

The way NCAA works is a combination of SAT/ACT scores and core courses only GPA. It is misleading to state otherwise to say school X accepts athletes whose SAT scores are very low in comparison to what it normally does.
Jim '72 | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 12:45 pm | #

What's scaring me is the thought that we may somehow beat a Hawaii football team (did I just type that -- H a w a i i - are we really playing Hawaii, in a bowl game?!?) and start to 'talk up' what's going on with this onetime incredible program.

And to think that, in addition to Faust, the names Davie and Willingham already seem golden, almost mythical.

Anyone know what's up with the fencing team?
BowlandUnder | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 1:14 pm | #

Setting aside what Hornung “meant” to say, let us look at what he actually said.

In the interview with WXYT-AM, as reported by The Associated Press, Hornung said: "We can't stay as strict as we are as far as the academic structure is concerned because we've got to get the black athletes. We must get the black athletes if we're going to compete."

Here’s what I see. Hornung wants ND to lower their academic standards so they can get the BLACK athletes—not the best or most talented but the BLACK athletes. Setting aside the fact that ND football team is full of black athletes (well, at the very least nominally athletic.) Why do you suppose Hornung singled out black athletes as those with lower academic records? Honestly, do people really think that the white athletes are smarter than the black athletes? I certainly do not labor under that misconception.

To be charitable, maybe Hornung misspoke and his words do not accurately represent his thoughts. Certainly, it can happen to the best of us. However, I would not blame anyone for initially taking his words at face value and judging them to be racist.

Personally, I think the ‘academic standards’ argument is a cop out. ND’s recruiting classes recently have been excellent. The problem is the W-L record is not reflecting that recruiting excellence yet.
imafreak | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 1:27 pm | #

Irisheyes is reporting that Haywood is out. After the Hawaii Bowl, he's the new HC at Miami of Ohio.

http://notredame.scout.com/2/824157.html
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 1:44 pm | #

And the cleansing begins...
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 1:48 pm | #

Who's the best replacement for Haywood? This could be a really exciting hire for the Irish. Would someone like Brian Kelly ever consider an offensive coordinator position? Or will Weis not even hire anyone? Or who is out there who would be good? Skip Holtz?
Alex | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 1:55 pm | #

They sure didn't pick a very flattering photo for that Irisheyes article. I wish Coach Haywood the best in Ohio. Now I hope Charlie can bring in someone he'll listen to (ala Corwin Brown) but who also has experience running an offensive system that will WORK for us. Hopefully this person can also turn our running backs into grade A badasses.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 2:02 pm | #

What about Chuck Long? He was a great QB at Iowa (set the Big Ten record for most TD passes) and had a pretty good run as an Offensive Coordinator/QB Coach/Passing Coordinator at Oklahome.

Happy Holidays to Everyone!

Go Irish! Beat Hawaii!
GraceHall1980 | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 2:09 pm | #

Andy Heck
aaron b | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 2:54 pm | #

Tony Franklin
Mark | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 2:58 pm | #

DJ

Who were the 2 players you refer to?

Was Randy Moss rejected because of academics?
GB | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 3:01 pm | #

DJ

Who were the 2 players you refer to?


As it was mentioned above, and as he himself mentioned it back in the day, the running back was T.J. Duckett, who kicked our butts for Michigan State.

I recalled another player mentioning his interest in playing for Notre Dame, but mentioning that his grades were apparently a dealbreaker. Said QB being Carson Palmer.
DJ | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 3:10 pm | #

During one of the USC games, the announcers did a piece on Dwayne Jarrett (WR) and said he was told by ND we wouldn't recruit him because of academic issues. He used that as motivation against us repeatedly.

Randy Moss was offered a scholarship and had it revoked for behavior issues.

Clearly, the argument that we can't recruit anyone with talent was destroyed by CW. Just because he hasn't done too much that talent doesn't mean we should overlook that coming in to ND his classes have been ranked very high. You can say any given player was overrated, but this not the "systemic" problem we were allegedly having (which led to Horning's comments) under Ty that can acutally be traced back to a golf course.

I'm sure we refuse to recruit a handful of excellent players, but I doubt the number is that large. The larger problem is demonstrating to high school players that ND is a special place. That's how you can ignore the South Bend winters and play for ND instead of Florida or USC. Weis gets it, as we hear so often, and he has been very sucessful in getting the recruits that everyone around the country agrees are top notch going in to college. Whether their overrated or undercoached -- our recruiting standard is not the big problem.
JM | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 3:17 pm | #

I have seen several comments to the effect of "CW needs to find an offensive coach like Corwin Brown." I am big fan of Corwin's also, but I am curious who you all think has made the biggest difference on defense: Corwin Brown or John Tenuta?

Thus, of which of these two should CW look for the offensive equivalent?

I think he should look for someone like Tenuta, but I will save my reasons to see what you all think first.
JM | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 3:21 pm | #

re :BowlandUnder:

Unfortunatly, Paul Hornug is not a 'Poster Boy' for ND's English Department. Unfortunatly, Malloy's mantra of 'academic standards' was not race or academic performance based but a method to de-emphasize the football program.

re: Randy Moss

Randy's "behavior" was attempted murder.
Peter | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 3:53 pm | #

Whoa Peter. He was arrested for misdemeanor battery after kicking someone in a fight.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/ ful...75BC0A963958260
Mark | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 4:58 pm | #

Yeah, let's not exaggerate personal issues simply because we think the person in question might not be ND material. Attempted murder is a bit much, and probably litigious. He got in a fight. Like a lot of 18-yr-olds do.
highnoon | Email | Homepage | 12.23.08 - 5:26 pm | #

I know this has nothing too do with what every one is talking about. ND will be 4-0 when SC comes to SB every bud get hype
StadiumDudeNamedChip | Email | Homepage | 01.04.09 - 12:22 pm | #