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About says it all, Dylan.
I really wish it wasn't the case, but it is what it is.
bpeters1 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 6:50 pm | #
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Not with a bang, but a whimper.
bgr | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 6:51 pm | #
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How fitting that his Waterloo would happen against Navy. Two, three, four.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 6:53 pm | #
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I just don't see a way Charlie can survive consecutive home losses to NAVY.
Grant E. | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 6:54 pm | #
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By beating a ranked Pitt team, that's how.
Brian | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 6:55 pm | #
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Beating Pitt is nothing to write home about. Losing to Navy (twice!) is the kind of thing you avoid going home to tell your folks about.
Dekom | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 6:56 pm | #
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Pitt will go through this team like a hot knife through mustache wax.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 6:56 pm | #
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I just saw CW's post game. I really like him, but, geez, Navy.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 6:57 pm | #
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I am disgusted with the D. I called them to shut down navy. We are now so fast and agile, I cannot believe the breakdowns. And the long pass for td, yet another breakdown.
Can't wait for Sam Young to graduate. I am going to send him an effing present to get his fat ass out of SB
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:04 pm | #
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canuck 75, could you also pay him to take Chuck with him?
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:05 pm | #
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I'm running out of excuses to tell the ND haters, anyone have any that actually sound plausible?
decidedschematicadvantage | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:10 pm | #
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All head, no heart.
mackay Rippey | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:15 pm | #
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looks like this is the end of the line for us, ay boss?
front butt | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:15 pm | #
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Outworked. That is all. Take the four stars and the three stars and put an asterisk next to them.
*will not guarantee wins without hard work.
Look at the sack on the safety. Look at the size of the kid fighting through Paul Duncan's block. Everything about him is smaller than Paul Duncan except his heart, etc.
It's work. We all know that.
Congratulations to Navy. They deserve it. Always a treat to see them play. I especially enjoyed it when they always came up short vs. ND.
"Nobody, and I mean nobody* comes into our house and pushes us around."
*'nobody' may not include Navy, USC, PIttsburgh, Syracuse,
Okay, that's enough whining from me.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:16 pm | #
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wasn't my fault...i just hangout on the sidelines.
front butt | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:16 pm | #
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No way to apologize for Weis now. Not even the most delusional Irish fan can rationalize this!
Fat Weissssss | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:16 pm | #
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Game changing play- Floyd's drop at the 50. That was the play that ended it. Swung the momentum...thoughts?
Aaron | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:18 pm | #
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I may be four sheets to the wind cuz I just fell off the band wagon. Will one of you lads throw me back on? What an embarrassment. Navy and at the house Rock built.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:19 pm | #
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game changing play was the td pass by navy. makes it a two score game again and puts the pressure on the offense on a day where we could just not execute.
Another nominee could be either the Clausen fumble or the interception. Either one of those does not happen, we win.
DC Irish | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:20 pm | #
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I was about to go drown myself in my own piss, but didn't want to waste a perfectly good life (and tub of piss) on Charlie W.
Hopper | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:22 pm | #
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The Floyd play was big.
So was the Clausen fumble at the goal-line
And 2 missed short field goals
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:22 pm | #
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game changing plays were whatever the hell they were doing last sunday through friday.
front butt | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:23 pm | #
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but parris's fumble right out of the box hurt. once Navy had an early lead it was able to stick to its game plan the whole day.
front butt | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:24 pm | #
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aaronb, you left out the fact that we have a HC that can't coach his way out of a burger stand.
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:25 pm | #
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Remember, these guys are just kids. They valiantly held off 'The Weis Stuff' for eight weeks this year, but eventually, that icy glacier of nothingness takes over and ices everything. Take this one down to the morgue.
His only signature victory will be that incredible contract extension he signed.
Guess I wasn't quite done whining.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:27 pm | #
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"Not even the most delusional Irish fan can rationalize this!"
Oh, I can count at least 4 posters on here who should be along shortly to defend Weis and chant "In Weis we trust!" or some other mindless refrain.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:27 pm | #
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Charlie Weis is a football genius...HAHAHAHAHA, Irrational, delusional Irish fans...
Fat Weissssss | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:28 pm | #
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You don't take care of the football, you lose the game. It's trite but it's true.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:28 pm | #
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I did like Pat Hayden's little tribute to Navy football at the top of the broadcast. Play tough, play disciplined, no talk about who's leaving early, who's in the Heisman conversation, just button it up and play football.
This is true.
And I'm not singling anybody out here, but could #82 maybe get a tutorial about how to buckle his fucking headgear on so that it fucking stays on?
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:30 pm | #
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There have been a lot of helmets coming off on the field in CFB this season. I don't understand it.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:31 pm | #
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Can we all get a grip and agree that the Michigan loss now looks worse than the Navy loss? Times have changed. Stop talking about stars, and athletes. They have a game plan that keeps them in almost any game and they executed perfectly. In return I will also agree that the best place for Weis is in a booth as an OC.
But the bottom line is you take 5 trips inside the 10 and score 7 points, and have a -3 turnover differential, you won't win. Coach's fault, players' fault.
Spiro Agnew | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:36 pm | #
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Well put Spiro, a head coach he is not. Great offensive stats, but no team leadership or game management.
Navy played "their game" flawlessly.
He is what he is.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:40 pm | #
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I think Charlie would be a good fit for the Browns. They're used to losing, and losing to inferior teams. A match made in heaven.
President Rome | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:45 pm | #
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I think the game changing moment was the Parris fumble on the first possession. After protecting the ball so well all season long, we were due for a high turnover game sadly.
Swarbick better be looking for someone new, but given how lazy he was in trying to find a 12th game for us next year, allowing WMU to do the hard work for him, I just don't have any confidence that Swarbick knows what's he doing at all. Will the new coach be any better than Weis?
wkurtz94 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:48 pm | #
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BGS authors. Take a break for a while. There's nothing more to report until next year.
Sterling James | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:50 pm | #
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p.s. Here's a video link that might work even better than the picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=g...player_embedded
wkurtz94 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:50 pm | #
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The game changing moment was how shitty we played all day.
24_Hour | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:51 pm | #
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P.S. You know, I was really impressed with Tenuta until he came to ND. What the hell happened?
24_Hour | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:51 pm | #
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24, it's a real mystery. He has a pretty impressive resume, with lower-ranked recruits to boot. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we have 2 defensive coordinators.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:53 pm | #
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I have no doubt this team works hard in practice to become better players to secure a starting spot or improve their draft potential, but they show no motivation to actually win football games until their a breath away from losing.
That's on the coaches.
stephen | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:57 pm | #
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My nominee for game-changing play was after one of our failed 4th and goals, Navy gets the ball on the one. 1st down - they run for 39 yards. Killed the chance to swing field position, much less momentum.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:57 pm | #
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Let's wait until after the bowl game to assess Charlie's status as Notre Dame's Head Coach.
Lots of football left, lots of surprises.
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:58 pm | #
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Wow... I was not expecting such a quick reaction from the BGS crew.
though i can't say I disagree.
domer03inflorence | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:58 pm | #
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i have been saying that about the 2 def coordinators for awhile... everyone knew that they run... so how are we not prepared?
83irish | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 7:59 pm | #
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Holy shit.. davie is a retard. Florida, the 13th fewest penalized team...
domer03inflorence | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:00 pm | #
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charlie is an improvement over Davie, Ty, Faust and
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:02 pm | #
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unfortunately, Weis' dad, he is not. They never lost 2 out of 3 to navy... any of them!!!
domer03inflorence | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:03 pm | #
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no, they never had to build a team from ground zero like charlie did
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:05 pm | #
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CW has to go and go now. He might as well take the DC with him. The recruits that were at the game well just look for them on USC,MSU teams and so on. This is NOT THE NFL CW. A business approach DOES NOT WORK at this level. The players deserve better but thay also have come to the game and play all 4 quarters. Not just when the game is on the line.
JC had a good day at least in the passing game 465yds but need the other 21 to show up and play. You have to get TDs as well. The D absolutely stunk. BCS hopes are gone and that probably is a good thing. ND just isn't at the level they need to be at.
Garvey | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:05 pm | #
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Where can I find a video of the postgame with Weis?
laurenirish | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:05 pm | #
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Excellent flame, Weis's dad. Please stick around.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:07 pm | #
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Lauren,
You can find it at und.com
http://www.und.com/sports/m-foot.../
110709aaa.html
wkurtz94 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:09 pm | #
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Well said BGS.. this one is impossible to overcome especially how this loss was accomplished...
1st and goal at the 2....first half... classic ineptitude all related to play calling....sweep, up the middle and two jump balls to inferior team...
This has nothing to do with talent and/or skill level... has everything to do with being outcoached... no question.. I have no defense for CW
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:09 pm | #
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charlie did not reload with mercenaries like Saban and Meyer and others did
He got true student athletes
Today, the boys did not get the breaks
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:09 pm | #
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Thanks, wkurtz.
laurenirish | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:11 pm | #
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Stanford beat Oregon today
Anything can happen on the football field
cannot panic every game
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:12 pm | #
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Anybody who has ever watched a Weis practice, knows how it it possible why we can't ram the ball in from 1st and goal at the 2.
ND is soft.
This team is an extension of a guy who can hardly walk, let alone get around to coach a football team.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:12 pm | #
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Weis' dad, your virtual BJ of Weis is getting disturbingly sad.
Just stop, please.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:13 pm | #
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I was at the game and I have to say (although I'm sure it's been said before) - NBC absolutely kills any energy in the stadium with the long and frequent breaks.
Seriously - I had no idea that any TV network - even NBC - could stretch a game against Navy to 4 hours. The energy in there is just zapped. And people wonder why it's so quiet.
Between the 7-4-1 and the overuse of TV timeouts, NBC is killing us...
bpeters1 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:13 pm | #
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joey - that is not nice at all - whats with the attitude?
Badmouthing Coach will just turn off recruits
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:14 pm | #
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Oh, so now it's NBC's fault?!? That's a new one
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:14 pm | #
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@bpeters1
very true
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:14 pm | #
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Yup, NBC is the worst thing that ever happened to ND football.
stephen | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:15 pm | #
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No, not NBC's fault - it just makes the experience of watching our BCS hopes go up in smoke that much more painful
bpeters1 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:15 pm | #
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I blame Ty and NBC now. Because of them both, we cannot beat mediocre teams with players who were recruited by Division II schools and the New Jersey Institute of Agricultural Sciences Farmology
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:15 pm | #
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good night
i'll leave this party
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:16 pm | #
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National Championship in '88. NBC contract in '89. The rest is history.
stephen | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:16 pm | #
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lol, stephen
bpeters1 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:16 pm | #
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Jimmy looked like such a sally when he fumbled on the 1.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:20 pm | #
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Ouch Jake,
No, Jimmy has heart, he just got laid out pretty good.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:21 pm | #
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Well he can't wear his red jersey on gameday.
stephen | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:23 pm | #
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No doubt the biggest mistake of all was Clausen's fumble, but I can't really blame the kid. That was on 2nd down, right? So if he slides down there, it's 3rd and goal from the 1. Given our ineptitude all season in the red zone (see Washington) I'd have thought to myself, "Shoot, I better get in here."
Did anyone see a flag lying next to Clausen's limp body? I thought they were going to throw a flag for helmet-to-helmet.
We'll be lucky to go 7-5. Given the way we execute, we don't have much chance at Pitt or at Stanford.
I'm still hoping Florida wins #3 in 4 years and Urban Meyer is just flat-out bored winning at UF.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:24 pm | #
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joey - good job of sticking up for Jimmy Clausen, at least you are not throwing him under the bus too
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:24 pm | #
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As a non-ND fan (Florida) my defense for you is simple- NAVY's one of the 5 best non-BCS teams- this is a team that but for a missed 2pt conversion and a freak play in Pittsburgh, is unbeaten with 3 wins over BCS teams.
Socraticsilence | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:25 pm | #
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Jimmy's just never been in that position before and looked clueless as to how to evade and score. He walked right into the defender, didn't lower his shoulder and got laid out good. He came back and led quite a drive, but still looked pretty weak on the run.
Jake | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:26 pm | #
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Jimmy definitely should have slid.
The interception off of Floyd's back, hard to tell who was the source of miscommunication there.
Jimmy played pretty well overall, but he threw some really bad passes in the redzone and should have gotten rid of the ball sooner on those two sacks that ended with a safety.
If our redzone O was any good, we would have blown Navy out! From Tausch's horrible game to our poor D, we still only lost by 2... but it doesn't make the loss any better
wkurtz94 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:26 pm | #
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True Story:
Other than the 5 year Holtz window (88-93)
It's been 32 years since ND was a national power.
What has changed except for 6 head coaches?
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:28 pm | #
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7 Head Coaches
Gotta Count O'Leary
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:29 pm | #
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7-5. We'll loose JC, GT and CW is history. Sad isn't it?
Sterling James | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:29 pm | #
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Is your point that ND has hired shitty coaches since Holtz?
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:33 pm | #
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JC and GT will not leave until they get their degrees
too many negative nancys today
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:34 pm | #
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I've posted this before, but here it is again:
http://chuckweis.com/
The best fire Weis website out there
Shaun | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:35 pm | #
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I will never be one to throw players under the bus. They are a direct product of their coaches. If they suck, it's not their fault, it is the coach that failed to teach them right and put them in the right situation
That's why it is on Weis' head. Pure and simple. You cannot tell me that with the supposed highly rated recruits that this team should be giving it's fans heart attack every week just to get by the detritus that they have played, let alone lose to a service academy at home, again.
Spare me your nauseating excuses.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:36 pm | #
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Sorry Coach, I stood up for you through a lot of games - bad and good, and years, bad and good. But I'm over it. Thanks for the recruiting, and thanks for putting some of the spirit back into ND football.
But that's all, Folks.
Burbank Steve | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:38 pm | #
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joey - then give Weis credit for Jimmy improving 100% this year, he is now a legit Heisman candidate
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:41 pm | #
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http://chuckweis.blogspot.com/
I'm not sure any of the coaches on this "Fire CW" site can do any better.
Sterling James | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:41 pm | #
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Give him credit for what? Losing to Navy. Congrats, Weis, you lost to Navy, again.
Congrats!!!!
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:42 pm | #
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I know South Bend is a hot spot destination for 18 year old kids and all. How don't we win 15 games and a NC every year?
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:43 pm | #
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"fire Weis" campaigns just have the effect of killing recruiting
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:43 pm | #
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I told you so.
Put the Billboard back up | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:45 pm | #
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Really? I though losing to Navy kills recruiting.
Sterling James | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:45 pm | #
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"I know South Bend is a hot spot destination for 18 year old kids and all. How don't we win 15 games and a NC every year?"
Nice strawman there. It is possible to recruit talented athletes at ND- that's not in question. Good enough to win a NC? I don't know. Good enough to do better than Weis has done? Yes, and that's not in question either.
Now go get your kneedpads and cuddle with your idol.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:45 pm | #
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Weis' Dad, I don't know what Golden's status is, but Jimmy only has one semester left of credits to graduate. Sooo...
For better or worse, I don't want Weis fired this year. I want to see a healthy Clausen-Floyd-Tate tandem next year.
laurenirish | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:46 pm | #
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losing to navy kills recruiting too. the best way to solve any problems created by the fire weis campaigns is to make it a moot issue ASAP.
former weis apologist | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:46 pm | #
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Whoopdy freakin' do. So that's what you have to do keep your job. Make a quarterback a Heisman hopeful?
Wow, I didn't know that. Might as well lose the next couple of weeks, since we have a Heisman hopeful now.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:46 pm | #
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What do you mean "Might as well..?"
Sterling James | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:49 pm | #
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"I know South Bend is a hot spot destination for 18 year old kids and all. How don't we win 15 games and a NC every year?"
Nice strawman there. It is possible to recruit talented athletes at ND- that's not in question. Good enough to win a NC? I don't know. Good enough to do better than Weis has done? Yes, and that's not in question either.
Now go get your kneedpads and cuddle with your idol.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:45 pm | #
...................................
Go fuck yourself.
I'm not being a Charlie back patter. I'm just pointing out that we don't live in a fantasy world of never losing, and NC's just because. These same people have been bitching about whatever they can WIN OR LOSE all year. Either be a realistic fan and support the program or go play playstation where you can press reset if you lose.
Stop being a fuckwad
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:52 pm | #
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Charlie Weis has ridden soft schedules beating only average and below average teams...compiling his wins.
We fired our last coach and he had 8 top 25 wins, 2 top 10 wins, and a season more impressive than anything weis has put together..
we now have a coach that has lost to Navy...not once....but twice....and the sad thing is....Navy has a second year coach and this isn't Navy's best years.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:54 pm | #
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NC would be a high standard; beating Navy 2 out of 3 years, not such a high standard.
former weis apologist | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:54 pm | #
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aaronb,
pretending that ND has ever been team thats lucky yo finish over .500 makes YOU a f%cktard.
What the hell are you talking about?
This isnt Purdue. This is Notre Dame. The most storied program in football history.
Mediocrity might be in YOUR blood but its not in mine.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:54 pm | #
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Oh and aaronb,
again, for the 3rd time, please name me
ONE SINGLE SIGNATURE VICTORY IN WEIS' 5 YEARS
Stop dodging the question
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:57 pm | #
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That's what's so sad. How many of you have accepted mediocrity. Navy? Twice in 3 years, at home? Where's the outrage, where's the vitriol. If this were Davieham all of you would be screaming bloody murder. But, Weis is one of us, so he gets the benefit of the doubt. This nepotism is dangerous and has led to the mess that this program is in.
Wake the f up.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:58 pm | #
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I'm speechless
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:01 pm | #
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I've tried defending Coach Weis. Truly believed he would turn it around.
It has now become completely clear to me that, while he loves the University and the kids he coaches with all is heart, he lacks a fundamental ability to inspire them to reach the best of their potential.
I wish Charlie the best for him and his family in their future endeavors.
It's such a shame that a guy could bring the highest of offensive talent to ND and leave with absolutely nothing to show for it.
I truly believed this team would compete for a NC next year with Jimmy, Golden, Floyd, et al... But there is no way that it happens with the current leadership in place.
PS - Jon Tenuta is should forfeit his entire salary.
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:02 pm | #
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I apologize for the grammatical errors. An SEC education and 1.5 liters of Chianti will do that to a man.
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:04 pm | #
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Why name a signature victory.
Any ND win is just a game they SHOULD win simply because they are ND.
Yet any loss means we instantly fire the coach, nuke the program and hire some other putz.
There is a reason nobody has wanted this job for 30+ years.
The reason is fat middle aged "fans" that feel perfection is their birth right and that every coach should be better than the mythical proportions of Ghost coaches past.
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:05 pm | #
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fava beans?
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:06 pm | #
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"Between the 7-4-1 and the overuse of TV timeouts, NBC is killing us..."
Don't worry, we'll be on Vs soon enough. Hooray!
"JC had a good day at least in the passing game 465yds but need the other 21 to show up and play."
Tate shows up every play. After watching today's game, I feel like Tate should be the Heisman front runner and not Clausen.
"Twice in 3 years..."
Should have been three times in a row...
The game changer was Parris fumbling. I realize I'm not out there week in and week out getting lit up with hard hits, but someone needs to reinforce with the players that they need to protect the ball. We got lucky on Ragone's fumble out of bounds.
That's on the coaches. I'm still amazed that with two defensive coordinators, no one said..."Hmmm...they like to run a lot...maybe we shouldn't be dropping our DBs back into soft coverage with huge cushions..."
I'm not going to demand Weis' ouster now. My mind is made up, though. I know where I stand, and I'm going to support the team and the head coach while the season is on. After that? Yeah, I'll scream for blood.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:10 pm | #
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I am sad for the talent that he is wasting. Sad that they don't have a better coach. You can see the loss coming. I know all of you see it too. I have never played football but I can call Charlie's plays. I don't think that is good. Jump balls may work but people know we do it so its high risk. So we don't score until the end when CW FINALLY saw the middle of the field was open. In college football 100 yards or less on the ground isn't enough like in the NFL.
I ramble but its him. Its been him from the beginning. They are solid players. Five years is enough. I don't think he is gonna have break through in Year six and be good coach.
I am sad because I think we are gonna lose at least two more, CW will be let go and Who is gonna take the reigns to do these players justice for their hard work and dedication.
I am sad cause I don't have any idea.
justsadforplayers | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:10 pm | #
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aaronb - He lost to Navy. Twice. At home. There is no excuse making for that, there just isn't.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:11 pm | #
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aaronb,
Dude you are grasping at straws....
There is nothing defensible about this loss... why can you not face that fact..
No one wants ND to fail and many on this list wanted CW to succeed .. what he has proven today is that he cannot..
You cannot blame talent, you cannot blame bad luck, you cannot blame players, you cannot blame officiating...
the bottom line on this game is the team was not prepared, the playcalling on both sides of the ball was horrific, and the Irish were outcoached yet again.. the athletes could not bail out old CW today...
I am not said for CW, he is making millions and will end up back in the NFL... but what about all his assistants... they and their families will pay the price for hopping on the old Weis bandwagon..
CW has done a great job getting athletes and shown ND that they don't need to lower their recruiting standards, but they do need to elevate their coaching standards..
Cuss all you want.. this is a sad day for ND football
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:12 pm | #
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Charlie gets the nod as the worst coach ever at ND. Fire him! Let us get to the business of winning football games.
valpodoc | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:12 pm | #
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aaronb,
At what point will you answer my question?
Name one signature win in 5 years.
Can't do it? Just admit he has none and I'll be happy.
Oh and I'm not in my 30s and been a ND fan my whole life.
At what point will you realize if you want medicrity you should be a MSU or Ole Miss fan?
Maybe ND isn't for you. Maybe ND is too good for you.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:14 pm | #
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"aaronb - He lost to Navy. Twice. At home. There is no excuse making for that, there just isn't."
I could defend the first one...shitty year, inexperience everywhere...this one? How could you lose Golden Tate for an entire half? How could you constantly rely on the run when it wasn't getting you anywhere? How could you only throw on third and long against a team that just lost to Temple???
Talk about how great Navy played Pitt and Ohio State all you want. This is a team that lost to Temple. And we looked like the effing Keystone Kops out there against them.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:15 pm | #
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MattJ,
A-freaking-men
And I apologize for any cursing in the previous thread, fellas.
I'm just glad this nightmare is over.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:17 pm | #
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things i ask myself:
new notre dame loses to navy twice in three years, old notre dame doesn't.
which one do you want, old or new notre dame?
can the current coaching staff, in your opinion, get you the notre dame you want to see on the field? can old notre dame even exist in the current climate?
what has weiss done to keep his job? what has weiss done to justify his position as head coach for a div 1 program? almost beating usc 4 years ago?
i don't know how dumping him is even a question any more, unless you think that NDs only chance is to have great recruiting over great coaching. they're not getting both with charlie.
mike b | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:19 pm | #
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"I'm just glad this nightmare is over."
It's not over. We still have three games and a bowl to get through.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:19 pm | #
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a lot of us want brian kelly.
who do you think swarbrick will actually hire?
me | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:20 pm | #
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"who do you think swarbrick will actually hire?"
Steve Kragthorpe
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:21 pm | #
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MattJ,
No. The last nail is in the coffin. Weis lost his job FINALLY tonight. We all know it. There is no way he can keep it.
And the media isn't even all over this yes.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:21 pm | #
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"But, he's such a great recruiter" You get trophies for that, right?
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:21 pm | #
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It's amazing how many people still can't correctly spell Weis' name. They just can't get a handle on it. W. E. I. S. That's it. Kind of like Weis can't quite get a handle on being a college football H.C.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:22 pm | #
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His recruiting is like giving a 15yr old D student a ferrari
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:22 pm | #
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"But, he's such a great recruiter" You get trophies for that, right?"
Last I checked, lots of other coaches can recruit.
Hell, NAVY can recruit a punter without jello for a foot who can boot it over 30 yards.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:23 pm | #
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Joe,
I was just thinking about that myself. I was waiting for a Weis supporter to spell his name wrong so i could jump all over it, but no luck yet.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:23 pm | #
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yeah, i try to type charlie more than weis, because i know i spell it wrong 50% of the time. i no longer feel bad about it though.
mike b | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:23 pm | #
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First 6 red zone possessions: one touchdown, two missed field goals, a fumble, an interception and a turnover on downs.
--Decided Schematic Advantage, I tell ya'
--At least we one the Recruiter Trophy this Year
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:24 pm | #
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Joe Subway, maybe people are just thinking they need to drink a lot of weiss beer when they watch his teams play?
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:24 pm | #
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Anyone else watching this Cincy vs UCONN game. Two former ND QBs playing in it.
And Cincy is whomping ass. With a back up QB. (neither from ND)
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:25 pm | #
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"I'm not being a Charlie back patter. I'm just pointing out that we don't live in a fantasy world of never losing, and NC's just because. These same people have been bitching about whatever they can WIN OR LOSE all year. Either be a realistic fan and support the program or go play playstation where you can press reset if you lose.
Stop being a fuckwad"
You consistently post stupid shit, and today is no exception. Good example: what do you say in response to Weis losing to Navy, again? "Bob Stoops and Jim Tressel lose games too." No shit they do. But you know what? They also win big games some times! They might even beat a team that is more talented than theirs every 5 years or so!
You know the people who were bitching all year about Weis squeaking out wins against mediocre teams, despite having a team more experienced and talented? About all the flaws on this team? What do you know, they were on to something! There is a large body of evidence that Weis consistently underpeforms given the talent he has. That is the definition of bad coaching.
If you're too fucking retarded to see that, go cry to Charlie. It's dipshit fans like you that are half the problem. Yeah Charlie, way to inspire the boys to that comeback! We only lost by 2! Go get 'em next week!
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:26 pm | #
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I'm watching it, DayBreak.
Well, I have it on in the background while I seethe and look for nails to bite the heads off of.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:27 pm | #
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Don't you mean: "We only lost by 2 that came on a safety because it was fourth and 20 and was another sack when an undersized player blew up one of our enormous linemen working in our decided schematic advantage! Go get 'em next week!"
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:29 pm | #
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Matt, that is indeed much better. And one final improvement: "It's not 1952 anymore guys!"
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:32 pm | #
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i work at in university administration, and let's be honest- funds are tight everywhere. can notre dame justify paying out the final 5 years of a contract when students are struggling for scholarships and our university is facing decreased donations?
just a thought.
me | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:33 pm | #
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While this loss kills in so many ways, we are still in a far superior place than we were before Charlie arrived. At least we can look at this team and see the talent that we should expect to win. Kelly is the flavor of the month just like whatshisname from Rutgers was three years ago, or whatshisname from Buffalo was two years ago, or whatshisname from Utah was last year. The point is that these teams have a dream season and everyone thinks their coach is great - then they fade into mediocrity like everyone else. Unless there is a young dynamic, proven winner, firing Chuck is a step backwards.
Rubbermatch | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:33 pm | #
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me, I'm guessing there would be a lot of donations toward a buyout now, even with the economy the way it is. But yeah, the buyout is definitely a concern. Too bad no one has an idea what it is- there have been conflicting reports about the size of it.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:35 pm | #
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How do you go backwards from this??
Is that possible?? Please help me understand how that can happen..
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:35 pm | #
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Rubbermatch, I don't know much about Kelly, but a lot of knowledgeable posters speak well of his track record. I agree that Weis will leave this place in better shape that he inherited it, due to his solid recruiting. I wish him well, he's just not a big-time head coach.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:36 pm | #
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I have been saying all year that there's talent all over the field, but no direction. We saw this coming with SDSU in 2008 or Stanford in 2005.
With UM out of the running and $30,000, I think we take Brian Kelly if we can get him or Jim Harbaugh. I think the players would love playing for Harbaugh. Crist was leaning towards Stanford because of the young motivated coach.
ND is paying way too much to Weis to have the team not prepared for Navy.
Let's end it at 5 years like we did Faust. They both could not coach the college game.
Gold Wave | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:37 pm | #
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hey me,
Sounds like you have some inside scoop on donations.... tell me, what is the correlation between ND wins and donations...
my guess is it is similar to applications for admission which run parallel from what I've been told..
Weis buyout will be cheap in the long run..
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:37 pm | #
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I can't believe you people have accepted mediocrity. I just can't believe it
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:38 pm | #
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Harbaugh.. sounds interesting.. but didn't we get a recent coach from Stanford...???
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:39 pm | #
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Me, maybe the brain trusts should have thought about that before they gave him that ridiculous contract. How they can look at themselves in the mirror, while there are students who can't even afford to buy textbooks for class while their morbidly obese football coach makes more money than many will make in their lifetimes is beyond me.
Even though he did lose the Perennial Football power Navy
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:40 pm | #
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i'm sorry, but i do not hate charlie weis. he is not a great coach, but he did give his heart to this job.
the team is better off now then they were five years ago, but i still think weis should not be retained.
i'm tired of people talking about the guy as if he is satan. he tried his all; it wasn't good enough.
weis loves notre dame and tried his damnedest to get us back on track. he filled the cupboards with talent, but he could not get us over the hump, as he couldn't motivate the players to play beyond their abilities (and sometimes at their abilities).
i hope that weis is not coach next year. i also hope that we remember him as the coach who got us poised to hire a talented coach willing to take on a talented team that is on the cusp of a national championship.
let the bashing of my comment begin...
me | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:41 pm | #
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There's a Weiss beer? Oh, I didn't even know that. They don't sell it up in Canada.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:41 pm | #
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At what point do the last 30 something years out-weight the success of the 50's and 60's?
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:41 pm | #
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"whatshisname from Utah was last year."
Yeah, that 4-0 bowl record sure does stink, as does that 44-15 record as a head coach. So does that top 20 ranking, and the multiple coach of the year awards from last year.
Yep...sure is a flash in the pan, isn't he?
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:42 pm | #
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Not that it matters but Temple has a 7-game winnig streak.
lindy | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:42 pm | #
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jmc, i don't have any "inside scoops". i work at a private catholic university in the midwest and i worked at a state university in colorado. higher education is hurting. students cannot afford to go to college and budgets and departments are being slashed left and right. i know that notre dame has a higher endowment than a lot of schools, but all administrations are under tons of scrutiny with how money is being spent. i can't imagine nd being immune to that.
i am not saying weis should be retained because of this, but i just want to mention that there are factors beyond all of our control. yes, the admins should have thought of this before giving him a 10 year contract, but no one expected the economy floor to drop out like it did.
me | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:44 pm | #
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Joe, I think that weiss beer has a German heritage and involves wheat -- it's not a brand, but a class of beer.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:45 pm | #
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Joe Subway: It's German for certain types of Wheat Beer.
Personally...not nearly high enough alcohol for me after losing to Navy twice in three years.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:45 pm | #
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Gentlemen
the german word for wheat us Weiss. so yes, its a beer.
Also, anyone else watching Brian Kelly at Cincy DESTROY UCONN.
PS. its halftime and Cincy's BACKUP QB has 333 passing yards/
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:47 pm | #
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The safety was not the margin of victory (the missed fg's were). If ND doesn't get a first down there, it never gets the ball back at all. Short of a first down, the safety was the preferable outcome (unlikely as that sounds).
Aside from 1 playcall (the hughes sweep), this game was a function of execution. Navy (please stop with the service academy, temple--sans Dobbs-loss nonsense) had no turnovers and controlled the ball. Did people here really expect Notre Dame to shut out navy's rungame?
Spiro Agnew | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:47 pm | #
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DayBreak, at this point, I can reconcile losing our recruits for a real coach.
me | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:48 pm | #
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me,
Agree. Any recruits we lose is fine with me so long as our mediocrity ends
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:48 pm | #
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Oklahoma, Florida, Texas, USC, Alabama, etc. would all fire Weis if he had the record he has here at those schools. We still expect to be in that league, right?
We lost to Navy twice in three years. If that's not unacceptable for a multi-million dollar (former) football powerhouse, then nothing is.
Zach | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:48 pm | #
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What I'd love to know is whether there are any bona fide great college coaches with legitimate interest in the program. I was not a fan of ND's performances under Willingham, but I thought that the most valid reason to let Ty go was the hope of Urban Meyer coming to coach. I don't know where Charlie Weis appeared on the wish list, but I'm not convinced that ND would have fired Willingham to get to Weis. So I'm not sold on the idea of firing Weis just to get to the 7th or 8th or 35th choice on Swarbrick's list.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:50 pm | #
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I think we had something like 60 yards rushing today. After a Temple back hung 250 or something like on Navy the week before. With an OL that dwarfed their D-line. As I've said before, I'm not a bring back the wishbone type, but man, the running game really is just an afterthought to Weis. That might explain why our red zone offense sucks.
ndfootball4ever | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:51 pm | #
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if white hadn't given weis that 10 year contract, we could happily say goodbye to weis in january with no strings attached.
me | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:52 pm | #
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I wasn't for CW's ouster or sold on Brian Kelly, before today.
Amazing what 7 hours can do.
Seriously... that's Cincy's BACKUP QB, boys and girls. Carving up a pretty good D-1 Defense while their own D stifles the other team.
/Fyi - based on the tip drill at the end of the half, it might be a good time to wager on Cincy the rest of the way out including BCS game. Looking like a well-coached team AND a team of destiny.
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:53 pm | #
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If the kid goes pro, we don't have to give up the muppet Tate too, do we? I want to keep the muppet Tate.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:53 pm | #
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Zach, you are so right.
That's what is so infuriating. Fans expect at least to challenge the BCS, but you don't want truly be akin to the big boys.
Those top teams would never put up with this, Weis would have been out on his ass months ago.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:54 pm | #
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Thank you, Indy for a light-hearted break in the proceedings. I'm not sure who I love more - Muppet Tate or Superman Tate who plays on Saturdays.
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:54 pm | #
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Subway Alumni Calling for Weis's Head>Actual Alumni who are Weis Apologists.
Put the Billboard back up | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:55 pm | #
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We had an O-Line that dwarfed Navy, and they still got pressure on Clausen, especially when it counted.
Why do I keep reminding myself of this? I'm just getting more and more disgusted.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:55 pm | #
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I flew home to NJ from California today and was psyched that the plane had Direct TV so I could watch the game.
WORST. FLIGHT. EVER.
At least I can say I saw the game that put the nail in the coffin of the Weis era. Horrible. Bash on Willingham/Davie all you want...their teams beat Navy.
So much for nasty...
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:56 pm | #
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As long as we're venting, I'm going to get everything off my chest at once. The whole setup today is stupid -- the coaching, the 7-4-1, playing Western Michigan, endless tv timeouts, $200 for the ticket lottery, set-asides for the Monogram Club, semi-joining the Big East, and those ridiculous flower boxes on the sidelines. What did I forget to mention?
FE | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:57 pm | #
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MattJ, don't worry about it. Weis is a great recruiter, and he loves ND soooooo much. That's all that matters.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:57 pm | #
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Billboard, put it somewhere else already. "I told you so" does not justify a childish prank foisted upon an entire community. I'll concede the accuracy of the message, but never accept that it was a mature action.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:57 pm | #
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**************************
Attention aaronb
**************************
Notre Dame is 3-16 against teams with winning records since 2007
But give Weis more time, right?
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 9:59 pm | #
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Why can we not get a top tier college football coach in SB? Why can we not get a top tier defensive coach? Why do we keep recruiting undersized running backs? Until these issues are resolved Notre Dame will be an over-rated bowl team and get spanked by top 20 teams.
IRISHHENSMAN | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:00 pm | #
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Lots of angry comments. I can't seem to tap into any anger at the moment. Am just sad. I have to now agree with the "that's all folks" conclusion.
I wanted ND to succeed under Weis and I wanted Weis to succeed. I have been willing to, I guess, suspend judgment over concerns from 2006, the disaster that was 2007, and the way 2008 fell apart. There were mitigating circumstances I told myself. Patience. Recruting has improved. Weis has shown an interesting willingness to change. There are signs of improvement I thought.
I had hopes that while having a coach learn on the job was not the way to do it at ND, that maybe Weis could grow into the job. He could defy the history or ND coaches.
And, from looking at his career at ND and prior to ND, I still think that Weis is a terrific coach. For whatever reason though, its not working for him to be Head coach. Not at ND. Maybe somewhere else he could do well, who knows. But it just doesn't appear to be happening at ND.
I wish it was different.
wsdomer | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:01 pm | #
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I would like to thank Chuck for making ND football irrelevant, now I can spend my Saturdays doing yard work.
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:03 pm | #
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Seeing Tate back in the huddle after his touchdown run, clearly exhausted, looking off into space, psychically gathering himself to play to the gun, that made my night. He came to fight.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:04 pm | #
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FE, maybe the tv timeouts will shorten if Comcast buys NBC and moves our home games to Vs? We can only hope.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:04 pm | #
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I thought we did get not one, but TWO top-tier defensive coaches. Brown and Tenuta were both supposed to be great. That's a big part of the frustration here. Not sure I agree about the size of running backs. DWalker was sufficient for an NC if the rest of the team had been up for it.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:04 pm | #
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Indy: Seeing Tate play is the only thing I have to look forward to for the next four games.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:06 pm | #
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Not that Tom, that's exactly what I did today -- grumbling and raking was a decent way to deal with the stress.
It's been notable, to me, how little national attention ND garners now. The off-site home game would have been a big deal in the Holtz era, but it sure didn't seem like it. So "irrelevant" may be the right word, which makes the comments of wsdomer poignantly accurate.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:07 pm | #
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Indy,
Agree. Don't see Tate or Clausen leaving. Too much heart. they make me love college football far more than pros do.
As for undersized RB, eeeh. Can't say. Hughes is a bruiser and Riddick looks pretty damn tough.
I am perplexed at how awful ND's defense has been under brown and Tenuta. Frankly I would fire both of them, whoever is the new coach. Its clearly the worst part of the team.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:09 pm | #
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I hate to bring this up as a Subway Alum, given that it can be a hot button issue, but.... look at the DL of Bama, Florida, Texas, etc.. and tell me Navy could run a Fullback up the middle all day against those defenses?!
I do think this game is CW's Waterloo but, I would hope that alums would realize that the Holtz' days were entirely different when it came to recruiting kids for that side of the ball. Just IMO, of course.
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:10 pm | #
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And Bryant Young? It's really shocking how poor the defense continues to be.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:10 pm | #
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(despite the big names, I should have added.)
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:12 pm | #
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GC Tony,
Yes, and I hope any new coach at ND is given the leeway he needs to make the team GOOD and not have to recruit "Christian soldiers" that the administration wants.
I love Notre Dame and their image of fairness and honor. But they've neutered the football program.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:13 pm | #
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No one is mentioning Navy's goalline stand against the Irish today. It's not just the defense. The offense under Weis and NEVER been able to pound the ball in when it counted. Our O-line is still sub par. I mean, the O-line outweighs Navy by 30 lbs a man, and they make a goalline stand against us???
THat, my friends, is CW football.
24-hour | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:13 pm | #
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how we can have over 450 yards of passing and only 21 points...and lose to navy was a mystery to me until i did the M.O.E. calculation
I think we came in about 50% and Navy came in at 0.5%.
Really though, I would find it interesting to look at our MOE out of the redzone, and what it is once we get in the redzone.
buttface | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:14 pm | #
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*has* never, not "and never"
24-hour | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:14 pm | #
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Agreed. Tate is a fighter. I am truly in awe of his ability and drive. I hope he stays for next year. Michael Floyd is phenomenal, your couldn't build a better receiver. But Tate "cannot be stopped" as I believe he said last year. SO how you don't play to him the whole game I don't know. I loved his late touchdown against USC, caught it got sandwiched by Mays and another guy, stayed up like ALWAYS as they fell and he flexed looking down at Mays. YOu could see his heart. He really should be Heisman but he probably wont cause of losses like this.
justsadforplayers | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:14 pm | #
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Muppet Tate is probably going to join 'Muppets on Ice' after this season. The purists don't like it, but it pays.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:16 pm | #
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@DBB - thanks for the backup. I'm 36 and lived and died with the Holtz/Zorich/Stonebreaker/Rice, et al teams. Kids that I don't think would be given a true chance at ND, right?
I'm not saying bring in kids with NO CHANCE of graduating or no interest in contributing to student life at the University outside the football program. But, last I checked, all the kids we are thinking of represented ND fairly well, right?
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:17 pm | #
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Golden Tate is a god damned hero and is the greatest player to play at Notre Dame since Rocket Ismail. I just wish he had the overall team to support him.
#23 will now be as honored in my house as is #25 and #3.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:18 pm | #
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"I wanted to run on the field and jump up and down, but I was kind of tired," said Ram Vela, who had an interception and fumble recovery. "We'd done it before and we went into this game not really placing as much emphasis or too much importance on it. We just treated it like another game."
There you have it. Navy now considers beating ND on their own field no big deal.
Thank you, Coach Weis. You have officially made a Navy win over Notre Dame (something that had not happened since the Kennedy administration before you came on the scene) a non-event.
Well done.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:18 pm | #
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We just got beat by a team that always plays above its talent level because their players are smart and disciplined, yet some people are saying the solution for ND is to relax its recruiting standards by admitting dumber, less-displined athletes.
FE | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:19 pm | #
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Gotta concur with most of what you fellow "Domers" are saying, however we have NOT had a Jerome B or a Mark Edwards type back- Those guys did not get stopped. I sincerly hope this WAS Charlie's Waterloo. He is a wonderful man, and great with the players, but I want a dominant football team in South Bend again, and I believe we can do it without recruiting thugs or crimnals to win! By the way, would anyone have a problem with lowering our academic standards, just slightly?
IRISHHENSMAN | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:20 pm | #
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GCTony, I don't think you're wrong at all. Yes, we want to be as good as Bama or Florida or Texas, but we want to do it with better young men.
At the same time, we have good players on defense. They were just completely out of position or when they were in position, they whiffed on tackles. I don't even want to know how much YAC the Navy rushers had today.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:20 pm | #
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GCTony,
I've been to several events with Tony Rice. Mostly just small parties - friends and family.
Would I ever let Tony Rice be alone in the same room as my sister? Hell no.
BUT. When my mother told him that I, my brother, and sister, had been fans since we were children, Tony Rice sent us all autographed photos of him with our names on them. And he hardly knew us at that point.
I have them framed on my wall now.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:21 pm | #
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DBB, way to slander Rice and praise him in one sentence. Very well done.
joeyjoejoejrshabadoo | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:23 pm | #
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FE - you make a very good point. The "University of Navy" almost always plays above their talent level.
Like I said, as a non-alum, I tend to tread lightly.
I assume you want CW gone. Who do you like on the horizon as a replacement? I ask that sincerely.
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:23 pm | #
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Slightly off topic, but do the top tier defenses in college football currently run 4-3 or 3-4?
Spiro Agnew | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:23 pm | #
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Well, I've seen him in action.
He's an incredibly nice guy. But...not with my sister.
Also, I know Gale Sawyers.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:24 pm | #
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Don't most of them run 4-3? But we're almost forced into 3-4 due to the lack of a really good defensive tackle?
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:24 pm | #
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I love Brian Piccolo!
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:25 pm | #
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MattJ,
you owe me a drink. @$$
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:25 pm | #
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Sorry, DayBreak. I went to St. Joe for undergrad, which is where they filmed a large part of the original movie.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:28 pm | #
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I am going to Stanford contest in Palo Alto over Thanskgiving weekend with my fiancee, who went to undergrad on "The Farm," and I am fully dreading the game at this point. I don't think even the warm weather will make the trip pleasant!
Wade | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:30 pm | #
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I was at a friend's 21st bday and Gale walked in. Another friend of mine goes "Holy $h!t. Thats Gale."
I explained that it was. That his wife is a darling, and that Gale is VERY quiet...and drinks wine coolers.
Sucks, i know. but true.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:31 pm | #
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It's okay, Daybreak. I've developed a wicked allergy to hops, so I don't even drink wine coolers anymore. *sigh*
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:34 pm | #
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@ Wade - I feel for you. I have visions of Toby running for about 250 vs. the Irish.
Hey, at least you married a very smart girl, right?
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:35 pm | #
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I never drank wine coolers cause its for pussies.
Gale broke my heart.
But a really nice guy. Quiet.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:37 pm | #
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I'm now content with CW and the 7-5 seasons at ND. What the hell. Oh by the way to those two nit-wits calling the game on NBC, "Navy always plays with heart and compassion," so what did they play with from 1964' thru '07?
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:39 pm | #
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Piccolo was a Wake Forest grad, right?
So the Navy coach says that they figured that Notre Dame would line up defensively exactly like they did last year when the Irish held them to about 150 yards on the ground.
And the Irish did line up exactly the same.
Which is why Navy installed the wrinkles such as the unbalanced lines.
Ian Williams says that Navy knew exactly how the Irish would defend, and that they physically outworked them.
There you have it.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:39 pm | #
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Piccolo was a WF grad, correct. And, by all accounts, one of the most grounded guys who ever played the game.
/still gets choked up by "Brian's Song"
GamecockTony | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:42 pm | #
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Tenuta's ppreparation of the D was downright awful. The CBs had no clue what to do.
pangborn | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:44 pm | #
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Watching the fight left in UConn right now...I'm worried about THAT game, too.
Great.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:54 pm | #
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Sorry guys, but the game changer wasn't any of the busted plays in the 4th quarter that kept us from a comeback tie.
It was the ND TD late in the 3rd quarter that put our first points on the board and kept us from a shutout...at home...by Navy.
Yeah, this game was that bad.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 10:56 pm | #
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One thing I like is the relentlessness of Cinci's attack. I wish Weis would go hurry up the last 3 games. The more offensive plays we have the better.
Spiro Agnew | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:01 pm | #
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Stop, this game was not that bad. They had 350 yards in the second half.
Spiro Agnew | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:06 pm | #
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As good as Floyd is, being out 7 weeks showed--on the interception off his back and the dropped bomb on the series near the end of the game that resulted in the safety.
ND is potentially in serious trouble--if JC goes pro, it will have no real QB in spring ball.
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:11 pm | #
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Anyone who says this game wasn't that bad has accepted mediocrity. The abundant yards only serve as salt in the wound. There is only one measure of how a team performs when competing with another: The final score. This should have been a blow out.
Weis needs to go. Period.
David86 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:19 pm | #
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mecheng, ND is in serious trouble even if JC stays.
If CW survives, then they are in catastrophic trouble.
RedMahoney | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:20 pm | #
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Wow, looks like reality just hit the hold-outs...too bad for our team and the fans.
I guess that the dude (pardon me as I'm drunk and have forgotten his name) might have been right when he put up that sign. Maybe some folks owe him an apology.
As for our team. It's going to be bad. Really, really bad. But, Weis is done and we need to move on. Props to him on recruriting, but when it came to the X's and O's, he failed. Let's not make this any more difficult than it actually is.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:22 pm | #
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Ed,
CW's failures was not really X/O.
Here is why CW isn't a good HC:
CW failed to:
1) Motivate
2) Hire good / fire bad assistants
3) Develop players (mostly 2 above)
4) Adjust / close out games
5) Instill team fundamentals
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:31 pm | #
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A good coach who has college coaching experience and success. A couple of transition years. A national championship. Entirely possible.
If Cinncinati, Boise State, and TCU can do it, ND can, too.
David86 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:33 pm | #
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In all honesty, there's a line from Steve Buscemi in "Armageddon" that suits this situation perfectly:
"Gentlemen, it's time to embrace the horror!"
Put the Billboard back up | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:35 pm | #
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6) Teach discipline. How many drives were killed with stupid penalties?
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:36 pm | #
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Steve Buscemi's inexplicable mental collapse in Armageddon rings true with too many games over the past 5 years.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:45 pm | #
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i like Bill Paxton in Aliens: "game over man! we're dogmeat man!
former weis apologist | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:47 pm | #
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former,
Given the sitch, the Aliens line that most applies is [reffering to the little girl]: "Why don't you put her in charge?!!"
CW = Lt. Gorman?
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:50 pm | #
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Good to see the fan base unified again.
Here's a fun Weis factoid I saw tonight -
Times shut out (held to 0 points by opponent):
Weis: 3
Willingham: 2
Notre Dame from the year 1965 to 2001: 3
Offensive genius.
Curse of the Class of '98 | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:57 pm | #
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If CW goes, can he please take Ron Powlus with him?
first state irish | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 11:59 pm | #
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i think Weis has done a lot of things well---he has recruited well. at times the offense runs great if it is not shooting itself in the foot. i wonder if charlie is just not a great leader---there seems to be a lot more to running a football program than calling offense plays, and teaching QB skills. not saying he is a bad guy...he just doesn't seem to pull it all together. why do we have two defensive coordinators, for example?
former weis apologist | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:01 am | #
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There really is no doubt in my mind that we will lose to UCONN. They have come so close to winning so many times, who else but the Irish can give them what they want so badly. If they can come back on Cincy, I know they can come back on us. Hmmm I believe they have a former QB of ours that was pretty much kicked to the curb by Charlie. Do you think Zack will want to beat ND.....you know he will. I dont see a win the rest of the way. But that is probably what it will take for Charlie to go. Sorry to say. We just cant defend him anymore. He just never has him men prepared to play. Its sad but he has been living off of NDs dime way to long. If he really does love ND he will step down.
TJ | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:06 am | #
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I agree. I hope Ron Powlus is forever banned from campus.
No offense Ron but you ARE CURSED.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:07 am | #
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"One thing they know from me is that I never, never change."
Charlie Weis, earlier this evening.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:08 am | #
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TJ - I'm scared about UCONN as well. It's very easy and phenomenally stupid to dismiss them because of their record. 12 hours ago, I expected 9-3 with a slim hope of 10-2. Now I expect 7-5, and 6-6 is more likely than 9-3.
On pure talent, we would finish 11-1.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:17 am | #
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This will probably be stripped from the comments,but can our new coach have the following:
-Experience playing the game
-The ability to sit up straight. Lou used to require this...
-The ability to run ahead and lead the team on the field...Lou used to do this. Even Ty could handle this one and bring in some energy vs. sucking it out.
-Losing to Service Academies. While Faust could not handle Air Force, at least he took care of Navy.
No Mercy | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:18 am | #
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Anyone who schedules Western Michigan, Tulsa, and Army in the same year does not have the best interests of the program in mind. Therefore, Charlie Weis will be allowed to finish out his contract. But it's only five more years, so hang in there, everyone.
Bowe | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:18 am | #
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the talent was there, the potential was there, but there was no heart...
wyndycity | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:23 am | #
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Bowe,
You're sarcasm registers off the charts
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:24 am | #
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Im getting ready to watch college football final....poor lou he has to defend us to the oracle again. You no how much May loves to rub it in Lou's face when ND loses, I wish Charlie loved ND half as much as Lou does..... because if he did he would have left last year after the Syracuse loss. I cant believe he admitted he even thought about it last year. I like Mr. Kelley for the new coach if we can get him.
TJ | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:24 am | #
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There's lots of heart. There is not direction. No coaching.
Is it me or has Notre Dame's defense been lost in the woods for years?
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:25 am | #
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The defense is a real mystery your right though where has it gone for so many years. The last time we had a good defense was Willinghams first year. Nothing since then.
TJ | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:29 am | #
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UCONN might kick our ass. Wow.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:31 am | #
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In all seriousness, games like these don't just cost ND BCS games. They give the administration the belief that scheduling cream puffs is the way to fix the program. They say, "If we can't beat Navy, we'll schedule Tulsa. And if we can't beat Tulsa, we'll schedule WMU." Next thing you know, there's nothing very special about Notre Dame Saturday.
Bowe | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:34 am | #
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hmm - Davies setup that Willingham defense. How about the washed up coaching team:
Weis - OC
Davies - DC
Holtz - Head Coach (just there to fire the kids up and teach them discipline)
Willingham - Leprechaun? or maybe chase down field goals.
obediah | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:34 am | #
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Im telling you, UCONN hasnt won since there player was killed. I just have that feeling, they have brought it every week. If we lose to Pitt, that will really take the wind out of us, the perfect time for Uconn to come to town. I think that will be the final nail in the coffin for Charlie.
TJ | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:34 am | #
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I'm trying to gather the movie moments previously mentioned and relevant to our current situation:
(Salty language in some, heads up)
We have the "Downfall" of Charlie Weis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U...h?
v=Uf_yyr3ifVI
We have the "Aliens" version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B...h?
v=BPsSWoYursc
The "Slap Shot" version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q...h?
v=QILn1G8zaqc
The "Jerry Maguire" version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c...h?
v=cymgcGQtlGQ
And, Finally, The "Michael Jordan" version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w...h?
v=woOu_4l3lio
Just a little gallows humor here.
Put the Billboard back up | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:36 am | #
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FIRE WEIS
I'm ready to burn my "We-Is-ND" shirt
I created that bit. I will burn that shirt as soon as its official.
I want to feel something other than embarrassment when I wear an ND shirt.
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:39 am | #
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When we put up 30+ points a game, our shoddy defense was something we could overcome. but, when you basically put up 14 against Navy (the last 7 was pretty much garbage), you ain't gonna beat anybody.
ODog | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:41 am | #
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Divine retribution for the Obama outrage.
tridentum | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:50 am | #
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The bell tolls for thee CW....
Look, you can say what you want about this play, that play, etc. We're just 3 plays or 6 plays from being undefeated, yada, yada. The fact is that Navy made us look physically outmanned. There is no excuse. You can pile excuse on excuse and talk about this or that missed play but for christ's sake, its 5 years of this shit. How many teams with less talent do we need to lose to? This team could be 3-6 just as easily, AGAINST THIS SCHEDULE? Are you kidding me? CW has two honorable courses of action left: resign of his own volition and do his best to keep the recruiting class intact or commit seppuku. Really, either way CW needs to stop humiliating himself and his alma mater. Maybe the pussies on the BOT will get frightened that he is hurting the "brand" and actually help him out the door, but I doubt it.
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:50 am | #
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charlie did not reload with mercenaries like Saban and Meyer and others did
He got true student athletes
Today, the boys did not get the breaks
Weis' Dad | Email | Homepage | 11.07.09 - 8:09 pm | #
Navy wins by recruiting thugs, right?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:51 am | #
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Two things that really bother me. They say so much about the status of ND football.
When Navy one it was no big deal they werent even that shocked by it. Just so matter of fact.
Lou usualy goes nuts and tells Mark May about ND pride and all it stands for. When they showed the highlights Lou just sat there quietly and said nothing. Even he doesnt believe Charlie is the right man for the job.
TJ | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:57 am | #
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amen, tridentum. we will be paying for that poor decision for eternity, i fear. the futility of mediocrity is our hell.
ODog | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:57 am | #
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Why hasn't Notre Dame been able to find a long term solution at Coach since 1974?
Not being snarky, just asking people older than me.
Is it a slew of 9 consecutive bad coaches? Is it unrealistic expectations by the base? What is a realistic level of success?
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:59 am | #
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aaronb,
Google "Lou Holtz" sometime. Coached just as long as Ara and was damn successful.
Dome Sweet Dome | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:08 am | #
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Billboard,
"Downfall" was great!
P.S. CW = HC intern.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:11 am | #
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the kangaroo court on espn's football wrap was whether weis should be fired. for once, i agreed with the blind oracle. god bless lou, but you could tell he had a tough time making an argument for keeping weis...
ODog | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:13 am | #
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Weak theology, gentlemen. Whatever the Lord Almighty thinks of Obama speaking at Notre Dame - punishments are not doled out in such trivial fashion as affecting football results, nor as your theology classes should have taught you in a generalized fashion or on this side of the grave.
I'm assuming the comments are tongue-in-cheek - because otherwise they are superstitious blasphemy that smack of what some of my priest friends refer to as "Catholic fascism."
An excellent example of why politics should be discouraged on this board, as it is.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:16 am | #
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I've been a Weis well-wisher for this whole time, but I'm starting to move to the back of the wagon. He just doesn't seem to be able to put it all together. I'm sad for the players, I'm sad for Notre Dame, I'm sad for us the fans, I'm even sad for Charlie Weis. He really does care about this team, the school, the players, the coaches, but he just hasn't been able to get it done. The worst part is this team could end up 6-6, or 8-4 at best. I really wanted him to do well here, and at this point I think we need to win out for him to keep his job or be turned down by every coach we approach with the money truck.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:16 am | #
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How was Lou's tenure ended?
aaronb | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:20 am | #
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Nothing? You NEED Al Golden.
Just think, if you get him, you might actually be GOOD again.
CW IS a great GUY and a great AMERICAN. But he does coach like crap.
Sitting on my couch, I know how to beat my favorite team - NAVY- run the ball.
So what does ND do? Throw all the time. AWESOME.
Casey Ryan | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:29 am | #
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aaronb,
By "AD" (aka politico stuffed shirt) Wadsworth (aka "DickWad" "Wadsworthless") acting as an admin stooge.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:29 am | #
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So this is Obama's fault? Wow. A new low in college football fandom.
skip | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:32 am | #
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no worries there, jimk.
although i like the tie-in with Catholic fascism on the day we were brought to our knees by the US Naval Academy...armed services triumphant over fascism once again!
ODog | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:41 am | #
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Just a bit more.
When Lou always beat Navy guess what he did.
Rammed the ball down Navy's throat with bigger line man and bigger running backs.
Navy could never stop 30 robert hughes runs. So this ND team could easily beat Navy, just not by throwing every time.
Be biggger. Lou knew that and so did Willingham and Davie. Check the stats whenever ND-Navy played, ND usually just plowed us, but now CW, he LOVES to throw. USNA loves it too!!!
Casey Ryan | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:44 am | #
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ThE LoSt BoY 1:29 am,
you're saying wadsworth fired holtz?there's much more to it than that...
cmhirish | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:51 am | #
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Skip,
The new low is having frickin' NAVY trolls talkin' smack.
T'anks, CW!
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:51 am | #
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Wow.
I went to bed after monitoring until halftime (2 AM my time), since I couldn't hear or see the game (crappy internet here in Herat, worse than Kabul) and my wife and I were just getting frustrated trying to make Skype work.
I woke up, and my worst fears realized--we didn't come back and score 45 in the 2nd half, and we lost. To Navy. At home. Again.
Didn't see the game, read the recap but didn't need to. This tells us all we need to know.
I like Charlie. I really do. He "gets" ND in a way that Ty and Davie never could. He's brought us a long way from the depths of those two. As I've said in the past, though, and is now irrevocably confirmed--Charlie can only bring us so far. He's the Doug Collins; built the Bulls, put together the starting 5 of Jordan, Pippen, Grant, Cartwright, and Paxon. Got us to the playoffs, through the first round (Bowl win vs. Hawaii). But we keep running into the Pistons...the Bad Boys (USC, Michigan....and Navy? Really, any actually good team with a winning record) and get put back into our place. We need a Phil Jackson to take a talented group of players and turn them into champions. Charlie/Doug can't do it. He's reached his ceiling. Retaining him only sets a new, lower standard.
For the record, I liked Ty too, until the very end when he left ND like the Russians scorching the earth behind them. Still, it was obvious that he wasn't the man. I've waited until now to finally decide on Charlie, but you can't argue with 2 losses to Navy. Can't beat USC, loses to Michigan, but still making progress? Sure--i could support that. Loses to NAVY? No. Great scrappy team, sure--but 2007's excuses don't cut it anymore.
Who is our Phil Jackson? My vote is with Brian Kelly, for now. The majority of our complaints the last 3 coaches have focused on us wasting the great talent we get (TW recruiting excepted). What we need is someone who maximizes the talent they get--Kelly's got Cinci at #5, and no way you can tell me they have better talent than we do. His track record (Grand Valley State--NC's, Central Michigan--Bowl wins) is solid.
Swarbrick, get on the phone, get a deal signed, do not screw this up. Do not wait. Get him locked up before someone else does, and we're left with a scramble, again.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:53 am | #
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LOL ODog - point well taken. I'm sure the folks were just joshing.
The relevant point here on this board for me is the very strong sentiment against retaining Weis juxtaposed against the equally strong distaste for the idea of just grabbing whoever is available who looks good at the moment.
My gut tells me, though, that now and only now is Weis' job really on the line. A close loss to an honorable and traditional opponent, no matter how unnecessary and unjustified that loss is, will not get CW canned. But a total 2nd half of the season collapse as in '08 will end his tenure. If Pitt and Stanford hand us our butts, as they are entirely capable of doing - then Charlie's tenure will be over.
But I think that only became a real possibility today.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:56 am | #
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Nate,
Amen.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:57 am | #
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JimK, I won't disagree--well, I disagree that his job should just now be on the line, his job SHOULD be over.
But, I will grant that our admin hasn't shown the "killer instinct" we'd like, just like our team.
If we were to win out, I'd say he needs to go, but I'd be surprised if we did fire him.
This is why, if we haven't already done our research and made contact with the possible candidates who are capable, we're screwed. Swarbrick should have already sent out feelers--if not, he needs to have certain agents on speed dial as of yesterday. Get the prospect lined up, and pull the trigger.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 2:20 am | #
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The USNA has lowered it's admissions standards recently in order to be more competitive on the gridiron. USNA professor Bruce Fleming has published a couple critical articles on this subject ... and subsequently been labeled a racist.
Navy no doubt has attracted better athletes recently and this in no way justifies the ND losses.
Navy teams not long ago regularly lost to I-AA teams like Delaware. Recent Midshipmen teams are the equivalent of a good but not great Big East team.
first state irish | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 2:25 am | #
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I think Charlie has been a HELL of a recruiter. look what he has brought in compared to Ty or even Davie. But what he has done with that talent is a whole other argument. He has done less with more. Plain and simple. I let the 07 Navy loss slide because of the total lack of depth and talent.
In 07 we were the Pittsburgh Pirates. A minor league team wearing major league uniforms. This loss is the nail in the coffin. I don't care if ND beats Pitt 206-2. Charlie has to go. As a man, I think he is great. As an ambassador of the university he is great. As a head coach, he not a good fit.
President Rome | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 2:27 am | #
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What I meant, Nate, was what you term the administration's lack of a killer instinct - that they figured they could weather 9-3 or maybe even 8-4 plus a bowl. But the combination of the outcry against this embarrassing and unnecessary loss - at home - and the very real possibility that we could lose to two strong peer teams (meaning good but not elite) on the road in Pitt and Stanford makes today, as I see it, the turning point for those administrators who would just like the whole mess to quiet down. After the exposure and ridicule (unjustified, but it'll be there) that we'll be subject to, even the most diehard Weis supporter will just not be able to absolve him if there is further humiliation this year. IMHO, of course. And keep your head down over there!
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 2:50 am | #
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I think Stadium dude is actually Weis' Dad with an alias. After Last season I definitely wanted Charlie to go. However, I thought he made some good hires and would not get involved with denouncing him until the season is not salvageable. Now is the time to start looking. People always say that the recruits will not come. Maybe that is true. It is just a bump in the road. Cut the losses on move on. Make some calls to Gainsville, Cincy and Boise.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 3:35 am | #
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Will Notre Dame poach from the Big East? Anyone desiring Pope Urban, rooted for the Hessians in the Revolutionary War.
Stick with CW. What the hell.
How about Tommy Tubberville(sp) ex-
auburn coach? Great D coach. BTW, CW's disciple Mike Haywood is something like 1-9 at Miami of O.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 4:12 am | #
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Gotcha, JimK.
And I'm trying...Herat is...different. But good Italian food.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 4:20 am | #
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"...NAVY's one of the 5 best non-BCS teams- this is a team that but for a missed 2pt conversion and a freak play in Pittsburgh, is unbeaten with 3 wins over BCS teams."
WTF is this guy talking about?
Niumatalolo: "It was a thorough butt-whipping...
Oh...he was talking about Pitt there...a team that actually beat Navy.
and
"The Midshipmen's 129 rushing yards was their lowest output since Oct. 14, 2006, and Dobbs was held to fewer than 100 yards passing for the first time this season."
So...uh...yeah...some of us win games...other of us talk about "could have been" and whatnot...i guess you're still returning to glory or whatever...
So far in this thread we've heard the following excuses:
"Our admission standards are too high to outrecruit teams like Navy and Cinci...they're beating us in recruiting."
"South Bend is not a destination spot for 18 year olds...unlike anapolis and a one way ticket to iraq."
And the new classic:
"Its NBC's fault."
Your school has reached rock bottom, an has begun digging. Congrats.
Stuart | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 4:35 am | #
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"i work at in university administration, and let's be honest- funds are tight everywhere. can notre dame justify paying out the final 5 years of a contract when students are struggling for scholarships and our university is facing decreased donations?"
It seems to me that the best way to get donations is to win football games. As for a buyout, I would assume that there are some alums with deep pockets who would gladly help with a buyout.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 4:46 am | #
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I think a lot of you are getting ahead of yourselves regarding Weis being fired.
I'm not saying he won't be, but it's not a sure thing and we still have a couple of big games and if he wins those he may be okay. But, I admit, this one is harder to take.
As for the game...
Defensive strategy for this game was an EPIC FAIL. I mean, were the defensive coaches the only people on Planet Earth who didn't realize that the option was coming and, if so, could they not make the necessary adjustments to fix it?
Second, what is our f'ing problem in the red zone? I almost want them to go for a TD pass 30 yards out or so because our red zone offense just can't get the ball in.
moe montana | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 5:31 am | #
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anyone interested in fitzgerald from NW?
belocki | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 6:38 am | #
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Thank God for this site.I get to vent and not at my wife.It`s bad enough watchinbg the game but those 2 bozos announcing should be banned.I turned the sound off after the graphic showed that ND outweighed Navy by 10 lbs per lineman.Haden kept repeating that it was 40 to 50 lbs per man.Does he not trust his own graphic?
Then the graphic was out gained 128 rushing yds. to minus 1 for ND,not mentioning the passing yds at the time when ND had a big edge.
When Weis said Te O should have a field day,I knew we were in trouble.Defending the option should be assignment and discipline oriented.People are given responsibility for the FB, QB and Pitchman. Apparently this was not the case.It looked pretty haphazzard to me.This is like Hell.You get to watch the Irish play every week, but they play like this.
irishjh2 | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 6:58 am | #
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Does CW love ND enough to stay on as OC? Given his ineptitude to be a head coach, I find little fault in his offense. The defense lost the game, and it lost the Michigan game, and it lost the USC game.
Tate4Tat | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:04 am | #
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I like the Fitzgerald idea.....
What he has done at Northwestern has been almost as impressive as a coach we got from there in 1964.....
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:06 am | #
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I dont think we had any game tape from the OSU-Navy game. The University of Navy did exactly the same thing to OSU as they did to us. By the way, I saw Montana has horrendous numbers on the season out in Pasadena....hope to God Clausen stays another year with Crist's injury
Tate4Tat | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:07 am | #
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My guess is he would jump ship before their bowl game too.... assembling a staff and holding on to recruits has to be a huge priorty....
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:08 am | #
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Apparently the Navy coach's quote is that they watched the film from last year. saw how ND stopped them and knew they would try the same thing again.. .which is what they did.... duh...
Tenuta and Weis were made to look quite silly yesterday
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:10 am | #
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My small value thoughts:
1. Preliminarily, the NBC telecasts are awful. The crowd noise is muffled, the announcers are bland and prone to errors and/or biases and the commercial interruptions are too extensive. A game on NBC is 30-40 minutes longer than on other networks. The old radio broadcasts with Roberts and Pagna were the best.
2. The lack of preparation by the defensive coaches was totally mystifying. The CBs in particular were "lost". It may have been the worst job of defensive coaching by an ND team in many, many years.
3. The cries to fire Weis are understandable as are the quick reactions to hire everyone from coast to coast and border to border. But the decision and the process are not easy. ND has made some big mistakes since Mike Wadsworth's and Monk Malloy's egos, among other reasons, forced Holtz out-Davie, O'Leary, Willingham. The Board of Trustees will make the ultimate decision and both financial and non-financial factors will be considered. If a coaching change is made, the new coach has to have had head coaching experience at the college level, has to want to be and stay at ND and fully uderstands and appreciates ND's standards. Will that happen?
pennsyalum | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:29 am | #
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Can everyone smell it? Its that magical time of the year again. When the leaves are finished falling, the air has a crisp-ness to it that foretells winter, and the Notre Dame fan base is looking for a new HC. AAAAH, and as the squirrels bury their nuts for winter, bears preparing themselves for hibernation, all the coaches across the land look towards o' little town of South Bend for their one chance a year to become the leaders of the greatest gig on the planet.
Shall they give up their plush job in sunny florida or california to raid the banks of the St. Joseph? Will a leader from the ranks of professional athletes step up to the glorious position as pope of college football? Will a conquerer of a non-traditional powerhouse program step away from the banks of the ohio or the potato fields of the northwest and brave the winds of constant scrutiny? Whom will be the chosen one?
Tate4Tat | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:34 am | #
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In 2007 it took Navy three overtimes to break our 43 game winning streak against them.
In 2009 it took Navy regulation time to break our 1 game winning streak against them.
Are we getting worse or are they getting better?
Does this mean the beginning of a ND losing streak against Navy?
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:36 am | #
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Like you nerds know anything.
Just take notes. The adults are in charge. We are watching you and future ticket rights may depend on it.
Guy with real info | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 8:11 am | #
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Navy plays like we used to play.
irishbadger | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 8:14 am | #
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Belocki--I like the idea of Fitz, and it's not like we haven't poached a good coach from NW before. But I think Grobe should also be in the mix. Very few coaches have consistently done more with less for a number of years now, and at a small school with challenging academic standards.
irishlaw07 | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 8:15 am | #
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not sold on grobe; he has done well, but built a system around redshriting every freshman, keeping mistakes down and winning 8 a year. nice job, but we can go better
belocki | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 8:34 am | #
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Do you guys really think the same gutless AD who's given us Tulsa, Army, and Western Michigan will pull the trigger if by some miracle CW wins out, or takes 2/3? In the middle of a monstrous recession, with an obscene buy out no less?
I will never cheer for an ND loss, but i fear our only hope of ending the Charlie Weis experiment is for us to go 7-5 or 6-6.
scott | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 8:40 am | #
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To Pat and the Guys at BGS,
Thanks for doing such a wonderful job covering ND football this year. I wish Charlie's coaching was half as good as the job you've done so far. I hope you will continue to follow the season with your great analysis despite the disappointing turn it took yesterday.
If nothing else, it might help keep you and your readers sane...
Like many posters above, I hope Charlie is gone after this year, but I won't root for us to lose to make it happen.
GO Irish, Beat Panthers!
wkurtz94 | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 9:14 am | #
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I was at the game. A beautiful day for a football game. I got tickets from a Navy player. ND gives the families great seats. 11th row end seat. Great tickets. Unfortunately, Weis couldnt hear me. I am tired of watching uninspired football. We should NEVER lose to Navy. That is not taking anything away from those fine young men. We play them every year, we know what we are going to get when we do. 60 minutes of fight. We know what offense they are going to run. How in the hell could we not be prepared for them? When the mother of a Navy player can call our plays on the goal line well,what does that tell you. No imagination in the red one. Never a slant,never a rub off, same plays every time. Run the slowest back we have wide from the two? I love Robert Hughes, keep him between the tackles. Never a dump over the middle to the back on the goal line. Tight end non-existent, I could go on. We should start the game in the 4th quarter and go backwards.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 9:30 am | #
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Anchors Away, Charlie! How appropo.
Bubba Du Lac | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 9:33 am | #
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Stuart - if you took my comments to mean, "Its [sic] NBC's fault," your standardized test scores in reading comprehension must be pretty ugly...
bpeters1 | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 9:44 am | #
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No more excuses. Weis apologists have to FINALLY wake up and realize this guy is way over his head. This is a guy whose "signature win" is a couple close losses to South California.
Big deal. Don't let the door hit you in your huge ass as you leave
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 10:05 am | #
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I'm officially on the fire Weis wagon now. For along time I have supported the guy, and hoped for the best. Losing is unacceptable. Not beating a Top 25 team in 3 years is unacceptable. Navy has a pretty good team, and has for years, but losing to them twice is unacceptable. We need a head coach.
1. Brian Kelly
2. Urban Meyer (you never know with Tebow gone)
3. Gary Patterson from TCU
4. Jon Gruden
5. The Ghost of Rockne
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 10:27 am | #
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No Gruden.
No NFL coaches with only one good year to their resume.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 10:50 am | #
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Maybe the Debartolo family can buy out the contract and save the university some money for academics while saving the football program from this funnel.
No Mercy | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 10:51 am | #
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First I think it's important to consider that a track record of "more with less" is not necesarily the new coach were looking for. Managing the ND job is a uniquely difficult challenge in that winning football games is not the only top priority and that is the key issue.
I think that we need a proven winner from a major program or were just rolling the dice - which I don't think current admin can be trusted with...
Unfortunately this horrible loss forces our hand -cw is dead man walking - so unless/until he's replaced recruiting this year is done (and were short in a lot of spots ). So we need to address this sooner than later - prob with a Jack S comment supporting CW through years end or until they can secure a name. In any case there might be one chance left for CW - IF he can get everyone to agree to come back, hire a new D coord, he might hang on another year but I think it's highly unlikely...
Our hope now has to be that new guy can arrive and take this talent to the top quickly!
Pickel | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 10:52 am | #
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Pickel. You're right. I'm not sure who can coach at ND with all of its challenges. If you do poorly at ND, you career as a coach takes a hit also. It's a coaching dead end (e.g. davie, ty and now CW).
Now what?
Sterling James | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 11:12 am | #
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the scary thing is this thing could implode; weis gone, jimmy and tate gone, te'o goes on mission and never comes back, recruits gone, crist hurt.
man, this thing could blow up in an ugly way.
belocki | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 11:14 am | #
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So who do y'all think ND is gonna hire?
sebie | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 11:26 am | #
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F-ing Navy. Again. Enough said. He's gotta go
S-man | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 11:28 am | #
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belocki,
I fail to see how this could get any worse. I honestly would rather see change and a completely horrible 2-10 team than sustained mediocrity.
Lou Holtz once said that great teams and terrible teams are at least memorable. Mediocre teams are easily forgotten.
Brad | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 12:06 pm | #
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People.
Get your metaphors right.
This was not Waterloo.
We lost to Navy.
Ergo, it's Tsushima.
And the day we join a conference will in analogy be the day the Bolsheviks oust the Czar.
Wooderson | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:28 pm | #
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Great analysis and post, Jay.
bpeters1 | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:46 pm | #
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Whoops, wrong thread
bpeters1 | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 1:46 pm | #
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Brad has it right, its better to take a chance on another coach than suffer through with sure mediocrity.
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 3:52 pm | #
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"It seems to me that the best way to get donations is to win football games. As for a buyout, I would assume that there are some alums with deep pockets who would gladly help with a buyout."
If Indiana can keep finding people to donate money to clean up the Bob Knight mess, I'm sure we can find someone to help with buy outs and whatnot.
MattJ | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 7:18 pm | #
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I have tried to stay in his conrner the past five years, but after yesterday I have had it. I don't care of we lose every single player and wipe the entire slate clean. It's time to start over.
Get a young head coach (Division III if necessary) who has a proven track record as a successful HC.
IMIRISH | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 8:54 pm | #
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With apologies to songwriters Larry Banks & Milton Bennett.
linking textGo Now [Charlie Weis]
We've already said, "Goodbye."
And since you've got to go,
Oh, you had better go now.
Go now, go now, go now,
Before you see me cry.
I don't want you to tell me,
Just what you intend to do now.
'Cause how many times do
I have to tell you,
Charlie, Charlie,
I'm still in love, still in love,
With ND now?
We've already said, "So long."
(Ooo ooo-ooo.)
I don't want to see you lose.
But, oh, you had better go now.
Go now, go now, go now.
Don't you even try to tell me,
That you really don't wanna
See it end this way, now.
Don'tcha know if you
Really meant what you said,
Charlie, Charlie,Charlie,
I wouldn't have to keep on
Beggin' you, beggin' you, beggin' you,
Beggin' you to coach.
Go, go now, (goodbye, goodbye),
Before your tears start to fall,
I think you better go now.
[Fade.]
Go now, (goodbye, goodbye).
Before I fall down on my knees.
And start to bawlin', go now...
Neal Deesit | Email | Homepage | 11.08.09 - 9:11 pm | #
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Thank you Charlie, you have now put me in the uncomfortable position of rooting AGAINST my beloved Irish for the remaining 3 games of the season. I have no other choice. Losing out is the only way I can be confidant that your services will be no longer needed at ND.
Your head coaching internship has officially ended, back to the booth you go.
Don't call me ever again.
S Man | Email | Homepage | 11.09.09 - 12:30 am | #
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Thanks Charlie. Good luck in your future endeavors. All the best health to Maura, Hanna, CWjr and yourself.
Ian Williams and Golden's quotes post-game say it all.
Wake me when the Adminstration wakes up.
Major Onions | Email | Homepage | 11.09.09 - 2:46 am | #
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S Man:
If you are rooting against the Irish in the last three games please do not hold yourself out as a true ND fan. That kind of statement and mindset are disgusting. You have relegated yourself to the same depths as Penn State fans.
pennsyalum | Email | Homepage | 11.09.09 - 6:46 am | #
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Penny,
It is the only way, my young, dainty grasshopper.
Some day you will understand.
S Man | Email | Homepage | 11.09.09 - 1:13 pm | #
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