Superb piece Jay.
That is a superlative description of Coach Charlie Weis.
Great 'toon by the way.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 11:20 am | #

With all this pending progress to be made be the team & Charlie's schemeing (he had Penn St beat), do I hear a Notre Dame Moment building for the USC game?
Go Manor | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 11:22 am | #

Sigh, shush "go manor"

Let's worry about Purdue first. And let's keep playing the kids (just about everything positive on this team is done by a freshman or soph, which is exciting)
Matt | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 11:42 am | #

i like the sentiment of this piece, and it's well written, but i don't know if it's really true that we could've lost to GT by only 10, or 6 to PSU, or 14 to UM - we couldnt get a first down for long stretches of those games, no matter what kind of plays we ran - it wasn't cause we were gambling, or being aggressive, we just did not look like a team that could move the ball, at all, and w/out that, we werent gonna stay close in those games. i get the point that by not working on square 1 fundamentals all off season, and instead trying to scheme his way to victory, charlie risked a lot, and that's fine by me - its what makes him a good coach...and i think this piece is right on the money...i just don't think we could've been much closer this year.
regarding the blowouts the last couple of years - i concede the point, we kept throwing, gambling, and it resulted in more opponent points and a bigger margin of defeat, and that's fine w/ me...we lose, we lose. but this year, we were overmatched and i don't know if that would've changed even if things were done differently
MOC | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 11:45 am | #

my biggest concern is not that we've lost, but more how. it's that we seemed to never make halftime adjustments like our opponents do. many of the losses have been close at halftime, only to see the irish shut down in the second half, or see the opponent start to have their way offensively, or both.
yz | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:16 pm | #

Is it Saturday yet?

I'm anxious to see if ND can run the ball 2 games in a row. I'd like to see ND knock out 200+ net rushing yards against 1AA Purdue.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:19 pm | #

Agree completely with the piece by Pete. I'll still hate it when we lose, but I will also be somewhat content to just see improvement. Because that improvement will build towards 2008 and 2009, when I can smile and nod at every single person who is bashing us now.

MOC, I don't think Pete was actually saying that our losses could have easily been closer. If you go back and read it again, I think you'll see that he just meant that even if they had been close losses, they would still have been losses, and that's all that Weis cares about. The word "could" was just the wording he chose to express that. I could be wrong, that's just how I interpreted it.

And, I have to say it...if little 5'8", 190-lb. George West can put together a few blocks, then our linemen can certainly pull it off. Maybe he can give them some tips.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:29 pm | #

It seems that the approach wasnt based purely on offensive potential, but also with a realization that the defense was going to have a hard time keeping teams under 20 pts. If Weis thought that the D could keep most teams to 13-17 points, I'm fairly certain he would have approached the spring and fall with a far more rudimentary and focused run-attack that could perhaps be counted on for a couple TDs per game, but no more.

Instead, Weis, as the author noted, gambled on trying to create an offense that could potentially, if all the stars aligned, score 3 or 4 TDs a game, thereby keeping alive the chances of victory knowing the defense was probably going to be giving up the same amount.

Boiled down, from all of Weis' comments and actions, it seems that he could not accept going into a game being fairly certain that the team would lose 28-14. Hoping for miraculous fumbles, CB slips, etc is not his style.

The plan failed. He's realized this. He's fixing it.
Alex | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:34 pm | #

I'm not sure I understand complementing someone for trying to win and losing badly, instead of what? trying to lose and losing a close one.
pete | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:35 pm | #

In Charlie I trust.

We'll eventually get there and when we do, each victory will be that much sweeter.
Irish_Angst | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:36 pm | #

Not to necessarily compare the two regimes or circumstances as the same, but when Holtz got here he went 5-6 but you could see improvement and potential onthe field, especially in the last USC game. The team looked like they were coached, no stupid penalties, a winning attitude returned, full of heart, etc.

I don't see as much of that this year. I see potential at QB and also on defense (if they ever get some help from the ND offense). I just see an offensive line that is frankly inept, out of shape, doesn't know who to block, lacks heart and is fundamentally unsound.

If this team ever gets an o-line that can block, look out, the run will be there to balance off the pass, the QB will have time to pass deep and show off his arm, and the defense will get a rest. This OLine just seems to stand there sometimes, and the rest of the team pays for it. You wouldn't have seen that under Holtz...this is a grave miscalculation by Weis and his staff, not to have worked harder with this group to get them to block basic schemes well.

Until then it is gonna be painful against everybody...and I mean everybody. think Navy can outfox this O line...sure, they are always fundamentally sound and play all 60 minutes.
John B. | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:49 pm | #

I don't really see how this is a groundbreaking insight. Of course Weis thought his only chance to win was to paper over personnel deficiencies with scheme. How many people thought it was ego rather than a simple desire to win? The ego part was thinking that he could outscheme such huge deficiencies.

The cowboy stuff about always playing to win sounds real cool but the problem is that recruits watch these games also as do their friends. The difference between a 31 point loss and a 14 loss can be the difference between a recruit thinking a team is on its way up or incompetently coached. Perhaps if the Sugar Bowl or the SC game had been only, say, 14 point losses, Ben Martin, Martez Wilson and Justin Trattou would have been in South Bend Saturday.

I don't want to seem like I'm overly bagging on Weis. I still believe he has the football knowledge, intelligence, work ethic and ability to recognize and correct his mistakes to be very successful. But he made some colossal freaking miscalculations over the past nine months. The conventional wisdom was that he would build an RB based offense around his young line and inexperienced QB (whomever that may be). He's now doing that. Nine months too late but at least he's doing it.
Rick | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:50 pm | #

"The first three games were a complete wash...."

Clearly the reference to "a wash" was a Pete typo where he meant to type "a catastrophic debacle" instead, as there's no way he meant to suggest that the gains equaled the losses across these initial games.

But otherwise, this is, hands down, the best stab at an optimistic spin on Charlie's approach that I've seen to date. Let's just hope it's the accurate version of our current reality, the other worrisome option being that Charlie isn't effective at teaching fundamentals/underclassmen at the college level.

The only thing I will say with certainty is that there is no way I can know - acumen-less, as I am in the football department - which version has a firmer grasp on reality.

Apparently, I will also say that I would be very surprised if Charlie couldn't assemble a coaching staff capable of teaching the fundamentals.

Although, color me absolutely shocked that this seems to be exactly what happened this off-season. I simply don't understand how a coaching staff could miss? inappropriately weigh? the enormous deficiencies that clearly existed and take the risk of advanced game-planning, if that's what it was that we witnessed. This seems to have been an extraordinarily, poor judgment.

The idea that we can now simply choose option #1 - teaching the fundamentals as we rebuild - is certainly something we'd love to believe. But, can we trust this task to the same staff that made the assessment that we could proceed with the team as it was to start the season?
Eamus Irish | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:51 pm | #

This team WILL breakout and have a great game this season. They will have a game that will leave us scratching our heads and saying, "Where did THAT come from?" Will it be this week against Purdue? Will it be against USC? Will it be against, (gulp!) Boston College? I don't know, but I will root and cheer every single game this season as though it will happen that week. Coach Weis may or may not have made horrible mistakes last spring or in fall, but I wasn't there, so I can't really say. I can say this is MY team and I hope it is yours too. We are past the worst of it. Now, we are playing for pride and the future. This team will have a great game this season. All the cogs will come together and the pistons will be firing at once and we will have a game that gives us the joy we are all yearning for. Until that happens, I will continue to yelling and cheering and supporting this team. Saturdays in the Fall are all about the Fighting Irish and if we only win one game, that will be a great Saturday!

Go get 'em Irish! Keep your heads up and keep fighting! Better days are ahead!
Jason D | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:53 pm | #

jeez & a thought i was optimistic, pass some of that kool-aid this way, my 55 gallon drum is getting low.
Can't wait for the season opener this Saturday.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 12:56 pm | #

You write about staying focused on the future...which i agree. But what better way to focus on the future then to play sophomores and freshmen the majority of the time this year. If not...it reminds me of Davie, in his first year coaching, agreeing to bring Powlus back as a 5th year senior. There was no reason...and it negatively affected the development of QBs for the next two years...effectively dooming Davie's coaching career at ND.
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:05 pm | #

Other than his ability to recruit, the thing I admire most about Coach Weis is his PR savvy. He definitely knows how to talk the talk, all swagger, and the Irish faithful have eaten it up. They still believe in his genius, despite all evidence to the contrary. They keep drinking the Kool-aid. I hope you're thirsty, because you're going to be drinking it for at least another few games
BC | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:13 pm | #

Thank you Pete. Of course it was ego; with Charlie it has been always ego. Hopefully he has learned, but after success with a relatively experienced group of players, a scheme that fits two big, terrific receivers and a GREAT QB, he starts this year off with no experience anywhere, a new defense NO QB coach (no boys and girls, Charlie never COACHED QBs) a basic 3-4 defense and NO linebacker coach and decides he's going to scheme his way through the year. Nine months down the toilet. Win big this year? Uh huh. If Tiller can score 200 this week he will, simply to remind Charlie that he and 11 other guys went to Coaching school too. There are no geniuses. Let's all read Aaron Taylor's piece on Joe Moore again. There is a price to be paid in order to win. The upside is of course the ego thing: Charlie is NEVER going to let this happen again. He will win in the future; his ego will not allow him to do otherwise. We'll be ok but it will take time.
domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:29 pm | #

Domerplayer, not sure why you're saying that Weis never coached QB's. If you mean that he never had that title you're incorrect. New England listed him as their QB coach in 2001 and 2002. Of course, even without the title, he is one of the most respected QB caoches in football. It would be absurd to contend otherwise.
Rick | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:34 pm | #

Adversity. Adversity is a strange and
mysterious thing. For those faced with it it can trear you apart if you are emotionally weak. But if you are strong enought it can be a great asset. For a young team that hasn't been though a lot together, who hasn't had the time to bond with each other, it forces them to pull together.
Circle the wagons, learn about each other as well as them selves. I have followed Notre Dame football. I know that they have recrutied fine talented players. I have seen there coaches, as good as anyones. They have state of the art facilities and a fan base second to none. A wise man once said that what doesn't kill you will make you stronger. Life goes on. The sun will come up tomorrow, and a new oppertunity will be presented for this team to succeed. Every loss, every disparenging comment or media sports articial is fuel for the fire.
This team will continue to grow, develop, and improve. There is going to come a time when they turn the corner. And when they do, watch out.
A monster will be unleashed. Bent up with toughtness, togetherness, nastyness, cunning, and a score to settle. This team is paying their dues right now. It's building character. These thing will come together in the near future. You will see.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:36 pm | #

ok... I have a serious problem with the contention that CW doesn't care about appearances as it regards the GT game this year.

fourth quarter, trailing by a ton, ball near mid-field and its fourth down... what do you do if you don't care about appearances? you go for it. give your team a shot at converting a 4th down. give your frosh QB who has only been in for a half a chance to convert.

instead he punts, in what appears to me to be an attempt to keep GT from scoring and winning by 40. Who cares!!!

that showed a total lack of heart that I never expected to see from a CW team
Domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:36 pm | #

In the stands against State, we kept asking "Where the hell is Hughes?" Give this kid 15+ touches and we will win......
mikes1160 | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:41 pm | #

no follow-up posts on how the surrender-flag strategy of handing out white towels worked out.

I guess the parallels between Notre Dame du Lac and the French resistance are just too obvious so we're letting it go?
Domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 1:43 pm | #

Or maybe we are just not all assholes, "domer"03inbmore.
M | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:08 pm | #

My God. Pete just summed up everything I'd been thinking about the way CW coaches, but was too afraid to say because I didn't want to look like a quixotic Kool-Aid drinker.

Bravo.
marchand chronicles | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:10 pm | #

Fook NPR.
T.Ohanlon | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:12 pm | #

I can't disagree with the premise that Weis strives to win. But, I think that philosophy presents two problems: 1) does that interfere with building up future teams to win National championships (when the current team has no chance of doing so)? and 2) can Weis only win with his past offensive philosophy?

A coach like Weis should have been able to tell that there was no way this years' team could run his complicated offense and win with only 7 returning starters on both sides of the ball. With only 2 returning starters on offense (Carlson at TE and Sullivan at C) an entirely different attitude (note I said attitude and not offensive scheme; teaching the spread option to first time starters in 5-weeks cannot equate to wins!) to offense should have been utilized.

This actually goes back to last year. I don't think the "win every game" mentality will win national championships until you've built up a team that has a legitimate shot. In the Stanford, NC, Airforce, Navy and Army games last year, Weis should have been rotating in the back-ups so that this years' starters had more than 5-mins of playing time. By the end of last year, we should have had a projected starter for 2007 between Sharpley, Jones, and Frazier, with Clausen having the opportunity to beat one of them.

This "win every game" mentality works in the NFL, because you can go 9-7 and still make the playoffs and (although unlikely) go to the Superbowl. If you go 9-7 because you don't have the right personel, no probelm, free agency and the draft can turn a 9-7 team, or even a sub-.500 team into a contender the next year.

But that's not the case in college. It's not as easy to simply plug in new starters. I watched Dayne Crist play last week and he was able to take off running from the pocket, stiff-arm linebackers, and break tackles the way Clausen unsuccessfully tries to do at the college level. The jump from highschool to pros is different, and I can't tell whether Weis understands that.

Overall, I support the team and Weis. Perhaps his having the ability to develop Quinn and the other upperclassmen and win right away the first two years was detrimental. Perhaps Weis is still learning the nuianzes of building a college program and teaching kids who just got out of high school, versus the just find a way to win mentality of the NFL.
Andrew | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:16 pm | #

Not exactly, Rick. Charlie's rep is working with QBs within his scheme, not coaching QBs and developing skill sets. At New England, Charlie had Brady who had been--dare I say it--very well coached in the mechanics and skills of the position at Michigan and was smart as hell. Not so with our kids yet. He fired Vaas for whatever reason (ego involving Quinn?) and simply doesn't--or shouldn't--have the time to coach (develop) QBs as a head coach. DJ had very poor mechanics; Clausen came here highly trained--can he continue to maintain that previous coaching? I doubt it without constant supervision He has flaws pointed out in this blog; he's a young talent that needs work. Paulus isn't the answer.
domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:17 pm | #

Wow. Pete can have a great career in PR, that is some "spin." Imagine if someone had written that Ty's 3 losses to USC were really better than the final score because, hey, we were in the game at half time, and the games got away because we were still trying to win. We'd all say that was malarkey.

I'm not anti-Charlie, and I am hopeful that this difficult season will pave the way for much better times to come. But I would suggest the first job of any executive/manager/head coach is to know his/her personnel well enough to understand what they can accomplish. CW didn't do that this year, and he must learn from this experience to become a better coach. I don't think he needs us to make excuses for him.
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:21 pm | #

M,

you're certainly not the first to call me an asshole, but that's a different story.

What I'm advocating is not to point fingers at the team for giving up. they played much better last weekend than they have all year. But I do think that the ND fanbase needs to make perfectly clear to Adidas that these gimmicks are unacceptable. I dread the thought of this team wearing the green jersey against USC - esp a throwback green jersey.

If they are going to try to manufacture some spirit for this listless team they are going to have to do better than 75,000 white towels, which not only imply surrender, but also happen to be one of the primary colors of that weeks opponent.

That's just stupid.

Am I an asshole for pointing this out?
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:23 pm | #

Agree, he played to win with the hand that was dealt him. Seems some people have simply forgotten the past two saesons when they talk about how he 'horribly misjudged' this or 'grossly miscalculated that'. Where were the complaints when he was taking us to BCS bowls? He realized coming in that we were going to have a rough going, and does what he does: gambled.

Personally I am glad he did. Better to take a shot at winning than simply give up on the season and play an all-frosh team.

I think maybe in some hypothetical bubble we win 1/500 times in those first 3 games, with the odds getting better against MSU.

I'd make the analogy of a rusher trying to break through a wall of tacklers. It's safer to simply lower your shoulder and not gain any more yardage, but its better/more courageous to try to push through even if you get your head taken off. Right now we are getting killed, but it's going to be worth it down the road.

GO IRISH
piyachi | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:26 pm | #

"A coach like Weis should have been able to tell that there was no way this years' team could run his complicated offense and win with only 7 returning starters on both sides of the ball."

Yes, maybe he should have. But he didn't. I think it's pretty safe to say that he knows that was the wrong move and he's working to correct it. Do you honestly think he's not going to learn from his mistakes? For all his faults (arrogance, etc.), I don't think Charlie Weis is stupid. He was misguided in judgment (which should probably be allowed once in awhile) and harping on it rather than just letting it go isn't going to help anything.

domerplayer, you have a good point in that Weis has never really developed a player from start to finish (although I will say that if Brady really had such great mechanics coming out of Michigan, he probably wouldn't have been a 6th round pick). But that is just simply lack of opportunity. Give him time; Clausen has literally started THREE games, as a true freshman, without the benefit of a full go at fall practice. That's a little too soon to be saying, "Weis can't coach QBs," and, frankly, "Powlus is not the answer."
Jade | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:27 pm | #

domer03 - I think he ws just trying to make a joke about the french, not call you an a-hole.
piyachi | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:29 pm | #

This is a perfect catch-22. You can't possibly think that Weis could go wrong because he's one of you -- he's a Notre Dame alum. I just hope you keep defending him after every loss. I LIKE. VERY NICE.
Johnny Drama | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:35 pm | #

Johnny,

even benedict arnold was "one of us"

we all know how that went down
domer03inbmore | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:38 pm | #

Did anybody read Pete's piece as an apology for Charlie? I sure didn't.

He f'd up, he realizes it, he's trying to fix it. That's a far sight better than our last two dunderheads.
Jay | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 2:48 pm | #

This piece is a bit too rosy for me. I think we're a bad football team right now, and I don't see it getting much better. We had one drive against MSU resulting in a touchdown--that Travis Thomas touchdown was a gift. That's the one good drive we've had all year. To paraphrase Harry Doyle (Major League): One Drive? One G-dd-mn drive? That's all we got?

I don't think its outside the realm of possibility for us to lose every game this year. Yes, even Duke and Stanford. Why? Because we're not motivated.

Charlie has cultivated the persona of a cold, calculating robot. That may work in the pros, but that's because those guys are pros. They have a different mentality and they're older.

We have a young team, these guys are kids. We need someone to get them fired up, to make that extra effort that I do not get the sense they are making right now. I think these kids need someone to stoke the fire in their bellies.

The best coaches I can think of are not renowned for their play-calling acumen (no doubt they had it), but for their ability to be master motivators and leaders, and inspire their team. This is not to say I think Charlie should go. He's the brains of the operation, and a good person to have as the brains. I just think we need a heart. Somebody call the tin man so we can find out where he got his.
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 3:09 pm | #

Jay -

I read Pete's piece as an apology for Charlie, and judging by the comments above I was not alone in doing so.

I don't think you can summarize Pete's take on Weis as "he screwed up, he realizes it, he's trying to fix it."

I think you can summarize Pete's take on Weis as "he gambled and lost, he realizes it, but it was the kind of heroic gamble that makes us Kool-aid drinkers love him so much."

I join Andrew and rays15 in thinking that trying to out-scheme a series of tough opponents with a young and unseasoned squad was not just a calculated risk: it was foolhardy. And I join them and lots of other people in thinking that he recognizes the mistake and won't make it again.
Joe Magarac | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 3:49 pm | #

I think people take charlie's presser demeanor as way too much of a represenation. Watch him while on the sidelines of a game and you'll see as much fire and heart as Lou Holtz ever had. He's also calm while talking to the qb--makes sense...no qb needs to be screamed at while being told what play to run.
Tommy O | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 3:50 pm | #

Charlie measures a loss just like the NFL, it's 1 game, thescore doesn't matter. I do not believe any decent recruit cares whether you ost by 30 or 6. Weis can easily that and point to all the key freshmen contributors.
Speaking of which, I will be very disappointed if Messrs Brian Smith and Kerry Neal are not in the starting lineup. Vernaglia and Ryan are not fast enough to blitz or cover a back out of the backfield. I also expect to McNeil a lot and Zibby and Bruton have a chance for the highlight reel. Obviously, we need to keep any kick returns inside the Purdue 30. This can be our first win.
psdo51 | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 4:07 pm | #

Lotta good comments here.

To clarify things:

While I am a Weis supporter, I am by no means a Weis apologist. He rolled the dice with his schematic ability, and he somehow managed to roll zero. Maybe even negative one.

But I think the main thing to take away from all of this is that you can't look at the first four games as a whole, but I think it's more productive to look at it as three games where Weis was a schemin' demon, and one where he realized he had to do this piece by piece.

We looked a hell of a lot better when we got back to basics than anytime when we were trying to strategize our way to victory.

Georgia Tech had the failed spread attempt. Penn State was dink and dunk central. Michigan was another failed attempt at a spread-like thing. Michigan State, we lined up on the ball, ran it around a bit, and tried to include some passes in there.

I don't think Weis looked at the team before the season started and decided to deliberately forgo fundamental coaching, but rather thought he had a better chance of winning now by devoting his time to scheming.

It was a huge risk, and probably a bit rash. But that's who our coach is. You can't laud the man for his brass balls when the risks fall in our favor, then lambaste the guy when the chips go the other way.

I think it boils down to if you enjoyed the "gutsy" calls Weis made in the first two years, you need to exercise caution in laying into him too heavily for taking another gamble that didn't pay off.

Oh, and most importantly, it's a reminder that Weis has recognized his error and is setting out to fix it. And, for all intents and purposes, the Notre Dame team that played against MSU should be the worse we'll see this team play for the rest of the year, opponent notwithstanding.

We're going to get better, which means the wailing and gnashing of teeth period can now end, and we can start enjoying better and better football each week.
Pete | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 4:07 pm | #

Jay, I did read the piece as an apology. In any business, or sport, you gotta get the fundamentals right or else the rest of the stuff doesn't matter. If you're General Motors, your fundamentals are the way you engineer and manufacture a car, and if you screw that up, it doesn't matter if your Corvette can go 0-60 in under five seconds or whether your marketing strategy is brilliant. Football starts with fundamentals of blocking and tackling; 'twas ever so, and a coach who overlooks this truth does so at peril to his team's success.
rays15 | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 4:13 pm | #

"Yes, maybe he should have. But he didn't. I think it's pretty safe to say that he knows that was the wrong move and he's working to correct it. Do you honestly think he's not going to learn from his mistakes?"

I don't fault him if he made a mistake. But this is the precise issue. Was this a mistake in planning and approach, or is this indicative of his inability to see the big picture as a college head coach? That's what we need, is a college coach. The luster of 4 rings is meaningless if it doesn't translate into success on this level.

Someone could argue that any coach who loses just made a mistake. But a series of "mistakes" are indicative of bigger problems. Suppose Willingham says he just chose the wrong gameplan in each game his last two seasons, or mistakenly chose the wrong players to recruit, or mistakenly didn't get enough players. You put all his "mistakes" together and you get the impression there is a simple fundamental flaw that kept him from being a great college coach: he doesn't understand how to be a great college coach.

I'm not trying to resurrect the weis/willingham comparisons. Hopefully you see my point that the question remains open whether the choices made thus far were just mistakes.

"For all his faults (arrogance, etc.), I don't think Charlie Weis is stupid."

I agree. But it's not intelligence or even offensive genius that is going to translate into success. It's wisdom. Wisdom is the right application of knowledge to circumstances. IMO, the risks he chose to take so far were not very wise.

"He was misguided in judgment (which should probably be allowed once in awhile) and harping on it rather than just letting it go isn't going to help anything."

As I said above, it will prove to be just a mistake if he can fix it. If he can't go back to fundamentals and build a team from scratch, then it's more than just mistakes. Hopefully not, as I want him, the players and the school to succeed.
Andrew | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 4:27 pm | #

I love to read people talk about what Coach Weis is like with his players or about how he acts in the locker room and at practice. You have no idea because you are not there. Do you really think the way he is with the media is the same way he treats his players? I am sick of hearing people say he is "losing" this team. Three guys leaving because they want more playing time does not mean he is alienating everyone else. In fact, if DJ did left under negative circumstances, why was he back for the MSU game showing recruits around and talking up the university? Don't talk about what you have no knowledge about. Support the team. It's okay to disagree with the coach and be a "Sunday Morning Quarterback", but don't make assumptions about things you know nothing about.

GO IRISH!! BEAT PURDUE!!!!
Jason D | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 4:39 pm | #

Jeeze...hasn't the "Weis this" and "Weis that" expired yet? Real boring, boys. Let me let you in on something...he's not going anywhere...
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:02 pm | #

Andrew,

The risks he took were not very wise in HINDSIGHT -and the opinions you make are most definitely that.
mikes1160 | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:09 pm | #

Jay ended his blog with:
"Agree? Disagree? Let's hear it."

What do you think people are going to talk about when asked to discuss an article on Weis' approach?
Andrew | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:09 pm | #

"Is it Saturday yet?

I'm anxious to see if ND can run the ball 2 games in a row. I'd like to see ND knock out 200+ net rushing yards against 1AA Purdue."



"1AA Purdue," huh? Considering Purdue is TWENTY-TWO POINT favorites against the Irish, I think I'd hold off on talking s---!
Prime Time | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:16 pm | #

mikes1160,

I don't disagree with you, but two things: 1) If I was privvy to info that Weis was implementing the spread option for GT, I would have said that was not very wise. Then it wouldn't be hindsight.

2) Coaches that implement the right strategies don't need to be analyzed in hindsight. Do we question whether Urban Meyer, Pete Caroll, Les Myles made good choices last year? Do we need to question whether Nick Saban has started off on the right foot by teaching fundamentals?

If you never look back to analyze why a mistake was a mistake, you're going to repeat the mistakes in the future. So failing to criticize in hindsight is unwise.
Andrew | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:17 pm | #

To sum it up it's a "Team" effort.

Questioning coaching strategies and level of motivation of the players are all legitimate concerns.

What separates this sight from so many others is how well these concerns are articulated. Kudos to BGS and the vast majority of its audience !
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:25 pm | #

People, wake up. We have become so anemic that a 17-point home loss to Sparty is constituted as "proof" Weis is a good coach? Dude, Sparty will be lucky to finish 6-6 . . . they suck. Unfortunately, we suck much, much worse. Weis is a fraud, plain and simple. I know, "my standards are too high." How dare I expect our offense to rank higher than 119th out of 119?
Bill S. | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:27 pm | #

Bill S.,

Hold off on your conviction of Weis until the end of the season. If we're still at the dregs of the league and don't look any better then than we do now, feel free to fire away at him. Until then, the proof is in the pudding, and that pudding is slowly starting to gel.

Trust me, it's a lot more fun at this point hoping the ship will right itself than flagellating yourself with the cat o'nine tails of despair.
Pete | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:35 pm | #

I thought pudding that gels gives you Montezuma's revenge?
Andrew | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:41 pm | #

John B,

Great post.
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 5:54 pm | #

Inferior talent and worse coaching, yet we still haven't lost to a D-IAA team. Imagine that.
IrishRugby | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 6:18 pm | #

I liked the Pravda analogy.

When the Soviet Union lost the eight game hockey series to Team Canada in 1972 by four games to three with one tied, Pravda reported only that the Soviet Team had scored more total goals in the tournament than Team Canada.

Onward Irish, toward a glorious future!
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 8:01 pm | #

I think Charlie does deserve a fair bit of flak for what's gone on so far. As others have said, how did they so misjudge the basic talent level of the O line.
Here's a criticism I haven't seen yet, so I'll claim credit- Charlie says he will always only plan and look at the current game. Thus he justifies 6 weeks of planning for GT.
What if we started with Buffalo in week one and played USC in week 2? I think he must adjust from the NFL approach and look past certain teams because it takes more than one week to prepare for USC etc.
I will give him huge credit for recognizing the problems and trying to deal with them directly, rather than give the cliche responses that predecessors gave. Bottom line- its up to him to get Clausen going. I don't mind Clausen throwing several interceptions if he is close to making the play.Flutie often said (when in Buffalo) that he just threw it up there and let the receiver make a play. It worked surprisingly often and we should adopt a similar approach
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 8:13 pm | #

Jay -

CW ia CFB's premier recruiter; he is, to date, a journeyman-quality (NPI) head coach.

This year's team is like a world famous restaurant: the kitchen has virtually every ingredient and appliance needed, but someone has made a horrible mistake with regards to the chefs.

We could've been 3-1 so far, had we college-level coaching on offense. We aren't near that level coaching.

Corwin Brown is the sole stud coach on this team; the "D's turnaround may be unprecedented in Irish History.

At best, the offense's performance, all things considered, is "mildly pathetic."

CW is showing some sizeable flaws, and the depth chart has nothing to do with it.

In 100 hours it's October. Just as last year, the sooner we all start taking a realistic look at the "product" we've been putting on the field, the better. We are in dire need of coaching. Excluding what we have on defense, I'll put every other coaching position on this team up for review.

Go Irish

ps - some good news: the very hot "Ms. Cheryl Burke" is back on ABC's 'Dancing With The Stars.'
Bill H. | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 8:28 pm | #

I vote for bringing back Willingham...seeing that it's his 5th year seniors, seniors and juniors who got us here.
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 9:49 pm | #

Bill H., if I'm to extend your kitchen analogy a bit, the current team has every ingredient needed, but, to make Charlie's famous soup, there's some bits that need to cook overnight, and they were just put on the stove a couple of hours ago.

(And to try to satisfy some diners who ordered it early, he and the cooks tried some substitutions that flopped.)
Mr. Wednesday | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 10:02 pm | #

We have a lot of people on here who know a lot more about football than the coach does. I am amazed that he isnt calling all of you up for advice. I would love to see Charlie turn the game over to you guys and let you call it so you can find out how damn smart you really are about the game. I guess those of you who graduated from the Dome got an injection of football expertism with your diplomas and those of us who didnt that feel we know so much because we called a few good plays on the playground on Sunday during a touch game. I am anxious to know how many of you actually have played the game, let alone coach in one. You all sit back and criticize CW like you know everything about the game and he knows absolutely nothing. We cant stand adversity, bottom line and when adversity strikes all of the Monday Morning QBs come out with their hindsight and pat themselves on the back for all the knowledge that they have. Weis cant coach QBs? I knew Quinn was well coached the first snap against Pitt because of the stance he had taking the snap. A small fundamental, that the previous staff didnt pick up for two years. Unless you have walked a sideline or strapped a chinstrap, you really know nothing about the game. Pete, you were right on, good article.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 10:48 pm | #

psdo51

Charlie measures a loss just like the NFL, it's 1 game, the score doesn't matter. I do not believe any decent recruit cares whether you ost by 30 or 6. Weis can easily that and point to all the key freshmen contributors.

Sorry, but I have to take isxue with you. If you use th esame theory in any other sport inhcluding football, it does not hold water. Take for instance track. I don't know if these 2 runners ran against each other. but take for instance Carl Lewis running against Jon Drummond. Let's say Lewis won and Drummond got third or forth. If I ran a separate race against Lewis and came in second because there were only 2 runners, I would be better than Drummond because I placed higher than Drummond against Lewis. The point differential did not make any difference according to your theory. In this case it was a time difference. This team has had historic blowouts and it does not matter. The pollsters think so. They rank the Irish at something like 113. The recruits look at it. The fans too. Look at late night TV and this cartoon with this post.

Don't get me wrong but I think CW has the potential to be a good coach. I thought he would be a great coach until this year. I only hope he will learn and adjust.

2 things catch my eye, the receiving on the opening kickoff is foolhardy with this kind of offense. Ara used to receive a lot of times and then have the defense stuff the opponent's offense and demoralize them.

The other thing that puzzles me is that there were big O line problems last yeat. They were never corrected and got terrible this year. What about the saying refering to things being built on a pile of cards.

I don't want a gambler as a coach. I want a winner. Compusive gamblers go to Gambling Anonomous. They are the laughing stock of the world initiating a fight in Iraq. Their odds are 50-50. They win big and lose big. Another poster mentioned that a good CEO takes calculated risks and not foolhardy ones. I can only hope it changes for the better.
GB | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 10:59 pm | #

Doug,

You're pretty f-ing arrogant. Nobody here is pretending to be a know-it-all except you.
DCDomer | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 11:00 pm | #

Doug

I do think I could coach this team to at least 119th out of 119 in offense. I would also make sure they all got their sheepskins and I would do it for $200,000. :>))
GB | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 11:10 pm | #

It is pretty much this simple. Weis inherited a recruiting mess, not only in quality but in QUANTITY. If you want to say he is a bad coach and should be fired, go ahead but tell us who you want as his replacement who will keep Weis' 19 recruits in the fold.
Lush | Email | Homepage | 09.26.07 - 11:27 pm | #

Pete,

Great insight but I'm still going to be critical of 3 straight blowout games. That's a long time for Charlie to get over his ego. 2+ years and he just now "gets it" [I hope, I'm not yet convinced].....that you have to teach fundamentals to college kids. I thought he was doing his homework, meeting with other coaches, etc in the off season.

I started out this season very angry at Ty. Now I'm very angry at Charlie. Did he not watch the film of GT? How did he not see that we were fundamentally awful after week 1, not week 3? [By that I mean, can't tackle, block, etc]

Not to mention his ego impeding his play calling ability. We should talk about, as Mike Frank did this week, ND's 80 yard TD drive mostly on the ground and then Charlie friggin' boot-legging out of our own endzone on first down of the very next drive. Christ. What was that call? RUN. THE. BALL. It was the only thing that's worked all year and we destroyed MSU with it on the previous drive.

Or let's go back to Fiesta Bowl 2005 when Darius was running all over tOSU and then Charlie quits running to throw. Then does it again against LSU in 2006. Can anyone tell me why he is so quick to stop running? It drives me friggin' insane.

I don't question scheming, he's great at it.....but when the $*#&$&#!!! scheme is working and then you just abandon it? What is going on?

ugh. This has been driving me nuts. I have no faith in him sticking to the run even if we're killing some team with it. Until he proves me wrong, he'll still get fancy with his play calling and stall drives that needn't be stalled. fine, call a pass to keep a defense honest, but call it from our own endzone when the run game was on fire? Jesus. There's risk taking and then there's being dumb.

One other thing I'm still concerned about is his business-like approach to coaching in college. I don't want the Poodle for a coach but I sure could use a little emotion like his from an ND team. Charlie still doesn't get this aspect of the college game. I don't think it's in his nature but at least find some guys on the team to whom it does come natural and get them to pump guys up.

And why do we continue to take the kickoff to start the game when our offense is awful? I attribute this to ego as well. He just can't get over himself. It gets in the way. He's gotten over a lot of it this year because things have gone so wrong that there aren't words to describe it. Do they have to continue to go that bad for him to continue to get over himself and change his ways?

Sorry to rant but its been building for a month now and just came out.

I just can't trust him when he changes some things that even my grandmother would know need changing and yet sticks to other things that also obviously need changing. I'm a huge Charlie fan but I still want to smack him upside the head until he snaps out of it.

Agh! Is it Saturday yet?

I am now going to take a sedative or 3 and sleep til game time because I clearly need it.
jaisn | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 1:10 am | #

Doug,

You're probably going to call me a know-it-all, but I just had a feeling that you were headed straight for that most classic of football blog finishes:

"Unless you have walked a sideline or strapped a chinstrap, you really know nothing about the game."

And, you'll probably call me damn smart, but I just know that you've learned a whole lot in your life simply by observing. And, that this distance learning allowed you to form some pretty valid opinions, all without any firsthand experience at all. Did you ever, say, study history? Have a conversation about politics? You've done it, fess up.

And, just to be certain, I double checked; this is indeed the comment section of a blog about football. What would you have us do here... beyond having the site screen for football credentials before allowing posts?
Eamus Irish | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 1:26 am | #

I just want to win.
Chris | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 1:54 am | #

Mr. Wednesday -

Actually, not so much that any more time is needed, but the right 'chefs' to handle and prepare the ingredients.

A HC, for the past 15-20 years, is the CEO of a $20-50M corporation. You have to be able to oversee every aspect of the enterprise, p[lan, and have the right people in place (coaching).

Another "elephant in the parlor" topic - what happens when JC's ACL gets ripped up versus Purdue? Another example of how well we have been managing our assets?

The UConns of the world (and there are quite a few of them) are making major strides on/past us.

Who'da thunk it!

Go Irish
Bill H. | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 7:30 am | #

I wonder if readers here have noticed that some of the more outlandish and over-the-top comments written by a few of you have popped up on other websites as proof that ND fans are largely giving up on Charlie. Now, I know most of you haven't abandoned all hope and were just venting during a game, but keep in mind that what you write here on occasion winds up in the inbox of ND recruits from rival coaches.

I'm not telling you to only post happy, wonderful thoughts. Intelligent criticism is entirely appropriate and always welcome here. And I think you'll note that we have not censored any criticism as long as it didn't cross the line and get personal.

But I would caution you to consider that your words have a longer shelf life and much wider audience than you might think. This isn't your average sports bar where your rants and emotional venting disappear into the ether right after leaving your mouth.

I will say that, personally, I've been impressed with the mature and interesting comments from the vast majority of everyone here. I've seen many a message board turn ugly in a hurry after a bad loss or during a bad season and for the most part that hasn't happened here. So thank you for that.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 8:02 am | #

I agree with you Jay. Excellent post.
Ted | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 8:34 am | #

Well. I sure hope Pete, Jay, and the rest of you are right, as I would love to come back and eat crow in 2008-2009. Once upon a time, I used to make foolish boasts here that CW's coaching "genius" was as good as spotting us a 3 TD lead against the LLLLLoyds and Wilford Brimleys of the CFB world. I sheepishly remember taunting my tOSU friends that we'd drop 40 on them since CW had a full month to gameplan.

What a difference 2 years of Willingham-esque blowouts and emotionless play makes. I'm starting to think my cranky 80 year old dad has it right when he says Weis is "all blow and no show". I will always believe CW's an offensive mastermind and a decent recruiter. Although even there, alot of Weis-backers are ignoring the mediocre-at-best defensive recruiting before CB arrived. Besides the 2005 USC game, name one game a CW-coached team played with the emotion and fire that Lou's teams did. And no, last year's gifts from Sparty and UCLA don't count, as they were the sole result of coaching incompetence and BQ bailing us out. Besides the 2005 USC game, name one big game where our gameplan blew your mind (in a good way). I can't even begin to enumerate all the big games with Lou, where he'd throw in some little wrinkle that always seemed to work. I don't know. I don't think anyone can honestly say he's a better-than-average college head coach (emphasis on college and head) at this point. At first, I found his tacky superbowl rings and his gratuitous NFL references in his pressers to be amusing. Now they annoy the hell out of me. I sure hope he figures it out that his NFL successes have little bearing (save for recruiting) on winning at the college level.
scott | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 8:34 am | #

Quit defending Charlie and admit he did a terrible job. He needs to adapt his coaching style to the college game. I still love the guy, and he built some equity in his first two years, but I'm not going to defend the job he's done this year.
Gavigan | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 8:57 am | #

Love the cartoon: Bad Notre Dame Jesus!

Instead of "F _ _ _!" - "Oh Lord, why have you forsaken me."
ThE LoSt BoY | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 9:03 am | #

3 straight blowout games? How about 5.
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 11:22 am | #

Bill H.:

Did you know that Ms. Cheryl Burke is dating Joey Lawrence's brother?

Woah!
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 11:31 am | #

Please....CW has the BEST 3-year recruiting record as compared to anyone in the nation...Pete Carroll included.
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 11:36 am | #

Jay,

I have to disagree. Regardless of Charlie's strategy to "gamble" to win now, the team still needs to be able to block and tackle in any scenario. This team does neither particularly well.
Irish 83 | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 11:56 am | #

somebody has to say it...

charlie has to go
leftend | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 11:58 am | #

It's a romantic picture of Weis, but I think quite wrong. ND is a bad, bad team right now. We aren't a bad team just because of scheme or because Weis wanted to win now. We are a bad team because we have lots of individual players who can't block and tackle. Nobody can win with a team like that.

I don't see any way around the idea that Weis really misjudged this team, or maybe young players in general. You win maybe 1 or 2 games a year by scheme in college. You win the rest by being better football players. Weis and staff so far have done a poor job of developing good young athletes into great young football players.

I hope Weis and the staff are good enough to change that, but until I see individual players developing and becoming much better it will have to remain a hope.
pete | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 12:05 pm | #

Doug
Not to belabor the point but I am sure there are a number of former players who contribute to this blog but whether one has played or not has little impact if one is an objective observer of what is going on. I might also point out that Charlie never played the game but I still think he can be a fine head coach at ND...he just isn't one now.

A couple of things have happen, however. He MUST hold on to this recruiting class. He MUST maintain and keep a high level of assistants (we will probable lose Mike Haywood this year or next). He must fill in some gaps in the coaching expertise and as everyone seems to recognize, an attitude adjustment is required. I think he will accomplish all these things and may I humbly suggest that he begin with losing that God-awful Super Bowl bling. He hasn't won anything lately and everyone knows it...especially the kids.
domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 12:18 pm | #

Do you think wilingham's recruitment "success" of the current 5th year seniors, seniors, juniors (or lack thereof) has anything to do with this 0-4? Do you think??
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 12:22 pm | #

I thought some stats may help clarify some of the points made in this well written piece (specifically that being aggressive lead to late "run ups" but the other team). I have included some score differentials based on our last 7 "blowouts" (Mich, USC, LSU last year, and all 4 this year). I'll let others comment and draw their own conclusions.

Opponent second half points: 13, 23, 20, 17, 17, 7, 14

Opponent 4th quarter points: 7, 16, 7, 14, 7, 0, 0

Opponent Points after being up 14+ (when):
MI1 20 (11:27 2nd)
USC 30 (5:16 1st)
LSU 7 (0:18 3rd)
GTech 17 (2:44 2nd)
PSU 7 (4:47 3rd)]
MI2 21 (14:39 2nd)
MSU 0 (NA)

What score would have been had they called it when other team was up 14:
LSU 34 - 14
GTech 19 - 0
PSU 24 -10
MI2 17 - 0
MSU 31 - 14
convertedirish | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 1:27 pm | #

Jim from Redondo Beach: Charile has a better 3 year recruiting record than Pete Carroll? That is just wrong. Wishing it were so does not make it so. Or are you counting the 2008-2009-2010 classes or something?

The orginal article goes to great lengths to justify Charlie. But Occam's Razor would suggest we consider the obvious solution. Any team that gets blown out for 6 games in a row has a sub-par coach.
footbawfan | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 5:18 pm | #

Of course I'm counting 2008..
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 6:51 pm | #

Domerplayer, I agree with you 100 persent about Charlie losing the ring. We live in a what have you done for me lately society. The Super Bowl rings were impressive the first year. He needs to save this class no doubt. He still has a chance to build a great future with these kids, this will be the real test of his mettle and his real worth as a coach.
Doug | Email | Homepage | 09.27.07 - 7:22 pm | #

Joe Subway -

Thanks for the 411 on Ms. Burke and the soon-to-be "unfortunate" Lawrence sib.

Go Irish
Bill H. | Email | Homepage | 09.28.07 - 12:04 am | #

One problem there Jim, check the calendar, it is still 2007.

It is a looong time till LOI day in Feb.. And considering that the recruiting services had USC ahead of Notre Dame for the last two recruiting classes, your claim is absurd.

Not to mention all the recent departures from the current Sophomore class.
footbawfan | Email | Homepage | 09.28.07 - 3:31 pm | #

You sound like Willingham's minions at UW, footbawfan. He's/they're stuck at #42 (Rivals.com) and they keep stating that there's a lot of time. There may be a lot of time...but which would you rather be in September? #1 or #42?
jim / redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 09.28.07 - 7:23 pm | #

"You win maybe 1 or 2 games a year by scheme in college. You win the rest by being better football players."

In college, better football players really help, but you don't win the rest "just" about having better football players. The games are often won by having highly motivated players. Those players and teams win a lot of games they never "should" have won.

Look at all the rivalries where the (sometimes huge) underdogs win. College football games are most often about ***passion***.

Here's one example, from just one day in college football: This Saturday, 6 out of the top 13 teams lost, many of whom were expected to win by large margins. And there were numerous additional upsets as well. Rivalries and passion...


"Weis and staff so far have done a poor job of developing good young athletes into great young football players."

I totally agree. Weis and staff have ALSO failed to really ignite sufficient motivation and passion. There is some there, but there needs to be more, and it has to be sustained.

An example of someone very successful in this area is Lou Holtz. He was/is great at developing people's attitudes, and motivating them to perform beyond whatever they expected of themselves.
GS | Email | Homepage | 09.30.07 - 2:28 am | #