For the record, my buyout is set at an even $2 million.
Pat | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 4:53 pm | #

That is definitely 'stupefying.'
Jay | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 4:56 pm | #

It all happens on Saturday...
JamesinLa | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 4:58 pm | #

Thank you for quoting the man who has argued in front of nearly every judge in the state, oftentimes as a lawyer.
Seattle | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 5:06 pm | #

i would be willing to give CW next year, but it could be just a PR nightmare all summer, preseason, and game by game. he could turn it around, but if not, next year could be beyond ugly. it would make the snowball game and fans look like kids play
belocki | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 5:23 pm | #

This whole Weis thing is like the rubber-necking that happens when a car is pulled over on the highway and there is a cop behind him with the lights on. Everybody drives by slowly hoping beyond hope that there is a guy there getting stunned-gun - the reality is that the guy has a flat tire and cop is just making sure that he does not get hit by some guy on a cell phone. Even though there is nothing there and the cop is waving people on by, traffic is backed up for miles because the drivers just cannot resist.

With Charlie, I hope that he just has a flat tire but the rubber-necking with the press is un-fricken-believable. Greenstein quotes unnamed sources, hacks on the message boards are already preparing their list of successors (1. Rockne, 2. Ara, 3. Holtz, 4. Jesus Christ - provided the buyout can be made by the millions of millionaires who are on the Board of Trustees) and the talking heads on ESPN are telling anybody who will listen that "ND is irrelevant". The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach! Charlie does have shortcomings and the mistakes he has made this year with Haywood, Latina and Polian may ultimately cost him his job. I hope that he can turn it around because the talent is almost now there and he has proven that he can move the ball. So, for now, move on people. There is nothing to be seen here - the guy is just going to have to change his tire (fingers crossed).
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 5:24 pm | #

Never though 2 years ago we would be talking about Weis' job in year 4. If he survives, I would guess Latina would burn for this season. Something needs to change, but I don't know what.

The o-line needs fixed-I wonder who is more responsible. Weis or Latina?
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 5:39 pm | #

man after saturday?
really?
I wouldnt have thought to fire them so quickly. Specially if they havent found someone yet.

Anybody think we can get Chris Petersen?
Mexcian Irish | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 5:47 pm | #

I still can't believe the stupidity of the Board and Jenkins and White in giving him the extension after 7 games. He had already made it clear he loved ND and wanted to stay there, he wasn't going to leave for the NFL. They just got over-excited, and were extremely short sighted.

One more year for Charlie, and if they don't produce, than he's gone (alot of alums going way back who will buck up, no matter how much it costs).
Brian Kelly sure looks like a solid candidate.
S man | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 5:48 pm | #

Think Latina would take the head coaching job?
valpodoc | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 5:52 pm | #

Brain Kelly would be one of the top candidates in my mind.
I think Latina would get fired too.
Mexcian Irish | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 5:55 pm | #

Why is his buyout thought to be so astronomical? When he got the big extension during year 1, do you think he ever entertained in his own mind that he would be fired before the contract was up? I wouldn't think so, thus the rumors of the relatively low figure are what I'm choosing to believe.
Tony Spilotro | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 6:03 pm | #

I do not know the answer to this, but why are so many people high on Kelley for the HC position at our ND? Before Cincy what was his coaching pedigree?

Why not Paul Johnson with a successful stint at Navy and one very good year at Georgia Tech? Why not Patterson at TCU?

Johnson was a success at Navy where academics are a must and they don't accept JUCO transfers and high school age kids out of academies with questionable backgrounds.

Just asking.
tednict | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 6:04 pm | #

It's $27 million. I know people who know.
Sean | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 6:28 pm | #

Does anybody think CW can get a job in the pros after all of this? He may have to go back to coaching NJ high school ball.
Steve | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 6:37 pm | #

I had Paul Johnson on my lists of coachs but he would bring the triple Op. So I X that out. What do you think about Chris Petersen of Boise St?
Mexcian Irish | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 6:44 pm | #

Off topic. I see Quinn is out for the season.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 7:03 pm | #

This is why being a Notre Dame fan is not always great like people think it is. We win we get too much glory like in 05. We lose its everyway. Constantly in our face how bad we are. I love how I turn on ESPN and Notre Dame is the lead story on sportscenter on a Wednesday night. Don't know why but if I was a player I would be so pissed off. I hear anchors saying they hope USC doesn't physically hurt us. Damn I hate USC.

If the players can't get up for this they aren't worth anything.
domer | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 7:04 pm | #

CW brought this on himself. He came in boasting of strategy and offensive genius the likes of which college football has never seen. Well, it turns out the NFL coordinator is just that, a coordinator. We have all learned an important lesson here....a lot more goes into coaching than Xs and Os, especially when dealing with college kids. Unfortunately, once again we have been shamed by our coaching choice. No more rationalizations, no more excuses. We have been irrelevant for 15 years now, in terms of performance, and this guy has done nothing to deviate from the trend of Davie and Willingham.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 7:10 pm | #

Here is how bad it is. We are discussing how we should wait another year to fire him. No discussion about how the team is improving, no discussion about how the team is playing like a team. No discussion about how the players are leaving their heart on the field. The whole discussion is about how we hope any of the players will be able to walk without help on Sunday and how it will cost a ton to send this gasbag packing. I only hope that this fine specimen of a human being has enough balls to honor the word he gave, admit that he is not a good enough job.

What I expect is that he will shift the blame on to everyone else, make excuses for himself and fire every assistant coach. Then next year we live through a season of 5-7 with no visible improvement and the gasbag will be fired taking a sackload of money with him.

Why not just end it now and move on?
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 7:28 pm | #

All this commentary about Weis' contract and buyout figures is somewhat laughable and incredibly speculative. Without a review of the contract, it is virtually impossible to know much about it. For example, is there in fact a buyout? Is it totally unconditional? Is it a lump sum or a structured payment? If you wish to speculate do so about this--in all likelihood, the contract was negotiated with the input of Barnes and Thornburg, the largest and considered by many to be the best law firm in Indiana and ND's chief outside counsel. I have had extensive dealings with the firm. While ND may have thrown caution to the windand gave CW whatever it wanted, it did so against the advice of Barnes & Thornburg.
esquire | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 7:38 pm | #

ND's endowment was just under $6 Billion as of 2007. Do you really think $1 Million or $20 Million matters?
Domer96 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 7:47 pm | #

Yes it does matter. The endowment is not there to pay out 'go away' money to bad football coaches.

That's what boosters are for!
Pat Hobby | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 7:49 pm | #

Domer96

In a word --YES!!
pangborn77 | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 7:50 pm | #

The impression I'm getting from ND fans willing to give CW another year is that ND has to beat USC on Saturday and win a respectable bowl game, and then CW will need to show demonstrable progress next year (9-3 or 10-2). If not, he's gone then. Seems to me that the requirements are getting pretty tough for CW to succeed in South Bend. Therefore, it may be better to make the decision now rather than delay the inevitable.

All I can say is, hang in there. We suffered through the Paul Hackett years, and appeared directionless even after that. Fortunately the stars aligned properly and Pete Carroll (#3 or #4 on hiring list) became our HC. Now, I along with many other Trojan fans would follow Carroll and his Trojans into a burning building. My point simply being that the road back to the top is not quick or easily identifiable, but when you find your leader, you'll know.

Fight On!
WeAreSC | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 8:11 pm | #

Esquire,
Your choice of words, "laughable" and "speculative", is dead on. Your application of them, however, is not directed at the appropriate parties.
What is laughable is that whatever the buyout is, it will be more than what this guy is worth to begin with.
What was speculative, was to give this lug such a ridiculous contract, ASSUMING he was the savior of Notre Dame.
We the fans of ND have had no control over the horrible mismanagement of our football program over the past 15 years, nor do we have much of a say going forward.... Direct your criticism to the AD, the true culprit here, not us fans who have suffered through the fall of our program. With the absence of W's and progress, we can at least entertain ourselves and stay engaged through speculation and heresay. It's not laughable....it's sad.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 8:22 pm | #

Weis has not honored his part of the contract. He's costing ND a lot of money with his lack of coaching excellence.
Go Big Gold | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 8:24 pm | #

Maybe Weis and Faust have more in common than anyone thought. Good recruiters with no head coaching experience, who lose games in painful fashion (how many times did Gerry go down to AF? He also had some close calls versus Navy).

I am guessing the final score will be:

USC 58
ND 7

(The final score of Faust's last game vs. Miami, a game Lou Holtz actually mentioned this week)
jeff | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 8:37 pm | #

To those who are upset with the critique of ND football in every major news and tv media.
There is a simple reason. Notre Dame is America's team. Always has been, always will be. It is not a provincial university with a provincial following.
It's the reason I post the articles from around the nation.
I enjoy the visitors who come on from opposing site. We should make them feel welcomed.
But "We are $C" you are revelant only in Socal. Really & truly.
So here's another Weiss in the NY Daily News.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs...an-end- for.html
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 8:42 pm | #

Jim,

Since this is an ND, and not a USC, football blog, I'll spare everyone a silly debate on what makes one teams program "relevant," but I do politely disagree with you.

Fight On!
WeAreSC | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 8:46 pm | #

WeAre$C; Thanks kido! Have a good TG.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 9:33 pm | #

what is the gas bags base salary?
sean keegan | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 9:37 pm | #

Rivals; Corwin Brown. I like him.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/video/co...-being-nd- 41777
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 9:38 pm | #

WeAreSC, that's a good turn of phrase, that the road back to the top is not quick or easily identifiable. My guess is that you and other Trojan fans were not sold on Carroll at first.

ND fans like to point to Willingham's recruiting as reason enough for his early dismissal. I disagree because (1) Weis showed that those recruits could play well enough to reach two BCS games, (2) the real recruiting debacle was the uncertainty surrounding the head coach, and (3) Urban Meyer was allegedly available and interested.

If there were a "messiah coach" out there right now, Weis should be worried. That does not appear to be the case.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 10:30 pm | #

I like this thread much better than the last one. Fewer delusional fans defending the indefensible. I guess some folks still don't realize that CW has beaten exactly 1 top 25 team in 4 years (Ty doubled that in 2004, and against higher ranked teams to boot). Or that CW still has not produced a team that improves noticeably over the course of a season. I guess the 5th time's the charm, eh?
scott | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 11:09 pm | #

JD:
The AD shoulders some but not all of the blame--the Board of Trustees is the ultimate decision maker, especially with firings.

Right now the ND haters in the media are having a field day and many of us bloggers are adding fuel to the fire, either rightly or wrongly. ND was accused of being racist when it fired TW (where are all the cries about UW being racist?)and now that Weis' record is what it is, ND haters are raising the same baseless allegation. Much of tomorrow's night's broadcast will be spent by the biased announcers on ABC (which owns ESPN) talking about Weis. Heck, maybe they will bring back Keith (I hate ND) Jackson. Thank God for the mute button.

Do you all agree that what Weis inherited was the same as what Faust, Davie and TW inherited? If you do, then Weis should be fired. If you do not, perhaps the cries for Brian Kelly or anyone else are premature.
esquire | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 11:15 pm | #

"Or that CW still has not produced a team that improves noticeably over the course of a season."

Oh they improve noticeably over the course of the season. It's just that it's improvement in the negative direction.
Matt J | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 11:25 pm | #

Scott:
How many BCS bowls did Ty take ND to? If he was permitted to stay, what BCS bowls would he have taken ND to in 2005-06 and 2006-07? Do you think CW is as bad a coach as Ty?
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 11:26 pm | #

Lou Holtz and Pete Carroll were miserable NFL coaches, but great in the college ranks. Lane Kiffin, former SC Golden Boy was a flop in the NFL as well. Bobby Petrino. Nick Saban. Dennis Green. Paul Pasqualoni was run out of Syracuse on a rail and has now been a successful NFL coach since 2005. The Chest was likewise booted at NC State and now is back at FSU as an assistant.

The moral of the story is that some football coaches are good at certain levels in certain roles, but not others. Perhaps Charlie Weis is one of them.
c-stone | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 11:36 pm | #

"I do not know the answer to this, but why are so many people high on Kelley for the HC position at our ND? Before Cincy what was his coaching pedigree?"

Tednict, Wikipedia is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bri...n_Kelly_(coach)

Solid record at Grand Valley State, including 3 NC's. Took Central Michigan from MAC dormat to conference champ. 10-3 in first season at Cinci, probable Big East Champs and BCS berth this year. So to answer your question, his pedigree is that he's consistently won at every level he's played at, and has shown he can step up in class and win as well. And don't belittle the time at GVSU--remember that Tressel came from Youngstown St.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 11:52 pm | #

Weis deserves chump change and the directions to the Indiana Toll Road. He's costing our University more than money. He costing us our pride.
Rojo | Email | Homepage | 11.26.08 - 11:54 pm | #

Anonymous:
What have been Kelly's graduation rates?
rockne | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:17 am | #

Rojo, I agree to a point, but our pride was lost when Holtz was escorted out. Kirk Herbstreit pointed out that we have averaged 7 wins over the last 14 years. When Malloy and Wadsworth unceremoniously let Lou go that is when our pride left. Lou could still be the coach or at worst the program would have been turned over to another like Meyer. The administration gets no pass on the state of Notre Dame football. We blame Weis, Willingham, Davie but who hired these guys? Who fumbled the O'Leary debacle? Willingham was not first choice, neither was Weis. I still find it hard to believe that after four years Weis still thinks that he is bigger than ND, he thought so as a student and that seems to have not changed. From what I have read about Swarbrick he is a sensible and rational man who doesnt make quick and misguided decisions. I dont believe he will fire Weis, this year. My plea to CW, put yourself on the hot seat, tell the powers to be that if you dont win a minimum nine games next year in the regular season that you will step down. Put a little pressure on yourself. If Weis isnt big enough to do that, then that should be the mandate from Swarbrick. That will do one of two things, either Weis will do his damndest to live up to the expectations or he will quit.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:33 am | #

Mecheng,

Statistically speaking Ty was a better ND head coach than CW. Ty beat more ranked teams, more teams with winning records, and Ty did that in 3 years not 4. Secondly, Charlie has set Notre Dame records for 1st 9 loss season in school history, worst home blow-out in school history, worst home loss to USC in history, first loss to Navy in 43 years, first loss to an 8-loss team, most losses in back-2-back seasons. And much, much less.
Sandy Underpants | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:52 am | #

DB; Coach O'Leary's cv passed muster at Georgia Tech and the NFL. The NFl?
Don't they use the proverbial fine tooth comb on all?
You need to give the ND Admin. a pass on that.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:53 am | #

Rockne--

The Anonymous who posted about Kelly was me--my browser dumped my name. Anyways, don't know his grad rates--wikipedia doesn't get into that detail. I simply answered Tednict's question. However I'm sure Swarbrick can find that out.
Nate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 6:46 am | #

Dudes, dudes DUDES!
Stay the course for a few more days.
The task at hand, forget the coach it's SC, visually (uniforms, bands, colors, spectacle) the best football game on the planet, traditionally the two best teams in college football. As a lad, I wanted to go to ND after watching them beat Troy in the late 60's. The ghost of AD Davis appears as #23 in an Irish uniform. Stay positive, Stay delusional, it's our season. Final ND 36 USC 18 in a very weird game.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 8:08 am | #

CW offense excells around a two tight end formation. If you look at the strugles we do not have a good blocking tight end that can also catch the ball. Therefore the run/pass threat from the TE is mute and has been all year.

As dissappointed as I am with the coaching staff let's look at who is missing.

1) Walls
2) Smith, Brian
3) Floydd
4) Ragone
5) Yeatman
6) Lambert (last two games)
7) Stewart
8) Schmidt,Luke

These guys plus the redshirts add up to a whole recruting class. CW isn't going to use excuses but is it possible that the depth from TY just hasn't caught up?

Look at how close they were to winning all these games. They need to win a close game from behind and feel like they can on a regular basis. I thought it would have been Pitt but it wasn't.

I don't think anyone will disagree that this must be tearing CW apart and probally is killing his health. I think with the leg he is in much more pain than he shows and I am dissappointed that the team has rallied around his effort.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:37 am | #

If we get blown-out Saturday night in LA, Swarbrick's hands are tied, he has to make a change. The upheaval that results in making a coaching change this year will pale in comparison to the PR nightmare that will be a result in NOT making a switch. The press will revive the whole Willingham affair, for sure,if Charlie is allowed to continue after such a poor record.
DomeSweetDome | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:27 am | #

Sandy Underpants:
Thank you for your response. You are saying in no uncertain terms that Ty is a better coach than CW. Who else agrees??
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:32 am | #

An FYI--Swarbrick does not have the sole authority to fire Weis. If the buyout (assuming there is one) is as high as the know-it-alls claim, the Board will have the final say. The Board in all likelihood will not let CW go.
rockne | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:37 am | #

ty did more (or the same) with less talent. that is indisputable.

and why would anyone compare the UW record to the ND record? TW was a ~ .600 coach going to bowl games at ND.... he's about to go 0-12 (yes, ZERO and TWELVE) with a loss to 1-11 Wazzu (and that 1 was a 1-AA team). let that stir in your noodles a bit. 0-12 with a loss to the wost WSU team in many years.
DanK | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:59 am | #

Dank:
Great post and this was in Ty's 4th year at UW!! Where are all the cries of racism now??
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 11:05 am | #

Who really cares about what Ty Willingham is doing? Yes he was a horrible coach, lazy, but he is a pretty decent golfer, or so I've read. If Charlie Weis gets fired this year the ND football program will be in complete and utter disarray. I have posted this several times and post it again, if he is fired what coach worth anything would come to ND. Two BCS berths in four years isn't good enough. If you don't win a NC in your four years you will be gone. Yes the team has gotten beat by lesser teams, but USC does it every year. 2006 UCLA, 2007 Stanford, 2008 Oregon State. Actually I believe OSU has beaten USC three of the last four years. Has Charlie Weis made mistakes? Yes way too many to print, but you can't fire a coach every three to four years because he doesn't take you to a National Championship. Should ND lose to Navy or Syracuse? No way, but this is college football and the best team doesn't win every Saturday.
For those who say that Charlie has only beaten one top 25 team I will disagree. ND beat #24 Pitt opening night 2005 and #3 Michigan the following week, both on the road.
Jerry | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 11:35 am | #

Jerry-What has Weis done for us lately?

It was right before my time, but I have heard that even Devine was being pushed out before his retirement. It comes with the territory next to the two lakes.
Rojo | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:02 pm | #

Gerry Faust also comes with the territory...cough, cough, cough.
Blues Explosion | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:07 pm | #

Devine 1979's 7-4 record against a killer schedule is a galaxy away from the black hole coaching of Weis the last two years.
Bob Crable Rules | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:17 pm | #

Since we're all just throwing out unfounded guesses, here's my list of replacements, should Weis get the hook in '08 or '09.

In no order:

-Bill Cowher
-Urban Meyer
-Jimmy Johnson
-Pete Carroll (in a bizarre twist!)
-Paul Johnson
-Gary Patterson
-Butch Davis
NDdallas | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:17 pm | #

Thanks for the Phil Hartman reference. It made my day.
Joe Subway | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:17 pm | #

No Jimmy Johnson (aka pig-faced satan), but Pete Carroll would be Christmas everyday.
Bob Crable Rules | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 12:20 pm | #

NDdallas,

Just back away from the computer...and never mention Pete Carroll leaving USC again...

Lane Kiffin and Ed Orgeron may be headed to Tennessee. Ed O is a huge grab for whoever hires him. Great coach, players love him and awesome recruiter. I'd actually have an SEC team to root for (or maybe just not dislike) if Tennessee hired Kiffin/Orgeron. Still, I'm not sold on Kiffin being HC anywhere. I question how much of his success was the talent he had to work with and Norm Chow. The same goes for Sarkisian.
WeAreSC | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 1:25 pm | #

Everybody talks of the two BCS years as if they were some kind of validation of the program or CW's coaching. Yes, it was better back then than now....but let's be fair. We beat crappy to average teams at best to get into those bowls, where we were subsequently exposed in those bowl games. We gave this guy a mega contract on what basis really. One game that we almost won against a great USC team. That about sums it up. The highpoint of the CW era was a close loss against our rival in a great game.
If you think he deserves more time and can be a successful coach, that's fine. If you believe we need some stability and consistency to build the program back up and we should deal with Charlie's leraning curve and growing pains, fine. But don't justify or rationalize what he has done so far as successful...or even marginally successful because of the two BCS games. They were both disasters as I recall, in which we were exposed, and the media bashed ND.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 1:32 pm | #

The problem is: we live in a get it now society. I'd love a NC anytime soon, but with that said, charlie is trying to fill the empty cuboard left by the last coach. There was minimal debth when he arrived and there was non last year. In NCAA basketball you can rebuild a team in a year with a good recruiting year. You only need 5 good players. Football takes a lot more time due to the bodies on the field. If you look at the top teams they have debth and there is competition at most of the skilled positions. Losing sucks, I hate it, we all hate it. Hopefully Weis can continue to recruit debth in this program so it is like USC who does have debth. The team has improved this year despite everyone picking apart every aspect of their game. This is still a young team. Lou Holtz has even publically commented on that this young team has improved.

Last year we allowed a record 58 sacks,yes 58 times of watching our QB get hit, this year 14 so far. Improvement yes. Hopefully the OL will improve the run blocking for next season.
The defence has been playing better (pending some melt downs). I'm sure that there are many other areas in which this team has improved.

It sucks on how this season has gone, the game could have went either way in more than a couple of those losses.

If Weis still sucks in 2 years time we'll have to get a big name college coach that is good at recruiting and has the experiance to boot.

Maybe a crapy bowl gmae with a win will help this team continue to build a good foundation.
Beer for me, Beer for you, Che | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 1:39 pm | #

I have heard rumors from credible sources that Charlies ten year contract was five years and a series of one year contracts. If so his buy out would be on years salary. This seems to square with the loose change comment. Let's see what happens after the USC game. Tough feilding questions after a huge beat down. I wouldn't be suprised if Charlie just made a statement and got out.
valpodoc | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 2:21 pm | #

It's a miracle....I was just on espn.com and there was no mention of the Irish or Charlie or snowballs. I'm going to refresh the page just to make sure I wasn't missing something. Pathetic.
VicPaul | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 2:34 pm | #

...the latest over/under for the SC game is 47...as SC is fully capable of scoring 50 easily...that must mean the betters are projecting zero (0) points from ND...jeeze...and I spent $500 for tickets in the SC section...what a fun way to spend a Saturday afternoon/evening...
jim/redondo beach | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 2:40 pm | #

Fire the fat gas bag.
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 3:10 pm | #

Beer, you could NOT BE MORE WRONG. Charlie Weis MUST BE FIRED NOW! Here is the proof:

I took a look at 4 schools that have had great winning traditions in college football, feel on hard (some very hard like ND's over the last 15 years) and have truly returned to glory. Those teams currently occupy spots 2-5 in the BCS: Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, and USC. Let me give you those schools records and winning %s in the 4 years previous to the their current coaches and their records in the first 4 years with their current coaches:

Texas: 30-19-1 (.600) in 4 years pre-Mack Brown; 38-13 with win against A&M(.745) in first four years with Mack. Won 9,9,9, and 11 in his first 4 years (NC in year 8)

Oklahoma: 17-27-1 (.378) in 4 years pre-Bob Stoops; 43-9, assuming he wins Saturday against Okla. St.(.827) in Stoops' first 4 years. Won 7,13,11, and 12 and NC in Year 2.

Florida: 33-17 (.660) in 4 years pre-Urban Meyer, 42-9 after beating FSU (.824). Won 9,13,9 and will have number 11 Saturday. NC in Year 2.

USC: 25-23 (.521) in 4 years pre-Pete Carroll; 42-9 after beating ND and UCLA. Won 6,11,12,13 and at least part of NC in Years 3 and 4.

So it DOES NOT TAKE THAT LONG FOR THE TRULY GREAT COACHES WHICH WEIS CLEARLY IS NOT! Weis will be 28-21 after the beating at the hands of 'SC on Saturday (.571) vs. 26-22 (.542) in the 4 years previous to his hire.

Oh and what about Lou: ND was 35-20-1 (.543) in the 4 years before he got there while Lou was 37-11 in his first 4 years with seasons of 5,8,12, and 12 wins and the NC in his 3rd year.

CASE CLOSED; FIRE WEIS!!!
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 3:59 pm | #

I meant, "fell on hard times". Jeez, I need to start drinking more today.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 4:02 pm | #

Irishrat, I've already started drinking for Saturday's game....I think we're all going to need a few.
VicPaul | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 4:49 pm | #

Jerry

ND has not even been close to a NC since Weis has been here. I would be happy if they were competitive. With the talent they have, they should vie for a NC now.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 5:10 pm | #

Actually, they should be in a BCS game with a 10-2 record this year with this talent.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 5:12 pm | #

Masterson, what the F is your problem?
Nate | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 5:28 pm | #

Coach Knute; IT DOES NOT COMPUTE!!!!
Brhahahahahahahaha.
Instructions for rousing Nate:
1) Reach up with either arm.
2) Grasp pulley with either hand.
3) YANK.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 6:01 pm | #

In the last 6 years, there are only 6 schools that have major football programs that have averaged less than 3.3 losses/season--USC, Ohio State, Georgia, LSU, Texas and Oklahoma (if you do not count forfeited games). Which of these schools and which coaches at these should ND emulate/ try to hire?
pangborn77 | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 6:27 pm | #

Nice point Pangborn- I'd say Stoops; I have no idea if he graduates his players, but he's been damn successful and he seems to be a good guy.

Tressel, Carroll, and Miles are all tools in my mind. I don't know enough about Richt or Brown.

So since the first two games sucked today, I've had a little time to do some research on college football champions. Looking at the history of college football champs makes me feel a little better that ND still can turn it around before we're in a box. Here are the number of years between the top 5 teams in the BCS and their last championships as well as their last one before that.

Alambama: Last won in 16 years ago in 1992; before that it was 1979

Texas: last won in 3 years ago, but before that it had been 36 years (1969)

Oklahama: Last won 8 years ago in 2000 and before that it was 1985

Florida: Last won 2 years ago in 2006 and before that 1996 (before that, the Gators had never won a championship

USC: Last won in 2004 (and 2003), but before that, it had 35 years since the the Trojans had a piece of the NC (1978)

A couple other of note are that tOSU had not won since '68 before their win in 2002 (which to my grave I'll contend was because of the worst pass interference call EVER) and before LSU won in 2003, it had been 45 YEARS (1958) for the Tigers. Finally, before Michigan won it in 1997 it had been ALMOST 50 YEARS SINCE SKUNKBEAR U had won one in 1948 (once again, a reminder of what an over-rated blowhard Schembechler was).

My point is that yeah it sucks to have the feeling we're all feeling but the fans of some of these other historically top-notch programs have felt the same thing for long stretches. 20 years is enough. With the talent we have in the freshman and sophomore classes and the talent coming in next year, a true COLLEGE football coach could possibly get us to a NC very quickly.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 6:53 pm | #

Stoops graduation rate immediately disqualifies him.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 7:03 pm | #

"For those who say that Charlie has only beaten one top 25 team I will disagree. ND beat #24 Pitt opening night 2005 and #3 Michigan the following week, both on the road."

Pitt's final record in 2005: 5-6
Michigan's final record in 2005: 7-5

hindsight is 20-20.
Schultz | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 8:27 pm | #

Who is the college coach who will get us to the NC very quickly?
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 8:32 pm | #

Irish Rat's statements on the # of seasons between championships reminded me of some work I did on that very topic this past spring, researching gaps between titles.

Bleacher Report article here

College football is cyclical. You just have to have the right coach to lead you out of the drought.
NDdallas | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 8:51 pm | #

It Could Be Worse!
MATT MILLEN. Brhahahahahahahaha.
From the Ford Family!
Ya know they gave America the Edsel.
No money for you!
You're way to stupid.
They hired Millen, 'cause he sounded like an expert on the FOX pre-game & post-game show.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:06 pm | #

Well mecheng, I won't profess to have the answer, but I'll try.

My list included one name mentioned here a couple times, Brian Kelley. Anonymous, I think you made some great points aobut him.

Here's something I sent to some buddies after the Syracuse debacle:

a) The guy MUST be a college head coach in D1 currently (or have been a head coach in D1), b) have a winning track record, c) be a good guy (or at least not obviously be a tool like Saban or Petrino), and d) someone that THEORETICALLY could come to ND (e.g. Paterno, Bowden, Poodle, etc. are not candidates) This is unscientific/un-researched at this point but just a quick list of possibilities with a quick comment:

• Mike Stoops- Arizona: Brother Bob turned around an Oklahoma team that was horrible in the early to mid-90s and returned them to national prominence. Having been on that staff certainly taught him how to turn things around (not to mention he’ll be on the phone constantly with big brother). Hasn’t done a lot at Arizona, but it’s hard to do a lot when USC is in your conference and you’re at a basketball school
• Brady Hoke-Ball State: I don’t know anything about him, but getting Ball St. to 11-0 is impressive
• Chris Petersen- Boise State: Young guy, energetic, and part of the staff that took down OU in the Fiesta a couple years ago. If he can get good players to go to Boise, ID he should be able to get great players to come to ND. Runs an offense that is hard to defend and is fearless
• Bronco Mendenhall- BYU: Cougars have been good since he’s been there, but I don’t know anything about him
• Brian Kelley-Cincinnati: Top 20 team, program hasn’t missed a beat since Dantonio left
• Randy Edsall- UConn: Built a program out of nothing into one that’s been in and close to the Top 25 since beginning Big East play
• Gary Pinkel- Missouri: This program was a joke until he got there; now they’re in the Top 15 the last couple years
• Pat Fitzegerald-Northwestern: Good, young coach, energetic, gets/loves college football. Got NORTHWESTERN to 9 wins this year. Probably would never leave NU, his alma mater
• Frank Solich- great record at Nebraska and got screwed (think they regret Bill What-his-face from the Raiders?) but seemed a bit conservative
• Chuck Long- San Diego State: See Fitzerald apart from the alma mater
• Jim Leavitt- South Florida- See Edsall above. Might be a bit old to come to ND
• Jim Harbaugh- Stanford: See Long; knows the significance of rivalries with Michigan and USC (already has a nice chipiness with Carroll). If he could beat ‘SC as 40-point underdogs AT THE COLLISEUM, what could he do with better talent at ND? I know McD; but the guy looks to be a MUCH better coach than NFL QB
• Gary Patterson-TCU: Has consistently had this program in the Top 25 (sorry Teddy)
• Jimmy Johnson (former Miami coach): Yes, it’d be a deal with the devil, but sometimes that’s what it takes (I actually had the thought that I wish he were our coach when we had the chance to pound Navy into submission before almost giving that one away).

Of the names I know on this list, I’d say my top ones would be Leavitt, Harbaugh, Pinkel, and Petersen. Again, this is pure fantasy because Fat Boy isn’t going anywhere. I’m sure those of you that know more could quickly debunk some on this list, but it’s a start.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:07 pm | #

Guys,

I think this is what has to be done. We have to approach Meyer before dumping Weis and see if he is ready to jump ship at Florida. I really honestly think that he wants to end up at ND. My bitterness toward him is over for not taking the job in '04, plus if you believe our freaking administration, we never even offered him the job anyway. If you read this article it makes sense why he went to Florida - at that time. If he wins again there, certainly nothing is left for him to accomplish.

Notre Dame needs to do all they can to hire this man. No one is more qualified or more needed than Urban. Read the article. Charlie, for all he cares about the university, sucks as a head coach. It is as simple as that. No ifs, ands, or buts, he sucks. He just doesn't know the college game, and he doesn't relate to the players in the way that is needed to motivate a college kid to play his ass off. Bottom line.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:09 pm | #

http://www.floridatoday.com/arti...343/1065/ SPORTS

That's the article I was talking about.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:10 pm | #

NDdallas, thanks for sharing!
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:12 pm | #

Hiring Meyer at ND is ridiculous. The guy is a scumbag. While widely reported that he turned down ND, ND actually refused the conditions Meyer demanded re academics. WhAat has changed? Get real!!
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:13 pm | #

NATE, I don't know if you will read this, but many thanks for your response to my question. It would certainly seem that Kelley has the credentials.
tednict | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:26 pm | #

mecheng,

It's time for ND fans like you to pull your heads out of your butt. I want to win, I want to win big, I want to win every game, and I want to compete for a national title every game. To say that we should not hire an Urban is like saying you prefer mediocrity.

You say Urban is a dirtbag... Why? Charlie does the same thing in recruiting that Urban does. Don't even try to defend Charlie. The man is lost in his own genius.

And where the hell do you pull this "Urban demanded standards be lower" BS? Florida had him in '04, we never even offered him the job according to our administration. Plus, even if he does, if that's what it takes to win, do it. I'm sick and tired of being worse than mediocre.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:33 pm | #

Joe B:

Your problem is just that --you want to win at any cost. Meyer's graduation rate for black athletes is more than 30 points lower than ND's. What are the same things Weis does that Meyer does? Tell us. Where did I pull "the lower academic standards"? Directly from John Jenkins. How? A longtime fiend is a Holy Cross priest whose best friend in the priesthood is Father Jenkins. Meyer wanted at least 6 players a year to be admitted that do not come close to ND's standards. ND said no. Now tell us again why you think this guy is a fit at ND??
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 9:42 pm | #

Thanks for sharing Joe B. I feel like an idiot because a) I did not realize Meyer had been an assistant at ND (I never paid much attention to assistant coaches beyond the OC and DC then) and b) I had NO IDEA he had this kind of love for ND.

I agree with you; mecheng, why do you feel that way? The comment from the article, "For Notre Dame's purposes, Meyer runs a clean program, wins, works like a maniac, is passionate about recruiting, and cares deeply about what kind of men he produces off the football field" seems like a perfect fit for ND. If I thought Meyer was really a possibility, he would not only be on my list he would BE THE LIST. In other words he'd be my top and only candidate.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:01 pm | #

mecheng, I agree with you, I don't want to see black athletes with grad rates that much lower (or low at all). But, I think IF and that is a big IF Meyer came to ND, he would not adversely affect ND's high graduation rates.

I must say, the standards ARE ridiculoius. Chris Zorich and Tony Rice were Prop 48 back in the day and would NEVER get in today. If that were the case then, ND does not win the '88 NC. Both graduated- Rice, if I remember correctly with a degree in Psychology. I don't remember Zorich's degree, but he's now a lawyer if I'm not mistaken.

Kids at the age of 17-18 have different talents; some are musicians, some actors, some engineers, some biologists, and some football players. If a kid can handle the academics (even if it requires some extra help such as tutoring) I'm fine with ND letting him in. BUT he must go to class (this is NOT tOSU), he must work hard, and he must comport himself with class. I think Urban Meyer would bring in kids that would do all of those. Maybe it's just wishful thinking because I want Weis out so bad and someone like Meyer in so bad.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:06 pm | #

Joe B & Nate; No place for you at Yasukuni Shrine.
Hey Rat; Thanks for Sharing!
Thanks for Sharing!
You miss your twelve (12) step program!! Brhahahahahahahaha.
Pull & Yank.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:37 pm | #

Tonight, Notre Dame and Texas are tied for second place on the all-time wins list at 830 (Michigan has 872).

The score in the UT-A&M game is 35-3, Texas. Let's just say Texas finds a way to hang on.

Texas is in second place for all time wins with 831.

Michigan and Notre Dame have been in the top two for all-time wins since 1932.

After tonight's win by UT, the top two changes for the first time since 1932.
NDdallas | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:47 pm | #

Of course, if Notre Dame can average 9+ wins/season over a decade like Texas has, things look different.
NDdallas | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 10:49 pm | #

@ Irish Rat - one quick point re: Harbaugh and the Stanford win in 07: Harbaugh didn't break Booty's finger, nor did he leave him in long enough to have 5 turnovers. That loss for SC was to my thinking so bad not so much because of the margin of victory but because it was due to fundamentally bad coaching in not pulling out an injured quarterback.

I was chatting with a friend who's a Michigan alum and asking if he would agree with the following observation: that Harbaugh is building a Stanford team in the Schembechler mold, with big linemen, a heavy emphasis on the run, and the ability to play half a game. He agreed, and added that even before Harbaugh was ruffling feathers at Michigan, people thought he was a humorless dick.

I think that Notre Dame can do better than Harbaugh as a long term prospect.
DC Trojan | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 11:47 pm | #

Thanks, Irish Rat, for the most comprehensive discussion of coaching replacements I've seen anywhere. Not withstanding DC Trojan's reasonable criticism.

Now, on the other hand, I'm not sure whether I'd take a coach off this list or wait a year for someone with better qualifications to free up (if that ever happens). Definitely some interesting prospects though.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.27.08 - 11:53 pm | #

No Mike Stoops. I went to grad school at U of Arizona after ND.
The guy is what he is which is 6-5 and 5-6.

I'm surprised he has been there so long. Maybe the close games with USC are keeping him in Tucson.
Set of Leroy's Keys | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 1:00 am | #

I have it on Good Authority that the Buyout is 287.5 million (Twinkies, not dollars).

Oh, and Urban Meyer, Lou Holtz, Brian Kelly, Gerry Faust, Flavor Flav, Jesse Palmer and John Gruden all want the job. BADLY.

Swarbrick will spend two weeks being courted by each. When he picks a winner, he'll place a host consecrated by Father Miles O'Toole into his mouth.

And, POOF! Notre Dame will Magically Return to Dominance.

Perfect Season and a Sure National Championship next year. Culminated by a 100-2 thrashing of USC in the Capital One "Student-Athlete" Bowl on ESPN on Mar. 4, 2010.

Oh, and The Economy will be fixed too. And the country will be united as one.

What a joke this all is.

Happy Thanksgiving.
Straight Edge | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 1:39 am | #

ND needs to go back to the Fr. Heshburg speech.....you have 5 years to take the program we think you will have enough athletes to win more than you lose, but if you cheat you are gone by midnight. 5 years, no contract extensions until the 5th year and then only at the length of the original contract. Give the coach every opportunity to win, quit worrying about the image of the university when football success comes as they did with Lou, by tightening admissions and worrying about being a "football factory". We look always at the Urban Meyers, but there are some outstanding coaches in DIAA who would more than likely relish the opportunity to coach at ND. Remember Tressel came from Youngstown St.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 8:23 am | #

The "things" which Charlie does that are exactly what Urban does is a reference to recruiting players committed to other programs. Charlie attempted to rationalize it with some type of, "If they're looking we're looking" statement to make it sound like he was different from all other coaches, but he's not. The only way he's different from other coaches is that he has no idea how to run a college program.

And for everyone that feels Urban wouldn't fit here, why not? He was an assistant under Lou. This is his favorite school in the country. He didn't come here three years ago b/c he wanted to recruit locally and have time with his family. He is a devout Catholic. Who cares if he is a dick coaching wise, at least he wins. Tell me again how he doesn't fit. I mean Weis is a dick and doesn't win. I'd rather be a dick that wins.

And yes, winning is the bottom line, and I am disappointed that there are fans out there who say that mediocrity is better than a win at all cost mentality.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 8:48 am | #

Joe B

The only thing worse than giving up everything to win...is when you give up everything and lose... ie look at Tennessee, Florida State.. admit everyone, disciplinary problems, poor graduation rates..
Winning is important but not at the cost of the integrity of the program. If Charlie has done one thing, it's making folks realize that you can still recruit at ND, still get players, still graduate and have the highest gpa in college football. Notre Dame should never give up on any of that in my opinion. The fact is the next guy, whether it be Meyer or not, doesn't need to ask for 5 or 6 prop 48 types to win at ND. Why not shoot for the top on both ends..
BTW, who won the national championship the last 5 years... bet you most folks couldn't tell you without looking it up. Winning is not what college football is about...too bad that has been lost on the ESPN generation.
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 9:05 am | #

jmc

You actually perfectly complement my point. If indeed, Urban asked for recruiting exceptions, there is no doubt that he and other coaches see that you can recruit at Notre Dame, especially given what Charlie has done in that area.

As for the comparison drawn at FSU and Tennessee, it's not a fair one. Urban's program is actually clean. I recall just one incident with a player lately, which is fewer than Notre Dame even. Florida probably has one of the most admirable players in recent memory in Tim Tebow.

The win at all cost mentality may lead others to judge and say that things like graduation rates and acceptance standards and off the field conduct don't matter to people with that mentality, but to some it does. Urban is not running a program like UT or FSU, he is running one that I would love to see at ND. Unlikely, but I guess we can always hope. It has been 20 years, which we all know is far too long.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 9:25 am | #

jmc,

You actually complement my line of thought, indirectly. The comparison to UT and FSU is illegitimate, b/c Urban's program is much different than that. It's actually clean, in fact as I recall there've been less incidents with UF players than ND players recently.

And yes, Charlie has proven that you can still recruit at ND. This should do nothing but actually show that ND is an attractive job to have.

Even though I want to win at all costs, you can still be solid in other areas as well. Being just 21, that's what I've believed Notre Dame to stand for all my life. It's supposed to be the best of both worlds, and a change needs to be made so we can get there.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 9:29 am | #

I was out of the country this past week, and just learned last night that ND lost to SYRACUSE, of all people. If nothing else, that shouold shut the Weis apologists up, and prove once and for all that he has to go. That fat tub of lard couldn't coach a Pop Warner team. Unless and until notre Dame gets a real coach, with experience, and quits these experiments like Brennan, Faust and Weis, this program will never hope to regain its lost glory.

I am ashamed that a ND team could lose to a Syracuse. This is not progress. Weis is a fraud.

I thought when we got rid of Kuharich in my senior year that ND would wise up. Not true.

No alumni contribution this year. I am ashamed.
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 9:36 am | #

Guys:

Take a moment and let's think with our heads (as well as our hearts).

1. The "win at all cost mentality" is a non-starter at ND and to advocate it is ridiculous.

2. ASSUMING that Weis will be fired, it is critical that a succession plan must be put in place BEFORE the firing. In other words, when the University announces Weis' firing, ND should already know who his successor will be. The University cannot offer a job to someone only to be turned down PUBLICLY. And why does this need to be done before Christmas. In fact, wouldn't it be better to fire after Feb. 1, the national letter of intent day, and allow for a well-thought out succession plan.

3. Look at history--every ND coach between Rockne and Ara was an ND grad. Ara WANTED to be at ND and advised the University of that fact while still at Northwestern. Devine WANTED to be at ND and in fact applied for the job when Ara did. Faust made it clear that he would leave Moeller only if ND offered him the job. Lou WANTED to be at ND and had the escape clause in his contract at Minnesota. It is less clear (at least to me) whether Davie and Ty truly WANTED to be at ND --I am not sure. Charlie WANTED to be at ND.

4. Besides wanting to be at ND, the next coach must be an individual with a track record that proves he can field a highly competitive COLLEGE program without compromising ND's standards. There is a natural inclination to say, "Look at what Carroll, Meyer, Brown, Miles etc. have done" and to want one of these guys. Besides their won-loss records, however, what is the compelling reason to hire one of these guys? The graduation rates, particularly at USC, Ohio State, LSU and Texas, are horrific. Doesn't it need to be about more than won-loss record.

5. Money will be a huge factor. It isn't just a Weis buyout (assuming there is one). Will ND buyout the contract of the replacement if he is not released from his contract? Don't be duped by the size of ND's endowment. Yes, the Board of Trustees wants to win but as stated above, not at all costs.

6. If an alum decides to give or not give to ND solely on the basis of the performance of the football team, he is in sorrier shape than the team itself, partcularly given all the good ND does. Get real.

When all is said and done, ASSUMING Weis will be fired sometime after tomorrow's game, I would like to see the University explore the possibility of hiring Tom Coughlin. If he wins a second Super Bowl, his incentive to stay with the Giants may diminish and the Mara family may consider releasing him. This may be very far-fetched but perhaps no more so than some of the other names raised as a successor.
lush | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 10:22 am | #

Steve Sarkisian anyone? When ND couldn't beat Ara, they hired him. They can't beat USC, so why not hire the Poodle's protege? Young, QB friendly, lots of elite program cred.

anyone see this as a pretty simple pitch?
WaitBSP | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 10:43 am | #

lush:

Why would the Giants release a coach who, in your scenario, just won two Super Bowl titles in a row? And why would Tom Coughlin, of all people, want to coach college players (when up until last year, he found it hard to relate to the grown men on his pro team) and recruit high school players? Sorry, I give you credit for creativity but I seriously doubt both the wisdom and likelihood of that one.

I do wholeheartedly agree that Notre Dame is just not a "win-at-all-costs" type of place. Which is exactly why all of this Urban Meyer talk has to stop.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 10:45 am | #

Rat,
One thing that Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, and USC has that ND doesn't is warm weather.Bikinis for 10 mounths a year. Nice to recruit young men into that environment. In South Bend cold for 6 months.

Lets just get drunk and forget this season ever happened again....#$^king fatman......CW...damn.

I do agree with you on hiring Urban, he would be a good fit. I think it was the money in 04 that made him choose Florida.
Cheers,
Beer for me, Beer for you | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 10:58 am | #

Jade:
Did you forget that Coughlin was a very successful coach at Boston College, where he coached college players who beat ND?

I said getting him may be very far fetched but if he wants to leave, the Maras cannot stop him--it is then all a function of $$, just about like everything else in life.
lush | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:01 am | #

I think most everyone agrees that so far Weis has not done a good job as the ND. The real question is would firing Weis after this season cause more damage than good? At some point, you’ve got to take your medicine and let things play out. The ND coaching position has become a bit of a revolving door. The quick trigger with Willingham (and his first replacement who) makes it harder, not easier, to pull the plug on Weis quickly. I do not think ND has the luxury of putting 2 and 2 together, peering into next season’s hypothetical failure, and firing Weis now. The college football world needs to see that ND will stick with a guy until he fails on his own. Next season is Weis’ year. He’s got an experienced team and a veteran QB. Next season should be a great one. I think public opinion will be behind ND firing Weis if he fails next season. I do not think public opinion is behind firing Weis now.

I don’t get all this Urban Meyer talk. He had a chance to be ND’s coach. He chose Florida. He’s not going to be ND’s coach. Neither is Coughlin.

I think ND’s independent status is part of the problem. The focus on national championships, and little else to shoot for, represents an absurdly high expectation. Other coaches of elite teams can beat their rival, win their conference, go to a BCS bowl, and have a great season with out the crystal football. Do those things and talk about national championships only starts after a long drought and no one is going to fire a coach that wins conference titles/beats the rival but not national championships.
imafreak | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:12 am | #

re: Mike Stoops

What's hurting the PAC 10 schools in Arizona and Washington is that the California players who don't stay in state or go to ND, now gravitate to the Ducks or Beavers. Still, Mike Stoops is a mediocre coach. My top pick would be Urban (ND is about giving people 2nd chances and proving themselves.) and then Brian Kelly as runner up. We need a COLLEGE head coach with experience and a track record of success. As Lou said, "life is not dress rehearsal."
Gold Wave | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:29 am | #

Here's a thought... if we had given Ty 5 years... would we now have Saban?? With no great coach on the horizon..think we should stay the course and bring in a new offensive coordinator with high profile experience.
Charlie's biggest loss was Cutcliffe...if ND had Cutcliffe and Tenuta from the get go things would be quite a bit different.. his decision to go with inexperience on both sides of the ball and no special teams coach have spelled his demise. Tenuta has helped, now we need somebody experienced on the offensive side of college ball to take over.

Any good offensive coordinators out there that would be willing??
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:34 am | #

Losing to Syracuse the week before Thanksgiving, when everyone has more time on their hands than they know what to do with, was an unforgiveable failure. Curse you CW, I am stuck reading the 60th column about rascist ND failing to behead CW immediately and 8,025th post about the merits of Urban Liar and BK (aka Whopper Junior). Happy fucking thanksgiving everybody!
Thundershaker | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:40 am | #

Pretty sure there have been over 20 arrests under Urban at UF, no?

Probably why they are No. 2 in the country too!

Bring Back Lou's Felons!
Straight Edge | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:47 am | #

Look at what Cutcliff has done at Duke. Outstanding!! Why does anyone want a coach whose is commonly referred to "Slick Nick"??
lush | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:49 am | #

lush:

No, I did not forget. Nor did I forget that Coughlin was a college coach 15 years ago. Coughlin strikes me as a grouchy type who does not want to deal with 20-year-olds at this point in his life. If you can imagine him sitting down in a 17-year-old's living room and kissing his ass to try to get him to come to Notre Dame, more power to you. I certainly don't see it.
Jade | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:52 am | #

I ask this hypothetical question and think about this. IF and this is a big if, ND had beaten Pitt and Syracuse, or Pitt and ND, or all three would we still be having these conversations? Now another question, was Weis totally to blame for all of those failures? I am not standing here saying it isnt Weis's coaching that has gotten us here, but if Clausen doesnt throw the pick at NC for a TD, and he makes the throw to Floyd against Pitt, and the OLine makes some blocks on the 5 yard line against Syracuse or even if Maust handles the snap on the field goal, do we still have the same conversation? If we are sitting 8-3 or 9-2 right now, do we still call for Weis's removal? Now, are all the problems on Weis or is there times when the players arent making plays when they should? If you miss a wide open receiver in the end zone, fumble a ball on the 7 yard line, drop a touchdown pass, fail to make a block on 4th and 1, miss a tackle, get beat deep, is that coaching? If Urban Meyer were the coach and those things happened, would he be a lousy coach? I am not saying Weis is without blame, because he isnt, but I just pointed out three plays that would have made us 9-2.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:55 am | #

I meant NC.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:57 am | #

If Weis gets fired then who comes in ? Weis is a ND guy he has turnaround our program. 3-9 is bad now we our 6-5 and its sad to say but that is where ND is right now. Its is very hard to look at the start of the season and say we our getting six wins. but thats the truth. Now next year 9 or 10 games. If Weis is fired ND Nation will be back at the bottom snd our school who was once a power house football school. will become soccer and hockey and basketball as are big winners.
In weis we trust!!!!
StadiumDudeNamedChip | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:23 pm | #

What do you mean ND will be "back at the bottom?"

They're already there.

Sticking with mediocrity is not the answer and compounding what was a bad decision won't help. This is Faust all over again.

Hell, I wish we could talk Jimmy Johnson out of retirement.
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:25 pm | #

DC Trojan- Good point about Harbaugh; he dated someone I knew and she said he was a tool. Scratch him. Also, thanks Leroy and Gold Wave- I had hoped Mike Stoops was Bob Stoops in waiting, but he apparently isn't. He's off. Also, shame on me for suggesting Chuck Long; I didn't realize the Aztecs were 1-10 (could have been 2-9 with a win over ND).

WaitBSP- Sarkisian? Are you kidding? Have you learned nothing from the failed hiring of Weis and Davie. NO MORE COORDINATORS WITH NO COLLEGE HEAD COACHING EXPERIENCE. NEVER AGAIN!

Beer, have you had a few too many? According weather.com, the average highs in Norman for November through February are 63, 53, 50, and 56. Certainly better than the Bend, but definitely not bikini weather. Plus, as much as I hate Cheaty McSweatervest and tOSU, he doesn't seem to have a problem getting players to come to Columbus.

Freak, c'mon, really? You're going to make the "we're an independent is the problem argument." So what, do you want to join the Big 10, win a bunch of championships in a weak conference and have a "legendary" coach like Blowhard Schembechler? No thanks- I like to think ND is special and can return to glory without that.


DB12- stop it. It's about RESULTS. Davie and Willingham were the ultimate excuse makers. Just stop it. Weis is clearly NOT the answer. Those plays did not lose us those games; failure to execute and motivate kids to play 60 minutes of in-your-face-we're-gonna-kick-your-ass football lost us those games.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:36 pm | #

Good article on Petersen.. might be a good fit in a year..

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/foo...=yhoo& type=lgns
jmc | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:40 pm | #

No Rat they didnt lose the games, but they would have won the games. If Webber had dropped the pass or Clements over threw the pass against Alabama and we would have lost, would that have made Ara a lousy coach? Execution sometimes can be the difference.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:42 pm | #

Lush, GREAT point about having a succession plan in place. As much as I want to see Weis go, waiting until after signing day would minimize damage and you're right, we cannot afford the embarrassment of a public no.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:42 pm | #

"Execution sometimes can be the difference."

*************

It always is the difference.
mespo727272 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:43 pm | #

Jade and others are absolutely correct when they advocate NO TO URBAN MEYER.

He is not what Notre Dame represents, and football is part of that package. We do not need a coach like Urban Meyer. There are much better options IF the decision is to release CW.

We need look no further than Kelley. Why can't bonuses be written into the contract for a Head Coach for taking a team into a BCS Bowl...same with the NC game? They are rewards for performance. That is the problem we face with CW.

Beer for me, beer for you: I live about 2 1/2 hours north of Norman, OK. I don't believe there are bikini clad girls running around the OU Campus 10 months of the year.

This entire discussion of possible replacements has become a joke. Where in the world are some of the names coming from that appear in these posts. Coughlin? ABSURD.
tednict | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:44 pm | #

If ND is hell bent on releasing Weis, they should consider Florida Assistant Coach Steve Addazio. He’s had 12 players taken in the NFL draft, and put a total of 21 players he has coached into the NFL—an average of almost one player for every year he has coached (23). Most importantly he's an O-Line coach and that is priority 1 if you ask me.Last season the Gator’s offensive line allowed only 13 sacks. He is also listed as a top Recruiter by Rivals.
mespo727272 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:48 pm | #

Tom O'Brien from NC State by way of Boston College anyone?
knoxville irish | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:52 pm | #

Why dont we just say any other coach but Weis you people have just about thrown every name in coaching out there.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 12:59 pm | #

OK, ANYONE other than Weis.

Urb Meyer isn't going to come to ND, I think that's a cinch. Too bad, tho, he's a good coach. In retrospect, he made the right choce in choosing FL over ND a few years ago. Can't fault him for that. Saban isn't leaving Alabama, nor is Stoops leaving Oklahoma. Why would they?

I don't know who we can get, but it has to be someone along the lines of those described above. No more unproven coordinators, pro assistants or high school geniuses.

And we need to do it after this week's debacle. Skip any talk about a bowl game against some shitty opponent. Get a new coach, let him hire a staff and recruit through February.
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 1:23 pm | #

Tom Coughlin had to make a huge adjustment to deal with the NFL players. He had enough of a problem becoming personable enough for the Giants. Do you honestly think he wants to come back to coach 18-22 year olds?

As for the whole USC-OU-UT-Bama are successful because they're warm-weather schools-- well, maybe. But Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, and Nebraska have found ways to succeed in the north. Notre Dame has done it before. The warm weather argument works to an extent, but it's not as big an issue as people make it. Quality players still enroll at northern schools. Quality players still enroll at Notre Dame. Weather isn't as big a factor as winning.
NDdallas | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 1:52 pm | #

DB12-ND has only won one game in convincing fashion this year against the worst team in Division I and without Jake Locker. SDSU and Syracuse should have been runaway wins--not stressville and nightmares.

Think how good ND would have been in the last decade if we didn't have mock college coaching. I believe the college game is 80% about head coaching.
Gold Wave | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 1:56 pm | #

i saw lou holtz on espn 1/2 time last night.
i guess the 2 questions to ask are:
1) is he the right guy?
2) does he want the job?

regarding 1), this is a tough one. obviously, his is the epitome of notre dame football and his coaching/rebuilding resume is untouchable. and he still seems very young for a near-70-year-old. i know, hoever, it rarely works when a legend comes back for a second show. still, maybe he could sign on for 3 years and he could groom a heir apparent.
regarding 2) i don't know. he bleeds blue and gold. maybe he couldn't say no to swarbrick with a 3-year type proposition. then again, does he really want to be a coach again now? even for ND.

i'm probably dreaming.
oakvilleirish | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 1:57 pm | #

DB12

I think you left out the poor execution of the Navy, SDSU, UW. BC and every other game this year and last.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:01 pm | #

We're still golden in terms of recruiting according to this article in the LA Times.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/ la...,7991933.column
OC mj | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:04 pm | #

oakvilleirish

I like Lou but I don't think the option would work too well in the 21st Century. Also, it seems like Lou's teams always do well when he first starts coaching them and then they tend to drop off into mediocrity.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:11 pm | #

brian kelly. are you frickin serious?
patriotirish | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:13 pm | #

Another one
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com...x.html? bcnn=yes
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:24 pm | #

GB:
but what if he brought along an offensive co-ordinator who shared overall philospohy but who brought along with him a more 21st century scheme? Lou's role would be more leadership, inspiration, command-in-control. putting the pieces together and setting up the staff of the future.
i'm just thinking out loud. don't know if it would work.
as for your second point: a) could he really screw up in 3 years? and b) even if he did, wouldn't you rather have that (and him) than the current regime?
oakvilleirish | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:28 pm | #

Something for everyone!

Hank Paulson fronts us money to buy out Charlie and bailout ND football. The Feds investment in ND football is arguably one where money could be made.

ND football is of national importance. How many plants turning out ND apparel would be closed down without this infusion?

Legions of ND fans are forced into counseling and rehab facilities as this crisis continues.

It's bad for the economy and bad for America!

President Bush.... President-elect Obama, Congress...plese hear our plea!
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:35 pm | #

"Please" hear our plea!
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:36 pm | #

His buyout is astronomical because he knew that Ty's lack of recruiting would screw him right about now.

I have to say that the Syracuse loss was embarrassing. They were pushed around by a 3-8 squad that had just fired their coach. It's awful. Really, since the second half in Chapel Hill, ND hasn't been good. They've been okay at times and lackluster at other times and just plain old terrible at other times. But, this is a function of bad recruiting coming home to roost. Seriously. These seniors aren't that good.

Think about it: Weis gets the job in early 2005. So, the high school seniors in 2004 had already committed. These are today's seniors. They were recruited by Willingham. The high school juniors were already being courted by big-time programs when Weis took over. So, he had a decent class, but it would have been better if Weis had been there when these kids were playing in their junior season. But, nonetheless, Weis got some good athletes (Aldredge; McNeil; Grimes).

But, his first genuine full class are this year's sophomores. They're decent, but young. They have at least two five-star recruits and six four-star recruits on the way. Again, things will get better.
teo | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:44 pm | #

Is poor execution the total fault of the coach. Even with all your points, many valid, we could still be 9-2 and I am in no way apologizing for Charlie Weis. I am saying you look at those 3 plays only, turn them in our favor, Weis is still the same coach but we are 9-2 now instead of 6-5, do you still fire him?
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:56 pm | #

Regarding Lou coming back...John Robinson's second tenure at SC was less suceessful than his first.
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 2:57 pm | #

The amount of delusion on this board has grown to epic proportions. Tomorrow USC, if the coaches want to, can hang 80 on us and we will probably not score at all. And we are still talking about keeping the gas bag at least one more year.

And to top it all off we just had someone post that this all ty's fault. LOL we have really gone completely into the toilet. The team seems to play with less ability in each game and yet we keep coming up with reasons to keep him.

As fans we deserve this team if we keep our head coach one more year. What we should do is send him packing find a HC at a non-bcs school who has managed to build a decent program and let him rebuild ours. We need someone who can coach what we have recruited and I think any good non-bcs coach probably has those skills.

I hope tomorrow USC shows some mercy and only hangs 70 on us.
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:03 pm | #

God Wave if you win every game 3-0 is that convincing fashion? What is your record after 12 games? Coaching is 80%? Then a great coach should be able to win with no players 80 percent of the time? How many coaches in history have an 80 percent winning percentage?
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:07 pm | #

As fans we deserve this team if we keep our head coach one more year. What we should do is send him packing find a HC at a non-bcs school who has managed to build a decent program and let him rebuild ours. We need someone who can coach what we have recruited and I think any good non-bcs coach probably has those skills.

I didnt know we fans hired or fired coaches.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:10 pm | #

ESPN says Kiffin has taken the job at TN. So Kiffin is out of the picture for ND, even if we wanted him. This is why we should fire gas bag tomorrow night, any good coach will be gone before the bowl games are done. If we wait until we lose whatever toilet bowl we are going to the only coach left for us will be the unpaid line coach of some high school team from Montana.
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:13 pm | #

jmc, thanks for sharing the article about Petersen. I already knew he was a good coach, but based on his being a self-described, "private person", what his son went through, and how much he seems to enjoy life in Boise, I'm convinced there is NO WAY he'll be coming to ND, so I can scratch him off my list.

OC mj, thanks for sharing- glad to see the team will have talent for the new coach

GB, great post; that article supports exactly the research I did on Texas, USC, Oklahoma, and Florida. 1) You'll know by Year 4 if the coach is THE GUY and obviously we know Weis is not THE GUY and 2) every program goes through droughts (some very long like Texas') where they think they have THE GUY, but don't have THE GUY, so the best thing to do is fire the guy quickly that's not THE GUY
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:21 pm | #

I will say it again--firing Weis with no succession plan is idiotic. Get effin real!!
lush | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:29 pm | #

You better be prepared to spend a lot more money if you fire Weis now. You go hire any other coach you will be paying a buy out there more than likely.Look into the DIAA ranks, those coaches are hungry to move up. Dont scoff at that idea, a DIAA coach with years of experience at a good program could be less expensive.
DB12 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:46 pm | #

DB12

In my post the one thing you take issue with is that fans don't fire the coach. I post that USC could hang 80 on us and you want to argue about who fires the coach? We are doomed whether we fire the gas bag or not.

And we do not need to have a plan in place before we fire him, unless the reputation of ND is so bad that no one wants the job. We are not going to get a high profile coach no matter how much we want one. The best we can do is to find a good mid-level coach who has the skills to turn this ship of doom around.
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:47 pm | #

yeah, the SI column that GB posted is a good one.
pretty balanced and it highlights the near impossible nature of weis' challenge.
but losing to syracuse? SYRACUSE?!?
oakvilleirish | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 3:52 pm | #

Let me make this very clear to everyone: CW WILL NOT BE FIRED AFTER THE SC GAME, unless Tenuta gets named head coach.

Don't fool yourseld with Bill Cowher or any other big time coach. In today's game, no one wants this job all that bad with the expectations and recent failures that came along with it (except me, I'm available at 5 years/$350,000 total)

All kidding aside, CW will be coaching this team at the Galleryfurniture.com Bowl or Tenuta will be. If a new copach does come in, it was all happen so quick, in order to get working on preserving the incoming class and transers.

Anyone want to bet me?
Rich | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 4:03 pm | #

oakvilleirish

I find it hard to fathom that If Lou came, he would get an OC with a 21st Century philosophy. If he did, there may be a clash since Lou does not like to use TEs and does not like to pass.

As for your second point, I think almost anyone is better than CW at this point. There are potential HCs right now in the football landscape. Meyer would be #1 if he is available to ND. Kelly and Leach seem like good bets also. Peterson would be good but sounds like he likes Boise. I lived in Boise and can see why he likes it there.

Jason Kelly made a salient point in his last article in the SBT. He said signs of CW's coaching ability started in 2006. The team was more experienced than the '05 team but they did not play as well as 2005 team. I think it was lack of fundamentals taught before the season. The blocking and tackling were not good.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 4:06 pm | #

Why don't our LBs have arms like this: http://www.southbendtribune.com/...268/1021/ Sports
cushing | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 4:25 pm | #

Also in the SBT, the article about Trojan LB Brian Cushing, a near-recruit for the Irish, quotes him as saying, "Just finishing strong, that's what the whole program is based on."

At some point, Nick Saban said the same thing about his focus for Alabama this past summer.

Does anyone here think that changing assistants could help? Someone said that Weis went with inexperience on both sides of the ball, but that's exactly what he tried not to do. Bill Lewis, Peter Vaas, David Cutcliffe, and it seems like one other assistant had been a head coach. What I wonder is why Lewis and Vaas left, and whether there are other up-and-comers that could help the situation. If not for the offense leaving them on the field so much, and the obvious lack of a front line, the defense is much better now than 2005 or 2006.

I think that lush is totally right about firing Weis without a plan to replace him. The only reason I accept the firing of Willingham was that the was a plan to replace him. Unfortunately, the fail-safe plan with Urban Meyer was not fail-safe.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 4:34 pm | #

Let's be clear: the reasons for this team's failures is NOT the coordinators; it is the HEAD COACH. Would the offense have been better with Cutcliffe; maybe. But it was gasbag (I REALLY like this term) who was calling the plays against 8-loss Syracuse. Has he EVER heard of a f*cking slant or down and in near the end-zone. If I see one more f*cking facde on Saturday, I'm chucking my beer at the TV. Yeah, gasbag, a slant or down and in; you know, the kind that that offensive juggernaut Syracuse ran to beat you.

ND's defense is not in as bad of shape as the problems with the OLine and play-calling. Corwin Brown is EXACTLY the kind of coach that ND needs; young, energetic, can recruit (particularly in Chicago) and GETS the college game. I had my doubts about the how it would work with him and Tenuta, but it seems to have pretty decent. The lack of sacks/pass rush is due mainly to our thin talent/depth on the DLine and youth/inexperience in the LBs.

By the way; ABSOLUTELY NOT ON TENUTA AS HC; NO MORE F*CKING COORDINATORS WITH NO HC EXPERIENCE!!! We've seen this movie twice now and it sucks.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 5:52 pm | #

Does anyone know which two ND-haters at ABC are announcing tomorrow's game? Is one of them Pukeberger?? It could be ugly all the way around.
pangorn77 | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 6:51 pm | #

I cannot argue about the play calling. One thing that bothers me is the weak attempt at the "wildcat" formation. It does not seem like that formation is a great equalizer, and it seems like one more distraction. Why not work on achieving excellence on a few plays instead of having a thick playbook?
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 7:11 pm | #

look for us punting on third downs in the first half with a 'running clock' in the second.
Peter | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 7:57 pm | #

Fight, Irish. Win or lose. Fight.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 8:20 pm | #

Good point indy. Even though this coach is cooked, I still want to see our team fight their asses and certainly wouldn't mind a couple "good" personal fouls (unlike the idiotic one that Harrison Smith took against Pitt). Hitting Dirty Sanchez in the chops, running Washington over the bench ... I'd be glad to see. I'm not saying hurt them or cheap shot them, but in the context of the play, I'd be fine seeing some nastiness (which gasbag said we'd have, but never delivered on).
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 9:12 pm | #

Will it be a quality loss if we lose by less than 25 points?
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 9:22 pm | #

Not that Tom

I think 26 is the cutoff point :>))
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 9:48 pm | #

Like 90% of the posters on this board, after the Syracuse loss I was all in for firing Weis, but after a little perspective and some deep breathing I think he should stay. My reasons as follows:

1) This team is closer to being good than it seems. If you break down the team by position, most are actually performing quite well.

Without going into each unit, it is hard to argue that the QB, RB, WR, TE, DL, LB, or DBs are all failures as units, and many of them are arguably performing quite well. All except for the offensive line.

Offensive line - Here is the position that has been a colossal failure. No ability to run block, and better sack number tend to mask the fact that Jimmy still gets hurried and hit way too much.

The poor offensive line play affects everything. Running backs don't have holes, defense spends more time on the field because we can't chew clock, passing game has to rely on quick slants or fades instead of slower developing post/square routes. It's the most important position in football, and it's killing us.

Improve the line and all of a sudden the whole team looks better. The running game opens up the passing game - Jimmy looks better. Defense spends less time on the field, play with more energy and tackle better.

2) We are one win worse than level headed people predicted our season would end up. We are 6-5 at this point, and a fairly reasonable prediction after a 3-9 season was 7-5. Are we going to fire the guy for being one loss worse than expectations? If you expected an 8-4 or 9-3 season, were you realistic with our talent level?

3) Anybody that's been on a sports team knows that student leadership is just as important as head coaching leadership. Our best players are sophomores and freshman, not seniors or juniors. That makes for an awkward leadership environment, and it shows on the field. This should change as one solid recruiting class comes in after another. Look no further than the 2005/2006 teams to show what leadership of the likes of BQ can accomplish with even a thin level of talent.

I fully expect us to lose and lose badly Saturday. And I wish that win or lose all the players would play with the heart of a Mike Anello. But I also understand that in organizations, success is not always linear but comes rapidly after a tipping point. I think the Irish under Weis are close to being a very good team, and firing him now would be a mistake.
bleedblueandgold | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 10:14 pm | #

bleedblueandgold

I understand your points and I agree the team has the talent to be a good team but not with this coach. I have seen nothing that makes me think that he has the ability to learn how to lead. What I see is a team that no longer believes the gas being explelled by their coach.

His inability to just say that he did a crappy job preparing the team and coaching them to succeed just makes it worse. The only way this team doesn't implode after they are destroyed by USC is if they get a new coach.

Blind people have seen that the offensive line has been the main problem from the first game last season but we have seen no improvement, sure blame the line coach, but also blame the head coach for not making sure the line got better.

Unfortunately for us Chuck can't scheme his way out of town, so thanks to all the "Wait until next year" people we will probably get to watch this team look bad once more. And we probably have someone telling is that next year will be the year, give the gas bag one more year.
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 10:49 pm | #

monday - new ND HC coach - mr. brian kelly :(
patriotirish | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:11 pm | #

Mike Anello Mike Anello Mike Anello Mike Anello Mike Anello
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.28.08 - 11:35 pm | #

@ Irish Rat - I was tempted to suggest that you rethink your opposition to Sarkisian (please!), but now that he's apparently discovered that running backs tend to prosper if you give them several series in a row to get their groove, maybe no.

Petersen at Boise State is very impressive - I watched the second half of their demolition of Fresno State today and that is a well-coached team that doesn't quit. I'd be delirious to see him as a successor to Pete Carroll, but I rather doubt those stars would align.
DC Trojan | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 12:23 am | #

Tennessee fires Fulmer, a coach who in the last five years had three 10-win seasons and one 9-win. Did UT have a succession plan? If hiring a 33-year old who was 5-15 with the Raiders and paying him $2 million year is your succession plan, Fulmer may want to stay close to the phone.
lush | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 1:07 am | #

Patriot Irish

Monday-CW is still the coach and ND is headed to the Sun Bowl. Sorry!
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 1:11 am | #

A key aspect of tonight's game is the level of preparation both with respect to the game plan and the psyche of the team. If the players come out with the same lack of motivation as displayed against Syracuse. it is over almost before it starts and that squarely is on CW.
esquire | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 1:14 am | #

bleedblueandgold = BIGGEST WEIS APOLOGIST ON THIS BOARD.

Mack Brown didn't need more than 4 years to be consistently good; nor did Carroll (NC in Year 3); nor did Stoops (NC in Year 2); nor did Meyer (NC in Year 2); nor did Tressel (NC in Year 2).

Are you f*cking kidding me? You're going to actually accept 7-5 or 8-4 as somehow acceptable at ND? Just because we went 3 and F*CKING 9 last year? Please, just go away with gasbag.

So what if gasbag does win 9 games next year. Does that mean he's the answer. NO. Have you seen the schedule? I could lead ND to 9 wins. Nevada, Purdue, Washington, Washington State, Navy and Stanford are a cess pool of dogsh*t. That's 6-0. Michigan (in its current state), Michigan State, BC, Pitt, and UConn are teams we used to roll back in the glory days of Lou. If we went 3-2 against this 2nd group, that's 9-2. The only legit, top program on our schedule next year is 'SC which will beat us again. So big freakin' whoop, we're 9-3. Sorry, I'll take my chances with someone other than gasbag to go 9-3 against that schedule and have a chance to be the next Lou.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 1:20 am | #

Well said Irish Rat. ND has much better recruits than Boise St. and Cinn., Texas Tech and many others. If their coaches coached ND, ND would be 11-1 this year.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 1:36 am | #

GB-

Jason Kelly did not have a good point in his article regarding the 2006 Irish. In 2005, the junior and senior classes were both highly rated, with the senior class being Lorenzo Booker away from being a unanimous top 10 class. That was good and experienced talent.

2006 brought all of the pressure on Brady Quinn's class, because the 2 under it were the bad ones (and the Sam Young class were freshman). Not a surprise that the 2005 Irish were stronger, they had more good players that were experienced.
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 2:49 am | #

Irish rat - What's with the Dirty Sanchez comments? Seems like something we would expect from ucla. Not ND alums or fans.

Look at Mark and the Trojans involvement during the final days of Garren Figueroa's life and other kids at the hospital. The Trojans and Irish players represent the best college football has to offer. These are special kids that deserve respect and not name calling.

Win Forever!
Anybody! Anytime! Anyplace!
Fight On!
WeAreSC | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 4:10 am | #

www.southbendblarney.com

I would disagree. McKnight did declined in his senior year. ND did not get Booker so it is not a rhetorical discussion on him. 2006 was the beginning of the OL yearly decline that is still ongoing.
GB | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:57 am | #

I can't believe the Weis apologists out there. The man is full of excuses when things go wrong, and thinks that he could never do anything wrong himself. Where is the offense that he was supposed to be such a genius with? The lineman are juniors now - they can't even block for a yard b/c their build resembles that of their coach. All the blame is on Weis for these failures, stop defending the "gasbag" (good term by the way I really like it) and please start concerning yourselves with what is best for the future of the Notre Dame football team.
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:55 am | #

Yes the team has gotten beat by lesser teams, but USC does it every year. 2006 UCLA, 2007 Stanford, 2008 Oregon State.

So you're saying that the Weis-led ND teams are comparable to USC from 2006-08? Brilliant!
Ricky Runnin' Waters | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 9:21 am | #

The build of the offensive linemen resembles the build of their coach. You are joking, right? If you are going to make arguments to fire Weis, for God's sake use facts and logic.
mecheng | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 9:27 am | #

Irish Rat:

You could lead ND to 9 wins. Really?
Wow! I would pay scalper's ticket prices to see the product you would produce. Where did you acquire such football acumen??
esqure | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 9:31 am | #

More bashing
http://www.fannation.com/si_blog...nts? eref=fromSI
JD | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 9:53 am | #

In case anyone was wondering or cares, on offense, ND has one starter who is a senior (two when Schwapp is in). Three starters who are juniors. The math is simple. More than half the starting offense is freshmen and sophomores (is this the norm for teams that win BCS bowls?). On the flip side, the defense has six starters who are seniors/5th year and one junior. D has played better than the O.
rockne | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 9:54 am | #

First of all, I'm tired of the folks posting links to negative posts. Wow, people don't like us....and please don't listen to folks like Irish Rat, posters who haven't shown up all season long. Irish Rat, you are the ultimate in hindsight. By the by, we didn't play UConn this year.

It cracks me up to hear the comments about bringing Lou back. Does anyone remember Pawlus running the option? Lou had his time, and when he left, it was time to go.

Charlie is on the precipice, but he will be here next year - Swarbrick alone needs that time. Talk about what the team has to do NEXT YEAR for Weis to keep his job.

There is only one thing to look for tomorrow - sixty minutes of effort.

And admit it - deep down, you do believe this team has a scintilla of a chance. Even the Jims of Redondo and Masterson believe that.....despite what they may say.

Fight Irish, fight.....
mikes1160 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 10:19 am | #

mecheng,

Lets break this down. The fundamental necessity to a successful running game is blocking. Agree?

To run block, an offensive lineman must be able to move quickly in order to put himself in a position to open up the designed running lane. Often this requires the use of lateral movement, and sometimes, God forbid, they might even have to pull and run!!! to seal an end or LB. Agree?

Now, our offensive line cannot do this effectively. They are too slow (much like Charlie or Mendoza would be) because they are not agile (you couldn't mistake Charlie or Mendoza for that either) and because they carry too much excess weight (much as Charlie and Mendoza) whether it be muscle or fat.

The comparison is valid. The comparison is fact. You must not be watching our football team. When an offensive line cannot block against a four man front that gives up over 200 yds a game, there is something wrong with the coaching. The coaching has ruined potential, b/c these guys are fat and stiff (much like Charlie and Mendoza).

kthxbai
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 10:40 am | #

mikes1160,

Completely agree on hoping for 60 min of effort tonight. While we all may disagree on the coaching, let's not lose sight of hoping for success on the football field. I'll obviously recant some of what I've said if we show up tonight.

Go IRISH
Joe B | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 10:50 am | #

mikes1160

Deep down inside I truly believe that we have no chance to win unless we fire up the team by firing the gasbag 20 minutes before the start of the game and escort him out of the coliseum at gunpoint.

Failing that the best that the Irish can do is show up the coin flip, and forfeit the game, thus denying USC a blowout win that would increase their standings in the BCS. Sure it would be an humiliation, but so will a loss by 60+ points.

Another year of watching the gasbag blame his assistants and the players? Thanks but no thanks. The gasbag by now should have a core of juniors and sophmores that can step up and imitate a decent O-line and be able to foil one out of two onside kicks when the situation demands the opposition to attempt an onside kick, especially when the gasbag put his early efforts into improving special teams.

How much more does this guy need to fail in order to prove that he is inept at every part of being a successful D-1 football HC? What does it matter how highly sought after his recruits are when they come here and play like dog dung because the head coach could not motivate himself away from the feeding trough, much less a player to play nasty.

Deflate the gasbag now, not later.
Not that Tom | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 12:57 pm | #

There is no brilliance to Weis. He is simply not a great coach. Not even a good coach. And certainly not worth 2.5 mil a year.

I want them to fire Weis now but I don't see any good coaches coming in.

Fire Latina at the end of this year. Fire Ron Powlus (just because).

And I hope everyone picks USC AND THE POINTS so they can afford Xmas presents for their family. Its the only decent thing Notre Dame football can do for people this year.

Fire Weis in 09 (just being
realistic)
DayBreakBoys | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 1:08 pm | #

I am wondering. . . suppose Weis isn't fired, Heywood goes elsewhere, but that Latina and Powlus are let go . . .

Who are the best candidates out there for offensive coordinator? Offensive line coach? Quarterbacks coach?

I am not well informed about these things, so appreciate the superior wisdom of those on this board. Thanks!
Colonel Klink | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 1:59 pm | #

HEY! HEY!
Where's the open thread????????
I promise I won't make fun of anyone, come on boyz!
Open Thread!!!!!
Notre Dame v. University of $econd Choice.
The only godd Trojan is a used trojan.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 2:02 pm | #

With apologies to fence posts all over the world.
Dumber then a fence post!!
Giants WR Burress suffers accidental gunshot wound
1 hour, 51 minutes ago
New York Giants star wide receiver Plaxico Burress accidentally shot himself in the leg Friday, according to multiple media reports.

Burress was hospitalized with gunshot injuries Friday night that were not believed to be life-threatening, FOX Sports.com reported Saturday.

Oh yeah, I think he's one of Saban's quality kids.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 2:08 pm | #

For the 0dd-tards who are clamoring for the likes of Saban the above is a public service announcement.
& I'm looking at, Meyer, Carroll, Stoops, Sweatervest, Joepa, LLoyd+ DickRod, Mack, & all the other saviors that the mis-informed may think ND should look at.
I'd rather suffer through 3-9 and throw vitriol at one-another, then put up with the likes of the afore-mentioned.
Over & Out.
PFC, Masty.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 2:20 pm | #

Shot himself with a gun...right??
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 2:21 pm | #

Growing support for Weis

www.keepcharlieweis.com

Sign the petition if you want him to stay.
duLac55 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 2:41 pm | #

Sylvester Crooms; MSU. Miss. State. First Black Coach hired in SEC history.
I like him.
Dennis Dodd says patience.
Who's Dennis Dodd?
It's obvious Sylvester Croom was forced out at Mississippi State after an embarrassing 45-0 loss to Ole Miss in the Egg Bowl.

It is being announced as a resignation but this has been the season of knee jerk reactions. I'm sure if Miss State had been more competitive on Friday, Croom would still be employed. Charlie Weis went from Gator Bowl contention to the hot seat last Friday. There is absolutely no patience out there. I don't know what Mississippi State expects but it's not going to do much better than Croom.

AD Greg Byrne is now in that revolving door of changing coaches which could run the program into the ground. That makes another minority coach getting canned (three so far). I'm shocked the Black Coaches Association hasn't ripped into Kansas State for hiring Bill Snyder without so much as interviewing a minority candidate.

Washington has shown some progress, at least, in interviewing Notre Dame's Mike Haywood.

Within hours of the biggest games of the year, this is the most attention Miss State has gotten all season. It did it by getting rid of its coach.

Dennis Dood; MSU, KS, Ubub are not national universities.
There is simply one.
It's the reason behind Coach Earl Blaik & the USMC cancelling the ND series in 1947.
How could 90% of the fans in NYC, or Philly, or Chicago, be rooting or Notre Dame over one of two, at the time, American universites.
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 2:47 pm | #

Why couldn't we get Paul Johnson? Guy can coach!
Burton | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 3:03 pm | #

Man, I've been watching college football all day today, and we just aren't even in the same league as some of these teams. Really, they just look different, like we are a high school team. Fundamentals and discipline we lack.
Some possible replacements
Frank Beamer
Chris Pederson
Brian Kelly
S man | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 3:17 pm | #

Agreed, S man. Watching GT vs UG, it's like a different sport than the saturday sitcoms on NBC.

I had a good chuckle looking at the keepcharlieweis.com petition-- those folks are either extremely naive and blind to 4 year long trends, or else it's a clever joke by a consortium of USC, MSU, BC, and UM fans.
scott | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 3:28 pm | #

LA News is reporting largest demand for Press Box in History of U$C.
More on CW from the NY News.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ sport...e_irish_up.html
jim masterson | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 3:42 pm | #

Good points Scott and S man.

Interesting to see what Brian Kelly's Cincy team did to Syracuse when they had already clinched the Big East with WVU's loss yesterday. Not saying they didn't have anything to play for, but they beat Syracuse handily, 30-10.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 4:27 pm | #

Does anyone know if the game today is streaming on the net and where I may find it?
Irish Canadian | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 4:33 pm | #

I would not be surprised if ND fires Charlie, nor would I be surprised if they kept him for one more year. If I were Devil's Advocate for keeping him, here is what I would say to Swarbrick and Fr. Jenkins.

(NB: I'm not saying I agree with all this, but I think the university has to take these arguments into consideration.)

If we fire Charlie, that means that our offense next year will have its third playcaller in as many years. It would mean that our defense would have its fourth scheme in as many years (if you consider the Tenuta schemes a different defense from Brown's 3-4 personnel in 2007). Unless the next person knows how to use a QB like Clausen or Crist, WRs like Floyd and Tate, etc., while establishing better OL play and running, we will be back at square one (esp. if we move to an option attack like GT runs). And, on the defensive side, after two classes of talent to run 3-4, we could be going to a 4-3, with the attending mismatch of talent to scheme.

It is possible that the university will want to give Charlie one more year after the overhaul he made this past year to see if these changes will take more root next year, believing that one year is too short a time horizon given the many variables he changed. It will also ensure we don't see late defections from commitments we have already received for the next recruiting class. The administration may believe that firing Charlie reboots the team again to another 3 to 4 year time horizon before we compete for BCS titles, and that we may be closer than we realize.

Remember that Weis did take two teams to BCS bowls. That has to count for something. There may be other reasons, perhaps that we aren't fully aware of, for why this team underperformed. If he could take Ty's players to BCS, there must be something there. For example, Jimmy as a junior in Weis's system. One could make an argument that Weis's system needs a 3d year player.

The final point I would make is that this is still a young team, and young teams can be unpredictably good or bad. Another year of maturity may help. The one exception I would make is that the OL performance needs to change, and perhaps THAT is where the coaching changes need to take place.

I was as pissed off as anyone after the loss to Syracuse, and I am expecting nothing but a spanking tonight, but the decision whether to keep or fire Charlie has implications beyond this or next year that we need to consider besides the bruised ego of likely 6-6 record.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 4:36 pm | #

Paul Johnson - 1st year at Georgia Tech runs up over 400 yrds rushing against Georgia. Ya think those offensive linemen at Tech (team has 75 underclassmen by the way - most in the country) are all blue chip recruits like those at ND?

Primo example of a guy that can coach and get the maximum output from the material available.

Charlie Weis - getting less from more with each passing year...
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 4:44 pm | #

Kris, you made some good points. However, I disagree with yhou about it being another 3-4 year horizon. Stoops and Carroll turned around once dominant programs that were irrelevant for the same amount of time as ND has been out of NC contention and each won a NC within their first 3 years. Tressel and Meyer got good programs that had talent to NCs in Year 2 (which I think another coach like that could do as well with the talent we have an what's coming in). Mack Brown NEVER has won less than 9 games at Texas.

My point is, 4 years is long enough; Weis is not the guy.

Anon, great point; Paul Johnson can flat out coach.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:00 pm | #

Weis may have taken 2 teams to BCS bowls, but not with his players. He was also blown out twice, by perennial BCS loser, OSU, and then by LSU.

As to the comments that ND is starting so many freshmen and sophs, after 11 games they are really sophs and juniors. And they flat stink, particularly the offensive line.

Fact remains, CW stunk up the joint in every game save Michigan and Stanford. By all rights, we SHOULD have lost to SDSU, which would make us 5-7, an "improvement" of 2 games from last year - with a dumbed down schedule. Not good enough after four years.
gwzimm | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:03 pm | #

Weekly mantra:

I wonder what will happen THIS game.
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:12 pm | #

Game should be on ESPN360 or FLO. Just check the scores screen at ESPN and it should have a link to the 360 coverage...
kryptonite163 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:32 pm | #

gw,

By your "by all rights logic," one could say we should have beaten Pitt and Syracuse, making us 8-3 going into this game. Hypotheticals aren't helpful, especially when reality is brutal enough.

No doubt the performance hasn't met expectations; no doubt we aren't getting as much from our players as their Rivals/Scout ratings would suggest, and that is ultimately the HC's responsibility.

But, if we change coaches, it will be another 3 years before we are contending, at the earliest, if we take the Stoops/Carroll blueprint as an indicator (Good point, Irish Rat). Does anyone think ND Nation will be that patient?

Bottom line for me is that I see very valid reasons both for dismissing Weis and for keeping him on for one more year.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:41 pm | #

From today's Los Angeles Times:

"Linebacker Chris Galippo, a redshirt freshman, said he was among a group of recruits who visited Notre Dame when he was a junior at Anaheim Servite High, the same school that produced former Fighting Irish quarterback Steve Beuerlein.

Quarterback Jimmy Clausen, who eventually signed with the Irish, and USC tailback Marc Tyler also were on the trip.

Galippo said it was memorable because Notre Dame Coach Charlie Weis never acknowledged him.

"I went 3,000 miles cross-country and couldn't even get a handshake," Galippo said.

Galippo said he had no hard feelings."
Pat Hobby | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:45 pm | #

It's amazing the anti-Weis comments that are coming out of the woodwork this season. Have these things been said for four years, or is this a matter of piling on?
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:48 pm | #

i know nothing of contracts and little about football.

my thoughts are this:

weis is retained for one more year on the grounds that he

1. removes a few underperforming coaches (i don't know who they are, though i would recommend that corwin and tenuta are kept just to keep some consistency in the defense for the first time in 3 years).

2. hires a coach whose primary responsibility is to give team speeches and motivate players on the sidelines. remember how pumped the team was this year during the michigan game when holtz was on the sidelines? weis needs to stop telling EVERYONE what he is doing to motivate his team. [hell, weis shouldn't be anywhere near the team when they are being motivated. he should be like joe paterno, hanging out in the press box while other coaches do all the work.]

3. set an expectation for where the team must be by the 6th game (record, strength of wins, statistics, recruiting). if weis has not met those goals by midyear, it is understood that notre dame will start looking for a possible new coach.

again, i don't know if you can do that, but i think that it wouldn't hurt for next year.
me | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:52 pm | #

Louie,

For a lot of us, Charlie jumped the shark last week.

The Notre Dame fanbase is rabid and at times manic depressive.

But, whether Charlie stays or goes, I will love and support Notre Dame.
Kris | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 6:00 pm | #

me,

Your second point is the probably the SINGLE BIGGEST REASON Weis should be fired; the fact he has no clue how to tap into the psyche of 18-22 year old males. How many times has he said something to the effect that emotion doesn't last? Gasbag, this isn't the NFL. How could you possibly have your headcoach be that hands off. Paterno can do it because a) he's got a bad hip and knee and has problems being on the sideline and b) he's a freakin' living legend.

I'm watching Florida-FSU right now; will we EVER look again like the Gators look?

The SEC Championship game is going to be AWESOME next week. I love ND, but I also really enjoy watching SEC football.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 6:09 pm | #

i agree with you, irish rat. i'm just worried that if we start searching right now, we will get a poor coaching candidate. if we give weis year five, the backlash from the media will be less, we can push for a strong candidate who knows he will not be fired prematurely, we will protect this year's recruiting class, we can take time to really look for a strong coaching candidate.

either that, or weis starts winning and the team is successful.

i don't really care if weis is fired or retained; i just want notre dame to win and to win sooner rather than later.
me | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 6:17 pm | #

Thanks Kyrptonite163...unfortunately living in Canada and we don't get ESPN 360. What is FLO?
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 6:18 pm | #

Me-

Like what you said. A coaching change isn't a decision that should be made hastily. A coach needs to believe that he can actually win at ND, and will be supported. 'Course every coaching job has a short life span if there are struggles these days.

I am now just a beaten down Irish fan. I think spicy garlic wings from bw's is the only thing that will help me tonight. Pretty girls at the bar help too.

It should be an interesting Sunday and Monday for all of us though.
www.southbendblarney.com | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 6:28 pm | #

This is not a team in chaos. Recruiting is excellent and the defense has over-performed in my opinion, esp. up front. As everyone knows, the OL play sucks and until it gets better, it's hard to see how our offense significantly improves. But we remain thin and young on the offensive line, and a year will make a difference. Especially when Charles brings in someone with solid college coaching experience on the offensive side to pull his bacon out of his a**, or however that expression goes.

Charlie is a competitor and he has shown a willingness to admit when he is in over his head. We may end up with 150 coaches, but the gaps will be filled. At the end of the day, if he keeps bringing in the players, it's just a matter of time. Worst case, with somebody else as HC.
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 6:41 pm | #

Regardless of who should be coaching, and I have been a critic..I would think that ND players are self motivated anyway

Having the ability to play at a top knotch program is proof enough. Playing at ND even more so.

We will see if that is the case.

It's not all Charlie folks!
Dana Payne | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 6:48 pm | #

They need to do what Al Sims did with the 1991 Fort Wayne Komets. .500 team, no spark, and Al (former Bruin who played with Bobby Orr) decided to work on reducing penalties and showing nothing but highlights in the film room. Total positive emphasis. Effed up the power play? Let's go watch some of the great teams run it. The next year the Komets swept every playoff series - not a single loss - including beating the San Diego Gulls which Sports Illustrated called the best minor league team ever assembled in any sport.

I will no longer criticize the offensive line. I just hope someone shows them film of awesome, dominating OL play until one day they wake up and decide, hey, WTF, this guy across from me? Maybe I'll ruthlessly dominate him. You only live once!
indy | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 7:02 pm | #

Kris, thank you for the reply. I wasn't commenting on the comments here so much as the media reports about ways that Weis has snubbed this reporter or that recruit or some other coach. There were always rumors of negative interactions, but in the last month I've read half a dozen articles with clearly described negative-Charlie incidents.

I fully expect negative thoughts on blogs and blog comments. I can't imagine any Irish fan is happy with the second half of this season apart from the improved kicking by Brandon Walker. While I totally agree with the sentiment that great coaches reveal themselves within 3 or 4 years on the job, I'm not convinced that another change is what ND needs right now. For those who want heads to roll, rest assured that I have no say in the matter. Ha, ha.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 7:14 pm | #

ESPN cut to a scene of the USC and ND teams giving each other lip in the end zone, REAL close to each others' faces.

So we can be motivated.
NDdallas | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 7:44 pm | #

It's amazing the anti-Weis comments that are coming out of the woodwork this season. Have these things been said for four years, or is this a matter of piling on?
Louie | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 5:48 pm | #


no, it's been said for 4 years. just not by ND fanboys.
DanK | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 7:50 pm | #

I feel like I'm getting ready to go to the dentist. Or a funeral.

I had dinner plans and was planning on watching on DVR later, but those fell through. Now I'm forced (obligated?) to watch.

Before I start hearing the "you're not a fan comments" I'm kidding. Sort of.

Ugh. I can't remember looking forward less to an ND game.
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 7:53 pm | #

On second thought, GO IRISH! SHOW SOME F*CKING FIGHT! I HATE USC!!!
Irish Rat | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 7:53 pm | #

Does anyone know a streaming site to catch the game?
PlanetEire | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:00 pm | #

Go Irish I remember........
ND dad 05 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:00 pm | #

What are you fightin for?...tonight
ND dad 05 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:01 pm | #

The Irish will cover tonight
ND dad 05 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:02 pm | #

My son is 15-5 at home games the last 3 years. Junior year he was in Africa
Go Irish
ND dad 05 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:03 pm | #

pregame brawl...could be a good or a bad thing...
andrew | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:05 pm | #

My last sunset here in Miami,
before the last football game as a dad
of a Notre Dame student.
Go Irish
ND dad 05 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:06 pm | #

Let's see, irishDad - at 32 1/2 points - an all-time low for our once-proud program - covering the spread cannot, let's say, be perceived as a positive.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:06 pm | #

Should be able to catch stream here.


http://www.channelsurfing.net/wa...? w=soilxtreme03
dgislason | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:07 pm | #

lets f---ing go. I hate USC. Lets show some gd fight and take it to them.
andrew | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:07 pm | #

Go Irish, regardless....what tho the odds....
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:08 pm | #

wow. so thats what a touchback looks like.
andrew | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:08 pm | #

damn! and I forgot to predict the 6 INTs.
JimK | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 8:11 pm | #

Playing better than Vegas says, is some kind of Victory.
I'm really trying hard here.
But no first downs in the half,
Annello out
Down 24-0
and Weis saying our D maybe be
held out to dry
Its kind of hard

Go Irish
ND dad 05 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 9:33 pm | #

I like JimKs attitude
ND dad 05 | Email | Homepage | 11.29.08 - 9:35 pm | #

If ND wants to fire him fine. But don't fire him because it's on ESPN and SI and the Alumni is causing havoc. You can't let the fans run the show, no succesful team has ever done that.
Fernando Araiza | Email | Homepage | 12.01.08 - 2:00 am | #