BGS...August 9, 2004: In sizing everything up, I'd say Charlie's assembled a top-notch group, and what really strikes me is the breadth and diversity of their collective experience... I mean, we've got...unsung yeoman technicians (Latina, Oliver)


I gueses being a yeoman just doesn't make it anymore.
Jim '72 | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 3:54 pm | #

Too bad Ed Orgeron is no longer available (not that he would have accepted being merely the DL coach).
The Song of Hiawatha Francisco | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 4:07 pm | #

We knew changes were inevitable on defense. Yeoman or no jappy had to go.

From the school of Walsh one of the major keys to winning is generating a 4th quarter pash rush. Anyone care to reflect on our 4th quarter pash rush this year; specifically against powerhouses like SDSU, Navy and Syracuse?

Would love to see some numbers there.
ColoradoIrish | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 4:26 pm | #

I was under the (apparently misguided) perception that Jappy was one of the better position coaches we had. He's gotten some tremendous production out of his players in the past, especially undersized/skilled players like Derek Landri and Pat Kuntz. Not to mention Trevor Laws and Victor Abiamiri. Were they developed by someone else and I'm giving Jappy credit for their production? Or are they just self-motivated freaks of nature like Brady Quinn was?

I don't think you can really blame Jappy for our shortfalls the past two years. Yes I would have liked to see more production by the defensive line, especially in clogging up lanes or opening up blitz holes for the line backers. But we've had ZERO depth at that position during Charlie's entire tenure, and are just now starting to get some recruits with last year's class.

Contrast that to Latina's group of young yet talented and deep offensive linemen. To say that they have underperformed would be a vast understatement. They did make strides in pass-pro this year, but that should be expected with another year of experience not just of their own but with Jimmy learning when to throw the ball away.

Here's hoping we can bring in some position coaches to really light a bonfire on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Jappy, I wish you all the best in your future stops.
Erik '04 | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 4:41 pm | #

http://web1.ncaa.org/football/ex...ar=2008& org=513

When you look at that, two categories jump out - Rushing Offense & Tackles for Loss. The next worst is turnover margin, which a run game should also improve. When you look at L's I see a lot more offensive failures than defensive ones. Either the offense didn't show up the entire game, or broke down as soon as they tried to eat the clock on a comfortable lead.

For all we know those guys are on the chopping block as well, so I don't want to raise a stink yet. Can someone not too blinded by our pathetic offense to critically watch the dline comment on this decision?
obediah | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 5:08 pm | #

He must have someone lined-up who he perceives as a genuine upgrade at this position.
Mike from Torrance | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 5:28 pm | #

HIRE JAGS!
DEKOM | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 5:49 pm | #

i don't think blaming Jappy is a good approach, either, but there were some really bad defensive lapses against mediocre teams. You can't fire the players.

To your point, Erik 04, Latina has been pretty bad, too. The offensive line was marginal on good days -- and only on pass-blocking. They cannot run-block. If this doesn't change, nine-and-three isn't achievable, nevermind a BCS bowl.
teo | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 5:54 pm | #

Who said he was fired. According to the article from SBT, he resigned. Although I agree with the posters above. I have thought the D-line has held up pretty well seeing as they have had the worst depth issues.
Michael | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 5:56 pm | #

My guess is that he wasn't on the same page as Brown/Tenuta...
jezza | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 5:58 pm | #

Chris Zorich. I think he would become a tremendous DL coach in a very short amount of time. Attention Latina and Mendoza. Tick tock tick tock tick tock.
Voice in the Wilderness | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 6:41 pm | #

i notice that some of you seem apologetic and point out that he's had a good run even with terrible depth on the line. while that is true, the fact that we continue to have terrible depth on the DL comes down on him. i know coaches recruit all kinds of positions, but he should be taking care to ensure the depth chart is full at his spot. it's his responsibility, and charlie's but that's a completely different matter.
alanon | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 7:30 pm | #

If Weis doesn’t fire everyone associated with the offensive line, he’s an idiot.

2009 is show time for Charlie.

Sorry ND sports fans, I fell off the bandwagon after the Orange guys dumped do-do in my stadium.
Subway Alumni | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 8:22 pm | #

I guess it seems we're all wondering the same thing: Jappy is fired; okay, but Oliver BEFORE Latina?

Did anyone look at this season as a whole and think, man we are just not getting enough out of our D-line? A head scratcher firing a guy who's produced three major NFL players.

Latina has to go. Seriously, has he pretended to be sick and is screening his calls? Send Cosmo Kramer over to break up with him if necessary. "Believe it or not John isn't at home. Please leave a message at the beep. I must be out or I'd pick up the phone. Where could I be? Believe it or not I'm not home."
Mark | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 10:12 pm | #

By far, the worst part of ND over the last 4 years has been ND's defense.

ND's defense has consistently been poor in the Weis era. Weis has at least assembled a couple of good offensive seasons. But the defense NEEDS to improve if ND wants to play college football at the highest level. (I've got a spreadsheet looking at the numbers, its pretty bad (and obvious)).

I'm not sure I agree Oliver has to go. ND gave up 58 sacks in 2007 and something like 24 in 2008, that's pretty damn good improvement.

Also, Weis needs to get an OC before he can find a replacement for Latina.

The same is not true with the defense.
atepesm | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 11:15 pm | #

Well I hope Urban feels he's up for a new challenge now that he won a 2nd national title and a Heisman. Maybe a new Catholic challenge.
NDdallas | Email | Homepage | 01.08.09 - 11:48 pm | #

Ah, Jeeze, Voice. Every time I think you've turned the corner you do an about face.
Domerplayer | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 12:07 am | #

I thought I had read somewhere that Haywood was thinking of taking Oliver with him to Miami. Did that fall through? It would have been a very nice ending considering most have him fired already.
Tommy O | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 2:58 am | #

For all of you "fire Latina" guys, the Rock has done an excellent analysis over at NDnation...

http://www.ndnation.com/articles...s-up- front.html

We can't run the ball. That's a huge problem that needs to be solved immediately. And Charlie ain't much of a fan of a deep running game (at least as far as we've seen).
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 8:41 am | #

D-Line recruiting is over since Tyler Stockton enrolled early. We still have to get signings from our O-Line recruits...any chance that is why Latina being canned has not been announced yet?

That the likeliest reason but who knows.
jason | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 8:47 am | #

Ed, thanks for the link to the Rock Report. If you check the stats on ESPN for the Patriots, in 2003 the team rushing average was 3.4 yards/carry. That matches what the Irish generated this season. It just so happens that New England went 17-2 with a Super Bowl win that season.

Perhaps it is a matter of Saturdays versus Sundays, and that running means more in the college game? In any case, thanks for the interesting read.

Oliver's departure is surprising, but at the same time the D-line certainly has room to improve. Best of luck to him.
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 9:06 am | #

Zorich would be a great addition for the coaching of the D line.
Ted | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 9:34 am | #

I'm a Chris Zorich fan as much as anyone, but I don't see how he would be a great addition to the d-line.....however, given his recent comment, I'd hire Tom Thayer in a heartbeat for the 0-line.
mikes1160 | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 9:45 am | #

No disrespect intended but does Zorich or Thayer for that matter have any coaching experience? I know they were both great players at ND however I'm not sure I want them to be getting OTJ training with the Irish. Haven't we had enough of that with Powlus?
Knoxville Irish | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 9:50 am | #

Isn't Thayer the guy that wasn't just criticizing our players but the whole idea of zone blocking? The same zone blocking that has been shown to be a big success when done correctly?

That always seemed like a very stupid comment. Obviously the o-line has issues, but it seemed the same to me as pointing at Auburn this year and saying "The spread doesn't work."
Majnun | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 10:32 am | #

I didn't "realize" Jappy was the problem either, but I agree with Jason on the timing. He also could have a replacement in mind for DL (enter Zorich) that he can't have yet for OL while he is still trying to find an OC.

I can't comment on whether zone or run blocking is better at the college level, but several have noted the OL's terrible footwork throughout the season. Zone blocking can be done right, so if that's what Weis is sticking with, get us someone who will teach our OL the fundamentals and get it right.
JM | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 11:15 am | #

Louie,

It's not so much the difference between Saturdays and Sundays as it is about personnel. The Pats could afford a less than dominant running game because they had a tremendous offensive line, excellent receivers and a very talented (some might argue Hall of Fame) quarterback. BTW, 3.4 yds. per carry gets you a first down after 3 carries...especially when your offense can execute properly like that Pats could that year.

We have flashes of brilliance, but we don't have the personnel that can purely execute a sophisticated passing offense (there are very few teams in College Football that can). We need a decent running game to take some pressure off of Clausen and give him the matchups that he can clearly exploit. I'm not looking for an old school ND running attack (frankly I don't think we can achieve that in our wildest dreams). I'm just looking for something to keep the defense honest.
Ed Smithe | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 11:34 am | #

What last night showed again is that defence trumps offence. I thought Bradford looked very good, and didn't get rattled, but was not able to overcome the better defence.
The good news is that I think we are assembling a Fla style defence, and next year they need to be unleashed more often.
The only negative difference I see when comparing Clausen to Bradford and McCoy is that they make their decisions faster. If Jimy speeds up one notch a lot of good things will happen.
Does anyone else think that it is not a coincidence that the no huddle works so well for Texas and Okla and Utah? We have the right personnel for it as well.
canuck 75 | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 12:02 pm | #

FWIW, the running attack in the bowl game was enough to keep the Hawaii defense honest. Unfortunately, there's no data showing the Irish can keep honest a USC or even a BC defense. Decent protection and talented targets like Floyd and Tate might be enough, though.

Canuck is absolutely correct about defense winning games. Or "defence", if you are typing from America's Attic. :-)

The numbers from the Patriots as well as the first two Weis years make me think that ND's rushing attack might be acceptable, if and only if the passing game and defense become excellent.

All in all, I'd rather see an old school ND running attack...
Louie | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 2:00 pm | #

A rushing attack that can manage to pick up a few 3rd and 2's or 4th and inches would go a long way in keeping the defense honest the rest of the time.
JM | Email | Homepage | 01.09.09 - 2:16 pm | #

The thing I noticed most about the Fla win was the offense, not the defense. I hadn't watched much Gator ball this year so I expected something a bit more high flying which I don't really like in college FB (sorry, grew up in Big1? country). But I loved watching them. (As much as it pains me to say it.) Big, powerful offensive line that moved people, option attack that keeps the run defense honest, and enough time to throw the ball deep off of play action. I felt like I was watching Irish ball from 1990.

Just sayin'.
IndyEsq | Email | Homepage | 01.10.09 - 1:02 am | #

Indy,
Being that Urban worked with lou back in the day (when a two loss season was grounds for firing), i'd say we were watching I=ball from the 90's.
Gabby | Email | Homepage | 01.10.09 - 1:39 am | #

Chris Zorich is a nice thought....but he's never coached (so would be mediocre - at best - for 3-4 years till he got fully up to speed). They guy we need to hire is Rock Roggeman off of Skip Holtz' East Carolina staff. Rock has a PASSION for ND football and more fire in the belly than anybody on our current staff (Rock played backer and nose for ND in the early 80's). When he was hired by Skip at ECU a few years ago the article announcing his hire read "Noted Run Stopper Added to ECU Staff" (in the late 90's, Rock was the d-coordinator and d-line coach at Alabama A&M where they set an all-division NCAA record of only giving up 39 rushing yards per game).
Pull up some clips from East Carolina beating Virginia Tech and West Virginia to start the season and look at they way their defense got AFTER it. Rock comes from a football family (his dad was a legendary linebacker coach at USC where he was Junior Seau's coach). Rock was born in South Bend (his real name is Tom....but he was nicknamed Rock as a child after Knute Rockne)....this guy BLEEDS blue and gold. He's the perfect hire (only thing he does not have on his resume is a connection to Parcells/Belichek sphere of influence....oh well).
conway | Email | Homepage | 01.15.09 - 11:10 am | #